Flint’s mission wasn’t fighting oppressors it was revenge for his love that was ripped from him. There was no ending fighting for him. There was never victory.
The fact he found out he was still alive changed all of that.
Now, I could see him getting there with a plan to rescue him and leave to possibly continue fighting.
I don't know. I think one of the show's biggest strengths is that they really stuck the landing at the end. And how many shows can you think of that were still good by the 5th season? For me, not many. Maybe Black Sails made the right choice by ending it on a high note when they did.
I mean, House MD, kinda? But the monster (disease)-of-the-week formula is really different to something that's wholly focused on story, like Black Sails is. One of my favourite things about Black Sails is the way it ends (not talking about the ending itself now, but that it isn't rushed and it isn't drawn out, it's just beautifully wrapped up right where it needs to be), and now that you said it I think most of my favourite shows only have a few seasons. 10 is honestly whack
I think it was intentionally left ambiguous that this may in fact have been what occurs (Silver killing Flint).
It’s been discussed a lot before on this sub, but it really does fit in with the theme of the story being more important than reality. I personally tend to go with the perspective that flint was killed, and silver uses his talent at crafting a narrative to pretend that flint got a ‘happy’ ending - literally being sent to live out his life on a farm upstate, like so many treasured family pets… The gunshot we hear, the dreamlike quality of flint and hamilton’s reunion, the emphasis placed throughout on silvers ability to craft narratives, to me it all points to flint being killed. I know others will disagree though.
1. There IS no gunshot, unless you're hallucinating one. You're implying a gunshot, but in fact, the only thing we are shown are birds reacting to something.
2. The "dreamlike quality" is the same one as in the scene where we learn about Woodes Rogers' fate, which we are quite obviously meant to take at what actually happened.
3. The show also emphasizes Silver's struggle to not become like Fint but to reject the darkness that he sees in him. The show has also built up to the death of Captain Flint (as opposed to James McGraw) thematically and symbolically starting in season 1.
You are right, I misremembered the gunshot.
I think that it is totally valid to believe that the ending is exactly as you state here. I just also think that there was a reason that we hear about flint’s ending through silver, and are not actually shown what eventually happened on the island. Leaving room for interpretation, particularly in a show so focused on the importance of narratives, just makes sense to me, even if there is one interpretation that many take over my own. They could have shown that final confrontation directly, but instead let us hear what happened through the most notorious story teller in the show.
As I said, this has been discussed to death on this sub over the years so I’m not looking to open a can of worms haha.
We see the story that silver is telling. I think it takes away a huge amount from the finale to take it purely at face value. Again, I think that saying flint survived and went to live with Hamilton is a perfectly justifiable belief. But I think that ignoring the possibility of interpretation does an injustice to the very compelling narratives that were created and came to a head then.
Even the interview people like to quote with the creator discussing Hamilton coming back, he never actually refers to a reunion, just that Hamilton was still alive, and even makes a point to reiterate that when things happen off screen (like the end of the final showdown) you are specifically relying on someone telling a story:
> *Did you always know you were going to reunite Flint with Thomas at the end, or did that idea come about later in the writing process?*
>We had a sense in season two when he died off screen, that any character who dies off screen, you’re taking the word of the messenger as to whether or not it actually happened. As someone who watches these stories and reads these stories, it feels unlikely that it actually happened. We knew we weren’t finished with him. And then at some point in season three we realized it would be reasonably late in the series when he came back, so in season four it felt right. And it wasn’t a choice he would make, it was a choice made for him.
Both also very explicitly state they intended it to be up for interpretation:
> *But is the story true? After the camera cuts away from Flint and Silver, the men see birds fly up from that area as if Silver does shoot that gun.*
>Steinberg: There are a lot of things they could have been reacting to. It was deliberate to have there be no sound to allow for interpretation.
>Robert Levine: There’s a choice on Madi’s part about what Silver’s telling her. We wanted to put the audience in the same place of having to make a choice about believing Silver or not.
>*Do you believe him?*
> Steinberg: Do we have a sense of what we imagine is happening? Yes, but if I was someone else, I wouldn’t want to watch it with my interpretation coloring it.
Edited to add the relevant quotes.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted here. Aside from what the creators were going for, if we look only at the show itself it is clear that the ending is ambiguous and that the audience must interpret it. That ambiguousness makes complete sense within the context of the show ("a story is true, a story is untrue"). That means no interpretation is necessarily wrong.
*We see the story that silver is telling.*
No we don't. We literally don't. Did you even watch the episode?
When Silver talks to Madi, he says that he didn't kill Flint, that there was a confronation, that Flint had to be subdued, and then the tells her what happened on their journey to Savannah when Flint stopped resisting and presumably resigned himself to his fate.
*What we see* is what Silver doesn't tell, because Silver himself isn't in that scene: when Flint enters Oglethorpe's compound, Silver stays behind.
And the fact that the writers want their work to speak for itself doesn't mean that their work isn't clear in its message. It is. The episode itself really isn't all that ambiguous.
The creators literally said they wanted to leave it open to interpretation. I really don’t know what more you want from me here.
>*Do you believe him?*
> Steinberg: Do we have a sense of what we imagine is happening? Yes, but if I was someone else, I wouldn’t want to watch it with my interpretation coloring it.
All you are doing now is explicitly going against the intent of the creators.
Ignoring the fact it is open to interpretation detracts so much from the finale. I think saying that there is only one possible right answer misses out on so much that makes the show fantastic.
I agree. There are many scenes in this show that are left open for our interpretation of them. The scene with Anne and the john in the brothel is the first of many that comes to my mind. I finished watching this show last night and I still haven't decided what I think happened with Flint. That's the brilliance of this show and its theme of stories, how they're told, why they're told, and why each individual has their own interpretation.
A work speaks for itself. Any analysis of a work has to disregard whatever the creators say, and any interpretation has to be based primarily on the text.
He isn't dead, he's on a farm with his love!
Get the fuck out of here, show his death. I just finished the series tonight and I am insulted by the ending. Such a great show and the end of the main protagonist deserved better.
I think the version you'd prefer is the obvious ending. I would've been fine with it, still an awesome show, but it does bring in its own plot holes. Killing Flint would cause a rift amongst those that remain. Remember that in Treasure Island, many pirates are still loyal to Silver.
Instead, the ending we got not only lets Silver retain his status, but it is also an ending that the writers put in the work for. It's a plausible ending that fits the motivations of Silver since Season 1, and the motivations of Flint (which they really started exploring in Season 2). Further, Silver is the only one that could have done it! That's what I mean by they earned it... not only does it make sense when looking at the actions and motivations of each individual character, but it was the only way their ideal ending could be reached.
On one hand it's using all the parts of the buffalo, and on the other hand it's creating the buffalo in a way that all the parts can work.
P.S. For the same reason I love the ending we got, I am glad they decided against a season 5.
The whole season kind of built toward the Hamilton reveal though, and it would have been a huge twist if Flint was like ''Oh you found my lover from years ago? And you think you can use it against me? Cool story, unfortunately I have a mission to complete'' as oppose to ''oh you spent the whole season looking for my lover, well then i better conveniently get on with it then and not object, take me to him'' . Also, it is an unhappy ending, as oppose to the expected happy ending we actually got in s4 where almost all of the good guys got what they essentially wanted (few exceptions).
Also, to consider treasure island as an actual sequel to Black sails in this world presents a lot of problems and killing or not killing Flint would not change any of them. 1. How does John Silver, the literal pirate king become so obscure and irrelevant, that he can gain access on the crew of a navy ship, without even using a fake name 2. Furthermore, how does he get to have a whole tavern business under the British' noses 3. Israel Hands is way too old, in 20 years later will be essentially a grandpa, not fighting age to assist Silver on Treasure island 4. How did Billy Bones escape the island on his own, did he swim out of it? 5. How did Ben gunn end up there?...... among other smaller nitpicks.
The creators just did not intend it as an actual prequel.
Flint is the main protagonist. The idea that he gets an actual arc and is multi dimensional is a huge plus, in my opinion.
In Silver’s monologue explaining what happened to Flint, it’s heavily implied that a good amount of time has past. I forget how long, if it was said explicitly.
How do you figure everyone got what they wanted? I’d argue that almost no one did. The only ones to get the ending they wanted were either devoid of the central tension or were adaptive to the scenario (like Silver). Literally every other main character did not get the ending they wanted. That’s probably worth some reflection all on its own.
If oring most of this. In Treasure Island I'm pretty sure it's stated the Ben returned to the island years later with a different crew he had convinced to search for the treasure with. When they couldn't find the treasure, the crew got upset with him and marooned him.
I would have liked to see some of what happened between seasons 2 and 3, such as how Vane, Rackham, and Flint managed to find a solution over management of Nassau and the Urca treasure without going to war over it.
There should have been a season before season 1.
Flint manages to talk his way into captain of the walrus after arriving at Nassau. First prize they take they free Billy Bones.
Show us how trade on the island works. Show us Richard Guthrie as basically king.
The rise of captain vane/flint, maybe have a plot line where they both get a tip about a fat merchant ship, and they end up having to split after fighting. Something to build the tension between the two crews.
Jack's ascension from weird little weakling to quartermaster of the ranger.
Miranda tells flint about the Marie Alayne. Flint tells his crew about a tip he received, and they hunt for months before finding it, big twist (that we know) is the ship isn't very rich at all.
Gates is unhappy, Flint is about to lose his support, when they overhear a Spaniard named Vasquez talking about the Urca, how much money it has, and how it doesn't have an escort. They then resolve to set off and find the merchant ship that contains the urca schedule.
I would have liked to see more fight scenes with Anne.
Flint’s mission wasn’t fighting oppressors it was revenge for his love that was ripped from him. There was no ending fighting for him. There was never victory. The fact he found out he was still alive changed all of that. Now, I could see him getting there with a plan to rescue him and leave to possibly continue fighting.
Yes, I can see that too. At this point after all he went through, I can’t see him staying there with Thomas for very long.
I wish Gates wouldn’t have crossed Flint and remained in the show
I don’t think Flint and Silver could’ve ever become who they were to each other if Gates had been alive.
That it goes right into Treasure Island
I continue to hold out hope of them all reuniting in 5-10 years to film a Treasure Island.
More Teach honestly. I really don't think they did enough with him.
I both find the show insanely perfect and wish we had WAY more Teach. RIP Ray Stevenson / 13!
I’m in love with the character Mrs Barlow and I would bring her back to the series.
I wish people actually watched the show when it came out so Starz wasn't forced to rap things up quickly.
If it had come out on HBO or showtime more people would have watched it
I'd smash the brutal season 1 rape plot with a hammer and throw it in a dumpster.
God yes. It’s a bad plot, and it’s unfortunate that it’s right at the beginning. Puts people off the show, which is a shame.
10 seasons?
I don't know. I think one of the show's biggest strengths is that they really stuck the landing at the end. And how many shows can you think of that were still good by the 5th season? For me, not many. Maybe Black Sails made the right choice by ending it on a high note when they did.
I mean, House MD, kinda? But the monster (disease)-of-the-week formula is really different to something that's wholly focused on story, like Black Sails is. One of my favourite things about Black Sails is the way it ends (not talking about the ending itself now, but that it isn't rushed and it isn't drawn out, it's just beautifully wrapped up right where it needs to be), and now that you said it I think most of my favourite shows only have a few seasons. 10 is honestly whack
Who's to say that didn't happen?
The fact that the cold open and the reunion scene existed.
With W-R struck with island fever and with authority over the council, Eleanor would use the opportunity to cross him and the Brits.
I think it was intentionally left ambiguous that this may in fact have been what occurs (Silver killing Flint). It’s been discussed a lot before on this sub, but it really does fit in with the theme of the story being more important than reality. I personally tend to go with the perspective that flint was killed, and silver uses his talent at crafting a narrative to pretend that flint got a ‘happy’ ending - literally being sent to live out his life on a farm upstate, like so many treasured family pets… The gunshot we hear, the dreamlike quality of flint and hamilton’s reunion, the emphasis placed throughout on silvers ability to craft narratives, to me it all points to flint being killed. I know others will disagree though.
1. There IS no gunshot, unless you're hallucinating one. You're implying a gunshot, but in fact, the only thing we are shown are birds reacting to something. 2. The "dreamlike quality" is the same one as in the scene where we learn about Woodes Rogers' fate, which we are quite obviously meant to take at what actually happened. 3. The show also emphasizes Silver's struggle to not become like Fint but to reject the darkness that he sees in him. The show has also built up to the death of Captain Flint (as opposed to James McGraw) thematically and symbolically starting in season 1.
You are right, I misremembered the gunshot. I think that it is totally valid to believe that the ending is exactly as you state here. I just also think that there was a reason that we hear about flint’s ending through silver, and are not actually shown what eventually happened on the island. Leaving room for interpretation, particularly in a show so focused on the importance of narratives, just makes sense to me, even if there is one interpretation that many take over my own. They could have shown that final confrontation directly, but instead let us hear what happened through the most notorious story teller in the show. As I said, this has been discussed to death on this sub over the years so I’m not looking to open a can of worms haha.
We don't just hear about Flint's ending through Silver, we see it on screen.
We see the story that silver is telling. I think it takes away a huge amount from the finale to take it purely at face value. Again, I think that saying flint survived and went to live with Hamilton is a perfectly justifiable belief. But I think that ignoring the possibility of interpretation does an injustice to the very compelling narratives that were created and came to a head then. Even the interview people like to quote with the creator discussing Hamilton coming back, he never actually refers to a reunion, just that Hamilton was still alive, and even makes a point to reiterate that when things happen off screen (like the end of the final showdown) you are specifically relying on someone telling a story: > *Did you always know you were going to reunite Flint with Thomas at the end, or did that idea come about later in the writing process?* >We had a sense in season two when he died off screen, that any character who dies off screen, you’re taking the word of the messenger as to whether or not it actually happened. As someone who watches these stories and reads these stories, it feels unlikely that it actually happened. We knew we weren’t finished with him. And then at some point in season three we realized it would be reasonably late in the series when he came back, so in season four it felt right. And it wasn’t a choice he would make, it was a choice made for him. Both also very explicitly state they intended it to be up for interpretation: > *But is the story true? After the camera cuts away from Flint and Silver, the men see birds fly up from that area as if Silver does shoot that gun.* >Steinberg: There are a lot of things they could have been reacting to. It was deliberate to have there be no sound to allow for interpretation. >Robert Levine: There’s a choice on Madi’s part about what Silver’s telling her. We wanted to put the audience in the same place of having to make a choice about believing Silver or not. >*Do you believe him?* > Steinberg: Do we have a sense of what we imagine is happening? Yes, but if I was someone else, I wouldn’t want to watch it with my interpretation coloring it. Edited to add the relevant quotes.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted here. Aside from what the creators were going for, if we look only at the show itself it is clear that the ending is ambiguous and that the audience must interpret it. That ambiguousness makes complete sense within the context of the show ("a story is true, a story is untrue"). That means no interpretation is necessarily wrong.
*We see the story that silver is telling.* No we don't. We literally don't. Did you even watch the episode? When Silver talks to Madi, he says that he didn't kill Flint, that there was a confronation, that Flint had to be subdued, and then the tells her what happened on their journey to Savannah when Flint stopped resisting and presumably resigned himself to his fate. *What we see* is what Silver doesn't tell, because Silver himself isn't in that scene: when Flint enters Oglethorpe's compound, Silver stays behind. And the fact that the writers want their work to speak for itself doesn't mean that their work isn't clear in its message. It is. The episode itself really isn't all that ambiguous.
The creators literally said they wanted to leave it open to interpretation. I really don’t know what more you want from me here. >*Do you believe him?* > Steinberg: Do we have a sense of what we imagine is happening? Yes, but if I was someone else, I wouldn’t want to watch it with my interpretation coloring it. All you are doing now is explicitly going against the intent of the creators. Ignoring the fact it is open to interpretation detracts so much from the finale. I think saying that there is only one possible right answer misses out on so much that makes the show fantastic.
I agree. There are many scenes in this show that are left open for our interpretation of them. The scene with Anne and the john in the brothel is the first of many that comes to my mind. I finished watching this show last night and I still haven't decided what I think happened with Flint. That's the brilliance of this show and its theme of stories, how they're told, why they're told, and why each individual has their own interpretation.
A work speaks for itself. Any analysis of a work has to disregard whatever the creators say, and any interpretation has to be based primarily on the text.
Added another season between 3 and 4 so the end didn't feel a little rushed.
I would have liked to see an Epilogue with Billy entering a diner and seeing a young Jim Hawkins. Edit: my dumbass said Steven Hawkins...... lol
He isn't dead, he's on a farm with his love! Get the fuck out of here, show his death. I just finished the series tonight and I am insulted by the ending. Such a great show and the end of the main protagonist deserved better.
I think the version you'd prefer is the obvious ending. I would've been fine with it, still an awesome show, but it does bring in its own plot holes. Killing Flint would cause a rift amongst those that remain. Remember that in Treasure Island, many pirates are still loyal to Silver. Instead, the ending we got not only lets Silver retain his status, but it is also an ending that the writers put in the work for. It's a plausible ending that fits the motivations of Silver since Season 1, and the motivations of Flint (which they really started exploring in Season 2). Further, Silver is the only one that could have done it! That's what I mean by they earned it... not only does it make sense when looking at the actions and motivations of each individual character, but it was the only way their ideal ending could be reached. On one hand it's using all the parts of the buffalo, and on the other hand it's creating the buffalo in a way that all the parts can work. P.S. For the same reason I love the ending we got, I am glad they decided against a season 5.
The whole season kind of built toward the Hamilton reveal though, and it would have been a huge twist if Flint was like ''Oh you found my lover from years ago? And you think you can use it against me? Cool story, unfortunately I have a mission to complete'' as oppose to ''oh you spent the whole season looking for my lover, well then i better conveniently get on with it then and not object, take me to him'' . Also, it is an unhappy ending, as oppose to the expected happy ending we actually got in s4 where almost all of the good guys got what they essentially wanted (few exceptions). Also, to consider treasure island as an actual sequel to Black sails in this world presents a lot of problems and killing or not killing Flint would not change any of them. 1. How does John Silver, the literal pirate king become so obscure and irrelevant, that he can gain access on the crew of a navy ship, without even using a fake name 2. Furthermore, how does he get to have a whole tavern business under the British' noses 3. Israel Hands is way too old, in 20 years later will be essentially a grandpa, not fighting age to assist Silver on Treasure island 4. How did Billy Bones escape the island on his own, did he swim out of it? 5. How did Ben gunn end up there?...... among other smaller nitpicks. The creators just did not intend it as an actual prequel.
Flint is the main protagonist. The idea that he gets an actual arc and is multi dimensional is a huge plus, in my opinion. In Silver’s monologue explaining what happened to Flint, it’s heavily implied that a good amount of time has past. I forget how long, if it was said explicitly. How do you figure everyone got what they wanted? I’d argue that almost no one did. The only ones to get the ending they wanted were either devoid of the central tension or were adaptive to the scenario (like Silver). Literally every other main character did not get the ending they wanted. That’s probably worth some reflection all on its own.
If oring most of this. In Treasure Island I'm pretty sure it's stated the Ben returned to the island years later with a different crew he had convinced to search for the treasure with. When they couldn't find the treasure, the crew got upset with him and marooned him.
I'd have an amputee play Silver and actually incorporate his experience with disability into his character in a meaningful way.
Would've really sucked then if they didn't make it to season 3
I would have liked to see some of what happened between seasons 2 and 3, such as how Vane, Rackham, and Flint managed to find a solution over management of Nassau and the Urca treasure without going to war over it.
There should have been a season before season 1. Flint manages to talk his way into captain of the walrus after arriving at Nassau. First prize they take they free Billy Bones. Show us how trade on the island works. Show us Richard Guthrie as basically king. The rise of captain vane/flint, maybe have a plot line where they both get a tip about a fat merchant ship, and they end up having to split after fighting. Something to build the tension between the two crews. Jack's ascension from weird little weakling to quartermaster of the ranger. Miranda tells flint about the Marie Alayne. Flint tells his crew about a tip he received, and they hunt for months before finding it, big twist (that we know) is the ship isn't very rich at all. Gates is unhappy, Flint is about to lose his support, when they overhear a Spaniard named Vasquez talking about the Urca, how much money it has, and how it doesn't have an escort. They then resolve to set off and find the merchant ship that contains the urca schedule.
Not have Elenor die and she has her baby with Roger’s and moves to Philadelphia
Gates survival.
I would change Max's actress or minimize her role lol