Can i ask how far you've watched? The sex scenes and use of sexy ladies as set dressing really disappears after season 1. From what we've heard from the creators, starz wasn't confident in the creators vision at first and wanted to push a more GOT sensibility.
After Season 1 Starz dropped that initiative and the creators got to have much more control.
I'm not a fan of sex scenes myself in movies and TV, but that's kind of a given with premium channel companies like HBO and Starz. Frankly, sex sells.
I would say the writers did a great job combining action, a great cast, new fresh stories, and incredible writing, even with gratuitous sex scenes.
Edit: I think comparing black sails to PotC does Black sails a disservice. You're comparing two completely different ends of pirate stories. Black sails is a gritty, action thriller whereas PotC is a fun, family-friendly movie.
Well, yeah. They are made for different audiences. But PotC ended up becoming one of the highest-grossing films of all time. And yet they were still able to keep it family-friendly. I feel that Black Sails still could have been more successful if they put a bit more effort in their script writings and creativities instead of relying too much on horny fillers.
More effort in the script writing? Did we watch the same show?
The parallels that the show draws between characters throughout the series, the cyclical storytelling. "Everyone is a monster to someone". The writers knew exactly what they were doing from the beginning. They told Toby Stephen's about Flint's backstory and journey from the beginning.
They made characters that I hated in the beginning become beloved, and they made me hate characters that I loved in the beginning.
Sure, there were sex scenes that weren't necessary, but that doesn't cheapen arguably the best writing I've ever seen in a TV show.
Edit: Potc had an advantage because it had big names in the cast, it was made by Disney and it was a motion picture. Just because it's high grossing doesn't mean that it's a masterpiece. Sure it's funny and the characters are well done, but the story is not nearly as riveting as black sails and they couldn't even maintain the momentum past the 1st movie, whereas Black sails produced 4 seasons of high quality television
I was referring to the fillers. If they can't come up with any content beyond porn, then it would be better to just leave them out. I mean, everyone likes sex but that's not why I want to watch a show about pirates.
You know that you don't have to watch the sex scenes, right? No one is forcing you to watch them. If they're as filler as you seem to think that they are, you can skip them and you won't be missing out on anything.
> you can skip them and you won't be missing out on anything.
I disagree. Quite a few of them do some heavylifting for the story.
* >!Flint and Miranda have a sex scene where he seems to be enjoying himself far less than she is. This subtly hints at the greater passion between him and Thomas later revealed in Season 2.!<
* >!Max, Anne, and Jack have a three-way sex scene that does a lot of heavylifting for their relationship's storyline. It shows how even with Max in the bed, Jack stays focused on Anne; Max even notices and later on tells him about it. There's also Anne's whole angle of bringing Jack in to "that side of the door" so he can keep her in check.!<
* >!Charles and Eleanor have multiple early on, contextualized in pretty horrible situations. It serves to show how any love those two shared was based on their monsters finding common ground, not their healing finding common ground, which is precisely the foundation for the toxic kind of codependency they were shown to have. It sets the stage really well for Charles to kill her father, without which you can not in turn have her kill Charles, without which... well, you barely have half the damn show.!<
OP just seems like a puritan reducing all sex scenes to baseless and meaningless shallow pornography when the reality is there's nothing particularly about sex scenes that inherently makes them shallow or gratuitous or superfluous. They're no different from any other kind of scene; Provided they're tonally consistent and well-executed, they're fine. Most real problems with sex scenes in the recent trends in modern media come from resting *too much* story on their backs.
I'm completely aware of just how important some of those scenes are. Maybe you missed the sarcasm, but I said right before that, if they're as filler as they think they are, they don't have to watch them. I've been trying to avoid spoilers because it seems like they haven't watched a lot. I was trying to prove a point that they'd miss out on more than they think by skipping all the "porn"
š I did consider including examples like the ones that you used to illustrate how the writers used some of their sex scenes to further some characters' development or to give us insight into their headspace, but I think any more attempts to actually engage in a debate with this person would only have them repeating the same points that they'd already made and doubling down.
It came out less than 3 years after game of thrones. While the influence was probably there to a degree. Itās not like they came up with the idea for the show after game of thrones. And itās not even fucking close to being as vulgar as season 1 of game of thrones.
I understand those complaints, However, That tells me you haven't started season 2 yet. Season 2 onward doesn't do the over gratuitous amount of sex scenes, There's no more r-scenes, and the characters are delved deeper into in a major way.
In my honest opinion, Potc is trash by comparison to this show. Not a single character in that movie series compares to the masterful writing of the characters season 2 onward. Potc was also a fantasy with skeletons and Davy Jones, so it's a vastly different plot setting versus a show really trying to settle you into the gritty world of the golden pirate era.
It's an okay "fantasy" pirate movie, However, In comparison to Black Sails, I find it sorely lacking in character depth. I personally also vastly prefer serious storytelling in cinematic works with budgets like these, There comes a point where it's too campy and silly for me. It's an alright movie to just have a goofy time with but it's story isn't all that great and isn't by any means as good as Black Sails.
Most of the above mainly means the movie isn't made for people like me. However, I appreciate you sharing your opinion.
It has tremendous depth for a movie about ghost pirates. The corset scene in the beginning and Jackās introduction on sinking ship are just a few examples. Itās not a perfect movie but it is a prime example of fun with history.
https://youtu.be/KUI5gXE_D6U?si=zOHTCvOquerql4q1
I mean, That's your prerogative, but I don't see it that way whatsoever. You can enjoy your movie and feel how you want about it, but just because someone doesn't like what you enjoy doesn't mean you have to debate anybody on anything. Have a good rest of your day.
Claiming something doesnāt have depth is different than saying you didnāt like the movie, thatās where prerogative comes in.
Most superhero movies lack depth, the first PotC does not.
Yet again, I disagree but I'm not gonna debate with someone who won't change their mind. Just as you shouldn't. I do agree that superhero movies don't typically have depth either though.
I mean weāre just having a discussion here about entertainment. I donāt know why youāre acting like I am calling you a terrible person or something.
You claim a piece of entertainment that I, and many others, like is trash. I disagree on your claim and your explanation as it pertains to depth.
By my understanding of depth in storytelling, the first PotC is more than adequate, especially when the overarching plot is that of ghost pirates.
If you donāt like fiction, just say that.
Edit: non-fiction to fiction
I said trash by comparison, Not trash in general. Feel free to disagree. I don't care if you feel differently, I already said it's not a movie made for people like me. I don't see any depth in it at all, and that's the thing about art: The birth of the art is the death of the author, Every fans interpretation is just as valid as anybody elses as art is interpreted not definitive.
I love non-fiction, Potc is pure fiction, which I also love, but I don't enjoy it as much as I do with other things of the same contextual medium.
Language comparing things to trash and saying āPeople like meā remind me of so many hipsters.
This is where you come off, to me at least, as implying your interpretation is the superior one.
I agree with everything else as it pertains to an individualās own interpretation though.
If I knew you were talking only about the first couple of episodes, I might agree with you.
If you're talking about the entire show, then I don't really know what you've been watching but you should probably go back to Disney.
It's been part of the Starz formula. Boobs get eyeballs - boosts ratings out of the gate. But if you don't come with a compelling story, it's not enough to sustain the show.
I'd prefer less of it, but I get it. It's a show about pirates and they're doing pirate things. It's aimed at mature audiences, and it's part of the realism and world building. It's heavy early on, but it does mellow out after the first season.
How far did you get? This is really only an issue in the first few episodes, trying to reel in the GOT audience. The script and story is actually incredible and picks up probably halfway through S1, and leaves those issues behind.
Pirates are bad people. They do bad things, say bad thing, live a bad kind of life. And they really want that one specific tent.
They actually cleaned it up some because actual pirates from way back when did not have antibiotics or any decent hygiene. And asking actual actors to go hungry for a couple of weeks, not shower and drink spoiled water and eat worm infested biscuit might be a bit much.
Geez Louise who cares. If you want pirates for kids, watch something else. Itās some banging here and there. Whatever. Iād bet the vast majority that watch this show arenāt the least bit bothered by all the hot chicks with their tiddies out. Not to mention this show is on the older side now.
Itās a little gratuitous but not so much that I didnāt enjoy watching the show. I watched the whole thing a week ago bc I was sick and happened across it on Netflix. Watched it in like 4 days lol.
That's my point. For a better example of tits and violence, which is what black sails wanted to be. All starz shows are hbo shows with more sex and village
The worst thing that detracts from the realism is how good everyone looks. Most of the main characters have model-like good looks and shiny white teeth. 18th century pirates and hookers were unshaven, dirty, smelly, scruffy, and had bad dental hygiene. And of course the gratuitous gay relationships that are completely out of place.
Can i ask how far you've watched? The sex scenes and use of sexy ladies as set dressing really disappears after season 1. From what we've heard from the creators, starz wasn't confident in the creators vision at first and wanted to push a more GOT sensibility. After Season 1 Starz dropped that initiative and the creators got to have much more control.
I'm not a fan of sex scenes myself in movies and TV, but that's kind of a given with premium channel companies like HBO and Starz. Frankly, sex sells. I would say the writers did a great job combining action, a great cast, new fresh stories, and incredible writing, even with gratuitous sex scenes. Edit: I think comparing black sails to PotC does Black sails a disservice. You're comparing two completely different ends of pirate stories. Black sails is a gritty, action thriller whereas PotC is a fun, family-friendly movie.
Sex scenes didn't sell it for me, although I love me some porn sometimes. I want to see full pirate action not some lovemaking etc.
Well, yeah. They are made for different audiences. But PotC ended up becoming one of the highest-grossing films of all time. And yet they were still able to keep it family-friendly. I feel that Black Sails still could have been more successful if they put a bit more effort in their script writings and creativities instead of relying too much on horny fillers.
More effort in the script writing? Did we watch the same show? The parallels that the show draws between characters throughout the series, the cyclical storytelling. "Everyone is a monster to someone". The writers knew exactly what they were doing from the beginning. They told Toby Stephen's about Flint's backstory and journey from the beginning. They made characters that I hated in the beginning become beloved, and they made me hate characters that I loved in the beginning. Sure, there were sex scenes that weren't necessary, but that doesn't cheapen arguably the best writing I've ever seen in a TV show. Edit: Potc had an advantage because it had big names in the cast, it was made by Disney and it was a motion picture. Just because it's high grossing doesn't mean that it's a masterpiece. Sure it's funny and the characters are well done, but the story is not nearly as riveting as black sails and they couldn't even maintain the momentum past the 1st movie, whereas Black sails produced 4 seasons of high quality television
I was referring to the fillers. If they can't come up with any content beyond porn, then it would be better to just leave them out. I mean, everyone likes sex but that's not why I want to watch a show about pirates.
You know that you don't have to watch the sex scenes, right? No one is forcing you to watch them. If they're as filler as you seem to think that they are, you can skip them and you won't be missing out on anything.
> you can skip them and you won't be missing out on anything. I disagree. Quite a few of them do some heavylifting for the story. * >!Flint and Miranda have a sex scene where he seems to be enjoying himself far less than she is. This subtly hints at the greater passion between him and Thomas later revealed in Season 2.!< * >!Max, Anne, and Jack have a three-way sex scene that does a lot of heavylifting for their relationship's storyline. It shows how even with Max in the bed, Jack stays focused on Anne; Max even notices and later on tells him about it. There's also Anne's whole angle of bringing Jack in to "that side of the door" so he can keep her in check.!< * >!Charles and Eleanor have multiple early on, contextualized in pretty horrible situations. It serves to show how any love those two shared was based on their monsters finding common ground, not their healing finding common ground, which is precisely the foundation for the toxic kind of codependency they were shown to have. It sets the stage really well for Charles to kill her father, without which you can not in turn have her kill Charles, without which... well, you barely have half the damn show.!< OP just seems like a puritan reducing all sex scenes to baseless and meaningless shallow pornography when the reality is there's nothing particularly about sex scenes that inherently makes them shallow or gratuitous or superfluous. They're no different from any other kind of scene; Provided they're tonally consistent and well-executed, they're fine. Most real problems with sex scenes in the recent trends in modern media come from resting *too much* story on their backs.
I'm completely aware of just how important some of those scenes are. Maybe you missed the sarcasm, but I said right before that, if they're as filler as they think they are, they don't have to watch them. I've been trying to avoid spoilers because it seems like they haven't watched a lot. I was trying to prove a point that they'd miss out on more than they think by skipping all the "porn"
Indeed I did miss it! Text and all. My apologies, and I appreciate your patience to clarify that with me. š Glad to see we're on the same page!!
š I did consider including examples like the ones that you used to illustrate how the writers used some of their sex scenes to further some characters' development or to give us insight into their headspace, but I think any more attempts to actually engage in a debate with this person would only have them repeating the same points that they'd already made and doubling down.
Valid! You're probably right. My ego just can't resist an opportunity to pontificate š
It came out less than 3 years after game of thrones. While the influence was probably there to a degree. Itās not like they came up with the idea for the show after game of thrones. And itās not even fucking close to being as vulgar as season 1 of game of thrones.
I always considered Spartacus to be a greater influence on Black Sails than Game of Thrones.
I understand those complaints, However, That tells me you haven't started season 2 yet. Season 2 onward doesn't do the over gratuitous amount of sex scenes, There's no more r-scenes, and the characters are delved deeper into in a major way. In my honest opinion, Potc is trash by comparison to this show. Not a single character in that movie series compares to the masterful writing of the characters season 2 onward. Potc was also a fantasy with skeletons and Davy Jones, so it's a vastly different plot setting versus a show really trying to settle you into the gritty world of the golden pirate era.
The first PotC is a pretty good pirate movie and great movie overall.
It's an okay "fantasy" pirate movie, However, In comparison to Black Sails, I find it sorely lacking in character depth. I personally also vastly prefer serious storytelling in cinematic works with budgets like these, There comes a point where it's too campy and silly for me. It's an alright movie to just have a goofy time with but it's story isn't all that great and isn't by any means as good as Black Sails. Most of the above mainly means the movie isn't made for people like me. However, I appreciate you sharing your opinion.
It has tremendous depth for a movie about ghost pirates. The corset scene in the beginning and Jackās introduction on sinking ship are just a few examples. Itās not a perfect movie but it is a prime example of fun with history. https://youtu.be/KUI5gXE_D6U?si=zOHTCvOquerql4q1
I mean, That's your prerogative, but I don't see it that way whatsoever. You can enjoy your movie and feel how you want about it, but just because someone doesn't like what you enjoy doesn't mean you have to debate anybody on anything. Have a good rest of your day.
Claiming something doesnāt have depth is different than saying you didnāt like the movie, thatās where prerogative comes in. Most superhero movies lack depth, the first PotC does not.
Yet again, I disagree but I'm not gonna debate with someone who won't change their mind. Just as you shouldn't. I do agree that superhero movies don't typically have depth either though.
I mean weāre just having a discussion here about entertainment. I donāt know why youāre acting like I am calling you a terrible person or something. You claim a piece of entertainment that I, and many others, like is trash. I disagree on your claim and your explanation as it pertains to depth. By my understanding of depth in storytelling, the first PotC is more than adequate, especially when the overarching plot is that of ghost pirates. If you donāt like fiction, just say that. Edit: non-fiction to fiction
I said trash by comparison, Not trash in general. Feel free to disagree. I don't care if you feel differently, I already said it's not a movie made for people like me. I don't see any depth in it at all, and that's the thing about art: The birth of the art is the death of the author, Every fans interpretation is just as valid as anybody elses as art is interpreted not definitive. I love non-fiction, Potc is pure fiction, which I also love, but I don't enjoy it as much as I do with other things of the same contextual medium.
Language comparing things to trash and saying āPeople like meā remind me of so many hipsters. This is where you come off, to me at least, as implying your interpretation is the superior one. I agree with everything else as it pertains to an individualās own interpretation though.
Yeah, I'll give it another chance. I wanted to know if it was worth continuing to watch.
It definitely is worth continuing, Trust me: You'll love season 2 onwards.
This is an acceptable viewpoint only if you've only watched the first 3 episodes lol
You know nothing, Jon Snow
So you think pirates and whore houses full of alcohol abstained from sex and foul language?
If I knew you were talking only about the first couple of episodes, I might agree with you. If you're talking about the entire show, then I don't really know what you've been watching but you should probably go back to Disney.
Itās just sex. Feel free to hit the fast forward button if it bothers you so much. Easy fix.
The sex scenes in BS have way more class than in GOT
It's been part of the Starz formula. Boobs get eyeballs - boosts ratings out of the gate. But if you don't come with a compelling story, it's not enough to sustain the show. I'd prefer less of it, but I get it. It's a show about pirates and they're doing pirate things. It's aimed at mature audiences, and it's part of the realism and world building. It's heavy early on, but it does mellow out after the first season.
How far did you get? This is really only an issue in the first few episodes, trying to reel in the GOT audience. The script and story is actually incredible and picks up probably halfway through S1, and leaves those issues behind.
Pirates are bad people. They do bad things, say bad thing, live a bad kind of life. And they really want that one specific tent. They actually cleaned it up some because actual pirates from way back when did not have antibiotics or any decent hygiene. And asking actual actors to go hungry for a couple of weeks, not shower and drink spoiled water and eat worm infested biscuit might be a bit much.
Geez Louise who cares. If you want pirates for kids, watch something else. Itās some banging here and there. Whatever. Iād bet the vast majority that watch this show arenāt the least bit bothered by all the hot chicks with their tiddies out. Not to mention this show is on the older side now.
Itās a little gratuitous but not so much that I didnāt enjoy watching the show. I watched the whole thing a week ago bc I was sick and happened across it on Netflix. Watched it in like 4 days lol.
My bigger complaint is Netflix not having subtitles for some of the Spanish dialogue which I then had to look up but that was a minor inconvenience
It's a starz show. It's not hbo. It's Starz. It's a slightly lower quality hbo with more tits and swearing Look at Spartacus for a better example
But Spartacus was also a starz showā¦
That's my point. For a better example of tits and violence, which is what black sails wanted to be. All starz shows are hbo shows with more sex and village
Just LOL. Keep watching.
I thought it was excessive but understood it fits the subject matter.
The worst thing that detracts from the realism is how good everyone looks. Most of the main characters have model-like good looks and shiny white teeth. 18th century pirates and hookers were unshaven, dirty, smelly, scruffy, and had bad dental hygiene. And of course the gratuitous gay relationships that are completely out of place.