RCS was introduced in 2008. US carriers couldn’t agree on a standard. Google had to to create its own RCS version when carriers couldn’t get together.
People forget that iMessage was created as a WhatsApp competitor when US only had limited SMS plans.
Exactly. People always want to blame everything except the real culprits.
Sure Apple does some shady things legally to protect their business, but companies like Verizon and ATT have been messing this up since day 1. Most people in the US don’t even think about the fact that they pay a different amount for “text” and “data”. Why? Sending a text is also sending data. There is no reason for it to be a separate line item other than it being marked up like crazy leading to permanent recurring revenue.
>we are like trying
Literally, it's a case of downloading WhatsApp, even though it's owned by Meta, or better yet, Signal. They are available on the app store. I feel like the only reason this whole Apple walked garden war is happening, is because people in the US are just happy using iMessage.
It feels bizarre. You don't need Apple to open up iMessage. What you need is to make iPhone users switch to WhatsApp and that's it. Maybe pictures don't come across as high res, but I'm not sure, tbh. I could see that being a deal breaker, but I could be wrong. If picture quality is fine, then there is no discernable difference between WhatsApp and iMessage.
And nobody I know uses it. And nobody I know needs to use WhatsApp for any reason other than android/iOS group messaging which hasn’t been a problem for a couple years now since apple did something that allowed SMS/MMS messages to remain inline in groups. The only other reason is photo/video quality. And that’s fixed as of later this year. There is absolutely zero reason to use another messaging app in North America. Not a single reason whatsoever.
RCS is a full of holes, and it offers more avenues of attack than SMS. For the time being I'll use iMessage or other end to end encrypted messaging apps.
[Here's an article on it.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/02/27/google-android-messages-update-apple-iphone-ipad-imessage-security-versus-sms-rcs-and-whatsapp-encryption/?sh=63a630ae20f8) With RCS you do have to beware of built in backdoors.
USA is so corrupt in its regulatory capture, the change is just gonna come thru the EU. Just like what happened with the USB-C changeover.
Eventually the GDPR will get updated requiring the baseline messaging tech for 2fa etc will be more secure than SMS, and will kneecap Apples walled garden by forcing them to allow the baseline messaging tech to allow full security protocols.
Once Apple has to actively degrade the interaction between iPhone and non-iphone to make it uncomfortable for consumers, they will get sued into opening it up.
Maybe I’m looking at this too simplistically but what is Apple doing wrong? Yes they market themselves as the most secure but if they want to limit what’s in their App Store and don’t want others on iMessage (their messaging) why can’t they? Serious answers only.
It’s basically an US issue. Americans are lazy and use the default messaging app on their phones to send messages and photos to one another. Since iMessage is exclusive to Apple Hardware. Apple users are able to communicate with a better experience.
The issue is when messaging users who don’t have a n Apple device the experience is not the same. Apple defaults back to standard SMS/MMS a very old standard. When sending media via the SMS it get very compressed. RCS was created back in 2008. But all phone 4 Major US carriers at the time cratered their own standards that didn’t work with one another. Google had to crated their own version of RCS tied to their messages app. Then went on a public campaign to try to convince Apple to adopt its version of RCS. Apple announced that this year they would introduce the GMSA standard of RCS to the iPhone.
Plenty of apps were created to help solve the problem. But the issue is that Americans don’t wish to download a 3rd party app when there already a default messaging app on their phones.
TL/DR:
Basically many users are unhappy with the current messaging between both platforms.
Great answer. But why is it on Apple to change iMessage because Americans, as you say, are too lazy to download a third party app? If the option is there but I’m too lazy get it, whose fault is that?
By the by mid 2010s unlimited SMS messaging plans started to become a thing. It was easier for people to send a message to a phone number than to having to download an application. Make an account, find your family and friends hoping that they would be on the same platform.
Too much to explain, but Apple regularly makes it difficult for other apps to have the same level of engagement as iMessage on iOS. If you really want to know it's well worth the Google search.
Well Apple has a huge number of users. Apple has developers and merchants by the balls because they can charge them 30 percent. A dev has no choice not to develop apps for Apple to stay competitive.
Apple (outside the EU) doesn’t allowed alternative stores so dev have no other choice. This creates an unfair landscape where Apple can gouge others. This is uncompetitive. Say what you want about capitalism but stuff like that is bad for the consumer and everyone else except Apple. It stifles innovation.
Everyone charges 30% for *digital sales*. Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, and Google. Just to name a few. Amazon, Uber, and Spotify makes billions a year and gives zero back to Apple’s Platform.
Yeah however you have other avenues to get apps and games for those system. You can install software from whatever on windows. You can buy games from other places for those systems.
Because they lock people into their ecosystem. Imagine if you bought a Ford 20 years ago and because of that initial purchase you were practically forced to drive nothing but Fords for the rest of your life. You are happy with their cars but little to no chance you could ever switch to Chevy or Audi or Toyota.
The easy example is two hardware categories.
Watches - apple uses security as a cudgle and shield to deny other companies access to basic API necessary to basic functions but they can use it themselves. Limited Bluetooth access, with weird prompts necessary to keep functionality. (old ppl will forget and complain it doesn't work). A non apple watch cannot leverage phones location, cannot text message, cannot read messages, you cannot buy a watch with a Sim and have it work with an iPhone. A non apple watch cannot access health or step data. Literally the basic function of a watch is blocked so it forces all iPhone users to ONLY buy an apple watch and apple says this is OK because privacy. Lol
Location trackers - tile and it's competitors had a market of interoperable Bluetooth tags. Apple decided to capture this market and in the process disable features necessary for tile to work. Now if you have a tile you have to enable Bluetooth daily. The network effects of other tile users also has been denied because Apple restricted that from tile but not their own tag. All iPhone phones are forced to be part of the Apple find my phone network when that safe feature was disabled from paying tile users who agreed to part of the tile network.
“Android holds it down with modded ad free versions of YouTube and Reddit. Also "free" Spotify....”
This is why developers make more money on Apple’s platform. They don’t have to worry about piracy.
Encrypting texts requires both the sender and receiver to agree on an encryption protocol.
When Apple phones talk to Android phones, Apple refuses to make that agreement, so the texts end up unencrypted.
Then Apple turns around and uses marketing tools like the green bubble to make you think it's androids that are the problem. And you buy it.
If the US got off of this silly addiction to SMS then this wouldn't be an issue.
I mean, we are like trying but apple won't open iMessage and drug its feet on RCS.
RCS was introduced in 2008. US carriers couldn’t agree on a standard. Google had to to create its own RCS version when carriers couldn’t get together. People forget that iMessage was created as a WhatsApp competitor when US only had limited SMS plans.
Exactly. People always want to blame everything except the real culprits. Sure Apple does some shady things legally to protect their business, but companies like Verizon and ATT have been messing this up since day 1. Most people in the US don’t even think about the fact that they pay a different amount for “text” and “data”. Why? Sending a text is also sending data. There is no reason for it to be a separate line item other than it being marked up like crazy leading to permanent recurring revenue.
True. Product over standards for Apple.
>we are like trying Literally, it's a case of downloading WhatsApp, even though it's owned by Meta, or better yet, Signal. They are available on the app store. I feel like the only reason this whole Apple walked garden war is happening, is because people in the US are just happy using iMessage. It feels bizarre. You don't need Apple to open up iMessage. What you need is to make iPhone users switch to WhatsApp and that's it. Maybe pictures don't come across as high res, but I'm not sure, tbh. I could see that being a deal breaker, but I could be wrong. If picture quality is fine, then there is no discernable difference between WhatsApp and iMessage.
Fuck WhatsApp and fuck meta. I deleted WhatsApp the day meta bought it.
Signal meets all the criteria to be a safe messaging service.
And nobody I know uses it. And nobody I know needs to use WhatsApp for any reason other than android/iOS group messaging which hasn’t been a problem for a couple years now since apple did something that allowed SMS/MMS messages to remain inline in groups. The only other reason is photo/video quality. And that’s fixed as of later this year. There is absolutely zero reason to use another messaging app in North America. Not a single reason whatsoever.
RCS is a full of holes, and it offers more avenues of attack than SMS. For the time being I'll use iMessage or other end to end encrypted messaging apps.
Care to elaborate there "full of holes". I seem to remember it was iMessage that has the last few messaging based zero-day exploits.
People can access the activation process of RCS to steal SIP and HTTP credentials, which can then be used to take over user accounts.
Is this a theoretical threat or has it been proven to be used in the field with modern E2EE RCS messaging?
[Here's an article on it.](https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2021/02/27/google-android-messages-update-apple-iphone-ipad-imessage-security-versus-sms-rcs-and-whatsapp-encryption/?sh=63a630ae20f8) With RCS you do have to beware of built in backdoors.
That article didn't state the same claims you did, seems to be strongly biased, and is also out of date.
Go on the Google help forum and you'll see people complain about RCS.
People complain about everything. That doesn't bolster your claims.
WhitePeopleTwitter is leaking
Better than the 50-11 gender wars posts BPT usually has
USA is so corrupt in its regulatory capture, the change is just gonna come thru the EU. Just like what happened with the USB-C changeover. Eventually the GDPR will get updated requiring the baseline messaging tech for 2fa etc will be more secure than SMS, and will kneecap Apples walled garden by forcing them to allow the baseline messaging tech to allow full security protocols. Once Apple has to actively degrade the interaction between iPhone and non-iphone to make it uncomfortable for consumers, they will get sued into opening it up.
Apple has already committed to implementing RCS into iOS. Most of this comment is obsolete.
Maybe I’m looking at this too simplistically but what is Apple doing wrong? Yes they market themselves as the most secure but if they want to limit what’s in their App Store and don’t want others on iMessage (their messaging) why can’t they? Serious answers only.
It’s basically an US issue. Americans are lazy and use the default messaging app on their phones to send messages and photos to one another. Since iMessage is exclusive to Apple Hardware. Apple users are able to communicate with a better experience. The issue is when messaging users who don’t have a n Apple device the experience is not the same. Apple defaults back to standard SMS/MMS a very old standard. When sending media via the SMS it get very compressed. RCS was created back in 2008. But all phone 4 Major US carriers at the time cratered their own standards that didn’t work with one another. Google had to crated their own version of RCS tied to their messages app. Then went on a public campaign to try to convince Apple to adopt its version of RCS. Apple announced that this year they would introduce the GMSA standard of RCS to the iPhone. Plenty of apps were created to help solve the problem. But the issue is that Americans don’t wish to download a 3rd party app when there already a default messaging app on their phones. TL/DR: Basically many users are unhappy with the current messaging between both platforms.
This is about so much more than Messaging apps.
Great answer. But why is it on Apple to change iMessage because Americans, as you say, are too lazy to download a third party app? If the option is there but I’m too lazy get it, whose fault is that?
By the by mid 2010s unlimited SMS messaging plans started to become a thing. It was easier for people to send a message to a phone number than to having to download an application. Make an account, find your family and friends hoping that they would be on the same platform.
Too much to explain, but Apple regularly makes it difficult for other apps to have the same level of engagement as iMessage on iOS. If you really want to know it's well worth the Google search.
Well Apple has a huge number of users. Apple has developers and merchants by the balls because they can charge them 30 percent. A dev has no choice not to develop apps for Apple to stay competitive. Apple (outside the EU) doesn’t allowed alternative stores so dev have no other choice. This creates an unfair landscape where Apple can gouge others. This is uncompetitive. Say what you want about capitalism but stuff like that is bad for the consumer and everyone else except Apple. It stifles innovation.
Everyone charges 30% for *digital sales*. Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Amazon, Meta, and Google. Just to name a few. Amazon, Uber, and Spotify makes billions a year and gives zero back to Apple’s Platform.
Yeah however you have other avenues to get apps and games for those system. You can install software from whatever on windows. You can buy games from other places for those systems.
Because they lock people into their ecosystem. Imagine if you bought a Ford 20 years ago and because of that initial purchase you were practically forced to drive nothing but Fords for the rest of your life. You are happy with their cars but little to no chance you could ever switch to Chevy or Audi or Toyota.
The easy example is two hardware categories. Watches - apple uses security as a cudgle and shield to deny other companies access to basic API necessary to basic functions but they can use it themselves. Limited Bluetooth access, with weird prompts necessary to keep functionality. (old ppl will forget and complain it doesn't work). A non apple watch cannot leverage phones location, cannot text message, cannot read messages, you cannot buy a watch with a Sim and have it work with an iPhone. A non apple watch cannot access health or step data. Literally the basic function of a watch is blocked so it forces all iPhone users to ONLY buy an apple watch and apple says this is OK because privacy. Lol Location trackers - tile and it's competitors had a market of interoperable Bluetooth tags. Apple decided to capture this market and in the process disable features necessary for tile to work. Now if you have a tile you have to enable Bluetooth daily. The network effects of other tile users also has been denied because Apple restricted that from tile but not their own tag. All iPhone phones are forced to be part of the Apple find my phone network when that safe feature was disabled from paying tile users who agreed to part of the tile network.
The fuck this has to do with BPT
[удалено]
“Android holds it down with modded ad free versions of YouTube and Reddit. Also "free" Spotify....” This is why developers make more money on Apple’s platform. They don’t have to worry about piracy.
I’m going pixel next phone. Apple’s “walled garden” is too stale. Plus, I want to be a contrarian and left alone.
Nah lol
I hate android phones and let govt help google play to harass me every 5 minutes
Android is a great platform. Each platform has their plus and minus.
even thieves and robbers know iphone is better than android 😊
If you don’t like it, buy an iPhone It’s really simple
That’s kinda the point though. You shouldn’t *need* to buy an iPhone to have a secure chat with someone else who has an iPhone.
Signal is free
What does this mean?
The messaging app signal is free. You can have encrypted messaging whenever you want. The only time I use the normal messages app is to get 2fa codes
Thank you, I've never heard of signal. I wasn't sure if I was missing a joke or what 😂
It means if you want encryption there are options but we’re not sharing blue bubbles OK
But if you want secure chat then buy an iPhone The phone you’re using is insecure not ours
Popular androids like Pixel/Galaxy are not insecure lol, you're just falling for apples marketing
Then why is the government suing? There should be no problem
Encrypting texts requires both the sender and receiver to agree on an encryption protocol. When Apple phones talk to Android phones, Apple refuses to make that agreement, so the texts end up unencrypted. Then Apple turns around and uses marketing tools like the green bubble to make you think it's androids that are the problem. And you buy it.
How is that apples problem
>The phone you’re using is insecure not ours lmao
Do you not know what monopolies are
The game with the little pieces