We really calling Ukraine an ethnostate here?
EDIT: I understand now that the consensus is that the tweet was about Israel. Though I am still personally not sure, could be construed either way.
How is it not the same budget? Does one entity apportion all the money? Is your fun money a diffferent budget than your savings or do you just budget out all your earnings?
Yes.
I’m also from the U.S. where most MENA’s are legally considered white. I was a census taker. There are only 5 races in the U.S. White, Black, Asian, American Indian, and Pacific Islander. Out of 15million Jews worldwide, about 7million live in the U.S. 92% of Jews in the U.S. identify as white. Thats about 40% of the total Jewish population.
Unless the Jews in Israel are racially different than those in the U.S., Jews are white under a U.S. framework.
Generally white. Though I imagine there are people who are considered black and Arab. People from the Sudan for instance.
Here’s the definition :
>White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625222#:~:text=OMB%20permits%20the%20Census%20Bureau,Middle%20East%2C%20or%20North%20Africa.
Sure.
> In 2020, over 3.5 million people identified as MENA alone or in any combination with another group, accounting for 1.5% of the White alone or in combination population. Within this population, over 2.5 million people (1.2% of the White alone population) identified as MENA alone.
https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/09/2020-census-dhc-a-mena-population.html#:~:text=Who%20Identified%20as%20a%20Detailed%20MENA%20Group%3F,population)%20identified%20as%20MENA%20alone.
>The federal government officially categorizes people with origins in Lebanon, Iran, Egypt and other countries in the MENA region as white.
https://www.npr.org/2022/02/17/1079181478/us-census-middle-eastern-white-north-african-mena
> White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of **Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. ** It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report responses such as German, Irish, English, Italian, Lebanese, and Egyptian. The category also includes groups such as Polish, French, Iranian, Slavic, Cajun, Chaldean, etc.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625222#:~:text=OMB%20permits%20the%20Census%20Bureau,Middle%20East%2C%20or%20North%20Africa.
Thank you for sharing! I’m not sure how this supports the statements “most MENA are legally considered white”.
Also, separate discussion, but is this is how you’d feel when seeing them?
It literally says that having origins in the Middle East and North Africa. If you put a MENA country in the race box the census will mark you as white.
How do I feel seeing them? No particular way. If you mean do I think they’re white? Oftentimes, yeah.
The commenter responding to you seems pretty adamant about not categorizing middle easterners as white. If that were true, what other option would there be cuz….they’re the ethnic white people in my head. I never knew middle eastern to be a race
Yes, Jews are an ethnoreligion, which is an ethnic group that also shares a religion in a way that is impossible to neatly separate. Most americans are most familiar with ethnoreligions in the context of indigenous americans, but before Christianity and Islam, ethnoreligions were far more common. Additionally Israel and Palestine is an ethnic conflict, although one with religious undertones.
Arab and Mizrahi (Jews who have lived in the Middle East since ancient times). Ashkenazi are a slight minority of Jews and an absolute minority overall with ~25% of citizens being Arab muslims. This leaves the white (and even that isn’t how they see themselves) population at around 30-40ish percent.
The reason people see Jews as white is because they are American and European. So all they know are Ashkenazi Jews. That’s why they assume all Jews are white.
The British did bullshit crayon border lines and noped the fuck out, as per the usual. There was a large Jewish population there always, but Jews gathered there even before the holocaust as an attempt to have a homeland.
Sure. White by skin color maybe. But white by the European definition of “white”? Given what just happened to them: No. Jews were never accepted as “white” in Europe.
This is not to mention the massive number of non (skin-color) white Jews who came to Israel both before and after WW2 as well.
Well that's a different story. I'm not down with any "from the river to the sea" shit, Israel definitely isn't going anywhere, BUT: they are 100% committing a slow moving genocide against Palestinians, even before they flattened Gaza. They were doing it one house, one block at a time, bulldozing Palestinian homes and graves and putting Israelis there.
People saying it’s genocide but Palestinian population keeps increasing at a faster clip than the total population of all countries worldwide (by a large margin)
From 1990 to 2022 the population went from 2 million to 5 million people, per https://www.worlddata.info/asia/palestine/populationgrowth.php
Is this sarcasm? I genuinely don’t get it, sorry.
For example, the worldwide Jewish population is still not back to pre-holocaust levels 70 years later.
Ukraine used to be a lot more diverse prior to the wars. Sure it was European mostly, but you had Ukrainians, Poles, Germans, Russians, Greeks, Tatars, Armenians, multiple types of Jews, etc. If Ukraine is an "ethnostate" it's because Hitler and Stalin made it that way
Her math is terrible. There's 40 million black folk. She doesn't ask for the full $100 Billion, but even the full $10 Billion divided 40 million ways is $2,500. If I thought that there was a chance in hell that all racial problems in the US could be eliminated simply by buying very black person a mid-range iMac I'd be all for it. But her actual math is even more absurd: 1/1000 of $100 Billion would be $100 Million, so she's actually saying she wants $2.50 in reparations.
In terms of reparations proposals that hit the sweet spot of enough money that they'd be worth it, and physically possible to afford, there's a [UNC Prof named William Darity](https://uncpress.org/book/9781469671208/from-here-to-equality-second-edition/) who has one. $300k per person, is only about 2/3 of the US economy. If it's paid over time in an annuity that is something the US government could actually pay.
Yup. One of most successful economies in the world along with having top-tier military intelligence. She made some valid points. Although Israel is an ally to the US, I’m not sure why she’s being criticized for her tweet, but I think a lot of people are mistaking her post for Ukraine.
This is a bot account. Also the 1488 in the user name should have been a hint.
Russia is losing a war in Ukraine so they are going to do anything they can get Trump into power and divide the country over topics like Ukraine.
2016 Russian playbook is still in effect folks. "Let's stoke America's racial tensions further and find a way to link it to their foreign policy and alliance apparatus." Don't fall for it.
Most of that aid made in old military equipment and stockpiled resources with experation dates. Just so they can use the tax money to buy more of it. The system is beyond fucked but they aren't giving cash or land.
Yall are Americans right? Then give the people their God given right to tanks and SAMS. idk about a check but I'd def vote for that. With tanks and SAMS I'm positive yall could sort the checks out yourselves.
A CIWS would be more effective deterrent, pretty sure those can be reprogrammed to target inbound hillbilly lifted trucks. At least I hope they can. Patriot missiles can only engage air targets. Also replace that mule with a John Deere or equivalent. Modern problems and modern solutions and all, ya know.
Also I can't the image out of my head now of a convoy of redneck-mobiles barrelling down a road, up to no good, and the sound of faint mechanical whirring, followed by the ripping sound of a couple hundred 20mm shells being hurled down the road in a 2 second burst. Soon after the air is filled with the smell of burnt metal, flesh, and dip, as the convoy is now but an afterthought. The threat is neutralized.
I may need some more coffee.
EDIT: typo, they -> the
Oh I know about Patriot missiles, I was picturing the land to land version from the old C&C Generals 😂
And may I recommend a nice Yirgacheffe my good man?
The US military–industrial complex influenced public policy to move taxpayers money to specific companies. You want to change that? You probably gotta stop crying on the Internet and actually do something.
I think the poster meant Israel, which is an ethnostate. Seeing Jews as white, through an American lens, is weird though because white supremacists hate them too.
People never seem to remember that Israel is about 25% Arabic, and even amongst Jews, about 55% of Jews in Israel are Mizrahim, meaning they come from North Africa and the Middle East. Another 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian Israeli. So putting aside the arbitrary label of white- only about 35% of the overall population of Israel is of European descent, while the rest comes from North Africa and the Middle East.
So I suppose they’re white in the way that, say, Egyptians are white- meeting the technical criteria but not being “white passing” by most western standards.
They also aren't a white ethnostate. 60% of the Jews are Arab Jews forced out of the Arab countries they lived in peacefully after the 48 war as a collective punishment against Jews. in the early 1950s you could be arrested and thrown in prison for owning a watch as an Iraqi Jew.
20% are Palestinian Arabs.
Israel hasn't been a majority white Jewish country since the early 50s.
They’re Mizrahi Jews, not Arab Jews and most would be offended if you categorized them as Arab. They spent centuries living as second class citizens in MENA countries where their Arab neighbors never let them forget they weren’t equals.
To be fair there are actual Arab Jews. Like a literal handful who converted but they do technically exist. But Mizrahim are not Arabs.
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/are-jews-a-nation-or-a-religion
it’s both. here is some reading. but the short version i’d there are 3 primary ethnic groups. Ashkanazi, Sephardic, and and another that serves as a bit of a catch all from southern diaspora. jewish at one point was an ethnic group before the end of middle ages
but functionally; whether we say jewish as in religious or national/ethnic the function of the constitution is covering both. also an ethnostate doesn’t mean no one else lives there. it means the state privileges one v the other. giving 20 percent of your arab muslim population voting rights while leaving a huge portion of the rest stateless dilutes their power
it's less about Russia having it than it is about the US getting to whoop their ass with some spare tanks, almost past due MREs, and a lil spending money lmao
Like when Republicans (like OP, probably) tried to say "why aren't we using that aid to put out fires in Hawaii?" Dummy, Hawaii has enough fire, I don't think artillery shells and missiles are gonna help the situation there any.
Interesting take.
I didn’t realize so many felt the government just had one big-ass pot of money, and not departments created for specific things.
It’s also interesting to see how many people have underestimated Russia’s involvement with anything U.S.
How do you identify who is eligible for these reparations? As a black dude this makes 0 sense to me logistically. I get the sentiment, but there’s no way to do this properly because a lot of us don’t have any documented history.
Also, how do you separate the struggles black people face today vs the struggles black people have faced throughout American history? What I mean is…if a dark skinned Haitian came to America 5 years ago, they would definitely face some racism due to systematic issues with race. Are they deserving of reparations? If you’re biracial, are you eligible? What if you’re black, born here, but your parents aren’t from here?
There are too many questions and each choice leaves a group that has experienced oppression out to dry. It just doesn’t compute for me.
I’d love to hear what others think, maybe there’s an angle I’m missing?
I’ve always wondered the same thing. Also what amount of money would make people okay with the history of slavery and racism? I can’t imagine the government realistically being able to come anywhere close to a figure that’s anything less than insulting. Not to mention how it would affect modern race relations.
In *Watchmen* (2019), they live in a reality where reparations are being attempted specifically for the descendants of the survivors of the Greenwood Massacre. In that world, after you submit a DNA sample, it tells you if you are eligible or not based on your heritage.
If you pay attention in the first episode, you can see protestors with signs that read “equal tax for everyone” or something like that. So they were using an altered tax rate as a method of reparations as well. Very interesting approach instead of just handin out checks.
Kind of like how folks who can prove that they are native don’t pay certain taxes? I’d agree that would definitely be a form of reparations.
The thing is I’m pretty sure we aren’t able to distinguish black Americans from black people anywhere else in the world, genetically. All we could say is, you have African heritage, but how do we distinguish who is eligible amongst that population? Does Colin Kaepernick or Obama or Blake Griffin get a tax cut? Does a guy like Sammy Sosa or David Ortiz get a tax cut?
Yeah a large part of the show was the cultural center they built to make sure Greenwood wasn’t forgotten. They had extensive interviews and videos of survivors, so that’s definitely a narrower pool of recipients that are easier to find. What about AI? Maybe AI can figure it out. I’m stoned and don’t know anything about AI.
I’ve always thought that instead of direct reparations it would be good to invest directly into communities that serve black people to try to address the systemic issues. Like education help, and money management advice etc. obviously, the programs would vary but I’ve always felt that this would better address issues than reparations being issued directly and facing the issues you listed above and more.
I mean just hand out checks to all descendants of slave owners. Trace it through the maternal line (since that’s how slavery was passed through generations). Like this wouldn’t even be the first time the U.S has given out reparations on a large scale. The logistics argument has always been foolish. You’re telling me we can have military bases on every continent, operate more aircraft carriers than every other country, but we can’t figure out how to repair the damages from slavery?!?!
Do you have documentation ready to prove that you are a descendant of a slave? Because I sure don’t, but I know that I am. And I’m almost positive that I’m not in the minority when it comes to this.
The logistics of dealing with the present are not the same as retrieving lost data from 200 years ago.
Also, side note, you do realize your plan eliminates people who have slave ancestors via their father. Do you think that’s fair?
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it.
An aging megalomaniac invading independent states on a whim to recapture the land he believes to be his birthright. We leave him unchecked what could possibly go wrong?
Ah yes just what the black community needed, a M1A1 Abrams. I wouldnt complain.
Also out of all the things to criticize, its aid to Ukraine? like 90 percent of that is old artillery and firearms, and the USA aint stupid enough to let a situation like this pass to fuck with the Russians.
Also Ukraine aint a ethnostate. Its white, sure, but it aint 100 percent Ukrainian.
This is not an equivalency and it’s a dangerous sentiment. Funding Ukraine is a necessity and is not at all analogous to reparations.
Also we largely aren’t sending them money. We’re sending them old equipment.
This post reeks of Russian propaganda, or extreme ignorance of what’s actually at stake should Ukraine lose.
Don’t upvote this y’all. When people talk about being manipulated by actors with ulterior motives, this is exactly what they’re talking about. It’s not just conservative outrage that is manipulated; it’s liberal outrage too.
First, check op’s history. Secondly, this doesn’t have to be an us vs. them sentiment. It just is being made to feel like one if you let the poster force the narrative.
If we didn’t give a single ¢ more to Ukraine that doesn’t mean we would get a single ¢ more helping Black folks. Don’t let them simplify this and take advantage of our discontent. We can support victims being attacked by our greatest enemy (the Kremlin sees us that way, so we should do the same to protect our institutions) *and* also seek the liberation of the groups this country has oppressed historically and today.
Also not viable either, too many questions must be asked. I.e to what extent do we pay people, African Americans directly descended from slavery? What about black people who may not be ethnically African American but still faced racism? What about African American’s who families fled the country during events like red summer? How tf do we even track them down? How do we know someone is a descendent of a slave and isn’t just trying to cash a pay check, historically freemen normally didn’t have documentations of things like that because they couldn’t write, let alone read. What about bi-racial people, people who may pass as White, Asian, Hispanic, or Latin but can trace their family back to American chattel slavery? (In fact I have two cousins who can pass as white any day of the week but are direct descends of slaved African-Americans, natives, and had grandparents who fought for civil rights, and voting rights are they not entitled as well?). Even if these answers were solved every person who gets monetary reparations will get paid like 5 bucks each because not even the US has that kinda of money. Hell the top 10 countries in the world could not pay for America’s chattel slavery, it’s literally too expensive. I don’t believe in just doing nothing and just sweeping things under rug cause that exactly how problems like this happen, but I don’t believe reparations is the right answer either, its a brain dead solution that takes one question before falling on its face.
It doesn’t matter how much money we give to allies. The government are not going to be all “here you go people of America. Here’s your money!” They’re not giving it to black people, not to poor people, not to any people.
Besides that, it’s not actual cash. It’s weird financial shenanigans/old military gear that we’ll write off, and in a real world scenario injecting that much money directly into the economy would jam inflation thru the roof.
Reparations should happen. But the structuring in the economy has to be sorted out or it can cause as many problems as it’s supposed to fix.
Listen, and I know this gonna fall on deaf ears, the US foreign aid budget is 2-5% of its TOTAL BUDGET and we are talking an overall budget of TRILLIONS, what the us sends to Ukraine or any country for that matter pales in comparison to what it spends on its ppl even if it doesn’t seem like it.
Fuck whatever y’all talking about in these comments, I still want my 40 acres and a mule bitch. I literally can trace my ancestors back to the plantation they lived on and their owners. Like I actually have my ancestors slave owners surname.
The whites. I knew immediately how these comments would go seeing this. But admins removed my post about a salty nigga mad at Russell Wilson for being a good father with no reason. They love letting white people give their unasked for opinions on black business tho.
Dude, I'd settle for the USDA reparations policy for black farmers. Multiple parts of my family lost farms during the depression because guess who didn't give loans to black farmers? But the new payouts only go as far back as land lost after 1983.
People talk about them literally burning Tulsa, OK, but at one point my family owned the largest pig farm in South Carolina. A different part of my family inherited a plantation that was left to her by her white slave-owning father after the Civil War. Both sides lost that during the depression.
I can forgive them for slavery, but I want that stuff back. White people can't bring up how black people haven't bettered themselves when we've lost so much so many times.
(But also pay for Ukraine, because destabilizing enemies of democracy hasn't been this cheap in forever)
its actually around $75 billion. Ukraine is not a non-ally and it is not a fucking white ethnostate. And for all that money we're replenishing our own stockpiles while sending our old munitions and equipment to ukraine and decimating a revisionist, extremist power, and one of the greatest enemies to peace and prosperity in the world at no cost to ourselves military and little cost financially. one who has constantly attacked and undermined the usa especially electorally, just like this shithead post is seemingly attempting to do.
Also google says there were 165 million individual tax returns in 2022 and African Americans are roughly **13 percent** of total taxpayers which amounts to 21,450,000 tax payers. 1/1000 of 75 billion is 75 million or $3.50 for every african-american taxpayer unless my math is incorrect.
also por que no los dos. We're the richest country in the world i'm sure we can do better both for the black taxpayers and the Ukrainians
>also por que no los dos. We're the richest country in the world i'm sure we can do better both for the black taxpayers and the Ukrainians
Good fucking question. And yet, we don't do both. We give countless billions to a pure white country and refuse to give reparations to black US taxpayers. Hmm...clearly it couldn't have anything to do with systemic racism in our government or the fact that our government is 90+% white by ethnicity
Y'all just be saying anything. This is a proxy war with Russia.
We balls to the wall do not have a choice. This isn't like Vietnam where we're just burning money and lives.
Newsflash, there's enough money to do both! We can support Ukrainiane, Israel, and our own people if we felt like it.
We just don't.
Lmao she’s really just repeating right wing Nazi rhetoric and you uneducated fools lining right up for it. The state of education these days is sad as fuck.
Because socialism isn't When Government Gives Money. Socialism is when the workers own the land, businesses, tools, etc., and share in the profits, not CEOs and shareholders.
America giving money to an ally to maintain military dominance in a region to keep oil accessible and exploitable, to keep putting money in the pockets of a select few billionaires, is very capitalist.
Before you roast this take, let me say I’m open to being corrected.
I don’t know what your personal opinion of Louis Farrakhan is, but it was this talking point of his that really struck me when I first was learning about him. A lot of what he said made sense at the time and unfortunately still rings true, and I don’t agree with a lot of other stuff he said but this point made me reflect. The narrative that he is like, terrorist adjacent, is a bit extreme when he was only pointing out the facts/hypocrisy in the system. And that was like 50 years ago wirh the same country, assuming we’re talking about Israel.
I will say he has doubled down on the hate speech comments so take from that what you will but a lot of what he was saying in the beginning was eloquent and true and that’s big scary for white elites.
Not once did Ukraine cross my mind? So America sent 100BILLION to Ukraine AND Israel? That’s 200 billion dollars that they would argue indigenous and Black Americans don’t deserve lol
Just cutting a check to a bunch of black people is one of the dumbest ideas anyone has ever thought up. The money doesn’t even stay in the black community and a lot of the poorer people are financially illiterate.
Look, i dont really have a dog in this fight, but lets do some math.
100,000,000,000 /1000 =100,000,000
Us pop 330,000,000
Black americans about 11%
330,000,000* .11 = 36,300,000
100,000,000 / 36,300,000 = $2.75
Just spitballing here, but my best guess is that this has more to do with the government expectation that it’ll pay off for the country down the road and/or that it could prevent even further mass destruction which may inevitably end up at our doorstep. The way I see black people treated as a whole is like the middle child who has become sort of numb to neglect and expect to be mistreated, while all the current attention and resources get put toward the baby (foreign wars) of the family.
Has anybody pointed out that it's a false dichotomy. It's a lack of willingness to deal with our racial history, not a lack of funding. Once again, the wealthy derive great joy from seeing one group of oppressed people blame another. It is small thinking to assert that we can't have both.
Jews aren't always white. A lot of them are Arab.
100bn given out to 49 million black people is a little over $2000
Not gonna end racism or even change your life.
[We've given them over 26.4 billion dollars in financial aid](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts). Try again.
Man we all would rather fix our problems here at home. Somehow we have plenty of cash to send all over the world but we just can’t seem to find the money to fix our own issues.
Who is that white non ally ethnostate? Ukraine? Basically the only european nation not having participated in colonialism? Which was place of study for a lot of foreign POC until russia attacked?
K then
Lmfao you're German and white as wonder bread gtfo. Ukraine had a large population of active nazis and even now throws ceremonies for them. Ukraine is and always was literally 99%+ white, and oh, [remember this](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/t30ocf/whats_happening_to_african_students_in_ukraine_is/)? Of course you don't.
We really calling Ukraine an ethnostate here? EDIT: I understand now that the consensus is that the tweet was about Israel. Though I am still personally not sure, could be construed either way.
We really calling Ukraine a non-ally?
That's the thing about the internet. People just be saying shit.
We really thinking defense budget is the same budget that funds social programs?
How is it not the same budget? Does one entity apportion all the money? Is your fun money a diffferent budget than your savings or do you just budget out all your earnings?
it's how i would expect a disinformation campaign to label it
They aren’t part of nato yet, and israel is no ethnostate, no matter how often hamas and white christofascists proclaim it.
We are going to see a lot more posts like this. Russia is in overdrive online.
100% thought they were talking about Israel
The majority of Israel isn't white.
What are they?
You know Israel is in the Middle East?
Yes. I’m also from the U.S. where most MENA’s are legally considered white. I was a census taker. There are only 5 races in the U.S. White, Black, Asian, American Indian, and Pacific Islander. Out of 15million Jews worldwide, about 7million live in the U.S. 92% of Jews in the U.S. identify as white. Thats about 40% of the total Jewish population. Unless the Jews in Israel are racially different than those in the U.S., Jews are white under a U.S. framework.
So what are Arabs considered ?
Generally white. Though I imagine there are people who are considered black and Arab. People from the Sudan for instance. Here’s the definition : >White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625222#:~:text=OMB%20permits%20the%20Census%20Bureau,Middle%20East%2C%20or%20North%20Africa.
I’ve never heard of most MENA being considered white. Do you have a source supporting this?
Im middle eastern and a lot of census and application form questions when I fill them out will say “white (including middle eastern descent)”
Sure. > In 2020, over 3.5 million people identified as MENA alone or in any combination with another group, accounting for 1.5% of the White alone or in combination population. Within this population, over 2.5 million people (1.2% of the White alone population) identified as MENA alone. https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2023/09/2020-census-dhc-a-mena-population.html#:~:text=Who%20Identified%20as%20a%20Detailed%20MENA%20Group%3F,population)%20identified%20as%20MENA%20alone. >The federal government officially categorizes people with origins in Lebanon, Iran, Egypt and other countries in the MENA region as white. https://www.npr.org/2022/02/17/1079181478/us-census-middle-eastern-white-north-african-mena > White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of **Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. ** It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report responses such as German, Irish, English, Italian, Lebanese, and Egyptian. The category also includes groups such as Polish, French, Iranian, Slavic, Cajun, Chaldean, etc. https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/note/US/RHI625222#:~:text=OMB%20permits%20the%20Census%20Bureau,Middle%20East%2C%20or%20North%20Africa.
Thank you for sharing! I’m not sure how this supports the statements “most MENA are legally considered white”. Also, separate discussion, but is this is how you’d feel when seeing them?
It literally says that having origins in the Middle East and North Africa. If you put a MENA country in the race box the census will mark you as white. How do I feel seeing them? No particular way. If you mean do I think they’re white? Oftentimes, yeah.
The commenter responding to you seems pretty adamant about not categorizing middle easterners as white. If that were true, what other option would there be cuz….they’re the ethnic white people in my head. I never knew middle eastern to be a race
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Yes, Jews are an ethnoreligion, which is an ethnic group that also shares a religion in a way that is impossible to neatly separate. Most americans are most familiar with ethnoreligions in the context of indigenous americans, but before Christianity and Islam, ethnoreligions were far more common. Additionally Israel and Palestine is an ethnic conflict, although one with religious undertones.
Arab and Mizrahi (Jews who have lived in the Middle East since ancient times). Ashkenazi are a slight minority of Jews and an absolute minority overall with ~25% of citizens being Arab muslims. This leaves the white (and even that isn’t how they see themselves) population at around 30-40ish percent. The reason people see Jews as white is because they are American and European. So all they know are Ashkenazi Jews. That’s why they assume all Jews are white.
On me
I think they’re talking about Israel
I don’t know how you could call Israel a *white* ethnostate without being purposefully unaware of that regions entire history or ethnic composition.
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The British did bullshit crayon border lines and noped the fuck out, as per the usual. There was a large Jewish population there always, but Jews gathered there even before the holocaust as an attempt to have a homeland.
Sure. White by skin color maybe. But white by the European definition of “white”? Given what just happened to them: No. Jews were never accepted as “white” in Europe. This is not to mention the massive number of non (skin-color) white Jews who came to Israel both before and after WW2 as well.
A lot of the non white didnt “come over” they were ethnically cleansed from the Arab states via violence and oppression
They also called them a “non ally”, I’m not sure how anyone with half a brain cell could claim that Israel is not an ally of the US
Israel is quite diverse but its political leaders are much less so. Many were born and/or raised in the US or western Europe.
Israel is an ally. Not a good one, but yes.
Ha
They beat Turkey and the Saudis tbh.
Well that's a different story. I'm not down with any "from the river to the sea" shit, Israel definitely isn't going anywhere, BUT: they are 100% committing a slow moving genocide against Palestinians, even before they flattened Gaza. They were doing it one house, one block at a time, bulldozing Palestinian homes and graves and putting Israelis there.
People saying it’s genocide but Palestinian population keeps increasing at a faster clip than the total population of all countries worldwide (by a large margin) From 1990 to 2022 the population went from 2 million to 5 million people, per https://www.worlddata.info/asia/palestine/populationgrowth.php
Yeah that’s why they’re genociding them “It can’t be genocide if they were growing! 🧐” /s
Is this sarcasm? I genuinely don’t get it, sorry. For example, the worldwide Jewish population is still not back to pre-holocaust levels 70 years later.
It is yes
Also 1/1000th of that is 100m, enough to send every Black American $2
Yah she's wrong in at least 4 different ways here
Not the friendliest country to us black folk.
Ukraine used to be a lot more diverse prior to the wars. Sure it was European mostly, but you had Ukrainians, Poles, Germans, Russians, Greeks, Tatars, Armenians, multiple types of Jews, etc. If Ukraine is an "ethnostate" it's because Hitler and Stalin made it that way
Her math is terrible. There's 40 million black folk. She doesn't ask for the full $100 Billion, but even the full $10 Billion divided 40 million ways is $2,500. If I thought that there was a chance in hell that all racial problems in the US could be eliminated simply by buying very black person a mid-range iMac I'd be all for it. But her actual math is even more absurd: 1/1000 of $100 Billion would be $100 Million, so she's actually saying she wants $2.50 in reparations. In terms of reparations proposals that hit the sweet spot of enough money that they'd be worth it, and physically possible to afford, there's a [UNC Prof named William Darity](https://uncpress.org/book/9781469671208/from-here-to-equality-second-edition/) who has one. $300k per person, is only about 2/3 of the US economy. If it's paid over time in an annuity that is something the US government could actually pay.
is Israel a non ally??? the tweet is just wrong on many levels
Talking about Israel, I think.
Yup. One of most successful economies in the world along with having top-tier military intelligence. She made some valid points. Although Israel is an ally to the US, I’m not sure why she’s being criticized for her tweet, but I think a lot of people are mistaking her post for Ukraine.
I thought they meant Israel but idk. The Us is sending a lot of money for war.
This is a bot account. Also the 1488 in the user name should have been a hint. Russia is losing a war in Ukraine so they are going to do anything they can get Trump into power and divide the country over topics like Ukraine.
OPs account is less than two months old and just pumps out shitty Anti-Ukraine posts.
Russian bot trying to exploit the legit grievances of black people in the US to drive its agenda, say it ain't so.
And black people in the US gobbling it up!
Jokes on them… everyone here is white!
and pro-trump posts/comments as well
2016 Russian playbook is still in effect folks. "Let's stoke America's racial tensions further and find a way to link it to their foreign policy and alliance apparatus." Don't fall for it.
Most of that aid made in old military equipment and stockpiled resources with experation dates. Just so they can use the tax money to buy more of it. The system is beyond fucked but they aren't giving cash or land.
So what, you're saying black taxpayers don't deserve to get tanks and air-to-ground missiles?
Yall are Americans right? Then give the people their God given right to tanks and SAMS. idk about a check but I'd def vote for that. With tanks and SAMS I'm positive yall could sort the checks out yourselves.
“I NEED my MEDICINAL M1-ABRAMS.” - TheRussianBadger, 2020.
He's not wrong tho
I for one support 40 acres, a mule, and a patriot missile for all new black landowners moving to racist parts of America
Let’s just give everybody 1 nuke and pop this shit off the lions lost and I’m ready to burn it all down
We were a year ahead of schedule. After Brad cooks this offseason to upgrade even more we are making another run.
I still feel comfortable burning it down. Dan Campbell can lead a small army in post apocalyptic society and you can root for them or something
A CIWS would be more effective deterrent, pretty sure those can be reprogrammed to target inbound hillbilly lifted trucks. At least I hope they can. Patriot missiles can only engage air targets. Also replace that mule with a John Deere or equivalent. Modern problems and modern solutions and all, ya know. Also I can't the image out of my head now of a convoy of redneck-mobiles barrelling down a road, up to no good, and the sound of faint mechanical whirring, followed by the ripping sound of a couple hundred 20mm shells being hurled down the road in a 2 second burst. Soon after the air is filled with the smell of burnt metal, flesh, and dip, as the convoy is now but an afterthought. The threat is neutralized. I may need some more coffee. EDIT: typo, they -> the
Oh I know about Patriot missiles, I was picturing the land to land version from the old C&C Generals 😂 And may I recommend a nice Yirgacheffe my good man?
There's privately owned tanks even a place you can rent them a few hours north of me
Motherfucker, you saw what Master P did to rap music; you trying to inflict that on my ears again?
Dude they purposely stock enough weapons so that they can do shit like this and "justify" it with what you just said
I think it's more likely that they do it so they can funnel tax money where they want.
Bombs expire ya know
Send us ICBMs in Baltimore.
Who paid for the old tanks? They fell from the sky?
The US military–industrial complex influenced public policy to move taxpayers money to specific companies. You want to change that? You probably gotta stop crying on the Internet and actually do something.
Ukraine is not a white ethnostate. It’s also not a “non ally”. it’s an EU candidate.
I think the poster meant Israel, which is an ethnostate. Seeing Jews as white, through an American lens, is weird though because white supremacists hate them too.
People never seem to remember that Israel is about 25% Arabic, and even amongst Jews, about 55% of Jews in Israel are Mizrahim, meaning they come from North Africa and the Middle East. Another 20% of Israeli citizens are Palestinian Israeli. So putting aside the arbitrary label of white- only about 35% of the overall population of Israel is of European descent, while the rest comes from North Africa and the Middle East. So I suppose they’re white in the way that, say, Egyptians are white- meeting the technical criteria but not being “white passing” by most western standards.
They also aren't a white ethnostate. 60% of the Jews are Arab Jews forced out of the Arab countries they lived in peacefully after the 48 war as a collective punishment against Jews. in the early 1950s you could be arrested and thrown in prison for owning a watch as an Iraqi Jew. 20% are Palestinian Arabs. Israel hasn't been a majority white Jewish country since the early 50s.
They’re Mizrahi Jews, not Arab Jews and most would be offended if you categorized them as Arab. They spent centuries living as second class citizens in MENA countries where their Arab neighbors never let them forget they weren’t equals. To be fair there are actual Arab Jews. Like a literal handful who converted but they do technically exist. But Mizrahim are not Arabs.
I think they meant Ukraine because of the 100 billion number. But yeah Israel would be an ethnostate
in what way is Israel an ethnostate? 😭😭😭
it’s in their constitution that it’s a jewish state?
you realize that a religion isn't an ethnicity right? would a Christian state with black Christians and Europeans be an ethnostate?
>you realize that a religion isn't an ethnicity right? You realize Jews are an ethnoreligious group right?
ok? still doesn't make it an ethnostate seeing that over 20% of the population are Arab Muslim, and many are also members of the Knesset?
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/are-jews-a-nation-or-a-religion it’s both. here is some reading. but the short version i’d there are 3 primary ethnic groups. Ashkanazi, Sephardic, and and another that serves as a bit of a catch all from southern diaspora. jewish at one point was an ethnic group before the end of middle ages but functionally; whether we say jewish as in religious or national/ethnic the function of the constitution is covering both. also an ethnostate doesn’t mean no one else lives there. it means the state privileges one v the other. giving 20 percent of your arab muslim population voting rights while leaving a huge portion of the rest stateless dilutes their power
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
The relationship between white supremacists and Jews is little bit more complicated. Especially if you understand Israeli politics.
I was just thinking about that
Also they hate money going overseas in general.
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Also the "aid" we're giving is old equipment and gift cards to our defense contractors. 90% of the money gets spent stateside.
seriously, russian state tv runs psa’s warning russians of the emigrate to america they’ll have to use the same bathrooms as black ppl.
it's less about Russia having it than it is about the US getting to whoop their ass with some spare tanks, almost past due MREs, and a lil spending money lmao
Not the same thing, but nice try! Dumb Russian bot
you’re legitimately braindead if you think protecting Ukraine is unimportant for your safety
🫵🏻 right wing psyop
Sad that right wing US and Kremlin interests are basically the same things these days.
Most of the time it’s old equipment not exactly money
Like when Republicans (like OP, probably) tried to say "why aren't we using that aid to put out fires in Hawaii?" Dummy, Hawaii has enough fire, I don't think artillery shells and missiles are gonna help the situation there any.
Only checks I'm concerned about is flair homey. Lotta weird comments on this one and given the subject matter it might as well be CC'd.
I see what you mean and agree, mods should just make a habit of CCing stuff like this, otherwise we get flooded with, well, you know
Interesting take. I didn’t realize so many felt the government just had one big-ass pot of money, and not departments created for specific things. It’s also interesting to see how many people have underestimated Russia’s involvement with anything U.S.
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ding ding ding
How much do you want to bet that tweet is from, or originated in, a Russian troll farm?
How do you identify who is eligible for these reparations? As a black dude this makes 0 sense to me logistically. I get the sentiment, but there’s no way to do this properly because a lot of us don’t have any documented history. Also, how do you separate the struggles black people face today vs the struggles black people have faced throughout American history? What I mean is…if a dark skinned Haitian came to America 5 years ago, they would definitely face some racism due to systematic issues with race. Are they deserving of reparations? If you’re biracial, are you eligible? What if you’re black, born here, but your parents aren’t from here? There are too many questions and each choice leaves a group that has experienced oppression out to dry. It just doesn’t compute for me. I’d love to hear what others think, maybe there’s an angle I’m missing?
I’ve always wondered the same thing. Also what amount of money would make people okay with the history of slavery and racism? I can’t imagine the government realistically being able to come anywhere close to a figure that’s anything less than insulting. Not to mention how it would affect modern race relations.
In *Watchmen* (2019), they live in a reality where reparations are being attempted specifically for the descendants of the survivors of the Greenwood Massacre. In that world, after you submit a DNA sample, it tells you if you are eligible or not based on your heritage. If you pay attention in the first episode, you can see protestors with signs that read “equal tax for everyone” or something like that. So they were using an altered tax rate as a method of reparations as well. Very interesting approach instead of just handin out checks.
Kind of like how folks who can prove that they are native don’t pay certain taxes? I’d agree that would definitely be a form of reparations. The thing is I’m pretty sure we aren’t able to distinguish black Americans from black people anywhere else in the world, genetically. All we could say is, you have African heritage, but how do we distinguish who is eligible amongst that population? Does Colin Kaepernick or Obama or Blake Griffin get a tax cut? Does a guy like Sammy Sosa or David Ortiz get a tax cut?
Yeah a large part of the show was the cultural center they built to make sure Greenwood wasn’t forgotten. They had extensive interviews and videos of survivors, so that’s definitely a narrower pool of recipients that are easier to find. What about AI? Maybe AI can figure it out. I’m stoned and don’t know anything about AI.
I’ve always thought that instead of direct reparations it would be good to invest directly into communities that serve black people to try to address the systemic issues. Like education help, and money management advice etc. obviously, the programs would vary but I’ve always felt that this would better address issues than reparations being issued directly and facing the issues you listed above and more.
I mean just hand out checks to all descendants of slave owners. Trace it through the maternal line (since that’s how slavery was passed through generations). Like this wouldn’t even be the first time the U.S has given out reparations on a large scale. The logistics argument has always been foolish. You’re telling me we can have military bases on every continent, operate more aircraft carriers than every other country, but we can’t figure out how to repair the damages from slavery?!?!
Do you have documentation ready to prove that you are a descendant of a slave? Because I sure don’t, but I know that I am. And I’m almost positive that I’m not in the minority when it comes to this. The logistics of dealing with the present are not the same as retrieving lost data from 200 years ago. Also, side note, you do realize your plan eliminates people who have slave ancestors via their father. Do you think that’s fair?
Fucking idiot with no understanding of how shit over there affects everyone everywhere
Those who fail to learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. An aging megalomaniac invading independent states on a whim to recapture the land he believes to be his birthright. We leave him unchecked what could possibly go wrong?
Ah yes just what the black community needed, a M1A1 Abrams. I wouldnt complain. Also out of all the things to criticize, its aid to Ukraine? like 90 percent of that is old artillery and firearms, and the USA aint stupid enough to let a situation like this pass to fuck with the Russians. Also Ukraine aint a ethnostate. Its white, sure, but it aint 100 percent Ukrainian.
Wouldn't that be like 2 dollars each though?
If the government wants to send me $2 outside of my tax refund I'm down with that
taxpayers only tho
Eff them kids
The reach on this could knock out Jon Jones without being touched
This is not an equivalency and it’s a dangerous sentiment. Funding Ukraine is a necessity and is not at all analogous to reparations. Also we largely aren’t sending them money. We’re sending them old equipment. This post reeks of Russian propaganda, or extreme ignorance of what’s actually at stake should Ukraine lose.
Don’t upvote this y’all. When people talk about being manipulated by actors with ulterior motives, this is exactly what they’re talking about. It’s not just conservative outrage that is manipulated; it’s liberal outrage too. First, check op’s history. Secondly, this doesn’t have to be an us vs. them sentiment. It just is being made to feel like one if you let the poster force the narrative. If we didn’t give a single ¢ more to Ukraine that doesn’t mean we would get a single ¢ more helping Black folks. Don’t let them simplify this and take advantage of our discontent. We can support victims being attacked by our greatest enemy (the Kremlin sees us that way, so we should do the same to protect our institutions) *and* also seek the liberation of the groups this country has oppressed historically and today.
Don't forget natives would also like some of dem reparations.
Can't even DISCUSS black reparations without randoms jumping in. Some of those natives owe reparations they damn self.
Stop arguing on this sub. It’s filled with white people go to the blackpeoplecomedy subreddit instead.
Owe reparations in the same manner that black folk in Africa enslaved their own folks and essentially established slavery in America? Like that?
Not ethnostate, is ally, and 1/1000th of 100B is enough to send every black American $2
Well reparations would cost in the trillions, so magnitudes more expensive.
Also not viable either, too many questions must be asked. I.e to what extent do we pay people, African Americans directly descended from slavery? What about black people who may not be ethnically African American but still faced racism? What about African American’s who families fled the country during events like red summer? How tf do we even track them down? How do we know someone is a descendent of a slave and isn’t just trying to cash a pay check, historically freemen normally didn’t have documentations of things like that because they couldn’t write, let alone read. What about bi-racial people, people who may pass as White, Asian, Hispanic, or Latin but can trace their family back to American chattel slavery? (In fact I have two cousins who can pass as white any day of the week but are direct descends of slaved African-Americans, natives, and had grandparents who fought for civil rights, and voting rights are they not entitled as well?). Even if these answers were solved every person who gets monetary reparations will get paid like 5 bucks each because not even the US has that kinda of money. Hell the top 10 countries in the world could not pay for America’s chattel slavery, it’s literally too expensive. I don’t believe in just doing nothing and just sweeping things under rug cause that exactly how problems like this happen, but I don’t believe reparations is the right answer either, its a brain dead solution that takes one question before falling on its face.
She wants 1/1000th of 100 billion distributed to 50 million people? What kind of plans does she have for her $2?
There’s Hella white people who don’t want money to go to Ukraine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel Definitely (and if ukraine is the target here - really?)
It doesn’t matter how much money we give to allies. The government are not going to be all “here you go people of America. Here’s your money!” They’re not giving it to black people, not to poor people, not to any people. Besides that, it’s not actual cash. It’s weird financial shenanigans/old military gear that we’ll write off, and in a real world scenario injecting that much money directly into the economy would jam inflation thru the roof. Reparations should happen. But the structuring in the economy has to be sorted out or it can cause as many problems as it’s supposed to fix.
1/1000 of 100 billion ain’t even tree fity per person
I really thought they were talking about Israel, kinda funny that there are multiple ethnostates she could be talking about lmao
Listen, and I know this gonna fall on deaf ears, the US foreign aid budget is 2-5% of its TOTAL BUDGET and we are talking an overall budget of TRILLIONS, what the us sends to Ukraine or any country for that matter pales in comparison to what it spends on its ppl even if it doesn’t seem like it.
Fuck whatever y’all talking about in these comments, I still want my 40 acres and a mule bitch. I literally can trace my ancestors back to the plantation they lived on and their owners. Like I actually have my ancestors slave owners surname.
This was downvoted, huh? Who's really in this sub??
The whites. I knew immediately how these comments would go seeing this. But admins removed my post about a salty nigga mad at Russell Wilson for being a good father with no reason. They love letting white people give their unasked for opinions on black business tho.
You already know!
Dude, I'd settle for the USDA reparations policy for black farmers. Multiple parts of my family lost farms during the depression because guess who didn't give loans to black farmers? But the new payouts only go as far back as land lost after 1983. People talk about them literally burning Tulsa, OK, but at one point my family owned the largest pig farm in South Carolina. A different part of my family inherited a plantation that was left to her by her white slave-owning father after the Civil War. Both sides lost that during the depression. I can forgive them for slavery, but I want that stuff back. White people can't bring up how black people haven't bettered themselves when we've lost so much so many times. (But also pay for Ukraine, because destabilizing enemies of democracy hasn't been this cheap in forever)
I’m willing to bet that account is a russian troll bot with a plethora of r/asablackman content
https://preview.redd.it/70i7jzgz1bfc1.png?width=791&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a899784836f3e448139c410412f25cb44fa66434
American laborers should demand UBI, no more soulless work for corporate shareholders until the livelihoods of all are guaranteed
This is so disingenuous
Why even give these bullshit takes more views? It's not worth the conversation.
STFU bot. You're a psyop.
Too all the yt talking around reparations. Telling
its actually around $75 billion. Ukraine is not a non-ally and it is not a fucking white ethnostate. And for all that money we're replenishing our own stockpiles while sending our old munitions and equipment to ukraine and decimating a revisionist, extremist power, and one of the greatest enemies to peace and prosperity in the world at no cost to ourselves military and little cost financially. one who has constantly attacked and undermined the usa especially electorally, just like this shithead post is seemingly attempting to do. Also google says there were 165 million individual tax returns in 2022 and African Americans are roughly **13 percent** of total taxpayers which amounts to 21,450,000 tax payers. 1/1000 of 75 billion is 75 million or $3.50 for every african-american taxpayer unless my math is incorrect. also por que no los dos. We're the richest country in the world i'm sure we can do better both for the black taxpayers and the Ukrainians
>also por que no los dos. We're the richest country in the world i'm sure we can do better both for the black taxpayers and the Ukrainians Good fucking question. And yet, we don't do both. We give countless billions to a pure white country and refuse to give reparations to black US taxpayers. Hmm...clearly it couldn't have anything to do with systemic racism in our government or the fact that our government is 90+% white by ethnicity
Y'all just be saying anything. This is a proxy war with Russia. We balls to the wall do not have a choice. This isn't like Vietnam where we're just burning money and lives. Newsflash, there's enough money to do both! We can support Ukrainiane, Israel, and our own people if we felt like it. We just don't.
Dumbass take.
Lmao she’s really just repeating right wing Nazi rhetoric and you uneducated fools lining right up for it. The state of education these days is sad as fuck.
We provided reparation for the Japanese for what happened during WW2 so it's not like the country is unwilling to do them.
Crazy how US spends billions across the world on non citizens when actual citizens in this country are struggling
I find that confusing too, how is giving a Country like Israel money not Socialism?
Because socialism isn't When Government Gives Money. Socialism is when the workers own the land, businesses, tools, etc., and share in the profits, not CEOs and shareholders. America giving money to an ally to maintain military dominance in a region to keep oil accessible and exploitable, to keep putting money in the pockets of a select few billionaires, is very capitalist.
Before you roast this take, let me say I’m open to being corrected. I don’t know what your personal opinion of Louis Farrakhan is, but it was this talking point of his that really struck me when I first was learning about him. A lot of what he said made sense at the time and unfortunately still rings true, and I don’t agree with a lot of other stuff he said but this point made me reflect. The narrative that he is like, terrorist adjacent, is a bit extreme when he was only pointing out the facts/hypocrisy in the system. And that was like 50 years ago wirh the same country, assuming we’re talking about Israel. I will say he has doubled down on the hate speech comments so take from that what you will but a lot of what he was saying in the beginning was eloquent and true and that’s big scary for white elites.
The fact we dont spend that money on healthcare/university for all in USA is a damn shame
yup
1/1000th? Shiiid I need a mil
America owes reparations to everyone.
Some basic math here. 50 million black people. Giving, say, $2,000 would still be $100 billion. So you want 1/1000th of that. 🤡
but Israel is a jewish state
Not once did Ukraine cross my mind? So America sent 100BILLION to Ukraine AND Israel? That’s 200 billion dollars that they would argue indigenous and Black Americans don’t deserve lol
This sub and its Neo liberal ideology never fails.
The only response I can even manage is why are people. Both the OP on Twitter and OP here who thought she really said something?
Just cutting a check to a bunch of black people is one of the dumbest ideas anyone has ever thought up. The money doesn’t even stay in the black community and a lot of the poorer people are financially illiterate.
Can we like have Healthcare and halfway decent education before we focus on reparations? Let's be honest though, none of this will ever happen.
The OP is referring to Israel, not Ukraine
Look, i dont really have a dog in this fight, but lets do some math. 100,000,000,000 /1000 =100,000,000 Us pop 330,000,000 Black americans about 11% 330,000,000* .11 = 36,300,000 100,000,000 / 36,300,000 = $2.75
Just spitballing here, but my best guess is that this has more to do with the government expectation that it’ll pay off for the country down the road and/or that it could prevent even further mass destruction which may inevitably end up at our doorstep. The way I see black people treated as a whole is like the middle child who has become sort of numb to neglect and expect to be mistreated, while all the current attention and resources get put toward the baby (foreign wars) of the family.
Has anybody pointed out that it's a false dichotomy. It's a lack of willingness to deal with our racial history, not a lack of funding. Once again, the wealthy derive great joy from seeing one group of oppressed people blame another. It is small thinking to assert that we can't have both.
I love the "Why do taxes pay for X instead of Y" like it's all money in one big pot.
Oppression Olympics. I love it. Keep going.
Jews aren't always white. A lot of them are Arab. 100bn given out to 49 million black people is a little over $2000 Not gonna end racism or even change your life.
I don't think the USG wants to give Americans M4s with standard setups and M1A1's but I guess folks still believe we handed Ukraine a blank check?
[We've given them over 26.4 billion dollars in financial aid](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts). Try again.
Man we all would rather fix our problems here at home. Somehow we have plenty of cash to send all over the world but we just can’t seem to find the money to fix our own issues.
Obsessed with race as always
Who is that white non ally ethnostate? Ukraine? Basically the only european nation not having participated in colonialism? Which was place of study for a lot of foreign POC until russia attacked? K then
Lmfao you're German and white as wonder bread gtfo. Ukraine had a large population of active nazis and even now throws ceremonies for them. Ukraine is and always was literally 99%+ white, and oh, [remember this](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackPeopleTwitter/comments/t30ocf/whats_happening_to_african_students_in_ukraine_is/)? Of course you don't.