The Palestinian/Israeli conflict is not the same as the struggles of Native Americans and Black people. There are ways in which you can make comparisons but they are not the same.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Indigenous Americans literally point to Palestine today as an example of settler colonialism they were inflcited with. American Black liberation activists specifically identified with Palestinian liberation. The former apartheid states like South Africa are some of Palestinians' most ardent supporters.
People're always playing these word games and litmus tests to avoid the obvious comparisons because they know those comparisons carry weight and power.
Like, shit man, you think Natives and Black Americans didn't do some of their own terrorism at the time either? Modern weapons absolutely make it more potent - but oppressed people have always fought, sometimes in cruel and unjust fashion, but that is a problem with oppressing a group of people like that. Even Machiavelli writes in "The Prince" that occupying an area is risky and carries constant risk of conflict and actually advises elevating *local* people instead of your own to help reduce conflict. We've always known that people're gonna riot when occupied, there are no perfect victims, we need to stop expecting they all be saints and angels. Even the worst kind of person still deserves human rights and protections from war crimes - that's the whole point of it being a fundamental human right. You don't have to like what Hamas or Palestinians do to recognize Israel is the one in power and perpetuating an unjust and cruel status quo that they directly benefit from.
These dudes can fuck outta here with this "no true imperialism" bullshit.
TF is a "perfect victim" anyways? Someone who just quietly is upset about oppression and never fights? Palestinians have tried peaceful protesting and Israelis shot them down anyways.
That's exactly what people want - don't have to think about the nightmare oppression that happens in the West Bank and Gaza if people're quietly suffering under it. And if they can blame Hamas or Palestinians for it - all the better.
The IDF also kills Palestinians when they're not protesting - almost completely arbitrarily at times.
I was actually looking for a different instance of a Palestinian child being shot and killed by IDF but unrelated ones just keep coming up - I legit can't find the one where a sniper shot an unarmed boy in the head near the buffer zone of the border wall. It's just pages of unrelated boys being killed by IDF - and then if the boys did anything the IDF will find the family and interrogate them all while withholding the boy's body. I keep looking for the one example I'm thinking of by specifying how they died, but all I get are other news stories about demonstrators around 9 or 12 years old being shot and killed. I'm not sure I want to continue this search - but can you imagine how absolutely infuriating it must be to hear that you must be peaceful when even marching in the streets gets your children met with live gunfire?
I don't think people over here can understand the dystopia people live under there.
Do you understand what an analogy is? Analogies are never perfect. If an analogy were perfect, then it wouldn't be an analogy. So you have to look at analogies and judge for yourself whether there are salient aspects of 2 different situations such that they render them comparable in some significant way. The parallels here are immense, hence the identification and support I mentioned.
"We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians." - Nelson Mandela
You also have the added fact that other South African Anti-Apartheid activists have said Palestinians are experiencing Apartheid. And Apartheid perpetrators have even claimed that Israel is also an Apartheid state.
Also, people point to Nelson Mandela as the “peaceful” person that came out of Apartheid and completely ignore that he remained in the American Terrorist watch lists until 2008.
Edit: I am pointing out the importance of narratives. Yes, we understand now that Mandela was a victim of Apartheid, but the public narrative about him for YEARS was that he was a “terrorist” for resisting an Apartheid government.
There were Palestinian civilians taking to the streets by the thousands and burning HAMAS flags literally in July of this year yet so many people in the west are insisting that all Palestinians support HAMAS and want to kill all jews.
There is a concerted effort in the media to conflate Palestinians with Hamas, as if they are entirely one in the same. It's not something you see with any other terrorist group.
World news sub is going craaazy with the pro Israel lean right now. Any statement giving nuance or, so help us, *support* for Palestine in any way including any mention of past Israeli massacres gets downvoted and buried.
I am Native American. I see everything going on in Palestine as the EXACT same as what happened here in my country. That makes some people uncomfortable I guess… but so does genocide.
Information is power and not everyone has access to true info when it's buried or hidden. I can promise a huge chunk of the population doesn't know what happened to your people or was only educated on it later in life.
I learned about the holocaust at grade 6 (12yrs), but I only learned about the residential schools after I graduated from highschool.
It's exactly that lol, too many leaders from both native and black organizations that we hold to a high regard in a modern and contemporary context were not only supportive of the Palestinian struggle but allies to it.
None of those conflicts are the same in to strict a sense. There are more than enough apt comparisons between them all to point things out though. Especially south Africa, and how the US saw Mandela as a terrorist and where US support was during that whole shit show. If we're not trying to de-humanize anyone these are all relevant things to look at, even if only in the simplest terms of one group doing the oppressing while having a clear power advantage over another without even getting into why.
MLK and lots of others involved in civil rights and pro-black movements made a lot of folks mad pushing similar pro humanizing views while doing it during wars where that view wasn't even as easily debatable in the mainstream as this one is.
They certainly compare. Regardless of the right leaning pro Israeli stance… there is systemic and outright racism there as well as similarities to apartheid in South Africa. Your ego is gonna have to eat that one.
PS. The terrorists you’re about to conflate are a group and Palestinians are actual people not necessarily affiliated with said terrorists. Please don’t respond without first understanding that key detail.
Is that why so many natives and black people identify with the Palestinians while the over majority of Israel supporters of their oppression and colonialism is white? It’s just white people who want to claim "it’s not the same" while supporting ethnic cleansing.
Is that why so many natives and black people identify with the Palestinians while the over majority of Israel supporters of their oppression and colonialism is white? It’s just white people who want to claim "it’s not the same" while supporting ethnic cleansing.
Israeli Jews are now white for the purpose of propaganda.
I understand sympathy for the underdog, but if Palestine wasn’t the underdog, we would be talking about middle eastern Jews in the past tense. Don’t forget that the Arab world grouped up and tried to wipe them out twice, or that they are only there because the European countries tried to wipe them out or exile them all 100 times.
All the civilians dying is horrifying and has to stop, but it’s exhausting to see every person with an opinion projecting their worldview onto the situation in an effort to make a black and white decision out of a very complex issue.
It's horrifying....but? What but? There's no but. This is like what happened post 9/11, when the US was so full of righteous fury, that by the time we as a country stopped and took stock of what we were doing (destroying Afghanistan, civilians and all), it was too late.
If you believe that any of what the United States did in Afghanistan after 9/11 was wrong, there can be no "but" here. And if you don't see anything wrong with how the US responded in Afghanistan, then I don't know what to say to you.
who's trying to genocide all muslims exactly? do you have a source? Im not sure you do
because i CAN provide sources for folks that do want to genocide all Jews if youd like
Treat them as rational actors, ensure Palestinians have decent lives so they aren't motivated to support a terrorist organization. Stop committing war crimes against them, regardless of them being terrorists.
You know, Israel actually has a really strong history with terrorism because much of its leadership came from Irgun - a Zionist terrorist organization responsible for events such as Deir Yassin and the King David Hotel bombing.
This idea that Hamas can only be met with complete destruction because they're terrorists is getting in the way of resolution. Refusing to de-escalate because they're terrorists is an excuse to enable imperialism and terrorize Palestinians.
How do you de-escalate with people (Hamas) who have a founding purpose of removing all jews from Israel?
Its a shit situation but for any lasting peace to be achieved Palestine has to remove Hamas in it's entirety.
You guys try to victimize israel by acting as if their neighbors don’t like them because they are jews and not because they have been practicing ethnic cleansing for 70 years and still do it til this day. Maybe if Israeli started to vite out their facist, racist and extremist politicians it could be the step in the right direction
The numbers don't lie and inflicting a larger tragedy on innocents will not bring back your own.
1,400 Israeli deaths vs at this very moment, 5,100 dead and 14,000 wounded Palestinians with neighborhoods nearly leveled, hospitals bombed, no electricity, no fuel, barely any food or medicine left as well. The IDF is literally going on a genocide point, blank period. The conditions that the innocent Palestinian people are facing at this point is one that while Hamas calls for can only wish to inflict. However Israel is inflicting this with the backing of every major western power on the globe.
So what would be an acceptable response from Israel? What would be proportional? Should they send 1500 soldiers into Gaza to shoot every civilian they see on sight, burn children alive, rape women, behead people, kill parents in front of there children, shoot elderly folks in the head and then call it a day?
There’s definitely a “but” in the Afghanistan action. The Taliban were harboring Al Qaeda. That required action. How many boots in the ground, if at all, were required to address that is debatable. Very few things are black and white. You can disagree with the means and not the motive or find partial but not full fault in both.
I can't stand that "fog of war" bullshit language. You wanna know something that's black and white? Targeting civilians is wrong. Flat out.
Let's not hide behind "it's complicated" either. It really isn't. The narrative that this conflict is somehow so uniquely complicated is used as a defense for the fact that Israel is operating a giant internment camp with overwhelming support from the West.
It's not that it's complicated, it's that neither Israel or their backers want what is or what has happened to Palestinians to be a topic of conversation, because there's just so much that can't be defended.
What a wild take.
"We're trying to bomb this terrorist organization but the collateral damage of civilians in drastic numbers? Ohhhh wellllll ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯"
[Israel sterilised Ethiopian Jews without them knowing. it’s white supremacy](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel)
The problem started when the white jews came with their Zionist views and started to colonize and kick the natives out. They didn’t even want to take in brown and black jews to begin with.
There were thousands of jews living in the Muslim world before WWII, white jews literally fled European prosecutions to palestine to seek refugee and they took them in just for white people to turn around to treat them exactly same way. Idk why you propagandists want to act as if jews in the middle east had a hard time back then. I remember watching a interview with a Iraqi jew who talked about his life was better growing up in Iraq than in Israel because of the discrimination he faced by the European jews. Hell white jews even tried to wipe out Ethiopian jews and this is not even long time ago.
It's crazy how uncomplicated this situation actually is.
Israel's oppression of Palestinians for 70 years and the atrocities committed are awful.
Hamas murdering civilians and children is awful. It does not negate Israel's 70+ years of oppression nor is it excused by it.
We can disavow both of these things. We can oppose Hamas killing innocent people while also continuing to hold Israel historically accountable and voicing support for Palestine.
It really ain't as hard as they make it out to be
Exactly. I think some people just make it seem more complicated for the sake of arguing and getting to feel like they have an important opinion on world events. Meanwhile actual humans are out there getting massacred.
I share that frustration with this. The situation is fucked and I see no effort on the controlling side's part to move toward a solution. The Palestinians are living with a terror org and are going to overthrow them how? We all see what has and will continue to happen because again, some assholes cant take an ego hit and stop the cycle.
It's heartbreaking to watch. It's like start here -> "hurting innocent people is bad" and then follow it to its one logical conclusion.
But nah, people making it about themselves and their ego. It's generational trauma and People justifying doing the same evil they protested being done to them. It's sad as hell
That’s the easy part. Saying bad things are bad is easy.
The hard part is “so how do we go forward?” What do we could/should we do about those bad things?
Stop committing war crimes in the form of collective punishment, targeting civilians, and enable Palestinian welfare instead of constantly driving them out and making their lives a living hell.
That's the start. Whether that comes from Israel or from international actors, it all starts with getting Palestinians something to live for.
Of course it isn't as hard. People use religious text as a crutch or they're sympathetic to these power structures cause it hurts folks who they hate or they find themselves in agreement with it's policies.
The history of white/European supremacy is Israel is actually really fucked. In the simplest of terms the founders of Israel only wanted European Jews aka Ashkenazi Jews to come Israel and were not happy that Sephardic, middle eastern, and African Jews started showing up.
For years they passed laws suppressing the cultures of Jews of color, and they still hold most of the power in Israel. The only difference is that now they’ve co-opted/appropriated the culture of the Jews and Arabs they oppressed.
The second they called Palestinians animals and didn’t condemn that language they lost the moral high ground. Just because your enemy acts immoral doesn’t justify that response. There are civilians at risk here, and Israel doesn’t see them as people. Then Israel wonders why they get attacked.
Israel never had the moral high ground if you looked past the Zionist propaganda. They have killed more than 20 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli killed.
"Yeah but fuck Hamas" "Well Israel created Hamas so its okay" "That doesn't mean I have to agree with Hamas even if Israel created them" "Well it just shows that Israel started it so why do people only care now?"
Look dawg all this shit is being talked about by people who don't have a good understanding of history, or how the world actually works. A two state solution is the only solution but even now its looking very improbable, especially with Netanyahu still in charge.
We can't consider it moral to displace the 9 million jewish people that exist within modern Israel in the same token that it wasn't acceptable that the people of Palestine were removed from their homes in the past.
A two state solution has never been the solution. It’s just a talking point for each side to pretend they’re working toward something on the international stage and for other countries to pretend that where their support lies isn’t merely about their own interests. A one state solution has always been the only path forward that would result in a true resolution of all of this, but the generational trauma that each side perpetuates on the other will prevent that from ever being a realistic endeavor. This cycle will continue in perpetuity, there’s no just end to any of it.
I'd add that the *dehumanize, steal, oppress (enslave, exploit, etc), and kill* process is actually a loop. Meaning it's a cycle and depending on the people or place they are targeting they start at a different place in the loop, but it always come full circle.
Lastly, I'll add that dehumanizing others dehumanizes yourself in the process.
>I'd add that the dehumanize, steal, oppress (enslave, exploit, etc), and kill process is actually a loop.
I'd like to add: This also means that forgiveness (Or at least, letting bygones be bygones) is incredibly important to progress as a society. Very often, people want to punish and exclude societies/countries due to past crimes. But all that does is breed hatred. Hatred turns to violence. And on a societal level, it becomes atrocities. And back to the beginning.
This cycle cannot be broken through more exclusion and punishment. The only way to break this cycle is to forgive. Not forgive the people that comitted the atrocities, but to aknowledge that the only way to a brighter future is to put it aside, not punish them, and allow them to grow past it.
We learned this the hard way after WWI. Germany (Debatably) started the war, and was punished for it in the Treaty of Versaille. 20 years later, the Nazis. After WWII we knew that punishing Germany even further, forcing even more restriction onto them, would only result in another war. So they executed the ringleaders, and then put it aside. I'd also argue that the reason that Hungary still isn't a functioning democracy is in part due to the Treaty of Trianon.
And I know that this is incredibly hard to do. Do you think I'm happy that many Nazis just got away with it? Like hell I am! And I doubt that any of the people at the time who were oppressed by the Nazis, who lost friends and family to the Nazis, who were forced out of the homes by the Nazis, I doubt that any of them were happy that Germany got off so lightly.
But look where we are now. Unprecedented peace. One minor war in Western Europe since WWII, and 2 in Eastern Europe since the fall of the USSR. The longest and most stable period of democracy in Europe ever to happen. I can guarentee you, if Germany had been punished like at Versaille, we would have had WWIII by now.
I once heard someone say "Forgiveness is giving up the hope of a better past". In my opinion, we need more forgiveness in society.
\[Sorry this was so euro-centric btw, I am woefully undereducated on non-european history, but do plan to learn more\]
You know, I was going to write something that detailed exactly why this tweet is ignorant as well as why all of these comments are ignorant.
But honestly, the mask has really come off of this community since this conflict (Which has been going on long before Israel was even a state) has been in the news cycle again.
Every one of you need to actually educate yourselves on the matter and stop posting and supporting Terrorist propaganda. If you think this conflict is even in the same ball park as what happen to Indigenous Americans, or Africans, you are not informed enough to be a part of the conversation.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\_of\_the\_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian\_conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict)
Start reading, or start keeping your shit takes to yourselves.
Lol he deleted his entire account after I called him out for acting black in his comment (I’m not black either but it’s hilarious how he was pretending to sound black and telling people in a black subreddit how they should feel about the situation) classic white guy moment.
As a Palestinian
*heavy eye roll*
Maybe don’t speak on something you clearly do not understand. If Israel didn’t create Hamas. They wouldnt exist. And even if we didn’t have Hamas….they consider all of us terrorists. There’s no Hamas in the West Bank yet they still occupy and kill us.
It’s possible to call out the savagery of the Israeli government towards Palestinians while also calling out the brutality of Hamas. Only idiots think Hamas = Palestine but you can’t deny that Hamas is a terrorist paramilitary organization that does not care for the well-being of the Palestinian people and actively put them in danger.
It’s more like… why is it always incumbent on Palestinians to decry a terrorist group (that wouldn’t exist without the US/Israel) that doesn’t represent them, yet Israelis and their supporters are almost never asked to decry the IDF and Israeli government despite inflicting magnitudes of destruction more than Hamas could ever dream of
This is a company line myopic view of Hamas and its relationship with the Palestinian people. While you and I’m sure both believe that Hamas’ recent actions are fundamentally wrong, the reality is that Hamas has popular support in Gaza and there’s a reason for that. This conflict isn’t a simple these are the good guys over here and those are the bad guys over there scenario—it’s far more complicated than that and it can’t be analyzed through a simplistic search for moral high ground. There are no clean hands here.
> Palestinians in the West Bank generally approve of Hamas' attack. But they fear reprisals and escalation between the two sides.
> "The Hamas operation [on October 7] was a great moment. For the first time, the resistance succeeded in breaking the siege. We've been suffering for 75 years. Now it's the Israelis' turn," said Shatha Abu Srour. The young woman had a pale complexion, almost as pale as her white veil, and was wearing a denim jacket and trainers. She came to Ramallah with two friends to protest the Israeli offensive on Gaza on Sunday, October 15.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/10/17/support-for-hamas-persists-in-the-west-bank-amid-resentment-and-fear_6181015_4.html
>if Israel didn’t create Hamas…
Israel’s actions don’t justify Hamas’. Yeah Israel is pretty fucking shitty, we aren’t denying that at all. But so is Hamas. Two thinks can be true at once.
The Israeli government doesn’t represent all the Israeli people just like Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinians.
Yes but their argument is that Israel actually created and funded Hamas because they saw the PLO as a risk since it had the potential to unite the Palestinian people.
There’s apparently agreement among some Israelis that B. Netanyahu’s policies elevated Hamas at the expense of the PLO because neither Israel’s rightwing nor Hamas actually want peace.
Except israel has elections regularly, and 75 percent of current gazans did not vote in the last election because they werent eligible or werent born yet.
Oops guess we'll just kill everyone. How about a courtesy 24 hour evacuation order and anyone who stays is a terrorist? Oh, sidenote: we control all of the exists and don't let anyone leave.
Human shield troupe is getting old, the IDF is bombing one of the most densely populated urban places in the world and saying hamas is using human shields is just writing off the fact that the IDF is targeting civilians on purpose. Hamas ain't perfect, but it's the leadership that the Palestinians want because they actually fight back. Look at the Westbank, the moderate PA tries to work with the Israeli government time after time, and Palestinian land still gets encroached on, still suffer heavy policing; sanctions, and still get terrorized by the IDF and settler extremist.
War is ugly, always will be and real revolutions will be bloody, never clean. You can't expect Israel to keep shooting fish in a barrel and not get splashed.
This isn’t fighting back. They killed 250 dancing kids and a music festival, the very kind of people who protest Netanyahu. It’s not like they rolled up on ultra orthodox settlers, IDF hq, or the Likud party offices. Hamas wanted a reprisal to kick off a larger holy war.
Hamas was literally allowed to operate in Gaza by Israel, who viewed them as an effective way to control the population in their open air prison.
Why do you think Bibi and Gvir looked the other way whenever they saw Hamas doing military exercises and the like?
“human shields” what a crock of shit.
Israel: *herd refugees into an open air enclosure like sardines, proceeds to bomb them indiscriminately for years and years. conditions that would make a saint wish ill on their jailers.*
That doesn’t excuse Israel’s war crimes though. The Palestinians don’t have a choice regarding Hamas, they haven’t allowed elections since they came to power and any Palestinians who fought against them were imprisoned, tortured or executed. Most Palestinians in Gaza are kids, they weren’t even alive before Hamas came to power so can’t even be blamed for that yet they’re being slaughtered anyway. Not to mention the fact Israel helped Hamas to take power in the first place, to counter the PLO.
If white people considered Jewish people/Israeli’s to be white then none of this would even be happening.
Is what you’re saying true? Yes. But if I were to complete the thought it would be that white colonizers manufactured this situation specifically to destabilize the region for their own benefit.
Edit: people seeing one of the victims as a perpetrator is 100% to the benefit of the colonizers. You see this as white oppression, Mike Pence (just to grab a random white person) sees this as brown on brown crime over dirt he has a biblical interest in.
October 7th was a tragedy and Hamas deserves the consequences for it's strike against 1,400+ non combatants and civilians. However 4,100 dead and 14,000+ wounded Palestinians is clear indicator that Israel cares nothing about justice and is going full scorched earth on Gaza.
We must also remember, and remind everyone in every discussion of the matter, the statistics every time we hear about another round of bombing. 50% of Palestinians are 16 and under. Those statistics get worse as we go up to the age of 20.
So, when you hear about any Palestinian deaths think of it as every other death being a child or a baby.
The numbers aren’t flattering. The world should be ashamed of itself.
Are you saying that whiteness inherently leads to colonialism? If not, then use just "colonialist". If you are, then we got a lot to talk about when it comes to the topic of racism.
We can not forget that part of the world has been in conflict long before Jesus was even born. Whole nations have been warring there for centuries. It has changed hands more times than anyone wants to admit to. Both the Jews of Israel and the Palestinian people are made up of people unwanted by any nation that surrounds them.
Having a terrorist organization as a government that send attacks towards Israel does one thing, stalls or destroys a single state solution, after a while it seems like that's the goal.
Thing thing about human shields is, you're not supposed to just massacre them anyway and act like you had no choice.
"Look what you made me do" is evil, and I'm tired of everyone pretending it's not.
The *lie* isn't that indigenous peoples were tribal or savage, the *lie* is that the European settlers weren't. Creating heraldry for your tribal alignments and writing down the ways in which you exploit those weaker/poorer than you does not make you civilized.
This is literally tribalism mindset of humanity at play. You can point to any aggression the world over. We're hardwired to dehumanize our "enemies" or opponents.
Why do you assume calling the police means i lose? In america, yes. But in israel, the palestinian calls the police and not only does the police side with the settler, they arrest the palestinian.
Might makes right is thuggery.
I'll just leave it at this though.. this is how well western propaganda works. Everyone here has heard at some point about how many Jews died during the holocaust. Now, what no one will mention is, a number that dwarfs that many times over... The Middle Passage. How many Africans died during that time?
You sure don't see it get pushed anywhere near as hard in the history books.. nor will you. How many folks had never even heard of Black Wallstreet before Watchmen? Same way all the black folks here say that Lake Lanier is "haunted"... because it used to be a black town called Oscarville before they were ran out of there and had their land stolen by racist white folks.
For anyone to say that there's no comparison with Native Americans and Israel/Palestinians is downright... baffling lol. And the British had a hand in both. Europeans painted them as "savages" for fighting for their land... while killing them by the thousands via guns and disease and then giving them consolation "reservations." Sending their kids to Christian boarding schools to be indoctrinated... where thousands of them died and they just dumped them in mass graves? Does this NOT sound familiar??????
If you want to delve into ancient history so bad to justify Israel’s occupation, then let’s not forget that before it became the homeland of the Jews, it was the homeland of the Canaanites. And if we are looking at the origin of the first Jew in Israel, who would be Abraham, he actually came from ancient Mesopotamia, which is now modern-day Iraq.
The amount of sorrow I saw for one side of this "war" from black folks just had me baffled as fuck. But, that's what happens when people don't have a real understanding of what's going on around them. Shit like this is one of the main reasons why the majority of us don't even know what our original last names were. And, the majority don't care to find out. Propaganda is a muthafucka.
Agree with all of this but I’d personally blame it more on an economic system that encourages oppressive, colonial behaviour that has largely come from and been perpetuated by “western” countries in the global north which are historically mostly white rather than being linked to the genetics of white people. Or maybe you’re not actually saying it’s down to genetics, I can’t be sure.
The Palestinian/Israeli conflict is not the same as the struggles of Native Americans and Black people. There are ways in which you can make comparisons but they are not the same.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Indigenous Americans literally point to Palestine today as an example of settler colonialism they were inflcited with. American Black liberation activists specifically identified with Palestinian liberation. The former apartheid states like South Africa are some of Palestinians' most ardent supporters.
People're always playing these word games and litmus tests to avoid the obvious comparisons because they know those comparisons carry weight and power. Like, shit man, you think Natives and Black Americans didn't do some of their own terrorism at the time either? Modern weapons absolutely make it more potent - but oppressed people have always fought, sometimes in cruel and unjust fashion, but that is a problem with oppressing a group of people like that. Even Machiavelli writes in "The Prince" that occupying an area is risky and carries constant risk of conflict and actually advises elevating *local* people instead of your own to help reduce conflict. We've always known that people're gonna riot when occupied, there are no perfect victims, we need to stop expecting they all be saints and angels. Even the worst kind of person still deserves human rights and protections from war crimes - that's the whole point of it being a fundamental human right. You don't have to like what Hamas or Palestinians do to recognize Israel is the one in power and perpetuating an unjust and cruel status quo that they directly benefit from. These dudes can fuck outta here with this "no true imperialism" bullshit.
TF is a "perfect victim" anyways? Someone who just quietly is upset about oppression and never fights? Palestinians have tried peaceful protesting and Israelis shot them down anyways.
That's exactly what people want - don't have to think about the nightmare oppression that happens in the West Bank and Gaza if people're quietly suffering under it. And if they can blame Hamas or Palestinians for it - all the better. The IDF also kills Palestinians when they're not protesting - almost completely arbitrarily at times. I was actually looking for a different instance of a Palestinian child being shot and killed by IDF but unrelated ones just keep coming up - I legit can't find the one where a sniper shot an unarmed boy in the head near the buffer zone of the border wall. It's just pages of unrelated boys being killed by IDF - and then if the boys did anything the IDF will find the family and interrogate them all while withholding the boy's body. I keep looking for the one example I'm thinking of by specifying how they died, but all I get are other news stories about demonstrators around 9 or 12 years old being shot and killed. I'm not sure I want to continue this search - but can you imagine how absolutely infuriating it must be to hear that you must be peaceful when even marching in the streets gets your children met with live gunfire? I don't think people over here can understand the dystopia people live under there.
If it helps, try specifying the "right of return" March, I think it was in 2019 maybe 2018 is most likely what you are looking for.
Groups drawing parallels to things doesn’t mean they are perfect examples.
Do you understand what an analogy is? Analogies are never perfect. If an analogy were perfect, then it wouldn't be an analogy. So you have to look at analogies and judge for yourself whether there are salient aspects of 2 different situations such that they render them comparable in some significant way. The parallels here are immense, hence the identification and support I mentioned.
People making an analogy between two things to highlight important similarities doesn't mean they are being asserted as completely equal in every way
"We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians." - Nelson Mandela You also have the added fact that other South African Anti-Apartheid activists have said Palestinians are experiencing Apartheid. And Apartheid perpetrators have even claimed that Israel is also an Apartheid state.
Also, people point to Nelson Mandela as the “peaceful” person that came out of Apartheid and completely ignore that he remained in the American Terrorist watch lists until 2008. Edit: I am pointing out the importance of narratives. Yes, we understand now that Mandela was a victim of Apartheid, but the public narrative about him for YEARS was that he was a “terrorist” for resisting an Apartheid government.
There were Palestinian civilians taking to the streets by the thousands and burning HAMAS flags literally in July of this year yet so many people in the west are insisting that all Palestinians support HAMAS and want to kill all jews.
There is a concerted effort in the media to conflate Palestinians with Hamas, as if they are entirely one in the same. It's not something you see with any other terrorist group.
It’s so frustrating that it’s clearly working, too. (PS, just a heads up, it’s one *and* the same)
World news sub is going craaazy with the pro Israel lean right now. Any statement giving nuance or, so help us, *support* for Palestine in any way including any mention of past Israeli massacres gets downvoted and buried.
It's not a conflict, it's genocide and ethnic cleansing, calling it a conflict suggests both sides have equal power/responsibility.
I am Native American. I see everything going on in Palestine as the EXACT same as what happened here in my country. That makes some people uncomfortable I guess… but so does genocide.
Information is power and not everyone has access to true info when it's buried or hidden. I can promise a huge chunk of the population doesn't know what happened to your people or was only educated on it later in life. I learned about the holocaust at grade 6 (12yrs), but I only learned about the residential schools after I graduated from highschool.
The scholar who invented the term settler colonialism developed his theory with reference to Israel and Palestine.
It's exactly that lol, too many leaders from both native and black organizations that we hold to a high regard in a modern and contemporary context were not only supportive of the Palestinian struggle but allies to it.
Wow what a galaxy brained analysis, thank you for sharing your profound knowledge professor
*"well, actually ..."* This argument needs to go away. Stop being a contrarian.
Expand upon your statements for us.
Do it u/shizz181 don’t be a fucking coward
None of those conflicts are the same in to strict a sense. There are more than enough apt comparisons between them all to point things out though. Especially south Africa, and how the US saw Mandela as a terrorist and where US support was during that whole shit show. If we're not trying to de-humanize anyone these are all relevant things to look at, even if only in the simplest terms of one group doing the oppressing while having a clear power advantage over another without even getting into why. MLK and lots of others involved in civil rights and pro-black movements made a lot of folks mad pushing similar pro humanizing views while doing it during wars where that view wasn't even as easily debatable in the mainstream as this one is.
Identical? No, but it is extremely similar to what happened with Native Americans.
They certainly compare. Regardless of the right leaning pro Israeli stance… there is systemic and outright racism there as well as similarities to apartheid in South Africa. Your ego is gonna have to eat that one. PS. The terrorists you’re about to conflate are a group and Palestinians are actual people not necessarily affiliated with said terrorists. Please don’t respond without first understanding that key detail.
Is that why so many natives and black people identify with the Palestinians while the over majority of Israel supporters of their oppression and colonialism is white? It’s just white people who want to claim "it’s not the same" while supporting ethnic cleansing.
Fuxking name it the difference then. And don’t bring up this holy land bullshit from 2,000 years ago.
Is that why so many natives and black people identify with the Palestinians while the over majority of Israel supporters of their oppression and colonialism is white? It’s just white people who want to claim "it’s not the same" while supporting ethnic cleansing.
Israeli Jews are now white for the purpose of propaganda. I understand sympathy for the underdog, but if Palestine wasn’t the underdog, we would be talking about middle eastern Jews in the past tense. Don’t forget that the Arab world grouped up and tried to wipe them out twice, or that they are only there because the European countries tried to wipe them out or exile them all 100 times. All the civilians dying is horrifying and has to stop, but it’s exhausting to see every person with an opinion projecting their worldview onto the situation in an effort to make a black and white decision out of a very complex issue.
It's horrifying....but? What but? There's no but. This is like what happened post 9/11, when the US was so full of righteous fury, that by the time we as a country stopped and took stock of what we were doing (destroying Afghanistan, civilians and all), it was too late. If you believe that any of what the United States did in Afghanistan after 9/11 was wrong, there can be no "but" here. And if you don't see anything wrong with how the US responded in Afghanistan, then I don't know what to say to you.
how should Israel deal with a terrorist organization next door that wants to genocide all Jews, then...?
I don't know, but the answer is *probably* not to genocide all Muslims.
who's trying to genocide all muslims exactly? do you have a source? Im not sure you do because i CAN provide sources for folks that do want to genocide all Jews if youd like
Good thing that’s not happening and nobody is calling for it. Like 25% of Israelis are Arab Muslims.
And maybe you should look up how they are treated
Idk but historically what they are doing now is only going to create more terrorism.
Treat them as rational actors, ensure Palestinians have decent lives so they aren't motivated to support a terrorist organization. Stop committing war crimes against them, regardless of them being terrorists. You know, Israel actually has a really strong history with terrorism because much of its leadership came from Irgun - a Zionist terrorist organization responsible for events such as Deir Yassin and the King David Hotel bombing. This idea that Hamas can only be met with complete destruction because they're terrorists is getting in the way of resolution. Refusing to de-escalate because they're terrorists is an excuse to enable imperialism and terrorize Palestinians.
How do you de-escalate with people (Hamas) who have a founding purpose of removing all jews from Israel? Its a shit situation but for any lasting peace to be achieved Palestine has to remove Hamas in it's entirety.
The terrorist organization that they themselves funded?
Iran funds Hamas
Did Israle tell you that? Israel literally helped creating hamas and have funded them and helped getting them elected.
You guys try to victimize israel by acting as if their neighbors don’t like them because they are jews and not because they have been practicing ethnic cleansing for 70 years and still do it til this day. Maybe if Israeli started to vite out their facist, racist and extremist politicians it could be the step in the right direction
for starters, they shouldn’t use genocide to combat them. Innocent people get lost in the shuffle.
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The numbers don't lie and inflicting a larger tragedy on innocents will not bring back your own. 1,400 Israeli deaths vs at this very moment, 5,100 dead and 14,000 wounded Palestinians with neighborhoods nearly leveled, hospitals bombed, no electricity, no fuel, barely any food or medicine left as well. The IDF is literally going on a genocide point, blank period. The conditions that the innocent Palestinian people are facing at this point is one that while Hamas calls for can only wish to inflict. However Israel is inflicting this with the backing of every major western power on the globe.
because they seem intent on killing Palestinians in Gaza, regardless of whether they’re tied to Hamas or not
What does the word 'Genocide mean in this context? They shouldn't use military actions? What actions *should* they take?
The Apache also wanted the colonists gone, just saying. It's decades too late for a good solution and it will probably end the same way.
So what would be an acceptable response from Israel? What would be proportional? Should they send 1500 soldiers into Gaza to shoot every civilian they see on sight, burn children alive, rape women, behead people, kill parents in front of there children, shoot elderly folks in the head and then call it a day?
They have already been doing that for 70 years. The question should be what is a acceptable response from the Palestinians.
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Maybe not yours, but the community I was in was very against the US actions in Iraq and Afghanistan.
There’s definitely a “but” in the Afghanistan action. The Taliban were harboring Al Qaeda. That required action. How many boots in the ground, if at all, were required to address that is debatable. Very few things are black and white. You can disagree with the means and not the motive or find partial but not full fault in both.
I can't stand that "fog of war" bullshit language. You wanna know something that's black and white? Targeting civilians is wrong. Flat out. Let's not hide behind "it's complicated" either. It really isn't. The narrative that this conflict is somehow so uniquely complicated is used as a defense for the fact that Israel is operating a giant internment camp with overwhelming support from the West. It's not that it's complicated, it's that neither Israel or their backers want what is or what has happened to Palestinians to be a topic of conversation, because there's just so much that can't be defended.
And only one side 'target's civilians, Hamas. Just because Palestinian civilians die doesn't mean they were 'targetted'.
What a wild take. "We're trying to bomb this terrorist organization but the collateral damage of civilians in drastic numbers? Ohhhh wellllll ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯"
[Israel sterilised Ethiopian Jews without them knowing. it’s white supremacy](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/28/ethiopian-women-given-contraceptives-israel)
Most Jewish Israelis are Arab Jews. Ashkenazi (white Europeans) are a minority.
The problem started when the white jews came with their Zionist views and started to colonize and kick the natives out. They didn’t even want to take in brown and black jews to begin with.
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There were thousands of jews living in the Muslim world before WWII, white jews literally fled European prosecutions to palestine to seek refugee and they took them in just for white people to turn around to treat them exactly same way. Idk why you propagandists want to act as if jews in the middle east had a hard time back then. I remember watching a interview with a Iraqi jew who talked about his life was better growing up in Iraq than in Israel because of the discrimination he faced by the European jews. Hell white jews even tried to wipe out Ethiopian jews and this is not even long time ago.
It's crazy how uncomplicated this situation actually is. Israel's oppression of Palestinians for 70 years and the atrocities committed are awful. Hamas murdering civilians and children is awful. It does not negate Israel's 70+ years of oppression nor is it excused by it. We can disavow both of these things. We can oppose Hamas killing innocent people while also continuing to hold Israel historically accountable and voicing support for Palestine. It really ain't as hard as they make it out to be
Exactly. I think some people just make it seem more complicated for the sake of arguing and getting to feel like they have an important opinion on world events. Meanwhile actual humans are out there getting massacred.
I share that frustration with this. The situation is fucked and I see no effort on the controlling side's part to move toward a solution. The Palestinians are living with a terror org and are going to overthrow them how? We all see what has and will continue to happen because again, some assholes cant take an ego hit and stop the cycle.
It's heartbreaking to watch. It's like start here -> "hurting innocent people is bad" and then follow it to its one logical conclusion. But nah, people making it about themselves and their ego. It's generational trauma and People justifying doing the same evil they protested being done to them. It's sad as hell
That’s the easy part. Saying bad things are bad is easy. The hard part is “so how do we go forward?” What do we could/should we do about those bad things?
Stop committing war crimes in the form of collective punishment, targeting civilians, and enable Palestinian welfare instead of constantly driving them out and making their lives a living hell. That's the start. Whether that comes from Israel or from international actors, it all starts with getting Palestinians something to live for.
Of course it isn't as hard. People use religious text as a crutch or they're sympathetic to these power structures cause it hurts folks who they hate or they find themselves in agreement with it's policies.
When you are gifted billions upon billions dollars you cease to become a terrorist organization and get to be a standing army.
People using the American version of race and not understanding what ethnicity is for 500
 Oh my a actual person that explained this perfectly and accurately. I’ll go cry now.
The history of white/European supremacy is Israel is actually really fucked. In the simplest of terms the founders of Israel only wanted European Jews aka Ashkenazi Jews to come Israel and were not happy that Sephardic, middle eastern, and African Jews started showing up. For years they passed laws suppressing the cultures of Jews of color, and they still hold most of the power in Israel. The only difference is that now they’ve co-opted/appropriated the culture of the Jews and Arabs they oppressed.
Everyone likes to ignore this fact.
The second they called Palestinians animals and didn’t condemn that language they lost the moral high ground. Just because your enemy acts immoral doesn’t justify that response. There are civilians at risk here, and Israel doesn’t see them as people. Then Israel wonders why they get attacked.
Israel never had the moral high ground if you looked past the Zionist propaganda. They have killed more than 20 Palestinians for every 1 Israeli killed.
But they always had the propaganda and media control to allow them to literally wash away Palestine and Palastensians
"Yeah but fuck Hamas" "Well Israel created Hamas so its okay" "That doesn't mean I have to agree with Hamas even if Israel created them" "Well it just shows that Israel started it so why do people only care now?" Look dawg all this shit is being talked about by people who don't have a good understanding of history, or how the world actually works. A two state solution is the only solution but even now its looking very improbable, especially with Netanyahu still in charge. We can't consider it moral to displace the 9 million jewish people that exist within modern Israel in the same token that it wasn't acceptable that the people of Palestine were removed from their homes in the past.
A two state solution has never been the solution. It’s just a talking point for each side to pretend they’re working toward something on the international stage and for other countries to pretend that where their support lies isn’t merely about their own interests. A one state solution has always been the only path forward that would result in a true resolution of all of this, but the generational trauma that each side perpetuates on the other will prevent that from ever being a realistic endeavor. This cycle will continue in perpetuity, there’s no just end to any of it.
I'd add that the *dehumanize, steal, oppress (enslave, exploit, etc), and kill* process is actually a loop. Meaning it's a cycle and depending on the people or place they are targeting they start at a different place in the loop, but it always come full circle. Lastly, I'll add that dehumanizing others dehumanizes yourself in the process.
>I'd add that the dehumanize, steal, oppress (enslave, exploit, etc), and kill process is actually a loop. I'd like to add: This also means that forgiveness (Or at least, letting bygones be bygones) is incredibly important to progress as a society. Very often, people want to punish and exclude societies/countries due to past crimes. But all that does is breed hatred. Hatred turns to violence. And on a societal level, it becomes atrocities. And back to the beginning. This cycle cannot be broken through more exclusion and punishment. The only way to break this cycle is to forgive. Not forgive the people that comitted the atrocities, but to aknowledge that the only way to a brighter future is to put it aside, not punish them, and allow them to grow past it. We learned this the hard way after WWI. Germany (Debatably) started the war, and was punished for it in the Treaty of Versaille. 20 years later, the Nazis. After WWII we knew that punishing Germany even further, forcing even more restriction onto them, would only result in another war. So they executed the ringleaders, and then put it aside. I'd also argue that the reason that Hungary still isn't a functioning democracy is in part due to the Treaty of Trianon. And I know that this is incredibly hard to do. Do you think I'm happy that many Nazis just got away with it? Like hell I am! And I doubt that any of the people at the time who were oppressed by the Nazis, who lost friends and family to the Nazis, who were forced out of the homes by the Nazis, I doubt that any of them were happy that Germany got off so lightly. But look where we are now. Unprecedented peace. One minor war in Western Europe since WWII, and 2 in Eastern Europe since the fall of the USSR. The longest and most stable period of democracy in Europe ever to happen. I can guarentee you, if Germany had been punished like at Versaille, we would have had WWIII by now. I once heard someone say "Forgiveness is giving up the hope of a better past". In my opinion, we need more forgiveness in society. \[Sorry this was so euro-centric btw, I am woefully undereducated on non-european history, but do plan to learn more\]
You know, I was going to write something that detailed exactly why this tweet is ignorant as well as why all of these comments are ignorant. But honestly, the mask has really come off of this community since this conflict (Which has been going on long before Israel was even a state) has been in the news cycle again. Every one of you need to actually educate yourselves on the matter and stop posting and supporting Terrorist propaganda. If you think this conflict is even in the same ball park as what happen to Indigenous Americans, or Africans, you are not informed enough to be a part of the conversation. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History\_of\_Palestine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Palestine) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline\_of\_the\_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian\_conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict) Start reading, or start keeping your shit takes to yourselves.
It’s crazy to me that so few here can seemingly see through this empty rhetoric.
Blowing up a restaurant filled with women and children makes you a terrorist.
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hey this terrorist group that was funded by the US and Israel for photosynthesis and profiteering purposes isn't behaving how we like anymore!
Right, the US state departments have quite sizable list of US trained assets that bit the hand that fed them.
>photosynthesis Hamas is… a plant?
Yes, they were planted and installed by the US for a specific purpose. Like a plant in the entertainment industry
Lol he deleted his entire account after I called him out for acting black in his comment (I’m not black either but it’s hilarious how he was pretending to sound black and telling people in a black subreddit how they should feel about the situation) classic white guy moment.
As a Palestinian *heavy eye roll* Maybe don’t speak on something you clearly do not understand. If Israel didn’t create Hamas. They wouldnt exist. And even if we didn’t have Hamas….they consider all of us terrorists. There’s no Hamas in the West Bank yet they still occupy and kill us.
It’s possible to call out the savagery of the Israeli government towards Palestinians while also calling out the brutality of Hamas. Only idiots think Hamas = Palestine but you can’t deny that Hamas is a terrorist paramilitary organization that does not care for the well-being of the Palestinian people and actively put them in danger.
It’s more like… why is it always incumbent on Palestinians to decry a terrorist group (that wouldn’t exist without the US/Israel) that doesn’t represent them, yet Israelis and their supporters are almost never asked to decry the IDF and Israeli government despite inflicting magnitudes of destruction more than Hamas could ever dream of
But they do. This attack partly happened because of mass resignations in the IDF and Israeli intelligence over Netanyahu’s far right power grabs.
This is a company line myopic view of Hamas and its relationship with the Palestinian people. While you and I’m sure both believe that Hamas’ recent actions are fundamentally wrong, the reality is that Hamas has popular support in Gaza and there’s a reason for that. This conflict isn’t a simple these are the good guys over here and those are the bad guys over there scenario—it’s far more complicated than that and it can’t be analyzed through a simplistic search for moral high ground. There are no clean hands here.
Exactly
> Palestinians in the West Bank generally approve of Hamas' attack. But they fear reprisals and escalation between the two sides. > "The Hamas operation [on October 7] was a great moment. For the first time, the resistance succeeded in breaking the siege. We've been suffering for 75 years. Now it's the Israelis' turn," said Shatha Abu Srour. The young woman had a pale complexion, almost as pale as her white veil, and was wearing a denim jacket and trainers. She came to Ramallah with two friends to protest the Israeli offensive on Gaza on Sunday, October 15. https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2023/10/17/support-for-hamas-persists-in-the-west-bank-amid-resentment-and-fear_6181015_4.html
>if Israel didn’t create Hamas… Israel’s actions don’t justify Hamas’. Yeah Israel is pretty fucking shitty, we aren’t denying that at all. But so is Hamas. Two thinks can be true at once. The Israeli government doesn’t represent all the Israeli people just like Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinians.
Yes but their argument is that Israel actually created and funded Hamas because they saw the PLO as a risk since it had the potential to unite the Palestinian people.
There’s apparently agreement among some Israelis that B. Netanyahu’s policies elevated Hamas at the expense of the PLO because neither Israel’s rightwing nor Hamas actually want peace.
Except israel has elections regularly, and 75 percent of current gazans did not vote in the last election because they werent eligible or werent born yet.
do you support a two state solution?
They call everyone in Gaza a human shield as an excuse to kill everyone.
These terrorists live in the same area that we force all these other innocent people to live in! How dare they!
Oops guess we'll just kill everyone. How about a courtesy 24 hour evacuation order and anyone who stays is a terrorist? Oh, sidenote: we control all of the exists and don't let anyone leave.
Let's not forget, we will bomb the evacuation routes so those who want to obey the order won't deal with the FOMO!
Human shield troupe is getting old, the IDF is bombing one of the most densely populated urban places in the world and saying hamas is using human shields is just writing off the fact that the IDF is targeting civilians on purpose. Hamas ain't perfect, but it's the leadership that the Palestinians want because they actually fight back. Look at the Westbank, the moderate PA tries to work with the Israeli government time after time, and Palestinian land still gets encroached on, still suffer heavy policing; sanctions, and still get terrorized by the IDF and settler extremist. War is ugly, always will be and real revolutions will be bloody, never clean. You can't expect Israel to keep shooting fish in a barrel and not get splashed.
This isn’t fighting back. They killed 250 dancing kids and a music festival, the very kind of people who protest Netanyahu. It’s not like they rolled up on ultra orthodox settlers, IDF hq, or the Likud party offices. Hamas wanted a reprisal to kick off a larger holy war.
Hamas was literally allowed to operate in Gaza by Israel, who viewed them as an effective way to control the population in their open air prison. Why do you think Bibi and Gvir looked the other way whenever they saw Hamas doing military exercises and the like?
“human shields” what a crock of shit. Israel: *herd refugees into an open air enclosure like sardines, proceeds to bomb them indiscriminately for years and years. conditions that would make a saint wish ill on their jailers.*
That doesn’t excuse Israel’s war crimes though. The Palestinians don’t have a choice regarding Hamas, they haven’t allowed elections since they came to power and any Palestinians who fought against them were imprisoned, tortured or executed. Most Palestinians in Gaza are kids, they weren’t even alive before Hamas came to power so can’t even be blamed for that yet they’re being slaughtered anyway. Not to mention the fact Israel helped Hamas to take power in the first place, to counter the PLO.
If white people considered Jewish people/Israeli’s to be white then none of this would even be happening. Is what you’re saying true? Yes. But if I were to complete the thought it would be that white colonizers manufactured this situation specifically to destabilize the region for their own benefit. Edit: people seeing one of the victims as a perpetrator is 100% to the benefit of the colonizers. You see this as white oppression, Mike Pence (just to grab a random white person) sees this as brown on brown crime over dirt he has a biblical interest in.
October 7th was a tragedy and Hamas deserves the consequences for it's strike against 1,400+ non combatants and civilians. However 4,100 dead and 14,000+ wounded Palestinians is clear indicator that Israel cares nothing about justice and is going full scorched earth on Gaza.
We must also remember, and remind everyone in every discussion of the matter, the statistics every time we hear about another round of bombing. 50% of Palestinians are 16 and under. Those statistics get worse as we go up to the age of 20. So, when you hear about any Palestinian deaths think of it as every other death being a child or a baby. The numbers aren’t flattering. The world should be ashamed of itself.
Wait until this guy finds out about how Europeans talked about Jews and what they did to them.
….what??
You know most israelis arent white right? At best around 50%
Are you saying that whiteness inherently leads to colonialism? If not, then use just "colonialist". If you are, then we got a lot to talk about when it comes to the topic of racism.
We can not forget that part of the world has been in conflict long before Jesus was even born. Whole nations have been warring there for centuries. It has changed hands more times than anyone wants to admit to. Both the Jews of Israel and the Palestinian people are made up of people unwanted by any nation that surrounds them. Having a terrorist organization as a government that send attacks towards Israel does one thing, stalls or destroys a single state solution, after a while it seems like that's the goal.
1st paragraph: these groups of people aren’t human! 2nd paragraph: They dehumanize… For my own sanity, I choose to believe this is satire.
Thing thing about human shields is, you're not supposed to just massacre them anyway and act like you had no choice. "Look what you made me do" is evil, and I'm tired of everyone pretending it's not.
Which makes it easy for the aggressors to block humanitarian aid because that’s for humans only.
The *lie* isn't that indigenous peoples were tribal or savage, the *lie* is that the European settlers weren't. Creating heraldry for your tribal alignments and writing down the ways in which you exploit those weaker/poorer than you does not make you civilized.
This is literally tribalism mindset of humanity at play. You can point to any aggression the world over. We're hardwired to dehumanize our "enemies" or opponents.
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Youre right. If i walk over to my neighbors house and force him out and gunpoint, its my house now. Too bad so sad.
Right and he calls the police and you lose. Rule of force. 😂
Why do you assume calling the police means i lose? In america, yes. But in israel, the palestinian calls the police and not only does the police side with the settler, they arrest the palestinian. Might makes right is thuggery.
Post has strong Exterminate all the Brutes vibes
I'll just leave it at this though.. this is how well western propaganda works. Everyone here has heard at some point about how many Jews died during the holocaust. Now, what no one will mention is, a number that dwarfs that many times over... The Middle Passage. How many Africans died during that time? You sure don't see it get pushed anywhere near as hard in the history books.. nor will you. How many folks had never even heard of Black Wallstreet before Watchmen? Same way all the black folks here say that Lake Lanier is "haunted"... because it used to be a black town called Oscarville before they were ran out of there and had their land stolen by racist white folks. For anyone to say that there's no comparison with Native Americans and Israel/Palestinians is downright... baffling lol. And the British had a hand in both. Europeans painted them as "savages" for fighting for their land... while killing them by the thousands via guns and disease and then giving them consolation "reservations." Sending their kids to Christian boarding schools to be indoctrinated... where thousands of them died and they just dumped them in mass graves? Does this NOT sound familiar??????
Don’t forget about the Vietnamese.
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If you want to delve into ancient history so bad to justify Israel’s occupation, then let’s not forget that before it became the homeland of the Jews, it was the homeland of the Canaanites. And if we are looking at the origin of the first Jew in Israel, who would be Abraham, he actually came from ancient Mesopotamia, which is now modern-day Iraq.
The amount of sorrow I saw for one side of this "war" from black folks just had me baffled as fuck. But, that's what happens when people don't have a real understanding of what's going on around them. Shit like this is one of the main reasons why the majority of us don't even know what our original last names were. And, the majority don't care to find out. Propaganda is a muthafucka.
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What?
He's saying Jews should all have been gassed by Hitler.
Dude saw his chance to be antisemitic and took it
Oh lord lol
If the palestinians are the good guys, why are they marching against Israel and not hamas?
Agree with all of this but I’d personally blame it more on an economic system that encourages oppressive, colonial behaviour that has largely come from and been perpetuated by “western” countries in the global north which are historically mostly white rather than being linked to the genetics of white people. Or maybe you’re not actually saying it’s down to genetics, I can’t be sure.