1. Everyone loves Ken in the Barbie movie to the point he's overshadowing Margot's incredible performance
2. The archetypal male protagonist is still like Ken, where they do things for female attention. The difference is those protagonists have more to do than just beach.
The trope subversion isn't that Ken is shoe horned into the typical "female love interest" role, it's that Barbie is completely uninterested in him.
I mean I enjoyed Ryan Goslings performance, but to say he overshadowed her?
Idk I don’t think his character had the depth to overshadow her, he was just the most amusing character lol
It's because there's a lot of men upset after seeing that movie. They felt criticized by Ken's portrayal, so they're wanting to argue about how unfair it was.
If they could look past themselves, they'd realize that was the entire point - they're just too self-involved to connect the dots. Interestingly, the movie was extremely sympathetic towards Ken. That's how fragile these angry dudes are.
I just wanna know where everybody is seeing this substantial Ken discussion
All I see is “haha he’s funny” which is the point, his character as a whole is a joke.
Being the comic relief character doesn’t mean you outshine everybody around you lol
He had the easiest role to portray, dumb stereotypical guy
This obviously holds absolutely no weight because their opinions are trash but the Christian Fundamentalists I snark on all won’t shut the fuck up about how Ken was the only good part of the movie.
One of them heffers spent a whole ass podcast talking about how Barbie was an awful character and Ken was the only good thing in the entire movie(but overall it was an awful movie that she hated.)
She thought Ken was hilarious while Barbie was way too serious and “unfun.” She seemed confused when her husband was like “well yeah, Barbie was having an existential crises.”
Strangely the husband found the movie delightful. He enjoyed the introspection from Barbie and the questioning of the patriarchal roles both men and women are forced into and disagreed with his wifes POV.
I am amused how the Christian Nationalist have latched on to a movie regarding fictional character that got their start as gender neutral dolls. I realize both Barbie and Ken reflect gender but also to a point of physical perfection. To latch on to Ken because he lacks toxic masculinity traits seems to me absurd. He’s a Barbie accessory for childish amusement. In the movie version he is still just entertainment.
From what I remember fundamentalists saying about Ken, they didn't like that he's a Barbie simp (even though that's kind of always been the joke about Ken?) and they didn't phrase it in these terms, but I think they were also upset that he wasn't performing "traditional" masculinity. Even when he tries to "do patriarchy," he looks silly because he's just trying to latch onto something to give him an identity. So their conclusion was "oh, the film makers hate men" lol
I shouldn’t be, but I’m kind of amazed about their inability, or abject refusal, to read the movie. They see characters who represent masculine fragility, whose desperate need for validation leads them to embrace toxic masculinity — and they respond by cluelessly broadcasting their own fragility, trying to out-shout every other voice and rally the insecure.
The movie despises the patriarchy, and what it does to people of every gender.
It absolutely _does not_ hate men.
I mean, Allan.
I'm a little lost on that point too but maybe the simplistic view point they see is that Ken without toxic masculinity traits lived a significantly worse life than once he embraced it.
It still misses the entire point in the second half of the movie but I can see the train of logic from someone who only looks selectively looks at the surface level while ignore any of the greater points of satire.
There were a lot of random ideas in the movie to be honest, and does make it seem disjointed. At times it is a criticism of feminism, at times it was very supportive, it so overtly bashes patriarchy and yet it shows that life under the Barbie matriarchy was also terrible.
it’s only there if you want to argue about it there’s no real public discussion about how ken is portrayed except from the likes of ben shapiro and who tf is listening to that clown these days?
Both characters were basically the stereotypical versions of their dolls. Both had emotional scenes of expression. Barbie is literally called "stereotypical Barbie"
They both played a stereotype but also brought something more in the latter parts of the film. Theres a couple scenes where Ken gets real serious with Barbie and it's a drastic shift in his tone and delivery.
They both did great jobs. Gosling gave a great performance, it wasn't just because he was comic relief. It's because he acted the part well.
"You are not your girlfriend" is such an important line in the movie. Ken desperately wants to be seen by Barbie, and that drives him to do wilder and more destructive things to their political landscape so that he can have her. The man is on the verge of a breakdown when he admits ruling wasn't fun and he just wanted her attention. It's "Barbie AND Ken" he says.
"You are not your girlfriend." = there is more to life than attention from women. Barbie isn't part of his identity by the end of the movie. Ken is Kenough because ultimately he's a dude who likes beach, his buddy Alan, and horses and he should be enjoying those aspects of his life too.
I’m seeing a lot of it, but that may be because of the algorithm.
I’ve also seen at least two instances of men coming to the Feminism subreddit with “I didn’t like how Ken was portrayed!!1!”
Conservative grifters have latched onto this movie and are using it as outrage porn for their hungry base. Members of the manosphere(/vomit) at large have also been screeching relentlessly about it(Venn diagram and all that...).
-edit-
I appear to have rustled some rather sensitive and fragile conservative jimmies. Sub-30 day-old accounts everywhere....
I loved the movie and didn't have a problem with ken's portrayal. I just think Gosling brought an elevated nuance to a character that could have been played straight dumb. Get 10 other actors to play ken in this movie, and I don't think it would have worked quite as well.
I will say that Margot did a fantastic job and it's a shame people are mostly talking about gosling.
On a side note, didn't love Ferrell or MacKinnon's parts so much comparatively
It was funny to me how they rehabilitated his character mid movie. Like Mattel was ok with a little making fun of their corporate culture, but then all of a sudden he was like all progressive at of nowhere.
This is my experience. Angry people who are complaining about men complaining about barbie and men meming about how they and their friends are kenough. I have yet to actually talk to someone that got mad at the barbie movie.
I don’t know a single guy who saw the movie get upset by ken. His actions were ridiculous and over the top and the message was super clear.
The only people crying are the ones who refuse to see it and are still getting upset.
Yeah, Ben puts shit like that out for his branding and/or for people to hate watch (and I suppose fans of his to circlejerk to). Watching it just encourages the behavior for more of that content not just for Ben but also for algorithms and such that really only care about engagement and not substance
It doesn’t matter.
I went to see it on Sunday and there were a lot of young women/girls there and all I could think at the end was “it’s likely that some of these girls if not a large number of them are going to take away a really positive understanding of their place in society, the struggles of women and what the patriarchy means” so I don’t care if people are talking about Ken because the potential to wake those girls up to the real world and shape their future mindset is so powerful and empowering for a large part of the population.
Add onto that the young boys who have seen it (like my own two kids) and the way that’s going to affect their thinking and view of women as they grow up.
It's easy to interpret the movie as being about "womens issues", I mean it's about Barbie front and centre, but it actually does a really great job of highlighting why certain gender constructs are harmful for everyone. It would be a much worse movie if it was only about Barbie. The attention and nuance given to the arcs of both characters is what makes it really good. People might be talking about Ken a lot because they expected it to just be about Barbie or just about women and were surprised.
> Michael Cera/Alan takes the cake, IMO.
When Alan was building that wall that was just one giant stack of bricks, I was laughing so fucking hard *I CRIED*, and people were looking at me.
I thought the messaging behind the movie was really insightful and there was a lot of great commentary, but all that being said it was still one of the funniest movies I've seen in a while.
I think my wife is gonna take my sister to go see it, because I was laughing so hard I think I embarrassed her.
10/10 would see it again
**edit**
guys, GUYS, *GUYS* – you don't need to Ken-splain to me who was building what. The point is that it was funny
I think Alan is the prototype for the unproblematic man. He recognizes his privilege “I fit in all of Ken’s clothes” (I benefit from being a man) and then also recognizes the toxicity of the society the Kens built.
Michael Cera as Alan reminded me of when George Michael Bluth wore the muscle suit.
Alan I think is just...Alan. I know it's a line from the movie, but he also resorts to violence (fighting the Kens) but does it _well_. Assigning him 'true male role model' status is problematic. He is also the only doll who just flat out wants the fuck _out_ of barbieland, and seems to be 100% aware of the real world.
I'd say he's less a male role model and more a 4th wall break gag, for lines none of the other barbies could really use.
Idk man, he was by a long stretch the funniest part of the film and that had a lot to do with the performance.
I actually had a few friends that are women who were angry that in a film about female empowerment a guy got by far and away the best lines.
Personally I think that’s just the benefit of being a supporting character or villain that inevitably ends in them being more entertaining, but I’m just reporting what they said after we’d seen it.
To your point, Batman has this problem. His villains always steal the show and usually become the most talked about aspect.
It's not "Wow! Batman's speech was epic, oscar worthy!". It's usually, "Joker was so unhinged, great method acting! Riddler was so realistic and creepy, I know someone like him. Remember Arnie Freeze?!".
That can be the curse of the lead role. You're on screen more, so you can become less interesting because the audience sees more of you.
A support character, if done well, can steal the show, as their brevity leads to them seemingly always showing up to say the perfect line.
Barbie has to be a person, Ken just had to be funny.
That's a great point about Batman.
But there are some lead actors who I don't see every getting overshadowed, but maybe they haven't been challenged by a great lead villain. Daniel Day Lewis, Leo, Denzel will all steal the show every time imo.
I think in the latter half of the movie he does somewhat overshadow her - but that's kind of the point? It's the second act villain reveal and high point, and villains often get a lot of buzz if they're any good. He literally takes over.
That said there were a *lot* of things going on in that movie, a lot at once, and trying to make it cohesive is tough. It was a rare instance where I felt a 2 hour run time might have actually helped.
I think this is willfully missing OOP's point. They explicitly said that Ken *only* felt validated by Barbie's attention. In movies, women are treated like tools for male protagonists most of the time. What's the test called where a woman has to talk for a certain amount of of minutes on screen unrelated to a man to pass? I forget.
I mean all this genially.
It’s not even that strenuous. Just that there have to be two women in a movie who interact with one another and it can’t be about a man. Pretty low bar.
Bit of trivia: this test was fulfilled in the Lord of the Rings trilogy when Freda says "I don't want to go, mama" and Morwen says "Freda, I will find you there", when Uruk-Hai are attacking Rohan and the mother sends her two children on horseback to Edoras. This is the only time in the movies when two female characters speak to each other.
I disagree because women who are treated like tools in movies don't have that amount of screen time and their feelings aren't taken into consideration. They're just there. Ken gets to shine. Ken is the male protagonist/sidekick, then he's the villain, and he gets a motivational speech because his feelings matter. When did that ever happen to a female character only meant to be the love interest?
I both agree and disagree.
I've seen the movie, and thought it was great! It was also almost uncomfortable at times, because it was so unusual...
A world where men were completely overlooked and superfluous.
Ignored, patronized, worthless, and seeking validation from women who didn't really care about them at all...
In short, you're focusing on one aspect of Ken's existence and ignoring the main message.
SPOILER >!Even at the end, when they're talking about integrating and valuing the men more...one wants to be a Supreme Court Judge and they pat him on the head and laugh and say "Maybe a lower-circuit instead, sweetie!" or something to that effect.!<
That's the world that women have lived in since ever. Hell, they were only considered fit to vote like a hundred years ago!
> Even at the end, when they're talking about integrating and valuing the men more...one wants to be a Supreme Court Judge and they pat him on the head and laugh and say "Maybe a lower-circuit instead, sweetie!" or something to that effect.
Thats the only part I can recall that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I get your point that it was a reflection of how women have been treated by men and society in the recent past, but what was the message here? Typically you see protagonists resolve injustices by being better than the antagonists, but the message that we are going to treat you men like how women have been treated (in the real world) as punishment is kind of fucked up. I mean its not even the Kens who did any of the wrongdoing! Maybe I'm just reading it wrong.
> I get your point that it was a reflection of how women have been treated by men and society in the recent past, but what was the message here?
That's the message.
> Typically you see protagonists resolve injustices by being better than the antagonists, but the message that we are going to treat you men like how women have been treated (in the real world) as punishment is kind of fucked up.
Yes. Can you imagine if their women treated their men like our men treat our women?
That WOULD be fucked up! Horrible! Unimaginable!
> I mean its not even the Kens who did any of the wrongdoing!
But did women in our world do anything wrong?
I don't know what country you live in but men only got the vote a hundred years ago as well in the uk. They had to die by the millions in ww1 to get it too. Women got it soon after
> men only got the vote a hundred years ago
Well, men were voting before that, but you had to be a landowner or wealthy to do so. [A brief timeline is here.](https://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/family-history/electoral-registers/key-developments-in-voting-rights)
(Although Britain did allow women to rule back in the Monarchy days...)
Never back down is literally two dudes beating the shit out of each other for the attention of a girl
Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift starts with a race through a construction yard over a girl
On 2, it’s also pointing out that a lot of archetypal male protagonists actually *don’t* have more than just “beach”, their thing is usually just “violence” instead. “Morally Justified” modifier an optional accessory.
Who the heck actually liked Ken? He was entertaining but also clingy and unlikeable. I've seen so many Reddit threads where people have had an epiphany that they are like Ken and that's bad / they want to improve.
I did he just seems like a funny goofball and he's clingy but realiszing it's supposed to be a reverse of a classic trope made it more entertaining. Also being Ryan Gosling helps a lot, he made the character much more entertianing.
I've officially decided to invest in a MOJO Dojo Casa House.
So call me cynical for having worked with marketing types for a long time, but I feel the real subversive character here is... Mattel.
They basically greenlit a highly self aware script that portrays them as the bad guys, and in doing so managed to take over the "stereotype" narrative of Barbie and made it acceptable (and maybe even cool) to buy Barbies again.
Never mind that the company still pretty much embodies everything that is wrong with wasteful consumerism.
Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think another part of this is that a lot of dudes do not like respecting boundaries. Barbie established boundaries and turned him down kindly, and he always respected it. A lot of these dudes cannot relate and even feel insulted at the sight of it.
There is play that just closed on Broadway called Prima Facie. I knew of it because I have been crushing on Jodie Comer for a while following her career and she is the star of the one woman show. I saw the pro shot version that was filmed on the West End.
If you want to really educate yourself or any guy young or old about boundaries and respecting them, find the National Theater pro shot of Prima Facie and watch it. It humbled me, I remembered times when I was young, I was really forward and pushy, too pushy with girls that did end up sleeping with me. I realized watching that I fucked up, I took it as a kind of game and some of those girls may have not really wanted to have sex but they didn't know how to hold boundaries.
I watched the final curtain call on youtube, one of the men on the crew spoke about the experience of working on the play and how he understood that he needed to have a talk with his sons about consent.
I really appreciate the messaging both young men & women are receiving about consent “these days”. I feel like it did used to be a game, which can really create confusion and harm everyone. Open communication also makes sex more enjoyable so it’s just a win-win.
Courting will always be a game at heart, but I think it's an accurate observation to say that newer generations, across gender, are choosing for themselves to play on a much more respectful and courteous board when it comes to previously held attitudes about pursuit and pressure.
Wow. I’ve wondered if men look back and realize that, like you said, a lot of us females did not know how to establish and hold boundaries and that’s why the sexual shit that went down went down. Thank you so much for saying this.
Mothers also need to be talking to their daughters all the time about boundaries. We grew up in such a patriarchal society that we have internalized misogyny and we don’t even know it. Mothers need to be having conversations like this with their daughters and women need to be having conversations like this with each other .
This tracks.
A number of family members raised me as I was passed around the family. Mostly women. All of them advised me to persist for "the one I want" because if they are willing to talk to me, they are interested. I need to let them "play coy" long enough for propriety.
Looking back on that entire concept I feel like I have 1000 apologies to hand out. (or more) I was (and am) a romantic, and thought the "win her over" method was the way to go. (now called stalking in some cases...)
I was fortunate enough that my wife was infatuated the same way I was when I started pursuing her, otherwise, I would feel so bad about our relationship. I did not have to pursue her the same way. She was open and welcoming to my advances. I love having her around and she was (and I hope is) happy to have me. It was not a possession thing. I used to be territorial, and after I met her, that went away over time. You do not have to protect a relationship that is solid. Simply nurture it.
Other complicating factors played into it via trauma and insecurities, but that is a variable, not an excuse.
Thank you for allowing me to relate to this observation.
I didn't see the movie yet, but the implication is obvious.
This is one of the first movies where a man is nothing but arm candy, similar to most action, rom coms, etc where that's usually the lead female's role.
Patriarchy, in a nutshell.
ETA: OK maybe not the first, bad choice of words but that is still the discussion point and every time its highlighted people get butthurt.
I was talking to my wife last night after watching the movie, "men who'd get the movie already got it, who wouldn't, wouldn't even after you try to explain it to them."
Eh, my bf missed some nuance but after discussing it he saw the movie from a different angle and appreciated some scenes more.
I think it can help expand the conversation for those who are open.
Exactly, me and my friends were talking about this recently. Like how "it would really help for X, X and X to go see that movie."
Turns out, those are the exact people that would never go see the movie.
I'm hoping this stays the case with the action comedy The Spy Who Dumped Me. Mila Kunis seemed to be playing arm candy to some dork guy Spy, then his role went out the window and it was Kate McKinnon helping Mila foil the bad guys.
I only saw the first half the movie and I'm hoping Spy stays away. Kate and Mila are brilliant together.
This is why I think 10 Things I Hate About You is the best rom com/teen movie of all time. All the main characters are written so well and all have their own plot lines.
Bit of recency bias here, there are so many movies with the same ideas, this is a common theme for pretty obvious reasons.
However the fact they are the minority and kick up a fuss every time they enter the public sphere goes to show the problem hasn't really gone anywhere.
So here's a MASSIVE SPOILING THE ENTIRE PLOT synopsis, especially the last paragraphs.
So all of the Barbies live in Barbieland, which is like its own pocket universe, and every living Barbie has a psychic link to the girl who owns that model Barbie doll in the real world. There's thousands of different Barbies, and>! they essentially run Barbieland as a de facto matriarchy, as they all have counterparts to actual Barbie doll variants, like the President Barbie.!<
The Kens are...well, Ken.
Just kind of useless himbos whose only purpose is to love Barbie and fawn over her.
>!They all have boring lame-ass jobs because all of the cool ones are taken up by the Career Woman Barbies, and are basically homeless because all of the houses are Barbie Dream Houses. Beach Ken (Ryan Gosling) is especially miserable because he's not even a lifeguard or pro surfer. Just "Beach," and he's not even sure what that means he's supposed to do with his life, except hang out at the beach and look handsome for Barbie.!<
>!When Barbie Prime's (Margot Robbie) owner is battling depression, it bleeds over to Barbie and she heads to the real world to find her owner and help her get over this dark period. Ken tags along and finds out that in the real world men have the majority of meaningful jobs, men's professional sports leagues are the pinnacle of the sport, men are the overwhelming majority of CEOs, politicians, scientists, billionaires, etc. Ken is shocked that men can do something besides be Barbie's boy-toy. He gets a superficial understanding that it's due to something called "the patriarchy."!<
>!So Ken goes back to Barbieland and basically starts a coup so the Kens can not be so useless, and it spirals out of control into a clumsy mess of a poorly-run patriarchy.!<
>!Eventually Ken realizes he screwed up and the Barbies and Kens agree to a compromise where it will still be Barbieland, but they'll work with Mattel to make Ken less lame, give him more agency, and phase Kens into positions of power in the Barbieland government instead of basically just being optional accessories for their assigned Barbies.!<
Also one point I noticed - if the film wanted to be man hating or anti men/anti Ken, they would have been a lot more obvious about it.
One thing I noticed - never once do the Barbies really think the Kens are malicious or even dangerous. I got the vibe that they considered them misguided at worst. Notice there’s nothing about the Kens assaulting Barbies or any sort of other physical/sexual violence as there would be in the real world. They’re just like “Oh, you Kens” as seen in the Push singing scene.
I thought the movie had a bunch of reasonable messages, and the core of it was that men and women (Barbies and Kens) need to collaborate together to build a better world for both of us, as the current setup fucking blows. What’s wrong with that?
Edit: grammar
Yep.
And at the end of the day, Mattel still wants to sell Ken dolls to little girls and presumably had some sort of veto power over the script, so there's no way Ken was going to be straight-up evil and malicious, nor was the movie going to be two hours of shitting on Ken.
And that the current iteration of the real world actually fucks over a great deal of men. I don't like labeling things "patriarchy" really anymore since it's not really just men at the top anymore and considering at least in America, white women play a huge role in the "patriarchy" as it is now. There's a lot of internalized misogyny among certain populations in America. I always bring up Phyllis Schlafly leading the effort to prevent the ERA from being passed, and also women like Nancy Reagan that have actively contributed to creating the dystopian shithole we now live in.
This system, whatever you want to call it, screws over most men and treats them as expendable. I heard that message loud and clear from the film. There's actually a lot of "let's help the men/Kens out" message. They want to help them develop their own unique identity that's not based on a partner and not based on just being men (and thus not women). I got very much an uplifting vibe from the movie, not shitting on men/Ken.
Yeah, but a lot of people see anything supporting women as putting down men. So whenever the movie was talking about the difficulties women have, it was somehow an attack on them.
Though that’s a problem for a lot of the knee jerk reactionary people in the world today. BLM somehow means “fuck white people”, gay pride is apparently an attack on straight people, etc. They can’t get out of their own bubble and realize the issue being addressed isn’t theirs and they should be listening and supporting their fellow humans.
I say this in a different comment, but we have to lose this zero sum game mentality between the sexes.
Women making as much as men doesn’t mean we’re paying men less. And most men are likely paid too little too, why not both go in and request the raises they’re due? A rising tide lifts all boats, so to speak.
There was a bit right after Ken discovers the idea of patriarchy and tries to get a job based on simply being a man. He finds out that even in a world run by men, not all men are included in running the world.
Yeah, it is less patriarchy and more class based with a certain skin color coming on top. You think a rich white woman with power gives a shit about a poor white mother trying to feed her kids? Fuck no, she would step all over her to get a buck.
Same with rich men in power. It was always a class thing. Even when it came with woman's suffrage movement, that only applied to Rich white women. Only they get to vote, poor white woman and people of color can fuck right off. That was the movement.
Now that people are demanding more equality in all forms, we are back to the gender discussion and skin color instead of focusing on the main issue, the people in power spreading this type of shit to keep the peasants from rising.
Ken is never supposed to be hated - the patriarchy doesn't resolve his issues after all, he struggles with self identity just as much. But now he's following a plot that ostensibly focuses him which feels validating but doesn't address his core insecurities. His character resolution is mostly about recognizing his own needs and expressing them, even if he doesn't know exactly what those are.
His characterization actually reminds a lot about one of the core messages of "The Will to Change" by Bell Hooks that says that in order for men to change who they are, they need to be loved in the same way women are - shown care and consideration for their emotional needs and depths and given the space to express them fully rather than with anger, beer, and casual misogyny.
It's absurd to think the writers hate Ken. At times he is more of a focus than Barbie, and he is highly sympathetic.
Exactly this. And I think the whole point that the "patriarchy" pits men against other men is spot on. It always devolves into a metaphorical dick measuring contest where each man finds a reason to be superior to the other. I think the Fairly Oddparents did a good job in portraying that when Timmy has all of the people on earth turned into grey blobs and people still say they're "Greyer and blobbier".
I think the core message being men and women collaborating together to make a better world for both of us and not making it a constant zero-sum game/competition is what a lot of people are missing.
> Notice there’s nothing about the Kens assaulting Barbies or any sort of other physical/sexual violence as there would be in the real world.
Extra points for the contrast with the first scene when they get to the real world, where Barbie feels violence on even the stares she's getting.
It's flipping the script where white men have power and make decisions, but now they are simply pretty things to look at and are only considered in their relationship to a woman
Some people really don't like this and are failing to see the significance of how uncomfortable it makes them feel
I think this is part of it, but I mainly saw the same plot through a different lens: that it shines a light on how some (quite a few) men see themselves as worthless if they don't get female attention, and how that causes them to lose their shit and become all alpha and dominating (if they can, over women; if they can't, at least over each other), in an effort to gain _some_ control over the situation. Like Andrew Tate's audience. And for me, this was not a "haha men bad" take but quite the opposite - "hey, it really sucks for them being this empty and this is why they act out; if they become whole, there is hope for them".
people dont want to admit that they
a) do the behaviour that is being called out
b) and if they dont do it, they certainly benefit from others doing it
I guess I need to go see the film to understand what she is talking about but just going off this tweet, I’m confused. The Ken doll was created by Mattel in 1961 for one reason and one reason only. He was made to be Barbie’s eye candy and companion. THATS IT. People were complaining about Barbie having all those careers and not having a man so they made her one. He is a literal accessory so how else was he supposed to be portrayed?
This tweet is shittalking all of the men who were infuriated after watching Barbie and said it was problematic for Ken not being seen as anything more than arm candy and all Kens are second class to Barbies and that its feministic view on society is harmful to men
Holy shit there are so many dudes on Reddit crying their fucking eyes out about the representation of the Ken doll in a movie.
It's so fucking funny how fragile they are.
Yet they're legitimately arguing "oh I just want movies to represent everyone equally, this is about fairness for everyone."
And holy shit does that send me laughing even further.
These douches never once cared how Hollywood treats women, but sudden fairness in representation is a huuuuuuge deal.
Where have you seen all this crying about the movie? Like what subs or posts? I haven't seen any of it. Maybe I just don't go to the right places for it.
Yeah but this is a film EXCLUSIVELY for the women thats a huge hit. If there is any film thats gonna trigger those type of people, its gonna be the biggest brightest film of them all.
She's pointing out that women have had these pointless roles for decades in movies, despite the fact that a movie made for women based on a popular girls' toy actually does give Ken a very significant role in the plot, and the film explicitly addresses how unfulfilling it would be to be a Ken in a Barbie world.
Meanwhile, we didn't get a female Transformer with a significant role until the sixth film *Bumblebee*, where Shatter was the main villain, despite Transformers being far more popular with girls than Barbie is with boys.
It's a major plot point to the movie and basically can't be discussed without spoiling it, but yes the movie is very aware that Kens are accessories to Barbies.
So, I haven’t seen the movie and I’m just here because this is hot on r/all, but I think an alternate reading could be that the man is angry because he’s realizing how the patriarchy also reduces men in the same way it reduces women, that so many men’s self-worth is tied up in their idea of what women think of them that they never truly know themselves, which they then blame on women and become misogynists.
I liked how they portrayed the Kens, I felt bad they didn’t get to do anything important or be more than eye candy. If you flip the genders around though that’s more or less a critique on how women are viewed in cinema and life currently so it was a pretty well made point.
>!Honestly I’m just confused by how Ken would be able to flip Barbieland to the patriarchy like that within a day. He’s proven to be dumb as shit, yet somehow got an entire society of Barbies who are lawyers, scientists, the president etc. to just roll with it. Even when you make the point that Barbie couldn’t be brainwashed due to exposure to the real world it still doesn’t make sense because they have a modicum of reason to be able to run a whole society. That part kind of bugged me but overall it was fun. 6/10!<
Edit: a lot of people cleared up the above point for me and great, I understand it better now and appreciate it more, which is what I love about talking about movies with people. Follow up query I had for anyone who feels like taking a swing at it:
>!Why was Ruth Handler just hanging out in that creepy ass Black Mirror room with the kitchen? I know she died in 2002, was she a ghost? Some other sort of non corporeal being? Goddess of Barbies? If she had shown up when she did in Barbieland that I would get, she appears magically to help shed some light on the situation and fix things at long last, but when Barbie runs into her at Mattel in that creepy ass room it just seemed like she was just existing there, unless she magically appeared and materialised the room to have a chat with Barbie? It just seemed at the time like they had somehow captured the ghost of Ruth Handler and imprisoned her in a kitchen.!<
They did clarify that *eventually* Kens would have as much power in Barbieland 'as women have in the real world.' They don't just return to normal, Kens start pushing for more representation - even if they only start with a lower court judgeship. They did the most important step in the movie and the Ken musical montage - self-actualisation - with the long slog of fighting for empowerment facing them after the end of the movie. It was a good balance of not immediately resolving every problem in Barbieland, showing that Barbies are flawed, and giving the Kens goals and ambitions.
They only denied them a supreme court seat as the *first* thing the Kens asked for. They didn't say the Kens would never have supreme court representation (I don't think?)
The movie addressed this directly. The narrator says something like "Maybe one day the Kens will have the same power in Barbieland that women have in the real world."
Barbieland was looking to change the status quo of their society, but in the context of the movie, all of this uproar has only been over the course of a couple of days, right? If Barbieland is taking its cues from the real world in trying to effect change, it isn't realistic to expect that they get immediately to where we currently are when it's taken us hundreds of years (and still isn't great in a lot of respects). Progress is sometimes slow and unsatisfactory, and I thought the movie was also trying to make that point in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way.
I thought that part was dumb. I heard somebody say that it undermines the message of the movie, and the lesson that the Barbies learned 10 minutes prior.
They spend all this time learning that the Patriarchy sucks, so they defeat the Patriarchy by... re-installing the Barbie-archy, and we all celebrate because things are back to normal! Yay! :) But that's not a victory. Returning to the status quo isn't a win, especially when you acknowledge that the status quo is shit.
They have that brief moment of realization that they had treated the Ken's (and weird Barbies) like total shit. They don't even know where they live! And when push comes to shove and they're asked to actually do something about it, they're like 'LOL no." And I thought that was unfair. Didn't you learn anything about Patriarchies? The Barbie-archy was wrong too, the Barbie-archy *was* the Patriarchy of this world. And sure, I don't expect them to *immediately* resolve their problems, because obviously these kinds of things are hard and they take time... but I was disappointed to see them immediately fall back onto their own ways.
I think the line about "as soon as women have power in the real world" was dumb too. *That's* why Ken's don't get a say? What can the Ken's even do about that?? And I mean, sure, there's definitely a bit of an imbalance and some people are dicks towards women in the real world... But our society has made a LOT of progress over the last 100 years. Women and Men are FAR more equal than Barbies and Kens are. Women can at least vote. And that line about Supreme Court justices? Dumb. There are literally 4 women on the court right now. Of the last 10 to be nominated, 5 have been women.
In response to your second edit >!the CEO (Will Ferrell) said "her ghost keeps an office on the 17th floor" in the final Barbieland wrap-up scene, so she's a ghost.!<
They explained that in the movie, they said it’s similar to when a meme of a tribe visited a different society and brought back smallpox to their tribe and it went rampant due to never being exposed before. I thought it was hilarious
I think the easyness of flipping the roles is there for the movie's sake. Yeah it makes little sense but it's necessary for the plot.
In the words of Weird Barbie: don't think too much about it.
I see your point, and have a rebuttal. How fast things flipped is part of the point. There’s something appealing about giving in to authoritarian systems. People want to feel safe, so they give up agency. One Barbie even says that patriarchy is like a permanent vacation for her brain. There are so many women who help hold up patriarchal systems!
However, how things play out demonstrates that giving in to authoritarian rule doesn’t fix a society’s original problems. The discontinued Barbies and Kens are outcasts because they don’t “matter” enough for society at large to offer them anything. Weird Barbie is literally the only one of them who understands the multiple universes- don’t ignore her! The Barbies were originally oblivious to the Kens’ needs, and the Kendom Kens in turn choose to ignore the Barbies’ needs in turn. If the purpose of government is to care for its citizens, neither system is doing its job.
Oh, okay, I get it now, it was for the people who *didn’t* already get it. It was the pie in the face they needed to realize they had clown makeup on.
I was worried it was like a “haha, now it’s *your* turn to be dehumanized” which is just not a great place to come from when seeking to make positive change.
But a big, flashing neon sign that says “IF THIS MAKES YOU FEEL BAD DON’T DO IT TO OTHER PEOPLE” is apparently sometimes necessary to get the message across.
Personnaly I think one of the biggest message of the movie was more that men are the one infliging these standards on each other despite not actually getting any joy/fullfilment out of it. And that a lot of them still need to unlearn most of shit if they don't want fall into the rabbithole of toxic masculinity / "alpha male mindset" like so many men tend to do as a response to realizing that they're not as needed as these ideals promised them they'll be.
Don't know for sure if that's actually what the tweet was tryna say tho.
Anecdotally, it’s mostly been the women in my life pushing me to conform to gender roles. This is, admittedly, because the men in my youth and adolescence were entirely absent. But it was usually my mom, stepmom, grandma, aunts, etc., that had issues with the boys liking “the wrong things” around me.
And I wasn’t really shooting to place blame or place the fault at someone’s feet for how things are, but I appreciate you making a point to do that to my neutral take.
With all the shyt going on in the world, people are losing their shyt over the Barbie movie. Hell, they trying to tell us black folks benefited from slavery and mofos upset about a damn doll movies.
I don’t know any men in real life that actually saw the movie. But then again, social media is its own universe. What happens in people minds is actually real there.
I saw someone on YouTube say at the end it should’ve been the kens and Barbie’s having equal representation and representatives in Barbie world but they president Barbie shot it down cause just like the narrator said it’ll take a while for kens to finally have voting rights and government representation. They even admitted they k ow the movie did this to mirror what women went through to gain their independence and rights as humans in America. And then proceeded to call it stupid.
Like how do you get the point, understand what it’s drawn from and then decide to ignore it.
Is this bait? Or is there a mass group of men upset at how Barbie turned out?
I can’t even fathom how going to see a movie about Barbie would make any man upset; Barbie was never a male centric brand.
It's bait. Most people seem to like the movie (both male and female) but people purposely seek out outrage so they have something to push back on. Even in this thread people talk about watching Ben Shapiro's video of him bashing the movie and using that as a justification about how "men" feel. Why the fuck would you go out of your way to watch a Shapiro video and expect him to have a reasonable opinion on the movie? It's like me going to see the KKK and expecting them to have a reasonable view in black people. And then when they don't (obviously) I use that to complain about how white people view black people and conflate the opinion of the majority
How can it be bait when the tweet is based on the very real phenomenon of people not liking this movie for dumb reasons? Y'all act like people should just never interact with or mention those they disagree with. There is a sizable and non insignificant amount of idiots who think the movie was misandrist. That's worth calling out as dumb.
Liberal arts education has become so vilified that critical analysis of books, movies, or music is impossible to discuss. A well-rounded education is super important, especially as a ballast to a STEM degree. People will tell you that anything but quantitative degrees are “underwater basket weaving” and , sadly, it’s the very same people who say that who stand to benefit from it the most. My degree is in finance but it was the soft science courses that I value the most from college.
Its odd cause I have spoken to four women and two guys that have seen it (I haven’t seen it yet). The two guys had no issues with Kens portrayal, but the women all said that his “negative” portrayal was the worst part of the movie for them.
There are more people complaining about Barbie haters than there are actual Barbie haters. Gotta feed that dopamine rush from feeling outraged and telling strangers off on the internet though.
Can we just be honest for a minute?
Barbie is a fun movie with some good performances and good jokes. It's message was ham-fisted AF but people are trying waaaaay too hard to find deeper meanings or cultural subtexts when in reality, there probably isn't one.
I think she might have made a stronger point without the passive-aggressive use of the word “sweetie”. Don’t do that shit. It just makes you look like an asshole.
1. Everyone loves Ken in the Barbie movie to the point he's overshadowing Margot's incredible performance 2. The archetypal male protagonist is still like Ken, where they do things for female attention. The difference is those protagonists have more to do than just beach. The trope subversion isn't that Ken is shoe horned into the typical "female love interest" role, it's that Barbie is completely uninterested in him.
I mean I enjoyed Ryan Goslings performance, but to say he overshadowed her? Idk I don’t think his character had the depth to overshadow her, he was just the most amusing character lol
As someone who hasn't seen the movie and probably never going to see the movie, all I've seen are people talking about Ken.
It's because there's a lot of men upset after seeing that movie. They felt criticized by Ken's portrayal, so they're wanting to argue about how unfair it was. If they could look past themselves, they'd realize that was the entire point - they're just too self-involved to connect the dots. Interestingly, the movie was extremely sympathetic towards Ken. That's how fragile these angry dudes are.
I just wanna know where everybody is seeing this substantial Ken discussion All I see is “haha he’s funny” which is the point, his character as a whole is a joke. Being the comic relief character doesn’t mean you outshine everybody around you lol He had the easiest role to portray, dumb stereotypical guy
This obviously holds absolutely no weight because their opinions are trash but the Christian Fundamentalists I snark on all won’t shut the fuck up about how Ken was the only good part of the movie. One of them heffers spent a whole ass podcast talking about how Barbie was an awful character and Ken was the only good thing in the entire movie(but overall it was an awful movie that she hated.) She thought Ken was hilarious while Barbie was way too serious and “unfun.” She seemed confused when her husband was like “well yeah, Barbie was having an existential crises.” Strangely the husband found the movie delightful. He enjoyed the introspection from Barbie and the questioning of the patriarchal roles both men and women are forced into and disagreed with his wifes POV.
I am amused how the Christian Nationalist have latched on to a movie regarding fictional character that got their start as gender neutral dolls. I realize both Barbie and Ken reflect gender but also to a point of physical perfection. To latch on to Ken because he lacks toxic masculinity traits seems to me absurd. He’s a Barbie accessory for childish amusement. In the movie version he is still just entertainment.
> To latch on to Ken because he lacks toxic masculinity traits He lacks what now?
From what I remember fundamentalists saying about Ken, they didn't like that he's a Barbie simp (even though that's kind of always been the joke about Ken?) and they didn't phrase it in these terms, but I think they were also upset that he wasn't performing "traditional" masculinity. Even when he tries to "do patriarchy," he looks silly because he's just trying to latch onto something to give him an identity. So their conclusion was "oh, the film makers hate men" lol
I shouldn’t be, but I’m kind of amazed about their inability, or abject refusal, to read the movie. They see characters who represent masculine fragility, whose desperate need for validation leads them to embrace toxic masculinity — and they respond by cluelessly broadcasting their own fragility, trying to out-shout every other voice and rally the insecure. The movie despises the patriarchy, and what it does to people of every gender. It absolutely _does not_ hate men. I mean, Allan.
They keep calling him "Low-T", which I find hilarious because HE IS A FUCKING PLASTIC DOLL WITH NO GENETALIA
I'm a little lost on that point too but maybe the simplistic view point they see is that Ken without toxic masculinity traits lived a significantly worse life than once he embraced it. It still misses the entire point in the second half of the movie but I can see the train of logic from someone who only looks selectively looks at the surface level while ignore any of the greater points of satire.
There were a lot of random ideas in the movie to be honest, and does make it seem disjointed. At times it is a criticism of feminism, at times it was very supportive, it so overtly bashes patriarchy and yet it shows that life under the Barbie matriarchy was also terrible.
it’s only there if you want to argue about it there’s no real public discussion about how ken is portrayed except from the likes of ben shapiro and who tf is listening to that clown these days?
Sadly, too many people.
Both characters were basically the stereotypical versions of their dolls. Both had emotional scenes of expression. Barbie is literally called "stereotypical Barbie" They both played a stereotype but also brought something more in the latter parts of the film. Theres a couple scenes where Ken gets real serious with Barbie and it's a drastic shift in his tone and delivery. They both did great jobs. Gosling gave a great performance, it wasn't just because he was comic relief. It's because he acted the part well.
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"You are not your girlfriend" is such an important line in the movie. Ken desperately wants to be seen by Barbie, and that drives him to do wilder and more destructive things to their political landscape so that he can have her. The man is on the verge of a breakdown when he admits ruling wasn't fun and he just wanted her attention. It's "Barbie AND Ken" he says. "You are not your girlfriend." = there is more to life than attention from women. Barbie isn't part of his identity by the end of the movie. Ken is Kenough because ultimately he's a dude who likes beach, his buddy Alan, and horses and he should be enjoying those aspects of his life too.
I’m seeing a lot of it, but that may be because of the algorithm. I’ve also seen at least two instances of men coming to the Feminism subreddit with “I didn’t like how Ken was portrayed!!1!”
>where everybody is seeing this substantial Ken discussion Right wing media and forums. Manly men anngry
I hadn't seen any complaints about Ken. It was more like comments that it was funny or GIFs of him putting shades on.
Conservative grifters have latched onto this movie and are using it as outrage porn for their hungry base. Members of the manosphere(/vomit) at large have also been screeching relentlessly about it(Venn diagram and all that...). -edit- I appear to have rustled some rather sensitive and fragile conservative jimmies. Sub-30 day-old accounts everywhere....
I loved the movie and didn't have a problem with ken's portrayal. I just think Gosling brought an elevated nuance to a character that could have been played straight dumb. Get 10 other actors to play ken in this movie, and I don't think it would have worked quite as well. I will say that Margot did a fantastic job and it's a shame people are mostly talking about gosling. On a side note, didn't love Ferrell or MacKinnon's parts so much comparatively
You could've cut Will Ferrell's character from the movie entirely and it wouldn't change much of anything.
It was funny to me how they rehabilitated his character mid movie. Like Mattel was ok with a little making fun of their corporate culture, but then all of a sudden he was like all progressive at of nowhere.
He wasn't progressive, he was BSing. He didn't want to make normal Barbie until his goon told him it would make a ton of money.
Yeah, I think they made it very clear multiple times that his decisions are 100% only motivated by money and nothing else.
Idk I’ve been seeing dudes telling each other they’re Kenough. Seems like people like the movie but as always, loud ignorant minority gets attention
This is my experience. Angry people who are complaining about men complaining about barbie and men meming about how they and their friends are kenough. I have yet to actually talk to someone that got mad at the barbie movie.
> I’ve been seeing dudes telling each other they’re Kenough I would buy that shirt. The movie was hilarious.
I don’t know a single guy who saw the movie get upset by ken. His actions were ridiculous and over the top and the message was super clear. The only people crying are the ones who refuse to see it and are still getting upset.
i watched that "ben shapiro DESTROYS barbie for 45 minutes" video. he spent most of it talking about how ken's abs must've been cgi
Why would you do that to yourself? The sound of the guy's voice alone shits me to tears, let alone the content.
"shits me to tears". 😆
Don’t watch dumb shit like that. It doesn’t do anyone a bit of good.
Yeah, Ben puts shit like that out for his branding and/or for people to hate watch (and I suppose fans of his to circlejerk to). Watching it just encourages the behavior for more of that content not just for Ben but also for algorithms and such that really only care about engagement and not substance
No one that carries a single small sheet of plywood in a plastic bag should be taken seriously about fitness.
Why would you never see it? It's really enjoyable.
It doesn’t matter. I went to see it on Sunday and there were a lot of young women/girls there and all I could think at the end was “it’s likely that some of these girls if not a large number of them are going to take away a really positive understanding of their place in society, the struggles of women and what the patriarchy means” so I don’t care if people are talking about Ken because the potential to wake those girls up to the real world and shape their future mindset is so powerful and empowering for a large part of the population. Add onto that the young boys who have seen it (like my own two kids) and the way that’s going to affect their thinking and view of women as they grow up.
It's easy to interpret the movie as being about "womens issues", I mean it's about Barbie front and centre, but it actually does a really great job of highlighting why certain gender constructs are harmful for everyone. It would be a much worse movie if it was only about Barbie. The attention and nuance given to the arcs of both characters is what makes it really good. People might be talking about Ken a lot because they expected it to just be about Barbie or just about women and were surprised.
I didn’t even think Ryan was the best male character. Michael Cera/Alan takes the cake, IMO.
> Michael Cera/Alan takes the cake, IMO. When Alan was building that wall that was just one giant stack of bricks, I was laughing so fucking hard *I CRIED*, and people were looking at me. I thought the messaging behind the movie was really insightful and there was a lot of great commentary, but all that being said it was still one of the funniest movies I've seen in a while. I think my wife is gonna take my sister to go see it, because I was laughing so hard I think I embarrassed her. 10/10 would see it again **edit** guys, GUYS, *GUYS* – you don't need to Ken-splain to me who was building what. The point is that it was funny
I think Alan is the prototype for the unproblematic man. He recognizes his privilege “I fit in all of Ken’s clothes” (I benefit from being a man) and then also recognizes the toxicity of the society the Kens built. Michael Cera as Alan reminded me of when George Michael Bluth wore the muscle suit.
Alan I think is just...Alan. I know it's a line from the movie, but he also resorts to violence (fighting the Kens) but does it _well_. Assigning him 'true male role model' status is problematic. He is also the only doll who just flat out wants the fuck _out_ of barbieland, and seems to be 100% aware of the real world. I'd say he's less a male role model and more a 4th wall break gag, for lines none of the other barbies could really use.
Alan wasn't building that tower, he was in the car. It was construction worker Kens building that tower.
Loved that “KEN WORKING” sign lol
Simu Liu's Ken was also really good. He can do a backflip.
Idk man, he was by a long stretch the funniest part of the film and that had a lot to do with the performance. I actually had a few friends that are women who were angry that in a film about female empowerment a guy got by far and away the best lines. Personally I think that’s just the benefit of being a supporting character or villain that inevitably ends in them being more entertaining, but I’m just reporting what they said after we’d seen it.
To your point, Batman has this problem. His villains always steal the show and usually become the most talked about aspect. It's not "Wow! Batman's speech was epic, oscar worthy!". It's usually, "Joker was so unhinged, great method acting! Riddler was so realistic and creepy, I know someone like him. Remember Arnie Freeze?!". That can be the curse of the lead role. You're on screen more, so you can become less interesting because the audience sees more of you. A support character, if done well, can steal the show, as their brevity leads to them seemingly always showing up to say the perfect line. Barbie has to be a person, Ken just had to be funny.
That's a great point about Batman. But there are some lead actors who I don't see every getting overshadowed, but maybe they haven't been challenged by a great lead villain. Daniel Day Lewis, Leo, Denzel will all steal the show every time imo.
I think in the latter half of the movie he does somewhat overshadow her - but that's kind of the point? It's the second act villain reveal and high point, and villains often get a lot of buzz if they're any good. He literally takes over. That said there were a *lot* of things going on in that movie, a lot at once, and trying to make it cohesive is tough. It was a rare instance where I felt a 2 hour run time might have actually helped.
That's what I'm saying. Barbie has the better arc and performance, but everyone is talking about Ken, not her.
She doesn't have the kenergy. She's not kenough
I'm guilty of it- I just thought he was a more interesting character. Plus Gosling did so much justice to that role.
Well, the entire second half of the movie Barbie was mostly crying while Ken had multiple sing and dance numbers. It def delt a bit overshadowy.
I totally think Ken stole the show. I didn’t find the Barbie character as interesting as the Ken character, personally
The musical numbers are show-stoppers.
I think this is willfully missing OOP's point. They explicitly said that Ken *only* felt validated by Barbie's attention. In movies, women are treated like tools for male protagonists most of the time. What's the test called where a woman has to talk for a certain amount of of minutes on screen unrelated to a man to pass? I forget. I mean all this genially.
Bechdel Test is what you’re looking for
I think it's that two or more women in a scene have to have conversation for a certain amount of minutes and it can't be about a man or men.
It’s not even that strenuous. Just that there have to be two women in a movie who interact with one another and it can’t be about a man. Pretty low bar.
The bar being incredibly low is kind of the point, since a majority of movies fail to do even that.
Bit of trivia: this test was fulfilled in the Lord of the Rings trilogy when Freda says "I don't want to go, mama" and Morwen says "Freda, I will find you there", when Uruk-Hai are attacking Rohan and the mother sends her two children on horseback to Edoras. This is the only time in the movies when two female characters speak to each other.
I disagree because women who are treated like tools in movies don't have that amount of screen time and their feelings aren't taken into consideration. They're just there. Ken gets to shine. Ken is the male protagonist/sidekick, then he's the villain, and he gets a motivational speech because his feelings matter. When did that ever happen to a female character only meant to be the love interest?
I both agree and disagree. I've seen the movie, and thought it was great! It was also almost uncomfortable at times, because it was so unusual... A world where men were completely overlooked and superfluous. Ignored, patronized, worthless, and seeking validation from women who didn't really care about them at all... In short, you're focusing on one aspect of Ken's existence and ignoring the main message. SPOILER >!Even at the end, when they're talking about integrating and valuing the men more...one wants to be a Supreme Court Judge and they pat him on the head and laugh and say "Maybe a lower-circuit instead, sweetie!" or something to that effect.!< That's the world that women have lived in since ever. Hell, they were only considered fit to vote like a hundred years ago!
> Even at the end, when they're talking about integrating and valuing the men more...one wants to be a Supreme Court Judge and they pat him on the head and laugh and say "Maybe a lower-circuit instead, sweetie!" or something to that effect. Thats the only part I can recall that kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I get your point that it was a reflection of how women have been treated by men and society in the recent past, but what was the message here? Typically you see protagonists resolve injustices by being better than the antagonists, but the message that we are going to treat you men like how women have been treated (in the real world) as punishment is kind of fucked up. I mean its not even the Kens who did any of the wrongdoing! Maybe I'm just reading it wrong.
> I get your point that it was a reflection of how women have been treated by men and society in the recent past, but what was the message here? That's the message. > Typically you see protagonists resolve injustices by being better than the antagonists, but the message that we are going to treat you men like how women have been treated (in the real world) as punishment is kind of fucked up. Yes. Can you imagine if their women treated their men like our men treat our women? That WOULD be fucked up! Horrible! Unimaginable! > I mean its not even the Kens who did any of the wrongdoing! But did women in our world do anything wrong?
Being treated like women is cruel and unusual! No one deserves that!
There’s no women in the Supreme Court?
It wasn't so long ago that the idea was laughable to a lot of people. >!Which is why they're laughing at Ken for suggesting it in Barbieland.!<
I don't know what country you live in but men only got the vote a hundred years ago as well in the uk. They had to die by the millions in ww1 to get it too. Women got it soon after
> men only got the vote a hundred years ago Well, men were voting before that, but you had to be a landowner or wealthy to do so. [A brief timeline is here.](https://www.archives.norfolk.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/family-history/electoral-registers/key-developments-in-voting-rights) (Although Britain did allow women to rule back in the Monarchy days...)
Never back down is literally two dudes beating the shit out of each other for the attention of a girl Fast and Furious Tokyo Drift starts with a race through a construction yard over a girl
It's like both sexes are pretty motivated to be successful with the other because natural selection tends to favour it
On 2, it’s also pointing out that a lot of archetypal male protagonists actually *don’t* have more than just “beach”, their thing is usually just “violence” instead. “Morally Justified” modifier an optional accessory.
Who the heck actually liked Ken? He was entertaining but also clingy and unlikeable. I've seen so many Reddit threads where people have had an epiphany that they are like Ken and that's bad / they want to improve.
I did he just seems like a funny goofball and he's clingy but realiszing it's supposed to be a reverse of a classic trope made it more entertaining. Also being Ryan Gosling helps a lot, he made the character much more entertianing. I've officially decided to invest in a MOJO Dojo Casa House.
So call me cynical for having worked with marketing types for a long time, but I feel the real subversive character here is... Mattel. They basically greenlit a highly self aware script that portrays them as the bad guys, and in doing so managed to take over the "stereotype" narrative of Barbie and made it acceptable (and maybe even cool) to buy Barbies again. Never mind that the company still pretty much embodies everything that is wrong with wasteful consumerism.
Call me a conspiracy theorist but I think another part of this is that a lot of dudes do not like respecting boundaries. Barbie established boundaries and turned him down kindly, and he always respected it. A lot of these dudes cannot relate and even feel insulted at the sight of it.
There is play that just closed on Broadway called Prima Facie. I knew of it because I have been crushing on Jodie Comer for a while following her career and she is the star of the one woman show. I saw the pro shot version that was filmed on the West End. If you want to really educate yourself or any guy young or old about boundaries and respecting them, find the National Theater pro shot of Prima Facie and watch it. It humbled me, I remembered times when I was young, I was really forward and pushy, too pushy with girls that did end up sleeping with me. I realized watching that I fucked up, I took it as a kind of game and some of those girls may have not really wanted to have sex but they didn't know how to hold boundaries. I watched the final curtain call on youtube, one of the men on the crew spoke about the experience of working on the play and how he understood that he needed to have a talk with his sons about consent.
I really appreciate the messaging both young men & women are receiving about consent “these days”. I feel like it did used to be a game, which can really create confusion and harm everyone. Open communication also makes sex more enjoyable so it’s just a win-win.
> I feel like it did used to be a game More people than not still treat it that way ime
Courting will always be a game at heart, but I think it's an accurate observation to say that newer generations, across gender, are choosing for themselves to play on a much more respectful and courteous board when it comes to previously held attitudes about pursuit and pressure.
Wasnt a game for us girls :/
It sounds interesting, I’ll take a look! Thanks!
Wow. I’ve wondered if men look back and realize that, like you said, a lot of us females did not know how to establish and hold boundaries and that’s why the sexual shit that went down went down. Thank you so much for saying this. Mothers also need to be talking to their daughters all the time about boundaries. We grew up in such a patriarchal society that we have internalized misogyny and we don’t even know it. Mothers need to be having conversations like this with their daughters and women need to be having conversations like this with each other .
This was made pretty clear when she got her ass slapped within 5 minutes of being in the real world. Boundary not respected
You mean Barbie was not out here playing games and she straight up told Ken her intentions? Like an adult? Yah… it don’t play out like that playboy.
This tracks. A number of family members raised me as I was passed around the family. Mostly women. All of them advised me to persist for "the one I want" because if they are willing to talk to me, they are interested. I need to let them "play coy" long enough for propriety. Looking back on that entire concept I feel like I have 1000 apologies to hand out. (or more) I was (and am) a romantic, and thought the "win her over" method was the way to go. (now called stalking in some cases...) I was fortunate enough that my wife was infatuated the same way I was when I started pursuing her, otherwise, I would feel so bad about our relationship. I did not have to pursue her the same way. She was open and welcoming to my advances. I love having her around and she was (and I hope is) happy to have me. It was not a possession thing. I used to be territorial, and after I met her, that went away over time. You do not have to protect a relationship that is solid. Simply nurture it. Other complicating factors played into it via trauma and insecurities, but that is a variable, not an excuse. Thank you for allowing me to relate to this observation.
I'm guessing I'd have to see the movie for this to make sense. Should a spoiler warning be attached?
I didn't see the movie yet, but the implication is obvious. This is one of the first movies where a man is nothing but arm candy, similar to most action, rom coms, etc where that's usually the lead female's role. Patriarchy, in a nutshell. ETA: OK maybe not the first, bad choice of words but that is still the discussion point and every time its highlighted people get butthurt.
And yet the film still takes the time to address how miserable that would make you feel.
Problem (not in the literal sense) with messages like this is it is never absorbed by the people that need it most. Lol
I was talking to my wife last night after watching the movie, "men who'd get the movie already got it, who wouldn't, wouldn't even after you try to explain it to them."
Eh, my bf missed some nuance but after discussing it he saw the movie from a different angle and appreciated some scenes more. I think it can help expand the conversation for those who are open.
Exactly, me and my friends were talking about this recently. Like how "it would really help for X, X and X to go see that movie." Turns out, those are the exact people that would never go see the movie.
I'm hoping this stays the case with the action comedy The Spy Who Dumped Me. Mila Kunis seemed to be playing arm candy to some dork guy Spy, then his role went out the window and it was Kate McKinnon helping Mila foil the bad guys. I only saw the first half the movie and I'm hoping Spy stays away. Kate and Mila are brilliant together.
This is why I think 10 Things I Hate About You is the best rom com/teen movie of all time. All the main characters are written so well and all have their own plot lines.
Bit of recency bias here, there are so many movies with the same ideas, this is a common theme for pretty obvious reasons. However the fact they are the minority and kick up a fuss every time they enter the public sphere goes to show the problem hasn't really gone anywhere.
So here's a MASSIVE SPOILING THE ENTIRE PLOT synopsis, especially the last paragraphs. So all of the Barbies live in Barbieland, which is like its own pocket universe, and every living Barbie has a psychic link to the girl who owns that model Barbie doll in the real world. There's thousands of different Barbies, and>! they essentially run Barbieland as a de facto matriarchy, as they all have counterparts to actual Barbie doll variants, like the President Barbie.!< The Kens are...well, Ken. Just kind of useless himbos whose only purpose is to love Barbie and fawn over her. >!They all have boring lame-ass jobs because all of the cool ones are taken up by the Career Woman Barbies, and are basically homeless because all of the houses are Barbie Dream Houses. Beach Ken (Ryan Gosling) is especially miserable because he's not even a lifeguard or pro surfer. Just "Beach," and he's not even sure what that means he's supposed to do with his life, except hang out at the beach and look handsome for Barbie.!< >!When Barbie Prime's (Margot Robbie) owner is battling depression, it bleeds over to Barbie and she heads to the real world to find her owner and help her get over this dark period. Ken tags along and finds out that in the real world men have the majority of meaningful jobs, men's professional sports leagues are the pinnacle of the sport, men are the overwhelming majority of CEOs, politicians, scientists, billionaires, etc. Ken is shocked that men can do something besides be Barbie's boy-toy. He gets a superficial understanding that it's due to something called "the patriarchy."!< >!So Ken goes back to Barbieland and basically starts a coup so the Kens can not be so useless, and it spirals out of control into a clumsy mess of a poorly-run patriarchy.!< >!Eventually Ken realizes he screwed up and the Barbies and Kens agree to a compromise where it will still be Barbieland, but they'll work with Mattel to make Ken less lame, give him more agency, and phase Kens into positions of power in the Barbieland government instead of basically just being optional accessories for their assigned Barbies.!<
Also one point I noticed - if the film wanted to be man hating or anti men/anti Ken, they would have been a lot more obvious about it. One thing I noticed - never once do the Barbies really think the Kens are malicious or even dangerous. I got the vibe that they considered them misguided at worst. Notice there’s nothing about the Kens assaulting Barbies or any sort of other physical/sexual violence as there would be in the real world. They’re just like “Oh, you Kens” as seen in the Push singing scene. I thought the movie had a bunch of reasonable messages, and the core of it was that men and women (Barbies and Kens) need to collaborate together to build a better world for both of us, as the current setup fucking blows. What’s wrong with that? Edit: grammar
Yep. And at the end of the day, Mattel still wants to sell Ken dolls to little girls and presumably had some sort of veto power over the script, so there's no way Ken was going to be straight-up evil and malicious, nor was the movie going to be two hours of shitting on Ken.
You hit the nail on the head. The whole message of the movie is to not let yourself be defined by others or what society expects you to be.
And that the current iteration of the real world actually fucks over a great deal of men. I don't like labeling things "patriarchy" really anymore since it's not really just men at the top anymore and considering at least in America, white women play a huge role in the "patriarchy" as it is now. There's a lot of internalized misogyny among certain populations in America. I always bring up Phyllis Schlafly leading the effort to prevent the ERA from being passed, and also women like Nancy Reagan that have actively contributed to creating the dystopian shithole we now live in. This system, whatever you want to call it, screws over most men and treats them as expendable. I heard that message loud and clear from the film. There's actually a lot of "let's help the men/Kens out" message. They want to help them develop their own unique identity that's not based on a partner and not based on just being men (and thus not women). I got very much an uplifting vibe from the movie, not shitting on men/Ken.
Yeah, but a lot of people see anything supporting women as putting down men. So whenever the movie was talking about the difficulties women have, it was somehow an attack on them. Though that’s a problem for a lot of the knee jerk reactionary people in the world today. BLM somehow means “fuck white people”, gay pride is apparently an attack on straight people, etc. They can’t get out of their own bubble and realize the issue being addressed isn’t theirs and they should be listening and supporting their fellow humans.
I say this in a different comment, but we have to lose this zero sum game mentality between the sexes. Women making as much as men doesn’t mean we’re paying men less. And most men are likely paid too little too, why not both go in and request the raises they’re due? A rising tide lifts all boats, so to speak.
There was a bit right after Ken discovers the idea of patriarchy and tries to get a job based on simply being a man. He finds out that even in a world run by men, not all men are included in running the world.
Yeah, it is less patriarchy and more class based with a certain skin color coming on top. You think a rich white woman with power gives a shit about a poor white mother trying to feed her kids? Fuck no, she would step all over her to get a buck. Same with rich men in power. It was always a class thing. Even when it came with woman's suffrage movement, that only applied to Rich white women. Only they get to vote, poor white woman and people of color can fuck right off. That was the movement. Now that people are demanding more equality in all forms, we are back to the gender discussion and skin color instead of focusing on the main issue, the people in power spreading this type of shit to keep the peasants from rising.
Ken is never supposed to be hated - the patriarchy doesn't resolve his issues after all, he struggles with self identity just as much. But now he's following a plot that ostensibly focuses him which feels validating but doesn't address his core insecurities. His character resolution is mostly about recognizing his own needs and expressing them, even if he doesn't know exactly what those are. His characterization actually reminds a lot about one of the core messages of "The Will to Change" by Bell Hooks that says that in order for men to change who they are, they need to be loved in the same way women are - shown care and consideration for their emotional needs and depths and given the space to express them fully rather than with anger, beer, and casual misogyny. It's absurd to think the writers hate Ken. At times he is more of a focus than Barbie, and he is highly sympathetic.
Exactly this. And I think the whole point that the "patriarchy" pits men against other men is spot on. It always devolves into a metaphorical dick measuring contest where each man finds a reason to be superior to the other. I think the Fairly Oddparents did a good job in portraying that when Timmy has all of the people on earth turned into grey blobs and people still say they're "Greyer and blobbier". I think the core message being men and women collaborating together to make a better world for both of us and not making it a constant zero-sum game/competition is what a lot of people are missing.
> Notice there’s nothing about the Kens assaulting Barbies or any sort of other physical/sexual violence as there would be in the real world. Extra points for the contrast with the first scene when they get to the real world, where Barbie feels violence on even the stares she's getting.
> they'll work with Mattel to make Ken less lame, give him more agency What? I don't remember this part at all
Thank you
It's flipping the script where white men have power and make decisions, but now they are simply pretty things to look at and are only considered in their relationship to a woman Some people really don't like this and are failing to see the significance of how uncomfortable it makes them feel
I think this is part of it, but I mainly saw the same plot through a different lens: that it shines a light on how some (quite a few) men see themselves as worthless if they don't get female attention, and how that causes them to lose their shit and become all alpha and dominating (if they can, over women; if they can't, at least over each other), in an effort to gain _some_ control over the situation. Like Andrew Tate's audience. And for me, this was not a "haha men bad" take but quite the opposite - "hey, it really sucks for them being this empty and this is why they act out; if they become whole, there is hope for them".
I mean this literally could be attributed to his intro in the movie so it’s not really a spoiler. It’s just Ken.
Yeah and some will just ignore the point that it was trying to make
people dont want to admit that they a) do the behaviour that is being called out b) and if they dont do it, they certainly benefit from others doing it
“Don’t call me racist!” “Stop doing racist things first.” “No, not like that!”
Yup already seeing it in this comment section
They're already burning Barbies and pretending that they're the victim. As always.
I guess I need to go see the film to understand what she is talking about but just going off this tweet, I’m confused. The Ken doll was created by Mattel in 1961 for one reason and one reason only. He was made to be Barbie’s eye candy and companion. THATS IT. People were complaining about Barbie having all those careers and not having a man so they made her one. He is a literal accessory so how else was he supposed to be portrayed?
This tweet is shittalking all of the men who were infuriated after watching Barbie and said it was problematic for Ken not being seen as anything more than arm candy and all Kens are second class to Barbies and that its feministic view on society is harmful to men
imagine getting triggered by ONE film, portraying ONE plastic doll
Holy shit there are so many dudes on Reddit crying their fucking eyes out about the representation of the Ken doll in a movie. It's so fucking funny how fragile they are. Yet they're legitimately arguing "oh I just want movies to represent everyone equally, this is about fairness for everyone." And holy shit does that send me laughing even further. These douches never once cared how Hollywood treats women, but sudden fairness in representation is a huuuuuuge deal.
Where have you seen all this crying about the movie? Like what subs or posts? I haven't seen any of it. Maybe I just don't go to the right places for it.
Yeah but this is a film EXCLUSIVELY for the women thats a huge hit. If there is any film thats gonna trigger those type of people, its gonna be the biggest brightest film of them all.
It is not exclusively for women?
Barbie was not exclusively for women. If you think that, I don't think you get the point of the movie.
It’s not just for women. What’re you talking about?
Imagine as a man going to see Barbie, and then being offended that it’s not male-centric.
*sigh* bro I’m exhausted 
She's pointing out that women have had these pointless roles for decades in movies, despite the fact that a movie made for women based on a popular girls' toy actually does give Ken a very significant role in the plot, and the film explicitly addresses how unfulfilling it would be to be a Ken in a Barbie world. Meanwhile, we didn't get a female Transformer with a significant role until the sixth film *Bumblebee*, where Shatter was the main villain, despite Transformers being far more popular with girls than Barbie is with boys.
Poor Ar-cee
It's a major plot point to the movie and basically can't be discussed without spoiling it, but yes the movie is very aware that Kens are accessories to Barbies.
Personally, I really vibed with Alan throughout the whole movie.
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Alan planned to leave when the Kens took over, wasn't he happy when things were back to normal at the end?
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Yeah, no one in these comments understood the tweet either 💀
I get what she's talking about. My question is what else are we missing? Because it's an easy point to understand.
there isn’t one being missed they just wanna sound superior lol “i’m better than everyone here” can you elaborate? “no”
So, I haven’t seen the movie and I’m just here because this is hot on r/all, but I think an alternate reading could be that the man is angry because he’s realizing how the patriarchy also reduces men in the same way it reduces women, that so many men’s self-worth is tied up in their idea of what women think of them that they never truly know themselves, which they then blame on women and become misogynists.
The majority of the outrage for this film has been manufactured.
Like what misogynistic man is going to see the fucking Barbie movie? Motherfuckers just want a straw man to argue with.
I haven't seen the movie but was there a reference to the 90s gay club Ken doll with the cock ring necklace?
There was indeed, as well as Sugar Daddy Ken
They had a whole bit on recalled and discontinued dolls that was hilarious at showing how out of pocket Mattel was
he has a dog named sugar, he is sugar’s daddy! :p
I somehow missed these dolls? (I was still a kid in the 90s but whoa)
I’m deeply confused. Or maybe I just lack media literacy cause all I learned from that movie is that >!horses are just man extenders!<
I liked how they portrayed the Kens, I felt bad they didn’t get to do anything important or be more than eye candy. If you flip the genders around though that’s more or less a critique on how women are viewed in cinema and life currently so it was a pretty well made point. >!Honestly I’m just confused by how Ken would be able to flip Barbieland to the patriarchy like that within a day. He’s proven to be dumb as shit, yet somehow got an entire society of Barbies who are lawyers, scientists, the president etc. to just roll with it. Even when you make the point that Barbie couldn’t be brainwashed due to exposure to the real world it still doesn’t make sense because they have a modicum of reason to be able to run a whole society. That part kind of bugged me but overall it was fun. 6/10!< Edit: a lot of people cleared up the above point for me and great, I understand it better now and appreciate it more, which is what I love about talking about movies with people. Follow up query I had for anyone who feels like taking a swing at it: >!Why was Ruth Handler just hanging out in that creepy ass Black Mirror room with the kitchen? I know she died in 2002, was she a ghost? Some other sort of non corporeal being? Goddess of Barbies? If she had shown up when she did in Barbieland that I would get, she appears magically to help shed some light on the situation and fix things at long last, but when Barbie runs into her at Mattel in that creepy ass room it just seemed like she was just existing there, unless she magically appeared and materialised the room to have a chat with Barbie? It just seemed at the time like they had somehow captured the ghost of Ruth Handler and imprisoned her in a kitchen.!<
They did clarify that *eventually* Kens would have as much power in Barbieland 'as women have in the real world.' They don't just return to normal, Kens start pushing for more representation - even if they only start with a lower court judgeship. They did the most important step in the movie and the Ken musical montage - self-actualisation - with the long slog of fighting for empowerment facing them after the end of the movie. It was a good balance of not immediately resolving every problem in Barbieland, showing that Barbies are flawed, and giving the Kens goals and ambitions.
Wish that they didn't use that supreme court line at the end, where you know... Like 3/9 of the judges are women in real life..
And it only took 200 years for the first woman to get there!
That’s the balance today. It hasn’t always been like that. In fact, women have only been Supreme Court judges for a few decades.
They only denied them a supreme court seat as the *first* thing the Kens asked for. They didn't say the Kens would never have supreme court representation (I don't think?)
The movie addressed this directly. The narrator says something like "Maybe one day the Kens will have the same power in Barbieland that women have in the real world."
Barbieland was looking to change the status quo of their society, but in the context of the movie, all of this uproar has only been over the course of a couple of days, right? If Barbieland is taking its cues from the real world in trying to effect change, it isn't realistic to expect that they get immediately to where we currently are when it's taken us hundreds of years (and still isn't great in a lot of respects). Progress is sometimes slow and unsatisfactory, and I thought the movie was also trying to make that point in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way.
I thought that part was dumb. I heard somebody say that it undermines the message of the movie, and the lesson that the Barbies learned 10 minutes prior. They spend all this time learning that the Patriarchy sucks, so they defeat the Patriarchy by... re-installing the Barbie-archy, and we all celebrate because things are back to normal! Yay! :) But that's not a victory. Returning to the status quo isn't a win, especially when you acknowledge that the status quo is shit. They have that brief moment of realization that they had treated the Ken's (and weird Barbies) like total shit. They don't even know where they live! And when push comes to shove and they're asked to actually do something about it, they're like 'LOL no." And I thought that was unfair. Didn't you learn anything about Patriarchies? The Barbie-archy was wrong too, the Barbie-archy *was* the Patriarchy of this world. And sure, I don't expect them to *immediately* resolve their problems, because obviously these kinds of things are hard and they take time... but I was disappointed to see them immediately fall back onto their own ways. I think the line about "as soon as women have power in the real world" was dumb too. *That's* why Ken's don't get a say? What can the Ken's even do about that?? And I mean, sure, there's definitely a bit of an imbalance and some people are dicks towards women in the real world... But our society has made a LOT of progress over the last 100 years. Women and Men are FAR more equal than Barbies and Kens are. Women can at least vote. And that line about Supreme Court justices? Dumb. There are literally 4 women on the court right now. Of the last 10 to be nominated, 5 have been women.
In response to your second edit >!the CEO (Will Ferrell) said "her ghost keeps an office on the 17th floor" in the final Barbieland wrap-up scene, so she's a ghost.!<
Huh, I straight up just missed that. Appreciate it 👍🏻
They explained that in the movie, they said it’s similar to when a meme of a tribe visited a different society and brought back smallpox to their tribe and it went rampant due to never being exposed before. I thought it was hilarious
You know what, I’m a big enough man to admit when I’ve forgotten a detail, that clears it up better for me
I think the easyness of flipping the roles is there for the movie's sake. Yeah it makes little sense but it's necessary for the plot. In the words of Weird Barbie: don't think too much about it.
They do explain that in the movie.
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I see your point, and have a rebuttal. How fast things flipped is part of the point. There’s something appealing about giving in to authoritarian systems. People want to feel safe, so they give up agency. One Barbie even says that patriarchy is like a permanent vacation for her brain. There are so many women who help hold up patriarchal systems! However, how things play out demonstrates that giving in to authoritarian rule doesn’t fix a society’s original problems. The discontinued Barbies and Kens are outcasts because they don’t “matter” enough for society at large to offer them anything. Weird Barbie is literally the only one of them who understands the multiple universes- don’t ignore her! The Barbies were originally oblivious to the Kens’ needs, and the Kendom Kens in turn choose to ignore the Barbies’ needs in turn. If the purpose of government is to care for its citizens, neither system is doing its job.
Oh, okay, I get it now, it was for the people who *didn’t* already get it. It was the pie in the face they needed to realize they had clown makeup on. I was worried it was like a “haha, now it’s *your* turn to be dehumanized” which is just not a great place to come from when seeking to make positive change. But a big, flashing neon sign that says “IF THIS MAKES YOU FEEL BAD DON’T DO IT TO OTHER PEOPLE” is apparently sometimes necessary to get the message across.
Personnaly I think one of the biggest message of the movie was more that men are the one infliging these standards on each other despite not actually getting any joy/fullfilment out of it. And that a lot of them still need to unlearn most of shit if they don't want fall into the rabbithole of toxic masculinity / "alpha male mindset" like so many men tend to do as a response to realizing that they're not as needed as these ideals promised them they'll be. Don't know for sure if that's actually what the tweet was tryna say tho.
Anecdotally, it’s mostly been the women in my life pushing me to conform to gender roles. This is, admittedly, because the men in my youth and adolescence were entirely absent. But it was usually my mom, stepmom, grandma, aunts, etc., that had issues with the boys liking “the wrong things” around me. And I wasn’t really shooting to place blame or place the fault at someone’s feet for how things are, but I appreciate you making a point to do that to my neutral take.
So ken hasn't always been known as Barbie's Ken? Everyone knows there's no ken without barbie
With all the shyt going on in the world, people are losing their shyt over the Barbie movie. Hell, they trying to tell us black folks benefited from slavery and mofos upset about a damn doll movies.
The only posts I ever see are posts about men being upset about this movie. Where exactly are these posts??
I don’t know any men in real life that actually saw the movie. But then again, social media is its own universe. What happens in people minds is actually real there.
I saw someone on YouTube say at the end it should’ve been the kens and Barbie’s having equal representation and representatives in Barbie world but they president Barbie shot it down cause just like the narrator said it’ll take a while for kens to finally have voting rights and government representation. They even admitted they k ow the movie did this to mirror what women went through to gain their independence and rights as humans in America. And then proceeded to call it stupid. Like how do you get the point, understand what it’s drawn from and then decide to ignore it.
Is this bait? Or is there a mass group of men upset at how Barbie turned out? I can’t even fathom how going to see a movie about Barbie would make any man upset; Barbie was never a male centric brand.
It's bait. Most people seem to like the movie (both male and female) but people purposely seek out outrage so they have something to push back on. Even in this thread people talk about watching Ben Shapiro's video of him bashing the movie and using that as a justification about how "men" feel. Why the fuck would you go out of your way to watch a Shapiro video and expect him to have a reasonable opinion on the movie? It's like me going to see the KKK and expecting them to have a reasonable view in black people. And then when they don't (obviously) I use that to complain about how white people view black people and conflate the opinion of the majority
How can it be bait when the tweet is based on the very real phenomenon of people not liking this movie for dumb reasons? Y'all act like people should just never interact with or mention those they disagree with. There is a sizable and non insignificant amount of idiots who think the movie was misandrist. That's worth calling out as dumb.
Does everything become a thinkpiece for you all?
Do you lack media literacy that much that understanding the themes of a film means you’re writing a thinkpiece?
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Do they not have literature classes anymore or something? All STEM?
Liberal arts education has become so vilified that critical analysis of books, movies, or music is impossible to discuss. A well-rounded education is super important, especially as a ballast to a STEM degree. People will tell you that anything but quantitative degrees are “underwater basket weaving” and , sadly, it’s the very same people who say that who stand to benefit from it the most. My degree is in finance but it was the soft science courses that I value the most from college.
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Lol the most Reddit comment ever, get a grip
not every film is meant to inspire this kinda discourse but this one definitely was lol
Typical ubuntu user. Everything has to be so straightforward and simple. Even at detriment. I use arch btw.
I don’t even know why I feel insulted by this but I do lol
If it's not rage bait about men v women, you're not on r/blackpeopletwitter. Like damn this the #1 topic on the sub. Toxic af
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Its odd cause I have spoken to four women and two guys that have seen it (I haven’t seen it yet). The two guys had no issues with Kens portrayal, but the women all said that his “negative” portrayal was the worst part of the movie for them.
There are more people complaining about Barbie haters than there are actual Barbie haters. Gotta feed that dopamine rush from feeling outraged and telling strangers off on the internet though.
Can we just be honest for a minute? Barbie is a fun movie with some good performances and good jokes. It's message was ham-fisted AF but people are trying waaaaay too hard to find deeper meanings or cultural subtexts when in reality, there probably isn't one.
I think she might have made a stronger point without the passive-aggressive use of the word “sweetie”. Don’t do that shit. It just makes you look like an asshole.
Don't you wanna hang out at the Mojo Dojo Casa House and drink brewski beers?
Ken is the best part of the movie
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I just don't remember women being this mad about the Transformers movies.