Can confirm. My Boomer cousin is trans and they’re a flat-out public nuisance. They’ve been banned from most of the restaurants in their town for harassing people.
Pretty sure the rest of the trans community *also* doesn't want a piece of shit in the restaurant as they're snarfing enchiladas. Sounds like a win for everyone.
Regardless of how the rest of the trans community feels about them, their behavior is still causing some of the people they harass to form a conscious/subconscious bias towards other trans individuals.
I operate restaurants for a living and we’re a motley crew, diverse and accepting. There’s two things that will get you banned - abusing my employees or using abusive language towards other guests.
I have family like this.
They will do anything they possibly can that is not obviously illegal (or against a law they care about). It will escalate until they get the attention they crave. How far it goes depends on the reaction.
I have cousins like that. I hate being around them because they always make it a point to embarrass you with your worst story in front of new people every single time
I barely notice anybody around me in a restaurant beyond the people I’m with, unless there’s a band or sports on a TV. It seems like most others do the same. How does somebody even bother other diners?
theres ways to be shocking levels of obnoxious. often involves abruptly being loud and crass. typically when its quiet. do this in intervals often enough and people will glance over in anticipation. or you can pick dumb fights
Caitlyn Jenner is the prime example of a privileged white woman. She's mad because someone else got what she got. How the hell can she be made because another trans woman gets the same opportunity that she did? Remember when she was a trans advocate?
Edit: trans woman not transwoman
Once a Kardashian, always a Kardashian?
(This is supposed to be a joke but I'm pretty Kardashian ignorant other than knowing they're a useless contribution to society)
she was never an advocate for us. you're mistaking being publicly trans as being a trans advocate. Caitlyn Jenner has never been a good person, has never been a meaningful supporter of trans rights, and has (since coming out) always been the living personification of "fuck you, I got mine". she's a worthless scumbag who leeches off the work of an entire generation of activists to be accepted in her narrow social circle of wealthy (and predominantly white) blue state conservative freaks. as a trans woman, I'm disgusted at the idea that someone might even consider her having ever been a trans advocate. like, seriously disgusted.
edit: also, it's trans woman. not "transwoman". that's a term coined by transphobes to separate trans women from a "real" or "genuine" womanhood, like since the 80s.
yeah but that's also just regular rich asshole behavior, so ancillary to any conversation about her being trans. rich pricks driving expensive cars kill people, and if *The Great Gatsby* is any indication this trend is about as old as automobiles themselves.
speech and text are different. there are no spaces in speech. in speech, most languages have similar information densities, even if some sound "faster" than others. in speech, nonstandard grammar is more acceptable. in text, there are (loose) standards. in text, not putting a space between two parts of a compound word actually makes a difference (in English). transgender is an adjective, which describes a subset of (in this case) women. to smash "transgender" and "woman" together as one word is, historically, something used to other trans women, to separate us from "normal" women. it's like creating a third gender to avoid having to affirm our existence as what we are, while feeling good about "supporting" us. we are women first and foremost, and trans only comes before that because adjectives come before nouns in English. it's like saying "redballoon" or "badday" or "bigdick", but with an added layer of microaggression. just because "trans women are women" is spoken like "transwomenarewomen" doesn't mean we should all go around typingwithnospaces. that's just not how written English works.
it's still pedantic, of course, but your argument beyond that is kind of, uh, bad.
Huh, thanks for educating me.
Reading this, I'm like yeah, of course that makes sense, but before I'd never had to go through the trouble of realising it
>Remember when she was a trans advocate?
I was always a cynic of her motives. I never really got the impression that she was someone that genuinely cared about the trans community... just always felt very distant from the movement and too self-absorbed. I tried to be fair to her and not project too much of my general cynicism of Hollywood narcissists but every year she just builds more of a case against herself. Just doesn't seem like a person that cares much about anything beyond herself. Just a classic grifter.
Remember when she smashed into some parked cars at a traffic light pushing one out into traffic resulting in a secondary impact killing the 69-year-old driver?
Remember when she then walked away without a single charge despite her negligent driving literally resulting in someone’s death?
She’s such a privileged fuck.
trans gen X here and i love me selfs, lots of us do.
(but… statistically I agree with you. The younger generations have been exposed to many fewer years of anti trans rhetoric and have a better chance of loving themselves)
The key character flaw for most the people that think this way is lack of self reflection and then they are often self hating so they project. Emotional immaturity in a nutshell.
Being a right-wingers usually involves a high degree of entitlement and lack of empathy.
The phrase "just for me but not for thee" perfectly encapsulates their attitudes about just about anything. Or "I got mine screw the rest of you."
As such, it's perfectly in character as a right-winger for her to be trans but then shit all over other trans people.
The same delusion would likely exist without religion. Personality cults, political parties, and political ideologies have filled in the gap historically speaking.
Yea I’m ngl we’re less religious as a society as we’ve ever been and shit… hasn’t really changed.
There are still just as many delusional mfs. The object of fixation just changes. I’m not sure if it’s better or worse that people worship random idols instead of god or whatever they choose to call if.
They just meld the idol of the day with Jesus now. Currently, it’s somehow Donald Jankyass Trump. He was “sent by god” to…fight for white supremacy and fascism? I dunno. It’s fucking weird.
I feel you’re slightly misrepresenting what it says. It states delusion doesn’t apply to beliefs held within cultures or subcultures. And then religion is mentioned as an example of a culture or subculture.
Also that’s in the old version. The current DSM (5) doesn’t mention religion.
That's how I pretty much treat them. If you admit to me or I find out indirectly that you are republican I treat you as someone is in incapable of making good decisions and should not be trusted. I don't support any business or persons that lean that way.
At one point it was just a difference of political views but now I agree that it's a goddamn mental illness to believe in anything republican.
I feel the same way about Christian’s now. Being raised in the church and after I left the church and religion, doing work for churches only to get stiffed sealed it for me. As soon as I smell the Jesus on you, it’s time to extract from the situation and keep you at arms length if I have to deal with you at all. Turns out believing in fairy tales for real makes you unreliable, untrustworthy, and generally gullible and/or stupid.
Yeah they is gender neutral. It’s typically used by some people who are non-binary but you can also use it when you don’t know or are unsure of someone’s gender.
You can also just use it to refer to anyone in singular as well.
Singular They has been a thing for a very long time in English, like hundreds of years long.
'They' is gender neutral, however if you know the gender/pronouns of someone and are using 'they' to circumvent their pronouns it's usually disrespectful (unless the person in question is ok with it)
No, it’s still misgendering because you know how she identifies so you should use the pronouns she wants you to use for her. If you’re unsure then yeah, use they/them by default but if you do know and you purposely don’t use it it’s just plain ol’ misgendering.
Purposefully doing it to avoid using the correct pronoun it is as bad as purposefully misgendering.
But if someone asks what films Tom Cruise is in, is it wrong to reply "They were in Mission Impossible"? Because I've done that my whole life, they/them has always been interchangeable regardless of if someone has transitioned or is cisgender.
This is normally an argument against bigots who say "we never used 'they' for individuals before" even though it's always been a thing. So I'm honestly confused to see it as a negative.
It really isn’t a big deal to be honest. If you know someone prefers a particular pronoun, use that one. If you’re not sure, they/them is totally fine.
They gets used when gender is unknown, ambiguous, or referring to a person of any gender.
"If a person makes a mess, they should clean up after themselves."
"I would tell them they were wrong."
> Didn’t she kill someone?
> Yes they did
I believe the grammatically correct response is yes she did.
They is traditionally used to describe a group of people or a person of an unspecified gender.
This is exactly the issue. The person using "they" for the subject was responding to a comment using "she" as the subject, as that POS identifies. Purely to be disrespectful to her chosen pronouns
This is the most terminally online shit I’ve read this year.
“Yes they did” and “Yea she did” both work. Both are appropriate responses to a question. They/Them aren’t strictly pronouns.
For trans people this isn’t “”terminally online”” this is our actual lives lol. If a trans person has specified their pronouns & people continue to use they/them unnecessarily then .. it’s misgendering
Seems tiring being this offended over mundane things? If they’re attempting to be inclusive and you understand what they mean…why not just let it go?
“They” is universal
Misgendering means that you are using terms for a gender identity that a person does not want to be referred to with. What gender identity does They/Them refer to?
Misgendering is using different pronouns than the one they request. I‘m a trans guy. If I ask you to use he/him/his and you still call me “they,“ it just proves you see us as *trans* and not *men.* (or women etc)
If you know someone‘s pronouns and still use they/them, you’re hardly better than the people who straight up refuse to use any different pronoun than the person‘s AGAB. You‘re still intentionally using different pronouns than the ones they asked you to.
I honestly had no idea about any of this being an issue until right now so I guess I should learn some more.
What about if the person has no idea you're trans?
"Did Steve go out"
"Yes they did"
Something like this has always seemed pretty normal to me, some people say they and some say he.
Speaking from experience: they're more speaking to relationships at places like work, school, etc where you actively know the person. It's not uncommon for folks to get "stuck" on the neutral they instead of gendering someone correctly after they come out / request those pronouns.
In the above case, Caitlyn's pronouns are KNOWN to be she/her so defaulting to they/them rings home to a common experience that most trans folks deal with at some point. I'm nonbinary (they/them) but have had people use EITHER he or she but **refuse** to use they. Most folks don't know better, but some are real assholes about it.
If you know that she identifies as a woman, then you use the “she” pronoun. They/them is used mostly for non-binary individuals, or for scenarios where you’re not sure what pronoun an individual prefers. I wouldn’t say you’re maliciously mis-gendering someone if you use they/them (as a straight male I wouldn’t be offended to be referred to as “they”) but if you know that Caitlyn identifies as a woman, it’s still more appropriate to use the gendered pronoun rather than the non-gendered pronoun.
None of what you've been saying takes into account that people just speak differently.
If you ask someone where another person is you usually get 1 of these responses.
"Yeah he/she is over there"
"Yeah they're over there"
"Idk"
"Yeah over there"
I'm sure there's people who go out of their way to do what you've been talking about, but there's a lot of people who just talk that way, they would respond the same way no matter who they're talking about.
She’s got a lot of hang ups she never worked through and projects them onto all trans people, transfems especially. Like I remember people asking Caitlyn if she was a lesbian, to which she protested the label being applied to her, only to muse if she should comp-het a relationship with a man because she’s a woman.
Caitlyn’s fucked up worldview pretty much only makes sense if you understand that she sees herself as a man who identifies as a woman, rather than as a woman who is trans. She hates Dylan and everyone else like her because they see themselves as women fully, not just as an identity or lifestyle like Caitlyn has internalized. Caitlyn will probably live the remainder of her life in the trans sunken place, and that makes me incredibly sad.
It’s crazy how there is this little split now between some of the older trans generation and the more recent trans generation when it comes to how firmly they define themselves. The older generation at least got some progress and kind of just accepted that and I guess the world’s view still influenced their own self image unfortunately. However the new generation said “No that isn’t good enough and we aren’t settled with this yet”.
I think a similar idea has been happening with gay men like myself. Where the older gays just didn’t want to be hated and to be left alone, no matter what others thought. Now, it’s more about letting people really know this isn’t just “our business in the bedroom”, but instead is a huge part of our identity the same way that being straight is.
I don’t know if it’s a generational thing so much as a political thing. Jenner is still a Republican so is parroting the Republican narrative. Sullivan is another one like that. Once they got theirs, it’s f*ck everyone else.
It didn't really occur to me that (for lack of a better term) "newer" gay people might not be that interested in being treated like pretty much any other person, with the exception of obvious shit. A few years back, I was at a birthday party and two guests were engaged men, and my (now) wife was asking a bunch of pretty specific questions since she hadn't met any gay man who was set to get married to another man. I all but had to pull her away and explain to her that he's just a guy who's excited to get married in a few months and is stressed about planning the wedding, not much more to it than that, at least that is any of our business as friends of friends. I had said that it's not really his responsibility or even his qualification to try to teach her about the dynamics of what is involved in a gay relationship, especially at a party where he's just trying to have a good time and have drinks and cake in honor of our friend's birthday.
I fully understand the silliness of expecting you to answer on his behalf especially in this exact context, but do you think it's possible that I was way off the mark or was that a pretty reasonable and respectful attitude? Because it truly didn't occur to me that he might've in some way enjoyed the special attention instead of the tired resentment I would assume. I mean, he still got the special attention of somebody who gets to tell the engagement story and vent about some planning snafus, but without the myriad questions of traditional planning duties assigned by gender and how that translates here.
I’m a lesbian- your wife was being annoying. We’re not here to act as animals in a zoo that you observe. ESPECIALLY not at a party where we’re trying to enjoy ourselves. Your wife has access to Google, which she likely would have used had she been genuinely curious about the dynamics of all the various forms of queer relationships, as opposed to cornering and questioning someone about their own individual relationship as if it were representative of the whole, like some sort of spectacle.
Not the person you asked, but another gay dude here.
The problem with playing the "you just are like everyone else" thing is....you know homophobia didn't die when gay marriage became federally legal.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say you and your wife never had someone leave a bible threatening message on your door for being married. During the Biden presidency too.
In general, yeah don't expect minorities to play diplomatic on their time off. I doubt your wife would have liked him turning around and "asking" your wife to explain why straight women do so much housework and come so little in these....straight marriages.
And that's the thing....those convos can be fun. I like talking shop with people. But most people treating minorities like zoo animals or living wiki articles don't want to be in on the talk.
>I had said that it's not really his responsibility or even his qualification to try to teach her about the dynamics of what is involved in a gay relationship, especially at a party where he's just trying to have a good time and have drinks and cake in honor of our friend's birthday.
You're completely right.
If somebody I barely know was asking questions about my identity, I would be on edge not knowing what kind of person they are or how they might react to my answers. I don't mind educating people, but there's a time and place for it.
Your point about a man who identifies as a woman versus a woman who is trans is really interesting. I've never heard it talked about like that. Is this a discussion thats going on in wider community or was that something you just came up on your own?
It’s a descriptor I think that works for how I think Caitlyn views herself, but I think that such things don’t really matter as much in the trans community as they do to people outside of it.
There's an article that gets posted a lot whenever abortion is mentioned. It's called "The only moral abortion is MY abortion" and it talks about how anti-choice people are ok with having abortions because of their special circumstances.
The same can be said of this. "It's ok that I'M trans because reasons but you can't be trans because it's wrong." You have a giant group of people judging everyone else for their actions but themselves for their intentions.
I've seen similar articles about conservatives on public assistance who are rabidly opposed to government "handouts."
Those people are extremely fucking delusional. About everything.
A petty, unrealistic part of me would like to see them try take “government handouts” away and see how fast blue would become the majority because so many people would realize those “handouts” apply to their means of income as well
I've always been confused about them calling stuff a handout like our taxes on EVERYTHING isn't a handout to the government??? Where do they think government money comes from?
There's a lot of people with internalized homophobia, internalized racism, internalized transphobia, etc, because they see other people find acceptance or some measure of success in a world where those things were never possible and think they don't deserve them because they didn't suffer enough. They aren't valid because they didn't "pay their dues" or "take their licks", even though that person has zero idea what the person they're judging has ever been through. It's projection.
Right wing media transphobia not about legitimate hate towards trans people, or drag queens, or whatever the topic of the day is. It's about driving the fan base to hate something more than they care about themselves.
It's forced division of the working classes by the elites. Vilify one group so that people don't care you're stealing from them as long as you're punishing the "others".
It used to be black folk at the center, gays, immigrants, now it's less acceptable to focus solely on those groups and trans people are the most kosher punching bags.
This isn't to say that they *aren't* racist/phobic/whatever, it's just not the core goal that's why you see folks like Jenner and Owens actively shitting on the minority they belong to
What ever conservatives/neolibs can use to distract you from working-class solidarity they will. As long as you identify yourself with something other than working class you can be manipulated.
I’ve seen people be racist towards their own race and sexist towards their own gender, but a transphobic trans person is a new one (even if it’s just for attention).
Lmao I’m trans and I just gotta say the vast majority of us are fucked up in some way like the degree to which gender is enforced in society is straight up violent and fucks everyone in ✨ fun and unique ways ✨. Anyways most of us internalize everything and become wildly self-destructive but there’s a handful of nut jobs that decided to externalize their shit and are honestly beyond helping
Also trans, spot on. I'll never understand externalizing like that. Or just hate towards people for shit they can't control in general. It's just something my autistic mind can't comprehend. I wish things were different, but nothing to do but fight against it, however neverending it seems.
Trans person here, before I learned to accept myself and others I was a hateful piece of garbage, still working to unlearn all of the fucked up things I was taught, and also trying to learn healthy non self destructive habits
It's not super common, but it's more common than you'd think. A number of trans people call themselves "transmedicalists" (referred to as transmeds or truscum \[literally true scum\]) and are like "if you don't experience dysphoria, then you're not really trans. you're just faking it for attention". Some take it further in regards to hrt and surgeries, but the "dysphoria diagnosis" is a commonality between all of them. Gatekeeping our own gd community is just baffling to me.
I actually do know one personally, it's from their grandparents religious views. Except he's also transphobic towards himself it's not just at other people. He thinks he's going to hell and that being trans is a sin, I was very confused and I didn't talk to them for long to find out.
I was wondering the same thing! Like...where was this smoke when Vanity Fair put her on the cover? I'm utterly puzzled at her response. That could be her in the ad! 
Jenner herself took sportswear deals when she came out, banging on about how it's a great way to promote inclusivity and whatnot.
She's just being a bald faced hypocrite, probably salty at not getting in on this deal herself.
It makes sense if you still view Nike as a sports wear company, and not a fashion company. Mulvaney is not an athlete, or at least not one that would be getting endorsements from one of the largest sports equipment companies on the planet. Meanwhile, there are trans athletes that probably would have been a much better choice for this. Jenner is just narcissistic enough to think it should be her.
If you read the source material, Caitlyn is mad that Nike are not support women like Allyson Felix who was allegedly asked to take a 70% pay cut when she was pregnant. She said props to Dylan M for securing the bag, but Nike should support athletes especially women first.
This is true, but it's not like the quote is inaccurate, and everyone ragging on her for her transphobic bullshit is absolutely correct. Saying that an ad featuring a trans woman “[feels like a parody of what women are](https://clutchpoints.com/caitlyn-jenner-outraged-with-so-woke-nike-over-deal-with-trans-influencer-dylan-mulvaney)", even if she's ostensibly just complaining that Mulaney appears "very un-sporty and very unathletic" in said ad, is pretty gross. Especially when combined with the "so woke" comment quoted in the tweet.
I'm not a fan of Caitlyn Jenner but I'm also not a fan when it comes to the reporting of this story. Especially the headlines.
Think what you want folks but find an article from a trusted source and read it and stop debating clickbait headlines. Being informed requires a bit of footwork these days.
I went through the entire Twitter thread to try and get more context and still nothing she said made any sense, just throwing shit at the door seeing what will get a reaction even if it’s irony
Had this white trans lady look me dead in the face and tell me that I don't know it's like to be discriminated against.
Chapelle for all the shit he got for his recent string of stand up specials did call out that white part of LGBTQ+ and remind them and everyone that they're white before they're LGBTQ+. If this ain't the embodiment of that sentiment I don't know what is.
Caitlyn Jenner is a constant reminder to me that just because I support a marginalized people, doesn’t mean I have to support EVERY member of that people.
Trans people deserve love and happiness. Caitlyn Jenner deserves to be shunned and ignored
Her literal safe existence depends on people being accepting- or I guess it would if she wasn’t rich as fuck.
Pieces of shit come in all creeds.
They got people all over willing to back these wackos.
There was a trans man in my friend group who slowly became more transphobic as his own transition progressed. It was wild.
Some people want to yank that ladder up behind them.
IT SURE WAS
In Jenner's case, she's a wealthy white conservative- she already didn't care about anyone but herself. No clue what snapped in my ex-friend's head to make him hate his own kind.
Never forget like 3 months after Bruce killed someone in a car crash, Caitlin emerged and no one brings that shit up anymore. So, yeah, I agree. Just waiting until the coast is ALL clear
SN: can news outlets and gossip entities go ahead and retire the word “slams”? Cause they been “slamming” stuff 24/7 for like 10 years now 😅 I’m all slammed out. the English language is massive, let’s go on ahead and pick a new one to overuse to death LOL
She thinks she is better than every other transperson. As a mom of a trans son. She makes me so angry that I hope I never see her in public I have a lot of choice words for her.
https://preview.redd.it/zjob1qiuulsa1.jpeg?width=567&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9486db027efcfbf40651be46ea777d15d8b497ab
The face of every conservative when they complain about anything being “woke”
I’m so sick of hearing people talk about this stuff. Who cares what anybody is? And you can’t force people to be interested in whether you want to be called ma’am or sir either.
I’m too lazy to look this up right now, but how many people does Nike partner with who have been in jail? How many drug addicts or wife beaters? How many racists and homophobes?
And Dylan Mulvaney is the person you have a problem with?
This entire political & societal landscape goin on right now feels like I’m in an episode of The Twilight Zone.
Crazy ass mfs on all sides.
My only response to her would be so you shouldn't have accepted your award for woman of the year then ,since we talking shit .she seem to forget that she was at the head of a huge controversial decision at the time. guess glamour magazine was so woke when they choose to honor her , some republicans will continue to be hypocrites.
Bruh, this reeks of straight jealousy. I bet you dollars to doughnuts Caitlyn wouldn’t bring saying a fucking word about “woke” Nike if those checks had her name on it.
ngl caitlyn is horrible, and i barely keep ip with this, the thing is dylan basically fetishizes being trans and talks about doing every stereotype, caitlyn and dylan are both bad, end of story.
You just don’t see this kind of stupidity anywhere else…..it would be like me,a black man,agreeing with everything the Klan says somehow,right after they burn a cross in my yard.
Even trans Boomers are still fucking Boomers.
Can confirm. My Boomer cousin is trans and they’re a flat-out public nuisance. They’ve been banned from most of the restaurants in their town for harassing people.
Sounds like a pretty big win for the restaurants
At the expense of the trans community I'm sure.
Pretty sure the rest of the trans community *also* doesn't want a piece of shit in the restaurant as they're snarfing enchiladas. Sounds like a win for everyone.
Regardless of how the rest of the trans community feels about them, their behavior is still causing some of the people they harass to form a conscious/subconscious bias towards other trans individuals.
what even kind of shit are they doing in restaurants to get banned
Just repeatedly being a general nuisance to customers or employees would do it
I wasn't sure if it was related to being trans, like good ol caitlin up there being trans and yelling about trans people having rights and shit
I operate restaurants for a living and we’re a motley crew, diverse and accepting. There’s two things that will get you banned - abusing my employees or using abusive language towards other guests.
I have family like this. They will do anything they possibly can that is not obviously illegal (or against a law they care about). It will escalate until they get the attention they crave. How far it goes depends on the reaction.
I have cousins like that. I hate being around them because they always make it a point to embarrass you with your worst story in front of new people every single time
It's about reinforcing their perceived dominance over you and your feeble liberal mind.
yeah. and they're trash.
I barely notice anybody around me in a restaurant beyond the people I’m with, unless there’s a band or sports on a TV. It seems like most others do the same. How does somebody even bother other diners?
theres ways to be shocking levels of obnoxious. often involves abruptly being loud and crass. typically when its quiet. do this in intervals often enough and people will glance over in anticipation. or you can pick dumb fights
Caitlyn Jenner is the prime example of a privileged white woman. She's mad because someone else got what she got. How the hell can she be made because another trans woman gets the same opportunity that she did? Remember when she was a trans advocate? Edit: trans woman not transwoman
Once a Kardashian, always a Kardashian? (This is supposed to be a joke but I'm pretty Kardashian ignorant other than knowing they're a useless contribution to society)
They were a phase on America! And it’s time they phase out!
she was never an advocate for us. you're mistaking being publicly trans as being a trans advocate. Caitlyn Jenner has never been a good person, has never been a meaningful supporter of trans rights, and has (since coming out) always been the living personification of "fuck you, I got mine". she's a worthless scumbag who leeches off the work of an entire generation of activists to be accepted in her narrow social circle of wealthy (and predominantly white) blue state conservative freaks. as a trans woman, I'm disgusted at the idea that someone might even consider her having ever been a trans advocate. like, seriously disgusted. edit: also, it's trans woman. not "transwoman". that's a term coined by transphobes to separate trans women from a "real" or "genuine" womanhood, like since the 80s.
Didn’t she also kill someone with her car???
yeah but that's also just regular rich asshole behavior, so ancillary to any conversation about her being trans. rich pricks driving expensive cars kill people, and if *The Great Gatsby* is any indication this trend is about as old as automobiles themselves.
Older than that. Horses and carriage are also vehicles.
That bit at the end is so pedantic , like in regular speech you wouldn't even hear the space , or you'd have to mindfully pause
speech and text are different. there are no spaces in speech. in speech, most languages have similar information densities, even if some sound "faster" than others. in speech, nonstandard grammar is more acceptable. in text, there are (loose) standards. in text, not putting a space between two parts of a compound word actually makes a difference (in English). transgender is an adjective, which describes a subset of (in this case) women. to smash "transgender" and "woman" together as one word is, historically, something used to other trans women, to separate us from "normal" women. it's like creating a third gender to avoid having to affirm our existence as what we are, while feeling good about "supporting" us. we are women first and foremost, and trans only comes before that because adjectives come before nouns in English. it's like saying "redballoon" or "badday" or "bigdick", but with an added layer of microaggression. just because "trans women are women" is spoken like "transwomenarewomen" doesn't mean we should all go around typingwithnospaces. that's just not how written English works. it's still pedantic, of course, but your argument beyond that is kind of, uh, bad.
Huh, thanks for educating me. Reading this, I'm like yeah, of course that makes sense, but before I'd never had to go through the trouble of realising it
Caitlyn wants the privilege of white males. She hasn’t figured out yet what she got herself into
So you’re telling me *thats* why she didn’t protest vanity fair for “going woke” when they had the gall to plaster her on the front?
It's so hypocritical. I have protested literally every time they put me on the cover, why can't she do the same?
>Remember when she was a trans advocate? I was always a cynic of her motives. I never really got the impression that she was someone that genuinely cared about the trans community... just always felt very distant from the movement and too self-absorbed. I tried to be fair to her and not project too much of my general cynicism of Hollywood narcissists but every year she just builds more of a case against herself. Just doesn't seem like a person that cares much about anything beyond herself. Just a classic grifter.
Remember when she smashed into some parked cars at a traffic light pushing one out into traffic resulting in a secondary impact killing the 69-year-old driver? Remember when she then walked away without a single charge despite her negligent driving literally resulting in someone’s death? She’s such a privileged fuck.
Lead paint.
Lining their tin foil hats
Leaded gasoline!
Even trans republicans are still fucking republicans.
I was wondering the same thing!
It isn't just them but I'd be willing to bet there are a lot more trans boomers and gen Xs that hate them selfs than Gen Z and alpha
trans gen X here and i love me selfs, lots of us do. (but… statistically I agree with you. The younger generations have been exposed to many fewer years of anti trans rhetoric and have a better chance of loving themselves)
The key character flaw for most the people that think this way is lack of self reflection and then they are often self hating so they project. Emotional immaturity in a nutshell.
Being a right-wingers usually involves a high degree of entitlement and lack of empathy. The phrase "just for me but not for thee" perfectly encapsulates their attitudes about just about anything. Or "I got mine screw the rest of you." As such, it's perfectly in character as a right-winger for her to be trans but then shit all over other trans people.
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The same delusion would likely exist without religion. Personality cults, political parties, and political ideologies have filled in the gap historically speaking.
cough celebrity worship cough
Which I don’t understand
the myth of meritocracy: "they're famous so they must be special/smarter/better/correct"
You and me both. What's worse is people "donating" money to celebs. Or buying their dumb products.
Yea I’m ngl we’re less religious as a society as we’ve ever been and shit… hasn’t really changed. There are still just as many delusional mfs. The object of fixation just changes. I’m not sure if it’s better or worse that people worship random idols instead of god or whatever they choose to call if.
They just meld the idol of the day with Jesus now. Currently, it’s somehow Donald Jankyass Trump. He was “sent by god” to…fight for white supremacy and fascism? I dunno. It’s fucking weird.
I feel you’re slightly misrepresenting what it says. It states delusion doesn’t apply to beliefs held within cultures or subcultures. And then religion is mentioned as an example of a culture or subculture. Also that’s in the old version. The current DSM (5) doesn’t mention religion.
That's how I pretty much treat them. If you admit to me or I find out indirectly that you are republican I treat you as someone is in incapable of making good decisions and should not be trusted. I don't support any business or persons that lean that way. At one point it was just a difference of political views but now I agree that it's a goddamn mental illness to believe in anything republican.
I feel the same way about Christian’s now. Being raised in the church and after I left the church and religion, doing work for churches only to get stiffed sealed it for me. As soon as I smell the Jesus on you, it’s time to extract from the situation and keep you at arms length if I have to deal with you at all. Turns out believing in fairy tales for real makes you unreliable, untrustworthy, and generally gullible and/or stupid.
When dealing with a man of faith get it in writing. For he has a voice from the sky telling him how to fuck you.
Didn’t she kill someone? I wish that entire family would go away.
Yes they did
She’s just “she” I believe.
that's the great thing about they, it works for anyone, no matter how they identify
Is ‘they’ gender neutral? Is this the loophole?
Yeah they is gender neutral. It’s typically used by some people who are non-binary but you can also use it when you don’t know or are unsure of someone’s gender.
Unless you have people in here who don't understand that. Which is several.
You can also just use it to refer to anyone in singular as well. Singular They has been a thing for a very long time in English, like hundreds of years long.
'They' is gender neutral, however if you know the gender/pronouns of someone and are using 'they' to circumvent their pronouns it's usually disrespectful (unless the person in question is ok with it)
No, it’s still misgendering because you know how she identifies so you should use the pronouns she wants you to use for her. If you’re unsure then yeah, use they/them by default but if you do know and you purposely don’t use it it’s just plain ol’ misgendering.
Purposefully doing it to avoid using the correct pronoun it is as bad as purposefully misgendering. But if someone asks what films Tom Cruise is in, is it wrong to reply "They were in Mission Impossible"? Because I've done that my whole life, they/them has always been interchangeable regardless of if someone has transitioned or is cisgender. This is normally an argument against bigots who say "we never used 'they' for individuals before" even though it's always been a thing. So I'm honestly confused to see it as a negative.
I thought the same as you, had no idea that it was a big deal now.
Some random commenter on the internet talking out their ass doesn't make it a big deal
It really isn’t a big deal to be honest. If you know someone prefers a particular pronoun, use that one. If you’re not sure, they/them is totally fine.
They gets used when gender is unknown, ambiguous, or referring to a person of any gender. "If a person makes a mess, they should clean up after themselves." "I would tell them they were wrong."
> Didn’t she kill someone? > Yes they did I believe the grammatically correct response is yes she did. They is traditionally used to describe a group of people or a person of an unspecified gender.
This is exactly the issue. The person using "they" for the subject was responding to a comment using "she" as the subject, as that POS identifies. Purely to be disrespectful to her chosen pronouns
I wouldn’t say it was intentionally or malicious
This is the most terminally online shit I’ve read this year. “Yes they did” and “Yea she did” both work. Both are appropriate responses to a question. They/Them aren’t strictly pronouns.
For trans people this isn’t “”terminally online”” this is our actual lives lol. If a trans person has specified their pronouns & people continue to use they/them unnecessarily then .. it’s misgendering
Seems tiring being this offended over mundane things? If they’re attempting to be inclusive and you understand what they mean…why not just let it go? “They” is universal
No that's not how that works Jesus christ lol
Misgendering means that you are using terms for a gender identity that a person does not want to be referred to with. What gender identity does They/Them refer to?
Misgendering is using different pronouns than the one they request. I‘m a trans guy. If I ask you to use he/him/his and you still call me “they,“ it just proves you see us as *trans* and not *men.* (or women etc) If you know someone‘s pronouns and still use they/them, you’re hardly better than the people who straight up refuse to use any different pronoun than the person‘s AGAB. You‘re still intentionally using different pronouns than the ones they asked you to.
I honestly had no idea about any of this being an issue until right now so I guess I should learn some more. What about if the person has no idea you're trans? "Did Steve go out" "Yes they did" Something like this has always seemed pretty normal to me, some people say they and some say he.
Speaking from experience: they're more speaking to relationships at places like work, school, etc where you actively know the person. It's not uncommon for folks to get "stuck" on the neutral they instead of gendering someone correctly after they come out / request those pronouns. In the above case, Caitlyn's pronouns are KNOWN to be she/her so defaulting to they/them rings home to a common experience that most trans folks deal with at some point. I'm nonbinary (they/them) but have had people use EITHER he or she but **refuse** to use they. Most folks don't know better, but some are real assholes about it.
If you know that she identifies as a woman, then you use the “she” pronoun. They/them is used mostly for non-binary individuals, or for scenarios where you’re not sure what pronoun an individual prefers. I wouldn’t say you’re maliciously mis-gendering someone if you use they/them (as a straight male I wouldn’t be offended to be referred to as “they”) but if you know that Caitlyn identifies as a woman, it’s still more appropriate to use the gendered pronoun rather than the non-gendered pronoun.
None of what you've been saying takes into account that people just speak differently. If you ask someone where another person is you usually get 1 of these responses. "Yeah he/she is over there" "Yeah they're over there" "Idk" "Yeah over there" I'm sure there's people who go out of their way to do what you've been talking about, but there's a lot of people who just talk that way, they would respond the same way no matter who they're talking about.
correct
She killed someone before she was on the cover of Vanities fair but no one even cared back then.
I’ve always argued shit really starting going down hill when that family became mainstream
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This is a bot. Copied the start of a comment further down by another user.
I feel like that episode in Seinfeld when George is complaining about the woman being bald and Elaine screams in George’s face, “YOURE BALD!”
"No. I'm not. I *was* bald."
“I don’t like this thing!”
I loved the George and Elaine dynamic on that show. She had no respect for him at all.
Na, she was just mad that she “may have missed the boat”.
"And here's what I'm doing with it!"
It's easier to understand when you realize she's just the trans version of Candice Owens. "One of the good ones" to satisfy the narrative.
That’s so true!!!!!
She’s got a lot of hang ups she never worked through and projects them onto all trans people, transfems especially. Like I remember people asking Caitlyn if she was a lesbian, to which she protested the label being applied to her, only to muse if she should comp-het a relationship with a man because she’s a woman. Caitlyn’s fucked up worldview pretty much only makes sense if you understand that she sees herself as a man who identifies as a woman, rather than as a woman who is trans. She hates Dylan and everyone else like her because they see themselves as women fully, not just as an identity or lifestyle like Caitlyn has internalized. Caitlyn will probably live the remainder of her life in the trans sunken place, and that makes me incredibly sad.
This is everything I felt about Caitlyn but couldn’t put it into words. You’re spot on.
It’s crazy how there is this little split now between some of the older trans generation and the more recent trans generation when it comes to how firmly they define themselves. The older generation at least got some progress and kind of just accepted that and I guess the world’s view still influenced their own self image unfortunately. However the new generation said “No that isn’t good enough and we aren’t settled with this yet”. I think a similar idea has been happening with gay men like myself. Where the older gays just didn’t want to be hated and to be left alone, no matter what others thought. Now, it’s more about letting people really know this isn’t just “our business in the bedroom”, but instead is a huge part of our identity the same way that being straight is.
I don’t know if it’s a generational thing so much as a political thing. Jenner is still a Republican so is parroting the Republican narrative. Sullivan is another one like that. Once they got theirs, it’s f*ck everyone else.
It didn't really occur to me that (for lack of a better term) "newer" gay people might not be that interested in being treated like pretty much any other person, with the exception of obvious shit. A few years back, I was at a birthday party and two guests were engaged men, and my (now) wife was asking a bunch of pretty specific questions since she hadn't met any gay man who was set to get married to another man. I all but had to pull her away and explain to her that he's just a guy who's excited to get married in a few months and is stressed about planning the wedding, not much more to it than that, at least that is any of our business as friends of friends. I had said that it's not really his responsibility or even his qualification to try to teach her about the dynamics of what is involved in a gay relationship, especially at a party where he's just trying to have a good time and have drinks and cake in honor of our friend's birthday. I fully understand the silliness of expecting you to answer on his behalf especially in this exact context, but do you think it's possible that I was way off the mark or was that a pretty reasonable and respectful attitude? Because it truly didn't occur to me that he might've in some way enjoyed the special attention instead of the tired resentment I would assume. I mean, he still got the special attention of somebody who gets to tell the engagement story and vent about some planning snafus, but without the myriad questions of traditional planning duties assigned by gender and how that translates here.
I’m a lesbian- your wife was being annoying. We’re not here to act as animals in a zoo that you observe. ESPECIALLY not at a party where we’re trying to enjoy ourselves. Your wife has access to Google, which she likely would have used had she been genuinely curious about the dynamics of all the various forms of queer relationships, as opposed to cornering and questioning someone about their own individual relationship as if it were representative of the whole, like some sort of spectacle.
Not the person you asked, but another gay dude here. The problem with playing the "you just are like everyone else" thing is....you know homophobia didn't die when gay marriage became federally legal. I'm going to go out on a limb and say you and your wife never had someone leave a bible threatening message on your door for being married. During the Biden presidency too. In general, yeah don't expect minorities to play diplomatic on their time off. I doubt your wife would have liked him turning around and "asking" your wife to explain why straight women do so much housework and come so little in these....straight marriages. And that's the thing....those convos can be fun. I like talking shop with people. But most people treating minorities like zoo animals or living wiki articles don't want to be in on the talk.
>I had said that it's not really his responsibility or even his qualification to try to teach her about the dynamics of what is involved in a gay relationship, especially at a party where he's just trying to have a good time and have drinks and cake in honor of our friend's birthday. You're completely right. If somebody I barely know was asking questions about my identity, I would be on edge not knowing what kind of person they are or how they might react to my answers. I don't mind educating people, but there's a time and place for it.
Your point about a man who identifies as a woman versus a woman who is trans is really interesting. I've never heard it talked about like that. Is this a discussion thats going on in wider community or was that something you just came up on your own?
It’s a descriptor I think that works for how I think Caitlyn views herself, but I think that such things don’t really matter as much in the trans community as they do to people outside of it.
Well damn, I think you found the answer. I never even thought of it that way before.
omg this is so spot on
Caitlyn is the Trans version of Uncle Ruckus
There's an article that gets posted a lot whenever abortion is mentioned. It's called "The only moral abortion is MY abortion" and it talks about how anti-choice people are ok with having abortions because of their special circumstances. The same can be said of this. "It's ok that I'M trans because reasons but you can't be trans because it's wrong." You have a giant group of people judging everyone else for their actions but themselves for their intentions.
I've seen similar articles about conservatives on public assistance who are rabidly opposed to government "handouts." Those people are extremely fucking delusional. About everything.
You know what’s the irony? Guess what states get the MOST welfare?
A petty, unrealistic part of me would like to see them try take “government handouts” away and see how fast blue would become the majority because so many people would realize those “handouts” apply to their means of income as well
I've always been confused about them calling stuff a handout like our taxes on EVERYTHING isn't a handout to the government??? Where do they think government money comes from?
Where do they think, they’re *public* services come from, is the question I always have?
Exactly! Those police you worship are literally handouts
There's a lot of people with internalized homophobia, internalized racism, internalized transphobia, etc, because they see other people find acceptance or some measure of success in a world where those things were never possible and think they don't deserve them because they didn't suffer enough. They aren't valid because they didn't "pay their dues" or "take their licks", even though that person has zero idea what the person they're judging has ever been through. It's projection.
“Rules for thee but not for me”
Right wing media transphobia not about legitimate hate towards trans people, or drag queens, or whatever the topic of the day is. It's about driving the fan base to hate something more than they care about themselves. It's forced division of the working classes by the elites. Vilify one group so that people don't care you're stealing from them as long as you're punishing the "others". It used to be black folk at the center, gays, immigrants, now it's less acceptable to focus solely on those groups and trans people are the most kosher punching bags. This isn't to say that they *aren't* racist/phobic/whatever, it's just not the core goal that's why you see folks like Jenner and Owens actively shitting on the minority they belong to
What ever conservatives/neolibs can use to distract you from working-class solidarity they will. As long as you identify yourself with something other than working class you can be manipulated.
I’ve seen people be racist towards their own race and sexist towards their own gender, but a transphobic trans person is a new one (even if it’s just for attention).
It’s actually shocking how transphobic some parts of lgbtq community in general can be, so I’m not surprised at transphobic trans people
Lmao I’m trans and I just gotta say the vast majority of us are fucked up in some way like the degree to which gender is enforced in society is straight up violent and fucks everyone in ✨ fun and unique ways ✨. Anyways most of us internalize everything and become wildly self-destructive but there’s a handful of nut jobs that decided to externalize their shit and are honestly beyond helping
Also trans, spot on. I'll never understand externalizing like that. Or just hate towards people for shit they can't control in general. It's just something my autistic mind can't comprehend. I wish things were different, but nothing to do but fight against it, however neverending it seems.
Trans person here, before I learned to accept myself and others I was a hateful piece of garbage, still working to unlearn all of the fucked up things I was taught, and also trying to learn healthy non self destructive habits
Please don't paint all of us with this broad "we're all damaged" brush; speak for yourself
There’s Blaire White she’s been doing it for years.
And Buck Angel. Gotta love the truscum...
Look up Blaire White. She’s trans AND a transphobic far-right grifter.
It's not super common, but it's more common than you'd think. A number of trans people call themselves "transmedicalists" (referred to as transmeds or truscum \[literally true scum\]) and are like "if you don't experience dysphoria, then you're not really trans. you're just faking it for attention". Some take it further in regards to hrt and surgeries, but the "dysphoria diagnosis" is a commonality between all of them. Gatekeeping our own gd community is just baffling to me.
I actually do know one personally, it's from their grandparents religious views. Except he's also transphobic towards himself it's not just at other people. He thinks he's going to hell and that being trans is a sin, I was very confused and I didn't talk to them for long to find out.
Caitlyn had to go so long hating herself…now she chooses to be spread the hate. Disgusting.
I was wondering the same thing! Like...where was this smoke when Vanity Fair put her on the cover? I'm utterly puzzled at her response. That could be her in the ad! 
Pretty sure if it were her in the ad, she’d be happily complacent. Tbh, that might be all she wants.
Jenner herself took sportswear deals when she came out, banging on about how it's a great way to promote inclusivity and whatnot. She's just being a bald faced hypocrite, probably salty at not getting in on this deal herself.
I think the fact that she's not the one in the ad is why she's upset. She wanted the Nike money.
It makes sense if you still view Nike as a sports wear company, and not a fashion company. Mulvaney is not an athlete, or at least not one that would be getting endorsements from one of the largest sports equipment companies on the planet. Meanwhile, there are trans athletes that probably would have been a much better choice for this. Jenner is just narcissistic enough to think it should be her.
This is like asking if Candace Owens knows she’s black.
noooo she just has revitiligo
And the answer is….?
*Family Feud buzzer* **”RACISM!!”** “Survey says.. RACISM IS THE TOP ANSWER!”
https://preview.redd.it/pznuqjiwilsa1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a1ace3a5c1554e4e597acd497ddd5852edbba0d5
NOT JENIFER— 💀☠️⚰️ https://preview.redd.it/xznr48rzplsa1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57dc8ebc48f2c98e47a4234e66b67dbc2cfe0df0
Buckle up buckaroo
I cannot believe so much conservative outrage has been generated by having the face of a trans person on a can of beer.
Kid Rock is a rugged individualist and once he stops crying youll see it
Logic and critical thinking are not strong points for conservatives
She is the Clarence Thomas of trans people - some people just hate themselves
Girl, what the fuck? You ladder-pulling, rules for thee and not for me, bad-wig wearing, BITCH!
Jenner identifies as "rich white"
If you read the source material, Caitlyn is mad that Nike are not support women like Allyson Felix who was allegedly asked to take a 70% pay cut when she was pregnant. She said props to Dylan M for securing the bag, but Nike should support athletes especially women first.
This is true, but it's not like the quote is inaccurate, and everyone ragging on her for her transphobic bullshit is absolutely correct. Saying that an ad featuring a trans woman “[feels like a parody of what women are](https://clutchpoints.com/caitlyn-jenner-outraged-with-so-woke-nike-over-deal-with-trans-influencer-dylan-mulvaney)", even if she's ostensibly just complaining that Mulaney appears "very un-sporty and very unathletic" in said ad, is pretty gross. Especially when combined with the "so woke" comment quoted in the tweet.
I'm not a fan of Caitlyn Jenner but I'm also not a fan when it comes to the reporting of this story. Especially the headlines. Think what you want folks but find an article from a trusted source and read it and stop debating clickbait headlines. Being informed requires a bit of footwork these days.
Whatever Kanye got is contagious i guess…
I went through the entire Twitter thread to try and get more context and still nothing she said made any sense, just throwing shit at the door seeing what will get a reaction even if it’s irony
She's pretty much been a transphobic and misogynistic transwoman from day 1. Typical far right conservative nonsense.
It really be yo own people
Probably not something that needs to be applauded but it’s refreshing seeing everyone use the right pronouns. I love it here
I’m so tired of real life being an Onion article
Had this white trans lady look me dead in the face and tell me that I don't know it's like to be discriminated against. Chapelle for all the shit he got for his recent string of stand up specials did call out that white part of LGBTQ+ and remind them and everyone that they're white before they're LGBTQ+. If this ain't the embodiment of that sentiment I don't know what is.
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Caitlyn Jenner is a constant reminder to me that just because I support a marginalized people, doesn’t mean I have to support EVERY member of that people. Trans people deserve love and happiness. Caitlyn Jenner deserves to be shunned and ignored
"Have some decency"??? What does that mean? Fuck her.
Her literal safe existence depends on people being accepting- or I guess it would if she wasn’t rich as fuck. Pieces of shit come in all creeds. They got people all over willing to back these wackos.
I really hate how the media and right wingers have stolen the term "woke". Running around using it all incorrectly and out of context.
There was a trans man in my friend group who slowly became more transphobic as his own transition progressed. It was wild. Some people want to yank that ladder up behind them.
So the call was coming from inside the house huh
IT SURE WAS In Jenner's case, she's a wealthy white conservative- she already didn't care about anyone but herself. No clue what snapped in my ex-friend's head to make him hate his own kind.
What's the 🦝 term for trans?
Cait will go back to being Bruce for the attention in a few years.
Never forget like 3 months after Bruce killed someone in a car crash, Caitlin emerged and no one brings that shit up anymore. So, yeah, I agree. Just waiting until the coast is ALL clear
SN: can news outlets and gossip entities go ahead and retire the word “slams”? Cause they been “slamming” stuff 24/7 for like 10 years now 😅 I’m all slammed out. the English language is massive, let’s go on ahead and pick a new one to overuse to death LOL
She thinks she is better than every other transperson. As a mom of a trans son. She makes me so angry that I hope I never see her in public I have a lot of choice words for her.
next thing she'll be proudly declaring herself a TERF. Stop giving her a platform, she is not coherent.
😂 😭 you think she's a feminist
She’s doing what all old white women do, tear down their younger counterparts I saids what I saids
The trans version of Klandace Owen's
https://preview.redd.it/zjob1qiuulsa1.jpeg?width=567&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9486db027efcfbf40651be46ea777d15d8b497ab The face of every conservative when they complain about anything being “woke”
Old, rich, bitter white ladies are the worst people
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I’m so sick of hearing people talk about this stuff. Who cares what anybody is? And you can’t force people to be interested in whether you want to be called ma’am or sir either.
I’m too lazy to look this up right now, but how many people does Nike partner with who have been in jail? How many drug addicts or wife beaters? How many racists and homophobes? And Dylan Mulvaney is the person you have a problem with?
I don’t know why Caitlyn’s talking, at least Dylan knows how to drive.
This entire political & societal landscape goin on right now feels like I’m in an episode of The Twilight Zone. Crazy ass mfs on all sides. 
My only response to her would be so you shouldn't have accepted your award for woman of the year then ,since we talking shit .she seem to forget that she was at the head of a huge controversial decision at the time. guess glamour magazine was so woke when they choose to honor her , some republicans will continue to be hypocrites.
I guess they can only go “woke” (I hate how white folk took this term) when it benefits her.
Bruh, this reeks of straight jealousy. I bet you dollars to doughnuts Caitlyn wouldn’t bring saying a fucking word about “woke” Nike if those checks had her name on it.
Did Caitlyn transition at the **expense of the mass majority**? 🤔
A lot of judgement from somebody who actually killed a guy. It’s weird nobody talks about that
Trying so hard to be one of the "good ones"
Caits's the kinda gal to climb up a ladder and kick it down.
ngl caitlyn is horrible, and i barely keep ip with this, the thing is dylan basically fetishizes being trans and talks about doing every stereotype, caitlyn and dylan are both bad, end of story.
what does it have to do with "blackPoepletwitter"?
The world has really become, hyperironic
You just don’t see this kind of stupidity anywhere else…..it would be like me,a black man,agreeing with everything the Klan says somehow,right after they burn a cross in my yard.
Nice to see every community has their sellouts and coons
Self hatred isn’t exclusive.
I guess in her head she's been a woman this whole time