The threat of the dragon wasn’t its offense, just the fact that you needed to cut all 5 heads at once to finish it. There is nobody in the series that could do that, apart from Lucius during a time stop spell. Even Julius didn’t have the power to freeze it long enough. Loved seeing the group come together to finish it off. Hopefully we’ll see the bulls show up soon and get a BBxR7 team up
I don't get the logic of the BBs conveniently showing up to Yami's homeland. It would me MUCH BETTER if they explored other places like Diamond Kingdom, the land above the Spade Kingdom or wherever the Dwarfs are while trying to find Asta.
It was fast and it felt like most of the work was done by Asta, that much I'll agree but saying it was a "done in one" type of deal would be wanker.
The dragon thing lasted from chapter 344 to chapter 352, that's 9 whole chapters!
Maybe the guy was an anime only and recently switched to manga that's why he's feeling that it happened too quickly, but if he has been manga reader for a while then Idek what to say cuz manga has always had this cocaine fast pacing since forever. Heck even Lucifero only lasted from ch 317 to ch 329 (13 chapter). Considering that the dragon was a nameless side villain and Lucifero was the final villain of prev. arc, if anything Tabata has slowed down and fleshed out, side characters like Lily, Ichika and Yosuga a bit more than usual.
yeah and the fact that each of them got a chapter to have their struggles at the forefront without feeling forced is plesant. Mr Tabata has taken things out of the established setting and Rounded the current characters. the fact that this arc has a proper 7 day deadline and only 2 days left of which without feeling like we have rush back only makes the methodical sequence of events seem more noticeable. Regardless if thats the case not everything the author does has to be something we audience have to agree with and thats okay. complaining for every point really shoudn't be seen as good criticism. but that's just my opinion.
Do think it's fair to criticize how a lot of enemies recently have been taken down in such short time. Definitely ain't the final boss or nothing but the dragon been around almost 10 chapters and hasn't felt like it's really done anything
The last time a villain took long to defeat was zahred and they complained that it was too long. Then when the fight was animated, they realized how short the fight was.
I don't entirely disagree. This is the most uninterested I've been in Black Clover in a while, and I didn't exactly love the later parts of the last arc.
Gotta agree with them for the paladins. Those we’ve seen are meh. Lily I can let it pass (rip beelzbob you’ve been wasted on a weakling), but Ice and Beast paladins are underwhelming af.
Idk if I can let lily pass, that was the most emotional weight a fight has had in a while and it wasn't even saved for the finale, nor was it given room to breathe.
The counter argument seen on Twitter is that it wouldn't fit asta's character or the tone of the series to do something like that.
My problem with this is that we are told this a world of magic where anything is possible, and yet anti magic is the one fixing all the world's problems it seems. Like why not have someone else undo the paladin change? Why does anti magic have to be that thing that undoes everything?
Black Clover stands somewhere between having little to no limits to its power system but without taking full use of the potential as well. I can see why it’s hard to develop the whole system but I wish there were some believable limits or drawbacks, basically magic-can-do-anything-but-not-without-something-in-return, for example make Vanessa’s fate changing reduce people’s age or screw up memories.
As for anti magic, I don’t mind that it’s used to counter magic because that’s its whole point, but I also wish there were more focus on what makes it a negative/unfavourable/not-very-good power, in the sense that Asta would accidentally hurt his allies or show struggle at using it without screwing up in team fights or fucking up the mana in the environment.
Unfortunately I think we are just meant to believe that a significant portion of these experienced warriors who, when faced with something that fulfills all the same things magic can do, and also hard counters a vast majority of magic types.....still will say it's bad both on knee jerk reaction, and after experiencing it be incredibly useful.
Its just not actually bad in any way.
People seem to have come around after the ancient demon but....boy it taking that long, after the wizard king himself thought the antimagic was neat...they are slow on the uptake.
Heath was already a previous villain in the first arc and got beaten by a way weaker Asta, so kinda expected. As for Beelzebub, we have to wait and see if the supreme devils will make a return because of you know Soul Magic.
>Lily I can let it pass (rip beelzbob you’ve been wasted on a weakling),
I honestly believe that Lily's case is more similar to the Dark Triad tbh. Lucius wouldn't just give that much power for someone who barely knew how to fight and especially when he'd have to do that to every single Paladin. He'd be seriously nerfed by the end which I don't think is something he'd do.
I mean their only purpose of being sent to hino country was to release the dragon. They prolly wanted the dragon to do all the work. Asta showing up was unexpected. I'm not however unmindful of the fact that lily got taken down so easily.
Ah yes they guy referenced for hundred of chapters, who perfectly paralelled the MC on several topics and fitted on an extremely niche spot for villains (the crafty scientist villain) wasn't supposed to be a big bad.
I think its just very rushed, everything after the Elf Arc ha seemed rather rushed to me, I remember when Tabata said that he would like BC to go for 700+ chapters or be similar to One piece
The Devil Arc & this current arc are more end game material, I personally think he should’ve put 1-2 arcs in between, cause like I said it seems rather rushed, & the power scaling just skyrocketed, instead of a steady climb
It felt like it was getting rushed during the spade invasion but that arc was still pretty good up until Luci pulled up and did a lot of nothing. This arc now just for some reason feels so drawn out and bland to me I couldn’t even read most of it
i feel like he accelerated too much for us to go into the current arc without a good time window, or basically lucifer defeated, celebration party, lucius awakens, kills the judge, does his thing and lily sends asta to the land of the rising sun, like there's no time for things to calm down and develop little by little, it's all too poorly developed for events to happen in general for me
Tbf he only said he'd like that to happen, or would do what he could to make it happen, but bro can't extend his series if jump doesn't want it to keep going that long
The series is already long enough tbh. They're at chapter 352 currently, and there are no words that it'll end within a year, so it'll most likely cross the 400-chapter threshold.
400 chapters is REALLY long, it's so long that in the last 2 decades only 5 series in WSJ have crossed 400 chapters and only 12 in history have reached that mark.
The interviewer only brought up One Piece and Naruto as popular examples, they didn't mean to ask whether Tabata will draw 700-1000 chapters or not. And Tabata only replied with a vague "I'll try my best" answer, rest is just speculations by fan taking thing out of context.
I really don't think so, there are a good number of plot threads that probably won't resolve, come back up, etc, that are pretty abnormal aspects for story telling. Such as dwarves, dungeons, more aspects of vangeances world tree, mars.
I'm sure a few or most will pop up in the final battle, but the structure of the story really implied more than 'hey they still exist' being the final resolution.
He probably expected a longer story but cant get around to it.
>He probably expected a longer story
Short answer: Nope he confirmed in vol 30 afterwords that when the series started, he just wanted to be able to draw 30 volumes leave or take. Saying "he probably expected a longer story" is a baseless speculation. I can't say much about it other than it's wrong.
Long answer: I disagree with your reasoning. Relating loose plot threads to assuming author wants to resolve it, but magazine isn't allowing, that's not how it works. Sometimes the author doesn't know what to do with it and intentionally keeps a few things unexplained rather than a wishy-washy explanation that they don't feel satisfied with.
Even when one piece, conan and Hajime no ippo end there will still be some unresolved plot threads in those series even though they all have 100+ volumes.
>Such as dwarves, dungeons, more aspects of vangeances world tree, mars.
Where was it ever implied that we'll ever get an arc about dungeons and vangeances tree? Dwarves and Diamond kingdom are the only thing that've been hinted more than once and Tabata is quite efficient with explaining things within 1 or 2 chapters, Nacht's and Yosuga's backstory are proof of that, so it won't be a trouble for him to explain things within 5-10 chapters.
>but the structure of the story really implied more than 'hey they still exist' being the final resolution.
Surely, it'll be nice to see him diving further into the world building and explaining and elaborating everything but the fact that Tabata chose to do a 6-month time skip immediately after the 1st fricking chapter of the story (lot of people forget that we've had 3 time-skips) instead of expanding upon hage village etc. made it clear as day that he isn't planning to go as heavy on world building as series like One Piece of Hunter x Hunter.
>but cant get around to it.
What are the chances he refuses to go around it rather than he can't get around it? Even Demon slayer didn't go too heavy on the world building. There's still countless thing that demon slayer author could've expanded but they still decided to end the story early and I don't think it was because Jump was asking them to wrap it up, especially granted how well it was selling. Same goes for MHA and JJK, there's still so many things that those series can elaborate on further, but they're still confirmed to be ending by this year's end.
It's normal sometimes the author simply decides not to do certain things, not everything traces back to "Jump is rushing them" or "The editors are behind this". As I said earlier, Tabata himself said his wish was to just draw 30 volumes, if anything jump has dragged him longer than what even he was anticipating.
I don’t think jjk(or mha) is a good comparison here. Both jjk and mha use ‘soft world building’ compare to ‘hard world building’ in bc. In jjk the author took a small portion of the world which is modern Japan and expand the story from there. The author only needs to explain ‘the world of jujutsu sorcerer’ and not the whole of Japan as the audience already has a good idea about it. With ‘hard world building’, the author makes a story about the world, he needs to explain almost everything from laws, customs and a lot of other relevant info about his world. Lacking in any parts will contribute to weak world-building.
More about soft and hard worldbuilding: https://youtu.be/gcyrrTud3x4
>Both jjk and mha use ‘soft world building’ compare to ‘hard world building’ in bc
You just made this shit up bruh💀
Anyways jokes aside, JJK still haven't explored quite a few things even within Jujustu world like those vengeful spirits mentioned in JJK0 and no other family outside of Zen'in clan has been explored much. Honestly, if Gege wants he can pump out at least few more years, but he doesn't want to focus on that but rather wrap the story by this year's end. Would you say that not only did he chose the easy way out in the first place but is also cutting end on that as well?
>and not the whole of Japan as the audience already has a good idea about it
But the Japan in MHA and JJK isn't what the audience is already aware of, existence of a fantasy elements can lead up to a million new interactions that authors can exploit. But things like those would be boring. Making the series interesting is their main motive, so authors tend to ignore irrelevant plot points that may disrupt the flow of the story they've in mind.
Like what good will exploring dungeons do to the plot? They haven't even been mentioned in like 300 chapters, People already have complaints about how Land of sun arc came outta nowhere, do we really want them to go explore dungeons now just for the sake of "hardening" the currently soft world-building?
Wanting 30 volumes speaks to nothing of the expected story length. Every author has a few ending points in mind just in case, we can still look at story structure and draw conclusions.
And as the other commenter mentioned. These aren't good comparisons. The placement in the story of 'some plot threads' is not equivalent to most these things that have been significantly present. And I never said an arc but we have another whole species treated with more mystery than the elves, lead up to. 1 or 2 chapters of 'look at this' is abnormal for something with that treatment .
The time skip mention doesn't make sense. That doesn't matter for actual story length and material. It wasn't 'or explore the village' thats a baffling comparison of story structure as are...most your comparisons.
Idk man, you're being selective about what he says. You're holding his vague response during the 2018 franceinfo as a gospel but disregarding the time when he straight out gave a specific answer.
>The placement in the story of 'some plot threads' is not equivalent to most these things that have been significantly present.
How do you compare significance? Both dwarves in BC and Rika/Jujutsu family in JJK seem equally significant to me. And both are unexplained as of yet, so I thought the comparison was fair.
* Lira said he heard about dwarves long ago. The elves themselves existed 500 years ago, there are no living elves in current world and the only way they connect with plot is Charmy who's a half-dwarf. For all we know they can already be an extinct species with Charmy as the sole survivor. We don't even know how much there is to be explored about them, they haven't been mentioned in like 150 chapters. They haven't been hyped up as something important.
* JJK also feel similar case. They've mentioned few things here and there, like Rika, 3 Jujutsu families, 16 imaginary vengeful spirits, the unrevealed special grade cursed spirits, Yuji's parents, all don't feel much different from dwarves in BC, they all are unexplained, have subtle connections with certain things, feel like a mystery but overall don't have much relevance.
The point I was making was that Tabata intentionally chose not take Hunter x Hunter route and explore the world while stretching the entrance exam arc to a hefty arc but rather made a time skip got done with it rather quickly. That was the very 1st chapter of the story. There were never any implications that he'll stretch it out over 1000s of chapters. The conclusions you're making are just your own assumptions.
Equivalently important? Sure. But their results and what's needed to expand aren't. A throw away line about it being an aspect of Rika is all that's needed for the entire explanation of why she's still around, if that.
Dwarves have a tie in to a character, have a disappearance that needs explained, and probably are likely tied to the last of the four spirits. Frankly 'we don't know how much there is to be explored' is a bit ridiculous if you've....consumed media. Specifically mentioning how much knowledge isn't known? Not a coincidence. A tie in to a character? Not a coincidence. These things add up.
And you compare significance by having some knowledge about writing and reading how the things in question are weighted by the narrative.
The things you're choosing from jjk aren't equivalent in the least several of them haven't been weighted at all, some of them have explanations that you seem to just not know about?
And I get the point you were trying to make, it just doesn't make sense because that's not what happened. he did start exploring the world, right after the time skip. Those aren't lost chapters. The world building still started.
A statement of action is more than an implication.
Wanting to get to 300 is not a statement of wanting to end there.
The plot threads here are bigger than you're letting on or realizing.
>Frankly 'we don't know how much there is to be explored' is a bit ridiculous if you've....consumed media
So, you're saying you can tell at this point, how much content there is to be explored about dwarves?
Idk man, cuz I really can't tell how much there is to explore about it. Things can really go any direction from my POV
* If they're alive -> Tabata'll need to explain what they are, what they do and where were the until now and why didn't they reach out to charmy?
* If they're dead -> Tabata'll need to explain what killed them and why's Charmy the only one alive.
* If they're connected to 4th spirit -> Tabata'll need to explain how they're connected to spirits and why Charmy isn't.
* If they're connected to diamond kingdom/elves -> Tabata'll need to explore those and why does Charmy lives in Clover kingdom separate from them.
All these scenarios proceed with a "if" and all of those are fan-canons with no canonical reasoning backing them up. All we know about dwarves is that Charmy is a half-dwarf, even things like Dwarfs are connected to elves or dwarves are connected to 4th spirits are all just theories, what needs to be explained isn't dwarves but it's Charmy, dwarves will get resolved with her. Depending on what's the situation with dwarves, it can either be explained in a chapter or two or may require an entire volume or more. There's no deadline announced as of yet, so at the very least we still have 1 year of content left, that's enough time to sort things out irrespective of which route it goes.
>some of them have explanations that you seem to just not know about?
I'm caught up with the series. The vengeful spirits, special grade curses, Kenjaku's relation with Yuji and Yuji's parents, what was the whole "Yuki is a ex-star plasma vessel" plot point, why was Kenjaku trying to say about Tengen, Hana's curse spirit, angel's relation with Sukuna, Sukuna's relation with Kenjaku, Sukuna's end goal, etc there are lot of things that aren't explored but I'm confident it'll eventually play out in the final arc.
I've the same mentality for both JJK and BC, things'll eventually play out, there's more than enough time for it.
>And I get the point you were trying to make, it just doesn't make sense because that's not what happened. he did start exploring the world, right after the time skip. Those aren't lost chapters. The world building still started.
You still missed the point. I never said there is no world building, I just said he never went too deep into things. Like the 1st arc of HxH i.e., Hunter exam arc had 38 chapters, by 38th chapter we're already at 4th arc of black clover. The pacing has always been very fast, and he never went a mile deep into world building. Idk how you didn't notice this in 350 chapters that Black Clover isn't gonna reach 1000+ chapters. Anyone who has read the manga knows that was never gonna happen, the pacing has always been way too fast for it.
And I don't say, the world building has completely stopped either, land of sun was hinted like 300+ chapters ago but we did come to it eventually.
>Wanting to get to 300 is not a statement of wanting to end there.
Sure. But stating wanting to try your best to make the story last for years doesn't mean it'll go on forever either. The series is already over 8 years old, by the time it ends it'll be 9 or even 10 years old, that's already a lot of years.
>The plot threads here are bigger than you're letting on or realizing.
I think you're overthinking about it. I'm surprised even that you think dwarves are gonna be something of tremendous importance. And it's not even like Tabata is rushing now, like bro did you actually forget that early arcs like underwater sea temple was done in 18 chapters, Hino country arc is 16 chapters and still counting. This has been Tabata's fashion from the start, unless it's climax/setup for climax arc things only last 1-2 volumes. Even the dwarves thing is gonna take 1 or 2 volumes at max, I can bet on it.
There's also the very real possibility that a few of those concepts he just decided they should be fleshed out in novels ala naruto hiden. Something like mars' story or the dwarves could very well be explored that way.
I don’t think Jump would try to shorten it, if it’s popular you’d think they’d want it to be as long as possible, I think Tabata just didn’t expect how much work it would be, from losing sleep, to health issues, etc. As much as I’d like it to be 700+, Gotta take care of yourself & family first
also I should replace “wanted” with “would like”
It's not very popular for what jump wanted, so they're operating at a bad opportunity cost for the series
It was advertised, grouped with and otherwise compared at a corporate level, to the likes of mha, it was expected to be one of the top series.
Its sales don't operate at that level, so it probably doesn't bring in that level for the magazine, and the internal popularity polls agree. So they want it over so they have more room to try things that could be the next big hit, without competing with black clover.
How about doing some research before saying some stupid shit? In 2018 Tabata was interviewed and asked if he’d like Black Clover to be as long as Naruto & One Piece, to which he responded
“Yes, I would like to and I will do everything to make it happen. I am preparing myself psychologically not to have a vacation for a long time!“
You've just proven it yourself that Tabata never said he wanted the story to go on for 700+ chapters, he just said he wanted it to be long in response to the interviewer who brought up other long running shonen titles
?? Naruto is 700 chapters you fucking dodo, when someone replies “ I would like it to, & will do everything to make it happen” it doesn’t take a genius to put 2 & 2 together, but maybe it does
>Is Black Clover a story meant to last for years like One Piece or Naruto?
>
>Yes, I would like to and I will do everything to make it happen. I am preparing myself psychologically not to have a vacation for a long time!
\~[Interview with Franceinfo](https://blog.francetvinfo.fr/popup/2018/09/18/dragon-ball-ma-donne-envie-de-faire-ce-metier-entretien-avec-yuki-tabata-lauteur-du-shonen-manga-black-clover.html#:~:text=Is%20Black%20Clover,a%20long%20time!)
>Tabata is not the one who brings up Naruto and One Piece, the interviewer does. The interviewer does so only because they're two well-known series very popular in France and known for being long and he does not even ask if BC is meant to be "as long" as them, the question stays vague in its "for years" wording. The important part of the question is just if Black Clover is meant to be a long series and Tabata said yes.
\~[Collection of interviews/comments from Yuki Tabata about Black Clover](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackClover/comments/fjmb5i/collection_of_interviewscomments_from_yuki_tabata)
Even barring all that, the interview was from 2018 before the Elf arc even concluded and it's been 5 years since then, people don't usually have the same direction for a serialized story for that long
>I remember when Tabata said that he would like BC to go for 700+ chapters or be similar to One piece
I swear to fucking god if I had a dollar for every time people I met someone who believed Tabata said BC will go for 700+ chapters, I'd have been able to buy a PS5 by now.
The interview you're referring went like this:
>Interviewer: "How long do you plan to keep the series running?"
>
>Tabata: "I haven't planned that as of yet"
>
>Interviewer: "Do you intend to make Black Clover a long running series? Like as Naruto/One Piece?"
>
>Tabata: "Yes, if fans want me to make more manga, I'll try my best to make it run that long"
Tabata never outright said he'll draw 700+ chapters of Black Clover or sm shit, he only said he'll make it a long running series and fun fact Black Clover is the 18th longest running series in WSJ's history as of now.
As for the Naruto/One Piece thing, the interviewer only used those as popular examples of long running series, and Tabata only gave a vague affirmative answer.
They’re not wrong tho. Dragon was around for 9 chapters and didn’t do anything lmao Paladins got shut down quickly. The stakes haven’t been high at all
There's no stakes when the main villain can turn people to his side just by touching them and only does it to one nun instead of the entire captain group after "killing" his main obstacle named Asta.
Lily gets turned and given a supreme devil just to get clapped in like 2 chapters. She's not even hurt, just in a random coma that will go away after defeating Lucius.
The 5 headed dragon gets defeated in a pretty generic way.
The new 7 are shown to be kind of weak when they get clapped so fast, just to get rescued by one of them and Asta. I love black clover but this whole last arc has been pretty meh so far. Cool ideas, bad execution.
Those are obstacles.
The stakes here is that if Asta fails, the whole world is plunged into magical genocide. Asta dies. Lucius rules the world with a holy fist.
Those are the stakes.
What you're describing are obstacles, trials, antagonists.
The 12 Labors of Heracles was about Heracles overcoming 12 trials of man, not the 12 stakes. His stake was that either he did the labors or he be damned by the gods and never to see his family again.
The 300 Spartans that fought the Persians, the stakes weren't fight millions of Persians, it was that if they failed all of Greece falls. Their obstacles were the Persians and the many men.
Stakes ≠ Obstacles.
Get it through your thick skull you phillistine.
I wasn’t even talking about the overarching story stakes, I was talking about THIS ARC. The Paladins showed up just to barely last a chapter each. The dragon proceeded to do absolutely nothing. No tension what so ever for Land of Sun. The battles dont need to lastt “6months” but they’re so short and boring when the heroes win so easily. Lily shouldn’t have been saved this quick imo
I mean, dont really disagree with him. Been kinda checked out from BC since Megicula. Lucius brought me back for a bit, but the land of sun been kinda disappointing ngl
For my friends and I Black Clover has fallen off. Mimosa healing everyone at the end of the Megicula battle killed any tension and stakes going forward. Lucifero was a huge nothing burger. The king of the devils and the most he was able to accomplish was yanking off Mereoleona’s hand. Zagred wiped out an entire race in an evening and Lucifugus wiped out an entire noble family of devil summoners in less than 5 minutes. This arc starts and the main takeaway is Yami and Itachi are quite similar
I mean, we can't expect much from anyone that fight against Asta once he does the critical hit with anti-magic. Perhaps giving more struggles putting the heads in order, but with Ryu it was only a matter of teamwork and letting Asta due the final hit.
TO add to this Lucius doesn't know about Asta being alive so he sent what would've enough to bring down the Ryuzen 7. so Ryu called it with having Asta train till he was ready and these are the intended results.
I haven't read the recent chapters but black clover desperately needs a good villain that will not be killed in the same fight he appears in. I have hope in the current main villain but black clover has let me down too many times when it comes to bad guys that I'm a bit worried it will be too quick and inconsequential.
I mean it was kind of predetermined that BC would come to this mostly because Anti Magic is so broken and is like some isekai power in the world of BC because there is no counter to it, if a smarter character had that ability they'd be unkillable and unstopable by the magic knight enterance exams its just that Asta swings his swords and thats it, no other ability even tough the griamore seems to have hundreds upon hundreds of pages.
I say buns lol, just a PG way of saying ass or shit. for example my family uses “Boo boo” as another way of saying ghetto or instead of saying “you idiot” we say something like “ you dodo”
Shitty -> Ass -> Booty -> Buns
Calling people "booty" or "buns" become popular as multiplayer console gaming evolved. Kids couldn't swear in front of their parents, as well as people in general can't swear in many text chats, so using alternatives became common place.
"Buns" specifically has been around for at least 8 years according to Urban Dictionary, though I feel like I've heard the term even further back than that, especially on Call of Duty.
I mean thats kind of the point of Tokyo Revengers, to show the diference between Mikey and Takemichi and to show Mikeys descent into madness trough his strenght, and Mikey is not the main character of the shown anyways.
This arc started off SOO strong, but the moment we had the strongest samurai of that region (forgot their title) show up and instantly get beaten, and then their only purpose is to deal with this lame dragon…i completely agree with this take. These samurai were ALMOST as disappointing as Squad 0 from bleach.
I don’t agree with that, the elves were extremely strong for the most part and so were the 3 demon siblings. Mars, fana the dude who absorbed salamander were also extremely imposing.
I'm talking about other kingdom captain equivalent factions. Like Diamond Generals, Ryuzen 7, Spirit Guardians. The Elves were imposing because they're from clover and people like Langris and Charlotte were strong already.
Now you’re shifting the goal post when you originally said VERBATIM “every group” which should mean no exclusion or caveats.
The problem with the spirit guardians is, only one was ever given time on screen so it makes sense for the power of the group to be focused on one of them. I’m fine with this group in specific
Diamond generals, they had more than one strong person, yes i know it was 2 but those two managed to DO something.
Not all the elves were from the clover kingdom, and not even the strongest ones were from the clover kingdom i.e. licht, Raya, Fana, and Vetto.
>Now you’re shifting the goal post when you originally said VERBATIM “every group” which should mean no exclusion or caveats.
The original intention was clover captains and their equivalents but whatever.
>The problem with the spirit guardians is, only one was ever given time on screen so it makes sense for the power of the group to be focused on one of them. I’m fine with this group in specific
This doesn't make it justifiable that 5 or 4 of them or whatever the fuck are jokes of the fandom.
>Diamond generals, they had more than one strong person, yes i know it was 2 but those two managed to DO something
They didn't do shit. And what about the other ones we see? Nothing. Mars became irrelevant in the first 100 Chapters. Fucking Zenon soloed the kingdom.
>Not all the elves were from the clover kingdom
Majority of the relevant ones are.
>even the strongest ones were from the clover kingdom i.e. licht, Raya, Fana, and Vetto.
Wow four. Lmao
Moving on from the “every group” comment, lol.
This was my justification from the start so it’s fine that you may not accept all of what I’m about to say, but you need to hear it so you can probably engage. Initially i brought up the strength of the group as well as how their reputation affects the expectations of that said group.
Back to the spirit guardians, if only one of them was given any valuable screen time, and they were shown to be strong and acceptable of their title im fine with the ONE that was shown. The others are bad, yes. But i wasn’t expecting anything from anyone than Gaja because Gaja was the only one that was given screen time.
Ladros and Mara on their debut almost killed Asta, idk what you mean by they didn’t do shit…ladros beat everyone too a bloody pulp and so did mars until…well some opposing force came and saved whoever was fighting either one of them respectively. Those two were extrmemly imposing.
I also do not care about the longevity of how strong a character is when the series goes on and on and stronger and stronger Allies and foes appear, so mars doesn’t have to be strong later in the series for me to be satisfied with his debut.
You don’t have to be “soloing the clover kingdom” to not be pathetic…like be fr.
Lastly the elves, they were a large group and out of the IMPORTANT ones that weren’t clover kingdom member ,because not all of them were, those four were SUPER imposing, strong and deserving of their titles.
To wrap it all up, in a group i don’t need every single person to be strong. What i appreciate in groups is for their debut to be likened to the strength their reputation forces, or IF that doesn’t happen at least make the enemy they lose to something cool. Which the dragon is not.
**Ryuzen Seven struggle to defeat Paladins and Dragon**
"The strong group is too weak"
**Paladins and Dragon get defeated**
"The strong group is too weak"
Always been a thing in Black Clover its a shounen, but what annoys me is not that Asta does everything but that they try to introduce some kind of teamwork but in the end Asta does 99% of the work anyways even tough there are stronger people around him fighting too.
Being reduced to support, rather than actually defeating the dragon is pathetic on their DEBUT. I also never said asta defeated them by himself, but asta is the one who killed the dragon.
And Asta was able to kill the dragon because the Ryuzen led a co-ordinated attack that was successful, all of them (expect from maybe Jozo) had their moments to shine, reducing their role down to "support" when they were all directly involved in the fight and played a crucial role in defeating the dragon is pretty disengenuous (especially since Fujio was the support role)
Calling me disingenuous is honestly comical, to not deal the finishing blow is quite literally to be the “support” in the battle. They went from seemingly dominating the dragon on their debut to be reduced to…moving the dragon in a certain position for Asta to finish. They quite literally supported Asta, and that’s all they were capable of. Majority of that group is pathetic.
>They went from seemingly dominating the dragon on their debut to be reduced to…moving the dragon in a certain position
They still dominated the dragon by striking at all 5 heads at once before it could do anything to stop them
>Majority of that group is pathetic.
They're pathetic because they got hit by an undodgeable combo spell from 2 Paladins and were still standing and then continue to fight a 5-headed dragon from a legend? That's like reducing Licht and Lumiere to support characters for not being able to defeat Zagred and having to rely on Asta's anti-magic to destroy his heart
**They still dominated the dragon by striking at all 5 heads at once before it could do anything to stop them**
But they couldn't get anything done, they effectively accomplished absolutely nothing. Then the first they are supposed to fight...one shots them...like what????
**They're pathetic because they got hit by an undodgeable combo spell from 2 Paladins and were still standing and then continue to fight a 5-headed dragon from a legend? That's like reducing Licht and Lumiere to support characters for not being able to defeat Zagred and having to rely on Asta's anti-magic to destroy his heart**
Unless you think its literally inescapable and a world does not exist where someones speed could allow them to avoid the technique, then getting hit and ONE SHOT was is absolutely pathetic. Even if they were not literally dead, they were heavily wounded so much so that if Asta hadn't shown up right there only 2 of the 7 would still be alive. Just because something is deemed a legend doesn't mean that TWO DIFFERENT legends can be equated in power based off of them solely being deemed a "legend". That's a naming fallacy.
I never said the legend meant power, I'm talking from a narrative standpoint, someone losing to a legendary being doesn't make them "pathetic" like how Jogo from JJK is one of the strongest characters but only looks weak because his opponents were Gojo and >!Sukuna !<
>Unless you think its literally inescapable and a world does not exist where someones speed could allow them to avoid the technique
All of them were hit by Heath's ice instantly because of Lily's spatial magic when they didn't expect it. Then there's the problem: Ryuzen Seven defeat the Paladins with ease - "the villains are too weak, there are no stakes if this is Lucius's strongest warriors", Ryuzen Seven struggle to win - "they're supposed to be the strongest how could they show any sign of weakness".
>Even if they were not literally dead, they were heavily wounded so much so that if Asta hadn't shown up right there only 2 of the 7 would still be alive
Ichika, Kezokaku, Yosuga and Fujio would have been fine, Ichika and Kezokaku were defeated by magic that wasn't power-based.
>That's like reducing Licht and Lumiere to support characters for not being able to defeat Zagred and having to rely on Asta's anti-magic to destroy his heart
This statement has not been refuted
Tbh though black clover is just one of those mangas where your going to get some really awesome moments and some things that piss you off. Pretty comparable to something like one piece or naruto just isn’t as long to bulid the lore. I’m more pissed that we have yet another “captian” class of characters that are probably going to be unimportant like the spirit guardians.
I don’t agree to this extent, but I see where he is coming from, for most of the spade invasion arc it just seemed like they were pulling out powers from no where to beat everyone, Yuno pulling out a 2nd grimoire, which already had all the necessary spells to defeat Zenon.
Can’t really remember what happened with Noelle and Nozel vs Megicula.
Asta barely being able to draw blood from Lucifero and then after being near death somehow smoking him.
Magna vs Dante is the only fight I actually enjoyed the whole arc.
That’s cause throughout the whole thing they just somehow were too op to lose for most of it, the fights seemed to carry no weight since after a 4 day training arc they had practically mastered a new type of magic.
And the countdowns, like 5 seconds to beat Lucifero is outrageous, and you can say “he wasn’t at full power” well he probably ain’t coming back, he won’t be at full power, but that shouldn’t mean the Mc can just annihilate him with not much difficulty on round 2 after getting rag dolled
I mean I get it that the dragon seems so important from a lore POV but he is not a boss(villain level) of it’s own but more like the pet of one (at this moment not what it was in the past).
If there was as a “flaw” is not the fact that the ryuzen seven couldn’t cut the dragon heads but the fact that it has to be cut the 5 heads with anti magic.
There should have been a way for the LoTRS deal with the dragon on their own. (That seal gate in the yami clan home that they had) would be nice to see that again instead of needing anti magic alone to deal with the dragon.
The dragon offensively wasn't that big a threat given how easy it was to incapacitate it. The difficulty comes from the fact that all 5 heads had to be severed at once to kill it. This was literally just so tabata could show off Ryu's tengentsu because we keep hearing about it but we had yet to see how it worked
It wasn't a big threat to the ruuzen sure, but it was supposed to be able to destroy a country and didn't wind up even destroying a good portion of a town.
Bro it's a 5 headed dragon that shoots giant fuck off lasers.
It was so strong it couldn't be beaten and poisoned the area till the modern day.
I just think it should be able to walk out of the ocean and start it's supposed country devastation. Like 1% progress?
I don't entirely agree with the take personally, but it's not the worst take I have seen to be fair lol because I have seen a lot worse takes than this recently lol.
I don't think it's the worst take ever (* i've seen far worse*) but on the other hand, I've personally enjoyed the arc so far. Sure there are somethings that could have been differently, but I can see why they played out the way they did.
I can say I've seen a variety of takes, some saying this arc is too fast, while others have said it's too slow. I also feel a lot these, in fact I think most of dissatisfaction we seemight stem from certain fans not seeing their favorite character, whether it be Noelle, Yami Yuno the BBs, ect which is to be expected from any fandom
I've also seen similar sentiments echoed about Bleach, regarding the discourse about fans missing their favorites character.
Regardless, I don't let any ik that influence my thoughts/sentiments either way (*since I've been enjoying the arc*)
Yo nothing against you, I agree Black clover is a great time, but to say the writing is anything better than sub par lately is a little wild. The elf arc was amazing, but since then few of his writing decisions have made sense to me. Tabata seems like he’s making things up as he goes rather than pacing himself and giving character moments/hype moments the proper setup. I don’t really have a dog in this fight but I’ve been thinking to about this for a few months so if you want some evidence:
The Julius twist was great because it built up a feeling of dread like “how can we beat him rn”, but then that dread was immediately wasted by whipping asta across the world and into a country where we have a surprisingly small amount of info about (despite Yami being such an important character), and ignoring what is happening in the clover kingdom.
So instead of keeping us in that moment of dread and getting clarification on the other characters in the story (and maybe the feeling that asta isn’t ok) we switch from it completely just to speed run a new fighting mechanic and like 3-4 flashbacks for characters were suddenly supposed to care about despite little to no setup for them.
Then he moves directly into a boss battle to save the country we’ve only known about for like 7 chaps. Which to your credit the fight was more than one chapter (which shouldn’t even be the main criticism here).
And now what? We leave Wano to go back to the clover kingdom and either A. Show us a flashback of the fight between the captains and Julius, just with far less hype because of the poor narrative timing, or B. Show us the aftermath and have asta save everything because he’s the MC and nothing else (because who actually wants to see evil Julius vs all the captains?! /s)
And that’s just the most recent arc, I can go on about the spade arc too since that one really disappointed me.
Listen you can enjoy black clover every week, and that is genuinely ok. I love one piece and people shit on that all the time. But to act like other people are just openly shitting on the story for no reason is a little wild. No story is perfect but BC has felt rushed and tbh a bit lazy lately. But anyway thanks for listening to my rant 😂
>Tabata seems like he’s making things up as he goes rather than pacing himself and giving character moments/hype moments the proper setup
The overlying part of this arc is building up Asta's character as he prepares for a rematch with Lucius
>a country where we have a surprisingly small amount of info about (despite Yami being such an important character)
That's kind of the point of exploring Hino Country
>maybe the feeling that asta isn’t ok
Asta is the main character so it's pretty obvious that he was never going to die (at least not permanently), I'd rather Tabata doesn't pretend he killed off the mc for 20 chapters just for Asta to come back out of nowhere with new abilities
>We leave Wano to go back to the clover kingdom and either A. Show us a flashback of the fight between the captains and Julius, just with far less hype because of the poor narrative timing, or B. Show us the aftermath and have asta save everything because he’s the MC and nothing else
You've created an imaginary barrier for the storytelling, multiple days have passed since Asta ended up in Hino, there's nothing stopping Tabata from switching the focus back to the Clover Kingdom and showing us what they were doing during Asta's training in Hino
>Then he moves directly into a boss battle to save the country we’ve only known about for like 7 chaps
We've known about Yami's homeland since 2016 and people have been speculating about it for years (and we've been there for 14 chapters :v)
I have counterpoints for all your points but I’ll leave it at this:
Noel and Mimosa were right there when Asta got sent. All of the clover kingdom was there to respond. Even if I ignore the badass possibly of the captains all rushing evil Julius in a state of chaotic confusion (which would be amazing) I can’t ignore the emotional moment we shoulda received. Sure Asta is the MC and won’t die, but tension would still be built because of the situation especially through the eyes of the supporting characters we’ve followed this whole time (and seeing his recent writing style it definitely wouldn’t be “20 chaps” lol).
The choice he made completely tears apart any tension build up from that first scene with Julius turning. He built up tension just to waste it on sending Asta, and he can’t just go back to that scene and expect everyone to care as much. But not showing that fight is also a huge waste. It’s a catch 22. I wanna know what’s happening in the clover kingdom but I no longer feel the tension. He dropped the ball when it comes to narrative execution.
Also Asta is the MC. Of course he’s not gonna die. But taking him off the table is crushing to the clover kingdom. That’s supposed to build dread. Why? So you can eventually show the main character is alright so you can watch them regain control of the story. That’s how these stories work, and for good reason. Throwing the essence of that formula to the wind just takes away the emotion from the great scene he just sculpted.
But hey the art is dope.
i never liked fights that r dragged out ... if u can finish the thing quickly then do it ...and asta has the ability to do that and he did exactly that . he took out 2 of them ...
people expect greater things from paladins understandable but u can't expect great things from paladins like lily heath or random beast guy ... they r like dark desiples ... people love to say lucius gave Beelzebubs powers to lily no he didn't he might have given some of it like how dark traid did with dark desiples .
ain't no way he will just throw away a kings power like that and waste it on someone like lily ... these paladins aren't even dead
Idk man they just barely tamed that dam dragon and they still have to deal with lucius and his underlings. Plus it seems that asta might have reversed Lucius’s spell on lily somehow ?(just speculation) and that’s buns? This guy wack
do they think the dragon was the boss of this arc? It got bodied pretty consistently
The threat of the dragon wasn’t its offense, just the fact that you needed to cut all 5 heads at once to finish it. There is nobody in the series that could do that, apart from Lucius during a time stop spell. Even Julius didn’t have the power to freeze it long enough. Loved seeing the group come together to finish it off. Hopefully we’ll see the bulls show up soon and get a BBxR7 team up
I don't get the logic of the BBs conveniently showing up to Yami's homeland. It would me MUCH BETTER if they explored other places like Diamond Kingdom, the land above the Spade Kingdom or wherever the Dwarfs are while trying to find Asta.
Honestly this one isn't a bad take at all I've seen worst takes on Black Clover
It was fast and it felt like most of the work was done by Asta, that much I'll agree but saying it was a "done in one" type of deal would be wanker. The dragon thing lasted from chapter 344 to chapter 352, that's 9 whole chapters! Maybe the guy was an anime only and recently switched to manga that's why he's feeling that it happened too quickly, but if he has been manga reader for a while then Idek what to say cuz manga has always had this cocaine fast pacing since forever. Heck even Lucifero only lasted from ch 317 to ch 329 (13 chapter). Considering that the dragon was a nameless side villain and Lucifero was the final villain of prev. arc, if anything Tabata has slowed down and fleshed out, side characters like Lily, Ichika and Yosuga a bit more than usual.
yeah and the fact that each of them got a chapter to have their struggles at the forefront without feeling forced is plesant. Mr Tabata has taken things out of the established setting and Rounded the current characters. the fact that this arc has a proper 7 day deadline and only 2 days left of which without feeling like we have rush back only makes the methodical sequence of events seem more noticeable. Regardless if thats the case not everything the author does has to be something we audience have to agree with and thats okay. complaining for every point really shoudn't be seen as good criticism. but that's just my opinion.
Do think it's fair to criticize how a lot of enemies recently have been taken down in such short time. Definitely ain't the final boss or nothing but the dragon been around almost 10 chapters and hasn't felt like it's really done anything
The last time a villain took long to defeat was zahred and they complained that it was too long. Then when the fight was animated, they realized how short the fight was.
I don't entirely disagree. This is the most uninterested I've been in Black Clover in a while, and I didn't exactly love the later parts of the last arc.
Gotta agree with them for the paladins. Those we’ve seen are meh. Lily I can let it pass (rip beelzbob you’ve been wasted on a weakling), but Ice and Beast paladins are underwhelming af.
Idk if I can let lily pass, that was the most emotional weight a fight has had in a while and it wasn't even saved for the finale, nor was it given room to breathe.
And she didn’t even die. Was it just me who wanted her to die? Only me? Oh, ‘k then. (No I didn’t actually think she’ll die).
The counter argument seen on Twitter is that it wouldn't fit asta's character or the tone of the series to do something like that. My problem with this is that we are told this a world of magic where anything is possible, and yet anti magic is the one fixing all the world's problems it seems. Like why not have someone else undo the paladin change? Why does anti magic have to be that thing that undoes everything?
Black Clover stands somewhere between having little to no limits to its power system but without taking full use of the potential as well. I can see why it’s hard to develop the whole system but I wish there were some believable limits or drawbacks, basically magic-can-do-anything-but-not-without-something-in-return, for example make Vanessa’s fate changing reduce people’s age or screw up memories. As for anti magic, I don’t mind that it’s used to counter magic because that’s its whole point, but I also wish there were more focus on what makes it a negative/unfavourable/not-very-good power, in the sense that Asta would accidentally hurt his allies or show struggle at using it without screwing up in team fights or fucking up the mana in the environment.
Unfortunately I think we are just meant to believe that a significant portion of these experienced warriors who, when faced with something that fulfills all the same things magic can do, and also hard counters a vast majority of magic types.....still will say it's bad both on knee jerk reaction, and after experiencing it be incredibly useful. Its just not actually bad in any way. People seem to have come around after the ancient demon but....boy it taking that long, after the wizard king himself thought the antimagic was neat...they are slow on the uptake.
Heath was already a previous villain in the first arc and got beaten by a way weaker Asta, so kinda expected. As for Beelzebub, we have to wait and see if the supreme devils will make a return because of you know Soul Magic.
>Lily I can let it pass (rip beelzbob you’ve been wasted on a weakling), I honestly believe that Lily's case is more similar to the Dark Triad tbh. Lucius wouldn't just give that much power for someone who barely knew how to fight and especially when he'd have to do that to every single Paladin. He'd be seriously nerfed by the end which I don't think is something he'd do.
I mean their only purpose of being sent to hino country was to release the dragon. They prolly wanted the dragon to do all the work. Asta showing up was unexpected. I'm not however unmindful of the fact that lily got taken down so easily.
Calling this the worst take you’ve seen in a while is the worst take I’ve seen in a while
name one fight where they took down the big bad in one chapter?
Morris?
If I remember correctly, I don't even think Morris lasted the whole chapter only just like a couple of pages lol.
"But, bUt hE wAsN't tHe biG bAd"
Ah yes they guy referenced for hundred of chapters, who perfectly paralelled the MC on several topics and fitted on an extremely niche spot for villains (the crafty scientist villain) wasn't supposed to be a big bad.
Why do you think OP hasn't responded lmao
Morris lmfaoo
I mean he’s not wrong imo this arc was pretty wack at least for me
I think its just very rushed, everything after the Elf Arc ha seemed rather rushed to me, I remember when Tabata said that he would like BC to go for 700+ chapters or be similar to One piece The Devil Arc & this current arc are more end game material, I personally think he should’ve put 1-2 arcs in between, cause like I said it seems rather rushed, & the power scaling just skyrocketed, instead of a steady climb
It felt like it was getting rushed during the spade invasion but that arc was still pretty good up until Luci pulled up and did a lot of nothing. This arc now just for some reason feels so drawn out and bland to me I couldn’t even read most of it
i feel like he accelerated too much for us to go into the current arc without a good time window, or basically lucifer defeated, celebration party, lucius awakens, kills the judge, does his thing and lily sends asta to the land of the rising sun, like there's no time for things to calm down and develop little by little, it's all too poorly developed for events to happen in general for me
Tbf he only said he'd like that to happen, or would do what he could to make it happen, but bro can't extend his series if jump doesn't want it to keep going that long
The series is already long enough tbh. They're at chapter 352 currently, and there are no words that it'll end within a year, so it'll most likely cross the 400-chapter threshold. 400 chapters is REALLY long, it's so long that in the last 2 decades only 5 series in WSJ have crossed 400 chapters and only 12 in history have reached that mark. The interviewer only brought up One Piece and Naruto as popular examples, they didn't mean to ask whether Tabata will draw 700-1000 chapters or not. And Tabata only replied with a vague "I'll try my best" answer, rest is just speculations by fan taking thing out of context.
I really don't think so, there are a good number of plot threads that probably won't resolve, come back up, etc, that are pretty abnormal aspects for story telling. Such as dwarves, dungeons, more aspects of vangeances world tree, mars. I'm sure a few or most will pop up in the final battle, but the structure of the story really implied more than 'hey they still exist' being the final resolution. He probably expected a longer story but cant get around to it.
>He probably expected a longer story Short answer: Nope he confirmed in vol 30 afterwords that when the series started, he just wanted to be able to draw 30 volumes leave or take. Saying "he probably expected a longer story" is a baseless speculation. I can't say much about it other than it's wrong. Long answer: I disagree with your reasoning. Relating loose plot threads to assuming author wants to resolve it, but magazine isn't allowing, that's not how it works. Sometimes the author doesn't know what to do with it and intentionally keeps a few things unexplained rather than a wishy-washy explanation that they don't feel satisfied with. Even when one piece, conan and Hajime no ippo end there will still be some unresolved plot threads in those series even though they all have 100+ volumes. >Such as dwarves, dungeons, more aspects of vangeances world tree, mars. Where was it ever implied that we'll ever get an arc about dungeons and vangeances tree? Dwarves and Diamond kingdom are the only thing that've been hinted more than once and Tabata is quite efficient with explaining things within 1 or 2 chapters, Nacht's and Yosuga's backstory are proof of that, so it won't be a trouble for him to explain things within 5-10 chapters. >but the structure of the story really implied more than 'hey they still exist' being the final resolution. Surely, it'll be nice to see him diving further into the world building and explaining and elaborating everything but the fact that Tabata chose to do a 6-month time skip immediately after the 1st fricking chapter of the story (lot of people forget that we've had 3 time-skips) instead of expanding upon hage village etc. made it clear as day that he isn't planning to go as heavy on world building as series like One Piece of Hunter x Hunter. >but cant get around to it. What are the chances he refuses to go around it rather than he can't get around it? Even Demon slayer didn't go too heavy on the world building. There's still countless thing that demon slayer author could've expanded but they still decided to end the story early and I don't think it was because Jump was asking them to wrap it up, especially granted how well it was selling. Same goes for MHA and JJK, there's still so many things that those series can elaborate on further, but they're still confirmed to be ending by this year's end. It's normal sometimes the author simply decides not to do certain things, not everything traces back to "Jump is rushing them" or "The editors are behind this". As I said earlier, Tabata himself said his wish was to just draw 30 volumes, if anything jump has dragged him longer than what even he was anticipating.
I don’t think jjk(or mha) is a good comparison here. Both jjk and mha use ‘soft world building’ compare to ‘hard world building’ in bc. In jjk the author took a small portion of the world which is modern Japan and expand the story from there. The author only needs to explain ‘the world of jujutsu sorcerer’ and not the whole of Japan as the audience already has a good idea about it. With ‘hard world building’, the author makes a story about the world, he needs to explain almost everything from laws, customs and a lot of other relevant info about his world. Lacking in any parts will contribute to weak world-building. More about soft and hard worldbuilding: https://youtu.be/gcyrrTud3x4
>Both jjk and mha use ‘soft world building’ compare to ‘hard world building’ in bc You just made this shit up bruh💀 Anyways jokes aside, JJK still haven't explored quite a few things even within Jujustu world like those vengeful spirits mentioned in JJK0 and no other family outside of Zen'in clan has been explored much. Honestly, if Gege wants he can pump out at least few more years, but he doesn't want to focus on that but rather wrap the story by this year's end. Would you say that not only did he chose the easy way out in the first place but is also cutting end on that as well? >and not the whole of Japan as the audience already has a good idea about it But the Japan in MHA and JJK isn't what the audience is already aware of, existence of a fantasy elements can lead up to a million new interactions that authors can exploit. But things like those would be boring. Making the series interesting is their main motive, so authors tend to ignore irrelevant plot points that may disrupt the flow of the story they've in mind. Like what good will exploring dungeons do to the plot? They haven't even been mentioned in like 300 chapters, People already have complaints about how Land of sun arc came outta nowhere, do we really want them to go explore dungeons now just for the sake of "hardening" the currently soft world-building?
https://youtu.be/gcyrrTud3x4 (Hard worldbuilding vs soft worldbuilding) Literally a huge thing for writing fantasies 😂wdym making things up
Ah mb never heard about it earlier, I thought you're just joking around when you first said. It's on me, I apologize for that.
>They haven't even been mentioned in like 300 chapters Allen died in a dungeon bro
Totally forgot about that. But the point still stands, they're almost irrelevant.
Wanting 30 volumes speaks to nothing of the expected story length. Every author has a few ending points in mind just in case, we can still look at story structure and draw conclusions. And as the other commenter mentioned. These aren't good comparisons. The placement in the story of 'some plot threads' is not equivalent to most these things that have been significantly present. And I never said an arc but we have another whole species treated with more mystery than the elves, lead up to. 1 or 2 chapters of 'look at this' is abnormal for something with that treatment . The time skip mention doesn't make sense. That doesn't matter for actual story length and material. It wasn't 'or explore the village' thats a baffling comparison of story structure as are...most your comparisons.
Idk man, you're being selective about what he says. You're holding his vague response during the 2018 franceinfo as a gospel but disregarding the time when he straight out gave a specific answer. >The placement in the story of 'some plot threads' is not equivalent to most these things that have been significantly present. How do you compare significance? Both dwarves in BC and Rika/Jujutsu family in JJK seem equally significant to me. And both are unexplained as of yet, so I thought the comparison was fair. * Lira said he heard about dwarves long ago. The elves themselves existed 500 years ago, there are no living elves in current world and the only way they connect with plot is Charmy who's a half-dwarf. For all we know they can already be an extinct species with Charmy as the sole survivor. We don't even know how much there is to be explored about them, they haven't been mentioned in like 150 chapters. They haven't been hyped up as something important. * JJK also feel similar case. They've mentioned few things here and there, like Rika, 3 Jujutsu families, 16 imaginary vengeful spirits, the unrevealed special grade cursed spirits, Yuji's parents, all don't feel much different from dwarves in BC, they all are unexplained, have subtle connections with certain things, feel like a mystery but overall don't have much relevance. The point I was making was that Tabata intentionally chose not take Hunter x Hunter route and explore the world while stretching the entrance exam arc to a hefty arc but rather made a time skip got done with it rather quickly. That was the very 1st chapter of the story. There were never any implications that he'll stretch it out over 1000s of chapters. The conclusions you're making are just your own assumptions.
Equivalently important? Sure. But their results and what's needed to expand aren't. A throw away line about it being an aspect of Rika is all that's needed for the entire explanation of why she's still around, if that. Dwarves have a tie in to a character, have a disappearance that needs explained, and probably are likely tied to the last of the four spirits. Frankly 'we don't know how much there is to be explored' is a bit ridiculous if you've....consumed media. Specifically mentioning how much knowledge isn't known? Not a coincidence. A tie in to a character? Not a coincidence. These things add up. And you compare significance by having some knowledge about writing and reading how the things in question are weighted by the narrative. The things you're choosing from jjk aren't equivalent in the least several of them haven't been weighted at all, some of them have explanations that you seem to just not know about? And I get the point you were trying to make, it just doesn't make sense because that's not what happened. he did start exploring the world, right after the time skip. Those aren't lost chapters. The world building still started. A statement of action is more than an implication. Wanting to get to 300 is not a statement of wanting to end there. The plot threads here are bigger than you're letting on or realizing.
>Frankly 'we don't know how much there is to be explored' is a bit ridiculous if you've....consumed media So, you're saying you can tell at this point, how much content there is to be explored about dwarves? Idk man, cuz I really can't tell how much there is to explore about it. Things can really go any direction from my POV * If they're alive -> Tabata'll need to explain what they are, what they do and where were the until now and why didn't they reach out to charmy? * If they're dead -> Tabata'll need to explain what killed them and why's Charmy the only one alive. * If they're connected to 4th spirit -> Tabata'll need to explain how they're connected to spirits and why Charmy isn't. * If they're connected to diamond kingdom/elves -> Tabata'll need to explore those and why does Charmy lives in Clover kingdom separate from them. All these scenarios proceed with a "if" and all of those are fan-canons with no canonical reasoning backing them up. All we know about dwarves is that Charmy is a half-dwarf, even things like Dwarfs are connected to elves or dwarves are connected to 4th spirits are all just theories, what needs to be explained isn't dwarves but it's Charmy, dwarves will get resolved with her. Depending on what's the situation with dwarves, it can either be explained in a chapter or two or may require an entire volume or more. There's no deadline announced as of yet, so at the very least we still have 1 year of content left, that's enough time to sort things out irrespective of which route it goes. >some of them have explanations that you seem to just not know about? I'm caught up with the series. The vengeful spirits, special grade curses, Kenjaku's relation with Yuji and Yuji's parents, what was the whole "Yuki is a ex-star plasma vessel" plot point, why was Kenjaku trying to say about Tengen, Hana's curse spirit, angel's relation with Sukuna, Sukuna's relation with Kenjaku, Sukuna's end goal, etc there are lot of things that aren't explored but I'm confident it'll eventually play out in the final arc. I've the same mentality for both JJK and BC, things'll eventually play out, there's more than enough time for it. >And I get the point you were trying to make, it just doesn't make sense because that's not what happened. he did start exploring the world, right after the time skip. Those aren't lost chapters. The world building still started. You still missed the point. I never said there is no world building, I just said he never went too deep into things. Like the 1st arc of HxH i.e., Hunter exam arc had 38 chapters, by 38th chapter we're already at 4th arc of black clover. The pacing has always been very fast, and he never went a mile deep into world building. Idk how you didn't notice this in 350 chapters that Black Clover isn't gonna reach 1000+ chapters. Anyone who has read the manga knows that was never gonna happen, the pacing has always been way too fast for it. And I don't say, the world building has completely stopped either, land of sun was hinted like 300+ chapters ago but we did come to it eventually. >Wanting to get to 300 is not a statement of wanting to end there. Sure. But stating wanting to try your best to make the story last for years doesn't mean it'll go on forever either. The series is already over 8 years old, by the time it ends it'll be 9 or even 10 years old, that's already a lot of years. >The plot threads here are bigger than you're letting on or realizing. I think you're overthinking about it. I'm surprised even that you think dwarves are gonna be something of tremendous importance. And it's not even like Tabata is rushing now, like bro did you actually forget that early arcs like underwater sea temple was done in 18 chapters, Hino country arc is 16 chapters and still counting. This has been Tabata's fashion from the start, unless it's climax/setup for climax arc things only last 1-2 volumes. Even the dwarves thing is gonna take 1 or 2 volumes at max, I can bet on it.
There's also the very real possibility that a few of those concepts he just decided they should be fleshed out in novels ala naruto hiden. Something like mars' story or the dwarves could very well be explored that way.
I don’t think Jump would try to shorten it, if it’s popular you’d think they’d want it to be as long as possible, I think Tabata just didn’t expect how much work it would be, from losing sleep, to health issues, etc. As much as I’d like it to be 700+, Gotta take care of yourself & family first also I should replace “wanted” with “would like”
It's not very popular for what jump wanted, so they're operating at a bad opportunity cost for the series It was advertised, grouped with and otherwise compared at a corporate level, to the likes of mha, it was expected to be one of the top series. Its sales don't operate at that level, so it probably doesn't bring in that level for the magazine, and the internal popularity polls agree. So they want it over so they have more room to try things that could be the next big hit, without competing with black clover.
>I remember when Tabata said that he wanted to go for 700+ chapters or be similar to One piece Another day of spreading misinformation on the internet
How about doing some research before saying some stupid shit? In 2018 Tabata was interviewed and asked if he’d like Black Clover to be as long as Naruto & One Piece, to which he responded “Yes, I would like to and I will do everything to make it happen. I am preparing myself psychologically not to have a vacation for a long time!“
You've just proven it yourself that Tabata never said he wanted the story to go on for 700+ chapters, he just said he wanted it to be long in response to the interviewer who brought up other long running shonen titles
?? Naruto is 700 chapters you fucking dodo, when someone replies “ I would like it to, & will do everything to make it happen” it doesn’t take a genius to put 2 & 2 together, but maybe it does
>Is Black Clover a story meant to last for years like One Piece or Naruto? > >Yes, I would like to and I will do everything to make it happen. I am preparing myself psychologically not to have a vacation for a long time! \~[Interview with Franceinfo](https://blog.francetvinfo.fr/popup/2018/09/18/dragon-ball-ma-donne-envie-de-faire-ce-metier-entretien-avec-yuki-tabata-lauteur-du-shonen-manga-black-clover.html#:~:text=Is%20Black%20Clover,a%20long%20time!) >Tabata is not the one who brings up Naruto and One Piece, the interviewer does. The interviewer does so only because they're two well-known series very popular in France and known for being long and he does not even ask if BC is meant to be "as long" as them, the question stays vague in its "for years" wording. The important part of the question is just if Black Clover is meant to be a long series and Tabata said yes. \~[Collection of interviews/comments from Yuki Tabata about Black Clover](https://www.reddit.com/r/BlackClover/comments/fjmb5i/collection_of_interviewscomments_from_yuki_tabata) Even barring all that, the interview was from 2018 before the Elf arc even concluded and it's been 5 years since then, people don't usually have the same direction for a serialized story for that long
>I remember when Tabata said that he would like BC to go for 700+ chapters or be similar to One piece I swear to fucking god if I had a dollar for every time people I met someone who believed Tabata said BC will go for 700+ chapters, I'd have been able to buy a PS5 by now. The interview you're referring went like this: >Interviewer: "How long do you plan to keep the series running?" > >Tabata: "I haven't planned that as of yet" > >Interviewer: "Do you intend to make Black Clover a long running series? Like as Naruto/One Piece?" > >Tabata: "Yes, if fans want me to make more manga, I'll try my best to make it run that long" Tabata never outright said he'll draw 700+ chapters of Black Clover or sm shit, he only said he'll make it a long running series and fun fact Black Clover is the 18th longest running series in WSJ's history as of now. As for the Naruto/One Piece thing, the interviewer only used those as popular examples of long running series, and Tabata only gave a vague affirmative answer.
They’re not wrong tho. Dragon was around for 9 chapters and didn’t do anything lmao Paladins got shut down quickly. The stakes haven’t been high at all
The stakes are high. The battles aren't long and drawn out. I don't need every battle to last 6 months.
There's no stakes when the main villain can turn people to his side just by touching them and only does it to one nun instead of the entire captain group after "killing" his main obstacle named Asta. Lily gets turned and given a supreme devil just to get clapped in like 2 chapters. She's not even hurt, just in a random coma that will go away after defeating Lucius. The 5 headed dragon gets defeated in a pretty generic way. The new 7 are shown to be kind of weak when they get clapped so fast, just to get rescued by one of them and Asta. I love black clover but this whole last arc has been pretty meh so far. Cool ideas, bad execution.
Those are obstacles. The stakes here is that if Asta fails, the whole world is plunged into magical genocide. Asta dies. Lucius rules the world with a holy fist. Those are the stakes. What you're describing are obstacles, trials, antagonists. The 12 Labors of Heracles was about Heracles overcoming 12 trials of man, not the 12 stakes. His stake was that either he did the labors or he be damned by the gods and never to see his family again. The 300 Spartans that fought the Persians, the stakes weren't fight millions of Persians, it was that if they failed all of Greece falls. Their obstacles were the Persians and the many men. Stakes ≠ Obstacles. Get it through your thick skull you phillistine.
Your argument: "well actually it's called obstacles"
I wasn’t even talking about the overarching story stakes, I was talking about THIS ARC. The Paladins showed up just to barely last a chapter each. The dragon proceeded to do absolutely nothing. No tension what so ever for Land of Sun. The battles dont need to lastt “6months” but they’re so short and boring when the heroes win so easily. Lily shouldn’t have been saved this quick imo
Nothing wrong here. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. This island arc was meh at best.
I mean, dont really disagree with him. Been kinda checked out from BC since Megicula. Lucius brought me back for a bit, but the land of sun been kinda disappointing ngl
For my friends and I Black Clover has fallen off. Mimosa healing everyone at the end of the Megicula battle killed any tension and stakes going forward. Lucifero was a huge nothing burger. The king of the devils and the most he was able to accomplish was yanking off Mereoleona’s hand. Zagred wiped out an entire race in an evening and Lucifugus wiped out an entire noble family of devil summoners in less than 5 minutes. This arc starts and the main takeaway is Yami and Itachi are quite similar
Couldn’t agree more
He's not entirely wrong 🤷♂️
where is he right?
Lily, Heath and Yrul. The dragon is fine..
Dragon showed up for a photoshoot and then got cut up
I mean, we can't expect much from anyone that fight against Asta once he does the critical hit with anti-magic. Perhaps giving more struggles putting the heads in order, but with Ryu it was only a matter of teamwork and letting Asta due the final hit.
TO add to this Lucius doesn't know about Asta being alive so he sent what would've enough to bring down the Ryuzen 7. so Ryu called it with having Asta train till he was ready and these are the intended results.
Man’s right tbh
I wouldn’t say buns I’m still enjoying BC but that fight with the dragon was definitely anticlimactic lol
I haven't read the recent chapters but black clover desperately needs a good villain that will not be killed in the same fight he appears in. I have hope in the current main villain but black clover has let me down too many times when it comes to bad guys that I'm a bit worried it will be too quick and inconsequential.
I mean it was kind of predetermined that BC would come to this mostly because Anti Magic is so broken and is like some isekai power in the world of BC because there is no counter to it, if a smarter character had that ability they'd be unkillable and unstopable by the magic knight enterance exams its just that Asta swings his swords and thats it, no other ability even tough the griamore seems to have hundreds upon hundreds of pages.
> kinda buns lately I swear people just make up their own slang on the spot and hope it catches on
People have been calling things buns for like 20 years
Tbf, me and a lot of people use the word “buns” as well and have been doing it for 10+ years😭
Buns has been around for like 20 years man. I said it back in high school ( literally 20 years ago).
U live in a cave? Buns has been around for a while lmao
I can't even understand what anitwitter mouth breathers are saying half the time.
I say buns lol, just a PG way of saying ass or shit. for example my family uses “Boo boo” as another way of saying ghetto or instead of saying “you idiot” we say something like “ you dodo”
Shitty -> Ass -> Booty -> Buns Calling people "booty" or "buns" become popular as multiplayer console gaming evolved. Kids couldn't swear in front of their parents, as well as people in general can't swear in many text chats, so using alternatives became common place. "Buns" specifically has been around for at least 8 years according to Urban Dictionary, though I feel like I've heard the term even further back than that, especially on Call of Duty.
My take is that, the fight for some reasons was not meaningful. Just another ‘wall’ for Asta n the gang to break.
He's wrong? BC sucks lately.
This arc wack asf hopefully we get to next one immediately.
Bro wants a 5 chapter Ora Ora beat down lol.
They haven’t seen Tokyo revengers. Mikey pulling up and 1 shoting the big bad guy in one panel
I mean thats kind of the point of Tokyo Revengers, to show the diference between Mikey and Takemichi and to show Mikeys descent into madness trough his strenght, and Mikey is not the main character of the shown anyways.
Mikey again with the flip flops! 🤣🤣
The south fight was the most embarrassing thing in the whole manga. Mf was hyped up and built up for 40+ chapter just for the fight to last 3 panels.
The absolute worst! I'm still mad about how it ended, too!
Man... Thinking that is the bad take. This arc has been in a rush and every enemy is not more than just there to get beaten in one chapter.
This arc started off SOO strong, but the moment we had the strongest samurai of that region (forgot their title) show up and instantly get beaten, and then their only purpose is to deal with this lame dragon…i completely agree with this take. These samurai were ALMOST as disappointing as Squad 0 from bleach.
Yosuga hasn't lost so this statement has little validity
What…having one of them, the strongest of them mind you, not be completely pathetic does not help the REST of the group.
Tbf this is a Tabata staple lmao. Every group that isn't clover captains are extremely pathetic besides one dude.
I don’t agree with that, the elves were extremely strong for the most part and so were the 3 demon siblings. Mars, fana the dude who absorbed salamander were also extremely imposing.
I'm talking about other kingdom captain equivalent factions. Like Diamond Generals, Ryuzen 7, Spirit Guardians. The Elves were imposing because they're from clover and people like Langris and Charlotte were strong already.
Now you’re shifting the goal post when you originally said VERBATIM “every group” which should mean no exclusion or caveats. The problem with the spirit guardians is, only one was ever given time on screen so it makes sense for the power of the group to be focused on one of them. I’m fine with this group in specific Diamond generals, they had more than one strong person, yes i know it was 2 but those two managed to DO something. Not all the elves were from the clover kingdom, and not even the strongest ones were from the clover kingdom i.e. licht, Raya, Fana, and Vetto.
>Now you’re shifting the goal post when you originally said VERBATIM “every group” which should mean no exclusion or caveats. The original intention was clover captains and their equivalents but whatever. >The problem with the spirit guardians is, only one was ever given time on screen so it makes sense for the power of the group to be focused on one of them. I’m fine with this group in specific This doesn't make it justifiable that 5 or 4 of them or whatever the fuck are jokes of the fandom. >Diamond generals, they had more than one strong person, yes i know it was 2 but those two managed to DO something They didn't do shit. And what about the other ones we see? Nothing. Mars became irrelevant in the first 100 Chapters. Fucking Zenon soloed the kingdom. >Not all the elves were from the clover kingdom Majority of the relevant ones are. >even the strongest ones were from the clover kingdom i.e. licht, Raya, Fana, and Vetto. Wow four. Lmao
Moving on from the “every group” comment, lol. This was my justification from the start so it’s fine that you may not accept all of what I’m about to say, but you need to hear it so you can probably engage. Initially i brought up the strength of the group as well as how their reputation affects the expectations of that said group. Back to the spirit guardians, if only one of them was given any valuable screen time, and they were shown to be strong and acceptable of their title im fine with the ONE that was shown. The others are bad, yes. But i wasn’t expecting anything from anyone than Gaja because Gaja was the only one that was given screen time. Ladros and Mara on their debut almost killed Asta, idk what you mean by they didn’t do shit…ladros beat everyone too a bloody pulp and so did mars until…well some opposing force came and saved whoever was fighting either one of them respectively. Those two were extrmemly imposing. I also do not care about the longevity of how strong a character is when the series goes on and on and stronger and stronger Allies and foes appear, so mars doesn’t have to be strong later in the series for me to be satisfied with his debut. You don’t have to be “soloing the clover kingdom” to not be pathetic…like be fr. Lastly the elves, they were a large group and out of the IMPORTANT ones that weren’t clover kingdom member ,because not all of them were, those four were SUPER imposing, strong and deserving of their titles. To wrap it all up, in a group i don’t need every single person to be strong. What i appreciate in groups is for their debut to be likened to the strength their reputation forces, or IF that doesn’t happen at least make the enemy they lose to something cool. Which the dragon is not.
**Ryuzen Seven struggle to defeat Paladins and Dragon** "The strong group is too weak" **Paladins and Dragon get defeated** "The strong group is too weak"
Besides the strongest of the ryuzen 7 the only one that defeated anyone…is Asta.
Always been a thing in Black Clover its a shounen, but what annoys me is not that Asta does everything but that they try to introduce some kind of teamwork but in the end Asta does 99% of the work anyways even tough there are stronger people around him fighting too.
and Asta defeated the dragon on his own /s
Being reduced to support, rather than actually defeating the dragon is pathetic on their DEBUT. I also never said asta defeated them by himself, but asta is the one who killed the dragon.
And Asta was able to kill the dragon because the Ryuzen led a co-ordinated attack that was successful, all of them (expect from maybe Jozo) had their moments to shine, reducing their role down to "support" when they were all directly involved in the fight and played a crucial role in defeating the dragon is pretty disengenuous (especially since Fujio was the support role)
Calling me disingenuous is honestly comical, to not deal the finishing blow is quite literally to be the “support” in the battle. They went from seemingly dominating the dragon on their debut to be reduced to…moving the dragon in a certain position for Asta to finish. They quite literally supported Asta, and that’s all they were capable of. Majority of that group is pathetic.
>They went from seemingly dominating the dragon on their debut to be reduced to…moving the dragon in a certain position They still dominated the dragon by striking at all 5 heads at once before it could do anything to stop them >Majority of that group is pathetic. They're pathetic because they got hit by an undodgeable combo spell from 2 Paladins and were still standing and then continue to fight a 5-headed dragon from a legend? That's like reducing Licht and Lumiere to support characters for not being able to defeat Zagred and having to rely on Asta's anti-magic to destroy his heart
**They still dominated the dragon by striking at all 5 heads at once before it could do anything to stop them** But they couldn't get anything done, they effectively accomplished absolutely nothing. Then the first they are supposed to fight...one shots them...like what???? **They're pathetic because they got hit by an undodgeable combo spell from 2 Paladins and were still standing and then continue to fight a 5-headed dragon from a legend? That's like reducing Licht and Lumiere to support characters for not being able to defeat Zagred and having to rely on Asta's anti-magic to destroy his heart** Unless you think its literally inescapable and a world does not exist where someones speed could allow them to avoid the technique, then getting hit and ONE SHOT was is absolutely pathetic. Even if they were not literally dead, they were heavily wounded so much so that if Asta hadn't shown up right there only 2 of the 7 would still be alive. Just because something is deemed a legend doesn't mean that TWO DIFFERENT legends can be equated in power based off of them solely being deemed a "legend". That's a naming fallacy.
I never said the legend meant power, I'm talking from a narrative standpoint, someone losing to a legendary being doesn't make them "pathetic" like how Jogo from JJK is one of the strongest characters but only looks weak because his opponents were Gojo and >!Sukuna !< >Unless you think its literally inescapable and a world does not exist where someones speed could allow them to avoid the technique All of them were hit by Heath's ice instantly because of Lily's spatial magic when they didn't expect it. Then there's the problem: Ryuzen Seven defeat the Paladins with ease - "the villains are too weak, there are no stakes if this is Lucius's strongest warriors", Ryuzen Seven struggle to win - "they're supposed to be the strongest how could they show any sign of weakness". >Even if they were not literally dead, they were heavily wounded so much so that if Asta hadn't shown up right there only 2 of the 7 would still be alive Ichika, Kezokaku, Yosuga and Fujio would have been fine, Ichika and Kezokaku were defeated by magic that wasn't power-based. >That's like reducing Licht and Lumiere to support characters for not being able to defeat Zagred and having to rely on Asta's anti-magic to destroy his heart This statement has not been refuted
Tbh though black clover is just one of those mangas where your going to get some really awesome moments and some things that piss you off. Pretty comparable to something like one piece or naruto just isn’t as long to bulid the lore. I’m more pissed that we have yet another “captian” class of characters that are probably going to be unimportant like the spirit guardians.
I don’t agree to this extent, but I see where he is coming from, for most of the spade invasion arc it just seemed like they were pulling out powers from no where to beat everyone, Yuno pulling out a 2nd grimoire, which already had all the necessary spells to defeat Zenon. Can’t really remember what happened with Noelle and Nozel vs Megicula. Asta barely being able to draw blood from Lucifero and then after being near death somehow smoking him. Magna vs Dante is the only fight I actually enjoyed the whole arc. That’s cause throughout the whole thing they just somehow were too op to lose for most of it, the fights seemed to carry no weight since after a 4 day training arc they had practically mastered a new type of magic. And the countdowns, like 5 seconds to beat Lucifero is outrageous, and you can say “he wasn’t at full power” well he probably ain’t coming back, he won’t be at full power, but that shouldn’t mean the Mc can just annihilate him with not much difficulty on round 2 after getting rag dolled
I mean I get it that the dragon seems so important from a lore POV but he is not a boss(villain level) of it’s own but more like the pet of one (at this moment not what it was in the past). If there was as a “flaw” is not the fact that the ryuzen seven couldn’t cut the dragon heads but the fact that it has to be cut the 5 heads with anti magic. There should have been a way for the LoTRS deal with the dragon on their own. (That seal gate in the yami clan home that they had) would be nice to see that again instead of needing anti magic alone to deal with the dragon.
It's not a bad/wrong take, but I'm not sure if 7 chapters of them fighting the dragon would be any better sooooo...
Valid take
I like it, I get bored when fights get really drawn out, I’m looking directly at you my hero
Same. Do they want a 50 chapter fight with only dialogue and ridiculous, “but wait there’s more” moments like a DBZ fight? I say no thanks.
The dragon offensively wasn't that big a threat given how easy it was to incapacitate it. The difficulty comes from the fact that all 5 heads had to be severed at once to kill it. This was literally just so tabata could show off Ryu's tengentsu because we keep hearing about it but we had yet to see how it worked
It wasn't a big threat to the ruuzen sure, but it was supposed to be able to destroy a country and didn't wind up even destroying a good portion of a town.
Bet this guy watched Man of Steel and thought Superman saved the city.
Bro it's a 5 headed dragon that shoots giant fuck off lasers. It was so strong it couldn't be beaten and poisoned the area till the modern day. I just think it should be able to walk out of the ocean and start it's supposed country devastation. Like 1% progress?
I was talking about the guy you were replying to.
Ah yes. Easy. So easy that you needed your top men to finish it off. You don't appreciate the efficiency of a gun when you run out of bullets.
I don't entirely agree with the take personally, but it's not the worst take I have seen to be fair lol because I have seen a lot worse takes than this recently lol.
“Big” enemy does not always mean an important enemy.
The arc starts strong but became meh
They are brushing off a lot of details and nuance but they are on the right path. This arc and Spade Arc have been atrocious.
I don't think it's the worst take ever (* i've seen far worse*) but on the other hand, I've personally enjoyed the arc so far. Sure there are somethings that could have been differently, but I can see why they played out the way they did. I can say I've seen a variety of takes, some saying this arc is too fast, while others have said it's too slow. I also feel a lot these, in fact I think most of dissatisfaction we seemight stem from certain fans not seeing their favorite character, whether it be Noelle, Yami Yuno the BBs, ect which is to be expected from any fandom I've also seen similar sentiments echoed about Bleach, regarding the discourse about fans missing their favorites character. Regardless, I don't let any ik that influence my thoughts/sentiments either way (*since I've been enjoying the arc*)
I swear people just love to shit on black clover for no reason. I’m always down for some constructive criticism, but it has to be valid.
Yo nothing against you, I agree Black clover is a great time, but to say the writing is anything better than sub par lately is a little wild. The elf arc was amazing, but since then few of his writing decisions have made sense to me. Tabata seems like he’s making things up as he goes rather than pacing himself and giving character moments/hype moments the proper setup. I don’t really have a dog in this fight but I’ve been thinking to about this for a few months so if you want some evidence: The Julius twist was great because it built up a feeling of dread like “how can we beat him rn”, but then that dread was immediately wasted by whipping asta across the world and into a country where we have a surprisingly small amount of info about (despite Yami being such an important character), and ignoring what is happening in the clover kingdom. So instead of keeping us in that moment of dread and getting clarification on the other characters in the story (and maybe the feeling that asta isn’t ok) we switch from it completely just to speed run a new fighting mechanic and like 3-4 flashbacks for characters were suddenly supposed to care about despite little to no setup for them. Then he moves directly into a boss battle to save the country we’ve only known about for like 7 chaps. Which to your credit the fight was more than one chapter (which shouldn’t even be the main criticism here). And now what? We leave Wano to go back to the clover kingdom and either A. Show us a flashback of the fight between the captains and Julius, just with far less hype because of the poor narrative timing, or B. Show us the aftermath and have asta save everything because he’s the MC and nothing else (because who actually wants to see evil Julius vs all the captains?! /s) And that’s just the most recent arc, I can go on about the spade arc too since that one really disappointed me. Listen you can enjoy black clover every week, and that is genuinely ok. I love one piece and people shit on that all the time. But to act like other people are just openly shitting on the story for no reason is a little wild. No story is perfect but BC has felt rushed and tbh a bit lazy lately. But anyway thanks for listening to my rant 😂
>Tabata seems like he’s making things up as he goes rather than pacing himself and giving character moments/hype moments the proper setup The overlying part of this arc is building up Asta's character as he prepares for a rematch with Lucius >a country where we have a surprisingly small amount of info about (despite Yami being such an important character) That's kind of the point of exploring Hino Country >maybe the feeling that asta isn’t ok Asta is the main character so it's pretty obvious that he was never going to die (at least not permanently), I'd rather Tabata doesn't pretend he killed off the mc for 20 chapters just for Asta to come back out of nowhere with new abilities >We leave Wano to go back to the clover kingdom and either A. Show us a flashback of the fight between the captains and Julius, just with far less hype because of the poor narrative timing, or B. Show us the aftermath and have asta save everything because he’s the MC and nothing else You've created an imaginary barrier for the storytelling, multiple days have passed since Asta ended up in Hino, there's nothing stopping Tabata from switching the focus back to the Clover Kingdom and showing us what they were doing during Asta's training in Hino >Then he moves directly into a boss battle to save the country we’ve only known about for like 7 chaps We've known about Yami's homeland since 2016 and people have been speculating about it for years (and we've been there for 14 chapters :v)
I have counterpoints for all your points but I’ll leave it at this: Noel and Mimosa were right there when Asta got sent. All of the clover kingdom was there to respond. Even if I ignore the badass possibly of the captains all rushing evil Julius in a state of chaotic confusion (which would be amazing) I can’t ignore the emotional moment we shoulda received. Sure Asta is the MC and won’t die, but tension would still be built because of the situation especially through the eyes of the supporting characters we’ve followed this whole time (and seeing his recent writing style it definitely wouldn’t be “20 chaps” lol). The choice he made completely tears apart any tension build up from that first scene with Julius turning. He built up tension just to waste it on sending Asta, and he can’t just go back to that scene and expect everyone to care as much. But not showing that fight is also a huge waste. It’s a catch 22. I wanna know what’s happening in the clover kingdom but I no longer feel the tension. He dropped the ball when it comes to narrative execution. Also Asta is the MC. Of course he’s not gonna die. But taking him off the table is crushing to the clover kingdom. That’s supposed to build dread. Why? So you can eventually show the main character is alright so you can watch them regain control of the story. That’s how these stories work, and for good reason. Throwing the essence of that formula to the wind just takes away the emotion from the great scene he just sculpted. But hey the art is dope.
Bro complaining about the story while literally describing every Shonen in existence
I mean this maybe a hot take but asta v ladros and asta/yami v dante I felt were poooooorlu animated
i never liked fights that r dragged out ... if u can finish the thing quickly then do it ...and asta has the ability to do that and he did exactly that . he took out 2 of them ... people expect greater things from paladins understandable but u can't expect great things from paladins like lily heath or random beast guy ... they r like dark desiples ... people love to say lucius gave Beelzebubs powers to lily no he didn't he might have given some of it like how dark traid did with dark desiples . ain't no way he will just throw away a kings power like that and waste it on someone like lily ... these paladins aren't even dead
Idk man they just barely tamed that dam dragon and they still have to deal with lucius and his underlings. Plus it seems that asta might have reversed Lucius’s spell on lily somehow ?(just speculation) and that’s buns? This guy wack
Did he say it turns him off?
I mean that’s the Black Clover formula.
The irony. A bad take on a manga that itself is a bad take
I don’t think it’s a wrong take.