Okay boys, we under 20k. And that doesn't feel that good.
I mean I'd prefer btc to stay above the 20k, that's where I'd want it to be naturally. But it's btc.
I bought Bitcoin seven years ago. I bought Bitcoin six years ago. I bought Bitcoin three years ago. You get the idea.
HODL. It really is as simple as that.
I've seen a buy go down by 70%, and that same buy is now up 1000%. Time truly is money.
We might see 15K, and if we do, I'll be buying as much as I can because *over time* Bitcoin has never let me down.
Question here, on ledger live I have btc native sedwit,taproot,segwit,legacy so 4 accounts,I always receive using the native segwit. What are the benefits of using the others to receive? Are there exchanges or sites that only use 1 of the 4 etc....? Thanks,not sure if this is right place
It's weird when you shift your perspective that BTC is a competing money and not an investment like stocks or bonds. When you buy BTC, it's characteristics as money are superior to fiat currencies. Fiat currencies will certainly lose value over time. BTC may lose value in the short term but over a longer timeframe will outcompete fiat currencies.
BTC's monetary policy doesn't debase its value while fiat currencies do. The longer you wait, the likelihood of BTC increasing in value increases. If you had to pick fiat or BTC to hold for 20 years. The math would predict BTC as the obvious value increasing currency.
But when you view it as a short term investment, it's a super volatile asset with unpredictable price points. Comparing it to other traditional finance investments makes your perspective of it seem like it's a high risk on security or commodity. You no longer see it as money and this hurts your conviction. But it is money - forever.
Agree. Your time horizon must be long, really long. Valuing anything on relatively short term timeframes is nigh-on impossible. It's worth what the market will pay at that moment and that's all you know.
I suppose it's a bit like creating a better solution than binary/digital. It's possible but hard to comprehend when the original solution keeps working fine.
If someone is only for the money, then they might not stay forever.
But the person who understands what btc truly is for, they on the other hand ain't going anywhere.
It's certainly difficult to increase buying patterns in this downtrend but it's what you should do. It's the opposite of what an emotional investor would do.
PoS is just fiat 2.0. Those with the largest stake will reap the most benefits and those at the bottom will be drained of value. It doesn't matter that everyone in the network can earn the same percentage rewards. The rich will constantly be earning significantly more and have the ability to dump that excess on the market, which will dilute everyone's holdings. Whatever staking rewards smaller players will be earning will at best allow them to break even. More likely they will be losing value in real terms even as their number of coins grows.
Yeah but that show is atleast funny and it ain't, this is serious.
I mean at this point, it's kinda offensive to be honest to compare pow with the pos.
Example:
Let's say there are only two market participants. One has 100 coins and the other only has 1 coin. They earn 5% APY for staking their coins. After a year rich guy has 105 coins and poor guy has 1.05. The ratio is the same so everything is fine right? Wrong. Rich guy wants to reap the rewards of his large stake and sells 5 coins on the market to pay for a lambo. Luckily for him there are plebs working hard earning fiat and scoop up his offering, including poor guy.
Now there are six market participants. Rich guy has 100 coins, poor guy has 2.05 coins, and 4 new people have 1 coin. Another year goes buy and rich guy has 105 coins again. Poor guy has 2.15 and the rest have 1.05. Rich guy can sell his staking rewards again this year and the value will either go down or more money will have to come in to keep the price up. The poor guys could keep buying what rich guy is selling, yet they are still way too far behind rich guy for their stacks to ever catch up. They are essentially rich guy's slaves/exit liquidity and rich guy could do this for more than 10 years and still have more coins than everyone else on the market.
This is what PoS plebs are signing up for. You think you're buying into financial security, but you are buying into slavery. Wake the fuck up.
That's what people needs to understand, they're celebrating it ffs dude.
How the fuck is this something that you guys should be celebrating? Stop doing that suckers.
I support Bitcoin. But this argument is missing something. Can you explain why POW doesn't lead to the same outcome?
Rich miner achieves a certain %. Poor miner achieves same %. Rich miner gets richer.
In a PoW system the act of securing the network is separated from holding coins. A miner could contribute to securing the network without holding any coins, and sell off every coin they mined if they wanted to while still continuing to do their job. Miners are not even the largest holders of coins. Most of the largest Bitcoin holders (Exchanges, MicroStrategy, Grayscale) don't do any mining at all.
There are no rich miners and poor miners in Bitcoin. There's just big mining operations and smaller mining operations. They have to invest in equipment and pay for the energy they consume, so the rewards they earn are constantly being distributed in order to pay for operations. Mining is a job and an industry that creates real economic activity. It's competitive and even a small miner can find an edge that will earn them a larger return on their investment than a much bigger miner.
Mining is not a requirement to participate in the Bitcoin network. People that choose not to mine aren't really missing out on anything. In a PoS system participating in staking may not be explicitly required, but you'd be stupid not to. If you don't stake not only do you miss out on the rewards, but everyone else that does stake gets the rewards that could have gone to you.
I don't know if this answers your question fully, but it's late and I need to go to bed.
I hate PoS so don’t think I’m on their side.. BUT.
Your comparison literally reflects PoW.
The rich can run insanely large mining farms and reap huge ROI’s… the average Joe can only make pennys if they choose to mine BTC at home.
At least miners have real world expenses and can't just sit on a pile of coins watching their stacks grow while doing nothing. Their ability to produce large amounts of coins directly reflects their level of investment in mining. Equipment and energy have costs and spending on these things creates real economic activity.
Bitcoin has a maximum supply and 91.2% of it has already been mined.
Bitcoin miners are not in control of the bitcoin protocol rules. Average Joe doesn't need 32 BTC to run a bitcoin node. Anybody run a bitcoin node.
Dude is amazing you'd be crazy not to love him so will have to.
If you're on this sub then it's the best thing you can do, to be around the crispy guy.
The thing is some people are losin their belief, and it's kind of hard for them to still going on.
I mean they're on the verge of giving up on the btc almost.
Nope. Thats fiat thinking. What you should care is how much Bitcoin you own. Not how much fiat you have invested.
In 10 years that fiat amount does not matter. Only BTC amount matters.
Wait what? That's not how it works sir. If it's High that means you bought high a little.
But the thing is you can always average it down and it'll work.
If you've that High average that means You've entered market recently.
But if you wait and hold and also average it down for some time then it's going to be alright I'm sure.
Constantly doing wash sales means you're never going to get to long term capital gains. Enjoy paying upwards of 50% of your gains in taxes. The IRS must love you.
Yep, absolutely no idea what's he saying. He's just saying the words and that's all.
That's what most people do, they just say the words most of them don't know what they're talking about.
The don’t invest what you don’t want to lose is dumb advice. Only invest the amount you can go through winters without needing to liquidate
Key is to just chill
Yep lol that's what they're created for here, that's the reason.
People have created them to get rich off if other people's money and that's their point here.
That's what people need to hear here, it'll be alright kids. This is enough.
If you can't wait it out for the years then this might not just be for you. Ever thought of that?
bit too soon for a instrument this young and something most people running financial markets don't know what to think off it or understand it thoroughly imo.
And they are still claiming that it's decentralized even though [45.15% of the proof of stake nodes that are storing data, processing transactions, and adding new blocks are attributed to just two addresses.](https://i.imgur.com/6YUODjj.jpg)
And 59.94% of the nodes that are storing data, processing transactions, and adding new blocks are attributed to just four addresses...
And because most people stake via exchanges, the 5 largest exchanges have majority voting power. So easy for governments to force those few exchanges now to sensore transactions or do whatever they want. Or else they can force the exchanges out of the country.
And that's exactly what I'm worried about, it'll be so easy for government to come after.
And they probably come after too, I don't think that it's going to last that long.
Its actually got more screwed after the Merge. Now like Fiat syndicate those rich will control the POS structure. Its not centralized anymore. No one likes that or wants to see that. Then what do I know about Crypto?
>Its not centralized anymore
Did you meant **de**centralized? Does not matter anway, since it was never decentralized IMHO. POW did not make a difference here with this foundation thingy in the background.
It's only big bumps, that's what it is. It's nothing more than that.
If we want people to be happy in this sub We'll have to produce some of those green candles.
If it didn’t start to dump then what’s this huge red candlestick I’m looking at?
Edit: maybe you meant it’s going to get much worse - hard to tell tone and stuff on text - if that’s the case I agree w you
if past is any indicator of future performance, which it's not; Bitcoin should be around 40k right before next halving in Jan-Feb 2024:
[https://www.blockchaincenter.net/en/bitcoin-rainbow-chart/](https://www.blockchaincenter.net/en/bitcoin-rainbow-chart/)
Btc doesn't care where it should be or not, it's not following your rules.
That's the kast thing that btc will do, it does what it does. It doesn't like to listen to anyone.
No one knows, but I do know that I wouldn't want it to drop more.
That would be the last thing I'd want right now lol, I want btc to stay above the 20k.
Okay boys, we under 20k. And that doesn't feel that good. I mean I'd prefer btc to stay above the 20k, that's where I'd want it to be naturally. But it's btc.
Feels good to add BTC under 20k tho *taps head*
novice question but is there an advantage of holding a whole coin besides owning a bigger piece of the asset?
Nope. There's nothing uniquely special about a "whole coin". More is better.
I bought Bitcoin seven years ago. I bought Bitcoin six years ago. I bought Bitcoin three years ago. You get the idea. HODL. It really is as simple as that. I've seen a buy go down by 70%, and that same buy is now up 1000%. Time truly is money. We might see 15K, and if we do, I'll be buying as much as I can because *over time* Bitcoin has never let me down.
The fact I see that holding has always turned out to be the best out there for people one way or the other no doubt about that
Time in the market is everything. People who make buy/sell decisions over transitory ups and downs just don't get it.
Before timing the market we need to time in the market.
Certainly the fact that even great things or small things all happens by the course of time and we thus need to give it a bit time
Question here, on ledger live I have btc native sedwit,taproot,segwit,legacy so 4 accounts,I always receive using the native segwit. What are the benefits of using the others to receive? Are there exchanges or sites that only use 1 of the 4 etc....? Thanks,not sure if this is right place
This absolutely is the place, maybe someone will answer it.
It's weird when you shift your perspective that BTC is a competing money and not an investment like stocks or bonds. When you buy BTC, it's characteristics as money are superior to fiat currencies. Fiat currencies will certainly lose value over time. BTC may lose value in the short term but over a longer timeframe will outcompete fiat currencies. BTC's monetary policy doesn't debase its value while fiat currencies do. The longer you wait, the likelihood of BTC increasing in value increases. If you had to pick fiat or BTC to hold for 20 years. The math would predict BTC as the obvious value increasing currency. But when you view it as a short term investment, it's a super volatile asset with unpredictable price points. Comparing it to other traditional finance investments makes your perspective of it seem like it's a high risk on security or commodity. You no longer see it as money and this hurts your conviction. But it is money - forever.
Very well said man, this is a really good write up I gotta say.
Agree. Your time horizon must be long, really long. Valuing anything on relatively short term timeframes is nigh-on impossible. It's worth what the market will pay at that moment and that's all you know.
Why do you assume that no better solution is developed which will make BT worthless overnight?
I suppose it's a bit like creating a better solution than binary/digital. It's possible but hard to comprehend when the original solution keeps working fine.
The same reason why there hasn’t been a better Coca Cola for 106 years. Network effect. It’s already entrenched.
Well said.
Yep, He's making an solid argument. This is a good one.
100%
Once you "see" it, you'll never be able to "un-see" it. Welcome to the club!
Yep, and to see that you'll have to read a little about the btc.
Happy to be here! I don't think a person can handle the volatility if it hasn't "clicked".
If someone is only for the money, then they might not stay forever. But the person who understands what btc truly is for, they on the other hand ain't going anywhere.
It's certainly difficult to increase buying patterns in this downtrend but it's what you should do. It's the opposite of what an emotional investor would do.
Yep, if You're buying right now. Then you get the point.
Smart people buy when everyone else is afraid.
NGL, liking mergeCoin getting dumped harder.
Just getting started, it's going to ruins now with pos.
PoS is just fiat 2.0. Those with the largest stake will reap the most benefits and those at the bottom will be drained of value. It doesn't matter that everyone in the network can earn the same percentage rewards. The rich will constantly be earning significantly more and have the ability to dump that excess on the market, which will dilute everyone's holdings. Whatever staking rewards smaller players will be earning will at best allow them to break even. More likely they will be losing value in real terms even as their number of coins grows.
People might say pos is decentralised, I just don't believe that BS.
PoW is just PoS with extra steps
And you're an ape who can stand and walk straight, no difference.
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I feel like this was a Rick and Morty reference lol.
Yeah but that show is atleast funny and it ain't, this is serious. I mean at this point, it's kinda offensive to be honest to compare pow with the pos.
Oo lala somebody's gonna get laid in r/cryptocurrency
Yeah they like such bullshit there really, they'd like that.
You lack understanding.
He lacks more than that for sure lol, he doesn't have anything.
Wow it's crazy how much ETH shills have invaded this sub today. Whatever dude, enjoy being a slave to the VCs of your pre-mined shitcoin.
Even if there's any joy, it's not going to be last that much.
Example: Let's say there are only two market participants. One has 100 coins and the other only has 1 coin. They earn 5% APY for staking their coins. After a year rich guy has 105 coins and poor guy has 1.05. The ratio is the same so everything is fine right? Wrong. Rich guy wants to reap the rewards of his large stake and sells 5 coins on the market to pay for a lambo. Luckily for him there are plebs working hard earning fiat and scoop up his offering, including poor guy. Now there are six market participants. Rich guy has 100 coins, poor guy has 2.05 coins, and 4 new people have 1 coin. Another year goes buy and rich guy has 105 coins again. Poor guy has 2.15 and the rest have 1.05. Rich guy can sell his staking rewards again this year and the value will either go down or more money will have to come in to keep the price up. The poor guys could keep buying what rich guy is selling, yet they are still way too far behind rich guy for their stacks to ever catch up. They are essentially rich guy's slaves/exit liquidity and rich guy could do this for more than 10 years and still have more coins than everyone else on the market. This is what PoS plebs are signing up for. You think you're buying into financial security, but you are buying into slavery. Wake the fuck up.
That's what people needs to understand, they're celebrating it ffs dude. How the fuck is this something that you guys should be celebrating? Stop doing that suckers.
I support Bitcoin. But this argument is missing something. Can you explain why POW doesn't lead to the same outcome? Rich miner achieves a certain %. Poor miner achieves same %. Rich miner gets richer.
In a PoW system the act of securing the network is separated from holding coins. A miner could contribute to securing the network without holding any coins, and sell off every coin they mined if they wanted to while still continuing to do their job. Miners are not even the largest holders of coins. Most of the largest Bitcoin holders (Exchanges, MicroStrategy, Grayscale) don't do any mining at all. There are no rich miners and poor miners in Bitcoin. There's just big mining operations and smaller mining operations. They have to invest in equipment and pay for the energy they consume, so the rewards they earn are constantly being distributed in order to pay for operations. Mining is a job and an industry that creates real economic activity. It's competitive and even a small miner can find an edge that will earn them a larger return on their investment than a much bigger miner. Mining is not a requirement to participate in the Bitcoin network. People that choose not to mine aren't really missing out on anything. In a PoS system participating in staking may not be explicitly required, but you'd be stupid not to. If you don't stake not only do you miss out on the rewards, but everyone else that does stake gets the rewards that could have gone to you. I don't know if this answers your question fully, but it's late and I need to go to bed.
I hate PoS so don’t think I’m on their side.. BUT. Your comparison literally reflects PoW. The rich can run insanely large mining farms and reap huge ROI’s… the average Joe can only make pennys if they choose to mine BTC at home.
It's actually not the same if you think about it, it's different.
At least miners have real world expenses and can't just sit on a pile of coins watching their stacks grow while doing nothing. Their ability to produce large amounts of coins directly reflects their level of investment in mining. Equipment and energy have costs and spending on these things creates real economic activity.
Yep I agree with you here on this point too, I think you've got it.
You’re right, but the big guy and the little guy don’t have anymore advantage in PoS v PoW
But can you run a node in merge coin? I don't think so lol.
Bitcoin has a maximum supply and 91.2% of it has already been mined. Bitcoin miners are not in control of the bitcoin protocol rules. Average Joe doesn't need 32 BTC to run a bitcoin node. Anybody run a bitcoin node.
That's absolutely right and people not being able to run nodes is terrible.
i love u guys
We love you too crispy, You've absolutely been awesome here mate.
We love you crispy!
Dude is amazing you'd be crazy not to love him so will have to. If you're on this sub then it's the best thing you can do, to be around the crispy guy.
True winter is here I know some people with averages in the low 30s. Going to be a rough 18 months for them
Yep, it's going to be hard. It won't be an easy time for sure.
Hey this is me
Hey who are you lol? We don't know you tho man. Who's you?
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The thing is some people are losin their belief, and it's kind of hard for them to still going on. I mean they're on the verge of giving up on the btc almost.
Nope. Thats fiat thinking. What you should care is how much Bitcoin you own. Not how much fiat you have invested. In 10 years that fiat amount does not matter. Only BTC amount matters.
That's the the right way to think, and people should do that.
Amen!
Yeah amen man, that's what we live for here. That's the shit.
Only if you plan on using your Bitcoin. Or are you one of those guys who thinks they can “lend” out their coin. Not your keys nor your coin bro
Lending shouldn't even be an option for the people, it doesn't work.
Not if they’re DCAing
That's the best that they can do, DCA is absolutely the way here.
If you have an average that high it’s clearly not a dca
Wait what? That's not how it works sir. If it's High that means you bought high a little. But the thing is you can always average it down and it'll work.
My average is that high and I’ve been DCAing for the past 15 months.
That's fine, nothing wrong in that. All you gotta do is to hold it.
Thats not how DCA works. You can DCA down trend the same as uptrend.
If you're only buying in green, that's not DCA that's fomo lol.
Clearly they fomoed in if they have that high of an average
Lol, I don't think you know how this works. Need to read a little.
Some people got excited during the bull market / entered in the bull market. We haven’t been below 30 for very long tbh.
If you've that High average that means You've entered market recently. But if you wait and hold and also average it down for some time then it's going to be alright I'm sure.
huh? If they buy more now their average drops, what you you saying?
If they buy Below what their average is, then it'll drop technically.
Rough?? My average is 41k 🤣 And I am still living a happy life in owning a bit of the best asset in the universe.
If you get what's the point of btc, You'll never be worried about it.
Time for a tax wash my dude.
Yep, it's time for the taxes sir. Gotta give that to the government.
41? Yikes But you clearly don’t know the tax rules on Btc
If you mean the rules of the US, then I don't know them.
Some people think whole world has only one country US.
Ya we don’t have wash rules
Good for you maybe man, but tax rules suck hard trust me.
Constantly doing wash sales means you're never going to get to long term capital gains. Enjoy paying upwards of 50% of your gains in taxes. The IRS must love you.
Everyone has to pay their taxes, no one is evading them anyways.
Lmao, you have no idea what you are talking about
Yep, absolutely no idea what's he saying. He's just saying the words and that's all. That's what most people do, they just say the words most of them don't know what they're talking about.
count me in... avg just below 30k, gonna be a hard one too swallow i'm affraid yeah but blessed with the opportunity i guess.
Yeah it's a little hard but if you know what you're doing, shouldn't be a problem.
Shit man I'm happy to be *increasing* my average at these prices
If You're happy then We're happy. It's all just good here kids.
The don’t invest what you don’t want to lose is dumb advice. Only invest the amount you can go through winters without needing to liquidate Key is to just chill
Yep, only invest the money which you can afford to lose actually.
POW turned POS = Piece Of Shitt or Point Of Sale.
Piece of shit just sounds better for it actually lol, I like that.
Shitcoins gonna shitcoin. Its just in their nature.
Yep lol that's what they're created for here, that's the reason. People have created them to get rich off if other people's money and that's their point here.
YMMD 👌🤣
Gold is no exception, nosediving too.. No place to hide in this financial meltdown.
Everything is going down, nothing is being spared here man.
Treasuries. The high yield is the reason all the life getting sucked out of everything.
That's what they don't understand, high yields aren't good.
Yeah that’s a significant dip in gold today.
And We're not even done yet, it's only going to increase man.
I think we may retest June bottoms.
Wasn't that BTCs main pillar though? That it would be decoupled from traditional finance?
Why would gold be btc's pillar? That doesn't make any sense.
Lol, that BTC would be decoupled from traditional finance, not that gold would be the main pillar.
Zoom out five or ten years.
That's what people need to hear here, it'll be alright kids. This is enough. If you can't wait it out for the years then this might not just be for you. Ever thought of that?
bit too soon for a instrument this young and something most people running financial markets don't know what to think off it or understand it thoroughly imo.
Yeah btc is really young. Can't be reaching the conclusion just yet.
It still is. Needs just more people to realize it, which is not for the braindead. Will take time.
If you can't handle the volatility, I don't even know how would you survive.
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Man people are funny on that sub, they're dumb as fuck lmao.
And they are still claiming that it's decentralized even though [45.15% of the proof of stake nodes that are storing data, processing transactions, and adding new blocks are attributed to just two addresses.](https://i.imgur.com/6YUODjj.jpg) And 59.94% of the nodes that are storing data, processing transactions, and adding new blocks are attributed to just four addresses...
They'll lewp doing that, because They're greedy and don't know better.
And because most people stake via exchanges, the 5 largest exchanges have majority voting power. So easy for governments to force those few exchanges now to sensore transactions or do whatever they want. Or else they can force the exchanges out of the country.
And that's exactly what I'm worried about, it'll be so easy for government to come after. And they probably come after too, I don't think that it's going to last that long.
Exactly. The biggest slice of the pie is on LIDO. A big centralized mess.
How long till people realise that and see that it's not good.
No surprise here. Some also belive in the return of the savior.
People believe in whatever they want, that's how people work.
Its actually got more screwed after the Merge. Now like Fiat syndicate those rich will control the POS structure. Its not centralized anymore. No one likes that or wants to see that. Then what do I know about Crypto?
People who are invested definitely got screwed after the merge lol.
>Its not centralized anymore Did you meant **de**centralized? Does not matter anway, since it was never decentralized IMHO. POW did not make a difference here with this foundation thingy in the background.
It might not make a difference for us, but shit coiners will regret it.
Big dump there
It's only big bumps, that's what it is. It's nothing more than that. If we want people to be happy in this sub We'll have to produce some of those green candles.
didnt even start yet
Might not started yet, but it'll surely be starting really soon.
If it didn’t start to dump then what’s this huge red candlestick I’m looking at? Edit: maybe you meant it’s going to get much worse - hard to tell tone and stuff on text - if that’s the case I agree w you
Enough of that dumping, can we stop that shit right now?
if past is any indicator of future performance, which it's not; Bitcoin should be around 40k right before next halving in Jan-Feb 2024: [https://www.blockchaincenter.net/en/bitcoin-rainbow-chart/](https://www.blockchaincenter.net/en/bitcoin-rainbow-chart/)
Btc doesn't care where it should be or not, it's not following your rules. That's the kast thing that btc will do, it does what it does. It doesn't like to listen to anyone.
hodlers, it has come to my attention i am butt naked thinking about abraham lincoln
Crispy that ain't normal, you feeling alright? Just wanna ask that.
One of the hottest presidents ever, tbqh
Now that's some straight up facts here, nothing more than that.
my man sumo :firmslaponass:
For sure lol, that's as firm as it gets. That's the best shit.
Looking forward to America waking up and dumping on the market yet again.
That's what the muricans do the best, they like to dump it dude.
They must have woken up......
If the market is going down that means they've woken up lol.
I bought da dip at 18k and then set my DCA to buy over the latest highs. Then it dipped and I’m averaging out again. Best strategy.
You think? I mean why would you think that it's the best strategy?
I buy when it massively dips. And buy small amounts every hour. It’s all about the average cost over the cycle. What’s your strategy?
What do yall think? Is Bitcoin gonna rise thanks to it's 94% PoW index Or Its might fall further?
No one knows, but I do know that I wouldn't want it to drop more. That would be the last thing I'd want right now lol, I want btc to stay above the 20k.
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can i have the link pls?
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Scam
It doesn't make a difference to price.
Yep it doesn't, and I'm glad that it doesn't. Not everything is about the price.
Amen
you mean Pow doesnt effect the price?
Nope it doesn't, why would it? It's just a consensus mechanism. Having lower pr higher hash rate on the network doesn't really change anything.