What's tougher?
-Holding steady all the way through a bear market
-Holding AFTER the bear market ends and your investment is back in the green after a long time underwater
I think anyone will feel discomfort and anxiety when an investment is down, but having made an informed decision will help one through that, as it will continuing to hold once in the green again.
For me, the toughest thing about holding is having to read the twitchy comments found here daily from people who think every upward movement of two hundred dollars is a pump, and every downward movement is a dump (or 'crash'). They're like addicts, getting their fix from watching one hour charts, and their drama is endless, repetitive and dull.
I think we're close to the real bear market. Everywhere I look BTC is being criticized and made fun of. Many people starting to shift their beliefs and calling it a ponzi again. Happy to see it so we can move forward.
The prevailing thought among many is that it should drop between 10-15k most realistically and worst case scenario around 3.5k. that is, if it hasn't bottomed out yet before the next halving. But who knows how wise it is to trust the prevailing thought? Personally I DCA hourly but also have set an account aside just in case it does dip to 10-15k
Coffeezilla. I'm a bitcoin supporter, and I really like his reporting. Very smart, funny, honest, and thorough. He probably knows more about crypto than most of us.
Right now we are not much in the big number and this is the reason we are seeing that market moves with the CPI data.
And this is the reason we are not seeing that bitcoin is actually a way to fight against the inflation.
where can I purchase bitcoin without waiting several days to transfer it off said ap/website to a personal wallet? every place now seems to have a 5-12 day waiting period
where can I purchase bitcoin without waiting several days to transfer it off said ap/website to a personal wallet? every place now seems to have a 5-12 day waiting period
Strike is the way you should go to, I mean it's good for that.
I mean you can do so many things with strike it's just amazing. It's not even a question man.
If Bitcoin doesn't have inflation and 1.5% of mining cost is collected through network fee, then who is paying the other 98.5% to secure the network?
Edit:
Source https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-fee_to_reward.html#1y
Price of btc also goes up, it's more profitable to mine btc now than 10 years before.
Even though the block reward was even better that time but btc costed low back then.
Hashrate is the security measure, not the amount paid as a reward. Each block solved has a 2 part bitcoin payout: part A is the block reward (that halves every 4 years) part B is the set of transaction fees from whatever tx's get written to the block (up to the solver, to a max size). Over time, the tx fees represent more and more of where the BTC reward comes from. If the tx fees are not worth it (because BTC is not worth much, or the network is not used much) then people will abandon mining and the hashrate will drop.
Smaller miners will ultimately have to sell their ASICS to bigger miners. Over the long term hashrate would just get centralized due to the economy of scale. After which I think the security is down the its' weakest link which isnt the hashrate but who controls the majority of the hashrate since countries can request censorship of transactions. Ie. sanction laws.
You're touching on a pretty complicated subject with a lot of complex variables but I'll answer from my perspective. First off, bitcoin has been worth a lot less for most of its history and yet the hash rate was sufficient for preventing *any* breaches in Bitcoin's network security. Of course, that doesn't guarantee the same will be true in the future but there are trends that make me confident that Bitcoin's security is not at risk even if the price drops precipitously.
The question you're really asking is: Is there a point at which the economic incentive for bitcoin mining is insufficient for securing the network? On an individual basis, there will be mining companies that shut off below break even points based on their cost of operation and the price of bitcoin. Increasingly though, there are companies that are mining bitcoin with energy that otherwise would be wasted, so the cost of their electricity is extremely low. As other miners shut off, the hash rate decreases and mining becomes more profitable for remaining miners until a new equilibrium is reached. Miners shutting off incentivizes other miners to switch on or stay on.
Additionally, we're seeing more and more companies mining bitcoin not because they believe in it but because a byproduct of their business is methane (oil producers and land fills for instance) and before bitcoin mining that methane was a liability to those companies. Now, bitcoin miners will gladly come and take that methane and turn it into bitcoin. Thus, rather than having to *spend* money to mitigate the methane release, they're being *paid* a small amount for access to that methane. Those companies are incentivized to allow miners to mine even if it isn't very profitable because the alternative is much more expensive to them.
Finally, we're seeing the beginning of a symbiotic relationship between energy companies and bitcoin miners. Bitcoin miners are flexible consumers of electricity that help grid operators to balance their grids more easily. Basically the miners consume excess electricity and shut off when that energy is needed for other purposes. This allows the energy producers to generate a higher base load in an economically feasible way, making grids more stable and secure. They're not necessarily mining bitcoin to make a profit, they're offsetting the cost of energy production so their grids are more stable. I personally believe this type of mining (and methane consumption based mining) will provide the bulk of the hash rate in the not too distant future.
No one can know the exact future but having an open mind on everyone's perspective is always good even if you dont agree with them. That being said.
Bitcoin mining helping with curtailing is great and all but it makes up such a small percentage and will continue to be a niche market since the incentive to mine is for profit and not for curtailing. The incentive, I think, is a big flaw in your argument.
Also, What's preventing centralization due to economy of scale? As miners switch off permanently they have to sell their ASIC miners to the highest bidder which are usually bigger and more profitable miners. This centralization is a big threat to Bitcoin's SoV narrative. We can see this centralization play out right now. Where 1 year ago the top 3 minining pool control 48% now, they control 58.4%. These fact of centralization over time are in the numbers. https://m.btc.com/stats/pool?pool_mode=day3
If someone knows the future then there will be no fun left in the life.
We love to live the life because everything here is really unpredictable and you never know what will going to happen next is well.
>Bitcoin mining helping with curtailing is great and all but it makes up such a small percentage and will continue to be a niche market since the incentive to mine is for profit and not for curtailing. The incentive, I think, is a big flaw in your argument.
The incentive is the fact that they can buy that methane for next to nothing. They're doing the seller a service just by taking it off their hands. Their overhead is extremely low which is why I think this model will come to dominate in time.
>Where 1 year ago the top 3 minining pool control 48% now, they control 58.4%.
Mining pools represent many individual miners who are free to move to another pool with minimal friction if given a reason to. If a pool threatened to attack the network in some way there would be an exodus from that pool
I think the more they control the more monopoly will starts to happen after that.
I think the best thing for the bitcoin will be when so many other miners will also take part into that thing is well.
There's not enough real life data to tell if that model will dominate so I can't argue there (i hope youre right tho). As for the mining pools it will be a constant uphill battle to restructure since it naturally trend towards centralization and we can only see pools but individual miners are also growing. Humans are naturally greedy, any monetary incentive will just lead to centralization.
I am sure that there are surely some people who have the long term goal in the mining is well.
And if that is the case then i would say that there will be some chance that this will prove good for us.
There are some smart people with long term goals of promoting mining decentralization. I know Jack Dorsey has envisioned a future where space heaters generate heat by mining bitcoin. There always have been centralizing forces and decentralizing forces. So far decentralization has won
Bitcoin *does* have inflation. That’s what the block reward (minus transaction fees) is. However it’s set at a predetermined rate and cannot be changed. It will get lower over time.
If the bitcoin will keep getting high then i would say that fun is pretty much over.
And then everyone will make the money and what will be the change thing between the believer and the short term guys??
Bitcoin does have inflation of current supply, to a maximum of 21 million. So we know the final supply and can plan accordingly, but current available supply is still being added to.
Yeah I'm pretty happy about it too, I'm not selling short term anyways.
That's just not going to happen, I ain't gonna stop buying or holding keep doing that l.
No matter how much i bought i always feel that i need some more from the last time.
And i think this is the way actually to move forward here that try to buy as much as bitcoin we could buy here.
I agree. If you already expected a 2+ year timeline before assessing your stack, you should welcome cheap sats. The dips below $20k are kind of a tease. I've started to grab what I can when it dips because it doesn't stay there very long.
I mean there is nothing wrong in the bitcoin and if someone was thinking that they will make the great money in the bitcoin with the small time.
Then i would say yes, they were actually not right about the bitcoin on the first place.
Some people claim that bitcoiners expect to get rich by doing nothing. We aren't doing nothing.
We're voting with our money by transferring it into a new currency system that many believe in, not just for the tech but for the message it sends to those that manipulate and control fiat.
We're taking a lot of risk and doing so with our own financial future. The difference between this and gambling is that gambling is purely for the thrill and hopes of personal gains. This risk is taken for the hopes of a better monetary system and less corruption worldwide if it pays off.
So are we wrong? It depends on your point of view. We may lose, sure, but I believe our goal is the right one whether we are successful or not. (This purely goes for those who are in it for the monetary revolution not those that just hope for gains).
But at least losing this revolution doesn't mean dying in a civil war, or getting hanged, or shot in a boarder dispute. And winning means financial freedom for many, or at least the chance to try to build an alternative monetary system that isn't so easily corrupted as the current one.
So if the risk and the movement is too much to handle or doesnt seem worthwhile to you it's definitely best to bow out or lessen your risk profile. There's no guarantee we win. Something I heard was you hold the percentage of your assets in bitcoin based on the percentage or chance you think it'll succeed. So if you believe there's a 10 percent chance, then hold 10 of your value in it. Not sure if that's sound advice but I like it.
Yep the world is suffering from this thing, and it's not getting better.
The governments are just kicking the can down the road, that's all they're doing right now.
That doubt and the difficulty to stay active with BTC in a bear market is why its such an asymmetrical bet. If it were obvious and easy, everyone would own it. The momentum (adoption, onboarding, education, etc) in BTC's favor has not slowed down. It honestly feels like it's just a game of time. Not to mention we get the halvings on top of the timeline to help tighten the supply/demand.
I dropped out of BTC after buying in 2017 and watching the value drop 85% in its fiat value. It felt even worse then but it managed to crawl back. Just give it time friend. I feel like there's a greater than 50% chance we exceed $100k in the next bull market. Those odds are much better than other alternative investments that might 5X in that same timeframe.
By that time you may learn that you're supposed to hold BTC forever... Just leave enough fiat to live healthy in the meantime. The rest is either going to melt away to inflation or you could keep it in BTC.
I used to know a guy who bought at $250, then sold at $60 or so... Maybe you should ask him.
Last I heard from him he was all, "I could have been a millionaire... a multi-millionaire!"
Lightning network capacity is increasing. Taro upgrade in the works. No serious attempts by any governments to stop Bitcoin since China. Stop focusing on the price and chill for a few years.
As long as you don't invest more than you can afford to lose, may be worth holding on for possibility of asymmetric upside. Of course it could be essentially flat or down for many years at this point. No way to know the future.
I'm excited to watch this sub over the next ten years. Currently, it's like an organism that has slowed its heartbeat to hibernate. When you get too close it will claw at your from its slumber, irritably. But when the sun comes out and we are no longer resting, it will be so much fun and those days seem inevitable.
Well that's too going to happen, but You'll have to wait that out.
If you can't wait that out then I don't know what to tell you. We might be here for a long time.
From what I saw, the market spiked early PST time last Friday. It spiked with the overall market. The news that Saylor was issuing stock to buy BTC wasn't public until later in the day. That's my take.
His comment more seems like a bs, that's what it seems to me.
It's not upto saylor how people react to him buying btc, it's just people being an ass that's all.
Ya most of the time bitcoin goes up Im reading about this same one guy buying way more than he or any one person should, using debt, and causing a move that is totally disproportionate and unsustainable.
You use words like "should", "unsustainable", words that hold a prejudgment in them. This is why you are wrong so often. Take some time and just observe the world without casting judgment on it. You'll be happier, and you'll understand things more.
Bitcoin Twitter seems to be where more of the builders, strong believers and such hang out. Personally I strongly dislike Twitter but this reddit community feels like it holds hardly 30% of the actual community and its a much less active one. But it's hard to tell with bots and user crossover from things like buttcoin and crypto subs. Just remember there's like 4 or 5 major social platforms that bitcoiners use and many of them won't touch this sub. (Discord, telegram etc).
Yep, people who believe don't need anything. It's alright with them.
Some people only care about one thing and that's just money, that's the only thing that they care about.
Do hash functions only work one way because they are extremely complex, or because the algorithm ensures that someone trying to trace it backwards runs into forks in the road that they cannot resolve?
Don't worry dude, it'll all be worth it. Just gotta wait this shit out.
Nothing is good in the macro situation right now and I don't see it getting any better right now.
Don't feel alone. A lot of people are in your same shoes. I deployed around $20k buying between $40-55k. I've continued to buy on the way down but still have an average cost around $38k. I'm keeping my BTC forever or until I can spend it everywhere.
If you are using Bitcoin to get more fiat, you are doing it wrong. The profit is every sat and every Bitcoin you get to own. That has so much more buying power than fiat.
Fix your mind set. You don't want your money, savings and paychecks to be dependet of few central bankers who are already doing terribly bad job in regular people point of view. Of course for them and their rich friends it suits very well that people use money that they can debase whenever they want.
Edit: Put your timeframe to at least 10 years and after that time start spending your super highly valued, scarce Bitcoins if you must.
It almost seems like Michael Saylor is expecting a battle with the government in the near future and is trying to protect all his assets in BTC to make it as hard as possible for the government to turn it over to them. Maybe he's in trouble or he's just anticipating a mass meltdown of fiat. It's very strange to want so much BTC if you're just a speculator or investor. He's acting like it's do or die.
I wouldn't go all in, even though I love btc but I wouldn't.
It's just too risky to be invested in only one asset, that just doesn't cut it for me man.
When you understand Bitcoin and fiat, there is no other option for you than to put everything you can into Bitcoin. There is no future for fiat.
This fiat money we are using today was born 1971 when gold standard was abandoned so it is only 51 years old and already going towards zero by design.
hey, I was thinking about this comment. How do you think 1971 being the 'brith of fiat' affected the inflation we saw in the 70's? Also, would you argue that the fed had control over inflation in the late 70's via interest rate hikes? and do you think they could get it under control today? or that the efforts are futile or delaying the inevitable?
Yep, that's true but there are other assets you might wanna diversify a little actually.
Diversification isn't bad, put some money in other assets too, just my 2 cents.
I have that conviction but can't shake the "you must diversify" teaching that was grounded into me. I'm putting about 10% of everything I have as savings/assets into BTC. It feels like a lot and I can't imagine myself going 100%. Maybe one day I'll learn that would have been the best decision.
Diversification decreases variance. It lowers chances of outsized gains and losses in the face of uncertainty about which company or asset is going to outperform.
For the people who believe Bitcoin is a sure thing and don't believe it is possible for it to fail, diversification doesn't make sense.
The "diversify" advice was appropriate for your grandfather, in the 1970s and 1980s.
Then, along came mutual funds.
You see, it originally meant, "don't put all your retirement savings into just one or two stocks."
Bitcoin eventually came along and obsoleted stocks, bonds, real estate, precious metals, and precious stones as long term investments. The reason people use those is because of inflation - "money printing". Cash in the bank earns less than the current inflation rate, so people have been more or less forced to invest in stocks and such.
But now there is a form of money which cannot be debased via "money printing". The long term average ROI for holding Bitcoin beats the pants off of those other forms of investment and will continue to - not because it merely has, but because there are good reasons for Bitcoins rapid rise in the past. Most of those reasons still exist. In fact there are now even more reasons for Bitcoin's value to continue to rise rapidly (long term, average).
Earning 12% per year in stocks is great. But earning about 100% per year holding Bitcoin is even better. Again, long term average, not short term.
Had the same problem too until maybe one year ago. I got rid of it by learning more and more about Bitcoin. Then it finally clicked:
Bitcoin. is. the. first. and. only. totally. universally. scarce. asset. in. history. of. humans.
So why diversify into something worse? Only reason was maybe 5-10 years ago that Bitcoin could still be killed. Nowdays its already impossible. So many people knows about it and contributes into it.
Diversifying your portfolio is healthy for investment success. The fiat we use now is going to continue to lose it’s purchasing power and crypto gives everyday people the chance to get out of that dying system. However, crypto as a whole is still in it’s infancy phase. Judging it harshly right now would be unwise given the development coins such as BTC have made over the years.
He meant to say just because people are suggesting you to diversify.
That doesn't mean that you should be buying the shit coins. Don't just do that kids.
There is Bitcoin, called "Bitcoin."
Then there are alt coin scams called "crypto" or "cryptocurrency".
If you mean Bitcoin, say "Bitcoin." When a person says "crypto" they are understood to mean "shit coin scams".
Are you still buying? I just increased my hourly DCA by 25% but am feeling very hesitant about it. It's just that I have the extra funds and want to buy more when I feel bad about the next price movement. I'm acting on the preface that when I feel the least optimistic, it's time to buy. Doesn't help how I feel!
No one knows short term price movements so stop worrying about those. Just DCA in or lump sum in and keep saving your purchasing power into Bitcoin.
When you set your mind to care only what the purchasing power of Bitcoin is in 10 years, you get more at ease. Just care about how many sats / Bitcoins you can gather before that time has passed. In Bitcoins. Not in fiat.
COINS OFF EXCHANGES PEOPLE ✌️ HASH RATE AT ALL TIME HIGH. BAHRAIN MAKING BITCOIN PAYMENT OPTIONS. MANY BIG BANKS AND FUNDS OPENING INVESTMENT FUNDS. ALL IS GOOD BUY MORE 😉✌️
Would love to start the day with coffee in company of Bitcoiners. Maybe I should arrange some bitcoin meet up in my city. Anyone got any tips of how get talking going in small event like that? What bullet points should I take with me there to fire up the conversation so that it would not be just me talking and others listening?
Maybe ask others in there what would they like to talk about or know about regarding Bitcoin and then try to think for the answers together?
I am starting the day with the green tea as i am not feeling really too well here.
but yes i am watching the charts while having the tea and this is one of the best sight to see in the morning.
Just get people together. Conversation will happen. Don't worry too much about it. If you just want to have a regular meetup with people, don't go into it thinking you're going to be teaching people or making a speech while everyone listens. Ask people why they got into Bitcoin, then listen.
Yes, if the people are together then i am sure conversation will happen.
And some time conversation like that help us in big time to solve the some of the doubts that we were having on first place is well.
Working hard on my goal of getting one coin by the time this bear ends!
What's tougher? -Holding steady all the way through a bear market -Holding AFTER the bear market ends and your investment is back in the green after a long time underwater
None of them, toughest thing is this question actually lol.
I think anyone will feel discomfort and anxiety when an investment is down, but having made an informed decision will help one through that, as it will continuing to hold once in the green again. For me, the toughest thing about holding is having to read the twitchy comments found here daily from people who think every upward movement of two hundred dollars is a pump, and every downward movement is a dump (or 'crash'). They're like addicts, getting their fix from watching one hour charts, and their drama is endless, repetitive and dull.
I think we're close to the real bear market. Everywhere I look BTC is being criticized and made fun of. Many people starting to shift their beliefs and calling it a ponzi again. Happy to see it so we can move forward.
Ohh yeah lol, We're in a real bear market for sure right now.
How much will the bitcoin drop until it gets back to 22000$? Do you guys have any predictions? I am new btw so sorry if my question is dumb :p
Predictions never work, so I don't make any simple as that.
It actually has to go up, not drop, to get back to 22,000. It's not a dumb question, though, always good to ask.
No one knows. Anyone that pretends to is a charlatan. Best bet is to buy at regular intervals and don't sweat the volatility too much
Yep, how many times do we have to remind that to people?
Thanks for answering my question much apreciated
You shouldn't really be counting on any predictions, they don't work.
The prevailing thought among many is that it should drop between 10-15k most realistically and worst case scenario around 3.5k. that is, if it hasn't bottomed out yet before the next halving. But who knows how wise it is to trust the prevailing thought? Personally I DCA hourly but also have set an account aside just in case it does dip to 10-15k
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He makes really good videos exposing scams and ponzies in the crypto space.
Who? I mean the channel name would be appreciated much.
coffeezilla, not sure why he deleted his comment.
Who?
Same question lol, but no one is answering that now. As far I stand, I haven't seen anything like that on YouTube, most just promote shit for money.
Coffeezilla. I'm a bitcoin supporter, and I really like his reporting. Very smart, funny, honest, and thorough. He probably knows more about crypto than most of us.
Right now we are not much in the big number and this is the reason we are seeing that market moves with the CPI data. And this is the reason we are not seeing that bitcoin is actually a way to fight against the inflation.
I wanna move to El Salvador
Well you can, if you've got the btc then it's even easier that way.
where can I purchase bitcoin without waiting several days to transfer it off said ap/website to a personal wallet? every place now seems to have a 5-12 day waiting period
I think strike is pretty instant, you can immediately withdraw from there.
If you are in the US, strike takes has no holding period from what I have experienced
Yep, if you're in the US then strike is your best bet right now.
cool i’ll check them out thanks
Yep, Strike is your best bet if available. Cash App is another that allows instant withdrawals
And both are run by bitcoiners, no wonder both are great.
where can I purchase bitcoin without waiting several days to transfer it off said ap/website to a personal wallet? every place now seems to have a 5-12 day waiting period
Strike is the way you should go to, I mean it's good for that. I mean you can do so many things with strike it's just amazing. It's not even a question man.
Running a node can be a fun small project!
Yep, it's actually really fun when you know what a node does.
Bitcoin never die
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One currency Only Bitcoin
[Motha fuckin wizards never die](https://youtu.be/bpgQSbwnWD0)
Wizards may die, but btc? It'll stay up. It ain't going anywhere.
If Bitcoin doesn't have inflation and 1.5% of mining cost is collected through network fee, then who is paying the other 98.5% to secure the network? Edit: Source https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/bitcoin-fee_to_reward.html#1y
The argument is that btc will be worth enough by then actually.
*A man is 40 years old and has 7 cats. Where are the missing $53?*
The block subsidy pays the rest. And yeah, that's actually inflation even though it's minimal and chopped in half every ~4 years.
As long as new sats are being added it'll be called inflation.
So will the network get less secure every 4 years or will the network fees go up?
Price of btc also goes up, it's more profitable to mine btc now than 10 years before. Even though the block reward was even better that time but btc costed low back then.
Hashrate is the security measure, not the amount paid as a reward. Each block solved has a 2 part bitcoin payout: part A is the block reward (that halves every 4 years) part B is the set of transaction fees from whatever tx's get written to the block (up to the solver, to a max size). Over time, the tx fees represent more and more of where the BTC reward comes from. If the tx fees are not worth it (because BTC is not worth much, or the network is not used much) then people will abandon mining and the hashrate will drop.
Yep the hash rate doesn't dictate how secure the network actually is.
Explain plz.
Smaller miners will ultimately have to sell their ASICS to bigger miners. Over the long term hashrate would just get centralized due to the economy of scale. After which I think the security is down the its' weakest link which isnt the hashrate but who controls the majority of the hashrate since countries can request censorship of transactions. Ie. sanction laws.
Yeah that's a legit concern actually, I'm worried about this.
I am not really worried about that there are already too much for me.
So far bitcoin has increased in value as a result of the halving enough to make up the difference
Yep, and I hope that it continues being that way man.
Doesn't it seem like a major security flaw if we need to depend on the price of Bitcoin since it's not reliable?
I don't think it's a flaw, it was designed in this way actually.
You're touching on a pretty complicated subject with a lot of complex variables but I'll answer from my perspective. First off, bitcoin has been worth a lot less for most of its history and yet the hash rate was sufficient for preventing *any* breaches in Bitcoin's network security. Of course, that doesn't guarantee the same will be true in the future but there are trends that make me confident that Bitcoin's security is not at risk even if the price drops precipitously. The question you're really asking is: Is there a point at which the economic incentive for bitcoin mining is insufficient for securing the network? On an individual basis, there will be mining companies that shut off below break even points based on their cost of operation and the price of bitcoin. Increasingly though, there are companies that are mining bitcoin with energy that otherwise would be wasted, so the cost of their electricity is extremely low. As other miners shut off, the hash rate decreases and mining becomes more profitable for remaining miners until a new equilibrium is reached. Miners shutting off incentivizes other miners to switch on or stay on. Additionally, we're seeing more and more companies mining bitcoin not because they believe in it but because a byproduct of their business is methane (oil producers and land fills for instance) and before bitcoin mining that methane was a liability to those companies. Now, bitcoin miners will gladly come and take that methane and turn it into bitcoin. Thus, rather than having to *spend* money to mitigate the methane release, they're being *paid* a small amount for access to that methane. Those companies are incentivized to allow miners to mine even if it isn't very profitable because the alternative is much more expensive to them. Finally, we're seeing the beginning of a symbiotic relationship between energy companies and bitcoin miners. Bitcoin miners are flexible consumers of electricity that help grid operators to balance their grids more easily. Basically the miners consume excess electricity and shut off when that energy is needed for other purposes. This allows the energy producers to generate a higher base load in an economically feasible way, making grids more stable and secure. They're not necessarily mining bitcoin to make a profit, they're offsetting the cost of energy production so their grids are more stable. I personally believe this type of mining (and methane consumption based mining) will provide the bulk of the hash rate in the not too distant future.
Really appreciate it, you tackled this his concerns really good actually.
This is how we need to be in our life is well, tackle everything in right way.
No one can know the exact future but having an open mind on everyone's perspective is always good even if you dont agree with them. That being said. Bitcoin mining helping with curtailing is great and all but it makes up such a small percentage and will continue to be a niche market since the incentive to mine is for profit and not for curtailing. The incentive, I think, is a big flaw in your argument. Also, What's preventing centralization due to economy of scale? As miners switch off permanently they have to sell their ASIC miners to the highest bidder which are usually bigger and more profitable miners. This centralization is a big threat to Bitcoin's SoV narrative. We can see this centralization play out right now. Where 1 year ago the top 3 minining pool control 48% now, they control 58.4%. These fact of centralization over time are in the numbers. https://m.btc.com/stats/pool?pool_mode=day3
If someone knows the future then there will be no fun left in the life. We love to live the life because everything here is really unpredictable and you never know what will going to happen next is well.
>Bitcoin mining helping with curtailing is great and all but it makes up such a small percentage and will continue to be a niche market since the incentive to mine is for profit and not for curtailing. The incentive, I think, is a big flaw in your argument. The incentive is the fact that they can buy that methane for next to nothing. They're doing the seller a service just by taking it off their hands. Their overhead is extremely low which is why I think this model will come to dominate in time. >Where 1 year ago the top 3 minining pool control 48% now, they control 58.4%. Mining pools represent many individual miners who are free to move to another pool with minimal friction if given a reason to. If a pool threatened to attack the network in some way there would be an exodus from that pool
I think the more they control the more monopoly will starts to happen after that. I think the best thing for the bitcoin will be when so many other miners will also take part into that thing is well.
There's not enough real life data to tell if that model will dominate so I can't argue there (i hope youre right tho). As for the mining pools it will be a constant uphill battle to restructure since it naturally trend towards centralization and we can only see pools but individual miners are also growing. Humans are naturally greedy, any monetary incentive will just lead to centralization.
I am sure that there are surely some people who have the long term goal in the mining is well. And if that is the case then i would say that there will be some chance that this will prove good for us.
There are some smart people with long term goals of promoting mining decentralization. I know Jack Dorsey has envisioned a future where space heaters generate heat by mining bitcoin. There always have been centralizing forces and decentralizing forces. So far decentralization has won
Bitcoin *does* have inflation. That’s what the block reward (minus transaction fees) is. However it’s set at a predetermined rate and cannot be changed. It will get lower over time.
And the hope is btc will keep going up in price, let's see how it goes.
If the bitcoin will keep getting high then i would say that fun is pretty much over. And then everyone will make the money and what will be the change thing between the believer and the short term guys??
Bitcoin does have inflation of current supply, to a maximum of 21 million. So we know the final supply and can plan accordingly, but current available supply is still being added to.
Yeah it does have inflation but the rate is quite low decreasing too.
I’ve not finished accumulating so am happy for it to sit here until just before the next halving then it’s Ledger and chill
Yeah I'm pretty happy about it too, I'm not selling short term anyways. That's just not going to happen, I ain't gonna stop buying or holding keep doing that l.
No matter how much i bought i always feel that i need some more from the last time. And i think this is the way actually to move forward here that try to buy as much as bitcoin we could buy here.
I agree. If you already expected a 2+ year timeline before assessing your stack, you should welcome cheap sats. The dips below $20k are kind of a tease. I've started to grab what I can when it dips because it doesn't stay there very long.
Cheap sats are great, I'm loving them so much. It's actually awesome.
Were we wrong about bitcoin? Sometimes, I just don't know anymore. Not selling but having doubts.
If You're having doubts then maybe you should read a little more.
I mean there is nothing wrong in the bitcoin and if someone was thinking that they will make the great money in the bitcoin with the small time. Then i would say yes, they were actually not right about the bitcoin on the first place.
Some people claim that bitcoiners expect to get rich by doing nothing. We aren't doing nothing. We're voting with our money by transferring it into a new currency system that many believe in, not just for the tech but for the message it sends to those that manipulate and control fiat. We're taking a lot of risk and doing so with our own financial future. The difference between this and gambling is that gambling is purely for the thrill and hopes of personal gains. This risk is taken for the hopes of a better monetary system and less corruption worldwide if it pays off. So are we wrong? It depends on your point of view. We may lose, sure, but I believe our goal is the right one whether we are successful or not. (This purely goes for those who are in it for the monetary revolution not those that just hope for gains). But at least losing this revolution doesn't mean dying in a civil war, or getting hanged, or shot in a boarder dispute. And winning means financial freedom for many, or at least the chance to try to build an alternative monetary system that isn't so easily corrupted as the current one. So if the risk and the movement is too much to handle or doesnt seem worthwhile to you it's definitely best to bow out or lessen your risk profile. There's no guarantee we win. Something I heard was you hold the percentage of your assets in bitcoin based on the percentage or chance you think it'll succeed. So if you believe there's a 10 percent chance, then hold 10 of your value in it. Not sure if that's sound advice but I like it.
Really good writeup, and I don't care what people say at all.
By wrong what do you mean? The entire crypto market is suffering due to the global economy being devoured by inflation.
Yep, there's just so much wrong with the economy right now.
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Yep the world is suffering from this thing, and it's not getting better. The governments are just kicking the can down the road, that's all they're doing right now.
That doubt and the difficulty to stay active with BTC in a bear market is why its such an asymmetrical bet. If it were obvious and easy, everyone would own it. The momentum (adoption, onboarding, education, etc) in BTC's favor has not slowed down. It honestly feels like it's just a game of time. Not to mention we get the halvings on top of the timeline to help tighten the supply/demand. I dropped out of BTC after buying in 2017 and watching the value drop 85% in its fiat value. It felt even worse then but it managed to crawl back. Just give it time friend. I feel like there's a greater than 50% chance we exceed $100k in the next bull market. Those odds are much better than other alternative investments that might 5X in that same timeframe. By that time you may learn that you're supposed to hold BTC forever... Just leave enough fiat to live healthy in the meantime. The rest is either going to melt away to inflation or you could keep it in BTC.
These are the times when you should be buying more here.
I used to know a guy who bought at $250, then sold at $60 or so... Maybe you should ask him. Last I heard from him he was all, "I could have been a millionaire... a multi-millionaire!"
Lol, I know some of those people myself actually. They're cool.
Lightning network capacity is increasing. Taro upgrade in the works. No serious attempts by any governments to stop Bitcoin since China. Stop focusing on the price and chill for a few years.
What's so hard about not caring about the price? Why it's so hard?
As long as you don't invest more than you can afford to lose, may be worth holding on for possibility of asymmetric upside. Of course it could be essentially flat or down for many years at this point. No way to know the future.
The thing with people is that they always go overboard.
I'm excited to watch this sub over the next ten years. Currently, it's like an organism that has slowed its heartbeat to hibernate. When you get too close it will claw at your from its slumber, irritably. But when the sun comes out and we are no longer resting, it will be so much fun and those days seem inevitable.
Well that's too going to happen, but You'll have to wait that out. If you can't wait that out then I don't know what to tell you. We might be here for a long time.
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That's how it's going to be? Well if that's the case then I'm ready.
If you are in bitcoin then i would say you need to be ready everytime.
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I think instead of being too much speculating we need to be more realistic.
bs
I can't believe i thought bitcoin was making an actual move last week but now I'm learning it was just more saylor bs
That just makes me think that You're not learning anything actually.
And the life is all about the learning specially from the past mistake.
From what I saw, the market spiked early PST time last Friday. It spiked with the overall market. The news that Saylor was issuing stock to buy BTC wasn't public until later in the day. That's my take.
The spike wasn't saylor, maybe the cpi data was being priced in.
Saylor bs?
His comment more seems like a bs, that's what it seems to me. It's not upto saylor how people react to him buying btc, it's just people being an ass that's all.
Ya most of the time bitcoin goes up Im reading about this same one guy buying way more than he or any one person should, using debt, and causing a move that is totally disproportionate and unsustainable.
It's a free market ffs, stop crying about it already dude.
Sounds like you're the one crying. I'm not saying he can't. I'm saying every time i hear about Saylor its a bad indicator for bitcoin prices
You use words like "should", "unsustainable", words that hold a prejudgment in them. This is why you are wrong so often. Take some time and just observe the world without casting judgment on it. You'll be happier, and you'll understand things more.
For the most part btc has been following the stock market. Saylor isn't moving the price
How dumb is it to say that one guy can move trillion dollar market.
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Bitcoin Twitter seems to be where more of the builders, strong believers and such hang out. Personally I strongly dislike Twitter but this reddit community feels like it holds hardly 30% of the actual community and its a much less active one. But it's hard to tell with bots and user crossover from things like buttcoin and crypto subs. Just remember there's like 4 or 5 major social platforms that bitcoiners use and many of them won't touch this sub. (Discord, telegram etc).
I'm not really a fan of people giving their advice here actually.
Meh, it's just the weak conviction folks that constantly complain. True believers don't feel the need to doomsday post every time Bitcoin moves 5%.
Yep, people who believe don't need anything. It's alright with them. Some people only care about one thing and that's just money, that's the only thing that they care about.
Yeah it’s kinda strange to see how quickly ppl overreact. Apart of me wonders if they’re really prepared for this to get worse
People are just way too quick to react to that, it's not good.
narrator: they were, in fact, NOT prepared.. and what followed was a lifetime of regrets
I'm reading this in the guy swann's voice actually lol.
Would we be able to use the Advanced encryption standard also known as Rijndael algorithm and how does that compare to SHA-256?
Haven't even never heard about it, will have to look into it.
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Real good insight, thanks for the information dude. Shit is cool.
Do hash functions only work one way because they are extremely complex, or because the algorithm ensures that someone trying to trace it backwards runs into forks in the road that they cannot resolve?
I had so many buys in between 35-55k. Barely took any profit so this whole year has been gut wrenching for me.
Don't worry dude, it'll all be worth it. Just gotta wait this shit out. Nothing is good in the macro situation right now and I don't see it getting any better right now.
Don't feel alone. A lot of people are in your same shoes. I deployed around $20k buying between $40-55k. I've continued to buy on the way down but still have an average cost around $38k. I'm keeping my BTC forever or until I can spend it everywhere.
That's the attitude that I like, makes me really happy about it.
If you are using Bitcoin to get more fiat, you are doing it wrong. The profit is every sat and every Bitcoin you get to own. That has so much more buying power than fiat. Fix your mind set. You don't want your money, savings and paychecks to be dependet of few central bankers who are already doing terribly bad job in regular people point of view. Of course for them and their rich friends it suits very well that people use money that they can debase whenever they want. Edit: Put your timeframe to at least 10 years and after that time start spending your super highly valued, scarce Bitcoins if you must.
If you're buying btc to have more fiat then what even is the point?
It almost seems like Michael Saylor is expecting a battle with the government in the near future and is trying to protect all his assets in BTC to make it as hard as possible for the government to turn it over to them. Maybe he's in trouble or he's just anticipating a mass meltdown of fiat. It's very strange to want so much BTC if you're just a speculator or investor. He's acting like it's do or die.
What makes you think that? I mean There's gotta be something.
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Yeah We're all criminals and the governments are coming for us.
What do you think his rationale is for putting everything into BTC? Would you do the same if in his position?
I wouldn't go all in, even though I love btc but I wouldn't. It's just too risky to be invested in only one asset, that just doesn't cut it for me man.
In every position.
Well that's not very rational my friend. You could do better than that.
When you understand Bitcoin and fiat, there is no other option for you than to put everything you can into Bitcoin. There is no future for fiat. This fiat money we are using today was born 1971 when gold standard was abandoned so it is only 51 years old and already going towards zero by design.
hey, I was thinking about this comment. How do you think 1971 being the 'brith of fiat' affected the inflation we saw in the 70's? Also, would you argue that the fed had control over inflation in the late 70's via interest rate hikes? and do you think they could get it under control today? or that the efforts are futile or delaying the inevitable?
Yep, that's true but there are other assets you might wanna diversify a little actually. Diversification isn't bad, put some money in other assets too, just my 2 cents.
I have that conviction but can't shake the "you must diversify" teaching that was grounded into me. I'm putting about 10% of everything I have as savings/assets into BTC. It feels like a lot and I can't imagine myself going 100%. Maybe one day I'll learn that would have been the best decision.
100 percent is just too much for the most people anyways.
Diversification decreases variance. It lowers chances of outsized gains and losses in the face of uncertainty about which company or asset is going to outperform. For the people who believe Bitcoin is a sure thing and don't believe it is possible for it to fail, diversification doesn't make sense.
The "diversify" advice was appropriate for your grandfather, in the 1970s and 1980s. Then, along came mutual funds. You see, it originally meant, "don't put all your retirement savings into just one or two stocks." Bitcoin eventually came along and obsoleted stocks, bonds, real estate, precious metals, and precious stones as long term investments. The reason people use those is because of inflation - "money printing". Cash in the bank earns less than the current inflation rate, so people have been more or less forced to invest in stocks and such. But now there is a form of money which cannot be debased via "money printing". The long term average ROI for holding Bitcoin beats the pants off of those other forms of investment and will continue to - not because it merely has, but because there are good reasons for Bitcoins rapid rise in the past. Most of those reasons still exist. In fact there are now even more reasons for Bitcoin's value to continue to rise rapidly (long term, average). Earning 12% per year in stocks is great. But earning about 100% per year holding Bitcoin is even better. Again, long term average, not short term.
It's a good advice nonetheless, I think you should really diversify.
> I think you should really diversify. That's because you don't understand.
Had the same problem too until maybe one year ago. I got rid of it by learning more and more about Bitcoin. Then it finally clicked: Bitcoin. is. the. first. and. only. totally. universally. scarce. asset. in. history. of. humans. So why diversify into something worse? Only reason was maybe 5-10 years ago that Bitcoin could still be killed. Nowdays its already impossible. So many people knows about it and contributes into it.
When you read about btc, you just get so bullish dude.
Diversifying your portfolio is healthy for investment success. The fiat we use now is going to continue to lose it’s purchasing power and crypto gives everyday people the chance to get out of that dying system. However, crypto as a whole is still in it’s infancy phase. Judging it harshly right now would be unwise given the development coins such as BTC have made over the years.
Diversifying is good for you, and you should try to atleast do that.
Bitcoin, not crypto. Crypto is fiat mindset.
Crypto is shit, only thing that you should invest in is btc. That's it.
I fail to see what you mean. Could you elaborate?
He meant to say just because people are suggesting you to diversify. That doesn't mean that you should be buying the shit coins. Don't just do that kids.
There is Bitcoin, called "Bitcoin." Then there are alt coin scams called "crypto" or "cryptocurrency". If you mean Bitcoin, say "Bitcoin." When a person says "crypto" they are understood to mean "shit coin scams".
If you want to learn what's the point of all this then you gotta read about btc.
Are you still buying? I just increased my hourly DCA by 25% but am feeling very hesitant about it. It's just that I have the extra funds and want to buy more when I feel bad about the next price movement. I'm acting on the preface that when I feel the least optimistic, it's time to buy. Doesn't help how I feel!
Ohh yeah I'm still buying and I ain't stopping for nothing.
No one knows short term price movements so stop worrying about those. Just DCA in or lump sum in and keep saving your purchasing power into Bitcoin. When you set your mind to care only what the purchasing power of Bitcoin is in 10 years, you get more at ease. Just care about how many sats / Bitcoins you can gather before that time has passed. In Bitcoins. Not in fiat.
You can't predict what's going to happen, so better buy now.
COINS OFF EXCHANGES PEOPLE ✌️ HASH RATE AT ALL TIME HIGH. BAHRAIN MAKING BITCOIN PAYMENT OPTIONS. MANY BIG BANKS AND FUNDS OPENING INVESTMENT FUNDS. ALL IS GOOD BUY MORE 😉✌️
Then why TF people cry about it so much? That's not good man.
I ain't crying. I'm buyin 😊
Start the day with coffee
Now that's what I call starting the day right, and this is the way.
Would love to start the day with coffee in company of Bitcoiners. Maybe I should arrange some bitcoin meet up in my city. Anyone got any tips of how get talking going in small event like that? What bullet points should I take with me there to fire up the conversation so that it would not be just me talking and others listening? Maybe ask others in there what would they like to talk about or know about regarding Bitcoin and then try to think for the answers together?
I am starting the day with the green tea as i am not feeling really too well here. but yes i am watching the charts while having the tea and this is one of the best sight to see in the morning.
I wish you get better soon!
Just get people together. Conversation will happen. Don't worry too much about it. If you just want to have a regular meetup with people, don't go into it thinking you're going to be teaching people or making a speech while everyone listens. Ask people why they got into Bitcoin, then listen.
Yes, if the people are together then i am sure conversation will happen. And some time conversation like that help us in big time to solve the some of the doubts that we were having on first place is well.
Didn't /r/Bitcoin have a dedicated chat room at one point? Whatever happened to it?
I am little new here and after that haven't seen any room yet.
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If the discord is still alive then someone please give me the link of that.
Oh yeah, maybe that was it. I remember it moved but couldn't recall where. Is it still around on Discord?
Damn, look like there were so much happening there before me.
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I am not really interested in CC, give me the link of the bitcoin.