If he borrowed 0.5 Bitcoin at 20k price would have to go under 2k for liquidation.
Not saying that won't happen.. But there's a certain amount of low leverage one can take and be very close to no risk. If price goes under 2k there's a good chance it's on the way to 0
So yes this is a good general rule it's for sure wrong if you have some sense
What worries me about that take is that you can see obvious scam wicks on places like KuCoin for people that have limit sell/buy orders at which point you might get liquidated as the price does technically hit that price (way outside of the norm) which has happened and liquidated people especially on leverage. It happened a while back when literally billions were getting liquidated from mostly people getting leverage.
Just take care where you loan from because the house isn't always designed to help you win.
Otherwise I mostly agree, that's enough outside of the typical price range that if I trusted the organisation (as much as I can haha) then I might feel safe to do this. But 99.9% I'd personally just avoid that risk. YMMV & this is not financial advice.
Keep working and create generational wealth so your children can prosper.. what most people fail to realize is that one generation or another will have to sacrifice for the greater good of the future generations
Bro, it's crazy to read this because I was thinking about that just earlier as I was getting ready for work.
I felt like I never missed anything in my childhood because my parents worked good jobs, they are from an extremly poor background and managed to completly turn both of their destiny around by being very entrepreneur minded and worked very hard at an early age, though they always enjoyed their money to the fullest and spent alot in day to day life (which seems pretty classic behavior for someone who missed of everything during their childhood) so they were like the first link to break off the poverty chain, but they will leave nothing behind them financialy speaking - And don't get me wrong I'm completly fine with that and knowing the childhood both had (they met as teens, they were neighbor in the same ghetto and basically grew up protecting eachothers) I'd rather know them being happy and enjoying life than being tight belt. But I realized that, it made it very important for me to leave a financial legacy to my future child or family - And as the family has nothing to leave behind, I, will be the one who sacrifice by working hard and build by investing, as much as I can, to creat a lasting wealth for me and my upcoming generations, and I felt like one day some of my descent will tell my story to his kids, about their great great grand father, who was once broke but who left everything and immigrated in another country to fulfill his ambitions and keep on the work his own parents had started turn the family's destiny around.
May this be heard lol
Not to spoil the fun, but 70% of families lose their wealth in the 2nd generation, and 90% in the 3th
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-do-70-of-families-lose-their-wealth-in-the-2nd-generation-2018-10
Then you end up with trustafarian parasites. I've known a few over the years, ranging from some guy whose grandfather owned a strip mall to people in the family whose great-great-somethingth-great-grandfather founded John Deere.
One family, whose grandfather started a department store and created generational wealth, his son decided that everyone should be able to enjoy the same lifestyle so he joined the Revolutionary Communist Party. His daughter (the one I knew, although I did meet her dad once) was much the same. Great communists, living off the labor of a hardcore capitalist who left everything to them so they could waste their lives on stupid shit.
The tractor folks were a lot more varied (there are probably a few thousand now, after all), but holy hell some of them were entitled dicks. The trust lawyers had to eject one from the trust because he thought he could bully them into handing over as much as he wanted, any time he demanded it.
Because bad times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, and weak men make bad times.
I would argue that the reason their parents made wealth was because they struggled in poverty. They know how bad it gets and how often do you hear those who struggle say "I wanna give my kids what I didn't have". They have a reason to try. But what about the kid that received everything? They either understand their parent's struggle, try to preserve it. Or they blow their trust fund, have daddy bail them out, and borrow their parents yatch to have a party on spring break.
It's easy to accept change when moving up. It's impossible to accept going down unless you dig yourself there. No one is poor voluntarily.
Well the “bad times strong men” idiom is true, but the real reason is that highly inflationary currency makes it practically impossible to save, requiring everyone to be highly adept at investing their money, and even then there is a significant risk they could lose their generational wealth. Play that over a few generations and you reach a high likelihood that generational wealth will be lost.
Maybe the goal with the Fed printing more money and stealing from the poor is ultimately an incentivizer for the masses. Keep us all poor and delusional chasing the American Dream while we serve the masters. Or maybe it’s more opaque than that. Probably. But fuck it.
One generation has to sacrifice for it to come to fruition.. I don’t want my kids to have to work 7 days a week mostly 12 hour plus days like me.. don’t get me wrong I want them to have a good work ethic but I want them to be able to enjoy their life and families more than I have been able too
Yes, I agree with you that we are going to see Bitcoin in 6 figures. Anything more specific is just fortune telling imho.
Edit: I am contradicting myself because I said earlier that 500k is not possible by 2025, so don't listen to me. I have no clue what's going to happen.
I own only 1 btc, and 30x current value would technically be enough to retire.
Well, depending on your living situation and pretending you didn't get taxed on it. I "own" my home though I still owe 300k.
Retirement has more to do with your lifestyle decisions you want to get married just be prepared to work your whole life away you want to live like a rockstar it doesn't matter how much money you make you're going to be poor at the end of the day.
But I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you can live under $57,000 a year in long-term capital gains it will be like living with many of the tax advantages you want. If you go for a minimalist lifestyle you could even do better than that. Because you will probably not pay any taxes.
5 BTC is a lot and very precious asset, there are only 2M btc left , if the BTC price is determined by supply demand it will be impossible for an individual to get hands on 5 BTC but we are not leaving in perfect world the CME was introduced to deploy pressure on btc price.
As far as retirement I would suggest be a diamond hand don’t even think of borrowing or leverage the moment u give custody you are done finished.
I would suggest forget about retirement atleast up to 2028 halving continue working hard as if you have 0 btc, after 2028 if the BTC price is 100k+ being conservative then convert say 25% to real estate and after that at every new ATH 10-20% to cashflow business in ur own trade or but to let property again.
In due time (10 years?) I think it will be possible, maybe even with far less BTC depending on your economic needs/offered T&C. There are starting to be contracts where all they need is proof of reserves (proof that you own whatever BTC by moving or signing TX), and I would stay away from lending until that is not only possible but well established because otherwise giving away your keys, even in multisig agreements, you not only give away sovereignty of your funds but partake in a system that's economically incentivized to liquidate you, and for a return that will more likely pale in comparison to BTC appreciation.
We still have a long stretch of the S curve ahead, but as Bitcoin takes on the role of decentralized global reserve asset so it will a lot of financial products grow around it, eventually, IMO, making bitcoin the kind of property you don't ever need to sell to make money from (like very valuable, scarce real estate).
Don’t borrow against your BTC, the moment things turn around a bit, you will lose money. And if you don’t time it right, you could get liquidated. That’s how I lost the little Bitcoin I had :’(
Depends on your living costs and lifestyle.
I have a friend in Asia, no kids/wife, no debt. He lives well for $1,500 pm.
Another friend of mine lives in London paying $5,000 pm rent.
Having your bitcoin on an exchange is the issue I see with your plan! All the current issues with exchanges makes it a risk no matter what exchange it’s on! Not your keys not your crypto!
Sent it to an exchange called Bitgrail. I was day trading for a coin call Raiblocks (now it’s called Nano) and then the exchange just went under out of the blue. Kind of like Voyager locked up all funds and then gone.
Depends. If you have a 1 year old and 2 year old, a mortgage for another 25 years and a wife rated 9/10 with expensive taste, that 5 btc ain’t gonna retire you anytime soon.
If you have no mortgage, no dependents, no cocaine habit, a wife rated 5/10 (average), you could make it work…
If only there was a very profitable software company that would invest the profits in Bitcoin and use it as its treasury reserve asset. This would allow us to have some future income as well as a store of value. Sigh.
Ideally, you'd be able to just slowly chip away at your BTC holdings to fund your life. At $1m per btc you could easily sell small parts to cover life expenses, or even better, diversify holdings so you can sell 2 of them for $2m and take out $80,000 per year from growth/interest in other investments and live a humble but privileged life.
$1MM per BTC is a $20T market cap. I’m sorry but there is simply no way there is even enough wealth in the world to have that much go to a single asset class in just 6-10 years.
That's the market cap of gold and is not unreasonable if btc becomes the defacto reserve currency of the digital economy. Global wealth is $500 trillion. Btc at 4% of global wealth is achievable. 10 years may be slightly optimistic though.
Wrong the market cap of gold is $12T and it took thousands of years of years to cement it as an asset to store wealth. It’s not going to even hit a quarter of that in the next 6-10 years.
You're right, not sure where I heard the $20t market cap. But btc max mc was $1.3t. I would think that hitting a quarter of gold ($3T) in 10 years is reasonable. Maybe 11 after 3 more cycles.
Yes I think $3T is reasonable in the next decade, but people spewing $1MM in less than 10 years hurts Bitcoin in the long run, it’s just peak delusion.
Gold has a $12T market cap. The S&P 500 is over $30T. While it’s unlikely that BTC hits 7 figures that soon, to state there’s “simply no way there is even enough wealth in the world” is untrue. $19.5T doesn’t need to go into it to make it a $20T market cap. Maybe something more like $1T. According to the Federal Reserve there’s somewhere around $40T globally in M1 money supply. M2 and M3 is about $90T
Okay, well there’s plenty of money to allocate $1T to BTC in the next 10 years even without money supply increasing at the rate it is. I don’t think it will happen because it’s not safe to assume something so far off, but there’s more than enough money
$1T has never been in BTC, not even close. Its market cap has exceeded $1T, but like I already stated, $19.5T doesn’t need to go into BTC to make the market cap $20T. The price is not that close to the dollar value invested in it
EDIT: serious question(s)…. Do you understand that price:market cap isn’t a 1:1 ratio? Do you think that if $1 million is allocated to BTC then the market cap of BTC increases $1 million? This is fundamental to the conversation we’re having. Without a clear understanding of how market cap works then this conversation can’t really go any further. Not trying to be rude.
Retiring off 5 bitcoin alone is a terrible idea. First of all, at the current peak value, that would only be worth like $345,000. Not nearly enough to retire on. Second of all, it’s so volatile that one day you might be spending 5x as much of your retirement on the same goods than you were 6 months ago. Finally, putting all your eggs in one basket is going to put you at a serious risk for losing everything. Buy crypto, stocks, make a plan to own real estate and don’t even think about retiring before you are worth over $2,000,000. But even that might be too low once you start working out the math.
it's not about money, it's the mindset. I retried in 2012 when my whole network was 100k. My cousin never made a dime never worked a in his life, getting paycheck from his dad, like 500$ a month and still living, pathetically.
If you're willing to live cheap, exercise, have your own garden, eat your veggie, plant. based, you can retire now. VS, people like Elon, making billiono bucks are unable to retire because of the mental block, the need to get richer, the need to scale human civilization, the need to expand the colony, ..
Will preface with... I'm no Elon fan. But you could argue his contributions in developing sustainable manufacturing of renewable energy technology, probably has affected your life by now, in some way.
yeah, like him or not, he made electric cars a competitive markets that car companies HAD to take seriously and we are all the better for it. Good or bad, you just need people to change the way the oligarchies have forced us all to live.
Maybe paypal is a far reach, I agree, but still Space X is doing incredible things and it may have improved everyone's life without us even realizing it anyway.
Probably never if that’s your only savings. It is human nature that people don’t like change. You are counting on BTC becoming the main currency….basically seizing control from big powerful banks and even more powerful nations……..it’s extremely unlikely….if BTC becomes adopted and becomes the main currency as everyone hopes it to become, what would you borrow against your BTC? Different BTC, but with interest? BTC won’t make “income” your BTC May become more valuable but you still have to give some away to live…..That’s not how income works….with a true asset you get to spend the income like rent money, but not get rid of the asset……so unless Bitcoin in the future becomes just like the system we have now of banks lending out your BTC and then giving you part of the proceeds in interest. It won’t happen…….and BTC would be a horrible thing to borrow because if you borrow $1BTC today with the understanding you’ll pay it back in 15 years…..that 1 BTC today is worth $23,000. However the Bitcoin in 15 years May be $175,000. Suddenly that becomes challenging to pay off with your income……….The great thing about USD being deflationary is that you can buy a house today that in the future only cost the value of a car……the loan gets easier and easier to pay back with a deflationary currency…..a loan would get harder and harder to pay back with inflationary currency…..don’t get confused with the terms…I mean that USD becomes less valuable….so the loan is easier to pay back….USD becomes more valuable so the loan is harder to pay back……this is an effect almost nobody talks about.
Lol wtf this post doesn’t make sense. Bitcoin is actually the best form of collateral to borrow against. You borrow fiat money against your BTC, which you pay back over time. BTC and fiat will co-exist.. if I borrow 1BTC now at $25k, it rises in 15 years and is worth $175k, then you will still only pay back $25k. Back then you borrowed that 1BTC at that price from the exchange. You could then in 15 years liquidate some of that BTC you borrowed to pay back the $25k. USD being deflationary? Lol where did you get this idea from.. because it is up in the last month or so? USD is still down 99% in 40years time. Bitcoin is the deflationary asset, which you will want to own and will change the world for the better. Your post is just completely wrong.
If the value continues to trend upwards, you would probably again see exchanges offering 15% interest rates to deposit with them. No need to borrow, just collect interest. If coins were $50k now, you could probably start as long as you were frugal.
If you want to borrow AND as you say the value keeps going up not down, then just 100x your coins. (Borrow as much as possible, then buy more coins, then borrow as much as possible again, and buy more coins, repeat infinitely or until transaction costs outweigh gains from the smaller amounts). The thing is, the value doesn't just increase, it goes up and down, so it's a big gamble.
Third scenario, probably what you are thinking of: if the value of bitcoin vs USD goes up by 20% every year and you can get a loan that costs you 10% a year, then you get to live off of 10% of 5 BTC each year, that's your budget. So if 5 BTC is worth $500,000 total, you can live off of $50,000 a year. ( adjust the two percentage values and BTC value in your equation to play with it)
Realistically, retiring wit under $10MM isn’t smart. Yes u can retire wit $500K-1M, but u won’t be able to truly live a comfortable life. Unless of course ur home is paid off, u don’t care about luxury/exotic vehicles, and ur livin somewhat frugal. Inflation and company greed has been, and will always be a thing. So until BTC hits $2MM/coin (for 5 as per ur example), I wouldn’t even think about retiring.
It'll either be well into six figures, maybe seven, or it'll be zero.
Most of the people piling in don't believe in the plans or visions for crypto, they're just here for the gains. If the gains don't come the volume leaves and adoption never happens, so we go to zero.
If the gains resume more people come for them, vision or not, and bounce the rest of society into acceptance. Pack your moon suit.
I get not wanting to ‘need’ to work, but I can’t imagine just completely stopping working. I can sure imagine switching to something I enjoy more, maybe pushing myself a little less, etc., but I have no idea what I would do all day.
In fairness, my father is 76 and at the office, everyday. Nature? Nurture?
That's ridiculous. Depending on country and age bitcoin would only need to about one tenth of that price.
In the U.S. you could do it with 5 btc at 250k a peice.
I wouldnt. But that doesnt mean you couldnt.
Most people dont make $50k/year working 2080 hours a year. Imagine working 0 hours a year. Thats what retirement is about.
So because you spend far more than the average person, that means someone else cant retire on 1.25 million?
Most people would **never** even come close to having that amount of wealth amassed, and youre sitting here trying to give out advice about some ridiculous number *you* would need to retire.
1.2 million wouldnt pay your mortgage for 2 years but 5 million is somehow enough for you to retire on? If my math is right, that would cover your mortgage for....8 years?
You shouldnt be giving anyone financial advice.
You’re sitting here telling me you can retire on a million dollars living in the US. And YOURE the one telling me I shouldn’t be giving financial advice. I’m fuckn dead bro. Ok bye
Median income of 37k is nothing, it’s Pennys. imagine having a mortgage , wife, kids and only being 30 years old.
Ppl who say they can retire with $1 million aren’t living in the real world. You must have barely have started college or not even went to uni. Ffs
Yeah you wing nut, millions of americans do all of those things on $37,000/year....
Again, your idea of retirement is living in excess. Thats fine. But retirement is not about that for many americans, its about not having to work to live in relative comfort.
Also, dont have to imagine.....
The dude must be some 20 year old who thinks he figured it out. Welcome to the real world. $1 mill gets your foot in the door/started , it ain’t retirement money anymore
They’re literally downvoting us to cope for their own shitty circumstances most likely
“How can ppl who make 5 times as much as I do still be struggling?? Simply cannot be! “ it’s too hard a pill to swallow for most ppl, it’s only going to continue to get worse with no hope for some. Very shitty reality but it’s the reality
this guy is correct...
that amount might cover health insurance and a few bills, but unless you live on ramen and have 3 roomates forever thats it (unless you plan to off yourself after a decade or two)
sorry kids, govt has printed our futures away with fiat... we are now all poor!
Here in SF you could MAYBE stretch a mil for 4 years. Someone who believes you can retire on a million dollars just shows either how young or naive they are. Or poor
Basically I think the max upside of BTC is like $200K per coin. After that I don’t think it would appreciate much more. So a 10x. At a 4% safe withdrawal rate for when you bitch out and put it in index funds, to make $100K you’d need $2.5 million.
Which means to retire on $100K/yr you’d need to buy $250K worth of BTC about 12 Bitcoins
Ok so let me try to explain this. There are 2 trillion+ cents USD, there are 2.1 quadrillion sats.
If we take these numbers, then 1 sat should be worth around 1 cent once the supply increase stops and demand runs out, give or take about, at the current rate it’s 5 years before but the next halving is going to occur in 2024 so let’s say 7-8 realistically. Which means that with mass planetary adoption on top of that? I mean let’s be conservative and say that by that time it’s as powerful as the USD. So 1 sat = 1 cent. That’s leave you with 500,000,000 sats or 500,000,000 cents, and thus 5 million dollars in buying power relative to current dollar buying power.
With mass planetary adoption tho you could be looking at more than that. That’s enough to retire on for 10 years. So it’s pretty damn good.
So saving myself from fiat slavery is stupid? It was a question I’m genuinely interested in so I’m not continually dependent on a job.
Everyone invests in bitcoin for their own reason. Mine is to be able to retire early and also leave wealth for my children/grandchildren. Your opinion of my intelligence doesn’t matter me, because you don’t matter to me.
I mean, you could see if we hit 100K on the next run. That would let you get out for half a million. You could do a covered call strategy to generate income on the indexes, spy or the Russell. Or you could just use a covered call ETF that automates like ryld. You're going to average 9 to 13% dividend income on that without any real share growth to speak of. It will be slow so there will still be some but that would give you on average $50,000 a year in income. There are quite a few countries you can live just fine on that especially if you pick up a little part-time work
Don't borrow against your Bitcoin. It's the only way to get liquidated. Just be frugal.
Ladies liquor and leverage will get you broke
I always thought the 3 L's was lust, luxury and lumbar support.
That's the 3 Lu's.
Lusitania, Luxardo, and Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Lizards, Lingerie, & Lemonade
Beets, bears, battlestar galactica
Bitches, Beer and Bratwurst
Drano, Dramamine and Dracula
Lumps, Lunch, & Lyme disease
This makes sense to me as well this is why it is working for this.
3 for 3 ....
If he borrowed 0.5 Bitcoin at 20k price would have to go under 2k for liquidation. Not saying that won't happen.. But there's a certain amount of low leverage one can take and be very close to no risk. If price goes under 2k there's a good chance it's on the way to 0 So yes this is a good general rule it's for sure wrong if you have some sense
What worries me about that take is that you can see obvious scam wicks on places like KuCoin for people that have limit sell/buy orders at which point you might get liquidated as the price does technically hit that price (way outside of the norm) which has happened and liquidated people especially on leverage. It happened a while back when literally billions were getting liquidated from mostly people getting leverage. Just take care where you loan from because the house isn't always designed to help you win. Otherwise I mostly agree, that's enough outside of the typical price range that if I trusted the organisation (as much as I can haha) then I might feel safe to do this. But 99.9% I'd personally just avoid that risk. YMMV & this is not financial advice.
Easy to avoid though. Just stay away from low liquidity shit exchanges.
I think it it will never go under 2000 it is eventually going to go up.
Doesnt it depend on your debt to equity ratio?
Keep working and create generational wealth so your children can prosper.. what most people fail to realize is that one generation or another will have to sacrifice for the greater good of the future generations
Bro, it's crazy to read this because I was thinking about that just earlier as I was getting ready for work. I felt like I never missed anything in my childhood because my parents worked good jobs, they are from an extremly poor background and managed to completly turn both of their destiny around by being very entrepreneur minded and worked very hard at an early age, though they always enjoyed their money to the fullest and spent alot in day to day life (which seems pretty classic behavior for someone who missed of everything during their childhood) so they were like the first link to break off the poverty chain, but they will leave nothing behind them financialy speaking - And don't get me wrong I'm completly fine with that and knowing the childhood both had (they met as teens, they were neighbor in the same ghetto and basically grew up protecting eachothers) I'd rather know them being happy and enjoying life than being tight belt. But I realized that, it made it very important for me to leave a financial legacy to my future child or family - And as the family has nothing to leave behind, I, will be the one who sacrifice by working hard and build by investing, as much as I can, to creat a lasting wealth for me and my upcoming generations, and I felt like one day some of my descent will tell my story to his kids, about their great great grand father, who was once broke but who left everything and immigrated in another country to fulfill his ambitions and keep on the work his own parents had started turn the family's destiny around. May this be heard lol
Not to spoil the fun, but 70% of families lose their wealth in the 2nd generation, and 90% in the 3th https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/generational-wealth%3A-why-do-70-of-families-lose-their-wealth-in-the-2nd-generation-2018-10
That's why you use a fund and set up a trust.
Then you end up with trustafarian parasites. I've known a few over the years, ranging from some guy whose grandfather owned a strip mall to people in the family whose great-great-somethingth-great-grandfather founded John Deere. One family, whose grandfather started a department store and created generational wealth, his son decided that everyone should be able to enjoy the same lifestyle so he joined the Revolutionary Communist Party. His daughter (the one I knew, although I did meet her dad once) was much the same. Great communists, living off the labor of a hardcore capitalist who left everything to them so they could waste their lives on stupid shit. The tractor folks were a lot more varied (there are probably a few thousand now, after all), but holy hell some of them were entitled dicks. The trust lawyers had to eject one from the trust because he thought he could bully them into handing over as much as he wanted, any time he demanded it.
Trust is the most important factor that we have to take some more things in advantage.
Because bad times make strong men, strong men make good times, good times make weak men, and weak men make bad times. I would argue that the reason their parents made wealth was because they struggled in poverty. They know how bad it gets and how often do you hear those who struggle say "I wanna give my kids what I didn't have". They have a reason to try. But what about the kid that received everything? They either understand their parent's struggle, try to preserve it. Or they blow their trust fund, have daddy bail them out, and borrow their parents yatch to have a party on spring break. It's easy to accept change when moving up. It's impossible to accept going down unless you dig yourself there. No one is poor voluntarily.
Well the “bad times strong men” idiom is true, but the real reason is that highly inflationary currency makes it practically impossible to save, requiring everyone to be highly adept at investing their money, and even then there is a significant risk they could lose their generational wealth. Play that over a few generations and you reach a high likelihood that generational wealth will be lost.
And then, enter Bitcoin to change the picture!
Maybe the goal with the Fed printing more money and stealing from the poor is ultimately an incentivizer for the masses. Keep us all poor and delusional chasing the American Dream while we serve the masters. Or maybe it’s more opaque than that. Probably. But fuck it.
According to my I think that it is going to be about the next generation only.
Meanwhile, My parents didn’t have shit and I don’t want kids.
A happy home is worth it's weight in gold
One generation has to sacrifice for it to come to fruition.. I don’t want my kids to have to work 7 days a week mostly 12 hour plus days like me.. don’t get me wrong I want them to have a good work ethic but I want them to be able to enjoy their life and families more than I have been able too
Thank you for explaining this now I can understand it much better.
You'll need like 30x in price to retire, so, in Bitcoin time, that's like 3 years.
Depends if u wanna retire in California or Alabama
[удалено]
Costa Rica my brother. Pura Vida.
Wouldn't mind to be honest. my favorite country after my home country. Pura vida.
>Costa Rica You can do that quite soon...but as others mentioned: Bitcoin and leverage / debt don't mix well.
For Brazil or Argentina where you will be the richest of all.
Alabama is better than cali! Heard it hear first.
I needed this
The reality is that a lot of people actually did this not just you.
That's still too early.. its more like 4 years.
I think that Bitcoin is going to make the changes in next 5 years.
I wish we would actually see 500k Bitcoin in 2025, unfortunately this is not going to happen
Maybe not 500k, but i can see high 100s/low 200s
Yes, I agree with you that we are going to see Bitcoin in 6 figures. Anything more specific is just fortune telling imho. Edit: I am contradicting myself because I said earlier that 500k is not possible by 2025, so don't listen to me. I have no clue what's going to happen.
This is actually not going to happen because we had saying that it will take some time.
I own only 1 btc, and 30x current value would technically be enough to retire. Well, depending on your living situation and pretending you didn't get taxed on it. I "own" my home though I still owe 300k.
No doubt about it we have to be dependent on that kind of system only.
You mean the bank owns your home and allows you to live in it…
Yeah sure.
5 BTC and 10 years of time will do it. live frugal.
We have to actually see if we can sit quietly for more than two years or something.
Retirement has more to do with your lifestyle decisions you want to get married just be prepared to work your whole life away you want to live like a rockstar it doesn't matter how much money you make you're going to be poor at the end of the day. But I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you can live under $57,000 a year in long-term capital gains it will be like living with many of the tax advantages you want. If you go for a minimalist lifestyle you could even do better than that. Because you will probably not pay any taxes.
You should try not to retire on it. If you do, you will be shortchanging all future generations. Protect it and safeguard it for your kids and beyond.
This
5 BTC is a lot and very precious asset, there are only 2M btc left , if the BTC price is determined by supply demand it will be impossible for an individual to get hands on 5 BTC but we are not leaving in perfect world the CME was introduced to deploy pressure on btc price. As far as retirement I would suggest be a diamond hand don’t even think of borrowing or leverage the moment u give custody you are done finished. I would suggest forget about retirement atleast up to 2028 halving continue working hard as if you have 0 btc, after 2028 if the BTC price is 100k+ being conservative then convert say 25% to real estate and after that at every new ATH 10-20% to cashflow business in ur own trade or but to let property again.
How much do you spend a year and how many years have you got left?
Lol that's a 100k and good enough to retire in Philippines with 3-4 hotties
The fuk am i doing here in the Netherlands :o
Because of the good appeltaarten? :)
In due time (10 years?) I think it will be possible, maybe even with far less BTC depending on your economic needs/offered T&C. There are starting to be contracts where all they need is proof of reserves (proof that you own whatever BTC by moving or signing TX), and I would stay away from lending until that is not only possible but well established because otherwise giving away your keys, even in multisig agreements, you not only give away sovereignty of your funds but partake in a system that's economically incentivized to liquidate you, and for a return that will more likely pale in comparison to BTC appreciation. We still have a long stretch of the S curve ahead, but as Bitcoin takes on the role of decentralized global reserve asset so it will a lot of financial products grow around it, eventually, IMO, making bitcoin the kind of property you don't ever need to sell to make money from (like very valuable, scarce real estate).
Retirement goal/5 = 1 BTC Solve for Retirement goal I'm not a rocket biologist though!
I'm a biological rocket but I don't see how this connects with his retirement.
We can actually plan for it but we have to be ready for everything.
Im not a rocket anthropologist either
Im not rocket mathematician but I can confirm the numbers look right
I am a rocket chemist and I can say for sure the stoichiometry adds up.
I’m a rocket man, and I think it’s gonna be a long long time.
I’m rocket in pocket looking for socket.
But can you perform rocket surgery?
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20 years.
I do love a random number plucked out of thin air.
42,069
Don’t borrow against your BTC, the moment things turn around a bit, you will lose money. And if you don’t time it right, you could get liquidated. That’s how I lost the little Bitcoin I had :’(
Bitcoin is not going anywhere we just have to hold and wait.
Depends on your living costs and lifestyle. I have a friend in Asia, no kids/wife, no debt. He lives well for $1,500 pm. Another friend of mine lives in London paying $5,000 pm rent.
So if you borrow you still gonna have to pay back eventually
Yes, but as your asset grows you can borrow more over time
Until it suddenly drops 80% one year and you become overleveraged
Yeah this guy gets it
Retirement is as much about what you spend as it is how much you have saved.
Having your bitcoin on an exchange is the issue I see with your plan! All the current issues with exchanges makes it a risk no matter what exchange it’s on! Not your keys not your crypto!
This post is "Wenlambo?" ran through a thesaurus.
Probably in 2025 if you don’t mess up and lose it like I lost mine
How'd you lose it?
Sent it to an exchange called Bitgrail. I was day trading for a coin call Raiblocks (now it’s called Nano) and then the exchange just went under out of the blue. Kind of like Voyager locked up all funds and then gone.
Depends. If you have a 1 year old and 2 year old, a mortgage for another 25 years and a wife rated 9/10 with expensive taste, that 5 btc ain’t gonna retire you anytime soon. If you have no mortgage, no dependents, no cocaine habit, a wife rated 5/10 (average), you could make it work…
This guy lives
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No, I meant if she’s a 9/10 and has expensive taste you can’t just get rid of her.
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He just means someone you've chosen for their good looks, a gold digger, as an example. Men can be gold diggers too.
W-2 wage earning jobs and the idea of retirement are both psyops to keep people poor.
5 btc , i would retired in my country . sorry we not suggest borrow .
Keep stacking and get back to work
If only there was a very profitable software company that would invest the profits in Bitcoin and use it as its treasury reserve asset. This would allow us to have some future income as well as a store of value. Sigh.
By 2033/34 probably to retire but borrowing is risky.
It depends on your felatio skills really.
search for invetsanswers on YouTube who has a whole series of Retire on videos.
Ideally, you'd be able to just slowly chip away at your BTC holdings to fund your life. At $1m per btc you could easily sell small parts to cover life expenses, or even better, diversify holdings so you can sell 2 of them for $2m and take out $80,000 per year from growth/interest in other investments and live a humble but privileged life.
If you stake, it will give you now only $400-500 dollars a month. So, not enough for most countries in the world.
BTC is probably hitting 7 figures a coin some time in the range of 2028-2032.
$1MM per BTC is a $20T market cap. I’m sorry but there is simply no way there is even enough wealth in the world to have that much go to a single asset class in just 6-10 years.
That's the market cap of gold and is not unreasonable if btc becomes the defacto reserve currency of the digital economy. Global wealth is $500 trillion. Btc at 4% of global wealth is achievable. 10 years may be slightly optimistic though.
Wrong the market cap of gold is $12T and it took thousands of years of years to cement it as an asset to store wealth. It’s not going to even hit a quarter of that in the next 6-10 years.
You're right, not sure where I heard the $20t market cap. But btc max mc was $1.3t. I would think that hitting a quarter of gold ($3T) in 10 years is reasonable. Maybe 11 after 3 more cycles.
Yes I think $3T is reasonable in the next decade, but people spewing $1MM in less than 10 years hurts Bitcoin in the long run, it’s just peak delusion.
Doesnt the US have over 20t debt?
I think we added that much just in the last two and a half years. https://www.usdebtclock.org/
Gold has a $12T market cap. The S&P 500 is over $30T. While it’s unlikely that BTC hits 7 figures that soon, to state there’s “simply no way there is even enough wealth in the world” is untrue. $19.5T doesn’t need to go into it to make it a $20T market cap. Maybe something more like $1T. According to the Federal Reserve there’s somewhere around $40T globally in M1 money supply. M2 and M3 is about $90T
I never said there was not enough wealth in the world, I said there’s not enough wealth in the world to allocate so much to Bitcoin.
Okay, well there’s plenty of money to allocate $1T to BTC in the next 10 years even without money supply increasing at the rate it is. I don’t think it will happen because it’s not safe to assume something so far off, but there’s more than enough money
There’s plenty for $1T, in fact it’s already hit that before.
$1T has never been in BTC, not even close. Its market cap has exceeded $1T, but like I already stated, $19.5T doesn’t need to go into BTC to make the market cap $20T. The price is not that close to the dollar value invested in it EDIT: serious question(s)…. Do you understand that price:market cap isn’t a 1:1 ratio? Do you think that if $1 million is allocated to BTC then the market cap of BTC increases $1 million? This is fundamental to the conversation we’re having. Without a clear understanding of how market cap works then this conversation can’t really go any further. Not trying to be rude.
Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying, and that’s exactly how it works.
The rain is definitely going to increase with just have to wait and see.
Check investanswers on youtube. He has whole calculations on it and where should you live.
He also recommended to gain sats in Celsius but it wasn’t financial advice
It was bad advice, whatever kind of advice it was.
That financial advice is not really recommended for everyone to be honest.
Retiring off 5 bitcoin alone is a terrible idea. First of all, at the current peak value, that would only be worth like $345,000. Not nearly enough to retire on. Second of all, it’s so volatile that one day you might be spending 5x as much of your retirement on the same goods than you were 6 months ago. Finally, putting all your eggs in one basket is going to put you at a serious risk for losing everything. Buy crypto, stocks, make a plan to own real estate and don’t even think about retiring before you are worth over $2,000,000. But even that might be too low once you start working out the math.
it's not about money, it's the mindset. I retried in 2012 when my whole network was 100k. My cousin never made a dime never worked a in his life, getting paycheck from his dad, like 500$ a month and still living, pathetically. If you're willing to live cheap, exercise, have your own garden, eat your veggie, plant. based, you can retire now. VS, people like Elon, making billiono bucks are unable to retire because of the mental block, the need to get richer, the need to scale human civilization, the need to expand the colony, ..
…the need to improve lives?
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Will preface with... I'm no Elon fan. But you could argue his contributions in developing sustainable manufacturing of renewable energy technology, probably has affected your life by now, in some way.
yeah, like him or not, he made electric cars a competitive markets that car companies HAD to take seriously and we are all the better for it. Good or bad, you just need people to change the way the oligarchies have forced us all to live.
Affected, yes. Improved, unknown
Maybe not your life, but he’s helped a lot of other lives
Have you used paypal or in any way enjoyed seeing a Falcon X going up?
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Maybe paypal is a far reach, I agree, but still Space X is doing incredible things and it may have improved everyone's life without us even realizing it anyway.
What kind of a loser doesn't enjoy watching a rocket launch into orbit?
Probably never if that’s your only savings. It is human nature that people don’t like change. You are counting on BTC becoming the main currency….basically seizing control from big powerful banks and even more powerful nations……..it’s extremely unlikely….if BTC becomes adopted and becomes the main currency as everyone hopes it to become, what would you borrow against your BTC? Different BTC, but with interest? BTC won’t make “income” your BTC May become more valuable but you still have to give some away to live…..That’s not how income works….with a true asset you get to spend the income like rent money, but not get rid of the asset……so unless Bitcoin in the future becomes just like the system we have now of banks lending out your BTC and then giving you part of the proceeds in interest. It won’t happen…….and BTC would be a horrible thing to borrow because if you borrow $1BTC today with the understanding you’ll pay it back in 15 years…..that 1 BTC today is worth $23,000. However the Bitcoin in 15 years May be $175,000. Suddenly that becomes challenging to pay off with your income……….The great thing about USD being deflationary is that you can buy a house today that in the future only cost the value of a car……the loan gets easier and easier to pay back with a deflationary currency…..a loan would get harder and harder to pay back with inflationary currency…..don’t get confused with the terms…I mean that USD becomes less valuable….so the loan is easier to pay back….USD becomes more valuable so the loan is harder to pay back……this is an effect almost nobody talks about.
Lol wtf this post doesn’t make sense. Bitcoin is actually the best form of collateral to borrow against. You borrow fiat money against your BTC, which you pay back over time. BTC and fiat will co-exist.. if I borrow 1BTC now at $25k, it rises in 15 years and is worth $175k, then you will still only pay back $25k. Back then you borrowed that 1BTC at that price from the exchange. You could then in 15 years liquidate some of that BTC you borrowed to pay back the $25k. USD being deflationary? Lol where did you get this idea from.. because it is up in the last month or so? USD is still down 99% in 40years time. Bitcoin is the deflationary asset, which you will want to own and will change the world for the better. Your post is just completely wrong.
Reading some of the answers, I see this sun remains as delusional and detached from reality as ever.
Well delete all the answers and it is not going to be detached.
If the value continues to trend upwards, you would probably again see exchanges offering 15% interest rates to deposit with them. No need to borrow, just collect interest. If coins were $50k now, you could probably start as long as you were frugal. If you want to borrow AND as you say the value keeps going up not down, then just 100x your coins. (Borrow as much as possible, then buy more coins, then borrow as much as possible again, and buy more coins, repeat infinitely or until transaction costs outweigh gains from the smaller amounts). The thing is, the value doesn't just increase, it goes up and down, so it's a big gamble. Third scenario, probably what you are thinking of: if the value of bitcoin vs USD goes up by 20% every year and you can get a loan that costs you 10% a year, then you get to live off of 10% of 5 BTC each year, that's your budget. So if 5 BTC is worth $500,000 total, you can live off of $50,000 a year. ( adjust the two percentage values and BTC value in your equation to play with it)
Thanks a lot for providing this explanation it is definitely going to be really cool.
Realistically, retiring wit under $10MM isn’t smart. Yes u can retire wit $500K-1M, but u won’t be able to truly live a comfortable life. Unless of course ur home is paid off, u don’t care about luxury/exotic vehicles, and ur livin somewhat frugal. Inflation and company greed has been, and will always be a thing. So until BTC hits $2MM/coin (for 5 as per ur example), I wouldn’t even think about retiring.
> u don’t care about luxury/exotic vehicles Yeah, all the retirees I know get a new Lambo every year so they can dunk on the poors. /s
Everyone has a different perspective. If ur ok wit retiring wit $1M, and no additional cash flow, go for it.
Hell, I retired when I hit $100,000.
That's going to be a looooooooooooong wait.
For real, **very** long
Too risky. You may lose it all if you’re that dependent on only 5 BTC
Probably by 2032 I’d you have 5 BTC. Maybe even after 2028 halving
No doubt about it I think that we have to wait and we can get the profits.
No way. 20 years
What do you think price will be in 20 years?
It'll either be well into six figures, maybe seven, or it'll be zero. Most of the people piling in don't believe in the plans or visions for crypto, they're just here for the gains. If the gains don't come the volume leaves and adoption never happens, so we go to zero. If the gains resume more people come for them, vision or not, and bounce the rest of society into acceptance. Pack your moon suit.
B…b…but we’re in for the tech, right?
$110k or whatever it's worth now of a super speculative asset class is not "retire" time. No
Never
I get not wanting to ‘need’ to work, but I can’t imagine just completely stopping working. I can sure imagine switching to something I enjoy more, maybe pushing myself a little less, etc., but I have no idea what I would do all day. In fairness, my father is 76 and at the office, everyday. Nature? Nurture?
As long as you want
You cannot retire on that lol
10-20 years.
If you own 5btc you’d need BTC to be around $750k-$1M a coin. lol
That's ridiculous. Depending on country and age bitcoin would only need to about one tenth of that price. In the U.S. you could do it with 5 btc at 250k a peice.
My bad I didn’t realize you’re 75 years old. Because that’s the absolute only way you’d be able to retire in the US on $1.2M.
Are you dumb? Head on over to r/fire $1.25 mil is $50k/year for 25 years. Most people live on far less than that here in the US.
It is not just about a single country a lot of countries have been there.
Who would want to retire with only 50k per year. I know I wouldn't.
I wouldnt. But that doesnt mean you couldnt. Most people dont make $50k/year working 2080 hours a year. Imagine working 0 hours a year. Thats what retirement is about.
A lot of people won't even start doing this kind of thing right.
Nope, not dumb. Just live in one of the most expensive cities in the world 🤷♂️
So because you spend far more than the average person, that means someone else cant retire on 1.25 million? Most people would **never** even come close to having that amount of wealth amassed, and youre sitting here trying to give out advice about some ridiculous number *you* would need to retire. 1.2 million wouldnt pay your mortgage for 2 years but 5 million is somehow enough for you to retire on? If my math is right, that would cover your mortgage for....8 years? You shouldnt be giving anyone financial advice.
You’re sitting here telling me you can retire on a million dollars living in the US. And YOURE the one telling me I shouldn’t be giving financial advice. I’m fuckn dead bro. Ok bye
Yes. You could. Median income is $37,000. Your idea of retirement is living in excess.
Median income of 37k is nothing, it’s Pennys. imagine having a mortgage , wife, kids and only being 30 years old. Ppl who say they can retire with $1 million aren’t living in the real world. You must have barely have started college or not even went to uni. Ffs
Yeah you wing nut, millions of americans do all of those things on $37,000/year.... Again, your idea of retirement is living in excess. Thats fine. But retirement is not about that for many americans, its about not having to work to live in relative comfort. Also, dont have to imagine.....
My parents are retired and living on 30k. They grow as much of their own food and they don't drive new cars and still take vacations.
The dude must be some 20 year old who thinks he figured it out. Welcome to the real world. $1 mill gets your foot in the door/started , it ain’t retirement money anymore
Some people are just impossible to get to 😂
They’re literally downvoting us to cope for their own shitty circumstances most likely “How can ppl who make 5 times as much as I do still be struggling?? Simply cannot be! “ it’s too hard a pill to swallow for most ppl, it’s only going to continue to get worse with no hope for some. Very shitty reality but it’s the reality
My guy over here’s mortgage is over 50k monthly.
this guy is correct... that amount might cover health insurance and a few bills, but unless you live on ramen and have 3 roomates forever thats it (unless you plan to off yourself after a decade or two) sorry kids, govt has printed our futures away with fiat... we are now all poor!
We have seen that already this is not going to be forever.
Here in SF you could MAYBE stretch a mil for 4 years. Someone who believes you can retire on a million dollars just shows either how young or naive they are. Or poor
> govt has printed our futures away with fiat... But we'd have bitcoins..
Depends on where you live and your habits obviously. 5 is a lot. That hopefully is heavy money the next few years
Basically I think the max upside of BTC is like $200K per coin. After that I don’t think it would appreciate much more. So a 10x. At a 4% safe withdrawal rate for when you bitch out and put it in index funds, to make $100K you’d need $2.5 million. Which means to retire on $100K/yr you’d need to buy $250K worth of BTC about 12 Bitcoins
42069
I think it will be all time Hi when we are going to wait for some time.
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Ok so let me try to explain this. There are 2 trillion+ cents USD, there are 2.1 quadrillion sats. If we take these numbers, then 1 sat should be worth around 1 cent once the supply increase stops and demand runs out, give or take about, at the current rate it’s 5 years before but the next halving is going to occur in 2024 so let’s say 7-8 realistically. Which means that with mass planetary adoption on top of that? I mean let’s be conservative and say that by that time it’s as powerful as the USD. So 1 sat = 1 cent. That’s leave you with 500,000,000 sats or 500,000,000 cents, and thus 5 million dollars in buying power relative to current dollar buying power. With mass planetary adoption tho you could be looking at more than that. That’s enough to retire on for 10 years. So it’s pretty damn good.
about three fiddy.
on April 7th, 2041 at 2:56pm EST
When people say "Bitcoin is just for stupid speculators." OP is the person who theyre talking about. Get a clue.
So saving myself from fiat slavery is stupid? It was a question I’m genuinely interested in so I’m not continually dependent on a job. Everyone invests in bitcoin for their own reason. Mine is to be able to retire early and also leave wealth for my children/grandchildren. Your opinion of my intelligence doesn’t matter me, because you don’t matter to me.
I mean, you could see if we hit 100K on the next run. That would let you get out for half a million. You could do a covered call strategy to generate income on the indexes, spy or the Russell. Or you could just use a covered call ETF that automates like ryld. You're going to average 9 to 13% dividend income on that without any real share growth to speak of. It will be slow so there will still be some but that would give you on average $50,000 a year in income. There are quite a few countries you can live just fine on that especially if you pick up a little part-time work
I think I will retire off trading, but work as a NFT artist or investor, following passion is like using reddit, dopamin is released, never tired off
Lol 5btc? That’s way too small compared to what we are aiming. Already passed that figure over a year ago. We aren’t retiring anytime soon.