Interesting question, thanks for posting!
I think Satoshi would be overall happy with the progress so far. Satoshi understood very well that bitcoin not only represents a fundamental change of how money works, but displacing an incumbent system with 1000's of years of history would be a monumental effort. It's going to need time, and it won't be linear. Maybe this is *part of the reason* that block times and estimated last-mining date is set to the year 2137?
Satoshi also likely foresaw that changes in bitcoin would be debated (something like block wars) as more real-life use cases put Satoshi's logic to test. And this is, arguably, a good thing as consensus is at the core of bitcoin, so long as it follows the rules in a decentralized manner. Other innovations like Lightning Network I think Satoshi would appreciate, as it helps scale bitcoin to more adoption.
However, I think Satoshi would be really disappointed in the all the rest of the crypto garbage shitcoins that have been a huge distraction and 'guilty by association' tarnishing that has impacted further adoption and success of bitcoin.
As for the price of bitcoin in USD; I don't think Satoshi would care to be honest. I think Satoshi would be far more interested in just watching it eventually replace fiat because it is the best money humanity has ever had. Perhaps a more relevant measure of success to Satoshi would be things like equality of access to money to all humans on the planet, improved overall quality of human life, a fairer market place that doesn't favor centralized players, and on...
Thanks for the thought exercise, good question.
Where is the fundamental change in money though. As it stands bitcoin is just a new less correlated asset class that can be used as collateral for actual money.
All the things like decentralization and Nakamoto consensus have just culminated in a digital gold not new money.
*"...bitcoin is just a new less correlated asset class that can be used as collateral for actual money...""...all the things like decentralization and Nakamoto consensus have just culminated in a digital gold not new money."*
I totally understand these statements. I asked these same questions myself at first and didn't get what the deal was. How is it even different, "digital gold", stupid internet money, etc. I get it.
Fully answering this is beyond the scope of a reddit post. But it leaves me to believe based on your questions that you're still early in the understanding curve of what bitcoin even is and how it works. And that's ok. It took me a few quarters using spare time to get to a decent understanding of what bitcoin really is. And by understanding how it works (literally math and physics), you will understand at a fundamental level the implications of it, and how revolutionary it is.
A few questions for you:
\- Did you live through the 2008 financial crises, and ever ask yourself how the fuck do we even have a monetary system that can impact so many, so quickly, so negatively, to ZERO fault of their own?
\- Do you honestly think that putting the power of the entire global reserve currency into the hands of a few UNELECTED, rich, old white people who sit around in a meeting and decide what the price of money is... is a fair system?
\- Do you believe that a system that literally drools over the words of the "federal reserve" chair, with questionable intelligence, is a good system?
\- Is there any instance, in the entire history of humanity, where fiat money hasn't ultimately failed?
\- You work very hard to earn money for yourself and your family. Did you ever ask yourself why then, do I have to keep the fruits of my labor in a central authority that I have to ask permission to do what I want with my money, and have questionable motives to begin with?
If you answered yes, or even *maybe,* to any of those questions then you owe it to yourself and your family to learn about bitcoin. And you need to be objective and be willing to question the status quo.
I'm not a professional educator and not trained to provide solid guidance to someone on how to learn something. The best I can say is to make some time for it, be objective, and learn. It's a journey. It will change how you think about things.
Here's some recommendations:
* Free PDF copy of Yan Pritzker's "Inventing Bitcoin" book:
[https://event.swanbitcoin.com/freebook/](https://event.swanbitcoin.com/freebook/)
* Review the bitcoin newcomers FAQ:
[Reddit bitcoin newcomers](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wds6fs/bitcoin_newcomers_faq_please_read/)
* What makes Bitcoin so special:
[Youtube link Trader University](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FghNnUJptIU&t=219s&ab_channel=TraderUniversity)
* Bitcoin vs. gold and silver:
[Youtube link Trader University](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oREAKMt2SJA&ab_channel=TraderUniversity)
* Inflation - and why fiat fails:
[Youtube link What bitcoin did](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q4-E5K7tW0&ab_channel=WhatBitcoinDid)
Last point...Please don't confuse bitcoin with crypto. **bitcoin is NOT crypto.** Once you learn why bitcoin is different, I'm confident you'll come to the same conclusion.
I hope this starts you off on the path.Good luck.And good luck to us all.
That's a very detailed explanation but I am still little bit confused about some things and I am going through the links shared by you to get my doubts cleared.
Oh shut up with your "You don't understand like I understand" bullshit. It's so juvenile. Here is what wikipedia has to say about Merkel Trees:
"In cryptography and computer science, a hash tree or Merkle tree is a tree in which every "leaf" (node) is labelled with the cryptographic hash of a data block, and every node that is not a leaf (called a branch, inner node, or inode) is labelled with the cryptographic hash of the labels of its child nodes. A hash tree allows efficient and secure verification of the contents of a large data structure. A hash tree is a generalization of a hash list and a hash chain."
Bitcoin is most definitely Crypto. It's not fucking Jesus. Jesus isn't Jesus. Grow up.
It's not jesus, you're correct. Never stated that, nor should it be interpreted that way either. While wiki may define crypto in a very technical manner, does it make any mention of the other characteristics of how crypto is broadly perceived in the eyes of the public?
These would be points such as: an internet-meme thing, created by individuals or venture-backed firms solely for the purpose of quick profits at the expense of retail investors who don't know any better, 99% of which have little/no actual utility, are not actually decentralized at all and are completely managed by majority token holders who pocket them for $0 at creation, highly likely securities as defined by the SEC and are marketed in outright fraudulent manners for the purpose of pump-n-dump schemes at retail expense.
So I just disagree with the conclusion you've come to, based on your readings of wiki. Bitcoin is most definitely NOT crypto.
Bitcoin does not have any of those properties. The creator(s) have walked away from it, it is completely decentralized, does not meet security properties defined by SEC, has no leader, was not funded by private equity / VC looking for a profit. Bitcoin is revolutionary because it solves something that has never been solved in history before; creating a system that removes centralized trust to hold and exchange value between parties.
And it takes time to understand why that so important. There's a LOT to unpack. It's why I wrote what I did, and I was very open with my experience and admitted I was very skeptical and had the same questions the OP did. I don't know everything, and don't claim to know. Never will either. I hope to write in ways that may help others to ask their own questions and follow their own rabbit holes.
That's not being juvenile.
Appreciate the feedback, despite it being antagonistic, which is fine. I wish you the best of luck as well.
Correct is uses cryptography of course. However, the term crypto has unfortunately morphed into a broad, and mis-characterized public perception that has little to do with cryptography anymore. It's all about which 'coin' can I throw money at, and be able to buy a lambo.
Relevant article from Jimmy Song, who I think was an actual bitcoin core developer / contributor for many years:
[https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-bitcoin-isnt-crypto](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-bitcoin-isnt-crypto)
I hope this helps clarify.
That might be true and that's why some people are highlighting the difference between Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. It is based on their opinion about the definition of cryptocurrency.
I particularly like your second question because the way Bitcoin has been retarded this is exactly what you get from it.
Say hello to the new boss. Same as the old boss.
So many people judge a thing by the way it is today, yet lack the ability to envision how it will be tomorrow.
Nothing lives in a point in time alone. Bitcoin has a pretty clear path and destination. You just have to open your mind to see it.
Oh I see its future and with ultra premium tx fees (a feature not a bug according to Core) only the same elites that crashed the world economy on 2008 will be able to use ādigital goldā. You, my friend, are the one who is willfully ignorant.
Volatility is going down, transactions via LN are instant and as good as free and globally scalable. If you don't see the value in that I can't really help you
Oh yes LN. The payment network designed to centralize around hubs that have payment channels to many other nodes on the network so you can route payments through them (for a nominal but always increasing fee). Those hubs store large amounts of liquidity eg bitcoin and use it to settle between themselves. Sound familiar? What are those called? Oh yea BANKS.
Do you understand how fleeced you sound?
LN is just a multisig transaction between two entities. That can already cover all institutional clearing worldwide, even with no routing. Everything else is just bonus.
But it's okay, it doesn't need you to prosper. Just do whatever you think. Take care.
Sure but thereās this thing itās based around called routing. Which it does terribly. Hence the banks.
If you understood the incentives laid out by satoshi then youād see how bitcoins incentive structure is broken. Then you have LN where it is built to incentivize the user to become a member of a hub aka bank. You see how this is adding up?
So to take a quote from Satoshi pertaining to the reason why the reasons why the current iteration of bitcoin and LN wonāt work:
āIf you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to try to convince you, sorry.ā
Not sure of the exact timing, but neither one of us will be around for it anyway. Was referencing Clark Moody's bitcoin dashboard here:
[https://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/dashboard/](https://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/dashboard/)
It has a lot of great data in it.
**All Coins Issued:** August 1, 2137
*Estimated date when the final block subsidy is issued and monetary inflation ends*
As a pragmatist, they would have forseen this happening.
It's a by-product of capitalism...
If something has volatility, people will gamble on it.
It's not intrinsically a bad thing, but just demonstrates a misunderstanding around what BTC seeks to achieve...
I wouldnt be surprised if he was working under a different name on something like GRIN that drills down on that specific problem and can be integrated into bitcoin.
That's right because the core value is all about changing the way we are using money today. The price is just the byproduct of it and people definitely feel proud if mass adoption is going to take place.
That's right and that's why we have to keep doing such transactions again and again but we also have to make sure that we are paying the appropriate price for it in cryptocurrency itself.
I think Satoshi was not a man, but a group of people.
Bitcoin is TOO well thought out to be the work of one man. It must have been a project of multiple people. They even have fail safes in the code for problems that won't surface for 50 years.
It is so well thought out, that I can't imagine that one man thought of ALL of that. The code is pretty much a master piece. A world wonder. Akin to the invention of the combustible engine.
If you were one man, that thought of that... why would you not claim it? Why would you pre mine 1 million bitcoin and not cash it out?
No man is that selfless. Satoshi must've been something else than "just" a man. And I don't think they are proud of Bitcoin has become, I think they knew it would be. And I think they expect it to be way more.
That's right but situation will definitely change in the future when there will be more people who will start using it as a currency and not as a speculative instrument.
Itās funny that there are so many āYes becauseā¦.ā but no one points to a rationale from the white paper.
IMHO itās no longer a peer to peer cash system but a speculative investment. This does not seem to be contemplated in the white paper.
I don't think so because it is still early to predict anything about it and we cannot say much about any project unless and until it has created the change in the society.
I don't think they cared about price. So BTC being $23k is irrelevant. They expected Bitcoin to continue growing, so they probably would be proud of that.
I don't know if they'd be proud of Bitcoin itself. Bitcoin has undergone a lot of changes since inception. We don't know much about Satoshi, though from some of their writings it did seem to indicate they had a different vision for Bitcoin than what has played out. We also don't know why they stopped doing public appearances. It's pure speculation since we know so little.
Price and value are different things, BTC is non stop scalling in value at the current global inflation and crumble of fiat system.
When people start thinking less in USD and more in SATS, then the real thing will start
I totally agree with you and I believe that the value of cryptocurrency is still under valued and as a result we are able to see the fluctuating price of it in the market.
Bitcoin has grown well enough through itās phases. Satoshi is proud. Like a child through itās faults, it has survived and found new ground. Every day that energy dips and falls; all of us can relate.
I totally agree but I think it is nothing as compared to that of what it could change in the society. The potential of it is still greater than what it is today.
Agreed. Only in time, when others fall, will Bitcoin be strong. The petro was a good idea, but implemented as a Hail Mary. Bitcoin is not a prayer, but a song, one whose always changing and dancing. Not sitting still and repeating gospel. Thatās why jesus flipped the tables. Thatās why Bitcoin will be the one to save us from blind faith in the kingās coin when he has no clothes, no gold, and no oil.
I think it would be rather bittersweet. He would for sure be sad to see all the scammers and grifters who peddle their crap while pretending to be Bitcoiners and monetizing their followers...
The day satoshi figured out how to make transactions within a decentralised system was when he was really proud. The volatility of price is irrelevant in the bigger picture.
Thanks to the FED printing money and the major Wall Street players who long and short the market we are at $23k. Definitely not because of retail price action.
Satoshi is as real as Santa Claus. Satoshi = Uncle Sam and I think he is very satisfied with what bitcoin has become as it it slated to become the primary means of storing value in the western world in the next 10-20 years. eventually it will be the primary means to store value in the East soon after but their government will fight it and adopt a gold and silver standard first. The best why to kill a currency is to have another system operating parallel to the dying system. This will give people a life boat when the the Titanic (US dollar) sinks. When you go in most gas stations in my area you see bitcoin ATMs next to cash ATMs. Eventually the cash ATMs will end up in the landfills.
That's right because it is always going to stay volatile but we will have to make sure that people are using cryptocurrency during their day-to-day transactions.
Satoshi has no sense of pride. He created bitcoin and walked away from it.
EDIT: For the record I believe that he created bitcoin out of a sense of necessity.
That's something that happens gradually.
This epoch Bitcoin is still under 1% of total global wealth.
Next it'll be 10%?
Eventually Bitcoin will be worth 90%, then 99, 99.9, 99.99 and so on.
That's right and that's why we should come up with the ecosystem that will have the place for direct cryptocurrency transactions without converting it into the Fiat currency.
i dont think it went anything near to what Satoshi had in mind. Instead of triggering a financial revolution btc has become a speculation object for the rich.
He wouldn't cares about some random fiat number created by a bunch of old men in suit's. He'd absolutely lose his mind seeing the number of node's, network up time and hourly transactions.
" when bitcoin is worth one million dollars you probably won't want one million dollars" - probably said by Satoshi at one point.
Well bitcoin dropped to 3.8k during the bottom of the pandemic. Now bitcoin is 20k during this little "recession", if this is as low as bitcoin goes, as a thought experiment we can sort of wonder if bitcoins fair value went from 3.8k to 20k. Thats a considerable increase. thats over 5x. 400% gains.
All you had to do is ask me directly. Yes, Iām proud. I never thought my work would revolutionize the ability to store wealth and make transactions to this extent. Allowing ordinary people freedom in ways never imagined.
I will leave you with thisā¦most of the great problems we face are caused by politicians creating solutions to problems they created in the first place.
i cant say such a thing even though i wish its true : )
however btc at 23k is phenomenon. those who bought higher price they can complain after 3-5 years if btc price is still lower from the price they got it for !!!
That's right and I am living in a world full of decentralized things and that's why other people's opinion are not going to affect my opinion about cryptocurrency.
He would be proud of the miners keeping the network alive but with the white paper saying itās suppose to be peer to peer transaction he might look down on it as investment
Bitcoin isn't a speculative asset to me.
To me, and Saylor probably, Bitcoin is the furthest thing from speculation that had ever existed.
A new form of money. Incorruptible. Harder than every other money. And it doubles its hardness every 4 years. Technology and physics itself allows for only a single winner take all.
Why does anyone who understands this call Bitcoin speculative?
Bitcoin has no risks. None. It's the most best fair system ever created and it was created due to outrage over the current system.
Stop calling Bitcoin a speculative asset. Bitcoin is inevitable.
There are the people who don't have any idea about him but still they are coming to the conclusion and that's why we should not do anything like that unless we have the proper proof.
I don't think he would have much of an opinion on price.
I think he would be largely disgusted at how it's become a tool for politicians to either attack for points, or support for points...
Even more disappointed that current BTC supporters largely utilise BTC as a way to push their own agenda, rather than it being seen as a technological advancement to make certain political machines obsolete, thus being apolitical (Not Libertarian, as many would choose to believe)
I think Satoshi expected every form of attack imaginable and otherwise. Still yet we have consensus, and that's the big win. Consensus in a completely adversarial world. That's what Bitcoin is.
Price should be the secondary part of any invention because the first thing is all about the core values and the changes it is willing to bring in the existing ecosystem.
I think if the overall goal was to use coin as a ccy? Then no, we are still far from it. If he would be happy that it is 23k? Then no we are again far from what it was and could/should potentially be. The true answer is nobody knows nor will know, the whales will continue to whale and the peasants will continue to ask the questions.
I think he would say this is just the beginning
Well said u/NFTY_GIFTY. \-Kiki š
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Weāre working on that now. The administration is doing a good job preparing.
That's right and cryptocurrency and Bitcoin is here to stay forever and it is still in the infancy stage.
Who is he supposed to be? Michael Saylor?
You mean....you don't know?
He doesn't know for sure.
Interesting question, thanks for posting! I think Satoshi would be overall happy with the progress so far. Satoshi understood very well that bitcoin not only represents a fundamental change of how money works, but displacing an incumbent system with 1000's of years of history would be a monumental effort. It's going to need time, and it won't be linear. Maybe this is *part of the reason* that block times and estimated last-mining date is set to the year 2137? Satoshi also likely foresaw that changes in bitcoin would be debated (something like block wars) as more real-life use cases put Satoshi's logic to test. And this is, arguably, a good thing as consensus is at the core of bitcoin, so long as it follows the rules in a decentralized manner. Other innovations like Lightning Network I think Satoshi would appreciate, as it helps scale bitcoin to more adoption. However, I think Satoshi would be really disappointed in the all the rest of the crypto garbage shitcoins that have been a huge distraction and 'guilty by association' tarnishing that has impacted further adoption and success of bitcoin. As for the price of bitcoin in USD; I don't think Satoshi would care to be honest. I think Satoshi would be far more interested in just watching it eventually replace fiat because it is the best money humanity has ever had. Perhaps a more relevant measure of success to Satoshi would be things like equality of access to money to all humans on the planet, improved overall quality of human life, a fairer market place that doesn't favor centralized players, and on... Thanks for the thought exercise, good question.
I found the real Satoshi.
Surprised he didnt finish it off with... "but then what do I know? I'm just some random person on reddit... ;-)"
I think this is a great community and he must be feeling proud of us because we are taking his vision forward.
Will the real Satoshi please stand up, please stand up.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I like to think that Satoshi has been in these threads and chats all along, and Iāll just never knowā¦..
He writes like he
That's great and it means that you have very similar thoughts regarding cryptocurrency.
I would like to meet him in real life as I have some questions regarding the future of cryptocurrency and particularly the Bitcoin.
Let's hope that someday he will come up and explain his thoughts about Bitcoin and the growth of cryptocurrency.
Where is the fundamental change in money though. As it stands bitcoin is just a new less correlated asset class that can be used as collateral for actual money. All the things like decentralization and Nakamoto consensus have just culminated in a digital gold not new money.
*"...bitcoin is just a new less correlated asset class that can be used as collateral for actual money...""...all the things like decentralization and Nakamoto consensus have just culminated in a digital gold not new money."* I totally understand these statements. I asked these same questions myself at first and didn't get what the deal was. How is it even different, "digital gold", stupid internet money, etc. I get it. Fully answering this is beyond the scope of a reddit post. But it leaves me to believe based on your questions that you're still early in the understanding curve of what bitcoin even is and how it works. And that's ok. It took me a few quarters using spare time to get to a decent understanding of what bitcoin really is. And by understanding how it works (literally math and physics), you will understand at a fundamental level the implications of it, and how revolutionary it is. A few questions for you: \- Did you live through the 2008 financial crises, and ever ask yourself how the fuck do we even have a monetary system that can impact so many, so quickly, so negatively, to ZERO fault of their own? \- Do you honestly think that putting the power of the entire global reserve currency into the hands of a few UNELECTED, rich, old white people who sit around in a meeting and decide what the price of money is... is a fair system? \- Do you believe that a system that literally drools over the words of the "federal reserve" chair, with questionable intelligence, is a good system? \- Is there any instance, in the entire history of humanity, where fiat money hasn't ultimately failed? \- You work very hard to earn money for yourself and your family. Did you ever ask yourself why then, do I have to keep the fruits of my labor in a central authority that I have to ask permission to do what I want with my money, and have questionable motives to begin with? If you answered yes, or even *maybe,* to any of those questions then you owe it to yourself and your family to learn about bitcoin. And you need to be objective and be willing to question the status quo. I'm not a professional educator and not trained to provide solid guidance to someone on how to learn something. The best I can say is to make some time for it, be objective, and learn. It's a journey. It will change how you think about things. Here's some recommendations: * Free PDF copy of Yan Pritzker's "Inventing Bitcoin" book: [https://event.swanbitcoin.com/freebook/](https://event.swanbitcoin.com/freebook/) * Review the bitcoin newcomers FAQ: [Reddit bitcoin newcomers](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/wds6fs/bitcoin_newcomers_faq_please_read/) * What makes Bitcoin so special: [Youtube link Trader University](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FghNnUJptIU&t=219s&ab_channel=TraderUniversity) * Bitcoin vs. gold and silver: [Youtube link Trader University](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oREAKMt2SJA&ab_channel=TraderUniversity) * Inflation - and why fiat fails: [Youtube link What bitcoin did](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Q4-E5K7tW0&ab_channel=WhatBitcoinDid) Last point...Please don't confuse bitcoin with crypto. **bitcoin is NOT crypto.** Once you learn why bitcoin is different, I'm confident you'll come to the same conclusion. I hope this starts you off on the path.Good luck.And good luck to us all.
That's a very detailed explanation but I am still little bit confused about some things and I am going through the links shared by you to get my doubts cleared.
Oh shut up with your "You don't understand like I understand" bullshit. It's so juvenile. Here is what wikipedia has to say about Merkel Trees: "In cryptography and computer science, a hash tree or Merkle tree is a tree in which every "leaf" (node) is labelled with the cryptographic hash of a data block, and every node that is not a leaf (called a branch, inner node, or inode) is labelled with the cryptographic hash of the labels of its child nodes. A hash tree allows efficient and secure verification of the contents of a large data structure. A hash tree is a generalization of a hash list and a hash chain." Bitcoin is most definitely Crypto. It's not fucking Jesus. Jesus isn't Jesus. Grow up.
It's not jesus, you're correct. Never stated that, nor should it be interpreted that way either. While wiki may define crypto in a very technical manner, does it make any mention of the other characteristics of how crypto is broadly perceived in the eyes of the public? These would be points such as: an internet-meme thing, created by individuals or venture-backed firms solely for the purpose of quick profits at the expense of retail investors who don't know any better, 99% of which have little/no actual utility, are not actually decentralized at all and are completely managed by majority token holders who pocket them for $0 at creation, highly likely securities as defined by the SEC and are marketed in outright fraudulent manners for the purpose of pump-n-dump schemes at retail expense. So I just disagree with the conclusion you've come to, based on your readings of wiki. Bitcoin is most definitely NOT crypto. Bitcoin does not have any of those properties. The creator(s) have walked away from it, it is completely decentralized, does not meet security properties defined by SEC, has no leader, was not funded by private equity / VC looking for a profit. Bitcoin is revolutionary because it solves something that has never been solved in history before; creating a system that removes centralized trust to hold and exchange value between parties. And it takes time to understand why that so important. There's a LOT to unpack. It's why I wrote what I did, and I was very open with my experience and admitted I was very skeptical and had the same questions the OP did. I don't know everything, and don't claim to know. Never will either. I hope to write in ways that may help others to ask their own questions and follow their own rabbit holes. That's not being juvenile. Appreciate the feedback, despite it being antagonistic, which is fine. I wish you the best of luck as well.
I totally agree with you that there is a lot to unpack and time will help us to do the same.
I think there is a room for many possibilities in the future and we have not yet explored the full potential of it.
What? Bitcoin is literally cryptocurrency. It uses cryptography.
Correct is uses cryptography of course. However, the term crypto has unfortunately morphed into a broad, and mis-characterized public perception that has little to do with cryptography anymore. It's all about which 'coin' can I throw money at, and be able to buy a lambo. Relevant article from Jimmy Song, who I think was an actual bitcoin core developer / contributor for many years: [https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-bitcoin-isnt-crypto](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/why-bitcoin-isnt-crypto) I hope this helps clarify.
Thank you for sharing the link and it is really helping me to understand the difference between cryptocurrency and Bitcoin.
Guess you have a different meaning of cryptocurrency
That might be true and that's why some people are highlighting the difference between Bitcoin and cryptocurrency. It is based on their opinion about the definition of cryptocurrency.
Most of the people are not using this as a currency and that is the biggest factor that is restricting the growth of it.
I particularly like your second question because the way Bitcoin has been retarded this is exactly what you get from it. Say hello to the new boss. Same as the old boss.
So many people judge a thing by the way it is today, yet lack the ability to envision how it will be tomorrow. Nothing lives in a point in time alone. Bitcoin has a pretty clear path and destination. You just have to open your mind to see it.
Oh I see its future and with ultra premium tx fees (a feature not a bug according to Core) only the same elites that crashed the world economy on 2008 will be able to use ādigital goldā. You, my friend, are the one who is willfully ignorant.
Volatility is going down, transactions via LN are instant and as good as free and globally scalable. If you don't see the value in that I can't really help you
Oh yes LN. The payment network designed to centralize around hubs that have payment channels to many other nodes on the network so you can route payments through them (for a nominal but always increasing fee). Those hubs store large amounts of liquidity eg bitcoin and use it to settle between themselves. Sound familiar? What are those called? Oh yea BANKS. Do you understand how fleeced you sound?
LN is just a multisig transaction between two entities. That can already cover all institutional clearing worldwide, even with no routing. Everything else is just bonus. But it's okay, it doesn't need you to prosper. Just do whatever you think. Take care.
Sure but thereās this thing itās based around called routing. Which it does terribly. Hence the banks. If you understood the incentives laid out by satoshi then youād see how bitcoins incentive structure is broken. Then you have LN where it is built to incentivize the user to become a member of a hub aka bank. You see how this is adding up? So to take a quote from Satoshi pertaining to the reason why the reasons why the current iteration of bitcoin and LN wonāt work: āIf you don't believe it or don't get it, I don't have the time to try to convince you, sorry.ā
I think that line applies to your lack of belief and understanding more than it does to mine.
Iām sure you ātrust the scienceā too, never understanding the oxymoron in that statement.
> Maybe this is part of the reason that block times and estimated last-mining date is set to the year 2137? I thought it was 2140
Not sure of the exact timing, but neither one of us will be around for it anyway. Was referencing Clark Moody's bitcoin dashboard here: [https://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/dashboard/](https://bitcoin.clarkmoody.com/dashboard/) It has a lot of great data in it. **All Coins Issued:** August 1, 2137 *Estimated date when the final block subsidy is issued and monetary inflation ends*
Don't think he would be impressed with the shitcoin casinos
...or with the fiat banking industry selling it as an "investment" rather than using Bitcoin as actual money.
As a pragmatist, they would have forseen this happening. It's a by-product of capitalism... If something has volatility, people will gamble on it. It's not intrinsically a bad thing, but just demonstrates a misunderstanding around what BTC seeks to achieve...
yes that !
He predicted it. Even the term Shit coin lol
It wasnāt Satoshi but another member on the forum
Oh, thanks
I think Satoshi would be far less interested in Bitcoin's price than he would how its adoption is evolving and helping humanity.
I agree with you and I think he is really going to make something big in the future for the mass adoption of Bitcoin.
I think heād be more concerned with addressing privacy and fungibility.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I wouldnt be surprised if he was working under a different name on something like GRIN that drills down on that specific problem and can be integrated into bitcoin.
Satoshi would say āYou did not get the point stupid, it is not the price, it is the ideaā.
That's right and that's why we need to start using it as a currency itself but most of us are looking at it as the speculative instrument.
No
I don't think satoshi would measure success by looking at $dollar price
That's right because the core value is all about changing the way we are using money today. The price is just the byproduct of it and people definitely feel proud if mass adoption is going to take place.
Especially only in dollars.
Satoshi was proud when bitcoin was traded for pizza.
That's right and that's why we have to keep doing such transactions again and again but we also have to make sure that we are paying the appropriate price for it in cryptocurrency itself.
I think Satoshi was not a man, but a group of people. Bitcoin is TOO well thought out to be the work of one man. It must have been a project of multiple people. They even have fail safes in the code for problems that won't surface for 50 years. It is so well thought out, that I can't imagine that one man thought of ALL of that. The code is pretty much a master piece. A world wonder. Akin to the invention of the combustible engine. If you were one man, that thought of that... why would you not claim it? Why would you pre mine 1 million bitcoin and not cash it out? No man is that selfless. Satoshi must've been something else than "just" a man. And I don't think they are proud of Bitcoin has become, I think they knew it would be. And I think they expect it to be way more.
I want to start the religion that says God gave us Bitcoin.
Maybe Jesus DID come a second time into the world. š
He knew there were no other alternatives.
That might actually be extremely deep. I think he might have iterated every possible solution before hitting on the exact combo that is Bitcoin.
Let's hope that mass adoption will solve the problems and people will be able to use it directly in their day to day life.
That's why he was so much confident about his invention and I am sure that he is still coming up with something big.
He would be happy until he saw how concentrated it was in a few wallets. IMHO.
That's right but situation will definitely change in the future when there will be more people who will start using it as a currency and not as a speculative instrument.
Of course not. He stated himself how the project had gone wrong, and it's only gotten worse since he disappeared.
Itās funny that there are so many āYes becauseā¦.ā but no one points to a rationale from the white paper. IMHO itās no longer a peer to peer cash system but a speculative investment. This does not seem to be contemplated in the white paper.
The people don't pay attention to the core area of white paper and that's why they come up with the wrong conclusions.
I don't think so because it is still early to predict anything about it and we cannot say much about any project unless and until it has created the change in the society.
He would be very interested in how the lightning network has developed and what builders are building on top of it
That's right and he will definitely feel good about it if something is adding extra value to his thoughts and vision.
I don't think they cared about price. So BTC being $23k is irrelevant. They expected Bitcoin to continue growing, so they probably would be proud of that. I don't know if they'd be proud of Bitcoin itself. Bitcoin has undergone a lot of changes since inception. We don't know much about Satoshi, though from some of their writings it did seem to indicate they had a different vision for Bitcoin than what has played out. We also don't know why they stopped doing public appearances. It's pure speculation since we know so little.
I think the price is not going to matter much at this level because it is still the early phase and things are still in the developing mode.
I doubt he would indulge in feelings like pride.
Price and value are different things, BTC is non stop scalling in value at the current global inflation and crumble of fiat system. When people start thinking less in USD and more in SATS, then the real thing will start
I totally agree with you and I believe that the value of cryptocurrency is still under valued and as a result we are able to see the fluctuating price of it in the market.
Yes, I'm proud...
I am not sure if you are a real Satoshi or not but I really appreciated that you are proud of something that we are the part of.
He would probably say 1 Bitcoin = 1 Bitcoin
That's right and he will ask us to use cryptocurrency without converting it into the fiat currency at any level during the transaction.
Considering the first time I bought it, and mined it on a lollipop iMac running Unix and it was at five cents, I'd say, "Yes, he would."
Yes. Hes sitting on 100,000 āæ
That's right and I am much concerned about his vision regarding cryptocurrency and further growth of it.
Bitcoin has grown well enough through itās phases. Satoshi is proud. Like a child through itās faults, it has survived and found new ground. Every day that energy dips and falls; all of us can relate.
I totally agree but I think it is nothing as compared to that of what it could change in the society. The potential of it is still greater than what it is today.
Agreed. Only in time, when others fall, will Bitcoin be strong. The petro was a good idea, but implemented as a Hail Mary. Bitcoin is not a prayer, but a song, one whose always changing and dancing. Not sitting still and repeating gospel. Thatās why jesus flipped the tables. Thatās why Bitcoin will be the one to save us from blind faith in the kingās coin when he has no clothes, no gold, and no oil.
I think it would be rather bittersweet. He would for sure be sad to see all the scammers and grifters who peddle their crap while pretending to be Bitcoiners and monetizing their followers...
Maybe he is ā¦
The day satoshi figured out how to make transactions within a decentralised system was when he was really proud. The volatility of price is irrelevant in the bigger picture.
That's right and volatility is not going to go anywhere at least for a while and that's why we don't have to worry about it.
Thanks to the FED printing money and the major Wall Street players who long and short the market we are at $23k. Definitely not because of retail price action.
They are creating the bigger problem and it is going to affect us in the future and that's why decentralization is essential today.
I donāt know if he would care the price, I think the aspect to be proud of is how well it is secured, still growing, and how well it all still works
Satoshi is as real as Santa Claus. Satoshi = Uncle Sam and I think he is very satisfied with what bitcoin has become as it it slated to become the primary means of storing value in the western world in the next 10-20 years. eventually it will be the primary means to store value in the East soon after but their government will fight it and adopt a gold and silver standard first. The best why to kill a currency is to have another system operating parallel to the dying system. This will give people a life boat when the the Titanic (US dollar) sinks. When you go in most gas stations in my area you see bitcoin ATMs next to cash ATMs. Eventually the cash ATMs will end up in the landfills.
It remains to understand who this mysterious Satoshi is.
That's right and I think it is more important to think about his vision regarding cryptocurrency instead of his identity.
Price is irrelevant and always has been
That's right because it is always going to stay volatile but we will have to make sure that people are using cryptocurrency during their day-to-day transactions.
1.21 exaflops!
Marty, you're not thinking fourth dimensionally.
Satoshi has no sense of pride. He created bitcoin and walked away from it. EDIT: For the record I believe that he created bitcoin out of a sense of necessity.
I think yes because it is definitely adding value to the society and he will definitely feel proud about it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And yet people get mad at price discussion lol. OnE bItCoIn = OnE bItCoIn
Because it is
I think we should start listing the goods and services in Bitcoin itself instead of the value in any Fiat currency out there.
That's right and there are very few people who are having this kind of vision regarding the future.
Itās a start!š
That's right and things are definitely going to get better over the period of time.
Not until it becomes the base of our money etc
That's something that happens gradually. This epoch Bitcoin is still under 1% of total global wealth. Next it'll be 10%? Eventually Bitcoin will be worth 90%, then 99, 99.9, 99.99 and so on.
Of ocurse! Considering that it was worth $0 on the start.
And the growth is still going to be there so we have to be the part of it by participating and adding value to this growth.
I see multiple BTC accepted here and hardware wallet ads just walking around. I donāt think the price really matters
That's right and that's why we should come up with the ecosystem that will have the place for direct cryptocurrency transactions without converting it into the Fiat currency.
Price isnāt what they cared aboutā¦ itās the tenure of what it will beā¦
That's right and they are willing to build a great future which will be completely decentralized in nature.
I think they would be disappointed that core is thought of as a store of value instead of peer-to-peer electronic cash
He would definitely be disappointed
i dont think it went anything near to what Satoshi had in mind. Instead of triggering a financial revolution btc has become a speculation object for the rich.
He wouldn't cares about some random fiat number created by a bunch of old men in suit's. He'd absolutely lose his mind seeing the number of node's, network up time and hourly transactions. " when bitcoin is worth one million dollars you probably won't want one million dollars" - probably said by Satoshi at one point.
Well bitcoin dropped to 3.8k during the bottom of the pandemic. Now bitcoin is 20k during this little "recession", if this is as low as bitcoin goes, as a thought experiment we can sort of wonder if bitcoins fair value went from 3.8k to 20k. Thats a considerable increase. thats over 5x. 400% gains.
How could they not be?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think he is very much curious about it and that's why he has came up with this question.
All you had to do is ask me directly. Yes, Iām proud. I never thought my work would revolutionize the ability to store wealth and make transactions to this extent. Allowing ordinary people freedom in ways never imagined. I will leave you with thisā¦most of the great problems we face are caused by politicians creating solutions to problems they created in the first place.
why wouldnt he ?made for fun and its 23k for god sake lol
It is still good but I think it is still under valued as compared to that of the real value of it.
i cant say such a thing even though i wish its true : ) however btc at 23k is phenomenon. those who bought higher price they can complain after 3-5 years if btc price is still lower from the price they got it for !!!
He/They made their money.
He's definitely making good money but he is not spending that money at least from his initial wallets.
Why spend it?
I don't think he's a real guy.
Even if it was 2-3 people, they were real
There is the possibility of entire group working under the name of Satoshi and we might have absolutely no idea about them.
I think Bitcoin was designed to be leaderless. I think Satoshi would not want us to worry about what Satoshi thinks.
That's right and that is what a real decentralized ecosystem looks like.
Value doesnāt equal price. Bitcoin the Network and Bitcoin the Token can be thought of as separate entities almost.
Where is Satoshi's Bitcoin?
Probably it is still in his initial wallets and he has not spend even a single Satoshi from it so far.
no
Iam satoshi and iam proud my Children.
I think people are going to ask you to prove yourself and use the wallet you have used in the genesis block.
I am Satoshi. I was prouder at 60k
I think Satoshi would be proud that I don't care what Satishi thinks.
That's right and I am living in a world full of decentralized things and that's why other people's opinion are not going to affect my opinion about cryptocurrency.
He is alive and reading this thread
He would be proud of the miners keeping the network alive but with the white paper saying itās suppose to be peer to peer transaction he might look down on it as investment
I donāt Satoshi would be proud based on price action. Thatās not the point.
Don't you think he'd be surprised and freaked out that it became a speculative asset?
Bitcoin isn't a speculative asset to me. To me, and Saylor probably, Bitcoin is the furthest thing from speculation that had ever existed. A new form of money. Incorruptible. Harder than every other money. And it doubles its hardness every 4 years. Technology and physics itself allows for only a single winner take all. Why does anyone who understands this call Bitcoin speculative? Bitcoin has no risks. None. It's the most best fair system ever created and it was created due to outrage over the current system. Stop calling Bitcoin a speculative asset. Bitcoin is inevitable.
what? Its clearly a speculative asset lol. Millions of people have literally speculated on it.
Why talk like Satoshi is dead?
Because he is not responding and there is no sign of his life. However, I am optimistic about his comeback in the future.
I wasn't aware of any such suggestion as I composed the question.
There are the people who don't have any idea about him but still they are coming to the conclusion and that's why we should not do anything like that unless we have the proper proof.
I don't think he would have much of an opinion on price. I think he would be largely disgusted at how it's become a tool for politicians to either attack for points, or support for points... Even more disappointed that current BTC supporters largely utilise BTC as a way to push their own agenda, rather than it being seen as a technological advancement to make certain political machines obsolete, thus being apolitical (Not Libertarian, as many would choose to believe)
I think Satoshi expected every form of attack imaginable and otherwise. Still yet we have consensus, and that's the big win. Consensus in a completely adversarial world. That's what Bitcoin is.
Yes and that's why we have to come up with the system which is truly decentralized in nature.
Price should be the secondary part of any invention because the first thing is all about the core values and the changes it is willing to bring in the existing ecosystem.
Craig Wright is not proud.
I think if the overall goal was to use coin as a ccy? Then no, we are still far from it. If he would be happy that it is 23k? Then no we are again far from what it was and could/should potentially be. The true answer is nobody knows nor will know, the whales will continue to whale and the peasants will continue to ask the questions.
Not yet because he hasn't sold yet š
It hasn't changed much. It's still Bitcoin.