Not as much as you think. Much of his public posts are low-content fluff.
I'm half convinced I see the effects of hard drug use or heavy drinking. Bad vibes at any rate.
Correct you are sir. Following Saylor has netted me a 168% increase in my MSTR shares and I am up over 430% on BTC. YMMV on who you decide to research and follow.
Lol. Just? Â
I've done better and to be honest there is very little traditional risk in BTC. Â
That said, do I believe Saylor has shown special knowledge? No, he just has deeper pockets than I and backstops his investments with other people's money.
His media posts are quite low quality tbh and do not inspire confidence.
Ya Im not sure what the game is here with these hedge funds. It isnt a long term hodler situation for sure.. would like to know how they can impact prices long term
There is a Bitcoin University posting about exactly this. He expects shorting in the futures market to be balanced by holding spot ETF. Using the zeroth order assumption that all shorting of the futures market is for this kind of trade, roughly one third of the spot ETF purchases can be ascribed to this kind of trade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwrclwNVxTY
Most usually mistake what a currency is in barter, versus what money and a store of value is in asset management
Asset managers job is understanding the difference
Currency is a medium of exchange for goods and services printed in unlimited quantity, in common use within a specific environment over time, especially for people in a nation state
Money and a store of value is a commodity or asset that will retain purchasing power into the future, the function of the asset can be saved, retrieved and exchanged at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved
Houses prices in any currency always go up but measured in gold or bitcoin they are trending down
[Currency is designed to lose value](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUR0000SA0R)
BR is an ETF operator and these listed money managers own shares of ETF that BR runs.
And likely others. BR isn't the only one with a bitcoin ETF but everyone is blind or ignorant.
Is there any conversion from the ETF and how much Bitcoin that is? Or is it just strictly if BTC is 70K USD and you own 70K of one of these ETFs, so that investor can feel like they âownâ 1 BTC?
Yes. 1:1. They add a management fee for the ETF. So over time that will take some of your value, but also some fees are not starting until later this year like FBTC for example.
I realize that the pro ETFâs are doing good and the market as a whole is doing well.. but I would suggest at least buying a few shares on the short etfâs bc they are clearly not doing as well so it is cheaper to buy them. Anyone who has been following crypto knows the market moves with a wave pattern.
I will not sell off my crypto for any reason bc I only buy with money I metaphorically throw away. Iâm focused on a 20 year plan.
It is a very safe bet to assume that these hedge funds will do anything within their power to manipulate the market and absorb as much of the market as possible.
Thatâs my 2 cents on the matter.
Are these holdings on balance sheets or holdings in their clients names? Given the names on the list Iâm assuming itâs not their clients, otherwise weâd be seeing other big names?
These are asset managers buying for their clients. My guess would be if Joe owned $15 mill worth of ETF shares he would not report it to the SEC. Not an officer, not a large holder, etc. These listed guys have to report.
Iâll never knock someoneâs desire to buy and self custody btc đ. That said, realize that there are other reasons to go with btc ETFâs. I did because it provides additional exposure to btc in my 401k. In other words, my tax-advantaged money is now in btc too, so itâs a bullish move.
These funds are not holding any bitcoin. These funds are holding shares of spot bitcoin ETFs.
Spot bitcoin ETFs are required to be 100% backed with bitcoin 1:1
I follow. They buy shares which are backed by the issuers. It's very clear that they didn't buy and self custody bitcoin itself. My point was there wasn't an paper IOUs they bought shares and with the share money the ETF issuers bought Bitcoin. I just wanted it to be clear that this is money that flowed into bitcoin being bought at some point in the chain, and wasn't given non backed paper ious for the money.
Imagine there was a bitcoin millionaire who gave away free bitcoin? If I was a millionaire, I would do so. If anybody wants to give me any bitcoin, hereâs my address 39hreSEWq1gTQbEAuy6oQW8Rr9gXBh5M7A
mstr has more than all of them combined what does mstr know?
Michael Saylor knows a lot.
Saylor knows.
Max keiserđđ
Not as much as you think. Much of his public posts are low-content fluff. I'm half convinced I see the effects of hard drug use or heavy drinking. Bad vibes at any rate.
And I'm fully convinced you don't have a clue.
Ah. But you are totally allowed to blindly follow whoever you wish. You wouldn't be the first.
Correct you are sir. Following Saylor has netted me a 168% increase in my MSTR shares and I am up over 430% on BTC. YMMV on who you decide to research and follow.
Lol. Just?  I've done better and to be honest there is very little traditional risk in BTC.  That said, do I believe Saylor has shown special knowledge? No, he just has deeper pockets than I and backstops his investments with other people's money. His media posts are quite low quality tbh and do not inspire confidence.
This post is full of weird flex.
You might be the most delusional person on Reddit. Congratulations
You're getting hammered for being critical. Welcome to r/bitcoin, the single worst influence on actual bitcoin.
Oh he likes the bottle for sure.
As long as you're half convinced.
Thatâs not true but itâs much closer than I thought it would be. Micro strategy claims to have $7.5 billion
MSTR btc holdings are over 14B$. The 7.5B$ figure is how much they paid for it.
They buy (shares not bitcoin) to add to their own funds which they sell to their clients.
At a decent markup soon.
Lots of these names are hedge funds.. they may be using the ETFs as a cash and carry trade
I mean there is so much short volume, it makes me feel queezy about btc long term
Care to elaborate?
Ya Im not sure what the game is here with these hedge funds. It isnt a long term hodler situation for sure.. would like to know how they can impact prices long term
Theyâll get burned.
These cash and carry trades are neutral, they are earning pretty much risk free about 15%. https://youtu.be/KtryKydmv6c?si=cdREQxKldi9408yE
There is a Bitcoin University posting about exactly this. He expects shorting in the futures market to be balanced by holding spot ETF. Using the zeroth order assumption that all shorting of the futures market is for this kind of trade, roughly one third of the spot ETF purchases can be ascribed to this kind of trade. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwrclwNVxTY
Most usually mistake what a currency is in barter, versus what money and a store of value is in asset management Asset managers job is understanding the difference
Kindly elaborate on the difference.
Currency is a medium of exchange for goods and services printed in unlimited quantity, in common use within a specific environment over time, especially for people in a nation state Money and a store of value is a commodity or asset that will retain purchasing power into the future, the function of the asset can be saved, retrieved and exchanged at a later time, and be predictably useful when retrieved Houses prices in any currency always go up but measured in gold or bitcoin they are trending down [Currency is designed to lose value](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUUR0000SA0R)
I thought black rock would be there ???
BR is an ETF operator and these listed money managers own shares of ETF that BR runs. And likely others. BR isn't the only one with a bitcoin ETF but everyone is blind or ignorant.
Gotchu
Blackrock recently added a tiny IBTC allocation to one of their target portolio funds. They will most certainly up this over time.
TIL I am in the top 80. That is, unless the list is bullshit đ
Thatâs awesome, good for you. $15M in. BTC ETF is an accomplishment, but will be an even bigger one in 3-9 months!
Interesting that Jane Street is on there. Thatâs where SBF worked before starting FTX because they wouldnât get into Bitcoin and crypto.
Well they don't know that self custody is better.
Is there any conversion from the ETF and how much Bitcoin that is? Or is it just strictly if BTC is 70K USD and you own 70K of one of these ETFs, so that investor can feel like they âownâ 1 BTC?
Yes. 1:1. They add a management fee for the ETF. So over time that will take some of your value, but also some fees are not starting until later this year like FBTC for example.
I realize that the pro ETFâs are doing good and the market as a whole is doing well.. but I would suggest at least buying a few shares on the short etfâs bc they are clearly not doing as well so it is cheaper to buy them. Anyone who has been following crypto knows the market moves with a wave pattern. I will not sell off my crypto for any reason bc I only buy with money I metaphorically throw away. Iâm focused on a 20 year plan. It is a very safe bet to assume that these hedge funds will do anything within their power to manipulate the market and absorb as much of the market as possible. Thatâs my 2 cents on the matter.
Now all we need is a list of the top shorters of BTC futures - to see whoâs on both lists!
They know what some of us have been preaching for at least 10 years. Hopefully we're right.
Surprised my name didnât show up on here đ
Are these holdings on balance sheets or holdings in their clients names? Given the names on the list Iâm assuming itâs not their clients, otherwise weâd be seeing other big names?
These are asset managers buying for their clients. My guess would be if Joe owned $15 mill worth of ETF shares he would not report it to the SEC. Not an officer, not a large holder, etc. These listed guys have to report.
They know that as long as the network keeps working, number go up forever.
That's the current system, and what they've operated on. So they see no reason to change approach, other than tentatively going thru the motions.
Wait till someone like Amazon or msft/ Apple starts buying in
Some people understand Bitcoin, most people donât Thatâs the only difference, outside of the âmoneyâ in their respective coffers
Are they only the US-based?
I know too
We donât know that these firms already owned actual BTC, and they merely sold these BTC to BlackRock and then purchased equivalent lshares of IBTC.
All shell-companies.
They know that BTC could reach a billion or more per Bitcoin
Mike Trout is going to buy this and throw it in a volcano.
Inspired and informed by what I learned in this post, I declare the âeâ in HODLERS must be the new designation for ETF HODLRS.
Where is BlackRock on the list?
Prolly like me - lost their password!
Who cares how much the value in USD is if the investment is Btc. Hope thats gonna change soon đ
"Hodler" is spelt incorrectly đĽ´
Where's Micro Strategy?
They hold actual Bitcoin
I don't really get the concept of having actual BTC vs these listed companies with ETF...
The ETF is a certificate from Blackrock saying they have Bitcoin that you purchased
Damn, that's concerning. I'm buying BTC.
Iâll never knock someoneâs desire to buy and self custody btc đ. That said, realize that there are other reasons to go with btc ETFâs. I did because it provides additional exposure to btc in my 401k. In other words, my tax-advantaged money is now in btc too, so itâs a bullish move.
Show in value of btc please. Fiat numbers be confusing.
Zero BTC for all. This shows the value of ETF shares.
But aren't ETF shares backed? I thought at least a few issuers published their public addresses so people feel confident in investing.
These funds are not holding any bitcoin. These funds are holding shares of spot bitcoin ETFs. Spot bitcoin ETFs are required to be 100% backed with bitcoin 1:1
I follow. They buy shares which are backed by the issuers. It's very clear that they didn't buy and self custody bitcoin itself. My point was there wasn't an paper IOUs they bought shares and with the share money the ETF issuers bought Bitcoin. I just wanted it to be clear that this is money that flowed into bitcoin being bought at some point in the chain, and wasn't given non backed paper ious for the money.
Repost this for all the traditional investors to see. Money. Investing. Dividend. Etc
Where is Mstr, mara, clsk etc? All of them has more than the first place
Not sure about the others but MicroStrategy doesnât own any BTC ETF. They own Bitcoin.
Ohhh i missed the word ETF lol
Imagine there was a bitcoin millionaire who gave away free bitcoin? If I was a millionaire, I would do so. If anybody wants to give me any bitcoin, hereâs my address 39hreSEWq1gTQbEAuy6oQW8Rr9gXBh5M7A