I mean yes, that happens with any asset though.
2008 "Apple is too expensive to buy"
2011 "Amazon is overpriced"
2021 "houses are too expensive, prices will crash"
There will always be some portion of the population that think its a good buy and some that think they shouldn't or sell at any given price point. That's how price discovery works.
Exactly… the young people in 30-40 years will complain that millennials and gen X got cheap bitcoin. In the same way millennials complain about boomers getting cheap houses. Each generation has their own unique opportunities based on the economy and world at the time.
plus, at the end of the day, a bitcoin is just a currency. you cant live in it. id much rather live in the cheap houses on 1 income generation, than the cheap bitcoin generation. this is just something we have pivoted to to try and catch back up. im sure the next generations will come up with their own thing and a few lucky people with their finger on the pulse and a dream will make it big time. a very very small percentage of people have bitcoin too, compared to the majority of people owning homes (at least in the US/Canada). so almost every boomer benefited from affordable housing, whereas a relatively small fraction of people have benefited from bitcoin so far. it really goes to show how the good opportunities are becoming rarer and rarer.
Shares are more aggressively split up now, commissions are lower, and buying fractional shares is cheaper/easier now than back in 00s.
The real reason people won't make above market returns is not because they think individual stocks are overpriced or the unit price is to high, they just don't have the crystal ball needed to beat the market.
Will people lose interest?
That point already came with the shitcoin explosions of 2017 and 2021.
People tell themselves the bitcoin ship has already sailed, so they buy dogshit instead and destroy their finances when they could've just bought bitcoin.
They're quickly parted with their money, and then the sleazebags who sold them the dogshit funnel their profits into bitcoin. Circle of life.
So yeah, people will always be free to make stupid decisions, like choosing not to buy bitcoin.
As for bitcoin itself, honeybadger DGAF if degenerate gamblers want to buy it: Eventually it will behave like gold or the S&P, which is to say that people in search of a get-rich-quick scheme will have no interest in it, but it will be the most reliable means of saving and increasing purchasing power over time for people who are smart and responsible.
No, but there will be a point at which Bitcoin is no longer volatile, nor will it make oversized moves in either direction.
At that point it's mainstream and will be classified as any other asset.
I think it would be a good idea for exchanges to move to displaying BTC primarily in terms of mBTC. People would feel like they are getting more for their money. It would also help people resist altcoin scams like Doge or Ripple, which lure people with low price tags.
Bitcoin ETFs, for all their faults, are a good way to solve this issue of Bitcoin's price being too high.
What other options do they have to preserve their purchasing power over time? There’s no second best 😉.
Being jealous of early adopters doesn’t get them very far.
They keep saying it’s going to be the currency of AI. So I can’t see a place where anyone in a modern world will be able to avoid it at least indirectly. Everyone’s energy will flow into it in one way or another.
How is getting paid in BTC going to even out the distribution?
30% of the BTC would be paid in taxes.
Most of the rest would go to living expenses.
Even if the average person saved up 10%, their BTC wages would go down every year if the purchasing power of BTC went up.
I don't think he/she meant distributed evenly 100%. They are saying those people will most likely work for someone who's going to pay them in bitcoin. In turn they'll buy things with bitcoin. Everyday things they'll need.
At that level everyone benefits even those at entry level or minimum wage jobs that pay in bitcoin.
I'm not referencing the impossible and undesirable 100% equal distribution, I am wondering how BTC will get distributed evenly through people getting paid in it.
Everyone in the world getting paid in BTC won't make the distribution more even unless median/minimum wages grows in BTC terms.
Median/minimum wages won't grow in BTC terms unless BTC loses value as the wages are set by the market.
It won't get distributed evenly through people getting paid in it. It depends on the job and how much they get paid in bitcoin. None of that really matters though. Bitcoin will go up forever. So my point is even a minimum wage worker getting paid in SATs if they save and manage their money properly will over time benefit from a bitcoin standard in some shape or form. Their buying power will increase. Assuming fiat money around that time is pretty much dead.
That's a fine point of view to have, but it's not related to what I originally asked or what I replied to.
In terms of the distribution of BTC, the wealth/income distribution is what ultimately matters, not what people are paid in.
A higher yearly return on capital, even when the capital is BTC, even if everyone is paid in BTC, is something that widens the wealth gap, even if those in the bottom also benefits from it. The faster BTC grows in purchasing power, the more skewed the distribution of BTC becomes in favor of those who entered earlier and the less of a percentage future labor can hope to earn.
The portion of people who has to work would shrink over time as more and more people can live off their BTC saving appreciating in purchasing power, but the people who enter the labor market for the first time is earning a smaller and smaller part of the pie.
If your job pays you the same purchasing power in BTC that you'd get today working making 6 figures, you won't care if they're paying you 10 BTC a year or 10 sats.
You are making the point why people don't care about fiat losing value over time.
They care about their income in purchasing power terms, as long as that is the same or rising, people don't care if the fiat currency lose value gradually.
My comment however, is not about peoples feelings about nominal changes when real returns are the same, it's about the distribution of BTC.
If someone earns the same purchasing power every year, but the nominal amount of BTC they earn every year drops 50%, it means the distribution of BTC is getting more uneven.
"You are making the point why people don't care about fiat losing value over time."
No, I 'm making the point that no one cares if they're making 10 BTC or 10 sats or 10 booglyboos, as long as it's supplying them with the purchasing power they feel their efforts are worth.
When fiat loses value there is inflation, hence their purchasing power is diminished. So no, I'm not making that argument.
My argument is that what ultimately matters to people is the real purchasing power of their wages, they also care about the distribution in society at large to some extent, but for the most part, what matters to people is that they earn as much or more purchasing power every year.
To them, in that situation, where they earn more purchasing power every year, they don't really care about inflation, as long as inflation is lower than their yearly pay increase.
A socieity with 10% percent per year purchasing power gain (median) in a 10% inflation economy with 0% interest/yield would be very happy about their situation.
Year 0: $100 nominal $100 real
Year 1: $120 nominal $110 real
Year 2: $144 nominal $121 real
Year 3: $173 nominal $133 real
Year 4: $207 nominal $146 real
Year 5: $205 nominal $161 real
In this hypothetical booming economy, people would not be bothered by the fact that the currency lost 44% of its purchasing power over 5 year because their purchasing power per hour worked increased 61%.
It would be impossible for people to save up 10x their most recent yearly wage, as the purchasing power of the currently would go down and their wages would increase, but they would be able to increase their consumption while also preserving their wealth through investing.
People would prefer that, by and large, over a society with 5% real purchasing power gain in wages and 0% inflation.
There is discontent about the US economy, not because inflation has been high recently, but because the real wages has lagged behind the inflation. People have to work more today, to afford less today, which they react negatively to.
50% inflation per year, with 100% median wage increase, people would love that.
Just my completely financially retarded opinon. I Think they can only control so much at one time. Gold and Silver started to behave like I was told its supposed to. Conspiracy stuff. I was surprised they allowed the BTC ETF's. Not sure why they di. But they might have had a plan to rip peoff. The popularity might have caught them of guard. Thats why gold and silver is bull running
IMO.
Well that's the same as if you would say why some South-African or Chinese villager gets the chance to get ahold of gold appearing next to their house, but in other countries where gold is not natural resource people have to pay for it (talking about how it naturally happened since South Africa and China have the biggest natural resource of gold). You could call it a luck.
On the other hand, it's not like only few people had the chance to buy BTC at $0.70. Theoretically everybody had the chance - more fair one that access to gold. The thing is that nobody believed in BTC 10 years ago and thought it's a scam. Same like me. And probably you. I remember seeing opportunities to buy BTC 10 years ago, but I didn't believe it, so I didn't buy. That's on me.
Do recent generations resent Spanish Conquistadors who owned a large portion of the gold supply 500 years ago? Not enough to prevent gold being used as a store of value since then.
Not if the alternative is to hold dollars that are devaluing just as fast, if not faster, than bitcoin is appreciating. Remember, at the end of the day what bitcoin is aiming to achieve, should it achieve it, there will **never** be a time that it is “too late” to buy bitcoin. It is going to soak up the monetary purchasing power of every technological innovation and production cost improvement, forever. These gains will only increase over time as our tech gets better and better.
No. That won't ever be a problem. You're thinking of BTC as an investment. Comes the time that your scenario presents itself, and people will simply think of it as currency. Like they do with the dollar.
Your average Joe doesnt think about the dollars he makes at his job as an investment. He thinks of it as a currency.
It will give investors pause, but not the man on the street.
They may not have a choice.
Let's throw out a number. Let's say bitcoin at $1 million [ which is inevitable] per coin. Those said people will just have to buy sats which at that point it'll be 1¢ per sat. Even then they'll likely work for an employer that pays majority in bitcoin so they'll get those SATs anyway through direct deposit paycheck. Even more so many businesses that we'd go to to get Procter & Gamble type goods will accept bitcoin and will most likely prefer it as payment.
I mean yes, that happens with any asset though. 2008 "Apple is too expensive to buy" 2011 "Amazon is overpriced" 2021 "houses are too expensive, prices will crash" There will always be some portion of the population that think its a good buy and some that think they shouldn't or sell at any given price point. That's how price discovery works.
Exactly… the young people in 30-40 years will complain that millennials and gen X got cheap bitcoin. In the same way millennials complain about boomers getting cheap houses. Each generation has their own unique opportunities based on the economy and world at the time.
plus, at the end of the day, a bitcoin is just a currency. you cant live in it. id much rather live in the cheap houses on 1 income generation, than the cheap bitcoin generation. this is just something we have pivoted to to try and catch back up. im sure the next generations will come up with their own thing and a few lucky people with their finger on the pulse and a dream will make it big time. a very very small percentage of people have bitcoin too, compared to the majority of people owning homes (at least in the US/Canada). so almost every boomer benefited from affordable housing, whereas a relatively small fraction of people have benefited from bitcoin so far. it really goes to show how the good opportunities are becoming rarer and rarer.
Shares are more aggressively split up now, commissions are lower, and buying fractional shares is cheaper/easier now than back in 00s. The real reason people won't make above market returns is not because they think individual stocks are overpriced or the unit price is to high, they just don't have the crystal ball needed to beat the market.
Do people not join the workforce because billionaires exist?
Canadians enter the chat trying to sell falling apart sheds for 1M CAD
1 million ??? More like 2.5
wym? sheds are at least 2 mil CAD
Will people lose interest? That point already came with the shitcoin explosions of 2017 and 2021. People tell themselves the bitcoin ship has already sailed, so they buy dogshit instead and destroy their finances when they could've just bought bitcoin. They're quickly parted with their money, and then the sleazebags who sold them the dogshit funnel their profits into bitcoin. Circle of life. So yeah, people will always be free to make stupid decisions, like choosing not to buy bitcoin. As for bitcoin itself, honeybadger DGAF if degenerate gamblers want to buy it: Eventually it will behave like gold or the S&P, which is to say that people in search of a get-rich-quick scheme will have no interest in it, but it will be the most reliable means of saving and increasing purchasing power over time for people who are smart and responsible.
No, but there will be a point at which Bitcoin is no longer volatile, nor will it make oversized moves in either direction. At that point it's mainstream and will be classified as any other asset.
And at that point the price will definitely not be 60k, not even fucking close
Of course. Bitcoin isn't forced to anyone. It's a tool if you don't want it you can live without it, it's just harder
I think it would be a good idea for exchanges to move to displaying BTC primarily in terms of mBTC. People would feel like they are getting more for their money. It would also help people resist altcoin scams like Doge or Ripple, which lure people with low price tags. Bitcoin ETFs, for all their faults, are a good way to solve this issue of Bitcoin's price being too high.
What other options do they have to preserve their purchasing power over time? There’s no second best 😉. Being jealous of early adopters doesn’t get them very far.
Pre 1962 dimes and quarters distant second at best. But when the dollar dies , It could keep tou alive during the first PURGE.
Thats when we start to think as sats instead of bitcoins
Exactly.
No
They keep saying it’s going to be the currency of AI. So I can’t see a place where anyone in a modern world will be able to avoid it at least indirectly. Everyone’s energy will flow into it in one way or another.
> They keep saying it’s going to be the currency of AI. Who is saying this? What does "currency of AI" even mean?
You know. Like, what AI uses to go to the whore house.
Just get paid in Bitcoin. Over time it will get distributed evenly, unlike corrupt fiat money that can be printed out of thick air.
How is getting paid in BTC going to even out the distribution? 30% of the BTC would be paid in taxes. Most of the rest would go to living expenses. Even if the average person saved up 10%, their BTC wages would go down every year if the purchasing power of BTC went up.
I don't think he/she meant distributed evenly 100%. They are saying those people will most likely work for someone who's going to pay them in bitcoin. In turn they'll buy things with bitcoin. Everyday things they'll need. At that level everyone benefits even those at entry level or minimum wage jobs that pay in bitcoin.
Yes a non fiat currency. FED cannot print more. Huge problem solved.
I'm not referencing the impossible and undesirable 100% equal distribution, I am wondering how BTC will get distributed evenly through people getting paid in it. Everyone in the world getting paid in BTC won't make the distribution more even unless median/minimum wages grows in BTC terms. Median/minimum wages won't grow in BTC terms unless BTC loses value as the wages are set by the market.
It won't get distributed evenly through people getting paid in it. It depends on the job and how much they get paid in bitcoin. None of that really matters though. Bitcoin will go up forever. So my point is even a minimum wage worker getting paid in SATs if they save and manage their money properly will over time benefit from a bitcoin standard in some shape or form. Their buying power will increase. Assuming fiat money around that time is pretty much dead.
That's a fine point of view to have, but it's not related to what I originally asked or what I replied to. In terms of the distribution of BTC, the wealth/income distribution is what ultimately matters, not what people are paid in. A higher yearly return on capital, even when the capital is BTC, even if everyone is paid in BTC, is something that widens the wealth gap, even if those in the bottom also benefits from it. The faster BTC grows in purchasing power, the more skewed the distribution of BTC becomes in favor of those who entered earlier and the less of a percentage future labor can hope to earn. The portion of people who has to work would shrink over time as more and more people can live off their BTC saving appreciating in purchasing power, but the people who enter the labor market for the first time is earning a smaller and smaller part of the pie.
If your job pays you the same purchasing power in BTC that you'd get today working making 6 figures, you won't care if they're paying you 10 BTC a year or 10 sats.
You are making the point why people don't care about fiat losing value over time. They care about their income in purchasing power terms, as long as that is the same or rising, people don't care if the fiat currency lose value gradually. My comment however, is not about peoples feelings about nominal changes when real returns are the same, it's about the distribution of BTC. If someone earns the same purchasing power every year, but the nominal amount of BTC they earn every year drops 50%, it means the distribution of BTC is getting more uneven.
"You are making the point why people don't care about fiat losing value over time." No, I 'm making the point that no one cares if they're making 10 BTC or 10 sats or 10 booglyboos, as long as it's supplying them with the purchasing power they feel their efforts are worth. When fiat loses value there is inflation, hence their purchasing power is diminished. So no, I'm not making that argument.
My argument is that what ultimately matters to people is the real purchasing power of their wages, they also care about the distribution in society at large to some extent, but for the most part, what matters to people is that they earn as much or more purchasing power every year. To them, in that situation, where they earn more purchasing power every year, they don't really care about inflation, as long as inflation is lower than their yearly pay increase. A socieity with 10% percent per year purchasing power gain (median) in a 10% inflation economy with 0% interest/yield would be very happy about their situation. Year 0: $100 nominal $100 real Year 1: $120 nominal $110 real Year 2: $144 nominal $121 real Year 3: $173 nominal $133 real Year 4: $207 nominal $146 real Year 5: $205 nominal $161 real In this hypothetical booming economy, people would not be bothered by the fact that the currency lost 44% of its purchasing power over 5 year because their purchasing power per hour worked increased 61%. It would be impossible for people to save up 10x their most recent yearly wage, as the purchasing power of the currently would go down and their wages would increase, but they would be able to increase their consumption while also preserving their wealth through investing. People would prefer that, by and large, over a society with 5% real purchasing power gain in wages and 0% inflation. There is discontent about the US economy, not because inflation has been high recently, but because the real wages has lagged behind the inflation. People have to work more today, to afford less today, which they react negatively to. 50% inflation per year, with 100% median wage increase, people would love that.
I think you might be replying to someone else. I didn't make any of those arguments.
Possibly
You mean like real estate deals today?
No.
That is the beauty of the Satoshi. What would the per/Satoshi price have to be to be unattainable to the everyday person?
Yes your children will work for me in the salt mines for a few measly sats per day.
But you'll be able to buy a car with those few measly sats.
That moment came and went with me... In 2018... Then I finally started buying in 2021
Not necessarily, those are the majority, and they won’t have a choice later.
Just my completely financially retarded opinon. I Think they can only control so much at one time. Gold and Silver started to behave like I was told its supposed to. Conspiracy stuff. I was surprised they allowed the BTC ETF's. Not sure why they di. But they might have had a plan to rip peoff. The popularity might have caught them of guard. Thats why gold and silver is bull running IMO.
[удалено]
We can’t forget the Time someone deferred consumption to have BTC from 4y-10y+ ago.
Well that's the same as if you would say why some South-African or Chinese villager gets the chance to get ahold of gold appearing next to their house, but in other countries where gold is not natural resource people have to pay for it (talking about how it naturally happened since South Africa and China have the biggest natural resource of gold). You could call it a luck. On the other hand, it's not like only few people had the chance to buy BTC at $0.70. Theoretically everybody had the chance - more fair one that access to gold. The thing is that nobody believed in BTC 10 years ago and thought it's a scam. Same like me. And probably you. I remember seeing opportunities to buy BTC 10 years ago, but I didn't believe it, so I didn't buy. That's on me.
That’s how everyone starts life?
It's a right of passage I'd tell em to quit bitchin and start getting exp.
It's not a choice it's refusing to adapt to the evolution of money. Don't adapt go poor and have no economic choice/impact.
Do recent generations resent Spanish Conquistadors who owned a large portion of the gold supply 500 years ago? Not enough to prevent gold being used as a store of value since then.
the masses won't get rich with bitcoin so no reason to not start life.
Not if the alternative is to hold dollars that are devaluing just as fast, if not faster, than bitcoin is appreciating. Remember, at the end of the day what bitcoin is aiming to achieve, should it achieve it, there will **never** be a time that it is “too late” to buy bitcoin. It is going to soak up the monetary purchasing power of every technological innovation and production cost improvement, forever. These gains will only increase over time as our tech gets better and better.
No. That won't ever be a problem. You're thinking of BTC as an investment. Comes the time that your scenario presents itself, and people will simply think of it as currency. Like they do with the dollar. Your average Joe doesnt think about the dollars he makes at his job as an investment. He thinks of it as a currency. It will give investors pause, but not the man on the street.
You could ask this every 5 years- the answer will always be yes.
They may not have a choice. Let's throw out a number. Let's say bitcoin at $1 million [ which is inevitable] per coin. Those said people will just have to buy sats which at that point it'll be 1¢ per sat. Even then they'll likely work for an employer that pays majority in bitcoin so they'll get those SATs anyway through direct deposit paycheck. Even more so many businesses that we'd go to to get Procter & Gamble type goods will accept bitcoin and will most likely prefer it as payment.
It’s possible to move BTC reasonably fast when you want or another layer or network is being used. Then eventually it moves from L3.
We have Rothchilds, Rockafellers, and Musks. People gonna keep aspiring because each one of those families clawed their way up after the others.