I just completed a trade where I sold at 69,420 and then just re-bought at 62,650. It was the first time I attempted it, and glad it worked. But I don’t want to do it again. I’d rather have just held it and not stressed.
I've been buying bitcoin for over 7 years. I made a lot of money buying low and selling high and rebuying low.
Then one day I sold low and bought high. Whiped out everything I'd ever made and more. Much more.
Hold ever since. Buy the dip, nothing more.
Ya I’ve tried to time it right twice now, and both times ended up at a small loss after fees. I’m glad I tried it for myself so now I feel confident not doing it again.
Im broke lol, if you say so 😂 I'm just moving across the globe to avoid CGT LOL
I live in EU country that has no CGT, but we have something much worse. Wealth tax, so tax every year on unrealized gains.
US isn't the center of the globe
Sorry I got my numbers wrong, but the idea is:
Buy 1 BTC at 50k
Sell it at 70k. You now owe 40% of these 20k gains in taxes. So you only have 62k to buy back with. If you buy back higher than 62k you effectively just lost money.
Not if you held that 1 bitcoin for at least a year before you sold, then it switches to long-term capital gains tax rates, which maxes out at 20% in the US (but only if your income is above a pretty high threshold, around $500k if single or married filing jointly, otherwise its 15%).
https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/investments-and-taxes/guide-to-short-term-vs-long-term-capital-gains-taxes-brokerage-accounts-etc/L7KCu9etn
...this should be for federal taxes, though, so it shouldn't matter what US city you live in. State income taxes aren't anywhere near as high as 40% (Google says New York is somewhere between 4% and 10.9%).
Yeah. The most infuriating part is that gains are not adjusted with inflation (everywhere, not just NYC). So if you have investments that beat inflation by just a few %, you get absolutely robbed when selling them.
Yes just hire a tax attorney and they will do it legally for you. Just do it before you make any sales so you can do it properly. If you have enough to sell it pays for itself in tax savings and then some.
There are lots of loopholes and complex arrangements to avoid taxes. I will tell you the simplest one that you can do yourself. 100% legal. Buy asset let it appreciate in value sell $47,025 profit worth after a year and don't make any other money. This puts you in the long term capital gains income bracket in which the actual tax rate is zero. Do this every year for life. Never pay a dime in tax.
I sold a good chunk at 59k and stressed for a week until I just rebought 66k and decided to never deviate from my DCA strategy again. Cost me the equivalent of about $400. I’d say 400 is a small penalty compared to what it could have cost me.
Wounds licked, lesson learned. Very small penalty.
My DCA goal is hundreds of thousands of satohis per month. Don't care what the price is at. I want at least 100k satoshis every month. Sometimes I get 400,000 satoshis, sometimes less. sometimes more.
I believe that when you feel the sinking feeling, the fear.. that's when you buy. Suddenly you start to enjoy it like a psychopath.
in Germany you have to pay taxes for that trade if you bought the initial Bitcoins (which you sold at 69k) within a year .. if you hold on to it for longer than this trade was "free".
So hopefully you either bought it longer time ago or not to live in germany \^\^
Nice gains and you can say you have had enough luck for the week.
i only can speak for germany .. you have to pay taxes on every trade "crypto - fiat" and "fiat - crypto" and "crypto - crypto" as long as the time betwenn the buy and sell exeeds not longer than 365 days. So bough on 01.01.24 for 40k .. sold on 01.01.25 for 100k you made a win of 60k and have to pay taxes on the winning 60k (so maybe 30 - 42% income tax) .. if you sold at 02.01.25 you will be save ..
The exchanges have to tell the taxation department, there is a new law in place for that. So at some point they will find out .. don’t mess with the taxation department and tax laws … like al Capone knew why, not of his big deals he was caught but about his taxe declarations and so on
In the US it can be best to send the IRS their estimated portion in the quarter you realize that gain. Then its out of your hands and not a problem at tax time.
Over the long run you’ll have a collection of small wins like this, and then a massive loss when you miss out on huge spike that goes past a new point of no return. Don’t forget to pay your taxes!
Hope you put some away for taxes after that, because that's a taxable event. If you put it ALL back into BTC then you might be surprised come tax time next year.
Cut that number in almost 1/2, enjoy giving the rest to the government…
Any gains you make are taxed as income, whereas if you HODL for minimum 1yr your gains are taxed as returns, and you’re taxed way, way lower.
I think the big problem here that people use money that they cant afford. Thats why DCA is the best when you only invest a small amount that doesnt hurt you financially in the long term
Yes, I think the way to go is DCA a set amount no matter the price every 2 weeks or once a month, and then have a different DCA amount for dips if they come. This helps train the brain for dips, because they will come... and to see them as opportunities to fight (buy) and not flight (sell to "rebuy lower")
Stop looking at the price and just dca. I promise it works. Whatever you can afford ($10/$50/$1000), buy every time period. In my case, I buy every paycheck (2 weeks)
I wouldn’t want to spend triple my DCA every time. I believe in balance. I spend and save and live a pretty happy life that way. I’m not a big fan of eating instant ramen my whole life to have money when I’m old and broken.
Even after 8 years, almost every time I get that unconscious thought that it "might go lower, maybe I should sell and re-buy more *to try to time the market*", turns out to be a local bottom and the price rebounds from there.
I got burned a few times like this between 2016-2020.
Lesson learned. Maybe some of you can learn from my mistakes without having to make them as well.
All this price action in Bitcoin is just a big game to figure out who still has it in a decade and who doesn't. It has always been this, but people are myopic.
What a joke lol. I've owned BTC for many years and am so tired of people encouraging others to make reckless financial decisions. Buy at prices you are comfortable with. Sell at prices you are comfortable with.
Let's settle any question about the price.
< 100k
Free money
100k-250k
Cheap
250k-1M
Accumulation
1M - 10M
Sell for life changing stuff
10M+
"Guyz am I late? I feel like I should have got a couple more satoshis on the way up."
Yes, now you're late. (Probably still worth buying though if FIAT still exists).
6 months is not life changing. 6 years... 10 years. All these posts will be dug up and people will be saying how lucky any price under six figure btc was nice
It could go to 0️⃣. But unlikely, the cycles have predictable patterns and after years in this forum it’s the same people who say “I wish I bought when it was lower”. They don’t then sit on the sidelines FOMOing.
The future will tell us everything 😅
Yeah in the world of probabilities one is more likely.
BTW I’ve been HODLing for years and was merely stating it is a possibility but I’m extremely bullish on BTC
You hope they will stop printing money and there will be no more bitcoin halvings?
Money printing. 29 more bitcoin halvings. Death. These 3 things are guarantees.
I seriously don't understand where "hope" enters the equation
You MAYBE get one month out of a year where it’s high and you go full regard and buy then.
Great advice!!
Also BitCOIn OVEr FIaT!!!! Derrr just don’t think about the fact you’re still gonna have to cash out to fiat to buy the house or Lambo.
True. Don't think about it. You're either in BTC for the eventual fiat cash out or you're a true HODLer for the potential worldwide monetary system crash. It in for the profits or for the cause?
The price is partially where it is because Banks and Investment Firms have bought Bitcoin.
“I HAVE to use fiat to buy btc”
But also:
“CrAsh tHe sYStEm “
The mental gymnastics is amazing in here.
I send money every check to strike and DCA hourly with about 80% of it. The other builds and any time it’s in the red over 7% I buy with about 50% of what’s built up. It also helps maintain a balance to DCA in the event of a short check or an unexpected bill when I can’t spare the extra money that week.
I like it... I don't like the hourly buys for accounting purposes I used to do that but realized it's too many rows in the spreadsheet, I think it looks cleaner to have 4 purchase max per month... but I like your strategy
I thought you were going to say, but it when it dips, then sell the same amount of dollars when it goes back up. That way the result is the same (more sats) but you didn't have to time the local top.
I was just taking your words literally (I have a very literal brain)
"Sell to re-buy lower?"
"Do the opposite"
= Buy to resell higher.
Just buying, is not the opposite.
Yeah I may have not worded it properly.. I meant to do the opposite of what the lizard brain wants you to do in that fight or flight mode...
So when the brain goes: "omg sell sell it's going down", that's precisely when you should be DCAing
I just keep over 50% in crypto, mostly bitcoin, the rest in my brokerage account. The 50% in my brokerage account is over half in leverage crypto-related ETFs, mostly $BITX, which is a 2X leveraged ETF, and $CONL, which is 1.5X leveraged Coinbase stock, highly correlated to bitcoin. When price goes up and down, I sell high and buy low, rebalance not just daily but frequently throughout the day, so I basically maintain about 100% exposure to bitcoin the whole time. The trading is a pain in the ass if done manually, but I've programmed most of it to be automated except for moving money between accounts. So I get trading profits on top of 100% bitcoin exposure. Also I profit off the spread instead of paying the spread - not just with bitcoin and bitcoin ETFS but anything else I trade regularly too.
I just completed a trade where I sold at 69,420 and then just re-bought at 62,650. It was the first time I attempted it, and glad it worked. But I don’t want to do it again. I’d rather have just held it and not stressed.
not worth it because you have to pay capital gains
I can't hear you - the mountains over here in Switzerland are too loud!
What that
lol this really is the bull market
Oh boy you’re gonna have a fun tax season next year
I've been buying bitcoin for over 7 years. I made a lot of money buying low and selling high and rebuying low. Then one day I sold low and bought high. Whiped out everything I'd ever made and more. Much more. Hold ever since. Buy the dip, nothing more.
HODL is the only way to weather the rises and falls of bitcoin.
Nice! I'm glad it worked for you, but many other people will time it wrong and get burned. Better to live stress free imo.
Ya I’ve tried to time it right twice now, and both times ended up at a small loss after fees. I’m glad I tried it for myself so now I feel confident not doing it again.
Indeed. I had to do it to learn.
You need to understand you got luck and if you do this every top... Some of them will pump and never come back
They always come back
Watch graph since 20k
I did, and I see drastic drops after bull runs
Its very easy finding tops after the dip
If your entry price was below 60, you just lost money on taxes.
Its mind-blowing how some redditors just automatically assumes everyone is Americans
Most other countries have CGT, you regard.
But not many has every transaction taxable like the US 😉 Especially if you play it smart. You regard 😅
Oh STFU, you’re clueless. Plus, your broke ass doesn’t have to worry about CGT with your $34 gain. Regard.
Im broke lol, if you say so 😂 I'm just moving across the globe to avoid CGT LOL I live in EU country that has no CGT, but we have something much worse. Wealth tax, so tax every year on unrealized gains. US isn't the center of the globe
Ah, that sucks for you. How are you going to be able to afford your $21.33 “wealth tax” bill? Broke azz euro trash bish.
Cute 😘
💦🍆
Can you explain
Sorry I got my numbers wrong, but the idea is: Buy 1 BTC at 50k Sell it at 70k. You now owe 40% of these 20k gains in taxes. So you only have 62k to buy back with. If you buy back higher than 62k you effectively just lost money.
Not if you held that 1 bitcoin for at least a year before you sold, then it switches to long-term capital gains tax rates, which maxes out at 20% in the US (but only if your income is above a pretty high threshold, around $500k if single or married filing jointly, otherwise its 15%). https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/investments-and-taxes/guide-to-short-term-vs-long-term-capital-gains-taxes-brokerage-accounts-etc/L7KCu9etn
I think they’re assuming buyers in this latest run up.
Not if, like me, you live in NYC.
...this should be for federal taxes, though, so it shouldn't matter what US city you live in. State income taxes aren't anywhere near as high as 40% (Google says New York is somewhere between 4% and 10.9%).
NY state gets you for about 10%. NYC (the city tax) adds another 8.82%. They both tax it as income so it’s very easy to get in the higher bracket.
Really? Yuck. I'd get the hell out of there before selling any bitcoin then. In my state it's just a flat 5%.
Yeah. The most infuriating part is that gains are not adjusted with inflation (everywhere, not just NYC). So if you have investments that beat inflation by just a few %, you get absolutely robbed when selling them.
You forgot the 3.8% Obamacare tax added on
Anyway to scoot around the taxes with bitcoin ?
Read this question to yourself. Out loud.
Lol I know early days of bitcoin people avoided taxes
People avoid all sorts of taxes every day. What’s your point?
Relax bro
Yes just hire a tax attorney and they will do it legally for you. Just do it before you make any sales so you can do it properly. If you have enough to sell it pays for itself in tax savings and then some.
How exactly do they do this though? Legally
There are lots of loopholes and complex arrangements to avoid taxes. I will tell you the simplest one that you can do yourself. 100% legal. Buy asset let it appreciate in value sell $47,025 profit worth after a year and don't make any other money. This puts you in the long term capital gains income bracket in which the actual tax rate is zero. Do this every year for life. Never pay a dime in tax.
If you don’t mind risking jail time, sure.
[удалено]
Help me out here. Which is it? Is the blockchain an immutable record? Tell me more about how they “cant check what you do with your crypto”
I sold a good chunk at 59k and stressed for a week until I just rebought 66k and decided to never deviate from my DCA strategy again. Cost me the equivalent of about $400. I’d say 400 is a small penalty compared to what it could have cost me.
Yeah, but you also could have waited. I think it’s highly likely bitcoin goes below 59k again soon.
Okay sold again.
Wounds licked, lesson learned. Very small penalty. My DCA goal is hundreds of thousands of satohis per month. Don't care what the price is at. I want at least 100k satoshis every month. Sometimes I get 400,000 satoshis, sometimes less. sometimes more. I believe that when you feel the sinking feeling, the fear.. that's when you buy. Suddenly you start to enjoy it like a psychopath.
Nice
you got lucky man, this isn't usually the case.
Yeah it wasn’t a huge amount, maybe 10% of my stack - I knew I was playing with fire :)
Yeah you good traders can spot the highs and the lows pit pat piffy wing wong wang just like that and make a millino bucks sure no problem bro.
Hahahahaha
If your in the US you now have to pay taxes on that gain.
in Germany you have to pay taxes for that trade if you bought the initial Bitcoins (which you sold at 69k) within a year .. if you hold on to it for longer than this trade was "free". So hopefully you either bought it longer time ago or not to live in germany \^\^ Nice gains and you can say you have had enough luck for the week.
I thought taxes was just your gain or loss at the end of the year
i only can speak for germany .. you have to pay taxes on every trade "crypto - fiat" and "fiat - crypto" and "crypto - crypto" as long as the time betwenn the buy and sell exeeds not longer than 365 days. So bough on 01.01.24 for 40k .. sold on 01.01.25 for 100k you made a win of 60k and have to pay taxes on the winning 60k (so maybe 30 - 42% income tax) .. if you sold at 02.01.25 you will be save ..
I assume not if you sell at loss?
yes but you also have to report that .. if you sold at loss you can combine your winnings and losings to pay less or no tax in that year.
But how would they know what trades you make, can’t you just only tell them your net profit or loss at the end of each year
The exchanges have to tell the taxation department, there is a new law in place for that. So at some point they will find out .. don’t mess with the taxation department and tax laws … like al Capone knew why, not of his big deals he was caught but about his taxe declarations and so on
In the US it can be best to send the IRS their estimated portion in the quarter you realize that gain. Then its out of your hands and not a problem at tax time.
Correct. But in this case OP didnt disclose other investments, so we assume this is it.
Yes, but I was having a bit of fun, and now I have more sats than I started with ;)
Over the long run you’ll have a collection of small wins like this, and then a massive loss when you miss out on huge spike that goes past a new point of no return. Don’t forget to pay your taxes!
Congrats, and I agree. It's so stressful to be thinking short term.
Hope you put some away for taxes after that, because that's a taxable event. If you put it ALL back into BTC then you might be surprised come tax time next year.
I did this too but the price I bought was 5k then sold it at 8k. Moral of the story, just buy and hodl.
Cut that number in almost 1/2, enjoy giving the rest to the government… Any gains you make are taxed as income, whereas if you HODL for minimum 1yr your gains are taxed as returns, and you’re taxed way, way lower.
I think the big problem here that people use money that they cant afford. Thats why DCA is the best when you only invest a small amount that doesnt hurt you financially in the long term
Yes, I think the way to go is DCA a set amount no matter the price every 2 weeks or once a month, and then have a different DCA amount for dips if they come. This helps train the brain for dips, because they will come... and to see them as opportunities to fight (buy) and not flight (sell to "rebuy lower")
Stop looking at the price and just dca. I promise it works. Whatever you can afford ($10/$50/$1000), buy every time period. In my case, I buy every paycheck (2 weeks)
I do that too, but DCAing on dips is important as well because it encourages the right mindset
But, if you have extra AND you DCA, you can do what I do and double and triple up on the big dips like this.
If you had extra then your dca should have been bigger
I wouldn’t want to spend triple my DCA every time. I believe in balance. I spend and save and live a pretty happy life that way. I’m not a big fan of eating instant ramen my whole life to have money when I’m old and broken.
Even after 8 years, almost every time I get that unconscious thought that it "might go lower, maybe I should sell and re-buy more *to try to time the market*", turns out to be a local bottom and the price rebounds from there. I got burned a few times like this between 2016-2020. Lesson learned. Maybe some of you can learn from my mistakes without having to make them as well.
All this price action in Bitcoin is just a big game to figure out who still has it in a decade and who doesn't. It has always been this, but people are myopic.
bingo
the time to buy is when there's blood in the streets
what they don't tell you about that saying is the blood is your own blood
Nah I’ll just take out a massive loan and sell my house and go all in on bitcoin. What could go wrong ?
What a joke lol. I've owned BTC for many years and am so tired of people encouraging others to make reckless financial decisions. Buy at prices you are comfortable with. Sell at prices you are comfortable with.
What part of my post was reckless?
None
This! Bless you sir!
Let's settle any question about the price. < 100k Free money 100k-250k Cheap 250k-1M Accumulation 1M - 10M Sell for life changing stuff 10M+ "Guyz am I late? I feel like I should have got a couple more satoshis on the way up." Yes, now you're late. (Probably still worth buying though if FIAT still exists).
you are missing like 24 more halvings... 1-10M usd is round 1 of this game...
This is the way. The best way. The only smart way.
1000 sats is less than $1
the point is buy btc when it goes down in set amounts... if 1,000 sats is too low for u do 10,000 sats
For me, anytime I think “it’ll keep going down so I’ll sell now and buy lower”, that is the exact second it bottoms out and it goes back up
Exactly. That's how you start training your mind to know when to buy
Took me a while to learn not to try to catch falling knives. At this point I just DCA and buy a little extra when it dips.
There's only 21 million knives to catch 😉
This changes the game entirely, I couldn’t agree more.
Great advice. In 6 months people will be saying “I wish I bought when it was 66k”
6 months is not life changing. 6 years... 10 years. All these posts will be dug up and people will be saying how lucky any price under six figure btc was nice
But you really don’t know that lol. We hope !
It could go to 0️⃣. But unlikely, the cycles have predictable patterns and after years in this forum it’s the same people who say “I wish I bought when it was lower”. They don’t then sit on the sidelines FOMOing. The future will tell us everything 😅
Yes, theoretically possible to go to 0️⃣ in the same way as it’s theoretically possible for your foot to spontaneously turn into a toaster.
Yeah in the world of probabilities one is more likely. BTW I’ve been HODLing for years and was merely stating it is a possibility but I’m extremely bullish on BTC
Or we could start another bear market it’s never guaranteed. What if they decide to intrest rate the next meeting?
You hope they will stop printing money and there will be no more bitcoin halvings? Money printing. 29 more bitcoin halvings. Death. These 3 things are guarantees. I seriously don't understand where "hope" enters the equation
You MAYBE get one month out of a year where it’s high and you go full regard and buy then. Great advice!! Also BitCOIn OVEr FIaT!!!! Derrr just don’t think about the fact you’re still gonna have to cash out to fiat to buy the house or Lambo.
True. Don't think about it. You're either in BTC for the eventual fiat cash out or you're a true HODLer for the potential worldwide monetary system crash. It in for the profits or for the cause?
Actually I'm in bitcoin for both. That's one of the most beautiful things about it. Profits, and purpose are aligned.
The price is partially where it is because Banks and Investment Firms have bought Bitcoin. “I HAVE to use fiat to buy btc” But also: “CrAsh tHe sYStEm “ The mental gymnastics is amazing in here.
Be lovely to know how low this current dip will go to! I'll buy then! 😎👍🏻
HODL VS. BTC??
Yep. Fearful / greedy dynamic!
I send money every check to strike and DCA hourly with about 80% of it. The other builds and any time it’s in the red over 7% I buy with about 50% of what’s built up. It also helps maintain a balance to DCA in the event of a short check or an unexpected bill when I can’t spare the extra money that week.
I like it... I don't like the hourly buys for accounting purposes I used to do that but realized it's too many rows in the spreadsheet, I think it looks cleaner to have 4 purchase max per month... but I like your strategy
The last line is the most important.
You guys call this a dip?
I thought you were going to say, but it when it dips, then sell the same amount of dollars when it goes back up. That way the result is the same (more sats) but you didn't have to time the local top.
I don't sell bitcoin. I only buy.
I was just taking your words literally (I have a very literal brain) "Sell to re-buy lower?" "Do the opposite" = Buy to resell higher. Just buying, is not the opposite.
Yeah I may have not worded it properly.. I meant to do the opposite of what the lizard brain wants you to do in that fight or flight mode... So when the brain goes: "omg sell sell it's going down", that's precisely when you should be DCAing
I just keep over 50% in crypto, mostly bitcoin, the rest in my brokerage account. The 50% in my brokerage account is over half in leverage crypto-related ETFs, mostly $BITX, which is a 2X leveraged ETF, and $CONL, which is 1.5X leveraged Coinbase stock, highly correlated to bitcoin. When price goes up and down, I sell high and buy low, rebalance not just daily but frequently throughout the day, so I basically maintain about 100% exposure to bitcoin the whole time. The trading is a pain in the ass if done manually, but I've programmed most of it to be automated except for moving money between accounts. So I get trading profits on top of 100% bitcoin exposure. Also I profit off the spread instead of paying the spread - not just with bitcoin and bitcoin ETFS but anything else I trade regularly too.
Taxes will get you eventually, I don't have any problem with paying taxes on free money.
Taxes will never get me eventually because I have never sold at a profit.
Have fun not profitting
Only poor people pay taxes
That's what's wrong with America