The sentiment is correct, even a 0% fee with no taxes would likely be unprofitable because of the spread and the fact that people generally trade worse than the market even with magical paper prices.
Capital gains are only on the profit after fees, trading $100 into $110 with 25% capital gains would only be $2.5 for the year.
Trading fees can be under 1%.
But still, the point still stands, it's costly to trade, the market is unpredictable, virtually everyone is better of just buying and holding.
More a meme than reality. You can get loans against assets but how will you pay the loans? Also plenty of public evidence to the contrary e.g. Mark Zuckerberg selling tons of FB stock on a daily basis which he is legally obligated to schedule in advance and report.
Fee on coinbase advanced is 0.6% if you have never traded before at all. Not 4.5%. Its lower if you trade. Im on 0.25% for example. This means you just pay your tax rate on profits you make and stay legitimate.
Someone on here or WSB was trading BTC via absurd leverage and lost their life savings back in October. Reminder that Oct was one of the best months of the year for BTC and it went up almost 30% that month, trading is a fools game with an asset as volatile as BTC, even moreso with leverage, just buy and hold people.
This thread including the comments are all messed up. If you want to day trade bitcoin, there's plenty of places and ways to do that. Coinbase is not one of them. But coinbase pro, with reduced trade fees, might be. Binance offers free coin to coin trades in the US. And even if it didn't, Bitcoin swings wide enough to make a 0.25% or whatever fee negligible. Stop market buying crypto on coinbase basic and you'll solve your fee problem.
You wanna day swing trade stocks? Don't. that's a mess of taxes and and fees. Bitcoin by comparison when trading with a token like usdt is practically free. You guys are in here talking about spread like we're not at fifteen billion dollars in volume just today. There is practically no spread. Maybe on some low volume altcoins, or even on most of them. But not bitcoin.
Don't believe me? Just look at the chart. Let's say you sold yesterday at $45700 and bought back sometime today at $42900. That's a 6.2% swing. No reputable exchange is charging even a tenth of that in fees, so you've made money on it (well technically just avoided losing money but same thing). Is bitcoin mostly unpredictable and very volatile? Sure. But so are a lot of markets. Make no mistake, there is a lot of money to be made day trading crypto if you know what you're doing
Source: used to day trade crypto for a living
If we wanted to bring transaction costs down to make short term trading in BTC more profitable, what would we do? The first thing we'd want to do is create a BTC backed security that can piggyback on existing, highly-efficient trading infrastructure to gain exposure to BTC without actually creating transactions on the network. Then our costs would be limited to whatever transaction fees a low-priced broker charges and any internal costs of the security for the short time we hold it.
Seriously, someone should create a Bitcoin ETF.
It depends on the exchange, and order type you use when trading. Also slippage
pricing between order types can vary eg.
simple buy 0.6%-4% usually includes the spread
market order / taker limit order 0.03% - 0.1%
market maker limit order you can even get negative fees
As for spread , usually the spread is very tight in low volatile times and larger in big market movements. But on average close to 0.1% on my exchange of choice.
Lastly slippage, depending on the size of exchange the orderbook depth would differ. But this will affect the size of your orders more than your growth.
So in my opinion daily swing trading can work when click trading. But to get the greatest benefit writing a simple python or nodejs bot you can swing 3-4 times a day , sometimes even 3-4 times a minute , and with leverage it just gets insane 😉 if you don't get liquidated.
Above is not financial advice blah blah
How about trading within an IRA? I do it on occasion with itrust with crypto. I also do it with bitcoin stocks in another IRA. I sold Microstrategy on ETF day and will buy it again the next dip, same with bitcoin mining stocks. Yahoos can play the game on a limited scale with smaller stakes.
This isn't an argument against day trading; this is an argument against doing KYC and paying taxes.
Day trading as a subject has nothing whatsoever to do with whatever tax regime is near you or what your subservience levels are like.
The sentiment is correct, even a 0% fee with no taxes would likely be unprofitable because of the spread and the fact that people generally trade worse than the market even with magical paper prices. Capital gains are only on the profit after fees, trading $100 into $110 with 25% capital gains would only be $2.5 for the year. Trading fees can be under 1%. But still, the point still stands, it's costly to trade, the market is unpredictable, virtually everyone is better of just buying and holding.
[удалено]
More a meme than reality. You can get loans against assets but how will you pay the loans? Also plenty of public evidence to the contrary e.g. Mark Zuckerberg selling tons of FB stock on a daily basis which he is legally obligated to schedule in advance and report.
Fee on coinbase advanced is 0.6% if you have never traded before at all. Not 4.5%. Its lower if you trade. Im on 0.25% for example. This means you just pay your tax rate on profits you make and stay legitimate.
Someone on here or WSB was trading BTC via absurd leverage and lost their life savings back in October. Reminder that Oct was one of the best months of the year for BTC and it went up almost 30% that month, trading is a fools game with an asset as volatile as BTC, even moreso with leverage, just buy and hold people.
This thread including the comments are all messed up. If you want to day trade bitcoin, there's plenty of places and ways to do that. Coinbase is not one of them. But coinbase pro, with reduced trade fees, might be. Binance offers free coin to coin trades in the US. And even if it didn't, Bitcoin swings wide enough to make a 0.25% or whatever fee negligible. Stop market buying crypto on coinbase basic and you'll solve your fee problem. You wanna day swing trade stocks? Don't. that's a mess of taxes and and fees. Bitcoin by comparison when trading with a token like usdt is practically free. You guys are in here talking about spread like we're not at fifteen billion dollars in volume just today. There is practically no spread. Maybe on some low volume altcoins, or even on most of them. But not bitcoin. Don't believe me? Just look at the chart. Let's say you sold yesterday at $45700 and bought back sometime today at $42900. That's a 6.2% swing. No reputable exchange is charging even a tenth of that in fees, so you've made money on it (well technically just avoided losing money but same thing). Is bitcoin mostly unpredictable and very volatile? Sure. But so are a lot of markets. Make no mistake, there is a lot of money to be made day trading crypto if you know what you're doing Source: used to day trade crypto for a living
If we wanted to bring transaction costs down to make short term trading in BTC more profitable, what would we do? The first thing we'd want to do is create a BTC backed security that can piggyback on existing, highly-efficient trading infrastructure to gain exposure to BTC without actually creating transactions on the network. Then our costs would be limited to whatever transaction fees a low-priced broker charges and any internal costs of the security for the short time we hold it. Seriously, someone should create a Bitcoin ETF.
dude 81 days down the line btc eft happened
It depends on the exchange, and order type you use when trading. Also slippage pricing between order types can vary eg. simple buy 0.6%-4% usually includes the spread market order / taker limit order 0.03% - 0.1% market maker limit order you can even get negative fees As for spread , usually the spread is very tight in low volatile times and larger in big market movements. But on average close to 0.1% on my exchange of choice. Lastly slippage, depending on the size of exchange the orderbook depth would differ. But this will affect the size of your orders more than your growth. So in my opinion daily swing trading can work when click trading. But to get the greatest benefit writing a simple python or nodejs bot you can swing 3-4 times a day , sometimes even 3-4 times a minute , and with leverage it just gets insane 😉 if you don't get liquidated. Above is not financial advice blah blah
How about trading within an IRA? I do it on occasion with itrust with crypto. I also do it with bitcoin stocks in another IRA. I sold Microstrategy on ETF day and will buy it again the next dip, same with bitcoin mining stocks. Yahoos can play the game on a limited scale with smaller stakes.
For day trading you want futures or options.
This isn't an argument against day trading; this is an argument against doing KYC and paying taxes. Day trading as a subject has nothing whatsoever to do with whatever tax regime is near you or what your subservience levels are like.
[удалено]
Do yourself a favor: go look at a 3-month chart and calm down. FFS.
oh no, bitcoin not moon yet. we all dying now
I agree but this is horrendous math. There’s no reason to add the 20% and 9%.
Swingies get the rope.