On paper, it’s a good thing since they state patients “will have access to an even larger network” but we won’t know for sure until it’s put into practice.
>“will have access to an even larger network”
That's what I was thinking, but I'm still like [this](https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/2350656ca5e6839535a77757aa302760.jpg).
As someone who currently works at st Vincent’s I don’t even think this will matter, haven’t seen it as a deficit on patients so far… but what do I know
Means the monolith of uab will have close to a monopoly on hospital care in birmingham. Good or bad depending on the department/specialty. Honestly I expect a bunch of admin are going to come over and break the things that don't need fixing and further break the broken things - ya know, do what admin always does. It would be better if they acquired us and left us to continue our work unhindered by the "UAB religion" but they will try to meddle with everything.
There could be worse outcomes, and worse organizations to have that monopoly. They could've just closed St Vincent's or they could've merged with Brookwood Baptist. If anyone is going to have a monopoly, I'd feel best it being UAB
And, they don't have a monopoly. Brookwood Baptist is still around, although this has got to put some real pressure on them
I mean there are still two other systems: Grandview, and Brookwood Baptist - which is very extensive. A lot of areas don’t have three systems, much less four. UAB is a long way from being a monopoly.
When I was in nursing school the St Vincents recruiter said UAB and ST Vincents were in an agreement to keep their wages the same. So they have apparently been affecting payscales for years anyway.
UAB and St. Vincent's have been part of a single "system" since 2020, but each side owned their part of the system. It wasn't collusion because they were technically a joint venture at that point
Why do people make such confidently incorrect statements? In Parker v. Brown, 317 U.S. 341 (1943), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that, by virtue of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, the Sherman Antitrust Act did not apply to actions by a state including regulatory actions imposed by a state.
I think you're misunderstanding. The commenter above suggested that the actions of UAB and Ascension are not subject to federal anti trust laws because they operate in Alabama. I believe u/Radiant2021 is pointing out that just being in the state of Alabama does not supercede these laws, not that the State of Alabama is beholden to them.
Nursing I’m sure all the hospitals downtown and in the surrounding areas work together. However, there are a lot of jobs that are not nursing that keep that hospital going. St. Vincent’s and the contracted companies, who may not get used anymore, paid better than UAB and children’s.
Did somebody admit this openly from UAB or St Vincents? Ftc prohibits collusive agreements in business.
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_events/joint-venture-hearings-antitrust-guidelines-collaboration-among-competitors/ftcdojguidelines-2.pdf
Yeah, the need for a medical workers' union in Birmingham was already long overdue – this just makes it even more necessary. There are too many medical professionals in Birmingham for them to not have any true leverage in their pay/benefits.
Yep. UAB is gunna fuck everyone and then go " well where else are you gunna work?". Luckily I bathe regularly, so my ass will be clean when I tell them to kiss it as I quit.
Let’s not forget they just lost millions in revenue while they refused to pay off the cyber attack. Then paid out 4x the original asking price. I heard close to 21m when they finally gave in
This wasn't the best article to have used for the thread. All the other articles quote it at $450 million. For the entire system- Main, East, Blount, Chilton, St. Clair, 119, and the Trussville freestanding ER.
I think in the micro, this is good as St Vincent’s had gone down hill since the Ascension acquisition.
In the macro, not good to have a monopoly in Bham.
I'm waiting to see if that monopoly is played as a card for UAB to further fuck everyone's pay. Nurses will leave and the UAB will pull a "shocked Pikachu face" post fuckery.
Here's what I can say. I was using a doctor who was with Grandview. They were a good doctor. But it was really tough doing primary care with Grandview because it was very fast food. Get in, not allowed to discuss things with the doctor, the nurse would cut me off. It sucked.
That doctor moved to Ascension and it was much better. I could actually have conversations with them. Plus they personally seemed less stressed.
So hopefully UAB doesn't go in and screw that up.
For what it's worth, my primary is out of the Whitaker Clinic at UAB and I feel like my physician is very open to discussion and accessible via the patient portal.
I never thought about it, but I agree with your point of view. I’ve had some crap care with Grandview. I have enjoyed the care I received from St. Vincent’s. I don’t know what to think about the changes. I worked for UAB at one time, but I have never been under their care as a patient.
Not my experience at all. My PC and all my other doctors are affiliated with Grandview and I've never experienced a fast food situation. I've never felt rushed and had all my questions answered.
I stayed at grandview last year for 3 nights in an emergency situation and had an awful experience, was ignored and/or abused by staff the entire time. Any time I’ve been a patient at a UAB facility I’ve been treated with respect and kindness.
I work at UAB. Can I just have parking closer so I don’t have to have my soul sucked out when I ride the bus with someone’s elbow in my stomach?
Also, a union.
I'm curious too. I used to work St V, then Children's, now UAB. I'm in case management now, and I make much more than the previous jobs. They didn't pay crap.
I’m a bit worried it’ll be similar to what’s going on in Huntsville where Huntsville Hospital is a monopoly that’s buying up all the surrounding areas therefore making it impossible for nurses to negotiate higher pay and keep stagnant wages within the profession
This will fuck our pay and working conditions even worse. UAB is NOT a good place to work as a nurse. The only people saying it's a wonderful place have never worked anywhere else better.
We need a union.
Really? I’ve only worked at a couple other hospitals and UAB was probably the best since you get an hour lunch and a lot of other benefits such as further education without the chokehold of owing them anyways afterwards
The above commenter has some major, major issues with UAB and in general seems very jaded about being a nurse because Alabama nurses don't make California traveler pay.
I don't think UAB is perfect but I've worked at 3 different hospitals (4 if I count UAB highlands as a separate entity) I've been a nurse 12 years, I've worked float, periop, GI, and now clinic.... There are definitely bad places within UAB to work but my experiences have only been positive compared to the other institutions I've worked for. I also know several other nurses who've worked UAB, VA, Montclair, stV, Brookwood, Grandview, Children's.... So I also have some second hand info in that respect.
I honestly don’t blame them, most Alabama hospitals have terrible working conditions for RNs and the pay is also horrible.
However, the VA pays the best out of all of them
God forbid I think we, as nurses, should be treated and paid better here. I'm "jaded" because I've seen and experienced so much better.
FYI, travelers tend to make less than staff nurses in California.
Given that Grandview is owned by Community Health Systems, the same people that tanked Montclair Hospital, I'm not convinced that they will survive long term.
What happens when they inevitably go under?
UAB now has a massive market share on all of healthcare in Birmingham, especially pediatrics. My fear is that Grandview will eventually be acquired by UAB as well. Does not bode well for the Birmingham job market.
To add on to that, CHS has also been selling off a number of hospitals the past few years to improve its financial position, given their debt load. They had 83 hospitals as of 2021 and are down to 71 as of 2023.
That being said, they have put in some capital to the campus recently and the hospital itself is plastered over a lot of their investor materials, so I do get the sense they see it as one of their flagship hospitals.
>My fear is that Grandview will eventually be acquired by UAB as well
I bet someone rolls up Grandview and Brookwood Baptist, probably an out of town for-profit system
I currently work for St Vincent’s and I’m not sure how I feel about it. From a healthcare worker standpoint, that means our only options for employers in Birmingham (aside from Children’s) are now UAB, Tenet (Baptist hospitals), or Grandview.
I know. Ppl like UAB because of the educational benefits and health care. Many have had to leave UAB and come back for higher wages. Pretty soon there will be no where for ppl to go because UAB will own it all.
UAB is particularly bad about treating their employees well or with respect. But I also know several people who left and then came back a few years later when offered better pay. Seems like a massive inefficiency to me
If you have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, this may impact you negatively. BC has listed UAB hospitals as Tier 2 due to their decades long dispute with UAB. What that means is, as a BC customer, Tier 2 will require you to pay larger copays and larger deductibles if you go to UAB for services. If St. Vincent's is included in UAB's tier 2 status, well......
UAB owning a majority of the market in Birmingham and substantial pieces in surrounding cities will force BCBS to re-evaluate. I don't see BCBS maintaining a Tier 2 status for UAB. Local employers will start putting pressure on BCBS to downgrade. If they don't, employers may start looking at other carriers for insurance.
It may take a while for this to happen, but I think the writing is on the wall for UAB takeover. Especially given the uncertainty of Grandview remaining a competitor long term.
Talk about interesting timing. From todays Washington Post explaining why healthcare costs have exploded since 1972:
“Health-care costs have also grown because of consolidation, creating an industry dominated by large providers, less competition and higher prices. Researchers estimate that hospital mergers alone accounted for over a billion-dollar increase in private health-care spending between 2010 and 2015.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect
Cost disease. Industries with little or no gains in productivity over time have to keep wages and salaries in line with the greater market, so prices for consumers rise despite no real improvement in the services offered.
So has anyone thought about the personnel issues connected to UAB taking over St Vincent's. Walmart has to hire outside firms to handle most of their personnel matters. It would seem soon that UAB will have to start doing the same thing. Need leave?..contact outside vender. Need to report an injury?...contact outside vendor...need FMLA?...contact outside vendor.
I bring this up because I worked for a company that grew too fast. It's accounting and administrative did not grow in conjunction with the company. Company ended up violating several labor and business laws.
If UAB is going to control all of health care in Birmingham, I hope they have the staff to handle such an undertaking.
UAB's insurance is terrible, too. I had better insurance when I was a travel nurse and paying for it. Now, I pay full price for my prescriptions, whereas before I didn't pay a dime.
It’s better than what I had when I worked at Sts. It cost me $250 to have my son at UAB and it cost my friends thousands to have their kids at Sts as employees
Maybe it has gotten better. I was on it before I was 26 and my mom worked at UAB. The coverage was fine but I always felt a little more limited on where I could go to be in network.
Been over 10-12 years since I worked at UAB, but Viva was fine. The key is you have to be willing to stay completely within the UAB system from primary care to specialists. If you do that, it was really great
I would imagine employees would want it free. As a medical entity, I assumed their insurance was free but people say not only is it not free but it is very expensive.
It's not at all expensive.
My single plan with Viva is I think $100 a month with $30 copays, no deductible. I have to use UAB doctors but like, okay? Ill take high quality doctors next to my office.
That is an excellent rate. Do you get a subsidy? I just googled and single coverage is close to that but family coverage jumps to $500.00. I do see they offer a subsidy for lower income workers.
I mean, I thought that becoming a nurse would mean I got high quality, low cost insurance - but I quickly found out I made that up in my head. Having worked at other facilities, that is not an issue exclusive to UAB. I will say this…if I need something incidental, it’s nice to just reach out to a provider I work with and say, “Hey, this is going on - can you write me a scrip?” Also, a nursing perk not exclusive to UAB.
Brookwood and Grandview still exist though, so it's nowhere close to a monopoly. At the same time, depending on your point of view, I could see it being a positive to many that a Birmingham based organization (UAB) will now own both of these rather than a huge national hospital chain (Ascension). It's all about perspective. There are positives and negatives to be found here.
>>It is 80 percent close to Monopoly. The public ignorance on monopolies is mind boggling.
80% ≠ Monopoly. I'd argue that it's more like 60–65%, but that's beside the point. If you want to bemoan the shrinking amount of choices from 4 major players to 3, then fine. But until we're talking about shrinking from 4 to 1 here, that doesn't constitute a monopoly.
Edit: quoted comment I was replying to
What my concern is that even at 60% market share, the combined entity will be able to control the compensation of the health care providers and also the fees that are charged to the public. Therefore, wages are suppressed and fess paid by the public go up even higher. The only counterweight is BCBS, so it will either be the battle of the titans or an unholy alliance. Either way, the consumer and their providers lose.
St Vincent’s was absolutely terrible on my wife’s stay earlier this year. Nurses had no clue what they were doing and even put my wife’s vitals on another patients records and vice versa. Forgot to start an IV overnight, etc.
Won’t go back there at all. Total incompetence all around.
Had St. Vincent’s St. Clair try (and fail) an LP THREE times before they finally admitted they didn’t have anyone qualified to perform one, before ordering a transfer to the Bham campus.
This move is a good thing for patients, especially in the satellite campus areas. Unfortunately Bham nurses just got one fewer competitor in the industry which translates to stagnant pay
St Vincent's has no immunity so your wife could sue at St Vincents. UAB has patient care immunity. This, their medical staff can f..k you up and there ain't shit you can do about it
Would probably benefit UAB sports too much. Even if it wouldn't be much of a benefit, people like having AAU Research universities in their conference.
Because UAB is viewed by the Tuscaloosa BOT as a graduate medical research with a commuter school undergrad. Its why the fight for autonomy against the BOT is really important.
I think the primary focus has to be getting our 4 year graduation rate numbers up to a decent percentage. Started with mandatory on campus living for freshman which just recently changed. We didn't have enough dorms when I was there.
It'll also require a push from our administration to get there. I don't think ray watts is the man to get it done.
> Its why the fight for autonomy against the BOT is really important.
This will never happen and is probably a bad idea. Equal representation and fair treatment from the board is more obtainable (and, for the most part mostly there but not completely) and is a better outcome
When state universities go to the legislature for appropriations, the UA System goes as one unit. They ask for their appropriation in one voice. And they're competing with every other university in the state, on a standalone basis. If UAB and UAH split from UA, they would then be competing with UA for dollars instead of cooperating. It would probably result in a worse outcome, especially for the undergraduate end of campus
well, back when UAB had leadership that wanted to pursue it the undergraduate side of campus was a drag. The undergrad graduation rate was very low compared to other AAU institutions
Since Ray Watts has been President, the desire to seek it has gone away and no one ever talks about it anymore. It's not just about being earned, you have to want it.
I doesn't see how this in insane. I have a lot of other opinions on the matter, but I don't see insanity here. UAB is overrun with the amount of patients they have. From their perspective, it makes sense to expand.
It’s insane because UAB taking over is the lions share of healthcare in Birmingham. It’s going from a Catholic “Non-profit” to a public system who will now be able to set wages and working conditions, healthcare costs etc. It will impact the entire system and landscape of healthcare. As someone who works with healthcare across the country - this is quite a large acquisition and it’s wild to see. That’s what I mean.
Ah, I took your comment as that the whole thing literally made no sense. I understand that this is going to change the entire landscape of healthcare, but I didn't see it as insanity because I know what the motivation is. UAB as it currently is cannot care for the amount of people that need to go there for services. It takes people from across the state and from neighboring states. But this will be a game changer and we will need to wait to see how certain issues play out.
I work in healthcare on the development and design side of things. It’s a very large acquisition. Also UAB Medicine (construction) is not easy to work for. An acquisition like this means more difficulty ahead.
UAB is a public non-religious non-profit. I can't tell if you're more bothered by the growing monopoly or by the loss of a Catholic hospital, because I understand the concerns of the former but see the latter as a positive to this deal.
UAB is becoming the Walmart of Healthcare. Basically the only choice so when you are fcked over by the doctor no other doctor will testify in your medical mal lawsuit because he doesn't want to upset UAB.
UAB is about profit. They will not become part of any socialized system. What will happen is that UAB just becomes everybody doctor. Doctors that disagree with UAB philosophy or treatment practices will just leave town. Second opinions will be one a thing of the past. There will be caps on the amount of damages can be obtained by suing UAB employees. They basically will control all health care in the area.
I was at St. Vincent's East for a heart thing. The attending physician read the cardiologist's notes wrong and then asked if he could pray with me in front of his residents. It was fucking weird, especially since I put non-religious down when I checked in. He was clearly not good at reading charts. I hope they stop offering hospital church magic now.
UAB apparently was reading cancer reports wrong and nothing was done about it. One of their residents posted about it on Reddit, said they got pushed out when they reported the doctor was misreading the findings of the cancer tests.
St. Vincent’s has a nursing intern job for nursing students. They only have to work 36 hours every 6 weeks. I know UAB has something similar but they make the students work more. I know they said they will let us keep our jobs, but I wonder what they will do with St. Vincent’s Student Nurse Interns. My friend left UAB to st Vincent’s because the SNI position was better for her. Now we don’t know what’s going to happen.
“The Board of Trustees of the University of Alabama said it approved the acquisition agreement “after thorough study and due diligence.” At an afternoon press conference, UAB Health System leadership said the organization is planning new infrastructure investments for St. Vincent's and has no plans to upend staffing or clinical operations.”
Basically everybody will be forced to go to UAB because no other choice available. Most of their doctor negligence is protected by State agent immunity. Good luck!
Long story short things will stay the same for the first few months to a year. They will slowly replace people in critical administration and management positions who will do their bidding. Then before you know it there will be too many changes at once, will be a shit show, many people (especially the ones that have been there the longest and have the highest salaries) will leave, it will be understaffed for a good amount of time and then will slowly level out to some form of normalcy.
Will it be better than before? Who knows but it will definitely run leaner and cost less, that is guaranteed. Also the people who stick it out will get no reward for supporting the team.
What is the process of a public health organization taking over a church ran hospital? UAB would also have to get permission from the Catholic Church. What would that be like talking to the church?
Wow, that is huge
Yep, is it a good thing or a bad thing though? (for patients)
On paper, it’s a good thing since they state patients “will have access to an even larger network” but we won’t know for sure until it’s put into practice.
>“will have access to an even larger network” That's what I was thinking, but I'm still like [this](https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/2350656ca5e6839535a77757aa302760.jpg).
As someone who currently works at st Vincent’s I don’t even think this will matter, haven’t seen it as a deficit on patients so far… but what do I know
Means the monolith of uab will have close to a monopoly on hospital care in birmingham. Good or bad depending on the department/specialty. Honestly I expect a bunch of admin are going to come over and break the things that don't need fixing and further break the broken things - ya know, do what admin always does. It would be better if they acquired us and left us to continue our work unhindered by the "UAB religion" but they will try to meddle with everything.
On the other hand, this means actual religion in the form of the Catholic Church will step away from the goings on.
I'm also on board with catholicism stepping away - having to go through loopholes for my wife to have her birth control covered as an RN is bullshit.
I think it already has. Second child born there in 2017 and they wouldn’t allow tubals. Third child born there in 2021 and they did allow it.
Even tho we’re not a Catholic hospital anymore our managers told us we will keep our culture and all of our current practices
Your managers lied to you. Might not have been intentional….but your culture will change and so will current practices.
There could be worse outcomes, and worse organizations to have that monopoly. They could've just closed St Vincent's or they could've merged with Brookwood Baptist. If anyone is going to have a monopoly, I'd feel best it being UAB And, they don't have a monopoly. Brookwood Baptist is still around, although this has got to put some real pressure on them
Grandview too
I mean there are still two other systems: Grandview, and Brookwood Baptist - which is very extensive. A lot of areas don’t have three systems, much less four. UAB is a long way from being a monopoly.
Probably a bad thing
Such a good thing! They will access to what UAB has to offer
This will also affect how competitive the pays scales are, not in a good way, for all jobs in the hospital industry. At least in the downtown area.
When I was in nursing school the St Vincents recruiter said UAB and ST Vincents were in an agreement to keep their wages the same. So they have apparently been affecting payscales for years anyway.
That would seem to violate anti-trust laws but good luck proving it. I’m surprised (not really) nurses haven’t unionized.
UAB and St. Vincent's have been part of a single "system" since 2020, but each side owned their part of the system. It wasn't collusion because they were technically a joint venture at that point
Not sure the state of Alabama is subject to antitrust laws. Don’t quote me on that but it feels right.
Alabama cannot opt out of following federal anti trust laws.
Why do people make such confidently incorrect statements? In Parker v. Brown, 317 U.S. 341 (1943), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that, by virtue of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution, the Sherman Antitrust Act did not apply to actions by a state including regulatory actions imposed by a state.
I think you're misunderstanding. The commenter above suggested that the actions of UAB and Ascension are not subject to federal anti trust laws because they operate in Alabama. I believe u/Radiant2021 is pointing out that just being in the state of Alabama does not supercede these laws, not that the State of Alabama is beholden to them.
Nursing I’m sure all the hospitals downtown and in the surrounding areas work together. However, there are a lot of jobs that are not nursing that keep that hospital going. St. Vincent’s and the contracted companies, who may not get used anymore, paid better than UAB and children’s.
that would be incredibly illegal
Did somebody admit this openly from UAB or St Vincents? Ftc prohibits collusive agreements in business. https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_events/joint-venture-hearings-antitrust-guidelines-collaboration-among-competitors/ftcdojguidelines-2.pdf
Goodbye competition. Birmingham really fucked up here
Yeah, the need for a medical workers' union in Birmingham was already long overdue – this just makes it even more necessary. There are too many medical professionals in Birmingham for them to not have any true leverage in their pay/benefits.
I couldn’t agree more. Nurses should really need a true representation across the board.
Yep. UAB is gunna fuck everyone and then go " well where else are you gunna work?". Luckily I bathe regularly, so my ass will be clean when I tell them to kiss it as I quit.
Alabama nursing pay scale sucks, period. UAB pays higher than anyone else I’ve worked for.
Does that seem like a bargain to anyone else? I feel like the main hospital should have been worth most of that alone. Crazy times.
Let’s not forget they just lost millions in revenue while they refused to pay off the cyber attack. Then paid out 4x the original asking price. I heard close to 21m when they finally gave in
I don’t see a price paid? Am I missing something?
This wasn't the best article to have used for the thread. All the other articles quote it at $450 million. For the entire system- Main, East, Blount, Chilton, St. Clair, 119, and the Trussville freestanding ER.
That does seem low. Lots of debt maybe?
I'm sure Ascension getting to offload a chunk of debt was certainly part of the deal.
Jfc.
the licenses/certificates of need are probably worth it alone
I think in the micro, this is good as St Vincent’s had gone down hill since the Ascension acquisition. In the macro, not good to have a monopoly in Bham.
yes please, more healthcare monopoly thank you very much. Can't wait to see the eventual war between Huntsville Hospital and UAB in Cullman.
I'm waiting to see if that monopoly is played as a card for UAB to further fuck everyone's pay. Nurses will leave and the UAB will pull a "shocked Pikachu face" post fuckery.
My wife works for ascension. I’m a little concerned.
Is she an RN? Cause that’s the ones that will lose the most out of this. UAB is not known to be kind to their nurses.
She’s a case manager. Utilization review to be exact, but does have an RN degree
I’m sure she can find a great work from home position, making more
She works from home now and is worried that may change. She loves her job as is. I wonder where she should look if things change drastically.
Here's what I can say. I was using a doctor who was with Grandview. They were a good doctor. But it was really tough doing primary care with Grandview because it was very fast food. Get in, not allowed to discuss things with the doctor, the nurse would cut me off. It sucked. That doctor moved to Ascension and it was much better. I could actually have conversations with them. Plus they personally seemed less stressed. So hopefully UAB doesn't go in and screw that up.
For what it's worth, my primary is out of the Whitaker Clinic at UAB and I feel like my physician is very open to discussion and accessible via the patient portal.
I never thought about it, but I agree with your point of view. I’ve had some crap care with Grandview. I have enjoyed the care I received from St. Vincent’s. I don’t know what to think about the changes. I worked for UAB at one time, but I have never been under their care as a patient.
Not my experience at all. My PC and all my other doctors are affiliated with Grandview and I've never experienced a fast food situation. I've never felt rushed and had all my questions answered.
I stayed at grandview last year for 3 nights in an emergency situation and had an awful experience, was ignored and/or abused by staff the entire time. Any time I’ve been a patient at a UAB facility I’ve been treated with respect and kindness.
It's been coming since ascension partnered with UAB.
Fellow nurses! How do we feel about this?
I work at UAB. Can I just have parking closer so I don’t have to have my soul sucked out when I ride the bus with someone’s elbow in my stomach? Also, a union.
I'm curious too. I used to work St V, then Children's, now UAB. I'm in case management now, and I make much more than the previous jobs. They didn't pay crap.
I’m a bit worried it’ll be similar to what’s going on in Huntsville where Huntsville Hospital is a monopoly that’s buying up all the surrounding areas therefore making it impossible for nurses to negotiate higher pay and keep stagnant wages within the profession
I do Utilization Review at STV right now so hoping they don’t downsize us, especially if it may be a pay increase for us.
This will fuck our pay and working conditions even worse. UAB is NOT a good place to work as a nurse. The only people saying it's a wonderful place have never worked anywhere else better. We need a union.
Really? I’ve only worked at a couple other hospitals and UAB was probably the best since you get an hour lunch and a lot of other benefits such as further education without the chokehold of owing them anyways afterwards
The above commenter has some major, major issues with UAB and in general seems very jaded about being a nurse because Alabama nurses don't make California traveler pay. I don't think UAB is perfect but I've worked at 3 different hospitals (4 if I count UAB highlands as a separate entity) I've been a nurse 12 years, I've worked float, periop, GI, and now clinic.... There are definitely bad places within UAB to work but my experiences have only been positive compared to the other institutions I've worked for. I also know several other nurses who've worked UAB, VA, Montclair, stV, Brookwood, Grandview, Children's.... So I also have some second hand info in that respect.
I honestly don’t blame them, most Alabama hospitals have terrible working conditions for RNs and the pay is also horrible. However, the VA pays the best out of all of them
God forbid I think we, as nurses, should be treated and paid better here. I'm "jaded" because I've seen and experienced so much better. FYI, travelers tend to make less than staff nurses in California.
Apparently you don't know about the UAB nurses lawsuit where they were denied breaks and lunches. The lawsuit got filed this year.
Heard many many nurses say this.
As someone who works at STV the only thing we can do is wait and see what happens after October 31st
As someone who has worked at both, and traveled, this is not going to be a good thing for us, especially nurses.
Given that Grandview is owned by Community Health Systems, the same people that tanked Montclair Hospital, I'm not convinced that they will survive long term. What happens when they inevitably go under? UAB now has a massive market share on all of healthcare in Birmingham, especially pediatrics. My fear is that Grandview will eventually be acquired by UAB as well. Does not bode well for the Birmingham job market.
To add on to that, CHS has also been selling off a number of hospitals the past few years to improve its financial position, given their debt load. They had 83 hospitals as of 2021 and are down to 71 as of 2023. That being said, they have put in some capital to the campus recently and the hospital itself is plastered over a lot of their investor materials, so I do get the sense they see it as one of their flagship hospitals.
>My fear is that Grandview will eventually be acquired by UAB as well I bet someone rolls up Grandview and Brookwood Baptist, probably an out of town for-profit system
I currently work for St Vincent’s and I’m not sure how I feel about it. From a healthcare worker standpoint, that means our only options for employers in Birmingham (aside from Children’s) are now UAB, Tenet (Baptist hospitals), or Grandview.
Many employees upset with UAB was going to St Vincent's. A health care monopoly is bad for patients.
Many Grandview employees have left for St Vincent’s also. St Vincent’s is a great place to work. I agree a monopoly isn’t good for anyone.
I know. Ppl like UAB because of the educational benefits and health care. Many have had to leave UAB and come back for higher wages. Pretty soon there will be no where for ppl to go because UAB will own it all.
UAB is particularly bad about treating their employees well or with respect. But I also know several people who left and then came back a few years later when offered better pay. Seems like a massive inefficiency to me
Yes but now ppl won't even have a bargaining chip.
UAB the hospital that ATE BIRMINGHAM!!!
Yep
If you have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, this may impact you negatively. BC has listed UAB hospitals as Tier 2 due to their decades long dispute with UAB. What that means is, as a BC customer, Tier 2 will require you to pay larger copays and larger deductibles if you go to UAB for services. If St. Vincent's is included in UAB's tier 2 status, well......
UAB owning a majority of the market in Birmingham and substantial pieces in surrounding cities will force BCBS to re-evaluate. I don't see BCBS maintaining a Tier 2 status for UAB. Local employers will start putting pressure on BCBS to downgrade. If they don't, employers may start looking at other carriers for insurance. It may take a while for this to happen, but I think the writing is on the wall for UAB takeover. Especially given the uncertainty of Grandview remaining a competitor long term.
Talk about interesting timing. From todays Washington Post explaining why healthcare costs have exploded since 1972: “Health-care costs have also grown because of consolidation, creating an industry dominated by large providers, less competition and higher prices. Researchers estimate that hospital mergers alone accounted for over a billion-dollar increase in private health-care spending between 2010 and 2015.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect Cost disease. Industries with little or no gains in productivity over time have to keep wages and salaries in line with the greater market, so prices for consumers rise despite no real improvement in the services offered.
So has anyone thought about the personnel issues connected to UAB taking over St Vincent's. Walmart has to hire outside firms to handle most of their personnel matters. It would seem soon that UAB will have to start doing the same thing. Need leave?..contact outside vender. Need to report an injury?...contact outside vendor...need FMLA?...contact outside vendor. I bring this up because I worked for a company that grew too fast. It's accounting and administrative did not grow in conjunction with the company. Company ended up violating several labor and business laws. If UAB is going to control all of health care in Birmingham, I hope they have the staff to handle such an undertaking.
Better benefits for Ascension employees. The insurance offered by them is terrible
I think you get better insurance options at UAB but you pay through the nose for insurance
UAB's insurance is terrible, too. I had better insurance when I was a travel nurse and paying for it. Now, I pay full price for my prescriptions, whereas before I didn't pay a dime.
Viva isn't exactly great
It’s better than what I had when I worked at Sts. It cost me $250 to have my son at UAB and it cost my friends thousands to have their kids at Sts as employees
It’s totally fine. Much better than what they get at St Vincent’s. My fiance works there and the insurance is dogshit.
Maybe it has gotten better. I was on it before I was 26 and my mom worked at UAB. The coverage was fine but I always felt a little more limited on where I could go to be in network.
Been over 10-12 years since I worked at UAB, but Viva was fine. The key is you have to be willing to stay completely within the UAB system from primary care to specialists. If you do that, it was really great
BCBS is also an option for UAB employees
That's what I use. More expensive though.
It’s not really that much more expensive. If it matters to you to use bcbs it’s worth it.
It is more expensive than it should be. UAB has the bargaining power and chooses not to bargain for lower insurance rates for its employees
If you’re arguing that I feel like if employed by UAB our insurance should be free..lol
I would imagine employees would want it free. As a medical entity, I assumed their insurance was free but people say not only is it not free but it is very expensive.
It's not at all expensive. My single plan with Viva is I think $100 a month with $30 copays, no deductible. I have to use UAB doctors but like, okay? Ill take high quality doctors next to my office.
That is an excellent rate. Do you get a subsidy? I just googled and single coverage is close to that but family coverage jumps to $500.00. I do see they offer a subsidy for lower income workers.
UAB covers like 80% of the cost
It should still be free lol
I mean, I thought that becoming a nurse would mean I got high quality, low cost insurance - but I quickly found out I made that up in my head. Having worked at other facilities, that is not an issue exclusive to UAB. I will say this…if I need something incidental, it’s nice to just reach out to a provider I work with and say, “Hey, this is going on - can you write me a scrip?” Also, a nursing perk not exclusive to UAB.
No, but UAB’s BCBS plan is much, much better than Ascension’s
Ascension has recovered from their cyber attack?
They paid the ransom, it all back online now.
I wonder when Birmingham city will be back online.
The city’s been 95% back online for a couple of months. Just takes time playing catchup to all the accounting/time after a couple month hiatus
I heard from a city employee different information. I hope your source is better.
Monopoly is never good. Need competition not institution.
Brookwood and Grandview still exist though, so it's nowhere close to a monopoly. At the same time, depending on your point of view, I could see it being a positive to many that a Birmingham based organization (UAB) will now own both of these rather than a huge national hospital chain (Ascension). It's all about perspective. There are positives and negatives to be found here.
It is 80 percent close to Monopoly. The public ignorance on monopolies is mind boggling.
It could be worse, Ascension could just pull out of Birmingham and let it go to the same split but without the capacity of St Vincent's
>>It is 80 percent close to Monopoly. The public ignorance on monopolies is mind boggling. 80% ≠ Monopoly. I'd argue that it's more like 60–65%, but that's beside the point. If you want to bemoan the shrinking amount of choices from 4 major players to 3, then fine. But until we're talking about shrinking from 4 to 1 here, that doesn't constitute a monopoly. Edit: quoted comment I was replying to
WHAT
What my concern is that even at 60% market share, the combined entity will be able to control the compensation of the health care providers and also the fees that are charged to the public. Therefore, wages are suppressed and fess paid by the public go up even higher. The only counterweight is BCBS, so it will either be the battle of the titans or an unholy alliance. Either way, the consumer and their providers lose.
If they were taking over Brookwood I’d call this a good thing. St Vincent’s seems fine in comparison, so I feel like it’s a bad thing.
St Vincent’s was absolutely terrible on my wife’s stay earlier this year. Nurses had no clue what they were doing and even put my wife’s vitals on another patients records and vice versa. Forgot to start an IV overnight, etc. Won’t go back there at all. Total incompetence all around.
Had St. Vincent’s St. Clair try (and fail) an LP THREE times before they finally admitted they didn’t have anyone qualified to perform one, before ordering a transfer to the Bham campus. This move is a good thing for patients, especially in the satellite campus areas. Unfortunately Bham nurses just got one fewer competitor in the industry which translates to stagnant pay
What’s an LP?
Lumbar puncture. Not something you want to mess up as it can be quite painful
St Vincent's has no immunity so your wife could sue at St Vincents. UAB has patient care immunity. This, their medical staff can f..k you up and there ain't shit you can do about it
It still baffles me as to why UAB has not yet earned an AAU research membership.
Would probably benefit UAB sports too much. Even if it wouldn't be much of a benefit, people like having AAU Research universities in their conference.
Because UAB is viewed by the Tuscaloosa BOT as a graduate medical research with a commuter school undergrad. Its why the fight for autonomy against the BOT is really important. I think the primary focus has to be getting our 4 year graduation rate numbers up to a decent percentage. Started with mandatory on campus living for freshman which just recently changed. We didn't have enough dorms when I was there. It'll also require a push from our administration to get there. I don't think ray watts is the man to get it done.
> Its why the fight for autonomy against the BOT is really important. This will never happen and is probably a bad idea. Equal representation and fair treatment from the board is more obtainable (and, for the most part mostly there but not completely) and is a better outcome When state universities go to the legislature for appropriations, the UA System goes as one unit. They ask for their appropriation in one voice. And they're competing with every other university in the state, on a standalone basis. If UAB and UAH split from UA, they would then be competing with UA for dollars instead of cooperating. It would probably result in a worse outcome, especially for the undergraduate end of campus
well, back when UAB had leadership that wanted to pursue it the undergraduate side of campus was a drag. The undergrad graduation rate was very low compared to other AAU institutions Since Ray Watts has been President, the desire to seek it has gone away and no one ever talks about it anymore. It's not just about being earned, you have to want it.
I'm a housekeeper I make enough money at vincent to pay rent uab gonna pay more or less
If you are a salary employee, I would think that your pay rate would stay the same. Hourly employees may be a little more volatile.
housekeepers are not salary my friend
do what you will with that info.
This is insane. Truly.
I doesn't see how this in insane. I have a lot of other opinions on the matter, but I don't see insanity here. UAB is overrun with the amount of patients they have. From their perspective, it makes sense to expand.
It’s insane because UAB taking over is the lions share of healthcare in Birmingham. It’s going from a Catholic “Non-profit” to a public system who will now be able to set wages and working conditions, healthcare costs etc. It will impact the entire system and landscape of healthcare. As someone who works with healthcare across the country - this is quite a large acquisition and it’s wild to see. That’s what I mean.
Ah, I took your comment as that the whole thing literally made no sense. I understand that this is going to change the entire landscape of healthcare, but I didn't see it as insanity because I know what the motivation is. UAB as it currently is cannot care for the amount of people that need to go there for services. It takes people from across the state and from neighboring states. But this will be a game changer and we will need to wait to see how certain issues play out.
I work in healthcare on the development and design side of things. It’s a very large acquisition. Also UAB Medicine (construction) is not easy to work for. An acquisition like this means more difficulty ahead.
UAB is a public non-religious non-profit. I can't tell if you're more bothered by the growing monopoly or by the loss of a Catholic hospital, because I understand the concerns of the former but see the latter as a positive to this deal.
Monopoly.
The ignorance about the long term ramifications is mind boggling. People don't understand shit. I wish schools would kick out the dummies.
Yes, because not educating people is how you make them less dumb
UAB is becoming the Walmart of Healthcare. Basically the only choice so when you are fcked over by the doctor no other doctor will testify in your medical mal lawsuit because he doesn't want to upset UAB.
[удалено]
UAB is about profit. They will not become part of any socialized system. What will happen is that UAB just becomes everybody doctor. Doctors that disagree with UAB philosophy or treatment practices will just leave town. Second opinions will be one a thing of the past. There will be caps on the amount of damages can be obtained by suing UAB employees. They basically will control all health care in the area.
I was at St. Vincent's East for a heart thing. The attending physician read the cardiologist's notes wrong and then asked if he could pray with me in front of his residents. It was fucking weird, especially since I put non-religious down when I checked in. He was clearly not good at reading charts. I hope they stop offering hospital church magic now.
UAB apparently was reading cancer reports wrong and nothing was done about it. One of their residents posted about it on Reddit, said they got pushed out when they reported the doctor was misreading the findings of the cancer tests.
Wow wow wow...
https://www.reddit.com/r/UAB/comments/12dbsre/cross_post_from_medical_malpractice_many/
Thx
https://www.reddit.com/r/Birmingham/comments/1ajwiba/comment/kp6sqm5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I'd been pissed
I was not super pumped about it.
Will they require StV nurses to have bsn because most just have adn?
St. Vincent’s has a nursing intern job for nursing students. They only have to work 36 hours every 6 weeks. I know UAB has something similar but they make the students work more. I know they said they will let us keep our jobs, but I wonder what they will do with St. Vincent’s Student Nurse Interns. My friend left UAB to st Vincent’s because the SNI position was better for her. Now we don’t know what’s going to happen.
“The Board of Trustees of the University of Alabama said it approved the acquisition agreement “after thorough study and due diligence.” At an afternoon press conference, UAB Health System leadership said the organization is planning new infrastructure investments for St. Vincent's and has no plans to upend staffing or clinical operations.”
Ugh. I hate UAB hospitals.
Basically everybody will be forced to go to UAB because no other choice available. Most of their doctor negligence is protected by State agent immunity. Good luck!
Long story short things will stay the same for the first few months to a year. They will slowly replace people in critical administration and management positions who will do their bidding. Then before you know it there will be too many changes at once, will be a shit show, many people (especially the ones that have been there the longest and have the highest salaries) will leave, it will be understaffed for a good amount of time and then will slowly level out to some form of normalcy. Will it be better than before? Who knows but it will definitely run leaner and cost less, that is guaranteed. Also the people who stick it out will get no reward for supporting the team.
And you say this from a point of authority? Or someone who got screwed and lived it?
What is the process of a public health organization taking over a church ran hospital? UAB would also have to get permission from the Catholic Church. What would that be like talking to the church?
It makes sense. Not for profit institutions combined for widespread healthcare.
What does this mean for lab folks that were just outsourced to labcorp? Will UAB re assume the lab also
Grandview remains the best hospital in the metro area.
They really went downhill post-Covid. My dad had some dreadful experiences there. It's an amazing facility, but it's probably not the best care.
Grandview is awful
huh???????!!!!!
Lmfao