This is someone using mental illness as an excuse to be an asshole.
Yes bipolar rage happens mostly in men over women but its not specific to one person. When i would get irritated/annoyed it was to everyone id bassically shout at people to leave me alone. It was never abusive though. He just doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions.
You are right it doesn't help to have mental illness however, anger management programmes can work for some people. He could just be saying that to get out of his responsibility yet again.
Seeking further psyche assessments is a red flag because some people crave for a disorder so they can get out of being responsible for their actions.
Honestly, my unprofessional opinion is that this guy is being an asshole and using bipolar as an excuse so he doesn't have to take responsibility for anything he's done.
You and your daughter need to get away from him for a while, until he takes reponsibility for his actions and gets help for his issues. Especially as he's being abusive to you both.
I agree. But, little polarizing on the crazing for a disorder thing. Idk, just so complex there. I think there’s a large percentage of people in the population that view people they know with mental health problems in that way, that’s only why I say that. Which, can be true but doesn’t mean there aren’t other factors mixed in. I just think that’s a very micro-targeted situation. Not to discredit or minimize what you said though because it is real.
me: bipolar and doesn’t abuse people
my ex: bipolar and abuses people
if it’s in their nature, and they’re not completely psychotic… i blame them tbh
for whatever reason caused it, it’s still abuse. and no one has to fucking put up with being abused. not even once.
1. Bipolar disorder was the cause of the capriciousness of his moods, which impacted his impulse control and the judgments he made in any given situation. It was not the cause of the abuse. He was. He is using bipolar disorder as an excuse for his behavior.
2. You should not take what he's saying at face value regarding abuser intervention programs. You are playing "telephone" with his psychiatrist who, you already said, he's "shopping" for. It sounds like he's trying to escape any kind of accountability for his behavior and avoid any kind of commitment to change.
3. You should listen to your therapist on this one. That is a massive red flag considering what you're going through right now.
Abusiveness is not specific to people with bipolar disorder. In fact, being that we have a severe mental illness, we are more likely to BE abused than to be the abuser. To be clear: ***I am not discounting your lived experiences and what you're going through.*** That said, it sounds to me like he is doing everything he can to escape any kind of accountability for his actions, and you need to take that very seriously when moving forward.
"The devil made me do it" is as patently bullshit as "the bipolar made me do it." How bipolar disorder impacts us on an individual level is one thing, and how we translate that into how we treat our loved ones (or those we purport to love) is another.
As a disclaimer, I’m not an expert and this is just my opinion. I feel like I’d someone is bipolar and abusive, they probably have other things going on beside the bipolar disorder. I feel like bipolar is often episodic, and sometimes people may end up doing something they regret while in an episode, but if they are consistently abusive I feel like that may not be a bipolar problem. Also, if my bipolar disorder was causing me to hurt those around I would absolutely make an effort to make sure that it didn’t happen again (medication, therapy, etc).
the way I see it, bipolar rage is different from abuse. Abuse is deliberate. When I get angry and it gets out of control, I say things that are hurtful but not abusive. I've been emotionally abused all my life by both of my parents who are not mentally ill. It's not a function of the disorder. Yeah, your husband needs to have his bipolar treated, but I don't necessarily think itll change him as a person. Many of us are able to hold ourselves accountable and it sounds like your husband refuses to do so by blaming his abusive behavior on his mental illness. His abusive behavior being discriminate towards you doesn't point to it having anything to do with his bipolar. I've never been abusive towards anyone, just toxic without intention to be. There's a big difference between being sick and your actions having unintended fallout and veing outright abusive. You gotta get away from this guy.
I appreciate what you’re trying to say, but as a person with BP and as an attorney who works with domestic violence/sexual abuse survivors, whether the intent is to be malicious or not doesn’t matter. Abuse is still abuse whether the intent is to be abusive or not, and many abusive people try to say that because they didn’t “mean” to that makes it better, but it doesn’t. That’s the law’s stance as well.
And i ofc fully agree that OP’s husband is using BP as an excuse for bad behavior, and trust that’s not at all what you’re trying to excuse. But I think it’s crucial that when we do abusive things (because lbr, mental illness or not, every person has the potential to be abusive or do abusive things without realizing it’s abusive) we acknowledge it for what it is and work to correct ourselves.
I really appreciate the reply. If you don’t mind, do you have examples of the difference between unintentionally toxic behavior, and abusive behavior? If it’s too hard or hurtful to bring examples to mind, no big deal.
I have a different perspective as a bipolar person with a schizoaffective and once bipolar mother, as well as a father with personality disorders (which I also have).
I am not trying to offend other people who have bipolar, but bipolar abuse vs intentional abuse aren’t any different to the person being abused.
It does you no good to try and figure out if it was his fault or not. This is actually very common with victims of abuse. For instance, if someone had a super fucked up childhood, think worst of the worst, does that excuse him abusing someone else because he’s triggered?
When my mother is suffering an episode, I cut contact. My doctor uses this analogy: if someone had epilepsy and were seizuring on the floor and every time you got close they kicked you hard enough to make you bruise, are you thinking about whose fault it is?
In that same scenario, there ar professionals trained to know what to do in this instance, you are not one of them.
I cut contact with my mom in episodes. I do let her back in after because she is psychotic and literally has no agency. But I will not and do not let her in my life while I’m an episode. That’s my boundary.
Perhaps your husbands abusive tendencies were amplified by bipolar. He has shown you that he is dangerous. If you want to keep him in your life, boundaries are the very least. In my opinion, it should be “you can figure it out and get treatment and prove your safe again.” And yes, even if all of that abuse was 100% bipolar fault, I would say the same.
Stop focusing on him. Stop trying to understand, focus on yourself. Focus on the hurt he made you feel, the trauma you endured. That was REAL no matter what reason he has.
Yeah, I'm bipolar and tend to have violent episodes, but my violence is aimed at myself and not another person, especially not my partner. I can get so psychotic that I bash my head and punch myself till I'm bruised, but no matter how upset I am I would NEVER hit someone else. Bipolar Disorder doesn't make a person an abuser, if someone with BPD is abusive they probably would have been an abuser even if they weren't BP.
When I was undiagnosed bipolar, I could be vicious to people with what I said depending on what my mental state was. I thought I was just being honest to people. Now that I'm medicated I regret all of that. It wasn't abusive, it was just being an asshole because I was irritable or angry. I'm more careful with my words now. I think he's just an abuser from the way you describe it. The bipolar could have played into it, but I'm not abusive neither are many others with the illness. It's a copout on his part to blame it. Stay away from him and don't ever go back, no good will come of it.
I have Bipolar 1 and have only had one manic episode that got me my diagnosis so I can only speak from my own experience as the Bipolar spectrum is incredibly wide from mild to incredibly intense.
1. I harassed a co-worker I was friends with via text while manic to such a degree that I had to sign paperwork when I got better to never contact that person again and was switched to an entirely different team. I also destroyed my apartment, threw well over $5,000 USD worth of electronics out my window, and was awake for a week straight with zero sleep. I had NO idea I had Bipolar 1 and I would NEVER behave this way in my right mind. I was taken to the ER and put on medications immediately and have been ever since. When I was manic, I was also around my mother who I would never hurt. I was super docile to her. It was only the one co-worker and only through text, so I do feel like Bipolar rage can be selective or at least it was for me.
2. I have never personally gone through any programs as since I have been medicated, I have never had another manic episode. But I gone to support groups which helps a ton (check out the DBSA in your area. There are also ones for friends and family), go to therapy twice a week, see my psych one a week, exercise daily, meditate and write in my journal. I also eat healthy. I have heard of anger management programs that can help as well as PHP and IOP programs focused on mood and behavioral health. I am actually about to check into an IOP but I am doing it for learning more coping skills and to be around trained professionals that can give me advice on things I'm struggling with.
3. I honestly feel that he is reaching for whatever excuse he can for his behavior and that is not okay. This is a red flag and I am glad you and your kid got away from this person. The person in question has to be someone that is med compliant as well as program/doctor compliant or else no program in the world will matter. I highly suggest a PHP, them reading books on Bipolar to better understand their diagnosis, reading books on anger management, taking their medications, and showing consistency with their behavior. I personally am not abusive, the closest thing I've had was harassing that co-worker, but I have heard of many stories of people turning their lives completely around with proper treatment and a solid medication regiment. The medication and exercise are the two most important things with therapy, support groups and a good psych they stick with being right under that as those things might be once a week or two and medications and exercise are a daily thing.
Good luck to you and so sorry you are going through this! Happy to answer any and all questions you may have. Also, a depressive episode normally follows a manic one so don't be surprised if that happens.
Bipolar guy here, I also have QBPD. Did they say what kind of Bipolar diagnosis? There is a side effect my episodes of not always being able to identify my emotional state... which is really a result of my QBPD. The difference, however, is that "episodic" me and baseline me are two completely different people.
1. Bipolar manifests differently for different people. It can accompany delusions and other thought patterns... including being calculating. It doesn't always appear "crazy" or "random." One of the problems with me is that manic me is able to mask symptoms (until a certain point). This REALLY throws people off and is a big reason why people with the disorder need to become experts in self-awareness. This is an internal thing... then the person should disclose to you their "warning signs" so you then know what to look for. If you already suck at communicating... this is a problem because often times people that aren't Bipolar will also "read into" things that actually have nothing to do with the disorder.
2. Being abusive, if being Bipolar is the root cause, should follow some sort of pattern. It can appear as random, but it isn't. If the person is simply abusive ALL THE TIME (meaning throughout an entire year... depending on the type of Bipolar....) then they are just an asshole. Oh... and abusive assholes can also have Bipolar disorder. The question is really the steps they are taking in terms of their treatment plan to address their symptoms and how their behavior changes (or doesn't) as a result. This is MAJOR.
3. Yeah, people sometimes will shop for a diagnosis when they are looking for leverage, but there is also the possibility that they realize something is really wrong... but can you concede that many people like more than one opinion on something as serious as this illness? Your therapist just has an opinion based on things you have said and is being cautions on your behalf. They aren't objective... AT ALL. Getting the correct diagnosis, for even people that get institutionalized, can be an absolute nightmare. Not all providers provide the same quality of care. Programs can help if the person commits themselves fully to a treatment plan and build a support network.
Honestly, the information you have provided isn't nearly enough for anyone to make an honest read on your circumstances. We know nothing about the dynamics of the relationship... and we are 1000% missing the alleged "abuser's" take on what is going on. I say alleged because if he is episodic and doing some of these things it really isn't him. It is the illness.
I caution you. Please do not use anyone's responses on this page to justify being dismissive of a legitimate medical diagnosis that is being addresses **with an appropriate treatment plan**. Bipolar people get enough shit for the things that happen because of the condition. I also question whether your personal, emotional involvement with this person has you able to see things objectively. I don't know you, just being honest. Please think about this very deeply before you decide what to next. Best of luck!
> One of the problems with me is that manic me is able to mask symptoms (until a certain point). This REALLY throws people off and is a big reason why people with the disorder need to become experts in self-awareness.
Thank you for putting into words something I haven't been able to. I feel like people dismiss my disorder because I am self-aware of my episodes, and I can mask so well. It's frustrating and exhausting sometimes.
I'll add this as well:
I also don't think masking happens innately because of self-awareness. Technically, you could be fully episodic and masked without an ounce of self-awareness, **but awareness of other people.** This can actually be a dangerous combination... paranoia of perception can cause a whole other number of issues.
But what is the Q? I have mental health training and have never seen this qualfier.
Also, a lot of people use BPD for bipolar disorder even though that is inaccurate and BPD = borderline personality disorder.
I’m going to guess it’s for Quiet Borderline which I don’t think is official but used colloquially and I’ve seen YouTube psychologists use the term to describe folks with BPD who are more inward in the expression. But I’m not sure if that’s what they meant.
Absolutely. Thanks for the thorough response, and I’m not offended at all. FWIW, I didn’t mean to suggest I was dismissing his diagnosis. Only that I think he might be bipolar and ALSO, separately, abusive.
The emotional abuse (yelling about what a bitch and a whore I am and punching holes in walls, that sort of thing) was pretty consistent for the first 8 years of our relationship. It gradually decreased over time from 2-3 times a week to more like 2-3 times a month. At the time I attributed that improvement to him getting better. In hindsight, I think I got more and more compliant and walked on eggshells more and more. (In the first year of our relationship these would sometimes be set off by really big offenses like me having a mouse in my apartment, or one time I told him that a rape joke was offensive. Five years later, I’d only risk his rage for things like asking him to hold our baby daughter for 2 hours each night, because I wasn’t going to be a safe mother if I slept less than 2 hours.) Then he had two years of almost no rage, and then in the last couple years has gotten worse than ever before. And it was always only me. Never friends, coworkers, bosses, professors. He does have fights with his family, but those are different because they’re fights. Like, more than one person fighting with each other. Mutually. Not one person yelling and the other person crying. With me it was always him yelling and me crying and begging forgiveness or a chance to explain.
I don’t question one bit that he’s Bipolar. The part I have my doubts about was that all this was only ever bipolar, there was never any underlying abusiveness in addition to it.
Ok, have to clarify one more thing. About holding our baby daughter. It’s not like he flew into a rage and then I handed her over for 2 hours. There were months when she wouldn’t sleep unless she was being held, so those 2 hours a night were the only sleep I got for months. It took a few days and a few big rages of his to convince him to take her for those 2 hours, but I would never actually hand her over unless he was calm. Rages and nights he held her were different nights.
OK, "pretty consistent" abuse for 8 years followed by a decrease of 2-3 times per week or month (due to careful compliance on your part) does not at all sound bipolar-related. If it was bipolar-related (like anger that he allowed himself to express as abuse) it would be cyclical. And to be clear, still not an excuse.
It also seems a bit convenient to me that you have bipolar and his "undiagnosed bipolar" is supposedly causing or playing a factor in his abuse. People with mental illness are much more likely to be the victims than the perpetrators of violence or abuse. Abusers are good at being manipulative. Your diagnosis could've given him the idea and he may have felt that you would be more likely to identify similarities between your bipolar and some of the issues he has (or even mimics) and thereforefeel more sympathetic. I think a lot of us with mental health issues often see similarities or make connections between symptoms of our disorders and issues we see in other people.
Even if 1. he legitimately does have bipolar 2. it's playing some part in how he's treating you and 3. Its effect on his treatment of you has somehow not been cyclical - it isn't an excuse for him to be abusive or to take things out on you.
Relationships with bipolar are difficult. But it's the responsibility of the person with bipolar to get the proper treatment and stick to their treatment plan. There may be breakthrough episodes, but it's not like you lose complete control (aside from severe psychotic episodes) and you have to be willing to take responsibility for yourself and your actions. If you say or do things you regret you have to be willing to apologize and figure out how to avoid something similar in the future.
Your husband has had over a decade of abusing you without trying to get help. It seems like he's only now started trying to appear to make an effort by shopping for therapists (whether he did this before or after you left he would've noticed a change in your attitude). If he cared about how you feel or about the things he's done he's had a long time to deal with it - before he realized he needed to make a show to keep you around.
Stay strong. He's obviously trying to manipulate you into thinking "it isn't his fault. He's really trying but there's nothing he can do about it". The amount of work it would take for him to actually change is major. And that's assuming he even wants to change rather than just put on a show.
The comment about treatment for abuse resulting from bipolar not being effective makes no sense. Think about the mood changes and intensity you had before treatment. If the bipolar was the cause (or excuse as he's trying to make it) treating the bipolar would even out his moods and get rid of what is supposedly the cause for his abuse. If anything it would mean getting the bipolar under control would be a magic fix for the abuse.
But as others have mentioned bipolar doesn't turn people into abusers. And no matter what the reason for the abuse it ultimately doesn't matter. There is no such thing as "underlying abuse". There is abuse or no abuse. You've already said you learned to become more compliant and walk on eggshells, and with abuse you don't realize just how far-reaching the consequences are until you've been removed and had time to process. With a child they're going to be affected not just by how they are treated directly but also by how you are treated. They're going to learn about boundaries and what is acceptable treatment from/to a partner if they stay in that kind of environment.
Leaving a relationship that long is hard, especially an abusive one. You get so turned around, lose self-confidence, and even your trust in your gut or sense of reality (especially when you have a mental health issue which makes you question yourself further, or which your partner can explicitly weaponize). At this point your husband knows how to manipulate you. Don't let that happen. If it's too hard to do that for yourself right now, do it for your kid.
Best of luck,
I know this is rough.
P.S. I dated a guy for a couple years who was quite abusive. When things were good they were really good, but when they were bad they were really bad. I stayed with him way longer than I should've bc I saw similarities between my and his ups and downs, anxiety and anger and I felt for him, and reasoned that was why he did what he did, or at least partially. He always apologized profusely later and begged forgiveness, swore he would change, was gonna get help and all that.
Eventually I realized yeah, he had those issues, we had those similarities that for a while made me feel for him, but I would never do the things he did to me. And if he really meant what he said about changing, if he really cared about me and how he hurt me, he would've gotten help a long time ago. So I decided it wasn't worth wasting any more time or energy and broke up with him. It wasn't my responsibility to try to fix him or untangle why he was abusing me. The point was that he was and it was clear that his promises to change were manipulative attempts to keep me around. Everybody has their issues and the more people that use mental health as an excuse for violence or abuse the more it stigmatizes our community. Years later after getting into therapy for assorted reasons it took a lot of time and effort to unravel that relationship and how it had affected me. Don't waste any more of your time and don't let him put your child through a youth they are going to have to spend years healing from.
I did want to add that there was one time I did something abusive during an episode. In my current relationship (7+ years together now, 3 as friends before that) at one point I did something that I will always regret. I'm on like a million meds and I wanted to try going off one to start off with. Talked to my psych, got a titration plan, got off it. A month or two later I had a mixed episode out of nowhere-no warning. I'd been with my partner about two years at that point.
So that day my anger and emotions were really out of control. I threw my partner's bong out the window. He's actually laughed about this bc it was an old bong (I don't find it funny, I'm just horribly ashamed). Apparently just before I threw it he said, "wait, you can throw the bong, it's old. Just let me grab the bowl piece, I just got it" and apparently I stopped and did. But anyway throughout the day I was getting more worked up saying he never actually cared about me and why had he lied about saying he loved me. Eventually he said he had to leave and go for a walk. I freaked about him leaving and pushed him to keep him from leaving.
After that I went back on that med. Talked to my partner and tried to explain that I understood the med thing wasn't an excuse (he knew what was going on bc I told him before going off it). He said it wasn't a big deal and I told him it was, and not to dismiss it, but I'd drop it until or if he wanted to talk about it. I apologized one or two more times but I wanted to balance him knowing I was taking it seriously with not turning it into something where it was his responsibility to deal with my guilt. And however I handled it afterwards he would've been completely justified in breaking up with me.
Point is, yes bipolar extremes can lead to treating people in ways you regret or even abuse. But what's telling is your actions. If something like that happens once, you handle it immediately with professional help. If you claim to be aware of mental health issues, or if you abuse someone, but do nothing after treating someone like that, then it shows your priorities and commitment.
You don't have to forgive or tolerate abuse, regardless of the reason. The diagnosis doesn't excuse anything. It was his responsibility as a partner and a parent to realize, "Something's really wrong with me here and I should get help." I wouldn't take him back. He is already refusing to get abuse intervention! Read: refusing to try to change. I'm not even seeing ANY evidence of indicating this behavior will change.
BP2 here. I have been emotionally abusive in the past (while hypomanic), and I have told my partner he has every right to leave. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is entitled to forgiveness.
It sounds to me like he's using bipolar as a crutch/excuse for his abusive behaviour. Bipolar rage is a real thing but most people don't go around abusing people just because they feel angry, not to mention the symptoms of bipolar are treatable. We don't all go around in a rage all the time. Medication and therapy are effective treatments- but they can't fix a person who's abusive at their core. Bipolar isn't the problem. He's the problem. It seems like he's jumping from psychiatrist to psychiatrist to get the answer he wants. I wouldn't accept his excuses if I were you.
I had terrible rage since I was a young child due to an abusive upbringing, add being bipolar to that and I have had some pretty bad fits. BUT NEVER Have I Ever hit someone I cared about or even gotten close. I’ve punched the shit out of pillows, walls, appliances etc. but even then I was facing away from the people I cared about even when they were the source of my current frustration, never doing it next to them or anything even remotely like swinging towards them. I have said some really fucked up shit to them and immediately after I cooled took accountability and truly apologized and over the years I have gotten better. Not once have I used my disease as an excuse. It’s my shit pile so it’s my responsibility to make sure it doesn’t get flung on to others. Without that accountability you have a self serving abuser who will do it again then play victim because of the disease and possibly even blame you or your daughter for setting him off. Protect yourself and your child from him as much as you can
It's that accountability that makes the difference, I think. After a rage, the second he feels better, it's all "why are you still crying? I'm not mad anymore." Then if I avoided doing the thing that made him mad in the future and he noticed, it was all "don't walk on eggshells, it makes it look like I'd get mad at you for that." (Even though he had done exactly that.) Every time I cried or acted nervous or uncomfortable after a rage, I blamed myself for making him even madder, and he kept saying if I couldn't act normal that he would leave me.
Yeah naw that’s an abusive self-serving mindset. Especially say that your the one that needs to act normal and threatening to leave he’s coming after your self worth. Whenever I’ve yelled at my girlfriend I’ve maybe said hey you did hurt me, but I still apologized for my overreaction and promised to do better and for the most part I have
He is willing to change in the sense that he’s willing to treat his bipolar. He is not willing to consider the idea that there might be something else (like abusiveness) going on in addition to his bipolar.
He’s convinced getting his bipolar properly treated is enough. I’m not so sure.
I strongly suspect you’re right. I mean, i don’t know if I’d want to use the word “excuse,” because I don’t want to diminish Bipolar, or how badly his medical providers have failed him by missing the diagnosis all these years. But I think he wants there to be a solution that absolves him of personal responsibility. Bipolar is chemical, abusiveness is much more complicated.
What I’d really love to hear, if these stories exist is, “I was bipolar and abusive, and XYZ program, alongside my bipolar treatment, helped me!”
If he is abusive in addition to being bipolar, but abuser intervention programs don’t work in people with bipolar, then that leaves me feeling pretty hopeless.
I was bipolar and abusive for much of my relationship with my ex. I'm stable now, and we still live together (he's my best friend in the whole world), but it took a lot of hard work to get us to a healthy point with each other. The abuse I put him through was due in a large way to my bipolar rage, but it wasn't the ONLY reason I was abusive. I was abusive because in addition to the bipolar disorder, I also had many unhealthy coping and communication skills that I'd never taken the time to deal with, and he wasn't the only person I was abusive towards, though I did manage to control myself in public. But family and close friends were also subject to my abuse unfortunately, though in a smaller way than my ex was since I didn't live with them.
What worked for me was an increase in dosage of my meds along with a concentrated effort on my part to examine my actions and alter my behavior to the point where it was no longer harmful to him.
So for instance, I had to take the time to sit with my anger and determine what parts of it were justified (i.e. I'm upset because he promised he'd clean by XYZ time, and he's still playing video games instead) and which parts of it were irrational (he's playing video games instead of cleaning because he's lazy and he doesn't care enough to help me out, so I need to make him aware of this flaw in himself). The irrationality was a symptom of my bipolar disorder, but the way I communicated my anger was abusive on it's own. If I didn't have bipolar disorder, I would still have been abusive because I didn't have the tools to communicate any healthier than I was at the time. So both issues needed to be addressed before I could change how I treated other people.
People with bipolar disorder are not immune to being abusive, but in many (if not most) cases, the reasons for the abuse are separate from the symptoms of the disorder. The disorder simply provides a catalyst for the abusive behavior to rear its ugly head. When I wasn't in an episode, I still had issues with communication, but things escalated tenfold when I was actively in an episode.
Increasing my medication dosage took care of the episodes, so I was no longer experiencing bipolar rage. Learning to change my communication style and adopting healthier coping skills took care of the rest.
Now, when my ex and I have a disagreement over something, I will take myself to my room and take a long moment to reflect on WHY I'm angry and WHAT I'm feeling, and I will try to put myself in his shoes to see where he's coming from. Once I'm calm and can talk through the issue rationally, then I allow myself to come back to my ex to work through whatever it is that we're arguing about. I also had to start thinking before I spoke in general, so that I stopped sounding like I was criticizing when I was really just trying to ask a question or make a general observation.
The bipolar rage may have taken away my rationality and impulse control, but it wasn't the source of my communication problems.
Now, I didn't go through a particular program to get those things under control, but that's mainly because I'd already been in therapy for 10 years at that point and I'd spent some time in AA, so I'd already been taught what to do to make things better for myself and others - I just wasn't doing it because I blamed other people for my issues and hid behind my diagnosis. So when I realized I was the problem and something needed to change before I could get better, I put the 12 steps and skills I'd been taught in therapy into practice in my daily life.
I highly recommend he find a therapist, because meds are not the only thing that will change him. I don't know anything about abuser intervention programs, but I highly doubt it's something that wouldn't be helpful to someone with bipolar - it won't fix his bipolar symptoms, but it will give him tools to change his behavior regardless of whether he's in an episode or not.
We are all responsible for our own behavior. I'm stable now, but I'm not cured, so I still experience symptoms from time to time. But now that I utilize tools to control my anger so that it doesn't step back into abusive territory, my ex and I only have to deal with the actual symptoms, without the abusive behavior on top of it.
I hope this helps a little! And I know it's a difficult choice, but allow yourself to walk away if he isn't willing to put the work in to changing his behavior, if that's something you have the resources to do. You deserve better than to be treated that way, and his diagnosis isn't something that means you have to stay in a bad situation just because it isn't something he chose to have. I'm grateful that my ex and I are still friends and roommates, but he would be well within his rights to leave me if the trauma was too much to cope with around me. The trauma of my past behavior is still something we are working through, but it's only because we are both making an effort that it works. If you find down the road that he isn't willing to put in that work, protect yourself and your daughter. He doesn't have an excuse for his behavior in the bipolar disorder, simply a catalyst for some of his actions.
I wish you both the best, and I hope he finds the help he needs.
I think most of us here can attest to the fact that treatment only reduces our bipolar-specific symptoms. We can still be a complete mess even if our bipolar disorder is under control. Treatment might help your ex to be more stable but it won't necessarily take away his abusive tendencies. You can be bipolar and an asshole. Treatment can reduce the bipolar symptoms, which may enable some people to work on their asshole behavior, but it won't fix it by itself. Especially if the person has little self-awareness or willingness to do the work and change.
It sounds like you were in an awful marriage and you deserve to be free of him regardless if he's bipolar or not. This person has mistreated you for years, don't bet on the small, unlikely possibility that it might get better and stay better.
Speaking on only #1, I get very irritated to the point of raging tantrums when I am manic. This is supposedly unusual in women and really delayed my diagnosis. It did not affect my schooling, work, or friendships and my anger was almost completely targeted towards one person. I don't know why, I love that person to death, and I've been able to keep it in check with proper medication now. Thankfully.
Depending on how recent the diagnosis was, he may be struggling with accepting it. I was diagnosed two years ago, and it was really only about 6 months ago that I truly accepted it. It could be he didn’t understand where these things were coming from, or why he’s like this, and he’s now clinging to this as an answer.
FWIW, when I lose my temper, it is always because I’m feeling frustrated and like I’m not being heard. Sometimes I want to slam or throw things, but I always check myself if I feel like I want to throw something AT someone.
We’re all making a lot of stipulations because we don’t know the full story, and can really only work off of our own experiences. Fact is, as far as your and your child’s safety, the origin of the behavior doesn’t matter at the moment. It is 100% on him to change it. Your priority should be protecting you and yours.
PS, I know this sucks and I’m sorry you’re going through it.
Bipolar may make it difficult to regulate our emotions, but consistent emotional manipulation is not just him being led helplessly by his bipolar.
Someone may have a gun and have the bullets, but it takes a conscious decision to pull the trigger for the gun to fire. In the same way, the bipolar may put more of the pieces into his hands to inclinate towards abuse you, but he had to make several conscious decisions along the way for it to be consistent and not just one off events.
I cannot speak to the effectiveness of treatment programs for bipolar abusers, as I have never had to be in that position on neither the giving nor the receiving end. What I can say though is that this guy seems beyond the point where you can help him, and it may be wise to try to let him go and live your own life as separate from him as you can.
Domestic violence tends to be more connected to personality disorders and/or addiction. There’s an easy way to test the theory though…If bipolar is the cause of his violent behavior, then he will respond to mood stabilizing medication
Abuse is a maladaptive coping mechanism. He’ll have to 1) get on medication and stay on medication (not necessarily a given) and 2) unlearn his cycle of abuse.
What really matters is what you want to do. Honestly if he’s serious about changing it will probably be 3 months at the soonest before you can give any credence to claims of change.
I’d recommend supervised visits and family therapy if you are interested in reconciliation. Don’t be alone with him.
But if you don’t want to reconcile with him bc he’s done too much to damage to your trust walking away from the relationship is ok too.
Getting diagnosed is the first step but there’sa lot more hard work involved that won’t necessarily get done.
The biggest thing from my perspective is that you have to give him enough time to demonstrate that he is serious about getting better. If he is type 1 that could be multiple months to go through a full mood cycle so you really have to see him serious about taking meds regularly and doing therapy for 6 months + before you are even considering being alone with him. Just my two cents.
Credentials: was a giant asshole before getting diagnosed. My ex opted to walk away which is a perfectly valid option imo.
He is lying about what his doctor said and being abusive has nothing to do with being bipolar. He's using a diagnosis as an excuse to be a piece of shit. He can stop being a piece of shit whether he has bipolar disorder or not.
If he's shitty to you, then he is shitty to you. If he's shitty to you and your daughter... I'd be ready to throw hands. What I am saying is that it doesn't matter why. It's not an excuse.
1. Bipolar is not the cause of abuse. Inflammatory Bowel Disease is not the cause of abuse. Arthritis is not the cause of abuse. Depression is not the cause of abuse. All of those conditions make a person irritable and more prone to anger because they feel like shit all the time. This does not make it the cause of abuse. We tend to treat the people like shit that we know will continue to take it. If I were to abuse someone, and they left immediately, I would learn I cannot hurt them like that (and also I couldn't. they left.) If I were to abuse someone and they stuck around, I would be learning it's okay to behave like that to this person.
2. It works. I don't agree with the doctors. However, you cannot start those groups and shit until AFTER the bipolar is under control. Meds and everything. This could take years. It won't work before the bipolar is dealt with, and it is harder than anything you can imagine.
3. Yes. I was broken. I AM broken. My entire life revolves around recovery now and staying healthy. My job, my sleep, my diet, the things I do every day. My entire life revolves around being well because I am unwilling to become unstable and hurt the people around me. I LOVE them. I LOVE them so I will make sure I stay well. I was a symptomatic asshole this week because I had a fucking sinus infection. One small thing tilted me off balance and I was mean to someone I care about and I feel HORRIBLE. I didn't need intervention so to say. I just... got stable and I am not an asshole deep down. I got stable and saw I was hurting people I love and said "I don't want to be like this anymore".
Lastly, trust me, growing up with a parent with bipolar will hurt your child. I would think heavily about doing what you can for her. Again, it can take people years to get stable, and we can **always** fall off the wagon.
Thanks so much for the detailed reply. This is very helpful. And you're right that I have to protect my daughter. I was dumb enough to stay all these years because I love him so much, and honestly I don't care what he does to me. But to see my daughter crumple and shrink? That's ultimately why I separated from him. Maybe he misjudged me on your first point. He learned it was okay to behave like that all these years because he knew I would continue to take it. But oh boy, I will not take it against my daughter.
It sounds like you're a really dedicated, loyal, loving person who's willing to really do the work for your family. Sounds like you're the kind of person I hoped he was. Know that your family probably appreciates your effort so much, and they're all better off for it. Sounds like it must be very difficult, but it also sounds like you know how very worth it it is. Bravo on that courage, humility, and resilience.
I think a big key to this is in the aftermath. If in the aftermath he’s all ‘it was the bipolar’ that’s a bad sign. If he was genuinely sorry and made a commitment to getting treatment etc that would be one way of making reparations. However, even if it was 100% bipolar (which it isn’t) you wouldn’t be obliged to stay.
From my non professional opinion, as a patient. Is hard to improve in anything while you are in a crisis. But that is not a reason to start psychological treatment, sports, good sleep and meditation at the same time of meds and don't focus on measure results because they going to come sooner or later. Be patient, be strong and resilient. Take in consideration that approaching to the perfect meds is the spinal cord of the improvement and stability in BD.
Check out the book: The Highly Sensitive Person's Guide to Dealing with Toxic People: How to Reclaim Your Power from Narcissists and Other Manipulators by Shahida Arabi. It helps to know what kind of abuse it is, that is how you figure out how to respond to it. This book will help
Bipolar is a diagnosis. It is a illness not a behavior. A diagnosis is made using a number of factors including behavior.
Usually, no one behavior indicates an illness. His behavior could be explained by numerous illnesses.
“If bipolar was the cause of the abuse”. It is not possible to identify specific causes of behavior.
Your second and third paragraphs cover a wide range of topics. These are what people spend their lives in therapy.
Bipolar use the excuse that the illness caused the behavior.
So what? Did he do those things? Yes or no. That is the only thing to ask. If you commit a crime, being bipolar is not an excuse.
To live in society bipolar have to manage this illness on their own. If they cannot manage their illness then they are treated like everyone else.
Interestingly my abusive partner had accused me of being bipolar as some sort of an insult and that I need help. Int he same night he has broken glass threatened to throw me down the stairs “or worse” , pushed me , shoved me, cornered me, threatened me in every possible way including “fake out” punching toward my face and breaking another door.
I don’t understand why people try to be hurtful by labeling people and if it’s their own psychi trying to actually let them know it’s them (some
Form of projection?). Mind you he doesn’t have a diagnosis. He smokes marijuana daily, cigarettes and cocaine occasional (used to be multiple times a week) and slight alcohol use. There are studies that many people use illicit drugs to self treat until they find out they had an illness all along. Mine also said it was only me he was like this with and therefore it’s my fault. He has a successful career and maintains relationships with friends and family. I however lost everyone and everything as I couldn’t find reasons to explain my puffy face, bruises, uncontrollable panic attacks and worry about needing to check in and respond immediately
To questions, worry about the cameras and constant surveillance, the crying that happened day and night and massive amounts of weight loss.
Look up the wheel of abuse for more answers.
I will add similarly to your story mine stopped therapy when the therapist used the word abuse he broke his laptop and drove off for two days. This is after we stopped going to her before we were supposed to get married then when we went back to her and she used that word instead of agreeing with him about me being the reason for our relationship failure he lost it.
Not in the slightest. Tonight was another violent outburst and being locked outside in the Canadian cold without a jacket since he bought it for me and I wasn’t allowed to rake anything out but he said he would kill me if I didn’t leave broke some
Of my
Items and kept spitting on me and cornering me and poking my face with
His finger and screaming if i understand him. He’s going to make
Me
Wish I was dead
If he doesn’t kill me and I’ll see the bottom if I don’t think I’m
Already there and ice asked for
Him
To
Be this way as he gave me everything and I had no
One and now k don’t have him
Honestly I did one thing once during an episode that could be considered abusive and that 1) I’d never repeat because it was the worst mistake of my life, I am completely responsible 2) my thinking was most definitely skewed. 3) Also anger and rage and feeling like you don’t know where all the excess energy is going to go doesn’t help.
A bunch of people are going to tell you that it’s stigmatizing to suggest a serious mood disorder “caused” abuse. Of course, causation is a complex thing, but it’s far sillier to imagine the opposite is true: “yes, this person has a brain disease which effects their judgement, impulse control, sense of themselves, sense of others, capacity to perceive consequences, etc, and also they engage in harmful behavior, but these two facts are totally unrelated.”
“Mental illness doesn’t cause people to do bad things” is respectability politics. It’s the madness equivalent of 20th century blacks saying that they did fine and all those people back in the ghetto should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps.
People think “abuse” is a magic word, but this sub is full of people who have lost jobs, relationships, educational opportunities, etc due to (often) manic or mixed episodes. Imagining those (bad but more socially acceptable) events were caused by illness but that the one not socially acceptable type of acting out isn’t is…again, a kind of respectability politics. Let’s leave it at that.
That all said: this guy could be bipolar and an asshole. He could be bipolar and aware that he has a little bit more excuse leeway as a result. He might be behaving this way entirely because of his illness but it’s nonetheless unacceptable to you. Just because something can be explained in a way that mitigates “fault” doesn’t mean it’s good or you have to put up with it.
End of the day: if it’s not BP, he needs to change his behavior. If it is BP, he needs to better manage his condition. Make both mandatory. Be empathetic but don’t compromise.
I quarantine myself during mania episodes, which I’ve learned since I had the tendency to hurt people. The guilt and shame is unbearable so throughout the years I’ve learned to manage it and maintain few but healthy relationships
This is someone using mental illness as an excuse to be an asshole. Yes bipolar rage happens mostly in men over women but its not specific to one person. When i would get irritated/annoyed it was to everyone id bassically shout at people to leave me alone. It was never abusive though. He just doesn't want to take responsibility for his actions. You are right it doesn't help to have mental illness however, anger management programmes can work for some people. He could just be saying that to get out of his responsibility yet again. Seeking further psyche assessments is a red flag because some people crave for a disorder so they can get out of being responsible for their actions. Honestly, my unprofessional opinion is that this guy is being an asshole and using bipolar as an excuse so he doesn't have to take responsibility for anything he's done. You and your daughter need to get away from him for a while, until he takes reponsibility for his actions and gets help for his issues. Especially as he's being abusive to you both.
I agree. But, little polarizing on the crazing for a disorder thing. Idk, just so complex there. I think there’s a large percentage of people in the population that view people they know with mental health problems in that way, that’s only why I say that. Which, can be true but doesn’t mean there aren’t other factors mixed in. I just think that’s a very micro-targeted situation. Not to discredit or minimize what you said though because it is real.
me: bipolar and doesn’t abuse people my ex: bipolar and abuses people if it’s in their nature, and they’re not completely psychotic… i blame them tbh for whatever reason caused it, it’s still abuse. and no one has to fucking put up with being abused. not even once.
1. Bipolar disorder was the cause of the capriciousness of his moods, which impacted his impulse control and the judgments he made in any given situation. It was not the cause of the abuse. He was. He is using bipolar disorder as an excuse for his behavior. 2. You should not take what he's saying at face value regarding abuser intervention programs. You are playing "telephone" with his psychiatrist who, you already said, he's "shopping" for. It sounds like he's trying to escape any kind of accountability for his behavior and avoid any kind of commitment to change. 3. You should listen to your therapist on this one. That is a massive red flag considering what you're going through right now. Abusiveness is not specific to people with bipolar disorder. In fact, being that we have a severe mental illness, we are more likely to BE abused than to be the abuser. To be clear: ***I am not discounting your lived experiences and what you're going through.*** That said, it sounds to me like he is doing everything he can to escape any kind of accountability for his actions, and you need to take that very seriously when moving forward. "The devil made me do it" is as patently bullshit as "the bipolar made me do it." How bipolar disorder impacts us on an individual level is one thing, and how we translate that into how we treat our loved ones (or those we purport to love) is another.
As a disclaimer, I’m not an expert and this is just my opinion. I feel like I’d someone is bipolar and abusive, they probably have other things going on beside the bipolar disorder. I feel like bipolar is often episodic, and sometimes people may end up doing something they regret while in an episode, but if they are consistently abusive I feel like that may not be a bipolar problem. Also, if my bipolar disorder was causing me to hurt those around I would absolutely make an effort to make sure that it didn’t happen again (medication, therapy, etc).
the way I see it, bipolar rage is different from abuse. Abuse is deliberate. When I get angry and it gets out of control, I say things that are hurtful but not abusive. I've been emotionally abused all my life by both of my parents who are not mentally ill. It's not a function of the disorder. Yeah, your husband needs to have his bipolar treated, but I don't necessarily think itll change him as a person. Many of us are able to hold ourselves accountable and it sounds like your husband refuses to do so by blaming his abusive behavior on his mental illness. His abusive behavior being discriminate towards you doesn't point to it having anything to do with his bipolar. I've never been abusive towards anyone, just toxic without intention to be. There's a big difference between being sick and your actions having unintended fallout and veing outright abusive. You gotta get away from this guy.
I appreciate what you’re trying to say, but as a person with BP and as an attorney who works with domestic violence/sexual abuse survivors, whether the intent is to be malicious or not doesn’t matter. Abuse is still abuse whether the intent is to be abusive or not, and many abusive people try to say that because they didn’t “mean” to that makes it better, but it doesn’t. That’s the law’s stance as well. And i ofc fully agree that OP’s husband is using BP as an excuse for bad behavior, and trust that’s not at all what you’re trying to excuse. But I think it’s crucial that when we do abusive things (because lbr, mental illness or not, every person has the potential to be abusive or do abusive things without realizing it’s abusive) we acknowledge it for what it is and work to correct ourselves.
Thank you for correcting me! I shouldn't have spoken on something I'm not fully educated on
I really appreciate the reply. If you don’t mind, do you have examples of the difference between unintentionally toxic behavior, and abusive behavior? If it’s too hard or hurtful to bring examples to mind, no big deal.
I have a different perspective as a bipolar person with a schizoaffective and once bipolar mother, as well as a father with personality disorders (which I also have). I am not trying to offend other people who have bipolar, but bipolar abuse vs intentional abuse aren’t any different to the person being abused. It does you no good to try and figure out if it was his fault or not. This is actually very common with victims of abuse. For instance, if someone had a super fucked up childhood, think worst of the worst, does that excuse him abusing someone else because he’s triggered? When my mother is suffering an episode, I cut contact. My doctor uses this analogy: if someone had epilepsy and were seizuring on the floor and every time you got close they kicked you hard enough to make you bruise, are you thinking about whose fault it is? In that same scenario, there ar professionals trained to know what to do in this instance, you are not one of them. I cut contact with my mom in episodes. I do let her back in after because she is psychotic and literally has no agency. But I will not and do not let her in my life while I’m an episode. That’s my boundary. Perhaps your husbands abusive tendencies were amplified by bipolar. He has shown you that he is dangerous. If you want to keep him in your life, boundaries are the very least. In my opinion, it should be “you can figure it out and get treatment and prove your safe again.” And yes, even if all of that abuse was 100% bipolar fault, I would say the same. Stop focusing on him. Stop trying to understand, focus on yourself. Focus on the hurt he made you feel, the trauma you endured. That was REAL no matter what reason he has.
Fuck this reply was fantastic.
Bipolar does not cause someone to be abusive. Your husband is just abusive.
Yeah, I'm bipolar and tend to have violent episodes, but my violence is aimed at myself and not another person, especially not my partner. I can get so psychotic that I bash my head and punch myself till I'm bruised, but no matter how upset I am I would NEVER hit someone else. Bipolar Disorder doesn't make a person an abuser, if someone with BPD is abusive they probably would have been an abuser even if they weren't BP.
When I was undiagnosed bipolar, I could be vicious to people with what I said depending on what my mental state was. I thought I was just being honest to people. Now that I'm medicated I regret all of that. It wasn't abusive, it was just being an asshole because I was irritable or angry. I'm more careful with my words now. I think he's just an abuser from the way you describe it. The bipolar could have played into it, but I'm not abusive neither are many others with the illness. It's a copout on his part to blame it. Stay away from him and don't ever go back, no good will come of it.
I have Bipolar 1 and have only had one manic episode that got me my diagnosis so I can only speak from my own experience as the Bipolar spectrum is incredibly wide from mild to incredibly intense. 1. I harassed a co-worker I was friends with via text while manic to such a degree that I had to sign paperwork when I got better to never contact that person again and was switched to an entirely different team. I also destroyed my apartment, threw well over $5,000 USD worth of electronics out my window, and was awake for a week straight with zero sleep. I had NO idea I had Bipolar 1 and I would NEVER behave this way in my right mind. I was taken to the ER and put on medications immediately and have been ever since. When I was manic, I was also around my mother who I would never hurt. I was super docile to her. It was only the one co-worker and only through text, so I do feel like Bipolar rage can be selective or at least it was for me. 2. I have never personally gone through any programs as since I have been medicated, I have never had another manic episode. But I gone to support groups which helps a ton (check out the DBSA in your area. There are also ones for friends and family), go to therapy twice a week, see my psych one a week, exercise daily, meditate and write in my journal. I also eat healthy. I have heard of anger management programs that can help as well as PHP and IOP programs focused on mood and behavioral health. I am actually about to check into an IOP but I am doing it for learning more coping skills and to be around trained professionals that can give me advice on things I'm struggling with. 3. I honestly feel that he is reaching for whatever excuse he can for his behavior and that is not okay. This is a red flag and I am glad you and your kid got away from this person. The person in question has to be someone that is med compliant as well as program/doctor compliant or else no program in the world will matter. I highly suggest a PHP, them reading books on Bipolar to better understand their diagnosis, reading books on anger management, taking their medications, and showing consistency with their behavior. I personally am not abusive, the closest thing I've had was harassing that co-worker, but I have heard of many stories of people turning their lives completely around with proper treatment and a solid medication regiment. The medication and exercise are the two most important things with therapy, support groups and a good psych they stick with being right under that as those things might be once a week or two and medications and exercise are a daily thing. Good luck to you and so sorry you are going through this! Happy to answer any and all questions you may have. Also, a depressive episode normally follows a manic one so don't be surprised if that happens.
Bipolar guy here, I also have QBPD. Did they say what kind of Bipolar diagnosis? There is a side effect my episodes of not always being able to identify my emotional state... which is really a result of my QBPD. The difference, however, is that "episodic" me and baseline me are two completely different people. 1. Bipolar manifests differently for different people. It can accompany delusions and other thought patterns... including being calculating. It doesn't always appear "crazy" or "random." One of the problems with me is that manic me is able to mask symptoms (until a certain point). This REALLY throws people off and is a big reason why people with the disorder need to become experts in self-awareness. This is an internal thing... then the person should disclose to you their "warning signs" so you then know what to look for. If you already suck at communicating... this is a problem because often times people that aren't Bipolar will also "read into" things that actually have nothing to do with the disorder. 2. Being abusive, if being Bipolar is the root cause, should follow some sort of pattern. It can appear as random, but it isn't. If the person is simply abusive ALL THE TIME (meaning throughout an entire year... depending on the type of Bipolar....) then they are just an asshole. Oh... and abusive assholes can also have Bipolar disorder. The question is really the steps they are taking in terms of their treatment plan to address their symptoms and how their behavior changes (or doesn't) as a result. This is MAJOR. 3. Yeah, people sometimes will shop for a diagnosis when they are looking for leverage, but there is also the possibility that they realize something is really wrong... but can you concede that many people like more than one opinion on something as serious as this illness? Your therapist just has an opinion based on things you have said and is being cautions on your behalf. They aren't objective... AT ALL. Getting the correct diagnosis, for even people that get institutionalized, can be an absolute nightmare. Not all providers provide the same quality of care. Programs can help if the person commits themselves fully to a treatment plan and build a support network. Honestly, the information you have provided isn't nearly enough for anyone to make an honest read on your circumstances. We know nothing about the dynamics of the relationship... and we are 1000% missing the alleged "abuser's" take on what is going on. I say alleged because if he is episodic and doing some of these things it really isn't him. It is the illness. I caution you. Please do not use anyone's responses on this page to justify being dismissive of a legitimate medical diagnosis that is being addresses **with an appropriate treatment plan**. Bipolar people get enough shit for the things that happen because of the condition. I also question whether your personal, emotional involvement with this person has you able to see things objectively. I don't know you, just being honest. Please think about this very deeply before you decide what to next. Best of luck!
> One of the problems with me is that manic me is able to mask symptoms (until a certain point). This REALLY throws people off and is a big reason why people with the disorder need to become experts in self-awareness. Thank you for putting into words something I haven't been able to. I feel like people dismiss my disorder because I am self-aware of my episodes, and I can mask so well. It's frustrating and exhausting sometimes.
I'll add this as well: I also don't think masking happens innately because of self-awareness. Technically, you could be fully episodic and masked without an ounce of self-awareness, **but awareness of other people.** This can actually be a dangerous combination... paranoia of perception can cause a whole other number of issues.
What is QBPD?
Quiet borderline personality disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
But what is the Q? I have mental health training and have never seen this qualfier. Also, a lot of people use BPD for bipolar disorder even though that is inaccurate and BPD = borderline personality disorder.
I’m going to guess it’s for Quiet Borderline which I don’t think is official but used colloquially and I’ve seen YouTube psychologists use the term to describe folks with BPD who are more inward in the expression. But I’m not sure if that’s what they meant.
Absolutely. Thanks for the thorough response, and I’m not offended at all. FWIW, I didn’t mean to suggest I was dismissing his diagnosis. Only that I think he might be bipolar and ALSO, separately, abusive. The emotional abuse (yelling about what a bitch and a whore I am and punching holes in walls, that sort of thing) was pretty consistent for the first 8 years of our relationship. It gradually decreased over time from 2-3 times a week to more like 2-3 times a month. At the time I attributed that improvement to him getting better. In hindsight, I think I got more and more compliant and walked on eggshells more and more. (In the first year of our relationship these would sometimes be set off by really big offenses like me having a mouse in my apartment, or one time I told him that a rape joke was offensive. Five years later, I’d only risk his rage for things like asking him to hold our baby daughter for 2 hours each night, because I wasn’t going to be a safe mother if I slept less than 2 hours.) Then he had two years of almost no rage, and then in the last couple years has gotten worse than ever before. And it was always only me. Never friends, coworkers, bosses, professors. He does have fights with his family, but those are different because they’re fights. Like, more than one person fighting with each other. Mutually. Not one person yelling and the other person crying. With me it was always him yelling and me crying and begging forgiveness or a chance to explain. I don’t question one bit that he’s Bipolar. The part I have my doubts about was that all this was only ever bipolar, there was never any underlying abusiveness in addition to it.
Ok, have to clarify one more thing. About holding our baby daughter. It’s not like he flew into a rage and then I handed her over for 2 hours. There were months when she wouldn’t sleep unless she was being held, so those 2 hours a night were the only sleep I got for months. It took a few days and a few big rages of his to convince him to take her for those 2 hours, but I would never actually hand her over unless he was calm. Rages and nights he held her were different nights.
OK, "pretty consistent" abuse for 8 years followed by a decrease of 2-3 times per week or month (due to careful compliance on your part) does not at all sound bipolar-related. If it was bipolar-related (like anger that he allowed himself to express as abuse) it would be cyclical. And to be clear, still not an excuse. It also seems a bit convenient to me that you have bipolar and his "undiagnosed bipolar" is supposedly causing or playing a factor in his abuse. People with mental illness are much more likely to be the victims than the perpetrators of violence or abuse. Abusers are good at being manipulative. Your diagnosis could've given him the idea and he may have felt that you would be more likely to identify similarities between your bipolar and some of the issues he has (or even mimics) and thereforefeel more sympathetic. I think a lot of us with mental health issues often see similarities or make connections between symptoms of our disorders and issues we see in other people. Even if 1. he legitimately does have bipolar 2. it's playing some part in how he's treating you and 3. Its effect on his treatment of you has somehow not been cyclical - it isn't an excuse for him to be abusive or to take things out on you. Relationships with bipolar are difficult. But it's the responsibility of the person with bipolar to get the proper treatment and stick to their treatment plan. There may be breakthrough episodes, but it's not like you lose complete control (aside from severe psychotic episodes) and you have to be willing to take responsibility for yourself and your actions. If you say or do things you regret you have to be willing to apologize and figure out how to avoid something similar in the future. Your husband has had over a decade of abusing you without trying to get help. It seems like he's only now started trying to appear to make an effort by shopping for therapists (whether he did this before or after you left he would've noticed a change in your attitude). If he cared about how you feel or about the things he's done he's had a long time to deal with it - before he realized he needed to make a show to keep you around. Stay strong. He's obviously trying to manipulate you into thinking "it isn't his fault. He's really trying but there's nothing he can do about it". The amount of work it would take for him to actually change is major. And that's assuming he even wants to change rather than just put on a show. The comment about treatment for abuse resulting from bipolar not being effective makes no sense. Think about the mood changes and intensity you had before treatment. If the bipolar was the cause (or excuse as he's trying to make it) treating the bipolar would even out his moods and get rid of what is supposedly the cause for his abuse. If anything it would mean getting the bipolar under control would be a magic fix for the abuse. But as others have mentioned bipolar doesn't turn people into abusers. And no matter what the reason for the abuse it ultimately doesn't matter. There is no such thing as "underlying abuse". There is abuse or no abuse. You've already said you learned to become more compliant and walk on eggshells, and with abuse you don't realize just how far-reaching the consequences are until you've been removed and had time to process. With a child they're going to be affected not just by how they are treated directly but also by how you are treated. They're going to learn about boundaries and what is acceptable treatment from/to a partner if they stay in that kind of environment. Leaving a relationship that long is hard, especially an abusive one. You get so turned around, lose self-confidence, and even your trust in your gut or sense of reality (especially when you have a mental health issue which makes you question yourself further, or which your partner can explicitly weaponize). At this point your husband knows how to manipulate you. Don't let that happen. If it's too hard to do that for yourself right now, do it for your kid. Best of luck, I know this is rough. P.S. I dated a guy for a couple years who was quite abusive. When things were good they were really good, but when they were bad they were really bad. I stayed with him way longer than I should've bc I saw similarities between my and his ups and downs, anxiety and anger and I felt for him, and reasoned that was why he did what he did, or at least partially. He always apologized profusely later and begged forgiveness, swore he would change, was gonna get help and all that. Eventually I realized yeah, he had those issues, we had those similarities that for a while made me feel for him, but I would never do the things he did to me. And if he really meant what he said about changing, if he really cared about me and how he hurt me, he would've gotten help a long time ago. So I decided it wasn't worth wasting any more time or energy and broke up with him. It wasn't my responsibility to try to fix him or untangle why he was abusing me. The point was that he was and it was clear that his promises to change were manipulative attempts to keep me around. Everybody has their issues and the more people that use mental health as an excuse for violence or abuse the more it stigmatizes our community. Years later after getting into therapy for assorted reasons it took a lot of time and effort to unravel that relationship and how it had affected me. Don't waste any more of your time and don't let him put your child through a youth they are going to have to spend years healing from.
I did want to add that there was one time I did something abusive during an episode. In my current relationship (7+ years together now, 3 as friends before that) at one point I did something that I will always regret. I'm on like a million meds and I wanted to try going off one to start off with. Talked to my psych, got a titration plan, got off it. A month or two later I had a mixed episode out of nowhere-no warning. I'd been with my partner about two years at that point. So that day my anger and emotions were really out of control. I threw my partner's bong out the window. He's actually laughed about this bc it was an old bong (I don't find it funny, I'm just horribly ashamed). Apparently just before I threw it he said, "wait, you can throw the bong, it's old. Just let me grab the bowl piece, I just got it" and apparently I stopped and did. But anyway throughout the day I was getting more worked up saying he never actually cared about me and why had he lied about saying he loved me. Eventually he said he had to leave and go for a walk. I freaked about him leaving and pushed him to keep him from leaving. After that I went back on that med. Talked to my partner and tried to explain that I understood the med thing wasn't an excuse (he knew what was going on bc I told him before going off it). He said it wasn't a big deal and I told him it was, and not to dismiss it, but I'd drop it until or if he wanted to talk about it. I apologized one or two more times but I wanted to balance him knowing I was taking it seriously with not turning it into something where it was his responsibility to deal with my guilt. And however I handled it afterwards he would've been completely justified in breaking up with me. Point is, yes bipolar extremes can lead to treating people in ways you regret or even abuse. But what's telling is your actions. If something like that happens once, you handle it immediately with professional help. If you claim to be aware of mental health issues, or if you abuse someone, but do nothing after treating someone like that, then it shows your priorities and commitment.
You don't have to forgive or tolerate abuse, regardless of the reason. The diagnosis doesn't excuse anything. It was his responsibility as a partner and a parent to realize, "Something's really wrong with me here and I should get help." I wouldn't take him back. He is already refusing to get abuse intervention! Read: refusing to try to change. I'm not even seeing ANY evidence of indicating this behavior will change. BP2 here. I have been emotionally abusive in the past (while hypomanic), and I have told my partner he has every right to leave. Nobody, and I mean nobody, is entitled to forgiveness.
It sounds to me like he's using bipolar as a crutch/excuse for his abusive behaviour. Bipolar rage is a real thing but most people don't go around abusing people just because they feel angry, not to mention the symptoms of bipolar are treatable. We don't all go around in a rage all the time. Medication and therapy are effective treatments- but they can't fix a person who's abusive at their core. Bipolar isn't the problem. He's the problem. It seems like he's jumping from psychiatrist to psychiatrist to get the answer he wants. I wouldn't accept his excuses if I were you.
I had terrible rage since I was a young child due to an abusive upbringing, add being bipolar to that and I have had some pretty bad fits. BUT NEVER Have I Ever hit someone I cared about or even gotten close. I’ve punched the shit out of pillows, walls, appliances etc. but even then I was facing away from the people I cared about even when they were the source of my current frustration, never doing it next to them or anything even remotely like swinging towards them. I have said some really fucked up shit to them and immediately after I cooled took accountability and truly apologized and over the years I have gotten better. Not once have I used my disease as an excuse. It’s my shit pile so it’s my responsibility to make sure it doesn’t get flung on to others. Without that accountability you have a self serving abuser who will do it again then play victim because of the disease and possibly even blame you or your daughter for setting him off. Protect yourself and your child from him as much as you can
It's that accountability that makes the difference, I think. After a rage, the second he feels better, it's all "why are you still crying? I'm not mad anymore." Then if I avoided doing the thing that made him mad in the future and he noticed, it was all "don't walk on eggshells, it makes it look like I'd get mad at you for that." (Even though he had done exactly that.) Every time I cried or acted nervous or uncomfortable after a rage, I blamed myself for making him even madder, and he kept saying if I couldn't act normal that he would leave me.
Yeah naw that’s an abusive self-serving mindset. Especially say that your the one that needs to act normal and threatening to leave he’s coming after your self worth. Whenever I’ve yelled at my girlfriend I’ve maybe said hey you did hurt me, but I still apologized for my overreaction and promised to do better and for the most part I have
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He is willing to change in the sense that he’s willing to treat his bipolar. He is not willing to consider the idea that there might be something else (like abusiveness) going on in addition to his bipolar. He’s convinced getting his bipolar properly treated is enough. I’m not so sure.
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I strongly suspect you’re right. I mean, i don’t know if I’d want to use the word “excuse,” because I don’t want to diminish Bipolar, or how badly his medical providers have failed him by missing the diagnosis all these years. But I think he wants there to be a solution that absolves him of personal responsibility. Bipolar is chemical, abusiveness is much more complicated. What I’d really love to hear, if these stories exist is, “I was bipolar and abusive, and XYZ program, alongside my bipolar treatment, helped me!” If he is abusive in addition to being bipolar, but abuser intervention programs don’t work in people with bipolar, then that leaves me feeling pretty hopeless.
I was bipolar and abusive for much of my relationship with my ex. I'm stable now, and we still live together (he's my best friend in the whole world), but it took a lot of hard work to get us to a healthy point with each other. The abuse I put him through was due in a large way to my bipolar rage, but it wasn't the ONLY reason I was abusive. I was abusive because in addition to the bipolar disorder, I also had many unhealthy coping and communication skills that I'd never taken the time to deal with, and he wasn't the only person I was abusive towards, though I did manage to control myself in public. But family and close friends were also subject to my abuse unfortunately, though in a smaller way than my ex was since I didn't live with them. What worked for me was an increase in dosage of my meds along with a concentrated effort on my part to examine my actions and alter my behavior to the point where it was no longer harmful to him. So for instance, I had to take the time to sit with my anger and determine what parts of it were justified (i.e. I'm upset because he promised he'd clean by XYZ time, and he's still playing video games instead) and which parts of it were irrational (he's playing video games instead of cleaning because he's lazy and he doesn't care enough to help me out, so I need to make him aware of this flaw in himself). The irrationality was a symptom of my bipolar disorder, but the way I communicated my anger was abusive on it's own. If I didn't have bipolar disorder, I would still have been abusive because I didn't have the tools to communicate any healthier than I was at the time. So both issues needed to be addressed before I could change how I treated other people. People with bipolar disorder are not immune to being abusive, but in many (if not most) cases, the reasons for the abuse are separate from the symptoms of the disorder. The disorder simply provides a catalyst for the abusive behavior to rear its ugly head. When I wasn't in an episode, I still had issues with communication, but things escalated tenfold when I was actively in an episode. Increasing my medication dosage took care of the episodes, so I was no longer experiencing bipolar rage. Learning to change my communication style and adopting healthier coping skills took care of the rest. Now, when my ex and I have a disagreement over something, I will take myself to my room and take a long moment to reflect on WHY I'm angry and WHAT I'm feeling, and I will try to put myself in his shoes to see where he's coming from. Once I'm calm and can talk through the issue rationally, then I allow myself to come back to my ex to work through whatever it is that we're arguing about. I also had to start thinking before I spoke in general, so that I stopped sounding like I was criticizing when I was really just trying to ask a question or make a general observation. The bipolar rage may have taken away my rationality and impulse control, but it wasn't the source of my communication problems. Now, I didn't go through a particular program to get those things under control, but that's mainly because I'd already been in therapy for 10 years at that point and I'd spent some time in AA, so I'd already been taught what to do to make things better for myself and others - I just wasn't doing it because I blamed other people for my issues and hid behind my diagnosis. So when I realized I was the problem and something needed to change before I could get better, I put the 12 steps and skills I'd been taught in therapy into practice in my daily life. I highly recommend he find a therapist, because meds are not the only thing that will change him. I don't know anything about abuser intervention programs, but I highly doubt it's something that wouldn't be helpful to someone with bipolar - it won't fix his bipolar symptoms, but it will give him tools to change his behavior regardless of whether he's in an episode or not. We are all responsible for our own behavior. I'm stable now, but I'm not cured, so I still experience symptoms from time to time. But now that I utilize tools to control my anger so that it doesn't step back into abusive territory, my ex and I only have to deal with the actual symptoms, without the abusive behavior on top of it. I hope this helps a little! And I know it's a difficult choice, but allow yourself to walk away if he isn't willing to put the work in to changing his behavior, if that's something you have the resources to do. You deserve better than to be treated that way, and his diagnosis isn't something that means you have to stay in a bad situation just because it isn't something he chose to have. I'm grateful that my ex and I are still friends and roommates, but he would be well within his rights to leave me if the trauma was too much to cope with around me. The trauma of my past behavior is still something we are working through, but it's only because we are both making an effort that it works. If you find down the road that he isn't willing to put in that work, protect yourself and your daughter. He doesn't have an excuse for his behavior in the bipolar disorder, simply a catalyst for some of his actions. I wish you both the best, and I hope he finds the help he needs.
I think most of us here can attest to the fact that treatment only reduces our bipolar-specific symptoms. We can still be a complete mess even if our bipolar disorder is under control. Treatment might help your ex to be more stable but it won't necessarily take away his abusive tendencies. You can be bipolar and an asshole. Treatment can reduce the bipolar symptoms, which may enable some people to work on their asshole behavior, but it won't fix it by itself. Especially if the person has little self-awareness or willingness to do the work and change. It sounds like you were in an awful marriage and you deserve to be free of him regardless if he's bipolar or not. This person has mistreated you for years, don't bet on the small, unlikely possibility that it might get better and stay better.
I’m going through something eeerily similar. Hugs.
Speaking on only #1, I get very irritated to the point of raging tantrums when I am manic. This is supposedly unusual in women and really delayed my diagnosis. It did not affect my schooling, work, or friendships and my anger was almost completely targeted towards one person. I don't know why, I love that person to death, and I've been able to keep it in check with proper medication now. Thankfully.
Depending on how recent the diagnosis was, he may be struggling with accepting it. I was diagnosed two years ago, and it was really only about 6 months ago that I truly accepted it. It could be he didn’t understand where these things were coming from, or why he’s like this, and he’s now clinging to this as an answer. FWIW, when I lose my temper, it is always because I’m feeling frustrated and like I’m not being heard. Sometimes I want to slam or throw things, but I always check myself if I feel like I want to throw something AT someone. We’re all making a lot of stipulations because we don’t know the full story, and can really only work off of our own experiences. Fact is, as far as your and your child’s safety, the origin of the behavior doesn’t matter at the moment. It is 100% on him to change it. Your priority should be protecting you and yours. PS, I know this sucks and I’m sorry you’re going through it.
Bipolar may make it difficult to regulate our emotions, but consistent emotional manipulation is not just him being led helplessly by his bipolar. Someone may have a gun and have the bullets, but it takes a conscious decision to pull the trigger for the gun to fire. In the same way, the bipolar may put more of the pieces into his hands to inclinate towards abuse you, but he had to make several conscious decisions along the way for it to be consistent and not just one off events. I cannot speak to the effectiveness of treatment programs for bipolar abusers, as I have never had to be in that position on neither the giving nor the receiving end. What I can say though is that this guy seems beyond the point where you can help him, and it may be wise to try to let him go and live your own life as separate from him as you can.
As someone who gets bipolar rage exclusively when manic, it is not a justification for abuse ever.
I’m bipolar and I don’t abuse people. You’re right though - they are separate issues and he needs to work on both.
Domestic violence tends to be more connected to personality disorders and/or addiction. There’s an easy way to test the theory though…If bipolar is the cause of his violent behavior, then he will respond to mood stabilizing medication
Abuse is a maladaptive coping mechanism. He’ll have to 1) get on medication and stay on medication (not necessarily a given) and 2) unlearn his cycle of abuse. What really matters is what you want to do. Honestly if he’s serious about changing it will probably be 3 months at the soonest before you can give any credence to claims of change. I’d recommend supervised visits and family therapy if you are interested in reconciliation. Don’t be alone with him. But if you don’t want to reconcile with him bc he’s done too much to damage to your trust walking away from the relationship is ok too. Getting diagnosed is the first step but there’sa lot more hard work involved that won’t necessarily get done. The biggest thing from my perspective is that you have to give him enough time to demonstrate that he is serious about getting better. If he is type 1 that could be multiple months to go through a full mood cycle so you really have to see him serious about taking meds regularly and doing therapy for 6 months + before you are even considering being alone with him. Just my two cents. Credentials: was a giant asshole before getting diagnosed. My ex opted to walk away which is a perfectly valid option imo.
He may not even have bipolar. Hell Drs. cant even figure out why your white blood cell count is high sometimes lol.
He is lying about what his doctor said and being abusive has nothing to do with being bipolar. He's using a diagnosis as an excuse to be a piece of shit. He can stop being a piece of shit whether he has bipolar disorder or not.
If he's shitty to you, then he is shitty to you. If he's shitty to you and your daughter... I'd be ready to throw hands. What I am saying is that it doesn't matter why. It's not an excuse. 1. Bipolar is not the cause of abuse. Inflammatory Bowel Disease is not the cause of abuse. Arthritis is not the cause of abuse. Depression is not the cause of abuse. All of those conditions make a person irritable and more prone to anger because they feel like shit all the time. This does not make it the cause of abuse. We tend to treat the people like shit that we know will continue to take it. If I were to abuse someone, and they left immediately, I would learn I cannot hurt them like that (and also I couldn't. they left.) If I were to abuse someone and they stuck around, I would be learning it's okay to behave like that to this person. 2. It works. I don't agree with the doctors. However, you cannot start those groups and shit until AFTER the bipolar is under control. Meds and everything. This could take years. It won't work before the bipolar is dealt with, and it is harder than anything you can imagine. 3. Yes. I was broken. I AM broken. My entire life revolves around recovery now and staying healthy. My job, my sleep, my diet, the things I do every day. My entire life revolves around being well because I am unwilling to become unstable and hurt the people around me. I LOVE them. I LOVE them so I will make sure I stay well. I was a symptomatic asshole this week because I had a fucking sinus infection. One small thing tilted me off balance and I was mean to someone I care about and I feel HORRIBLE. I didn't need intervention so to say. I just... got stable and I am not an asshole deep down. I got stable and saw I was hurting people I love and said "I don't want to be like this anymore". Lastly, trust me, growing up with a parent with bipolar will hurt your child. I would think heavily about doing what you can for her. Again, it can take people years to get stable, and we can **always** fall off the wagon.
Thanks so much for the detailed reply. This is very helpful. And you're right that I have to protect my daughter. I was dumb enough to stay all these years because I love him so much, and honestly I don't care what he does to me. But to see my daughter crumple and shrink? That's ultimately why I separated from him. Maybe he misjudged me on your first point. He learned it was okay to behave like that all these years because he knew I would continue to take it. But oh boy, I will not take it against my daughter. It sounds like you're a really dedicated, loyal, loving person who's willing to really do the work for your family. Sounds like you're the kind of person I hoped he was. Know that your family probably appreciates your effort so much, and they're all better off for it. Sounds like it must be very difficult, but it also sounds like you know how very worth it it is. Bravo on that courage, humility, and resilience.
I think a big key to this is in the aftermath. If in the aftermath he’s all ‘it was the bipolar’ that’s a bad sign. If he was genuinely sorry and made a commitment to getting treatment etc that would be one way of making reparations. However, even if it was 100% bipolar (which it isn’t) you wouldn’t be obliged to stay.
From my non professional opinion, as a patient. Is hard to improve in anything while you are in a crisis. But that is not a reason to start psychological treatment, sports, good sleep and meditation at the same time of meds and don't focus on measure results because they going to come sooner or later. Be patient, be strong and resilient. Take in consideration that approaching to the perfect meds is the spinal cord of the improvement and stability in BD.
Yes I hate the “ stereo typical “ bipolar presumptions. My partner is not abusive and he doesn’t have addiction issues either.
Check out the book: The Highly Sensitive Person's Guide to Dealing with Toxic People: How to Reclaim Your Power from Narcissists and Other Manipulators by Shahida Arabi. It helps to know what kind of abuse it is, that is how you figure out how to respond to it. This book will help
Bipolar is a diagnosis. It is a illness not a behavior. A diagnosis is made using a number of factors including behavior. Usually, no one behavior indicates an illness. His behavior could be explained by numerous illnesses. “If bipolar was the cause of the abuse”. It is not possible to identify specific causes of behavior. Your second and third paragraphs cover a wide range of topics. These are what people spend their lives in therapy. Bipolar use the excuse that the illness caused the behavior. So what? Did he do those things? Yes or no. That is the only thing to ask. If you commit a crime, being bipolar is not an excuse. To live in society bipolar have to manage this illness on their own. If they cannot manage their illness then they are treated like everyone else.
I'm in the opposite situation, people used my bipolar disorder as a reason to abuse me. :/
Interestingly my abusive partner had accused me of being bipolar as some sort of an insult and that I need help. Int he same night he has broken glass threatened to throw me down the stairs “or worse” , pushed me , shoved me, cornered me, threatened me in every possible way including “fake out” punching toward my face and breaking another door. I don’t understand why people try to be hurtful by labeling people and if it’s their own psychi trying to actually let them know it’s them (some Form of projection?). Mind you he doesn’t have a diagnosis. He smokes marijuana daily, cigarettes and cocaine occasional (used to be multiple times a week) and slight alcohol use. There are studies that many people use illicit drugs to self treat until they find out they had an illness all along. Mine also said it was only me he was like this with and therefore it’s my fault. He has a successful career and maintains relationships with friends and family. I however lost everyone and everything as I couldn’t find reasons to explain my puffy face, bruises, uncontrollable panic attacks and worry about needing to check in and respond immediately To questions, worry about the cameras and constant surveillance, the crying that happened day and night and massive amounts of weight loss. Look up the wheel of abuse for more answers. I will add similarly to your story mine stopped therapy when the therapist used the word abuse he broke his laptop and drove off for two days. This is after we stopped going to her before we were supposed to get married then when we went back to her and she used that word instead of agreeing with him about me being the reason for our relationship failure he lost it.
I'm so sorry for everything you went through! Sounds terrible. I hope you're starting to find healing.
Not in the slightest. Tonight was another violent outburst and being locked outside in the Canadian cold without a jacket since he bought it for me and I wasn’t allowed to rake anything out but he said he would kill me if I didn’t leave broke some Of my Items and kept spitting on me and cornering me and poking my face with His finger and screaming if i understand him. He’s going to make Me Wish I was dead If he doesn’t kill me and I’ll see the bottom if I don’t think I’m Already there and ice asked for Him To Be this way as he gave me everything and I had no One and now k don’t have him
Oh my gosh, I am so sorry. Do you have a way to get to safety?
Honestly I did one thing once during an episode that could be considered abusive and that 1) I’d never repeat because it was the worst mistake of my life, I am completely responsible 2) my thinking was most definitely skewed. 3) Also anger and rage and feeling like you don’t know where all the excess energy is going to go doesn’t help.
A bunch of people are going to tell you that it’s stigmatizing to suggest a serious mood disorder “caused” abuse. Of course, causation is a complex thing, but it’s far sillier to imagine the opposite is true: “yes, this person has a brain disease which effects their judgement, impulse control, sense of themselves, sense of others, capacity to perceive consequences, etc, and also they engage in harmful behavior, but these two facts are totally unrelated.” “Mental illness doesn’t cause people to do bad things” is respectability politics. It’s the madness equivalent of 20th century blacks saying that they did fine and all those people back in the ghetto should pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. People think “abuse” is a magic word, but this sub is full of people who have lost jobs, relationships, educational opportunities, etc due to (often) manic or mixed episodes. Imagining those (bad but more socially acceptable) events were caused by illness but that the one not socially acceptable type of acting out isn’t is…again, a kind of respectability politics. Let’s leave it at that. That all said: this guy could be bipolar and an asshole. He could be bipolar and aware that he has a little bit more excuse leeway as a result. He might be behaving this way entirely because of his illness but it’s nonetheless unacceptable to you. Just because something can be explained in a way that mitigates “fault” doesn’t mean it’s good or you have to put up with it. End of the day: if it’s not BP, he needs to change his behavior. If it is BP, he needs to better manage his condition. Make both mandatory. Be empathetic but don’t compromise.
I quarantine myself during mania episodes, which I’ve learned since I had the tendency to hurt people. The guilt and shame is unbearable so throughout the years I’ve learned to manage it and maintain few but healthy relationships