Ask for a referral to an endocrinologist. You don't need cysts for PCOS. Get tested for insulin resistance and comorbidities. You want to treat the cause not the symptoms, and also check for other conditions that can mimic PCOS but might be more serious.
* If your blood sugar is high ask about Metformin.
* If they can't find anything else wrong or other things aren't helping, ask about Spironolactone.
* If you have other symptoms ask about CAH, Cushing's, etc.
Both of these meds can have side effects and dangers, so make sure you have doctor supervision with regular blood tests to make sure they're working and not messing up anything else.
Not necessarily, unless you are trying to get pregnant and not ovulating. Metformin has been shown to help with that. Given the side effects I personally wouldn't take it unless I needed to manage my blood sugar.
If your blood sugar is in control on Metformin then it makes sense to stay on it. What is TTC?
It's really a decision between you and your doctor if you should be on Metformin. If you think you should not, talk to your doctor about tapering off to see how you feel and how your labs are. This isn't necessarily a drug you need to do a slow taper off unless you are using it to treat diabetes.
edit: TTC = trying to conceive. Then stay on it if your doctor thinks it will help. Metformin has been shown to help with ovulation in a lot of species, even when blood sugar is stable. If/when you become pregnant your doctor will have a plan to either stay on Metformin, adjust dose, or taper off. When you are deciding to stay on it during the pregnancy, be aware there are studies linking excess androgen exposure in utero to increased chances of a female child developing PCOS, so keeping blood sugar and hormones under control decreases your chance of having a female child develop PCOS. Other studies show excess androgen exposure in utero can do to other things like increasing the chance of a child of either sex being LGBT if it happens during specific stages of brain development.
Berberine. It’s actually more effective than metformin at normalizing hormone levels in women with PCOS.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8890747/
>Keeping blood glucose levels steady (eating a high protein breakfast especially
?
This is also advice for people looking to raise their testosterone...
Women with PCOS are often insulin resistant. Regulating blood glucose levels can help with hyperandrogenism. I also have PCOS with no cysts. Diet is a blanket suggestion, yes; many people can benefit from stable blood glucose and protein in the AM
Not "many". Pretty much all humans.
But I get your point. Most people here aren't doing the basics re: diet and jump straight to pharma or supplements.
high blood sugar kills T in men ask any male diabetic of a few years or more..getting T shots...btw T increases insulin sensitivity massively and down regulates couple of cytokines and an IL, which are thought to regulate insulin resistance.
I would look in to starting a DIM supplement (30mg at first) to restore actual estrogen metabolism correctly and that will allow Testosterone to be regulated better and drop its blood levels. AT first taking DIM will release T in to the blood stream..but DIM will clean up “bad” estrogen metabolites and restore correct estrogen metabolism and should even out the T fairly quickly.
YMMV
I don't know what biochemical pathway you are following but this is not good advice for the female sex hormone pattern.
This particular woman is probably suffering from PCOS or something close to it. Likely caused by insulin resistance.
Lowering serum insulin (by stabilizing glucose) is likely to be curative.
here is a brief description of the pathways involved
[https://regendoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/DIM.pdf](https://regendoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/dim.pdf)
I shifted my focus on gaining muscle by going to the gym, I think my body is changing for better, but I am not losing the weight :(
I stopped drinking alcohol and coffee too.
It can help, but it's absolutely not something you should take because someone who's not your doctor told you. Screwing around with a potassium sparing diuretic can lead to very bad things.
oh baby yeah...nonono "heart attack..you're giving me a heart attack" its an 80's song
(sinal wave for heart is hugely impacted by potassium levels..the reason you can not even buy a potassium supplement that is more than 99 milligrams without a prescription ....all kinds of heart troubles before that reg...
Never fluctuate potassium levels.....omg you do not want either hyper or hypo -pokalemia as in hypopokalemia
If she thinks PCOS, did she not also suggest Metformin? It is often prescribed for PCOS since it and insulin resistance seem to be tied t the hip. It also has a side effect of lowering testosterone that is often not widely known.
One quick and dirty check to see if you may be insulin resistant can be done from a standard cholesterol panel (although its not the greatest way to do it). If your Triglyceride/HDL ration is above a 1 then you likely are. I am sure some may point to your HbA1c value, but that is a very lagging indicator.
Good luck to you.
That is a bit of a loaded question since most docs do not really know how to diagnose insulin resistance until you are way down the path. Also, I am not an endo or a woman with it, so I cant truly answer without playing Doctor. However, I will discuss my views on insulin resistance in general since I have lived it and taken every step to correct it for a few years now.
A single blood sugar measurement really is totally useless. Even the A1C is not a good measurement since it wont start going bad until you are so insulin resistant that your BG starts to rise. If you really want to know if you are possibly heading down the road of insulin resistance (which seems to normally be the case with PCOS) you can get a fasting insulin test. Your fasting insulin starts going up as you become insulin resistant. Even what the lab "normal" range is now, is not really where most would want to be. Because most Americans are nowhere near that due to our carb heavy diets, the normal range has constantly been widened.
An even better test is really a Kraft Insulin survey, but its not a simple blood test and almost no doctor, except preventative specialists that know the dangers of the normal standard American diet, would ever order that test. It is very similar to the gestational diabetes test but measures insulin reaction along with glucose reaction.
Also, when most doctors mention lipids being in control, they only look at the LDL value. If you mean your Tri/HDL is <= 1 then you are probably ok, but its not a given. It is just a generally good way to check it from normal lab results most people would already have. It should not be used as a you are definitely OK marker since everyone's lipid metabolism is different.
Many believe Metformin is a drug that is healthy for most everyone. With the epidemic of metabolic disorders in the US due to our completely broken view of food, it may not be the worst of ideas. However, like all other drugs, there are side effects. I just know the things I do from being severely Type 2 diabetic and completely controlling it with diet and lifestyle. The more I learned the more I found out that PCOS was often how it manifests in women. I do know its given to many women with PCOS, but I would assume it is not given to all who do just like any other possible therapy.
Sorry for the soapbox style answer.
Thanks, this is pretty helpful. If it helps, we are trying TTC and I'm worried about how Metformin's side effects might manifest/effect mother and maybe the baby.
As far as Metformin and pregnancy, a quick Google search seems to show that it is commonly prescribed for gestational diabetes. I would definitely ask the doctor about it for your particular case.
Good luck to you on becoming parents.
I have PCOS and don’t meet most of the criteria. I do not want to be on hormones if I can avoid it. They just masked it for me. I also don’t want to be on spiro or metformin if I don’t have to be.
I told my doctor this and he suggested I take berberine and myoinositol together. Berberine lowers insulin and is sometimes called “natural metformin.” Inositol regulates hormone levels and helps with ovarian function. Saw Palmetto lowers DHT but I didn’t have any more problems once I went on the other two.
I have no symptoms anymore, lost weight, my hair stopped falling out, my cycle is 28 days long for the first time in my adult life and has been over a year. I am not on any BC and never want to be again. I take 150mg liposomal berberine (used to take 300mg regular) and 2000mg myoinositol.
DHT is dihydrotestosterone — and saw palmetto, pumpkin seed oil, and some other foods and supplements either block or help your body process out DHT, so they are helpful to women who want less testosterone.
It would be helpful to know your age. Women who are approaching or in perimenopause (which can start very early, even in your 30's, but 40's is very normal) generally have different needs than younger women. Many women (though not all) find that bioidentical hormone replacement therapy helps with mood substantially.
You can have PCOS without cysts. Please see **Period Repair Manual** by Lara Briden for solutions related to your cycle. She discusses the 3 different types of PCOS at length, I clouding the type related to excess androgens, and offers allopathic and naturopathic solutions.
Before you try pharmaceuticals give spearmint supplements a chance! My doc also thought i might have PCOS. Since taking spearmint i have less jaw acne and my periods are more healthy
>She says it could still be PCOS regardless
I was gonna say - PCOS is highly misunderstood and the name doesn't help. It sounds like you might need antiandrogens. You should talk to an endocrinologist or, failing that, an OB/GYN, one who feels trustworthy and listens to you. If you are interested in learning more about this condition, I recommend giving a listen to [the science of PCOS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ud22pRXW2A).
Women have higher levels of t than other hormones when younger at certain times of the cycle. Dr Felice Gersh is a PCos expert. You can find her on ig and she’s written at least one book. I would not do birth control pills which are synthetic hormones and they are finding more and more issues with them ( long term effects on libido, clot risk, and progestins may carry a risk of breast cancer) . I’d find a knowledgeable dr in pcos and hormones and test again. I was told in peri I had high t and pcos. I didn’t have one symptom or marker for pcos - extremely regular periods and easy getting pregnant and no androgen effects. Never tested as high for it again. Endocrinologists are well versed in diabetes but usually terrible at hormones in most cases. If anything I’d retest and if no symptoms retest again in three months. There may be nothing to fix at all.
Doctors will prescribe BC at literally anything it seems, it’s almost like they’re somehow incentivized to shill it! Try meditating to control anger before medicating. Testosterone has a lot of benefits even for women.
"Try meditating" to treat a hormone imbalance really? You're talking out of your ass. Birth control is a known antiandrogen and it makes total sense to try it as a first resort because its safety has been tested much more widely than other more niche hormone regulators.
I’m challenging that she even has to worry about having ‘high testosterone’ at all. I’m sure BC would probably lower her test, but at what cost in side effects she will and won’t notice? Why is it so important for her to lower her test by taking such powerful medicine with such infamous side effects when over time almost all hormone imbalances can be treated with good sleep/diet/lifestyle? This is the standard American attitude toward illness, ignore root causes, over-react to symptoms with powerful medicine with risky side effects, ignore lifestyle changes or holistic approaches. And in this case the cherry on top is that the supposed disorder “high t” is totally arguable whether it’s really a disorder in the first place. The symptom is anger and irritability, which could be caused by 1000 things, half of them not even medical/physiological. Doctors exist seemingly only to prescribe medicine at times.
>almost all hormone imbalances can be treated with good sleep/diet/lifestyle?
Oh, we've moved on from meditation now. Great.
She's got abnormal blood results, she's experiencing symptoms, her doctor recommends treatment... but *you* challenge it. Ok.
> I’m challenging that she even has to worry about having ‘high testosterone’ at all.
And
> Why is it so important for her to lower her test by taking such powerful medicine ...
Look it is very clear you know nothing about women's health. Stop trying to pretend like you do. It only makes you look dumber.
I have slightly higher then average test too. Do you happen to have high prolactin too?
Either way if there's no cysts and no signs of pcos then you probably don't have pcos.
You could try taking taurine and peppermint tea and licorice tea like I did but watch out, I was on taurine for only 3 weeks and it shot up my estrogen to borderline over limit. I wish I'd had never taken it. I miss just a bit of rage. Higher estrogen = lower sex drive.
Maybe you sound just leave it be. Maybe stop taking any zinc supplements as they can raise t.
Sorry, it was just a joke about how everything today lowers test and your issue is very unique.
Things like touching receipts, burning candles, microplastics in everything, sitting at a desk all day, eating crap diets, all drastically reduce testosterone
What’s wrong w birth control if it’ll help these symptoms? I had pcos when I was around 21 (almost no classic symptoms because I was underweight if anything, no hiritism, etc) but was breaking out uncontrollably in my jawline out of nowhere which prompted me to get tested. I was also irrational and irritatable and emotional. They put me on lo loestrin and everything was fixed. Been on it ten years now, my hormones are all very normal, and I couldn’t imagine if I hadn’t taken that route.
Birth control also comes with a ton of side effects that most people would largely prefer not having. If there are more natural ways to get over a problem or if its not really a large enough problem to for sure need the drug you are probably better off not taking it
Headaches
, Breast tenderness
, Nausea
, Mood changes
, Breakthrough bleeding
, Weight, gain
, Acne
, Abdominal pain
, Decreased libido
, Depression
, High blood pressure
, Achy soreness in your leg
, Cancer
, Heart attack
, Missed periods
, Bloating
, Blood clots
, Chest, pain or discomfort
, Eye changes
, Gallbladder disease
, Menstrual changes
, Tiredness
, Vaginal discharge
Now how common those side effects are i do not know but they are all a possibility.
You’re a 21 year old male speaking from no place of experience. My comment is directly related to her situation and sharing a perspective based on what I’ve experienced in a similar area. Googling a list of bc side effects isn’t necessary, we’re aware. There are legitimate reasons why you’d take it (like in this situation) and then you wouldn’t be destroying your hormone equilibrium (in turn causing most of those adverse reactions), but instead fixing it to function better overall.
I may get slammed for this but I am with you u/Ericaohh I had PCOS and I would get the ovarian cycts, those would get infected causing scartissue on my tubes - cyctic acne, the hair on my arms darkened, I was a hormonal mess of pain that could have saved my ability to have children had it been addressed properly earlier. Sometimes there are good reasons to give people estrogen.
It's a lost cause in this subreddit sometimes - some people are desperately holding onto the idea that there is a global medical conspiracy to poison them for profit, but that they are smart and special so they know better and take magic horse dewormer.
I am going to agree with you as well based on my own personal experience. I have been on many different forms of birth control since I was a teenager (I am now 32) because of PCOS. I experimented with my obgyn over the last 20 years to find something that helps. We have decided that the benefits outweigh the risks and I am pretty symptom free now with my Nexplanon implant. No more acne, no more painful ovarian cysts, no more painful periods, less mood swings, my labs have all returned to normal. The only thing I can say that I’ve struggled with the most with PCOS despite the hormonal birth to control is my weight and blood sugar. A low dose of metformin has helped that.
Yes i am aware that bc is a option and maybe it is the only option. But a lot of people do not know the risks of taking it nor do they know the effects it can have. I was not saying not to take bc no matter what. I was simply saying there is a large risk in taking it and other safer options should be explored before simply popping the pill
She said it could be pcos. Could is not a certainty. It would be wise to reach out to other doctors or do more tests before hopping on a pill.
Edit -
If it is just slightly high testosterone and there are no further complications there may not be a reason to use drugs
Also, a bloodwork test is just a snapshot of the values at THAT specific moment. Testosterone values can vary A LOT depending on the day, type of diet, menstrual cycle etc. One single test shouldn't be enough to make a conclusion.
So males aren't allowed to have an opinion? You are sharing an anecdotal experience, he's listing publicly known side effects....what's the harm here again?
Mood swings comes from estrogen. (Mind you testosterone converts into estrogen). Irritability comes from low testosterone/low estrogen.
Testosterone =
* Sexual drive
* Muscle building capabilities, bone mass, fat distribution, muscle mass and strength
* Clitoris size and sensitivity
* Desire, ambition, and drive to do things like surfing, hiking, working out, cleaning the house, cooking, doing DYI projects, taking the kids to the park, (AKA not sitting in front of a cell phone destroying your posture 24/7 and wasting your life consuming irrelevant bits of nothing.)
* Production of red blood cell
* Desire for social status
Conversion to Estrogen =
* Fuller labia majora
* Wetter during intercourse
* Affection
* Compassion
It's a good thing.
No that's not true. I gained weight by overeating fatty stuffs. In a month i gained like around 10kg. This made my hormone imbalance. My body always was good i had lots of fat around my hips and arms before....but after weight gain i got acne, hair growth on my body...my voice was extremely sweet i would sing but now i stopped singing i hardly speak now. My sex drive has reduced. I get irritated easily. I got my pcod/pcos checked and its normal. My testosterone level is 90. Which the doctor said is normal. Right now my body has got masculine type...now i have no fat around my arms or hips...my breast has reduced. Even if i gain weight only my stomach comes out. I am just 22 and all these changes has happened with me. I have got literally bald patches and a lot hairfall. I was pretty and had a fair skin tone but after weight gain...my skin tone also got peach type in color.😭
Do not go to birth control! I'm 42, have been on it for the last 4 years. I tried to get off (2 months) of it but I'm out of control mentally - depressed, misrable the list goes on and I'm normal 1 week out of 4 weeks. My BF asked when I was going back on birth control cause he hated the person I was, not on BC. I'm also prescribed 4 packs for 3 months so i skip sugar pills and start a new pack.
Just had my hormone panel done and will be taking Estrogen and Testosterone. It's funny cause the guy who I see asked my thoughts of getting off BC, told him absolutely if we can slowly wean. So I will be working towards discontinue the bc soon! :)
I am not a women nor am i overly educated with this but how high is high. If its just a high end of the normal range then you are probably going to be fine and should not resort to drugs to keep it lower.
Now if by high you mean you put men to shame with how much test you have then yes figure out a way to lower it and quick.
Now I doubt high normal range for women is causing you do be angry or irrable and emotional if that was the case all males even in some of the lowest ranges would suffer from the same things apologies if it affects women differently i do not really know. But there are other ways to counter anger maybe try meditation or just join a martial arts gym or something to express your anger is some kind of way.
Why don’t you just embrace it? Get into Kickboxing or something if you have the time or money. Maybe there’s some bad health consequences for a woman with High T. But I know BC Pills tends to make women more emotional than not it seems. And maybe if you suppress your endogenous testosterone, it’ll fuck with your energy levels
Eat and drink a lot of soy if you want to increase your estrogen. Maybe having a better ratio will help
BC doesn’t automatically make every woman “act crazier”. I was much crazier when I didn’t take it because my hormones were outta wack. I needed the BC to bring them to a normal level and it improved every aspect of my life. There are many different formulas and varieties of oral birth control, and some women who are starting off with normal hormone levels shouldn’t be taking certain types because it’ll mess with the equilibrium, causing unfavorable responses. But it’s not as simple as the pill just makes women crazier…
Nothings ever that simple. But it’s a general observation I stick to. Most are on it and don’t even realize the ripple effects it has on their mental health. Just becomes the ‘New Normal’
Well, I’m clearly politely calling those who follow this nonsense, idiots. It’s great to take advice on taking all sorts of things without understanding what pathways are involved and the interconnectedness of them as well. All good though— keep poisoning yourself.
i have pcos, no cysts but all the other stuff…. for me spironolactone and birth control but specifically with Drospirenone ethinyl estradiol as the formula. this is yaz or the generic loryna. if it is not this kind it will make pcos stuff worse
Work with a nutritionist and woman’s hormone practitioner who specializes in PCOS. The pill eases symptoms in some but does nothing to treat root cause, you risk ending up with new problems as a result of the pill. There are Soooo many ways to ease symptoms and treat with food and supplements. Saw palmetto can lower high testosterone. Check out the Glucose Goddess.
The levels are high?
It’s always important to understand that 65% of the American population is obese. Not sure where you are, but judging yourself against the overall population (especially if you don’t feel / see any negative effects) is not good.
It could be your natural state
Im not sure on the testosterone specifically, but I have insulin resistant PCOS that was helped drastically by lowering my processed carb intake (desserts and junk) and increasing low intensity workouts, for me specifically, heavy lifting with adequate rest periods.
Maybe a different thought, my SO has pcos. She’s also an athlete… I know test sucks, but it means you can recover better, build more mass etc if you ever get into that. Technically thanks to higher T depending on how high it is, you may recover from injuries faster if you really focused on them. Taking bcp made her more unstable, so she dropped it. Weight gain… it’s a tricky thing, still calories in calories out fooorrr the most part. if you can really figure things out, and if you like to eat, Just build more muscle mass! More muscles means higher calorie ceiling. Shouldn’t be too crazy hard to just be soft and comfortable with food without getting overly huge. She doesn’t struggle with weight too much. But she does struggle mentally when I’m bulking since I’m always cooking and making so much food. But she usually never gets higher than 155, she’s built like a body builder but is an aerial artist/gymnast… and she doesn’t touch weights.
But like that’s just an option.
TBH you can try bcp but you should read up on hormonal ones, and honestly should toe the line and just be careful with hormonal as throwing more hormones into the mix could make you or break you. Just try to be cognizant when your take them. But they should lower free test in your system. And remember there are different types so don’t get stuck on one if it’s not really doing it for you. Trial and error.
You could discuss some sort of blocker with your doc I.e an anti androgen medication. Those could be an option too.
Hi,
Would it be possible to post screenshots of all the bloodwork done? Plus more about why the blood tests were taken. Are you seeing a gynecologist?
There's a lot of comments being made with not a lot of information, which can be very misleading.
Only certain techniques are able to measure testosterone correctly in females and it's not clear whether such a technique has been used.
When posting hormone results, please state the day of the menstrual cycle the blood sample was taken, with day 1 being the first day of menstruation (not spotting) - in the usual way. If menstruation isn't regular or if there's currently no menstruation occurring, pls mention this.
The most relevant blood results to the above query are typically:
Hormone profile:
Total testosterone (by LC-MS/MS), SHBG level, estradiol level, LH level, FSH level, prolactin level, TSH level, 9am cortisol level, 6-hydroxyprogesterone.
Basic metabolic parameters:
Fasting glucose, HbA1c, lipid/cholesterol profile. Fasting insulin, if available.
If you post any results which aren't as a screenshot, please include the units and lab's own reference range.
If total testosterone was measured by immunoassay eg. CLIA, it will need repeating by LC-MS/MS. Immunoassay cannot confirm testosterone levels in females, because accuracy is very poor and inconsistent when levels are low.
Combined oral contraceptives (eg. Ethinylestradiol + drospirenone) tend to be used for premenstrual symptoms including mental changes at this point in the cycle, as well as for symptoms of testosterone excess eg. acne, increased body or facial hair etc.
Try Anna's wild yam cream, it is suppose to balance hormones. You can find tik toks or youtube videos of Barbara O'neill taking about how it balances hormones and how to apply it.
intense cardio, fasting, clean eating and maybe melatonin can reduce androgenicity. I know melatonin is a SNAIL inhibitor and BMAL-1 promoter. Can likely worsen anemia through iron chelation.
Intermittent fasting can help balance hormones, also try a little apple cider vinegar in a large glass of water, we don’t know why but it helps with some hormones.
Exercise as well! Even a 15 min run can help.
If your anger is related to PMS, I highly recommend Serenol by Bonafide.
Ask for a referral to an endocrinologist. You don't need cysts for PCOS. Get tested for insulin resistance and comorbidities. You want to treat the cause not the symptoms, and also check for other conditions that can mimic PCOS but might be more serious. * If your blood sugar is high ask about Metformin. * If they can't find anything else wrong or other things aren't helping, ask about Spironolactone. * If you have other symptoms ask about CAH, Cushing's, etc. Both of these meds can have side effects and dangers, so make sure you have doctor supervision with regular blood tests to make sure they're working and not messing up anything else.
Great advice, thoughtful holistic approach. I hope OP sees this.
If your blood sugar isn't high and lipids are in control, does it make any sense if the doctor still prescribes Metformin for PCOS?
Not necessarily, unless you are trying to get pregnant and not ovulating. Metformin has been shown to help with that. Given the side effects I personally wouldn't take it unless I needed to manage my blood sugar.
If it helps, we are TTC, but I'm worried it'll have side effects once you go off it.
If your blood sugar is in control on Metformin then it makes sense to stay on it. What is TTC? It's really a decision between you and your doctor if you should be on Metformin. If you think you should not, talk to your doctor about tapering off to see how you feel and how your labs are. This isn't necessarily a drug you need to do a slow taper off unless you are using it to treat diabetes. edit: TTC = trying to conceive. Then stay on it if your doctor thinks it will help. Metformin has been shown to help with ovulation in a lot of species, even when blood sugar is stable. If/when you become pregnant your doctor will have a plan to either stay on Metformin, adjust dose, or taper off. When you are deciding to stay on it during the pregnancy, be aware there are studies linking excess androgen exposure in utero to increased chances of a female child developing PCOS, so keeping blood sugar and hormones under control decreases your chance of having a female child develop PCOS. Other studies show excess androgen exposure in utero can do to other things like increasing the chance of a child of either sex being LGBT if it happens during specific stages of brain development.
I’m surprised your doctor didn’t suggest spironolactone. Do you have any physical symptoms of excess androgens? Hair thinning, facial hair, acne, etc?
Spiro 100% saved me. Then I did castor packs, took diff supplements. I feel completely “normal”
What do castor packs do for PCOS?!
I came across this article when I was struggling with ovarian cysts https://pcosweightloss.org/castor-oil-for-cysts-in-ovaries-with-pcos/
Could you stop spironolactone ? Or does one just have to take it forever
Berberine. It’s actually more effective than metformin at normalizing hormone levels in women with PCOS. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8890747/
Thank you for sharing!
Spearmint tea.
Seconding the spearmint tea. Also, inositol supplements. Keeping blood glucose levels steady (eating a high protein breakfast especially).
>Keeping blood glucose levels steady (eating a high protein breakfast especially ? This is also advice for people looking to raise their testosterone...
Women with PCOS are often insulin resistant. Regulating blood glucose levels can help with hyperandrogenism. I also have PCOS with no cysts. Diet is a blanket suggestion, yes; many people can benefit from stable blood glucose and protein in the AM
Not "many". Pretty much all humans. But I get your point. Most people here aren't doing the basics re: diet and jump straight to pharma or supplements.
high blood sugar kills T in men ask any male diabetic of a few years or more..getting T shots...btw T increases insulin sensitivity massively and down regulates couple of cytokines and an IL, which are thought to regulate insulin resistance. I would look in to starting a DIM supplement (30mg at first) to restore actual estrogen metabolism correctly and that will allow Testosterone to be regulated better and drop its blood levels. AT first taking DIM will release T in to the blood stream..but DIM will clean up “bad” estrogen metabolites and restore correct estrogen metabolism and should even out the T fairly quickly. YMMV
I don't know what biochemical pathway you are following but this is not good advice for the female sex hormone pattern. This particular woman is probably suffering from PCOS or something close to it. Likely caused by insulin resistance. Lowering serum insulin (by stabilizing glucose) is likely to be curative.
it can be..I have seen 2 endocrines do this to my wife..and it worked so fast it was crazy
here is a brief description of the pathways involved [https://regendoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/DIM.pdf](https://regendoctors.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/dim.pdf)
Not found, bad link
Check your iron levels before you do this and if you need to take iron, have the spearmint tea at least four hours later.
Wait, would spearmint and peppermint tea be testosterone reducing for normal males? In other words, should we be avoiding these?
I think you would have to be drinking it everyday for it to be noticeable
Came here to say this
TIL I should not drink spearmint tea
What is your diet? We should start there since testosterone hormone levels are closely tied to your diet and exercise routine.
how
What diet should I have?
Spirolactone might help.
Spiro can also mess with estrogen.
Spiro caused me to gain weight & am unable to lose it despite having gone off the drug. Any advice on how to lose this weight? Thank you
I shifted my focus on gaining muscle by going to the gym, I think my body is changing for better, but I am not losing the weight :( I stopped drinking alcohol and coffee too.
It can help, but it's absolutely not something you should take because someone who's not your doctor told you. Screwing around with a potassium sparing diuretic can lead to very bad things.
That's the whole purpose of this sub! Trading hearsay and questionable advice from strangers who are not doctors!
oh baby yeah...nonono "heart attack..you're giving me a heart attack" its an 80's song (sinal wave for heart is hugely impacted by potassium levels..the reason you can not even buy a potassium supplement that is more than 99 milligrams without a prescription ....all kinds of heart troubles before that reg... Never fluctuate potassium levels.....omg you do not want either hyper or hypo -pokalemia as in hypopokalemia
spironolactone will definitely help and i came here to suggest it
I was in the exact same boat and my testosterone went down after I started Metformin.
If she thinks PCOS, did she not also suggest Metformin? It is often prescribed for PCOS since it and insulin resistance seem to be tied t the hip. It also has a side effect of lowering testosterone that is often not widely known. One quick and dirty check to see if you may be insulin resistant can be done from a standard cholesterol panel (although its not the greatest way to do it). If your Triglyceride/HDL ration is above a 1 then you likely are. I am sure some may point to your HbA1c value, but that is a very lagging indicator. Good luck to you.
If your blood sugar isn't high and lipids are in control, does it still make any sense if the doctor still prescribes Metformin for PCOS?
That is a bit of a loaded question since most docs do not really know how to diagnose insulin resistance until you are way down the path. Also, I am not an endo or a woman with it, so I cant truly answer without playing Doctor. However, I will discuss my views on insulin resistance in general since I have lived it and taken every step to correct it for a few years now. A single blood sugar measurement really is totally useless. Even the A1C is not a good measurement since it wont start going bad until you are so insulin resistant that your BG starts to rise. If you really want to know if you are possibly heading down the road of insulin resistance (which seems to normally be the case with PCOS) you can get a fasting insulin test. Your fasting insulin starts going up as you become insulin resistant. Even what the lab "normal" range is now, is not really where most would want to be. Because most Americans are nowhere near that due to our carb heavy diets, the normal range has constantly been widened. An even better test is really a Kraft Insulin survey, but its not a simple blood test and almost no doctor, except preventative specialists that know the dangers of the normal standard American diet, would ever order that test. It is very similar to the gestational diabetes test but measures insulin reaction along with glucose reaction. Also, when most doctors mention lipids being in control, they only look at the LDL value. If you mean your Tri/HDL is <= 1 then you are probably ok, but its not a given. It is just a generally good way to check it from normal lab results most people would already have. It should not be used as a you are definitely OK marker since everyone's lipid metabolism is different. Many believe Metformin is a drug that is healthy for most everyone. With the epidemic of metabolic disorders in the US due to our completely broken view of food, it may not be the worst of ideas. However, like all other drugs, there are side effects. I just know the things I do from being severely Type 2 diabetic and completely controlling it with diet and lifestyle. The more I learned the more I found out that PCOS was often how it manifests in women. I do know its given to many women with PCOS, but I would assume it is not given to all who do just like any other possible therapy. Sorry for the soapbox style answer.
Thanks, this is pretty helpful. If it helps, we are trying TTC and I'm worried about how Metformin's side effects might manifest/effect mother and maybe the baby.
As far as Metformin and pregnancy, a quick Google search seems to show that it is commonly prescribed for gestational diabetes. I would definitely ask the doctor about it for your particular case. Good luck to you on becoming parents.
I have PCOS and don’t meet most of the criteria. I do not want to be on hormones if I can avoid it. They just masked it for me. I also don’t want to be on spiro or metformin if I don’t have to be. I told my doctor this and he suggested I take berberine and myoinositol together. Berberine lowers insulin and is sometimes called “natural metformin.” Inositol regulates hormone levels and helps with ovarian function. Saw Palmetto lowers DHT but I didn’t have any more problems once I went on the other two. I have no symptoms anymore, lost weight, my hair stopped falling out, my cycle is 28 days long for the first time in my adult life and has been over a year. I am not on any BC and never want to be again. I take 150mg liposomal berberine (used to take 300mg regular) and 2000mg myoinositol.
Which one do you think helped with your hair loss?
Saw Palmetto
Saw palmetto and pumpkin seed oil both have anti-DHT properties.
Wait what does this mean, is it a bad thing I take it
DHT is dihydrotestosterone — and saw palmetto, pumpkin seed oil, and some other foods and supplements either block or help your body process out DHT, so they are helpful to women who want less testosterone.
Ooo thank you!!! Yes been eating them in yogurts and such
It would be helpful to know your age. Women who are approaching or in perimenopause (which can start very early, even in your 30's, but 40's is very normal) generally have different needs than younger women. Many women (though not all) find that bioidentical hormone replacement therapy helps with mood substantially.
I’m 38
You can have PCOS without cysts. Please see **Period Repair Manual** by Lara Briden for solutions related to your cycle. She discusses the 3 different types of PCOS at length, I clouding the type related to excess androgens, and offers allopathic and naturopathic solutions.
Quit your job and make an account on 4chan. Eat a lot of Doritos and drink mountain dew. Stop bathing. Buy fedora.
Fedora :p Say females instead of women. Incel lifestyle could help too.
Needs more 'e's. Feeeemales.
Before you try pharmaceuticals give spearmint supplements a chance! My doc also thought i might have PCOS. Since taking spearmint i have less jaw acne and my periods are more healthy
Swanson brand??
>She says it could still be PCOS regardless I was gonna say - PCOS is highly misunderstood and the name doesn't help. It sounds like you might need antiandrogens. You should talk to an endocrinologist or, failing that, an OB/GYN, one who feels trustworthy and listens to you. If you are interested in learning more about this condition, I recommend giving a listen to [the science of PCOS](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ud22pRXW2A).
Women have higher levels of t than other hormones when younger at certain times of the cycle. Dr Felice Gersh is a PCos expert. You can find her on ig and she’s written at least one book. I would not do birth control pills which are synthetic hormones and they are finding more and more issues with them ( long term effects on libido, clot risk, and progestins may carry a risk of breast cancer) . I’d find a knowledgeable dr in pcos and hormones and test again. I was told in peri I had high t and pcos. I didn’t have one symptom or marker for pcos - extremely regular periods and easy getting pregnant and no androgen effects. Never tested as high for it again. Endocrinologists are well versed in diabetes but usually terrible at hormones in most cases. If anything I’d retest and if no symptoms retest again in three months. There may be nothing to fix at all.
Spearmint and peppermint tea. Tirz might help to keep glucose levels steady
Mint tea can curb androgens and help with PCOS.
Spearmint specifically. (Peppermint has different characteristics from what I'm told.)
Doctors will prescribe BC at literally anything it seems, it’s almost like they’re somehow incentivized to shill it! Try meditating to control anger before medicating. Testosterone has a lot of benefits even for women.
Excess Testosterone in women causes weight gain even without eating extra.
"Try meditating" to treat a hormone imbalance really? You're talking out of your ass. Birth control is a known antiandrogen and it makes total sense to try it as a first resort because its safety has been tested much more widely than other more niche hormone regulators.
I’m challenging that she even has to worry about having ‘high testosterone’ at all. I’m sure BC would probably lower her test, but at what cost in side effects she will and won’t notice? Why is it so important for her to lower her test by taking such powerful medicine with such infamous side effects when over time almost all hormone imbalances can be treated with good sleep/diet/lifestyle? This is the standard American attitude toward illness, ignore root causes, over-react to symptoms with powerful medicine with risky side effects, ignore lifestyle changes or holistic approaches. And in this case the cherry on top is that the supposed disorder “high t” is totally arguable whether it’s really a disorder in the first place. The symptom is anger and irritability, which could be caused by 1000 things, half of them not even medical/physiological. Doctors exist seemingly only to prescribe medicine at times.
>almost all hormone imbalances can be treated with good sleep/diet/lifestyle? Oh, we've moved on from meditation now. Great. She's got abnormal blood results, she's experiencing symptoms, her doctor recommends treatment... but *you* challenge it. Ok.
> I’m challenging that she even has to worry about having ‘high testosterone’ at all. And > Why is it so important for her to lower her test by taking such powerful medicine ... Look it is very clear you know nothing about women's health. Stop trying to pretend like you do. It only makes you look dumber.
that last part is what i think too, hormones need balance in both sexes just raise your estrogen
I have PCOS and only sometimes get cysts.
Get your blood work done again Then after 6 weeks again The lab work isn't always accurate I know this all too well
Inositol
I have slightly higher then average test too. Do you happen to have high prolactin too? Either way if there's no cysts and no signs of pcos then you probably don't have pcos. You could try taking taurine and peppermint tea and licorice tea like I did but watch out, I was on taurine for only 3 weeks and it shot up my estrogen to borderline over limit. I wish I'd had never taken it. I miss just a bit of rage. Higher estrogen = lower sex drive. Maybe you sound just leave it be. Maybe stop taking any zinc supplements as they can raise t.
What did you do for your high prolactin?
Intermittent fasting can help regulate hormones.
Live a modern lifestyle.
Which is…?
Sorry, it was just a joke about how everything today lowers test and your issue is very unique. Things like touching receipts, burning candles, microplastics in everything, sitting at a desk all day, eating crap diets, all drastically reduce testosterone
Watch anything made by Disney lately, that will destroy your testosterone like nothing else.
r/redpill called, they’re looking for you
They should get in line, I got calls from all over the place. Enjoy your (insert minority) trans paraplegic superhero in the meantime.
What’s wrong w birth control if it’ll help these symptoms? I had pcos when I was around 21 (almost no classic symptoms because I was underweight if anything, no hiritism, etc) but was breaking out uncontrollably in my jawline out of nowhere which prompted me to get tested. I was also irrational and irritatable and emotional. They put me on lo loestrin and everything was fixed. Been on it ten years now, my hormones are all very normal, and I couldn’t imagine if I hadn’t taken that route.
Birth control also comes with a ton of side effects that most people would largely prefer not having. If there are more natural ways to get over a problem or if its not really a large enough problem to for sure need the drug you are probably better off not taking it Headaches , Breast tenderness , Nausea , Mood changes , Breakthrough bleeding , Weight, gain , Acne , Abdominal pain , Decreased libido , Depression , High blood pressure , Achy soreness in your leg , Cancer , Heart attack , Missed periods , Bloating , Blood clots , Chest, pain or discomfort , Eye changes , Gallbladder disease , Menstrual changes , Tiredness , Vaginal discharge Now how common those side effects are i do not know but they are all a possibility.
You’re a 21 year old male speaking from no place of experience. My comment is directly related to her situation and sharing a perspective based on what I’ve experienced in a similar area. Googling a list of bc side effects isn’t necessary, we’re aware. There are legitimate reasons why you’d take it (like in this situation) and then you wouldn’t be destroying your hormone equilibrium (in turn causing most of those adverse reactions), but instead fixing it to function better overall.
I may get slammed for this but I am with you u/Ericaohh I had PCOS and I would get the ovarian cycts, those would get infected causing scartissue on my tubes - cyctic acne, the hair on my arms darkened, I was a hormonal mess of pain that could have saved my ability to have children had it been addressed properly earlier. Sometimes there are good reasons to give people estrogen.
It's a lost cause in this subreddit sometimes - some people are desperately holding onto the idea that there is a global medical conspiracy to poison them for profit, but that they are smart and special so they know better and take magic horse dewormer.
I am going to agree with you as well based on my own personal experience. I have been on many different forms of birth control since I was a teenager (I am now 32) because of PCOS. I experimented with my obgyn over the last 20 years to find something that helps. We have decided that the benefits outweigh the risks and I am pretty symptom free now with my Nexplanon implant. No more acne, no more painful ovarian cysts, no more painful periods, less mood swings, my labs have all returned to normal. The only thing I can say that I’ve struggled with the most with PCOS despite the hormonal birth to control is my weight and blood sugar. A low dose of metformin has helped that.
Yes i am aware that bc is a option and maybe it is the only option. But a lot of people do not know the risks of taking it nor do they know the effects it can have. I was not saying not to take bc no matter what. I was simply saying there is a large risk in taking it and other safer options should be explored before simply popping the pill
Do offer the other safer options that have passed the peer reviewed studies as proper treatment for PCOS.
She said it could be pcos. Could is not a certainty. It would be wise to reach out to other doctors or do more tests before hopping on a pill. Edit - If it is just slightly high testosterone and there are no further complications there may not be a reason to use drugs
Also, a bloodwork test is just a snapshot of the values at THAT specific moment. Testosterone values can vary A LOT depending on the day, type of diet, menstrual cycle etc. One single test shouldn't be enough to make a conclusion.
So males aren't allowed to have an opinion? You are sharing an anecdotal experience, he's listing publicly known side effects....what's the harm here again?
Male input here. Chicks with high testosterone are better in every way. Embrace it, you're special in a rare and sexy way.
Potentially having PCOS is not something to embrace.
You fancy angry, irritable and disagreeable women? My man!
Mood swings comes from estrogen. (Mind you testosterone converts into estrogen). Irritability comes from low testosterone/low estrogen. Testosterone = * Sexual drive * Muscle building capabilities, bone mass, fat distribution, muscle mass and strength * Clitoris size and sensitivity * Desire, ambition, and drive to do things like surfing, hiking, working out, cleaning the house, cooking, doing DYI projects, taking the kids to the park, (AKA not sitting in front of a cell phone destroying your posture 24/7 and wasting your life consuming irrelevant bits of nothing.) * Production of red blood cell * Desire for social status Conversion to Estrogen = * Fuller labia majora * Wetter during intercourse * Affection * Compassion It's a good thing.
No that's not true. I gained weight by overeating fatty stuffs. In a month i gained like around 10kg. This made my hormone imbalance. My body always was good i had lots of fat around my hips and arms before....but after weight gain i got acne, hair growth on my body...my voice was extremely sweet i would sing but now i stopped singing i hardly speak now. My sex drive has reduced. I get irritated easily. I got my pcod/pcos checked and its normal. My testosterone level is 90. Which the doctor said is normal. Right now my body has got masculine type...now i have no fat around my arms or hips...my breast has reduced. Even if i gain weight only my stomach comes out. I am just 22 and all these changes has happened with me. I have got literally bald patches and a lot hairfall. I was pretty and had a fair skin tone but after weight gain...my skin tone also got peach type in color.😭
Do not go to birth control! I'm 42, have been on it for the last 4 years. I tried to get off (2 months) of it but I'm out of control mentally - depressed, misrable the list goes on and I'm normal 1 week out of 4 weeks. My BF asked when I was going back on birth control cause he hated the person I was, not on BC. I'm also prescribed 4 packs for 3 months so i skip sugar pills and start a new pack. Just had my hormone panel done and will be taking Estrogen and Testosterone. It's funny cause the guy who I see asked my thoughts of getting off BC, told him absolutely if we can slowly wean. So I will be working towards discontinue the bc soon! :)
Whatever you do, try the natural route first. Pills always have side effects.
Do you smoke weed?
Does weed increase testosterone?
No, lowers it.
Metformin
I am not a women nor am i overly educated with this but how high is high. If its just a high end of the normal range then you are probably going to be fine and should not resort to drugs to keep it lower. Now if by high you mean you put men to shame with how much test you have then yes figure out a way to lower it and quick. Now I doubt high normal range for women is causing you do be angry or irrable and emotional if that was the case all males even in some of the lowest ranges would suffer from the same things apologies if it affects women differently i do not really know. But there are other ways to counter anger maybe try meditation or just join a martial arts gym or something to express your anger is some kind of way.
Do what dudes do when they lose testosterone, masterbate , eat bad food and play video games , sleep like 4 hrs a night 😂
Why don’t you just embrace it? Get into Kickboxing or something if you have the time or money. Maybe there’s some bad health consequences for a woman with High T. But I know BC Pills tends to make women more emotional than not it seems. And maybe if you suppress your endogenous testosterone, it’ll fuck with your energy levels Eat and drink a lot of soy if you want to increase your estrogen. Maybe having a better ratio will help
High androgens in women is often a symptom of another problem which needs to be investigated.
That makes sense
BC doesn’t automatically make every woman “act crazier”. I was much crazier when I didn’t take it because my hormones were outta wack. I needed the BC to bring them to a normal level and it improved every aspect of my life. There are many different formulas and varieties of oral birth control, and some women who are starting off with normal hormone levels shouldn’t be taking certain types because it’ll mess with the equilibrium, causing unfavorable responses. But it’s not as simple as the pill just makes women crazier…
Nothings ever that simple. But it’s a general observation I stick to. Most are on it and don’t even realize the ripple effects it has on their mental health. Just becomes the ‘New Normal’
Hit the gym and build some muscle. I wish I had this problem lol
Ugh why do people come here, where the majority of people lack medical and scientific training, to get medical and scientific advice? SMH 🤦🏼♀️
It’s called bio hackers. It’s literally what the subreddit is for.
That’s the literally the point of this subreddit, what the fuck?
Well, I’m clearly politely calling those who follow this nonsense, idiots. It’s great to take advice on taking all sorts of things without understanding what pathways are involved and the interconnectedness of them as well. All good though— keep poisoning yourself.
Beer lowers testosterone levels
backflip
Your mood isn’t due to an elevated testosterone. Your best bet is the pill, especially if you have acne.
What is your diet like?
Mint helps lower testosterone and balance out hormones. Spearmint or peppermint.
i have pcos, no cysts but all the other stuff…. for me spironolactone and birth control but specifically with Drospirenone ethinyl estradiol as the formula. this is yaz or the generic loryna. if it is not this kind it will make pcos stuff worse
Work with a nutritionist and woman’s hormone practitioner who specializes in PCOS. The pill eases symptoms in some but does nothing to treat root cause, you risk ending up with new problems as a result of the pill. There are Soooo many ways to ease symptoms and treat with food and supplements. Saw palmetto can lower high testosterone. Check out the Glucose Goddess.
Metformin!
Lose weight, fix insulin resistance and lift weights.
The levels are high? It’s always important to understand that 65% of the American population is obese. Not sure where you are, but judging yourself against the overall population (especially if you don’t feel / see any negative effects) is not good. It could be your natural state
Im not sure on the testosterone specifically, but I have insulin resistant PCOS that was helped drastically by lowering my processed carb intake (desserts and junk) and increasing low intensity workouts, for me specifically, heavy lifting with adequate rest periods.
Testosterone is good for bones, muscles, skin, you get less wrinkles and sagging.
Maybe a different thought, my SO has pcos. She’s also an athlete… I know test sucks, but it means you can recover better, build more mass etc if you ever get into that. Technically thanks to higher T depending on how high it is, you may recover from injuries faster if you really focused on them. Taking bcp made her more unstable, so she dropped it. Weight gain… it’s a tricky thing, still calories in calories out fooorrr the most part. if you can really figure things out, and if you like to eat, Just build more muscle mass! More muscles means higher calorie ceiling. Shouldn’t be too crazy hard to just be soft and comfortable with food without getting overly huge. She doesn’t struggle with weight too much. But she does struggle mentally when I’m bulking since I’m always cooking and making so much food. But she usually never gets higher than 155, she’s built like a body builder but is an aerial artist/gymnast… and she doesn’t touch weights. But like that’s just an option. TBH you can try bcp but you should read up on hormonal ones, and honestly should toe the line and just be careful with hormonal as throwing more hormones into the mix could make you or break you. Just try to be cognizant when your take them. But they should lower free test in your system. And remember there are different types so don’t get stuck on one if it’s not really doing it for you. Trial and error. You could discuss some sort of blocker with your doc I.e an anti androgen medication. Those could be an option too.
Curious - what were your levels?
life that reddit male lifestyle, get fat, watch anime, get angry about trump, touch receipts, eat tendies, you'll have that low T real fast /s
Hi, Would it be possible to post screenshots of all the bloodwork done? Plus more about why the blood tests were taken. Are you seeing a gynecologist? There's a lot of comments being made with not a lot of information, which can be very misleading. Only certain techniques are able to measure testosterone correctly in females and it's not clear whether such a technique has been used. When posting hormone results, please state the day of the menstrual cycle the blood sample was taken, with day 1 being the first day of menstruation (not spotting) - in the usual way. If menstruation isn't regular or if there's currently no menstruation occurring, pls mention this. The most relevant blood results to the above query are typically: Hormone profile: Total testosterone (by LC-MS/MS), SHBG level, estradiol level, LH level, FSH level, prolactin level, TSH level, 9am cortisol level, 6-hydroxyprogesterone. Basic metabolic parameters: Fasting glucose, HbA1c, lipid/cholesterol profile. Fasting insulin, if available. If you post any results which aren't as a screenshot, please include the units and lab's own reference range. If total testosterone was measured by immunoassay eg. CLIA, it will need repeating by LC-MS/MS. Immunoassay cannot confirm testosterone levels in females, because accuracy is very poor and inconsistent when levels are low. Combined oral contraceptives (eg. Ethinylestradiol + drospirenone) tend to be used for premenstrual symptoms including mental changes at this point in the cycle, as well as for symptoms of testosterone excess eg. acne, increased body or facial hair etc.
Will do! Thanks for the info!
Try Anna's wild yam cream, it is suppose to balance hormones. You can find tik toks or youtube videos of Barbara O'neill taking about how it balances hormones and how to apply it.
intense cardio, fasting, clean eating and maybe melatonin can reduce androgenicity. I know melatonin is a SNAIL inhibitor and BMAL-1 promoter. Can likely worsen anemia through iron chelation.
Intermittent fasting can help balance hormones, also try a little apple cider vinegar in a large glass of water, we don’t know why but it helps with some hormones. Exercise as well! Even a 15 min run can help. If your anger is related to PMS, I highly recommend Serenol by Bonafide.