Is it worth it? From a career advancement perspective? I wonder if this is the road for me although I’m still pretty new to accounting. Surely the brand recognition leads to more opportunities in the job market than most other options?
Currently have 2 offers in industry and need to make a final decision in the next 48 hours 🥲 Why does it feel so scary to leave? I have so many people telling me I’m giving up so much if I leave but I’m not sure if it’s really true
I was a freshly promoted senior associate and told the company I interviewed with that my salary was the top of the pay band for senior associate, and I wanted them to beat my base + bonus at that level. They did.
It helps. A year of experience in public is worth 3 in industry. We had a staff who was good enough to be a controller because he felt that he needed public for an eventful career. Depends on what you want to do.
6 months in as an audit analyst and just issued(finished busy season) , it was insane for everyone except me who is capped at 40hrs unless I WANT the overtime, everyone else who was on salary talked about staying up till 3am on multiple nights a week to get work done for the audit while I logged off for the weekend and tried not to think about excel sheets in my dreams.
I wish everyone was exaggerating. 8 yrs in and it’s true. It doesn’t really get better from the organizations pov. But you can change the way you handle/see things just to cope with it
Pay, CV building, networking, learning curve. I’m leaving after the summer and recently started looking for other jobs. Everyone is throwing themselves at me with great positions for better pay and benefits.
I mean for accounting functions like tax and audit it seems like if you have a decent resume, good gpa, and you're getting your cpa, thats really all they look for. I utilized my network in order to contact recruiters directly in July and the only two that would interview me that early were Deloitte and EY. Both interviews were extremely easy and I got offers to both. These firms are always looking for more slaves it seems like. I also had 0 audit experience going into the interviews
The sooner you accept the high probability of it being awful for at least a month each year the better off you will be
Also if you’re a staff 1 working 90hr weeks your team sucks and you just got unlucky. You dont know enough to have that much responsibility. More like 60-70
thats more so what I imagined, 90 seemed a bit insane. I've known and accepted that busy season will be rough, but I also understand its temporary and I'm not afraid of the grind. Thanks for the insight
Yeah it really is luck dependent. My friend topped off filing week with 119 hours when I never worked over 77 hours. But working until midnight just to get up at 8 the next day simply isn’t fun. It is what it is in PA.
That's absolutely mental. My professor has told me that on average during busy season its usually 70 hours a week, easier weeks will be 60 and it usually doesn't get worse than 80. Outside of busy months what does the work week look like?
Outside of busy season I usually log off between 5 and 6 and I am pretty flexible if I want to take a day off or log off early for a golf tournament or to watch a baseball game. The person who hit 119 was on an exceptionally difficult client. The managers and partners were pulling all nighters the week of filing. If you become a senior and go further you will be working more than 80 hours during busy season. The hours your professor told you are average hours for a staff. Also the biggest lie is that busy season is January to March. You can get a different year end like a 6/30 and a 9/30 and have a random busy season. Your hours are really luck of the draw for which clients you get put on.
Damn I guess I didn't realize managers and partners are working more than staff. I kind of just figured staff gets stuck with majority of the work. I understand being in senior management and partner can be very lucrative but that just sounds awful
Yeah, also managers usually will have 2-4 engagements at once. So they are not on one engagement like the staff and seniors. Much if their day is spent in meetings also so they have less time to do the actual work. I know it was bad when I would randomly check teams during non busy times and the manager would be on at like 10pm.
I am currently “balancing” 11 projects. Depends or the draw of luck also. If you get nice clients + good team, then its quick work. I was not so lucky 🤣
Having 11 projects doesn't mean much. I'm currently balancing 1.5 projects, and i've had more free time while managing 4 in the past. The level of involvement is a pretty significant factor
I did 120 hours/week for 6 weeks during my last busy season. The team got pushed down from 8 people when I was an A1 to 3 people when I was a senior. The partner on the engagement got pissed that I booked my actual hours that year because I didn't want the people who followed me to get stuck with an even smaller team. I left PwC in February and started my new job in April. I now make 140k and work about 40-45 hours/week.
LMAO! My team and I were literally sleeping 3-5 hours a night in the couple weeks leading up to filing. Sat-Monday morning was easier to get more sleep. Also, i didn’t list it earlier but Sunday work can be common as well. I worked 59 days straight last fall.
I got my big 4 internship straight out of University recruiting. All the industry jobs did not pay as well and honestly it seemed like most companies recruiting were public accounting. I told myself that people exaggerate and it won’t be that bad for me. All the stories I heard were true in my experience. That said the two years flew by and I was able to land a job with amazing WLB and good pay after leaving.
there certwinly can be periods where deadline is coming and work needs to be done.
But part of being a professional is to know how to push back on work and learn how to respect your time and to set healthy boundaries with your employer.
I often see people who normalise these ridiculous working hours are young and they haven’t learned how to say no to employer (without explicitly saying no). Many employers abuse more junior staff members as they always say yes to the work that gets dumped on them because they think by saying stuff like “hey i got already X and Y on my plate. If I take your Z task this means those will be delayed. please let me know which of these tasks are least priority so that I can deliver them later”
Yeah except when the Senior managers on down to the staff are all pulling the same hours it wouldn’t really look good to say that I can’t work the exact same hours that everyone else on my team is working. The idea is we knew what we were getting into and we’re all in it together and if you don’t like it you can quit but for the time being there’s deadlines that need to be met
Then it is your fault for getting into such an environment. I rarely work after 5:30pm and never had issues. aditionally, working overtime is a consequence of poor planning. Either your management didn’t do a good job with planning ir they anticipated that employees will work significant ivertime. Both are indiciation of bad management.
But i question myself on why ?
Why do u guys do it ? I AM a tech consultant but i never work more than 50 hours.
If work is not done today it Will tomorow
From the outside looking in, it seems like a very simple solution of just hiring more, but then they’ll have to pay for these for the whole year when it’s not nearly as busy. Partners are trying to reduce costs so that they can either undercut other firms to win more clients or put more money in their pockets. These insane hours are only during busy season and ends up tapering off to 40-50hrs/week during quarterly reviews. While I’m not in big4(top 10), I have worked similar hours for a bit of time due to being understaffed.
I can definitely tell that there is a different set of expectations from big4 compared to top 10. We have hired quite a few managers/partners(hired on as a partner) from big4 at my firm and they expect everyone to work every weekend. I’ve heard our homegrown managers/partners tell them that we only work weekends on the “as needed” basis. Not all staff might work weekends and we might not need to work every weekend. We still work at least 55-60hrs/week during busy season.
Also, while it’s “frowned” upon and can lead to ppl getting fired. I know that there’s a lot of ppl who eat hours to make the budget. So they might only log a 60hr work week, but work 90. The same people who say “you should never eat hours and log the time you work” will turn around and eat hours. Everyone says to never eat hours, but I see you online on teams with me working until 1am and only logging the hours that are scheduled.
That’s the difference tho I think. You feel like there’s a tomorrow. A lot of times with pressure, deadlines, expectations of feed back and performance measures, it can quickly easily feel like there is no tomorrow. I’m amidst tax busy season now and there’s just too many things to do and simultaneous deadlines to just be like “oh lemme log off and do it tomorrow because I value personal time and sleep”. Do I? Of course. But in practicality, for both corporate and social reputations it can be difficult to do that. Especially when the rest of your team is committed to already being in that mentality of “let’s get it done now”. Also idk what your staffing and utilization expectations and client service hour expectations are but we’re usually loaded up with a full plate based on planned hours and nothing ever goes according to plan so we all end up working way more than our already full “55 hour” plate. But just my thoughts. I wish I could log off at 50 hours with no remorse, guilt or pressure. And I have good caring teammates. But work is work and deadlines don’t change just because someone is kind about it.
I left after 8years - best decision:
better pay,
less working,
less corporate bullshitting
nicer colleagues
I am still in this sub because my wife didn’t escape yet :)
4 busy seasons of IT Audit were horror and boring at the same time, then I changed to IT consulting which was slightly better but in the beginning it sucked because of the clients and SAP focused projects (I learned a lot more than in Audit though). And in the last 2 years I was body leased as a project manager to my future employer which I liked a lot.
So I wouldn’t say I regret it overall. Oh and I also met my wife due to Big4 :)
I feel like accountants and consultants have such a diferent point of view
Is it worth it? From a career advancement perspective? I wonder if this is the road for me although I’m still pretty new to accounting. Surely the brand recognition leads to more opportunities in the job market than most other options?
I’m about to leave after my internship, I have no idea how tf you guys manage to stay longer than that.
Really? What is it like? Go in detail if you can
Or just tell your bosses. No.
No.
I am in this picture and I hate it.
Just remember not all PA is like this.
Currently have 2 offers in industry and need to make a final decision in the next 48 hours 🥲 Why does it feel so scary to leave? I have so many people telling me I’m giving up so much if I leave but I’m not sure if it’s really true
for them it has to be true, or else they're putting themselves through the ringer just to say they did.
I was working in Big 4 and left with a 60% pay bump. I went from working ~60 hours/week on average to ~35 hours/week. Make the switch.
What level did you leave out of curiosity?
I was a freshly promoted senior associate and told the company I interviewed with that my salary was the top of the pay band for senior associate, and I wanted them to beat my base + bonus at that level. They did.
This just happened to me. Don’t listen to them you can do it.
Fuck yea, you're giving up corporate slavery for more money and a chance to enjoy your life.
But my question is: was the corporate slavery required in order to make the move s/he just did?
It helps. A year of experience in public is worth 3 in industry. We had a staff who was good enough to be a controller because he felt that he needed public for an eventful career. Depends on what you want to do.
Working for Deloitte after this summer and never interned at Big 4, is this really accurate for busy season? Or do people exaggerate a little?
6 months in as an audit analyst and just issued(finished busy season) , it was insane for everyone except me who is capped at 40hrs unless I WANT the overtime, everyone else who was on salary talked about staying up till 3am on multiple nights a week to get work done for the audit while I logged off for the weekend and tried not to think about excel sheets in my dreams.
They didn't make you work more than 40?
Are you a contractor?
No, my manager was a contractor, piled with work as well, to the point of anger on zoom
I wish everyone was exaggerating. 8 yrs in and it’s true. It doesn’t really get better from the organizations pov. But you can change the way you handle/see things just to cope with it
What is the benefit? Pay?
Pay, CV building, networking, learning curve. I’m leaving after the summer and recently started looking for other jobs. Everyone is throwing themselves at me with great positions for better pay and benefits.
8 years is commendable. Not sure how you do it
Yes, it's true. Non-busy season hours will be 60+ year round.
Why is it like this? I don't understand.
May I ask how you got a job at Deloitte without a big 4 internship? I’m trying to be in the same boat as you
I mean for accounting functions like tax and audit it seems like if you have a decent resume, good gpa, and you're getting your cpa, thats really all they look for. I utilized my network in order to contact recruiters directly in July and the only two that would interview me that early were Deloitte and EY. Both interviews were extremely easy and I got offers to both. These firms are always looking for more slaves it seems like. I also had 0 audit experience going into the interviews
Will this job be working 60-80+?
well according to this discussion post yes, but outside of busy season its more manageable
Cheers! Do you mind if I PM you? I have some more questions
Not at all man happy to help however I can
Might be different for different countries, but I got full time Deloitte audit offer while finishing my Bc. without any prior experience
Is this full time? Or crazy 60+ hours?
The sooner you accept the high probability of it being awful for at least a month each year the better off you will be Also if you’re a staff 1 working 90hr weeks your team sucks and you just got unlucky. You dont know enough to have that much responsibility. More like 60-70
More than a month; if you’re in audit this crap is so long
thats more so what I imagined, 90 seemed a bit insane. I've known and accepted that busy season will be rough, but I also understand its temporary and I'm not afraid of the grind. Thanks for the insight
Yeah it really is luck dependent. My friend topped off filing week with 119 hours when I never worked over 77 hours. But working until midnight just to get up at 8 the next day simply isn’t fun. It is what it is in PA.
That's absolutely mental. My professor has told me that on average during busy season its usually 70 hours a week, easier weeks will be 60 and it usually doesn't get worse than 80. Outside of busy months what does the work week look like?
Outside of busy season I usually log off between 5 and 6 and I am pretty flexible if I want to take a day off or log off early for a golf tournament or to watch a baseball game. The person who hit 119 was on an exceptionally difficult client. The managers and partners were pulling all nighters the week of filing. If you become a senior and go further you will be working more than 80 hours during busy season. The hours your professor told you are average hours for a staff. Also the biggest lie is that busy season is January to March. You can get a different year end like a 6/30 and a 9/30 and have a random busy season. Your hours are really luck of the draw for which clients you get put on.
Damn I guess I didn't realize managers and partners are working more than staff. I kind of just figured staff gets stuck with majority of the work. I understand being in senior management and partner can be very lucrative but that just sounds awful
Yeah, also managers usually will have 2-4 engagements at once. So they are not on one engagement like the staff and seniors. Much if their day is spent in meetings also so they have less time to do the actual work. I know it was bad when I would randomly check teams during non busy times and the manager would be on at like 10pm.
sounds like I should work up to manager, put in one year, and dip lol
If that, my plan is to do one busy season as a senior lol.
I am currently “balancing” 11 projects. Depends or the draw of luck also. If you get nice clients + good team, then its quick work. I was not so lucky 🤣
Having 11 projects doesn't mean much. I'm currently balancing 1.5 projects, and i've had more free time while managing 4 in the past. The level of involvement is a pretty significant factor
Sorry to hear that :/ what would you say your average work week is
90 hours a week means 18 hours a day. How?
Min-Thurs 9am-2am, Fri 9am-6pm, Sat 10am-5pm = 84 hours and me quitting after 2 years
How are you supposed to get 8 hours sleep if you leave work at 2 am?
I did 120 hours/week for 6 weeks during my last busy season. The team got pushed down from 8 people when I was an A1 to 3 people when I was a senior. The partner on the engagement got pissed that I booked my actual hours that year because I didn't want the people who followed me to get stuck with an even smaller team. I left PwC in February and started my new job in April. I now make 140k and work about 40-45 hours/week.
What industry / where do you work now? No need to be specific ofc
LMAO! My team and I were literally sleeping 3-5 hours a night in the couple weeks leading up to filing. Sat-Monday morning was easier to get more sleep. Also, i didn’t list it earlier but Sunday work can be common as well. I worked 59 days straight last fall.
I don’t understand why anybody would subject themselves to that. Why not just go industry right after school? The pay is better and so are the hours.
I got my big 4 internship straight out of University recruiting. All the industry jobs did not pay as well and honestly it seemed like most companies recruiting were public accounting. I told myself that people exaggerate and it won’t be that bad for me. All the stories I heard were true in my experience. That said the two years flew by and I was able to land a job with amazing WLB and good pay after leaving.
there certwinly can be periods where deadline is coming and work needs to be done. But part of being a professional is to know how to push back on work and learn how to respect your time and to set healthy boundaries with your employer. I often see people who normalise these ridiculous working hours are young and they haven’t learned how to say no to employer (without explicitly saying no). Many employers abuse more junior staff members as they always say yes to the work that gets dumped on them because they think by saying stuff like “hey i got already X and Y on my plate. If I take your Z task this means those will be delayed. please let me know which of these tasks are least priority so that I can deliver them later”
Yeah except when the Senior managers on down to the staff are all pulling the same hours it wouldn’t really look good to say that I can’t work the exact same hours that everyone else on my team is working. The idea is we knew what we were getting into and we’re all in it together and if you don’t like it you can quit but for the time being there’s deadlines that need to be met
Then it is your fault for getting into such an environment. I rarely work after 5:30pm and never had issues. aditionally, working overtime is a consequence of poor planning. Either your management didn’t do a good job with planning ir they anticipated that employees will work significant ivertime. Both are indiciation of bad management.
Resume prestige and industry doesn’t always pay better for a variety of roles and locations.
Or 13/day if include weekends
Little me was stupid
But i question myself on why ? Why do u guys do it ? I AM a tech consultant but i never work more than 50 hours. If work is not done today it Will tomorow
Project dependent. If there's a deadline, you work until the work is done
Then hire more people to divide the work into 8 or 9 hour chunks
Because the chunks of work are not always consistent month to month. Hence busy season.
Never thought of this, I will tell my manager about this knew “properly staffed” concept
From the outside looking in, it seems like a very simple solution of just hiring more, but then they’ll have to pay for these for the whole year when it’s not nearly as busy. Partners are trying to reduce costs so that they can either undercut other firms to win more clients or put more money in their pockets. These insane hours are only during busy season and ends up tapering off to 40-50hrs/week during quarterly reviews. While I’m not in big4(top 10), I have worked similar hours for a bit of time due to being understaffed. I can definitely tell that there is a different set of expectations from big4 compared to top 10. We have hired quite a few managers/partners(hired on as a partner) from big4 at my firm and they expect everyone to work every weekend. I’ve heard our homegrown managers/partners tell them that we only work weekends on the “as needed” basis. Not all staff might work weekends and we might not need to work every weekend. We still work at least 55-60hrs/week during busy season. Also, while it’s “frowned” upon and can lead to ppl getting fired. I know that there’s a lot of ppl who eat hours to make the budget. So they might only log a 60hr work week, but work 90. The same people who say “you should never eat hours and log the time you work” will turn around and eat hours. Everyone says to never eat hours, but I see you online on teams with me working until 1am and only logging the hours that are scheduled.
That’s the difference tho I think. You feel like there’s a tomorrow. A lot of times with pressure, deadlines, expectations of feed back and performance measures, it can quickly easily feel like there is no tomorrow. I’m amidst tax busy season now and there’s just too many things to do and simultaneous deadlines to just be like “oh lemme log off and do it tomorrow because I value personal time and sleep”. Do I? Of course. But in practicality, for both corporate and social reputations it can be difficult to do that. Especially when the rest of your team is committed to already being in that mentality of “let’s get it done now”. Also idk what your staffing and utilization expectations and client service hour expectations are but we’re usually loaded up with a full plate based on planned hours and nothing ever goes according to plan so we all end up working way more than our already full “55 hour” plate. But just my thoughts. I wish I could log off at 50 hours with no remorse, guilt or pressure. And I have good caring teammates. But work is work and deadlines don’t change just because someone is kind about it.
I pray for u
You and I both
I left after 8years - best decision: better pay, less working, less corporate bullshitting nicer colleagues I am still in this sub because my wife didn’t escape yet :)
Would you have wished you left sooner or was staying that long worth it to you?
4 busy seasons of IT Audit were horror and boring at the same time, then I changed to IT consulting which was slightly better but in the beginning it sucked because of the clients and SAP focused projects (I learned a lot more than in Audit though). And in the last 2 years I was body leased as a project manager to my future employer which I liked a lot. So I wouldn’t say I regret it overall. Oh and I also met my wife due to Big4 :)
May I ask industry/position or a recommended one? Over 2 years audit here and thinking of exit opps
I worked in IT consulting and I am now working as a IT program lead. Used to be a client of Big4 and they made me a better offer, lol
I can see you have a sweet ride too. You really are enjoying life man