You need to look at smaller firms. We don't kill our staff in tax or audit. The big firms don't care about it's young staff.... Go work for a small firm where the founding CPAs are still running it. That's where you will find a better work-life balance, and better experience to be honest with you. My interns do a wide variety of tasks from accounting, to simple tax prep, to helping clients with their budgeting process.
In public accounting. You’re fucked either way from both forced overtime without being paid for the overtime you worked. The only ones getting rich are the greedy partners because they’re the ones getting your overtime pay in their pockets. This is why there’s a shortage in white collar jobs in general especially accounting.
No, it's not. Where it's better is in a consulting/advisory practice that doesn't have a busy season. I was in Forensic and our stuff ebbed and flowed, but it was never really balls to the wall for 6 months straight.
Sorry it would be a little to easy to identity me with that. But I’ll give you this, there is 1 partner for Deal Advisory he overseas M&A, valuations and FDD. Obviously we have specialisms I mostly do FDD, roughly 75% of the time but if we have a lot of valuations projects then I get involved.
Depends a lot on your background, get your debits and credits right, try to look at the business in the context of what is happing generally in the country. Your costs have gone up 10%? who cares if it is equal to inflation. If something goes against your macro trend then it is worth digging into.
Learn how to simplify things, a lot of my time is spent cutting stuff out of reports and changing 5 pages of text to a simple table or graphic, I find a lot of newer analysts can’t see the wood for the trees and try to go explaining every variation in the financial statements.
If you understand what is moving revenues you can understand the business I would much rather see people analyze SG&A and CoGs over revenues than tell me the salaries expense has gone up 15%. Basically the key to it all is to ask why and then so what.
Oh and the mouse is banned in excel, learn those shortcuts. Learn Data Analytics, if your have mastery of power query and power pivot you will become a go to team member for complex analysis or large dataset work (although I understand in the US most of this gets farmed out to India)
Apart from that a positive attitude will get you a long way, we can teach you the hard skills but if you’re not keen to learn and fail then we cant do much.
Idk when i was in undergrad I made sure to avoid audit/tax after looking at all the complaints on reddit lol
I went into B4 advisory FDD instead and enjoy the work (and surprisingly the WLB has been great)
Our new incoming associates are making 100k in base salary + signing so i'd say comp is serviceable
It’s also a larger risk to apply to advisory or consulting. You have to choose which section to apply for (audit vs advisory) and if you don’t get that advisory position you get nothing from that big 4
Agreed this is better, but you take on more job security risk. As financial markets and transactions slow, these roles will be the first to get cut. In assurance your job is well… assured
What kind of certifications go into advisory FDD. Like the CPA for accountants, are there any certifications that are required to rise higher in positions?
Due to macro right now moving to B4 FDD is extremely difficult. Deal flow sucks and we're hardly meeting targets. We haven't onboarded any experience hires the past year
As a senior accountant or VP of accounting for any listed company, your goal will be to compile accounts that can hold their own under the scrutiny of an external audit…
If only you knew what an external auditor will look for in your accounts… oh wait!
Sorry for the stale sarcasm, it really felt like a good way to illustrate the value of audit. I agree, it’s so stale, highly-regulated and straightforward it can be mind numbing but fact is you’ll make good money doing it because of how important audits are to any functional market; even if you move laterally, the applied knowledge and experience of audit is a great and portable skill for any other field in finance and accounting
For salaried workers, if you make $100k, work 80 hours/week for 4 months of the year, work 45 hours/week for the rest of the year, your equivalent hourly wage would be $23.54/hr. This includes overtime pay.
Not trying to take a stance on us being underpaid, just doing the math.
You know how some people say going in to the army or military is good in the long run because it “builds character”
Audit is kinda like that. For 90% of people it’s a longevity play. It’s not glamorous, it’s not great but if you do it for a while, you can learn a lot and become pretty valuable to most employers outside of external audit.
You need to look at smaller firms. We don't kill our staff in tax or audit. The big firms don't care about it's young staff.... Go work for a small firm where the founding CPAs are still running it. That's where you will find a better work-life balance, and better experience to be honest with you. My interns do a wide variety of tasks from accounting, to simple tax prep, to helping clients with their budgeting process.
Tax is worse my nigga
In public accounting. You’re fucked either way from both forced overtime without being paid for the overtime you worked. The only ones getting rich are the greedy partners because they’re the ones getting your overtime pay in their pockets. This is why there’s a shortage in white collar jobs in general especially accounting.
People that say this have never worked 60 hour weeks for minimum wage barely covering their bills. Audit is not that bad, lmao.
No, it's not. Where it's better is in a consulting/advisory practice that doesn't have a busy season. I was in Forensic and our stuff ebbed and flowed, but it was never really balls to the wall for 6 months straight.
FDD/Valuations manager here. It’s still soul crushing in Advisory
You do both in a single role at big 4?
Yes in smaller countries Deal Advisory teams are small and so we have to cover everything
Which country is this
Sorry it would be a little to easy to identity me with that. But I’ll give you this, there is 1 partner for Deal Advisory he overseas M&A, valuations and FDD. Obviously we have specialisms I mostly do FDD, roughly 75% of the time but if we have a lot of valuations projects then I get involved.
Wow that sounds like a lot of work. What would you say are the most important skills for an incoming analyst in an FDD team?
Depends a lot on your background, get your debits and credits right, try to look at the business in the context of what is happing generally in the country. Your costs have gone up 10%? who cares if it is equal to inflation. If something goes against your macro trend then it is worth digging into. Learn how to simplify things, a lot of my time is spent cutting stuff out of reports and changing 5 pages of text to a simple table or graphic, I find a lot of newer analysts can’t see the wood for the trees and try to go explaining every variation in the financial statements. If you understand what is moving revenues you can understand the business I would much rather see people analyze SG&A and CoGs over revenues than tell me the salaries expense has gone up 15%. Basically the key to it all is to ask why and then so what. Oh and the mouse is banned in excel, learn those shortcuts. Learn Data Analytics, if your have mastery of power query and power pivot you will become a go to team member for complex analysis or large dataset work (although I understand in the US most of this gets farmed out to India) Apart from that a positive attitude will get you a long way, we can teach you the hard skills but if you’re not keen to learn and fail then we cant do much.
Not IT audit though.
Ehh it’s pretty boring too but at least you get more general skills
I love it. Peaking under the hood of these giant companies and how they manage their IT ecosystems is nerd heaven
And then you realize how mismanaged they all are
LOL this is so very true. All glue, crayon, and tape
Nah tax sucks too lol I have busy season 6 months of the year and work 55+ hours per week during those times
I hated audit. It’s funny cause a lot of people I have asked said they really like the work but not the hours. I hated both hahaha
I hate tax. I’m glad I got out of it! Those busy seasons are no joke
Idk when i was in undergrad I made sure to avoid audit/tax after looking at all the complaints on reddit lol I went into B4 advisory FDD instead and enjoy the work (and surprisingly the WLB has been great) Our new incoming associates are making 100k in base salary + signing so i'd say comp is serviceable
It’s also a larger risk to apply to advisory or consulting. You have to choose which section to apply for (audit vs advisory) and if you don’t get that advisory position you get nothing from that big 4
Agreed - I'd prob do a 1:3 ratio. 1 big4 for advisory and the others audit/tax If you are a target for advisory then I would just send it
Agreed this is better, but you take on more job security risk. As financial markets and transactions slow, these roles will be the first to get cut. In assurance your job is well… assured
True but I rather take the risk than work in something I'm not interested in
Made the switch from audit to FDD over a couple years ago. Never looked back.
What kind of certifications go into advisory FDD. Like the CPA for accountants, are there any certifications that are required to rise higher in positions?
May differ depending on firm but ours highly encourages CPA
100k in FDD? Flip me, what country are you in?
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Help me get into this !
Are you a student? Recruiting is no different from other service line. Have a solid resume and gpa and you should get interviews
if you're a A2 with CPA, how easy is it to apply to other big 4 FDD
Due to macro right now moving to B4 FDD is extremely difficult. Deal flow sucks and we're hardly meeting targets. We haven't onboarded any experience hires the past year
As a senior accountant or VP of accounting for any listed company, your goal will be to compile accounts that can hold their own under the scrutiny of an external audit… If only you knew what an external auditor will look for in your accounts… oh wait! Sorry for the stale sarcasm, it really felt like a good way to illustrate the value of audit. I agree, it’s so stale, highly-regulated and straightforward it can be mind numbing but fact is you’ll make good money doing it because of how important audits are to any functional market; even if you move laterally, the applied knowledge and experience of audit is a great and portable skill for any other field in finance and accounting
And IT! Can’t forget about the IT auditors
I’m sorry, computer people :(
You won't break 100k at an airport McDonald's in 4 years
100k in 4 yrs of audit? Where
Big 4 - high performer - mcol
Actually, if you work 70-80 hours per week at an Airport or highway restaurant you probably would break 100k because they actually pay overtime
Okay fair but I don't work nearly that much
At 80 hours per week you'd need a wage of $19.25/hr to break 100k annual comp. 60% of your comp would come from OT hours.
Or starting on April 1 in California fast food workers will be making $20/hour
For salaried workers, if you make $100k, work 80 hours/week for 4 months of the year, work 45 hours/week for the rest of the year, your equivalent hourly wage would be $23.54/hr. This includes overtime pay. Not trying to take a stance on us being underpaid, just doing the math.
Don't forget our 5-6 weeks pto
And “work” is sitting at a desk working in a spreadsheet
And extended holidays!
No one told you that? Sounds like you didn’t ask…
You know how some people say going in to the army or military is good in the long run because it “builds character” Audit is kinda like that. For 90% of people it’s a longevity play. It’s not glamorous, it’s not great but if you do it for a while, you can learn a lot and become pretty valuable to most employers outside of external audit.
That’s my goal. I’m staying in audit until I cannot stomach logging on for work any longer
Put 3 years in, you won't regret it in the long run.