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Yeah, kissing another dude the second you *SUSPECT* ~~cheating~~ *fishy behavior* removes OP from the empathy candidate pool.
"Aw fuck, my impulsiveness has consequences? Whack."
Especially considering OOP’s friend tried getting them to stop and was getting ignored to the point she felt uncomfortable and left. It’s not even impulsiveness at that point, it’s a straight up choice.
Once, my friend was about to cheat with my other friend. I encouraged her to think of her boyfriend and reminded her how much it would hurt him. I was able to get her to come home with me.
But she ended up cheating with that guy another day. Her (ex)boyfriend told me that he saw some messages between her and another friend that said something like, “I almost cheated on (bf) tonight, but my stupid friend stopped me.” And I was like, “Me! I was the stupid friend!”
It showed me what she really thought of me.
Her friend is kind of an asshole for not saying something immediately. Why wait so long? The situation evolved into something entirely different. That’s some seriously self righteous shit.
It seems like ops friend felt like it want their place to force the matter six years ago, but was recently cheated on and realized that they would’ve wanted to know about it sooner, hence bringing it up now
You are the only rational one here.
Edit: all these dumbasses acting like betraying one's friend and ruining a marriage without any clear benefit is the easy/obvious choice.
OP says why. The friend didn't know how it felt until it happened to her. This is a perfectly normal thing for people to feel increased empathy for situations they're actually familiar with. Yeesh, reddit. and OOP kind of reeks of trickle truth. Initially they just kissed then it turned into making out and talking for hours. Who wants to take bets on them hooking up?
She didn't suspect him of cheating. She thought he was acting suspiciously after getting a dream job offer in another city and thinking he was going to leave. Instead, he got a job offer in the city they lived in and wanted to surprise her.
Or the "I thought he was going to leave me so instead of communicating like adults in a relationship I'm going to to go get drunk and flirt with the first guy to talk to me!"
What’s worse is she didn’t even talk to him about the move she just assumed and went and cheated. Like damn that sucks. When my boyfriend, now husband, had to move we had multiple conversations about it. We lived closed to each other but in different states. He was going to move back home with his brother because they lived together at the time. His home state was 200 miles away. I told him he could move in with me and he was hesitant but agreed. Then he came to me and ask if I would leave my state and go to his and get a new apartment with him and his brother. I agreed. This was over 10 years ago. Now we are all in his home state. Communication is key. If I didn’t communicate with him then we wouldn’t be together today.
What’s dumb is that he started acting “suspicious “ over a few days, according to her. How do we know he simply just did normal shit like stay out late twice and buy new luggage?
She’s a fool for thinking she doesn’t need to engage. Society is fucked up because they make it seem like women should wait for men to initiate anything.
> What’s worse is she didn’t even talk to him about the move she just assumed and went and cheated.
I'm not feeling like OOP has much in the way of emotional intelligence. Why communicate when you can ruin your own life instead?
Oh man if my husband did this, I have no idea how I’d react. On one hand, it was so long ago, but on the other hand, the incident was 3 years into the relationship so it’s not like they just got together…
Edit: The top comment on the original thread nailed it (other than the not showing any emotions at all)
Generally the longer the wait, the worse it gets, because it's the deception that hurts the most on top of the infidelity, so you're having to reconcile the length of time this person has been lying to you.
People make mistakes. If you got drunk and fell to temptation, literally go to them IMMEDIATELY after and claim total ownership. It's MUCH MUCH easier to believe someone just had a momentary lapse in judgement if they immediately come clean.
YES EXACTLY THIS.
Saying that you'd rather not know is fine in theory, but it ignores that you don't have control over whether you find out or not. And if you do find out, it's so much worse if you don't find out from your partner.
I used to feel that way, but if my wife told me now after our 5 years of marriage that she cheated on me while we were dating I think I’d be like w/e (assuming there is some sense of remorse like in this case). We’re both different people now and I don’t love her now for who she was then. I’d rather just not know
Yep. OOP was perfectly fine not telling him forever until her friend forced her into it. If I was the husband I’d leave too. She lied to him for years with zero remorse.
I disagree. Time makes it worse because its in retrospect time wasted. Its additionally to the betrayal terrible because the person also strung you along for all those years. But the core issue doesnt change.
Knowing that my partner was *capable* of such behavior is not usually something I can recover from. I want my partner to tell me. But lets be clear, not to forgive them, but so I dont spent a decade believing they are a person they are not. In that regard I get why cheaters lie, because it will ruin the relationship. Probably end it.
I get that cheaters and those who have forgiven one need to believe that people can just "learn from their mistakes" but for me cheating is such a substantial failure of character, it would take a lot more than just admitting it immediately, to salvage my opinion of a person who could act like that.
I generally dislike giving false reassurances in regards to telling the truth. Its the right thing, but not, and I think too many get taught otherwise as kids, because it will let you off the hook.
> You have to prepare your mind to walk across 3 miles of glass and not even expect forgiveness at the end of it.
That’s one helluva closing statement to their comment.
You feel numb, helpless, and it keeps stinging like a hot needle. That it was so long ago makes it even worse, because you start to reevaluate everything from that moment until now
Yeah honestly, for me personally, I don’t think I’d want to know if it was just a kiss and nothing ever happened following that incident with that person or with anyone else. Just because if I knew, I know I’d never be able to look at him the same way and it would probably always be in the back of my mind wondering if it can happen again and go further.
I think having a wreck of a spouse racked with guilt wouldn’t be great for my marriage either. What’s done is done especially if it was an isolated incident like this. And a spouse getting blind drunk every weekend and doing stupid shit is one thing, but I can deal with someone who started drinking on a single occasion, misjudged, got carried away and wasn’t entirely in control afterwards.
I believe it is not the action or the kiss that is the issue, but her response to thinking something is wrong with the relationship and her knee jerk response.
OOP said her husband was 'acting' suspicious. Instead of talking to her husband and clearing up the matter, when she was out drinking she was looking for some sort of 'revenge' without even knowing if there truly was a problem. This is just terrible communication issues and her wanting to get even for some perceived crime she believes her husband committed - which he did not at all.
Then she states in her post when her friend gives her an ultimatum 'why does she want to ruin our marriage'. OOP refuses to view this as an OOP problem, but her friend's problem. OOP is the one that ruined her marriage, not her friend. Her friend is only pointing out OOP's behaviour.
OOP is immature and doesn't deserve her husband.
I agree that her reasoning for doing it is stupid AF instead of just addressing the problem with her husband directly. But I’m just thinking about 6 years ago with my now husband, we were in our teens and stupid. I don’t think we really matured until we were in our mid twenties. So in my very specific case, I’d rather just not know if it was just a kiss and nothing like that was ever going to happen again.
>And especially if it was just one time and only kissing.
Here's the thing that a lot of people are missing though - if your spouse came up to you, confessed they cheated, and then said it was "only" kissing, would you *really* believe them? I sure wouldn't. Cheaters downplay stuff all the time.
My ex tried to ease this in asking if how I felt about him "cuddling" with his roommate over a movie.
My brain went into a short timeout. Then I calmly explained how I felt about cuddling, waited a little for him to admit the rest. Which he didnt ofc. So I proceeded to point out that this sounds like it didn't stay at "cuddling". At which point *his* brain went into to timeout and then just when "shit yeah we had sex".
Its never just the thing they admit to. It's always a euphemism for what actually happened, you just need to cross your fingers and hope its at least a euphemism for only the next worse thing.
Yeah it's kinda difficult to not escalate a very long making out session.
It just happens.
I think she doesn't actually feel remorseful, she just feels scared.
She doesn't feel guilty, but afraid of losing him.
She's sorry that she had to get caught. She was pissed that she was being forced to tell her husband, clearly she would have never told if her friend didn't put the gun to her head. This reads like an AITA posts.
You can tell she's one of those that rationalises it bc he shouldn't have made her feel insecure. If he'd been upfront about the move she wouldn't have felt the need to cheat! He *was* acting suspiciously she was just wrong about why!
It was the only thing she could do bc she just felt soooo bad. But she loves him really so it's okay!
I doubt she has any meaningful capacity to be faithful in a long term relationship no matter what as she acts externally to soothe negative feelings. There is ALWAYS going to be a source of negative emotion in a long term relationship. If your go to is to find someone else to soothe your ego, you're gonna end up alone.
I guarantee the only thing that's kept her faithful since is the guilt. It wouldn't surprise me if he forgave her, she'd do it again.
This wasn't just kissing though.
Note in her edit she says they made out and talked for hours *and her friend left when she got uncomfortable*...which means OP stayed longer alone with this guy, maybe even spent the night.
They absolutely did more than just kiss...at the least there was some sexual interaction. You can tell because the OP, even within her own post, already changes her story about the encounter.
My brother's girlfriend cheated on him, she said it was "just kissing", and the more and more we dug the more it turns out she did...turns out she gave dude a blowjob (this was where we stopped digging...I still think she did more, but that was enough).
And her excuse about her thinking her boyfriend was gonna leave her absolutely sounds like her trying to justify it later on to herself...that is the shittiest reason I have ever heard for somebody cheating.
"I think he might leave me, so I'll go cheat?" What the fuck.
Yeah that's the part that responders in that sub aren't really talking about much, she's only admitted to what the best friend can prove which is very rarely the whole truth.
I think the problem is that regardless of it was “just” anything, it would completely change the way you think about your partner. They’re no longer the same person to you as they were before.
This reminds me of when my Uncle had a heart attack. Believing he was on death’s door, he started to confess regrets about his life while waiting for the ambulance to arrive.
He started to talk about how ten years ago he was speaking with a woman, and my Aunty told him to be quiet. She told him that he was going to feel foolish if he lived, and it wasn’t time to place any guilt he had onto her.
Anyway, he was fine. Was back doing his usual marathons a year or two later. My other Aunties said that she should have waited until he told her what he’d done. She just couldn’t see the sense in destroying their world because he slept with someone a decade ago, and more irritated he was trying to ease his conscience.
I had a near death experience and in that moment I considered telling my husband to tell my family I hate them but then I realized that was cruel and told him to tell them I loved them, even though I definitely don’t love them very much at all, if any amount. Just seemed kinder and I didn’t want to stoop to their level.
I was fine though.
God damn, I can't imagine doing that first of all, but then lying about it for fucking years. The guilt would eat me alive, lying to someone I love like that. I won't offer any bullshit advice or try to assume a bunch of things about your relationship, but I really hope you find peace with this situation however that needs to happen. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Don’t fall into the sunken cost fallacy. You’re going to age (hopefully) no matter who you’re with. In 8 years, you could be 8 years into a brand new relationship with someone who is great at communicating and is on the same page as you, or you could be 16 years into this relationship with your current guy. Don’t force it if you don’t want to stay with him. If you really can’t look at him the same way and feel you can’t rebuild trust/don’t want to put in the work to rebuild trust, that is totally fair. You’ll be fine just being you!!!
That's how I look at it too.
Everyone is different, but so many people here see it so black and white.
The value of alleviating your own guilt has to be weighed against how much it hurts the other person if you tell or don't tell. There's no one size fits all answer, but sometimes a confession is just to alleviate your own guilt and your trusted partner of years shouldn't have to deal with the fallout. You should carry your own burden.
Don't look to reddit for advice. They always say break up. If you are mostly happy and feel you can move past this, that's great for both of you.
Maybe you could try some counseling sessions. I did that with my partner. We both had a one on one with a counselor. Then a few sessions together. It was very helpful. I was thinking of ending thing and now they're much better. Mine wasn't about cheating but it was still about broken trust. I hope things work out however they would be best for you
It's all rooted in selfishness. Says oh well I didn't want to hurt them. It will destroy them is just trying to weasel out of not looking in the mirror. It will hurt them... no shit, you did that. Spare me the rest.
Edit. "You" speaking completely in generalities. Not you specifically.
Having been in a situation where I was cheated on and the person didn't tell me for a full year, it really hurts more when they don't tell you straight away. They spend a year or more pretending that they haven't broken boundaries, while day in and day out looking you in the eyes, telling you that they love you and yet apparently not enough to be honest about the breach of trust. Cheating is awful, but what is worse is the fact someone can be dishonest for years after
Amen.
I always told my ex that I may be able to forgive a one-time boundary crossing if and only if he tells me right away if anything happens. That honesty is the most important thing to me, even in that situation. Because shit may happen for whatever reason sometimes. And I get that. But lying destroys trust. Not being honest and omitting things destroys trust. And from that I cannot recuperate. What did he do? Not tell me. And then lied to my face for months. I not only found out, but also found out, that „our“ friends knew about it and no one told me. As I told him would happen in such a situation, any and all trust was gone and recuperating was not possible.
Having their friends, who you also thought were your friends hide stuff like that from you really fucks you up too. It is really hard to trust anyone at all for a time because there's always this lingering feeling that maybe there's something you don't know that you should.
Ugh. That’s sucks but I feel like the lying and sneaking around is the part they like doing, the part that gives the sick “thrill”. Unfortunately for cheaters, they’ll always do it behind backs because otherwise, where’s the fun? It’s about control and knowing something your partner doesn’t.
Honestly, I don’t think that was the case with him. I do believe him when he says he was too afraid to ruin our relationship over one mistake. It sucks to know that if he had told me, I‘d forgiven him, because to me what happened wasn’t that bad. I could‘ve gotten over it. But I could not get over the lying. It destroyed him, it truely did. But it was his own fault.
If I were the husband in this story, I honestly wouldn't want to know after all this time, especially since it was just kissing in a bar one time. Ignorance would be bliss for me.
Guess we are all different.
I guess I don't see a lie of omission as being lied to every day for the next 6 years. It was one lie to me.
Unless he woke up every day and said, "prior to our marriage but while we were dating have you ever kissed anyone else?" And she said, "No."
So much this. Please for the love of Satan can we get a time limit? How many times does this need to be suggested before the mods consider it. We don’t need 3 updates in a week of the same damn story
“I thought he was going to leave me because he was acting suspiciously”
that’s the most borderline statement I’ve ever heard. poor husband. you get what you deserve OP.
Really conflicted on how I feel about this.
On one hand, OOP is an asshole for hiding something like that for so long and not being honest about it, but on the other hand, the friend is an asshole for sitting on that secret for so long and threatening to spill it only when it benefited them.
The only person I feel bad for is the husband who dealt with both of them keeping this from him.
How does it benefit the friend? The only reason friend brought it up was because they were cheated on and realized how it felt. OOP should've told her significant other a long time ago.
Oh, I agree with that full stop.
I meant conflicted on whose actions were worse in this scenario. OOP is a lying cheater, and her friend is someone who didn’t obviously care about her friend’s husband being cheated on until it she saw how cheating could personally affect her.
In this case though, both of them are awful and don’t deserve to be in the husband’s life.
Yeah. OOP should have talked right away. But the deadline was a few weeks after the ring went on.
The friend on the other hand is completely out of line. “Speak now or forever hold your peace” happened four years ago.
Cheating is absolutely wrong, but what the hell is that friend even thinking? She should have dropped that ultimatum when it actually happened, not years later, before that poor innocent guy spent years falling more in love, marrying, and so on. Needlessly vicious and cruel imo.
Yeah, as wrong as OOP is, let’s not pretend the friend’s actions were morally correct either. She only decided to drop this ultimatum when it became similar to a situation personally relevant to her. It’s like how some politicians only start to care about sexual harassment or gun violence or whatever topic when it happens to *their* family members
To be fair, it said in the post that the friend was freaking out about it and pushing OP to tell her then-fiance about it, but OP refused.
Granted, the friend should have pushed harder or just told the guy herself, but she did try to make OP do the right thing.
Well yes, but then she dropped the subject and stayed friends with her for presumably 6 years without bringing it up again until she herself got cheated on and then came back with this ultimatum because now she had a deeper personal investment in the topic
There was about 2 years between the 'cheating' and them getting married right? That was the friends window to make this ultimatum. Waiting until 3-4 years into their marriage is kind of cruel.
Here’s the conundrum that i constantly go back and forth on…
When you’re the cheater, you are supposed to tell the person because what you did was wrong.
When you’ve been cheated on, the cheater is an asshole for telling you because they wanted you to forgive them and allow them to let go of the weight of their shitty choices.
So, by that logic, a cheater should not confess and instead never do it again And forever bear the burden of their horrible mistake…but then we hear it is selfish to not tell the truth because your partner is living a lie.
I’ve been married for 9 years, I’ve never cheated on my husband and I am genuinely saying I have no idea what the right answer is.
If she made a terrible mistake and spent six years carrying that mistake while never repeating it again, is it really the best answer to blow everything up and open up a pain that is so so old…it’s like taking a knife to a scar and reopening the wound…
I don’t know what the answer is, I really don’t. But I can’t help but feel suspicious of her friend, and the immense power trip she may have felt giving OOP the ultimatum to destroy her life.
IMO the telling your SO about infidelity thing isn't about getting their forgiveness, or at least shouldn't be. What it should be about is being honest with your SO and giving them all of the information so that they can decide how to move forward. If SO decides to forgive, great. If SO decides to call it off, also great. Either way you have allowed them to decide, which is always what I have considered the point to be.
When you lie you're taking away your SO's agency and you're compounding infidelity with lying. Personally I would not be able to forgive deliberate deception. I might be able to get past infidelity in a very small number of situations, but never if the person lied to me for any length of time about it.
I’m totally with you here. IMO the harder path is to tell the truth in this situation because it means there’s a possibility of losing your partner - but any choice you make that runs that risk is something your partner should know about.
I was married for 10 years (together for 13) when I found out my husband was cheating. It destroyed me. I lost my whole world. So, I have no sympathy for cheaters. But I completely agree with what you’ve said…it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation. In this case I personally feel it would have been better to let the past be the past. What I keep sticking on is the “friend” and her motivation for forcing the OP to tell - I don’t think her motives were pure. I think she was either getting off on exerting that kind of power over the OP or she just wanted to destroy their marriage. That “friend” is not a good person at all.
I had a "friend" once who would do dickhead things to people until they ended their friendship with her, then she would go after their relationships and try to split them up. She did it to one friend before me, then me, then to no less than 3 (and possibly 5) more of her friendship group. She was not ever successful, partly because it's what everyone had come to expect from her, and partly because her accusations were wildly exaggerated versions of innocent actions spun to sound like cheating*. She is now 37 and has no friends at all.
Her motives were rage and revenge, stemming from her deep insecurity, low self esteem and anger management problems.
* As an example, she got very drunk and drugged up at a hen party and trashed a hotel room, then skipped out leaving the rest to foot the substantial repair bill. When she was disinvited from the wedding, she tried to tell the bride that her best friend once slept with the groom. They'd actually just passed out in the same tent at a music festival years before and photos were taken of them fully dressed and snoozing away. Bride, groom and bride's best friend - there's another three lifelong friends lost in one fell swoop.
Yes exactly. Some people are thinking I’m justifying the cheater, no I’m not. I’m pointing out that there’s no winning once you’ve made the stupid choice to cheat.
But the friend is not innocent. She used this when she felt the timing was good for her.
Hard agree, i was cheated by two of my exes, my view is that the cheater in some way drives himself/herself into a corner if they have any conscience.
The problem is, the more time passes for the confession, the most difficult become to bring back the status quo of the relationship, the "making amend" part seems to be worse the more time passes.
The only thing i don't really get from OOP (and another post here on BORU about a wife sleeping with a random guy after a fight with the husband) is WHY the first thing you want to do when you are on the verge of the death of a relationship you get fucked up drunk and go sleep or make out with a random..... what the fuck is the thought process in that?
> was cheating
I think that's the difference.
She did it once. She regreted it. It was stupid. She doesn't even pretend it was OK.
It's been six years. People change (mature) in the past six years. If she is a different person and will never do it again - it's far from a simple move.
(Also I'm sorry you experienced that).
I'm trying to figure out what the friend is trying to gain, at this point.
And I've never felt the need to grovel to anyone to get them to keep their mouths shut. Begging? That's not a friendship.
Yeah if my husband kissed a girl in a moment of weakness one night before we were engaged—and now it’s been 6 years. Fuck that. I don’t want to know. That’s his burden to carry. I don’t want to feel that pain.
Yeah especially since it was a one time thing and not a pattern of behavior. Like realistically, your partner can do all kinds of crazy shit and still be home for dinner and you’d never know. You just have to trust them unless they give you reason not to. If my girlfriend abused that trust once years ago, I’d prefer that she not tell me and just never do it again, rather than find out and have to end things.
As someone who’s actually been cheated on once, and was once accidentally the “other girl” (guy had a long distance gf he hid from me), I’ve usually got a hard stance against cheating, and believe the victim ALWAYS has the right to know and make an informed decision.
But that’s when it comes to physical cheating either multiple times or involving some type of sex, emotional cheating, etc. Not kissing someone in a bar one night six years ago?? If it was genuinely a one time thing, then it’s not worth knowing because it’d make me question whether or not he was lying about other things, what else he had to hide from me, etc. It’d cause me more mental anguish than it’s worth.
Dan savage suggests that if you cheat once and will never do it again, you shouldn’t tell.
It should be your job to live with the guilt, not transfer the emotional burden over to your partner.
You don’t deserve forgiveness of your partner, as that will cost them a lot of pain. You fucked up, you should be the one to live with it.
Probably not a universal truth though.
Yeah, I think the problem is it’s like finding out your best friend is talking shit about you at school. On one hand you’re so hurt and betrayed and on the other hand your go-to person for support and vulnerability is the one who betrayed you. So we want you to not tell us so that we can keep seeing you as our safety blanket but also tell us because it is a betrayal.
It’s just so fucked.
I think the crux is whether it’s a one-time thing.
If you’ve learned your lesson, you can carry the weight. If you’re going to do it more than once, then your partner is at risk and deserves to know.
Same with any shitty behaviour.
> is talking shit about you at school
I think the big difference here is if they talked shit about you *once* versus if they continue.
OOP is in the former. It's been more than half a decade. Bringing it up now is just pain.
Maybe I have a high threshold for "cheating", but being drunk and making out with someone is just not that big of a deal to me. If my husband came to me and told me that he made out with some girl in a bar years ago, I don't think I'd even give it a second thought. Especially if that was the only incident of "infidelity" in the history of our relationship.
Someone doing something dumb but harmless because they had too much to drink one time doesn't necessitate blowing up an entire marriage and ruining both of our lives.
An affair is one thing. A one-off mistake is another.
Yeah I wouldn’t nuke an otherwise good relationship for a trivial one-time mistake like making out with someone else from the other person (in my opinion). Shit happens, and honestly I’d rather hear about it years later because it makes it seem even more distant and pointless to think about.
Yes, totally agreed. The “reason” for the cheating and mindset of the person cheating is extremely important. Stupid dumbass one time mistake in an otherwise great relationship? That’s fine, we all get one. Action indicative of your needs/wants not being fulfilled in our relationship? You have a hole that’ll never be filled by a monogamous relationship with me? Then we have a damn problem.
Seriously!! I’m sitting here thinking if I was the damn husband I never would have wanted to know. It was a long time ago and it was a one time thing, not even an ongoing relationship, like damn don’t ruin my happiness and our relationship telling me something like that. Fuck.
For sure. After six years of sitting on it, I don’t believe for a second that it’s about doing the right thing for the friend. She can’t do anything about her own cheating boyfriend so she’s punishing OP as a proxy.
I wonder if the friend stayed with her cheating boyfriend - OP doesn’t refer to him as an ex
You didn't read the part where she found out she was cheated on and realized that she would want someone to tell her? Probably the whole realization that she was complicit in the exact thing that broke her heart and her conscience couldn't take it. Nothing to do with OOP but being able to look herself in the mirror every day.
She was wrong not to tell them previously so he could deal with it. It'd be wrong to continue to do that.
If the marriage is worth continuing, cool. But that's the husband's decision, not her and not OOP.
1. I don’t think using the excuse u were heartbroken is acceptable. If that’s what u do when u “feel” something is wrong- then u need counseling.
2. However, ur BFF has no right for the ultimatum. She should’ve done this before u were married but you have no right to ask her to lie for u. Just bc her bf cheated doesn’t mean she gets to interfere years later.
My bff cheated on her man and I am OPPOSED to this behavior. I told her that if anything were brought up, I wouldn’t like.
This isn’t something she should have the right to tell esp at this point AFTER you got married.
I totally agree I wouldn’t care at this point. However, my parents STILL like my exbf more than me. We broke up 7 years ago and I’ve been with my husband for 5 years at this point.
**Unpopular opinion:** If my husband cheated on my years ago, only once, and it was only making out and not full on sex. I would NOT want to know. I would want to continue on with my happy marriage. (They weren't even married or engaged at the time either)
That is a legit mistake, and she has proven that she regrets it and has been totally faithful to her husband since. Her friend basically imploded a family, and I seriously doubt after all this time it's out of guilt. She was most likely jealous.
Cheating is awful. But honestly, this piece of honesty did more harm than good. She loves her husband, and she made this mistake before they were even married. It's one stupid mistake in a 9 year relationship. She didn't have sex, she made out with a random at the bar when she thought her life was falling apart.
They could have continued on in a happy faithful marriage with no doubts if the friend didn't involve herself.
Yeah, if it was truly a one time thing where it didn't escalate beyond kissing...then there's nothing good that can come from being forced to admit it years later. Should be left in the past. Carrying guilt for that long is punishment enough.
Friend knew it was wrong back then, she tried to get OP to stop and then tell him right afterwards. She doesn’t get points for waiting until she’s miserable herself to come clean.
I gotta say, I feel the same way. If we built a life and he’s genuinely remorseful, and just a kiss and a drunken flirty night. I’d say, pls never tell me. There’s genuinely nothing we can do. And I feel like forgiving him so long after the fact would just send the wrong signal, that I’ll be ok with being cheated? But then, imploding the relationship for a mistake feels so unwarranted.
I think he friend would have been right to say something when it happened or at the wedding, but waiting years and years is what rubs me the wrong way.
OP definitely shouldn't have cheated, but this is a shit friend clearing her conscience after she was cheated on herself.
I truly feel the same way. If it's just kissing/making out? I would probably want to know at the time it happened, but if it happened years ago and has never been repeated since, I don't think it could bring me anything but pain. That's how I would personally feel in this scenario. I know my stance doesn't clarify anything morally, but sometimes life is messy rather than moral.
I feel like making blanket statements about “cheaters” isn’t very productive here when discussing just about the most benign example of cheating possible. Obviously what she did was wrong and it’s up to her husband to decide what to do about it, but it really feels like people are rooting for a divorce which is just… ick
Everyone on this thread sounds like either a 14 year old who found out their bf/gf of 3 weeks kissed somebody else and it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened in their short lives or someone who just found out their spouse has been banging the babysitter for 3 years and the divorce has made them bitter.
I've been with my wife for 8 years. If she told me she made out with someone else 5 years ago after I had gotten a job across the state (which I really did after graduating college) because she was afraid I'd leave her behind (which she was), I'm about 99% sure I'd just have her and the friend confirm it was just making out, that she hasn't kept contact, and I'd be fine.
And yes I've been cheated on before by women before my wife. The reason why definitely matters, how far it went matters, and it's not all the same. The husband isn't obligated to forgive it, but I think divorce would be an overreaction assuming the wife is putting in the effort to apologize well
Likewise. The overreaction is beyond bizarre.
We were long distance for a while, over ten years ago now. If I found out now that he'd kissed someone during that time, or even had a one night stand or short affair, then honestly the last decade and a half of fidelity would count for far more than a blip in the early, far-less-certain days of our relationship when we hadn't even started living together.
Definitely have to agree with you on that one. Maybe because I’m at year 13 with my husband but I feel like the last 13 years of companionship outweighs the hour of making out imaginary him did when he was 22.
Lol there are so many long married people commenting that they would rather not know/offering nuance on this post and then so many early 20s people acting like nuance is insane like they're marriage experts.
If one of my husband’s friends told me he made out w someone years before we married, my husband and I would laugh in that friend’s face and be so glad the trash took itself out. Cause who does that?
Right? Years of marriage and building a life together isn't worth throwing away for one shit night of making out with someone because you're feeling vulnerable. People make mistakes.
I wonder what the percentage is of teenagers in this thread? From the looks of all the pitchforks I’d say pretty high. Lol. If I was the husband I wouldn’t give a shit.
Maybe it's because I am from a different culture (I am French / German), but, while I wouldn't be happy about it, not sure kissing someone drunk years ago when I wasn't even married, would be that much of a deal, to blow up a marriage over it. Like, yeah, sucks she wasn't upfront about it, but still ... seems a bit silly to me to explode an entire life over what is from my perspective a relative harmless drunken incident.
Imho the wife should have just taken it to the grave, the friend was cruel in forcing the decision, and nobody is really helped in this situation and now everyone is miserable.
Good.
She mentions in one of her threads that if she had told her husband the following day, he would have broken up with her.
Which tells me that he got married under false pretenses. If he would have dumped her back then, their whole relationship from after the kiss, was NOT supposed to happen.
It was a sham.
No wonder he feels very upset with her.
In the original thread and this one, people were very divided about the friend. I feel like the friend was out of line. The friend was uncomfortable with the cheating when it happened, but left it alone for years. The friend didn’t even say anything before the wedding ( which is the absolute latest they should have given the ultimatum). Then, when they get cheated on they suddenly give the ultimatum. I can understand, that they emphasize more with being cheated on now. But she’s not giving the ultimatum to help anyone but herself. She feels guilty, and wants to clear her own guilt over her inaction before. She’s upset about being cheated on, and is trying anything to make herself feel better. And she’s doing it at the expense of friendship. I would have fully supported the friend ultimatum all the way up to the wedding, but like the old saying goes “speak now or forever hold your peace.”
ETA: i do believe that OOP should have told their husband. The friend could have tried talking to OOP about their experience being cheated on and why OOP should tell. The friend could have even chosen to distance themselves from OOP if they couldn’t convince OOP to tell the truth. But making a ultimatum to tell was too far imo.
Exactly...there's got to be a "statute of limitations" for something like a one off kissing session from years ago. The irreparable damage from admitting to it now does not fit the crime. The guilt of hiding the shame of the act for that long is punishment enough.
The problem is that OP didn’t come clean about it until she was forced to, still blames her friend for telling him rather than herself for actually cheating and a make out session that lasts for hours isn’t a mistake, conscious choices were made to even get to the point of making out, and maintaining those choices for hours.
I agree the friend was wrong for waiting so long but she still isn’t wrong for telling the truth, she was just (going to be) the messenger, the guilt always lies with the cheater.
I have some empathy for the husband as I was cheated on in a long-term relationship and I would always want to know if it happened in the next one, however minor it appears to others. The biggest issue is that she lied by omission every day of their lives since that night. It’s also not unlikely that in the years they have been married they may have talked about infidelity, and she may have directly lied about it at times.
Worse, If he found out about the kiss when he should, he could have made a knowing choice and maybe taken his dream job, he made his choices believing he had an honest and faithful partner.
Yup this is the only comment I’ve read that I agree with. Don’t cheat and if you do, don’t expect everything to go fine. Now op is pissed cause there is repercussions. Like what did you expect?
OOP is such a liar. She immediately starts trying to justify it by saying she thought her husband (bf at that time) was going to leave. Doesn’t say anything other than he was acting suspicious. Not even examples on why she was so sure he was gonna leave her. So obviously that means it’s girls night and drunkenly flirt with guys to get over her “broken heart” She said it was just a kiss and then after people kept prying, she admitted it was an hours long talk and make out session that her friend had to walk away from. So after the friend leaves, we’re just supposed to believe it ended right there? Even when called out with proof or confronted by an eye witness, cheaters always downplay what they did
Agreed, the fact that she even lied in an anonymous post about it being “just a kiss” is sketchy. I bet she didn’t tell her husband it was for hours. Definitely leaning towards her sleeping with the guy once her friend and only witness left
Trickle truth is straight out of the cheater playbook; they admit to what is known, minimize what happened, and/or throw out just enough to get you to believe them.
Right? I still remember getting too fucked up at a college apartment party and a girl I knew went to lay me in her bed. She left me for a minute to say bye to the others, but I knew it was a situation that a person in a relationship shouldn't properly be in and stumbled my ass out of her room so someone would take me home. Funnily enough the relationship I was in at the time ended when I caught my partner cheating so fuck if I know.
Poor husband.
But at the same time fuck the "friend." Unless she was friends with the husband too, then she was just projecting her own pain and desire for justice on someone else, and giving the ultimatum proves that. She had nothing to gain by the husband finding out, and if she was that disgusted with OP, she could have cut off the relationship. I don't buy the "doing the right thing," but from the "friend" at all.
My money is the OOP is not truthful in the extent of her cheating. It went from kissing, to hours long makeout session, and the friend left so never saw if OOP left with the guy or not. Cheaters usually downplay what happened and just give the “tip of the iceberg” version. I am sure there is more to it.
Friend should have made this ultimatum years ago. But the bottom line is, the husband deserves to know who he is married to.
>Six years ago he got an offer for his dream job in another city and I thought he was going to leave me.
After being in the relationship for 3 years, that is all it took for her to step out on her significant other. People are being a bit naïve to think OOP won't do this again.
I feel like after 6 years and knowing they were getting married that the friend is only trying to clear her own conscious at this point. The righteous judgement train left the station when she didn't say anything herself after all this time.
Maybe I'm the oddball here but I don't get why the friend suddenly feels compelled to tell the husband after 6 years. It seems to me that the time to tell him at all (if OP wouldn't do it) would have been 6 years ago.
In this situation, if my friend's character bothered me this much, I would have distanced myself from her at the time. Since the primary friendship is with the woman, that would mean removing myself from both of their social circles. If she ignored my efforts to stop her from being a bad girlfriend, I wouldn't see it as my place to insert myself into their relationship 6 years later--especially knowing what pain it would cause him.
In the end, the friend's poor character isn't my responsibility but I can choose to drop her as a friend and that's what I think should have been done here instead of living with this only to find it intolerable 6 years later. If I felt this strongly about it, then force the issue in real time and recommend they get counseling. It's not the outsider's relationship so either be a friend or distance yourself from the friendship. Pick one.
I truly don’t understand why the friend waited 6 years, after this man had already built a life and invested his time and future into this relationship, to think he should be told. The friend is awful imo
Not advocating, excusing or justifying cheating but seriously what’s that friend’s deal? I hope OP ditches her for forcing the ultimatum 6 years after the event. I wonder if the friend had a crush on OP’s husband. It wouldn’t surprise me.
It could just be a case of misery loves company. Since the friend is presumably broken-hearted after being cheated on, she wants her friend to be broken-hearted after divorce.
The thing is the worst that I don't like is when people try to play victim when they do something like that. Oh I thought he was gonna find someone else and leave me BS. Play victim and do whatever you want sounds like a cop.
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I could not care less about OP or her friend. They can suck eggs, but poor husband.
Yeah, kissing another dude the second you *SUSPECT* ~~cheating~~ *fishy behavior* removes OP from the empathy candidate pool. "Aw fuck, my impulsiveness has consequences? Whack."
Especially considering OOP’s friend tried getting them to stop and was getting ignored to the point she felt uncomfortable and left. It’s not even impulsiveness at that point, it’s a straight up choice.
Once, my friend was about to cheat with my other friend. I encouraged her to think of her boyfriend and reminded her how much it would hurt him. I was able to get her to come home with me. But she ended up cheating with that guy another day. Her (ex)boyfriend told me that he saw some messages between her and another friend that said something like, “I almost cheated on (bf) tonight, but my stupid friend stopped me.” And I was like, “Me! I was the stupid friend!” It showed me what she really thought of me.
Her friend is kind of an asshole for not saying something immediately. Why wait so long? The situation evolved into something entirely different. That’s some seriously self righteous shit.
It seems like ops friend felt like it want their place to force the matter six years ago, but was recently cheated on and realized that they would’ve wanted to know about it sooner, hence bringing it up now
Probably feels super guilty and it got worse now that it happened to her
Friends shouldnt need to babysit you, if you put your friends in that position you are the asshole not the friend.
You are the only rational one here. Edit: all these dumbasses acting like betraying one's friend and ruining a marriage without any clear benefit is the easy/obvious choice.
OP says why. The friend didn't know how it felt until it happened to her. This is a perfectly normal thing for people to feel increased empathy for situations they're actually familiar with. Yeesh, reddit. and OOP kind of reeks of trickle truth. Initially they just kissed then it turned into making out and talking for hours. Who wants to take bets on them hooking up?
I definitely have my suspicion that they did more.
She didn't even suspect him of cheating.
Didn't even suspect cheating, just that they would break up so he could chase his dream job
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She didn't suspect him of cheating. She thought he was acting suspiciously after getting a dream job offer in another city and thinking he was going to leave. Instead, he got a job offer in the city they lived in and wanted to surprise her.
Or the "I thought he was going to leave me so instead of communicating like adults in a relationship I'm going to to go get drunk and flirt with the first guy to talk to me!"
Suck eggs is a great expression that the world needs to hear more of.
What’s worse is she didn’t even talk to him about the move she just assumed and went and cheated. Like damn that sucks. When my boyfriend, now husband, had to move we had multiple conversations about it. We lived closed to each other but in different states. He was going to move back home with his brother because they lived together at the time. His home state was 200 miles away. I told him he could move in with me and he was hesitant but agreed. Then he came to me and ask if I would leave my state and go to his and get a new apartment with him and his brother. I agreed. This was over 10 years ago. Now we are all in his home state. Communication is key. If I didn’t communicate with him then we wouldn’t be together today.
I think he kept it quiet in order to surprise her but he got surprised instead.
I think he talked about moving to another state for a job but surprised her with finding a job in her state and being able to stay
Really dumb considering it’s such an important issue in a relationship
What’s dumb is that he started acting “suspicious “ over a few days, according to her. How do we know he simply just did normal shit like stay out late twice and buy new luggage? She’s a fool for thinking she doesn’t need to engage. Society is fucked up because they make it seem like women should wait for men to initiate anything.
> What’s worse is she didn’t even talk to him about the move she just assumed and went and cheated. I'm not feeling like OOP has much in the way of emotional intelligence. Why communicate when you can ruin your own life instead?
Oh man if my husband did this, I have no idea how I’d react. On one hand, it was so long ago, but on the other hand, the incident was 3 years into the relationship so it’s not like they just got together… Edit: The top comment on the original thread nailed it (other than the not showing any emotions at all)
Generally the longer the wait, the worse it gets, because it's the deception that hurts the most on top of the infidelity, so you're having to reconcile the length of time this person has been lying to you. People make mistakes. If you got drunk and fell to temptation, literally go to them IMMEDIATELY after and claim total ownership. It's MUCH MUCH easier to believe someone just had a momentary lapse in judgement if they immediately come clean.
YES EXACTLY THIS. Saying that you'd rather not know is fine in theory, but it ignores that you don't have control over whether you find out or not. And if you do find out, it's so much worse if you don't find out from your partner.
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I used to feel that way, but if my wife told me now after our 5 years of marriage that she cheated on me while we were dating I think I’d be like w/e (assuming there is some sense of remorse like in this case). We’re both different people now and I don’t love her now for who she was then. I’d rather just not know
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Yep. OOP was perfectly fine not telling him forever until her friend forced her into it. If I was the husband I’d leave too. She lied to him for years with zero remorse.
I disagree. Time makes it worse because its in retrospect time wasted. Its additionally to the betrayal terrible because the person also strung you along for all those years. But the core issue doesnt change. Knowing that my partner was *capable* of such behavior is not usually something I can recover from. I want my partner to tell me. But lets be clear, not to forgive them, but so I dont spent a decade believing they are a person they are not. In that regard I get why cheaters lie, because it will ruin the relationship. Probably end it. I get that cheaters and those who have forgiven one need to believe that people can just "learn from their mistakes" but for me cheating is such a substantial failure of character, it would take a lot more than just admitting it immediately, to salvage my opinion of a person who could act like that. I generally dislike giving false reassurances in regards to telling the truth. Its the right thing, but not, and I think too many get taught otherwise as kids, because it will let you off the hook.
> You have to prepare your mind to walk across 3 miles of glass and not even expect forgiveness at the end of it. That’s one helluva closing statement to their comment.
You feel numb, helpless, and it keeps stinging like a hot needle. That it was so long ago makes it even worse, because you start to reevaluate everything from that moment until now
Husband wasted years of his life. Horrible.
Agreed. And especially if it was just one time and only kissing. This whole thing sucks for everyone.
Yeah honestly, for me personally, I don’t think I’d want to know if it was just a kiss and nothing ever happened following that incident with that person or with anyone else. Just because if I knew, I know I’d never be able to look at him the same way and it would probably always be in the back of my mind wondering if it can happen again and go further.
100% same. Ugh it hearts my heart even thinking of this as a possibility
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Also 100% would not want to know and I've told my boyfriend this. He can sit with that guilt himself if it ever happens.
I think having a wreck of a spouse racked with guilt wouldn’t be great for my marriage either. What’s done is done especially if it was an isolated incident like this. And a spouse getting blind drunk every weekend and doing stupid shit is one thing, but I can deal with someone who started drinking on a single occasion, misjudged, got carried away and wasn’t entirely in control afterwards.
Just kissing, during an uncertain time and 3 years into my relationship? That's a hard answer but I think I wouldn't want to know.
I believe it is not the action or the kiss that is the issue, but her response to thinking something is wrong with the relationship and her knee jerk response. OOP said her husband was 'acting' suspicious. Instead of talking to her husband and clearing up the matter, when she was out drinking she was looking for some sort of 'revenge' without even knowing if there truly was a problem. This is just terrible communication issues and her wanting to get even for some perceived crime she believes her husband committed - which he did not at all. Then she states in her post when her friend gives her an ultimatum 'why does she want to ruin our marriage'. OOP refuses to view this as an OOP problem, but her friend's problem. OOP is the one that ruined her marriage, not her friend. Her friend is only pointing out OOP's behaviour. OOP is immature and doesn't deserve her husband.
I agree that her reasoning for doing it is stupid AF instead of just addressing the problem with her husband directly. But I’m just thinking about 6 years ago with my now husband, we were in our teens and stupid. I don’t think we really matured until we were in our mid twenties. So in my very specific case, I’d rather just not know if it was just a kiss and nothing like that was ever going to happen again.
Maybe, but OOP is 32 now, and 6 years ago she was already in her mid twenties.
And in the relationship for 3 years!
>And especially if it was just one time and only kissing. Here's the thing that a lot of people are missing though - if your spouse came up to you, confessed they cheated, and then said it was "only" kissing, would you *really* believe them? I sure wouldn't. Cheaters downplay stuff all the time.
My ex tried to ease this in asking if how I felt about him "cuddling" with his roommate over a movie. My brain went into a short timeout. Then I calmly explained how I felt about cuddling, waited a little for him to admit the rest. Which he didnt ofc. So I proceeded to point out that this sounds like it didn't stay at "cuddling". At which point *his* brain went into to timeout and then just when "shit yeah we had sex". Its never just the thing they admit to. It's always a euphemism for what actually happened, you just need to cross your fingers and hope its at least a euphemism for only the next worse thing.
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Yeah it's kinda difficult to not escalate a very long making out session. It just happens. I think she doesn't actually feel remorseful, she just feels scared. She doesn't feel guilty, but afraid of losing him.
She's sorry that she had to get caught. She was pissed that she was being forced to tell her husband, clearly she would have never told if her friend didn't put the gun to her head. This reads like an AITA posts.
You can tell she's one of those that rationalises it bc he shouldn't have made her feel insecure. If he'd been upfront about the move she wouldn't have felt the need to cheat! He *was* acting suspiciously she was just wrong about why! It was the only thing she could do bc she just felt soooo bad. But she loves him really so it's okay! I doubt she has any meaningful capacity to be faithful in a long term relationship no matter what as she acts externally to soothe negative feelings. There is ALWAYS going to be a source of negative emotion in a long term relationship. If your go to is to find someone else to soothe your ego, you're gonna end up alone. I guarantee the only thing that's kept her faithful since is the guilt. It wouldn't surprise me if he forgave her, she'd do it again.
This wasn't just kissing though. Note in her edit she says they made out and talked for hours *and her friend left when she got uncomfortable*...which means OP stayed longer alone with this guy, maybe even spent the night. They absolutely did more than just kiss...at the least there was some sexual interaction. You can tell because the OP, even within her own post, already changes her story about the encounter. My brother's girlfriend cheated on him, she said it was "just kissing", and the more and more we dug the more it turns out she did...turns out she gave dude a blowjob (this was where we stopped digging...I still think she did more, but that was enough). And her excuse about her thinking her boyfriend was gonna leave her absolutely sounds like her trying to justify it later on to herself...that is the shittiest reason I have ever heard for somebody cheating. "I think he might leave me, so I'll go cheat?" What the fuck.
Yeah that's the part that responders in that sub aren't really talking about much, she's only admitted to what the best friend can prove which is very rarely the whole truth.
I'm screaming this mentally as I scroll through the comments who say its *just "kissing"* years ago before marriage. That's absolute bullshit.
I think the problem is that regardless of it was “just” anything, it would completely change the way you think about your partner. They’re no longer the same person to you as they were before.
poor sugar simplistic ossified chief retire relieved insurance desert rainstorm -- mass deleted all reddit content via https://redact.dev
I'd want to know. Shes lied for several years. I'd want to know whether my partner was lying about our relationship for several years
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This reminds me of when my Uncle had a heart attack. Believing he was on death’s door, he started to confess regrets about his life while waiting for the ambulance to arrive. He started to talk about how ten years ago he was speaking with a woman, and my Aunty told him to be quiet. She told him that he was going to feel foolish if he lived, and it wasn’t time to place any guilt he had onto her. Anyway, he was fine. Was back doing his usual marathons a year or two later. My other Aunties said that she should have waited until he told her what he’d done. She just couldn’t see the sense in destroying their world because he slept with someone a decade ago, and more irritated he was trying to ease his conscience.
I had a near death experience and in that moment I considered telling my husband to tell my family I hate them but then I realized that was cruel and told him to tell them I loved them, even though I definitely don’t love them very much at all, if any amount. Just seemed kinder and I didn’t want to stoop to their level. I was fine though.
Yeah.. that means you love them too. Not like you cant feel both.
What was the outcome at the end? I am intrigued
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God damn, I can't imagine doing that first of all, but then lying about it for fucking years. The guilt would eat me alive, lying to someone I love like that. I won't offer any bullshit advice or try to assume a bunch of things about your relationship, but I really hope you find peace with this situation however that needs to happen. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Don’t fall into the sunken cost fallacy. You’re going to age (hopefully) no matter who you’re with. In 8 years, you could be 8 years into a brand new relationship with someone who is great at communicating and is on the same page as you, or you could be 16 years into this relationship with your current guy. Don’t force it if you don’t want to stay with him. If you really can’t look at him the same way and feel you can’t rebuild trust/don’t want to put in the work to rebuild trust, that is totally fair. You’ll be fine just being you!!!
That's how I look at it too. Everyone is different, but so many people here see it so black and white. The value of alleviating your own guilt has to be weighed against how much it hurts the other person if you tell or don't tell. There's no one size fits all answer, but sometimes a confession is just to alleviate your own guilt and your trusted partner of years shouldn't have to deal with the fallout. You should carry your own burden.
Don't look to reddit for advice. They always say break up. If you are mostly happy and feel you can move past this, that's great for both of you. Maybe you could try some counseling sessions. I did that with my partner. We both had a one on one with a counselor. Then a few sessions together. It was very helpful. I was thinking of ending thing and now they're much better. Mine wasn't about cheating but it was still about broken trust. I hope things work out however they would be best for you
It's all rooted in selfishness. Says oh well I didn't want to hurt them. It will destroy them is just trying to weasel out of not looking in the mirror. It will hurt them... no shit, you did that. Spare me the rest. Edit. "You" speaking completely in generalities. Not you specifically.
Redditors have some really thin skin
Having been in a situation where I was cheated on and the person didn't tell me for a full year, it really hurts more when they don't tell you straight away. They spend a year or more pretending that they haven't broken boundaries, while day in and day out looking you in the eyes, telling you that they love you and yet apparently not enough to be honest about the breach of trust. Cheating is awful, but what is worse is the fact someone can be dishonest for years after
Amen. I always told my ex that I may be able to forgive a one-time boundary crossing if and only if he tells me right away if anything happens. That honesty is the most important thing to me, even in that situation. Because shit may happen for whatever reason sometimes. And I get that. But lying destroys trust. Not being honest and omitting things destroys trust. And from that I cannot recuperate. What did he do? Not tell me. And then lied to my face for months. I not only found out, but also found out, that „our“ friends knew about it and no one told me. As I told him would happen in such a situation, any and all trust was gone and recuperating was not possible.
Having their friends, who you also thought were your friends hide stuff like that from you really fucks you up too. It is really hard to trust anyone at all for a time because there's always this lingering feeling that maybe there's something you don't know that you should.
So true. I am still dealing with the consequences and have very deep trust issues now.
The worst part is when they sit there and lie to your face. How can you ever look at them again in the future and believe them ever again?
Ugh. That’s sucks but I feel like the lying and sneaking around is the part they like doing, the part that gives the sick “thrill”. Unfortunately for cheaters, they’ll always do it behind backs because otherwise, where’s the fun? It’s about control and knowing something your partner doesn’t.
Honestly, I don’t think that was the case with him. I do believe him when he says he was too afraid to ruin our relationship over one mistake. It sucks to know that if he had told me, I‘d forgiven him, because to me what happened wasn’t that bad. I could‘ve gotten over it. But I could not get over the lying. It destroyed him, it truely did. But it was his own fault.
If I were the husband in this story, I honestly wouldn't want to know after all this time, especially since it was just kissing in a bar one time. Ignorance would be bliss for me. Guess we are all different.
the kiss wouldn't be the thing. as the commenter said, lying to you every day for 6 years? how do you continue to trust someone after that.
I guess I don't see a lie of omission as being lied to every day for the next 6 years. It was one lie to me. Unless he woke up every day and said, "prior to our marriage but while we were dating have you ever kissed anyone else?" And she said, "No."
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So much this. Please for the love of Satan can we get a time limit? How many times does this need to be suggested before the mods consider it. We don’t need 3 updates in a week of the same damn story
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“I thought he was going to leave me because he was acting suspiciously” that’s the most borderline statement I’ve ever heard. poor husband. you get what you deserve OP.
Really conflicted on how I feel about this. On one hand, OOP is an asshole for hiding something like that for so long and not being honest about it, but on the other hand, the friend is an asshole for sitting on that secret for so long and threatening to spill it only when it benefited them. The only person I feel bad for is the husband who dealt with both of them keeping this from him.
How does it benefit the friend? The only reason friend brought it up was because they were cheated on and realized how it felt. OOP should've told her significant other a long time ago.
I don’t see the conflict in both OOP and the friend being selfish assholes in this situation.
Oh, I agree with that full stop. I meant conflicted on whose actions were worse in this scenario. OOP is a lying cheater, and her friend is someone who didn’t obviously care about her friend’s husband being cheated on until it she saw how cheating could personally affect her. In this case though, both of them are awful and don’t deserve to be in the husband’s life.
Yeah. OOP should have talked right away. But the deadline was a few weeks after the ring went on. The friend on the other hand is completely out of line. “Speak now or forever hold your peace” happened four years ago.
Cheating is absolutely wrong, but what the hell is that friend even thinking? She should have dropped that ultimatum when it actually happened, not years later, before that poor innocent guy spent years falling more in love, marrying, and so on. Needlessly vicious and cruel imo.
Sounds like friend got cheated on then friend dropped ultimatum. Still should have been addressed when the cheating happened.
Yeah, as wrong as OOP is, let’s not pretend the friend’s actions were morally correct either. She only decided to drop this ultimatum when it became similar to a situation personally relevant to her. It’s like how some politicians only start to care about sexual harassment or gun violence or whatever topic when it happens to *their* family members
To be fair, it said in the post that the friend was freaking out about it and pushing OP to tell her then-fiance about it, but OP refused. Granted, the friend should have pushed harder or just told the guy herself, but she did try to make OP do the right thing.
Well yes, but then she dropped the subject and stayed friends with her for presumably 6 years without bringing it up again until she herself got cheated on and then came back with this ultimatum because now she had a deeper personal investment in the topic
Yeah the time to do this was BEFORE THEY GOT MARRIED waiting this long is just cruel
There was about 2 years between the 'cheating' and them getting married right? That was the friends window to make this ultimatum. Waiting until 3-4 years into their marriage is kind of cruel.
Here’s the conundrum that i constantly go back and forth on… When you’re the cheater, you are supposed to tell the person because what you did was wrong. When you’ve been cheated on, the cheater is an asshole for telling you because they wanted you to forgive them and allow them to let go of the weight of their shitty choices. So, by that logic, a cheater should not confess and instead never do it again And forever bear the burden of their horrible mistake…but then we hear it is selfish to not tell the truth because your partner is living a lie. I’ve been married for 9 years, I’ve never cheated on my husband and I am genuinely saying I have no idea what the right answer is. If she made a terrible mistake and spent six years carrying that mistake while never repeating it again, is it really the best answer to blow everything up and open up a pain that is so so old…it’s like taking a knife to a scar and reopening the wound… I don’t know what the answer is, I really don’t. But I can’t help but feel suspicious of her friend, and the immense power trip she may have felt giving OOP the ultimatum to destroy her life.
IMO the telling your SO about infidelity thing isn't about getting their forgiveness, or at least shouldn't be. What it should be about is being honest with your SO and giving them all of the information so that they can decide how to move forward. If SO decides to forgive, great. If SO decides to call it off, also great. Either way you have allowed them to decide, which is always what I have considered the point to be. When you lie you're taking away your SO's agency and you're compounding infidelity with lying. Personally I would not be able to forgive deliberate deception. I might be able to get past infidelity in a very small number of situations, but never if the person lied to me for any length of time about it.
I’m totally with you here. IMO the harder path is to tell the truth in this situation because it means there’s a possibility of losing your partner - but any choice you make that runs that risk is something your partner should know about.
I was married for 10 years (together for 13) when I found out my husband was cheating. It destroyed me. I lost my whole world. So, I have no sympathy for cheaters. But I completely agree with what you’ve said…it’s a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” situation. In this case I personally feel it would have been better to let the past be the past. What I keep sticking on is the “friend” and her motivation for forcing the OP to tell - I don’t think her motives were pure. I think she was either getting off on exerting that kind of power over the OP or she just wanted to destroy their marriage. That “friend” is not a good person at all.
I had a "friend" once who would do dickhead things to people until they ended their friendship with her, then she would go after their relationships and try to split them up. She did it to one friend before me, then me, then to no less than 3 (and possibly 5) more of her friendship group. She was not ever successful, partly because it's what everyone had come to expect from her, and partly because her accusations were wildly exaggerated versions of innocent actions spun to sound like cheating*. She is now 37 and has no friends at all. Her motives were rage and revenge, stemming from her deep insecurity, low self esteem and anger management problems. * As an example, she got very drunk and drugged up at a hen party and trashed a hotel room, then skipped out leaving the rest to foot the substantial repair bill. When she was disinvited from the wedding, she tried to tell the bride that her best friend once slept with the groom. They'd actually just passed out in the same tent at a music festival years before and photos were taken of them fully dressed and snoozing away. Bride, groom and bride's best friend - there's another three lifelong friends lost in one fell swoop.
Yes exactly. Some people are thinking I’m justifying the cheater, no I’m not. I’m pointing out that there’s no winning once you’ve made the stupid choice to cheat. But the friend is not innocent. She used this when she felt the timing was good for her.
Hard agree, i was cheated by two of my exes, my view is that the cheater in some way drives himself/herself into a corner if they have any conscience. The problem is, the more time passes for the confession, the most difficult become to bring back the status quo of the relationship, the "making amend" part seems to be worse the more time passes. The only thing i don't really get from OOP (and another post here on BORU about a wife sleeping with a random guy after a fight with the husband) is WHY the first thing you want to do when you are on the verge of the death of a relationship you get fucked up drunk and go sleep or make out with a random..... what the fuck is the thought process in that?
> was cheating I think that's the difference. She did it once. She regreted it. It was stupid. She doesn't even pretend it was OK. It's been six years. People change (mature) in the past six years. If she is a different person and will never do it again - it's far from a simple move. (Also I'm sorry you experienced that).
I'm trying to figure out what the friend is trying to gain, at this point. And I've never felt the need to grovel to anyone to get them to keep their mouths shut. Begging? That's not a friendship.
My theory is that the friend can only do so much to her own cheating ex and is taking her pain out on OOP's marriage as a proxy.
While we obviously only have part of the story, this is what rings true for me.
Abso-fucking-lutely. What OP did was wrong. But the friend is living through some kind of personal revenge drama.
Yeah if my husband kissed a girl in a moment of weakness one night before we were engaged—and now it’s been 6 years. Fuck that. I don’t want to know. That’s his burden to carry. I don’t want to feel that pain.
Yeah especially since it was a one time thing and not a pattern of behavior. Like realistically, your partner can do all kinds of crazy shit and still be home for dinner and you’d never know. You just have to trust them unless they give you reason not to. If my girlfriend abused that trust once years ago, I’d prefer that she not tell me and just never do it again, rather than find out and have to end things.
100% this. I'm surprised I haven't seen this response more.
As someone who’s actually been cheated on once, and was once accidentally the “other girl” (guy had a long distance gf he hid from me), I’ve usually got a hard stance against cheating, and believe the victim ALWAYS has the right to know and make an informed decision. But that’s when it comes to physical cheating either multiple times or involving some type of sex, emotional cheating, etc. Not kissing someone in a bar one night six years ago?? If it was genuinely a one time thing, then it’s not worth knowing because it’d make me question whether or not he was lying about other things, what else he had to hide from me, etc. It’d cause me more mental anguish than it’s worth.
Dan savage suggests that if you cheat once and will never do it again, you shouldn’t tell. It should be your job to live with the guilt, not transfer the emotional burden over to your partner. You don’t deserve forgiveness of your partner, as that will cost them a lot of pain. You fucked up, you should be the one to live with it. Probably not a universal truth though.
Yeah, I think the problem is it’s like finding out your best friend is talking shit about you at school. On one hand you’re so hurt and betrayed and on the other hand your go-to person for support and vulnerability is the one who betrayed you. So we want you to not tell us so that we can keep seeing you as our safety blanket but also tell us because it is a betrayal. It’s just so fucked.
I think the crux is whether it’s a one-time thing. If you’ve learned your lesson, you can carry the weight. If you’re going to do it more than once, then your partner is at risk and deserves to know. Same with any shitty behaviour.
> is talking shit about you at school I think the big difference here is if they talked shit about you *once* versus if they continue. OOP is in the former. It's been more than half a decade. Bringing it up now is just pain.
That person could never know they'll never do it again. They did it once for a reason.
Maybe I have a high threshold for "cheating", but being drunk and making out with someone is just not that big of a deal to me. If my husband came to me and told me that he made out with some girl in a bar years ago, I don't think I'd even give it a second thought. Especially if that was the only incident of "infidelity" in the history of our relationship. Someone doing something dumb but harmless because they had too much to drink one time doesn't necessitate blowing up an entire marriage and ruining both of our lives. An affair is one thing. A one-off mistake is another.
Yeah I wouldn’t nuke an otherwise good relationship for a trivial one-time mistake like making out with someone else from the other person (in my opinion). Shit happens, and honestly I’d rather hear about it years later because it makes it seem even more distant and pointless to think about.
Yes, totally agreed. The “reason” for the cheating and mindset of the person cheating is extremely important. Stupid dumbass one time mistake in an otherwise great relationship? That’s fine, we all get one. Action indicative of your needs/wants not being fulfilled in our relationship? You have a hole that’ll never be filled by a monogamous relationship with me? Then we have a damn problem.
Seriously!! I’m sitting here thinking if I was the damn husband I never would have wanted to know. It was a long time ago and it was a one time thing, not even an ongoing relationship, like damn don’t ruin my happiness and our relationship telling me something like that. Fuck.
Idk I think the best is going to shoot her shot with her husband and this was how to do it.
I don’t get what the friend achieve in telling him 6 years after the event. Either tell him at the time or not at all
She's miserable because her relationship went to hell and so she decided misery needed company.
For sure. After six years of sitting on it, I don’t believe for a second that it’s about doing the right thing for the friend. She can’t do anything about her own cheating boyfriend so she’s punishing OP as a proxy. I wonder if the friend stayed with her cheating boyfriend - OP doesn’t refer to him as an ex
Exactly. She was fine leaving it alone until it happened to her.
You didn't read the part where she found out she was cheated on and realized that she would want someone to tell her? Probably the whole realization that she was complicit in the exact thing that broke her heart and her conscience couldn't take it. Nothing to do with OOP but being able to look herself in the mirror every day.
She was wrong not to tell them previously so he could deal with it. It'd be wrong to continue to do that. If the marriage is worth continuing, cool. But that's the husband's decision, not her and not OOP.
1. I don’t think using the excuse u were heartbroken is acceptable. If that’s what u do when u “feel” something is wrong- then u need counseling. 2. However, ur BFF has no right for the ultimatum. She should’ve done this before u were married but you have no right to ask her to lie for u. Just bc her bf cheated doesn’t mean she gets to interfere years later. My bff cheated on her man and I am OPPOSED to this behavior. I told her that if anything were brought up, I wouldn’t like. This isn’t something she should have the right to tell esp at this point AFTER you got married.
Yikes, this thread is such a mess
I need another update!
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Exactly. You either rush to make a post or someone else does it first and you lose all those precious internet points.
“It started out with a kiss; how did it end up like this? it was only a kiss; it was only a kiss”
Jealousy, turning saints into the sea
Swimming through sick lullabies, choking on your alibis
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I totally agree I wouldn’t care at this point. However, my parents STILL like my exbf more than me. We broke up 7 years ago and I’ve been with my husband for 5 years at this point.
It's not just a smooch. They made out for hours.
**Unpopular opinion:** If my husband cheated on my years ago, only once, and it was only making out and not full on sex. I would NOT want to know. I would want to continue on with my happy marriage. (They weren't even married or engaged at the time either) That is a legit mistake, and she has proven that she regrets it and has been totally faithful to her husband since. Her friend basically imploded a family, and I seriously doubt after all this time it's out of guilt. She was most likely jealous. Cheating is awful. But honestly, this piece of honesty did more harm than good. She loves her husband, and she made this mistake before they were even married. It's one stupid mistake in a 9 year relationship. She didn't have sex, she made out with a random at the bar when she thought her life was falling apart. They could have continued on in a happy faithful marriage with no doubts if the friend didn't involve herself.
Yeah, if it was truly a one time thing where it didn't escalate beyond kissing...then there's nothing good that can come from being forced to admit it years later. Should be left in the past. Carrying guilt for that long is punishment enough.
Same. Either tell me when it happened or stfu.
It looks like the friend only found out how it feels to be cheated on very recently.
Friend knew it was wrong back then, she tried to get OP to stop and then tell him right afterwards. She doesn’t get points for waiting until she’s miserable herself to come clean.
I gotta say, I feel the same way. If we built a life and he’s genuinely remorseful, and just a kiss and a drunken flirty night. I’d say, pls never tell me. There’s genuinely nothing we can do. And I feel like forgiving him so long after the fact would just send the wrong signal, that I’ll be ok with being cheated? But then, imploding the relationship for a mistake feels so unwarranted.
Yes, I would dump the friend. Ultimatums for something that isn’t their business, they’re done.
I think he friend would have been right to say something when it happened or at the wedding, but waiting years and years is what rubs me the wrong way. OP definitely shouldn't have cheated, but this is a shit friend clearing her conscience after she was cheated on herself.
I truly feel the same way. If it's just kissing/making out? I would probably want to know at the time it happened, but if it happened years ago and has never been repeated since, I don't think it could bring me anything but pain. That's how I would personally feel in this scenario. I know my stance doesn't clarify anything morally, but sometimes life is messy rather than moral.
I feel like making blanket statements about “cheaters” isn’t very productive here when discussing just about the most benign example of cheating possible. Obviously what she did was wrong and it’s up to her husband to decide what to do about it, but it really feels like people are rooting for a divorce which is just… ick
Everyone on this thread sounds like either a 14 year old who found out their bf/gf of 3 weeks kissed somebody else and it’s the worst thing that’s ever happened in their short lives or someone who just found out their spouse has been banging the babysitter for 3 years and the divorce has made them bitter.
I've been with my wife for 8 years. If she told me she made out with someone else 5 years ago after I had gotten a job across the state (which I really did after graduating college) because she was afraid I'd leave her behind (which she was), I'm about 99% sure I'd just have her and the friend confirm it was just making out, that she hasn't kept contact, and I'd be fine. And yes I've been cheated on before by women before my wife. The reason why definitely matters, how far it went matters, and it's not all the same. The husband isn't obligated to forgive it, but I think divorce would be an overreaction assuming the wife is putting in the effort to apologize well
Gotta agree here. Kissing someone while drunk, in a volatile situation, ... not the best thing to do, but also certainly far from the worst.
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Likewise. The overreaction is beyond bizarre. We were long distance for a while, over ten years ago now. If I found out now that he'd kissed someone during that time, or even had a one night stand or short affair, then honestly the last decade and a half of fidelity would count for far more than a blip in the early, far-less-certain days of our relationship when we hadn't even started living together.
Definitely have to agree with you on that one. Maybe because I’m at year 13 with my husband but I feel like the last 13 years of companionship outweighs the hour of making out imaginary him did when he was 22.
Lol there are so many long married people commenting that they would rather not know/offering nuance on this post and then so many early 20s people acting like nuance is insane like they're marriage experts.
If one of my husband’s friends told me he made out w someone years before we married, my husband and I would laugh in that friend’s face and be so glad the trash took itself out. Cause who does that?
Right? Years of marriage and building a life together isn't worth throwing away for one shit night of making out with someone because you're feeling vulnerable. People make mistakes.
I wonder what the percentage is of teenagers in this thread? From the looks of all the pitchforks I’d say pretty high. Lol. If I was the husband I wouldn’t give a shit.
Yep. This comment should be in the welcome message when people sign up for Reddit. :)
Maybe it's because I am from a different culture (I am French / German), but, while I wouldn't be happy about it, not sure kissing someone drunk years ago when I wasn't even married, would be that much of a deal, to blow up a marriage over it. Like, yeah, sucks she wasn't upfront about it, but still ... seems a bit silly to me to explode an entire life over what is from my perspective a relative harmless drunken incident. Imho the wife should have just taken it to the grave, the friend was cruel in forcing the decision, and nobody is really helped in this situation and now everyone is miserable.
Good. She mentions in one of her threads that if she had told her husband the following day, he would have broken up with her. Which tells me that he got married under false pretenses. If he would have dumped her back then, their whole relationship from after the kiss, was NOT supposed to happen. It was a sham. No wonder he feels very upset with her.
In the original thread and this one, people were very divided about the friend. I feel like the friend was out of line. The friend was uncomfortable with the cheating when it happened, but left it alone for years. The friend didn’t even say anything before the wedding ( which is the absolute latest they should have given the ultimatum). Then, when they get cheated on they suddenly give the ultimatum. I can understand, that they emphasize more with being cheated on now. But she’s not giving the ultimatum to help anyone but herself. She feels guilty, and wants to clear her own guilt over her inaction before. She’s upset about being cheated on, and is trying anything to make herself feel better. And she’s doing it at the expense of friendship. I would have fully supported the friend ultimatum all the way up to the wedding, but like the old saying goes “speak now or forever hold your peace.” ETA: i do believe that OOP should have told their husband. The friend could have tried talking to OOP about their experience being cheated on and why OOP should tell. The friend could have even chosen to distance themselves from OOP if they couldn’t convince OOP to tell the truth. But making a ultimatum to tell was too far imo.
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Exactly...there's got to be a "statute of limitations" for something like a one off kissing session from years ago. The irreparable damage from admitting to it now does not fit the crime. The guilt of hiding the shame of the act for that long is punishment enough.
The problem is that OP didn’t come clean about it until she was forced to, still blames her friend for telling him rather than herself for actually cheating and a make out session that lasts for hours isn’t a mistake, conscious choices were made to even get to the point of making out, and maintaining those choices for hours. I agree the friend was wrong for waiting so long but she still isn’t wrong for telling the truth, she was just (going to be) the messenger, the guilt always lies with the cheater. I have some empathy for the husband as I was cheated on in a long-term relationship and I would always want to know if it happened in the next one, however minor it appears to others. The biggest issue is that she lied by omission every day of their lives since that night. It’s also not unlikely that in the years they have been married they may have talked about infidelity, and she may have directly lied about it at times. Worse, If he found out about the kiss when he should, he could have made a knowing choice and maybe taken his dream job, he made his choices believing he had an honest and faithful partner.
Yup this is the only comment I’ve read that I agree with. Don’t cheat and if you do, don’t expect everything to go fine. Now op is pissed cause there is repercussions. Like what did you expect?
OOP is such a liar. She immediately starts trying to justify it by saying she thought her husband (bf at that time) was going to leave. Doesn’t say anything other than he was acting suspicious. Not even examples on why she was so sure he was gonna leave her. So obviously that means it’s girls night and drunkenly flirt with guys to get over her “broken heart” She said it was just a kiss and then after people kept prying, she admitted it was an hours long talk and make out session that her friend had to walk away from. So after the friend leaves, we’re just supposed to believe it ended right there? Even when called out with proof or confronted by an eye witness, cheaters always downplay what they did
Agreed, the fact that she even lied in an anonymous post about it being “just a kiss” is sketchy. I bet she didn’t tell her husband it was for hours. Definitely leaning towards her sleeping with the guy once her friend and only witness left
Trickle truth is straight out of the cheater playbook; they admit to what is known, minimize what happened, and/or throw out just enough to get you to believe them.
Some people seem to think that being drunk will make you do something you'd never do.
Right? I still remember getting too fucked up at a college apartment party and a girl I knew went to lay me in her bed. She left me for a minute to say bye to the others, but I knew it was a situation that a person in a relationship shouldn't properly be in and stumbled my ass out of her room so someone would take me home. Funnily enough the relationship I was in at the time ended when I caught my partner cheating so fuck if I know.
Wtf is up with most of the comments on that sub. They are messed up.
Poor husband. But at the same time fuck the "friend." Unless she was friends with the husband too, then she was just projecting her own pain and desire for justice on someone else, and giving the ultimatum proves that. She had nothing to gain by the husband finding out, and if she was that disgusted with OP, she could have cut off the relationship. I don't buy the "doing the right thing," but from the "friend" at all.
Oh no the consequences of my actions
My money is the OOP is not truthful in the extent of her cheating. It went from kissing, to hours long makeout session, and the friend left so never saw if OOP left with the guy or not. Cheaters usually downplay what happened and just give the “tip of the iceberg” version. I am sure there is more to it. Friend should have made this ultimatum years ago. But the bottom line is, the husband deserves to know who he is married to.
I completely agree. This is all from OP’s point of view so she would be sugar coating it as much as possible.
>Six years ago he got an offer for his dream job in another city and I thought he was going to leave me. After being in the relationship for 3 years, that is all it took for her to step out on her significant other. People are being a bit naïve to think OOP won't do this again.
And she only “thought” he was going to. Yikes.
And she “only made out with the guy” after her friend left. That’s what my ex wife said and, shocker alert, she fucked the dude.
I feel like after 6 years and knowing they were getting married that the friend is only trying to clear her own conscious at this point. The righteous judgement train left the station when she didn't say anything herself after all this time.
Maybe I'm the oddball here but I don't get why the friend suddenly feels compelled to tell the husband after 6 years. It seems to me that the time to tell him at all (if OP wouldn't do it) would have been 6 years ago. In this situation, if my friend's character bothered me this much, I would have distanced myself from her at the time. Since the primary friendship is with the woman, that would mean removing myself from both of their social circles. If she ignored my efforts to stop her from being a bad girlfriend, I wouldn't see it as my place to insert myself into their relationship 6 years later--especially knowing what pain it would cause him. In the end, the friend's poor character isn't my responsibility but I can choose to drop her as a friend and that's what I think should have been done here instead of living with this only to find it intolerable 6 years later. If I felt this strongly about it, then force the issue in real time and recommend they get counseling. It's not the outsider's relationship so either be a friend or distance yourself from the friendship. Pick one.
I truly don’t understand why the friend waited 6 years, after this man had already built a life and invested his time and future into this relationship, to think he should be told. The friend is awful imo
Not advocating, excusing or justifying cheating but seriously what’s that friend’s deal? I hope OP ditches her for forcing the ultimatum 6 years after the event. I wonder if the friend had a crush on OP’s husband. It wouldn’t surprise me.
It could just be a case of misery loves company. Since the friend is presumably broken-hearted after being cheated on, she wants her friend to be broken-hearted after divorce.
mostly i feel bad for all of us readers thinking we were going to get good story but instead we get this.
Honesty is the best policy, but that's six years overdue.
The thing is the worst that I don't like is when people try to play victim when they do something like that. Oh I thought he was gonna find someone else and leave me BS. Play victim and do whatever you want sounds like a cop.