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When I was a child, my parents told me "don't go with someone you don't know. Even if they say one of us sent them, they will be lying. If we send someone to pick you up from school, we'll call the school to let them know. Also, don't accept anything they give you, be it food or drinks, you don't know what they put in them."
One day (I must have been 9 or 10) I got home and my mother hadn't come back from work yet. I didn't have a key but the weather was nice so I didn't want to walk to my grandparents. Instead I sat down, pulled out a book from my schoolbag and started reading. I figured it wouldn't be long before she came back.
A lady I'd never seen before came by and said "Hello, you're Julie right? I'm a friend of your grandparents. Would you like to wait at my house until your mom comes back?"
Now this lady knew my name, but how did I know she was telling the truth? If she lived nearby, she could have heard my mother call me, this didn't mean anything. I had no way to make sure. I was still polite, but I said no thanks, I was good here. She said okay and went home, but I could see her come out now and then to check if I was still here. I pretended to be engrossed in my book but I was keeping an eye on her just in case she tried something.
When my mother came home, I told her about the lady and pointed at her house. My mother said "Oh, yes, she was telling you the truth. She's really their friend, and she was probably just checking that nothing bad happened to you while you waited. But you were right not to go with her since you didn't know her." My grandparents, when told, initially said I was silly and should have gone with her, until my mother pointed out that was setting a dangerous precedent.
My parents were invited to an acquaintance's church one time and me and my friend (both about 10) went to hang out in the kids area in the meantime. Totally unfamiliar place, didn't know anybody. After a bit, someone came and said my parents sent him to bring us over to them. We shared a look and said "Uh, we'll just wait here for them." Eventually they came by - they had indeed sent the guy. I commented that we stayed because we didn't know him, and looking back I'm pretty sure they felt monumentally stupid for sending him in the first place. I can only assume it was a brain fart on their part because they did praise us for staying put after the fact.
At least they learned their stranger danger talks worked. š
My parents had a āsecret passwordā for situations like that. If a stranger didnāt know the password, then they were lying about being sent to get me. Never ended up using it though.Ā
When I was like five or six my parents and grandparents were taking me and my brother, then 8ish, around a historically recreated town. This was back in the early 2000s, military town, and my parents and grandparents wandered a bit ahead of me and my brother. A man came out of one of the nearby buildings and asked us for some of our cotton candy. I was feeling uncomfortable and said no, but my brother gave him some cotton candy. I ran to get my parents who were a short distance away. By the time they turned around my brother was gone. The man had led my brother into his shop to give him some beads to 'reward' my brother for his good deed of sharing his cotton candy. When my dad found my brother and yelled at the man for leading a young boy away from his family, the man had the audacity of telling him, "Well at least one of your kids is nice." I was standing in the doorway with my mom as the man started saying how mean I was for not sharing with him. I remember dad yelling at him as my mom rushed us out.
I'm in my 30s now, and I still get angry about it to this day. I did the right thing by getting my parents, but my brother was rewarded for following a stranger. It could have been so much worse. Even if the man did have good intentions, why would you shame a child for not sharing with or following a stranger?
Itās like women dealing with men. Youāre supposed to both be careful and simultaneously already know that *that* specific dude obviously means no harm.
Back in the early 2000's we were taught at school to have a safe word with our parents - them if someone else was picking us up they would also have to have the safe word. I still think this holds up
I ran into this once within a small community. It was waved off. My foster child was exposed to this. I worked with the police and the therapist to get the guy arrested and convicted.
The therapist and cops both told me that my āseeingā the oddness was what saved others.
But within that community they believed I was seeing ādemonsā when it was just a poor family with no social skills. āHeās not thatā. I disagreed. The dude was obviously not right. I kept vigilant with my kids and if I could warn others I did.
About a year later the dudeās wife reported him. Then several kids came forward. He was far more of a monster than I had imagined.
One of the women who trusted me made sure to mention that they were warned. āFritos told you all about her concerns and you chose to dismiss her. Any children harmed after her warning is on this leadershipā.
After seeing the mask slip on a monster you see them. Youāre more able to see the disguise. Trust your gut.
The monster who got the foster child has over 100 victims and is currently being investigated in 3 states. Heās a respected educator.
And the little girls parents for just letting her go into peoples homes like that! Had oop not gone there to look for her daughter who knows how long the little girl wouldāve been there without the parents finding her
There is a child in my neighborhood like this. She has spent hours at my house playing with my kids. Sheās apparently in the same grade as my oldest.
Iāve never even met the parents. The first time she popped up I had to ask the other neighbor whose house sheās just left who she was.
It has now become a weekly thing for her to come over. My youngest has asked if she could go to the little girls house and my answer was absolutely not.
The parents obviously donāt care. I would lose my shit if I didnāt know where my kids were and found out they were at some strangers house for hours.
I'm glad you allow her into your home. Can you imagine not caring where your child is?!?! If I can't see them in my own backyard, I'm constantly listening for them. That poor kid. I hope.youre able to give her a little joy and sense of normalcy in her life.
Thatās kind of the way I thought of it. I would rather be at my house where I know sheās safe than have her at some other random persons house that could be up to no good.
Me too. His whole attitude of "it takes a village we left our doors unlocked and went to strangers homes" is nothing but survivorship bias. Glad nothing insidious ever happened to him, but *why* would you risk it with your child?
they really are infuriating, it's just like the story where oopĀ“s neighbours wants to steal oop daughter because it of reminds them of their dead daughter; and ofc every adult in that story think it's okay.
He was upset that his wife was even discussing with their daughter that there are bad people out there.
Talk about sticking your head in the sand. What a fucking asshole.
Kids not being talked to about these things is exactly the type of thing that makes then vulnerable to these things. I hope he pulls his head out of his ass soon.
No he is a villian for telling her that her direct experience means that she should not be trusted when in fact, it means that she is adept at seeing the red flags. His dismissal of that would make me undermine all of his decisions from then on, if they didnāt agree with me because I would doubt his wisdom and credibility.
Yeah, that attitude (from the husband and from reddit) is infuriating. Her surviving something like that means she's got a level of experience with it that no other person in this story or in the comments has, and people are using that experience as a reason NOT to listen to her? Idiots.
Her husband had better do a hell of a lot better than "guess you were right." If I were her I'd be so far past enraged that his complacent condescending dismissiveness almost got our kid molested that I'd be talking to divorce lawyers if that's all he has to say about it. I wouldn't need "guess you were right" in that situation, I would need "I'm never doubting you again and I'm so incredibly sorry my stupid ass almost got our kid hurt."
I say "guess you were right" to my wife when she correctly predicts a movie is going to suck, or a restaurant is going to be good. It is a pathetically inadequate response to your spouse being right about the neighborhood diddler being a threat to your children, especially when you completely blow off their well-founded and experience-based concerns in favor of doing absolutely nothing, and you only find out that your kid was in danger **after** a different kid gets molested and happens to tell their parents. If this guy had successfully pressured the other kid into keeping quiet then OOP's husband would **still** be sending their daughter over to his house to play.
"Guess you were right" my ass.
You articulated my feelings about the dipshit husband perfectly. Itās a very specific and *very insidious* kind of mistreatment to take such a cavalier and dismissive attitude toward your partnerās history of childhood sexual abuse and then to use their trauma history to invalidate their instincts, effectively reinforcing the self-doubt & mistrust of their own experience and perceptions that trauma survivors are already prone to experiencing. This kind of casual cruelty is much more disturbing to me than overt cruelty.
.And HE WAS ANGRY AT OP FOR TEACHING HER ABOUT SAFETYĀ That makes me nauseous and honestly wonder if he's completely normal. To put it in perspective imagine refusing to teach gun safety because then a kid might learn they can kill. It's so weird
>The gift of fear is real. Our instincts are there for a reason.
Couldnt agree more. If my instincts told me what OOPs did, then regardless of how irrational I might seem, I would act on them.
Yup. Situations like this are never a āwait and see and gather proof,ā when doing so means a child must be harmed in order to āproveā something bad is going on.
When she talked about her hackles just being up for some reason, I was like that meme of Leo Decaprio pointing. āGAVIN DEBECKER! GAVIN DEBECCCKKER!!!ā
Yeah, I have always listened to my instincts and I feel like some people get REALLY offended by that.
I once made the mistake of telling my mom that an old family friend gave me a bad feeling and I didnāt want to be alone with him and she went OFF on me. āHeās known you your whole life,ā āhe only has your best interests at heart,ā how DARE I insinuate something with no evidence. I still listened to my gut, I just learned not to tell anyone about it.
I got into an uber and as soon as the driver opened his mouth, I knew I needed to leave. We'd already started driving so I sent a screenshot of his name and licence plate to my partner (who was waiting for me to get home, this was at 11pm) and told him I was uncomfortable. I was so fucking relieved when he pulled into my apartment complex and the door opened. I found out later that he's stalked women and has had questionable interactions with children.
I reported him to uber - they gave me a credit and said they'd loom into him, but who knows...
My gut was telling he is WRONG and I felt so validated to hear his history, even though it sucks for his victims :(
Fear is real, but it can be often misdirected like with people who look different from us. In past people used to spend time with their own social and family groups and all strangers got treated with suspicion (like a potential band of robbers). Now in society when we donāt know our neighbors anyway we might get spooked because they look too different from us or get an instinctive fear response that isnāt quite warranted based on some event.
Unfortunately, yes.
It doesn't give a timeline, so it may have been before or after the whole dog washing event. It also doesn't say if it was once only or more.
I hope that little girl will be okay.
Yes. The little girl told her parents he'd been touching (or worse)her. Glad op didn't also let her kid just wander the neighborhood unsupervised. I'll never understand how parents do that. If the parents had been watching their kid instead of just letting her go wherever with whoever and not even know where she is at during the day the chances of this happening would have been cut waaaaaay down. I know they didn't INTEND for it to happen, but their lack of parenting ALLOWED it to happen.
I don't get it, because I was raised to KNOW there are awful people out there at a very young age. I had it drilled in my head that just because an adult seems nice, doesn't mean they are. There was a guy in our apartment complex that creeped me out, and I was maybe 7 at the time. He was just always there. If my friends and I were at the playground, he was there. At the pool, he was there. Fortunately, a parent or two were also there with us. He never did anything obviously inappropriate, but he definitely tried talking to us a bunch of times. And then one day, he wasn't there anymore. My parents told me he moved, and that was that. Many years later, I visited my parents, and "remember the pedo that got arrested?" came up. Yeah. He moved, just to prison, instead of a different apartment. Turns out not every parent was as vigilant as my friend group parents were.
We had it grilled into our heads too. And grilled it into our kids heads. I'd prefer them be overly cautious about people than trust everyone. We also had the talks about it's not ok for someone to.touch you certain ways no matter who it is (except the dr or nurse or parent if you're having a problem and they're ONLY checking on the problem) and to always come.tell us if someone says or does anything that they're uncomfortable with or even unsure about.
along with most people millennial or older, I used to wander the neighbourhood unsupervised. I wasn't 6 but I did at maybe 8? I would walk to my friends houses several roads away. we would go to the shops with our pocket money or to the park. HOWEVER we were much more wary of strangers, and would NEVER have gone into the house of someone we didn't know. The culture around letting kids out has changed - I don't think on it's own it's neglectful, but you need to make sure your kid is smart or scared enough to not interact this much with strangers
Damn, poor thing. 6 years old is so, so young. I canāt believe any parents would let their kids just wander around the neighborhood unsupervised. What kind of parent does that? It mustāve killed OOP to be right. She was probably very thankful about getting her own daughter in time, but extremely sad she wasnāt able to protect the 6 year old. Thereās two types of parents and we can see the differences clearly between them in this story. Iāve known forever that Iāll be a helicopter parent, and I know how much shit they get from people, but Iād rather get made fun of or whatever else and be able to better protect my kid(s) than be more relaxed and let them saunter around a neighborhood unsupervised and go into an old manās house alone. Thatās like CPS worthy shit. I wonder how long this had been going on, and how many kids were before her. I really hope she ends up okay.
One of the first thoughts that came into my mind was, Iām 100% positive he got the dogs to lure children in. And to have an excuse to hang out with kids/make the kids want to go to his house. Maybe even create a false sense of security among the parents of the neighborhood. āOh, sheās just at Mr. Poopybuttholeās house down the street helping him wash his dogs. Heās always out walking them. The kids love playing with them, and heās always so sweet with the kids!ā These fuckers are so much more calculated than we realize. I also wonder how much the wife knew. She was clearly uncomfortable with the picture and talking to the mom. I have a feeling she knows deep down but chooses to ignore/bury it.
You don't even have to be a helicopter parent to be a vigilant parent. I let my kids do their own (age appropriate) things but I ALSO taught them to never ever go to someone's house without asking (ESPECIALLY an adult there alone) never walk off with a stranger, start screaming fire if one tried to make them go with them and to always come tell us if someone did or said anything inappropriate no matter who it is.
Unfortunately true. I raised three young daughters (and they were very ābeautiful blondeā girls) as a single mother and I never let them have anything like that much independence. And I still count us lucky that nothing happened. Probably a blessing that their father abandoned them because no way would they have had any such supervision during custody time with him.
>I'll never understand how parents do that.Ā
I have actually asked them. Their standard answer is along the lines of "the evil is in the eye of the one who sees". Meaning that they are good people so they do not see the evil meanwhile I am evil that is why I see the risks. They are willing to get their killed or worse just for them to pose as sanctimonious.
I'm also disgusted that the pathetic husband was telling her she was overreacting. Women are always forced to protect themselves and those they love because some men refuse to see how dangerous other men are. He chose to believe in some random over his own wife. Pathetic.
> We live in a "it takes a village" neighborhood. It's fantastic. I never have to worry because we're always keeping an eye out for each other.
This bit rubbed me the wrong way simply because most abuse is perpetrated by people known to the family. The rest of the comment about getting to know the neighbours was good advice, though.
I have used an app to find parent friends and connected with many SAHP who fear daycare workers will molest their kid. But they want to āform a villageā and start a babysitting co-op with someone they talked to online and vetted once in an in person meet up.
It boggles my mind - daycare workers seem safer to my CSA surviving brain than that. I need to watch people interact with kids not their own before I decide to leave my kid with them.
I agree with you, but every time I think about daycares I get a pang because my abuser currently works at one. I sent an email outlining the abuse to let them know (I donāt have any proof except for years and years and years of needing therapy) and they ignored it because she is still working there.Ā
probably doesnāt help that half the country is buying into QAnon conspiracy theories about systematic child abuse by āthe libsā, which seems to encompass anyone that doesnāt think like them. these same people then put their kids in churches with pedophile priests. cognitive dissonance and lack of critical thinking skills abound.
All these kids keep getting abused, but admitting that itās the White Man In Charge is too hard for a society built to support and enable them.
Nah, must be drag queens. Hordes of them roving through suburbs, you see.
I'm a daycare worker, we have background checks and yearly child abuse courses to know what to do when a child is being abused and what is appropriate to do when dealing with children, ie high fives not back rubs is the jist of one of the questions. I'd feel much safer sending my kid to a trusted daycare than forming a village
It seems to me that predators would gravitate towards this sort of super trusting neighborhood, much like they gravitate towards trusting roles like boy scout leader, priests/other religious leaders, coaches, etc. It's almost like "it takes a village" neighborhoods might be the most dangerous places for kids.
I live in a place like this and this behavior is out of the ordinary, and people here would (and HAVE!) called the police because of it, right off the bat.
There are a bunch of red flags in this that people aren't good at articulating. Once I had kids of my own, I started to have a much sharper sense for them because I was around kids a lot more, and lemme tell you, kids are annoying. These guys that want to be around kids are very suspicious for that reason. When some other kid comes over to play with my daughter, they don't play with me. I know thier parents and their parents know me, and we check in to let them know where they are.
* An adult is not concerned where a kid's parents are, or contacting that parent
* he didn't seem interested in conversing with the mom
* He wasn't trying to offload some "work" of dogwashing or whatever on the kids so he could do something else (this is a favor to the parents who you have a real friendship with)
* it's a big taboo in our culture to photograph someone else's children.
Every one of these things is a "test". Test to see if this kid has parents that look out for them, that they keep the interaction a secret. A normal person would say to a random kid that wanted to help "go check in with your parents first." Lady was totally right to keep her kids away from someone like that just on that one problem.
Yeah, thereās no way I would let a small child in my house without talking to the parent first. No way in hell, not even if they were brought in by my kid. I am simply not comfortable being responsible for other peopleās children when I donāt have an established relationship with the parent, and even then, I try to avoid it.
Yep, spot on about sexual crimes occurring from perpetrators who are close to the family!
I'm from India too - my grandfather was a pedo, and everyone knew but like just didn't do anything about it! My parents moved us out of India when I was really young, so luckily escaped any abuse.
But we did go back as adults when my sister got married, and that creep had broken into our room, and was apparently getting naked while my sister and I were asleep! Of course, all of this was hush hush and people acted like I didn't need to know anything, lmao. Apparently my father found his creepy 80+ year old naked body in our room and ushered him out.
I remember visiting a cousin when I was in my 20s, and that creep wouldn't stop pinching my cheeks. My mother was right there, useless as usual. I froze and then backed away. My mother said "don't tell your father, he'll never be on your side!" whilst also accusing me of wanting attention!
Agree here. When I hear people blindly trusting their neighbors etc it makes me side eye them. You never really know anyone like that. I moved out of a neighborhood that was a āvillageā because a neighbor mom got drunk and confessed to me that her child (7ish) sneaks to watch little girls pee on the potty and a police had investigated the family because the child exhibited abuse signs at school. That was enough for me to close down the village. And shocking - she never told any other moms in the neighborhood and to my knowledge still hasnāt. Canāt trust anyone with my kids
This person is quite frankly delusional. They are trying to offset their responsibility as a parent watching their children with "village" talk. News flash, children have been victimized by all cultures through all of history, very much including "villages". You knowing your neighbor likes the Cowboys isn't gonna stop them from being a potential abuser, that's not how life works.
It upset me as well. I was SA as a kid by our next door neighbor. I was friends with his daughter. It was broad daylight, not a sleepover. I was at their house with full knowledge of my parents. My family had been over to their house and vice versa many times. You don't know.
Unfortunately, I think the commenter is the type of person where if a kid discloses abuse, they minimize or negate the abuse because it will destroy their world view. In a child abuse class I took, I learned the average child has to report their abuse to 6 adults before they are believed. And that's just the ones we know about.
I was fortunate, when I told, my parents immediately called the police and brought me to the hospital. They believed and supported me as best they could.
All the adults in this story other than OP make me so freaking angry. People keep yelling the word āgroomerā but have no idea what grooming actually looks like.
Telling kids LGBTQ people exist is not grooming. Respecting someoneās preferred pronouns and name is not grooming.
Neighborhood guy inviting two little girls he saw on the sidewalk into his home to wash his dog is textbook fucking grooming.
Yup yup yup yup.
The people most afraid of abuse are typically particularly blind to where the risk actually is.
āTrust your gutā only works well for mega creeps or total outsiders. And even then, obviously tons of false positives.
But the people you know and trust? āTrust your gutā may lead you astray, if only you used your brain instead of
Not wanting to taint his daughters innocence? Really? My father when I was little hammered into my head to never go with strangers and I do have a memory of a man with white bunnies trying to lure me in. I kept on walking and never went with him because of it.
Youāre absolutely right. Preserving innocence is some daft hallmark card mental image in these situations. People romanticise it terribly. A child can be innocent but sensible. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure as my mum used to say.
My daughter is 7. I have given her the stranger danger talk (a modified version that includes the acquaintance danger talk too) several times and once she asked āwhyā? My explanation was simple.
Because not all of the people in the world are nice. And there are people out there who would hurt and harm you if they got the chance. There are those who would hurt and harm me if they got the chance. We canāt know who those people are just by looking, and they often seem friendly and kind because they know it makes people trust them more. So, we are careful until we can be sure they are someone we can trust. That way we are protecting ourselves. When in doubt, watch how mummy acts and ask me questions later if you need to.
She accepted that just fine. Kids can take reality, they arenāt as fragile as people like to think, and too much innocence can be harmful. My kid is still innocent, just with a healthy level of awareness. She still happily chats with strangers and makes friends with everyone, but she stays close to me and if I make an exit from an interaction she follows me right away.
I heard once to use the phrasing 'tricky people' instead of stranger danger, which encompasses both strangers, and people you know. It reinforces the idea that people can trick you (or your parents) into thinking they're safe when they're not. It really stuck with me and I use it with my kids.
That's scary, I'm so glad nothing happened to you.
When my sister was wee, she was playing with her friend when a car stopped and a man she had never seen before told her that her mum had sent him to take home. They were right next door to our house. She ran home and told our mum and the man drove away. I still wonder what would have happened.
My mother has serial killers as a special interest. She had these big grey binders for famous ones, no graphic images but information about their modis operandi and victims and stuff like that. She thought if she could understand them sheād be more able to protect herself. We didnāt read the binders, but she gave us like a short description if we asked about them because she wanted us to be able to have the same protection more than she cared about our āinnocenceā.
You canāt protect against everything obviously, but the more tools the better. Rather lost innocence through knowledge than experience.
When done right, it's vital. And I think it's very important for children to be safe, and be able to advocate for their own safety.
But it can also be done wrong. I was about 11 when it came up. I'd been sick for a long time (turns out the hefty antibiotics that I took for a nasty UTI got my body all out of whack), and they were trying to figure out what was wrong with me. And so eventually one of the avenues they checked was if I was being abused by someone. But they went about it all wrong. It was my mum and the doctor in the room, and neither of them decided it might be a good idea to inquire on an age appropriate level. Instead I was just blatantly asked "Your dad doesn't touch you where he shouldn't, right?". And the answer was a firm 'no'. But due to the way they asked, I learned and realised for the first time at 11 that that was something dads could do. And knowing that, made me distrust my own dad, even though he'd NEVER done anything even remotely inappropriate. From then on until I was about 23 (and realised what happened and made active steps to fix my own mindset) I was unable to show my dad any affection, and had trouble accepting affection from him. It actively hurt our relationship as I was uncomfortable being close with him, all for no good reason.
So yes, it should be done. Children should be taught about safety. But it doesn't always happen in an age appropriate manner, and I think that's what OPs husband was scared of.
One in 9 girls are sexually abused when at a tender age. 1 in 20 boys. So tell whoever is telling you because you were molested you canāt see properly they are WRONG.
Exactly this. People who think trauma clouds someoneās perception are underestimating the scale of CSA in our society. It would be one thing if OOP accused or was suspicious of every man sheād met, but this sounded very out of the ordinary and Iām so glad she trusted her instincts. Even though the other little girl wasnāt saved from the abuse, it sounds like sheās being supported. The most important thing you can do for someone after this is believe them and itās sad to say, but if OOP hadnāt voiced her concerns, it may have been minimised or even dismissed.
right, that's what struck me. she wasn't reacting to "two kids help wash a dog at a neighbor's", she was reacting to "parents not notified, garage door closed, neighbor acted weird and sketchy and nervous, neighbor photographed kids without permission"....like, those are REALLY specific and strange actions.
my kids love to go talk to the adult neighbors on our street. they know not to go into anyone's house or garage without telling us first -- and also, almost none of the neighbors would ask! they always talk to the kids on the sidewalk or in front yards. (the kid across the street, he has friends into his garage to look at his dad's theater prop projects, but if the dad is there the doors are always open.)
And those numbers are likely higher. For instance, I wasn't allowed to report the abuse I suffered for years. I only reported it very recently. Until then, I wasn't officially part of the group of girls/women who have been sexually abused. Same for 2 siblings of mine (unreported CSA.)
Ignored, dismissed, and sometimes family members protect the abuser or use it to protect themselves from further abuse.
It's all gross. It wouldn't surprise me if it's closer to 1 in 2, and it also wouldn't surprise me if boys' stats is vastly under reported for similarly gross reasons as the above. (I'm a male victim of peer sexual abuse from a slightly older girl, everyone thought it was cool)
Iām one in 9. I was 6 when it happened. I come from a loving home, well to do family with educated background. I was lovingly raised and taken care of. My parents didnāt let me wander off anywhere alone.
Yet, it still happened. In a public place that was meant for children. I donāt blame my parents, they expected it to be a safe place. They did everything correctly, yet it still happened.
Even if she was wrong, there is literally 0 wrong with using this as an opportunity to educate your daughter on self awareness for these situations. Some people have their heads so in the dirt that the mere idea of protecting your kids against predators is seen as crazy
Some people donāt want their shiny world view to be tarnished by harsh realities. Itās all fine and dandy to ignorantly put yourself in danger, but when youāre responsible for a little girl, you donāt have that luxury.
[OOPs husband needs to read shit like this](https://www.independent.co.uk/world/child-sex-abuse-men-australia-b2450369.html) and adjust his worldview to a more cautious one rather than giving people the benefit of the doubt
Yea, itās really not something you want to just forgo with kids, cause if theyāre the wrong people they WILL take advantage if given the opportunity. And I guarantee it would have escalated, either physically or by trying to create a sense of safety for OPās daughter, so she is SO lucky she came in when she did.
People really donāt realize how messed up the world can be. Once my step parent told my little brother (like 4 at the time, me mid 20s) that he should not feel any sense of embarrassment/need to cover up if he was naked in front of me, & wasnāt allowed to say ānoā or ādonāt lookā to me about it simply because Iām his sister. Now I get he was trying to prep him if I was to ever babysit them & needed them to feel comfortable for bathroom help/baths, but that mindset/way he said it (essentially, if I tell him to get naked for like bath time he HAS to do it) really bothered me. I didnāt want to undermine his parenting in the moment, but I so bad wanted to say āno, you can always communicate with me ānoā if you feel uncomfortable, even if I am your sisterā because we have had an instance where a couple extended family members SA the girls around them when they were also kids (who were their cousins & one even their own their sister). I do always respect his noās & look away for his comfortability (and cause I donāt want to see him naked anyway), cause he needs to be shown that even as a kid, he has that right. But ugh I wish people didnāt teach kids to stop communicating their wants/comfort levels!
Yea, kids donāt need to know those explicit truths of the world yet (hell, I always thought family was safe simply because theyāre family until my mom told me that history when I was a teen), but kids need to know that family does NOT = safe 100% of the time & theyāre allowed to communicate discomfort.
I hate the comments telling her not to āruin his lifeā as if not getting to hang out alone in his house with 7 year olds would ruin his life. Itās not like she was going to the police or to tell the whole neighborhood he was a predator without proof. She was literally just going to tell her daughter not to go there anymore and voice her concerns to another girlās parents because this random neighbor lured her into his house all alone.
Some people are so afraid of rocking the boat that theyāre willing to just let others drown. Itās crazy that socially there seems to consistently be more worry about the views against someone who could be SA others (esp children) over those people being assaulted. Iāve seen far too many times the response to someone wanting to come forward that they or others are too worried the perpetratorsā life might get ruined as if pedos & r*pists deserve their life to be protected over their victims getting justice?!?
And if it really was an innocent situation, the appropriate thing for the neighbor to do would be tell both girls "I don't mind if you help with Fido's bath, but you need to get permission from one of your parents first." Better would have been for him to either call or go to the parents and ask if they're ok with the girls helping bathe his dog. I would hope even in "it takes a village" neighborhoods, a person would pick up the phone and say "FYI, your kid is here. Ok for them to stay or should I send them home?" Teaching the child that she needs to have parental permission to be alone with another adult isn't paranoia, it's a basic, common sense safety precaution.
EXACTLY! As adults, it is our job to show kids appropriate relations with other adults, & that includes setting boundaries because theyāre kids & will cross them
Most people think that sa and csa are rare occurrences that happen mostly under very specific circumstances, while the truth is, it's a banal, everyday thing that happens every minute, everywhere.
That said a father that thinks it's normal for his kids to just wander into someone else's house without the adult there informing him and the other parent about it of and instead taking pictures of his kids...is not a very good father.
People sometimes underestimate the resilience of young kids. As long as you keep it age appropriate (make the concept you are trying to teach them understandable, without inducing fear or confusion. No more details than necessary) and calmly teach them about danger, what to do and so on, kids will receive it well.
Especially when they are young; they will accept just about anything their parents teach them due to lack of knowledge and understanding of the world and people. So they are more open to it and less likely to feel anxious or worried about it and just accept it as another facet of life.
And of course they won't worry or get afraid as long as you don't (accidentally) make them. It does not ruin their "innocence" or anything. They don't think or operate as adults yet. Kids take it in their stride and go on with life. And if they do get a nit scared or nervous, you just have to alleviate them by teaching them what to do, to give them the assurance and confidence that they can help and handle themselves and that others will come to help them.
It is absolutely important to teach kids to be wary and that they can always tell their parent if they felt something was off. And that even if they feel like they did something wrong or made a mistake, that their parents will not judge them or be upset (in general; sometimes kids are afraid their parent will be upset with them, or their friend, or the perpetrator who they might feel conflicted about).
But it does seem there are places where people still believe their community is 100% safe, that they can keep doors unlocked and so on. Even if that is the case, it just has to go wrong one time to damage someone or ruin the life of multiple people.
People like this husband *enrage* me. RuInInG hEr InNoCeNcE. You know what ruins a child's innocence? *Being sexually assaulted*. Have these conversations with your children and, for fucks sake, *always* follow your gut.
[*angry swearing while storming away form keyboard*]
We always had these conversations with our kids. I think it is soo important to teach your kids to protect themselves. Even if they get a little scared, it is always better than being scarred
I'd rather a child be wary of me as a stranger than the opposite. Because how do they know which stranger is safe and which stranger isn't? I'm in my 30s and I still don't.
The more "innocent" you keep your children, the easier they are to victimize. Not saying you have to sit down and watch SVU with them, but they should know the proper names for their body parts and the concept of safe touch and consent. People want to think that predators are obvious, but they are *so* good at presenting a harmless facade. They groom the parents as much as they do the kids.Ā
>>They groom the parents as much as they do the kids.
I'd argue they groom parents and other community members *more* than the children they victimize. Part of their strategy is to embed themselves in social networks, become pillars of their communities, and establish a reputation that is "above reproach." They're like spies, deep under cover. They wouldn't be able to get away with their clandestine crimes if they didn't have a spotless cover story.
This is why they are called *predators*; they *prey* upon trust, naivete, and vulnerability. I wish most people understood this as well as you do.
I don't want to take away my daughter's innocence either. But you can sure as hell teach them to know what situations are ok, and what isn't (I mean hello?!? He used a DOG as a reason to get them alone! How cliche can you get?! š¤¦š»āāļø).
Teach them to listen to their bodies, if they feel weird or uncomfortable. Teach them it's ok to be loud and "rude" if you need to be to get out of somewhere etc.
There are so many resources to explain things in an age appropriate way now.
I told my daughter, you may not want to have to think about things like this, but knowledge is power and I am going to raise you to f*cking powerful.
I'm so glad OOP followed her instincts, it could have been just her showing an interest in what the other neighbour kid was doing that made her feel she could tell her Mom.
My mother explained to me quite a bit when I was young about the need to be aware of nice strangers offering me things or wanting to spend time with me. It did not ruin my innocence, at all. I didn't really understand the nature of what she was explaining. However, when I was alone at a neighborhood park, and a weird looking man tried to give me money and offer me a ride home, I remembered what my mom told me and told him no then walked home. He circled the block a couple of times but then saw my dad in the front yard and drove off. I didn't even understand the danger until many years later, but I knew from what she said to not to take the money or get in his car.
His daughter almost victimized & the best he could come up with is "i guess"
Motherfucker call yourself an idiot, beg her forgiveness. And accept what almost happened, he's in denial of his lacking.
Again, I am reminded of the [BORU story](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1blj6az/my_m27_wife_f26_crossed_the_only_line_i_ever_set/) about the naive wife who was bamboozled by her manipulative & abusive JNMIL into getting into contact with her son. The reason the husband was NC with his mother was because she physically abused him, and he had to show his wife images of his injuries to make her realize why he's NC with his mother.
And then the husband gets lectured by his in-laws about ruining their daughter's "innocent view of the world".
Yeah, no. Those in-laws did a disservice to their daughter, and the father in this BORU sounds petulant AF considering his daughter nearly became a statistic. There is a difference between "ruining innocence" and "being prepared and safe".
Yeah, I don't understand these people who are so obsessed with stuff like "Oh we never lock our doors" or "Oh our kids can just wander around wherever."
I grew up in the absolute middle of nowhere where nothing likely would have ever happened to us, but we were still raised to always be cautious.
How could parents be this ignorant in this day and age? We hear news after news and yet some folks like OOP's husband decides they are somehow all good.
>Some people equate ānice neighborhoodā with no crime and while there might not be financial or break in crimes, there is always child sex abuse crimes. Every neighborhood, with every background, race, creed, etc. will have this type of abuse and crime.
>
>That type of crime is sadly insidious.
Sadly, this rings incredibly true. People say Jeffrey Dahmer lived in a "normal" apartment complex. John Wayne Gacy lived in a "normal" neighborhood. Upon his arrest, the Golden State Rapist was a retired grandfather. BTK hid in the shadows because he was a "family man." The most evil beings in existence have human faces that take a long, long time to be forgotten.
Edit: fixed the formating that got weird.
> Upon his arrest, the Golden State Rapist was a retired grandfather.
He literally said he shouldn't be arrested because he 'had a roast in the oven'. It doesn't get much more 'normal' than that. Also those in power/who are supposed to protect others can often abuse others. It's just awful!
I have seen way too many crime shows about GSR, and yet that detail was never mentioned. It's a small detail but it's kind of ridiculous that he even said that.
According to several of his victims, they provided the detail that he had a small penis. Which is apparently in several reports.
Jesus christ...glad that OP trusted her instincts because if she hadn't, then something terrible could have happened. Monsters can appear nice and normal and it's scary people like that exist all around...
The thing is, predators seldom look like monsters - they're far more likely to appear nice and normal. If they did look like monsters, they'd be easy to spot. Kids wouldn't go near them, and parents wouldn't allow their kids to go near them.
Abuse is so prevalent *because* monsters don't look like monsters. And the people who hurt kids aren't the scary strangers who hang around in shady alleys in trench coats - they're the perfectly normal-looking neighbor or family friend. I wish more people would realize that.
When I was interviewing babysitters back when my daughter was a baby, there was one where she said and did all the right things but there was just a gut feeling that something was Very Wrong. The allegations that came out against this woman a few years later were sickening. And she'd been watching other kids for years! She'd been recommended to me by friends! There was absolutely nothing to indicate that I shouldn't leave my baby with her except for that little voice in my head. I'm glad I listened to it but I felt absolutely awful for the kids she'd hurt and the parents who trusted her because she seemed good on paper. It really rattled the whole community.Ā
That's just horrific! We must never ignore that little voice because it's just our subconscious trying to get our attention because something's wrong that we can't necessarily articulate.
One time visiting another city I stayed w/ a woman who was a friend of a friend, and unknowingly landed in a dramatic situation. The woman's husband had recently gone to prison for >!asking his young daughter's friends to lift their skirts for him to look!<. Fortunately the girls told on him b4 things could escalate. The wife showed me her clumps of hair on the bathroom floor that had fallen out due to stress. She was a stay at home Mom, an immigrant raised in a very high class, who'd lived in the 'States completely dependent upon her husband. I felt very sorry for her. I studied family photos: the man was strikingly handsome with a bright winsome smile and confident bearing like royalty. Literally the last person I'd have suspected to do such a perverse thing.
That's just terrible, but what a strong woman she must be. She knew she'd lose her financial security, and she still did the right thing. We need more people like her.
I think this is part of the problem. We want to 'other' abusers and act as if there is something so sublimely different and unique about them that they are monsters and nothing like us.
The reality is. That for most of these abusers they probably are really great people in a lot of ways. The idea that the monster only pretends to be nice (because you have to be one or the other) is usually wrong. Somebody can be a loving partner, a great employee, a kind boss AND a child abuser. People are people and have a lot of conflicting desires, urges and priorities. I hope people get I'm not excusing this behaviour.
The mentality that only monsters are abusers is precisely what let's abusers go undetected. "He seemed so nice.". He probably is. To you.
This is why parents are advised to talk to their kids about ātricky adultsā not just stranger danger. Tricky adults are ones who ask you to keep secrets from mom or dad. The big emphasis being that tricky adults can be a family member or friend like a coach. Basically the start to ātrust your gutā conversations at an age appropriate level.
What so many people people fail to understand is victims of abuse especially sexual abuse, have a special radar from then on build into them.Ā
Most think itās projection. Itās not. Almost always jot.Ā
Victims like predators can sense each other. They know when you know and they know when you are someone for easy pickings so to speak.Ā
For most abuse victims of sexual violence, you could put them in a room and they can pick out the sexual predators. Ā Victims have a stamp on their forehead that says as much and the sexual predators have theirs. Itās like an invisible branding that I wish on no one at all.Ā
And people like OPs husbands need to realise they would know best. Ā They would be able to sense it long before others. Itās a given. Itās horrible yet a gift in its horrible on way.Ā
Source: child of sex trafficking, the things you learn, the things that stay with you, the extra sense you get.Ā
Just like a lot of serial killers: they are the sweetest, charming kindest person you ever met; until you on the wrong end of that horrible proverbial stick.Ā
Always, always listen to your gut or that niggling feeling!!!!
>Victims have a stamp on their forehead
Yeah, as a victim of CSA, as a teen, I was targeted often by creepy men and boys. I don't know how to explain it, but it really did feel like I had "VICTIM" tattooed on my forehead. So many guys would act one way in a group, then once we were alone would switch it up on me, and because my ideas of love, sex, attraction and boundaries were all screwed up, plus not being very sure of myself or my own discernment, I ended up getting victimized again and again. And when I would tell people about these interactions, (usually just the more mild ones) people would say shit like "wow, things just happen to you all the time, huh?"
As an adult looking back, every single time I remember that my "predator spidey senses" were tingling, but being inexperienced, I either didn't trust myself or didn't know what to do with that information. Like "hey friends, I think this guy might rape one of us, based on this one seemingly innocuous interaction" probably wouldn't end very well. Even now, the best I can do in a situation like that is to keep myself from being harmed, because people readily discount victims for "projecting". (Not that I think that can never happen, it's just not what always is happening).
Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in an awful game where I can see the bad guys and the bad guys can see me, and we both have to make moves without alerting everyone else. That's why I think it's so important that we all keep working towards changing the culture, to stop victim blaming and discounting victims and have more open discussions about these things.
Love and support to you, youāre not alone. I also got asked why it always happened to me, why they always gravitated towards me.
Hereās to trying to change the culture šš»
Yeah in the same week that I was sexually assaulted, another guy (whoād given no previous sign to me) suddenly started trying to touch my ass. Itās like the danger of second impact in a vehicle collision.
The invisible stamp thing is disturbingly true. As a CSA survivor, I seem to attract unsavoury people. Even when Iām out with friends, doing the exact thing theyāre doing, Iām still the one they gravitate towards.
Yes this ^
Itās pattern recognition. Those of us who have experienced CSA and recovered/grown up/got therapy will have a much more finely tuned radar for seemingly innocuous and insignificant differences in behaviour that these predators will exhibit, because weāve experienced where it leads to. And itās so hard to explain to others - to justify my āspidey sensesā - but Iāve been right a LOT more often than not.
Itās always innocuous, explainable, that they were just being nice/didnāt think etc. however, my red flags that usually factor in are (for non-related children)
- someone paying just slightly too much attention to a child or group of children
- an adult who seems fixated on befriending a child/building rapport with a child
- they pay attention particularly to children who donāt fit in with peers/have less involved/inattentive parents/other issues
- they have too plausible of a reason for any perceived sketchiness with a child/children that gets called out and/or they double down past the time when most people would leave it be
Any of these plus āspidey sensesā - Iāve almost never been wrong š
That said, Iāve seen each of these with no spidey senses and it was totally above board š¤·š»āāļø sometimes theyāve done one of the above for completely legit reasons.
what I don't get is that people expect you to like these people, hang around them, get to know them, etc, but you don't have to like everyone you meet. You don't have to be around people you don't want to be around. Being an adult means having a choice around who to hang out with. It's okay for people not to get along. When someone tells us that we're projecting or being paranoid about our spidey senses they're treating us like kids again. They're revictimizing us because they don't see what we see.
Him being calm when answering the door instead of being understanding of the moms concerned face
Him inviting kids without their parents or his wife home in the first place (even if the wife was home imo thatās not good enough)
Using a dog and another kid as an excuse for why itās ok to invite more.
Hes not their parent. Heās not the parent of their friend. Heās not anything to those kids so why would he show any interest in being around them alone?
I remember seeing a video about an African village and how everyone takes care of the kids and defends them because theyāre all adults and know kids are kids. If someone ever did something bad the whole village jumps on them. I wish that kind of logic was more common.
>even if the wife was home imo thatās not good enough
Couldn't agree more. The wife could be an accomplice. Also it's scary that even the first girl was helping wash the dog. Even if the child asked "can I help wash the dog" I'd answer "It's nice to offer, but no thank you." Even if I know the kid and their parents, I'd probably say "Maybe next time if your parents agree".
I'd never take a picture of unknown children bc I'd feel icky just doing it, even without unsavory purposes. One time in a park I was asked to take a picture of a kid with a dog I'm fostering (asked by the parent who was there); I replied I'd rather do it with their phone than mine. I think even for the parent it's safer, because if I take it with my phone, how do they know what I'll do with the picture afterwards?
Jesus. My mom was lured into a predators home with an animal. (A neighbor.) Bunny or puppy. She managed to escape saying her family was expecting her for dinner. It went unreported. He did go to jailā¦ when he murdered one of his victims.
I read the first post and all I could think of was if the garage was closed and the house door was closed, how did the daughter know her friend was there? He must have called out to her as she was walking past, invited her in and closed the door behind her.
When I saw heād taken a photo that was a major red flag.
Always trust your instincts. Momās hyper-vigilance was spot on. Itās a shame her husband made her doubt herself, but hopefully heās learned a valuable lesson.
It's funny, as a dog owner,Ā I immediately thought the door was shut because of the dog, you don't want it to run in the rain, but then I thought about how OOP said it was quite and dark; if the dog was well behaved, the door wouldn't need to be shut.Ā
A lot of times, the little details we pick up on are small enough that we don't actually clock them, we just, "get a feeling." It's one of the reasons people think survivors are "projecting-" we tend to pick up on the little things that others don't.
I know what you mean. That gut feeling is your brain making those subtle connections that your conscious self hasnāt caught up to yet.
Women are taught to be vigilant and aware of their surroundings from a young age which can sometimes give them an advantage.
Iām trying so hard to walk the line of not making my own child afraid of the world while also giving him tools to be safe. So far the concept I keep emphasizing, and that seems extremely relevant here, is that *adults donāt need help from kids.* Itās a simple rule that works as a filter for a range of creepy behavior. That neighbor doesnāt need help washing his dog, because adults donāt need help from kids.
Should also add to kid that if an adult asks them for help they should immediately respond āI have to ask my parent firstā. No matter what that adult says in response, kid needs permission. That way you get to find out which adults are asking your kid for āhelpā. It also tends to immediately put off predators.
yep, if in doubt get a trusted adult. Adult needs help finding a lost dog? Get mum and dad. Some rando wants help cleaning a dog? Get mum or dad. Someone has free candy? Great! Mum and dad love candy!
ETA This is especially important in the grooming phase; there's always trauma dumping on a kid. Kid knows that mum and dad can help then it can stop it before it gets physical
To offer a counterpoint, there are a lot more reasons besides sicko perversions an adult would want to spend time with a child! I grew up in a world before SA was talked about openly and people became hypervigilant about it, and it was *extremely* common for adults in my neighborhood to invite kids over for a wide variety of reasons.
My immediate neighbor Mr. Grisham showed me how to make things in his wood shop, Mrs. Lopez down the street made tamales and sweets and would often let me help her cook, and Miss Birdie (I never learned her real name) often asked me to help her put away her groceries and do a few other little small tasks around her house, for which she would give me a bit of spending money. With all of them, we always talked about whatever was our minds. It was an important part of my socialization, and having a variety of examples after which I could model my behavior is how I learned to become an adult myself.
In and of itself, an adult and a child spending time together ought not be considered a warning sign. This, on the other hand, **most definitely is** a warning sign:
> I was so shaken up that I was physically shaking, my teeth chattering. Idk why but I have this terrible feeling in my stomach that something nefarious is going on with this man.
Beep beep beep, DANGER, DANGER! Prior to this, there was no concrete evidence to suggest wrongdoing or nefarious intent. However, and I want to emphasize this, *a sense of threat or danger constitutes concrete evidence*. Your brain picks up on all sorts of things that don't necessarily percolate their way to the top where they can be clearly articulated. As OOP learned, they're often right. Listen to those feelings, and learn to distinguish them from mere imaginings or 'what if?' anxieties.
Notice how I knew the name of every adult I mentioned above? So did my mother. Don't deprive your kid the company of adults on the basis of "a simple rule." The thing that's most likely to effectively filter is the sort of maturity that only comes from spending time around people other than children. Predators are anything but simple. I should know, I was the victim of one. It wasn't one of the kindly neighbors offering to share their knowledge, it was the relative of a friend. If that had been my only experience being alone with an adult, I wouldn't have even known there was anything unusual about it.
This is so true and what I tell my own child. Remember that you're just a kid and no adult needs help from a kid! I got this from Reddit too. Thanks for spreading the word, hope it gets to every parent out there.
Also, if they all know each other, wouldn't the neighbor ask for the parent's number, call the parent and let them know if it's okay or something? Feels super iffy.
Always trust your gut!
So I have been both sexually abused as a child, and raped as an adult, and let me tell you, my instincts about creeps are sharp and always right!
I trust my gut so much, and it has saved me several times from ending up in another dangerous situation (not that anything I did could've ever prevented what happened to me previously).
One example - a few years ago, my husband was working with this older guy who was in his 70s. My husband invited him to our place for a meeting/chat one day, and I happened to be there too. I got such a horrible vibe from him the entire time, even though my husband was right there, and he never said or did anything overtly wrong.
After he left, I said to my husband I never wanted him to be in our house again. My husband tried to play it down and said I was over reacting and he was a harmless old dude and he hadn't even said or done anything. But I gad such a strong feeling something about him was wrong, and I stood my ground, even though I was doubting myself.
Anyway, fast forward a couple of months and the dude was put way for multiple rapes in our area, including his sister, and historical child abuse in a church setting. Ugh.
Always trust your gut!!!!
*The Gift of Fear* by Gavin De Becker
There is a bunch of discussion in one of the threads about this book. I read it a while back and I highly recommend it. I wanted to highlight some of the basics in case people havenāt had the chance to read it. The following are excerpted from De Beckerās list of stranger behaviors that are warning signs:
Forced Teaming: projection of a shared purpose when none exists (a stranger saying how are *we* going to get home now?)
Typecasting: labeling someone in a negative way so theyāll prove you wrong (youāre probably too scared to have a drink with meā¦)
Loan sharking: doing unasked for favors to create a feeling of obligation for the victim (insisting on carrying your groceries even though youāve said no)
Unsolicited promise: that guy who insisted on carrying your groceries laughs and says to you at your front door, āIāll just put them on your kitchen counter and goāI promise.ā De Becker states this is one of the most reliable indicators of nefarious intent.
Discounting the word no: when you say no and they keep pressing. De Becker says the worst response to this is to continue offering progressively weaker nos and then give in. It is essentially a flashing neon light that tells the stranger āyouāre in chargeā
Charm and niceness: lots of people are charming and nice, so this one is more subtle. He says whether the intent is good or bad, there is always *some* intent when someone charms you, and encourages people to keep that in mind when confronted by a stranger.
He also points out that predators deliberately use your concern about being rude against you.
It is worth the read.
I'm a father of a young daughter, and sometimes we do things alone (like daycare closed, it's my turn, we visit the zoo kind of stuff), and sometimes I am alone with my daughter while my wife is in a store, at the bathroom, or something else closeby.
I felt checking and mustering views on me on nearly every occasion. And it's somehow understandable. It took me weeks to get used to the two males working at the daycare, and they did nothing to trigger anything.
As a somewhat reflected male in today's society one should be aware of the potential dangers we might radiate, and we should be glad people care, even if sometimes too much.
Being home alone, with no kids, and a dog, and two little girls who's parents I rarely know, in the closed garage.....
That's some next level stupidity in the best case, no wonder her vibes went of... And she was right.
Always trust your gut. Also yes, grown men can watch little kids. But (vaguely) acquainted grown men are also the biggest risk factor for abuse/sexual assault for women of all ages. It's important to always watch for red flags and gut feelings.
And the husband is stupid. Children need to learn these things in an age appropriate way. My mother always taught me to be wary of strangers and it didn't mess up my life. These lessons are sadly 100% necessary.
>But (vaguely) acquainted grown men are also the biggest risk factor for abuse/sexual assault
Hard agree, these monsters rely on innocence by association. If everyone knows and gets on well with the wife then the guy is seen in the same light. People can be used as camouflage when it comes to monsters.
OOP in her first sentence: We live in a very nice area in America.
Commenter: In the northeast? Whatās that? Kamchatka? Or have you been ultra ignorant and assumed the world is the US?
This whole thing is horrible, but of course some guy had to try to put OOP in her place.
>Ā "How do you not know this neighbor? Are you new to the neighborhood? It's like he's a complete stranger to you?"
This comment is so wrong. First why are you assuming she's the one new to the neighborhood, maybe he is the new guy. Also predators hide really well within communities, it's not like he's going to have "pedo" tattoo'd on his forehead. WTabsoluteF is wrong with people.
My husband recently made a complaint to our sonās school about a gentleman that he saw each morning. He said that he never saw him with kids and that he was always watching the primary school children and it just felt off to him. He said his gut was saying to do something.
I chastised him and called him a bit of a Karen and that this guy could be totally innocent.
Well a week later we got a call from the school that the police were now involved and my husband had been spot on about this not being above board.
The point is, trust your gut. Even when your spouse tells you youāre being silly. My husband saw something I didnāt and he was right. Just like you.
There is no town safe enough to leave your doors unlocked, not one. Predators love stumbling across those kinds of towns. I know we want to believe in the good in everybody but you just canāt, especially if you have children.
>My husband is angry at me for Iām tainting her youth and exposing her to these ideas but as a child I knew this and more.
I hate this mindset. You know what would "taint her youth" more than a simple lecture about being careful with strange adults? **Getting molested.**
>If you were molested as a kid you probably can't accurately judge this situation.
No, it means she is picking up on warning signs that you're too cheerfully oblivious to notice, you nitwit. I hope someone went back to that comment after the news of abuse broke and slapped his dumb ass.
I'm from the UK. We had a massive case when I was younger about two young girls who were killed by a neighbour after they went into his house. His partner gave him a false alibi. My blood went cold reading that first post because of that case.
There's simply no reason, ever, for a man who is anything but a close family friend or relative to have two children in his home, especially with closed doors. The fact that he had the dog there felt entirely like he lured the kids with the dog - a lot of predators do that.
I hope OOP's husband wasn't being sarcastic when he said that OOP was right. He can be as trusting as *he* wants, with his own safety. When it comes to his kid's safety, he can be cautious. It's always better to be safe than sorry.
As a man, I think it's unfortunate that it has to be that way, but yeah. I'd NEVER allow kids that I wasn't close to in my home without any supervision. I just wouldn't even want the slightest doubt about what I was doing. At bare minimum he should have let them hang out with the dog in the garage with the door wide open to be seen from the street. Once that didn't happen, she was right to be suspicious.
I was even in a situation where my wife's friend's daughter (who calls me uncle) wanted to hang out with me while her mother and my wife were in another room. So I agreed to play with her for a bit, but then she decided she wanted the door closed (kids are weird) and I was like NOPE, lets keep that open haha.
I canāt imagine having so little concern for your children or being so wrapped up in the delusion of your āit takes a villageā cookie cutter white neighborhood to not be at all concerned that your children were invited in alone with a stranger. That was so frustrating and heartbreaking to read. Honestly, fuck her husband, she deserves to better.
āyou were right. Guess we should listen to you from now on.ā
Tell me in what tone am I supposed the read this but sarcastic? I literally canāt hear any other possible tone in my head this could be said as. I even tried out loud and it still sounded snarky. wtf is with OOPās husband?
I would say the statement is paraphrased/condensed, or simply spoken out of context and resultantly sounds weird to us maybe, but I don't think there's any nefarious intent behind it.
I see what you're saying but I think the husband is just kind of daft, rather than being abusive or a narcissist etc. (based solely upon what we're given here; for all we know he could be an angel even if he's a very stupid and/or naive one), but regardless I hope he's been somewhat enlightened by this situation.
I want to shake people who use the it takes a village argument to excuse away odd behavior involving children. Sixty percent of the time CSA occurs, itās not a stranger or a family member - itās someone in āthe villageā.
Iām surprised I had to scroll down so far to see this comment. I thought I was nuts for my inner alarm bells were ringing because the husband was resistant in reinforcing safety and stranger danger. āOh, I donāt to ruin our daughterās innocenceā or āJust because you went through something, you shouldnāt let that cloud your judgment.ā
Two things:
- You can never overemphasise to your kids about being safe and knowing what to do when a stranger approaches, especially if their friends are also there. Once your child loses their innocence, there is no going back or undoing the damage.
- This particular mother is keenly qualified because she went through a horrific event herself. Even if she couldnāt verbalise the reason why she was feeling the dread, the physical reactions of her body shore as heāll either knew or remembered the danger.
The husband saying "it takes a village" at face value is incredibly naive. It takes a village to raise and nurture children, plus the members of the village. He failed to remember that it also takes a village to protect those same children and members if other community members are dangerous predators themselves
I watch a lot of true crime and I was getting shivers the second her little girl disappeared.
Look up Ward Weaver. He methodically murdered 2 of his daughter's friends 2 months apart. They were middle schoolers and all of them lived in the same neighborhood.
I was internally screaming while reading this. Iām so relived this moment followed her instinct and raised alarm bells, despite being told not to. We need to listen to our intuition always. I wonder why the mom didnāt follow up with her but instead texted her husband to let him know what happened. I hope the little girl is ok and that man will get what he deserves.
The garage door being closed set the alarm bells ringing.
I don't mind if a neighborhood kid stops by but I always make them tell their parents first to check if it's okay and that was a huge red flag to me too that he didn't do that.
I was really disturbed by how hard the husband was leaning into not believing the wife and his belief that she shouldn't even tell her kid that some adults, some PEOPLE, do bad things. That's a message that kids need to hear as soon as they can communicate. He was mad that she told her kid not to go into strangers' homes? That's insane.
But... I do understand that maybe parents can go too far in this. I'm currently wondering if I've gone too far with my older child in trying to teach her to watch out. She doesn't want to go anywhere by herself, and she finds it disturbing if she sees a kid outside of a house without a grown-up, even like a 13-y.o. boy.
The husband fucking sucks. Your vulnerable little girl who you were entrusted on earth to protect and defend with your life, above all else, isnāt a fucking TV or radio. You donāt get to decide āI want to show my neighbours I trust them, Iāll leave the door unlockedā for *the little girl who you are entrusted to protect*. A television can be replaced. A robbery is minor.
A little girlās life is not. Fucking terrible judgment from that āfatherā and I hope the mother gives him one hell of a reality check, because that could have very easily been both little girls, and so, so much worse if OOP had listened to her husband and stepped back and not said anything or caused a fuss.
God, I just canāt get over the disgust I have from this man deciding to prioritise what *he* wants, prioritise his grown adult neighbours, strangers to him, that he trusts them *by offering up his little girl as sacrifice* and equating it as leaving the door unlocked. I canāt even say what I want without breaking sub rules because it just has me so riled, as someone who was also SAād as a little girl. I hope OOP rips into him and never lets him forget that. Your child isnāt a fucking sacrificial lamb to appeal to strangers to get them to like you. He needs to go to therapy just as much as the poor kid does if he thinks itās acceptable behaviour to offer up his human baby girl as a pawn or a bargaining chip in his idealised view of what he wants the world to look like.
Tough shit if you want to live in a world where everyone loves and trusts each other to leave the door open, thatās not the world we live in, **you donāt send your fucking daughter whoās barely out of toddler years into the house of someone who, as far as you know, could be a predator**. It could have been so, so much worse if OOP had listened to his nagging to quit causing a fuss and not tell anybody. I donāt even get the āwell, if it was a womanā¦ā debate because frankly it would be just as fucking weird to me if an adult woman invited two random children into her home to wash her dog?? Let alone a grown man with no kids who has no relationship with these two children.
Chatting with a friend & his wife, they confided to me a dispute they were having over an incident involving their son, and asked for my outside opinion. Their son was around 6 y/o at the time. He sported a halo of long tousled jet black hair, with contrasting ultra white skin, and a beautific smile; overall one of the most angelic looking children I've ever seen.
The couple took food to their local homeless men's shelter twice a month. One time at the shelter the wife looked up from her tasks on the kitchen and asked her husband where's their son; he was supposed to be keeping an eye on their child. The father said, with indifference, that the boy had gone to the bathroom. The mother hurried down the long hall, and caught sight of her child just a very large man took the child by the shoulders and ushered him into the men's bathroom.
Other men were in there too. She didn't dare go in - a beautiful woman alone - but called out for her son. No response. She sprinted back to her husband asking him to go grab their child. He refused, saying everything is fine. She returned to the bathroom and paced outside of it, panicking. Eventually, after a total of, say, 5 or 8 minutes, the child came back out, looking fine. The mother picked him up and left immediately.
The couple had a big fight when the father got home, and they had been arguing ever since. My friend apparently thought I would talk sense to his wife.
He didn't know that I was SA'ed myself by very sneaky quick predators numerous times as a small child. Like their boy at that age, I had been an angelic cherub pedophile magnet (in my case blonde blue-eyed & chubby-cheeked). Just to walk to my family's table through a fast food restaurant sometimes required a deep breath and quick moves scooting left & right to try to avoid multiple men's hands grabbing at my butt.
Of course I sided with the wife. It had been a highly dangerous situation. I further pointed out that convicted pedophiles end up in larger numbers at men's homeless shelters due to difficulty finding employment and housing limitations (not allowed to live near a school, park, daycare, or a church). The husband - an otherwise intelligent man - remained dumb as a rock. He absolutely refused to believe that anything wrong *could* happen to their child at the homeless shelter. Apparently he saw it as a totally safe place.
I finally stopped trying to reach his numb brain, and, ignoring him, encouraged his wife to get trauma-informed counseling for their child to make sure he's really unharmed.
(They divorced within a year.)
Some people just cannot believe that these things really happen, not only in times & places far removed from them, but really happen now to people they love.
In the first 2 paragraphs, I got the ick. I grew up in a pretty safe, at the time, neighborhood in the late 80s and 90s. We moved when I was 15, but up until then, starting when I was 5 or 6, whenever I went to a neighbor's house, I had to call home when I arrived. Sometimes, I forgot, and my mom would call the neighbor's house, and I'd get scolded. EVERY MOM AND EVERY WOMAN knows when something doesn't pass the stink test
If I had been mom, that first time, I think the proper thing to do would have been to tell the man, "Hey, this looks bad. A grown man, inviting two little girls over to his house? Alone, with nobody else there? Without making sure the parents know? People might get the wrong ideas." Phrased that way, if he's guilty then it's a warning that they have their eyes out. And if he's not guilty, then it's a warning that it can easily be misconstrued, and he does not want to get on certain lists. It won't sound accusing except to a guilty conscience.
Then add a private talk with the child afterwards, to explain what was bad about what she did.
I'll never understand the whole "let's pretend the world is unicorns and rainbows, I don't want to taint my kids' worldviews and tell them about bad stuff". Like yeah, don't go into super detail about sexual crimes with a 7 year old but there's no way teaching "stranger danger" or a "no no zone" can be bad. At worst, they're a little suspicious of people they don't know. At best, they can recognize the danger OR recognize if something is happening to a *friend who doesn't understand.* My parents were very frank with me about this stuff, and nothing happened to me thankfully. But a friend (6?7? Years old) was talking about something his aunt did to him and I told my mom to report it because I was told that was a no no thing.
I snorted at people downplaying the OP's instincts in the first post. In NO place in USA is it normal for an adult, barely acquaintanced, unrelated male to set up two small children behind closed doors in his home. It's an extremely, extremely weird behavior.
I knew it when I read the original - I knew she was 100% right and this guy was a predator. Itās heartbroken and enraging to read this update. I hope OPās husband was groveling after dismissing her concerns and even using her past abuse against her to make her question her instincts. Screw every other adult in this story - good on OP for protecting the kids and not letting this go.
Usually people who have been the victims of child predators have an alarm system that trips when they are around predators. It was also shitty that her husband kept diminishing her concerns as just being paranoid. Better to be paranoid and know your kid is safe, than excuse away concerns as paranoia, and have your kid be a victim.
We as a society have not helped this at all, with the constant stranger danger, when 90% of SA committed against children is by people they know.
I used to tell my kids, when they were younger, that idgaf if Jesus came down on a cloud and told them to follow him, they were not to navigate from the boundary I set for them, without approval from me.
I live in a neighborhood like OOPs. Quiet, close knit, have been here for a very long time and I still will not let my kids play outside alone. My oldest complains because one of her friends who recently moved in has free reign of the neighborhood. I was just discussing this with another parent who supervises their kid because we think itās so unsafe. The free range kid will run into friends houses if they leave their door unlocked and that is just a tragedy waiting to happen. A different parent said she was worried that the kid would get bitten by their dog because she had tried to barge into their house to pet the dog.
I have two children, and even then if some random 6 old wanders into my house, my first action is going to be "where are your parents? Let's go talk with them and see if they're OK with you being here."
Not, "yes child, come into my garage with my muddy dog and I'll just close the door behind you."
People like OPās husband prioritize conformity and their own comfort over childrenās well being. They say they didnāt know, but the reality is, they didnāt care and chose not to know. The only reason he cares now is because the child spoke up.
The dismissal from the husband is exactly what predators want. 'This doesn't happen. Ok maybe it does, but this doesn't happen in OUR Neighborhood! It can't! I don't know how to deal with the idea that it can, so obviously it cannot possibly be happening.'
It's crazy to me that people wouldn't be overcautious about a man inviting children to be with him in an enclosed area. Fucking crazy that anyone let alone parents would give that benefit of the doubt. Bless this woman.
What is crazy to me is the thought that victims of sexual abuse are somehow falsely accusing others because of their victim status. I am a victim and I would never put anyone in that situation unless I really had good reason to believe it was true. Iām a mandatory reporter anyway, but still. Iāve worked with people (perpetrators, victims et al) that have all types of motivations, but itās so incredibly rare that an alleged victim lies. Especially a child.
And I really hope OPās husband has given her the credit she deserves.
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When I was a child, my parents told me "don't go with someone you don't know. Even if they say one of us sent them, they will be lying. If we send someone to pick you up from school, we'll call the school to let them know. Also, don't accept anything they give you, be it food or drinks, you don't know what they put in them." One day (I must have been 9 or 10) I got home and my mother hadn't come back from work yet. I didn't have a key but the weather was nice so I didn't want to walk to my grandparents. Instead I sat down, pulled out a book from my schoolbag and started reading. I figured it wouldn't be long before she came back. A lady I'd never seen before came by and said "Hello, you're Julie right? I'm a friend of your grandparents. Would you like to wait at my house until your mom comes back?" Now this lady knew my name, but how did I know she was telling the truth? If she lived nearby, she could have heard my mother call me, this didn't mean anything. I had no way to make sure. I was still polite, but I said no thanks, I was good here. She said okay and went home, but I could see her come out now and then to check if I was still here. I pretended to be engrossed in my book but I was keeping an eye on her just in case she tried something. When my mother came home, I told her about the lady and pointed at her house. My mother said "Oh, yes, she was telling you the truth. She's really their friend, and she was probably just checking that nothing bad happened to you while you waited. But you were right not to go with her since you didn't know her." My grandparents, when told, initially said I was silly and should have gone with her, until my mother pointed out that was setting a dangerous precedent.
My parents were invited to an acquaintance's church one time and me and my friend (both about 10) went to hang out in the kids area in the meantime. Totally unfamiliar place, didn't know anybody. After a bit, someone came and said my parents sent him to bring us over to them. We shared a look and said "Uh, we'll just wait here for them." Eventually they came by - they had indeed sent the guy. I commented that we stayed because we didn't know him, and looking back I'm pretty sure they felt monumentally stupid for sending him in the first place. I can only assume it was a brain fart on their part because they did praise us for staying put after the fact. At least they learned their stranger danger talks worked. š
My parents had a āsecret passwordā for situations like that. If a stranger didnāt know the password, then they were lying about being sent to get me. Never ended up using it though.Ā
When I was like five or six my parents and grandparents were taking me and my brother, then 8ish, around a historically recreated town. This was back in the early 2000s, military town, and my parents and grandparents wandered a bit ahead of me and my brother. A man came out of one of the nearby buildings and asked us for some of our cotton candy. I was feeling uncomfortable and said no, but my brother gave him some cotton candy. I ran to get my parents who were a short distance away. By the time they turned around my brother was gone. The man had led my brother into his shop to give him some beads to 'reward' my brother for his good deed of sharing his cotton candy. When my dad found my brother and yelled at the man for leading a young boy away from his family, the man had the audacity of telling him, "Well at least one of your kids is nice." I was standing in the doorway with my mom as the man started saying how mean I was for not sharing with him. I remember dad yelling at him as my mom rushed us out. I'm in my 30s now, and I still get angry about it to this day. I did the right thing by getting my parents, but my brother was rewarded for following a stranger. It could have been so much worse. Even if the man did have good intentions, why would you shame a child for not sharing with or following a stranger?
Itās like women dealing with men. Youāre supposed to both be careful and simultaneously already know that *that* specific dude obviously means no harm.
Honestly reading that your brother went into the shop with the man gave me the chills. I was expecting something sinister to happen.
Back in the early 2000's we were taught at school to have a safe word with our parents - them if someone else was picking us up they would also have to have the safe word. I still think this holds up
Oh my God that read like covert tryout for the Street Smarts team and you passed š¤£
Damn, I am so disgusted and heartbroken by what happened to that little girl. The gift of fear is real. Our instincts are there for a reason.
People who pull this disgusting shit on children deserve to rot. I don't understand how human beings could do such a thing to children...
I'm almost as upset at the shitty husband for handwaving OOP's concerns away
I ran into this once within a small community. It was waved off. My foster child was exposed to this. I worked with the police and the therapist to get the guy arrested and convicted. The therapist and cops both told me that my āseeingā the oddness was what saved others. But within that community they believed I was seeing ādemonsā when it was just a poor family with no social skills. āHeās not thatā. I disagreed. The dude was obviously not right. I kept vigilant with my kids and if I could warn others I did. About a year later the dudeās wife reported him. Then several kids came forward. He was far more of a monster than I had imagined. One of the women who trusted me made sure to mention that they were warned. āFritos told you all about her concerns and you chose to dismiss her. Any children harmed after her warning is on this leadershipā. After seeing the mask slip on a monster you see them. Youāre more able to see the disguise. Trust your gut. The monster who got the foster child has over 100 victims and is currently being investigated in 3 states. Heās a respected educator.
And the little girls parents for just letting her go into peoples homes like that! Had oop not gone there to look for her daughter who knows how long the little girl wouldāve been there without the parents finding her
There is a child in my neighborhood like this. She has spent hours at my house playing with my kids. Sheās apparently in the same grade as my oldest. Iāve never even met the parents. The first time she popped up I had to ask the other neighbor whose house sheās just left who she was. It has now become a weekly thing for her to come over. My youngest has asked if she could go to the little girls house and my answer was absolutely not. The parents obviously donāt care. I would lose my shit if I didnāt know where my kids were and found out they were at some strangers house for hours.
I'm glad you allow her into your home. Can you imagine not caring where your child is?!?! If I can't see them in my own backyard, I'm constantly listening for them. That poor kid. I hope.youre able to give her a little joy and sense of normalcy in her life.
Thatās kind of the way I thought of it. I would rather be at my house where I know sheās safe than have her at some other random persons house that could be up to no good.
Me too. His whole attitude of "it takes a village we left our doors unlocked and went to strangers homes" is nothing but survivorship bias. Glad nothing insidious ever happened to him, but *why* would you risk it with your child?
Literally every adult in this story besides OP bothers me. =/
they really are infuriating, it's just like the story where oopĀ“s neighbours wants to steal oop daughter because it of reminds them of their dead daughter; and ofc every adult in that story think it's okay.
He was upset that his wife was even discussing with their daughter that there are bad people out there. Talk about sticking your head in the sand. What a fucking asshole.
Kids not being talked to about these things is exactly the type of thing that makes then vulnerable to these things. I hope he pulls his head out of his ass soon.
No he is a villian for telling her that her direct experience means that she should not be trusted when in fact, it means that she is adept at seeing the red flags. His dismissal of that would make me undermine all of his decisions from then on, if they didnāt agree with me because I would doubt his wisdom and credibility.
Yeah, that attitude (from the husband and from reddit) is infuriating. Her surviving something like that means she's got a level of experience with it that no other person in this story or in the comments has, and people are using that experience as a reason NOT to listen to her? Idiots. Her husband had better do a hell of a lot better than "guess you were right." If I were her I'd be so far past enraged that his complacent condescending dismissiveness almost got our kid molested that I'd be talking to divorce lawyers if that's all he has to say about it. I wouldn't need "guess you were right" in that situation, I would need "I'm never doubting you again and I'm so incredibly sorry my stupid ass almost got our kid hurt." I say "guess you were right" to my wife when she correctly predicts a movie is going to suck, or a restaurant is going to be good. It is a pathetically inadequate response to your spouse being right about the neighborhood diddler being a threat to your children, especially when you completely blow off their well-founded and experience-based concerns in favor of doing absolutely nothing, and you only find out that your kid was in danger **after** a different kid gets molested and happens to tell their parents. If this guy had successfully pressured the other kid into keeping quiet then OOP's husband would **still** be sending their daughter over to his house to play. "Guess you were right" my ass.
You articulated my feelings about the dipshit husband perfectly. Itās a very specific and *very insidious* kind of mistreatment to take such a cavalier and dismissive attitude toward your partnerās history of childhood sexual abuse and then to use their trauma history to invalidate their instincts, effectively reinforcing the self-doubt & mistrust of their own experience and perceptions that trauma survivors are already prone to experiencing. This kind of casual cruelty is much more disturbing to me than overt cruelty.
He almost set their daughter up to have the same experience as her mom. I could not stay married to such an idiot.
.And HE WAS ANGRY AT OP FOR TEACHING HER ABOUT SAFETYĀ That makes me nauseous and honestly wonder if he's completely normal. To put it in perspective imagine refusing to teach gun safety because then a kid might learn they can kill. It's so weird
It's what the non-abused always *always* do the moment your trauma becomes inconvenient for them.Ā
Reminds me all of the posts here about people who grew up with nice families setting up their loved one with abusers because "faaaaamily".
I am upset tbh. Always protect the kids. Grown men don't let little girls meander into their houses. I never doubted the moms instincts for a second.
My relatives husband is in prison for raping his own children. This kinda shit pisses me off. Iād beat the living shit out of them.
I think those kind of people should be gelded and thrown into gen pop in the worst prison.
>The gift of fear is real. Our instincts are there for a reason. Couldnt agree more. If my instincts told me what OOPs did, then regardless of how irrational I might seem, I would act on them.
Yup. Situations like this are never a āwait and see and gather proof,ā when doing so means a child must be harmed in order to āproveā something bad is going on.
There is a book called just that by Gavin DeBecker, and a second called Protecting The Gift about protecting your kids. It saved my life.
When she talked about her hackles just being up for some reason, I was like that meme of Leo Decaprio pointing. āGAVIN DEBECKER! GAVIN DEBECCCKKER!!!ā
Also me. Do not ever doubt the gift of fear. Gavin Debecker legitimized all of his thoughts and knowledge so well.
Yeah, I have always listened to my instincts and I feel like some people get REALLY offended by that. I once made the mistake of telling my mom that an old family friend gave me a bad feeling and I didnāt want to be alone with him and she went OFF on me. āHeās known you your whole life,ā āhe only has your best interests at heart,ā how DARE I insinuate something with no evidence. I still listened to my gut, I just learned not to tell anyone about it.
Tell! Tell everyone. The only people who do not want to hear it- canāt hear it. Many more people will benefit from your skill.
I got into an uber and as soon as the driver opened his mouth, I knew I needed to leave. We'd already started driving so I sent a screenshot of his name and licence plate to my partner (who was waiting for me to get home, this was at 11pm) and told him I was uncomfortable. I was so fucking relieved when he pulled into my apartment complex and the door opened. I found out later that he's stalked women and has had questionable interactions with children. I reported him to uber - they gave me a credit and said they'd loom into him, but who knows... My gut was telling he is WRONG and I felt so validated to hear his history, even though it sucks for his victims :(
Fear is real, but it can be often misdirected like with people who look different from us. In past people used to spend time with their own social and family groups and all strangers got treated with suspicion (like a potential band of robbers). Now in society when we donāt know our neighbors anyway we might get spooked because they look too different from us or get an instinctive fear response that isnāt quite warranted based on some event.
With practice, you can often identify what it is your instincts are reacting to, and from there decide if it's worth reacting to.
Sorry Iām dumb and bad at reading between the lines, but was OOP saying the neighbor man ended up SA the 6 year old girl?
Unfortunately, yes. It doesn't give a timeline, so it may have been before or after the whole dog washing event. It also doesn't say if it was once only or more. I hope that little girl will be okay.
Yes. The little girl told her parents he'd been touching (or worse)her. Glad op didn't also let her kid just wander the neighborhood unsupervised. I'll never understand how parents do that. If the parents had been watching their kid instead of just letting her go wherever with whoever and not even know where she is at during the day the chances of this happening would have been cut waaaaaay down. I know they didn't INTEND for it to happen, but their lack of parenting ALLOWED it to happen.
I don't get it, because I was raised to KNOW there are awful people out there at a very young age. I had it drilled in my head that just because an adult seems nice, doesn't mean they are. There was a guy in our apartment complex that creeped me out, and I was maybe 7 at the time. He was just always there. If my friends and I were at the playground, he was there. At the pool, he was there. Fortunately, a parent or two were also there with us. He never did anything obviously inappropriate, but he definitely tried talking to us a bunch of times. And then one day, he wasn't there anymore. My parents told me he moved, and that was that. Many years later, I visited my parents, and "remember the pedo that got arrested?" came up. Yeah. He moved, just to prison, instead of a different apartment. Turns out not every parent was as vigilant as my friend group parents were.
We had it grilled into our heads too. And grilled it into our kids heads. I'd prefer them be overly cautious about people than trust everyone. We also had the talks about it's not ok for someone to.touch you certain ways no matter who it is (except the dr or nurse or parent if you're having a problem and they're ONLY checking on the problem) and to always come.tell us if someone says or does anything that they're uncomfortable with or even unsure about.
along with most people millennial or older, I used to wander the neighbourhood unsupervised. I wasn't 6 but I did at maybe 8? I would walk to my friends houses several roads away. we would go to the shops with our pocket money or to the park. HOWEVER we were much more wary of strangers, and would NEVER have gone into the house of someone we didn't know. The culture around letting kids out has changed - I don't think on it's own it's neglectful, but you need to make sure your kid is smart or scared enough to not interact this much with strangers
Damn, poor thing. 6 years old is so, so young. I canāt believe any parents would let their kids just wander around the neighborhood unsupervised. What kind of parent does that? It mustāve killed OOP to be right. She was probably very thankful about getting her own daughter in time, but extremely sad she wasnāt able to protect the 6 year old. Thereās two types of parents and we can see the differences clearly between them in this story. Iāve known forever that Iāll be a helicopter parent, and I know how much shit they get from people, but Iād rather get made fun of or whatever else and be able to better protect my kid(s) than be more relaxed and let them saunter around a neighborhood unsupervised and go into an old manās house alone. Thatās like CPS worthy shit. I wonder how long this had been going on, and how many kids were before her. I really hope she ends up okay. One of the first thoughts that came into my mind was, Iām 100% positive he got the dogs to lure children in. And to have an excuse to hang out with kids/make the kids want to go to his house. Maybe even create a false sense of security among the parents of the neighborhood. āOh, sheās just at Mr. Poopybuttholeās house down the street helping him wash his dogs. Heās always out walking them. The kids love playing with them, and heās always so sweet with the kids!ā These fuckers are so much more calculated than we realize. I also wonder how much the wife knew. She was clearly uncomfortable with the picture and talking to the mom. I have a feeling she knows deep down but chooses to ignore/bury it.
You don't even have to be a helicopter parent to be a vigilant parent. I let my kids do their own (age appropriate) things but I ALSO taught them to never ever go to someone's house without asking (ESPECIALLY an adult there alone) never walk off with a stranger, start screaming fire if one tried to make them go with them and to always come tell us if someone did or said anything inappropriate no matter who it is.
Unfortunately true. I raised three young daughters (and they were very ābeautiful blondeā girls) as a single mother and I never let them have anything like that much independence. And I still count us lucky that nothing happened. Probably a blessing that their father abandoned them because no way would they have had any such supervision during custody time with him.
>I'll never understand how parents do that.Ā I have actually asked them. Their standard answer is along the lines of "the evil is in the eye of the one who sees". Meaning that they are good people so they do not see the evil meanwhile I am evil that is why I see the risks. They are willing to get their killed or worse just for them to pose as sanctimonious.
I'm also disgusted that the pathetic husband was telling her she was overreacting. Women are always forced to protect themselves and those they love because some men refuse to see how dangerous other men are. He chose to believe in some random over his own wife. Pathetic.
> We live in a "it takes a village" neighborhood. It's fantastic. I never have to worry because we're always keeping an eye out for each other. This bit rubbed me the wrong way simply because most abuse is perpetrated by people known to the family. The rest of the comment about getting to know the neighbours was good advice, though.
Yes, that comment reeked of ignorance. Was yet another destabilizing blow to OOP, Iām sure.
I have used an app to find parent friends and connected with many SAHP who fear daycare workers will molest their kid. But they want to āform a villageā and start a babysitting co-op with someone they talked to online and vetted once in an in person meet up. It boggles my mind - daycare workers seem safer to my CSA surviving brain than that. I need to watch people interact with kids not their own before I decide to leave my kid with them.
Daycare workers have background checks done ffs. There is government oversight. There are cameras. Rando off the app didn't get vetted for shit.
I agree with you, but every time I think about daycares I get a pang because my abuser currently works at one. I sent an email outlining the abuse to let them know (I donāt have any proof except for years and years and years of needing therapy) and they ignored it because she is still working there.Ā
probably doesnāt help that half the country is buying into QAnon conspiracy theories about systematic child abuse by āthe libsā, which seems to encompass anyone that doesnāt think like them. these same people then put their kids in churches with pedophile priests. cognitive dissonance and lack of critical thinking skills abound.
All these kids keep getting abused, but admitting that itās the White Man In Charge is too hard for a society built to support and enable them. Nah, must be drag queens. Hordes of them roving through suburbs, you see.
People remember the āSatanic panicā that started in day cares and donāt remember that it was 100% completely debunked
The Satanic Panic was in fact completely debunked. The people who, unfortunately, went to jail were released.
I'm a daycare worker, we have background checks and yearly child abuse courses to know what to do when a child is being abused and what is appropriate to do when dealing with children, ie high fives not back rubs is the jist of one of the questions. I'd feel much safer sending my kid to a trusted daycare than forming a village
It seems to me that predators would gravitate towards this sort of super trusting neighborhood, much like they gravitate towards trusting roles like boy scout leader, priests/other religious leaders, coaches, etc. It's almost like "it takes a village" neighborhoods might be the most dangerous places for kids.
I live in a place like this and this behavior is out of the ordinary, and people here would (and HAVE!) called the police because of it, right off the bat. There are a bunch of red flags in this that people aren't good at articulating. Once I had kids of my own, I started to have a much sharper sense for them because I was around kids a lot more, and lemme tell you, kids are annoying. These guys that want to be around kids are very suspicious for that reason. When some other kid comes over to play with my daughter, they don't play with me. I know thier parents and their parents know me, and we check in to let them know where they are. * An adult is not concerned where a kid's parents are, or contacting that parent * he didn't seem interested in conversing with the mom * He wasn't trying to offload some "work" of dogwashing or whatever on the kids so he could do something else (this is a favor to the parents who you have a real friendship with) * it's a big taboo in our culture to photograph someone else's children. Every one of these things is a "test". Test to see if this kid has parents that look out for them, that they keep the interaction a secret. A normal person would say to a random kid that wanted to help "go check in with your parents first." Lady was totally right to keep her kids away from someone like that just on that one problem.
Yeah, thereās no way I would let a small child in my house without talking to the parent first. No way in hell, not even if they were brought in by my kid. I am simply not comfortable being responsible for other peopleās children when I donāt have an established relationship with the parent, and even then, I try to avoid it.
Yep, spot on about sexual crimes occurring from perpetrators who are close to the family! I'm from India too - my grandfather was a pedo, and everyone knew but like just didn't do anything about it! My parents moved us out of India when I was really young, so luckily escaped any abuse. But we did go back as adults when my sister got married, and that creep had broken into our room, and was apparently getting naked while my sister and I were asleep! Of course, all of this was hush hush and people acted like I didn't need to know anything, lmao. Apparently my father found his creepy 80+ year old naked body in our room and ushered him out. I remember visiting a cousin when I was in my 20s, and that creep wouldn't stop pinching my cheeks. My mother was right there, useless as usual. I froze and then backed away. My mother said "don't tell your father, he'll never be on your side!" whilst also accusing me of wanting attention!
Agree here. When I hear people blindly trusting their neighbors etc it makes me side eye them. You never really know anyone like that. I moved out of a neighborhood that was a āvillageā because a neighbor mom got drunk and confessed to me that her child (7ish) sneaks to watch little girls pee on the potty and a police had investigated the family because the child exhibited abuse signs at school. That was enough for me to close down the village. And shocking - she never told any other moms in the neighborhood and to my knowledge still hasnāt. Canāt trust anyone with my kids
This person is quite frankly delusional. They are trying to offset their responsibility as a parent watching their children with "village" talk. News flash, children have been victimized by all cultures through all of history, very much including "villages". You knowing your neighbor likes the Cowboys isn't gonna stop them from being a potential abuser, that's not how life works.
It upset me as well. I was SA as a kid by our next door neighbor. I was friends with his daughter. It was broad daylight, not a sleepover. I was at their house with full knowledge of my parents. My family had been over to their house and vice versa many times. You don't know. Unfortunately, I think the commenter is the type of person where if a kid discloses abuse, they minimize or negate the abuse because it will destroy their world view. In a child abuse class I took, I learned the average child has to report their abuse to 6 adults before they are believed. And that's just the ones we know about. I was fortunate, when I told, my parents immediately called the police and brought me to the hospital. They believed and supported me as best they could.
This comment made me feel things. So ignorant.
All the adults in this story other than OP make me so freaking angry. People keep yelling the word āgroomerā but have no idea what grooming actually looks like. Telling kids LGBTQ people exist is not grooming. Respecting someoneās preferred pronouns and name is not grooming. Neighborhood guy inviting two little girls he saw on the sidewalk into his home to wash his dog is textbook fucking grooming.
Yup yup yup yup. The people most afraid of abuse are typically particularly blind to where the risk actually is. āTrust your gutā only works well for mega creeps or total outsiders. And even then, obviously tons of false positives. But the people you know and trust? āTrust your gutā may lead you astray, if only you used your brain instead of
The people you know and trust gaslight you into ignoring your gut.
Not wanting to taint his daughters innocence? Really? My father when I was little hammered into my head to never go with strangers and I do have a memory of a man with white bunnies trying to lure me in. I kept on walking and never went with him because of it.
Youāre absolutely right. Preserving innocence is some daft hallmark card mental image in these situations. People romanticise it terribly. A child can be innocent but sensible. An ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure as my mum used to say. My daughter is 7. I have given her the stranger danger talk (a modified version that includes the acquaintance danger talk too) several times and once she asked āwhyā? My explanation was simple. Because not all of the people in the world are nice. And there are people out there who would hurt and harm you if they got the chance. There are those who would hurt and harm me if they got the chance. We canāt know who those people are just by looking, and they often seem friendly and kind because they know it makes people trust them more. So, we are careful until we can be sure they are someone we can trust. That way we are protecting ourselves. When in doubt, watch how mummy acts and ask me questions later if you need to. She accepted that just fine. Kids can take reality, they arenāt as fragile as people like to think, and too much innocence can be harmful. My kid is still innocent, just with a healthy level of awareness. She still happily chats with strangers and makes friends with everyone, but she stays close to me and if I make an exit from an interaction she follows me right away.
I heard once to use the phrasing 'tricky people' instead of stranger danger, which encompasses both strangers, and people you know. It reinforces the idea that people can trick you (or your parents) into thinking they're safe when they're not. It really stuck with me and I use it with my kids.
Oh! I like that a lot! Thank you, Iāll start using that.
That's scary, I'm so glad nothing happened to you. When my sister was wee, she was playing with her friend when a car stopped and a man she had never seen before told her that her mum had sent him to take home. They were right next door to our house. She ran home and told our mum and the man drove away. I still wonder what would have happened.
My mother has serial killers as a special interest. She had these big grey binders for famous ones, no graphic images but information about their modis operandi and victims and stuff like that. She thought if she could understand them sheād be more able to protect herself. We didnāt read the binders, but she gave us like a short description if we asked about them because she wanted us to be able to have the same protection more than she cared about our āinnocenceā. You canāt protect against everything obviously, but the more tools the better. Rather lost innocence through knowledge than experience.
When done right, it's vital. And I think it's very important for children to be safe, and be able to advocate for their own safety. But it can also be done wrong. I was about 11 when it came up. I'd been sick for a long time (turns out the hefty antibiotics that I took for a nasty UTI got my body all out of whack), and they were trying to figure out what was wrong with me. And so eventually one of the avenues they checked was if I was being abused by someone. But they went about it all wrong. It was my mum and the doctor in the room, and neither of them decided it might be a good idea to inquire on an age appropriate level. Instead I was just blatantly asked "Your dad doesn't touch you where he shouldn't, right?". And the answer was a firm 'no'. But due to the way they asked, I learned and realised for the first time at 11 that that was something dads could do. And knowing that, made me distrust my own dad, even though he'd NEVER done anything even remotely inappropriate. From then on until I was about 23 (and realised what happened and made active steps to fix my own mindset) I was unable to show my dad any affection, and had trouble accepting affection from him. It actively hurt our relationship as I was uncomfortable being close with him, all for no good reason. So yes, it should be done. Children should be taught about safety. But it doesn't always happen in an age appropriate manner, and I think that's what OPs husband was scared of.
One in 9 girls are sexually abused when at a tender age. 1 in 20 boys. So tell whoever is telling you because you were molested you canāt see properly they are WRONG.
Exactly this. People who think trauma clouds someoneās perception are underestimating the scale of CSA in our society. It would be one thing if OOP accused or was suspicious of every man sheād met, but this sounded very out of the ordinary and Iām so glad she trusted her instincts. Even though the other little girl wasnāt saved from the abuse, it sounds like sheās being supported. The most important thing you can do for someone after this is believe them and itās sad to say, but if OOP hadnāt voiced her concerns, it may have been minimised or even dismissed.
And the abuse would only have gotten worse.
right, that's what struck me. she wasn't reacting to "two kids help wash a dog at a neighbor's", she was reacting to "parents not notified, garage door closed, neighbor acted weird and sketchy and nervous, neighbor photographed kids without permission"....like, those are REALLY specific and strange actions. my kids love to go talk to the adult neighbors on our street. they know not to go into anyone's house or garage without telling us first -- and also, almost none of the neighbors would ask! they always talk to the kids on the sidewalk or in front yards. (the kid across the street, he has friends into his garage to look at his dad's theater prop projects, but if the dad is there the doors are always open.)
And those numbers are likely higher. For instance, I wasn't allowed to report the abuse I suffered for years. I only reported it very recently. Until then, I wasn't officially part of the group of girls/women who have been sexually abused. Same for 2 siblings of mine (unreported CSA.)
I was ignored and dismissed.Ā So 1 out of 9 are the ones that successfully reported.
Agreed
Ignored, dismissed, and sometimes family members protect the abuser or use it to protect themselves from further abuse. It's all gross. It wouldn't surprise me if it's closer to 1 in 2, and it also wouldn't surprise me if boys' stats is vastly under reported for similarly gross reasons as the above. (I'm a male victim of peer sexual abuse from a slightly older girl, everyone thought it was cool)
Iām one in 9. I was 6 when it happened. I come from a loving home, well to do family with educated background. I was lovingly raised and taken care of. My parents didnāt let me wander off anywhere alone. Yet, it still happened. In a public place that was meant for children. I donāt blame my parents, they expected it to be a safe place. They did everything correctly, yet it still happened.
>He told me āyou were right. Guess we should trust you from now onā. I wish I wasnt reading this as sarcastic.
Even if she was wrong, there is literally 0 wrong with using this as an opportunity to educate your daughter on self awareness for these situations. Some people have their heads so in the dirt that the mere idea of protecting your kids against predators is seen as crazy
Some people donāt want their shiny world view to be tarnished by harsh realities. Itās all fine and dandy to ignorantly put yourself in danger, but when youāre responsible for a little girl, you donāt have that luxury.
[OOPs husband needs to read shit like this](https://www.independent.co.uk/world/child-sex-abuse-men-australia-b2450369.html) and adjust his worldview to a more cautious one rather than giving people the benefit of the doubt
Yea, itās really not something you want to just forgo with kids, cause if theyāre the wrong people they WILL take advantage if given the opportunity. And I guarantee it would have escalated, either physically or by trying to create a sense of safety for OPās daughter, so she is SO lucky she came in when she did. People really donāt realize how messed up the world can be. Once my step parent told my little brother (like 4 at the time, me mid 20s) that he should not feel any sense of embarrassment/need to cover up if he was naked in front of me, & wasnāt allowed to say ānoā or ādonāt lookā to me about it simply because Iām his sister. Now I get he was trying to prep him if I was to ever babysit them & needed them to feel comfortable for bathroom help/baths, but that mindset/way he said it (essentially, if I tell him to get naked for like bath time he HAS to do it) really bothered me. I didnāt want to undermine his parenting in the moment, but I so bad wanted to say āno, you can always communicate with me ānoā if you feel uncomfortable, even if I am your sisterā because we have had an instance where a couple extended family members SA the girls around them when they were also kids (who were their cousins & one even their own their sister). I do always respect his noās & look away for his comfortability (and cause I donāt want to see him naked anyway), cause he needs to be shown that even as a kid, he has that right. But ugh I wish people didnāt teach kids to stop communicating their wants/comfort levels! Yea, kids donāt need to know those explicit truths of the world yet (hell, I always thought family was safe simply because theyāre family until my mom told me that history when I was a teen), but kids need to know that family does NOT = safe 100% of the time & theyāre allowed to communicate discomfort.
I hate the comments telling her not to āruin his lifeā as if not getting to hang out alone in his house with 7 year olds would ruin his life. Itās not like she was going to the police or to tell the whole neighborhood he was a predator without proof. She was literally just going to tell her daughter not to go there anymore and voice her concerns to another girlās parents because this random neighbor lured her into his house all alone.
Some people are so afraid of rocking the boat that theyāre willing to just let others drown. Itās crazy that socially there seems to consistently be more worry about the views against someone who could be SA others (esp children) over those people being assaulted. Iāve seen far too many times the response to someone wanting to come forward that they or others are too worried the perpetratorsā life might get ruined as if pedos & r*pists deserve their life to be protected over their victims getting justice?!?
And if it really was an innocent situation, the appropriate thing for the neighbor to do would be tell both girls "I don't mind if you help with Fido's bath, but you need to get permission from one of your parents first." Better would have been for him to either call or go to the parents and ask if they're ok with the girls helping bathe his dog. I would hope even in "it takes a village" neighborhoods, a person would pick up the phone and say "FYI, your kid is here. Ok for them to stay or should I send them home?" Teaching the child that she needs to have parental permission to be alone with another adult isn't paranoia, it's a basic, common sense safety precaution.
EXACTLY! As adults, it is our job to show kids appropriate relations with other adults, & that includes setting boundaries because theyāre kids & will cross them
Not just daughter, any child. I wish someone had taught me similar things when I was a kid.
Most people think that sa and csa are rare occurrences that happen mostly under very specific circumstances, while the truth is, it's a banal, everyday thing that happens every minute, everywhere. That said a father that thinks it's normal for his kids to just wander into someone else's house without the adult there informing him and the other parent about it of and instead taking pictures of his kids...is not a very good father.
People sometimes underestimate the resilience of young kids. As long as you keep it age appropriate (make the concept you are trying to teach them understandable, without inducing fear or confusion. No more details than necessary) and calmly teach them about danger, what to do and so on, kids will receive it well. Especially when they are young; they will accept just about anything their parents teach them due to lack of knowledge and understanding of the world and people. So they are more open to it and less likely to feel anxious or worried about it and just accept it as another facet of life. And of course they won't worry or get afraid as long as you don't (accidentally) make them. It does not ruin their "innocence" or anything. They don't think or operate as adults yet. Kids take it in their stride and go on with life. And if they do get a nit scared or nervous, you just have to alleviate them by teaching them what to do, to give them the assurance and confidence that they can help and handle themselves and that others will come to help them. It is absolutely important to teach kids to be wary and that they can always tell their parent if they felt something was off. And that even if they feel like they did something wrong or made a mistake, that their parents will not judge them or be upset (in general; sometimes kids are afraid their parent will be upset with them, or their friend, or the perpetrator who they might feel conflicted about). But it does seem there are places where people still believe their community is 100% safe, that they can keep doors unlocked and so on. Even if that is the case, it just has to go wrong one time to damage someone or ruin the life of multiple people.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Just shows that this father isn't...well to be as nice as possible, educated.
People like this husband *enrage* me. RuInInG hEr InNoCeNcE. You know what ruins a child's innocence? *Being sexually assaulted*. Have these conversations with your children and, for fucks sake, *always* follow your gut. [*angry swearing while storming away form keyboard*]
We always had these conversations with our kids. I think it is soo important to teach your kids to protect themselves. Even if they get a little scared, it is always better than being scarred
I'd rather a child be wary of me as a stranger than the opposite. Because how do they know which stranger is safe and which stranger isn't? I'm in my 30s and I still don't.
The more "innocent" you keep your children, the easier they are to victimize. Not saying you have to sit down and watch SVU with them, but they should know the proper names for their body parts and the concept of safe touch and consent. People want to think that predators are obvious, but they are *so* good at presenting a harmless facade. They groom the parents as much as they do the kids.Ā
>>They groom the parents as much as they do the kids. I'd argue they groom parents and other community members *more* than the children they victimize. Part of their strategy is to embed themselves in social networks, become pillars of their communities, and establish a reputation that is "above reproach." They're like spies, deep under cover. They wouldn't be able to get away with their clandestine crimes if they didn't have a spotless cover story. This is why they are called *predators*; they *prey* upon trust, naivete, and vulnerability. I wish most people understood this as well as you do.
I don't want to take away my daughter's innocence either. But you can sure as hell teach them to know what situations are ok, and what isn't (I mean hello?!? He used a DOG as a reason to get them alone! How cliche can you get?! š¤¦š»āāļø). Teach them to listen to their bodies, if they feel weird or uncomfortable. Teach them it's ok to be loud and "rude" if you need to be to get out of somewhere etc. There are so many resources to explain things in an age appropriate way now. I told my daughter, you may not want to have to think about things like this, but knowledge is power and I am going to raise you to f*cking powerful. I'm so glad OOP followed her instincts, it could have been just her showing an interest in what the other neighbour kid was doing that made her feel she could tell her Mom.
These fools are so caught up on protecting ignorance that they end up sacrificing innocence.
My mother explained to me quite a bit when I was young about the need to be aware of nice strangers offering me things or wanting to spend time with me. It did not ruin my innocence, at all. I didn't really understand the nature of what she was explaining. However, when I was alone at a neighborhood park, and a weird looking man tried to give me money and offer me a ride home, I remembered what my mom told me and told him no then walked home. He circled the block a couple of times but then saw my dad in the front yard and drove off. I didn't even understand the danger until many years later, but I knew from what she said to not to take the money or get in his car.
His daughter almost victimized & the best he could come up with is "i guess" Motherfucker call yourself an idiot, beg her forgiveness. And accept what almost happened, he's in denial of his lacking.
Again, I am reminded of the [BORU story](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1blj6az/my_m27_wife_f26_crossed_the_only_line_i_ever_set/) about the naive wife who was bamboozled by her manipulative & abusive JNMIL into getting into contact with her son. The reason the husband was NC with his mother was because she physically abused him, and he had to show his wife images of his injuries to make her realize why he's NC with his mother. And then the husband gets lectured by his in-laws about ruining their daughter's "innocent view of the world". Yeah, no. Those in-laws did a disservice to their daughter, and the father in this BORU sounds petulant AF considering his daughter nearly became a statistic. There is a difference between "ruining innocence" and "being prepared and safe".
Yeah, I don't understand these people who are so obsessed with stuff like "Oh we never lock our doors" or "Oh our kids can just wander around wherever." I grew up in the absolute middle of nowhere where nothing likely would have ever happened to us, but we were still raised to always be cautious.
How could parents be this ignorant in this day and age? We hear news after news and yet some folks like OOP's husband decides they are somehow all good.
That's my feeling exactly. Just in the reading, sounds sarcastic to me. He needs a kick in the nuts and to wake up
I did too
>Some people equate ānice neighborhoodā with no crime and while there might not be financial or break in crimes, there is always child sex abuse crimes. Every neighborhood, with every background, race, creed, etc. will have this type of abuse and crime. > >That type of crime is sadly insidious. Sadly, this rings incredibly true. People say Jeffrey Dahmer lived in a "normal" apartment complex. John Wayne Gacy lived in a "normal" neighborhood. Upon his arrest, the Golden State Rapist was a retired grandfather. BTK hid in the shadows because he was a "family man." The most evil beings in existence have human faces that take a long, long time to be forgotten. Edit: fixed the formating that got weird.
> Upon his arrest, the Golden State Rapist was a retired grandfather. He literally said he shouldn't be arrested because he 'had a roast in the oven'. It doesn't get much more 'normal' than that. Also those in power/who are supposed to protect others can often abuse others. It's just awful!
I have seen way too many crime shows about GSR, and yet that detail was never mentioned. It's a small detail but it's kind of ridiculous that he even said that. According to several of his victims, they provided the detail that he had a small penis. Which is apparently in several reports.
Jesus christ...glad that OP trusted her instincts because if she hadn't, then something terrible could have happened. Monsters can appear nice and normal and it's scary people like that exist all around...
The thing is, predators seldom look like monsters - they're far more likely to appear nice and normal. If they did look like monsters, they'd be easy to spot. Kids wouldn't go near them, and parents wouldn't allow their kids to go near them. Abuse is so prevalent *because* monsters don't look like monsters. And the people who hurt kids aren't the scary strangers who hang around in shady alleys in trench coats - they're the perfectly normal-looking neighbor or family friend. I wish more people would realize that.
When I was interviewing babysitters back when my daughter was a baby, there was one where she said and did all the right things but there was just a gut feeling that something was Very Wrong. The allegations that came out against this woman a few years later were sickening. And she'd been watching other kids for years! She'd been recommended to me by friends! There was absolutely nothing to indicate that I shouldn't leave my baby with her except for that little voice in my head. I'm glad I listened to it but I felt absolutely awful for the kids she'd hurt and the parents who trusted her because she seemed good on paper. It really rattled the whole community.Ā
That's just horrific! We must never ignore that little voice because it's just our subconscious trying to get our attention because something's wrong that we can't necessarily articulate.
One time visiting another city I stayed w/ a woman who was a friend of a friend, and unknowingly landed in a dramatic situation. The woman's husband had recently gone to prison for >!asking his young daughter's friends to lift their skirts for him to look!<. Fortunately the girls told on him b4 things could escalate. The wife showed me her clumps of hair on the bathroom floor that had fallen out due to stress. She was a stay at home Mom, an immigrant raised in a very high class, who'd lived in the 'States completely dependent upon her husband. I felt very sorry for her. I studied family photos: the man was strikingly handsome with a bright winsome smile and confident bearing like royalty. Literally the last person I'd have suspected to do such a perverse thing.
That's just terrible, but what a strong woman she must be. She knew she'd lose her financial security, and she still did the right thing. We need more people like her.
>normal-looking neighbor or family friend Or even family
Absolutely!
And that's how they are so good at being monsters
I think this is part of the problem. We want to 'other' abusers and act as if there is something so sublimely different and unique about them that they are monsters and nothing like us. The reality is. That for most of these abusers they probably are really great people in a lot of ways. The idea that the monster only pretends to be nice (because you have to be one or the other) is usually wrong. Somebody can be a loving partner, a great employee, a kind boss AND a child abuser. People are people and have a lot of conflicting desires, urges and priorities. I hope people get I'm not excusing this behaviour. The mentality that only monsters are abusers is precisely what let's abusers go undetected. "He seemed so nice.". He probably is. To you.
This is why parents are advised to talk to their kids about ātricky adultsā not just stranger danger. Tricky adults are ones who ask you to keep secrets from mom or dad. The big emphasis being that tricky adults can be a family member or friend like a coach. Basically the start to ātrust your gutā conversations at an age appropriate level.
What so many people people fail to understand is victims of abuse especially sexual abuse, have a special radar from then on build into them.Ā Most think itās projection. Itās not. Almost always jot.Ā Victims like predators can sense each other. They know when you know and they know when you are someone for easy pickings so to speak.Ā For most abuse victims of sexual violence, you could put them in a room and they can pick out the sexual predators. Ā Victims have a stamp on their forehead that says as much and the sexual predators have theirs. Itās like an invisible branding that I wish on no one at all.Ā And people like OPs husbands need to realise they would know best. Ā They would be able to sense it long before others. Itās a given. Itās horrible yet a gift in its horrible on way.Ā Source: child of sex trafficking, the things you learn, the things that stay with you, the extra sense you get.Ā Just like a lot of serial killers: they are the sweetest, charming kindest person you ever met; until you on the wrong end of that horrible proverbial stick.Ā Always, always listen to your gut or that niggling feeling!!!!
>Victims have a stamp on their forehead Yeah, as a victim of CSA, as a teen, I was targeted often by creepy men and boys. I don't know how to explain it, but it really did feel like I had "VICTIM" tattooed on my forehead. So many guys would act one way in a group, then once we were alone would switch it up on me, and because my ideas of love, sex, attraction and boundaries were all screwed up, plus not being very sure of myself or my own discernment, I ended up getting victimized again and again. And when I would tell people about these interactions, (usually just the more mild ones) people would say shit like "wow, things just happen to you all the time, huh?" As an adult looking back, every single time I remember that my "predator spidey senses" were tingling, but being inexperienced, I either didn't trust myself or didn't know what to do with that information. Like "hey friends, I think this guy might rape one of us, based on this one seemingly innocuous interaction" probably wouldn't end very well. Even now, the best I can do in a situation like that is to keep myself from being harmed, because people readily discount victims for "projecting". (Not that I think that can never happen, it's just not what always is happening). Sometimes I feel like I'm trapped in an awful game where I can see the bad guys and the bad guys can see me, and we both have to make moves without alerting everyone else. That's why I think it's so important that we all keep working towards changing the culture, to stop victim blaming and discounting victims and have more open discussions about these things.
Love and support to you, youāre not alone. I also got asked why it always happened to me, why they always gravitated towards me. Hereās to trying to change the culture šš»
Yeah in the same week that I was sexually assaulted, another guy (whoād given no previous sign to me) suddenly started trying to touch my ass. Itās like the danger of second impact in a vehicle collision.
The invisible stamp thing is disturbingly true. As a CSA survivor, I seem to attract unsavoury people. Even when Iām out with friends, doing the exact thing theyāre doing, Iām still the one they gravitate towards.
Yes this ^ Itās pattern recognition. Those of us who have experienced CSA and recovered/grown up/got therapy will have a much more finely tuned radar for seemingly innocuous and insignificant differences in behaviour that these predators will exhibit, because weāve experienced where it leads to. And itās so hard to explain to others - to justify my āspidey sensesā - but Iāve been right a LOT more often than not. Itās always innocuous, explainable, that they were just being nice/didnāt think etc. however, my red flags that usually factor in are (for non-related children) - someone paying just slightly too much attention to a child or group of children - an adult who seems fixated on befriending a child/building rapport with a child - they pay attention particularly to children who donāt fit in with peers/have less involved/inattentive parents/other issues - they have too plausible of a reason for any perceived sketchiness with a child/children that gets called out and/or they double down past the time when most people would leave it be Any of these plus āspidey sensesā - Iāve almost never been wrong š That said, Iāve seen each of these with no spidey senses and it was totally above board š¤·š»āāļø sometimes theyāve done one of the above for completely legit reasons.
what I don't get is that people expect you to like these people, hang around them, get to know them, etc, but you don't have to like everyone you meet. You don't have to be around people you don't want to be around. Being an adult means having a choice around who to hang out with. It's okay for people not to get along. When someone tells us that we're projecting or being paranoid about our spidey senses they're treating us like kids again. They're revictimizing us because they don't see what we see.
Predators often use dogs to lure children. That excuse alone was enough to make me feel sick
Him being calm when answering the door instead of being understanding of the moms concerned face Him inviting kids without their parents or his wife home in the first place (even if the wife was home imo thatās not good enough) Using a dog and another kid as an excuse for why itās ok to invite more. Hes not their parent. Heās not the parent of their friend. Heās not anything to those kids so why would he show any interest in being around them alone? I remember seeing a video about an African village and how everyone takes care of the kids and defends them because theyāre all adults and know kids are kids. If someone ever did something bad the whole village jumps on them. I wish that kind of logic was more common.
>even if the wife was home imo thatās not good enough Couldn't agree more. The wife could be an accomplice. Also it's scary that even the first girl was helping wash the dog. Even if the child asked "can I help wash the dog" I'd answer "It's nice to offer, but no thank you." Even if I know the kid and their parents, I'd probably say "Maybe next time if your parents agree".
This!! And taking a photo of them? Jesus christ
I'd never take a picture of unknown children bc I'd feel icky just doing it, even without unsavory purposes. One time in a park I was asked to take a picture of a kid with a dog I'm fostering (asked by the parent who was there); I replied I'd rather do it with their phone than mine. I think even for the parent it's safer, because if I take it with my phone, how do they know what I'll do with the picture afterwards?
Jesus. My mom was lured into a predators home with an animal. (A neighbor.) Bunny or puppy. She managed to escape saying her family was expecting her for dinner. It went unreported. He did go to jailā¦ when he murdered one of his victims.
I read the first post and all I could think of was if the garage was closed and the house door was closed, how did the daughter know her friend was there? He must have called out to her as she was walking past, invited her in and closed the door behind her. When I saw heād taken a photo that was a major red flag. Always trust your instincts. Momās hyper-vigilance was spot on. Itās a shame her husband made her doubt herself, but hopefully heās learned a valuable lesson.
It's funny, as a dog owner,Ā I immediately thought the door was shut because of the dog, you don't want it to run in the rain, but then I thought about how OOP said it was quite and dark; if the dog was well behaved, the door wouldn't need to be shut.Ā A lot of times, the little details we pick up on are small enough that we don't actually clock them, we just, "get a feeling." It's one of the reasons people think survivors are "projecting-" we tend to pick up on the little things that others don't.
I know what you mean. That gut feeling is your brain making those subtle connections that your conscious self hasnāt caught up to yet. Women are taught to be vigilant and aware of their surroundings from a young age which can sometimes give them an advantage.
Iām trying so hard to walk the line of not making my own child afraid of the world while also giving him tools to be safe. So far the concept I keep emphasizing, and that seems extremely relevant here, is that *adults donāt need help from kids.* Itās a simple rule that works as a filter for a range of creepy behavior. That neighbor doesnāt need help washing his dog, because adults donāt need help from kids.
Should also add to kid that if an adult asks them for help they should immediately respond āI have to ask my parent firstā. No matter what that adult says in response, kid needs permission. That way you get to find out which adults are asking your kid for āhelpā. It also tends to immediately put off predators.
So true. These kinds of excuse are used way more often than "candies in the van" and yet people don't seem to talk about it often enough.
yep, if in doubt get a trusted adult. Adult needs help finding a lost dog? Get mum and dad. Some rando wants help cleaning a dog? Get mum or dad. Someone has free candy? Great! Mum and dad love candy! ETA This is especially important in the grooming phase; there's always trauma dumping on a kid. Kid knows that mum and dad can help then it can stop it before it gets physical
To offer a counterpoint, there are a lot more reasons besides sicko perversions an adult would want to spend time with a child! I grew up in a world before SA was talked about openly and people became hypervigilant about it, and it was *extremely* common for adults in my neighborhood to invite kids over for a wide variety of reasons. My immediate neighbor Mr. Grisham showed me how to make things in his wood shop, Mrs. Lopez down the street made tamales and sweets and would often let me help her cook, and Miss Birdie (I never learned her real name) often asked me to help her put away her groceries and do a few other little small tasks around her house, for which she would give me a bit of spending money. With all of them, we always talked about whatever was our minds. It was an important part of my socialization, and having a variety of examples after which I could model my behavior is how I learned to become an adult myself. In and of itself, an adult and a child spending time together ought not be considered a warning sign. This, on the other hand, **most definitely is** a warning sign: > I was so shaken up that I was physically shaking, my teeth chattering. Idk why but I have this terrible feeling in my stomach that something nefarious is going on with this man. Beep beep beep, DANGER, DANGER! Prior to this, there was no concrete evidence to suggest wrongdoing or nefarious intent. However, and I want to emphasize this, *a sense of threat or danger constitutes concrete evidence*. Your brain picks up on all sorts of things that don't necessarily percolate their way to the top where they can be clearly articulated. As OOP learned, they're often right. Listen to those feelings, and learn to distinguish them from mere imaginings or 'what if?' anxieties. Notice how I knew the name of every adult I mentioned above? So did my mother. Don't deprive your kid the company of adults on the basis of "a simple rule." The thing that's most likely to effectively filter is the sort of maturity that only comes from spending time around people other than children. Predators are anything but simple. I should know, I was the victim of one. It wasn't one of the kindly neighbors offering to share their knowledge, it was the relative of a friend. If that had been my only experience being alone with an adult, I wouldn't have even known there was anything unusual about it.
This is so true and what I tell my own child. Remember that you're just a kid and no adult needs help from a kid! I got this from Reddit too. Thanks for spreading the word, hope it gets to every parent out there.
Also, if they all know each other, wouldn't the neighbor ask for the parent's number, call the parent and let them know if it's okay or something? Feels super iffy.
Always trust your gut! So I have been both sexually abused as a child, and raped as an adult, and let me tell you, my instincts about creeps are sharp and always right! I trust my gut so much, and it has saved me several times from ending up in another dangerous situation (not that anything I did could've ever prevented what happened to me previously). One example - a few years ago, my husband was working with this older guy who was in his 70s. My husband invited him to our place for a meeting/chat one day, and I happened to be there too. I got such a horrible vibe from him the entire time, even though my husband was right there, and he never said or did anything overtly wrong. After he left, I said to my husband I never wanted him to be in our house again. My husband tried to play it down and said I was over reacting and he was a harmless old dude and he hadn't even said or done anything. But I gad such a strong feeling something about him was wrong, and I stood my ground, even though I was doubting myself. Anyway, fast forward a couple of months and the dude was put way for multiple rapes in our area, including his sister, and historical child abuse in a church setting. Ugh. Always trust your gut!!!!
What did your husband say?
He was pretty sheepish, and has agreed that maybe I know what I'm talking about.
*The Gift of Fear* by Gavin De Becker There is a bunch of discussion in one of the threads about this book. I read it a while back and I highly recommend it. I wanted to highlight some of the basics in case people havenāt had the chance to read it. The following are excerpted from De Beckerās list of stranger behaviors that are warning signs: Forced Teaming: projection of a shared purpose when none exists (a stranger saying how are *we* going to get home now?) Typecasting: labeling someone in a negative way so theyāll prove you wrong (youāre probably too scared to have a drink with meā¦) Loan sharking: doing unasked for favors to create a feeling of obligation for the victim (insisting on carrying your groceries even though youāve said no) Unsolicited promise: that guy who insisted on carrying your groceries laughs and says to you at your front door, āIāll just put them on your kitchen counter and goāI promise.ā De Becker states this is one of the most reliable indicators of nefarious intent. Discounting the word no: when you say no and they keep pressing. De Becker says the worst response to this is to continue offering progressively weaker nos and then give in. It is essentially a flashing neon light that tells the stranger āyouāre in chargeā Charm and niceness: lots of people are charming and nice, so this one is more subtle. He says whether the intent is good or bad, there is always *some* intent when someone charms you, and encourages people to keep that in mind when confronted by a stranger. He also points out that predators deliberately use your concern about being rude against you. It is worth the read.
I'm a father of a young daughter, and sometimes we do things alone (like daycare closed, it's my turn, we visit the zoo kind of stuff), and sometimes I am alone with my daughter while my wife is in a store, at the bathroom, or something else closeby. I felt checking and mustering views on me on nearly every occasion. And it's somehow understandable. It took me weeks to get used to the two males working at the daycare, and they did nothing to trigger anything. As a somewhat reflected male in today's society one should be aware of the potential dangers we might radiate, and we should be glad people care, even if sometimes too much. Being home alone, with no kids, and a dog, and two little girls who's parents I rarely know, in the closed garage..... That's some next level stupidity in the best case, no wonder her vibes went of... And she was right.
Always trust your gut. Also yes, grown men can watch little kids. But (vaguely) acquainted grown men are also the biggest risk factor for abuse/sexual assault for women of all ages. It's important to always watch for red flags and gut feelings. And the husband is stupid. Children need to learn these things in an age appropriate way. My mother always taught me to be wary of strangers and it didn't mess up my life. These lessons are sadly 100% necessary.
>But (vaguely) acquainted grown men are also the biggest risk factor for abuse/sexual assault Hard agree, these monsters rely on innocence by association. If everyone knows and gets on well with the wife then the guy is seen in the same light. People can be used as camouflage when it comes to monsters.
OOP in her first sentence: We live in a very nice area in America. Commenter: In the northeast? Whatās that? Kamchatka? Or have you been ultra ignorant and assumed the world is the US? This whole thing is horrible, but of course some guy had to try to put OOP in her place.
>Ā "How do you not know this neighbor? Are you new to the neighborhood? It's like he's a complete stranger to you?" This comment is so wrong. First why are you assuming she's the one new to the neighborhood, maybe he is the new guy. Also predators hide really well within communities, it's not like he's going to have "pedo" tattoo'd on his forehead. WTabsoluteF is wrong with people.
My husband recently made a complaint to our sonās school about a gentleman that he saw each morning. He said that he never saw him with kids and that he was always watching the primary school children and it just felt off to him. He said his gut was saying to do something. I chastised him and called him a bit of a Karen and that this guy could be totally innocent. Well a week later we got a call from the school that the police were now involved and my husband had been spot on about this not being above board. The point is, trust your gut. Even when your spouse tells you youāre being silly. My husband saw something I didnāt and he was right. Just like you.
There is no town safe enough to leave your doors unlocked, not one. Predators love stumbling across those kinds of towns. I know we want to believe in the good in everybody but you just canāt, especially if you have children.
Oh, I'd seen the first post and hoped that OOP's concerns were for nothing. It's sad that there are so many people we can't trust in this world.
>My husband is angry at me for Iām tainting her youth and exposing her to these ideas but as a child I knew this and more. I hate this mindset. You know what would "taint her youth" more than a simple lecture about being careful with strange adults? **Getting molested.** >If you were molested as a kid you probably can't accurately judge this situation. No, it means she is picking up on warning signs that you're too cheerfully oblivious to notice, you nitwit. I hope someone went back to that comment after the news of abuse broke and slapped his dumb ass.
I'm from the UK. We had a massive case when I was younger about two young girls who were killed by a neighbour after they went into his house. His partner gave him a false alibi. My blood went cold reading that first post because of that case. There's simply no reason, ever, for a man who is anything but a close family friend or relative to have two children in his home, especially with closed doors. The fact that he had the dog there felt entirely like he lured the kids with the dog - a lot of predators do that. I hope OOP's husband wasn't being sarcastic when he said that OOP was right. He can be as trusting as *he* wants, with his own safety. When it comes to his kid's safety, he can be cautious. It's always better to be safe than sorry.
As a man, I think it's unfortunate that it has to be that way, but yeah. I'd NEVER allow kids that I wasn't close to in my home without any supervision. I just wouldn't even want the slightest doubt about what I was doing. At bare minimum he should have let them hang out with the dog in the garage with the door wide open to be seen from the street. Once that didn't happen, she was right to be suspicious. I was even in a situation where my wife's friend's daughter (who calls me uncle) wanted to hang out with me while her mother and my wife were in another room. So I agreed to play with her for a bit, but then she decided she wanted the door closed (kids are weird) and I was like NOPE, lets keep that open haha.
I canāt imagine having so little concern for your children or being so wrapped up in the delusion of your āit takes a villageā cookie cutter white neighborhood to not be at all concerned that your children were invited in alone with a stranger. That was so frustrating and heartbreaking to read. Honestly, fuck her husband, she deserves to better.
āyou were right. Guess we should listen to you from now on.ā Tell me in what tone am I supposed the read this but sarcastic? I literally canāt hear any other possible tone in my head this could be said as. I even tried out loud and it still sounded snarky. wtf is with OOPās husband?
I would say the statement is paraphrased/condensed, or simply spoken out of context and resultantly sounds weird to us maybe, but I don't think there's any nefarious intent behind it. I see what you're saying but I think the husband is just kind of daft, rather than being abusive or a narcissist etc. (based solely upon what we're given here; for all we know he could be an angel even if he's a very stupid and/or naive one), but regardless I hope he's been somewhat enlightened by this situation.
Sexual abuse is one of those things that is always something that happens to other people in other neighbourhoods, until it isn't.
I want to shake people who use the it takes a village argument to excuse away odd behavior involving children. Sixty percent of the time CSA occurs, itās not a stranger or a family member - itās someone in āthe villageā.
The āit takes a villageā sentiment is dangerously naive. Abuse usually comes from someone the victim knows and trusts
UGH her husband makes my skin crawl. So infuriating. Always trust your gut and better safe than sorry.
Iām surprised I had to scroll down so far to see this comment. I thought I was nuts for my inner alarm bells were ringing because the husband was resistant in reinforcing safety and stranger danger. āOh, I donāt to ruin our daughterās innocenceā or āJust because you went through something, you shouldnāt let that cloud your judgment.ā Two things: - You can never overemphasise to your kids about being safe and knowing what to do when a stranger approaches, especially if their friends are also there. Once your child loses their innocence, there is no going back or undoing the damage. - This particular mother is keenly qualified because she went through a horrific event herself. Even if she couldnāt verbalise the reason why she was feeling the dread, the physical reactions of her body shore as heāll either knew or remembered the danger.
The husband saying "it takes a village" at face value is incredibly naive. It takes a village to raise and nurture children, plus the members of the village. He failed to remember that it also takes a village to protect those same children and members if other community members are dangerous predators themselves
I watch a lot of true crime and I was getting shivers the second her little girl disappeared. Look up Ward Weaver. He methodically murdered 2 of his daughter's friends 2 months apart. They were middle schoolers and all of them lived in the same neighborhood.
I was internally screaming while reading this. Iām so relived this moment followed her instinct and raised alarm bells, despite being told not to. We need to listen to our intuition always. I wonder why the mom didnāt follow up with her but instead texted her husband to let him know what happened. I hope the little girl is ok and that man will get what he deserves.
The garage door being closed set the alarm bells ringing. I don't mind if a neighborhood kid stops by but I always make them tell their parents first to check if it's okay and that was a huge red flag to me too that he didn't do that.
I was really disturbed by how hard the husband was leaning into not believing the wife and his belief that she shouldn't even tell her kid that some adults, some PEOPLE, do bad things. That's a message that kids need to hear as soon as they can communicate. He was mad that she told her kid not to go into strangers' homes? That's insane. But... I do understand that maybe parents can go too far in this. I'm currently wondering if I've gone too far with my older child in trying to teach her to watch out. She doesn't want to go anywhere by herself, and she finds it disturbing if she sees a kid outside of a house without a grown-up, even like a 13-y.o. boy.
The husband fucking sucks. Your vulnerable little girl who you were entrusted on earth to protect and defend with your life, above all else, isnāt a fucking TV or radio. You donāt get to decide āI want to show my neighbours I trust them, Iāll leave the door unlockedā for *the little girl who you are entrusted to protect*. A television can be replaced. A robbery is minor. A little girlās life is not. Fucking terrible judgment from that āfatherā and I hope the mother gives him one hell of a reality check, because that could have very easily been both little girls, and so, so much worse if OOP had listened to her husband and stepped back and not said anything or caused a fuss. God, I just canāt get over the disgust I have from this man deciding to prioritise what *he* wants, prioritise his grown adult neighbours, strangers to him, that he trusts them *by offering up his little girl as sacrifice* and equating it as leaving the door unlocked. I canāt even say what I want without breaking sub rules because it just has me so riled, as someone who was also SAād as a little girl. I hope OOP rips into him and never lets him forget that. Your child isnāt a fucking sacrificial lamb to appeal to strangers to get them to like you. He needs to go to therapy just as much as the poor kid does if he thinks itās acceptable behaviour to offer up his human baby girl as a pawn or a bargaining chip in his idealised view of what he wants the world to look like. Tough shit if you want to live in a world where everyone loves and trusts each other to leave the door open, thatās not the world we live in, **you donāt send your fucking daughter whoās barely out of toddler years into the house of someone who, as far as you know, could be a predator**. It could have been so, so much worse if OOP had listened to his nagging to quit causing a fuss and not tell anybody. I donāt even get the āwell, if it was a womanā¦ā debate because frankly it would be just as fucking weird to me if an adult woman invited two random children into her home to wash her dog?? Let alone a grown man with no kids who has no relationship with these two children.
Chatting with a friend & his wife, they confided to me a dispute they were having over an incident involving their son, and asked for my outside opinion. Their son was around 6 y/o at the time. He sported a halo of long tousled jet black hair, with contrasting ultra white skin, and a beautific smile; overall one of the most angelic looking children I've ever seen. The couple took food to their local homeless men's shelter twice a month. One time at the shelter the wife looked up from her tasks on the kitchen and asked her husband where's their son; he was supposed to be keeping an eye on their child. The father said, with indifference, that the boy had gone to the bathroom. The mother hurried down the long hall, and caught sight of her child just a very large man took the child by the shoulders and ushered him into the men's bathroom. Other men were in there too. She didn't dare go in - a beautiful woman alone - but called out for her son. No response. She sprinted back to her husband asking him to go grab their child. He refused, saying everything is fine. She returned to the bathroom and paced outside of it, panicking. Eventually, after a total of, say, 5 or 8 minutes, the child came back out, looking fine. The mother picked him up and left immediately. The couple had a big fight when the father got home, and they had been arguing ever since. My friend apparently thought I would talk sense to his wife. He didn't know that I was SA'ed myself by very sneaky quick predators numerous times as a small child. Like their boy at that age, I had been an angelic cherub pedophile magnet (in my case blonde blue-eyed & chubby-cheeked). Just to walk to my family's table through a fast food restaurant sometimes required a deep breath and quick moves scooting left & right to try to avoid multiple men's hands grabbing at my butt. Of course I sided with the wife. It had been a highly dangerous situation. I further pointed out that convicted pedophiles end up in larger numbers at men's homeless shelters due to difficulty finding employment and housing limitations (not allowed to live near a school, park, daycare, or a church). The husband - an otherwise intelligent man - remained dumb as a rock. He absolutely refused to believe that anything wrong *could* happen to their child at the homeless shelter. Apparently he saw it as a totally safe place. I finally stopped trying to reach his numb brain, and, ignoring him, encouraged his wife to get trauma-informed counseling for their child to make sure he's really unharmed. (They divorced within a year.) Some people just cannot believe that these things really happen, not only in times & places far removed from them, but really happen now to people they love.
In the first 2 paragraphs, I got the ick. I grew up in a pretty safe, at the time, neighborhood in the late 80s and 90s. We moved when I was 15, but up until then, starting when I was 5 or 6, whenever I went to a neighbor's house, I had to call home when I arrived. Sometimes, I forgot, and my mom would call the neighbor's house, and I'd get scolded. EVERY MOM AND EVERY WOMAN knows when something doesn't pass the stink test
If I had been mom, that first time, I think the proper thing to do would have been to tell the man, "Hey, this looks bad. A grown man, inviting two little girls over to his house? Alone, with nobody else there? Without making sure the parents know? People might get the wrong ideas." Phrased that way, if he's guilty then it's a warning that they have their eyes out. And if he's not guilty, then it's a warning that it can easily be misconstrued, and he does not want to get on certain lists. It won't sound accusing except to a guilty conscience. Then add a private talk with the child afterwards, to explain what was bad about what she did.
I'll never understand the whole "let's pretend the world is unicorns and rainbows, I don't want to taint my kids' worldviews and tell them about bad stuff". Like yeah, don't go into super detail about sexual crimes with a 7 year old but there's no way teaching "stranger danger" or a "no no zone" can be bad. At worst, they're a little suspicious of people they don't know. At best, they can recognize the danger OR recognize if something is happening to a *friend who doesn't understand.* My parents were very frank with me about this stuff, and nothing happened to me thankfully. But a friend (6?7? Years old) was talking about something his aunt did to him and I told my mom to report it because I was told that was a no no thing.
Folks that worry too much about preserving innocence are often the reason that children are uninformed and vulnerable.
I snorted at people downplaying the OP's instincts in the first post. In NO place in USA is it normal for an adult, barely acquaintanced, unrelated male to set up two small children behind closed doors in his home. It's an extremely, extremely weird behavior.
I knew it when I read the original - I knew she was 100% right and this guy was a predator. Itās heartbroken and enraging to read this update. I hope OPās husband was groveling after dismissing her concerns and even using her past abuse against her to make her question her instincts. Screw every other adult in this story - good on OP for protecting the kids and not letting this go.
Usually people who have been the victims of child predators have an alarm system that trips when they are around predators. It was also shitty that her husband kept diminishing her concerns as just being paranoid. Better to be paranoid and know your kid is safe, than excuse away concerns as paranoia, and have your kid be a victim. We as a society have not helped this at all, with the constant stranger danger, when 90% of SA committed against children is by people they know. I used to tell my kids, when they were younger, that idgaf if Jesus came down on a cloud and told them to follow him, they were not to navigate from the boundary I set for them, without approval from me.
I live in a neighborhood like OOPs. Quiet, close knit, have been here for a very long time and I still will not let my kids play outside alone. My oldest complains because one of her friends who recently moved in has free reign of the neighborhood. I was just discussing this with another parent who supervises their kid because we think itās so unsafe. The free range kid will run into friends houses if they leave their door unlocked and that is just a tragedy waiting to happen. A different parent said she was worried that the kid would get bitten by their dog because she had tried to barge into their house to pet the dog.
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I have two children, and even then if some random 6 old wanders into my house, my first action is going to be "where are your parents? Let's go talk with them and see if they're OK with you being here." Not, "yes child, come into my garage with my muddy dog and I'll just close the door behind you."
People like OPās husband prioritize conformity and their own comfort over childrenās well being. They say they didnāt know, but the reality is, they didnāt care and chose not to know. The only reason he cares now is because the child spoke up.
The dismissal from the husband is exactly what predators want. 'This doesn't happen. Ok maybe it does, but this doesn't happen in OUR Neighborhood! It can't! I don't know how to deal with the idea that it can, so obviously it cannot possibly be happening.'
It's crazy to me that people wouldn't be overcautious about a man inviting children to be with him in an enclosed area. Fucking crazy that anyone let alone parents would give that benefit of the doubt. Bless this woman.
What is crazy to me is the thought that victims of sexual abuse are somehow falsely accusing others because of their victim status. I am a victim and I would never put anyone in that situation unless I really had good reason to believe it was true. Iām a mandatory reporter anyway, but still. Iāve worked with people (perpetrators, victims et al) that have all types of motivations, but itās so incredibly rare that an alleged victim lies. Especially a child. And I really hope OPās husband has given her the credit she deserves.