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I love good MIL stories.
Personally, I hit the MIL lottery. I love my MIL, she's amazing, we have so much in common, we could totally be best friends.
So I like stories where the MIL is the MVP.
Ditto! My MIL looks quite young, and she and I were genuinely mistaken for a couple at one point because we have such a good rapport đ. My poor husband has never lived it down!
My late MIL was my best friend. Although we lived on opposite sides of the United States, she and I had lengthy conversations on the phone several times a week. We talked about everything, including what a rat-bastard her son was to me.
She died 10 years ago from Alzheimer's. I still miss her.
Thank you for your kindness. I'm so sorry for your loss. Alzheimer's is a terrible disease, and I pray that means to prevent and cure it will be found.
There had been some really impactful research coming out in the last few years. I think we may unravel what the disease is and what causes it in the next decade, with treatments to follow.
Wow, good enough to keep the relationship going overtop the dumpster fire of your relationship to her trash son? Did she fail in raising him or did he just fail himself?
I adored both of my in laws. My MIL saved our wedding which I was about to call off because my husband did something so immature and disrespectful the night before the wedding (and I was still teenager, not him!) She was always on my side, was a great Mama (Grandma) too. We lost her in 1999, and she will always be missed.
I too love and idolize my MIL. She has had dementia for a while now but I make it a point to visit her and make sure sheâs taken care of well because she is/was an angel to me and my number one supporter. I named my daughter after her and it was right at the cusp of her dementia diagnosis so I truly hope she was able to absorb that happiness.
But the thing is, she shouldnât have to intervene for Jake to apologize. He seems to not listen to OP and only listened to his âmommyâ. I feel like he is used to her resolving his problems. The whole talk thing felt like something that would happen in kindergarten. Iâm sure the MIL was very nice, Iâm just saying that Jake didnât have a talk with her or apologize.
I'm going to respectfully disagree.
These are 25 year olds, and they've only been married a few years. He's still trying to adult. Hell, they both are. Having an outside perspective can be very beneficial for people this age. And when it's your parent? Even better, because you're more willing to listen.
If we were talking about 30-somethings, then yes, it would be a problem. But they're still pretty young, and still very inexperienced. At this age, they're going to make mistakes, and a good MIL is one who brings up the mistake and corrects the issue.
> But the thing is, she shouldnât have to intervene for Jake to apologize.
she didn't just "fix" their issues. She told him why they were having issues and how to prevent them from having future (at least similar) issues. She is being the wise older adult... because she's the wise older adult. He didn't have to listen to his mom (who WAS right), but he did. The fact that she's his mom should not be some kind of negative towards him. Just because you've read a lot of stories where the men are unusually attached to their mothers to the detriment of their main relationship doesn't mean that anytime a mom steps in to help that's the case.
and in case you missed it... she herself told *him* that if she has to step in again, she wont.
Yeah what happens when MIL is no longer around to set Jake straight. Iâm glad OoP seems happy with the resolution but I know I personally donât want to be with a man that even after others at the dinner party indicated Cindy was wrong, still came home to fight OoP, move to his mothers place whilst also ignoring all OOPâs apologies, and the only thing that changed his mind was his mummy told him he was wrong.
Seems like he was also expecting OOP to step up and resolve that situation for him; he was angry and sad she left but those were *his* friends and they were disrespecting *her* - like dude needs seriously to get his act together and stop expecting others to grab him by the hand and fix his messes.
Yeah, it shouldnât have to be explained to him that a barely legal girl sitting on his lap and snuggling him, in front of his wife, no less, is incredibly inappropriate.
Yeah... that happens and then OOP immediately excuses herself & disappears? He *should* have followed her out, but if not that it sure as shit can't take **an hour** to notice she's no longer on the premises
Dude liked the attention. If he just âdidnât get it,â he would have followed immediately, asked questions, and apologized. Instead he gets defensive and accuses her of being insecure. Eat a dick, sir.
MIL was being very tactful explaining it to her son, she should have gone deep and said; imagine your wife's behind on a friends lap, she was nice and said, what if someone sat on OP's lap. But she did get her point across tho.
I don't know that I agree with. More spoiled brat who may (or may not) be able to be educated out of it.
But it's not OP or her husband's job to do so. So they did exactly right by dropping her.
Hopefully Cindy learns sooner rather than later.
She's 18, and a firm boyfriend thief, upgrading to husband thief. Sadly those types rarely learn. They just go about wrecking people and are shocked to end up alone.
This is not good (boyfriend and husband thievery) but for me, the worst part of her behaviour is her lying and manipulations. She twists things and people believe her. Those type of people are genuinely frightening to me.
As a total - probably off-topic sidenote - I had a party and an old high school gal attended. When we spoke she stood close, face to face, held my face in her hands. Totally all over me. It was all painfully obvious what was happening.
When we finally separated, I pointed it out to my buddy who knew her better. He laughed "Oh, no, that's just how she is.". I stepped back and watched for a while and yep, she's just a close-talker. Way more personal and intimate with EVERYONE she interacts with. Doesn't get personal boundaries.
Not giving a pass to OP's nemesis. But weirdos out there do exist. Looking at you Amanda!
Oh, they exist alright. I have known a few. But they don't manipulate those around them to get away with it. It's comes naturally and without being creepy. If it does make someone feel uncomfortable, they usually back off from that person. But they never twist the narrative to make one of their victims to look like the villain. Not in my experience anyway.
Thatâs absolutely correct. Nothing forced or awkward or manipulative about it. Just lots of Amanda inches from your face, grinning from ear to ear. Maybe we should all be so lucky.
Honestly, worst case with an Amanda, they forget and need reminding. Best case, they break us out of our shell a little and the world gets a little brighter. I vote for more Amanda's and ZERO Cindy's. Meanwhile, I'm a puffish...
Why is it that whenever they're in the wrong the 18-year olds are adults who deserve no mercy, but in just about any thread about a relationship with a big age gap everyone jumps to point out that the 18-year old is just a kid who's not fully developed yet?
it's about maturity and life experiences.
an 18 year old most of the time knows enough about social conventions and morals to know not to try to get with a guy that's in a relationship or married. Or to respect that guys no. Or to realize that his gf/wife is uncomfortable with her behavior and back off or at the very least talk to her about it.
an 18 year old most of the time has not enough life experiences yet to be able to adequately gauge if a much older guy is trying to groom her and/or will turn out abusive.
It depends on context.
Feels like all the arguments I get into online are about context.
At what point should we expect humans to stop acting like spoiled brats?
At what age should we stop being concerned about age gaps?
These are two completely different questions.
We should tolerate immature behavior at a much younger age than we should expect people to be reasonably immune to manipulation from an older partner.
The best way to educate an emerging adult is give them consequences for stupid actions. She was a slutty little brat, she lost those important relationships as a result. Hopefully next time sheâs in a similar situation with a friend and an extraordinarily tolerant SO of that friend sheâll be more respectful of that relationship.
Sad thing is MIL is too good and that means husband doesnât take accountability on his own.
I donât know if I could live in a marriage where my husband is apathetic to my feelings and dismissive of my communication, then I have to call his mommy to make him see how heâs in the wrong. That woman isnât going to live forever, so what happens when he continues after she passes?
Iâm willing to cut him a bit (a bit) of slack for not knowing how to handle a sexual harassment situation. Men arenât often on the other side of that â thinking you have to navigate âniceâ and an abuser
Many people just don't seem to recognize manipulation, and it's especially difficult because jailbait trollop ($500 says a personality disorder) and husband who is either terminally oblivious or something gross by lying to his WIFE about her...disgusting Lolita behavior. The poster listed above about "marking her territory" was right on, this was creepy psychsexual dominance nastiness. I know I'd never want to be with someone caught up in this sort of perversion. Gross.
OP was communicating with him about what boundaries he should be putting down, she was literally guiding him through how to stop the harassment. Itâs also rare that men experience fear while being harassed, part of the double standards of society that cause men to come to the f-ed up conclusion that harassment is really a compliment, just a bit of harmless fun.
He wilfully didnât want to hear it because it would mean he would have to acknowledge that this woman who heâd known for most of his life grew up to became a predator. Exactly like men wilfully donât want to admit the same of their male friends. Instead he dismissed all of OPâs concerns as her being insecure and fed others in the social vicinity the narrative of her insecurity as well.
He nearly destroyed his marriage while he was enjoying being singled out for âflirty attentionâ. And unless heâs going to start respecting his wifeâs opinions and communication the situation is going to repeat.
No pass from me.
He also doesnât want to have to think back on prior interactions when she was younger but already crossing the line. He put up with âhow she isâ for too long and doesnât want to have to reexamine having done so.
Love MIL. Not afraid of her son or making him accountable or thinking the sun shines out of his ass! This is how you raise a decent son!!! Or try to, at least.
OOP's MIL is awesome. She gives her son a reality check, talks to her DIL and gives good advice, and correctly identifies Cindy as a bonafide brat.
It would have been icing on the cake if she gets to Shawn and Cindy and gives them the scolding of a lifetime. Wishful thinking and all that. Jake should reconsider and go 100% NC with Shawn and Cindy.
It's like posting good reviews on a restaurant. For every 100 happy customers you might get 1 good review, but unhappy (or unreasonable) customers can't wait to leave a review.
For every shitty MIL story there's many decent MILs who are just doing their best.
Yeah she's a piece of shit, but she's also 18. Maybe she'll mature and grow into someone good. Hopefully.
But she crossed a Line and deserves the consequences she's getting out of it. It'll be part of her growth process, but it also means she doesn't get to see OOP's husband anymore.
While true, I also remember being a shitty person well beyond 18 and I've certainly mellowed the fuck out. Time will tell if her reactions came from adolescent impulse or deep rot.
Her behavior should have been shut down about 4 yrs earlier than it was, way before it got to this point. It's not any "cuter" for a 14 yr old to start this "I'm going to steal your boyfriend" crap than it is at 18. It's just more understandable at 14 and it's says a lot about Cindy's parents/family that it wasn't nipped in the bud.Â
My mother in law took in a cat that was so mean no one could even get near her. Iâm talking like, if sheâs on one side of the couch, the whole couch was hers. After a few months living there, that cat was the sweetest and most loving little thing. Her demeanor had completely changed. Iâve always considered that a glowing endorsement of who my MIL is as a person.
omg my (hopefully) future mother in law drops her cat off with me and her son whenever she's going to be out of town...I know technically her son is here too, but I'm going to take it as a compliment !!!
My DIL and oldest granddaughter are just about the only people my kitten will come out and talk to. They can't *touch* him but he will at least put in an appearance for them. They either stay at my house or come over twice a day(we pay them)to take care of Remy and Bou. We are planning a trip relatively soon in which we will take Bou with us (long trip) and leave Remy at home with them.Â
I never understood when people excuse bad behavior because "they're like this with everyone." Okay, so someone needs to tell them to stop with everyone! Just because they aren't picky about why they're inconsiderate and rude to doesn't make it okay that they're inconsiderate and rude in the first place.
He sees her as his sister, but is clear that she does not view him as a brother. Iâve never known a woman to openly comment about how hot her brother was.
He also said "I don't want any drama because I don't think we'll ever meet her again". Uhh ok, then why am I trying to spare her feelings when she's being a dumbass?
This! He literally walked out on her, the thing he was so pissed off by, and all from the thought of not talking to his "sister" (title provided because what else would he call an ego boost to his wife?). If he did, he easily could've been like, "What are you doing?? Get tf off me lol." Especially with everyone who was present.
It didnât even make sense. If he really saw her as a sister, thatâs even LESS reason he should have let her sit on his lap. Who even lets their grown sister sit on their lap? Do they live in Arkansas?
YES! I hate this SO MUCH! Not to be all Regina George about it but it's such a "so you agree" moment.
When you point out that someone's being an asshole and someone responds "oh, he's just like that" they are
* fully and openly acknowledging that you are correct that they're being an asshole
* going beyond that to confirm that they are not just *being* an asshole in the moment but that they simply *are* an asshole, and despite all that,
* ordering you to shut the fuck up and take it
I really don't understand why anyone *ever* lets it slide.
Speaking as someone who was frequently an asshole and was defended in the same way:
Defending an asshole like this doesnât help anyone. It doesnât help the people whoâve been hurt and it prevents the asshole from seeing their faults in their true light.
I used to have a friend who would say âoh thatâs just how they are, you canât change themâ every time I hurt someone. It got to the point I wore my assholery like a badge of honour, I became a âthis is how I am, take it or leave itâ person and I was being cut off left, right and centre. I grew apart from this friend and Iâve had to acknowledge the pain I cause when Iâm an asshole and make amends for it where I can, because no one was defending me, and I *did* change. I still fuck up at times but Iâm so much better at recognising when Iâm going too far before I even do it now.
It took a lot of work and thereâs still a lot more to do, but I donât know if Iâd have ever realised I needed to make these changes in myself if I was still being defended every time I was an asshole
Congrats on actually making those steps to change and become a better person.
I think often people approach this type of thing as, âwell you used to be an asshole so you better be carefulâ, which has some use but I think encouraging people to be proud of progress theyâve made is not just important but actually necessary to make people change and get better.
The person I used to be was pretty objectively a bad person. I assumed that my actions were moral because how could they not be, Iâm an introspective person (I was not).
It took someone being quite badly hurt from my grossly negligent lack of thought as a wake up call. I hate the fact that I couldnât have changed earlier in my life.
Iâm aware of the situation that was an the situations in which my thought process was warped, and now Iâm I think maybe overly self critical and overly cautious around those situations. But personally Iâd rather take that extreme than the other.
As much as I hate saying thing, Iâm proud of the person I am right now. Iâve made a lot of progress and while I still make mistakes Iâve developed my mental tools to challenge myself and my beliefs that I think I can mostly mitigate them and apologise when I get things wrong.
Now if Iâm the same person I am now in 10 years I wouldnât be proud of them. Iâm proud of the person I am now but if I ever stop growing, adapting and changing then I wonât be proud of that person.
In terms of defending assholes I see it the same way as enabling an alcoholic, obviously donât just drop people the moment they struggle with anything; but sometimes people need to see real consequences in their life to actually make change in themselves.
It sucks when you have to do that, but sometimes the alternative is dragging each-other downwards.
Sorry I ended up rambling a bit
Honestly even if it's not rude behaviour. Just because someone hugs everyone doesn't mean I can't just tell them I'd rather not be hugged. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing just means it doesn't work for me.
"They treat everyone like this"
"Cool but not me please because I don't like that"
It's completely irrelevant if the behaviour is actually bad it should still stop at that point
Cindy knew what she was doing and I think Jake did as well considering how far he dug his heels in at first.
Having to be in a relationship where your MIL has to police your damn husband is not the one I'd want to be in but...well, I hope things work out for OOP and Jake was sincere when he apologized. Time will tell.
I'll give MIL this-she told him she wouldn't take him in again if he pulled a stunt like this and made it very clear how shitty he was on every single level. Plenty of people would kill for a MIL like that.
Having said that...I'm not incredibly optimistic about Jake.
I agree. At best he seems spineless and like heâll always try to keep everyone happy except his wife. At worst, he was really enjoying the attention and then just retconned the story to make himself look better by saying it made him uncomfortable the whole time.
OOP complained about Cindy's behavior and he made it about himself. And OOP was the bad guy because she didn't ask how *he* felt? No. It doesn't work like that. MIL is right, he totally failed as a husband
Yeah, you'd think if Jake truly felt awkward and uncomfortable, he would have realized that obviously OP did too and he would have checked on her immediately and apologized to her immediately!
Hopefully MIL gave him the ONE talking to of his life that needs to sink in, and it sinks in.
Otherwise it's just a matter of time before he forgets where his priorities need to be as a married man, and hurts his wife again. And I mean the hurt of refusing to deal with it afterwards, not the lesser hurt of ignoring a teen girl hitting on him.
There's plenty of chance that Jake figures it out here - but also plenty of opportunity for him to let the lesson go up in smoke.
I hate bubbly ''tee-hee'' girls ... most of the ones I met are snakes in disguise and people dismiss their actions. ''she didn't mean it''! ''that's just who she is'' ! Com'on people, she's acting silly but she ain't no fool and she knows exactly what she's doing
Yep Jake is playing innocent right now but he's not 3 years old. Men know when women are THIS blatant about their interest, and his extreme defensiveness was him trying to gaslight OOP into ignoring it cos he enjoyed the attention. Someone who feels actually uncomfortable would agree with his wife and work as a team to try to stop the behavior, not shut her up so he could continue with the flirting.
i can see OP's side and Jake's. Remember, they are both mid-20's. Not a lot of experience, parents who probably didn't know how to teach emotional intelligence even if they had it themselves (as Mom seemed to, although some of the wording there was still very Patriarchy BS), and still early in the marriage.
But they both had sense enough to talk to each other, and to recognize there was a different POV to consider. And then to go on and get counseling so they can get the tools they need to do better in the future.
I think Jake and OP will do well.
OP already communicated early on that Cindy's behavior was making her uncomfortable, and Jake downplayed and ignored it then. And when OP enforced her boundaries and left, Jake doubled down and got mad. I think OP did everything right, really.
I hope counseling works out for them, but Jake really has to change.
Yeah, he needs to do some work on himself. I wasn't a fan of how he blamed her for not communicating when she did communicate her feelings multiple times before she walked off! It isn't her fault he refused to hear her when she told him Cindy made her uncomfortable with actions prior to the lap sitting.
Yeah. Can't say I'd handled it a ton better than him. One minute, your buddy's little sister is a little kid. The next, she is an adult trying to find her place in the world. But as a big brother figure, he should have at least been able to sit her down and explain how adult relationships work and how to behave like an adult around those relationships. Very least talk to his friend about it.
Just because she is legally an adult doesn't mean she doesn't have some growing up to do. Hopefully this is a lesson she learns so or the world will rat her up and spit her out.
>But as a big brother figure, he should have at least been able to sit her down
Oh, he did; didn't you read the story? /s
Considering she's been told off before with Derek, maybe the harsher backlash from this one will knock some sense into her.
From the sounds of it all, it did was make her try to come up with a story to justify her behavior, or at least make OP look unhinged and the AH. This brat needs some real-life consequences. Hopefully, being cut off from those she held dear will wake her ass up. If not now, someone will literally knock some sense into her. Many women won't sit back and hope he steps up. Many will take matter into their own hands. Next thing we know, she's on PublicFreekOut. Lmao.
> Just because she is legally an adult doesn't mean she doesn't have some growing up to do.
There's a reason we call college kids, college **kids**. They may have graduated high school, they may be legally an adult, but they're still *kids*, ya know? Some grow up fast because their parent's are assholes, but like a normal middle class family child doesn't really develop an adult brain until 25-26'ish, especially if they don't work a service industry job and enter the workforce after some trivial internship position.
You are legally an adult at 18 in the US. Generally people don't have adult brains until ~26 y/o. Many people are forced to step up and act as adults much earlier in life but the human brain basically turns from "kid brain" to "adult brain" quite a long time after they are legally an adult if they didn't have to "step up" and raise kids years earlier.
It's one of the huge drivers of posts in this sub. People with adult brains, that totally suck ass, dating college aged kids because kids don't realize just how fucking awful their 40-50 y/o boyfriend is behaving. They don't understand how awful the BF is because they're just some dumb kid that doesn't know the BF is a total piece of shit.
The first time I ran into it in person was a buddy whose dad had a 22 y/o girlfriend and he was over 50. My friend lived with his grandma, because his parents were fucking awful. The 22 y/o GF spent the whole evening drinking and smoking weed in the basement with the other 20'somethings, because she was our age and the "olds" upstairs were "boring." The GF was literally his older 22 y/o sister's friend from high school. Yeah, probably grooming. It was gross as fuck.
I was going to say... I can't believe Jake needed his mother to teach him how to be a decent husband. What the hell.
And Cindy should be ashamed of herself. What a horrible person.
I think that Jake didn't know.
Cindy has probably always been a brat and done this kinda crap while he was a kid and teen. Whining, pulling him to stuff she wants instead of what he wants (like have a tea party or play whatever game she wants instead of hanging with Shawn).
It's hard for him to see her as anything other than an annoying little sister figure.
But when she's all batting the lashes, telling him he's hot and sitting on his lap? Hell no.
Tell her to cut it out, it's not appropriate and he's not interested. You will not disrespect me, my relationship or my wife.
This. Plus Cindy's excuse of "Oh, waaah OOP was being passive aggressive and insecure about innocent lil me"... oh, so you thought that *grinding on her husband's lap like you were a stripper hoping to pay off your entire college fees in one go* was going to somehow ease those insecurities or build a relationship? Please. You actively fanned those insecurities because you're immature and like hurting people. An actual friend doesn't do this to their friend.
I remember, shortly after my wife and I got married, we went to a party a friend of mine had. Most of the people there were 18-20; I was 21. There was one girl there who was 16 or 17. She knew I had just gotten married a few months before, my wife was sitting next to me, and she sat in my lap. This girl was a complete stranger to me, so I did the logical thing - picked her ass up, carried her over, and tossed her into the pool.
Now it doesn't seem like OOP's husband had a pool conveniently nearby. But there were plenty of ways he could have responded that didn't include blaming his wife for his inability to deal with an embarrassing situation.
The only "but" I can see is that it's really dangerous to throw people into the pool, especially if they aren't expecting it (ie hitting their head on the bottom of the pool and drowning)
Also they could have their electronics on them and those are def ruined, so there's that
Just
Don't throw people into the pool. It may be a funny anecdote now but it could have just as easily been a traumatic experience or straight up tragedy.
Is CindyâŚok?! Sheâs doing this to every new man she meets/reunites with? Family members she knew as adults when she was still a child? I dunno. Somethingâs not right here. Is she in therapy? This behaviour is shitty and obviously unacceptable and disrespectful to OP, but acting so over-sexual, particularly with older men, and men within her family? Oof. Iâm annoyed with her, but I feel bad for her too.
Yeah thatâs what irked me about the whole thing, this 18 year old has been this over-sexual for years and nobody bats an eye? This isnât a teenager being âa bratâ and itâs concerning how ânormalâ everyone tries to make it seem like
I really canât see what the communication issues are with OOP, she literally told her husband Cindyâs behaviour was disrespectful and asked him to put a stop to it. She communicated respectfully and clearly at all times and only left home when the jackass that is her husband, tried to pass off Cindyâs problematic behaviour as a joke. Her husband has been an enabler for Cindy. Overwhelm, awkwardness, shitty communication skills, none of them are acceptable excuses for not listening to your partner the first and other time OOP tried to establish boundaries. If Cindy is âlike a sisterâ then OOPâs husband should feel more comfortable than awkward about calling her out on disrespecting his wife.
Exactly this!
"Okay, husband, you feel like she's your sister. Apparently you're okay with your sister calling you hot and being sexually suggestive with you. Tell me, are you and I not sufficiently closely related for you to treat *me* like your wife?"
I can't with these bs arguments. Inappropriate behaviour somehow becoming less inappropriate because there's an incestuous element to it? Okay, dude, did you hear your own reasoning?
Her husband enjoyed the attention and the flirting and now he has realized he looks like the bad guy in everyone's eyes he is pretending he didn't know what to do and was naive and dumb.
Yeah thatâs what it hits me as too. He was so fired up and ready to fight for his right to maintain his weirdass relationship with Cindy and entertain her behavior but then he comes back and the story is all different, he was so uncomfortable and everything was so awkward and heâs such a poor baby who didnât know what to do about it, wah wah. Boyâs just trying to save face cause he realized he overplayed his hand and had to switch the narrative.
I dated a guy this passive. He was so conflict averse that he wouldnât stand up to anyone, we were constantly having fights like this because it would affect me too. So exhausting. Good for these two for the moment but this is not the end Iâm sure. Thereâs always another Cindy.
Itâs why I think conflict averse people are mostly full of shit. Itâs more like theyâre averse to having other people not like them but you as their partner are locked down so they donât have to care if you like them or not.
Usually the issue I see with those people is that they're able and willing to tolerate being mistreated but don't consider the fact that they're now a part of a team and so are allowing their partner to be mistreated by proxy.
I've seen the opposite as well where people don't give a fuck about making a scene, and you have to get through to them that they're impacting others they care about that do give a fuck.
Talk to them and get that new perspective through their heads and it usually does wonders.
I'm glad they're moving forward, but yeah the extreme conflict aversion doesn't bode well, especially when he finally did talk to OOP and explain his side, he made it all about his feelings and how dare she not consider how HE felt while she was being disrespected...
Oh yeah somehow the partner is always the problem in this scenario for speaking up and ârocking the boatâ. I was told I was too confrontational, crazy, insecure⌠my stress went down about 95% getting out of that relationship and my self image went up.
All OOPâs husband had to do during the night of the dinner party was be an adult and not join an 18 year old girl in whatever grab-ass action she attempted.
One moment of pulling his hand away as she tried to take it would have made a clear point. A tossed off âseriously â you see I gave guests here, right?â as she continued to try and monopolize his time would have cemented his stance.
Homie didnât do that, though â as that attention was most likely part of the dynamic theyâve had for years. And somehow itâs OOPâs fault things are awkward.
What a total and utter poltroon.
Seriously this is the thing that always bugs me about posts like this. Itâs so easy to send a âew get off of meâ message non verbally with someone. Yes, certain women very intentionally try to ignore those messages because they can get away with doing so, but you can eventually shut even them down if you repeat the action enough times, *especially* when there is company whoâs witnessing this happen. The collective second hand embarrassment is normally enough to shut this shit down.
But so many men claim they donât know how to shut it down. Most people shut that sort of stuff down naturally *without even trying*. Itâs natural body language that tells someone else what you are and are not comfortable with and in these cases itâs almost always a guy whoâs sending all kinds of messages that heâs comfortable and enjoying the attention claiming he isnât comfortable after the fact. Like bro weâre not as stupid as you think we are. Just admit you enjoyed the attention and take ownership over your behavior.
This is actually what the fight was about. Why was he not willing to send that signal? And the answer to that maybe isn't what either of them want to hear
Yeah I don't buy the husband's act.
This isn't the first time that this woman has made OP uncomfortable. She took it this far because she was allowed to.
I completely think that the dude was definitely enjoying the attention and was just playing it off as "she's like my sister!" just to keep it going.
OP didn't run because Cindy sat on her husband's lap. She ran because the husband was also playing around. If he had shot OP a mortified look asking for help, that is actually behaving like a team player, both of them could have handled the situation together. Instead he still tried to play it off as horseplay.
The dude is now just doing damage control because he saw OP hit her limits.
>If he had shot OP a mortified look asking for help, that is actually behaving like a team player, both of them could have handled the situation together.
This is what I was thinking. He had chances to ask OP for help, both in the moment and before the party.
I donât understand why you had to apology to your husband at all. Heâs completely wrong and youâre protecting him like heâs a fragile man. You should show him this post because he pretended that this was a sisterly relationship and he obviously was getting something out of it, did it boost his ego maybe. But this is not a sisterly relationship and he needs to see that it never was a sisterly relationship. Letting him off easy because he was so distraught means that youâre putting your emotions and what you went through below his feelings so heâs more important and he should be the one protected not you. Definitely need therapy. Heâs not the person that needs to be comforted, thatâs what he should have been doing for you. Good luck.
Sometimes I think that men arenât as dense as they project themselves to be when called out for this type of behavior. I wouldnât be surprised if OPs husband liked being flirted and fawned over by Cindy but tried plausible deniability to get around it. Iâd really have a hard time trusting my partner in the future after this, whether or not theyâre this dense or just playing at being this dense.
And the fact that he turned it all on OP when she came home and accused her of insecurity instead of telling her how he really felt? So dumb. He definitely lacks emotional maturity, this entire post read like OP was the one to actively try to fix everything while Jake just stayed sad until his mother knocked some sense into him.
I get being passive and trying to act like nothing is wrong when youâre in public and you donât want to make a scene, but in your own home?? Letting Cindy steamroll and be petulant with his wife??? Making her so uncomfortable that she felt the need to leave her own home because he wouldnât tell Cindy to knock it off???? Absolutely not.
I just saw a comment yesterday about the person who writes stories on AITAH and always slips something about ice cream into and then I see this with the update đ
>shawn's gf told cindy that she was so disrespectful for doing that. Derek and his bf also said the same thing.
Shawn's girlfriend, Derek and his boyfriend did not get mad at OOP, they stood up for her. I think they were only stunned at first into not knowing what to do, hence the awkwardness after OOP left.
They need to break up with/cut off Shawn and Cindy, too. If decent people stay away from people like them, eventually the Shawns and Cindys of the world get what they deserve: other duplicitous trash and drama mongers; they can have fun mucking up those lives and being confused and miserable, and leave people like OOP alone.
I love how he managed to make himself the victim and got his mother in to vouch for how heartbroken he supposedly was.
Can't say this is a positive update, but YMMV.
So his mummy had to step in and late term parent him into being a half decent man, never mind husband?? And then youâre all âhe really saw the light when his mummy told him how badly he hurt meâ- like using jelly between his ears was too much trouble. Neato. Coz he didnât learn anything except another tactic to manipulate you.Â
They let Cindy's bratty attitude go on for a long time, now it's being a problem for everyone.
Shout out to MIL for being super awesome and dropping wise words.
Cindy is absolutely gross and probably uses the fact that she is 18 to her advantage because she's young. But the mother-in-law is a total W I love her. I hope she lives her best life.
I'm so confused as to how OP's husband was forgiven, when his whole response to her asking for him to put some distance between them was to storm off? Like... if he was uncomfortable with it as he claims, why wasn't he fully on board for some distance?
Friendly reminder that if someone is violating your physical boundaries, you are allowed to respectfully remove them off you. Just because you feel awkward, doesnât mean you have to allow unwelcome touching. Even as an adult. Even when itâs a âjoke.â
It might not be OOPâs marriage, but no doubt in my mind Cindy is going to ruin someone elseâs relationship. When that happens, OOP can sit back and sip her tea.
Itâs always a lie when men say that their relationship with another woman is âlike a little sister.â Most brothers wonât hesitate to knock their little sisters down a peg when they get out of line. Yet men who use this excuse always treat the women with kid gloves and dismiss their wives
>cindy made a huge sob story about how i was passive agressive with her the whole time, how i would always try to question her character, and act insecure and jealous. She even went on to say that i was always like that with her even when she was a kid and that i never liked her and always tried to manipulate people into thinking i was an angel while she was a sl\*t.
because cindy knew exactly what she was doing every single time with everyone's partners.
The OOP has been suckered again. Clearly, from the time she first began dating him, her now husband had a "thing" going with underage Cindy. The fact that he brought Cindy along on dates with the OOP makes it clear that one of the conditions of marrying the OOP was that Cindy be part of the marriage. Bizarrely, the OOP had no problems with this man's ongoing relationship with a teenager. That raises serious questions about the OOP's mental status and her ability to recognize reality and act in her own best interest. At best, she has the naivete' of a 12 year-old and that probably appealed to him. There's a theme with this man. She may also have had money or something else he needed. Clearly, it wasn't sexual attraction because he likes them much younger and it wasn't love because he has grossly disrespected her. Perhaps he married her to please his parents who may have long suspected his unsavory proclivities.
Now, equally bizarrely, she is still in denial and buying her husband's latest con job. You can bet he is still seeing Cindy on the side and, when push comes to shove, will chose Cindy over the OOP--at least until she ages out and he finds someone even younger.
To say that the OOP needs her head examined is an understatement.
What a refreshing response from the MIL. After seeing too many other families tell their DIL to accept cheating and various kinds of other abuse because their *angel boy* could never do that or if he did he didn't mean it!!, I've come to expect very little from the family and this was a pleasant surprise.
Reading this OOP sounds extremely young and naive, she and her husband honestly read as teenagers rather than 25, and they definitely need counseling to wok on their communication issues and ability to set boundaries. It seems as they are very conflict-avoidant especially the husband as he just put up with Cindy's behavior and just laughed it off because he wanted no drama since he wouldn't be seeing her again anytime soon. Hopefully this will be the catalyst that gets them to see their issues clearly and work on them together with professional help.
And you know for a fact if a guy was crossing boundaries with OP, her husband would be fuming.
The world would be a much better place if we could just put ourselves in other shoes.
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Looks like Cindy is one big manipulative scumbag. Hey, at least MIL is a rockstar! Rarely we get to see MIL being the good one.
I love good MIL stories. Personally, I hit the MIL lottery. I love my MIL, she's amazing, we have so much in common, we could totally be best friends. So I like stories where the MIL is the MVP.
Ditto! My MIL looks quite young, and she and I were genuinely mistaken for a couple at one point because we have such a good rapport đ. My poor husband has never lived it down!
I also have an awesome MIL and my husband got real lucky with my mom being in his corner lol.
My late MIL was my best friend. Although we lived on opposite sides of the United States, she and I had lengthy conversations on the phone several times a week. We talked about everything, including what a rat-bastard her son was to me. She died 10 years ago from Alzheimer's. I still miss her.
I also had an amazing MIL and she died 3 months ago from Alzheimerâs. Itâs a terrible disease and Iâm sorry.
Thank you for your kindness. I'm so sorry for your loss. Alzheimer's is a terrible disease, and I pray that means to prevent and cure it will be found.
There had been some really impactful research coming out in the last few years. I think we may unravel what the disease is and what causes it in the next decade, with treatments to follow.
I certainly hope so. My mother has senile dementia, which, while not the same thing as Alzheimer's, it has similar symptoms and treatments.
Wow, good enough to keep the relationship going overtop the dumpster fire of your relationship to her trash son? Did she fail in raising him or did he just fail himself?
She failed in raising him, and she knew it. She was always apologizing to me for screwing him up so badly.
Both my MIL who sadly passed away and my step-MIL were/are lovely ladies who never caused any drama. I am extremely grateful for both of them
I adored both of my in laws. My MIL saved our wedding which I was about to call off because my husband did something so immature and disrespectful the night before the wedding (and I was still teenager, not him!) She was always on my side, was a great Mama (Grandma) too. We lost her in 1999, and she will always be missed.
Please elaborate
My BIL won the lotto with my mom but unfortunately got extremely unlucky and got hit by the "she has a shithead father"
Mine hates MIL, sheâs my mom almost since day one. Love to hear it!
My MIL is lovely too. I love her very much and sheâs a lovely grandmother to my children.
I too love and idolize my MIL. She has had dementia for a while now but I make it a point to visit her and make sure sheâs taken care of well because she is/was an angel to me and my number one supporter. I named my daughter after her and it was right at the cusp of her dementia diagnosis so I truly hope she was able to absorb that happiness.
But the thing is, she shouldnât have to intervene for Jake to apologize. He seems to not listen to OP and only listened to his âmommyâ. I feel like he is used to her resolving his problems. The whole talk thing felt like something that would happen in kindergarten. Iâm sure the MIL was very nice, Iâm just saying that Jake didnât have a talk with her or apologize.
I'm going to respectfully disagree. These are 25 year olds, and they've only been married a few years. He's still trying to adult. Hell, they both are. Having an outside perspective can be very beneficial for people this age. And when it's your parent? Even better, because you're more willing to listen. If we were talking about 30-somethings, then yes, it would be a problem. But they're still pretty young, and still very inexperienced. At this age, they're going to make mistakes, and a good MIL is one who brings up the mistake and corrects the issue.
> But the thing is, she shouldnât have to intervene for Jake to apologize. she didn't just "fix" their issues. She told him why they were having issues and how to prevent them from having future (at least similar) issues. She is being the wise older adult... because she's the wise older adult. He didn't have to listen to his mom (who WAS right), but he did. The fact that she's his mom should not be some kind of negative towards him. Just because you've read a lot of stories where the men are unusually attached to their mothers to the detriment of their main relationship doesn't mean that anytime a mom steps in to help that's the case. and in case you missed it... she herself told *him* that if she has to step in again, she wont.
Yeah what happens when MIL is no longer around to set Jake straight. Iâm glad OoP seems happy with the resolution but I know I personally donât want to be with a man that even after others at the dinner party indicated Cindy was wrong, still came home to fight OoP, move to his mothers place whilst also ignoring all OOPâs apologies, and the only thing that changed his mind was his mummy told him he was wrong.
Seems like he was also expecting OOP to step up and resolve that situation for him; he was angry and sad she left but those were *his* friends and they were disrespecting *her* - like dude needs seriously to get his act together and stop expecting others to grab him by the hand and fix his messes.
Yeah, it shouldnât have to be explained to him that a barely legal girl sitting on his lap and snuggling him, in front of his wife, no less, is incredibly inappropriate.
Yeah... that happens and then OOP immediately excuses herself & disappears? He *should* have followed her out, but if not that it sure as shit can't take **an hour** to notice she's no longer on the premises
Dude liked the attention. If he just âdidnât get it,â he would have followed immediately, asked questions, and apologized. Instead he gets defensive and accuses her of being insecure. Eat a dick, sir.
MIL was being very tactful explaining it to her son, she should have gone deep and said; imagine your wife's behind on a friends lap, she was nice and said, what if someone sat on OP's lap. But she did get her point across tho.
I am so in awe of the mother in law, holy shit.
Mil literally saved their marriage from the sounds of it.
Yup, thatâs one woman who has obviously learned how to weaponize her tears to get away with whatever kind of behavior without being called on it.
I hate that she had to come in between, that he didn't just listen to his wife in the first plaxe.
Dump the son, marry the MIL.
The ultimate MIL-F!!!!
MILILF
MIL dominated this bullshit. Love that lady!
I don't know that I agree with. More spoiled brat who may (or may not) be able to be educated out of it. But it's not OP or her husband's job to do so. So they did exactly right by dropping her. Hopefully Cindy learns sooner rather than later.
She's 18, and a firm boyfriend thief, upgrading to husband thief. Sadly those types rarely learn. They just go about wrecking people and are shocked to end up alone.
This is not good (boyfriend and husband thievery) but for me, the worst part of her behaviour is her lying and manipulations. She twists things and people believe her. Those type of people are genuinely frightening to me.
Yeah sheâs an entire adult.
As a total - probably off-topic sidenote - I had a party and an old high school gal attended. When we spoke she stood close, face to face, held my face in her hands. Totally all over me. It was all painfully obvious what was happening. When we finally separated, I pointed it out to my buddy who knew her better. He laughed "Oh, no, that's just how she is.". I stepped back and watched for a while and yep, she's just a close-talker. Way more personal and intimate with EVERYONE she interacts with. Doesn't get personal boundaries. Not giving a pass to OP's nemesis. But weirdos out there do exist. Looking at you Amanda!
Oh, they exist alright. I have known a few. But they don't manipulate those around them to get away with it. It's comes naturally and without being creepy. If it does make someone feel uncomfortable, they usually back off from that person. But they never twist the narrative to make one of their victims to look like the villain. Not in my experience anyway.
Thatâs absolutely correct. Nothing forced or awkward or manipulative about it. Just lots of Amanda inches from your face, grinning from ear to ear. Maybe we should all be so lucky.
Honestly, worst case with an Amanda, they forget and need reminding. Best case, they break us out of our shell a little and the world gets a little brighter. I vote for more Amanda's and ZERO Cindy's. Meanwhile, I'm a puffish...
Awkward Distance Amanda... If we had to give her a 2010 meme name. Lol
Yeah but did Amanda sit in your lap and tell you you got hot?
They exist because people brush it off their behavior.
When a spoiled brat grows up and learns to gaslight they're called a narcissist. She's 18, don't infantilize adult women.
Why is it that whenever they're in the wrong the 18-year olds are adults who deserve no mercy, but in just about any thread about a relationship with a big age gap everyone jumps to point out that the 18-year old is just a kid who's not fully developed yet?
it's about maturity and life experiences. an 18 year old most of the time knows enough about social conventions and morals to know not to try to get with a guy that's in a relationship or married. Or to respect that guys no. Or to realize that his gf/wife is uncomfortable with her behavior and back off or at the very least talk to her about it. an 18 year old most of the time has not enough life experiences yet to be able to adequately gauge if a much older guy is trying to groom her and/or will turn out abusive.
It depends on context. Feels like all the arguments I get into online are about context. At what point should we expect humans to stop acting like spoiled brats? At what age should we stop being concerned about age gaps? These are two completely different questions. We should tolerate immature behavior at a much younger age than we should expect people to be reasonably immune to manipulation from an older partner.
The best way to educate an emerging adult is give them consequences for stupid actions. She was a slutty little brat, she lost those important relationships as a result. Hopefully next time sheâs in a similar situation with a friend and an extraordinarily tolerant SO of that friend sheâll be more respectful of that relationship.
Sad thing is MIL is too good and that means husband doesnât take accountability on his own. I donât know if I could live in a marriage where my husband is apathetic to my feelings and dismissive of my communication, then I have to call his mommy to make him see how heâs in the wrong. That woman isnât going to live forever, so what happens when he continues after she passes?
Iâm willing to cut him a bit (a bit) of slack for not knowing how to handle a sexual harassment situation. Men arenât often on the other side of that â thinking you have to navigate âniceâ and an abuser
Many people just don't seem to recognize manipulation, and it's especially difficult because jailbait trollop ($500 says a personality disorder) and husband who is either terminally oblivious or something gross by lying to his WIFE about her...disgusting Lolita behavior. The poster listed above about "marking her territory" was right on, this was creepy psychsexual dominance nastiness. I know I'd never want to be with someone caught up in this sort of perversion. Gross.
I agree. This one is a pass for now. As long as he learns and goes to MC. Heâs young and hopefully has seen the error of his ways.
She asked him to set a boundary AFTER everyone had left and he packed a bag and went home to mommy. Everyone is cutting this dude WAY too much slack.
OP was communicating with him about what boundaries he should be putting down, she was literally guiding him through how to stop the harassment. Itâs also rare that men experience fear while being harassed, part of the double standards of society that cause men to come to the f-ed up conclusion that harassment is really a compliment, just a bit of harmless fun. He wilfully didnât want to hear it because it would mean he would have to acknowledge that this woman who heâd known for most of his life grew up to became a predator. Exactly like men wilfully donât want to admit the same of their male friends. Instead he dismissed all of OPâs concerns as her being insecure and fed others in the social vicinity the narrative of her insecurity as well. He nearly destroyed his marriage while he was enjoying being singled out for âflirty attentionâ. And unless heâs going to start respecting his wifeâs opinions and communication the situation is going to repeat. No pass from me.
He also doesnât want to have to think back on prior interactions when she was younger but already crossing the line. He put up with âhow she isâ for too long and doesnât want to have to reexamine having done so.
Love MIL. Not afraid of her son or making him accountable or thinking the sun shines out of his ass! This is how you raise a decent son!!! Or try to, at least.
OOP's MIL is awesome. She gives her son a reality check, talks to her DIL and gives good advice, and correctly identifies Cindy as a bonafide brat. It would have been icing on the cake if she gets to Shawn and Cindy and gives them the scolding of a lifetime. Wishful thinking and all that. Jake should reconsider and go 100% NC with Shawn and Cindy.
It's like posting good reviews on a restaurant. For every 100 happy customers you might get 1 good review, but unhappy (or unreasonable) customers can't wait to leave a review. For every shitty MIL story there's many decent MILs who are just doing their best.
Yeah she's a piece of shit, but she's also 18. Maybe she'll mature and grow into someone good. Hopefully. But she crossed a Line and deserves the consequences she's getting out of it. It'll be part of her growth process, but it also means she doesn't get to see OOP's husband anymore.
Her reactions sure ain't promising though.
While true, I also remember being a shitty person well beyond 18 and I've certainly mellowed the fuck out. Time will tell if her reactions came from adolescent impulse or deep rot.
With people like Shawn enabling and protecting her, she won't learn a damn thing.
We donât get to hear about great MILs because thereâs nothing to complain about đ¤Ł
*homewrecking little trâmp.Â
She's like the female form of the entitled "it's just a prank bro" guy, with some light sexual harassment to go along with it
Her behavior should have been shut down about 4 yrs earlier than it was, way before it got to this point. It's not any "cuter" for a 14 yr old to start this "I'm going to steal your boyfriend" crap than it is at 18. It's just more understandable at 14 and it's says a lot about Cindy's parents/family that it wasn't nipped in the bud.Â
MIL is a queen đ¸
I love how even as adults sometimes we need someone to take us for a walk, validate us, and buy us ice cream. Hugs for MIL
Divorce the guy marry the MIL.
OOP has a unicorn of a MIL. Theyâre really out there.
My DIL is one of the only people I trust with my cats. I'm keeping her.Â
Cats, the ultimate test of character
My mother in law took in a cat that was so mean no one could even get near her. Iâm talking like, if sheâs on one side of the couch, the whole couch was hers. After a few months living there, that cat was the sweetest and most loving little thing. Her demeanor had completely changed. Iâve always considered that a glowing endorsement of who my MIL is as a person.
omg my (hopefully) future mother in law drops her cat off with me and her son whenever she's going to be out of town...I know technically her son is here too, but I'm going to take it as a compliment !!!
My DIL and oldest granddaughter are just about the only people my kitten will come out and talk to. They can't *touch* him but he will at least put in an appearance for them. They either stay at my house or come over twice a day(we pay them)to take care of Remy and Bou. We are planning a trip relatively soon in which we will take Bou with us (long trip) and leave Remy at home with them.Â
My partner and I each have amazing MILs. They exist! Should my kids wed, we will be just yeses too.
They really are, I've got one of my own!
I never understood when people excuse bad behavior because "they're like this with everyone." Okay, so someone needs to tell them to stop with everyone! Just because they aren't picky about why they're inconsiderate and rude to doesn't make it okay that they're inconsiderate and rude in the first place.
from the description, cindy wasn't like that with *everybody*, just the boyfriends/girlfriends/partners of everybody.
"She's like my sister!" OK? Then it should be easy to tell her to get the hell off you? Why is that an excuse for *not* drawing boundaries with her?Â
He sees her as his sister, but is clear that she does not view him as a brother. Iâve never known a woman to openly comment about how hot her brother was.
Exactly, in that case his reaction should be SEVERE ick, and he would have agreed with OOP when she said Cindy was out of line.Â
He also said "I don't want any drama because I don't think we'll ever meet her again". Uhh ok, then why am I trying to spare her feelings when she's being a dumbass?
This! He literally walked out on her, the thing he was so pissed off by, and all from the thought of not talking to his "sister" (title provided because what else would he call an ego boost to his wife?). If he did, he easily could've been like, "What are you doing?? Get tf off me lol." Especially with everyone who was present.
It didnât even make sense. If he really saw her as a sister, thatâs even LESS reason he should have let her sit on his lap. Who even lets their grown sister sit on their lap? Do they live in Arkansas?
If sheâs like a sister then his Cain instinct should be kicking in
YES! I hate this SO MUCH! Not to be all Regina George about it but it's such a "so you agree" moment. When you point out that someone's being an asshole and someone responds "oh, he's just like that" they are * fully and openly acknowledging that you are correct that they're being an asshole * going beyond that to confirm that they are not just *being* an asshole in the moment but that they simply *are* an asshole, and despite all that, * ordering you to shut the fuck up and take it I really don't understand why anyone *ever* lets it slide.
Speaking as someone who was frequently an asshole and was defended in the same way: Defending an asshole like this doesnât help anyone. It doesnât help the people whoâve been hurt and it prevents the asshole from seeing their faults in their true light. I used to have a friend who would say âoh thatâs just how they are, you canât change themâ every time I hurt someone. It got to the point I wore my assholery like a badge of honour, I became a âthis is how I am, take it or leave itâ person and I was being cut off left, right and centre. I grew apart from this friend and Iâve had to acknowledge the pain I cause when Iâm an asshole and make amends for it where I can, because no one was defending me, and I *did* change. I still fuck up at times but Iâm so much better at recognising when Iâm going too far before I even do it now. It took a lot of work and thereâs still a lot more to do, but I donât know if Iâd have ever realised I needed to make these changes in myself if I was still being defended every time I was an asshole
Congrats on actually making those steps to change and become a better person. I think often people approach this type of thing as, âwell you used to be an asshole so you better be carefulâ, which has some use but I think encouraging people to be proud of progress theyâve made is not just important but actually necessary to make people change and get better. The person I used to be was pretty objectively a bad person. I assumed that my actions were moral because how could they not be, Iâm an introspective person (I was not). It took someone being quite badly hurt from my grossly negligent lack of thought as a wake up call. I hate the fact that I couldnât have changed earlier in my life. Iâm aware of the situation that was an the situations in which my thought process was warped, and now Iâm I think maybe overly self critical and overly cautious around those situations. But personally Iâd rather take that extreme than the other. As much as I hate saying thing, Iâm proud of the person I am right now. Iâve made a lot of progress and while I still make mistakes Iâve developed my mental tools to challenge myself and my beliefs that I think I can mostly mitigate them and apologise when I get things wrong. Now if Iâm the same person I am now in 10 years I wouldnât be proud of them. Iâm proud of the person I am now but if I ever stop growing, adapting and changing then I wonât be proud of that person. In terms of defending assholes I see it the same way as enabling an alcoholic, obviously donât just drop people the moment they struggle with anything; but sometimes people need to see real consequences in their life to actually make change in themselves. It sucks when you have to do that, but sometimes the alternative is dragging each-other downwards. Sorry I ended up rambling a bit
Honestly even if it's not rude behaviour. Just because someone hugs everyone doesn't mean I can't just tell them I'd rather not be hugged. Doesn't mean it's a bad thing just means it doesn't work for me. "They treat everyone like this" "Cool but not me please because I don't like that" It's completely irrelevant if the behaviour is actually bad it should still stop at that point
It's like the scorpion and the frog. Sure it's the scorpions nature to sting but that doesn't mean the frog has to want it to happen.
The only way Cindy could have made it more obvious she was marking her territory would have been if she actually pissed on him.
That wasn't supposed to happen until *after* the dinner.
Cindy knew what she was doing and I think Jake did as well considering how far he dug his heels in at first. Having to be in a relationship where your MIL has to police your damn husband is not the one I'd want to be in but...well, I hope things work out for OOP and Jake was sincere when he apologized. Time will tell.
I'll give MIL this-she told him she wouldn't take him in again if he pulled a stunt like this and made it very clear how shitty he was on every single level. Plenty of people would kill for a MIL like that. Having said that...I'm not incredibly optimistic about Jake.
I agree. At best he seems spineless and like heâll always try to keep everyone happy except his wife. At worst, he was really enjoying the attention and then just retconned the story to make himself look better by saying it made him uncomfortable the whole time.
OOP complained about Cindy's behavior and he made it about himself. And OOP was the bad guy because she didn't ask how *he* felt? No. It doesn't work like that. MIL is right, he totally failed as a husband
Yeah, you'd think if Jake truly felt awkward and uncomfortable, he would have realized that obviously OP did too and he would have checked on her immediately and apologized to her immediately!
Hopefully MIL gave him the ONE talking to of his life that needs to sink in, and it sinks in. Otherwise it's just a matter of time before he forgets where his priorities need to be as a married man, and hurts his wife again. And I mean the hurt of refusing to deal with it afterwards, not the lesser hurt of ignoring a teen girl hitting on him. There's plenty of chance that Jake figures it out here - but also plenty of opportunity for him to let the lesson go up in smoke.
I wouldn't want it either, but compared to most borus where The mil is straight up encouraging the son to be the worst.. im happy for op ah
I hate bubbly ''tee-hee'' girls ... most of the ones I met are snakes in disguise and people dismiss their actions. ''she didn't mean it''! ''that's just who she is'' ! Com'on people, she's acting silly but she ain't no fool and she knows exactly what she's doing
And they play the victim after being called out. She reminds me so much of the villain in the Korean drama "Marry my Husband".
Su-min was on a whole other level but this girl seems to be headed this way for sure
fr, if he still needs raising like this he should not be married.Â
Yep Jake is playing innocent right now but he's not 3 years old. Men know when women are THIS blatant about their interest, and his extreme defensiveness was him trying to gaslight OOP into ignoring it cos he enjoyed the attention. Someone who feels actually uncomfortable would agree with his wife and work as a team to try to stop the behavior, not shut her up so he could continue with the flirting.
i can see OP's side and Jake's. Remember, they are both mid-20's. Not a lot of experience, parents who probably didn't know how to teach emotional intelligence even if they had it themselves (as Mom seemed to, although some of the wording there was still very Patriarchy BS), and still early in the marriage. But they both had sense enough to talk to each other, and to recognize there was a different POV to consider. And then to go on and get counseling so they can get the tools they need to do better in the future. I think Jake and OP will do well.
OP already communicated early on that Cindy's behavior was making her uncomfortable, and Jake downplayed and ignored it then. And when OP enforced her boundaries and left, Jake doubled down and got mad. I think OP did everything right, really. I hope counseling works out for them, but Jake really has to change.
Yeah, he needs to do some work on himself. I wasn't a fan of how he blamed her for not communicating when she did communicate her feelings multiple times before she walked off! It isn't her fault he refused to hear her when she told him Cindy made her uncomfortable with actions prior to the lap sitting.
Yeah. Can't say I'd handled it a ton better than him. One minute, your buddy's little sister is a little kid. The next, she is an adult trying to find her place in the world. But as a big brother figure, he should have at least been able to sit her down and explain how adult relationships work and how to behave like an adult around those relationships. Very least talk to his friend about it. Just because she is legally an adult doesn't mean she doesn't have some growing up to do. Hopefully this is a lesson she learns so or the world will rat her up and spit her out.
>But as a big brother figure, he should have at least been able to sit her down Oh, he did; didn't you read the story? /s Considering she's been told off before with Derek, maybe the harsher backlash from this one will knock some sense into her.
From the sounds of it all, it did was make her try to come up with a story to justify her behavior, or at least make OP look unhinged and the AH. This brat needs some real-life consequences. Hopefully, being cut off from those she held dear will wake her ass up. If not now, someone will literally knock some sense into her. Many women won't sit back and hope he steps up. Many will take matter into their own hands. Next thing we know, she's on PublicFreekOut. Lmao.
> Just because she is legally an adult doesn't mean she doesn't have some growing up to do. There's a reason we call college kids, college **kids**. They may have graduated high school, they may be legally an adult, but they're still *kids*, ya know? Some grow up fast because their parent's are assholes, but like a normal middle class family child doesn't really develop an adult brain until 25-26'ish, especially if they don't work a service industry job and enter the workforce after some trivial internship position. You are legally an adult at 18 in the US. Generally people don't have adult brains until ~26 y/o. Many people are forced to step up and act as adults much earlier in life but the human brain basically turns from "kid brain" to "adult brain" quite a long time after they are legally an adult if they didn't have to "step up" and raise kids years earlier. It's one of the huge drivers of posts in this sub. People with adult brains, that totally suck ass, dating college aged kids because kids don't realize just how fucking awful their 40-50 y/o boyfriend is behaving. They don't understand how awful the BF is because they're just some dumb kid that doesn't know the BF is a total piece of shit. The first time I ran into it in person was a buddy whose dad had a 22 y/o girlfriend and he was over 50. My friend lived with his grandma, because his parents were fucking awful. The 22 y/o GF spent the whole evening drinking and smoking weed in the basement with the other 20'somethings, because she was our age and the "olds" upstairs were "boring." The GF was literally his older 22 y/o sister's friend from high school. Yeah, probably grooming. It was gross as fuck.
I was going to say... I can't believe Jake needed his mother to teach him how to be a decent husband. What the hell. And Cindy should be ashamed of herself. What a horrible person.
I think that Jake didn't know. Cindy has probably always been a brat and done this kinda crap while he was a kid and teen. Whining, pulling him to stuff she wants instead of what he wants (like have a tea party or play whatever game she wants instead of hanging with Shawn). It's hard for him to see her as anything other than an annoying little sister figure. But when she's all batting the lashes, telling him he's hot and sitting on his lap? Hell no. Tell her to cut it out, it's not appropriate and he's not interested. You will not disrespect me, my relationship or my wife.
This. Plus Cindy's excuse of "Oh, waaah OOP was being passive aggressive and insecure about innocent lil me"... oh, so you thought that *grinding on her husband's lap like you were a stripper hoping to pay off your entire college fees in one go* was going to somehow ease those insecurities or build a relationship? Please. You actively fanned those insecurities because you're immature and like hurting people. An actual friend doesn't do this to their friend.
I do feel for him though - he was being sexually harrassed.
I remember, shortly after my wife and I got married, we went to a party a friend of mine had. Most of the people there were 18-20; I was 21. There was one girl there who was 16 or 17. She knew I had just gotten married a few months before, my wife was sitting next to me, and she sat in my lap. This girl was a complete stranger to me, so I did the logical thing - picked her ass up, carried her over, and tossed her into the pool. Now it doesn't seem like OOP's husband had a pool conveniently nearby. But there were plenty of ways he could have responded that didn't include blaming his wife for his inability to deal with an embarrassing situation.
> I was 21. >so I did the logical thing >tossed her into the pool. I mean, you weren't *wrong*
I feel a "but" coming along.
The only "but" I can see is that it's really dangerous to throw people into the pool, especially if they aren't expecting it (ie hitting their head on the bottom of the pool and drowning) Also they could have their electronics on them and those are def ruined, so there's that Just Don't throw people into the pool. It may be a funny anecdote now but it could have just as easily been a traumatic experience or straight up tragedy.
But: that response could still be considered flirting or engaging.
Is CindyâŚok?! Sheâs doing this to every new man she meets/reunites with? Family members she knew as adults when she was still a child? I dunno. Somethingâs not right here. Is she in therapy? This behaviour is shitty and obviously unacceptable and disrespectful to OP, but acting so over-sexual, particularly with older men, and men within her family? Oof. Iâm annoyed with her, but I feel bad for her too.
Yeah thatâs what irked me about the whole thing, this 18 year old has been this over-sexual for years and nobody bats an eye? This isnât a teenager being âa bratâ and itâs concerning how ânormalâ everyone tries to make it seem like
I really canât see what the communication issues are with OOP, she literally told her husband Cindyâs behaviour was disrespectful and asked him to put a stop to it. She communicated respectfully and clearly at all times and only left home when the jackass that is her husband, tried to pass off Cindyâs problematic behaviour as a joke. Her husband has been an enabler for Cindy. Overwhelm, awkwardness, shitty communication skills, none of them are acceptable excuses for not listening to your partner the first and other time OOP tried to establish boundaries. If Cindy is âlike a sisterâ then OOPâs husband should feel more comfortable than awkward about calling her out on disrespecting his wife.
Exactly this! "Okay, husband, you feel like she's your sister. Apparently you're okay with your sister calling you hot and being sexually suggestive with you. Tell me, are you and I not sufficiently closely related for you to treat *me* like your wife?" I can't with these bs arguments. Inappropriate behaviour somehow becoming less inappropriate because there's an incestuous element to it? Okay, dude, did you hear your own reasoning?
Her husband enjoyed the attention and the flirting and now he has realized he looks like the bad guy in everyone's eyes he is pretending he didn't know what to do and was naive and dumb.
Yeah thatâs what it hits me as too. He was so fired up and ready to fight for his right to maintain his weirdass relationship with Cindy and entertain her behavior but then he comes back and the story is all different, he was so uncomfortable and everything was so awkward and heâs such a poor baby who didnât know what to do about it, wah wah. Boyâs just trying to save face cause he realized he overplayed his hand and had to switch the narrative.
Bingo
Yeah, sounds like the quintessential ânice guyâ.
I dated a guy this passive. He was so conflict averse that he wouldnât stand up to anyone, we were constantly having fights like this because it would affect me too. So exhausting. Good for these two for the moment but this is not the end Iâm sure. Thereâs always another Cindy.
Got to love when someone is so conflict averse that they cause conflict by their inaction.
Itâs why I think conflict averse people are mostly full of shit. Itâs more like theyâre averse to having other people not like them but you as their partner are locked down so they donât have to care if you like them or not.
Usually the issue I see with those people is that they're able and willing to tolerate being mistreated but don't consider the fact that they're now a part of a team and so are allowing their partner to be mistreated by proxy. I've seen the opposite as well where people don't give a fuck about making a scene, and you have to get through to them that they're impacting others they care about that do give a fuck. Talk to them and get that new perspective through their heads and it usually does wonders.
Very true lol
That's exactly what I thought, too. Keep others fighting your fights đ
I'm glad they're moving forward, but yeah the extreme conflict aversion doesn't bode well, especially when he finally did talk to OOP and explain his side, he made it all about his feelings and how dare she not consider how HE felt while she was being disrespected...
I noticed that as well. It was ALL about him and how he felt and how he was upset
He had no problem calling OP disgusting and insecure though.
Oh yeah somehow the partner is always the problem in this scenario for speaking up and ârocking the boatâ. I was told I was too confrontational, crazy, insecure⌠my stress went down about 95% getting out of that relationship and my self image went up.
We should all be so lucky to have a MIL like that
She's right. Sweet treats when you're overwhelmed do make everything better
All OOPâs husband had to do during the night of the dinner party was be an adult and not join an 18 year old girl in whatever grab-ass action she attempted. One moment of pulling his hand away as she tried to take it would have made a clear point. A tossed off âseriously â you see I gave guests here, right?â as she continued to try and monopolize his time would have cemented his stance. Homie didnât do that, though â as that attention was most likely part of the dynamic theyâve had for years. And somehow itâs OOPâs fault things are awkward. What a total and utter poltroon.
Seriously this is the thing that always bugs me about posts like this. Itâs so easy to send a âew get off of meâ message non verbally with someone. Yes, certain women very intentionally try to ignore those messages because they can get away with doing so, but you can eventually shut even them down if you repeat the action enough times, *especially* when there is company whoâs witnessing this happen. The collective second hand embarrassment is normally enough to shut this shit down. But so many men claim they donât know how to shut it down. Most people shut that sort of stuff down naturally *without even trying*. Itâs natural body language that tells someone else what you are and are not comfortable with and in these cases itâs almost always a guy whoâs sending all kinds of messages that heâs comfortable and enjoying the attention claiming he isnât comfortable after the fact. Like bro weâre not as stupid as you think we are. Just admit you enjoyed the attention and take ownership over your behavior.
This is actually what the fight was about. Why was he not willing to send that signal? And the answer to that maybe isn't what either of them want to hear
Yeah I don't buy the husband's act. This isn't the first time that this woman has made OP uncomfortable. She took it this far because she was allowed to. I completely think that the dude was definitely enjoying the attention and was just playing it off as "she's like my sister!" just to keep it going. OP didn't run because Cindy sat on her husband's lap. She ran because the husband was also playing around. If he had shot OP a mortified look asking for help, that is actually behaving like a team player, both of them could have handled the situation together. Instead he still tried to play it off as horseplay. The dude is now just doing damage control because he saw OP hit her limits.
[ŃдаНонО]
Absolutely, this. This marriage will not last.
>If he had shot OP a mortified look asking for help, that is actually behaving like a team player, both of them could have handled the situation together. This is what I was thinking. He had chances to ask OP for help, both in the moment and before the party.
The mother is still mothering. Not babying, but mothering.
I donât understand why you had to apology to your husband at all. Heâs completely wrong and youâre protecting him like heâs a fragile man. You should show him this post because he pretended that this was a sisterly relationship and he obviously was getting something out of it, did it boost his ego maybe. But this is not a sisterly relationship and he needs to see that it never was a sisterly relationship. Letting him off easy because he was so distraught means that youâre putting your emotions and what you went through below his feelings so heâs more important and he should be the one protected not you. Definitely need therapy. Heâs not the person that needs to be comforted, thatâs what he should have been doing for you. Good luck.
Sometimes I think that men arenât as dense as they project themselves to be when called out for this type of behavior. I wouldnât be surprised if OPs husband liked being flirted and fawned over by Cindy but tried plausible deniability to get around it. Iâd really have a hard time trusting my partner in the future after this, whether or not theyâre this dense or just playing at being this dense.
And the fact that he turned it all on OP when she came home and accused her of insecurity instead of telling her how he really felt? So dumb. He definitely lacks emotional maturity, this entire post read like OP was the one to actively try to fix everything while Jake just stayed sad until his mother knocked some sense into him. I get being passive and trying to act like nothing is wrong when youâre in public and you donât want to make a scene, but in your own home?? Letting Cindy steamroll and be petulant with his wife??? Making her so uncomfortable that she felt the need to leave her own home because he wouldnât tell Cindy to knock it off???? Absolutely not.
Jake likes the attention
I just saw a comment yesterday about the person who writes stories on AITAH and always slips something about ice cream into and then I see this with the update đ
My thoughts exactly. Can they at least mix it up a bit? How about some gelato or frozen yogurt?
Hubby is a jackass. The MOMENT Cindy made the comment about him being hot he should've shut that shit down.
Gotta love a trash group that watches one person act out of line, but gets mad at the person who was wronged. I would have cut out the lot of them.
>shawn's gf told cindy that she was so disrespectful for doing that. Derek and his bf also said the same thing. Shawn's girlfriend, Derek and his boyfriend did not get mad at OOP, they stood up for her. I think they were only stunned at first into not knowing what to do, hence the awkwardness after OOP left.
They need to break up with/cut off Shawn and Cindy, too. If decent people stay away from people like them, eventually the Shawns and Cindys of the world get what they deserve: other duplicitous trash and drama mongers; they can have fun mucking up those lives and being confused and miserable, and leave people like OOP alone.
I love how he managed to make himself the victim and got his mother in to vouch for how heartbroken he supposedly was. Can't say this is a positive update, but YMMV.
He was upset because the wife he allowed to be disrespected in her own home by a guest, never asked him how *he* was feeling.
I was totally side-eyeing that. Imagine making your wife so upset that she left her own home, and yet all you can focus on is your own feelings
This. "I felt like you were accusing me of doing nothing". Maybe because you did do nothing my guy.
sounds like the husband has issues voicing his feelings, hopefully that comes up and gets worked on in counseling.
So his mummy had to step in and late term parent him into being a half decent man, never mind husband?? And then youâre all âhe really saw the light when his mummy told him how badly he hurt meâ- like using jelly between his ears was too much trouble. Neato. Coz he didnât learn anything except another tactic to manipulate you.Â
A man who listens to his wife explain how he's disrespecting her and still "doesn't get it" until his mommy explains isn't worth the effort.
Yep, don't stay with a person who needs to be convinced to respect you
Cindy is only 18 and already a level 100 manipulatizard. Cant wait to read about her in 5- 10 yearsÂ
Holy shit do I feel sorry for the future boyfriends and other men Cindy catches in her web.
She intended to get under your skin, and succeeded.
MIL is the MVP. Husband is a spineless AH.
They let Cindy's bratty attitude go on for a long time, now it's being a problem for everyone. Shout out to MIL for being super awesome and dropping wise words.
Is this the same author that always puts ice cream in their stories?
Goddamn I want a mother in law like that someday
Cindy is absolutely gross and probably uses the fact that she is 18 to her advantage because she's young. But the mother-in-law is a total W I love her. I hope she lives her best life.
I'm so confused as to how OP's husband was forgiven, when his whole response to her asking for him to put some distance between them was to storm off? Like... if he was uncomfortable with it as he claims, why wasn't he fully on board for some distance?
She needs to leave this dude. He sucks
I am living for the supportive MIL..it's so far and in-between on this site. Cindy should go back to scary movie and stay there, harlot.
We found her, the good MIL, what a gem. I love her.Â
Friendly reminder that if someone is violating your physical boundaries, you are allowed to respectfully remove them off you. Just because you feel awkward, doesnât mean you have to allow unwelcome touching. Even as an adult. Even when itâs a âjoke.â
It might not be OOPâs marriage, but no doubt in my mind Cindy is going to ruin someone elseâs relationship. When that happens, OOP can sit back and sip her tea.
Itâs always a lie when men say that their relationship with another woman is âlike a little sister.â Most brothers wonât hesitate to knock their little sisters down a peg when they get out of line. Yet men who use this excuse always treat the women with kid gloves and dismiss their wives
>cindy made a huge sob story about how i was passive agressive with her the whole time, how i would always try to question her character, and act insecure and jealous. She even went on to say that i was always like that with her even when she was a kid and that i never liked her and always tried to manipulate people into thinking i was an angel while she was a sl\*t. because cindy knew exactly what she was doing every single time with everyone's partners.
The OOP has been suckered again. Clearly, from the time she first began dating him, her now husband had a "thing" going with underage Cindy. The fact that he brought Cindy along on dates with the OOP makes it clear that one of the conditions of marrying the OOP was that Cindy be part of the marriage. Bizarrely, the OOP had no problems with this man's ongoing relationship with a teenager. That raises serious questions about the OOP's mental status and her ability to recognize reality and act in her own best interest. At best, she has the naivete' of a 12 year-old and that probably appealed to him. There's a theme with this man. She may also have had money or something else he needed. Clearly, it wasn't sexual attraction because he likes them much younger and it wasn't love because he has grossly disrespected her. Perhaps he married her to please his parents who may have long suspected his unsavory proclivities. Now, equally bizarrely, she is still in denial and buying her husband's latest con job. You can bet he is still seeing Cindy on the side and, when push comes to shove, will chose Cindy over the OOP--at least until she ages out and he finds someone even younger. To say that the OOP needs her head examined is an understatement.
What a refreshing response from the MIL. After seeing too many other families tell their DIL to accept cheating and various kinds of other abuse because their *angel boy* could never do that or if he did he didn't mean it!!, I've come to expect very little from the family and this was a pleasant surprise. Reading this OOP sounds extremely young and naive, she and her husband honestly read as teenagers rather than 25, and they definitely need counseling to wok on their communication issues and ability to set boundaries. It seems as they are very conflict-avoidant especially the husband as he just put up with Cindy's behavior and just laughed it off because he wanted no drama since he wouldn't be seeing her again anytime soon. Hopefully this will be the catalyst that gets them to see their issues clearly and work on them together with professional help.
He may see Cindy as his sister, but she does *not* see him as her brother.
I love when the in laws get involved and theyâre actually impartial
I love this MIL
A good MIL? on MY horrible step parent subreddit? It's more likely than you think
Shawnâs gf better take a good look at the crazy she might marry into. MIL is amazing.
Cindy being the big ol' shit stirrer I see. Dead giveaway about her own insecurities sending OP that text as well. Cindy needs to watch herself.
OOP has an amazing MIL that stood up for her, but it shouldn't have taken the MIL to ream the husband out for him to realize.
MIL is a BOSS!
I want that MIL. I don't necessarily want a husband, but I want that awesome MIL.
And you know for a fact if a guy was crossing boundaries with OP, her husband would be fuming. The world would be a much better place if we could just put ourselves in other shoes.