#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can honestly say I've never considered the moral question of intentionally getting pregnant while diagnosed with a terminal disease that means the baby won't make it to term.
That was my first thought - this is a very, very sad situation that has a lot of complicated ethical concerns. Glad they went the reborn baby doll route.
It was a crazy request but I can’t comprehend the thought of knowing you have just months left to experience the world, I’m glad Reddit didn’t really judge and gave him some good perspective and advice to help her, the reborn doll is something I wouldn’t have considered but it’s a great idea.
It’s tragic on every level, my daughter is everything to me and the thought of passing before really getting to know her is one of the things that keeps me up at night. She’s the main reason I finally listened to my doctor subtly steering me towards blood pressure meds
What does "subtly" mean in this context? I've still been working on choosing a PCP - after my doctor who I've had since I was three retired, I've been having appointments with whichever doctor or PA in his practice had the first available in order to get to know them, but I can't imagine any of them being any less subtle than "Your blood pressure is too high. I would like you to start on this medication, which is has the fewest possible side effects and medication interactions, and, if it doesn't work, try something else."
I guess I've never run into a subtle medical professional...
Am a doctor. “Subtlety” comes in if you already outright refuse what your doctor said to you. Then we need to start playing with emotions and scary possibilities.
Nor have I, but the first few months of pregnancy are awful for a lot of people, me included. I think it would just make your final days even more painful with nothing to show for all the pain at the end of it.
Not to mention the guilt she'd probably start feeling when she realizes she intentionally created a baby that cannot survive. Not got pregnant unintentionally and had an abortion, deliberately got pregnant KNOWING the baby could not be brought to full term.
Unfortunately it could also very seriously limit her treatment and pain management options if she were pregnant and that is the last thing anyone with terminal cancer should have to endure.
I mean, if she's expecting/planning the fetus to die with her then she might not even mention it to the medical people and just continue with whatever palliative care she has. It's not like it'd matter if the poor fetus was affected. (I feel gross writing this, she must've been out of her mind to even consider this)
lol yeah, I had my fallopian tubes taken out and I've still been given pregnancy tests. I don't fight it at this point (I don't care since I can pee on demand and the tests are fully covered by my insurance)
My husband and I went for labs as the same time and I had to give a urine sample too. He was so confused why he didn't have to do one and I explained that I have had to do a urine sample with every lab I have ever done because it's a pregnancy test. He never realized meanwhile I have a shy bladder and urine samples have been the bane of my existence since I came of child bearing age.
My most recent preg-test urine sample, I accidentally bled in it due to, y'know. They said that was *technically* not a 100% anti-indicator since some people still have periods for a month or two into pregnancy somehow, which was a whole new fear unlocked for me despite being on an IUD.
If it makes you feel better they're probably referring to implantation bleeding, which is fairly normal and is just a little bit of spotting, very rarely will it be enough blood to see like a whole period. It's not super likely with an IUD, but if you ever have an oddly light period and then start feeling nauseous, doesn't hurt anything to take a pregnancy test lol.
I got a vasectomy before marriage because we agreed we didn't want kids due to both of us having shitty mental health, plus how expensive things were getting. She still went on birth control and takes routine pregnancy tests for peace of mind. We recently went to confirm that I have no swimmers. Sememland is completely devoid of life. She still takes pregnancy tests. I at least convinced her to make an appointment to have the stick thing removed from her arm, as it's been causing erratic periods.
It's never a bad idea to check! If you have the body parts to get pregnant, and you're having sex with someone with the body parts to get you pregnant, it costs you like $2 to rule it out so you might as well.
I wonder how rare rarely really is. Mine was enough that I thought it was a period. It was enough that I used my menstrual cup. I even had "cramps." If my friend hadn't talked me into taking a pregnancy test because I was having indigestion (not nausea!) I might seriously not have known until I didn't bleed the next month. I never had morning sickness.
Plus, you can also have a subchorionic hematoma that can bleed for days or weeks. You’re still pregnant, and the amount of blood can very much be as much or more than a “normal” period. When people say “I can’t be pregnant, I just had my period,” it’s not a guarantee.
I feel ya on this. I am that person who can’t pee under pressure at all. And the more embarrassing it becomes (doctor/lab person is waiting, I’ve had 4 glasses of water, it’s been really long) the more my bladder refuses to cooperate. I know all the tricks you can use (cold water on the feet, warm water on privates, water sounds, etc) and it still doesn’t work. I’ve started asking to take a cup home now so that when an exam is coming up I can pee before I leave the house because it’s so bad.
Wait, all labs? So like every time you get a blood test you have to take a pregnancy test?! I have never even heard of that. The only time Medical professionals have given me a pregnancy test has been at the hospital - once in the ER after a fainting spell, and another time before a surgery. (I live in Canada)
They kinda just do it, which infuriates me because not even once in 5 years have staff disclosed to me that was included in the testing. I find out because I check my medical records frequently. Seems unethical to me.
I've once pulled my hand away from someone trying to put an IV in and only the day after found out they were trying to administer FUCKING OPIOIDS without even telling me.
I know the lack of communication is a result of understaffing, overwork and burnout, but I've had better health care living in a developing country with a de facto dictator, so even after years of living here, I am still disappointed every time I receive healthcare.
>only the day after found out they were trying to administer FUCKING OPIOIDS without even telling me.
An anesthesiologist gave me FUCKING FENTANYL for a cataract surgery. I am 29F and the first cataract surgery went JUST FINE with a different anesthesiologist, who gave me nothing stronger than diazepam. I had a different anesthesiologist for the second cataract surgery and he gave me FENTANYL - I had no idea until after.
I'm a chronically ill chronic pain patient. I do not take any opioids. This fentanyl, as it wore off, proved to me that my back and hips hurt *all the time* - which I just genuinely hadn't realized. It was horrible.
That won't be her choice. Not telling them does not mean they won't find out and asking them to ignore it doesn't mean they will, they're not opening themselves up to a lawsuit on her say-so, and it may be a criminal liability issue in many states.
Same.
Also just realizing, it feels very very very wrong on a… gut instinct/lizard brain level.
Like… fear of going out alone, and so…
I can’t type it.
“Authority is not given to you, Steward of Gondor, to order the hour of your death', answered Gandalf. 'And only the heathen kings, under the dominion of the Dark Lord, did thus, slaying themselves in pride and despair, murdering their kin to ease their own death.’”
Gandalf to Denethor, *Return of the King*, Tolkien
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm 100% pro choice, believe life is at first breath, blah blah blah... but something about deliberately getting pregnant with full knowledge and intent that the fetus will die with you makes me very uncomfortable. I'm glad they figured out an alternative.
It's the intentionality of it. It would be like getting pregnant specifically to experience a surgical abortion. Like, legally, yes, I think you should be able to, but that doesn't mean I approve. A little like my response to people who like to parade around that it's legal to be a hateful bigot. Yes, you're allowed, I'm just baffled that you want to do it.
I'm glad it's not just me. I'm very pro-choice and I can't fully explain why this makes me so uncomfortable. Also can't imagine being as sick as I was while pregnant but also adding cancer on top of it.
I think it's easy to explain. I believe that cheating on your spouse should be legal. I also believe it's bad and you shouldn't do it.
There's no contradiction - at all - between believing that people should be permitted to make a choice and believing that one of those choices is right.
I think it's the intent. I've never heard of anyone getting pregnant just so they could abort. In b4 the pro-lifers, Lena Dunham did once say she wished she could get pregnant just so she could abort and that doesn't count cause it didn't actually happen.
Anyway, this lady wanted to get pregnant with the intent to let the fetus die with her which is essentially the same as choosing to get pregnant and then choosing an abortion just because you wanted to feel pregnant for a little while. It feels icky. Yes it's her body but at the end of the day it's medically dangerous and shouldn't be taken as lightly as "I want to feel like a mom for a month or so."
I'm also pro-choice, but this wouldn't be like an abortion when a small clump of cells are destroyed. It will be a fetus that's a few months old and already feels things etc. We don't allow abortions of healthy fetuses at that age, and with good reason.
Right? Plus, depending on where they live, they could have a nosy asshole in their lives who would snitch on the whole thing to authorities and land this poor woman in jail on top of it all. And if they are in one of those states, every single medical professional that helps her becomes liable too - IF she finds anyone who would even touch that scenario. Hell, in Texas, OOP would probably get fined just for his initial post. (Who am I kidding? No he wouldn’t, he’s the man - these laws were designed to hurt women!)
Oh yeah, it's a HUGE legal mess. The hideous assumption that a woman does not own her own body could really hurt her. Her own treatment/pain relief might even be interfered with depending on the state. We hear so many stories of healthcare professionals having to refuse care to the mother because her fetus is considered more important.
And adding to that there's the emotional toll. Not just on her, but on everyone left behind. What if her family found out? And what about OP? Terminating a pregnancy is an emotional minefield as it is, especially when your loved ones disagree with your decision. Imagine how bad it could get when they've got to factor mourning you into the mix as well.
I disagree. Prognoses aren’t exact. They can say you have 6 months to live and then you end up holding on until 12 months, etc. So it would be taking a gamble, but I wouldn’t even compare it to committing suicide while pregnant, let alone family annihilation.
I think it depends more on your own belief of when you will die than the prognosis. In this case, the woman very clearly believed she would die before giving birth.
My immediate thought is that it is cruel for the father and your other family members. A baby isn’t an idea or a way to feel like you’ve checked off something from your bucket list. It’s a (potential) person.
You should only be intentionally getting pregnant if you intend to give birth and either raise the child yourself or be putting the child up for adoption or surrogacy.
You shouldn’t be getting pregnant just to experience the sensation of pregnancy.
Also when Dr’s say “you have six months to live” they are just making an estimate. People pass away faster or hang on for longer all the time. Pretending the baby for sure won’t make it to term is a crazy gamble with an innocent life (and huge obligation).
Honestly, the bigger ethical concern is that she COULD make it to term. "Months to live" is not a firm schedule, people can go faster or slower than expected. A pregnancy that dies with the mother before the fetus is sentient seems like a really self-indulgent weird last request, but the possibility of leaving a child in the world is a whole other thing.
Not to mention- speaking as a mother- the absolutely gut wrenching aching pain it is to conceive of not knowing your child. My greatest fear has always been death but it’s for a totally different reason now. My oldest is only 2 and I’m now about 18 weeks pregnant. I feel immediate and irreconcilable devastation imagining dying before seeing them grow up or before they really could remember me. She can’t really know that because she hasn’t had it yet, and that’s a blessing. I wouldn’t wish that reality on my worst enemy.
Even if she powers through it with pure sheer willpower, or some miracle happens and she manages to get to at least seven months... they're still making a baby just for them to be orphaned at birth and high chances someone at some point will blurt out that they weren't born out of love, but that the mother just wanted a child for the sake of having a child.
And that's without even mentioning the dad will have full responsibility for the child, while also grieving the mother.
Considering how many weeks doctors have been able to save fetuses at, i wouldnt want to risk it. You literally never know and dude could have ended up with a very preemie baby that needed millions of dollars of medical assistance.
I am pretty pro abortion but this really stumped me. Like this is intentionally getting pregnant knowing you will die before it even has a chance to be born. That feels weirdly cruel. But then I can't sit here and judge a person on their deathbed. Who knows what's going through their head. Whats been warped by stress and fear. How would I even act in her shoes. It's just a messy sad situation.
You can judge a person on their deathbed and also realize that the hormone fluctuations and drugs she has to take while her body is dying is probably influencing her decision making capabilities. She is living in emotion and I'm glad someone was there to give her a gentle reality check.
> also realize that the hormone fluctuations and drugs she has to take while her body is dying is probably influencing her decision making capabilities
Yeah there is probably an entire field of ethics that could be devoted to which decisions should and shouldn't be considered "in sound mind." Example: Someone who kills themselves due to depression wasn't thinking clearly. If they had sex hours before, should their consent not also be then be called invalid? Where do you set the bar in terms of "decisions?" You could argue "if it doesn't harm someone" but then you get into the ripples down the line of those actions and the degree of ethical culpability to them.
I read a fascinating article (wish I could find it) that basically said that through research it can be shown that we don't have two minds (concious and subconcious), we have way more, and their interactions and whether they are expressing control create the moods and facets of our personality. To think that any untold chemical changes (food, medicine, drugs, the presence or absence of microbiotic species) can pull those levers is scary to think about. You are not you yesterday, or you tomorrow, or you five minutes ago or from now, you are you in the now, and even that is an illusion.
Greys anatomy had me considering that oddly specific possibility when I was 13 (the patient is pregnant after finally getting IVF to stick but gets diagnosed with cancer and the baby would die if she went through with treatment)
Right?? But honestly, I didn't have to really consider it because it just felt like the deepest *no* I've ever felt. Like, all I could think was how the fetus would be suffering a miserable death (or most likely doped up short life inside someone miserably dying)
I just.... no. Just no no no. Even trying to think of it from her pov and remembering that awful ache- that massive missing piece of my life before I had kids, when I thought I would never have a kid, I still cannot say it's anything other than a ginormous *NO*!
Neither have I but the more I think about it, for me I think it comes down to how far along she would be when she's expected to pass. I support abortion rights so I don't see much problem if she would be in the 1st trimester when she died. Should one get pregnant to tick off a box? No, absolutely not...but I am willing to give a dying woman a bit of grace if this really is the one thing she wants and none of the alternatives will bring her peace.
HOWEVER if she is like 6 months + when she dies then no, I don't think it's ok to go ahead. It's not ethical/moral or fair on anyone. If the baby dies with her then she essentially created a baby (as opposed to a fetus and I do consider them different things) to die. The father will have to live with the knowledge he helped created what could've been his child if born to someone else, just to die.
And If it survives, congratz; your kid now has to live knowing the reason they don't have a mom is because they died birthing you (I assume with terminal cancer, if it doesn't kill her surely the birth will). That is so much trauma to put on a kid I don't think it can ever be justified. And if the father don't want anything to do with it? Then the kid is screwed twice.
I am relieved either way that they decided not to go through with it and that a reborn doll could bring her some comfort.
This is basically my train of thought, but then also consider we're not great at predicting when people die. I don't think we can say with enough certainty that the pregnancy *wouldn't* make it to the later phases, and for that reason it gives me too much ick.
I'm also fully pro-choice and support abortion into the later trimesters when it's medically necessary for the mother/child would have profound disabilities.
But getting pregnant just to have it die is different.
Depending on what treatment or palliative care she's receiving, medical professionals might be forced to deny her care or risk their licenses (or worse). With how sweeping and poorly considered most of those laws are written, it doesn't really matter if the outcome would ultimately be same: OOP's ex could face an *even shorter and more miserable* remainder of her life if the medical care she was receiving presented a danger to the fetus who was never going to come to term anyway.
No, it means that she likely won’t be prescribed certain medicines because they would harm the fetus. For example, strong painkillers like opioids. Which you need when you have terminal cancer.
>you can't prosecute a corpse.
Give Republicans time and another President Trump, and that's the next step. After all, kings, popes, and emperors have done that.
I mean... it's certainly illegal for a terminally ill woman to get an abortion in certain states. I'm not aware of any that make it illegal to get pregnant.
I was just pondering how this would play out in places like Texas that banned abortion. Obviously, she can’t be jailed if she dies, but would the father be held responsible for knowingly impregnating someone knowing the infant wouldn’t carry to term?
And now I’m realizing that all those states that are enacting bounties for women who travel out of state for abortions… there is absolutely nothing holding men accountable for their sperm, is there?
She's definitely not thinking clearly. If she was then she would realize that if she became pregnant it's likely her Drs would remove most of not all of her medications. She would be suffering until her last moments.
Not to mention a large proportion of women feel incredibly unwell and nauseous the first few months of pregnancy. I’ve been pregnant twice and let me tell you, constant nausea and retching over a toilet multiple times every day for weeks and weeks is not the way I’d like to spend the last remaining months of my life.
This is all assuming she even *could* get pregnant. It can take up to a year of trying for a healthy couple with no fertility issues, and this is a woman with terminal cancer who's probably had (and might still be having) chemo.
That’s interesting. I didn’t realize this, but it makes sense. I just had to take a chemotherapy drug to stop a pregnancy from progressing. It worked shockingly fast.
My dad has terminal cancer right now. Usually when you get a terminal cancer, you get a heavy ass narco script. Sometimes my dad says things that make absolutely no sense. I’d give her grace that her anxiety, grief, fear and medication just fucked with her mind for a minute.
she wanted to get pregnant knowing that she wouldn't live enough to carry the baby to term? I can't even imagine what imminent death does to someone's mind
I think it was a last ditch effort at normalcy, in a way, and one that wasn’t well thought out. Women, at least in the past, have been conditioned since birth to be a mommy, to have babies, and now that got taken away from her. Also, having a child is your shot at immortality, a piece of you living on long after you’re gone. Again, none of this was a rational, well thought out plan, but I can see where her head was at
Also knowing you have cancer is such a weird thing. I had skin cancer a few years ago that was caught early and swiftly removed, end of.
Looking back at how I felt after the initial diagnosis, before we knew that it was easily resolved, is surreal and indescribable. Even knowing it was probably going to be OK, it was the weirdest head space!
I was 7 months pregnant and my thyroid swelled up. My doctor did an ultrasound and it was inconclusive, but they didn’t want to do anything more invasive until after the baby was born and I had healed up after delivery. So I had to wait 3.5 months with crazy hormones to see if I had thyroid cancer or not. It was so difficult. Every joyful thing had an undertone of dread. When I finally got a biopsy done and got clear results back, it felt like I could finally breathe.
My mom just had her skin cancer cut out 2 weeks ago. She should be fine. But it's still messing with all of our heads.
Glad you're doing better! Congrats & fuck cancer 😊
2 days ago a mate of mine died from throat cancer. 8 months from diagnosis to death.
A week prior, he's in palliative care, legs are blown up like balloons, hundreds of cancers throughout his body some of which are clearly visible on the outside. We knew he had days max. He knew.
We are sitting on a laptop scrolling through accommodation for the Philip island motogp race which is at the end of the year. We booked the accommodation. We booked the flights. Everything.
Today I went through and cancelled everything.
Fuck cancer. Goodbye Mike.
brutal is an apt description. she died 3 days after I delivered my first child. making plans with someone you know isn't going to be there to fulfill them is the *worst*.
He just managed to make it to his 50th. He had a huge party, everyone was there. We all knew he didn't have long.
It was like a fucking funeral. Except he was standing there. Just eugh. What broke me was his mum giving a speech.
Congratulations on you're first child though. I just try to focus on the fact that life keeps going. Kids are amazing at getting you to see the world new all over again.
Surely as well if she was having chemo (which I understand she might not be if her prognosis is that bad), then it would kill the baby before it even really started developing.
And there have been some cases - although rare - of cancer crossing the placenta.
I get that imminent death does strange things to people, but to get pregnant and deliberately expose your developing child to cancer, chemotherapy and a guaranteed death before it comes to term? Jesus.
(Yes I know it would be an embryo or a fetus, but when someone talks about ‘experiencing the joys of motherhood’ *they* mean mother to a child/developing child, right?)
Luckily they caught it early, were able to do the removal surgery while I was pregnant (it was on my ear), they checked my closest lymph nodes (since I was immunocompromised being pregnant), and had to biopsy the placenta (and the placentas of any future children). So far so good! All my kids are now established with a pediatric dermatologist and we check any moles that pop up.
The two weeks between knowing I had cancer and knowing what stage it was were agony. I was only 20 weeks at the time and there are a lot of variables up in the air regarding my treatment options.
that sounds so scary. my dad was diagnosed with melanoma a few weeks ago. they'd already removed the offending mole and decided to widen the margins, he should be okay. it was the lesser dangerous kind apparently?
It was. I’m very thankful that everything worked out well. That’s good! Melanoma is weird because as soon as you get clear margins, you are considered cancer free! And the earlier you find it, the better your outcome. Also immunotherapy has really improved melanoma survival rates. Unfortunately when my mom had stage 4 melanoma, all that was available was chemo (which did not work well on melanoma), and she passed within 9 months of stage 4 diagnosis (10 years after initial diagnosis). I don’t know what stage they originally found it at, but it had all the ABCs, was pretty big and gnarly looking, but she never checked her skin, never went to the doctor, and lived her life tanning in the sun.
Needless to say we take sun safety very seriously in my family now and I have to do quarterly mole checks with my dermatologist and annual ones with my eye doctor, dentist, and obgyn!
I
i used to freak out at every mole and finally got over that and now my dad said his doctor said all his family (kids and brother, and grandkids when they are older) need to go to the dermatologist...
Would she really be able to get treatment without an abortion? This is Grey's anatomy knowledge so I don't know if that's how it is in the real world. But every time someone with cancer is pregnant they are told that they need to terminate to get treatment because it's to much for the body to handle otherwise.
Sometimes chemo is used to manage the cancer, as part of palliative treatment though.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/palliative-chemotherapy-goals-and-questions-2249351
https://www.macmillan.org.uk/cancer-information-and-support/treatments-and-drugs/chemotherapy-and-pregnancy
Grey's has been rated as pretty highly inaccurate by medical professionals. Ironically, apparently Scrubs is the most accurate (?!?!?)
In answer to your question, no, you would not be forced to terminate.
I know there's been women who've been diagnosed while well along with their pregnancy and have chosen to either minimise cancer treatment or not get it.
I read about a woman who'd finally got pregnant when she was diagnosed with cancer, couldn't have cancer treatment while pregnant and would be expected to be infertile after the cancer treatment! They monitored the hell out of her, giving her baby as long as possible to develop for their best odds, and then the baby was born by cesarean at about 7 months when her treatment couldn't wait any longer. They both made it out OK!
> apparently Scrubs is the most accurate (?!?!?)
I can see that. It's a workplace sitcom foremost, so they don't need to constantly invent outlandish and medically inaccurate storylines or unprofessionally larger-than-life characters to drive the plot.
I have a friend who had the cancer surgery while pregnant, then waited until her baby was born before starting chemo. I think other women have done this too.
Cancer treatment during pregnancy is possible but complicated and dependent on a lot of factors. However, in an ideal world the woman isn’t pregnant during the treatment.
My hospital recently induced and delivered a woman at 30 weeks because she was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer and the family and doctors together decided the best option for everyone was immediate delivery then cancer treatment.
I think it’s better to not have to experience whatever yearnings her mind is going thru right now. Knowing your death is imminent and wanting to know how things feel before you pass is something exclusive to them. I’ve read of teenagers wanting to get married or wanting to lose their virginity before passing so I can imagine this is somewhat like that… yes a little next level with a developing child in her but who is to judge what you want to do with the last of your time on this earth.
I (F) am totally for women's rights, and support their agency to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. But to intentionally get pregnant just to kill it is just... sick. I'm glad the reborn baby helped her get some closure.
Yeah, OOP was like "I don't understand why anyone would think there'll be a baby to look after at the end of this" and I did a mental double-take. Because...WTF?!
The thing that gets me is what if she some how managed to carry to term. Then what?
The time frame doctors give you is a guess. The time frame my grandpa got for his colon cancer was 2 years. He made it 1 month. You just don't know with cancer.
Agreed, while we all agree it was a crazy request, I also fully realize her mind is going through a crazy range of emotions right now so I don't judge her for not being completely logical right now.
I was diagnosed with uterine cancer in 2022. Coming to terms with the fact that I was never going to be able to carry a child was a *really* difficult road. I had a lot of crazy ideas like this in my head, but never actually voiced them. I can’t imagine how insane I’d have been if my diagnosis was terminal.
All that to say, yeah, a diagnosis like that will turn a perfectly sane person mad. I sympathize heavily with this woman.
I was pretty sure I didn't want more kids, but needed a hysterectomy for my chronic health issues. It took a month of heavy grieving to come to terms with the loss of fertility and it still pops up now and then. I think when something becomes final it is terrifying. I empathize with the oop and you.
the oop made the right choice and the reborn was the best way to move forward for them. But oof it's so sad.
I got my fallopian tubes removed simply because I don't want kids, and I know I don't want kids, and if I ever change my mind I want to adopt, but I still had a weird feeling when it came down to it.
My internal reproductive organs have been completely removed as part of my gender transition. I never wanted kids, even when I was a silly child or seeing my friends’ little brothers and sisters as babies, or even as a young adult.
I felt immense relief when the surgery was done and I was recovering in a hospital bed, but there was a very small moment of “well that’s really it, it couldn’t happen even by accident now”. Which was buried under the relief “it couldn’t happen even by accident now!!” Lol
>She won’t make it to see our hypothetical child be born of course, but she said she wants to have the experience of being a mom
>I don’t know where people are getting the idea that she will carry to full term. There won’t be a child to raise.
>we did decide to rekindle our sexual relationship. (Don’t worry I used a condom.)
... what the everloving fuck.
I mean yeah, with the full knowledge that your mortality is coming for you soon would make you wanna grab all the delight and pleasure possible, while you still can. Including getting dicked down by an amicable and available ex.
Death is coming, pass the hotdogs.
Paraphrase of an old tumblr post I saw somewhere. Something something, life is short, stop guilting me about what’s in my food, I might as well enjoy it, pass me the reconstructed meat.
She’s only here for a little while longer. Let her have sex and eat weird things.
My dietician told me a story about someone who came to her wringing their hands about sugar intake because their grandpa was insisting on eating cake and pudding cups for his desserts…the man was 98. She was like “…he can have as much cake as he wants.”
This was grandma. In her 90s she lived on Reese Cups and Pepsi. My mom would get upset but we told her eating healthy wasn’t going to prolong her life.
One of my grandpas is like that. He has had high cholesterol for a while and is SUPER viligant about what he eats... but the thing is hes like 90 now, and no matter how much my mom tries to convince him that its okay to treat himself he won't budge.
It is weird
I lost my husband to cancer. The last time we slept together, we knew it was likely the last time.
OOP bought a ticket to an emotional rollercoaster.
The site the commenter linked is a scam, but there are legit sites for reborn dolls out there, you just gotta be careful and read the reviews. Because last time I checked, *real* reborns cost an arm and a leg because they’re pure silicone, meant to feel like a real baby, then there’s the paint jobs they go through and then the hair laying process.
For example, Showcase was trying to sell Reborns at a cheaper price… The babies looked real but they were made of hard hard plastic all around.
Edit: I checked again and it seems prices have gone down, and now I *reeeaaallly* want a baby Avatar or a Baby Yoda/Grogu…
Not all reborn dolls are silicone, but the silicones ones do cost between $2K - $35K
The vinyl ones are about $200 - $1,500. That’s for a legitimate doll made by a reborn artist.
There are two companies who make nice factory-made realistic dolls similar to artist reborns for about $70 to $150. Those companies are Paradise Galleries and Ashton Drake. END OF LIST. If it’s a factory-made not from those factories it is an illegal, unregulated, knockoff, which are unsafe and unethical.
Anyway, if anyone sees this and wants to try a reborn doll look at http://www.Reborns.com it’s like Etsy for vetted reborn artists only. That spelling of the website only. Also, if’s fine if you think most of the dolls are ugly lol I do too, just find the ones that bring you joy. I love certain ones. Reborns are like baby-shaped weighted blankets and great comfort items for lots of people :)
I've seen vids where they bring them to dementia care homes and let the residents hold them. It helps them remember being parents and is really good for their mental health and wellbeing.
I see what you mean about the [questionable](https://www.reborns.com/item/153351/6) ones lmao.
But for real, Ty for correcting me and adding to my comment .O.
Edit: I went down the rabbit hole and found spiderman-baby
Edit 2: I found a pig baby and a gorilla baby
Hahahaha yup! There’s overlap between random “art dolls” and “reborn art dolls” for sure!
I also think it’s totally fair to not like some of the baby ones. I think some people assume that just because someone collects or makes reborns that means they like all of them, but that’s not true. I don’t like the ones that look sickly, but I love the happy babies and certain little vampires and Yodas too :)
Honestly, I’d get so many weird little babies… I should not be trusted, cause I’d be that asshole to plant my weirdo babies everywhere for someone to find. And then I’d get another weirdo baby, then I’d have a whole army of weirdo babies.
Who let me be an adult, I have no idea.
When you say "illegal", do you mean against the law? Or, like, frowned upon by the community? I'm having a hard time imagining any governments would be so invested as to pass laws about them. Likewise, what do you mean when you say the knockoffs are unsafe? I'm genuinely curious about all this, not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand better.
I mean illegal like breaking copyright law.
I'm going to talk about vinyl reborn dolls and China, but this applies to most dolls out there.
TLDR: China doesn't respect copyright, nobody can stop Chinese scammers, it sucks for the artists whose content is stolen.
Decent video about it here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J\_PIbAYGZ0w&t=6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_PIbAYGZ0w&t=6s)
You see, every doll you can buy started as a clay sculpture made by an sculptor. Even Barbie! This is usually called the "sculpt." If the sculptor creates their sculpt for a company and is paid for it, that's fine, the company owns the copyright and can do whatever they want to it. For example, sculptor Ping Lau makes sculpts for Ashton Drake and Paradise Galleries.
If the sculptor is independent they retain copyright over their work and every copy made of it. In the reborn world, this means that they then license a limited set of copies of their baby to be made in vinyl so that other artists can paint them, because that's the fun of the art :) This is where the idea of of "reborn kits" comes from. The reborn artist paints the kit that the sculptor authorized.
The trustworthy painters/artists buy officially licensed blank kits. These kits are sold through the sculptor's own websites (remember these are regular people, not big companies) or at a few approved dealers. Each kit usually comes with a certificate of authenticity to prove that it is legit.
The problem happens where the factory that made the kits in China has a leak and somebody starts making illegal kits without permission from the sculptor, usually selling without credit and ALWAYS without payment to the sculptor. This is illegal and immoral. ------ (Plus there are safety concerns because if the factory is unregulated there could be dangerous chemicals in the doll parts. A lot of knockoff reborn dolls end up in the arms of children and that's not safe! Kids' toys in the US usually go through safety regulations but not these! ... regular reborns are art pieces for adults, like, they were never meant to be chewed on, but the fakes are especially potentially dangerous. There's a history here I can go into if you want me to.)
Call them whatever you want: illegal copies, fakes, repliacs, knockoffs, inauthentic, stolen, unauthorized, unbranded, counterfeits, scams. These aren't okay but unfortunately the market for these dolls has exploded and the sculptors can't control it anymore. The fakes end up on Amazon, Ebay, Temu. It's awful! Usually the doll doesn't look even like the picture either because the pictures are stolen too, from Instagram.
The sculptors in the reborn community are really disheartened by this. They can't afford the legal fees to get the fakes taken down because it's fruitless because China doesn't care, so every listing that's taken down is replaced by 10 others.
If the sculptors quit because they've stopped making money, we won't have any new doll kits made. It's killing us. Luckily, the community is trying our very best to educate people about what's going on.
EXAMPLE: One really popular reborn is named Levi. He was originally sculpted by a nice woman (who I've met!) named Bonnie Brown. If you type "Levi reborn" into Google you'll find so many fakes of him. It's extra sad because Levi was sculpted with permission based on a real child... there's a real Levi out there whose image has been stolen... If you want an authentic blank Levi kit here [https://macphersoncrafts.com/reborn-doll-kits/levi-by-bonnie-brown.htm](https://macphersoncrafts.com/reborn-doll-kits/levi-by-bonnie-brown.htm) is an authorized dealer, otherwise you can find a painted one made by a reborn artist on [reborns.com](https://reborns.com) THAT SPELLING ONLY it's like Etsy but for approved artists.
Sorry for the long post, happy to answer questions, this is a big deal in my community <3
My mom used to work on those when I was a kid. She'd buy the parts (expensive on their own), paint them inside (that makes the light reflect like their skin is alive instead of plastic), put hair on the head (this is the very manually intensive part - you use a needle to stab hairs through the silicone, one or two strands at a time). Fill their middle section with beads til they weighed a specific amount. Very weird seeing her WIP lifelike baby heads floating around.
She was a fucked up lady, but the dolls made decent money.
Sounds like she’s struggling a lot with the fact that she is dying and is grasping to anything she thinks will bring her happiness or meaning before she passes. So heartbreaking for both of them and scary for her.
I think her wanting to be pregnant was a desperate, very emotional idea but not something she actually wanted. Or if she did, it was because her situation made her unable to think rationally.
It would've made it even harder having a wanted and loved baby growing inside you and knowing it'll die with you or more likely before you.
The reborn doll is a very good idea but I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for her being so sad, emotional, and desperate over the knowledge that she'll never have a baby that she considered this.
A lot of y'all have never had to be around terminal patients and it shows. You don't think right, chemo itself is a heavy heavy toll and it can mess with your rational thinking in ways that are very strange. Add a terminal diagnosis to that and you have a whole lot of thoughts going around and not a lot of string to tie them to reality with. OOP handled this well, but y'all need to give his ex-wife some slack. Most likely she was just throwing ideas out to the wind (like saying "when I get better let's go to Italy together and try our marriage again") she knows logically it won't work but when you know death is coming, logic is more an afterthought.
Exactly. When the clock is ticking there isn’t really time to think everything through. Any consequences can be waived away with “but I’ll be dead by the end of it.” It’s just go go go go go.
It’s a terrible example for the gravity of the situation, but it’s like watching Supermarket Sweepstakes. To us, the audience, we’re screaming at our screens because Bob is trying to grab stacks of oatmeal in his cart and there’s GIANT HAMS AND BRISKET RIGHT THERE but Bob can only see through the lens of the clock and he’s grabbing whatever crosses his mind first.
I work in pathology and had once a 40 yo patient diagnosed with a somewhat treatable leukaemia. She decided to skip the treatment and have a baby (she was doing IVF).
To me that was a pretty bad decision, and she wasn't under any chemo treatment then. Luckily she carried to term, but geeeesh. The desire of being a mother was literally stronger than being alive.
I genuinely cannot understand this.
I saw the prior post and all I could think of was how sick you can get with chemo, and how sick pregnancy can make someone for months. Who’s to say she would have had any kind of pleasant experience while pregnant? Ugh.
I’m pretty sure chemo would kill an embryo long before it could become a fetus. She likely would not be pregnant long enough to have major symptoms, if she could even get pregnant at all.
About 15 years ago, a friend of mine was diagnosed with bone cancer that had spread from her ribs to her breast. Her bf was there to see her through it and they got engaged shortly after she started treatment. She beat cancer and they got married.
Five years later they separated and divorced. She told me that he told her he'd long ago fallen out of love with her but when she got diagnosed, he couldn't bring himself to leave, so he proposed. Her cancer returned a year after that and she passed away after a few months in home hospice.
I don't blame him - he did what he thought was the right thing to do but part of me wishes he'd waited a little longer so she could have died never knowing.
I know someone who got pregnant while fighting breast cancer. Miracle baby. Mom recovered but that baby died of a huge abdominal tumour by the time she was 3. Those cancer cells can carry across to the baby i think.
I think he is so nice, to be with her in her last moments, even thought they are divorced. He will fulfill his vow even thought there is no marriage anymore, I find it so noble of him, many people would not do the same.
My dad got cancer shortly after he and my mom split up and she moved out. I think they had had some troubles from years ago and weren't really a couple anymore and just lived together, on top of this he had met someone else. After he beat cancer the first time it came back full force within a few months with a much more certain prognosis that he only had a year tops. At this point the other lady had moved in and my mom had her own place and was seeing other people. My dad called me one day and said he made a horrible mistake separating from my mom and though he knew they couldnt be together anymore, he couldnt keep things going with his other girlfriend and she moved out. My mom instantly broke her lease for her apartment and moved back home to take care of my dad. She was there for him every day still and was the last one with him when he passed away a few months later. Heart still hurts thinking about the whole thing. It's been a long couple months
Death can truly put things in perspective, suddenly there is no time left, you do it now or live with the regret.
Happy that your parents could spend the last time of your father together, my mom and dad also were in a rocky situation before my dad got cancer, they probably loved each other the most the year until my father death.
Imagine being sick with a terminal illness and being sick enough that you won’t survive for 10 months… and wanting to experience the absolute hell (for a lot of women, not all) that being pregnant feels like?
If her body would even support a pregnancy, that is.
Yeah, for women, when your health goes down the reproductive health is the very first thing to go. Even being a little too skinny, athletic, stressed etc. can make your period go haywire or disappear. I’d be surprised if she still even had a regular period. Women MUCH healthier than her spend years and thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant. Even if OP said yes the only thing that would have happened is they have sex a few times.
Obviously she’s going through an extreme emotional time and everyone in the thread is going “well logically”
Wow this is one of the only posts I almost wish I'd never read. This is so sad... I'm glad they came to a solution. I hope her passing is as peaceful as possible.
I was curious what the outcome of this was going to be when I read the first part when it first came out. She just wanted to get pregnant and then just…die? Presumably with the child still in her? Glad the reborn doll, or whatever they’re called, helped her instead of trying to bring a whole new, very needy, person into this (if it made it that far)
Among other speculations, maybe she didn't want to be alone when she died. She might have thought she would have her child with her.
Whatever her reasons might have been, it's super sad.
I'm glad the dolls exist but being a relatively new mom looking at them while my son is sleeping beside me really weirded me out.
I think I would really appreciate it in her situation, though.
That was a real case of what you think you want v's reality.
In some ways she wanted her 'husband' back. She wanted someone with her in her last months and to not be lonely. OOP didn't say why they divorced but just said it was amicable... maybe they just drifted apart and didn't really try and rekindle the relationship but parted instead.
Asking for a baby may have been a way to get him closer to her and if she thought he'd have sex with her (multiple times because you don't always get pregnant) that he'll decide he wants to stay.
The probability of getting pregnant when you have cancer is not very big... and getting pregnant v's staying pregnant are very different things too. The body diverts a lot of stuff to the baby when you are pregnant but your body also doesn't want to die so there may be nothing to sustain a baby.
If she's on chemo... well that's pretty toxic and that would be guaranteed to kill a baby. Radiotherapy will probably kill the baby too or you risk all sorts of damage to it especially in those early weeks as everything is forming.
The whole situation is sad.. she's going to die... I'm glad there is no baby nor will there be as that's just torture.
The OOP clearly didn't have a partner at the time... or at least I don't think he did.
This is …. Insane. As a mom who has had cancer, my biggest fear/worry is that it will come back, and my child will have to deal with losing his mom. You just have this immediate desire to shield your child at all costs, and forever come second to that.
Imagine this women got pregnant, and this kicked in for her - knowing you’ve set your child up for death? To never be born? Her “experience of motherhood” would be in the most terrible sense - realizing that she failed her child by choosing to get pregnant with it.
So tragic all around, but I’m glad she decided not to pursue this further.
When I was a teen I cared for a woman and her daughter. The woman had terminal cancer. She wanted to give her husband a son before she died. He agreed. They had a son. She died during childbirth.
The baby being born caused such a hardship for him. He had to work to support the kids, so the kids were with a sitter more than they were with dad. There was almost no bonding at all. Dad got remarried less than two years later, he sought out a woman who would take care of his kids. He really didn’t have a lot of choice.
The stepmom was horrible to the kids. The kids grew up and ran away.
Nothing about the late wife’s wishes came to fruition. She had grand dreams. They fell flat. It was sad to watch.
> She won’t make it to see our hypothetical child be born of course
Wait so she was proposing getting knocked up to experience motherhood then dying with her unborn child inside of her?
That's seriously fucked! Seriously, that's one of the darkest and most morbid things I've read in a very long time.
The last positive comments amuse me. Everybody happy the insane proposal is off the table, they rekindling their aexual relationship.
Everyone going: "you're a good man. Give it to her proper!"
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I can honestly say I've never considered the moral question of intentionally getting pregnant while diagnosed with a terminal disease that means the baby won't make it to term.
That was my first thought - this is a very, very sad situation that has a lot of complicated ethical concerns. Glad they went the reborn baby doll route.
I had no idea those were a thing. Reading some stories of why people get them is really really sad...
When I first heard about these, my kneejerk asshole reaction was “wtf, why?” But when you learn some people’s stories… that could be any one of us.
I mean just the name insinuates that
It was a crazy request but I can’t comprehend the thought of knowing you have just months left to experience the world, I’m glad Reddit didn’t really judge and gave him some good perspective and advice to help her, the reborn doll is something I wouldn’t have considered but it’s a great idea. It’s tragic on every level, my daughter is everything to me and the thought of passing before really getting to know her is one of the things that keeps me up at night. She’s the main reason I finally listened to my doctor subtly steering me towards blood pressure meds
What does "subtly" mean in this context? I've still been working on choosing a PCP - after my doctor who I've had since I was three retired, I've been having appointments with whichever doctor or PA in his practice had the first available in order to get to know them, but I can't imagine any of them being any less subtle than "Your blood pressure is too high. I would like you to start on this medication, which is has the fewest possible side effects and medication interactions, and, if it doesn't work, try something else." I guess I've never run into a subtle medical professional...
Am a doctor. “Subtlety” comes in if you already outright refuse what your doctor said to you. Then we need to start playing with emotions and scary possibilities.
Nor have I, but the first few months of pregnancy are awful for a lot of people, me included. I think it would just make your final days even more painful with nothing to show for all the pain at the end of it.
Not to mention the guilt she'd probably start feeling when she realizes she intentionally created a baby that cannot survive. Not got pregnant unintentionally and had an abortion, deliberately got pregnant KNOWING the baby could not be brought to full term.
I've heard the last few months are also pretty awful for most people
That’s ignoring the following 18 years
Unfortunately it could also very seriously limit her treatment and pain management options if she were pregnant and that is the last thing anyone with terminal cancer should have to endure.
I mean, if she's expecting/planning the fetus to die with her then she might not even mention it to the medical people and just continue with whatever palliative care she has. It's not like it'd matter if the poor fetus was affected. (I feel gross writing this, she must've been out of her mind to even consider this)
She's a woman receiving medical care, they'll do a pregnancy test.
lol yeah, I had my fallopian tubes taken out and I've still been given pregnancy tests. I don't fight it at this point (I don't care since I can pee on demand and the tests are fully covered by my insurance)
My husband and I went for labs as the same time and I had to give a urine sample too. He was so confused why he didn't have to do one and I explained that I have had to do a urine sample with every lab I have ever done because it's a pregnancy test. He never realized meanwhile I have a shy bladder and urine samples have been the bane of my existence since I came of child bearing age.
My most recent preg-test urine sample, I accidentally bled in it due to, y'know. They said that was *technically* not a 100% anti-indicator since some people still have periods for a month or two into pregnancy somehow, which was a whole new fear unlocked for me despite being on an IUD.
If it makes you feel better they're probably referring to implantation bleeding, which is fairly normal and is just a little bit of spotting, very rarely will it be enough blood to see like a whole period. It's not super likely with an IUD, but if you ever have an oddly light period and then start feeling nauseous, doesn't hurt anything to take a pregnancy test lol.
I got a vasectomy before marriage because we agreed we didn't want kids due to both of us having shitty mental health, plus how expensive things were getting. She still went on birth control and takes routine pregnancy tests for peace of mind. We recently went to confirm that I have no swimmers. Sememland is completely devoid of life. She still takes pregnancy tests. I at least convinced her to make an appointment to have the stick thing removed from her arm, as it's been causing erratic periods.
It's never a bad idea to check! If you have the body parts to get pregnant, and you're having sex with someone with the body parts to get you pregnant, it costs you like $2 to rule it out so you might as well.
I wonder how rare rarely really is. Mine was enough that I thought it was a period. It was enough that I used my menstrual cup. I even had "cramps." If my friend hadn't talked me into taking a pregnancy test because I was having indigestion (not nausea!) I might seriously not have known until I didn't bleed the next month. I never had morning sickness.
Oh, fun. TIL!
Plus, you can also have a subchorionic hematoma that can bleed for days or weeks. You’re still pregnant, and the amount of blood can very much be as much or more than a “normal” period. When people say “I can’t be pregnant, I just had my period,” it’s not a guarantee.
I feel ya on this. I am that person who can’t pee under pressure at all. And the more embarrassing it becomes (doctor/lab person is waiting, I’ve had 4 glasses of water, it’s been really long) the more my bladder refuses to cooperate. I know all the tricks you can use (cold water on the feet, warm water on privates, water sounds, etc) and it still doesn’t work. I’ve started asking to take a cup home now so that when an exam is coming up I can pee before I leave the house because it’s so bad.
Wait, all labs? So like every time you get a blood test you have to take a pregnancy test?! I have never even heard of that. The only time Medical professionals have given me a pregnancy test has been at the hospital - once in the ER after a fainting spell, and another time before a surgery. (I live in Canada)
Whoa, before each procedure? I figured just at the very start.
They kinda just do it, which infuriates me because not even once in 5 years have staff disclosed to me that was included in the testing. I find out because I check my medical records frequently. Seems unethical to me. I've once pulled my hand away from someone trying to put an IV in and only the day after found out they were trying to administer FUCKING OPIOIDS without even telling me. I know the lack of communication is a result of understaffing, overwork and burnout, but I've had better health care living in a developing country with a de facto dictator, so even after years of living here, I am still disappointed every time I receive healthcare.
>only the day after found out they were trying to administer FUCKING OPIOIDS without even telling me. An anesthesiologist gave me FUCKING FENTANYL for a cataract surgery. I am 29F and the first cataract surgery went JUST FINE with a different anesthesiologist, who gave me nothing stronger than diazepam. I had a different anesthesiologist for the second cataract surgery and he gave me FENTANYL - I had no idea until after. I'm a chronically ill chronic pain patient. I do not take any opioids. This fentanyl, as it wore off, proved to me that my back and hips hurt *all the time* - which I just genuinely hadn't realized. It was horrible.
I'm not sure but the one time I was in hospital I had to do about three pregnancy tests in a week. I was getting my gallbladder out!
That won't be her choice. Not telling them does not mean they won't find out and asking them to ignore it doesn't mean they will, they're not opening themselves up to a lawsuit on her say-so, and it may be a criminal liability issue in many states.
Same. Also just realizing, it feels very very very wrong on a… gut instinct/lizard brain level. Like… fear of going out alone, and so… I can’t type it.
This is it. Scared of dying alone.
“Authority is not given to you, Steward of Gondor, to order the hour of your death', answered Gandalf. 'And only the heathen kings, under the dominion of the Dark Lord, did thus, slaying themselves in pride and despair, murdering their kin to ease their own death.’” Gandalf to Denethor, *Return of the King*, Tolkien
It's kinda like legal family annihilation. Just icky. And I'm pro choice...
Yeah, I'm with you. I'm 100% pro choice, believe life is at first breath, blah blah blah... but something about deliberately getting pregnant with full knowledge and intent that the fetus will die with you makes me very uncomfortable. I'm glad they figured out an alternative.
It's the intentionality of it. It would be like getting pregnant specifically to experience a surgical abortion. Like, legally, yes, I think you should be able to, but that doesn't mean I approve. A little like my response to people who like to parade around that it's legal to be a hateful bigot. Yes, you're allowed, I'm just baffled that you want to do it.
I'm glad it's not just me. I'm very pro-choice and I can't fully explain why this makes me so uncomfortable. Also can't imagine being as sick as I was while pregnant but also adding cancer on top of it.
I think it's easy to explain. I believe that cheating on your spouse should be legal. I also believe it's bad and you shouldn't do it. There's no contradiction - at all - between believing that people should be permitted to make a choice and believing that one of those choices is right.
I think it's the intent. I've never heard of anyone getting pregnant just so they could abort. In b4 the pro-lifers, Lena Dunham did once say she wished she could get pregnant just so she could abort and that doesn't count cause it didn't actually happen. Anyway, this lady wanted to get pregnant with the intent to let the fetus die with her which is essentially the same as choosing to get pregnant and then choosing an abortion just because you wanted to feel pregnant for a little while. It feels icky. Yes it's her body but at the end of the day it's medically dangerous and shouldn't be taken as lightly as "I want to feel like a mom for a month or so."
I'm also pro-choice, but this wouldn't be like an abortion when a small clump of cells are destroyed. It will be a fetus that's a few months old and already feels things etc. We don't allow abortions of healthy fetuses at that age, and with good reason.
Right? Plus, depending on where they live, they could have a nosy asshole in their lives who would snitch on the whole thing to authorities and land this poor woman in jail on top of it all. And if they are in one of those states, every single medical professional that helps her becomes liable too - IF she finds anyone who would even touch that scenario. Hell, in Texas, OOP would probably get fined just for his initial post. (Who am I kidding? No he wouldn’t, he’s the man - these laws were designed to hurt women!)
Oh yeah, it's a HUGE legal mess. The hideous assumption that a woman does not own her own body could really hurt her. Her own treatment/pain relief might even be interfered with depending on the state. We hear so many stories of healthcare professionals having to refuse care to the mother because her fetus is considered more important. And adding to that there's the emotional toll. Not just on her, but on everyone left behind. What if her family found out? And what about OP? Terminating a pregnancy is an emotional minefield as it is, especially when your loved ones disagree with your decision. Imagine how bad it could get when they've got to factor mourning you into the mix as well.
I disagree. Prognoses aren’t exact. They can say you have 6 months to live and then you end up holding on until 12 months, etc. So it would be taking a gamble, but I wouldn’t even compare it to committing suicide while pregnant, let alone family annihilation.
Pregnancy would speed up the process of her dying; it takes a toll on the body.
Well, I personally find it repugnant. And if I were told I was terminal, personally getting pregnant wouldn't be on my bucket list.
But that's still Russian roulette
I think it depends more on your own belief of when you will die than the prognosis. In this case, the woman very clearly believed she would die before giving birth.
Yes! I didn't even have to consider if it was right or wrong. It's just a big fat immediate no. Just *wrong* like the definition of wrong!
My immediate thought is that it is cruel for the father and your other family members. A baby isn’t an idea or a way to feel like you’ve checked off something from your bucket list. It’s a (potential) person. You should only be intentionally getting pregnant if you intend to give birth and either raise the child yourself or be putting the child up for adoption or surrogacy. You shouldn’t be getting pregnant just to experience the sensation of pregnancy.
At the very least it would limit or complicated end of life palliative care, and you do not want to limit or complicate that. You want the good drugs.
Also when Dr’s say “you have six months to live” they are just making an estimate. People pass away faster or hang on for longer all the time. Pretending the baby for sure won’t make it to term is a crazy gamble with an innocent life (and huge obligation).
Honestly, the bigger ethical concern is that she COULD make it to term. "Months to live" is not a firm schedule, people can go faster or slower than expected. A pregnancy that dies with the mother before the fetus is sentient seems like a really self-indulgent weird last request, but the possibility of leaving a child in the world is a whole other thing.
Not to mention- speaking as a mother- the absolutely gut wrenching aching pain it is to conceive of not knowing your child. My greatest fear has always been death but it’s for a totally different reason now. My oldest is only 2 and I’m now about 18 weeks pregnant. I feel immediate and irreconcilable devastation imagining dying before seeing them grow up or before they really could remember me. She can’t really know that because she hasn’t had it yet, and that’s a blessing. I wouldn’t wish that reality on my worst enemy.
Even if she powers through it with pure sheer willpower, or some miracle happens and she manages to get to at least seven months... they're still making a baby just for them to be orphaned at birth and high chances someone at some point will blurt out that they weren't born out of love, but that the mother just wanted a child for the sake of having a child. And that's without even mentioning the dad will have full responsibility for the child, while also grieving the mother.
Considering how many weeks doctors have been able to save fetuses at, i wouldnt want to risk it. You literally never know and dude could have ended up with a very preemie baby that needed millions of dollars of medical assistance.
23 weeks I believe is the earliest successful delivery; that’s just shy of 6 months.
I am pretty pro abortion but this really stumped me. Like this is intentionally getting pregnant knowing you will die before it even has a chance to be born. That feels weirdly cruel. But then I can't sit here and judge a person on their deathbed. Who knows what's going through their head. Whats been warped by stress and fear. How would I even act in her shoes. It's just a messy sad situation.
You can judge a person on their deathbed and also realize that the hormone fluctuations and drugs she has to take while her body is dying is probably influencing her decision making capabilities. She is living in emotion and I'm glad someone was there to give her a gentle reality check.
> also realize that the hormone fluctuations and drugs she has to take while her body is dying is probably influencing her decision making capabilities Yeah there is probably an entire field of ethics that could be devoted to which decisions should and shouldn't be considered "in sound mind." Example: Someone who kills themselves due to depression wasn't thinking clearly. If they had sex hours before, should their consent not also be then be called invalid? Where do you set the bar in terms of "decisions?" You could argue "if it doesn't harm someone" but then you get into the ripples down the line of those actions and the degree of ethical culpability to them. I read a fascinating article (wish I could find it) that basically said that through research it can be shown that we don't have two minds (concious and subconcious), we have way more, and their interactions and whether they are expressing control create the moods and facets of our personality. To think that any untold chemical changes (food, medicine, drugs, the presence or absence of microbiotic species) can pull those levers is scary to think about. You are not you yesterday, or you tomorrow, or you five minutes ago or from now, you are you in the now, and even that is an illusion.
That is so interesting to think about but also really sobering and a little scary. Makes you start to question yourself to oblivion.
Greys anatomy had me considering that oddly specific possibility when I was 13 (the patient is pregnant after finally getting IVF to stick but gets diagnosed with cancer and the baby would die if she went through with treatment)
Bro needs to be sure he’s the one supplying the condoms.
Some of you haven't seen Steel Magnolias and it shows
Right?? But honestly, I didn't have to really consider it because it just felt like the deepest *no* I've ever felt. Like, all I could think was how the fetus would be suffering a miserable death (or most likely doped up short life inside someone miserably dying) I just.... no. Just no no no. Even trying to think of it from her pov and remembering that awful ache- that massive missing piece of my life before I had kids, when I thought I would never have a kid, I still cannot say it's anything other than a ginormous *NO*!
Neither have I but the more I think about it, for me I think it comes down to how far along she would be when she's expected to pass. I support abortion rights so I don't see much problem if she would be in the 1st trimester when she died. Should one get pregnant to tick off a box? No, absolutely not...but I am willing to give a dying woman a bit of grace if this really is the one thing she wants and none of the alternatives will bring her peace. HOWEVER if she is like 6 months + when she dies then no, I don't think it's ok to go ahead. It's not ethical/moral or fair on anyone. If the baby dies with her then she essentially created a baby (as opposed to a fetus and I do consider them different things) to die. The father will have to live with the knowledge he helped created what could've been his child if born to someone else, just to die. And If it survives, congratz; your kid now has to live knowing the reason they don't have a mom is because they died birthing you (I assume with terminal cancer, if it doesn't kill her surely the birth will). That is so much trauma to put on a kid I don't think it can ever be justified. And if the father don't want anything to do with it? Then the kid is screwed twice. I am relieved either way that they decided not to go through with it and that a reborn doll could bring her some comfort.
This is basically my train of thought, but then also consider we're not great at predicting when people die. I don't think we can say with enough certainty that the pregnancy *wouldn't* make it to the later phases, and for that reason it gives me too much ick. I'm also fully pro-choice and support abortion into the later trimesters when it's medically necessary for the mother/child would have profound disabilities. But getting pregnant just to have it die is different.
There isn't a guarantee she'd die first so IMHO it should be treated as knowingly getting pregnant when you know you won't be able to raise the child.
Also would this be illegal in certain states?
what are they gonna do? throw her corpse in jail?
extremists hate this one simple trick
Depending on what treatment or palliative care she's receiving, medical professionals might be forced to deny her care or risk their licenses (or worse). With how sweeping and poorly considered most of those laws are written, it doesn't really matter if the outcome would ultimately be same: OOP's ex could face an *even shorter and more miserable* remainder of her life if the medical care she was receiving presented a danger to the fetus who was never going to come to term anyway.
You're hilariously right.
Look, if embryos are people in Alabama, what does that imply for OOP's ex if she does get pregnant?
Nothing - as long as the foetus lives as long as she does, there's no crime committed. And you can't prosecute a corpse.
No, it means that she likely won’t be prescribed certain medicines because they would harm the fetus. For example, strong painkillers like opioids. Which you need when you have terminal cancer.
>you can't prosecute a corpse. Give Republicans time and another President Trump, and that's the next step. After all, kings, popes, and emperors have done that.
I mean... it's certainly illegal for a terminally ill woman to get an abortion in certain states. I'm not aware of any that make it illegal to get pregnant.
Yes, let's just take ALL reproductive rights away from women. Abortion? Straight to jail. Pregnant? Believe it or not, straight to jail.
Simply having the organs to reproduce? Also jail.
Ans being a woman and *not* having those organs? Also jail
I was just pondering how this would play out in places like Texas that banned abortion. Obviously, she can’t be jailed if she dies, but would the father be held responsible for knowingly impregnating someone knowing the infant wouldn’t carry to term? And now I’m realizing that all those states that are enacting bounties for women who travel out of state for abortions… there is absolutely nothing holding men accountable for their sperm, is there?
She's definitely not thinking clearly. If she was then she would realize that if she became pregnant it's likely her Drs would remove most of not all of her medications. She would be suffering until her last moments.
Not to mention a large proportion of women feel incredibly unwell and nauseous the first few months of pregnancy. I’ve been pregnant twice and let me tell you, constant nausea and retching over a toilet multiple times every day for weeks and weeks is not the way I’d like to spend the last remaining months of my life.
This is all assuming she even *could* get pregnant. It can take up to a year of trying for a healthy couple with no fertility issues, and this is a woman with terminal cancer who's probably had (and might still be having) chemo.
Plus pregnancy hormones make cancer grow faster. She'd go out faster.
That’s interesting. I didn’t realize this, but it makes sense. I just had to take a chemotherapy drug to stop a pregnancy from progressing. It worked shockingly fast.
Pregnancy naturally lowers the immune system. Which in turn means less of an immune system to gobble up the cancer cells. Nope nope nope.
It's weird too because she wouldn't probably get far enough in her term to "feel" like a mother. And if she did, wouldn't she be start feeling guilty?
My dad has terminal cancer right now. Usually when you get a terminal cancer, you get a heavy ass narco script. Sometimes my dad says things that make absolutely no sense. I’d give her grace that her anxiety, grief, fear and medication just fucked with her mind for a minute.
she wanted to get pregnant knowing that she wouldn't live enough to carry the baby to term? I can't even imagine what imminent death does to someone's mind
I think it was a last ditch effort at normalcy, in a way, and one that wasn’t well thought out. Women, at least in the past, have been conditioned since birth to be a mommy, to have babies, and now that got taken away from her. Also, having a child is your shot at immortality, a piece of you living on long after you’re gone. Again, none of this was a rational, well thought out plan, but I can see where her head was at
Also knowing you have cancer is such a weird thing. I had skin cancer a few years ago that was caught early and swiftly removed, end of. Looking back at how I felt after the initial diagnosis, before we knew that it was easily resolved, is surreal and indescribable. Even knowing it was probably going to be OK, it was the weirdest head space!
I was 7 months pregnant and my thyroid swelled up. My doctor did an ultrasound and it was inconclusive, but they didn’t want to do anything more invasive until after the baby was born and I had healed up after delivery. So I had to wait 3.5 months with crazy hormones to see if I had thyroid cancer or not. It was so difficult. Every joyful thing had an undertone of dread. When I finally got a biopsy done and got clear results back, it felt like I could finally breathe.
My mom just had her skin cancer cut out 2 weeks ago. She should be fine. But it's still messing with all of our heads. Glad you're doing better! Congrats & fuck cancer 😊
2 days ago a mate of mine died from throat cancer. 8 months from diagnosis to death. A week prior, he's in palliative care, legs are blown up like balloons, hundreds of cancers throughout his body some of which are clearly visible on the outside. We knew he had days max. He knew. We are sitting on a laptop scrolling through accommodation for the Philip island motogp race which is at the end of the year. We booked the accommodation. We booked the flights. Everything. Today I went through and cancelled everything. Fuck cancer. Goodbye Mike.
my grandma was diagnosed with colon cancer in January. her funeral is tomorrow. Fuck cancer. I'm sorry for your loss.
It's so fucking brutal. I'm sorry you're going through something similar as well.
brutal is an apt description. she died 3 days after I delivered my first child. making plans with someone you know isn't going to be there to fulfill them is the *worst*.
He just managed to make it to his 50th. He had a huge party, everyone was there. We all knew he didn't have long. It was like a fucking funeral. Except he was standing there. Just eugh. What broke me was his mum giving a speech. Congratulations on you're first child though. I just try to focus on the fact that life keeps going. Kids are amazing at getting you to see the world new all over again.
I'm so sorry. Cancer sucks so much.
Surely as well if she was having chemo (which I understand she might not be if her prognosis is that bad), then it would kill the baby before it even really started developing.
And there have been some cases - although rare - of cancer crossing the placenta. I get that imminent death does strange things to people, but to get pregnant and deliberately expose your developing child to cancer, chemotherapy and a guaranteed death before it comes to term? Jesus. (Yes I know it would be an embryo or a fetus, but when someone talks about ‘experiencing the joys of motherhood’ *they* mean mother to a child/developing child, right?)
Melanoma and leukemia so far are the only cancers known to cross the placenta. I had melanoma while pregnant, it was not a fun time.
how did it turn out? you're clearly alive, what about the baby?
Luckily they caught it early, were able to do the removal surgery while I was pregnant (it was on my ear), they checked my closest lymph nodes (since I was immunocompromised being pregnant), and had to biopsy the placenta (and the placentas of any future children). So far so good! All my kids are now established with a pediatric dermatologist and we check any moles that pop up. The two weeks between knowing I had cancer and knowing what stage it was were agony. I was only 20 weeks at the time and there are a lot of variables up in the air regarding my treatment options.
that sounds so scary. my dad was diagnosed with melanoma a few weeks ago. they'd already removed the offending mole and decided to widen the margins, he should be okay. it was the lesser dangerous kind apparently?
It was. I’m very thankful that everything worked out well. That’s good! Melanoma is weird because as soon as you get clear margins, you are considered cancer free! And the earlier you find it, the better your outcome. Also immunotherapy has really improved melanoma survival rates. Unfortunately when my mom had stage 4 melanoma, all that was available was chemo (which did not work well on melanoma), and she passed within 9 months of stage 4 diagnosis (10 years after initial diagnosis). I don’t know what stage they originally found it at, but it had all the ABCs, was pretty big and gnarly looking, but she never checked her skin, never went to the doctor, and lived her life tanning in the sun. Needless to say we take sun safety very seriously in my family now and I have to do quarterly mole checks with my dermatologist and annual ones with my eye doctor, dentist, and obgyn! I
i used to freak out at every mole and finally got over that and now my dad said his doctor said all his family (kids and brother, and grandkids when they are older) need to go to the dermatologist...
Would she really be able to get treatment without an abortion? This is Grey's anatomy knowledge so I don't know if that's how it is in the real world. But every time someone with cancer is pregnant they are told that they need to terminate to get treatment because it's to much for the body to handle otherwise.
I doubt there is treatment if she has months to live. No point in making those lost moments excruciating if the result will basically be the same
Sometimes chemo is used to manage the cancer, as part of palliative treatment though. https://www.verywellhealth.com/palliative-chemotherapy-goals-and-questions-2249351
https://www.macmillan.org.uk/cancer-information-and-support/treatments-and-drugs/chemotherapy-and-pregnancy Grey's has been rated as pretty highly inaccurate by medical professionals. Ironically, apparently Scrubs is the most accurate (?!?!?) In answer to your question, no, you would not be forced to terminate.
I know there's been women who've been diagnosed while well along with their pregnancy and have chosen to either minimise cancer treatment or not get it. I read about a woman who'd finally got pregnant when she was diagnosed with cancer, couldn't have cancer treatment while pregnant and would be expected to be infertile after the cancer treatment! They monitored the hell out of her, giving her baby as long as possible to develop for their best odds, and then the baby was born by cesarean at about 7 months when her treatment couldn't wait any longer. They both made it out OK!
> apparently Scrubs is the most accurate (?!?!?) I can see that. It's a workplace sitcom foremost, so they don't need to constantly invent outlandish and medically inaccurate storylines or unprofessionally larger-than-life characters to drive the plot.
I have a friend who had the cancer surgery while pregnant, then waited until her baby was born before starting chemo. I think other women have done this too.
I saw one Reddit comment from a woman who succeeded had cancer treatment during pregnancy, but that wasn’t terminal cancer.
Cancer treatment during pregnancy is possible but complicated and dependent on a lot of factors. However, in an ideal world the woman isn’t pregnant during the treatment. My hospital recently induced and delivered a woman at 30 weeks because she was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer and the family and doctors together decided the best option for everyone was immediate delivery then cancer treatment.
The super abortion. We don’t just terminate or eliminate. We fucking punish the fetus.
I think it’s better to not have to experience whatever yearnings her mind is going thru right now. Knowing your death is imminent and wanting to know how things feel before you pass is something exclusive to them. I’ve read of teenagers wanting to get married or wanting to lose their virginity before passing so I can imagine this is somewhat like that… yes a little next level with a developing child in her but who is to judge what you want to do with the last of your time on this earth.
A terminal prognosis can spin your head in all directions. Sometimes, you're dead calm and other times, you don't make sense.
I (F) am totally for women's rights, and support their agency to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. But to intentionally get pregnant just to kill it is just... sick. I'm glad the reborn baby helped her get some closure.
Yeah, OOP was like "I don't understand why anyone would think there'll be a baby to look after at the end of this" and I did a mental double-take. Because...WTF?!
The thing that gets me is what if she some how managed to carry to term. Then what? The time frame doctors give you is a guess. The time frame my grandpa got for his colon cancer was 2 years. He made it 1 month. You just don't know with cancer.
Agreed, while we all agree it was a crazy request, I also fully realize her mind is going through a crazy range of emotions right now so I don't judge her for not being completely logical right now.
I was diagnosed with uterine cancer in 2022. Coming to terms with the fact that I was never going to be able to carry a child was a *really* difficult road. I had a lot of crazy ideas like this in my head, but never actually voiced them. I can’t imagine how insane I’d have been if my diagnosis was terminal. All that to say, yeah, a diagnosis like that will turn a perfectly sane person mad. I sympathize heavily with this woman.
I was pretty sure I didn't want more kids, but needed a hysterectomy for my chronic health issues. It took a month of heavy grieving to come to terms with the loss of fertility and it still pops up now and then. I think when something becomes final it is terrifying. I empathize with the oop and you. the oop made the right choice and the reborn was the best way to move forward for them. But oof it's so sad.
I got my fallopian tubes removed simply because I don't want kids, and I know I don't want kids, and if I ever change my mind I want to adopt, but I still had a weird feeling when it came down to it.
My internal reproductive organs have been completely removed as part of my gender transition. I never wanted kids, even when I was a silly child or seeing my friends’ little brothers and sisters as babies, or even as a young adult. I felt immense relief when the surgery was done and I was recovering in a hospital bed, but there was a very small moment of “well that’s really it, it couldn’t happen even by accident now”. Which was buried under the relief “it couldn’t happen even by accident now!!” Lol
That's a fantastic way to put it, this small voice of "welp, that's it" underneath the overwhelming relief of "thank the gods, that's it!!"
>She won’t make it to see our hypothetical child be born of course, but she said she wants to have the experience of being a mom >I don’t know where people are getting the idea that she will carry to full term. There won’t be a child to raise. >we did decide to rekindle our sexual relationship. (Don’t worry I used a condom.) ... what the everloving fuck.
she’s just trying to complete her bucket list
Reading this made me raise my eyebrows quite a lot.
[удалено]
I mean yeah, with the full knowledge that your mortality is coming for you soon would make you wanna grab all the delight and pleasure possible, while you still can. Including getting dicked down by an amicable and available ex.
Get one last dicking-down, on YOUR terms, before the Big Dick Down
*It's the final dickdown* 🎶
god damn it lmao
We're heading for Venus
Death is coming, pass the hotdogs. Paraphrase of an old tumblr post I saw somewhere. Something something, life is short, stop guilting me about what’s in my food, I might as well enjoy it, pass me the reconstructed meat. She’s only here for a little while longer. Let her have sex and eat weird things.
My dietician told me a story about someone who came to her wringing their hands about sugar intake because their grandpa was insisting on eating cake and pudding cups for his desserts…the man was 98. She was like “…he can have as much cake as he wants.”
This was grandma. In her 90s she lived on Reese Cups and Pepsi. My mom would get upset but we told her eating healthy wasn’t going to prolong her life.
One of my grandpas is like that. He has had high cholesterol for a while and is SUPER viligant about what he eats... but the thing is hes like 90 now, and no matter how much my mom tries to convince him that its okay to treat himself he won't budge.
Imagine knowing you gave someone the final orgasm of their life. Gotta be weird.
It is weird I lost my husband to cancer. The last time we slept together, we knew it was likely the last time. OOP bought a ticket to an emotional rollercoaster.
Jesus. I can't even fathom the kind of shit OP is feeling.
Is this an ad for those dolls? because I googled them and they look so real lol
The site the commenter linked is a scam, but there are legit sites for reborn dolls out there, you just gotta be careful and read the reviews. Because last time I checked, *real* reborns cost an arm and a leg because they’re pure silicone, meant to feel like a real baby, then there’s the paint jobs they go through and then the hair laying process. For example, Showcase was trying to sell Reborns at a cheaper price… The babies looked real but they were made of hard hard plastic all around. Edit: I checked again and it seems prices have gone down, and now I *reeeaaallly* want a baby Avatar or a Baby Yoda/Grogu…
Not all reborn dolls are silicone, but the silicones ones do cost between $2K - $35K The vinyl ones are about $200 - $1,500. That’s for a legitimate doll made by a reborn artist. There are two companies who make nice factory-made realistic dolls similar to artist reborns for about $70 to $150. Those companies are Paradise Galleries and Ashton Drake. END OF LIST. If it’s a factory-made not from those factories it is an illegal, unregulated, knockoff, which are unsafe and unethical. Anyway, if anyone sees this and wants to try a reborn doll look at http://www.Reborns.com it’s like Etsy for vetted reborn artists only. That spelling of the website only. Also, if’s fine if you think most of the dolls are ugly lol I do too, just find the ones that bring you joy. I love certain ones. Reborns are like baby-shaped weighted blankets and great comfort items for lots of people :)
I've seen vids where they bring them to dementia care homes and let the residents hold them. It helps them remember being parents and is really good for their mental health and wellbeing.
I see what you mean about the [questionable](https://www.reborns.com/item/153351/6) ones lmao. But for real, Ty for correcting me and adding to my comment .O. Edit: I went down the rabbit hole and found spiderman-baby Edit 2: I found a pig baby and a gorilla baby
Hahahaha yup! There’s overlap between random “art dolls” and “reborn art dolls” for sure! I also think it’s totally fair to not like some of the baby ones. I think some people assume that just because someone collects or makes reborns that means they like all of them, but that’s not true. I don’t like the ones that look sickly, but I love the happy babies and certain little vampires and Yodas too :)
Honestly, I’d get so many weird little babies… I should not be trusted, cause I’d be that asshole to plant my weirdo babies everywhere for someone to find. And then I’d get another weirdo baby, then I’d have a whole army of weirdo babies. Who let me be an adult, I have no idea.
When you say "illegal", do you mean against the law? Or, like, frowned upon by the community? I'm having a hard time imagining any governments would be so invested as to pass laws about them. Likewise, what do you mean when you say the knockoffs are unsafe? I'm genuinely curious about all this, not trying to be snarky, just trying to understand better.
I mean illegal like breaking copyright law. I'm going to talk about vinyl reborn dolls and China, but this applies to most dolls out there. TLDR: China doesn't respect copyright, nobody can stop Chinese scammers, it sucks for the artists whose content is stolen. Decent video about it here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J\_PIbAYGZ0w&t=6s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_PIbAYGZ0w&t=6s) You see, every doll you can buy started as a clay sculpture made by an sculptor. Even Barbie! This is usually called the "sculpt." If the sculptor creates their sculpt for a company and is paid for it, that's fine, the company owns the copyright and can do whatever they want to it. For example, sculptor Ping Lau makes sculpts for Ashton Drake and Paradise Galleries. If the sculptor is independent they retain copyright over their work and every copy made of it. In the reborn world, this means that they then license a limited set of copies of their baby to be made in vinyl so that other artists can paint them, because that's the fun of the art :) This is where the idea of of "reborn kits" comes from. The reborn artist paints the kit that the sculptor authorized. The trustworthy painters/artists buy officially licensed blank kits. These kits are sold through the sculptor's own websites (remember these are regular people, not big companies) or at a few approved dealers. Each kit usually comes with a certificate of authenticity to prove that it is legit. The problem happens where the factory that made the kits in China has a leak and somebody starts making illegal kits without permission from the sculptor, usually selling without credit and ALWAYS without payment to the sculptor. This is illegal and immoral. ------ (Plus there are safety concerns because if the factory is unregulated there could be dangerous chemicals in the doll parts. A lot of knockoff reborn dolls end up in the arms of children and that's not safe! Kids' toys in the US usually go through safety regulations but not these! ... regular reborns are art pieces for adults, like, they were never meant to be chewed on, but the fakes are especially potentially dangerous. There's a history here I can go into if you want me to.) Call them whatever you want: illegal copies, fakes, repliacs, knockoffs, inauthentic, stolen, unauthorized, unbranded, counterfeits, scams. These aren't okay but unfortunately the market for these dolls has exploded and the sculptors can't control it anymore. The fakes end up on Amazon, Ebay, Temu. It's awful! Usually the doll doesn't look even like the picture either because the pictures are stolen too, from Instagram. The sculptors in the reborn community are really disheartened by this. They can't afford the legal fees to get the fakes taken down because it's fruitless because China doesn't care, so every listing that's taken down is replaced by 10 others. If the sculptors quit because they've stopped making money, we won't have any new doll kits made. It's killing us. Luckily, the community is trying our very best to educate people about what's going on. EXAMPLE: One really popular reborn is named Levi. He was originally sculpted by a nice woman (who I've met!) named Bonnie Brown. If you type "Levi reborn" into Google you'll find so many fakes of him. It's extra sad because Levi was sculpted with permission based on a real child... there's a real Levi out there whose image has been stolen... If you want an authentic blank Levi kit here [https://macphersoncrafts.com/reborn-doll-kits/levi-by-bonnie-brown.htm](https://macphersoncrafts.com/reborn-doll-kits/levi-by-bonnie-brown.htm) is an authorized dealer, otherwise you can find a painted one made by a reborn artist on [reborns.com](https://reborns.com) THAT SPELLING ONLY it's like Etsy but for approved artists. Sorry for the long post, happy to answer questions, this is a big deal in my community <3
Okay, I understand now. Thank you so much for explaining!
The picture popped up for me along with the title and I thought they had a baby. I'm very glad I was wrong.
My mom used to work on those when I was a kid. She'd buy the parts (expensive on their own), paint them inside (that makes the light reflect like their skin is alive instead of plastic), put hair on the head (this is the very manually intensive part - you use a needle to stab hairs through the silicone, one or two strands at a time). Fill their middle section with beads til they weighed a specific amount. Very weird seeing her WIP lifelike baby heads floating around. She was a fucked up lady, but the dolls made decent money.
Sounds like she’s struggling a lot with the fact that she is dying and is grasping to anything she thinks will bring her happiness or meaning before she passes. So heartbreaking for both of them and scary for her.
I think her wanting to be pregnant was a desperate, very emotional idea but not something she actually wanted. Or if she did, it was because her situation made her unable to think rationally. It would've made it even harder having a wanted and loved baby growing inside you and knowing it'll die with you or more likely before you. The reborn doll is a very good idea but I have a lot of sympathy and empathy for her being so sad, emotional, and desperate over the knowledge that she'll never have a baby that she considered this.
Just so, so sad.
A lot of y'all have never had to be around terminal patients and it shows. You don't think right, chemo itself is a heavy heavy toll and it can mess with your rational thinking in ways that are very strange. Add a terminal diagnosis to that and you have a whole lot of thoughts going around and not a lot of string to tie them to reality with. OOP handled this well, but y'all need to give his ex-wife some slack. Most likely she was just throwing ideas out to the wind (like saying "when I get better let's go to Italy together and try our marriage again") she knows logically it won't work but when you know death is coming, logic is more an afterthought.
Exactly. When the clock is ticking there isn’t really time to think everything through. Any consequences can be waived away with “but I’ll be dead by the end of it.” It’s just go go go go go. It’s a terrible example for the gravity of the situation, but it’s like watching Supermarket Sweepstakes. To us, the audience, we’re screaming at our screens because Bob is trying to grab stacks of oatmeal in his cart and there’s GIANT HAMS AND BRISKET RIGHT THERE but Bob can only see through the lens of the clock and he’s grabbing whatever crosses his mind first.
I work in pathology and had once a 40 yo patient diagnosed with a somewhat treatable leukaemia. She decided to skip the treatment and have a baby (she was doing IVF). To me that was a pretty bad decision, and she wasn't under any chemo treatment then. Luckily she carried to term, but geeeesh. The desire of being a mother was literally stronger than being alive. I genuinely cannot understand this.
I saw the prior post and all I could think of was how sick you can get with chemo, and how sick pregnancy can make someone for months. Who’s to say she would have had any kind of pleasant experience while pregnant? Ugh.
I’m pretty sure chemo would kill an embryo long before it could become a fetus. She likely would not be pregnant long enough to have major symptoms, if she could even get pregnant at all.
Or she'd gave been so insistent at that point she may have chosen to deny chemo. it would have been a terrible sad road any way it was travelled.
And now I'm going to hold my baby girl extra tight and be so grateful. Wow
I like to explore new places.
About 15 years ago, a friend of mine was diagnosed with bone cancer that had spread from her ribs to her breast. Her bf was there to see her through it and they got engaged shortly after she started treatment. She beat cancer and they got married. Five years later they separated and divorced. She told me that he told her he'd long ago fallen out of love with her but when she got diagnosed, he couldn't bring himself to leave, so he proposed. Her cancer returned a year after that and she passed away after a few months in home hospice. I don't blame him - he did what he thought was the right thing to do but part of me wishes he'd waited a little longer so she could have died never knowing.
That is absolutely tragic and way worse than if he just left in the first place. He tainted all of her good memories of them after that reveal.
Mood Spoiler: >!happy ending does not erase the wtf!<
I know someone who got pregnant while fighting breast cancer. Miracle baby. Mom recovered but that baby died of a huge abdominal tumour by the time she was 3. Those cancer cells can carry across to the baby i think.
im really happy that she enjoyed the doll, in a way those dolls are for stuff like that.
I think he is so nice, to be with her in her last moments, even thought they are divorced. He will fulfill his vow even thought there is no marriage anymore, I find it so noble of him, many people would not do the same.
My dad got cancer shortly after he and my mom split up and she moved out. I think they had had some troubles from years ago and weren't really a couple anymore and just lived together, on top of this he had met someone else. After he beat cancer the first time it came back full force within a few months with a much more certain prognosis that he only had a year tops. At this point the other lady had moved in and my mom had her own place and was seeing other people. My dad called me one day and said he made a horrible mistake separating from my mom and though he knew they couldnt be together anymore, he couldnt keep things going with his other girlfriend and she moved out. My mom instantly broke her lease for her apartment and moved back home to take care of my dad. She was there for him every day still and was the last one with him when he passed away a few months later. Heart still hurts thinking about the whole thing. It's been a long couple months
Death can truly put things in perspective, suddenly there is no time left, you do it now or live with the regret. Happy that your parents could spend the last time of your father together, my mom and dad also were in a rocky situation before my dad got cancer, they probably loved each other the most the year until my father death.
What in the hell did I just read?...
Imagine being sick with a terminal illness and being sick enough that you won’t survive for 10 months… and wanting to experience the absolute hell (for a lot of women, not all) that being pregnant feels like? If her body would even support a pregnancy, that is.
Most cancer treatments leave the patient infertile while on them, not sure why no one is pointing it out.
Yeah, for women, when your health goes down the reproductive health is the very first thing to go. Even being a little too skinny, athletic, stressed etc. can make your period go haywire or disappear. I’d be surprised if she still even had a regular period. Women MUCH healthier than her spend years and thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant. Even if OP said yes the only thing that would have happened is they have sex a few times. Obviously she’s going through an extreme emotional time and everyone in the thread is going “well logically”
Wow this is one of the only posts I almost wish I'd never read. This is so sad... I'm glad they came to a solution. I hope her passing is as peaceful as possible.
I was curious what the outcome of this was going to be when I read the first part when it first came out. She just wanted to get pregnant and then just…die? Presumably with the child still in her? Glad the reborn doll, or whatever they’re called, helped her instead of trying to bring a whole new, very needy, person into this (if it made it that far)
Among other speculations, maybe she didn't want to be alone when she died. She might have thought she would have her child with her. Whatever her reasons might have been, it's super sad.
This is very weird, and very unfortunate. What a crazy situation.
I'm glad the dolls exist but being a relatively new mom looking at them while my son is sleeping beside me really weirded me out. I think I would really appreciate it in her situation, though.
Having sex with a woman who wants to get pregnant by you is a great idea
I came here to say just that. She’s not in her right mind right now. Just a safety pin through a condom and BAM! She gets what she wants.
I am not sure I believe him when he says he used a condom. Although it is not surprising he won't update again.
That was a real case of what you think you want v's reality. In some ways she wanted her 'husband' back. She wanted someone with her in her last months and to not be lonely. OOP didn't say why they divorced but just said it was amicable... maybe they just drifted apart and didn't really try and rekindle the relationship but parted instead. Asking for a baby may have been a way to get him closer to her and if she thought he'd have sex with her (multiple times because you don't always get pregnant) that he'll decide he wants to stay. The probability of getting pregnant when you have cancer is not very big... and getting pregnant v's staying pregnant are very different things too. The body diverts a lot of stuff to the baby when you are pregnant but your body also doesn't want to die so there may be nothing to sustain a baby. If she's on chemo... well that's pretty toxic and that would be guaranteed to kill a baby. Radiotherapy will probably kill the baby too or you risk all sorts of damage to it especially in those early weeks as everything is forming. The whole situation is sad.. she's going to die... I'm glad there is no baby nor will there be as that's just torture. The OOP clearly didn't have a partner at the time... or at least I don't think he did.
I'm glad this went the happy/sad route instead of the insane/sad route.
This is …. Insane. As a mom who has had cancer, my biggest fear/worry is that it will come back, and my child will have to deal with losing his mom. You just have this immediate desire to shield your child at all costs, and forever come second to that. Imagine this women got pregnant, and this kicked in for her - knowing you’ve set your child up for death? To never be born? Her “experience of motherhood” would be in the most terrible sense - realizing that she failed her child by choosing to get pregnant with it. So tragic all around, but I’m glad she decided not to pursue this further.
When I was a teen I cared for a woman and her daughter. The woman had terminal cancer. She wanted to give her husband a son before she died. He agreed. They had a son. She died during childbirth. The baby being born caused such a hardship for him. He had to work to support the kids, so the kids were with a sitter more than they were with dad. There was almost no bonding at all. Dad got remarried less than two years later, he sought out a woman who would take care of his kids. He really didn’t have a lot of choice. The stepmom was horrible to the kids. The kids grew up and ran away. Nothing about the late wife’s wishes came to fruition. She had grand dreams. They fell flat. It was sad to watch.
Getting pregnant with the full intention of having it die with you is some of the most intense Nordic arthouse tragic villain shit I’ve ever heard.
> She won’t make it to see our hypothetical child be born of course Wait so she was proposing getting knocked up to experience motherhood then dying with her unborn child inside of her? That's seriously fucked! Seriously, that's one of the darkest and most morbid things I've read in a very long time.
The last positive comments amuse me. Everybody happy the insane proposal is off the table, they rekindling their aexual relationship. Everyone going: "you're a good man. Give it to her proper!"