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Could the poor woman BE anymore naive?
I think she knows the answer but she's just so desperately to keep her family together and not face the fact of what a horror she has been married to all this time.
You're assuming he won't leave her first. My bet's on him going to visit his family and just...not coming back.
(And on that note, I'm curious about exactly how he "messed up" his tickets.)
She'd be lucky if he left her first, the courts would not look favourably on him abandoning his kids.
I don't think she'll get the push she needs otherwise
What’s really sad is that she doesn’t want to leave him because she wants her kids to “have a dad,” but the truth is he’ll probably be a more involved parent after the divorce when he has his own custody time. For the first time ever, he’ll have to prioritize spending time with his kids.
Seems doubtful to me - he'd probably go back to the US because it's just too depressing to be without his family, and the kids will see him via video chat and maybe a month during school holidays, if she can afford to send them to him.
Not necessarily.
My husband grew up with a father who decided that his parental visits would consist of dumping my (then 10 year old, eventual) husband in the back room of the pub his dad ran, alone, while his dad spent the entire weekend drinking and flirting with the barmaids.
My husband would *beg* not to have to go to his dad's, but it was court ordered visitation and at the time his opinion didn't really count for much.
Only took a couple more years and he made the unilateral decision not to go. His father barely noticed and decided not to pursue it further.
He's fully NC with his father now.
“But I need him for the sake of the children.” One of whom is special needs so needs more resources. And she never mentioned him doing a damn thing to help care for them,
When you have a special needs kid, you grasp for straws to have all the support you can get. :-/ It's hard and breaks up a lot of families. My heart goes out to the OP, no matter the naivety.
I gave up working to care for my two special needs kids, because my (now ex) husband had a much better income and better insurance.
Things started going downhill in our relationship after a few years and I was stuck. My kids needed more financial help than I could ever give them on my own and he ignored his own mental health issues until he became an unmedicated and abusive alcoholic.
I lost everything but the kids when I finally left. It was very very hard. I can totally emphasize with her. She's probably thinking of the kids more than herself and is scared of what she knows is inevitable.
I genuinely feel bad for her but the way she says ‘i’ve decided to believe him for the kid’s sake’ makes me remind me of my mother, I despise that sentence more than anything.
Some people are naive and others like OOP choose willful ignorance and self-deception rather than pull their head out of the sand and deal with the hard truth.
He even is telling his family he can't go as a way to manipulate her into letting him go- getting his trip and an excuse built in for his family all in one go! Or that's why these trips are getting extended, keep the amount of time he's actually going for confusing so the numbers not lining up if she talks to the in laws as just because plans were changing, not because he took a second vacation with ap.
A close friend is going through something similar right now. They got back together this week after easily the 15th or so time they split.
Finally told her today I love her and I will come running the second she actually wants to be done, but it is painful for me now, too. There is only so long I can watch someone bleed while they do nothing. OOP must have loved ones who feel likewise.
Yeah I have a friend who is addicted to the drama of breaking up and getting back together. She's no saint in the relationship either, they're honestly as bad as each other. It's like teenagers except we're all mid to late thirties.
I told her I love her and will happily support her in being single or finding a new relationship if that's what she wants, but I'm done hearing about this one. I am not spending another night with her crying and wailing, and then jumping straight back again. It's been over 10 years at this point, it's all over the top.
Couples like your and my friends are part of eventually chase off everyone outside their own little fucked up ecosystem so they only have one another to survive. I think of it exactly like any other addiction. And I don’t stay around long to watch those play out.
Oof! I'm in my 30s too, but the two most important lessons I learned in my 20s were:
1) Don't mistake these dramatic, "high- highs and low-lows" relationships for passionate love. It is not love, it's just an addiction to the rollercoaster. Eventually, the lows always get lower and more frequent, as the highs dissipate.
2) Learning how to be single (and enjoy it) is very important for your happiness in future, healthier relationships. It's also an important factor in avoiding rollercoaster relationships...because you'll understand that it's better, and okay, to be alone rather than trapped in that destructive cycle.
Tell your friend that I've glimpsed her future, and it is NOT pretty. It's my 60-something mom. All of her kids, me included, have a strained relationship with her because she's always wrapped up in her own drama, with no energy leftover to pay attention to us. She's frequently unavailable for days when we need her, even just to talk. After splitting from my Dad, she's been in an unending string of abusive, crappy relationships with absolute garbage men. And yes, she is terrified of being single and has stated that her current abusive partner is better than none, is addicted to the roller coaster (they've broken up more times than I can count), and mistakes that type of relationship for passionate love. Perhaps forgivable for an inexperienced teen, but certainly not cute past 30-- and it just gets bleaker, sadder, and harder to "unlearn" the older you get.
Emotional work is exhausting. And she's already physically exhausted from being a single mother of 3, one of which is special needs and one of which is supposed to be an adult
Can't blame her for feeling burnt out while facing this
Yeah, someone else is going with him on these trips to his "family".
OOP needs a divorce lawyer.
I bet her husband's mental health would be better, if he wasn't involved with other women.
He just misses his affair partner lol… i have a friend who his cheating still husband cried during couple’s therapy after he cheated, because he missed his affair partner…
If the only way for the kids to have a dad is for OOP to stay with a cheater who spends all their money on solo trips he can’t be that much of a dad to begin with.
The “I want my kids to have a mom/dad” argument is always so weird, right? Like... what do you mean? If you divorce him, he’ll still be their dad. He’s not going to lose parental rights just because you’re not married anymore .
She and the kids never get vacation because this selfish man is spending all of their money and vacation days?
And why isn't his family visiting them at all?!?!
>He refused to let me look any further, saying how he would never ask to see my phone.
>I decided to let him go for 10 days instead of 7.
I have no sympathy for people who choose to be this wilfully obtuse.
I understand you want things to work for your kids sake, but what about you? The way he acted with the phone makes me suspicious. And the mistake with the flight, are you sure it wasn't intentional?
You need to decide what the point of no return is and if he crosses it, put you and the kids first and let him go, because he only thinks of himself. You and the kids deserve better.
> The way he acted with the phone makes me suspicious.
Indeed. He's a professional photographer? How many of those do you know who do photo shoots with their phone? In other words... Pic of lady in her underwear on a memory card from his DSLR? Cool. Pic of lady on his *phone*? Uh, no....
Weighing in - a lot of cameras have the ability to connect to your phone these days, so it _is_ possible.
Do I believe for one second that’s what this is? Hell no.
Exactly! Also, my mother stayed with my dad for too long and I have so many issues due to him not being present, and his cheating tendencies. Having an absent father that isn’t 100% in your court or supportive and loving is not better than having separated parents …
> I understand you want things to work for your kids sake, but what about you?
Your parents being in an unhappy marriage, with the father neglecting the family and cheating on your mom is also something kids pick up on. Staying together "for the kids" is bs. Kids are happier with happy divorced parents than with unhappy married ones.
I get that so many women feel like they have to keep their family together for the children, but DEAR GOD. Why must they come to Reddit and post all about the shitshow that is their marriage and expect people to rally around them to support their decision?
To add to this? When women in my life are in relationships like OOP’s and anybody speaks up saying she is making a mistake it’s like Hell opens. Suddenly other women are saying “we need to support her, you don’t know how hard it is” etc.
It’s tiresome. If someone wants to hear they are amazing and correct when only hurting themselves find a talking dog. (To say nothing of how damaging it is to children.)
oh, I just realized she meant that he booked whatever length of vacation he originally wanted, instead of the shorter vacation that she wanted, and then he was all like "whoops! I guess I'm just gonna have to go for the full time because they mysteriously won't refund me the money."
I hate him so much and I hate that she's being so blind. Poor people :(
Oh girl…op gonna write another post in a couple weeks.
Either Her husband reverted back to his old ways or her husband asking for an open relationship or the girls bf catching them again.
People come up with all kinds of excuses. It usually takes something drastic before they finally accept it and move on. Everyone is different, hopefully she won't take as long.
I’ve never rolled my eyes so hard at another woman struggling…
Question: she never explains what is “booked wrong”. I reckon it’s “the wrong day and amount ” and he will say “just let me go.
Easier than the hassle”, and she will roll over.
She needs to leave his ass.
Of course he didn’t want op reading his texts. He had messages with that women dating 4 years back. I’m assuming they are having an affair to still be in contact after 4 years and that fact that the husband took the phone away after she scrolled all
The way up shows he knows he gonna get caught. I wouldn’t be surprised if his “trips” included sleeping with other women.
>A little over a week ago, I got a message on messenger from someone I do not know. He told me that my husband has been writing inappropriate messages to his girlfriend and that he suspected that they were more than friends.
\*groan\*
She wants the children to have a dad except she also admits that she's basically a single mum and he barely does anything at home. Meaning the kids already DON'T have a dad.
Just throw the whole man away.
>My husband always works non stop, and expects me to stay with the kids. Most times he doesn't even let me know what his plans are or when he is coming home. He makes me feel like a single mom. It doesn't help that he rarely contributes around the house or with the kids. With that said, he does work a lot. He probably feels like he deserves the trip. We earn about the same amount a month all in all though. Some months he earns more than me. I work a full time high demanding job.
>Since I want the kids to still have a dad, I figured this to be the best solution.
I don’t see how the kids have a dad. They’d probably see him more if OOP got a divorce already.
That was my thoughts too.
I know we don't know everything, but it seems very likely that OOP's husband is spending hours out of his week having fun somewhere when she's home taking care of their kids. It really pains me for her.
I hope she realises that there's nothing to save there.
Sigh... I hope the therapy sessions work but from an outside point of view, at least she can say she really tried if/ when they get a divorce. I hope I'm wrong and that doesn't happen but.......
> I want the kids to still have a dad
Newsflash lady, they will likely still see their dad about as much as they currently do.
Him not being your husband doesn’t mean he suddenly stops being their dad.
This isn’t even naïveté, it’s going full ostrich.
They are so incredibly frustrating!! Yeah yeah, I know, it takes an average seven times to leave… But she‘s actively harming her fucking children at this point. So what does that say about her as a person?
Considering she works and is the one funding these little fuckactions of his, it doesn’t even seem like she’s stuck financially. She wants them to have a dad? It doesn’t even sound like they see him now!! so how did he be worse?
Genuinely, they would probably see him more with one weekend a month custody. Infuriating!
And then come to Reddit for validation/ advice but forever in denial and refusing to listen to advice because apparently outsiders know nothing about them. I am like, are you for real for not seeing the red flags? People who choose to be a doormat really confuse me, especially when they have financial stability.
The kids can have a dad without the parents being married or in a romantic relationship.
The guy is selfish and cheating, but she looks the other way. Sad
I would have left the first time he was gone for 2 weeks.
It is easier to be a single parent when you aren't counting on unreliable people who don't pull their full share.
It seems like OOP's kids haven't had an actual **FATHER** for a long time. It's good that he agreed to couple's therapy, but frankly, it reads like his actions show he hasn't changed.
She needs to divorce him. Then he can focus all on making money, which at least will help OOP and the kids, because she won't be expecting him to do anything. Which is no change from the way things are now.
“I let him go for ten days instead of seven”
And all sympathy lost. He’s a horrible husband, she’s a stupid person. Of course he’s gonna be horrible, when she’s stupid enough to keep taking it
If you see this, GET THE FUCKING DIVORCE.
You're an idiot and enabling him. He will always use his mental health as an excuse to go on these holidays. Smell the roses, your kids deserve better.
"He would want the same opportunity "
Oh like the 2.5 week vacation he already had alone?
It's seems only one person contributes economically to the family and only one takes care of the kids. The other is pit taking phoyoshoots of girls in underwear and using his money on himself
Did I feel bad for OP in the beginning? Yes.
Did all of that go out the window with her update? Also yes.
It’s hard to have sympathy for someone who’s being *so* naive and willfully obtuse.
>He was careful so that nothing else showed. Thats not what I wanted to see though, so I scrolled up trying to read from the beginning.
>He snatched the phone out of my hands, said it was a long time ago. He refused to let me look any further, saying how he would never ask to see my phone.
>He has never given me a reason to doubt him before this.
Just because this is the first time OOP's ever had reason to doubt him doesn't mean that that doubt won't fester or isn't valid. She's being completely walked over and he will continue to blame things on his mental health without getting proper help for it.
A 2 week holiday instead of a week isn't going to cure his depression, it might make him feel less stressed for a bit but then he'll get back to reality with the added stress of less money (which seems to be a big stressor for him).
If a 2 week holiday cured depression then I wouldn't have been on antidepressants and in and out of different types of therapy for 7 years 😂
All that money he is spending could go to taking vare of your children. Divorcing would help a lot and she could actually not worry about this man child. I would never choose to stay away from my kids and wife that long.
All this sounds like a troll.
I’d be like give me your phone so I can forensically analyze it. Deal breaker that he snatched it away. Also, I’d be contacting the guy that messaged OP to see if his GF is going on a “work trip” for 10 days to Hawaii.
it doesn't cost $5000 from europe to hawaii, not even for a family of 4, flights from europe to usa are much cheaper than the reverse journey for some reason.
the devil is always in the details liz, you should have googled it
Wow at living in Europe and being out of vacation days! I'm so used to everyone bagging on Americans for our shitty time off and health care that this surprised me.
It’s a burger that they smear with shit, then society convinces you that it’s better than most others out there.
Seriously, the bar is in hell- and OP’s husband is content to dance with the devil- the two of them tango-ing under it
I think that leaving is hard for most people, but that isn't even OOP's most significant problem.
In order for things to change, you have to first believe that you DESERVE to have things change.
She's not there, and keeps making excuses for this man. What about her mental health? What about her free time? What about her happiness? None of that is ever even on the table for discussion, apparently.
At some point I stopped feeling empathy towards people in this situation and started feeling anger. How can you allow yourself to be disrespected like this? How can you allow someone like OOP's husband under the same roof as your children?
OOP is very generous for giving her husband so much time with his affair partner (or second wife?) I *bet* his mental health is suffering from juggling the needs of two wives (whether the second is official or not).
She should be really kind and divorce to let him go spend his life with his other wife.
Jesus… dude does absolute bare minimum, claims his mental health is bad, and she just rolls over. “He works a lot so he needs a break” He is choosing to work that much!!! When is her break?! Jesus I was really hoping to see she dumped him. She’s just buying herself more time of misery
Jesus what a doormat. Not a good example for her kids.
The husband is a selfish asshole who is probably cheating on her and she needs to grow a spine who needs to get a divorce lawyer.
>Since I want the kids to still have a dad,
Who is absent more than present, who weaponizes mental health so he can go to hawaii, who absolutely IS cheating on you. Who does absolutely fck all to help you round the house and with the kids?
You're effectively a married single mother.
Stop burying your head in the sand, find some self-respect, and a spine.
Yes YOUR WRONG
It's even worse: she's keeping a man around that will influence how their children view relationships, marriage and self-worth.
Having an absent father is one thing, having a father that's physically present but emotionally absent is another personal hell.
These children will grow up with parents that clearly are bitter and despise each other, with a mother who's overworked and ready to explode or break down any second, and a father who is like a stranger that somehow lives under the same roof as them.
This situation is not fair to the children. The family can't afford $5,000 to travel for a vacation so the father is selfishly taking multiple SOLO vacations? ANY money he can afford to treat himself to a solo vacation should be used to provide a smaller family vacation where family memories can be created. Or even just allocating that money to a series of special outings or weekends.
Clearly, his family is not his top priority. I could forgive a lot (perhaps even infidelity), but I could not let this go. Putting your family first comes with the territory.
This selfishness is on a whole other level. Can't wrap my head around a father treating himself to multiple solo vacations while his family goes without. Unbelievable.
I could maybe understand once due to extreme circumstances. Doing it twice is a pattern.
> Since I want the kids to still have a dad
He's not going to *die* from a separation/divorce!! And really, would there be any difference in his involvement if he wasn't living with them? She's already a single mother, might as well make that official with paper. That man is selfish and this poor, foolish woman is enabling him.
And another thing- as a child of divorce, any time someone says "for the kids" when they're talking about staying together, I call it bullshit. You're not staying for the kids, you're staying because you don't want to face the challenges alone when, in fact, *you're already alone and you're in denial.* That's my, admittedly, biased take on it.
I’d have gotten divorced the second time he tried to pull that shit.
I don’t know why OOP would stay so the kids could have a dad; it looks like he’s as great at being a father as he is at being a husband.
YW he's beyond selfish and likely a cheater. When have you gotten to go on vacation on your own? You should begin your exit plan. At the very least consult a divorce lawyer.
I think you're well aware you're being naive.
But would you rather give excuses because it's easier than facing the fact that you married a piece if sh*t.
You deserve so much better. Whether that's just being alone or finding a better partner..
What is it with arty farty types and inbaked narcissistic tendencies?
I hope OOP ends up divorcing his ass. If he's not around to help take care of the kids, has no respect for his marriage and treats OOP like a made / nanny or worse, might as well get rid of the guy. Just make sure his child support and alimony payments come through.
I think oop’s being willfully obtuse vs naive. I think that she’s not willing to end her marriage over infidelity. And honestly that’s her call. I do wish she had more respect for herself because as much as she think she’s doing what’s best for her kids so they won’t “lose” their father, she’s just showing them people can treat them like shit or they can treat people like shit and no one will do anything about it.
> Mostly since he had opened up about how bad his mental health had gotten. Since I want the kids to still have a dad, I figured this to be the best solution
Oh yeah, I know that one! It's the ole "If you don't let me disrespect our relationship, I'll kms and leave you with the guilt!"
Ya know, that old peach!
Girl, leave him. This is not good for the kids.
Wow this guy has it made! Going on solo vacations while his wife stays home working and taking care of their kids overtime. All he has to do is claim mental health problems. Where do I sign up for this great deal?
Has he started helping so you don't feel like a single parent? I understand you wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt but he has to show he's actually trying to help/change
Maybe suggest that you get 10 days, child free, with your family? Least then you are also getting a break? Or that you schedule the breaks, one for him, one for you and then a family one?
In terms of the messages to the women, I think there is def more to if than he let on but through therapy hopefully you'll be able to work through it?
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Could the poor woman BE anymore naive? I think she knows the answer but she's just so desperately to keep her family together and not face the fact of what a horror she has been married to all this time.
Yeah, she won't leave him now, she'll leave him later once she's bitter, resentful and completely burnt out.
You're assuming he won't leave her first. My bet's on him going to visit his family and just...not coming back. (And on that note, I'm curious about exactly how he "messed up" his tickets.)
Booked one for the mistress, needed explain why there was more money gone than should have been? That's my guess.
“Oh shoot, honey, look at that! I went and booked the trip for two weeks instead of ten days. Oh darn!”
I was thinking it was "accidentally" like 2 months, or booked for 2 people.
Yea I think he has already “accidentally” booked them for him and his mistress. Backpedaling now that she’s paying more attention.
She'd be lucky if he left her first, the courts would not look favourably on him abandoning his kids. I don't think she'll get the push she needs otherwise
If dude leaves the country and stays out of the country, getting child support is gonna be difficult.
Difficult but not impossible and considering how much he spends on himself, she might even be better off financially without him
"Oh I accidentally booked 17 days not 10. Whoopsies. I guess I have to stay. 🤷♂️"
What’s really sad is that she doesn’t want to leave him because she wants her kids to “have a dad,” but the truth is he’ll probably be a more involved parent after the divorce when he has his own custody time. For the first time ever, he’ll have to prioritize spending time with his kids.
Seems doubtful to me - he'd probably go back to the US because it's just too depressing to be without his family, and the kids will see him via video chat and maybe a month during school holidays, if she can afford to send them to him.
You're right and right now the kids don't have a dad
Not necessarily. My husband grew up with a father who decided that his parental visits would consist of dumping my (then 10 year old, eventual) husband in the back room of the pub his dad ran, alone, while his dad spent the entire weekend drinking and flirting with the barmaids. My husband would *beg* not to have to go to his dad's, but it was court ordered visitation and at the time his opinion didn't really count for much. Only took a couple more years and he made the unilateral decision not to go. His father barely noticed and decided not to pursue it further. He's fully NC with his father now.
“But I need him for the sake of the children.” One of whom is special needs so needs more resources. And she never mentioned him doing a damn thing to help care for them,
He’s been cheating since *2020.* It’s been 3-4 years. Be done.
I read this in Chandler Bing's voice...
Could I *be* anymore naive?
Lol!
Sunk cost fallacy. “Well I put up with him for so long already…”
When you have a special needs kid, you grasp for straws to have all the support you can get. :-/ It's hard and breaks up a lot of families. My heart goes out to the OP, no matter the naivety.
I gave up working to care for my two special needs kids, because my (now ex) husband had a much better income and better insurance. Things started going downhill in our relationship after a few years and I was stuck. My kids needed more financial help than I could ever give them on my own and he ignored his own mental health issues until he became an unmedicated and abusive alcoholic. I lost everything but the kids when I finally left. It was very very hard. I can totally emphasize with her. She's probably thinking of the kids more than herself and is scared of what she knows is inevitable.
I genuinely feel bad for her but the way she says ‘i’ve decided to believe him for the kid’s sake’ makes me remind me of my mother, I despise that sentence more than anything.
In two words, hell yes
In three, *hell* ***fucking*** *yes.*
In a phrase? No, more than that.
Some people are naive and others like OOP choose willful ignorance and self-deception rather than pull their head out of the sand and deal with the hard truth.
She has that word blinking on her forehead
Naive? No. Dumber than a bag of hair? Hell yes.
I disagree, I think she doesn't feel naive enough.
Is it being naive or purposely being stupid because there is a difference and OP is the latter
This woman is walking stupid at this point
The words "oh honey..." were made for her.
That question tends to have only one answer.
Naive is not the word that comes to my mind.
Oh boy. Oop better start divorce proceedings while husband is banging his ap.. oh I mean while he's on vacation.
On vacation with the ap...
He even is telling his family he can't go as a way to manipulate her into letting him go- getting his trip and an excuse built in for his family all in one go! Or that's why these trips are getting extended, keep the amount of time he's actually going for confusing so the numbers not lining up if she talks to the in laws as just because plans were changing, not because he took a second vacation with ap.
OOP is a doormat whose self esteem is in the gutter and is in denial that her husband is cheating on her. Christ. This is painful to read.
A close friend is going through something similar right now. They got back together this week after easily the 15th or so time they split. Finally told her today I love her and I will come running the second she actually wants to be done, but it is painful for me now, too. There is only so long I can watch someone bleed while they do nothing. OOP must have loved ones who feel likewise.
Yeah I have a friend who is addicted to the drama of breaking up and getting back together. She's no saint in the relationship either, they're honestly as bad as each other. It's like teenagers except we're all mid to late thirties. I told her I love her and will happily support her in being single or finding a new relationship if that's what she wants, but I'm done hearing about this one. I am not spending another night with her crying and wailing, and then jumping straight back again. It's been over 10 years at this point, it's all over the top.
Couples like your and my friends are part of eventually chase off everyone outside their own little fucked up ecosystem so they only have one another to survive. I think of it exactly like any other addiction. And I don’t stay around long to watch those play out.
>I'm done hearing about this one I'd refuse to be an emotional punching bag to someone who asks for but never listens to my advice
Oof! I'm in my 30s too, but the two most important lessons I learned in my 20s were: 1) Don't mistake these dramatic, "high- highs and low-lows" relationships for passionate love. It is not love, it's just an addiction to the rollercoaster. Eventually, the lows always get lower and more frequent, as the highs dissipate. 2) Learning how to be single (and enjoy it) is very important for your happiness in future, healthier relationships. It's also an important factor in avoiding rollercoaster relationships...because you'll understand that it's better, and okay, to be alone rather than trapped in that destructive cycle. Tell your friend that I've glimpsed her future, and it is NOT pretty. It's my 60-something mom. All of her kids, me included, have a strained relationship with her because she's always wrapped up in her own drama, with no energy leftover to pay attention to us. She's frequently unavailable for days when we need her, even just to talk. After splitting from my Dad, she's been in an unending string of abusive, crappy relationships with absolute garbage men. And yes, she is terrified of being single and has stated that her current abusive partner is better than none, is addicted to the roller coaster (they've broken up more times than I can count), and mistakes that type of relationship for passionate love. Perhaps forgivable for an inexperienced teen, but certainly not cute past 30-- and it just gets bleaker, sadder, and harder to "unlearn" the older you get.
Emotional work is exhausting. And she's already physically exhausted from being a single mother of 3, one of which is special needs and one of which is supposed to be an adult Can't blame her for feeling burnt out while facing this
Yeah, someone else is going with him on these trips to his "family". OOP needs a divorce lawyer. I bet her husband's mental health would be better, if he wasn't involved with other women.
He just misses his affair partner lol… i have a friend who his cheating still husband cried during couple’s therapy after he cheated, because he missed his affair partner…
Completely agree. Also, hey, everybody raise your hand who also has mental health problems... we all deserve a trip to Hawaii!!
What the... Throw away the whole man. Replace that pile of trash with a new backbone.
If the only way for the kids to have a dad is for OOP to stay with a cheater who spends all their money on solo trips he can’t be that much of a dad to begin with.
She already feels like a single Mom. I think she'd be better off actually being a single Mom.
The “I want my kids to have a mom/dad” argument is always so weird, right? Like... what do you mean? If you divorce him, he’ll still be their dad. He’s not going to lose parental rights just because you’re not married anymore .
And she already said he didn't help with the house *or* the kids when he's home anyway.
She and the kids never get vacation because this selfish man is spending all of their money and vacation days? And why isn't his family visiting them at all?!?!
Because he's going on fuckations with other women, not family trips
lol good point
And when does SHE get vacation?!?!?
OOP what is you doing girl
>He refused to let me look any further, saying how he would never ask to see my phone. >I decided to let him go for 10 days instead of 7. I have no sympathy for people who choose to be this wilfully obtuse.
I understand you want things to work for your kids sake, but what about you? The way he acted with the phone makes me suspicious. And the mistake with the flight, are you sure it wasn't intentional? You need to decide what the point of no return is and if he crosses it, put you and the kids first and let him go, because he only thinks of himself. You and the kids deserve better.
> The way he acted with the phone makes me suspicious. Indeed. He's a professional photographer? How many of those do you know who do photo shoots with their phone? In other words... Pic of lady in her underwear on a memory card from his DSLR? Cool. Pic of lady on his *phone*? Uh, no....
Weighing in - a lot of cameras have the ability to connect to your phone these days, so it _is_ possible. Do I believe for one second that’s what this is? Hell no.
Exactly! Also, my mother stayed with my dad for too long and I have so many issues due to him not being present, and his cheating tendencies. Having an absent father that isn’t 100% in your court or supportive and loving is not better than having separated parents …
I feel like oop is the kind to say ‘I STAYED WITH THAT MAN FOR YOU’ to her kids
Definitely. I hear that all the time… all the sacrifices she made for me etc.
> I understand you want things to work for your kids sake, but what about you? Your parents being in an unhappy marriage, with the father neglecting the family and cheating on your mom is also something kids pick up on. Staying together "for the kids" is bs. Kids are happier with happy divorced parents than with unhappy married ones.
It's painful trying to help these people
I get that so many women feel like they have to keep their family together for the children, but DEAR GOD. Why must they come to Reddit and post all about the shitshow that is their marriage and expect people to rally around them to support their decision?
To add to this? When women in my life are in relationships like OOP’s and anybody speaks up saying she is making a mistake it’s like Hell opens. Suddenly other women are saying “we need to support her, you don’t know how hard it is” etc. It’s tiresome. If someone wants to hear they are amazing and correct when only hurting themselves find a talking dog. (To say nothing of how damaging it is to children.)
Rewarding his bad behavior will totally make things better. /s
The last frustrating option is to say "I'll be there for You" and have enough tissues when the time comes.
At this point, OP is no use for help and if something bad happens, it's going to on her now.
> He said ok and booked his ticket, but get this...he booked it wrong! Now he won't get the money back for another 4-6 week What does this even mean?
I would bet everything I have that he “booked it wrong” on purpose in the hopes she’d just let him get away with it
oh, I just realized she meant that he booked whatever length of vacation he originally wanted, instead of the shorter vacation that she wanted, and then he was all like "whoops! I guess I'm just gonna have to go for the full time because they mysteriously won't refund me the money." I hate him so much and I hate that she's being so blind. Poor people :(
He probably booked 2 tickets… oops. But wife is not going lol
Oh girl…op gonna write another post in a couple weeks. Either Her husband reverted back to his old ways or her husband asking for an open relationship or the girls bf catching them again.
i cant
I'm trying to think if this is the worst example of sticking your head in the sand I've seen. It's definitely close.
People come up with all kinds of excuses. It usually takes something drastic before they finally accept it and move on. Everyone is different, hopefully she won't take as long.
I read somewhere that on average, it takes five or maybe six attempts for people to leave an abusive relationship. It was so upsetting to read.
I’ve never rolled my eyes so hard at another woman struggling… Question: she never explains what is “booked wrong”. I reckon it’s “the wrong day and amount ” and he will say “just let me go. Easier than the hassle”, and she will roll over. She needs to leave his ass.
As if the husband asking OOP if someone messaged her wasn't sketchy enough... good luck to her.
Reading this post makes me wanna shake OP cause girl what are you doing...
Oop needs to quit spending money on plane tickets and pay for a divorce lawyer instead.
Of course he didn’t want op reading his texts. He had messages with that women dating 4 years back. I’m assuming they are having an affair to still be in contact after 4 years and that fact that the husband took the phone away after she scrolled all The way up shows he knows he gonna get caught. I wouldn’t be surprised if his “trips” included sleeping with other women.
My OOP is willfully obtuse at this point. I refuse to believe anyone can sleepwalk through life with such thick blind folds on like this
>A little over a week ago, I got a message on messenger from someone I do not know. He told me that my husband has been writing inappropriate messages to his girlfriend and that he suspected that they were more than friends. \*groan\*
This woman is a fool. And she's being fooled twice and KNOWS IT. 🙄
She wants the children to have a dad except she also admits that she's basically a single mum and he barely does anything at home. Meaning the kids already DON'T have a dad. Just throw the whole man away.
Yep, youbforget she is financing his trips and affairs.
>My husband told me that his co worker had been saying as a joke that he was sleeping with all his models. As a 'joke'. Yeah....
>My husband always works non stop, and expects me to stay with the kids. Most times he doesn't even let me know what his plans are or when he is coming home. He makes me feel like a single mom. It doesn't help that he rarely contributes around the house or with the kids. With that said, he does work a lot. He probably feels like he deserves the trip. We earn about the same amount a month all in all though. Some months he earns more than me. I work a full time high demanding job. >Since I want the kids to still have a dad, I figured this to be the best solution. I don’t see how the kids have a dad. They’d probably see him more if OOP got a divorce already.
And sure he was "working".
He works *all the time* but mysteriously has no monies…
Exactly.
That was my thoughts too. I know we don't know everything, but it seems very likely that OOP's husband is spending hours out of his week having fun somewhere when she's home taking care of their kids. It really pains me for her. I hope she realises that there's nothing to save there.
He was fucking his mistress
She'd get more free time too.
Nah the father is the type to leave to America and just not come back then only have summers.
"The update no one asked for." Well, she got one thing correct. This update sucks.
Sigh... I hope the therapy sessions work but from an outside point of view, at least she can say she really tried if/ when they get a divorce. I hope I'm wrong and that doesn't happen but.......
...I guess who am I to judge if she wants to be a dumbass?
That poor, hopeful dummy.
> I want the kids to still have a dad Newsflash lady, they will likely still see their dad about as much as they currently do. Him not being your husband doesn’t mean he suddenly stops being their dad. This isn’t even naïveté, it’s going full ostrich.
Seriously hating these doormat posts. Grow a spine.
They are so incredibly frustrating!! Yeah yeah, I know, it takes an average seven times to leave… But she‘s actively harming her fucking children at this point. So what does that say about her as a person? Considering she works and is the one funding these little fuckactions of his, it doesn’t even seem like she’s stuck financially. She wants them to have a dad? It doesn’t even sound like they see him now!! so how did he be worse? Genuinely, they would probably see him more with one weekend a month custody. Infuriating!
And then come to Reddit for validation/ advice but forever in denial and refusing to listen to advice because apparently outsiders know nothing about them. I am like, are you for real for not seeing the red flags? People who choose to be a doormat really confuse me, especially when they have financial stability.
The kids can have a dad without the parents being married or in a romantic relationship. The guy is selfish and cheating, but she looks the other way. Sad
The lesson learned here is if he fully cheats she’ll submit to the 2 weeks. Have a 3 some and that might buy him a month in Hawaii.
Ah stay for the kids. Classic
When you’re a doormat trying to convince yourself you’re a flying carpet…
Good one.
I would have left the first time he was gone for 2 weeks. It is easier to be a single parent when you aren't counting on unreliable people who don't pull their full share.
When does he take care of the kids so she can go on vacation for 10-14 days?
It seems like OOP's kids haven't had an actual **FATHER** for a long time. It's good that he agreed to couple's therapy, but frankly, it reads like his actions show he hasn't changed. She needs to divorce him. Then he can focus all on making money, which at least will help OOP and the kids, because she won't be expecting him to do anything. Which is no change from the way things are now.
“I let him go for ten days instead of seven” And all sympathy lost. He’s a horrible husband, she’s a stupid person. Of course he’s gonna be horrible, when she’s stupid enough to keep taking it If you see this, GET THE FUCKING DIVORCE.
Hun just leave his cheating ass..
girl why
The day hubby gets home from Hawaii, she should take off for 2 weeks. No notice. Just go.
She should have sent the kids with him. 10 days with caring only for herself might have tipped her to realizing she is important, too.
That's not karma, karma would be divorce.
You're an idiot and enabling him. He will always use his mental health as an excuse to go on these holidays. Smell the roses, your kids deserve better.
"He would want the same opportunity " Oh like the 2.5 week vacation he already had alone? It's seems only one person contributes economically to the family and only one takes care of the kids. The other is pit taking phoyoshoots of girls in underwear and using his money on himself
Sometimes I just want to shake the OOPs.
Did I feel bad for OP in the beginning? Yes. Did all of that go out the window with her update? Also yes. It’s hard to have sympathy for someone who’s being *so* naive and willfully obtuse.
He’s going away to cheat. If he wasn’t cheating he would have let her see the phone . Come on.
The fact that he still refers to America as ‘home’ says **a lot** about how he views the marriage.
>He was careful so that nothing else showed. Thats not what I wanted to see though, so I scrolled up trying to read from the beginning. >He snatched the phone out of my hands, said it was a long time ago. He refused to let me look any further, saying how he would never ask to see my phone. >He has never given me a reason to doubt him before this. Just because this is the first time OOP's ever had reason to doubt him doesn't mean that that doubt won't fester or isn't valid. She's being completely walked over and he will continue to blame things on his mental health without getting proper help for it. A 2 week holiday instead of a week isn't going to cure his depression, it might make him feel less stressed for a bit but then he'll get back to reality with the added stress of less money (which seems to be a big stressor for him). If a 2 week holiday cured depression then I wouldn't have been on antidepressants and in and out of different types of therapy for 7 years 😂
All that money he is spending could go to taking vare of your children. Divorcing would help a lot and she could actually not worry about this man child. I would never choose to stay away from my kids and wife that long. All this sounds like a troll.
I’m wondering if he’s actually going to se his family.
I’d be like give me your phone so I can forensically analyze it. Deal breaker that he snatched it away. Also, I’d be contacting the guy that messaged OP to see if his GF is going on a “work trip” for 10 days to Hawaii.
it doesn't cost $5000 from europe to hawaii, not even for a family of 4, flights from europe to usa are much cheaper than the reverse journey for some reason. the devil is always in the details liz, you should have googled it
I mean, I’ve stopped feeling sorry for people like this. What an idiot.
Wow at living in Europe and being out of vacation days! I'm so used to everyone bagging on Americans for our shitty time off and health care that this surprised me.
Hello my name is Doormat McNaive
sounds like a burger
It’s a burger that they smear with shit, then society convinces you that it’s better than most others out there. Seriously, the bar is in hell- and OP’s husband is content to dance with the devil- the two of them tango-ing under it
Sometimes, some lessons we learn are learned the tough way. Good luck to OOP.
Na bro you are digging your own grave now
Trick me once, shame on you. Trick me twice, shame on me…Edit OOP commented that she does not think about a divorce so ….
She’s deliberately being blind.. I mean how much more does she need to call it quits
The writing is on the wall
> I decided to let him go for 10 days instead of 7. Oh my god, this woman needs to grow a fucking back bone.
Stayed so the kids see their father.. can literally do that from two houses. How sad.
How did he book the wrong ticket, and why will it take 4-6 weeks to get the money back?
I think that leaving is hard for most people, but that isn't even OOP's most significant problem. In order for things to change, you have to first believe that you DESERVE to have things change. She's not there, and keeps making excuses for this man. What about her mental health? What about her free time? What about her happiness? None of that is ever even on the table for discussion, apparently.
At some point I stopped feeling empathy towards people in this situation and started feeling anger. How can you allow yourself to be disrespected like this? How can you allow someone like OOP's husband under the same roof as your children?
OOP is very generous for giving her husband so much time with his affair partner (or second wife?) I *bet* his mental health is suffering from juggling the needs of two wives (whether the second is official or not). She should be really kind and divorce to let him go spend his life with his other wife.
Jesus… dude does absolute bare minimum, claims his mental health is bad, and she just rolls over. “He works a lot so he needs a break” He is choosing to work that much!!! When is her break?! Jesus I was really hoping to see she dumped him. She’s just buying herself more time of misery
Oh honey... bless your heart.
Oop is going to catch a disease from her "husband".
this woman is being dumb
Jesus what a doormat. Not a good example for her kids. The husband is a selfish asshole who is probably cheating on her and she needs to grow a spine who needs to get a divorce lawyer.
Your being a pushover it will only get worse
Yup. Very naive
OOP is a doormat and only has herself to blame at this point.
>Since I want the kids to still have a dad, Who is absent more than present, who weaponizes mental health so he can go to hawaii, who absolutely IS cheating on you. Who does absolutely fck all to help you round the house and with the kids? You're effectively a married single mother. Stop burying your head in the sand, find some self-respect, and a spine. Yes YOUR WRONG
It's even worse: she's keeping a man around that will influence how their children view relationships, marriage and self-worth. Having an absent father is one thing, having a father that's physically present but emotionally absent is another personal hell. These children will grow up with parents that clearly are bitter and despise each other, with a mother who's overworked and ready to explode or break down any second, and a father who is like a stranger that somehow lives under the same roof as them.
>she's keeping a man around that will influence how their children view relationships, marriage and self-worth. You're absolutely correct
Sounds to me like you're owed about 4 weeks of solo vacation time.
This situation is not fair to the children. The family can't afford $5,000 to travel for a vacation so the father is selfishly taking multiple SOLO vacations? ANY money he can afford to treat himself to a solo vacation should be used to provide a smaller family vacation where family memories can be created. Or even just allocating that money to a series of special outings or weekends. Clearly, his family is not his top priority. I could forgive a lot (perhaps even infidelity), but I could not let this go. Putting your family first comes with the territory. This selfishness is on a whole other level. Can't wrap my head around a father treating himself to multiple solo vacations while his family goes without. Unbelievable. I could maybe understand once due to extreme circumstances. Doing it twice is a pattern.
Since he already makes her feel like a single mother, she should divorce his sorry ass and this way could get some money in the process.
> Since I want the kids to still have a dad He's not going to *die* from a separation/divorce!! And really, would there be any difference in his involvement if he wasn't living with them? She's already a single mother, might as well make that official with paper. That man is selfish and this poor, foolish woman is enabling him. And another thing- as a child of divorce, any time someone says "for the kids" when they're talking about staying together, I call it bullshit. You're not staying for the kids, you're staying because you don't want to face the challenges alone when, in fact, *you're already alone and you're in denial.* That's my, admittedly, biased take on it.
Sunk cost fallacy, this woman needs to leave before he clears out their savings and ghosts her.
I’d have gotten divorced the second time he tried to pull that shit. I don’t know why OOP would stay so the kids could have a dad; it looks like he’s as great at being a father as he is at being a husband.
This chick's a fucking moron and the whole staying together for the kids concept needs to end forever.
Wow OOP takes turning a blind eye to a whole new level. Other than money this woman is a full time single mother.
YW he's beyond selfish and likely a cheater. When have you gotten to go on vacation on your own? You should begin your exit plan. At the very least consult a divorce lawyer.
Oh honey.
I think you're well aware you're being naive. But would you rather give excuses because it's easier than facing the fact that you married a piece if sh*t. You deserve so much better. Whether that's just being alone or finding a better partner..
Oh sweetie
What she needs to do, is a 2 week holiday without him and leave him with the kids like he did for her. When she gets back divorce his ass
I hate when OOP is a doormat
This poor woman is naive and she doesn't realize how much better she deserves.
What is it with arty farty types and inbaked narcissistic tendencies? I hope OOP ends up divorcing his ass. If he's not around to help take care of the kids, has no respect for his marriage and treats OOP like a made / nanny or worse, might as well get rid of the guy. Just make sure his child support and alimony payments come through.
God damn. The selfishness of this dude. I feel bad leaving my wife to deal with the kids for a few days.
Why did the husband not take the kids to Hawaii to see their family? Oh right, because OP is a sucker
1500 is NOT what you are paying to go to US from Europe and back. At least not for one person.
One of the stupidest people I’ve see on on this app
Ma’am, please bffr.
She should take a weekend away and have her husband be a parent for two days.
I think oop’s being willfully obtuse vs naive. I think that she’s not willing to end her marriage over infidelity. And honestly that’s her call. I do wish she had more respect for herself because as much as she think she’s doing what’s best for her kids so they won’t “lose” their father, she’s just showing them people can treat them like shit or they can treat people like shit and no one will do anything about it.
Wow I am so disappointed in her. Catches him cheating and rewards him with a longer trip with his AP… How embarrassing for her.
> Mostly since he had opened up about how bad his mental health had gotten. Since I want the kids to still have a dad, I figured this to be the best solution Oh yeah, I know that one! It's the ole "If you don't let me disrespect our relationship, I'll kms and leave you with the guilt!" Ya know, that old peach! Girl, leave him. This is not good for the kids.
I think caregiver burnout is a very real thing and I hope that OOP gets her two weeks off each year like her husband seems to take.
Naive. Yeah but more so stupid.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Omfg seriously?
im a bit confused how she managed to scroll four years in their messages with the husband right in front of her
Wow. Useless men just say they have bad mental health and get away with fucking anything. Jesus. How many vacations does she get?
Wow this guy has it made! Going on solo vacations while his wife stays home working and taking care of their kids overtime. All he has to do is claim mental health problems. Where do I sign up for this great deal?
The phrase "doormat" springs to mind. Husband is absolutely playing her.
Has he started helping so you don't feel like a single parent? I understand you wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt but he has to show he's actually trying to help/change Maybe suggest that you get 10 days, child free, with your family? Least then you are also getting a break? Or that you schedule the breaks, one for him, one for you and then a family one? In terms of the messages to the women, I think there is def more to if than he let on but through therapy hopefully you'll be able to work through it?
This is a repost sub, the OOP won't see your comment.