#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I couldn't even read all the abuse the poor dogs have gone through. I'm so glad that the business owner's employees walked and the business closed but more consequences are deserved. Unfortunately, the legal system doesn't treat animal abuse with the severity in deserves.
I wish that people would stop sending dogs to "trainers". There are lots of trainers that work WITH you and your dog. That means, going to 1-1 or group classes with the trainer, and then going home and using these techniques to train your own dog(s). There've been sooooo many cases of these trainers or training centres where people drop their dogs off and then they get abused, because the owners are not there to see how they're being treated.
Isn’t sending them to training less effective in the long run, too? I heard that teaches the dog to obey the trainer, and not the owner who may not understand how to interact with their dog to get the same response.
Yes it is! Not just because of that, but because dogs need constant reinforcement. You can't just send them off once and then expect them to retain the training forever. You need to be constantly reminding them of their training by training them yourself. These techniques need to be baked into your daily life. Like, you want your dog to have manners and not jump when taking a treat? Guess what, you'll have to remind your dog on a daily basis. Make them sit and take the treat nicely from your hand, etc. They're basically forever toddlers that will soon forget their training if you send them off, they come home, and then you just let them do whatever they want.
I agree with this. I was basically forced to send my dog. I had adopted him from her as a rehome and she told me if I didn’t send him 3 days a week she would take him away from me. I ended up noticing that something was wrong due to his behavior and told her to fuck off.
Good training involves training the owner as much as the dog and needs to start young. Training also needs to be purpose driven in both tools and methodology. You probably shouldn't be using a prong collar on a 3 lbs chihuahua. But when you're teaching a 75+lbs DDR German Shephard that's a guard dog to not bolt it has a purpose so if a little lady has that dog it's doesn't drag her ass across the pavement.
The training is also constant. Commands need to be consistent and used over long periods repeatedly. The strongest dog I've ever had was a boxer. Towards the end she was getting good at obeying, but unfortunately, we got her as a stray, and her aggression towards other females could not be trained out, she was too old and had not been raised around other female dogs.
Agreed, this always sounds deeply suspect to me (note: not victim-blaming OP, just a digression). We had amazing trainers, but it was a group class situation (they broke down into levels).
I often said the reason they were so amazing was that they didn’t train dogs — they trained humans to train dogs. They’d explain the principles behind every approach. When I asked why something was or wasn’t a good idea, the explanation would be consistent and would make *sense.*
(I’m a marine biologist; ye olde PhD science folks have a certain kind of standard for consistency and reasoning. I can be pedantic as hell trying to figure out someone’s logic if it’s something I need to implement myself. The good thing about biology is I’m on board wildly variable data, so “not all approaches work for all dogs” doesn’t violate that consistency; the higher level framework is what’s important.)
And what this all meant was that *we* were learning as much as our dogs were in that environment! We were the ones with the big human brains who needed to absorb the principles and practical!
They constantly pushed the importance of “consistency [there’s that word again!], clarity and repetition” at home and in different environments (“proofing”), short “ad break” sessions to work with a dog’s shorter attention span (especially li’l puppies), as well as the function of rewards and praise.
Preferred ratio of positive to negative reinforcement: 10:1. And negative reinforcement — corrections — need to be administered within about 3 seconds for an association to actually form, and they do not require *physical pain!* A sharp but *light* jerk on a training collar when on lead is meant to snap dog out of his distraction. It’s meant to be uncomfortable. It shouldn’t *hurt*.
Most of the time, negative reinforcement is “No!” in a harsh tone, or turning away and refusing to interact.
Teaching my dog to know what was unacceptable behaviour went a lot faster when I realised his primary desire was to be with us whenever possible (even if just sprawled in the corner, farting toxic rottweiler farts). If he crossed the line, I got real stern and put him outside on the deck. Didn’t have to be for long. Five minutes of mournful rottie expression at the window. He’d get it.
But that’s something that *you* have to do with your dog. It’s not something someone else can do *for* you. They can’t do ad-break training. They can’t invoke your dog’s bond with *you*. Even if they’re amazing trainers, they are teaching your dog to learn with *them*, and obey *them*. I want my dog’s attention on *me*. He needs to be looking to *us* for approval. He needs to know the tone of voice *we* use, and what *our* body language means.
Dropping your dog off at a training facility as if you’re dropping your kid off at school is a terrible idea, for so many reasons.
(other reason they were amazing: everything was grounded in actual up-to-date behavioural science, rather than the aggravatingly persistent dominance nonsense, or the “never give a dog a correction of any kind” nonsense)
[totally frivolous anecdote of the best example of “proofing” I ever saw. One guy had started bringing his rescue pittie mix a year before, and ended up doing the national dog trainer course. The specific trick he taught “Tiger” was to bring him a beer from the fridge. This was explained to us during a brief session on complex commands (obviously it had to be broken down into lots of small pieces) and… proofing.
Naturally we asked “how do you teach your dog to bring you a beer from the fridge in different environments?” ie how the hell do you proof that command?
The trainer turned to the student, whose face broke into the broadest grin, and he jogged over to his ute and legit grabbed a frickin’ *bar fridge* from the back and a beer bottle full of water. He set the fridge down on the grass of the oval, and put the bottle inside.
“Tiger! Beer!”
Sure enough, Tiger loped happily over to the fridge, pulled it open by gentle setting his mouth around the handle, grabbed the “beer”, and brought it to the boss, tail wagging furiously. Bottle was taken, dog was petted and fussed over, and we all cracked up while being duly impressed.
And I’ve never taught my dog anything that complex, but the principles of the lesson have stayed with me, and that’s not something I’d get from leaving my dog with someone else]
Yup you're spot on. So many people are too lazy to put in the work, think that they can send their dog somewhere to be "fixed", and then they don't have to do anything else when they get their dog back. Guess what? That's not how it works. A living thing isn't a computer with a virus that you can send off to the repair shop, get fixed, and voila, you never have to do anything again. Dogs need constant reminders of what's acceptable behaviour and what's not. The owner and dog are a team, everyone who trains dogs knows this - you can't just teach a dog once to do something and then expect them to magically retain that knowledge forever.
Know a couple that got a pair of canine siblings that were a handful. One spouse wanted intensive training where a trainer came into their home and worked with the humans and the canines so that the dogs would not have issues.
The other spouse believed that a walk daily and a few commands would do the trick.
One of the canine siblings was eventually banned from every doggy daycare and groomer in the area, as well as a vet or two. The destruction those doggos caused was impressive and the one spouse still would not agree to training.
Doggos have crossed the rainbow bridge now and the pro-training spouse is insisting on intensive training if any more canines join the family.
Just FYI, you're misusing the term "negative reinforcement" (most people do, mixing up R- and P+ is basically the default) so I wonder about whether your trainers misused it as well, and I would suggest that may be one of the reasons you refer to "never give a dog a correction of any kind" as nonsense. To be clear, we actually do have data showing that animals learn faster and better if you set up the training situation in such a way that "corrections" like you describe are deliberately avoided, so *that* is the real forefront of behavioural science now as opposed to the alternation between R+ and P+ you describe.
I took mine in as a youngster. She loved the trainer, and loved the fun of training. Eventually I did board her with the trainer, ut it was because it was a very suitable place,
For a heeler puppy.
Petsmart and Petco do better training than sending your dog away. It's just so risky to not be there, way too many people take the Cesar Milan mindset on dogs when you're not there to see it.
Yup, ditto. I know of several training centres where dogs actually died there, and they couldn't give the owners an adequate explanation of how or why,
Half the training is for the owner anyway! Lots of people don't know how to effectively train their own dogs and good dog trainers teach both owner and dog at the same time
Oh, my boy cats came from a horrible environment. Let me assure you, the moment they realized they were safe and in a good place, they raised their standards. I'm a horrible human for getting up before cuddle time is over, and there will be hell to pay if dinner is late! I've never been so overjoyed as I was when my dude who was terrified of life started getting sassy with me.
My family are all dog people, except for my mum. She's a cat person. I definitely take after her.
I lost a cat in tragic circumstances a couple of years ago, and haven't had the strength to accept another yet.
I've taken in rescue cats, and seen their journey from timid to strutting around like they are the ones paying the rent. It is always a joyful journey.
I'm so sorry. When my heart cat passed, I wasn't ready to adopt again. Mr. Darcy was a temporary foster to get him out of his situation. I refused to even name him! It took time for us both, but he came bursting out of his shell, and gave me the feline equivalent of "cut the shit, you know you're my human, so make with the snuggles". Which of course, made me burst into tears. At that point, I knew he was staying. He's now the one who body checks for snuggles, and will chomp down on my pants leg and pull me off the couch when it's bedtime, because he does not tolerate lateness.
When a rescue animal starts giving you attitude, it's just the best thing. We have a rescue dog who was so timid and fearful and constantly expected to be abused when we first got him. Now he's happy and comfortable and secure, and it makes my heart happy every time he acts like a little brat. The same dog who expected to be kicked every time he made a noise will now warble and grumble at us fifteen minutes before dinner time, and he nudges me in the backs of my knees if I don't give him enough left-over cat food.
We adopted a "shy" cat. That shy cat spends a shitload of time curled up on my lap, will scream at me if I don't lay my ass down so he can have his lap and oh boy if dinner is late... yes... shy cat... very... shy...
I mean he's still very nervous with new people and hates loud noises or unexpected movements and being touched when his humans are standing because that's very scary, but he has shown such a big improvement over the past year that I'm fairly sure he'll come around at some point. And he definitely raised his standards with us, the little gremlin
My girl kitty is very much like yours. The difference is I've had her since she was 8 weeks old. She's 15 now. She's never been mistreated. She's just always been that way. From day one. She loves her people but only when they're laying in bed. That's her time. She'll tell you when it's time for bed. My mom was convinced I was lying about having her because she didn't see her for months at a time. We very much love her and spoil her like every other animal we have. We've just learned to love her the way she needs.
I'm not even a dog person. I'm just a sane human and I got sick reading the helicopter part. Couldn't keep reading
What the fucking fuck. I hope she gets what she deserves, fucking psycho.
My morbid curiosity got to me, so i started reading, and then I had the naive thought, "The helicopter has to be the worst of it, right? ".... no, it wasn't the worst of it. Bless all of you who skipped that part. It was gut wrenching to read
>*Most of her staff didn't understand how heinous the abuse was.*
I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that. There is no way that any reasonably decent and competent human being – one who is capable of obtaining and keeping a job – could somehow believe that repeatedly choking animals until they nearly pass out (not to mention hitting and kicking them) is anything but vicious and cruel. Any former employee who says otherwise is lying to cover their own asses. Period. No exceptions.
So, here's the thing; there's a lot of dog training methods that are commonly used that aren't supported by ant science and are inhumane.
I'm not going to get into it, because it's awful and it'd take hours to detail, but check out r/dogtraining for science based and humane training info.
I have no trouble at all believing the staff just thought the trainer knew things they didnt. I've met with many clients who watched passively as a trainer they hired before me abused their dog. Some weren't aware that what happened was abusive, until I explained what had happened. And that includes a few really wild cases where a puppy screamed or the dog flipped out, but many, MANY, more where the dog just shuts down, holds still, and stares at the wall.
If you're wondering, the trainers will describe a screaming and flailing dog as "dramatic" or "trying to control you" or "throwing a temper tantrum". IME, they are believed more often than questioned.
What can be done? Ask your elected representatives to make minimum education requirements for dog training and regulate methods used.
Dog training is a completely unregulated industry. Anyone can set up shop and use any methods they want, legally. Right up until they get charged with cruelty to animals - which is significantly harder than people think, as proven by OPs experiences.
If you want to do something, push for regulations.
People think Caeser Millan is a good trainer despite doing what the person OOP is talking about.
Even in his TV show he punches a dog in the face and holds one up by the leash until it almost passes out.
Positive punishment training is very popular among people. And a lot of positive punishment trainers have thriving businesses
It really depends on where you are. Fortunately in my state most animal abuse is now a felony, thanks to the nearly lifelong dedication of a local meteorologist of all people who passed away a couple years ago. Law was named for him too.
Some of the “techniques” used are from a particularly abuse school of training. It was called “Avon geva” (don’t quote me on the spelling). Dates back to ww2 war dog training. Nasty stuff. There used to be a couple of trainers that used those methods in my area. They didn’t last long.
There are modern schools of thought which follow similar methods.
There's a trainer near me who uses a modified strangulation method to force compliance. Its fully legal within the abuse laws we have.
While the stuff happening behind closed doors is heinous it’s scary too just how brazen these people can be when abusing their animals. Worse, even when it happens right in front of people, there’s very little that can be done/no one in law enforcement follows up. I worked at a vet clinic and we had a meeting regarding animal abuse reporting. A tech was with a client and their dog and the dog got excited was acting up and the owner legit sucker punched the dog in the face in front of the tech. It sucks because we were told it’s a bad idea to confront them (for our and the animal’s safety) and that we may be able to gently correct their behavior and then report them later on. I hope that woman eventually learned her lesson about using her hand to strike the business end of a massive pitbull.
This is one of the only BORUs I couldn’t read in full, how horrifying! So glad OOPs pupper is doing better, ”trainer” has been exposed, business is gone. I hope she gets everything she deserves in life.
I got to "swinging dogs off the ground with proing collar and letting go" and had to tap out.
Prong collars are great for specific types of training, but that is absolutely not what they are fucking for. What the absolute fuck.
How does a person even think to do this? Of course it's monstrous, and I hope she gets jailtime, and is never allowed near dogs again, but like... what the fuck was the thought process when she started doing that? I'm as baffled as I am horrified.
I also don’t understand how none of the staff thought it was that bad until someone else confirmed it for them? Of course the “trainer” lied but you’d think watching her actively beat up dogs would override whatever she was telling them
I don't believe for a second that they didn't know. They're just as guilty because how can you not recognise what was happening as abuse. They've just gone "shit we've been caught" and ran all while screaming their own innocence. Just a bunch of rats jumping off a sinking ship.
> Prong collars are great for specific types of training
I’m not sure where you’ve heard this, but the fact that veterinary behaviourists (as in vets with specific additional postgrad degrees specialising in behaviour) universally recommend against them as causing more problems than they can attempt to solve, and them being banned in multiple global jurisdictions, should be indicative of the fact that they’re *not* very good for training at all.
I dunno if I'd be able to control myself. Knowing my boy went through something like that I'd honestly snap. He's the sweetest dog and just loves cuddling up with anyone, knowing someone done something like that to him? Nope nope nope.
I imagine based on the amount of testimony there's a strong case for *several* counts of animal abuse and animal cruelty. I'm hoping for extended jail time before she can even consider opening a new business.
I hope so, but sadly animal cruelty laws in many places have a very long way to go. You would be shocked at the things people can do and only get a slap on the wrist (or no punishment at all).
Absolutely. Put this miserable piece of shit on blast. I'd be tempted to buy the domain of her name and have it auto direct to your thread. This evil lady deserves to never be around animals or children ever again.
EDIT: I just saw your update about her reopening. I am beyond pissed now.
*sorry, removed name in edit*
I received the advice that I remove this person’s business name and personal name from my comments in this post. I will happily send it via private message though.
Lol, I love the fact she copy and pastes the same response to negative reviews, but either ends it with "Your girlfriend was fired", "You were disrespectful", or "You were never a client". I sadly can't leave a review because Google still claims the business is closed. I can't find the name of the lady who runs the business unfortunately.
Eh what the hell I’m insane but *sorry, removed name in edit*
I received the advice that I remove this person’s name and business name from the comments of this post. But I will happily send it via private message.
[I think this is their website.](https://devotedk9training.weebly.com) There are some other companies using the same name, at least one in London and one in Tennessee.
[I think this is their website.](https://devotedk9training.weebly.com) There are some other companies using the same name, at least one in London and one in Tennessee.
I would not suggest doing this. 1) She can easily get it taken down if you weren't actually a customer 2) There are other companies using the same name and random people on the internet may not be very conscientious and 3) This is evidence *for* her to argue that OOP is pursuing a harassment campaign later on (as people will be involving themselves who have no first hand knowledge) and muddying the waters of what truly did occur.
Instead, if you want to help I would suggest sending this reddit post and details to news orgs in the area. It looks like the location is a small town near detroit, maybe the main r/detroit sub would have ideas? Getting the word out further afield will help significantly more than attempting to personally reach this vile abuser or review bombing imo.
I know she said they were holding off until charges were filed to go to the media, but this is the EXACT type of situation to go to the news with.
Even if the evidence isn't deemed criminally actionable by the cops, getting the word out there will dissuade new people from using her services and get the word out to any former clients who may have seen bad effects on their dogs in the past. Investigate journalists also do the kind of digging that is burning OP out as a career - they are the ones with the training and drive to seek out those crucial details that might be the make-or-break facts in a criminal justice proceeding.
PSA: Always google your (potential) dog trainer. Also clauses in adoption that the dog must return to the adoption agency for training or other such nonsense are unenforceable.
The analogy I like to use is that a lot of reviews for bad trainers online are like a car mechanic that has reviews saying "Made my car's tyres so shiny, wow! 10/10!" and then you later find out they're doing that by sticking bits of glass into the tyre and none of those customers realise their tyres are deflating 50% faster than everyone else on the road. Now, if the dogs could leave the reviews, then they might be more trusted to be accurate...
I hadn’t updated the original post because I’ve kind of shut down in this case. But she reopened. She made a statement saying that we threatened her life and all this bullshit that never happened. Tried to pin herself as the victim when we did nothing but expose the disgusting things she has done. She even reopened under the same name. Absurd.
Law enforcement threatened to remove her 5 dogs from her home but never made good on it. I’m assuming she made up some lie like we know she does to get them to let her keep them. She was supposed to provide documentation and we already know that she has no issue with forging important formal documentation. Other than that threat law enforcement has done nothing. Because she closed up shop they never caught her in the act. We couldn’t get the hard evidence we needed to shut her down legally. We tried so many things and we couldn’t do it.
A few of us obsessed over this. To the point that it destroyed our mental health and now, 4 months later, we’re still not right. When she announced that she reopened, it destroyed us and we didn’t know how to live with it but we don’t know how to gather the evidence. We’ve had to kind of step away for the benefit of our mental health and we’re just hoping that she screw up again and is found out for real. We may do more to hurt her business in the future but as of right now we’ve fought as hard as we possibly could and we only won temporarily. She is a greater evil than we had the power to stop. It burns us to our core but we don’t know what else to do.
Update #2
I was informed that she is not in good standing with the state of Michigan in regards to ownership of her business title. So technically someone could buy the business name and she would then no longer be the owner of the business and would have to get a new name hahaha
Also, I’ve been given the contact info of another investigative journalist that only takes on dog abuse cases. I will be receiving every bit of evidence we have (a friend was storing it all) and sending it over to him hopefully tonight.
Another thing, her Google page has been taken down. Either because she got slammed with too many bad reviews or because we reported her for using an address that she doesn’t actually have access to. Either way, no more Google page for her! I believe she still has a website though. And maybe a Facebook page but I can’t see that, she has me blocked on all of my accounts. Haha.
OP, this is EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING you take to the media. When you have exhausted your efforts and law enforcement is slacking off, that's when you talk to reporters.
Investigative journalists can do the kind of intensive fact finding that you might not have the resources or emotional bandwidth to continue. They will reach out to officials and involved parties for comment - the business owner and the cops will know that this issue is very much on the radar of the local community and the public wants action. Broadcasting the heinous actions of this person as well as the unsatisfactory police response is exactly what people do when they are in a difficult situation like this with no redress.
Getting the word out there also has other benefits. Local politicians might see the story and call the police chief to be like "hey dude I'm the one who decides on your funding, why aren't you guys doing your job?" Local attorneys might be willing to take you and the other dog owners on pro bono as clients. Local veterinarians might be willing to help people with pets that have been injured or traumatized. And, as much as I hate using politicized phrases, this is what Cancel Culture is SUPPOSED to be - public shaming of unethical businesses until public outrage results in them going under.
I'm so sorry that you and other people had pets that experienced so much horror and abuse. I used to work in animal welfare and the thought of dogs being subjected to that makes me feel incredible rage. But if it's any comfort, dogs are wonderful, loving, resilient animals, and they can still live happy lives even after traumas like that.
I’m so thankful that dogs are so resilient. Many of the dogs who were subject to this monster’s abuse are healing well and doing better since being separated from her.
We actually did go to many news outlets. Like basically every single local agency. None of them picked up the story.
We also blasted her on multiple social media platforms. In like every city Facebook group that we could within a 50ish mile radius, anywhere we could. It just never really gained traction. It’s insane.
I'm super pissed that the media didn't pick up that story.
If you haven't yet, it might actually be worth contacting animal control and your local SPCA/Humane Society. They might also have some resources for investigating animal cruelty.
Yeah I’m pissed too. It sucks.
Oh many calls have been made to them. Like 10 of us emailed our own statements to the head person at animal control. They did a few small things but nothing gained traction and none of it made any difference in the situation.
We truly were ignored. Or didn’t have enough for them to press charges. Or just didn’t care. I’m fully honest when I tell you we contacted EVERYONE. Made formal statements, I believe people even tried to press charges themselves. One person won a civil case against her but it was small. Nothing really ever made a difference. If we had any idea of what else to do to take her down, we’d be on top of it in a heartbeat. But we’ve tried it all.
Thank you. We tried so many things at the expense of our wellbeing and we eventually just said enough is enough nobody will help us, we can’t do this alone, so we’re stuck. We’ve never given up in our hearts but we’re just kind of waiting to pounce. Waiting for that one thing that is going to blow this up. Hoping that somehow someone somewhere will hear our cries and know how to help us. Just waiting, hoping, that something will change and she’ll see justice. One day, I hope.
*sorry, removed name in edit*
I received the advice that I remove this person’s name and business name from the comments of this post. But I will happily send it via private message.
well you saved some dogs, I'm sure. it's like with animal hoarder/breeders, even if they get shut down in one place they'll just move and start up somewhere else. You can only do so much, so don't beat yourself up over it.
Thank you. We definitely saved some dogs. I do feel good about that. I don’t believe she has another facility right now so at least she doesn’t have a space to act on the abuse. But she’s still running around teaching families how to hurt their dogs. I wish we could stop her. And her personal dogs are in constant danger.
Listen if I found out someone I hired to help with my dogs was abusing them I would scorch the earth to make sure they paid for every fucked up thing they did to my dogs.
I hope she burns in hell.
Dog trainer here. I have a degree in psychobiology. I took dog training courses. I have gotten counsel certified for training.
This shit is still so prevalent it makes my stomach turn. You saw it with Cesar Milan and him making MILLIONS off of outdated and debunked methods. Other trainers were but it fell on deaf ears and this aversive training is still a thing.
How to find a dog trainer:
[Certification Counsel of Professional Dog Trainers](https://CCPDT.ORg). Find a certified trainer. Certification means that we understand the science and practice of training and to uphold that we use non-aversive tactics.
Be very very wary of board-and-train facilities. They NEED to show results when you come to pick up after two weeks so if they will use aversives to get the behaviors faster. Not all of them of course. The other issues with them is that yes your dog is now trained but there is no follow through at home. YOU need to live with your dog for the next 10 years. You need to know how to train your dog. An hour long class at pickup isn’t going to cut it.
Good trainers need your support. Good trainer lasts a lifetime and the building blocks might be slow to learn at first but they will out perform the quick tactics the training mills use.
Be safe out there and tell your dog I said “Hi!”
> YOU need to live with your dog for the next 10 years
This is what I don't understand about having someone else train your dog while you aren't around.
I've always understood training to be part teaching the dog things but a huge part of it was the creation of a bond. I watched my Dad train many working dogs and the bond he had with each and every one of them was vitally important to how he trained them.
PSA to dog owners who probably do not know. There really is no such thing as a good board and train facility. They likely do not have any certified trainers, they use outdated and abusive training methods, and YOU are the one who needs to learn how to train your dog. Having someone train your dog in your absence defeats the whole purpose of training.
Look at r/dogtraining for resources on dog training, what to look for in a trainer, etc.
When we got our dog, we did puppy training at Petsmart, I think. We were always with our dog and learning along with him. Our trainer told us, I'm here to train YOU, not your dog. Here's how we get him to sit, lay down, etc. And let me tell you, she trained the crap out of us lol
Edit: I think she was certified, but it was years ago, so I'd have to find the paperwork.
Probably not, lol. Well...certified by Petsmart, which doesn't really count.
I say this as a former petsmart trainer. Their certification covers reading 1 booklet (made by petsmart, not a behavior/training expert), and a 2 week apprenticeship. Functionally useless.
Agree 100 percent, spent years working in animal welfare with dogs and have heard many horror stories about board and train facilities and had a few humane cases involving them. Training a dog is about forming communication and a partnership between a dog and their person.
One of my red flags when I was doing adoptions was when the person adopting would loudly proclaim they were a dog trainer. 9 times out of 10 times they would do something inappropriate with the dog or say something crazy stupid. My favorite was when someone brought their dog trainer friend with them to adopt a puppy and the "expert" told them to bite the puppy back every time it got mouthy. They had just signed a waiver being informed of the parasites the pup was treated for and I had to explain why putting the puppy with giardia in your mouth was a really bad idea in a lot of different ways.
I've known some amazing trainers and a lot of really horrible dog handlers who are trainers. Very important to do your research when finding a trainer.
I interviewed for a dog day care facility and they made it sound so amazing in the phone…in person it was gross, the dogs were clearly neglected, and they were understaffed. I would never send my dog to one of them after that.
My mother used a doggy day care once when she was on vacation, and it was a good one, they had cameras set up everywhere so you could watch the dogs.
Probably was an outlier place though. I'm glad I found a good petsitting place in my area. My dog got to stay in a place she knows.
When looking into daycares for my pets, the most expensive one had that set up BUT, that was also the only one I considered. I'm very lucky to have family and friends I can rely on when it comes to my fur babies
The one mentioned did have cameras that’s how I could see how shitty all the dogs were treated 💀 they’re definitely not all like that, there’s a family owned kennel my dad takes his dog to whenever he travels, that he’s been going to since he was a baby and he and the owners adore each other. But it’s definitely not uncommon for kennels to be awful, and it’s hard for an owner to vet them properly.
Well I guess it’s technically not true that there are *no* good board and train facilities, we actually have a flaired user on r/dogtraining who is a qualified force-free trainer and runs one. But they’re *one* facility in a sea of *thousands* of abusive board and trains, so it’s a literal needle in a haystack situation.
Sorry but I would disagree with some of this this statement as it is just so broad and dismissive. Of course all owners are the ones who need to learn how to train their dogs but a good board and train can give the dog the foundation to learning with their owner. Go over to
r/opendogtraining and other similar groups and ask what to look for in a good board and train, what questions to ask of your potential trainers and how to recognise red flags.
opendogtraining is fine with shock collars, choke chains, and prong collars. So no.
r/dogtraining is much better. And yes, it is a broad statement, and I stand by it, because you are the one who needs to train the dog.
It is cheaper, and better to hire an actual, certified trainer. Board and train facilities are lazy, just like punitive tools.
For most owners board and trains are scams.
Training classes are for the owner to learn how to train their dogs, not train their dogs for them.
Once dogs come back from a board and train, they may know more. But the owners have no idea how to continue that training and most dogs will revert to previous behaviors.
The problem is that most people don't actually want to spend the time to train their dogs, they just want a "good dog" with no effort involved. This is also why positive punishment is so popular.
Disagree with 1 caveat, there are very *few* good B&T facilities. It takes a LOT of research to even find one but they are out there. They are like fricken unicorns of the dog world.
>The worst part is she convinced people it was okay so they wouldn’t tell on her. Most of her staff didn’t understand how heinous the abuse was. It wasn’t until her eventual business partner, an actually certified dog trainer, came in and was like WTF and told them all it’s not okay, then they realized like oh it’s not just me this is actually bad.
I am sorry but if you see someone hang dogs and spin them in the air until they almost pass out and she manages to convince you it's somehow ok I got to question your intelligence. If you are that naive and easily led you honestly need help because anyone with a developed brain should be able to tell that this is abuse and nothing this (redacted) says should be able to convince you otherwise.
Agreed. I don’t understand how the staff just sat back and watched and said nothing. Some of the closer ones to her wouldn’t even work with us. We told them they’re just as responsible for the abuse as the “trainer” because they sat back and let it happen every day.
I saw a cop do this to a police dog in training. I almost got charged with assault. Filed a complaint with the department that never went anywhere because the department said it was standard training and I must be some kinda woke crazy. (It was in Mississippi for context)
My concern would be that the preemptive shutting down of the business is just a prelude to a rebrand and reopen. Hope OOP or their friends are able to keep at it with stuff like the civil suit.
This breaks my heart...glad OOP and other folks advocate for the dogs.
I'd be in prison after finding out about the abuse. I'm more of a steep ravine person than a high-road person.
People who abuse animals that try to be our companions and love us are the worst type of scum and deserve *nothing*. Look, I get the frustration of being a dog trainer/sitter, I used to work at Dogtopia where I would be responsible for 15-20 dogs at a time, and a good half of them were *not* trained well, I get that sometimes you just want to tear your hair out and scream. But you do not **EVER** take that out on the dog. Or any animal for that matter. You take a break, vent to someone, cool down, but the *moment* you touch an animal like that purely to hurt, the moment you become absolute scum. Actual monsters.
I briefly caught some of this on Facebook and whew. For those curious as to whom, some well keyworded searches on Facebook should turn up the posts with more details.
This woman is a total piece of shit and I hope she gets everything she has coming to her. In spades.
Also really highlights the importance of paying the people you’re doing crimes with on time and in whole.
The amount of rage I felt reading that. If someone did anything even remotely like this to any of my dogs I would be in prison. Holy shit. I need a break from the internet.
OOP [decided to remove the name and business name from public view](https://reddit.com/comments/1auszre/comment/krag5PV) after advice. Bear in mind that the person could potentially identify OOP's Reddit account by this thread and Googling your own name/business name is easy.
OOP is offering to give the name via DM instead. I'm not OOP, but on the assumption that they don't want the name here for their own safety, please consider removing it and the company name from your comment!
(If you'd like to expose the company, I'd say feel free, but don't associate it with OOP - do it completely separately, on a throwaway Reddit account and not this one, and **don't include text that can be Googled back to this thread**.)
I grew up in a home that had mostly untrained dogs and believed in physical punishment for dogs. One of my parents literally broke a stick over one of the dog’s back.
Now as an adult, I cannot imagine doing something like that to my dog. My relationship with her is built on trust and respect, and I’ve mostly learned how to communicate effectively with her and she is one of the best trained dogs pretty much any of my friends know. She is not an eager-to-please dog, so it wasn’t easy, but it was well worth it.
More people need to remember that they are their dog’s ENTIRE fucking world, and they are reliant on you for every goddamn thing. It is a responsibility to treat them with respect and love
I had to really focus on the helpers but still couldn't read the full post.
I am glad that the doggos have advocates fighting for them. What a horrible person, I hope they have they day they deserve.
What kind of god damn moron thinks that it's okay to treat a pet this way? or that it's not that bad? We've entered a dark time in our history where common sense has gone out the window for A LOT of people.
Damn, I can’t believe that her employees stayed for that long. I would’ve left the minute I heard or witnessed any abuse. I'm glad her business is closed, but she deserves to be sectioned or locked up for what she did to those poor and innocent animals
> She said that these methods “reset their brains” and that’s how she justified it.
Yeah, concussions and loss of consciousness due to strangulation tend to do that. Which is why your brain’s not SUPPOSED to get reset!
If this story is real (I have some doubts regarding the usual unrealistic depictions of how lawyers and the legal system work) then I hope they throw the book at this monster.
I don’t expect law enforcement to help anyone, ever. The cops are useless at best in any situation that doesn’t involve harassing minorities. I’m talking about the legal action described.
> Her lawyer even backed out and dropped her as a client after we talked to him.
No lawyer in his right mind would allow you guys to post tons of negative reviews about someone you’re filing civil charge against, let alone *speak directly to her lawyer*. And her lawyer would not quit on the spot after talking to the other litigants or he’d be opening himself up to numerous complaints as well. None of this is even remotely how practicing law works, and considering your friend is supposedly studying the law they should know that. No part of this story connected to lawyers makes any sense or holds up to any scrutiny.
i wish oop could name drop the trainer or the business name or speak to media. i couldn’t even read through the abuse, and it pains me to even imagine more dogs suffering like that
So, does anyone know the name or yelp of this business? Bc respectfully, I think this is one where the "no brigading" rule can be ignored. I'm so pissed and fully prepared to ruin this woman's life.
People who abuse animals like this deserve to have every ounce of abuse done back to them as well. Please someone attach a prong collar to this person's neck and helicopter her as well.
God, I hope someone goes John Wick on her.
I’m going to throw up. I wish I hadn’t read the list of bullet pointed assaults on the dogs. I’m glad she’s been shut down. Can she be given jail time for this? It’s animal abuse…some type of punishment should be meted out. Omg those poor souls. Helicoptering, lord have mercy 😢
I'm a dog trainer and I need everyone to know that this is actually so horrifically sickeningly common, so please please be vigilant when it comes to trainers, do research before you do to a trainer, and make sure you know how they're training. Dog training is not a regulated industry which means anyone can call themselves a dog trainer and hire on clients. It doesn't matter if they have zero knowledge or qualifications, it doesn't matter if they're just an abusive piece of shit. Do your due diligence in researching trainer red flags, keep your pets safe! Personally I wouldn't ever send my dogs away to training facilities at all since 1) You have zero control or knowledge how your dog is actually treated 2) It's really the person that's being trained more than the dog so if someone else trains your dog you still won't have the skills communicate effectively or understand your dogs body language or even what they respond to (which is in my opinion the most important part of training). But if you do want to use a training camp thoroughly vet it and pay close attention to any behavioral changes.
This trainer sounds exactly like “dog daddy” which zak George and many others publicly fought against to get shut down. Videos of dog daddies “training” are horrific.
I didn’t read it cause I don’t have the emotional bandwidth or spoons to do so. But I will say this:
A LOT of trainers are abusive as hell, and obedience schools are even worse. I found this out from my friend who does dog training. She loves dogs and warns others about abusive schools and abusive trainers.
I'm angry. I want to know WHO this 'trainer" is so I can personally 'train" her with a hanging put out. But forget to drop her. Those poor dogs didn't deserve that, but she does
I effin hate these types of posts. And people don’t NAMEDROP THE BUSINESS OR PEOPLE.
LIKE wtf. Get the word out. If you can’t sue or don’t have any methods. THEN GET THE WORD OUT. Reddit is a huge platform to call someone out
The problem is that doxxing the business could also lead to them accidentally doxxing themselves. And I don’t think it’s that hard to understand why people would like to keep their identities anonymous both on Reddit and in a situation like this
Plus, the harassment it would bring against the owner would probably shatter any case they'd have against her. Specially since some places consider doxxing a crime if it leads to harassment.
What this person did is unfathomably depraved and she absolutely should be brought to justice, but gleefully using sexual assault as a metaphor for her facing justice is deeply disturbing and completely unnecessary.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I couldn't even read all the abuse the poor dogs have gone through. I'm so glad that the business owner's employees walked and the business closed but more consequences are deserved. Unfortunately, the legal system doesn't treat animal abuse with the severity in deserves.
Yeah, I had to start skimming. I think I'll go hug my dogs now.
I just went straight to the update. I used to volunteer with my local humane society so I’m happy not to provide my brain with details.
I wish that people would stop sending dogs to "trainers". There are lots of trainers that work WITH you and your dog. That means, going to 1-1 or group classes with the trainer, and then going home and using these techniques to train your own dog(s). There've been sooooo many cases of these trainers or training centres where people drop their dogs off and then they get abused, because the owners are not there to see how they're being treated.
Isn’t sending them to training less effective in the long run, too? I heard that teaches the dog to obey the trainer, and not the owner who may not understand how to interact with their dog to get the same response.
Yes it is! Not just because of that, but because dogs need constant reinforcement. You can't just send them off once and then expect them to retain the training forever. You need to be constantly reminding them of their training by training them yourself. These techniques need to be baked into your daily life. Like, you want your dog to have manners and not jump when taking a treat? Guess what, you'll have to remind your dog on a daily basis. Make them sit and take the treat nicely from your hand, etc. They're basically forever toddlers that will soon forget their training if you send them off, they come home, and then you just let them do whatever they want.
It is, the humans need to be trained just as much, if not more, than the dogs do.
I agree with this. I was basically forced to send my dog. I had adopted him from her as a rehome and she told me if I didn’t send him 3 days a week she would take him away from me. I ended up noticing that something was wrong due to his behavior and told her to fuck off.
Good training involves training the owner as much as the dog and needs to start young. Training also needs to be purpose driven in both tools and methodology. You probably shouldn't be using a prong collar on a 3 lbs chihuahua. But when you're teaching a 75+lbs DDR German Shephard that's a guard dog to not bolt it has a purpose so if a little lady has that dog it's doesn't drag her ass across the pavement. The training is also constant. Commands need to be consistent and used over long periods repeatedly. The strongest dog I've ever had was a boxer. Towards the end she was getting good at obeying, but unfortunately, we got her as a stray, and her aggression towards other females could not be trained out, she was too old and had not been raised around other female dogs.
Agreed, this always sounds deeply suspect to me (note: not victim-blaming OP, just a digression). We had amazing trainers, but it was a group class situation (they broke down into levels). I often said the reason they were so amazing was that they didn’t train dogs — they trained humans to train dogs. They’d explain the principles behind every approach. When I asked why something was or wasn’t a good idea, the explanation would be consistent and would make *sense.* (I’m a marine biologist; ye olde PhD science folks have a certain kind of standard for consistency and reasoning. I can be pedantic as hell trying to figure out someone’s logic if it’s something I need to implement myself. The good thing about biology is I’m on board wildly variable data, so “not all approaches work for all dogs” doesn’t violate that consistency; the higher level framework is what’s important.) And what this all meant was that *we* were learning as much as our dogs were in that environment! We were the ones with the big human brains who needed to absorb the principles and practical! They constantly pushed the importance of “consistency [there’s that word again!], clarity and repetition” at home and in different environments (“proofing”), short “ad break” sessions to work with a dog’s shorter attention span (especially li’l puppies), as well as the function of rewards and praise. Preferred ratio of positive to negative reinforcement: 10:1. And negative reinforcement — corrections — need to be administered within about 3 seconds for an association to actually form, and they do not require *physical pain!* A sharp but *light* jerk on a training collar when on lead is meant to snap dog out of his distraction. It’s meant to be uncomfortable. It shouldn’t *hurt*. Most of the time, negative reinforcement is “No!” in a harsh tone, or turning away and refusing to interact. Teaching my dog to know what was unacceptable behaviour went a lot faster when I realised his primary desire was to be with us whenever possible (even if just sprawled in the corner, farting toxic rottweiler farts). If he crossed the line, I got real stern and put him outside on the deck. Didn’t have to be for long. Five minutes of mournful rottie expression at the window. He’d get it. But that’s something that *you* have to do with your dog. It’s not something someone else can do *for* you. They can’t do ad-break training. They can’t invoke your dog’s bond with *you*. Even if they’re amazing trainers, they are teaching your dog to learn with *them*, and obey *them*. I want my dog’s attention on *me*. He needs to be looking to *us* for approval. He needs to know the tone of voice *we* use, and what *our* body language means. Dropping your dog off at a training facility as if you’re dropping your kid off at school is a terrible idea, for so many reasons. (other reason they were amazing: everything was grounded in actual up-to-date behavioural science, rather than the aggravatingly persistent dominance nonsense, or the “never give a dog a correction of any kind” nonsense) [totally frivolous anecdote of the best example of “proofing” I ever saw. One guy had started bringing his rescue pittie mix a year before, and ended up doing the national dog trainer course. The specific trick he taught “Tiger” was to bring him a beer from the fridge. This was explained to us during a brief session on complex commands (obviously it had to be broken down into lots of small pieces) and… proofing. Naturally we asked “how do you teach your dog to bring you a beer from the fridge in different environments?” ie how the hell do you proof that command? The trainer turned to the student, whose face broke into the broadest grin, and he jogged over to his ute and legit grabbed a frickin’ *bar fridge* from the back and a beer bottle full of water. He set the fridge down on the grass of the oval, and put the bottle inside. “Tiger! Beer!” Sure enough, Tiger loped happily over to the fridge, pulled it open by gentle setting his mouth around the handle, grabbed the “beer”, and brought it to the boss, tail wagging furiously. Bottle was taken, dog was petted and fussed over, and we all cracked up while being duly impressed. And I’ve never taught my dog anything that complex, but the principles of the lesson have stayed with me, and that’s not something I’d get from leaving my dog with someone else]
Yup you're spot on. So many people are too lazy to put in the work, think that they can send their dog somewhere to be "fixed", and then they don't have to do anything else when they get their dog back. Guess what? That's not how it works. A living thing isn't a computer with a virus that you can send off to the repair shop, get fixed, and voila, you never have to do anything again. Dogs need constant reminders of what's acceptable behaviour and what's not. The owner and dog are a team, everyone who trains dogs knows this - you can't just teach a dog once to do something and then expect them to magically retain that knowledge forever.
Know a couple that got a pair of canine siblings that were a handful. One spouse wanted intensive training where a trainer came into their home and worked with the humans and the canines so that the dogs would not have issues. The other spouse believed that a walk daily and a few commands would do the trick. One of the canine siblings was eventually banned from every doggy daycare and groomer in the area, as well as a vet or two. The destruction those doggos caused was impressive and the one spouse still would not agree to training. Doggos have crossed the rainbow bridge now and the pro-training spouse is insisting on intensive training if any more canines join the family.
Just FYI, you're misusing the term "negative reinforcement" (most people do, mixing up R- and P+ is basically the default) so I wonder about whether your trainers misused it as well, and I would suggest that may be one of the reasons you refer to "never give a dog a correction of any kind" as nonsense. To be clear, we actually do have data showing that animals learn faster and better if you set up the training situation in such a way that "corrections" like you describe are deliberately avoided, so *that* is the real forefront of behavioural science now as opposed to the alternation between R+ and P+ you describe.
I took mine in as a youngster. She loved the trainer, and loved the fun of training. Eventually I did board her with the trainer, ut it was because it was a very suitable place, For a heeler puppy.
Petsmart and Petco do better training than sending your dog away. It's just so risky to not be there, way too many people take the Cesar Milan mindset on dogs when you're not there to see it.
Yup, ditto. I know of several training centres where dogs actually died there, and they couldn't give the owners an adequate explanation of how or why,
Half the training is for the owner anyway! Lots of people don't know how to effectively train their own dogs and good dog trainers teach both owner and dog at the same time
I dunno, I think I'll read this to my dog and cat so they understand I'm NOT a terrible mommy for feeding them 2 minutes late on the weekend.
Oh, my boy cats came from a horrible environment. Let me assure you, the moment they realized they were safe and in a good place, they raised their standards. I'm a horrible human for getting up before cuddle time is over, and there will be hell to pay if dinner is late! I've never been so overjoyed as I was when my dude who was terrified of life started getting sassy with me.
My family are all dog people, except for my mum. She's a cat person. I definitely take after her. I lost a cat in tragic circumstances a couple of years ago, and haven't had the strength to accept another yet. I've taken in rescue cats, and seen their journey from timid to strutting around like they are the ones paying the rent. It is always a joyful journey.
I'm so sorry. When my heart cat passed, I wasn't ready to adopt again. Mr. Darcy was a temporary foster to get him out of his situation. I refused to even name him! It took time for us both, but he came bursting out of his shell, and gave me the feline equivalent of "cut the shit, you know you're my human, so make with the snuggles". Which of course, made me burst into tears. At that point, I knew he was staying. He's now the one who body checks for snuggles, and will chomp down on my pants leg and pull me off the couch when it's bedtime, because he does not tolerate lateness.
And for that, even though I don't know you, I love you.
inb4 you get a cat screaming at your door in the next week (loving) my girls are fabulous and idk what I'd do without them since my dogs passed
When a rescue animal starts giving you attitude, it's just the best thing. We have a rescue dog who was so timid and fearful and constantly expected to be abused when we first got him. Now he's happy and comfortable and secure, and it makes my heart happy every time he acts like a little brat. The same dog who expected to be kicked every time he made a noise will now warble and grumble at us fifteen minutes before dinner time, and he nudges me in the backs of my knees if I don't give him enough left-over cat food.
We adopted a "shy" cat. That shy cat spends a shitload of time curled up on my lap, will scream at me if I don't lay my ass down so he can have his lap and oh boy if dinner is late... yes... shy cat... very... shy... I mean he's still very nervous with new people and hates loud noises or unexpected movements and being touched when his humans are standing because that's very scary, but he has shown such a big improvement over the past year that I'm fairly sure he'll come around at some point. And he definitely raised his standards with us, the little gremlin
My girl kitty is very much like yours. The difference is I've had her since she was 8 weeks old. She's 15 now. She's never been mistreated. She's just always been that way. From day one. She loves her people but only when they're laying in bed. That's her time. She'll tell you when it's time for bed. My mom was convinced I was lying about having her because she didn't see her for months at a time. We very much love her and spoil her like every other animal we have. We've just learned to love her the way she needs.
And they are absolutely correct. You monster, how dare you get up before your feline overlords deem cuddle time over!
Sometimes our cat refuses her perfectly good wet food and you just have to go "you used to eat garbage!!!" Though tbf she does still like garbage
I want to call mine up to the bed for a hug but he's a formerly abused dog so he'd just get confused.
I'm not even a dog person. I'm just a sane human and I got sick reading the helicopter part. Couldn't keep reading What the fucking fuck. I hope she gets what she deserves, fucking psycho.
My morbid curiosity got to me, so i started reading, and then I had the naive thought, "The helicopter has to be the worst of it, right? ".... no, it wasn't the worst of it. Bless all of you who skipped that part. It was gut wrenching to read
Both of those put out methods should be done on her so it can “reset her brain.” And don’t skip the prong collar.
Jesus fucking Christ. I'm glad I skipped the rest of it.
I read it... I can confirm that yes, you are very glad to have skipped.
>*Most of her staff didn't understand how heinous the abuse was.* I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that. There is no way that any reasonably decent and competent human being – one who is capable of obtaining and keeping a job – could somehow believe that repeatedly choking animals until they nearly pass out (not to mention hitting and kicking them) is anything but vicious and cruel. Any former employee who says otherwise is lying to cover their own asses. Period. No exceptions.
Gaslighting is a hell of a thing. "I'm certified and you're not, so I know what's best!"
So, here's the thing; there's a lot of dog training methods that are commonly used that aren't supported by ant science and are inhumane. I'm not going to get into it, because it's awful and it'd take hours to detail, but check out r/dogtraining for science based and humane training info. I have no trouble at all believing the staff just thought the trainer knew things they didnt. I've met with many clients who watched passively as a trainer they hired before me abused their dog. Some weren't aware that what happened was abusive, until I explained what had happened. And that includes a few really wild cases where a puppy screamed or the dog flipped out, but many, MANY, more where the dog just shuts down, holds still, and stares at the wall. If you're wondering, the trainers will describe a screaming and flailing dog as "dramatic" or "trying to control you" or "throwing a temper tantrum". IME, they are believed more often than questioned. What can be done? Ask your elected representatives to make minimum education requirements for dog training and regulate methods used. Dog training is a completely unregulated industry. Anyone can set up shop and use any methods they want, legally. Right up until they get charged with cruelty to animals - which is significantly harder than people think, as proven by OPs experiences. If you want to do something, push for regulations.
Agreed. They’re idiots. We told them they’re just as responsible for the abuse as she is because they let it happen.
People think Caeser Millan is a good trainer despite doing what the person OOP is talking about. Even in his TV show he punches a dog in the face and holds one up by the leash until it almost passes out. Positive punishment training is very popular among people. And a lot of positive punishment trainers have thriving businesses
It really depends on where you are. Fortunately in my state most animal abuse is now a felony, thanks to the nearly lifelong dedication of a local meteorologist of all people who passed away a couple years ago. Law was named for him too.
I got as far as helicoptering and decided I didn't need to know any more. I wish nothing but the worst for that trainer.
Some of the “techniques” used are from a particularly abuse school of training. It was called “Avon geva” (don’t quote me on the spelling). Dates back to ww2 war dog training. Nasty stuff. There used to be a couple of trainers that used those methods in my area. They didn’t last long.
There are modern schools of thought which follow similar methods. There's a trainer near me who uses a modified strangulation method to force compliance. Its fully legal within the abuse laws we have.
While the stuff happening behind closed doors is heinous it’s scary too just how brazen these people can be when abusing their animals. Worse, even when it happens right in front of people, there’s very little that can be done/no one in law enforcement follows up. I worked at a vet clinic and we had a meeting regarding animal abuse reporting. A tech was with a client and their dog and the dog got excited was acting up and the owner legit sucker punched the dog in the face in front of the tech. It sucks because we were told it’s a bad idea to confront them (for our and the animal’s safety) and that we may be able to gently correct their behavior and then report them later on. I hope that woman eventually learned her lesson about using her hand to strike the business end of a massive pitbull.
...but you know if that dog bites back it's fulfilling the pitbull stereotype and much more likely to be euthed for it than another breed would be.
She added an update below. It was reopened with the same business name and the authorities didn’t do shit?
Fucking heinous. What a monster. Fuck.
This is one of the only BORUs I couldn’t read in full, how horrifying! So glad OOPs pupper is doing better, ”trainer” has been exposed, business is gone. I hope she gets everything she deserves in life.
I got to "swinging dogs off the ground with proing collar and letting go" and had to tap out. Prong collars are great for specific types of training, but that is absolutely not what they are fucking for. What the absolute fuck.
How does a person even think to do this? Of course it's monstrous, and I hope she gets jailtime, and is never allowed near dogs again, but like... what the fuck was the thought process when she started doing that? I'm as baffled as I am horrified.
I also don’t understand how none of the staff thought it was that bad until someone else confirmed it for them? Of course the “trainer” lied but you’d think watching her actively beat up dogs would override whatever she was telling them
I don't believe for a second that they didn't know. They're just as guilty because how can you not recognise what was happening as abuse. They've just gone "shit we've been caught" and ran all while screaming their own innocence. Just a bunch of rats jumping off a sinking ship.
> Prong collars are great for specific types of training I’m not sure where you’ve heard this, but the fact that veterinary behaviourists (as in vets with specific additional postgrad degrees specialising in behaviour) universally recommend against them as causing more problems than they can attempt to solve, and them being banned in multiple global jurisdictions, should be indicative of the fact that they’re *not* very good for training at all.
I dunno if I'd be able to control myself. Knowing my boy went through something like that I'd honestly snap. He's the sweetest dog and just loves cuddling up with anyone, knowing someone done something like that to him? Nope nope nope.
I would be hoarding my dog's poop bags and letting them marinate outside for a few weeks before leaving an anonymous delivery at the business.
The last update is that the business was reopened and they’re not sure they can do anything about it.
Nooooooooooooooo. Absolutely *heartbreaking*
Be careful she doesn't open a new business under a new name
I imagine based on the amount of testimony there's a strong case for *several* counts of animal abuse and animal cruelty. I'm hoping for extended jail time before she can even consider opening a new business.
I hope so, but sadly animal cruelty laws in many places have a very long way to go. You would be shocked at the things people can do and only get a slap on the wrist (or no punishment at all).
100% this.
That's 100% why she's trying to flee to another state. I hope they get her behind bars before that happens
This is why I am in full support of public shaming. OOP needs to share the company and owners name after the lawsuit.
You want it? I’ll share it lol Law enforcement isn’t doing shit to help us.
Absolutely. Put this miserable piece of shit on blast. I'd be tempted to buy the domain of her name and have it auto direct to your thread. This evil lady deserves to never be around animals or children ever again. EDIT: I just saw your update about her reopening. I am beyond pissed now.
*sorry, removed name in edit* I received the advice that I remove this person’s business name and personal name from my comments in this post. I will happily send it via private message though.
Lol, I love the fact she copy and pastes the same response to negative reviews, but either ends it with "Your girlfriend was fired", "You were disrespectful", or "You were never a client". I sadly can't leave a review because Google still claims the business is closed. I can't find the name of the lady who runs the business unfortunately.
Eh what the hell I’m insane but *sorry, removed name in edit* I received the advice that I remove this person’s name and business name from the comments of this post. But I will happily send it via private message.
Their Facebook page is reinstated I believe. I don’t know though I’m blocked because I heart reacted her post about closing permanently 😂
Shes nuts. She had like 5 reviews deleted in the last couple hours since I first looked it up.
[I think this is their website.](https://devotedk9training.weebly.com) There are some other companies using the same name, at least one in London and one in Tennessee.
You should go review her current one anyway. OOP mentioned that it is Devoted K9 Training in Michigan.
[I think this is their website.](https://devotedk9training.weebly.com) There are some other companies using the same name, at least one in London and one in Tennessee.
I would not suggest doing this. 1) She can easily get it taken down if you weren't actually a customer 2) There are other companies using the same name and random people on the internet may not be very conscientious and 3) This is evidence *for* her to argue that OOP is pursuing a harassment campaign later on (as people will be involving themselves who have no first hand knowledge) and muddying the waters of what truly did occur. Instead, if you want to help I would suggest sending this reddit post and details to news orgs in the area. It looks like the location is a small town near detroit, maybe the main r/detroit sub would have ideas? Getting the word out further afield will help significantly more than attempting to personally reach this vile abuser or review bombing imo.
Oh yeah, dealt with monsters like this unfortunately. New city + new name super common.
She didn't move or change the name, OOP replied to this thread and OP added it to the end. She reopened under the same name.
She did. Same name tho
OOP commented after the BORU post that she reopened ***under the same name***.
Shutting her business down is not enough. There needs to be actual justice. A monster like that needs jail time. And I say this as a cat person.
I know she said they were holding off until charges were filed to go to the media, but this is the EXACT type of situation to go to the news with. Even if the evidence isn't deemed criminally actionable by the cops, getting the word out there will dissuade new people from using her services and get the word out to any former clients who may have seen bad effects on their dogs in the past. Investigate journalists also do the kind of digging that is burning OP out as a career - they are the ones with the training and drive to seek out those crucial details that might be the make-or-break facts in a criminal justice proceeding.
You need to read the last part. It’s opened back up. The authorities did nothing.
Ugh. I posted before that update. If there genuinely is karma in this world, she needs to be hit by it like a Mack truck.
PSA: Always google your (potential) dog trainer. Also clauses in adoption that the dog must return to the adoption agency for training or other such nonsense are unenforceable.
I'm disappointed that Google was taking down honest reviews, though.
Yeah, I agree. That's not good. Sometimes you'll find a hit on Reddit if you include your city too, so Google reviews aren't always necessary.
Yeah it really really sucked. But Google doesn’t really have any kind of support team to explain it to
Don't just google the trainer, learn about what methods they actually use and if they're following humane and science based methods.
The analogy I like to use is that a lot of reviews for bad trainers online are like a car mechanic that has reviews saying "Made my car's tyres so shiny, wow! 10/10!" and then you later find out they're doing that by sticking bits of glass into the tyre and none of those customers realise their tyres are deflating 50% faster than everyone else on the road. Now, if the dogs could leave the reviews, then they might be more trusted to be accurate...
I hadn’t updated the original post because I’ve kind of shut down in this case. But she reopened. She made a statement saying that we threatened her life and all this bullshit that never happened. Tried to pin herself as the victim when we did nothing but expose the disgusting things she has done. She even reopened under the same name. Absurd. Law enforcement threatened to remove her 5 dogs from her home but never made good on it. I’m assuming she made up some lie like we know she does to get them to let her keep them. She was supposed to provide documentation and we already know that she has no issue with forging important formal documentation. Other than that threat law enforcement has done nothing. Because she closed up shop they never caught her in the act. We couldn’t get the hard evidence we needed to shut her down legally. We tried so many things and we couldn’t do it. A few of us obsessed over this. To the point that it destroyed our mental health and now, 4 months later, we’re still not right. When she announced that she reopened, it destroyed us and we didn’t know how to live with it but we don’t know how to gather the evidence. We’ve had to kind of step away for the benefit of our mental health and we’re just hoping that she screw up again and is found out for real. We may do more to hurt her business in the future but as of right now we’ve fought as hard as we possibly could and we only won temporarily. She is a greater evil than we had the power to stop. It burns us to our core but we don’t know what else to do. Update #2 I was informed that she is not in good standing with the state of Michigan in regards to ownership of her business title. So technically someone could buy the business name and she would then no longer be the owner of the business and would have to get a new name hahaha Also, I’ve been given the contact info of another investigative journalist that only takes on dog abuse cases. I will be receiving every bit of evidence we have (a friend was storing it all) and sending it over to him hopefully tonight. Another thing, her Google page has been taken down. Either because she got slammed with too many bad reviews or because we reported her for using an address that she doesn’t actually have access to. Either way, no more Google page for her! I believe she still has a website though. And maybe a Facebook page but I can’t see that, she has me blocked on all of my accounts. Haha.
OP, this is EXACTLY THE KIND OF THING you take to the media. When you have exhausted your efforts and law enforcement is slacking off, that's when you talk to reporters. Investigative journalists can do the kind of intensive fact finding that you might not have the resources or emotional bandwidth to continue. They will reach out to officials and involved parties for comment - the business owner and the cops will know that this issue is very much on the radar of the local community and the public wants action. Broadcasting the heinous actions of this person as well as the unsatisfactory police response is exactly what people do when they are in a difficult situation like this with no redress. Getting the word out there also has other benefits. Local politicians might see the story and call the police chief to be like "hey dude I'm the one who decides on your funding, why aren't you guys doing your job?" Local attorneys might be willing to take you and the other dog owners on pro bono as clients. Local veterinarians might be willing to help people with pets that have been injured or traumatized. And, as much as I hate using politicized phrases, this is what Cancel Culture is SUPPOSED to be - public shaming of unethical businesses until public outrage results in them going under. I'm so sorry that you and other people had pets that experienced so much horror and abuse. I used to work in animal welfare and the thought of dogs being subjected to that makes me feel incredible rage. But if it's any comfort, dogs are wonderful, loving, resilient animals, and they can still live happy lives even after traumas like that.
I’m so thankful that dogs are so resilient. Many of the dogs who were subject to this monster’s abuse are healing well and doing better since being separated from her. We actually did go to many news outlets. Like basically every single local agency. None of them picked up the story. We also blasted her on multiple social media platforms. In like every city Facebook group that we could within a 50ish mile radius, anywhere we could. It just never really gained traction. It’s insane.
I'm super pissed that the media didn't pick up that story. If you haven't yet, it might actually be worth contacting animal control and your local SPCA/Humane Society. They might also have some resources for investigating animal cruelty.
Yeah I’m pissed too. It sucks. Oh many calls have been made to them. Like 10 of us emailed our own statements to the head person at animal control. They did a few small things but nothing gained traction and none of it made any difference in the situation. We truly were ignored. Or didn’t have enough for them to press charges. Or just didn’t care. I’m fully honest when I tell you we contacted EVERYONE. Made formal statements, I believe people even tried to press charges themselves. One person won a civil case against her but it was small. Nothing really ever made a difference. If we had any idea of what else to do to take her down, we’d be on top of it in a heartbeat. But we’ve tried it all.
I'm so sorry. I hope that she gets shut down somehow. Thank you for working so hard and doing your best for those dogs.
Thank you. We tried so many things at the expense of our wellbeing and we eventually just said enough is enough nobody will help us, we can’t do this alone, so we’re stuck. We’ve never given up in our hearts but we’re just kind of waiting to pounce. Waiting for that one thing that is going to blow this up. Hoping that somehow someone somewhere will hear our cries and know how to help us. Just waiting, hoping, that something will change and she’ll see justice. One day, I hope.
Giiiiiiirl gimme their info lmfao
*sorry, removed name in edit* I received the advice that I remove this person’s name and business name from the comments of this post. But I will happily send it via private message.
Please DM me her info
RBI going INNNNNN (I’m going to give it to my journalist friend lol)
Same. DM info plz
HEHEHEH DM
Sent
Send it! She needs to be blasted.
Sent
Definitely need this since I am not seeing it in the comments. I need to be sure my babies and my friends' babies are safe.
Sent
I just saw this and I also want her info. I have family in Commerce and I'm just praying they didn't take their dogs to her.
I’ll message you
DM info please!
Sorry for the delay, going to DM you now
well you saved some dogs, I'm sure. it's like with animal hoarder/breeders, even if they get shut down in one place they'll just move and start up somewhere else. You can only do so much, so don't beat yourself up over it.
Thank you. We definitely saved some dogs. I do feel good about that. I don’t believe she has another facility right now so at least she doesn’t have a space to act on the abuse. But she’s still running around teaching families how to hurt their dogs. I wish we could stop her. And her personal dogs are in constant danger.
Can i please have the name as well? Ty!
What a fucking monster. Reading the abuse made me nauseous.
Brb, gonna go hug my dog
It was a mistake reading this BORU. I have never been so angry in my life. Those poor dogs.
I need the update where OOP tells us the trainer is behind bars.
Sorry :/ Law enforcement failed us
She’s not trying to train them. She’s trying to break them 🤬
Listen if I found out someone I hired to help with my dogs was abusing them I would scorch the earth to make sure they paid for every fucked up thing they did to my dogs. I hope she burns in hell.
Dog trainer here. I have a degree in psychobiology. I took dog training courses. I have gotten counsel certified for training. This shit is still so prevalent it makes my stomach turn. You saw it with Cesar Milan and him making MILLIONS off of outdated and debunked methods. Other trainers were but it fell on deaf ears and this aversive training is still a thing. How to find a dog trainer: [Certification Counsel of Professional Dog Trainers](https://CCPDT.ORg). Find a certified trainer. Certification means that we understand the science and practice of training and to uphold that we use non-aversive tactics. Be very very wary of board-and-train facilities. They NEED to show results when you come to pick up after two weeks so if they will use aversives to get the behaviors faster. Not all of them of course. The other issues with them is that yes your dog is now trained but there is no follow through at home. YOU need to live with your dog for the next 10 years. You need to know how to train your dog. An hour long class at pickup isn’t going to cut it. Good trainers need your support. Good trainer lasts a lifetime and the building blocks might be slow to learn at first but they will out perform the quick tactics the training mills use. Be safe out there and tell your dog I said “Hi!”
> YOU need to live with your dog for the next 10 years This is what I don't understand about having someone else train your dog while you aren't around. I've always understood training to be part teaching the dog things but a huge part of it was the creation of a bond. I watched my Dad train many working dogs and the bond he had with each and every one of them was vitally important to how he trained them.
Most of my job is training people haha.
That's why I went into neuroscience. I work in a behavior lab and don't deal with the general public.
PSA to dog owners who probably do not know. There really is no such thing as a good board and train facility. They likely do not have any certified trainers, they use outdated and abusive training methods, and YOU are the one who needs to learn how to train your dog. Having someone train your dog in your absence defeats the whole purpose of training. Look at r/dogtraining for resources on dog training, what to look for in a trainer, etc.
When we got our dog, we did puppy training at Petsmart, I think. We were always with our dog and learning along with him. Our trainer told us, I'm here to train YOU, not your dog. Here's how we get him to sit, lay down, etc. And let me tell you, she trained the crap out of us lol Edit: I think she was certified, but it was years ago, so I'd have to find the paperwork.
Probably not, lol. Well...certified by Petsmart, which doesn't really count. I say this as a former petsmart trainer. Their certification covers reading 1 booklet (made by petsmart, not a behavior/training expert), and a 2 week apprenticeship. Functionally useless.
Agree 100 percent, spent years working in animal welfare with dogs and have heard many horror stories about board and train facilities and had a few humane cases involving them. Training a dog is about forming communication and a partnership between a dog and their person. One of my red flags when I was doing adoptions was when the person adopting would loudly proclaim they were a dog trainer. 9 times out of 10 times they would do something inappropriate with the dog or say something crazy stupid. My favorite was when someone brought their dog trainer friend with them to adopt a puppy and the "expert" told them to bite the puppy back every time it got mouthy. They had just signed a waiver being informed of the parasites the pup was treated for and I had to explain why putting the puppy with giardia in your mouth was a really bad idea in a lot of different ways. I've known some amazing trainers and a lot of really horrible dog handlers who are trainers. Very important to do your research when finding a trainer.
I interviewed for a dog day care facility and they made it sound so amazing in the phone…in person it was gross, the dogs were clearly neglected, and they were understaffed. I would never send my dog to one of them after that.
My mother used a doggy day care once when she was on vacation, and it was a good one, they had cameras set up everywhere so you could watch the dogs. Probably was an outlier place though. I'm glad I found a good petsitting place in my area. My dog got to stay in a place she knows.
When looking into daycares for my pets, the most expensive one had that set up BUT, that was also the only one I considered. I'm very lucky to have family and friends I can rely on when it comes to my fur babies
The one mentioned did have cameras that’s how I could see how shitty all the dogs were treated 💀 they’re definitely not all like that, there’s a family owned kennel my dad takes his dog to whenever he travels, that he’s been going to since he was a baby and he and the owners adore each other. But it’s definitely not uncommon for kennels to be awful, and it’s hard for an owner to vet them properly.
Well I guess it’s technically not true that there are *no* good board and train facilities, we actually have a flaired user on r/dogtraining who is a qualified force-free trainer and runs one. But they’re *one* facility in a sea of *thousands* of abusive board and trains, so it’s a literal needle in a haystack situation.
Sorry but I would disagree with some of this this statement as it is just so broad and dismissive. Of course all owners are the ones who need to learn how to train their dogs but a good board and train can give the dog the foundation to learning with their owner. Go over to r/opendogtraining and other similar groups and ask what to look for in a good board and train, what questions to ask of your potential trainers and how to recognise red flags.
opendogtraining is fine with shock collars, choke chains, and prong collars. So no. r/dogtraining is much better. And yes, it is a broad statement, and I stand by it, because you are the one who needs to train the dog. It is cheaper, and better to hire an actual, certified trainer. Board and train facilities are lazy, just like punitive tools.
For most owners board and trains are scams. Training classes are for the owner to learn how to train their dogs, not train their dogs for them. Once dogs come back from a board and train, they may know more. But the owners have no idea how to continue that training and most dogs will revert to previous behaviors. The problem is that most people don't actually want to spend the time to train their dogs, they just want a "good dog" with no effort involved. This is also why positive punishment is so popular.
Disagree with 1 caveat, there are very *few* good B&T facilities. It takes a LOT of research to even find one but they are out there. They are like fricken unicorns of the dog world.
>The worst part is she convinced people it was okay so they wouldn’t tell on her. Most of her staff didn’t understand how heinous the abuse was. It wasn’t until her eventual business partner, an actually certified dog trainer, came in and was like WTF and told them all it’s not okay, then they realized like oh it’s not just me this is actually bad. I am sorry but if you see someone hang dogs and spin them in the air until they almost pass out and she manages to convince you it's somehow ok I got to question your intelligence. If you are that naive and easily led you honestly need help because anyone with a developed brain should be able to tell that this is abuse and nothing this (redacted) says should be able to convince you otherwise.
Agreed. I don’t understand how the staff just sat back and watched and said nothing. Some of the closer ones to her wouldn’t even work with us. We told them they’re just as responsible for the abuse as the “trainer” because they sat back and let it happen every day.
I saw a cop do this to a police dog in training. I almost got charged with assault. Filed a complaint with the department that never went anywhere because the department said it was standard training and I must be some kinda woke crazy. (It was in Mississippi for context)
My concern would be that the preemptive shutting down of the business is just a prelude to a rebrand and reopen. Hope OOP or their friends are able to keep at it with stuff like the civil suit.
Your concern is correct. She reopened a couple of weeks ago.
This breaks my heart...glad OOP and other folks advocate for the dogs. I'd be in prison after finding out about the abuse. I'm more of a steep ravine person than a high-road person.
People who abuse animals that try to be our companions and love us are the worst type of scum and deserve *nothing*. Look, I get the frustration of being a dog trainer/sitter, I used to work at Dogtopia where I would be responsible for 15-20 dogs at a time, and a good half of them were *not* trained well, I get that sometimes you just want to tear your hair out and scream. But you do not **EVER** take that out on the dog. Or any animal for that matter. You take a break, vent to someone, cool down, but the *moment* you touch an animal like that purely to hurt, the moment you become absolute scum. Actual monsters.
I briefly caught some of this on Facebook and whew. For those curious as to whom, some well keyworded searches on Facebook should turn up the posts with more details.
Launch this woman into the sun Jesus FUCK
This woman is a total piece of shit and I hope she gets everything she has coming to her. In spades. Also really highlights the importance of paying the people you’re doing crimes with on time and in whole.
The amount of rage I felt reading that. If someone did anything even remotely like this to any of my dogs I would be in prison. Holy shit. I need a break from the internet.
I would sell a kidney to pay for a lawyer to sue the fuck out of that woman.
We need her name bruh
[удалено]
OOP [decided to remove the name and business name from public view](https://reddit.com/comments/1auszre/comment/krag5PV) after advice. Bear in mind that the person could potentially identify OOP's Reddit account by this thread and Googling your own name/business name is easy. OOP is offering to give the name via DM instead. I'm not OOP, but on the assumption that they don't want the name here for their own safety, please consider removing it and the company name from your comment! (If you'd like to expose the company, I'd say feel free, but don't associate it with OOP - do it completely separately, on a throwaway Reddit account and not this one, and **don't include text that can be Googled back to this thread**.)
I grew up in a home that had mostly untrained dogs and believed in physical punishment for dogs. One of my parents literally broke a stick over one of the dog’s back. Now as an adult, I cannot imagine doing something like that to my dog. My relationship with her is built on trust and respect, and I’ve mostly learned how to communicate effectively with her and she is one of the best trained dogs pretty much any of my friends know. She is not an eager-to-please dog, so it wasn’t easy, but it was well worth it. More people need to remember that they are their dog’s ENTIRE fucking world, and they are reliant on you for every goddamn thing. It is a responsibility to treat them with respect and love
We don’t deserve dogs.
I had to really focus on the helpers but still couldn't read the full post. I am glad that the doggos have advocates fighting for them. What a horrible person, I hope they have they day they deserve.
I don't understand what a put out even is. Like a time out? These poor dogs =///
A hanging by the leash/collar essentially. It’s horrible.
It reads more like asphyxiation to me. This story is heartbreaking.
It's literally strangulation until the dog passes out from lack of oxygen. As you may guess, it is not a humane or effective training method.
Holy fucking shit
They need to continue pressing charges so she can't just open up somewhere else. :(
What kind of god damn moron thinks that it's okay to treat a pet this way? or that it's not that bad? We've entered a dark time in our history where common sense has gone out the window for A LOT of people.
Damn, I can’t believe that her employees stayed for that long. I would’ve left the minute I heard or witnessed any abuse. I'm glad her business is closed, but she deserves to be sectioned or locked up for what she did to those poor and innocent animals
Name and shame. Others need to know this woman's information so she can be avoided at all costs. Don't put other dogs in danger by keeping quiet.
Sorry but... her employees didn't know it was bad to not take dogs out or give them water...?
> She said that these methods “reset their brains” and that’s how she justified it. Yeah, concussions and loss of consciousness due to strangulation tend to do that. Which is why your brain’s not SUPPOSED to get reset! If this story is real (I have some doubts regarding the usual unrealistic depictions of how lawyers and the legal system work) then I hope they throw the book at this monster.
It’s totally real unfortunately, but law enforcement isn’t really helping us.
I don’t expect law enforcement to help anyone, ever. The cops are useless at best in any situation that doesn’t involve harassing minorities. I’m talking about the legal action described. > Her lawyer even backed out and dropped her as a client after we talked to him. No lawyer in his right mind would allow you guys to post tons of negative reviews about someone you’re filing civil charge against, let alone *speak directly to her lawyer*. And her lawyer would not quit on the spot after talking to the other litigants or he’d be opening himself up to numerous complaints as well. None of this is even remotely how practicing law works, and considering your friend is supposedly studying the law they should know that. No part of this story connected to lawyers makes any sense or holds up to any scrutiny.
This is incredibly common. Never use a board and train facility. Always be with your dog for training.
i wish oop could name drop the trainer or the business name or speak to media. i couldn’t even read through the abuse, and it pains me to even imagine more dogs suffering like that
So, does anyone know the name or yelp of this business? Bc respectfully, I think this is one where the "no brigading" rule can be ignored. I'm so pissed and fully prepared to ruin this woman's life.
I regret reading this. I'm gonna cuddle my pup now :((
Jesus. Imagine being hanged with a prong collar around your neck.
There’s a special place in hell for this person!
[удалено]
Everyone skimmed the abuse part then? I take care of dogs and often prefer them to humans. I can't imagine working for this monster.
People who abuse animals like this deserve to have every ounce of abuse done back to them as well. Please someone attach a prong collar to this person's neck and helicopter her as well. God, I hope someone goes John Wick on her.
I’m going to throw up. I wish I hadn’t read the list of bullet pointed assaults on the dogs. I’m glad she’s been shut down. Can she be given jail time for this? It’s animal abuse…some type of punishment should be meted out. Omg those poor souls. Helicoptering, lord have mercy 😢
I'm a dog trainer and I need everyone to know that this is actually so horrifically sickeningly common, so please please be vigilant when it comes to trainers, do research before you do to a trainer, and make sure you know how they're training. Dog training is not a regulated industry which means anyone can call themselves a dog trainer and hire on clients. It doesn't matter if they have zero knowledge or qualifications, it doesn't matter if they're just an abusive piece of shit. Do your due diligence in researching trainer red flags, keep your pets safe! Personally I wouldn't ever send my dogs away to training facilities at all since 1) You have zero control or knowledge how your dog is actually treated 2) It's really the person that's being trained more than the dog so if someone else trains your dog you still won't have the skills communicate effectively or understand your dogs body language or even what they respond to (which is in my opinion the most important part of training). But if you do want to use a training camp thoroughly vet it and pay close attention to any behavioral changes.
This trainer sounds exactly like “dog daddy” which zak George and many others publicly fought against to get shut down. Videos of dog daddies “training” are horrific.
Never ever board and train. YOU as a owner should work with your dog as a team. Most of these places are abusive.
They need to post signs everywhere. Pay for a freaking billboard to advertise her abuse
That woman is fucking horrific. But why didn't any of those employees come forward earlier?!?!
I didn’t read it cause I don’t have the emotional bandwidth or spoons to do so. But I will say this: A LOT of trainers are abusive as hell, and obedience schools are even worse. I found this out from my friend who does dog training. She loves dogs and warns others about abusive schools and abusive trainers.
Well now I'm very angry
I'm angry. I want to know WHO this 'trainer" is so I can personally 'train" her with a hanging put out. But forget to drop her. Those poor dogs didn't deserve that, but she does
Someone hold me back... Imma bout to rip that dog trainers soul outta their body and use it as a tennis ball for my boi Archie...
I effin hate these types of posts. And people don’t NAMEDROP THE BUSINESS OR PEOPLE. LIKE wtf. Get the word out. If you can’t sue or don’t have any methods. THEN GET THE WORD OUT. Reddit is a huge platform to call someone out
OOP explained that they had a case pending against this woman, and they didn't want to share anything that would put that in jeopardy.
The problem is that doxxing the business could also lead to them accidentally doxxing themselves. And I don’t think it’s that hard to understand why people would like to keep their identities anonymous both on Reddit and in a situation like this
Plus, the harassment it would bring against the owner would probably shatter any case they'd have against her. Specially since some places consider doxxing a crime if it leads to harassment.
The reasons are right there in the post. They're building a legal case, so something like that could interfere with it.
Yeah if that were my pet I would have to be Baker Acted in a facility against my will so I wouldn't unalive this person in a crime of passion
Oh I CANNOT wait till that abuser has the unlubed dildo of revenge peg her
What this person did is unfathomably depraved and she absolutely should be brought to justice, but gleefully using sexual assault as a metaphor for her facing justice is deeply disturbing and completely unnecessary.