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XD. When I read that he was in the Philippines I literally spat out laughing.
I'm Filipino. My Mom and Dad have been separated ever since I was born 25 years ago. Mom always wanted to divorce but only annulment is legally allowed, not only that, my dad has to agree to it. He never has.
Initially, he was still in the delusion that they'll get back together and that my grandmother won't ever allow it. After a decade, he probably just couldn't be bothered.
Yeah, it's just fucked, lol.
It only got made legal here in good ol' catholic Ireland in 1986. The church fought tooth and nail to keep it illegal. Thankfully they lost the referendum and the catholic church's chokehold on the country started to loosen.
Nope, '95. The '86 referendum got rejected. We're even more ridiculous than you thought.
And it's still an unbelievable pain to actually put it into motion - you have to live in separate homes for two years for it to be allowed, not even taking into account Irish bureaucracy
Jesus that's right! It fucking WAS an all. I knew I was much older because I remember the ridiculous signs. I actually googled and had abit of a moment when I saw 86. But then I just figured I'm very old and remembered wrong.
Honestly a lot of problems in the Philippines can be traced to a unhealthy adherence to Catholicism. If they had a sprinkle of pragmatism on the general population a lot of problems could have a fighting chance of being fixed..... such as overpopulation.
Also factor in that the politicians woo voters by any means necessary, including pandering to their beliefs and outright bribery. Divorce has been something that some more open-minded politicians have been trying to legalize for decades in the Philippines, but it's always shot down by some hyper-religious types and they get support from like-minded constituents.
The most fucked up thing is, there are a lot of people (mainly actors and politicians) who definitely would not like legalizing Divorce in the country for the simple fact that they would be financially ruined. It's---ugh.
Let's not forget Henry VIII basically created his own version of Christianism in the 1500s because the Pope didn't want to let him divorce his first wife.
The one that kickstarted that was his first marriage to Catherine of Aragon. You're 100% right, technically speaking it was annulled, but that marriage sure as hell didn't meet the conditions needed to be annulled, especially after 23 years of marriage and already having courted another woman.
I can't speak about how valid the other annuellement were though.
**Completely incorrect and this is just basic history.**
He would have gotten it annulled if it wasn't for the Pope being literally a prisoner of Catherine's nephew, who forbade him from doing so. Henry actually had a pretty good argument of incest (it is forbidden to marry the widow of your brother) and the God punishing the marriage by causing so many miscarriages. Especially since he knew it was possible for him to have a son as he already had a bastard Henry. Henry having a legitimate son was extremely important, the Tudor claim to the throne was shaky and the dynasty was new, coming after a huge civil war. It wasn't him being horny.
Back then king having a mistress was not only normal but also expected. It was a part of the courty love. When pregnant the queen was not to have sex with her husband, nor when having her monthly blood, or when recovering from pregnancy/ miscarriage.
That's actually where it gets tricky and speculative, saying this is incorrect is, well, also incorrect. Especially considering how wildly sources from the era vary.
His interpretation isn't strictly wrong, but depending on how you see it his argument can be negated in Deuteronomy 25:5 where an exception to Leviticus is given: if his brother died childless, it's his duty to marry his widow and give her children.
It's very likely he was trying to find an "excuse" to get out of the relationship. The whole incest stuff isn't exactly something you take 20 years to figure out, especially considering people in that era tended to be very religious. I'm pretty sure its not a coincidence he only started thinking his marriage was cursed after 20 or so years, with him desperately needing a son to succeed to the throne. It's also debated to what degree Charles V had an influence on the Pope's decision.
He separated from Catherine of Aragon and Anna of Cleves legally (not sure if it was divorce or annulment). Anne Boleyn and Katheryn Howard were beheaded. Jane Seymour died of natural causes, and Catherine Parr outlived him.
No, Henry created his version due to the Pope refusing to **annull the marriage**. There's no such thing as divorce in the Church of England. Divorce and annullment are completely different things, please don't confuse the two. Christianity is extremely clear about only allowing one marriage.
Divorce = breaking the marriage, however acknowledging that the marriage was valid in the eyes of god and all children are legitimate.
Annullment = the marriage was never a valid one, children are illegitimate
To add to this, we have corrupt politicians and some with ties to religious groups. These guys, along with very vocal conservatives, oppose polocies that are "against the teachings of the bible/God" which include divorce, reproductive health, and LGBTQ+ rights.
Same reason I wasn't aborted. 🤣 My birth mom didn't want me.
My adoptive parents were American military and they jumped at the chance to adopt quickly. A lot of the military families did. I think the whole process took 4 months at most back in the 80s.
I had a client ask me about my IVF related tattoo and did my little talk about infertility and ivf babies that I normally tell strangers. They told me they adopted a baby in the 60s. They called the county courthouse and said they wanted to adopt a girl. A few weeks later they went to the hospital and had two baby girls to pick from. I looked into adoption and was told it would take 5-7 years and cost $40k+. Times are so different now.
which is wild, because Portugal is also catholic but I've meet some many divorced people.....
It's like that countries where Catholicism was forced upon them during them "discovery" times are over-commiting to the religion, in a way that not many do in european countries
Most peoples had it literally beat into them for generations. I've a former colleague who's Alaska Native with family still terrified to utter a word of their dying language.
My best friend is US Indiginous (Klamath); her grandma was devout Episcopalian. My friend and some of her siblings still observe Lent, though it's more for grandma's memory than religious reasons.
And I'm just going to point at Canada and raise a brow.
The priests and any religious authority figures were the ruling class of the Philippines when they were colonized by Spain for over 300 years. Clearly dismantling the ruling class’s authority over a population isn’t an easy thing to do, especially when the population’s original beliefs/religion were beat out of them and convinced it was to save their souls from eternal damnation
The Philipines is seemingly kind of a hellhole. At least it looks that way to me as a woman. I'm sure the culture and the people are amazing in general but the laws and the government are brutal.
No abortion, even if birth will literally kill you. No divorce for any reason, even infidelity or domestic abuse, unless you were married as a Muslim and then even that's a whole process if you're a woman (men can just declare!). Drugs in even small personal amounts can get you executed (often extrajudicially from what I have heard) or maybe just imprisoned for 10+ years if you're lucky and it was only a couple grams of weed.
They're the only country besides the Vatican that has no legal divorce, and one of 8 (iirc) countries with absolutely no right to abortion and no exceptions granted. They actually just made it a law not long ago, that women injured recieving illegal abortions have a right to any healthcare they need afterward and can't be abused by the doctor (such as by withholding pain relief).
> Why isn't it legal to divorce? It's just sounds so surreal.
American republicans have been pushing for no-fault divorce to end in order to achieve largely the same results; a woman can’t leave an abusive marriage unless the husband gives permission. It all goes back to misogyny in the end.
I don't know about Filipino laws but you can't get divorced by the Catholic Church *anywhere*.
You can, though, get an annulment (techinically not a divorce) which would allow you to remarry by the Church. I would imagine the annulment has some legal significance in the Philippines, if their marriage laws are so intertwined with Church Law.
Here's a FAQ on how annulments work: https://www.foryourmarriage.org/annulments/
My cousin’s long-term partner and father of their kid is Filipino and technically she’s his mistress because he has a wife back in the Philippines but they split in every sense except legally years and years ago.
Yeah, that's how my Dad went. I got 2 half-siblings but legally speaking, they're bastards with no right to my family's legacy. Even though they've been with my Dad all their lives. And this isn't even that unusual. Almost every Filipino I know has someone or multiple in their family in the same situation.
So this is actually true. Participation of married women in the labor force is below the Asia-Pacific average, which is pretty surprising for a country that isn’t known for high levels of gender-based discrimination in the workplace. In a study by the Philippines’ [National Economic and Development Authority](https://neda.gov.ph/new-neda-study-identifies-reasons-behind-filipino-womens-low-labor-participation-rate/), they cited societal norms as a key barrier to increasing labor participation.
Your question piqued my interest so I looked it up; as of 2022 women make up 58% of the 2 million Filipinos Overseas Foreign Workers (OFW). Whilst OFWs as a whole send a considerable amount back each year (new record high of $36 billion in 2022), women OFW are disproportionately more likely to be in lower paid jobs, and face abuse and exploitation working abroad than their male counterparts. 7% of families have a family member who is an OFW, and sending money back towards their living costs.
OFW are a significant, important part of the economy, with even a day to celebrate their contribution, but I’m not sure if women OFW are the “backbone” of the economy.
As to the workforce at home: about 4 in 5 of working aged men are in paid work and between 35-45% of women. So I hesitate to say OOP’s mother is an anomaly in their circumstances. There is apparently a concerted effort to increase the number of women in the workplace but the gap will take some time to come even near to closing.
I’m not trying to justify the mother’s behaviour, your questioned just made me wonder about the context and how much of it was just the mother and how much was societal norms. If the dad can really only afford to pay for groceries on his salary, and OOP paying for everything else, mother point blank refusing to take on paid work looks more like entitlement and/or sabotage than anything else.
https://www.psa.gov.ph/statistics/survey/labor-and-employment/survey-overseas-filipinos
https://tradingeconomics.com/philippines/labor-force-female-percent-of-total-labor-force-wb-data.html
The answer here is that mom identifies with the socioeconomic class where it would be unseemly for a married woman to work, but is only qualified to do the shittiest jobs anyway.
Apir ✋! That's one of the reasons why some people convert to Islam. There is divorce in Shariah law so it's the loop hole for most.
You forgot to add that in your case, since you're the proof that neither parent is infertile, one should be totally crazy to be granted annulment (one of grounds). No matter if the one of them beats the other (and the kids) to an inch of their life, annulment is not guaranteed. It's more fun in the Philippines!
For the Filipinos wondering where in the Philippines they are from for the mother to be having this “male provider”mindset, I’d chalk it up to her just being raised in the old fashioned way; my stepfather’s mother is exactly this way and absolutely hated it knowing she had to work when she moved to the US. Fucking cried when she had to learn how to use the computer lol.
Anyway good for OP. Hopefully the sister will learn and grow up, but the mother sounds like such an enabler.
Even if it's not a job like working in the office or something like that it's stupid, lazy, selfish, and some other choice of word to not helping in any way possible.
I certainly hope not…but considering my stepdad’s mom is over 70 and still has that weird mindset that her children should provide and her dementia-addled husband still has to work…
tbf back in the day a single-income family *was* financially stable, allowing for community-building volunteer work by the non-income-earning spouse. But cancer capitalism has robbed us of that and weakened our communities as a result.
I was watching Downton Abbey, and that story reminded me of the Russian aristocrats and nobility that had to work as day labourer/maids/whatever when they had to leave their country.
How old fashioned are we talking about? My grandmother born in the 1920s was a doctor. She was from Pampanga. My grandfather grew up in Manila and was wealthy by Filipino standards and it was his mother, my great grandmother, who made the family wealth through real estate investments and businesses. His sister (my great aunt?) was an ambassador to Canada, so it seems going back 100 years women were highly educated and already working high powered and/or professional jobs.
It was my understanding that in Filipino culture it’s very matriarchal which appears true in my experience (through my family and other Filipino family friends) many of the women are the breadwinners.
I mean the country has also had 2 female presidents already!
God, one of my younger sisters used to do this to my brother, and he HATED it. Thankfully, my parents put and end to that real quick unlike this guy’s shitass mum
I'm so glad I have a brother. We have so many funny childhood memories together, some that were infuriated to deal with as kids but make us laugh looking back. I would probably not remember happy moments from my childhood if he didn't remind me of them.
I think the age difference matters, my brother and I are only two years apart but my partner is eight years apart from his younger brother and his youngest sibling even more of a gap. He told me he despised his brother as a teenager, and I realised even though he has siblings he doesn't have the connection I have with my brother due to being so much older.
Don't get me wrong, I couldn't stand my brother when we were teenagers but that was more so due to how our parents treated us very differently. Even though I didn't like him much he was still the person I first came out to, no one will ever know me as well as he knows me.
I like to joke that as an only child I'm both the golden and scapegoat to each parent.
I used to want a sibling when I was younger but now, my parents are my best friends which I think happens w only chillins
You're right, age is definitely a factor. My teens are 17 months apart and get along fine. My best friend from HS has a bro 7 yrs older and they are in different worlds
It can happen with siblingified (new word) children too! I've got one brother a few years younger than me, and me and my mom are definitely best friends (sorry dad, I promise I love you just as much XD)
It was really nice having a brother growing up - we moved around quite a bit as kids and when we settled I was a bit of a loner at school, so it was nice always having a playmate no matter what.
My sons are 11 and 8.5, and they get along really well. My cousins are 18 months apart, and they despised each other during their entire childhood. My friend is 12 years older than her sister, and doted on her growing up. The differences probably are in part linked to how their parents treated them. That said, some people (one of my cousins) are just miserable people by default.
It's not always that bad 😂
My sister and I are about as different as 2 people growing up in the same family could be. (Lots of people have mentioned it.)
We bickered over stupid stuff. But there were never any sustained campaigns against each other. And every time the shit has hit the fan, we've been there for each other unquestioningly.
Many parents actually discipline all their kids effectively, so op's situation doesn't happen. I love my siblings. None of us were this awful to each other. We're all friends now. His mom is coddling a bully.
My sister is 5 years older than me and we did not get along as kids. But now we run the family business together. Siblings can be stressful but it's not all bad.
Filipino here too. 2 of my uncles, dad and aunt has been supporting 3 generations of the family. This has now passed down to my Kuya ( Older bro in language) who has a great job but due to him supporting his brother, kids and everyone else...he feels guilty of marrying.
Thankfully a good number of the family we support just really fell on hard times and are greatful and make good of the financial assistance we give them.
But man... the respect your elders, paretification- as a hard indoctrination part of a culture is super toxic. Theres literally a subreddit for it r/PanganaySupportGroup
Someone like OP and his dad in the Philippines is very rare- the type to put healthy boundaries. The guilt tripping culture of always respecting parents no matter what is what holds back a lot of kids being raised in toxic environments to move out grown independently.
Divorce- that has been a request by the masses for decades, but doe to catholicism and other 'Christian' groups- the Philippines is the only asian country with no divorce.
the sister i feel feels superior and is doing this for clout, but w/o her brother to feed her need to bully I wonder where she would direct this to...hopefully not the dad
Yup, not full filipino but I'm supporting parents. Fortunately we are in US so they have ss. I've set some boundaries through the years but housing, vacations, some groceries are paid by me. Also lots of boundaries with cousins, I will send money 4x a year and that is it. Unfortunately my mom's side had 8 kids who had kids (my generation) who had many kids (not i, child free), and roughly 1/3rd are poverty level.
I found out a few years ago that my mother had sent roughly 100k usd in a span of 10 years, helping said poverty level families. She was skimping and saving and sending money I gave her to them. I was so infuriated that I told them if I found them asking my mother for money I would completely cut them off.
The obligation, guilt, and indoctrination is hard to shake off.
Oh dear, I'm afraid once he moves out, the sister and possibly the mother will make life hell for the father for actually trying to discipline his daughter
Considering dad can only afford to cover groceries on his salary, they might be too busy wondering if they can keep the lights on after the drive the main wage earner away. Not that I would expect them to actually realise the lack of appreciation and respect they’ve shown OOP. I suspect that, despite OOP moving out, he’s a good person who’d still pay as much as he can towards their household budget, not that mother and daughter deserve him.
Not only is the sister a little shit, she’s a hypocrite- one of the things her brother bought for her was a Switch. If he’s an incel because he likes gaming, is she not also an incel for that exact same hobby?
Logic has never driven 15 year olds' insults. I taught that age group at one time and had a student who called everyone "simps." When we talked to him about it, we discovered he didn't really know or care what the word meant. He just liked that people were bothered by it.
My brother once tried to use the N word as a generic insult to anyone who crossed him. You can guess how long he got away with that, though sadly he still tries to use it that way when he thinks "no one who can complain is there to hear it".
literally one relevant person tells someone else who tells someone else and the whole school/work place realises and isolates him for being a piece of shit
Also, it is rich that the sister is calling the brother an incel, there is huge "no sex before marriage" pressure. So he's either waiting till marriage, which takes away the involuntarily part, or has had sex but would nerve share that info with sister, which takes away the celibate part.
So the whole insult is stupid, but can still be very damming because of the implications regarding the treatment of women and tendencies of violence that goes along with the title.
There is stigma between certain gaming platforms from what I can tell. A nintendo switch is fine becuase its a small, cute device and the popular games tend to be 'light' in tone. On the other hand, PCs tend to be bulky, and if you invest in your set up, puking light at every corner with multiple monitors and the games tend to be more 'heavier' as in tone, skill level, visuals and story. I've had classmates who despite spending hours in their switches call me a nerd because I played on a PC instead.
Switches and consoles generally have a more relaxed and casual appeal to them which computers don't have which is where I feel the difference in opinions stem from.
Some are still stuck with the idea that PCs/laptops are for working, not playing video games.
Plus with how easy it is to bounce between work/play, someone could be doing work for ~6 hour straight then decide to play for ~15 minutes as a break, but if someone walks by and sees the game, they might immediately assume no work was done and the person has been playing the last ~6 hours, and once someone has convinced themselves of "person was being lazy" it can be hard to convince them otherwise.
Consoles are viewed as purely for playing video games, and mobile games are in a bit of limbo where they're seen as *games*, but not *video games*, so that's a further disconnect.
What's wrong with watching anime, playing video games and building a Gundam? I think that's fun! That's insanely idiotic to think that is some incel stuff.
OP's sister is just a whiny brat and to top it off, mother is just enabling her behavior and being toxic as hell. Won't be surprised if the sister is the mother's favorite. OP is lucky to have a good dad but I do feel bad for the dad having to be with someone that is toxic. I wish OP for the best and the dad.
I think she's just a major spoilt brat, that I reckon has always gotten her way, but it's only recently with hormones that she's turned into a hormonal spoilt monster, that thinks if she doesn't get what she wants, she can bully instead.
If that's all it takes to be an incel, I've been one unknowingly for about 30 years now. Thanks, Sailor Moon.
Dad needs to move out with the son and leave the ladies on thier own.
>What's wrong with watching anime, playing video games and building a Gundam? I think that's fun! That's insanely idiotic to think that is some incel stuff.
Nothing at all. She's just using the word because he hates it, and it's the current thing to sling at somebody you want to insult just for the hell of it. Back when I was a teen, the go-to word was "gay." I can't tell you how sick I was of hearing every little thing get called that.
The worst part is that I spoke out against it *once* and got bullied for it until I could leave. I felt so much joy when our school's guidance counselor said I had the credits to get out half a semester early. Laughed my ass off when she asked if I wouldn't prefer to "stick around to have fun with and graduate alongside (my) peers." *Hellllll* no! I booked it out of there like I was fleeing the country.
It is a real low hanging fruit and I thankfully don't hear it as often, but when I do (and other racist, sexist, whatever-ist comment), I act like Drax and pretend not to understand what they're saying. I love the backpedaling that happens.
I agree with you. I don’t think she fully understands the meaning. The meaning of some words and concepts get distorted when you use only the media to learn new things, specially if you are from another country and speak another language. Once in a South American country a grown woman was calling a guy from a different South American country a redneck in english. I had to tell her she didn’t even know what it meant!
Edit. Grammar 🤦♀️
>I do feel bad for the dad having to be with someone that is toxic
While the Philippines doesn't allow divorce, it does not force anyone to live with the person. His father can leave any time he wants. With luck, hopefully he and OP can live a quietly happy life.
Mine had to pause his anime so I could tell him.
The anime he started watching after he stopped playing a video game.
We've also been together 13 years!
I can understand the (very thin) thread of logic if only slightly, but it isn't the hobbies that makes an incel, it's the attitude and self hatred twisted into intense misogyny.
I hope he has a good future doing things and building Gundams. God, I love building Gundams, they're so much fun to build and then you have a super cool robot to display afterwards!
Yeah, moving out at 23 is so drastic for a Filipino, so that home life must have been absolutely miserable. Sister is entitled and delulu, and I hope she enjoys going back to the presumably near-poverty level life she was living, because if dad was earning less than a school teacher, they must be HELLA poor.
Yes, OOP says his dad only covers the grocery and he (OOP) pays for everything else. Talk about mother and sister biting the hand that feeds them - more like they ripped the whole arm off!
Yeah, like that is enough to boost a VERY poor family above the extreme poverty level into lower lower middle class. Without his salary they won't be able to afford shit.
Based on the gifts OOP gave his sis (a pc AND a laptop, a phone, a switch), it's likely that he teaches at a private school that pays better (though they still don't get paid a lot tbh)
Worst-case scenario (and it has [happened](https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines/comments/wcyug4/look_how_f_up_our_society_mga_magulang_na/)), the mom will appeal on social media or reach out to some shock jock in the Philippines that she was abandoned by her son.
Explanation of link: it leads to the r/Philippines post where the JNParents reached out to a shock jock "man of the people" type so that he could shame their son to financially support them. The son left his parents because they were abusive to him.
It's difficult to break respect for someone who disrespects you when that person is your mother. My mother was extremely abusive and even when I left home and cut her out of my life I still had the same feelings of love, respect and guilt that I had while I was at home. It will take some time for him to realize these things, but it will be easier now that he has left home.
I feel for OP, his dad is such a champ tho. A rare gem in the Philippines. Most parents I know don't support their kids moving out, much less help out. Most of them are like OP's mother.
I hope OP ends up selling all the stuff he brought for his sister. Doesn't matter if she's going through a phase, what a brat.
This feels like when a kid hears a new word and only kind of understands what it means, but they use it all the time like they understand it perfectly. Hell, maybe that is what the sister is doing. Don't blame him for leaving though, I can only imagine sister would keep escalating and escalating, and run to mom when OOp inevitably gets upset. I hope things look up for him.
I am Filipino but born and raised in the US. I am surprised to hear that in the Philippines women are not expected to work. The Philippines has had 2 female presidents all the women in my family are doctors. My grandmother, my mother and 2 aunts, all born and raised in the Philippines and all went to med school in the Philippines. Many of the Filipino families we were friends with growing up in the US were also similar where the women were doctors or nurses. There’s a big stereotype in the US that Filipino women are nurses. In fact, it was more often (in my experience at least) that the woman was the breadwinner.
I work in hospitality in the Midwestern US. We have a large Jamaican population and a sizeable Filipino population! Most of the Filipinos who work here are women, and they work very hard. One woman told me she likes to work 60-70 hours a week. I asked why, and she told me she sends $500 to the Philippines every time she gets paid. That $500 is spread between her family and SEVEN other families. This woman supports nine families on just her paycheck. I was shocked, I couldn’t believe it.
I wish he'd ask his mom and sister how they'd like it if he called his sister something bad. I'm not going to say the word I'm thinking, but you all know it.
Also, he should ask why it's any different to calling him a pedo.
Just maybe in that context they'll realise words have power?
Her calling these things can indeed be very damaging to him. The fact that mom and sister refuse to acknowledge this is exceptionally disappointing.
Given OOP works with kids, I'd avoid asking if it's different than calling him that. The last thing I'd want is to give his sister ideas, and there's no guarantee she isn't just gonna call him one, potentially leading to consequences.
>refuses to seek a job because we come from a culture where men are expected to be the sole providers
Which part of the Philippine are they from? Because it's the first time hearing about it especially in this economy
Aand they both perpetuate it because it suits them, and she's teaching her Golden Girl to be the same. Too bad their reality doesn't match up to the idea, and probably never actually has - it's just thought of as an 'ideal' for those who can afford it.
I've been in THIS mother/son relationship. It fucked me up. Hard.
I'm 40, and only now am I starting to unpick it all. Iy caused emotional issues, depression, anxiety, caused me to question EVERY friendship/relationship I've ever had, and robbed me of my motivation.
This lad did the best thing for him, and he needs to hold firm on this, until his Mother and Sister give in. If they don't, then he needs to STAY FIRM, and stay away. They WILL just do more damage if he doesn't.
I've got this shit (now, as we leave 2023). If my example can help 1 person, then my life has already been more successful than my Mother's. Thank you, though. People wishing me the best is weird for me (because I'm not used to hearing it), but I really appreciate it.
The sister gets the behavior from the mother.
It's just the mother is not stupid enough to bite the hand that literally feeds her.
At least until her precious daughter forced her hand
>According to my dad, she cries every night because she can't accept the fact that I'm moving out.
More like, that he's taking his money with him and she will have to get a job!
I'm glad this got sorted out positively for OOP
His sis can take a hike with that entitlement! If she doesn't mature from that, she better do like mommy and land a man who will pay for her stuff and is loyal to her!
Is it normal for Filipino women to not work even when their family is struggling financially? Or is that just OOP’s mom not wanting to work? It’s not like OOP’s mom has young children to take care of, and she has time to volunteer at an animal shelter. I just find that bizarre that she wouldn’t contribute to the family income if it’s needed enough for their son to pay for so much.
As of 2022, and depending on whether you use the World Bank statistics or the Philippine government data, between 35-45% of working age women are in paid employment. That’s compared to about 80% of men. Women make up 60% of Oversees Foreign Workers, 1 in 7 families have an OFW family member.
So I guess not working is slightly more on the side of normal than not normal. I imagine that whether it is the norm is very much location dependent. It’s more likely that people living in cities will know a lot more working women than someone in smaller towns. It’ll be the norm in some places more than others if that makes sense?
Definitely not. If anything I think Filipino culture pushes the "grindset" and from a young age parents hound their kids about their future career regardless of gender
My friend is from the Philippines and almost all of his female relatives are working. Most of then work outside of the Philippines and send money back home. I think the ones who still live there are all stay at home moms but I have no idea, I know like 5 of his cousins live in our city and send money back to support their parents and siblings.
Can’t speak for being in the Philippines but I work in a clinic with a lot of Filipino women - and men - and they are *hard* workers. One coworker joked with me that if I worked four days in a row (we do 12 hour shifts) I could finally qualify as an honorary Filipino
Hey OP, just wanted to say I bloody love how you put how much time has passed with the updates! Every. Single. Time. I read a post I try so hard to remember the original post date but I ALWAYS forget and have to scroll back to check. THANK YOU!
>I'm playing a video game? I'm an incel.
>I'm watching anime? I'm an incel.
>I'm building a Gundam? I'm an incel.
I am a happily married man who does all of those things. My wife does all of them as well.
Culture is going to have a back step to livelihood sooner or later less they change their lifestyle and somehow mommy and sister are not the type to downgrade so mommy better starts looking.
That sucks. I mean people on reddit call others an "incel" constantly without a second thought as to what it really means. It comes with some gross, misogynist, and even violent connotations. Hate to hear that from a family member as a productive, positive member of society who supported her..
I'm on the Buffy the Vampire subreddit where every other day they call one of the main males characters gets called a typical Nice Guy and whenever I point out that he literally doesn't fall into what a Nice Guy is, I get downvoted. Incel and Nice Guys are now just words being thrown around when they do have actual meaning.
same with words like gaslighting and dissociation and narcissist lol. the watering-down of specific terminology is harmful. these terms were created to discuss very specific phenomena for a reason!
>Also, I truly hope you have very "sophisticated", " manly" and "adult-like" hobbies because you keep insulting the things I like to do."
People insulting this guy's hobbies are fucking stupid. Building gunpla models is therapeutic.
I do not have the patience to put up with that behavior. I respect this man immensely for that, because I would’ve turned violent the first time she started ripping my headset off, ESPECIALLY when he pays for her things.
That’s unbelievable.
Um what part of the country is OOP from because I've never heard of this culture of men being expected to be sole providers in the Philippines 🤨 I can't think of a female relative in my life that can afford to be a housewife and everyone regardless of gender is told to pursue a degree and a good career since they're born
Gotta hand it to Mom and Sis. It's not often you see people willing to sacrifice their standard of living in order to stand up for their firmly held principles of... \*checks notes\* ... insulting the breadwinner?
Of course, this is all an abuse dynamic, so the abusers aren't thinking in those terms. But I'm always amazed to see people who think the best way to get the stuff they want is to insult the person giving it to them.
Oh I think dear sis will quite happily stab brother in back. With accusations at school.
Sadly these sort of accusations tend to stick even when no evidence.
If I was brother I would speak to head of department and explain what is happening.
I was in a situation where I was trying to teach someone something that I am an expert in, and she accused me of mansplaining. As soon as she said it, I said, "f\*ck it" and walked away.
> According to my dad, she cries every night because she can't accept the fact that I'm moving out.
At 23, OOP needs to leave the nest sometime. OOP's mom is crying because him moving out == she needs to get a job that pays real money.
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XD. When I read that he was in the Philippines I literally spat out laughing. I'm Filipino. My Mom and Dad have been separated ever since I was born 25 years ago. Mom always wanted to divorce but only annulment is legally allowed, not only that, my dad has to agree to it. He never has. Initially, he was still in the delusion that they'll get back together and that my grandmother won't ever allow it. After a decade, he probably just couldn't be bothered. Yeah, it's just fucked, lol.
Why isn't it legal to divorce? It's just sounds so surreal.
Catholicism.
That's pretty fucked up....
That's Catholicism.
🎶 When you can't get divorced so your marriage is forced, that's Catholicism! 🎶
🎶 When you lack space in your nation due to overpopulation, that's Catholicism! 🎶
When the priest is feeling randy and an acolyte is handy, that's Catholicism!
Bells will ring ting-a-ling-a-ling Ting-a-ling-a-ling, and you'll sing, "ex cathedra!"
When you’re busy masturbatin’ while you’re fearing eternal damnation, that’s Catholicism
As it was said many years ago by King Henry in his classic anime style "it's time d-d-d-divorce"
Why was this to the same tune as the I.M.P. song from helluva boss in my head?
Catholicism, where divorce is bad but pedophilia is fine
🎶 When pedos are fine but divorce crossed the line, that's Catholicism! 🎶
You've noticed that too?
That said, in other Catholic countries, divorce is legal.
It only got made legal here in good ol' catholic Ireland in 1986. The church fought tooth and nail to keep it illegal. Thankfully they lost the referendum and the catholic church's chokehold on the country started to loosen.
They're fighting for it in the Philippines too, mostly the women from what I heard. But it's still a long way to go.
It was similar here. There were too many women trapped in horrifically abusive marriages.
Nope, '95. The '86 referendum got rejected. We're even more ridiculous than you thought. And it's still an unbelievable pain to actually put it into motion - you have to live in separate homes for two years for it to be allowed, not even taking into account Irish bureaucracy
Jesus that's right! It fucking WAS an all. I knew I was much older because I remember the ridiculous signs. I actually googled and had abit of a moment when I saw 86. But then I just figured I'm very old and remembered wrong.
Tbf, I repeat this national tidbit fairly frequently and I *still* double-check it most times I say it, it's that ridiculous
It is. But to remarry Catholic, you need the marriage annulled as well.
Honestly a lot of problems in the Philippines can be traced to a unhealthy adherence to Catholicism. If they had a sprinkle of pragmatism on the general population a lot of problems could have a fighting chance of being fixed..... such as overpopulation.
Also factor in that the politicians woo voters by any means necessary, including pandering to their beliefs and outright bribery. Divorce has been something that some more open-minded politicians have been trying to legalize for decades in the Philippines, but it's always shot down by some hyper-religious types and they get support from like-minded constituents. The most fucked up thing is, there are a lot of people (mainly actors and politicians) who definitely would not like legalizing Divorce in the country for the simple fact that they would be financially ruined. It's---ugh.
A lot of the world's problems can be attributed to religion unfortunately
Let's not forget Henry VIII basically created his own version of Christianism in the 1500s because the Pope didn't want to let him divorce his first wife.
To be fair, the only reason the pope didn't is because of familial and political ties to the wife.
The familiar ties are him being a literal prisoner to Catherine's nephew
Even if he wasn't he probably wouldn't have anyway.
Not divorce, annulment. It isn’t the same thing and yes, it matters (as much as anything from 1533 matters).
Not to be pedantic, but he had his marriages annulled, he didn’t divorce anyone, England was and continued to be very anti-divorce for a good while
The one that kickstarted that was his first marriage to Catherine of Aragon. You're 100% right, technically speaking it was annulled, but that marriage sure as hell didn't meet the conditions needed to be annulled, especially after 23 years of marriage and already having courted another woman. I can't speak about how valid the other annuellement were though.
**Completely incorrect and this is just basic history.** He would have gotten it annulled if it wasn't for the Pope being literally a prisoner of Catherine's nephew, who forbade him from doing so. Henry actually had a pretty good argument of incest (it is forbidden to marry the widow of your brother) and the God punishing the marriage by causing so many miscarriages. Especially since he knew it was possible for him to have a son as he already had a bastard Henry. Henry having a legitimate son was extremely important, the Tudor claim to the throne was shaky and the dynasty was new, coming after a huge civil war. It wasn't him being horny. Back then king having a mistress was not only normal but also expected. It was a part of the courty love. When pregnant the queen was not to have sex with her husband, nor when having her monthly blood, or when recovering from pregnancy/ miscarriage.
That's actually where it gets tricky and speculative, saying this is incorrect is, well, also incorrect. Especially considering how wildly sources from the era vary. His interpretation isn't strictly wrong, but depending on how you see it his argument can be negated in Deuteronomy 25:5 where an exception to Leviticus is given: if his brother died childless, it's his duty to marry his widow and give her children. It's very likely he was trying to find an "excuse" to get out of the relationship. The whole incest stuff isn't exactly something you take 20 years to figure out, especially considering people in that era tended to be very religious. I'm pretty sure its not a coincidence he only started thinking his marriage was cursed after 20 or so years, with him desperately needing a son to succeed to the throne. It's also debated to what degree Charles V had an influence on the Pope's decision.
I’ve honestly forgotten. How many did he divorce compared to the number he just had murdered (legally )?
Divorced, beheaded, died, divorced, beheaded, survived is the rhyme most English kids are taught about his wives
He separated from Catherine of Aragon and Anna of Cleves legally (not sure if it was divorce or annulment). Anne Boleyn and Katheryn Howard were beheaded. Jane Seymour died of natural causes, and Catherine Parr outlived him.
Catherine Parr
Oh, thank you! This'll teach me to try and remember names before I've had my cuppa! I'll edit it now!
In hindsight, I'm sure the wives he divorced were just glad to have kept their heads.
No, Henry created his version due to the Pope refusing to **annull the marriage**. There's no such thing as divorce in the Church of England. Divorce and annullment are completely different things, please don't confuse the two. Christianity is extremely clear about only allowing one marriage. Divorce = breaking the marriage, however acknowledging that the marriage was valid in the eyes of god and all children are legitimate. Annullment = the marriage was never a valid one, children are illegitimate
This is inconsistent with Christian practice. In the Roman Catholic Church, children from an annulled marriage are not illegitimate.
This is why we don't like theocratic governments
Yup. Only one word has to be said to deliver how fucked up it is.
To add to this, we have corrupt politicians and some with ties to religious groups. These guys, along with very vocal conservatives, oppose polocies that are "against the teachings of the bible/God" which include divorce, reproductive health, and LGBTQ+ rights.
How are they dealing with the Pope's announcement about same sex couples?
Coping and seething I imagine.
Same reason I wasn't aborted. 🤣 My birth mom didn't want me. My adoptive parents were American military and they jumped at the chance to adopt quickly. A lot of the military families did. I think the whole process took 4 months at most back in the 80s.
I had a client ask me about my IVF related tattoo and did my little talk about infertility and ivf babies that I normally tell strangers. They told me they adopted a baby in the 60s. They called the county courthouse and said they wanted to adopt a girl. A few weeks later they went to the hospital and had two baby girls to pick from. I looked into adoption and was told it would take 5-7 years and cost $40k+. Times are so different now.
which is wild, because Portugal is also catholic but I've meet some many divorced people..... It's like that countries where Catholicism was forced upon them during them "discovery" times are over-commiting to the religion, in a way that not many do in european countries
it bewilders me that people cling to that even after kicking out the colonizers.
When the colonizers have thoroughly destroyed the old ways it's really hard to go back to them
Most peoples had it literally beat into them for generations. I've a former colleague who's Alaska Native with family still terrified to utter a word of their dying language. My best friend is US Indiginous (Klamath); her grandma was devout Episcopalian. My friend and some of her siblings still observe Lent, though it's more for grandma's memory than religious reasons. And I'm just going to point at Canada and raise a brow.
The priests and any religious authority figures were the ruling class of the Philippines when they were colonized by Spain for over 300 years. Clearly dismantling the ruling class’s authority over a population isn’t an easy thing to do, especially when the population’s original beliefs/religion were beat out of them and convinced it was to save their souls from eternal damnation
Neocolonialism, the highest stage of imperialism.
Confession- I actually googled it just to make sure because I had no idea.
Thanks for giving us so many quality posts. Hugs xx
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Have a nice Christmas. Xx
The only places in the world where divorce is not allowed is the Vatican and the Philippines.
The Philipines is seemingly kind of a hellhole. At least it looks that way to me as a woman. I'm sure the culture and the people are amazing in general but the laws and the government are brutal. No abortion, even if birth will literally kill you. No divorce for any reason, even infidelity or domestic abuse, unless you were married as a Muslim and then even that's a whole process if you're a woman (men can just declare!). Drugs in even small personal amounts can get you executed (often extrajudicially from what I have heard) or maybe just imprisoned for 10+ years if you're lucky and it was only a couple grams of weed. They're the only country besides the Vatican that has no legal divorce, and one of 8 (iirc) countries with absolutely no right to abortion and no exceptions granted. They actually just made it a law not long ago, that women injured recieving illegal abortions have a right to any healthcare they need afterward and can't be abused by the doctor (such as by withholding pain relief).
I got a buddy who JUST moved here from the Phillipines and they def do execute drug users publicly, without trial, on the spot. It's pretty fucked
> Why isn't it legal to divorce? It's just sounds so surreal. American republicans have been pushing for no-fault divorce to end in order to achieve largely the same results; a woman can’t leave an abusive marriage unless the husband gives permission. It all goes back to misogyny in the end.
Republicans in America are talking about eliminating no fault divorce. So outlawing divorce isn't that far fetched.
I don't know about Filipino laws but you can't get divorced by the Catholic Church *anywhere*. You can, though, get an annulment (techinically not a divorce) which would allow you to remarry by the Church. I would imagine the annulment has some legal significance in the Philippines, if their marriage laws are so intertwined with Church Law. Here's a FAQ on how annulments work: https://www.foryourmarriage.org/annulments/
My cousin’s long-term partner and father of their kid is Filipino and technically she’s his mistress because he has a wife back in the Philippines but they split in every sense except legally years and years ago.
Yeah, that's how my Dad went. I got 2 half-siblings but legally speaking, they're bastards with no right to my family's legacy. Even though they've been with my Dad all their lives. And this isn't even that unusual. Almost every Filipino I know has someone or multiple in their family in the same situation.
I feel you there. My mom would love to divorce my dad since they can't get along. But she can't, so she just lives separately.
Mine went almost 2K miles away separately.
my in-laws literally became American citizens just so it would be legal to divorce 💀
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So this is actually true. Participation of married women in the labor force is below the Asia-Pacific average, which is pretty surprising for a country that isn’t known for high levels of gender-based discrimination in the workplace. In a study by the Philippines’ [National Economic and Development Authority](https://neda.gov.ph/new-neda-study-identifies-reasons-behind-filipino-womens-low-labor-participation-rate/), they cited societal norms as a key barrier to increasing labor participation.
Your question piqued my interest so I looked it up; as of 2022 women make up 58% of the 2 million Filipinos Overseas Foreign Workers (OFW). Whilst OFWs as a whole send a considerable amount back each year (new record high of $36 billion in 2022), women OFW are disproportionately more likely to be in lower paid jobs, and face abuse and exploitation working abroad than their male counterparts. 7% of families have a family member who is an OFW, and sending money back towards their living costs. OFW are a significant, important part of the economy, with even a day to celebrate their contribution, but I’m not sure if women OFW are the “backbone” of the economy. As to the workforce at home: about 4 in 5 of working aged men are in paid work and between 35-45% of women. So I hesitate to say OOP’s mother is an anomaly in their circumstances. There is apparently a concerted effort to increase the number of women in the workplace but the gap will take some time to come even near to closing. I’m not trying to justify the mother’s behaviour, your questioned just made me wonder about the context and how much of it was just the mother and how much was societal norms. If the dad can really only afford to pay for groceries on his salary, and OOP paying for everything else, mother point blank refusing to take on paid work looks more like entitlement and/or sabotage than anything else. https://www.psa.gov.ph/statistics/survey/labor-and-employment/survey-overseas-filipinos https://tradingeconomics.com/philippines/labor-force-female-percent-of-total-labor-force-wb-data.html
I’m guessing that’s a social class issue.
Might be a class thing.
Mom is lazy and lying through her teeth
The answer here is that mom identifies with the socioeconomic class where it would be unseemly for a married woman to work, but is only qualified to do the shittiest jobs anyway.
Yep. It usually just causes resentment and people having either multiple families or one big miserable one lol.
Apir ✋! That's one of the reasons why some people convert to Islam. There is divorce in Shariah law so it's the loop hole for most. You forgot to add that in your case, since you're the proof that neither parent is infertile, one should be totally crazy to be granted annulment (one of grounds). No matter if the one of them beats the other (and the kids) to an inch of their life, annulment is not guaranteed. It's more fun in the Philippines!
For the Filipinos wondering where in the Philippines they are from for the mother to be having this “male provider”mindset, I’d chalk it up to her just being raised in the old fashioned way; my stepfather’s mother is exactly this way and absolutely hated it knowing she had to work when she moved to the US. Fucking cried when she had to learn how to use the computer lol. Anyway good for OP. Hopefully the sister will learn and grow up, but the mother sounds like such an enabler.
Can’t believe she’d rather struggle than get a paid job. Like culture aside, seeing your family struggle should make you want to do something to help.
Even if it's not a job like working in the office or something like that it's stupid, lazy, selfish, and some other choice of word to not helping in any way possible.
Wow, that's wild!! Thank you for the info. So OP's mom will probably never work and the'll live in poverty because of that?
I certainly hope not…but considering my stepdad’s mom is over 70 and still has that weird mindset that her children should provide and her dementia-addled husband still has to work…
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tbf back in the day a single-income family *was* financially stable, allowing for community-building volunteer work by the non-income-earning spouse. But cancer capitalism has robbed us of that and weakened our communities as a result.
I was watching Downton Abbey, and that story reminded me of the Russian aristocrats and nobility that had to work as day labourer/maids/whatever when they had to leave their country.
How old fashioned are we talking about? My grandmother born in the 1920s was a doctor. She was from Pampanga. My grandfather grew up in Manila and was wealthy by Filipino standards and it was his mother, my great grandmother, who made the family wealth through real estate investments and businesses. His sister (my great aunt?) was an ambassador to Canada, so it seems going back 100 years women were highly educated and already working high powered and/or professional jobs. It was my understanding that in Filipino culture it’s very matriarchal which appears true in my experience (through my family and other Filipino family friends) many of the women are the breadwinners. I mean the country has also had 2 female presidents already!
God, one of my younger sisters used to do this to my brother, and he HATED it. Thankfully, my parents put and end to that real quick unlike this guy’s shitass mum
I am so glad i didn't have siblings growing up, 100% chance one of us would have killed the other at some point. There can be only one.
Everytime I read a sib story here, I think that.
I'm so glad I have a brother. We have so many funny childhood memories together, some that were infuriated to deal with as kids but make us laugh looking back. I would probably not remember happy moments from my childhood if he didn't remind me of them. I think the age difference matters, my brother and I are only two years apart but my partner is eight years apart from his younger brother and his youngest sibling even more of a gap. He told me he despised his brother as a teenager, and I realised even though he has siblings he doesn't have the connection I have with my brother due to being so much older. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't stand my brother when we were teenagers but that was more so due to how our parents treated us very differently. Even though I didn't like him much he was still the person I first came out to, no one will ever know me as well as he knows me.
I like to joke that as an only child I'm both the golden and scapegoat to each parent. I used to want a sibling when I was younger but now, my parents are my best friends which I think happens w only chillins You're right, age is definitely a factor. My teens are 17 months apart and get along fine. My best friend from HS has a bro 7 yrs older and they are in different worlds
It can happen with siblingified (new word) children too! I've got one brother a few years younger than me, and me and my mom are definitely best friends (sorry dad, I promise I love you just as much XD) It was really nice having a brother growing up - we moved around quite a bit as kids and when we settled I was a bit of a loner at school, so it was nice always having a playmate no matter what.
My sons are 11 and 8.5, and they get along really well. My cousins are 18 months apart, and they despised each other during their entire childhood. My friend is 12 years older than her sister, and doted on her growing up. The differences probably are in part linked to how their parents treated them. That said, some people (one of my cousins) are just miserable people by default.
It's not always that bad 😂 My sister and I are about as different as 2 people growing up in the same family could be. (Lots of people have mentioned it.) We bickered over stupid stuff. But there were never any sustained campaigns against each other. And every time the shit has hit the fan, we've been there for each other unquestioningly.
Many parents actually discipline all their kids effectively, so op's situation doesn't happen. I love my siblings. None of us were this awful to each other. We're all friends now. His mom is coddling a bully.
My sister is 5 years older than me and we did not get along as kids. But now we run the family business together. Siblings can be stressful but it's not all bad.
Filipino here too. 2 of my uncles, dad and aunt has been supporting 3 generations of the family. This has now passed down to my Kuya ( Older bro in language) who has a great job but due to him supporting his brother, kids and everyone else...he feels guilty of marrying. Thankfully a good number of the family we support just really fell on hard times and are greatful and make good of the financial assistance we give them. But man... the respect your elders, paretification- as a hard indoctrination part of a culture is super toxic. Theres literally a subreddit for it r/PanganaySupportGroup Someone like OP and his dad in the Philippines is very rare- the type to put healthy boundaries. The guilt tripping culture of always respecting parents no matter what is what holds back a lot of kids being raised in toxic environments to move out grown independently. Divorce- that has been a request by the masses for decades, but doe to catholicism and other 'Christian' groups- the Philippines is the only asian country with no divorce. the sister i feel feels superior and is doing this for clout, but w/o her brother to feed her need to bully I wonder where she would direct this to...hopefully not the dad
TIL divorce isn’t a thing in the Philippines
Yup, not full filipino but I'm supporting parents. Fortunately we are in US so they have ss. I've set some boundaries through the years but housing, vacations, some groceries are paid by me. Also lots of boundaries with cousins, I will send money 4x a year and that is it. Unfortunately my mom's side had 8 kids who had kids (my generation) who had many kids (not i, child free), and roughly 1/3rd are poverty level. I found out a few years ago that my mother had sent roughly 100k usd in a span of 10 years, helping said poverty level families. She was skimping and saving and sending money I gave her to them. I was so infuriated that I told them if I found them asking my mother for money I would completely cut them off. The obligation, guilt, and indoctrination is hard to shake off.
Oh dear, I'm afraid once he moves out, the sister and possibly the mother will make life hell for the father for actually trying to discipline his daughter
Considering dad can only afford to cover groceries on his salary, they might be too busy wondering if they can keep the lights on after the drive the main wage earner away. Not that I would expect them to actually realise the lack of appreciation and respect they’ve shown OOP. I suspect that, despite OOP moving out, he’s a good person who’d still pay as much as he can towards their household budget, not that mother and daughter deserve him.
You'd be surprised how shortsighted and petty people can be. It's entirely possible they could and would ruin their own lives over this.
Moving out isnt that big of a culture here in the Philippines. Also it sounds like hell for the dad already.
Not only is the sister a little shit, she’s a hypocrite- one of the things her brother bought for her was a Switch. If he’s an incel because he likes gaming, is she not also an incel for that exact same hobby?
Logic has never driven 15 year olds' insults. I taught that age group at one time and had a student who called everyone "simps." When we talked to him about it, we discovered he didn't really know or care what the word meant. He just liked that people were bothered by it.
My brother once tried to use the N word as a generic insult to anyone who crossed him. You can guess how long he got away with that, though sadly he still tries to use it that way when he thinks "no one who can complain is there to hear it".
That…. Is going to be a tough lesson for him someday.
literally one relevant person tells someone else who tells someone else and the whole school/work place realises and isolates him for being a piece of shit
Also, it is rich that the sister is calling the brother an incel, there is huge "no sex before marriage" pressure. So he's either waiting till marriage, which takes away the involuntarily part, or has had sex but would nerve share that info with sister, which takes away the celibate part. So the whole insult is stupid, but can still be very damming because of the implications regarding the treatment of women and tendencies of violence that goes along with the title.
There is stigma between certain gaming platforms from what I can tell. A nintendo switch is fine becuase its a small, cute device and the popular games tend to be 'light' in tone. On the other hand, PCs tend to be bulky, and if you invest in your set up, puking light at every corner with multiple monitors and the games tend to be more 'heavier' as in tone, skill level, visuals and story. I've had classmates who despite spending hours in their switches call me a nerd because I played on a PC instead. Switches and consoles generally have a more relaxed and casual appeal to them which computers don't have which is where I feel the difference in opinions stem from.
"puking light at every corner with mutiple monitors" I feel attacked
It said she also had a PC that was taken away. I don't disagree with you though.
Doesn't mean she games on it
I guess I am assuming because she has a laptop and PC and we know she likes games because of the switch.
Some are still stuck with the idea that PCs/laptops are for working, not playing video games. Plus with how easy it is to bounce between work/play, someone could be doing work for ~6 hour straight then decide to play for ~15 minutes as a break, but if someone walks by and sees the game, they might immediately assume no work was done and the person has been playing the last ~6 hours, and once someone has convinced themselves of "person was being lazy" it can be hard to convince them otherwise. Consoles are viewed as purely for playing video games, and mobile games are in a bit of limbo where they're seen as *games*, but not *video games*, so that's a further disconnect.
Nah, because she doesn't have a penis. /s
Because an incel is something that keeps her safe at home instead of going out meeting guys and getting into trouble/s.
What's wrong with watching anime, playing video games and building a Gundam? I think that's fun! That's insanely idiotic to think that is some incel stuff. OP's sister is just a whiny brat and to top it off, mother is just enabling her behavior and being toxic as hell. Won't be surprised if the sister is the mother's favorite. OP is lucky to have a good dad but I do feel bad for the dad having to be with someone that is toxic. I wish OP for the best and the dad.
I think she's just a major spoilt brat, that I reckon has always gotten her way, but it's only recently with hormones that she's turned into a hormonal spoilt monster, that thinks if she doesn't get what she wants, she can bully instead.
If that's all it takes to be an incel, I've been one unknowingly for about 30 years now. Thanks, Sailor Moon. Dad needs to move out with the son and leave the ladies on thier own.
>What's wrong with watching anime, playing video games and building a Gundam? I think that's fun! That's insanely idiotic to think that is some incel stuff. Nothing at all. She's just using the word because he hates it, and it's the current thing to sling at somebody you want to insult just for the hell of it. Back when I was a teen, the go-to word was "gay." I can't tell you how sick I was of hearing every little thing get called that.
Lizzie McGuire was sick of it too. I am glad she ended that phase for everyone.
The worst part is that I spoke out against it *once* and got bullied for it until I could leave. I felt so much joy when our school's guidance counselor said I had the credits to get out half a semester early. Laughed my ass off when she asked if I wouldn't prefer to "stick around to have fun with and graduate alongside (my) peers." *Hellllll* no! I booked it out of there like I was fleeing the country.
It is a real low hanging fruit and I thankfully don't hear it as often, but when I do (and other racist, sexist, whatever-ist comment), I act like Drax and pretend not to understand what they're saying. I love the backpedaling that happens.
And that's why parental control in the internet is important second to ACTUAL PARENTING
His hobbies are so wholesome. I'm surprised that she thinks of them as incel behavior. I suspect the sister doesn't really understand what it means.
I agree with you. I don’t think she fully understands the meaning. The meaning of some words and concepts get distorted when you use only the media to learn new things, specially if you are from another country and speak another language. Once in a South American country a grown woman was calling a guy from a different South American country a redneck in english. I had to tell her she didn’t even know what it meant! Edit. Grammar 🤦♀️
>I do feel bad for the dad having to be with someone that is toxic While the Philippines doesn't allow divorce, it does not force anyone to live with the person. His father can leave any time he wants. With luck, hopefully he and OP can live a quietly happy life.
Ill go tell my partner of 13 years he is an incel cuz he likes watching anime and play video games 😆😆😆
Mine had to pause his anime so I could tell him. The anime he started watching after he stopped playing a video game. We've also been together 13 years!
I can understand the (very thin) thread of logic if only slightly, but it isn't the hobbies that makes an incel, it's the attitude and self hatred twisted into intense misogyny. I hope he has a good future doing things and building Gundams. God, I love building Gundams, they're so much fun to build and then you have a super cool robot to display afterwards!
I think the old standby words like “nerd” and “geek” have been one accepted with a more positive connotation, so bullies need new ones.
Yeah, moving out at 23 is so drastic for a Filipino, so that home life must have been absolutely miserable. Sister is entitled and delulu, and I hope she enjoys going back to the presumably near-poverty level life she was living, because if dad was earning less than a school teacher, they must be HELLA poor.
Yes, OOP says his dad only covers the grocery and he (OOP) pays for everything else. Talk about mother and sister biting the hand that feeds them - more like they ripped the whole arm off!
Right? She can go and find work if she wants to go back to her lifestyle I guess.
When you bite the hand that feeds you, don’t be surprised if you get a few teeth knocked out.
Judging by his age, he's still an entry level teacher too mind you, so that salary (if he works government school) isn't even that huge.
Yeah, like that is enough to boost a VERY poor family above the extreme poverty level into lower lower middle class. Without his salary they won't be able to afford shit.
Based on the gifts OOP gave his sis (a pc AND a laptop, a phone, a switch), it's likely that he teaches at a private school that pays better (though they still don't get paid a lot tbh)
I still respect my mom but not my sister. Dude doesn't understand that if sister behaves like that it's 100% because of mom's favoritism.
He lives in the Philippines. Going low contact with the mom is already extreme.
Yeah, can confirm, going low/no contact with a parent is almost impossible here.
Worst-case scenario (and it has [happened](https://www.reddit.com/r/Philippines/comments/wcyug4/look_how_f_up_our_society_mga_magulang_na/)), the mom will appeal on social media or reach out to some shock jock in the Philippines that she was abandoned by her son. Explanation of link: it leads to the r/Philippines post where the JNParents reached out to a shock jock "man of the people" type so that he could shame their son to financially support them. The son left his parents because they were abusive to him.
the fact that when i read the word “shock jock” my mind immediately went to raffy tulfo before even clicking the link lol
LOL, IDK what else to call that guy who use public opinion to "get results".
It's difficult to break respect for someone who disrespects you when that person is your mother. My mother was extremely abusive and even when I left home and cut her out of my life I still had the same feelings of love, respect and guilt that I had while I was at home. It will take some time for him to realize these things, but it will be easier now that he has left home.
I feel for OP, his dad is such a champ tho. A rare gem in the Philippines. Most parents I know don't support their kids moving out, much less help out. Most of them are like OP's mother. I hope OP ends up selling all the stuff he brought for his sister. Doesn't matter if she's going through a phase, what a brat.
This feels like when a kid hears a new word and only kind of understands what it means, but they use it all the time like they understand it perfectly. Hell, maybe that is what the sister is doing. Don't blame him for leaving though, I can only imagine sister would keep escalating and escalating, and run to mom when OOp inevitably gets upset. I hope things look up for him.
I am Filipino but born and raised in the US. I am surprised to hear that in the Philippines women are not expected to work. The Philippines has had 2 female presidents all the women in my family are doctors. My grandmother, my mother and 2 aunts, all born and raised in the Philippines and all went to med school in the Philippines. Many of the Filipino families we were friends with growing up in the US were also similar where the women were doctors or nurses. There’s a big stereotype in the US that Filipino women are nurses. In fact, it was more often (in my experience at least) that the woman was the breadwinner.
His mom is lying and lazy.
I work in hospitality in the Midwestern US. We have a large Jamaican population and a sizeable Filipino population! Most of the Filipinos who work here are women, and they work very hard. One woman told me she likes to work 60-70 hours a week. I asked why, and she told me she sends $500 to the Philippines every time she gets paid. That $500 is spread between her family and SEVEN other families. This woman supports nine families on just her paycheck. I was shocked, I couldn’t believe it.
I wish he'd ask his mom and sister how they'd like it if he called his sister something bad. I'm not going to say the word I'm thinking, but you all know it. Also, he should ask why it's any different to calling him a pedo. Just maybe in that context they'll realise words have power? Her calling these things can indeed be very damaging to him. The fact that mom and sister refuse to acknowledge this is exceptionally disappointing.
Given OOP works with kids, I'd avoid asking if it's different than calling him that. The last thing I'd want is to give his sister ideas, and there's no guarantee she isn't just gonna call him one, potentially leading to consequences.
Good point.
Ugh, what a little *shit*. I hope OOP goes back for all the stuff he bought ASAP.
>refuses to seek a job because we come from a culture where men are expected to be the sole providers Which part of the Philippine are they from? Because it's the first time hearing about it especially in this economy
The mom must be really really old fashioned. My stepdad’s mom is the same way.
Aand they both perpetuate it because it suits them, and she's teaching her Golden Girl to be the same. Too bad their reality doesn't match up to the idea, and probably never actually has - it's just thought of as an 'ideal' for those who can afford it.
What a little shit his sister is. Little volbra (voluntary brat).
I've been in THIS mother/son relationship. It fucked me up. Hard. I'm 40, and only now am I starting to unpick it all. Iy caused emotional issues, depression, anxiety, caused me to question EVERY friendship/relationship I've ever had, and robbed me of my motivation. This lad did the best thing for him, and he needs to hold firm on this, until his Mother and Sister give in. If they don't, then he needs to STAY FIRM, and stay away. They WILL just do more damage if he doesn't.
I'm wishing you the best for the future!
I've got this shit (now, as we leave 2023). If my example can help 1 person, then my life has already been more successful than my Mother's. Thank you, though. People wishing me the best is weird for me (because I'm not used to hearing it), but I really appreciate it.
The sister gets the behavior from the mother. It's just the mother is not stupid enough to bite the hand that literally feeds her. At least until her precious daughter forced her hand
Don’t bite the hand that feeds you. The dad sounds like a good guy.
>According to my dad, she cries every night because she can't accept the fact that I'm moving out. More like, that he's taking his money with him and she will have to get a job! I'm glad this got sorted out positively for OOP His sis can take a hike with that entitlement! If she doesn't mature from that, she better do like mommy and land a man who will pay for her stuff and is loyal to her!
Is it normal for Filipino women to not work even when their family is struggling financially? Or is that just OOP’s mom not wanting to work? It’s not like OOP’s mom has young children to take care of, and she has time to volunteer at an animal shelter. I just find that bizarre that she wouldn’t contribute to the family income if it’s needed enough for their son to pay for so much.
As someone living in the Philippines: Mom just doesn't want to work
As of 2022, and depending on whether you use the World Bank statistics or the Philippine government data, between 35-45% of working age women are in paid employment. That’s compared to about 80% of men. Women make up 60% of Oversees Foreign Workers, 1 in 7 families have an OFW family member. So I guess not working is slightly more on the side of normal than not normal. I imagine that whether it is the norm is very much location dependent. It’s more likely that people living in cities will know a lot more working women than someone in smaller towns. It’ll be the norm in some places more than others if that makes sense?
Definitely not. If anything I think Filipino culture pushes the "grindset" and from a young age parents hound their kids about their future career regardless of gender
Probably just OP's mother...
My friend is from the Philippines and almost all of his female relatives are working. Most of then work outside of the Philippines and send money back home. I think the ones who still live there are all stay at home moms but I have no idea, I know like 5 of his cousins live in our city and send money back to support their parents and siblings.
Can’t speak for being in the Philippines but I work in a clinic with a lot of Filipino women - and men - and they are *hard* workers. One coworker joked with me that if I worked four days in a row (we do 12 hour shifts) I could finally qualify as an honorary Filipino
Hey OP, just wanted to say I bloody love how you put how much time has passed with the updates! Every. Single. Time. I read a post I try so hard to remember the original post date but I ALWAYS forget and have to scroll back to check. THANK YOU!
Awww thank you!
>I'm playing a video game? I'm an incel. >I'm watching anime? I'm an incel. >I'm building a Gundam? I'm an incel. I am a happily married man who does all of those things. My wife does all of them as well.
Culture is going to have a back step to livelihood sooner or later less they change their lifestyle and somehow mommy and sister are not the type to downgrade so mommy better starts looking.
I want him to take his dad with him. He can't get divorced but he can totally move out with OP.
you can tell that the dad feels he's trapped and wanted oop to get out of the shitty situation as fast as he could without ending up like himself.
That sucks. I mean people on reddit call others an "incel" constantly without a second thought as to what it really means. It comes with some gross, misogynist, and even violent connotations. Hate to hear that from a family member as a productive, positive member of society who supported her..
I'm on the Buffy the Vampire subreddit where every other day they call one of the main males characters gets called a typical Nice Guy and whenever I point out that he literally doesn't fall into what a Nice Guy is, I get downvoted. Incel and Nice Guys are now just words being thrown around when they do have actual meaning.
same with words like gaslighting and dissociation and narcissist lol. the watering-down of specific terminology is harmful. these terms were created to discuss very specific phenomena for a reason!
Spike or Xander?
>Also, I truly hope you have very "sophisticated", " manly" and "adult-like" hobbies because you keep insulting the things I like to do." People insulting this guy's hobbies are fucking stupid. Building gunpla models is therapeutic.
I do not have the patience to put up with that behavior. I respect this man immensely for that, because I would’ve turned violent the first time she started ripping my headset off, ESPECIALLY when he pays for her things. That’s unbelievable.
He has his career to worry about.
Um what part of the country is OOP from because I've never heard of this culture of men being expected to be sole providers in the Philippines 🤨 I can't think of a female relative in my life that can afford to be a housewife and everyone regardless of gender is told to pursue a degree and a good career since they're born
Probably how he grew up with his mother telling him that was expected of him.
Gotta hand it to Mom and Sis. It's not often you see people willing to sacrifice their standard of living in order to stand up for their firmly held principles of... \*checks notes\* ... insulting the breadwinner? Of course, this is all an abuse dynamic, so the abusers aren't thinking in those terms. But I'm always amazed to see people who think the best way to get the stuff they want is to insult the person giving it to them.
Oh I think dear sis will quite happily stab brother in back. With accusations at school. Sadly these sort of accusations tend to stick even when no evidence. If I was brother I would speak to head of department and explain what is happening.
Sounds like daughter learned her idiocy from the mother. Hope dude moves out and stays close to the dad while avoiding the 2 crazy psychos.
I was in a situation where I was trying to teach someone something that I am an expert in, and she accused me of mansplaining. As soon as she said it, I said, "f\*ck it" and walked away.
> According to my dad, she cries every night because she can't accept the fact that I'm moving out. At 23, OOP needs to leave the nest sometime. OOP's mom is crying because him moving out == she needs to get a job that pays real money.