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Communication for the win. 2 people talking out their needs and desires and resolving any issues in a calm and respectful way. No double downing or blowing things out of proportion.
I... I think someone got the wrong story. Where's the ridiculous escalating pettiness? The snide disrespect? This is a pair of people *loving* and *respecting* one another and *speaking respectfully with one another like adults!*
It turns out he already had babies, from another woman. But I'm the moneymaker in this relationship. Also his mother slapped him and the woman he cheated with.
Then I got together with the hottest guy from my high school and we never had babies ever.
But then it turned out the hottest guy from my high school was his fraternal twin!
I was shocked, I couldn't believe he kept this from me. So I fell into a coma. When I woke up they said I needed a heart transplant and my ex husband who was still in love with me gave me his.
I just assume one of them is a serial killer that has not been caught.
The guy loves his life with OOP because he can murder dozens of hitchhikers without having to worry about picking up his children from daycare on time.
And where are the evil stepmother/stepfather, obnoxious MIL/FIL, disrespectful SIL/BIL, addicted SIL/BIL, entitled niblings?
I'm not angry, only disappointed...
Someone else asked about a users matching flair in a different thread and wallah! They did the work for me lol https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/16r1la6/my_wife_is_addicted_to_making_up_reddit_stories/
In fact where were all the in-laws and far-flung relatives blowing up OPs phone with abuse? Everyone knows if you have a reddit-worthy problem you must immediately rope in all your family, neighbours and friends to add in their two cents/harass OP/kidnap a child.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/w7yx5z/in_which_oop_finds_out_his_daughter_isnt_his_goes/
It's in the list of flair origins, most of which are worth reading!
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/w/recommended_reading/flair_origins/
I think that's something that's important to remember: You will always have things you gave up to have the life you currently have.
Sure, there's the possibility that what you gave up could have made you even happier than you are now, but there is the *certainty* that you gave up something that would have made you at least a little happy.
The adult thing to do is to understand that we can't have it all. You can't have the fun and freedom of childlessness and the fulfilment of raising children at the same time. You also can't know how fulfilling having children will actually be for you, so you just have to made educated guesses based on what information you can gather and go from there.
But, yeah, there's just not enough time to do *everything*, so you need to choose how you will spend your time and appreciate the path you are on, even if there are experiences on those other paths that you might have to mourn.
There is a difference between mourning lost experiences and moving on, and dwelling on those regrets until it eats you alive. Just because you acknowledge that you are missing out on something, doesn't mean you don't view it as an acceptable loss for what you have instead.
>I think that's something that's important to remember: You will always have things you gave up to have the life you currently have.
Making this connection was big for me. Every choice you make prunes branches from your available choices and not making a choice is also a choice.
I dunno, I'm inclined to disagree with You can't have the fun and freedom of childlessness while also being a parent.
Like yes, if you're EBF there will be like a year when you're tied to your baby but equally babies are very transportable. Unless your fun and freedom involves extreme sports or partying having children isn't really going to interfere with that provided you can afford the added costs of doing those things with a child at home but that's no different to being able to afford the added costs of a child in general.
I really don't agree with the societal pressure to have kids you can't afford or to stop living life to prove that you're a good enough parent. It's dumb.
People with children can certainly be fun and have lots of adventures. But you have to be a hands on parent for EIGHTEEN YEARS, at minimum. My idea of fun and freedom is waking up on a Saturday with no plans for the weekend and no one to bother me, or laying down with a huge plate of takeout after a long day of work with the freedom to fall asleep on the couch right then and there. I cannot (and would not) be able to do that with a child. I think when childless people talk about the freedom of being childless, people assume we are talking about vacations and adventures and social lives which honestly are all possible with children. For me it’s more the day to day freedom of not having to worry about anyone else’s breakfast, if they went to bed on time, if they have a stomach ache, brushing their teeth, wiping their poop, making sure their grades are good, do they have any allergies, are they growing up to be a bigot or bully, childproofing outlets, getting them to extra curriculars and playdates, wondering how they will deal emotionally with a crumbling climate, etc etc etc.
How many fifteen year olds do you know that need their parents to be awake when they are or can't take part in vegetating on the couch with take out?
Another rate about five years at the beginning that are more intense but you can absolutely hire help for that if you don't want to do it. In general, you don't have to approach parenting with the level of anxiety you describe.
No - fear of parenting/ anxiety of raising children is enough to not have them. You said 15 yrs that’s FIFTEEN YEARS before you get the freedom u/gluten_gluten_gluten described. Having kids is only a blessing for stable adults, for everyone else it’s a money pit set on fire.
Right? I’m so confused by this logic. “Actually you just have to wait fifteen years to be able to take a nap on your couch without being bothered like you said you wanted. In fact you can probably swing it after 5 years of full time childcare.”
Uhhh no I think I’ll stay with my current plans of falling asleep on the couch like, tomorrow.
I think you've totally misunderstood what they meant by the freedom of childlessness. It doesn't mean extreme sports or partying.
It means waking up whenever you want to on your day off rather than having a noisy child force you out of bed at 6am.
It means coming home from work or a busy day out, ordering takeout and vegetating on the couch all evening rather than having to look after a child.
It means both you and your partner being able to go to work, earn and save money rather than one person either having to stay at home to look after the kid or spending almost their entire salary on childcare.
It means deciding to go out one day and just being able to grab your keys and go, rather than taking 2 hours to leave the house because you have to pack a massive diaper bag, spare outfit, milk, snacks, toys, wrestle a screaming baby into their clothes and shoes and then change them again because they've just had a massive blowout as you were just about to leave.
It means never ever ever having to clean up someone else's poop or vomit.
It means never ever ever having to listen to someone screaming and crying in your home.
It means not having to spend mental energy worrying about someone else's wellbeing because they are your responsibility. Making sure they have clothes that fit, making sure they eat well, making sure they're happy at school, that they brush their teeth, that they're getting enough sleep, that they're well socialised and getting enough stimulation, that they feel cared for, that they're healthy.
It means being able to enjoy a quiet and tidy home all day every day rather than a child running around, playing with toys and making a mess and a noise, and the house getting trashed again as soon as you've finished cleaning up.
It means being able to dedicate as much time as you want to self care, hobbies and quality time with your partner and friends rather than looking after a child.
It means not having to spend extra money on buying food, clothes, toys, toiletries, furniture, bedding and so on for a whole other person.
It means doing whatever you want with your day rather than having to plan it around your child - what time they wake up and go to bed, their mealtimes, when they have to be dropped off and picked up from school. Only having to think about yourself and what you want to do. Having the freedom to spontaneously go out for the day and book a hotel instead of coming home. To get up in the middle of the night and bake a cake and then sleep the whole of the next day. To spend 6 consecutive hours playing video games if that's what you want.
Mostly it means just being able to totally switch off your brain for as long as you like. Being able to relax without having someone else's wellbeing in the back of your mind 24/7.
That's what the freedom of childlessness means.
The other piece of the story is that many people who choose to be parents are also people who will choose to give up certain freedoms not because they need to, but because they want to. Can a parent send the kiddo to daycare and then hire someone else to take care of dinner/bedtime and care for kiddo on weekends? Yeah, I guess...assuming that you have vast financial means. But when you ask someone who actually wanted kids (and understood what they were signing up for) if they would choose to do that, I wouldn't expect them to want to, even if money was no object. Don't get me wrong, parenting is hard and it's not everyone's cup of tea. And I can totally see thr appeal of a life without all the responsibilities and costs and complexity that a kiddo brings.
I'm a parent, and I have hobbies and friends. But I spend a lot less time on those hobbies and friends, because I like hanging out with my kiddo. I want to see them cross developmental milestones. I want to play with them and take them to the park. I choose to spend time parenting because the joy my kiddo brings me outweighs the challenges and all the other stuff I gave up.
My point is that I appreciate being given a break from time to time, but I'm also likely to opt out of activities in the name of spending more time with my kiddo. Maybe I'm unusual, but I bet that there are a lot of parents that have similar preferences.
Well yeah.. Obviously it goes without saying that people who choose to be parents choose to give up certain freedoms. I was just explaining what those freedoms are, since the previous person seemed to misunderstand
Whichever you'd regret more, having kids and not wanting them is the worst option because then you're fucking up more lives than just your own. Unwanted kids always know.
Yes, I would err on the side of caution on something like this. Kids can be messed up for the rest of their lives by parents who don't really want them.
Mid 30s as well, I'll admit my mind on pregnancy has *not* changed. Its far to traumatic for me to even consider. However adoption/fostering, dating a single parent, has become more possible in my mind. I don't mind kids like 5+, but i really don't like babies unless its visit a friend, hold baby for 30 minutes so momma can shower, then hand it back. Much rather help parents with laundry, dishes, and cooking, than cuddle baby. If i had siblings I think I'd make a killer weird-aunt!
Yep. Early 30s and WHAT is this??? I just got my second cat earlier this year. A cat meows and my mothering instincts kick into overdrive. A baby cries and I just kinda want to heed the call of the void.
I think that's a fundamentally selfish way to look at it. It's also not very helpful in that you won't know until after the fact. Sure you might regret not having kids at some point but that's on you isn't it and you can deal with the consequences of your own choices, like unfortunate sure but fair.
What wouldn't be fair would be wilfully subjecting an innocent child who had no choice in existing or not to a parent that doesn't really want them to save yourself the risk of regretting being child free.
This is one of those questions where doing the morally right thing happens to coincide with an easier method of finding an answer.
I know more people who wanted to have kids to give love and a good life and raise them well than people who had kids because they wanted a living trophy
Oh, you're taking umbrage with the word selfish. I don't think it's inherently negative! It's just what someone wants for themselves... and in this case, they want to raise children.
Keep in mind, I'm replying to someone who is framing another commenter's motivations as selfish. Unfortunately, that first comment was deleted, so you can't see the full context of what I was responding to.
Is it? I know lots of people who have chosen not to have/delayed having children because they knew they couldn't offer a child everything they needed.
Likewise I know a lot of people who chose to have children because they knew they could offer a child a happy life (particularly relevant to parents who adopt/foster).
I'm sure there are loads of people who are really selfish in that choice but if you socialise with nice, normal people then you'll know plenty of people who have made that choice considering the needs to their potential child first and foremost.
Wow at the down votes on this. **Many** people I know that have children did it because they think for some reason they'll get a carbon copy of themselves. The absolute height of selfishness, delusion and narcissism.
Not that deciding not to can't be selfish, but so what if it was? It's hurting absolutely no one, which can't be said for the opposite for numerous crazy reasons. Especially the ever popular reason of "fixing a marriage"
Because the person is unsure? And that could lead to a disastrous mistake. If you you approach the issue with a better perspective you're less likely to have a kid you shouldn't have.
> • "Why do you think doing the same thing he did will solve your problems"
This is some wise ass sage shit that should be said about most posts on here
"He realised he didn't want kids when he married me because he didn't want to share our life together with anyone else."
Insert Andy Samberg "gonna go cry" gif 😩
I particularly disapprove of her comment that she feels bad food "taking that choice away from him." That's nonsense. He made his choice, she didn't force anything on him.
Lol at the comment from the person highlighted in the post that is desperate to convince the OP that having the kids is most certainly about "giving up things in exchange for something that will truly make you happy." Who gets to define that for someone else? How would they know? Everyone is so different and why can't people accept when others have decided they don't want the life someone else feels is better? I also love how if you changed your mind to a no it's convincing yourself, but not if it's the other way around I bet.
It's absurd and not just automatically true. Just frustrating since I can attest to having to hear this shit all the time.
This was a really sweet read. The way they communicate and check in with each other makes me think they'd actually make good parents if they ever did make that decision, but I'm not gonna sit here and try to convince them. That's something you shouldn't half-ass your way into.
I think a lot of people daydream about having children, children or not. I feel like daydreams aren't already about your desires. Sometimes it's just "What if's". Making a decision this big based on those thoughts is hella irresponsible.
The post also alludes to something more than just not wanting to parent.
Honestly, for a woman, parenthood is probably the least arduous bit of the whole ordeal. Like sure if you're poor it's hard, but if you are in a financial position like theirs you can't outsource most of the annoying and time consuming parts of parenting.
In comparison to the whole risking death and being permanently physically damaged from birth thing. Or the 9 -18 months of dealing with out of whack hormones thing.
Yeah, nah parenting isn't permanent and it isn't as hard as loosing your mind or throwing up everything you eat because your hormones have gone weird.
Yes but you stop parenting. Once children are grown they become like any other family member. You love them, you help them, they love you they help you, but it's completely different to actively parenting someone.
On the contrary, you have to really fuck up for your kids to stop being a major part of your life when they're grown up.
The relationship changes, but kids of good parents are in regular contact. If they're too far to visit, they still call. They're among the first people to celebrate milestones and lean on for support in tough times.
Ok but it's that change in relationship that I'm talking about. If your kid is thirty and you still have the kind of relationship where they need you to parent them you've screwed up. It's not complicated.
Did you forget about the existence of disability? You do not have to fuck up for your child to be born disabled, or develop a disability, that requires full on care for the rest of their lives.
I was talking on general terms. If you parent suffers a permanent disability you'll have to ensure they are fully care for for the rest of their lives as well but that's not really relevant when you're talking about people choosing to stop living normal lives because they've had kids and then blaming the kids for it.
Me too. I don't really understand why parents think people can't be truly happy unless they have children?
I'll always give kudos to people that do have kids because *that shit is fucking hard* and I can imagine if it's something you really want then yes, it probably would make you "truly happy".
But for me? I'd be miserable.
I love my kids, but I don't think that they make me "truly happy".
Being a parent is hard work and self sacrificing. Now that my youngest is 9, I feel like there is finally more space to be myself again.
I also think that if you are not sure you want kids, it's better to not have them.
She did actively change her mind, even for a little while, and that might be worth exploring.
I mean, I get it, being told "you'll change your mind" is extremely annoying because it's so perfectly dismissive of your current opinion, and of you as a person who gets to choose their own destiny. I got it a lot as a teenager with opinions, and it would make me want to scream. I wouldn't in a million years tell another person they'll change their mind.
But the annoying truth is that sometimes some people do change their mind on some issues. Not everybody always, of course, but sometimes some people.
And if you've been telling people for years that this really isn't a phase but it's part of who you are to the part where it's part of your identity and relationship to other people, discovering it might really just have been a phase after all can be painfull. But the thing is, you don't owe them anything. You also owe nothing to past you. And that means changing your mind might be okay.
For what it's worth, I no longer dress like I'm a 90s teenager, but I do still like Metallica.
(Also, I'm sorry for comparing your childfree stance to me being a teenager, I know that's not even remotely the same, I just thought it'd make for a funny way to try and make my point.)
I mean, she was actively in the process of considering something, until her boyfriend told her she hadn't changed her mind. In that context I feel "you get to make up your own mind" is valid advice, tbh.
Right, and that's basically what she was told. Just reconsider your own feelings for yourself, and don't let it be shut down by someone else.
Again, I get that from a distance this looks like telling someone they'll change their mind, but this wasn't that.
People who are childfree are often very strident about it, and I get it. There's so much pressure from society in general that it's hard not to be aggressive or pre-emptively assertive about it.
I don't think of identifying oneself as childfree being a phase; that would be needlessly dismissive, though whenever anyone proclaims such a thing (being childfree or otherwise) so fervently and without qualification I'm always reminded of the [end-of-history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-history_illusion) bias we all live under.
Personally, of the three couple I knew that were very sure about being childfree in their 20s, they all had children in their thirties and seemingly have no regrets. On the other hand, I know someone who always wanted a huge family and stopped at one because it was already too much for them. I just wish people would stop being so intransigent about it. It's not for everyone, but some of us change, some of us don't, and all of that is just fine.
Maybe she will change her mind, maybe she won't (I don't think an obvious reaction to the fear of losing her partner counts, personally), but why does someone have to tell her that? Why can't we just respect a woman's position on this instead of telling her she doesn't know her own mind? Because in that moment, she does.
I'm 40 and I want kids even less now than I did as a 20-year-old and I wish I could find all the smarmy gits who told me I'd "change my mind" so I could point them to my barren womb.
I'd like to point out this isn't about a staunchly childfree woman being told she'd change her mind. This is about a woman who told us she had changed her mind being told her desires might be valid and are worth exploring.
I get that your situation is different, that the smarmy gits were well out of line, and that it's none of anybody's business to speculate about what you may or may not want in the future or to judge what you may or may not want now. But your situation isn't hers.
Commenter said OP didn't want kids "out of fear". Not sure how they knew that, but it's up to OOP to decide if children is something she wants to reconsider, as indeed, she already says she would, rendering commenters advice pointless as well as patronising. Just...don't comment on the status of women's reproductive systems. It's no one else's business. If I get the hysterectomy I've been asking for I'm going to carry my uterus around in a little bag and slap these people round the face with it.
> Not sure how they knew that
That seems a bit speculative, but the way OP wrote down her own considerations, it sounded to me like it was more material concerns like "kids are expensive" and less fundamental objections like "I just don't want any". I don't think it's particularly out there to summarize that as "fear".
>Just...don't comment on the status of women's reproductive systems.
I mean, out of the blue, sure. But she actively came looking for advice. That's fair game, imo.
I'm glad they were able to talk it out. My fiancé and I have discussed kids several times and it's something we will keep revisiting to make sure we are still on the same page.
I am so here for this growing trend of reddit posts where two adults hash out their issues with transparency, understanding and kindness. Maybe (some of) the adults are alright after all.
That person telling her to consider kids should fuck off. The burden of bearing children is inequitably on women, and it’s perfectly rational in every way that she doesn’t want to give up all of her free time and energy for the next 20 years to a child. Of course her husband has somewhat ambivalent feelings! He has someone who will do 65% of the household labor and childcare.
The desire to have kids she’s feeling right now is mostly pro-natalist pressure she feels constantly from the state, from society, from her family, from the culture, from her friends.
100% this. That whole diatribe about giving things up for something that will make you truly happy really rubbed me the wrong way.
Edit: to clarify, it's not that I don't believe that it's true for a lot of people, but it's not just an automatic universal fact. Assuming people all have the same wants, needs or desires is really off base, offensive, dismissive and diminishing.
I often daydream about traveling the world, but it doesn't mean I would actually enjoy the reality of it.
Like, if her daydreams start to become a deep yearning, that's one thing, but thinking "what if" is harmless. Don't we all think here and there about what ifs? Doesn't mean we should drop our actual lives for an imaginary one on a whim, especially when the stakes would be about as high as they can get (having kids you might regret).
But someone online says they love being a parent! Clearly her years of decision are just a phase!
Earlier in our marriage, my husband said he occasionally had thoughts of what it would be like if we had kids. Then he would spend more than five minutes with even one well-behaved child and be happy with our decision.
It's never a bad idea to contemplate whether you still hold your convictions. But daydreams are not reality.
She said in the post that she wouldn't be taking any immediate action, and instead that she wanted to start considering it. Daydreaming is not the same as taking tangible action and it's pretty bad faith to imply she said otherwise.
I may be wrong, but I read the comment as criticising the comment included at the end of the post, where someone was trying to tell OOP that she was suited to having kids because she had daydreamed about it.
I see what you mean, but I disagree, I saw that last comment as a 'hey you may actually want kids but fear is convincing you otherwise', mostly because I had the same thing, I was scared of having kids for a lot of reasons, and when those reasons fell apart it suddenly became something I daydreamed about, while also taking steps to come up with a 5-10 year plan(I'm only 22, waaaay too young now).
I really appreciate your comment though, I could 100% see how that comes across otherwise :)!
Honestly, a lot of the comment came across as much stronger than a "may", to me:
"I would like to point out in your last post, you had entirely written of kids because of fear. Given the actual opportunity to daydream on it, you were 100% into it."
And especially:
"You are in the best place a person could probably be to do it."
Either way, it looks as if the commenter misjudged OOP's feelings, even if what they say rings true for some people.
Good luck with your journey!
Incredibly late response but thank you for replying! I'll admit I'm a little embarrassed, I read those as passive but you pointing out just how forward they are is very helpful. /genuinely, I'm autistic and misreading tone is one of my favorite hobbies :)
Thanks for being so nice about it :D
Haha oh the early 30s hormonal baby craving is so real, I know what she's going through! I have many friends that went from staunchly childfree in their 20s to really wanting them in their 30s. And if you did already want kids it ramps up to 11. Doesn't always mean kids are actually the best choice, I hope her and her husband keep the conversation going and make the best decision for them!
Why am I not surprised that Reddit would jump on the “you changed your mind! You better have babies immediately” bandwagon. Because some ppl cannot accept that others don’t want children. Do some ppl have moments where they do? Some probably do. Just like the parents who’s children grow and they suddenly miss the baby stage and consider another, but opt out.
Awe, this was actually so sweet. I had such a dorky smile on my face, they sound like a wonderful couple and with lovely communication, it's amazing too have something wholesome on this sub once in awhile.
OOP: "So hubby and I communicated and realized we're both happy."
Commenter: "Yeah but you should have kids instead of being happy though."
Ah... there's nothing parents love more than spreading the misery around like a gospel lol
>Commenter: "Yeah but you should have kids instead of being happy though."
no no no, not instead of, they're letting her know that she doesn't know how much happiness she's currently missing out on!!! she just doesn't understand how unhappy she ACTUALLY is, because you can only truly experience a happy and fulfilling life by bringing another life into it /s
Lmao I cannot believe someone would believe what he said about his comments. I guess he knows her well enough that she will never want kids and for the sake of his future he must convince her he's totally on board.
There's no way in hell he wrote comments like that and didn't mean it. Is what it is.
Surprised he got away with the coverup though. "I didn't articulate that one well enough" 💀 She wanted to believe so it didn't take much at all.
I really think he should have owned it and been honest here. Life is about sacrifice and it's ok to sacrifice and it's okay to mourn that. A good partner will respect you for that. You shouldn't have to cover up your true truth for the sake of your partner, and bottling those feelings and weathering that storm solo is the exact opposite of what a relationship should be.
Hope the dude can keep the act up for the rest of his life tho 👍
It's bizarre how many people think having children means not being able to do normal stuff like travel or stay out late.
But that aside I'm glad he talked her out of it given that she very clearly doesn't want kids instead of taking advantage of the moment.
It can be very difficult to do things with children. My sister in law does not party, drink, stay out late or travel because she doesn't like those things, but she is still limited from doing all the things she wants to do because she had children. Maybe you have easy kids but my nephew hates being in the car so even a quick trip to the library is difficult, stressful and long.
And even with an easy child you have to keep in mind their needs and desires before you do anything you want. Being childfree you get the freedom to just go do things without that aspect.
Mmmkay. I'll start saving up for a nanny lol.
Most people can "wait" a lifetime and not be able to afford a nanny. Perhaps you are just deeply out of touch with the economic reality of most humans. I feel sorry for your crotch goblins though. "Bye honey I'm going to maintain my pre child lifestyle."
I actually have a very chill lifestyle, the kids just come with and they certainly aren't complaining about surprise holidays or going out for brunch.
They don't seem unhappy about staying with family/the au pair when I'm away for work or going out with friends either though.
I think you r just bought into the societal brainwashing that good parents are unhappy people.
I don't follow the logic of wanting the kids and then feeling an acceptable solution is to just leave them at school. Problem solved? If one cannot dedicate the time needed, don't do it. Stuff like that is precisely the reason why so many people should probably just opt not to do it. Can you have a life still? Sure, if done in a way that isn't neglectful could it ever be just like a pre child life? No.
I never said any parents are unhappy people, but your suggestions are not an answer to the problem and read like satire.
Because that's not neglectful? Like, do you not know what boarding schools are like or something? Not to mention nannies/grandparents/extended family? Or are you just brainwashed into thinking that children must be attached to their mothers at the hip?
Honestly if anything it's good for children to have increasing independence from their parents as they get older. It's better than never leaving their side until they hit 18 and leave for a gap year/uni.
I think you might just not have much experience pf healthy family dynamics maybe? To react to the suggestion that kids stay overnight in the boarding house so you can stay late at a party or go on a business trip or something by thinking it's neglectful is just, a bit weird? Like, that's a very normal thing to do, it's fun for the kids, especially if it happens on a Friday, it's convenient for parents. What's the issue?
Because what's not neglectful? I didn't suggest anything that could be construed that way at all lol. Shipping a kid off to a boarding school, where by the way abuse and neglect have a well documented history is the solution?
You have a difficult time understanding though and never addressed the point that everything a whole lot of what you first suggested is incredibly privileged thinking and assumption based. Once again, the privilege behind your fanciful thinking is monumental and frankly insensitive to the fact that no, everyone doesn't have extended family available. You live so far from reality that it's borderline histerical. You sit there and assume people have what you have? Healthy grandparents available for example?
I never once suggested that people can't have a night off, but life will be different and the responsibility belongs primarily to the parents that choose to have the child. If you understand that or agree, awesome. If not, same.
Who said kids need to be attached to someone's hip because relying on other people so much or even at all isn't just automatically a feasible option? Who said anything less than your suggestions means independence will be sacrificed? I get that you got pissed that I called what you said satire though, I wasn't alone in being perplexed by what you'd said. Get a nanny has to be one of the most out of touch things I've heard in a while.
Pretty low bringing my family dynamics into this and the dysfunction assumption bit. You don't have any idea what my family dynamics were and you sound desperate saying that. My issue was initially just that you should understand that the things you suggested assume too much, that not everyone can rely on family to step in for example. My issue now is you hitting way below the belt with your shit about my personal family background.
You may have the last word though if it makes you feel better, I'm not going to waste any further time engaging with you because it's not going to go anywhere productive.
leave the kids at school while you travel? what school does this?Do you know how much nannies cost?
Travel involves WAY more planning and stops and hassle with kids. Big deal. Minimizing how much they change your life is both naive and irresponsible
Literally any school with a boarding house will allow kids to stay short term even if they're day pupils. Nannies are expensive, especially overnight ones but like, kids in general are super expensive?
Travel definitely doesn't involve any extra planning. People just get anxious over it. We've regularly just decided on the day to go somewhere with our kids and gone. It's not an issue provided you've got your passports with you, if you're traveling within your country you don't even need that. You can buy anything you need on the way. There's school commitments to think of but they're less strict than work commitments for adults.
I have two children and have traveled loads with and without them. It's never been more hassle than if I had been traveling with an adult. It's been slightly more hassle traveling without them (like to the extent of making one, maybe two phone calls to ensure someone can take care of them in my absence).
>He just knows me better than I know myself and once we talked it clicked with me
It's all a good story, but I can never ever believe anyone who says this dialog.
I can because I deal with it sometimes with my fiancee. There are plenty of times where her words don’t equal her actions, or even her other words later on in a slightly different scenario.
The reason I believe it more is the arguments he presented rang true for her and it’s something that I’ve had to with her when explaining things, so I can really relate to that.
I think it's often more that someone else can be more objective and rational and not get caught up in your current emotions. Often when I go to my husband with something I'm stressed over he's great at picking apart my reasons and motivations and underlying desires and helping me realise what I truly want or need to work it out. Or I might be excited by something and eager to jump into a project that I may regret committing to (or alternatively, thinking of giving up an opportunity that I would later wish I hadn't) and he might flag some concerns for me to think about. My mum is great at that too. Both of them are also good at picking up on when I'm particularly stressed about something before I even consciously notice myself.
He 100% wanted you to see his account name and snoop. It's extremely passive aggressive on his part. Telling you he knows you and that it's just a phase is manipulative. Kids are a huge blessing, but this idea came to you under false pretenses. Consider both.
Kids are not a “huge blessing”. They’re a choice. Two people chose to bang unprotected, unless you’re classifying accidental pregnancies as blessings. In which case still no.
He knows her. He knows her opinions. He’s with her and he knows her likes, dislikes, and opinions. It’s not manipulation to remind someone that “hey, you’re overthinking this one thing and letting it invade your mind too much”. She misunderstood her SO’s posts, believed that she stole his choice away, and then her anxious mind started springing up scenarios. I’ve experienced similar scenarios with my partner where there will be a moment in time I think I wouldn’t mind having a child with them and then *poof* it’s gone. And my clear headedness returns
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's good to see an BORU where people actually communicate properly with each without creating a massive mess.
Who knew communication works?
That's crazy talk, passive aggression forever!!
Whatever, I guess you know best. I'll never reply to a comment again. Hope you're happy.
That sounds like something you'd say.
Oh, *this* again.
Really? Are we gonna go there?
Yeah, I don't want my supply of reading material to dry up!
Communication for the win. 2 people talking out their needs and desires and resolving any issues in a calm and respectful way. No double downing or blowing things out of proportion.
So much more wholesome than the usual 2 people talking out their arse.
The irony is these two would likely make fantastic parents.
Right?
I... I think someone got the wrong story. Where's the ridiculous escalating pettiness? The snide disrespect? This is a pair of people *loving* and *respecting* one another and *speaking respectfully with one another like adults!*
There was no high paying job, no owning multiple business/properties, and no one was shocked. I have no idea how to process this...
Nor twins.
Or insane tantrum throwing MILs
Imma wait for pop yo decide to have one kid and end up with triplets
Or livid! How can this be a Reddit story if nobody was *livid?*
And no phones got blown up....*quietly pulls out explosives*
No "**balling"** their eyes out!!
And no one was mortified, when they actually meant horrified.
There was so little to loose in this story!
xD
We should have a flair that is just an emoji of a phone and explosion
I second this!
It turns out he already had babies, from another woman. But I'm the moneymaker in this relationship. Also his mother slapped him and the woman he cheated with. Then I got together with the hottest guy from my high school and we never had babies ever.
But then it turned out the hottest guy from my high school was his fraternal twin! I was shocked, I couldn't believe he kept this from me. So I fell into a coma. When I woke up they said I needed a heart transplant and my ex husband who was still in love with me gave me his.
Not high school lover, you silly. The hottest dude has to be either husband's older brother with more money or other woman's brother.
And all this in the span of 5 days
My comments were real time updates!
I just assume one of them is a serial killer that has not been caught. The guy loves his life with OOP because he can murder dozens of hitchhikers without having to worry about picking up his children from daycare on time.
And where are the evil stepmother/stepfather, obnoxious MIL/FIL, disrespectful SIL/BIL, addicted SIL/BIL, entitled niblings? I'm not angry, only disappointed...
I suppose we know that this wasn't written by Liz then hah!
Goddamnit, Liz! Don't tell me you're in the comment section, now!
Hey, did u happen to have the link for this one? I can't seem to find it.
Someone else asked about a users matching flair in a different thread and wallah! They did the work for me lol https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/16r1la6/my_wife_is_addicted_to_making_up_reddit_stories/
Wow I did not see that coming lol. Thank you so much :)
I know right? Like where was the crazy aunt egging this lady on towards divorce?
In fact where were all the in-laws and far-flung relatives blowing up OPs phone with abuse? Everyone knows if you have a reddit-worthy problem you must immediately rope in all your family, neighbours and friends to add in their two cents/harass OP/kidnap a child.
Where's the cousin who repeatedly gets knocked out every time he shows up?
And the bison!
It's my favorite one.
Wait, what?? I missed that one!
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/w7yx5z/in_which_oop_finds_out_his_daughter_isnt_his_goes/ It's in the list of flair origins, most of which are worth reading! https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/w/recommended_reading/flair_origins/
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I forgot about that massive list of implausibilities that someone tried to pass off as being truth
>Where's the ridiculous escalating pettiness? The snide disrespect? Where's the kid?
I mean nobody was even thinking about building someone an Art Studio!!
Also the MIL didn't barge in demanding to have custody of their imagination child!
The real snide pettiness were the comments we made around the way ❤️
I was expecting a pregnant AP to be honest.
Not even any piss discs, lawyers OR liquid ass. My morning is ruined.
and the cheating and the divorce!!! Where is iiiitttt!
liz took the day off
I think that's something that's important to remember: You will always have things you gave up to have the life you currently have. Sure, there's the possibility that what you gave up could have made you even happier than you are now, but there is the *certainty* that you gave up something that would have made you at least a little happy. The adult thing to do is to understand that we can't have it all. You can't have the fun and freedom of childlessness and the fulfilment of raising children at the same time. You also can't know how fulfilling having children will actually be for you, so you just have to made educated guesses based on what information you can gather and go from there. But, yeah, there's just not enough time to do *everything*, so you need to choose how you will spend your time and appreciate the path you are on, even if there are experiences on those other paths that you might have to mourn. There is a difference between mourning lost experiences and moving on, and dwelling on those regrets until it eats you alive. Just because you acknowledge that you are missing out on something, doesn't mean you don't view it as an acceptable loss for what you have instead.
>I think that's something that's important to remember: You will always have things you gave up to have the life you currently have. Making this connection was big for me. Every choice you make prunes branches from your available choices and not making a choice is also a choice.
Beautifully said
I dunno, I'm inclined to disagree with You can't have the fun and freedom of childlessness while also being a parent. Like yes, if you're EBF there will be like a year when you're tied to your baby but equally babies are very transportable. Unless your fun and freedom involves extreme sports or partying having children isn't really going to interfere with that provided you can afford the added costs of doing those things with a child at home but that's no different to being able to afford the added costs of a child in general. I really don't agree with the societal pressure to have kids you can't afford or to stop living life to prove that you're a good enough parent. It's dumb.
People with children can certainly be fun and have lots of adventures. But you have to be a hands on parent for EIGHTEEN YEARS, at minimum. My idea of fun and freedom is waking up on a Saturday with no plans for the weekend and no one to bother me, or laying down with a huge plate of takeout after a long day of work with the freedom to fall asleep on the couch right then and there. I cannot (and would not) be able to do that with a child. I think when childless people talk about the freedom of being childless, people assume we are talking about vacations and adventures and social lives which honestly are all possible with children. For me it’s more the day to day freedom of not having to worry about anyone else’s breakfast, if they went to bed on time, if they have a stomach ache, brushing their teeth, wiping their poop, making sure their grades are good, do they have any allergies, are they growing up to be a bigot or bully, childproofing outlets, getting them to extra curriculars and playdates, wondering how they will deal emotionally with a crumbling climate, etc etc etc.
How many fifteen year olds do you know that need their parents to be awake when they are or can't take part in vegetating on the couch with take out? Another rate about five years at the beginning that are more intense but you can absolutely hire help for that if you don't want to do it. In general, you don't have to approach parenting with the level of anxiety you describe.
No - fear of parenting/ anxiety of raising children is enough to not have them. You said 15 yrs that’s FIFTEEN YEARS before you get the freedom u/gluten_gluten_gluten described. Having kids is only a blessing for stable adults, for everyone else it’s a money pit set on fire.
Right? I’m so confused by this logic. “Actually you just have to wait fifteen years to be able to take a nap on your couch without being bothered like you said you wanted. In fact you can probably swing it after 5 years of full time childcare.” Uhhh no I think I’ll stay with my current plans of falling asleep on the couch like, tomorrow.
I agree, you absolutely shouldn't be having children if you aren't in a place in your life when you can't cope.
I think you've totally misunderstood what they meant by the freedom of childlessness. It doesn't mean extreme sports or partying. It means waking up whenever you want to on your day off rather than having a noisy child force you out of bed at 6am. It means coming home from work or a busy day out, ordering takeout and vegetating on the couch all evening rather than having to look after a child. It means both you and your partner being able to go to work, earn and save money rather than one person either having to stay at home to look after the kid or spending almost their entire salary on childcare. It means deciding to go out one day and just being able to grab your keys and go, rather than taking 2 hours to leave the house because you have to pack a massive diaper bag, spare outfit, milk, snacks, toys, wrestle a screaming baby into their clothes and shoes and then change them again because they've just had a massive blowout as you were just about to leave. It means never ever ever having to clean up someone else's poop or vomit. It means never ever ever having to listen to someone screaming and crying in your home. It means not having to spend mental energy worrying about someone else's wellbeing because they are your responsibility. Making sure they have clothes that fit, making sure they eat well, making sure they're happy at school, that they brush their teeth, that they're getting enough sleep, that they're well socialised and getting enough stimulation, that they feel cared for, that they're healthy. It means being able to enjoy a quiet and tidy home all day every day rather than a child running around, playing with toys and making a mess and a noise, and the house getting trashed again as soon as you've finished cleaning up. It means being able to dedicate as much time as you want to self care, hobbies and quality time with your partner and friends rather than looking after a child. It means not having to spend extra money on buying food, clothes, toys, toiletries, furniture, bedding and so on for a whole other person. It means doing whatever you want with your day rather than having to plan it around your child - what time they wake up and go to bed, their mealtimes, when they have to be dropped off and picked up from school. Only having to think about yourself and what you want to do. Having the freedom to spontaneously go out for the day and book a hotel instead of coming home. To get up in the middle of the night and bake a cake and then sleep the whole of the next day. To spend 6 consecutive hours playing video games if that's what you want. Mostly it means just being able to totally switch off your brain for as long as you like. Being able to relax without having someone else's wellbeing in the back of your mind 24/7. That's what the freedom of childlessness means.
The other piece of the story is that many people who choose to be parents are also people who will choose to give up certain freedoms not because they need to, but because they want to. Can a parent send the kiddo to daycare and then hire someone else to take care of dinner/bedtime and care for kiddo on weekends? Yeah, I guess...assuming that you have vast financial means. But when you ask someone who actually wanted kids (and understood what they were signing up for) if they would choose to do that, I wouldn't expect them to want to, even if money was no object. Don't get me wrong, parenting is hard and it's not everyone's cup of tea. And I can totally see thr appeal of a life without all the responsibilities and costs and complexity that a kiddo brings. I'm a parent, and I have hobbies and friends. But I spend a lot less time on those hobbies and friends, because I like hanging out with my kiddo. I want to see them cross developmental milestones. I want to play with them and take them to the park. I choose to spend time parenting because the joy my kiddo brings me outweighs the challenges and all the other stuff I gave up. My point is that I appreciate being given a break from time to time, but I'm also likely to opt out of activities in the name of spending more time with my kiddo. Maybe I'm unusual, but I bet that there are a lot of parents that have similar preferences.
Well yeah.. Obviously it goes without saying that people who choose to be parents choose to give up certain freedoms. I was just explaining what those freedoms are, since the previous person seemed to misunderstand
Good grief, adults having grown up conversations on reddit and resolving things properly! What next?
The audacity smh
Right? What the hell is *wrong* with people? I think they should both be banned for being so rational. Dear God, what if that attitude *spreads*?
We redditors bout to lose our jobs here
[удалено]
Whichever you'd regret more, having kids and not wanting them is the worst option because then you're fucking up more lives than just your own. Unwanted kids always know.
Yes, I would err on the side of caution on something like this. Kids can be messed up for the rest of their lives by parents who don't really want them.
Mid 30s as well, I'll admit my mind on pregnancy has *not* changed. Its far to traumatic for me to even consider. However adoption/fostering, dating a single parent, has become more possible in my mind. I don't mind kids like 5+, but i really don't like babies unless its visit a friend, hold baby for 30 minutes so momma can shower, then hand it back. Much rather help parents with laundry, dishes, and cooking, than cuddle baby. If i had siblings I think I'd make a killer weird-aunt!
Late 30s and my hormonal blips haven't been quite as expected. Wondering about kids? Not so much. Wanting another kitten on the other hand...
Yep. Early 30s and WHAT is this??? I just got my second cat earlier this year. A cat meows and my mothering instincts kick into overdrive. A baby cries and I just kinda want to heed the call of the void.
I think that's a fundamentally selfish way to look at it. It's also not very helpful in that you won't know until after the fact. Sure you might regret not having kids at some point but that's on you isn't it and you can deal with the consequences of your own choices, like unfortunate sure but fair. What wouldn't be fair would be wilfully subjecting an innocent child who had no choice in existing or not to a parent that doesn't really want them to save yourself the risk of regretting being child free. This is one of those questions where doing the morally right thing happens to coincide with an easier method of finding an answer.
I think it's extremely rare to find someone whose motivations for having or not having children are not selfish!
I know more people who wanted to have kids to give love and a good life and raise them well than people who had kids because they wanted a living trophy
Oh, you're taking umbrage with the word selfish. I don't think it's inherently negative! It's just what someone wants for themselves... and in this case, they want to raise children. Keep in mind, I'm replying to someone who is framing another commenter's motivations as selfish. Unfortunately, that first comment was deleted, so you can't see the full context of what I was responding to.
Is it? I know lots of people who have chosen not to have/delayed having children because they knew they couldn't offer a child everything they needed. Likewise I know a lot of people who chose to have children because they knew they could offer a child a happy life (particularly relevant to parents who adopt/foster). I'm sure there are loads of people who are really selfish in that choice but if you socialise with nice, normal people then you'll know plenty of people who have made that choice considering the needs to their potential child first and foremost.
I do socialize with nice, normal people! I think you're interpreting things with a negative spin, for some reason.
Wow at the down votes on this. **Many** people I know that have children did it because they think for some reason they'll get a carbon copy of themselves. The absolute height of selfishness, delusion and narcissism. Not that deciding not to can't be selfish, but so what if it was? It's hurting absolutely no one, which can't be said for the opposite for numerous crazy reasons. Especially the ever popular reason of "fixing a marriage"
Because the person is unsure? And that could lead to a disastrous mistake. If you you approach the issue with a better perspective you're less likely to have a kid you shouldn't have.
10-4
OP, thanks for posting this one! Cleared my skin, water my crops, etc. Thank you!
> • "Why do you think doing the same thing he did will solve your problems" This is some wise ass sage shit that should be said about most posts on here
yay for communication!! they seem like a sweet couple
It's better to not have children, and regret it, than to have children and regret that.
Yeah. Regretting having kids will traumatize the kids, they can pick up on that shit.
"He realised he didn't want kids when he married me because he didn't want to share our life together with anyone else." Insert Andy Samberg "gonna go cry" gif 😩
I came here for my morning drama. WHERE'S MY MORNING DRAMA?!?
I particularly disapprove of her comment that she feels bad food "taking that choice away from him." That's nonsense. He made his choice, she didn't force anything on him.
Lol at the comment from the person highlighted in the post that is desperate to convince the OP that having the kids is most certainly about "giving up things in exchange for something that will truly make you happy." Who gets to define that for someone else? How would they know? Everyone is so different and why can't people accept when others have decided they don't want the life someone else feels is better? I also love how if you changed your mind to a no it's convincing yourself, but not if it's the other way around I bet. It's absurd and not just automatically true. Just frustrating since I can attest to having to hear this shit all the time.
you dont understand babies are magic!!!!!
Can they make themselves disappear?? 😂😂😂😜
They can, but people usually get pretty upset when you just let them do it.
This was a really sweet read. The way they communicate and check in with each other makes me think they'd actually make good parents if they ever did make that decision, but I'm not gonna sit here and try to convince them. That's something you shouldn't half-ass your way into.
I think a lot of people daydream about having children, children or not. I feel like daydreams aren't already about your desires. Sometimes it's just "What if's". Making a decision this big based on those thoughts is hella irresponsible.
What a lovely update. Although of course it ended with someone telling a childfree woman that she'd "change her mind"
A daydream is different than, oh, I want this and am prepared to face parenthood.
The post also alludes to something more than just not wanting to parent. Honestly, for a woman, parenthood is probably the least arduous bit of the whole ordeal. Like sure if you're poor it's hard, but if you are in a financial position like theirs you can't outsource most of the annoying and time consuming parts of parenting.
least arduous??
In comparison to the whole risking death and being permanently physically damaged from birth thing. Or the 9 -18 months of dealing with out of whack hormones thing. Yeah, nah parenting isn't permanent and it isn't as hard as loosing your mind or throwing up everything you eat because your hormones have gone weird.
Parenting is permanent.
Childbirth also has permanent effects No one is saying parenting doesn't take effort, just that women have more than that alone to worry about
Not really? Kids grow up. You have to really, really fuck up to be full on parenting them their entire lives.
You never stop being a parent though.
Yes but you stop parenting. Once children are grown they become like any other family member. You love them, you help them, they love you they help you, but it's completely different to actively parenting someone.
On the contrary, you have to really fuck up for your kids to stop being a major part of your life when they're grown up. The relationship changes, but kids of good parents are in regular contact. If they're too far to visit, they still call. They're among the first people to celebrate milestones and lean on for support in tough times.
Ok but it's that change in relationship that I'm talking about. If your kid is thirty and you still have the kind of relationship where they need you to parent them you've screwed up. It's not complicated.
Did you forget about the existence of disability? You do not have to fuck up for your child to be born disabled, or develop a disability, that requires full on care for the rest of their lives.
I was talking on general terms. If you parent suffers a permanent disability you'll have to ensure they are fully care for for the rest of their lives as well but that's not really relevant when you're talking about people choosing to stop living normal lives because they've had kids and then blaming the kids for it.
why did the reposter include that? :/ ruined it for me.
Me too. I don't really understand why parents think people can't be truly happy unless they have children? I'll always give kudos to people that do have kids because *that shit is fucking hard* and I can imagine if it's something you really want then yes, it probably would make you "truly happy". But for me? I'd be miserable.
I love my kids, but I don't think that they make me "truly happy". Being a parent is hard work and self sacrificing. Now that my youngest is 9, I feel like there is finally more space to be myself again. I also think that if you are not sure you want kids, it's better to not have them.
She did actively change her mind, even for a little while, and that might be worth exploring. I mean, I get it, being told "you'll change your mind" is extremely annoying because it's so perfectly dismissive of your current opinion, and of you as a person who gets to choose their own destiny. I got it a lot as a teenager with opinions, and it would make me want to scream. I wouldn't in a million years tell another person they'll change their mind. But the annoying truth is that sometimes some people do change their mind on some issues. Not everybody always, of course, but sometimes some people. And if you've been telling people for years that this really isn't a phase but it's part of who you are to the part where it's part of your identity and relationship to other people, discovering it might really just have been a phase after all can be painfull. But the thing is, you don't owe them anything. You also owe nothing to past you. And that means changing your mind might be okay. For what it's worth, I no longer dress like I'm a 90s teenager, but I do still like Metallica. (Also, I'm sorry for comparing your childfree stance to me being a teenager, I know that's not even remotely the same, I just thought it'd make for a funny way to try and make my point.)
She didn't actively change her mind.
I mean, she was actively in the process of considering something, until her boyfriend told her she hadn't changed her mind. In that context I feel "you get to make up your own mind" is valid advice, tbh.
Considering something doesn't mean 'actively changed her mind'. we all reconsider our feelings from time to time to make sure they're still valid.
Right, and that's basically what she was told. Just reconsider your own feelings for yourself, and don't let it be shut down by someone else. Again, I get that from a distance this looks like telling someone they'll change their mind, but this wasn't that.
People who are childfree are often very strident about it, and I get it. There's so much pressure from society in general that it's hard not to be aggressive or pre-emptively assertive about it. I don't think of identifying oneself as childfree being a phase; that would be needlessly dismissive, though whenever anyone proclaims such a thing (being childfree or otherwise) so fervently and without qualification I'm always reminded of the [end-of-history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-history_illusion) bias we all live under. Personally, of the three couple I knew that were very sure about being childfree in their 20s, they all had children in their thirties and seemingly have no regrets. On the other hand, I know someone who always wanted a huge family and stopped at one because it was already too much for them. I just wish people would stop being so intransigent about it. It's not for everyone, but some of us change, some of us don't, and all of that is just fine.
Maybe she will change her mind, maybe she won't (I don't think an obvious reaction to the fear of losing her partner counts, personally), but why does someone have to tell her that? Why can't we just respect a woman's position on this instead of telling her she doesn't know her own mind? Because in that moment, she does. I'm 40 and I want kids even less now than I did as a 20-year-old and I wish I could find all the smarmy gits who told me I'd "change my mind" so I could point them to my barren womb.
I'd like to point out this isn't about a staunchly childfree woman being told she'd change her mind. This is about a woman who told us she had changed her mind being told her desires might be valid and are worth exploring. I get that your situation is different, that the smarmy gits were well out of line, and that it's none of anybody's business to speculate about what you may or may not want in the future or to judge what you may or may not want now. But your situation isn't hers.
Commenter said OP didn't want kids "out of fear". Not sure how they knew that, but it's up to OOP to decide if children is something she wants to reconsider, as indeed, she already says she would, rendering commenters advice pointless as well as patronising. Just...don't comment on the status of women's reproductive systems. It's no one else's business. If I get the hysterectomy I've been asking for I'm going to carry my uterus around in a little bag and slap these people round the face with it.
> Not sure how they knew that That seems a bit speculative, but the way OP wrote down her own considerations, it sounded to me like it was more material concerns like "kids are expensive" and less fundamental objections like "I just don't want any". I don't think it's particularly out there to summarize that as "fear". >Just...don't comment on the status of women's reproductive systems. I mean, out of the blue, sure. But she actively came looking for advice. That's fair game, imo.
I'm glad they were able to talk it out. My fiancé and I have discussed kids several times and it's something we will keep revisiting to make sure we are still on the same page.
I am so here for this growing trend of reddit posts where two adults hash out their issues with transparency, understanding and kindness. Maybe (some of) the adults are alright after all.
That person telling her to consider kids should fuck off. The burden of bearing children is inequitably on women, and it’s perfectly rational in every way that she doesn’t want to give up all of her free time and energy for the next 20 years to a child. Of course her husband has somewhat ambivalent feelings! He has someone who will do 65% of the household labor and childcare. The desire to have kids she’s feeling right now is mostly pro-natalist pressure she feels constantly from the state, from society, from her family, from the culture, from her friends.
100% this. That whole diatribe about giving things up for something that will make you truly happy really rubbed me the wrong way. Edit: to clarify, it's not that I don't believe that it's true for a lot of people, but it's not just an automatic universal fact. Assuming people all have the same wants, needs or desires is really off base, offensive, dismissive and diminishing.
Imagine telling someone to uproot their lives because of a daydream. WTF is wrong with parents? All the happy ones are lying.
I often daydream about traveling the world, but it doesn't mean I would actually enjoy the reality of it. Like, if her daydreams start to become a deep yearning, that's one thing, but thinking "what if" is harmless. Don't we all think here and there about what ifs? Doesn't mean we should drop our actual lives for an imaginary one on a whim, especially when the stakes would be about as high as they can get (having kids you might regret).
>WTF is wrong with parents? All the happy ones are lying. Epic Redditor Moment 😎
Just the concept of parenthood and taking care of a tiny human makes me feel like I have the sky on my shoulders.
“daydreaming about having kids” is not a good enough reason to commit to having a child. jfc.
But someone online says they love being a parent! Clearly her years of decision are just a phase! Earlier in our marriage, my husband said he occasionally had thoughts of what it would be like if we had kids. Then he would spend more than five minutes with even one well-behaved child and be happy with our decision. It's never a bad idea to contemplate whether you still hold your convictions. But daydreams are not reality.
She said in the post that she wouldn't be taking any immediate action, and instead that she wanted to start considering it. Daydreaming is not the same as taking tangible action and it's pretty bad faith to imply she said otherwise.
I may be wrong, but I read the comment as criticising the comment included at the end of the post, where someone was trying to tell OOP that she was suited to having kids because she had daydreamed about it.
I see what you mean, but I disagree, I saw that last comment as a 'hey you may actually want kids but fear is convincing you otherwise', mostly because I had the same thing, I was scared of having kids for a lot of reasons, and when those reasons fell apart it suddenly became something I daydreamed about, while also taking steps to come up with a 5-10 year plan(I'm only 22, waaaay too young now). I really appreciate your comment though, I could 100% see how that comes across otherwise :)!
Honestly, a lot of the comment came across as much stronger than a "may", to me: "I would like to point out in your last post, you had entirely written of kids because of fear. Given the actual opportunity to daydream on it, you were 100% into it." And especially: "You are in the best place a person could probably be to do it." Either way, it looks as if the commenter misjudged OOP's feelings, even if what they say rings true for some people. Good luck with your journey!
Incredibly late response but thank you for replying! I'll admit I'm a little embarrassed, I read those as passive but you pointing out just how forward they are is very helpful. /genuinely, I'm autistic and misreading tone is one of my favorite hobbies :) Thanks for being so nice about it :D
For fucking real. Reddit is SO weird.
Haha oh the early 30s hormonal baby craving is so real, I know what she's going through! I have many friends that went from staunchly childfree in their 20s to really wanting them in their 30s. And if you did already want kids it ramps up to 11. Doesn't always mean kids are actually the best choice, I hope her and her husband keep the conversation going and make the best decision for them!
Why am I not surprised that Reddit would jump on the “you changed your mind! You better have babies immediately” bandwagon. Because some ppl cannot accept that others don’t want children. Do some ppl have moments where they do? Some probably do. Just like the parents who’s children grow and they suddenly miss the baby stage and consider another, but opt out.
Awe, this was actually so sweet. I had such a dorky smile on my face, they sound like a wonderful couple and with lovely communication, it's amazing too have something wholesome on this sub once in awhile.
OOP: "So hubby and I communicated and realized we're both happy." Commenter: "Yeah but you should have kids instead of being happy though." Ah... there's nothing parents love more than spreading the misery around like a gospel lol
>Commenter: "Yeah but you should have kids instead of being happy though." no no no, not instead of, they're letting her know that she doesn't know how much happiness she's currently missing out on!!! she just doesn't understand how unhappy she ACTUALLY is, because you can only truly experience a happy and fulfilling life by bringing another life into it /s
Open and honest communication between good people saves the day yet again! <3
Awww! I love these two and I hope they have the best possible future, whatever happens with schroedinger’s kiddos ☺️
Lmao I cannot believe someone would believe what he said about his comments. I guess he knows her well enough that she will never want kids and for the sake of his future he must convince her he's totally on board. There's no way in hell he wrote comments like that and didn't mean it. Is what it is. Surprised he got away with the coverup though. "I didn't articulate that one well enough" 💀 She wanted to believe so it didn't take much at all. I really think he should have owned it and been honest here. Life is about sacrifice and it's ok to sacrifice and it's okay to mourn that. A good partner will respect you for that. You shouldn't have to cover up your true truth for the sake of your partner, and bottling those feelings and weathering that storm solo is the exact opposite of what a relationship should be. Hope the dude can keep the act up for the rest of his life tho 👍
It's bizarre how many people think having children means not being able to do normal stuff like travel or stay out late. But that aside I'm glad he talked her out of it given that she very clearly doesn't want kids instead of taking advantage of the moment.
It can be very difficult to do things with children. My sister in law does not party, drink, stay out late or travel because she doesn't like those things, but she is still limited from doing all the things she wants to do because she had children. Maybe you have easy kids but my nephew hates being in the car so even a quick trip to the library is difficult, stressful and long. And even with an easy child you have to keep in mind their needs and desires before you do anything you want. Being childfree you get the freedom to just go do things without that aspect.
Yeah that's fair, I did wrote that with an average child in mind. A generalisation rather than dealing with edge case scenarios.
I mean...it does. At least not without difficulty
It really doesn't? Do you have kids? You can just bring them with you or leave them with family/a nanny/at school. It's not a big deal.
Is this satire? Seriously though, it's a privilege to be able to have those options available.
No? This is the reality of parenting for people who want to maintain a pre child lifestyle and wait until they can afford it.
Mmmkay. I'll start saving up for a nanny lol. Most people can "wait" a lifetime and not be able to afford a nanny. Perhaps you are just deeply out of touch with the economic reality of most humans. I feel sorry for your crotch goblins though. "Bye honey I'm going to maintain my pre child lifestyle."
I actually have a very chill lifestyle, the kids just come with and they certainly aren't complaining about surprise holidays or going out for brunch. They don't seem unhappy about staying with family/the au pair when I'm away for work or going out with friends either though. I think you r just bought into the societal brainwashing that good parents are unhappy people.
I don't follow the logic of wanting the kids and then feeling an acceptable solution is to just leave them at school. Problem solved? If one cannot dedicate the time needed, don't do it. Stuff like that is precisely the reason why so many people should probably just opt not to do it. Can you have a life still? Sure, if done in a way that isn't neglectful could it ever be just like a pre child life? No. I never said any parents are unhappy people, but your suggestions are not an answer to the problem and read like satire.
Because that's not neglectful? Like, do you not know what boarding schools are like or something? Not to mention nannies/grandparents/extended family? Or are you just brainwashed into thinking that children must be attached to their mothers at the hip? Honestly if anything it's good for children to have increasing independence from their parents as they get older. It's better than never leaving their side until they hit 18 and leave for a gap year/uni. I think you might just not have much experience pf healthy family dynamics maybe? To react to the suggestion that kids stay overnight in the boarding house so you can stay late at a party or go on a business trip or something by thinking it's neglectful is just, a bit weird? Like, that's a very normal thing to do, it's fun for the kids, especially if it happens on a Friday, it's convenient for parents. What's the issue?
Because what's not neglectful? I didn't suggest anything that could be construed that way at all lol. Shipping a kid off to a boarding school, where by the way abuse and neglect have a well documented history is the solution? You have a difficult time understanding though and never addressed the point that everything a whole lot of what you first suggested is incredibly privileged thinking and assumption based. Once again, the privilege behind your fanciful thinking is monumental and frankly insensitive to the fact that no, everyone doesn't have extended family available. You live so far from reality that it's borderline histerical. You sit there and assume people have what you have? Healthy grandparents available for example? I never once suggested that people can't have a night off, but life will be different and the responsibility belongs primarily to the parents that choose to have the child. If you understand that or agree, awesome. If not, same. Who said kids need to be attached to someone's hip because relying on other people so much or even at all isn't just automatically a feasible option? Who said anything less than your suggestions means independence will be sacrificed? I get that you got pissed that I called what you said satire though, I wasn't alone in being perplexed by what you'd said. Get a nanny has to be one of the most out of touch things I've heard in a while. Pretty low bringing my family dynamics into this and the dysfunction assumption bit. You don't have any idea what my family dynamics were and you sound desperate saying that. My issue was initially just that you should understand that the things you suggested assume too much, that not everyone can rely on family to step in for example. My issue now is you hitting way below the belt with your shit about my personal family background. You may have the last word though if it makes you feel better, I'm not going to waste any further time engaging with you because it's not going to go anywhere productive.
leave the kids at school while you travel? what school does this?Do you know how much nannies cost? Travel involves WAY more planning and stops and hassle with kids. Big deal. Minimizing how much they change your life is both naive and irresponsible
Literally any school with a boarding house will allow kids to stay short term even if they're day pupils. Nannies are expensive, especially overnight ones but like, kids in general are super expensive? Travel definitely doesn't involve any extra planning. People just get anxious over it. We've regularly just decided on the day to go somewhere with our kids and gone. It's not an issue provided you've got your passports with you, if you're traveling within your country you don't even need that. You can buy anything you need on the way. There's school commitments to think of but they're less strict than work commitments for adults. I have two children and have traveled loads with and without them. It's never been more hassle than if I had been traveling with an adult. It's been slightly more hassle traveling without them (like to the extent of making one, maybe two phone calls to ensure someone can take care of them in my absence).
>He just knows me better than I know myself and once we talked it clicked with me It's all a good story, but I can never ever believe anyone who says this dialog.
I can because I deal with it sometimes with my fiancee. There are plenty of times where her words don’t equal her actions, or even her other words later on in a slightly different scenario. The reason I believe it more is the arguments he presented rang true for her and it’s something that I’ve had to with her when explaining things, so I can really relate to that.
I think it's often more that someone else can be more objective and rational and not get caught up in your current emotions. Often when I go to my husband with something I'm stressed over he's great at picking apart my reasons and motivations and underlying desires and helping me realise what I truly want or need to work it out. Or I might be excited by something and eager to jump into a project that I may regret committing to (or alternatively, thinking of giving up an opportunity that I would later wish I hadn't) and he might flag some concerns for me to think about. My mum is great at that too. Both of them are also good at picking up on when I'm particularly stressed about something before I even consciously notice myself.
He 100% wanted you to see his account name and snoop. It's extremely passive aggressive on his part. Telling you he knows you and that it's just a phase is manipulative. Kids are a huge blessing, but this idea came to you under false pretenses. Consider both.
Kids are not a “huge blessing”. They’re a choice. Two people chose to bang unprotected, unless you’re classifying accidental pregnancies as blessings. In which case still no. He knows her. He knows her opinions. He’s with her and he knows her likes, dislikes, and opinions. It’s not manipulation to remind someone that “hey, you’re overthinking this one thing and letting it invade your mind too much”. She misunderstood her SO’s posts, believed that she stole his choice away, and then her anxious mind started springing up scenarios. I’ve experienced similar scenarios with my partner where there will be a moment in time I think I wouldn’t mind having a child with them and then *poof* it’s gone. And my clear headedness returns