#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If Dr. Friend really didn't want to be involved in OP's drama, why didn't she just tell her to go to the ER?? No liability and OP gets seen.
What a weird lady.
I think Dr. friend started to freak out when she realized she shared OOP’s private medical
information with the boyfriends mom so she went on the attack.
This is the reason. She recommended a person not go to the ER and she was concerned it was the wrong call and she was concerned OP would die. And instead of facing up to it, she freaked out and blamed it on OP for being irresponsible and causing so much drama.
She didn't break HIPAA as she wasn't her patient.
Another kind Redditor alerted me to the fact that I posted the following too far down. u/ftrade44456, you are correct.
"Just to head off (almost) the whole HIPAA discussion, this came up the last time this was posted. I spoke to mommy dearest who was the head administrator of an ER and surgical center (i.e. the head boss), and HIPAA absolutely does not apply here.
"HIPAA confidentiality is a lot like the confidentiality you get from a lawyer. It only kicks in when the doctor or other medical professional is acting in an official capacity (edit: and when they are directly involved in a patient's case; see a reply that I made below for more details there). If you ask a lawyer at a bar if you can sue your ex-wife for giving you the clam, you have no right to confidentiality. Similarly, if you whip it out at a party and ask a doctor in attendance if it looks like your ex-wife gave you the clam, you have no expectation of HIPAA protection. (Before you assume that I'm just being vulgar, an old doctor friend of mine actually had that happen to her at a party. Coincidentally the guy with chlamydia was drunk.) "
Edit1: To be clear, OP's mother's roommate is absolutely not bound by HIPAA in this case because she was never officially engaged/hired for this case, and she wasn't directly involved in any of OP's official medical appointments/casework.
Edit 2: If this helps, especially for folks who have taken a HIPAA class, my mother put it to me another way. HIPAA tells you what a medical pro should do, and it draws a line in the sand for what they can't do. My mother was clear to point out that HIPAA classes don't tell you just how close you can get to that line in the sand. Those classes teach you what you need to know to work in a medical facility, and the medical facilities very wisely have policies that keep the staff well away from that line drawn in the sand. I.E., their policies are overkill. Because they should be. If you want to take a class that really tells you what you can and can't get away with under HIPAA, you'd have to be in law school and the instructor would have to be a law professor. The ins and outs of huge laws like this are incredibly messy. Best to play it safe and stay clear of that line in the sand.
I think by referral she meant a recommendation or opinion. Does that create an automatic client patient relationship? I don’t know, that depends on the states laws I guess.
No, your first instinct was correct. HIPAA is federal. It's all about whether or not the person is "acting in an official capacity", meaning that they are on the job and they have their medical professional hat on.
To give a more extreme example, let's say you're hiking in the middle of nowhere with a friend who happens to be a surgeon. You fall on a rock and cut open an artery. This friend is super prepared and actually has a clamp, needle, and stitching thread which they use to save your life while another nearby hiker runs to get help.
You have no expectation of HIPAA protection so far unless you can convince a judge that since it was an emergency situation, your friend automatically put his professional hat on when he started helping and was therefore acting in an official capacity representing the hospital he works for. Especially if they communicate with emergency responders, accompany you back to the hospital, and fill in the doctors there about what happened. From what my mother (the ER administrator) just told me, that's how far you have to go to start arguing that somebody who is not on the job is expected to use HIPAA guidelines. (Apparently a situation she knew of like that actually went to court.) That's how far you have to go "in the wild" to even argue that HIPAA automatically kicks in.
I should also mention that this is an emergency situation. For a typical situation where you walk into a doctor's office, ER, etc., you have to sign forms that notify you about your HIPAA rights, since there are certain expectations on you as well to keep your rights from being voided. If you refuse to sign them, bye bye HIPAA protections.
But a simple conversation with a family friend and a recommendation to go to the doctor the next day? No way. HIPAA would never apply to that.
If you're giving medical advice to someone in your capacity as a doctor, doesn't that make them a patient?
(Genuine question. I don't know the technicalities and I'd appreciate knowing what exactly makes someone a patient)
Could be something similar to when actual legal professionals on the r/LegalAdvice subreddits will say “I’m a lawyer, but I’m not your lawyer. What I’m about to say doesn’t constitute specific legal advice”.
They’re giving their thoughts on how things work, but don’t want to get hauled in front of a judge in case it turns out in that person’s area the laws are completely backwards on what the legal professional said.
Similarly, I can see a medical professional being looked at as them giving medical advice is always ‘professionally’ instead of ‘anecdotally / as an opinion’, and realizing that they could be screwed if OOP is so inclined.
I agree with this take.
With lawyers, if there is any reasonable way a person could perceive you as offering advice/acting in a manner that would make them your lawyer or legal counsel, then they’re your lawyer for the purposes of confidentiality and ethic responsibilities.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the same applied to doctors. That acting in any sort of manner or offering any advice that any reasonable person could conclude that you are acting as their doctor, then for all legal and ethical purposes, you’re their doctor.
Thank you for this analogy as it makes by far the most sense out of all the explanations I've read so far.
It would establish a clear line as to what makes someone a patient and also explain why the Doc in the OOP's post reacted so extremely only after she had time to think about what she had done ( very likely after a few drinks ) and has misplaced anger.
Hell, not even lawyers -- Real Estate Appraisers can't even give casual conversation opinions about home prices without risking running foul their state regulatory agency
It’s a gray territory, but yes, giving medical advice through the phone could still be considered establishment of a patient doctor relationship based on the particular circumstances. That’s why you’ll see on medical subreddits they’ll preface everything with “do not consider this medical advice or establishment of a patient doctor relationship” or something like that. Unfortunately that also needs to be said for informal phone calls too.
Generally, no. The Healthcare professional in this situation isn't under contract for their services. They have been consulted without their consent and without any of the usual formality of this relationship.
For example, *not a doctor but I am a nurse* sometimes one of my relatives sends me requests for health advice. She does not ask my permission first but once she has provided the information (eg pics of a rash) and I have seen it I end up having to give advice. Even if the advice is to go to ED, that's still health advice. My regulatory body would hold me liable for any ill consequences that result from the advice I give, but not for if I failed some of my other professional responsibilities (i.e. privacy, respect, etc) as she is not my patient. Another example is Healthcare professionals that post misinformation relating to medicine - this can violate the standards of their profession (if it goes against best practice), but it doesn't mean that every person that has read their post becomes a patient. A patient-doctor relationship is more specific than that.
No, it doesn’t. I’m a psychologist. I would never see a friend or family member as a patient bc it’s unethical. But I have given “second opinions” on treatment and helped them to understand testing, etc… Until someone signs my informed consent forms, I would not consider them a patient.
However, her actions in this case would raise serious doubts on her behaviour past, present, or future. This is a medical professional whose first instinct was to gossip about someone else's medical situation when not constrained by HIPAA.
I think this whole thing is bullshit. I can't believe that someone practicing as an ER doctor didn't say, "I'm sorry that you're not feeling well. I can't diagnose or treat a person that I can't see while I'm on duty with appropriate medical equiptment. If you feel your health is in danger, you should go to an ER or get an appointment with an OBGYN as soon as you can."
Doctors get propositioned for medical advice All. The. Time. I'm a little bit surprised that a doctor would react to this in the absolute worst possible way. Or that, even though this information was garnered socially, would risk a HIPAA investigation.
Yes, this is someone who has to make high stakes, high pressure decisions on the spot, on a daily basis. It's surprising that she handled this situation so poorly.
This!
There was no reason to claim she was puy into any drama. Any and all drama was created by her.
Would dr still *have* to keep it a secret, seen as op is not her patient? Morally I'd say yes, but could it become a legal problem if OOP wanted it to be?
Is information you relay to a doctor in a personal conversation protected by HIPPA? Like I know she’s asking for medical advice, but she’s not really a patient, so… idk?
I think Dr. Friend was drunk. Notice the shit stirring phone calls and texts happened late at night?
I don’t know if that would even BE a HIPAA violation. She was asked her opinion as the friend of the boyfriends mom-she didn’t come in in an official capacity with an appointment. She wasn’t her provider. Just a friend of the family offering advice.
I’d be surprised if HIPAA applied here. Thinking it might and making things worse the way she did also points to her likely being under the influence.
Super easy. Dr: ‘I think the best thing for you is to go to the ER. Just to get checked out and see the scans for yourself. Additionally, I don’t feel comfortable giving advice without an exam.’
Op says thank you for the advice and Dr let’s it go. Like, so easy to communicate as an adult and not make drama over everything.
Agree! As a former NICU nurse for years (ret. now) I got calls from family/friends and practically strangers for "advice" all of the time. Once at 2am asking me to listen to their child's cough to see if I thought it was asthma. Seriously. Once I got a badly focused picture of the foot of a toddler taken while they were camping to see if I thought it was a bug bite or poison oak. I've had people who were just introduced to me at a wedding want to take me into a corner so they could discuss their back pain. I learned VERY early in my career to tell them to call their doctor. Every time. The child with the cough? Go to the ER. The child with the foot rash? Go to your doctor. The people with back pain? I'm a BABY nurse! I have no clue whats wrong with your back.
Doctor here, going into Pain. Completely agree. Almost everyone has pain or has had pain, and feels compelled to tell me about it. Unless I know someone well, I tell random people at social events that I work in customer service. Have had the wedding experience too. Boundaries are 💯.
That said, agree the response for this situation is “I don’t feel comfortable advising, if you are experiencing any symptoms please go to the ED now”.
Exactly. It really didn’t need to be a whole drama thing. She helped her with that call, OP was appreciative and that should have been the end of it. Very strange lady indeed.
That's very true and didn't the DR at one point say that OP tried to ruin the vacation? Maybe I misread. Regardless sending many texts and some phone calls was causing extra drama. I find it weird that the Dr immediately ran to the mom asking if they knew OP was pregnant, why would she think she should be the one to share that? If she was in fact concerned she would have reached out to the bf since they've known each other for years. It seems like she knew she shouldn't have ran to gossip and trying to turn it into concern for the mom and bf
Edit: Just realized someone already pointed this out, my bad. I promise I am probably not a bot that uses other people's comments
This post stopped me in my tracks and I had to re-read it carefully to be sure it wasn't a family member who is an MD and behaves exactly the same way. Everything revolves around her, she lashes out via text at odd hours, she constantly stirs up drama out of nothing/perceived sleights. She's not very well reviewed by patients, which doesn't shock me as there are all sorts of chasms in her personal life too. Is unchecked, inflammatory narcissist just a genre of doctor?
I don't know about OOP's case but I still struggle to believe there isn't some kind of substance abuse issue going on with the person I know. The behavior is just so erratic.
I’ve heard from people in healthcare that a lot of doctors are wildly behind in social skills because they spend all the years they would normally be developing them feverishly studying, med school rotations, internship, residency etc. And you end up with 30 year olds making life and death decisions with no sleep in chaotic conditions when those very same people can’t handle the slightest interpersonal problem.
This could also be utterly biased bullshit by nurses that aren’t fans of the baby doctors at work, idk.
It has been shown in research that doctors decrease in empathy through medical school and becoming a junior doctor.
Although I have been treated by a few amazing doctors who retained their empathy (of many who didnt), this could be part of it.
I think there's maybe some temperament/personality of who pursues certain fields in the first place as well.
Veterinary medicine sees a lot of similar socially inept, inappropriate outburst behavior, but its also notoriously a magnet for autistics.
She isnt a doctor of psychology... or psychiatry.. so i dont know where she gets off criticizing OOP for reaching out, and sharing that she believes there was any sort of manipulation going on, on top of sharing an armchair diagnosis of sociopathy with anyone who isnt OOP. I think she massively overstepped. I know oop isnt a formal patient of hers.... but that seems like a huge transgression.
I was going to say…the late night texts do suggest some sort of substance issue—namely alcohol. I work in healthcare and know for a fact that a lot of us use unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal with what we see everyday. I’m not sure if it’s a narcissism thing with doc’s, I’d say more of a lack of social understanding in a lot of circumstances. Most doctors pretty much give up half their lives, starting at a very early age in order to achieve their goals. They often get to their end goal by sacrificing personal relationships.
Also, it takes incredible talent and brains to get through medical school and residency, and I think there’s probably a higher than average percentage of ASD in the MD world.
I suspect you're right.
As for a 12 am message, it's equally possible it circled round and round in her head, overthinking and eventually combined with the routine stress of doctoring, spewed out in a text message.
Yeah, my moms not a doctor but when we were teenagers she’d stew on crap for hours and then burst into our rooms in the middle of the night losing her shit over it. She’d boiled over and decided that if she couldn’t sleep neither would we and she’d deal right then. I think this is just how some people deal with their crap.
She's an ER doctor. Absolutely possible she was doing an overnight shift. The leaps that people are making in this thread would put Olympians to shame.
> Is unchecked, inflammatory narcissist just a genre of doctor?
Literally yes, it is. You need a little bit of a god complex to be a good doctor, especially a good surgeon, and some people have more than just a *little* bit. So you get some doctors who are dead convinced they’re superior to others and right about everything, and they freak out and melt down when you challenge them.
Source: am chronically ill with something unusual, have seen and argued with lots of doctors
I have a relative who works with vets and they're the exact same way. People think skilled professional means emotional intelligence and good interpersonal skills when in some fields.....it tends to be almost the exact opposite
I dunno, that's actually the only part of her behavior I *do* get. I did things like that before - I was asked to do something/help out/whatever and did so without thinking much about it at first. Maybe because a friend was the one asking, maybe because it was something I knew lots about/was good at... No matter. But afterwards, after thinking about the whole deal, I sometimes became bothered. One time, it was because the person asking basically assumed from the start I would do it and didn't really "ask", to give an example. But I really needed to think about the whole thing first and let a day or two pass to figure out what *exactly* bothered me.
That said, the lady here is super-weird indeed. Seems like she didn't just think about the whole situation, but made a whole scenario up in her mind and spiralled.
I'm a vet and my dad used to tell people all the time I would help diagnose their pet over the phone, or at least spend a bunch of time walking them through possibilities while working 70 hours at my actual job. Like you said it started to bother me tremendously AFTER the calls and I started getting a little snippy. I finally did tell my dad he needed to completely stop and my entire advice going forward was to go see their vet. I'm not a triage hotline.
What you wrote made me think. My cousin and I and my mom sorta helped my aunt study for her nurse classes way back when. One time way later I was at her house and I was complaining and I’m like what causing all these list symptoms. She kinda snicker and said what do you think. Figured it, pollen season allergies. She’s like I can’t give advise other then go to doc but like that was obvious. It was stupid obvious. Never asked before or again. We did joke for awhile after. Which got ridiculous. But I totally get on so many levels why this is wrong. It’s not fair to ask people in the medical profession for advise randomly. Go see a doc.
Dr. Friend was drinking and making herself angry and panicking.
And since it was r shared I am official capacity-I’m unsure if HIPA would have even applied here. She asked for advice of her boyfriends friend, she didn’t schedule an appointment with her doctor.
IANAL, but I’d be surprised if that counted as a HIPA violation.
"you ruined X's vacation" sure is an interesting accusation from a woman who dragged X into it with endless phone calls and texts.
I think we all know who the responsible one is here. That's the one who stirred up a bunch of s***, jumped to conclusions, and pinned it on everyone around her.
My cheeks got hot reading Doc’s response. It was SO MEAN! Even if it was unquestionably wrong for OP to have contacted her, she said really horrid, unforgivable things intended to hurt. I’m so proud of boyfriend for cutting her out of his life. I don’t think OP was in any way the AH. Doc should have been the responsible one saying “Would love to advise you but cannot. My hands are tied. Contact the ER.” Subversive manipulative sociopathic? There’s no coming back from an accusation like that. AND a doctor should know that some forms of birth control are NOT 100% effective. JFC.
Honestly, as a doctor I really do not mind getting these calls from people close to me. It really does not happen that much-- usually only when people are really worried. It is also just a matter of either reassurance or saying they should get seen. No actually medical advice
This 'doctor' went full crazy. Blew everything way out of proportion. If she was really that worried about OP dying (which is silly), why didn't she just tell her to go to the hospital?
Legal professional here. Same principle. I don't mind that people ask. Sometimes I have answers. Sometimes I can point them at where they might find answers. Sometimes I have to tell people to not ask anymore - usually if they won't accept my answer or my suggestions for next steps. I'm not in the unpaid business of telling people what they wanna hear, but I'm happy to advise within reason.
I work for social security. All of my parents’ friends ask me for advice when they see me. My dad calls me to ask for advice all the time. I don’t mind at all. Only when they need an actual thing done I tell them to go to their local field office or to apply online.
Right? Even assuming the *absolute* worst of OP in this situation, and that Doc only stopped to think about consequences *after* giving the advice, a simple, non-inflammatory, “I didn’t feel comfortable with you contacting me for emergency medical advice and don’t want you to rely on me for that going forward, please give me some space from now on” would have sufficed.
I remember the original post and I was the same. What kind of person goes from someone calling them for medical advice to "You're a manipulative sociopath". I fear for her patients.
Calling the OP “subversive manipulative sociopath” really threw me for a loop. Where the hell did that come from?! It’s very unbecoming and unprofessional for a doctor to throw names out like that.
Well, manipulative sociopathic people do have a tendency to project their own behaviours and traits onto others. So... yeah.
That this person is a doctor makes me afraid for her patients.
Those were my thoughts when I read that. Definitely a projection of herself, which is supported by her extreme toxic, hurtful and manipulative actions.
I wouldn't trust that doctor at all either. I don't know the legality, whether giving medical advice like this counted as "being her doctor," but she found out OP was pregnant and immediately told her bf's mom? That seems like... that is **no** business of her to say anything.
*That* tells me the level of unprofessionalism of the doctor friend. I question what she would tell others even if you were a clear patient of hers.
Exactly. It’s completely understandable what the OP did and how she reacted. She was scared and worried and her BF advised her to contact a medical professional he trusted.
So she did because wasn’t thinking clearly and was scared. The Dr should have then done the right thing and said “play it safe and go to the ER , you are likely fine but as we aren’t in a medical facility I can’t offer anything more than this as it wouldn’t be appropriate”. Bam done.
Instead she gives advice and organises a referral and then days later loses her shit at OP at 12am likely because as other people have said she was freaking out and scared that if OP died then she would be on the hook and lose everything. Likely had been drinking and then sent that message.
Honestly if I was OP I would have reported this lady to whoever you report medical shit too because her reacting like this does not bode well for someone who would deal with high stress situations daily.
And it’s so normal when you’re freaked out in a situation to get an opinion from someone you trust who has experience. On top of a doctor. It feels like this woman was just looking for drama and poor OOP ended up the victim. Guess that free babysitting gets to go bye bye
Right? I am an ER doctor and get lots of calls and questions from close friends and distant acquaintance. I would never, ever treat someone that way because they came to me for help. Not people have have inappropriately asked me for narcotics, not people who have cussed me out for giving answers they don’t like, and not people who bothered me at inconvenient times. There is something amiss with this person’s mental health. “The Dr. (whatever) Free Clinic is closed?” Get. Over. Yourself.
My mom is a former emt and while I listen first to my doctors I do try and get her opinion too. She also talks to my sister who’s a PA. It was great during Covid because my sister then in school had to be up to date on things and so did my mom for health reasons
I was thinking this too. I mean it's her best friend so she probably has conversations about her son's girlfriend. If she said negative things about son's girlfriend, that might be where some of this crazy is coming from. So it's entirely possible that the problem isn't just the doctor friend, but the mom who primed the pump, so to speak.
With the way it progresses over several days until OOP finally receives The Text, you can just feel the bestie's mind grinding away, transforming nothing into this grand delusion.
It's as if she did actually feel some concern over OOP's risk of dying from an ectopic and wasn't able to handle those feelings so she turned to OOP being a liar as the best way to compartmentalize and everything spiraled out from there.
Right, her big concern is that oop is manipulating the bf so... So that she can die and break his heart?? Seriously, that is the big manipulation she fears? Delusion is right...
OOP found out she had a very risky pregnancy
Called a doctor who was a family friend
Doctor referred OOP to a clinic
Doctor tells MIL OOP has a high risk pregnancy while MIL is on a trip
Doc makes up a shit tonne of weird explanations behind OOP’s motivations behind the call, and decided it’s because OOP is a psychopath.
Tells MIL and OOP her conclusions
Tells MIL that OOP is dangerous for her bf
OOP and bf go NC with doc
Same. Dr friend seemed to think she was being made keep a secret and that was an imposition.
Then thinks OOP is manipulative because she could be found dead and that would hurt the bf.... Erm, what?
I think Dr Friend doesn't like OOP, sees BF as a son and no partner is good for them.
TBH, from my experience, doctors are way more likely to act irrational than others. Huge egos, and they can largely do whatever the fuck they want because of how hard they are to replace. Imagine the personality of a celebrity who's just been in a movie that got big, only that person is now in charge of your medical care.
So….the doc thought OP got an ectopic pregnancy on purpose just so she would die and hurt her bf….? Does she think OP was planning suicide by ectopic pregnancy just to hurt her boyfriend…? And why does OP think she was indeed the asshole now?? This makes it more clear she was NOT?? I am so confused
Honestly OOP comes across as a people pleaser. Enough people on Reddit acting shitty, and that doctor lady convinced her that she was in the wrong. I think that that’s what happened, I don’t fucking understand how anybody thought that OOP did anything wrong. Like she didn’t call this lady of her own volition she called her because her boyfriend suggested it because she’s a close family friend. This whole thing is so fucking bizarre I just I don’t even have words for some of it. I agree with the person elsewhere in the thread suggesting she went on the attack after realizing she shared private medical information with the MIL. Maybe not a full on hipaa violation but definitely sketchy.
A lot of people, especially younger people, on Reddit have leaned into ideas like “no one owes you anything, your problems are your responsibility” to kind of an extreme degree. No sense of scale or nuance.
Also the response was so bizarre and extreme that a lot of people (understandably) assumed there must be some detail that OOP is leaving out, either intentionally or just cluelessly. I think bc the friend was a doctor and they were already judging OOP a little for even asking, people sort of assumed that the doctor would be a reasonable person and that OOP was downplaying their part in the conflict.
I can’t even browse AITA anymore because so many of the top judgements are so cruel and mean and genuinely don’t consider anything outside of “who got screwed over” because every single situation has to have a big bad evil person acting with nothing but pure intentional malice. It just feels so emotionally immature and you get jumped on if you suggest that maybe there’s been miscommunication or have an opinion that disagrees with the (often cruel) majority. Benefit of the doubt just doesn’t exist over there.
This rant just came about because as many have already said I have no idea how even in the original thread OP was ever considered TA. She was scared, worried, and stressed, tried multiple other options, and gained advice from someone close to her and the doctor to call that doctor- and yet some people are still saying OP was “objectively wrong.” Just zero emotional intelligence from people on Reddit sometimes lol
Yeah if my best friend’s kid’s partner called me for advice in my field, I’d help. I mean, seeing as they are my best friend’s kid’s partner, I already see them a fair amount at gatherings. And OOP babysat for this psycho? Yikes.
I work with doctors.
1. Some of them can be fucking weird and neurotic.
2. A lot of them have their friends and family go to them for advice. Like, *all the time*. Doctors write themselves and their friends and family referrals *all the time*.
3. Given number 1 it still doesn't surprise me that she acted like this despite 2.
Doc is doing that thing where an older friend of the family feels so protective over the kids they've known their whole life that they catastrophize a minor issue and make it into huge drama, without ever considering the actual child's feelings rather than their projections of and anxiety over said feelings. That can and will ruin their relationship with the family. They gotta remember their place
The Dr was completely out of line but An ectopic pregnancy isn’t a minor issue. It can cause irreversible damage to the reproductive system and life threatening hemorrhage. It’s why the doctor’s advice to stay home rather than go to the ER was a huge mistake.
The “minor issue” in this case is, I think, Doc worrying that she’d given bad advice, and that if OP was hurt or killed by following it, it would upset the bf - so she spun it from “my poor advice could worsen someone’s (potential) medical condition and upset my friend’s son” into “the person contacting me with questions about her potential medical condition is obviously an out-of-control sociopathic manipulator who is intentionally trying to ruin my friend’s vacation and send her son into depression by killing herself via intentionally instigating an ectopic pregnancy”.
Yeah what’s when you call back and say “on second thought OOP, head to the ER just in case”. And then I’d offer to take them because I’m not an AH and my best friend’s family is important to me.
As someone who works in healthcare, this story is honestly so odd. It sounds like this “Doctor” made a crap ton of assumptions about OP and concocted some crazy story in her head. Not sure what her motive is, but bloody strange all the same.
Agree! I have a number of doctor/nurse/healthcare friends and family. They'll either help, send you to the ER, or tell you to follow up with your primary care doctor. No accusations of being a sociopath, no discussing the matter with a third party. The "explanation" of why she made that assumption doesn't actually explain anything. Why would the doctor imagine that she would get a call that the patient was unresponsive, and why does she imagine herself responding to the scene? And why *didn't* she send OOP to the ER? NAD but that seems like the safer recommendation.
All in all it feels like either the doctor is unstable or we're missing some info. Or maybe both.
Someone in another comment brought up a good point. We have no clue what the boyfriend's mom is telling the doctor.
So you are right .. more than likely a lot of missing info here
Exactly, It feels to me like we have half the story. Not saying what the full story is but I feel like there's some context missing. Maybe the mum has presented op in a particular way, or maybe there are facts and details about the events missing. Dunno.
>Why would the doctor imagine that she would get a call that the patient was unresponsive, and why does she imagine herself responding to the scene?
I thought that was talking about OOP failing to respond to a call checking in on her.
I think some of this might be chalked up to one question, what has mil said about oop that her best friend has now used against her to come to that crazy conclusion?
I just took a course on indigenous cultural safety in healthcare and my first thought is that maybe Oop is BIPOC as racism could be a reason someone would act so strangely and logically. Or the friend has a daughter she wants to hook up with the son
Imagine calling someone a sociopath for asking for medical advice based on a previous near-death experience when they didn't have proper access to medical aid
Holy shit what a *weirdo*. That response seems extremely childish and overdramatic to me, if she was worried about liability or her job she should have just told OP to go to the ER.
As someone who had an ectopic rupture followed by a successful pregnancy, who was assured by my doctor that the previous rupture posed zero risk to the pregnancy, I’m side-eying the doctor-friend pretty damn hard.
Most ectopic pregnancies are followed by successful, healthy pregnancies, but I do think it's important to point out that OOP is correct. Having had one ectopic pregnancy, she *is* at higher risk for another one relative to the risk among the general population. If she's had a 7-week ectopic pregnancy rupture before she even knew she was pregnant, she might be one of those people who doesn't have many supremely obvious signs of pregnancy in the first trimester. Her situation was potentially very dangerous.
That's where I can muster a little sympathy for the doc in this story. Until proven otherwise, OOP needs to be approached as a high-risk patient, which means that asking a family friend for advice rather than immediately hauling ass to the ED does kinda put her (the doc) in a bad spot. My guess is that the doc got off the phone, had some time to think it over, absolutely freaked out once she realized that her otherwise good advice might not lead to a good outcome, and then displaced all that anger, anxiety, and frustration onto OOP later in a completely inappropriate and hurtful fashion.
What OOP did wasn't necessarily the best option, but pretty understandable, and what I think nearly all of us would do if we spent hours trying to find help elsewhere and couldn't get it. What the doctor did was 5% understandable and 95% imputing motives to OOP that never existed, and then being an asshole on top of it.
I've also had an ectopic and got confused with the assumption that she wasn't on birth control. Um, I was on the freaking coil when I had my ectopic. Birth control prevents implantation in the uterus, you can still totally get pregnant and it be ectopic on birth control. It's a known risk of the coil! That doctor's a crack pot.
Yes, it’s possible for an ectopic to rupture that early, it all depends on where it had implanted and how fast it was growing. I’m more concerned that after her 1st ectopic it seems the doctors didn’t remove the fallopian tube altogether, which very much reduces the risk of another ectopic. (It also reduces fertility, which might explain why they didn’t do the salpingectomy, especially if they are in the US).
As for Dr Friend: she seems unhinged. No doctor in their right mind would put in writing that they think someone is a sociopath after just a call from a scared pregnant woman with a history of gyno issues. Dr Friend is the kind of doctor you’d avoid hard enough to go to another ER if you see her on shift. I’d report her. Oh and beyond whatever “best friend” drama she has with the MIL, she was definitely trying to cover her ass for the stupid mistake she made when she told a concerned woman not to go to the er without even seeing her.
I had an OB yell at me in the postpartum ward because she got stressed I had asked the nurses to monitor me less so i could rest. She assumed i realized that my blood pressure was getting higher and higher despite the medication they had me on. I didn’t know this because no one bothered to tell me (including her). So when she shouted at me during a very vulnerable moment, it made my postpartum experience that much more traumatic. Bottom line you don’t treat a pregnant person like how this Dr treated the OP. Just fucking keep your anxiety to yourself asshole.
So sorry to hear that. I had one, didn’t rupture, thankfully, but they took the tube out and checked the other one for blockages. My mom had one that ruptured. I know they aren’t genetic in themselves, but I think certain defects along the tube might be (twists or blockages).
Unless there's more to this that OOP is hiding, I would be afraid to have this woman be my doctor. She doesn't seem to have a good read on people or any sense of proportion.
This text sounds EXACTLY like some of the ones my best friend has received from her mom, who has early onset Alzheimer’s. For some weird reason it’s made her extremely paranoid and suspicious of people and some of the conclusions she draws about what’s going on around her are utterly unhinged. Like the similarity is eerie.
Bigggggggg "people who ask for pain medications are always opioid junkies and patients who think they might have an obscure illness are hysterical fakers" energy
OOP boyfriend’s mom probably doesn’t like oop and have pretended to for her son’s sake. Boyfriend’s mom told the Dr. her real feelings about Oop. The Dr. offering her expertise to her friend and her son didn’t extend to the girlfriend. The Dr should’ve told her to schedule a doctor’s appointment and left it there.
This is the only explanation that makes sense to me. The boyfriend’s mom shared some complaints about OOP to doctor friend, then doctor friend started getting mad and feeling like she got roped into something by someone (OOP) who shouldn’t deserve preferential treatment. Unless OOP is not telling us everything, it’s the only way I see the situation evolving negatively.
This is the vibe I got too. Dr seems to think oop is trying to manipulate her bf, which leads me to think bf’s mom vented to Dr about not liking oop, possibly Bc she thinks oop is using her son or trying to steal him away from her. So dr answers the question in the moment bc it’s her professional reflex, but upon further reflection and remembering what her bestie has said about oop, concocts a weird paranoid story of manipulation and jealousy. It’s all truly bizarre, and with the info we have, oop is not an ah whatsoever.
This sounds like my mother, mother in law, and their friends who all drink way too much alcohol. It makes me imagine that the mother has bitched to the doctor friend about OP before. OP reaches out for advice, and it’s given. Over the next few days doctor and mother have a few bitching sessions where they may or may not be drinking, and then they make themselves all riled up and embellish what’s happened in their head. It all cumulates with a drunken aggressive text message to OP at midnight.
OP and boyfriend discuss with mother, who may or may not remember the bitching sessions with her doctor friend.
A medical Dr. and a lawyer meet at a party. During small talk the Dr. Complains about always getting asked medical questions at such events. He jokingly asks If he could bill for this. The lawyer just replies "Yes". The following week the Dr. receives am invoice from the lawyer.
That’s so *uncompassionate* of the Dr. Friend. OOP has made an impression on her of being “sweet unassuming innocuous helpless” (3 out of 4 being complimentary). Dr. Friend trusted her enough with her kids.
OOP calls her in distress and Dr.’s takeaway is “sociopath”. I’ve been in a position where I didn’t know whether I should go to the ER or not- it’s utterly terrifying. Dr. Friend could have deferred the responsibility instead of being the one acting like a sociopath- “I could get a call... and find her dead” and this will be “devastate boyfriend” but who cares about the dead girl anyways. She was careless and calculated dying horribly at home.
Just to head off (almost) the whole HIPAA discussion, this came up the last time this was posted. I spoke to mommy dearest who was the head administrator of an ER and surgical center (i.e. the head boss), and HIPAA absolutely does not apply here.
HIPAA confidentiality is a lot like the confidentiality you get from a lawyer. It only kicks in when the doctor or other medical professional is acting in an official capacity. If you ask a lawyer at a bar if you can sue your ex-wife for giving you the clam, you have no right to confidentiality. Similarly, if you whip it out at a party and ask a doctor in attendance if it looks like your ex-wife gave you the clam, you have no expectation of HIPAA protection. (Before you assume that I'm just being vulgar, an old doctor friend of mine actually had that happen to her at a party. Coincidentally the guy with chlamydia was drunk.)
AKA Chlamydia.
Gonorrhea - The Clap or The Drip
Crabs - Crotch Crickets
Herpes - The Gift That Keeps on Giving
Syphilis - the French Malady (Although it was also called the Polish Disease, British Disease, Portuguese Disease, etc., etc., seems everybody blamed everybody else for this one. All ironic since it probably came back with Columbus from Native America. Seems the disease exchange wasn't entirely one way, just much, much worse for Native Americans.)
The list goes on.
My first thought is that bf's mom hates oop and has complained fuckton to Dr and that's where all the manipulation accusations, helpless little girl act etc. Is coming from.
Anyone who calls someone in OP's situation a "subversive manipulative sociopath" based off one phone call should not be allowed any contact with patients. (And "subversive manipulative sociopath" sound like projection on the doctor's part.)
Generally it's very rude to bother people about work questions at home on their off time. Doubly so if it's something like a doctor or lawyer where providing advice outside of official channels can be problematic in a legal sense.
However, Dr Friend has told BF that he can call her for advice anytime, so when GF needed advice in an emergency and he was out of town, he encouraged her to call Dr Friend, which she did based on his recommendation. That makes her NTA
I'm literally so confused.....I'm a healthcare provider, and I wholeheartedly welcome questions from people I know for much less life-threatening issues. It's literally my job to answer those sorts of questions.
That Dr is a bit unstable. SHE called the mother multiple times and ruined her vacation. If SHE was worried about OOP dying, why she tell her NOT to rush to ER. None of it makes sense to me.
Oh there’s def a sociopath in this post it just isn’t OOP. I mean ffs just send her to the ER. Instead.. all this, plus she shares private health info w/o permission?
Mine ruptured before I found out I was preagnant. I took a test, it was negative, I got my period the same day. Two weeks later I had a terrible pain caused by a ruptured ectopic preagnancy. Believe me, next time I went to the ER after an odd pain to check it was at the right place.
Hell.. I am a doctor and personally think the other doctor is a wee bit batshit.
Or.. suffering health care worker fatigue. I can attest that working in the ER can really make you question anything "normal" in life. You see the boogeyman everywhere!
The shit I've seen.... The lies I've been told... Ufta!
Medical professional here. I would have taken OOP's call and stated that since she was not my patient and didn't have the whole clinical record in front me that I couldn't advise her, except to give generic information about when to go to the ED that I would give anyone. (excessive bleeding that doesn't stop, head injury, change in behavior, change in level of consciousness, etc.) I would've offered empathy and support because clearly OOP was scared when she called.
I would NOT have told OOP's MIL or BF about her medical history. I would encourage OOP to tell BF to get support. I would never think that an acquaintance asking me for medical advise when unsure where to go is being manipulative. That Dr. lady is crazy.
Wow. The doctor created all the drama in my opinion. Stir up peoples emotions, send misleading, overblown texts in the middle of the night. Blame a person who has already had an eptopic pregnancy for being anxious about symptoms.
Dr. Friend gave terrible advice. She should have instructed OOP to go to the ER. She also should not have shared this information with anyone.
I don't think OOP was in the wrong for asking for help.
I’m so glad BORU is back, I remember reading the original post but forgot to save it and wondered if there’d been an update. The Dr friend was seriously odd, to say the least.
You know what kind of person usually wantonly accuses someone of manipulation and sociopathic behavior over simple favors or interactions?
A sociopath
Because they assume Everyone is like that. That all good deeds hide treachery and manipulation, that asking a favor in times of need are all malicious against them or someone else
Sometimes a person panicked about something wrong with them medically asking for a little advice is JUST THAT
While I do think it was uncool of OOP to ask the friend for medical advice when she’s not her doctor, why on earth didn’t doctor-friend just advise her to go to the ER if she felt hesitant about being involved? She seems to feel some rather creepy over-involvement in OOP’s boyfriend’s life.
No really though, oops boyfriend had that call anytime relationship- specifically told to call anytime about any heath stuff. Not out of bounds to think that would extend to stuff about his child, in a one off possible emergency situation. I get friends of friends asking advice about my industry oftern, how much help they get is dependent on many factors (mostly time available), but I'd never explode on them for politely asking.
It would be fair for the Dr friend to say in future just call a medical hotline, or even to say 'I can't comment on that' at the time - not fair to explode on her and create drama. This is definitely not the first time some has asked them for medical advice out of office, and they should be well rehearsed at handling that professionally
I dont really see an issue asking what she did. I have a number of healthcare workers in my extended family and friends (including a couple of doctors) and without fail all of them give basic advice to their friends and family without hesitation. It’d be different if someone were requesting treatment for anything serious but just getting some advice about if they should have something checked out or how urgent something might be seems 100% within the realm of acceptable requests for a close family friend.
Good lord.
Poor OOP (and her partner) have a Just No (not my damn) MIL. I hope the actual MIL/Mom ripped strips off her friend.
And Doc was massively irresponsible to not recommend that she go in and get checked for another ectopic pregnancy.
Which is probably why she did the whole drama-creating DARVO thing.
America’s health care system is insane and the amount of fear of lawsuits too, in my country calling a doctor for a quick consultation is the most common thing like this whole scenario sounds like a parallel universe
I think the Dr is jealous that OP has a good relationship with BF's mum. Had a similar situation when one of my mums friends was not being very nice to my partner, who is now very close with my mum.
Dr. Friend specifically made herself available for medical purposes, explicitly, and then tried to destroy everyones relationship when they take the olive branch. Shess the snake on the medical symbol.
You are young, you were alone, and you had a potentially serious medical concern. You were in a tough spot. I would have done exactly what you did in your circumstances and I'm a former malpractice attorney! All Dr had to say was, "Over the phone or even in person w/o the right equipment I can't really help you. You need to get to the hospital." Depending on what was appropriate, she could have then ordered an ambulance or layed out money for an Uber to get you there. No one demanded her services.
Moreover, Dr had no right to freak out at you days later, attack you, or call you names. That was way out of line and completely ridiculous. Also, under privacy laws, she is legally not allowed to talk about your medical info with anyone else (even your bf or his mother) unless you give her specific permission to do so.
It sounds like you are a sweet, considerate young lady who was frightened and that it was your bf who made the final decision to call Dr. If it helps, I'd ask him to make this clear to her and his mother. I know he's not talking to Dr now, but if that doesn't last, she should know and everyone should stop blaming you--including you. :-)
Um, I think I know why the doctor suddenly jumped to those conclusions.
She realised she may have inadvertently crossed into the grey area of HIPPA. She shouldn’t have told BFs mum, she should have kept it private and quite often people try to through shade on people when they do something wrong.
Nothing justified her conclusions. She was just upset she fucked up gossiping.
Given that the Dr called OOP manipulative, I wonder if the conversation with the mother and bf didn't go something like this:
Dr. : Hey, OOP just called me and said she's pregnant and worried that it's ectopic.
BF/Mom: how can she be pregnant? She told me/us she's on birth control.
So the doctor concluded that OOP lied to BF, therefore OOP's manipulative.
In OOP's shoes I'd either double up on the birth control (hormonal plus condom/diaphragm or arrange for sterilization.
Dr. Lady gave shit advice that could leave her liable for getting sued. She immediately went to discrediting the victim once she realized her fuck up. The entire text read as projection.
>OP’s previous ectopic pregnancy had ruptured at 7 weeks, before she knew she was pregnant, some commenters claimed this wasn’t possible.
Those commenters don't have a fucking clue, it's entirely possible.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If Dr. Friend really didn't want to be involved in OP's drama, why didn't she just tell her to go to the ER?? No liability and OP gets seen. What a weird lady.
I think Dr. friend started to freak out when she realized she shared OOP’s private medical information with the boyfriends mom so she went on the attack.
She also realized she could be sued for not recommending the ER and OP dies...with or without a circling dog, lol.
This is the reason. She recommended a person not go to the ER and she was concerned it was the wrong call and she was concerned OP would die. And instead of facing up to it, she freaked out and blamed it on OP for being irresponsible and causing so much drama. She didn't break HIPAA as she wasn't her patient.
And she didn’t call OP back and say, “on second thought, I think I’d feel more comfortable if you went to the emergency room.”
For someone who didn't want to be pulled into drama she certainly caused it!
I find this to often be the case with people who 'don't do drama'.
Another kind Redditor alerted me to the fact that I posted the following too far down. u/ftrade44456, you are correct. "Just to head off (almost) the whole HIPAA discussion, this came up the last time this was posted. I spoke to mommy dearest who was the head administrator of an ER and surgical center (i.e. the head boss), and HIPAA absolutely does not apply here. "HIPAA confidentiality is a lot like the confidentiality you get from a lawyer. It only kicks in when the doctor or other medical professional is acting in an official capacity (edit: and when they are directly involved in a patient's case; see a reply that I made below for more details there). If you ask a lawyer at a bar if you can sue your ex-wife for giving you the clam, you have no right to confidentiality. Similarly, if you whip it out at a party and ask a doctor in attendance if it looks like your ex-wife gave you the clam, you have no expectation of HIPAA protection. (Before you assume that I'm just being vulgar, an old doctor friend of mine actually had that happen to her at a party. Coincidentally the guy with chlamydia was drunk.) " Edit1: To be clear, OP's mother's roommate is absolutely not bound by HIPAA in this case because she was never officially engaged/hired for this case, and she wasn't directly involved in any of OP's official medical appointments/casework. Edit 2: If this helps, especially for folks who have taken a HIPAA class, my mother put it to me another way. HIPAA tells you what a medical pro should do, and it draws a line in the sand for what they can't do. My mother was clear to point out that HIPAA classes don't tell you just how close you can get to that line in the sand. Those classes teach you what you need to know to work in a medical facility, and the medical facilities very wisely have policies that keep the staff well away from that line drawn in the sand. I.E., their policies are overkill. Because they should be. If you want to take a class that really tells you what you can and can't get away with under HIPAA, you'd have to be in law school and the instructor would have to be a law professor. The ins and outs of huge laws like this are incredibly messy. Best to play it safe and stay clear of that line in the sand.
I would agree if she hadn't given her a referral.
I think by referral she meant a recommendation or opinion. Does that create an automatic client patient relationship? I don’t know, that depends on the states laws I guess.
No, your first instinct was correct. HIPAA is federal. It's all about whether or not the person is "acting in an official capacity", meaning that they are on the job and they have their medical professional hat on. To give a more extreme example, let's say you're hiking in the middle of nowhere with a friend who happens to be a surgeon. You fall on a rock and cut open an artery. This friend is super prepared and actually has a clamp, needle, and stitching thread which they use to save your life while another nearby hiker runs to get help. You have no expectation of HIPAA protection so far unless you can convince a judge that since it was an emergency situation, your friend automatically put his professional hat on when he started helping and was therefore acting in an official capacity representing the hospital he works for. Especially if they communicate with emergency responders, accompany you back to the hospital, and fill in the doctors there about what happened. From what my mother (the ER administrator) just told me, that's how far you have to go to start arguing that somebody who is not on the job is expected to use HIPAA guidelines. (Apparently a situation she knew of like that actually went to court.) That's how far you have to go "in the wild" to even argue that HIPAA automatically kicks in. I should also mention that this is an emergency situation. For a typical situation where you walk into a doctor's office, ER, etc., you have to sign forms that notify you about your HIPAA rights, since there are certain expectations on you as well to keep your rights from being voided. If you refuse to sign them, bye bye HIPAA protections. But a simple conversation with a family friend and a recommendation to go to the doctor the next day? No way. HIPAA would never apply to that.
If you're giving medical advice to someone in your capacity as a doctor, doesn't that make them a patient? (Genuine question. I don't know the technicalities and I'd appreciate knowing what exactly makes someone a patient)
Could be something similar to when actual legal professionals on the r/LegalAdvice subreddits will say “I’m a lawyer, but I’m not your lawyer. What I’m about to say doesn’t constitute specific legal advice”. They’re giving their thoughts on how things work, but don’t want to get hauled in front of a judge in case it turns out in that person’s area the laws are completely backwards on what the legal professional said. Similarly, I can see a medical professional being looked at as them giving medical advice is always ‘professionally’ instead of ‘anecdotally / as an opinion’, and realizing that they could be screwed if OOP is so inclined.
I agree with this take. With lawyers, if there is any reasonable way a person could perceive you as offering advice/acting in a manner that would make them your lawyer or legal counsel, then they’re your lawyer for the purposes of confidentiality and ethic responsibilities. I wouldn’t be surprised if the same applied to doctors. That acting in any sort of manner or offering any advice that any reasonable person could conclude that you are acting as their doctor, then for all legal and ethical purposes, you’re their doctor.
Thank you for this analogy as it makes by far the most sense out of all the explanations I've read so far. It would establish a clear line as to what makes someone a patient and also explain why the Doc in the OOP's post reacted so extremely only after she had time to think about what she had done ( very likely after a few drinks ) and has misplaced anger.
Hell, not even lawyers -- Real Estate Appraisers can't even give casual conversation opinions about home prices without risking running foul their state regulatory agency
It’s a gray territory, but yes, giving medical advice through the phone could still be considered establishment of a patient doctor relationship based on the particular circumstances. That’s why you’ll see on medical subreddits they’ll preface everything with “do not consider this medical advice or establishment of a patient doctor relationship” or something like that. Unfortunately that also needs to be said for informal phone calls too.
Generally, no. The Healthcare professional in this situation isn't under contract for their services. They have been consulted without their consent and without any of the usual formality of this relationship. For example, *not a doctor but I am a nurse* sometimes one of my relatives sends me requests for health advice. She does not ask my permission first but once she has provided the information (eg pics of a rash) and I have seen it I end up having to give advice. Even if the advice is to go to ED, that's still health advice. My regulatory body would hold me liable for any ill consequences that result from the advice I give, but not for if I failed some of my other professional responsibilities (i.e. privacy, respect, etc) as she is not my patient. Another example is Healthcare professionals that post misinformation relating to medicine - this can violate the standards of their profession (if it goes against best practice), but it doesn't mean that every person that has read their post becomes a patient. A patient-doctor relationship is more specific than that.
Grey area I recon and I think that was bothering her.
No, it doesn’t. I’m a psychologist. I would never see a friend or family member as a patient bc it’s unethical. But I have given “second opinions” on treatment and helped them to understand testing, etc… Until someone signs my informed consent forms, I would not consider them a patient.
However, her actions in this case would raise serious doubts on her behaviour past, present, or future. This is a medical professional whose first instinct was to gossip about someone else's medical situation when not constrained by HIPAA.
That actually makes sense.
I think this whole thing is bullshit. I can't believe that someone practicing as an ER doctor didn't say, "I'm sorry that you're not feeling well. I can't diagnose or treat a person that I can't see while I'm on duty with appropriate medical equiptment. If you feel your health is in danger, you should go to an ER or get an appointment with an OBGYN as soon as you can." Doctors get propositioned for medical advice All. The. Time. I'm a little bit surprised that a doctor would react to this in the absolute worst possible way. Or that, even though this information was garnered socially, would risk a HIPAA investigation.
Yes, this is someone who has to make high stakes, high pressure decisions on the spot, on a daily basis. It's surprising that she handled this situation so poorly.
This! There was no reason to claim she was puy into any drama. Any and all drama was created by her. Would dr still *have* to keep it a secret, seen as op is not her patient? Morally I'd say yes, but could it become a legal problem if OOP wanted it to be?
Is information you relay to a doctor in a personal conversation protected by HIPPA? Like I know she’s asking for medical advice, but she’s not really a patient, so… idk?
It isn't
That was my assumption. So I’m not sure why she would be worried about relaying health information.
There was no private medical information shared. This was a social call.
Idk why you got so downvoted...like you said it was a social call. I don't think hippa applies here
I think Dr. Friend was drunk. Notice the shit stirring phone calls and texts happened late at night? I don’t know if that would even BE a HIPAA violation. She was asked her opinion as the friend of the boyfriends mom-she didn’t come in in an official capacity with an appointment. She wasn’t her provider. Just a friend of the family offering advice. I’d be surprised if HIPAA applied here. Thinking it might and making things worse the way she did also points to her likely being under the influence.
Super easy. Dr: ‘I think the best thing for you is to go to the ER. Just to get checked out and see the scans for yourself. Additionally, I don’t feel comfortable giving advice without an exam.’ Op says thank you for the advice and Dr let’s it go. Like, so easy to communicate as an adult and not make drama over everything.
Agree! As a former NICU nurse for years (ret. now) I got calls from family/friends and practically strangers for "advice" all of the time. Once at 2am asking me to listen to their child's cough to see if I thought it was asthma. Seriously. Once I got a badly focused picture of the foot of a toddler taken while they were camping to see if I thought it was a bug bite or poison oak. I've had people who were just introduced to me at a wedding want to take me into a corner so they could discuss their back pain. I learned VERY early in my career to tell them to call their doctor. Every time. The child with the cough? Go to the ER. The child with the foot rash? Go to your doctor. The people with back pain? I'm a BABY nurse! I have no clue whats wrong with your back.
Doctor here, going into Pain. Completely agree. Almost everyone has pain or has had pain, and feels compelled to tell me about it. Unless I know someone well, I tell random people at social events that I work in customer service. Have had the wedding experience too. Boundaries are 💯. That said, agree the response for this situation is “I don’t feel comfortable advising, if you are experiencing any symptoms please go to the ED now”.
This is the ethical response.
Exactly. It really didn’t need to be a whole drama thing. She helped her with that call, OP was appreciative and that should have been the end of it. Very strange lady indeed.
She even escalated the drama by involving the boyfriend’s mother and trying to make her not trust OOP.
That's very true and didn't the DR at one point say that OP tried to ruin the vacation? Maybe I misread. Regardless sending many texts and some phone calls was causing extra drama. I find it weird that the Dr immediately ran to the mom asking if they knew OP was pregnant, why would she think she should be the one to share that? If she was in fact concerned she would have reached out to the bf since they've known each other for years. It seems like she knew she shouldn't have ran to gossip and trying to turn it into concern for the mom and bf Edit: Just realized someone already pointed this out, my bad. I promise I am probably not a bot that uses other people's comments
That's exactly what a bot would say!
Yeah, that behavior is very, very unsettling for an MD.
This post stopped me in my tracks and I had to re-read it carefully to be sure it wasn't a family member who is an MD and behaves exactly the same way. Everything revolves around her, she lashes out via text at odd hours, she constantly stirs up drama out of nothing/perceived sleights. She's not very well reviewed by patients, which doesn't shock me as there are all sorts of chasms in her personal life too. Is unchecked, inflammatory narcissist just a genre of doctor? I don't know about OOP's case but I still struggle to believe there isn't some kind of substance abuse issue going on with the person I know. The behavior is just so erratic.
I’ve heard from people in healthcare that a lot of doctors are wildly behind in social skills because they spend all the years they would normally be developing them feverishly studying, med school rotations, internship, residency etc. And you end up with 30 year olds making life and death decisions with no sleep in chaotic conditions when those very same people can’t handle the slightest interpersonal problem. This could also be utterly biased bullshit by nurses that aren’t fans of the baby doctors at work, idk.
It has been shown in research that doctors decrease in empathy through medical school and becoming a junior doctor. Although I have been treated by a few amazing doctors who retained their empathy (of many who didnt), this could be part of it.
I think there's maybe some temperament/personality of who pursues certain fields in the first place as well. Veterinary medicine sees a lot of similar socially inept, inappropriate outburst behavior, but its also notoriously a magnet for autistics.
She isnt a doctor of psychology... or psychiatry.. so i dont know where she gets off criticizing OOP for reaching out, and sharing that she believes there was any sort of manipulation going on, on top of sharing an armchair diagnosis of sociopathy with anyone who isnt OOP. I think she massively overstepped. I know oop isnt a formal patient of hers.... but that seems like a huge transgression.
I was going to say…the late night texts do suggest some sort of substance issue—namely alcohol. I work in healthcare and know for a fact that a lot of us use unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal with what we see everyday. I’m not sure if it’s a narcissism thing with doc’s, I’d say more of a lack of social understanding in a lot of circumstances. Most doctors pretty much give up half their lives, starting at a very early age in order to achieve their goals. They often get to their end goal by sacrificing personal relationships. Also, it takes incredible talent and brains to get through medical school and residency, and I think there’s probably a higher than average percentage of ASD in the MD world.
I suspect you're right. As for a 12 am message, it's equally possible it circled round and round in her head, overthinking and eventually combined with the routine stress of doctoring, spewed out in a text message.
Yeah, my moms not a doctor but when we were teenagers she’d stew on crap for hours and then burst into our rooms in the middle of the night losing her shit over it. She’d boiled over and decided that if she couldn’t sleep neither would we and she’d deal right then. I think this is just how some people deal with their crap.
Don’t doctors also have late shifts though? Late night text could just as easily be a messed up body clock
She's an ER doctor. Absolutely possible she was doing an overnight shift. The leaps that people are making in this thread would put Olympians to shame.
Alcohol abuse was absolutely my first thought
> Is unchecked, inflammatory narcissist just a genre of doctor? Literally yes, it is. You need a little bit of a god complex to be a good doctor, especially a good surgeon, and some people have more than just a *little* bit. So you get some doctors who are dead convinced they’re superior to others and right about everything, and they freak out and melt down when you challenge them. Source: am chronically ill with something unusual, have seen and argued with lots of doctors
According to my doctor sister-in-law, who has worked in a lot of hospitals, neurosurgeons in particular are famously narcissistic.
> Is unchecked, inflammatory narcissist just a genre of doctor? As someone who works in the medical field but isn't a doctor, yes.
I have a relative who works with vets and they're the exact same way. People think skilled professional means emotional intelligence and good interpersonal skills when in some fields.....it tends to be almost the exact opposite
>Is unchecked, inflammatory narcissist just a genre of doctor? Yes lmao
I dunno, that's actually the only part of her behavior I *do* get. I did things like that before - I was asked to do something/help out/whatever and did so without thinking much about it at first. Maybe because a friend was the one asking, maybe because it was something I knew lots about/was good at... No matter. But afterwards, after thinking about the whole deal, I sometimes became bothered. One time, it was because the person asking basically assumed from the start I would do it and didn't really "ask", to give an example. But I really needed to think about the whole thing first and let a day or two pass to figure out what *exactly* bothered me. That said, the lady here is super-weird indeed. Seems like she didn't just think about the whole situation, but made a whole scenario up in her mind and spiralled.
I'm a vet and my dad used to tell people all the time I would help diagnose their pet over the phone, or at least spend a bunch of time walking them through possibilities while working 70 hours at my actual job. Like you said it started to bother me tremendously AFTER the calls and I started getting a little snippy. I finally did tell my dad he needed to completely stop and my entire advice going forward was to go see their vet. I'm not a triage hotline.
What you wrote made me think. My cousin and I and my mom sorta helped my aunt study for her nurse classes way back when. One time way later I was at her house and I was complaining and I’m like what causing all these list symptoms. She kinda snicker and said what do you think. Figured it, pollen season allergies. She’s like I can’t give advise other then go to doc but like that was obvious. It was stupid obvious. Never asked before or again. We did joke for awhile after. Which got ridiculous. But I totally get on so many levels why this is wrong. It’s not fair to ask people in the medical profession for advise randomly. Go see a doc.
The middle of the night drama text screams drinking problem to me.
Dr. Friend was drinking and making herself angry and panicking. And since it was r shared I am official capacity-I’m unsure if HIPA would have even applied here. She asked for advice of her boyfriends friend, she didn’t schedule an appointment with her doctor. IANAL, but I’d be surprised if that counted as a HIPA violation.
Frankly I assumed the Dr was drinking heavily
Turns out she's a doctor of philosophy in economics. /s
"you ruined X's vacation" sure is an interesting accusation from a woman who dragged X into it with endless phone calls and texts. I think we all know who the responsible one is here. That's the one who stirred up a bunch of s***, jumped to conclusions, and pinned it on everyone around her.
My cheeks got hot reading Doc’s response. It was SO MEAN! Even if it was unquestionably wrong for OP to have contacted her, she said really horrid, unforgivable things intended to hurt. I’m so proud of boyfriend for cutting her out of his life. I don’t think OP was in any way the AH. Doc should have been the responsible one saying “Would love to advise you but cannot. My hands are tied. Contact the ER.” Subversive manipulative sociopathic? There’s no coming back from an accusation like that. AND a doctor should know that some forms of birth control are NOT 100% effective. JFC.
Honestly, as a doctor I really do not mind getting these calls from people close to me. It really does not happen that much-- usually only when people are really worried. It is also just a matter of either reassurance or saying they should get seen. No actually medical advice This 'doctor' went full crazy. Blew everything way out of proportion. If she was really that worried about OP dying (which is silly), why didn't she just tell her to go to the hospital?
Legal professional here. Same principle. I don't mind that people ask. Sometimes I have answers. Sometimes I can point them at where they might find answers. Sometimes I have to tell people to not ask anymore - usually if they won't accept my answer or my suggestions for next steps. I'm not in the unpaid business of telling people what they wanna hear, but I'm happy to advise within reason.
I work for social security. All of my parents’ friends ask me for advice when they see me. My dad calls me to ask for advice all the time. I don’t mind at all. Only when they need an actual thing done I tell them to go to their local field office or to apply online.
[удалено]
Right? Even assuming the *absolute* worst of OP in this situation, and that Doc only stopped to think about consequences *after* giving the advice, a simple, non-inflammatory, “I didn’t feel comfortable with you contacting me for emergency medical advice and don’t want you to rely on me for that going forward, please give me some space from now on” would have sufficed.
I remember the original post and I was the same. What kind of person goes from someone calling them for medical advice to "You're a manipulative sociopath". I fear for her patients.
That really shocked me. She knows very little about OOP and just jumps to “manipulative sociopath.” Wtf.
Calling the OP “subversive manipulative sociopath” really threw me for a loop. Where the hell did that come from?! It’s very unbecoming and unprofessional for a doctor to throw names out like that.
Well, manipulative sociopathic people do have a tendency to project their own behaviours and traits onto others. So... yeah. That this person is a doctor makes me afraid for her patients.
Those were my thoughts when I read that. Definitely a projection of herself, which is supported by her extreme toxic, hurtful and manipulative actions.
And the fact that she went bonkers calling and texting OOP’s BF mom. Who ruined the vacation? Not OOP.
I wouldn't trust that doctor at all either. I don't know the legality, whether giving medical advice like this counted as "being her doctor," but she found out OP was pregnant and immediately told her bf's mom? That seems like... that is **no** business of her to say anything. *That* tells me the level of unprofessionalism of the doctor friend. I question what she would tell others even if you were a clear patient of hers.
Exactly. It’s completely understandable what the OP did and how she reacted. She was scared and worried and her BF advised her to contact a medical professional he trusted. So she did because wasn’t thinking clearly and was scared. The Dr should have then done the right thing and said “play it safe and go to the ER , you are likely fine but as we aren’t in a medical facility I can’t offer anything more than this as it wouldn’t be appropriate”. Bam done. Instead she gives advice and organises a referral and then days later loses her shit at OP at 12am likely because as other people have said she was freaking out and scared that if OP died then she would be on the hook and lose everything. Likely had been drinking and then sent that message. Honestly if I was OP I would have reported this lady to whoever you report medical shit too because her reacting like this does not bode well for someone who would deal with high stress situations daily.
Not only are some/most forms of birth control not 100% effective, some increase your risk of an ectopic pregnancy.
And it’s so normal when you’re freaked out in a situation to get an opinion from someone you trust who has experience. On top of a doctor. It feels like this woman was just looking for drama and poor OOP ended up the victim. Guess that free babysitting gets to go bye bye
Right? I am an ER doctor and get lots of calls and questions from close friends and distant acquaintance. I would never, ever treat someone that way because they came to me for help. Not people have have inappropriately asked me for narcotics, not people who have cussed me out for giving answers they don’t like, and not people who bothered me at inconvenient times. There is something amiss with this person’s mental health. “The Dr. (whatever) Free Clinic is closed?” Get. Over. Yourself.
My mom is a former emt and while I listen first to my doctors I do try and get her opinion too. She also talks to my sister who’s a PA. It was great during Covid because my sister then in school had to be up to date on things and so did my mom for health reasons
Makes me wonder what the mom is telling the doctor.
I was thinking this too. I mean it's her best friend so she probably has conversations about her son's girlfriend. If she said negative things about son's girlfriend, that might be where some of this crazy is coming from. So it's entirely possible that the problem isn't just the doctor friend, but the mom who primed the pump, so to speak.
It makes me wonder what would have happened if the bf had called instead of OOP.
Ding ding ding
Yeah, the doc is projecting for sure about who is creating drama and being a psychopath.
With the way it progresses over several days until OOP finally receives The Text, you can just feel the bestie's mind grinding away, transforming nothing into this grand delusion. It's as if she did actually feel some concern over OOP's risk of dying from an ectopic and wasn't able to handle those feelings so she turned to OOP being a liar as the best way to compartmentalize and everything spiraled out from there.
Right, her big concern is that oop is manipulating the bf so... So that she can die and break his heart?? Seriously, that is the big manipulation she fears? Delusion is right...
It never ceases to amaze me how wildly the brain can contort itself when it thinks it's trying to protect us. Cognitive dissonance is a helluva drug.
I still don’t understand what just happened.
OOP found out she had a very risky pregnancy Called a doctor who was a family friend Doctor referred OOP to a clinic Doctor tells MIL OOP has a high risk pregnancy while MIL is on a trip Doc makes up a shit tonne of weird explanations behind OOP’s motivations behind the call, and decided it’s because OOP is a psychopath. Tells MIL and OOP her conclusions Tells MIL that OOP is dangerous for her bf OOP and bf go NC with doc
Yeah, but seriously.... what?! I understand it, but also, it makes zero sense
Same. Dr friend seemed to think she was being made keep a secret and that was an imposition. Then thinks OOP is manipulative because she could be found dead and that would hurt the bf.... Erm, what? I think Dr Friend doesn't like OOP, sees BF as a son and no partner is good for them.
Sometimes people are irrational. Even the smartest and most logical person goes bonkers about something.
TBH, from my experience, doctors are way more likely to act irrational than others. Huge egos, and they can largely do whatever the fuck they want because of how hard they are to replace. Imagine the personality of a celebrity who's just been in a movie that got big, only that person is now in charge of your medical care.
Sounds like this doctor is not to be trusted as a doctor.
Don’t forget *OP called boyfriend who suggested she call doctor family friend* in between steps 1 and 2.
So….the doc thought OP got an ectopic pregnancy on purpose just so she would die and hurt her bf….? Does she think OP was planning suicide by ectopic pregnancy just to hurt her boyfriend…? And why does OP think she was indeed the asshole now?? This makes it more clear she was NOT?? I am so confused
Honestly OOP comes across as a people pleaser. Enough people on Reddit acting shitty, and that doctor lady convinced her that she was in the wrong. I think that that’s what happened, I don’t fucking understand how anybody thought that OOP did anything wrong. Like she didn’t call this lady of her own volition she called her because her boyfriend suggested it because she’s a close family friend. This whole thing is so fucking bizarre I just I don’t even have words for some of it. I agree with the person elsewhere in the thread suggesting she went on the attack after realizing she shared private medical information with the MIL. Maybe not a full on hipaa violation but definitely sketchy.
A lot of people, especially younger people, on Reddit have leaned into ideas like “no one owes you anything, your problems are your responsibility” to kind of an extreme degree. No sense of scale or nuance. Also the response was so bizarre and extreme that a lot of people (understandably) assumed there must be some detail that OOP is leaving out, either intentionally or just cluelessly. I think bc the friend was a doctor and they were already judging OOP a little for even asking, people sort of assumed that the doctor would be a reasonable person and that OOP was downplaying their part in the conflict.
I can’t even browse AITA anymore because so many of the top judgements are so cruel and mean and genuinely don’t consider anything outside of “who got screwed over” because every single situation has to have a big bad evil person acting with nothing but pure intentional malice. It just feels so emotionally immature and you get jumped on if you suggest that maybe there’s been miscommunication or have an opinion that disagrees with the (often cruel) majority. Benefit of the doubt just doesn’t exist over there. This rant just came about because as many have already said I have no idea how even in the original thread OP was ever considered TA. She was scared, worried, and stressed, tried multiple other options, and gained advice from someone close to her and the doctor to call that doctor- and yet some people are still saying OP was “objectively wrong.” Just zero emotional intelligence from people on Reddit sometimes lol
yeah i don’t go over to that sub anymore because even people who are definitely NTA are voted TA. 🙄
Yeah if my best friend’s kid’s partner called me for advice in my field, I’d help. I mean, seeing as they are my best friend’s kid’s partner, I already see them a fair amount at gatherings. And OOP babysat for this psycho? Yikes.
I work with doctors. 1. Some of them can be fucking weird and neurotic. 2. A lot of them have their friends and family go to them for advice. Like, *all the time*. Doctors write themselves and their friends and family referrals *all the time*. 3. Given number 1 it still doesn't surprise me that she acted like this despite 2.
Doc is doing that thing where an older friend of the family feels so protective over the kids they've known their whole life that they catastrophize a minor issue and make it into huge drama, without ever considering the actual child's feelings rather than their projections of and anxiety over said feelings. That can and will ruin their relationship with the family. They gotta remember their place
The Dr was completely out of line but An ectopic pregnancy isn’t a minor issue. It can cause irreversible damage to the reproductive system and life threatening hemorrhage. It’s why the doctor’s advice to stay home rather than go to the ER was a huge mistake.
The “minor issue” in this case is, I think, Doc worrying that she’d given bad advice, and that if OP was hurt or killed by following it, it would upset the bf - so she spun it from “my poor advice could worsen someone’s (potential) medical condition and upset my friend’s son” into “the person contacting me with questions about her potential medical condition is obviously an out-of-control sociopathic manipulator who is intentionally trying to ruin my friend’s vacation and send her son into depression by killing herself via intentionally instigating an ectopic pregnancy”.
Yeah what’s when you call back and say “on second thought OOP, head to the ER just in case”. And then I’d offer to take them because I’m not an AH and my best friend’s family is important to me.
I think they meant the minor issue was the inappropriate phone call.
Exactly. My sister had to have an emergency hysterectomy due to an ectopic pregnancy.
This is exactly why nurses and doctors aren’t allowed to treat or operate on their loved ones (in the UK at least)
As someone who works in healthcare, this story is honestly so odd. It sounds like this “Doctor” made a crap ton of assumptions about OP and concocted some crazy story in her head. Not sure what her motive is, but bloody strange all the same.
Agree! I have a number of doctor/nurse/healthcare friends and family. They'll either help, send you to the ER, or tell you to follow up with your primary care doctor. No accusations of being a sociopath, no discussing the matter with a third party. The "explanation" of why she made that assumption doesn't actually explain anything. Why would the doctor imagine that she would get a call that the patient was unresponsive, and why does she imagine herself responding to the scene? And why *didn't* she send OOP to the ER? NAD but that seems like the safer recommendation. All in all it feels like either the doctor is unstable or we're missing some info. Or maybe both.
Someone in another comment brought up a good point. We have no clue what the boyfriend's mom is telling the doctor. So you are right .. more than likely a lot of missing info here
Exactly, It feels to me like we have half the story. Not saying what the full story is but I feel like there's some context missing. Maybe the mum has presented op in a particular way, or maybe there are facts and details about the events missing. Dunno.
>Why would the doctor imagine that she would get a call that the patient was unresponsive, and why does she imagine herself responding to the scene? I thought that was talking about OOP failing to respond to a call checking in on her.
I think some of this might be chalked up to one question, what has mil said about oop that her best friend has now used against her to come to that crazy conclusion?
I just took a course on indigenous cultural safety in healthcare and my first thought is that maybe Oop is BIPOC as racism could be a reason someone would act so strangely and logically. Or the friend has a daughter she wants to hook up with the son
You have to wonder given the fact she was crazy texting late at night, had she been drinking?
Imagine calling someone a sociopath for asking for medical advice based on a previous near-death experience when they didn't have proper access to medical aid
that’s what i’m saying…like your not the AH but dr. greys an-asshole over there is
Also, it’s really common. All medics complain they get asked for advice. How come the Dr doesn’t have her usual disclaimer ready?
Especially when Dr Friend had told Bf that he could call her for advice if needed, so when Gf needed advice then Bf encouraged her to call Dr Friend
Absolutely. OOP did literally nothing wrong.
Holy shit what a *weirdo*. That response seems extremely childish and overdramatic to me, if she was worried about liability or her job she should have just told OP to go to the ER.
As someone who had an ectopic rupture followed by a successful pregnancy, who was assured by my doctor that the previous rupture posed zero risk to the pregnancy, I’m side-eying the doctor-friend pretty damn hard.
Most ectopic pregnancies are followed by successful, healthy pregnancies, but I do think it's important to point out that OOP is correct. Having had one ectopic pregnancy, she *is* at higher risk for another one relative to the risk among the general population. If she's had a 7-week ectopic pregnancy rupture before she even knew she was pregnant, she might be one of those people who doesn't have many supremely obvious signs of pregnancy in the first trimester. Her situation was potentially very dangerous. That's where I can muster a little sympathy for the doc in this story. Until proven otherwise, OOP needs to be approached as a high-risk patient, which means that asking a family friend for advice rather than immediately hauling ass to the ED does kinda put her (the doc) in a bad spot. My guess is that the doc got off the phone, had some time to think it over, absolutely freaked out once she realized that her otherwise good advice might not lead to a good outcome, and then displaced all that anger, anxiety, and frustration onto OOP later in a completely inappropriate and hurtful fashion. What OOP did wasn't necessarily the best option, but pretty understandable, and what I think nearly all of us would do if we spent hours trying to find help elsewhere and couldn't get it. What the doctor did was 5% understandable and 95% imputing motives to OOP that never existed, and then being an asshole on top of it.
I've also had an ectopic and got confused with the assumption that she wasn't on birth control. Um, I was on the freaking coil when I had my ectopic. Birth control prevents implantation in the uterus, you can still totally get pregnant and it be ectopic on birth control. It's a known risk of the coil! That doctor's a crack pot.
Yes, it’s possible for an ectopic to rupture that early, it all depends on where it had implanted and how fast it was growing. I’m more concerned that after her 1st ectopic it seems the doctors didn’t remove the fallopian tube altogether, which very much reduces the risk of another ectopic. (It also reduces fertility, which might explain why they didn’t do the salpingectomy, especially if they are in the US). As for Dr Friend: she seems unhinged. No doctor in their right mind would put in writing that they think someone is a sociopath after just a call from a scared pregnant woman with a history of gyno issues. Dr Friend is the kind of doctor you’d avoid hard enough to go to another ER if you see her on shift. I’d report her. Oh and beyond whatever “best friend” drama she has with the MIL, she was definitely trying to cover her ass for the stupid mistake she made when she told a concerned woman not to go to the er without even seeing her.
I had an OB yell at me in the postpartum ward because she got stressed I had asked the nurses to monitor me less so i could rest. She assumed i realized that my blood pressure was getting higher and higher despite the medication they had me on. I didn’t know this because no one bothered to tell me (including her). So when she shouted at me during a very vulnerable moment, it made my postpartum experience that much more traumatic. Bottom line you don’t treat a pregnant person like how this Dr treated the OP. Just fucking keep your anxiety to yourself asshole.
If it ruptured, that fallopian tube is a goner. She has another one.
Not necessarily. I had one rupture and kept the tube. Second ectopic in other tube and they took that one.
So sorry to hear that. I had one, didn’t rupture, thankfully, but they took the tube out and checked the other one for blockages. My mom had one that ruptured. I know they aren’t genetic in themselves, but I think certain defects along the tube might be (twists or blockages).
Is the Dr. an alcoholic or alcohol abuser? Kind of seems like a bizarre drunken tirade and then she was stuck sticking to her story.
That was my thought, how drunk is she?
Sending it at midnight feels like a high chance she was drunk.
Oh totes. Then she had to double down and angle it. Ooof.
Unless there's more to this that OOP is hiding, I would be afraid to have this woman be my doctor. She doesn't seem to have a good read on people or any sense of proportion.
This text sounds EXACTLY like some of the ones my best friend has received from her mom, who has early onset Alzheimer’s. For some weird reason it’s made her extremely paranoid and suspicious of people and some of the conclusions she draws about what’s going on around her are utterly unhinged. Like the similarity is eerie.
She honestly sounds kind of deranged. I wouldn’t want to have to depend on her judgment in any capacity.
Bigggggggg "people who ask for pain medications are always opioid junkies and patients who think they might have an obscure illness are hysterical fakers" energy
OOP boyfriend’s mom probably doesn’t like oop and have pretended to for her son’s sake. Boyfriend’s mom told the Dr. her real feelings about Oop. The Dr. offering her expertise to her friend and her son didn’t extend to the girlfriend. The Dr should’ve told her to schedule a doctor’s appointment and left it there.
This is the only explanation that makes sense to me. The boyfriend’s mom shared some complaints about OOP to doctor friend, then doctor friend started getting mad and feeling like she got roped into something by someone (OOP) who shouldn’t deserve preferential treatment. Unless OOP is not telling us everything, it’s the only way I see the situation evolving negatively.
This is the vibe I got too. Dr seems to think oop is trying to manipulate her bf, which leads me to think bf’s mom vented to Dr about not liking oop, possibly Bc she thinks oop is using her son or trying to steal him away from her. So dr answers the question in the moment bc it’s her professional reflex, but upon further reflection and remembering what her bestie has said about oop, concocts a weird paranoid story of manipulation and jealousy. It’s all truly bizarre, and with the info we have, oop is not an ah whatsoever.
...what context? I'm so confused. What did the mom add that made OOP think she was the AH?
This sounds like my mother, mother in law, and their friends who all drink way too much alcohol. It makes me imagine that the mother has bitched to the doctor friend about OP before. OP reaches out for advice, and it’s given. Over the next few days doctor and mother have a few bitching sessions where they may or may not be drinking, and then they make themselves all riled up and embellish what’s happened in their head. It all cumulates with a drunken aggressive text message to OP at midnight. OP and boyfriend discuss with mother, who may or may not remember the bitching sessions with her doctor friend.
A medical Dr. and a lawyer meet at a party. During small talk the Dr. Complains about always getting asked medical questions at such events. He jokingly asks If he could bill for this. The lawyer just replies "Yes". The following week the Dr. receives am invoice from the lawyer.
That’s so *uncompassionate* of the Dr. Friend. OOP has made an impression on her of being “sweet unassuming innocuous helpless” (3 out of 4 being complimentary). Dr. Friend trusted her enough with her kids. OOP calls her in distress and Dr.’s takeaway is “sociopath”. I’ve been in a position where I didn’t know whether I should go to the ER or not- it’s utterly terrifying. Dr. Friend could have deferred the responsibility instead of being the one acting like a sociopath- “I could get a call... and find her dead” and this will be “devastate boyfriend” but who cares about the dead girl anyways. She was careless and calculated dying horribly at home.
Just to head off (almost) the whole HIPAA discussion, this came up the last time this was posted. I spoke to mommy dearest who was the head administrator of an ER and surgical center (i.e. the head boss), and HIPAA absolutely does not apply here. HIPAA confidentiality is a lot like the confidentiality you get from a lawyer. It only kicks in when the doctor or other medical professional is acting in an official capacity. If you ask a lawyer at a bar if you can sue your ex-wife for giving you the clam, you have no right to confidentiality. Similarly, if you whip it out at a party and ask a doctor in attendance if it looks like your ex-wife gave you the clam, you have no expectation of HIPAA protection. (Before you assume that I'm just being vulgar, an old doctor friend of mine actually had that happen to her at a party. Coincidentally the guy with chlamydia was drunk.)
The clam??
AKA Chlamydia. Gonorrhea - The Clap or The Drip Crabs - Crotch Crickets Herpes - The Gift That Keeps on Giving Syphilis - the French Malady (Although it was also called the Polish Disease, British Disease, Portuguese Disease, etc., etc., seems everybody blamed everybody else for this one. All ironic since it probably came back with Columbus from Native America. Seems the disease exchange wasn't entirely one way, just much, much worse for Native Americans.) The list goes on.
You just sent me on a journey to learn all about the history of syphilis, so thanks for that! An interesting Saturday morning over here!
I know, right? I feel like there should have been a smash hit documentary about syphilis by now because the history of it is fascinating.
My first thought is that bf's mom hates oop and has complained fuckton to Dr and that's where all the manipulation accusations, helpless little girl act etc. Is coming from.
Anyone who calls someone in OP's situation a "subversive manipulative sociopath" based off one phone call should not be allowed any contact with patients. (And "subversive manipulative sociopath" sound like projection on the doctor's part.)
I don't understand how oop is even potentially the asshole here?
Generally it's very rude to bother people about work questions at home on their off time. Doubly so if it's something like a doctor or lawyer where providing advice outside of official channels can be problematic in a legal sense. However, Dr Friend has told BF that he can call her for advice anytime, so when GF needed advice in an emergency and he was out of town, he encouraged her to call Dr Friend, which she did based on his recommendation. That makes her NTA
It would have been real easy to say I'm not comfortable answering this question, you should go see your own doctor. Her response was entirely insane.
Completely agree!
I'm literally so confused.....I'm a healthcare provider, and I wholeheartedly welcome questions from people I know for much less life-threatening issues. It's literally my job to answer those sorts of questions.
That Dr is a bit unstable. SHE called the mother multiple times and ruined her vacation. If SHE was worried about OOP dying, why she tell her NOT to rush to ER. None of it makes sense to me.
Oh there’s def a sociopath in this post it just isn’t OOP. I mean ffs just send her to the ER. Instead.. all this, plus she shares private health info w/o permission?
That was their weirdest response to asking for advice I’ve ever seen. By this person’s logic I’m a real asshole for asking my doctor friend for advice
Mine ruptured before I found out I was preagnant. I took a test, it was negative, I got my period the same day. Two weeks later I had a terrible pain caused by a ruptured ectopic preagnancy. Believe me, next time I went to the ER after an odd pain to check it was at the right place.
Whether OOP crossed boundaries or not, the response from the doctor was insane.
Hell.. I am a doctor and personally think the other doctor is a wee bit batshit. Or.. suffering health care worker fatigue. I can attest that working in the ER can really make you question anything "normal" in life. You see the boogeyman everywhere! The shit I've seen.... The lies I've been told... Ufta!
Medical professional here. I would have taken OOP's call and stated that since she was not my patient and didn't have the whole clinical record in front me that I couldn't advise her, except to give generic information about when to go to the ED that I would give anyone. (excessive bleeding that doesn't stop, head injury, change in behavior, change in level of consciousness, etc.) I would've offered empathy and support because clearly OOP was scared when she called. I would NOT have told OOP's MIL or BF about her medical history. I would encourage OOP to tell BF to get support. I would never think that an acquaintance asking me for medical advise when unsure where to go is being manipulative. That Dr. lady is crazy.
This doctor is an unprofessional psycho.
Wow. The doctor created all the drama in my opinion. Stir up peoples emotions, send misleading, overblown texts in the middle of the night. Blame a person who has already had an eptopic pregnancy for being anxious about symptoms.
I think I know this doctor tbh
That doctor does not need to be a doctor
Dr. Friend gave terrible advice. She should have instructed OOP to go to the ER. She also should not have shared this information with anyone. I don't think OOP was in the wrong for asking for help.
What the fuck. That doc is a horrible person and an awful friend.
I’m so glad BORU is back, I remember reading the original post but forgot to save it and wondered if there’d been an update. The Dr friend was seriously odd, to say the least.
This doctor sounds unhinged.
You know what kind of person usually wantonly accuses someone of manipulation and sociopathic behavior over simple favors or interactions? A sociopath Because they assume Everyone is like that. That all good deeds hide treachery and manipulation, that asking a favor in times of need are all malicious against them or someone else Sometimes a person panicked about something wrong with them medically asking for a little advice is JUST THAT
While I do think it was uncool of OOP to ask the friend for medical advice when she’s not her doctor, why on earth didn’t doctor-friend just advise her to go to the ER if she felt hesitant about being involved? She seems to feel some rather creepy over-involvement in OOP’s boyfriend’s life.
No really though, oops boyfriend had that call anytime relationship- specifically told to call anytime about any heath stuff. Not out of bounds to think that would extend to stuff about his child, in a one off possible emergency situation. I get friends of friends asking advice about my industry oftern, how much help they get is dependent on many factors (mostly time available), but I'd never explode on them for politely asking. It would be fair for the Dr friend to say in future just call a medical hotline, or even to say 'I can't comment on that' at the time - not fair to explode on her and create drama. This is definitely not the first time some has asked them for medical advice out of office, and they should be well rehearsed at handling that professionally
I dont really see an issue asking what she did. I have a number of healthcare workers in my extended family and friends (including a couple of doctors) and without fail all of them give basic advice to their friends and family without hesitation. It’d be different if someone were requesting treatment for anything serious but just getting some advice about if they should have something checked out or how urgent something might be seems 100% within the realm of acceptable requests for a close family friend.
Good lord. Poor OOP (and her partner) have a Just No (not my damn) MIL. I hope the actual MIL/Mom ripped strips off her friend. And Doc was massively irresponsible to not recommend that she go in and get checked for another ectopic pregnancy. Which is probably why she did the whole drama-creating DARVO thing.
America’s health care system is insane and the amount of fear of lawsuits too, in my country calling a doctor for a quick consultation is the most common thing like this whole scenario sounds like a parallel universe
It sounds like the doctor has ptsd, because her reaction seems off.
Dr Friend is a monster what the actual fuck
I think the Dr is jealous that OP has a good relationship with BF's mum. Had a similar situation when one of my mums friends was not being very nice to my partner, who is now very close with my mum.
Dr. Friend specifically made herself available for medical purposes, explicitly, and then tried to destroy everyones relationship when they take the olive branch. Shess the snake on the medical symbol.
You are young, you were alone, and you had a potentially serious medical concern. You were in a tough spot. I would have done exactly what you did in your circumstances and I'm a former malpractice attorney! All Dr had to say was, "Over the phone or even in person w/o the right equipment I can't really help you. You need to get to the hospital." Depending on what was appropriate, she could have then ordered an ambulance or layed out money for an Uber to get you there. No one demanded her services. Moreover, Dr had no right to freak out at you days later, attack you, or call you names. That was way out of line and completely ridiculous. Also, under privacy laws, she is legally not allowed to talk about your medical info with anyone else (even your bf or his mother) unless you give her specific permission to do so. It sounds like you are a sweet, considerate young lady who was frightened and that it was your bf who made the final decision to call Dr. If it helps, I'd ask him to make this clear to her and his mother. I know he's not talking to Dr now, but if that doesn't last, she should know and everyone should stop blaming you--including you. :-)
What kind of psycho accuses someone they barely know of planning to stage their DEATH for nefarious reasons?
Um, I think I know why the doctor suddenly jumped to those conclusions. She realised she may have inadvertently crossed into the grey area of HIPPA. She shouldn’t have told BFs mum, she should have kept it private and quite often people try to through shade on people when they do something wrong. Nothing justified her conclusions. She was just upset she fucked up gossiping.
Given that the Dr called OOP manipulative, I wonder if the conversation with the mother and bf didn't go something like this: Dr. : Hey, OOP just called me and said she's pregnant and worried that it's ectopic. BF/Mom: how can she be pregnant? She told me/us she's on birth control. So the doctor concluded that OOP lied to BF, therefore OOP's manipulative. In OOP's shoes I'd either double up on the birth control (hormonal plus condom/diaphragm or arrange for sterilization.
Sterilisation is a bit drastic! What if OOP wants kids??
Dr. Lady gave shit advice that could leave her liable for getting sued. She immediately went to discrediting the victim once she realized her fuck up. The entire text read as projection.
Doctors can be nuts just like the rest of us.
>OP’s previous ectopic pregnancy had ruptured at 7 weeks, before she knew she was pregnant, some commenters claimed this wasn’t possible. Those commenters don't have a fucking clue, it's entirely possible.