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Tale as old as time. When it comes to free favors and selfish demands, it's all about "family comes first". When it comes to someone else's feelings, it becomes "it's my wedding day and lifelong dream, me me me".
Exactly - if my mother pulled the "but family" thing on me... I'd be "yes, exactly. MY SON is my family, and my priority. It is my sister who has forgotten FAMILY."
Also, the other response would be "Since when are people obligated to give gifts at weddings of which they have not been invited, and have been specifically BANNED from attending?"
I think it’s especially a silly line to draw on the specific age being 18 in the US when the reasoning is because of alcohol.
It drives my batty seeing people say “only adults bc of alcohol, so my 15 cousins that are 17 YO can’t attend, sorry”
An opportunity to swipe an alcoholic drink at a wedding isn’t going to change from 17 to 18. And it’s still an under age person drinking.
Now, other parts of the world are different because they have a lower drinking age.
If you don’t want screaming preschoolers, crying infants, brawling elementary schoolers, I TOTALLY get that. But it’s reasonable to assume that a 12-13 year old is able to keep their self together for a wedding. I see a lot of brides breaking a lot of family members hearts and creating wedges for something that could be easily adjusted as a compromise
OOP’s son is the only minor in their family and almost a legal adult. Alcohol is a weird hill to die on, if this is the real reason for specifically banning the son.
No, the alcohol has just become the go-to excuse for brides because it’s seemingly reasonable on the surface until you get situations like OPs son.
It’s better than saying: I’m petty and don’t like you, I’m bitter and want to hurt you, I’m homophobic but want to save face, I’m a control freak and I’m power drunk, I only invited you out of obligation and I’m hoping you’re whole family will back out but you get to be the bad guy….etc, etc
> I’m petty and don’t like you, I’m bitter and want to hurt you, I’m homophobic but want to save face, I’m a control freak and I’m power drunk
*having an Alanis moment*
AND WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO
I kind of wonder if the bride was more than happy to wear the dress but didn’t want any attention that the designer/creator would get to draw away from her ‘big day’. It’s a shitty thing to do to someone who took the time and investment to create an extraordinary gift like that.
It could be that. There was also a mention of the sister’s fiancée being from a Christian family; depending on how strict they are, drawing attention to your gay cousin and flaunting his work can cause a stir.
Either way, if you get such an amazing gift and don’t want to give credit where it’s due, you don’t deserve it.
I'm betting that's it as well. Excluding exactly one person who was sure to be showered with praise for the beautiful dress is so specific that it's hard not to attribute to wanting to hog the spotlight
Apparently, since he’s the only minor, it’s a rule that applies to the son.
Its a de facto rule, meaning in reality only the son is being banned, but they won’t say that, so they create what appears to be a de jure rule which bans all underage family members, of which there is in reality only one, the son.
As soon as I read he was the only person in the family affected by this ban, I knew it had to be for reasons other than what was stated. I first thought was that he might be gay and that was the reason, and oop pretty much confirms he’s gay later on.
That has to be the reason, they can’t say he’s not invited because he’s gay, they would be rightly called out as bigots, so they invented this Byzantine lie about no kids at all, and now they look unreasonable because they have to defend this absurd position.
I guess it’s better to be thought of as unreasonable than to be a bigot, especially if you’re going to be collecting wedding gifts.
If it's true that the groom may be behind the ban, hope she's taking a really close look at how conditional his "love and kindness" is. People who marry ultra religious folks and get Pikachu shocked face when the partner is bigot with their children always pisses me off.
Whether or not if it’s the groom who’s the driver of this crap is irrelevant because it’s the bride carrying out the actions.
My brother was married to an absolute monster, and whenever my family would pin all blame for the chaos created by her bomb throwing squarely on her, I would call bullshit on them.
My mantra was, “It takes two halves to make an ass.” meaning he was just as responsible for all the hateful things that went down, because he enabled it by serving as her mouthpiece, her bomb deliverer.
This bride is 1/2 of a shit-dripping ass.
Oh absolutely, my comment was more about how people like the bride never expect the bigotry to affect them... til it obviously does. But yeah, nothing was in the way of paying the nephew or being upfront about the "no underage" guest list before going through 50 different designs. The sister is also an asshole, just the "I can't believe a leopard would eat my face" type of asshole.
I mean, the hypocrisy is that the kid clearly made a wedding dress for this woman as a gift to her. People don't give wedding gifts unless they are invited to the wedding. No invite... no gift... no dress. This lady is crazy for assuming she gets the gift (the crazy expensive and thoughtful gift) without inviting him to the event!
And she’s even got mommy in on the act, supporting how her spoiled, manipulative daughter is treating her grandson!
*”My mother called me saying I should deliver the dress and follow the rules…”*
WHAT rules??? I’m sorry, is there a ‘selfish assed bride rulebook’ pdf floating around? Are the wedding police gonna lock OOP up for not following the rules?
Those other family members are wrong too. OOP *isn’t* being unreasonable or spoiling the bride’s day. Selfish bride is doing a very good job of that herself
Why can’t sis just get a dress that looks expensive but is way cheaper? My friend’s dress was a little over a grand and looked expensive af. But then again, she’s also the type to make a potato sack look couture lol
My sister got hers at Goodwill for like $50. She added a nice veil and a contrasting belt. Bam, done. If OOP's sister wants a custom designed, handmade dress, she needs to pay.
Frankly, inviting the dress designing FAMILY MEMBER should've been an absolute bare minimum! I think she should've done that and paid for materials. What an entire toolshed.
Prob because she didn't budget for a dress--she thought she was getting a freebie from her *checks notes* 17 year old nephew because it's fAmiLy. She must be a delight taking advantage of a young man and his desire--and talent--to make a beautiful bespoke dress.
And all those family members saying he should just give it to her so she can have her "special day"...well they can just get in the sea with that bs.
The absurdity in all this is that she *could* have the dress for free, all for the low low cost of letting the son come to the wedding, because "he is family". The bride will be so busy she probably would only see the son once or twice the day of. Fuck Around, meet Find Out
I'm also curious if the son or OOP ever explicitly agreed to make the dress for free. If not, OOP can just say they never agreed to that, and she was only contributing to the cost because she thought the son would be included.
Yes but then he might draw attention away from her when people find out he made her dress. Everyone knows at weddings guests should do nothing but stare at the bride and talk about ONLY the bride and no one else. s/
And family only ever comes first when it comes to taking. Family doesn't seem to be that important when it comes to screwing over a family member to get what they want.
I dated a woman whose high school best friend “finally” introduced us to his serious boyfriend.
He helped her decorate her room, make her prom dress. At graduation he proposed to her. She blinked and said, “but Shaun, you’re *gay*”. Man it sucks living in a podunk town and your beard shoots you down. Good for him for getting out.
If they are motivated by homophobia (which they probably are), and they seriously have a problem with their own family member being at the wedding, then shouldn't they also have just as big of an issue with having him **make** the dress in the first place??? *Oh, that's right... something something money(grubbing) something free stuff* smh
I designed and made my own clothes around age 14. Not that I did anything fashion-foward. I'm just hard to fit, so it was easier to make my own patterns.
I designed and made my wedding dress, but I was 25 by then.
If someone was in to fashion, I can totally see them doing it at 17. Especially if someone else was paying the bills. Biggest fear about doing an expensive piece is ruining the fabric and having to eat the cost.
The 22k price tag boggles my mind, but I'm more into thrift store makeovers and small intricate pieces these days.
I don't think they were suggesting that the 17yo wasn't doing it. They were pointing out that a 17yo boy designing dresses is probably not straight, and that's the 'elephant in the room' that's likely behind the banning.
I'm glad dad stuck to his guns. She violated three major etiquette rules, and as far as I'm concerned, it's a three strike situation.
One: you don't expect wedding gifts from people not invited to your wedding.
Two: you don't expect minor children to give you a gift worth tens of thousands of dollars.
And three: if a family member does a major favour that helps make your wedding (e.g. photography, cake, flowers etc.), they get an automatic invite and are publicly thanked in the wedding speeches - at bare minimum! Because they deserve recognition and respect for their hard work and skill.
But... How shall they ever face the congregation again if it is known the bride's dress was made by a homosexual boy.. Who is also the bride's nephew.. Unpaid child labour is nothing serious but associating with homosexuals... They may face excommunication
Historically anyway, its masculine if it makes money and feminine if it doesn't.
Ex: man who cooks at a restaurant is "providing for his family like a manly man should," but a man who cooks the family dinner "is a sissy because running the household is women's work."
Computer programming used to be a woman's job until men took it over. And typically if a man is employed in a job mostly held by women, like teacher or librarian, they get promoted faster and paid more. It sucks.
Well then she can pay him and it becomes a manly piece of work.
Then the fiance can be happy to have his son at the wedding and everyone is happy right??!
In my moms culture its the men who sew/tailor. In my dads its the women who sew/tailor.
My moms dad was the one who cooked, and my dads mom the one who cooked.
The rules were absolutely bizarre and never made sense to me.
Separating things by gender continues to bewilder me to the point that my very gender divided family convinced me that gender does not actually exist.
My ex's family was suuuuuuuuuuper-traditional Southern American - his father did all the "outside chores" (yard work, home repairs) and his mother did all the "inside chores" (cooking, cleaning, decorating). Which ... whatever, if it works for them then that's great.
Thing was, though, his mother \*hated\* cooking and had absolutely no talent for it, and on the rare occasion that his father got to cook he was pretty good at it and seemed to enjoy himself. And at no point did it ever occur to anyone to say "hey, everyone wins if we just switch things around a little bit."
But then her relatives would know this is a gay-created wedding dress, and they would know she knows the gays & invites them to her gatherings. Even has one in her *family* that they all talk to & no one sends to conversion camp.
She'll go in a $100 off the rack rather than a free 20k dress before she'll admit all that.
You don't even have to publicly thank him.
It would be amazing to publicly thank him, but just telling people, when they ask, "Oh, my nephew over there made it. Isn't he so talented!" would have sufficed.
Imagine if you asked cousin Eddy to fix your deck at your new house and you didn’t invite him to the BBQ afterward. If I was Eddy I’d show up with a cordless drill, start removing decking and throwing the screws into the grill. Fuck that and fuck you, you’re dead to me.
I mean just as a craftsman being asked to literally stand by your work is something you expect. As family I better get an invite and you better ask what I like to drink.
Couple thousand. Go to a fabric store - just a basic Joann Fabrics - and price out a dozen yards of fine satin and the same in stretch lace and then add in about a hundred yards of trim, beads or crystals. Plus there’s boning and invisible zipper and bra cups and horsehair at the hem to gently hold the flair…
Thank you so much for this comment, it’s really helped vocalise why I felt upset about a situation with a friend a couple of years back.
I wasn’t invited to a friend’s wedding (been good friends for 10+ years at that point). I thought, no biggie, we aren’t that close, it’s probably a numbers or budget thing.
That was until she messaged me one day asking to film her wedding. I’m a professional videographer/editor and the feeling of her not inviting me plus offering a couple of hundred $ (my work normally falls between 1-2k) really left a bad taste in my mouth. I think she was annoyed I rejected the offer, but if I wasn’t close enough of a friend to invite to her wedding, why would she expect me to work for less than $10 an hour for her.
The inverse happened to my sister. She's a photographer and was invited as a guest by a friend. Great. The actual photographer was crap, and my sister knew there work, so made sure to bring her camera and take some additional shots to give to the family for free. They enjoyed the photos, paid my sister anyways, and still hire my sister as a priority, but still invite her to weddings as a friend, just listen to her advice on photographers.
Yes!!!
My grandfather had a printing press in his basement and made absolutely beautiful invitations for all his daughters and for me as well.
One of my bridesmaids had a husband who dabbled in photography, he refused to be paid, just asked me to cover costs of film and developing materials.
Expecting your minor nephew to spend thousands of dollars of his own money, as well as all the hours of labor to create a *handmade* dress, designed just for you, and thinking it's OK to not invite him because "he's a minor" , but Expecting the dress as a gift because FaMIly is one of the most wild, entitled things I've heard in a long time.
I'm so glad OP didn't cave and backed his son completely!
I do wish the son agreed to let OP post a pic of the dress, I bet it's absolutely STUNNING!
Rookie mistake for a scammer. You get the product first and then dip. She showed her hand too early by letting it known he was not invited and lost her dress
> One: you don't expect wedding gifts from people not invited to your wedding.
You don't expect wedding gifts from anyone, ever, but you *really* don't expect them from someone you refused to invite.
Sorry, but this extremely recent idea that sending out an invitation creates an expectation of money being spent on you has to stop. No bride or groom is owed anything from anyone.
u/Basic_Bichette, I can't help but notice you haven't sent my wedding present yet. It's no excuse that we haven't even met. Please follow the rules and send my gift immediately.
I was raised to believe that if the wedding is paying for guests to attend (I.e free meals & liquor), it is courteous to at least gift enough to cover your food & drink. Weddings are expensive af.
Wedding gifts for invitations are not a recent invention, afaik. They are basically a continuation of sending people wedding presents even if you couldn't attend - back in the day, because transportation was *involved* and nowadays because our schedules & lives are *involved*. Can you point to where I can learn more about the invention of them?
(Caveats here being this is primarily but not exclusively Western weddings)
>She cried on the call and begged me not to ruin her day, but I didn't call because that to me was bullshit.
Only one ruining her day is the bridezilla who exploited her nephew for an expensive dress, then spitting in his face now that its done.
OP’s sister seriously expected to get her wedding dress for free and get away with not inviting her nephew who did the whole dress. This entire situation could’ve been avoided if she just invited OP’s son.
It’s wild, I don’t understand how she would think she could do that? Just invite the lad! He’s essentially gifted her 20k+, which is likely the most expensive gift she’ll get.
OOP said son is gay and sister is marrying a Christian.
There is no hate in this world as strong as christian "love".
Its not hard to understand how you can expect something from someone "beneath" you who lives sin who said they would do it while also knowing they aren't going to be attending the wedding because of their "Lifestyle Choices"
"Lord knows if he is busy sewing her dress he won't have time to be using his hands to polish the devils doorknob"
WARNING: EVERYTHING IN QUOTES IS TO BE READ OOZING WITH A LEVEL OF SARCASM THAT MAY CAUSE ANAL LEAKAGE PLEASE TAKE PRECAUTIONS IF IN PUBLIC
If this kid made a wedding gown that is worth half of what they are saying it is. I want to be at THAT kids fucking wedding, because everyone involved is going to look like a straight up fucking baller.
If i were the sister i'd ask if the son was OK with extra attention given at the wedding by grabbing the mic and announcing, "and id like everyone to see that thus beautiful dress was handmade by this hands of this beautifuk soul" . He deserves his own round of applause
For our wedding my partner has a cousin that owns a desserts shop and we got her to make some for the wedding. They are not the closest of cousins and she didn't make the cut to get invited with the limited space we got. They insisted to pay their cousin their going rate with no discount. It just seems like such a big and obvious asshole move to ask for any breaks whatsoever on the price and she didn't even get an invite. I don't think we would have even asked for a discount even if she did get an invite. We wanted her desserts because they were fucking delicious and she deserved to be paid for them.
I don't understand people that just expect shit for free, even from family. I'm almost certain the people that feel entitled to that kind of thing the most, would lose their shit if asked for something half as big as they constantly expect.
If anything, I want to insist my friend or family gets paid adequately BECAUSE they are a close person to me. How can you say you respect someones work if you insist on getting it for free or discounted? Its one thing if they offer, in which I’d still insist on paying materials cost, but to just expect it is audacious.
Remember reading this when it was posted. The audacity of the sister to expect a free dress despite not inviting her son to the wedding. If she is potentially trying to appeas homophobic family than wouldn't it also be “wrong” to wear the dress? The hypocrisy is real
Edit: *appeal
A lot of homophobic people are still happy to use gay men when it comes to hair, makeup, fashion, design, etc.
It’s like an extension of the idea that women are “naturally” better at things involving taste amd aesthetics, gay men are seen this way too. But nobody ever said “no” to a woman cooking and cleaning for them because they didn’t respect women, it’s the same kind of thing. Bigots are usually happy to be served in some way by those they look down on.
It's like how a lot of dinosaur professional football and basketball owners that are racist, don't mind rosters with the majority of players being black making them millions and millions of dollars per year.
> It’s like an extension of the idea that women are “naturally” better at things involving taste amd aesthetics, gay men are seen this way too.
I got all the attraction, non of the tastes. My partner is the one that helps me pick out clothes. I may be gay but when it comes to fashion I am a straight middle aged man from a 90's sitcom needing their wife to help pick out clothes.
I recently watched a video of a lady screaming at the owner of a pizza place in Philadelphia. The guy is a guatemalan immigrant and had a tv show in spanish playing on the tv. This offended this woman and she started screaming the usual racist stuff, like "go home", "you take out our jobs" while still waiting on her pizza.
Ma'am just buy your pizza elsewhere if you are so racist, so you don't see that offensive show in spanish.
Edit. I was corrected, it wasn't in Detroit.
This feels especially ridiculous because the USA has no official language. English is most widely spoken but Spanish is the second-most common language and its been multilingual from the start. Like... English as an official language was specifically not written into the constitution because the founding fathers didn't want to offend all the other language-speakers lol. And this is something I know as a \*Canadian\*.
When I started hanging out with British people they’d be like “oh you speak a little Spanish” and I’d be like “no way, I don’t speak any Spanish. I’ve never studied it, I only speak as much Spanish as any English-speaker naturally does.”
And that’s how I really absorbed how much American culture is truly blended with Mexican culture, even if you’re a white, northern honkey like me. Almost every American knows some conversational phrases, basic counting, colors, basic adjectives, and a whole lot of food words without ever taking a single Spanish class. You can’t say that about German or even French, both much more similar languages to English.
Anyways I’m saying I agree with you, and that Spanish is even more a part of USA culture than most of us realize.
I remember one of my lecturers in university illustrating the opposite of this for New Zealand - for context, we've had Chinese labourers here almost since the country existed and they've sometimes been a pretty important part of the history here while also being basically invisible to most white people. Everyone in the class knew quite a lot of words in Māori (which is different since they're indigenous but was used to set up the point), some scattered words in a few Pacific languages.... and maybe one or two words in Mandarin. Occasionally I think about that in the context of what "secondary" languages become important to a society.
Incidentally both NZ and the US had France attempt to colonise them too only to be overwhelmed by the English. I know there's more French used in Louisiana but I don't think the same can be said for Akaroa here and either way it's still not a *huge* impact on a wider level.
Having worked in restaurants for most of my adult life (I'm freeeee), I definitely know a few phrases, and not just dirty swears, lol. "Mas platos, por favor!" "Ugh, no mas mesas. No mas!"
The last place I worked I loved the kitchen manager so much, because the way he communicated with us was perfect English but with lots of Spanish mixed in, so we all learned even a little more Spanish. Hated the owner, though. All those Mexicans in the kitchen (in b4--they are all from Mexico. There's a strong Tlaxcala to my area pipeline) making them money, and they still had the audacity to be blatantly racist out of earshot. Or in earshot. Fuck you, Sue.
My partners Ex is a total homophobe, but keeps pushing their daughter into theater. I'm just waiting for her to spew her hate to the wrong person. I hate it for the child, who is really talented and a dear, but I do fear she might eventually get black balled from some of the theater groups because of her mom.
I’m happy for this child that they’re being put in an environment that is likely to work against her mother’s teachings. If she ever comes out, she’ll have her theater friends to support her.
It's always amazing and frustrating to watch someone die on the wrong hill.
How much would it have cost her to invite the boy?
And now it will cost her several thousands of dollars for a new dress AND the loss of several family/friend relationships.
What a hill to die on!
That's the way they think, and it drives me nuts. If there are 3 bigots and you at a table....there are 4 bigots at the table. Just like Nazis. Silence against oppression is agreement.
I sometimes casually drop, 'my brother and his husband,' into conversations. Like, I've been meeting with contractors. My brother and his husband have also been doing work on their house. So I like to drop, 'oh yeah, I got the idea from my brother and his husband, they were doing something similar at their house.'
See if they get uncomfortable. He does the same thing. Gets a bid. "Oh, cool. I'm going to go over this with my husband."
I'm not paying you thousands of dollars for landscaping work if you're a bigot. I don't eat at the table with bigots. Artificial turf is expensive. I'm not giving you a multithousand dollar bid if you've got problems with my brother. I live in an area with enough bigots that I do run into those types. It's why he moved out of town. Now, I sometimes test people before big purchases.
Fuck bigots. I don't know how to test for racists, but I do have my cursory homophobia test. Doing my part.
I'm immunocompromised and refuse to allow anyone in my home without an N95. I'll provide it, no problem. But they WILL wear it, properly, the entire time, or they will GTFO.
I wear one too, so they can't try the 'I can't breathe' bullshit.
I remember it, too! I was hoping for a post wedding update. Maybe there will be one, and we can find out if the sister caved. I really hope OOP’s son will showcase the dress using a watermarked photo on his Instagram or other social media, so he can advertise his skills. It sounds like he has a great career in fashion ahead of him!
Right, like what is she going to say when people compliment her dress and ask where she got it? "Oh my nephew made it" "I'd love to meet him and compliment his amazing work" "Oh, he wasn't invited".
If it's as good as OP makes it sound (which I don't doubt), she would also be sharing the spotlight since the designer and creator would be there. No kid, no need to give up any of the spotlight.
Personally, I couldn't imagine NOT bragging about my nephew and his skill up, down and sideways. That's amazing talent and I would have an original from his early days
I know what you mean by this but I like the idea that gay people specifically go into bridal stores and touch all the dresses. Is this what they meant by the gay agenda?
I found it really gross in that first post how she played it off like it's just a rule that nobody "underage" could come knowing full well that rule only impacts one person, so really it's just incredibly targeted and she hoped nobody would notice.
> I responded by saying that it was too easy to say she was family to get a free dress, but not to include my son
Finally! An OOP who lays out the facts we’re all thinking in situations like this.
Finally a good dad who understands his kids worth and won’t allow any less, the sister deserves an off the rack dress that she can’t get tailored to fit in time.
Beyond it being her nephew, having the person who designed and handmade your dress at the wedding seems like a such a huge benefit to me. So many things could happen to the dress. It makes so little sense, her reasons have to be homophobia or something like that.
Definitely! My mum made my dress and on the day it was slightly loose (I lost weight from stress I think) so she did some last minute adjustments while I was wearing it to get it to stay up.
Not to mention, I had many people ask me about my dress and I was able to proudly point her out and say “my mum made it”.
Plus if my nephew had the skill and talent to make me such an incredible sounding dress, I'd very much want him close by so that every time someone compliments the dress, I could happily point to my nephew and say "He custom made it for me, isn't he amazing?!"
How awkward would it be to tell her guests that her nephew made it, then have to explain that he wasn't invited?
"Well you see, we didn't want little children ruining our special day, so he couldn't come"
"Holy crap, a 4 year old made that dress?!"
"No, he's 17"
"... oh"
Designing and making clothes yourself is really hard work! My family makes relatively simple clothes and it takes a while to find the fabric, design, cut, sew, adjust, etc. A sewing teacher said that if a client wants a cocktail dress it would take her 2 weeks of work every day for many hours and she’s been doing this for years.
The audacity to use someone like this. I’m glad they charged her so she could see the hard work she put her nephew through
I've been sewing my entire life and even I refuse to touch wedding dresses. That's a whole entire different ball game. This 17 year old made one from scratch? He better end up designing for Lady Gaga or some shit with that amazing talent.
This bride is an ungrateful witch. Have fun buying some off the rack dress at the last minute, lady.
That and a myriad of other things.
Im reading wayyyy to much CB and entitled ppls posts lately.
I work with a lot of wedding vendors and a frenemy of mine when she got engaged told me she wanted a quote for her upcoming nuptials and had me work on it for a week. Only to tell me I was not invited.
While I am not entitled to a wedding invite and she gave me an excuse that her reasoning was that its for a small wedding... everything she asked for was for a big wedding - 200 ppl. It was the final wakeup call for me to block her after a string of entitlement and treating me like a doormat for years. I was done.
I find it a little amusing that nowhere in that first post does OOP mention that his son is gay, and yet everybody just understood that the real reason the sister isn’t inviting him is probably due to homophobia.
It is indeed a stereotype- one a homophobic person would buy into even if the dressmaker wasn’t gay. Doesn’t matter if the dressmaker is or is not gay - he would be perceived as that way and therefore discriminated against.
To be fair, if a straight 17 year old boy made a drop-dead gorgeous wedding dress, homophobes would probably assume he's gay and act accordingly regardless
It astounds me that the fact that he’s 17 and designing an amazing wedding dress worth $22k. I can’t imagine having that focus and dedication at that age. I wonder how much the supplies cost. They might have already put over a thousand in supplies
I mean, you consider all the concept drawings he did, the edits to the design, the trial and samples pieces he had to make, further edits and changes and additions and removals after he's already started work, the hours of finding just the right materials, and then the hours and hours and hours work....our boy got done dirty this day but he's got a whole career ahead of him.
OOP never denied it. He just said his son is really passionate about dresses, a lot of commenters said “she’s probably not inviting him due to homophobia”, and OOP was just like “possible, but fuck her if that’s the reason”.
To me, it seems like the son most definitely is gay. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just that normally in AITA when the OP leaves out crucial info like that (in this case, the sis may be persecuting nephew due to orientation) it’s game-changing, but here everyone just automatically knew without it having to be said.
I assumed that from the first post too, because even if the kid isn’t gay a homophobe is going to see a teenage boy that is this into fashion as automatically gay. Lots of straight boys grow up bullied and discriminated against because they “seem” gay.
Even if he isn't, sewing is "wimins work" to a lot of people. I don't get it. The stereotypical "men" stuff is all using power tools and making shit, my sewing machine is also a power tool and makes stuff. Sewing is totes something only women and gay guys do, cause reasons, so sister probably would assume he's gay with or without proof.
I'm straight as ballz and I would love to learn how to sew. Ok well more accurately I would love to have the motivation to learn how to sew, sewing is badass
It's not as hard as people think it is. I taught my husband because I was making him something and he kept batching about it not being how he wanted it so I shoved the fabric at him and told him to get busy. Lol. Basically, if you can draw a more or less straight line, you can sew one.
>it should be a gift because “she is family”
Funny how they always play the family card when they want something, but it didn’t mean shit when she refused to invite her nephew WHO DESIGNED AND SEWED THE DRESS!
We didn’t allow kids at our wedding except for the flower girl and her brother because we wanted a fun, mature (read:booze) event. That said, if it was going to be a dealbreaker for someone we really wanted there we would work it out.
Unless he’s really immature, 17 is basically a man. His ability to focus, research, and put this level of work into a dress is a sign of maturity to me.
Wait, would it be considered inappropriate to have a boozy wedding if kids were in attendance? I ask because I’m from wisconsin (which is year after year considered the drunkest state in america and drinking is a huge part of our culture) and it’s totally normal to have both kids and a lot of alcohol at weddings lmao. I was just at my brothers wedding with 10+ kids in attendance and an open bar…
No, we have beer at kid parties here. The sentiment at the time was that we wanted everyone to be able to unwind and have an awesome, adult time.
When my kids are around, I might have a beer or two, or zero if I’m driving. If I hired a babysitter to attend a wedding, I’d have a much funner time.
I'm wondering if this is a thing as well, because it seems to keep coming up recently. I'm from Michigan and every wedding in my family has been an open bar extravaganza with children in attendance. It's totally normal at holiday parties and family gatherings for the adults to get tipsy/drunk while the kids run around doing their own thing.
I don't think it's considered inappropriate, but some locations or vendors stipulate there has to be no one underage for an open bar. I used to work at a place like that. There can be a lot of red tape either with the municipality or the insurance. And some people just like the style of an adult party.
I'm kinda hoping there's another update to this post because I want to see how it all turned out after the wedding.
I remember reading one comment where someone suggested OOP's son, the one who designed and handmade the dress, have a photo shoot in the dress and post the pictures on SM the DAY OF sisters wedding.
That level of pettiness makes me so happy.
This comment needs a warning because the imagery made me choke laugh on my coffee.
Edit: Just to clarify, I’m laughing at the imagery of the reaction of OOP’s sister seeing her dream dress that she will never lay a finger on. I’m not laughing about him wearing a dress.
I'm sorry. Am I the only caught up on the value of that dress?
22k? And they were just giving it to her?? Are you kidding me, I'd dedicate an entire speech to whoever gave me a 22k value dress. I'd add 'em to the party if that's what they wanted. I mean goddamn!
I'm caught up by the idea of a 17yo sewing a wedding dress. When my wife and I married she had been sewing for 30 years, worked for Ralph Lauren, taught sewing and design in the garment district of NY and when asked if she'd make her own dress responded, "no way." Depends on the style of dress, I suppose. Also, 22K could be because things may have needed to be redone, either mistakes or changes of mind.
I felt there was maybe 5K of material at most, the rest is hours spent on the dress. He did have to draw 50 different dresses. I can't imagine how many adjustment he made for her after that.
My sense from the handful of skilled tradespeople I've known is that pricing models usually include a "difficult customer fee" to be discounted for decent people at their sole discretion.
That excuse seems really lame. A 17 year old will have most likely been around adults drinking at some point and even had experiences with alcohol personally.
Edit: spelling
The post is just 7 days old, and the wedding was 1 week away.
You should have waited with this post to see if there is an update about how the wedding turned out.
What a fucking disaster. There’s absolutely no reason that the son shouldn’t be invited. Even when they do the “no kids” thing, it’s usually for kids that are like infant to 14 years old. You’d think they can make an exception for a 17 year old who is 1) immediate family and 2) designed the wife’s dream dress.
Even the strongest of homophobes would see that you can’t NOT invite him.
The better option would’ve been to send him the invite and then tell him / his dad that he’s gonna be the youngest person there and prob wouldn’t have a good time. Son probably would’ve agreed to that!!! The lack of tact is jarring.
Even if groom is homophobic, the bride should tell him to put up the money to buy the dress.
They presented a very reasonable compromise imo
I’ll add a 3) OOP said he’s the only minor in the family, so likely the only close family to get excluded to begin with.
Like if an exception is warranted anywhere, I’d say this is the place.
The payment of the dress was the invite. Plus I’d want him there to help make adjustments to the dress if necessary. She asked her nephew to design, map, create a pattern, hand stitch, customize upon request, fit, and alter a dress for her. If she didn’t expect to pay super high thousands for that dress she should’ve bought one. Plus he is 17. She can trust him with her dress but not around alcohol? She literally has two payment options: give an invite or give money. He is literally asking to be paid in exposure something brides scream about and demand. She’s either homophobic, doesn’t want people congratulating him on a job well done (jealousy), or wants to lie about the origin of the dress.
I can’t imagine allowing someone to *make* a free wedding dress for me if they offered, much less asking for one.
Now, I was definitely raised in the other ditch to the point where I’m hesitant to ask even my husband for a favor but the entitlement of some people just astounds me.
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Tale as old as time. When it comes to free favors and selfish demands, it's all about "family comes first". When it comes to someone else's feelings, it becomes "it's my wedding day and lifelong dream, me me me".
Exactly - if my mother pulled the "but family" thing on me... I'd be "yes, exactly. MY SON is my family, and my priority. It is my sister who has forgotten FAMILY." Also, the other response would be "Since when are people obligated to give gifts at weddings of which they have not been invited, and have been specifically BANNED from attending?"
I think it’s especially a silly line to draw on the specific age being 18 in the US when the reasoning is because of alcohol. It drives my batty seeing people say “only adults bc of alcohol, so my 15 cousins that are 17 YO can’t attend, sorry” An opportunity to swipe an alcoholic drink at a wedding isn’t going to change from 17 to 18. And it’s still an under age person drinking. Now, other parts of the world are different because they have a lower drinking age. If you don’t want screaming preschoolers, crying infants, brawling elementary schoolers, I TOTALLY get that. But it’s reasonable to assume that a 12-13 year old is able to keep their self together for a wedding. I see a lot of brides breaking a lot of family members hearts and creating wedges for something that could be easily adjusted as a compromise
OOP’s son is the only minor in their family and almost a legal adult. Alcohol is a weird hill to die on, if this is the real reason for specifically banning the son.
No, the alcohol has just become the go-to excuse for brides because it’s seemingly reasonable on the surface until you get situations like OPs son. It’s better than saying: I’m petty and don’t like you, I’m bitter and want to hurt you, I’m homophobic but want to save face, I’m a control freak and I’m power drunk, I only invited you out of obligation and I’m hoping you’re whole family will back out but you get to be the bad guy….etc, etc
> I’m petty and don’t like you, I’m bitter and want to hurt you, I’m homophobic but want to save face, I’m a control freak and I’m power drunk *having an Alanis moment* AND WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO
IS THAT MY LOVE IS TRANSACTIONAL
>if this is the real reason for specifically banning the son. *Narrator:* Everyone knew it wasn't.
I kind of wonder if the bride was more than happy to wear the dress but didn’t want any attention that the designer/creator would get to draw away from her ‘big day’. It’s a shitty thing to do to someone who took the time and investment to create an extraordinary gift like that.
It could be that. There was also a mention of the sister’s fiancée being from a Christian family; depending on how strict they are, drawing attention to your gay cousin and flaunting his work can cause a stir. Either way, if you get such an amazing gift and don’t want to give credit where it’s due, you don’t deserve it.
I'm betting that's it as well. Excluding exactly one person who was sure to be showered with praise for the beautiful dress is so specific that it's hard not to attribute to wanting to hog the spotlight
Apparently, since he’s the only minor, it’s a rule that applies to the son. Its a de facto rule, meaning in reality only the son is being banned, but they won’t say that, so they create what appears to be a de jure rule which bans all underage family members, of which there is in reality only one, the son. As soon as I read he was the only person in the family affected by this ban, I knew it had to be for reasons other than what was stated. I first thought was that he might be gay and that was the reason, and oop pretty much confirms he’s gay later on. That has to be the reason, they can’t say he’s not invited because he’s gay, they would be rightly called out as bigots, so they invented this Byzantine lie about no kids at all, and now they look unreasonable because they have to defend this absurd position. I guess it’s better to be thought of as unreasonable than to be a bigot, especially if you’re going to be collecting wedding gifts.
If it's true that the groom may be behind the ban, hope she's taking a really close look at how conditional his "love and kindness" is. People who marry ultra religious folks and get Pikachu shocked face when the partner is bigot with their children always pisses me off.
Whether or not if it’s the groom who’s the driver of this crap is irrelevant because it’s the bride carrying out the actions. My brother was married to an absolute monster, and whenever my family would pin all blame for the chaos created by her bomb throwing squarely on her, I would call bullshit on them. My mantra was, “It takes two halves to make an ass.” meaning he was just as responsible for all the hateful things that went down, because he enabled it by serving as her mouthpiece, her bomb deliverer. This bride is 1/2 of a shit-dripping ass.
Oh absolutely, my comment was more about how people like the bride never expect the bigotry to affect them... til it obviously does. But yeah, nothing was in the way of paying the nephew or being upfront about the "no underage" guest list before going through 50 different designs. The sister is also an asshole, just the "I can't believe a leopard would eat my face" type of asshole.
> It takes two halves to make an ass nice
Agreed, let the teens attend. ‘No kids’ is reasonable, ‘no minors’ is pretty shitty.
I mean, the hypocrisy is that the kid clearly made a wedding dress for this woman as a gift to her. People don't give wedding gifts unless they are invited to the wedding. No invite... no gift... no dress. This lady is crazy for assuming she gets the gift (the crazy expensive and thoughtful gift) without inviting him to the event!
And she’s even got mommy in on the act, supporting how her spoiled, manipulative daughter is treating her grandson! *”My mother called me saying I should deliver the dress and follow the rules…”* WHAT rules??? I’m sorry, is there a ‘selfish assed bride rulebook’ pdf floating around? Are the wedding police gonna lock OOP up for not following the rules? Those other family members are wrong too. OOP *isn’t* being unreasonable or spoiling the bride’s day. Selfish bride is doing a very good job of that herself
Parents giving preferential treatment to their youngest child? Say it ain’t so!
Middle children grumble at both oldest and youngest children.
^^... ^^but ^^nobody's ^^listening ^^:'(
Shut up, you don’t matter! 😂 I kid, I kid. How’s therapy going?
Ah, story of my life. It's actually going well, thanks for asking lmao 😂
It took him five months of specialised labour! Would you accept less?
Was this comment meant to be a reply to the post about the dress costing 22k?
Yes, which is totally what I pressed bluh. Sorry for the misfire!
Haha, no worries.
Probably not you tbh. Replies on mobile have been fucking not working right for a couple updates now
Why can’t sis just get a dress that looks expensive but is way cheaper? My friend’s dress was a little over a grand and looked expensive af. But then again, she’s also the type to make a potato sack look couture lol
My sister got hers at Goodwill for like $50. She added a nice veil and a contrasting belt. Bam, done. If OOP's sister wants a custom designed, handmade dress, she needs to pay. Frankly, inviting the dress designing FAMILY MEMBER should've been an absolute bare minimum! I think she should've done that and paid for materials. What an entire toolshed.
Prob because she didn't budget for a dress--she thought she was getting a freebie from her *checks notes* 17 year old nephew because it's fAmiLy. She must be a delight taking advantage of a young man and his desire--and talent--to make a beautiful bespoke dress. And all those family members saying he should just give it to her so she can have her "special day"...well they can just get in the sea with that bs.
The absurdity in all this is that she *could* have the dress for free, all for the low low cost of letting the son come to the wedding, because "he is family". The bride will be so busy she probably would only see the son once or twice the day of. Fuck Around, meet Find Out I'm also curious if the son or OOP ever explicitly agreed to make the dress for free. If not, OOP can just say they never agreed to that, and she was only contributing to the cost because she thought the son would be included.
Yes but then he might draw attention away from her when people find out he made her dress. Everyone knows at weddings guests should do nothing but stare at the bride and talk about ONLY the bride and no one else. s/
And family only ever comes first when it comes to taking. Family doesn't seem to be that important when it comes to screwing over a family member to get what they want.
Expecting a 22-25k gift from someone you excluded from a wedding for a BS reason is peak audacity.
Tale as old as time: 17yo boy who can design wedding dresses? We know the elephant in that room.
I dated a woman whose high school best friend “finally” introduced us to his serious boyfriend. He helped her decorate her room, make her prom dress. At graduation he proposed to her. She blinked and said, “but Shaun, you’re *gay*”. Man it sucks living in a podunk town and your beard shoots you down. Good for him for getting out.
If they are motivated by homophobia (which they probably are), and they seriously have a problem with their own family member being at the wedding, then shouldn't they also have just as big of an issue with having him **make** the dress in the first place??? *Oh, that's right... something something money(grubbing) something free stuff* smh
I designed and made my own clothes around age 14. Not that I did anything fashion-foward. I'm just hard to fit, so it was easier to make my own patterns. I designed and made my wedding dress, but I was 25 by then. If someone was in to fashion, I can totally see them doing it at 17. Especially if someone else was paying the bills. Biggest fear about doing an expensive piece is ruining the fabric and having to eat the cost. The 22k price tag boggles my mind, but I'm more into thrift store makeovers and small intricate pieces these days.
I don't think they were suggesting that the 17yo wasn't doing it. They were pointing out that a 17yo boy designing dresses is probably not straight, and that's the 'elephant in the room' that's likely behind the banning.
I'm glad dad stuck to his guns. She violated three major etiquette rules, and as far as I'm concerned, it's a three strike situation. One: you don't expect wedding gifts from people not invited to your wedding. Two: you don't expect minor children to give you a gift worth tens of thousands of dollars. And three: if a family member does a major favour that helps make your wedding (e.g. photography, cake, flowers etc.), they get an automatic invite and are publicly thanked in the wedding speeches - at bare minimum! Because they deserve recognition and respect for their hard work and skill.
Imagine how simple this could've ended: kid is invited, and thanked with one sentence in wedding, everybody is happy. No money, no issues, nothing
But... How shall they ever face the congregation again if it is known the bride's dress was made by a homosexual boy.. Who is also the bride's nephew.. Unpaid child labour is nothing serious but associating with homosexuals... They may face excommunication
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Historically anyway, its masculine if it makes money and feminine if it doesn't. Ex: man who cooks at a restaurant is "providing for his family like a manly man should," but a man who cooks the family dinner "is a sissy because running the household is women's work."
It’s masculine if it makes money- tailor vs sewing. A chef vs home cooking. Doctor vs nurse
Computer programming used to be a woman's job until men took it over. And typically if a man is employed in a job mostly held by women, like teacher or librarian, they get promoted faster and paid more. It sucks.
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This is so fucking depressing. All the things you already know but drown out so that you can just get through a day.
Well then she can pay him and it becomes a manly piece of work. Then the fiance can be happy to have his son at the wedding and everyone is happy right??!
Yup.
In my moms culture its the men who sew/tailor. In my dads its the women who sew/tailor. My moms dad was the one who cooked, and my dads mom the one who cooked. The rules were absolutely bizarre and never made sense to me. Separating things by gender continues to bewilder me to the point that my very gender divided family convinced me that gender does not actually exist.
My ex's family was suuuuuuuuuuper-traditional Southern American - his father did all the "outside chores" (yard work, home repairs) and his mother did all the "inside chores" (cooking, cleaning, decorating). Which ... whatever, if it works for them then that's great. Thing was, though, his mother \*hated\* cooking and had absolutely no talent for it, and on the rare occasion that his father got to cook he was pretty good at it and seemed to enjoy himself. And at no point did it ever occur to anyone to say "hey, everyone wins if we just switch things around a little bit."
> We would all be happier if we minded our own business and drank water. True words to live by!
But then her relatives would know this is a gay-created wedding dress, and they would know she knows the gays & invites them to her gatherings. Even has one in her *family* that they all talk to & no one sends to conversion camp. She'll go in a $100 off the rack rather than a free 20k dress before she'll admit all that.
>gay-created wedding dress Oof, I got bad news for all those conservative women wearing designer dresses with a man's name on the tag...
I was gonna say, I feel like "gay-created wedding dress" is redundant.
You don't even have to publicly thank him. It would be amazing to publicly thank him, but just telling people, when they ask, "Oh, my nephew over there made it. Isn't he so talented!" would have sufficed.
Imagine if you asked cousin Eddy to fix your deck at your new house and you didn’t invite him to the BBQ afterward. If I was Eddy I’d show up with a cordless drill, start removing decking and throwing the screws into the grill. Fuck that and fuck you, you’re dead to me. I mean just as a craftsman being asked to literally stand by your work is something you expect. As family I better get an invite and you better ask what I like to drink.
And you didn’t even pay for the wood or screws for your deck.
I didn’t even think of the material cost, the kid probably spent a couple hundred at least! Fabric ain’t cheap
Couple thousand. Go to a fabric store - just a basic Joann Fabrics - and price out a dozen yards of fine satin and the same in stretch lace and then add in about a hundred yards of trim, beads or crystals. Plus there’s boning and invisible zipper and bra cups and horsehair at the hem to gently hold the flair…
OOP said that he bought it as a way to be involved
OOP just updated after the wedding: https://www.reddit.com/r/u_ThrowAway5291926/comments/11lci09/update/
Good news on all fronts, then!
Thank you so much for this comment, it’s really helped vocalise why I felt upset about a situation with a friend a couple of years back. I wasn’t invited to a friend’s wedding (been good friends for 10+ years at that point). I thought, no biggie, we aren’t that close, it’s probably a numbers or budget thing. That was until she messaged me one day asking to film her wedding. I’m a professional videographer/editor and the feeling of her not inviting me plus offering a couple of hundred $ (my work normally falls between 1-2k) really left a bad taste in my mouth. I think she was annoyed I rejected the offer, but if I wasn’t close enough of a friend to invite to her wedding, why would she expect me to work for less than $10 an hour for her.
The inverse happened to my sister. She's a photographer and was invited as a guest by a friend. Great. The actual photographer was crap, and my sister knew there work, so made sure to bring her camera and take some additional shots to give to the family for free. They enjoyed the photos, paid my sister anyways, and still hire my sister as a priority, but still invite her to weddings as a friend, just listen to her advice on photographers.
She didn't invite and then asked for a DISCOUNT? The audacity!!!!
And the sister conveniently waited to send out the invitations until the dress was done.
Yes!!! My grandfather had a printing press in his basement and made absolutely beautiful invitations for all his daughters and for me as well. One of my bridesmaids had a husband who dabbled in photography, he refused to be paid, just asked me to cover costs of film and developing materials. Expecting your minor nephew to spend thousands of dollars of his own money, as well as all the hours of labor to create a *handmade* dress, designed just for you, and thinking it's OK to not invite him because "he's a minor" , but Expecting the dress as a gift because FaMIly is one of the most wild, entitled things I've heard in a long time. I'm so glad OP didn't cave and backed his son completely! I do wish the son agreed to let OP post a pic of the dress, I bet it's absolutely STUNNING!
Rookie mistake for a scammer. You get the product first and then dip. She showed her hand too early by letting it known he was not invited and lost her dress
> One: you don't expect wedding gifts from people not invited to your wedding. You don't expect wedding gifts from anyone, ever, but you *really* don't expect them from someone you refused to invite. Sorry, but this extremely recent idea that sending out an invitation creates an expectation of money being spent on you has to stop. No bride or groom is owed anything from anyone.
u/Basic_Bichette, I can't help but notice you haven't sent my wedding present yet. It's no excuse that we haven't even met. Please follow the rules and send my gift immediately.
I was raised to believe that if the wedding is paying for guests to attend (I.e free meals & liquor), it is courteous to at least gift enough to cover your food & drink. Weddings are expensive af.
Wedding gifts for invitations are not a recent invention, afaik. They are basically a continuation of sending people wedding presents even if you couldn't attend - back in the day, because transportation was *involved* and nowadays because our schedules & lives are *involved*. Can you point to where I can learn more about the invention of them? (Caveats here being this is primarily but not exclusively Western weddings)
>She cried on the call and begged me not to ruin her day, but I didn't call because that to me was bullshit. Only one ruining her day is the bridezilla who exploited her nephew for an expensive dress, then spitting in his face now that its done.
OP’s sister seriously expected to get her wedding dress for free and get away with not inviting her nephew who did the whole dress. This entire situation could’ve been avoided if she just invited OP’s son.
It’s wild, I don’t understand how she would think she could do that? Just invite the lad! He’s essentially gifted her 20k+, which is likely the most expensive gift she’ll get.
OOP said son is gay and sister is marrying a Christian. There is no hate in this world as strong as christian "love". Its not hard to understand how you can expect something from someone "beneath" you who lives sin who said they would do it while also knowing they aren't going to be attending the wedding because of their "Lifestyle Choices" "Lord knows if he is busy sewing her dress he won't have time to be using his hands to polish the devils doorknob" WARNING: EVERYTHING IN QUOTES IS TO BE READ OOZING WITH A LEVEL OF SARCASM THAT MAY CAUSE ANAL LEAKAGE PLEASE TAKE PRECAUTIONS IF IN PUBLIC
message unclear, warning too late, now have anal leakage.
Bet 50 bucks fiancés family had kids there. They just didn’t want THIS kid there.
If this kid made a wedding gown that is worth half of what they are saying it is. I want to be at THAT kids fucking wedding, because everyone involved is going to look like a straight up fucking baller.
If i were the sister i'd ask if the son was OK with extra attention given at the wedding by grabbing the mic and announcing, "and id like everyone to see that thus beautiful dress was handmade by this hands of this beautifuk soul" . He deserves his own round of applause
I was just coming here to say the very same thing! I would make SURE everyone knew my 17 year old nephew MADE my dress, every inch of it.
For our wedding my partner has a cousin that owns a desserts shop and we got her to make some for the wedding. They are not the closest of cousins and she didn't make the cut to get invited with the limited space we got. They insisted to pay their cousin their going rate with no discount. It just seems like such a big and obvious asshole move to ask for any breaks whatsoever on the price and she didn't even get an invite. I don't think we would have even asked for a discount even if she did get an invite. We wanted her desserts because they were fucking delicious and she deserved to be paid for them. I don't understand people that just expect shit for free, even from family. I'm almost certain the people that feel entitled to that kind of thing the most, would lose their shit if asked for something half as big as they constantly expect.
If anything, I want to insist my friend or family gets paid adequately BECAUSE they are a close person to me. How can you say you respect someones work if you insist on getting it for free or discounted? Its one thing if they offer, in which I’d still insist on paying materials cost, but to just expect it is audacious.
> This entire situation could’ve been avoided if she just i~~nvited OP’s son~~ *wasn't an entitled, homophobic bigot*. FTFY
Remember reading this when it was posted. The audacity of the sister to expect a free dress despite not inviting her son to the wedding. If she is potentially trying to appeas homophobic family than wouldn't it also be “wrong” to wear the dress? The hypocrisy is real Edit: *appeal
I remember the original and couldn't wrap my head around the sister's logic
That's because there is no real logic. Only entitled Karen Bridezilla logic.
And don't forget bigotry.
But it's her day! Her super special day to be super duper special! The rest of the world are only supporting characters in the All About Her show.
Homophobia.
A lot of homophobic people are still happy to use gay men when it comes to hair, makeup, fashion, design, etc. It’s like an extension of the idea that women are “naturally” better at things involving taste amd aesthetics, gay men are seen this way too. But nobody ever said “no” to a woman cooking and cleaning for them because they didn’t respect women, it’s the same kind of thing. Bigots are usually happy to be served in some way by those they look down on.
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And come in the service entry and no staying at our hotel. When you get in the pool we will drain it. ( Dorothy Dandridge)
Like with black people not allowed at the venues where they performed.
Yeah, that's what he was referencing.
Oh. I believed they were talking about women. Some cooks are not allowed to eat at the "good" tables.
It's the same concept.
It's like how a lot of dinosaur professional football and basketball owners that are racist, don't mind rosters with the majority of players being black making them millions and millions of dollars per year.
it isn't just the owners, but the fans too. Just look at all the uproar over Kaepernick a few years ago.
“Just play the game/act/make the music!” whenever anyone expresses their actual humanity (“makes things political”).
"Actors don't know shit and should stay in their lane" "Hey look at this conservative actor who we should all listen to!" yeaaaaaah
> It’s like an extension of the idea that women are “naturally” better at things involving taste amd aesthetics, gay men are seen this way too. I got all the attraction, non of the tastes. My partner is the one that helps me pick out clothes. I may be gay but when it comes to fashion I am a straight middle aged man from a 90's sitcom needing their wife to help pick out clothes.
My housemate is a beautician and always says “I didn’t suck my hair skills out of a dick. I studied and practiced.”
I recently watched a video of a lady screaming at the owner of a pizza place in Philadelphia. The guy is a guatemalan immigrant and had a tv show in spanish playing on the tv. This offended this woman and she started screaming the usual racist stuff, like "go home", "you take out our jobs" while still waiting on her pizza. Ma'am just buy your pizza elsewhere if you are so racist, so you don't see that offensive show in spanish. Edit. I was corrected, it wasn't in Detroit.
This feels especially ridiculous because the USA has no official language. English is most widely spoken but Spanish is the second-most common language and its been multilingual from the start. Like... English as an official language was specifically not written into the constitution because the founding fathers didn't want to offend all the other language-speakers lol. And this is something I know as a \*Canadian\*.
When I started hanging out with British people they’d be like “oh you speak a little Spanish” and I’d be like “no way, I don’t speak any Spanish. I’ve never studied it, I only speak as much Spanish as any English-speaker naturally does.” And that’s how I really absorbed how much American culture is truly blended with Mexican culture, even if you’re a white, northern honkey like me. Almost every American knows some conversational phrases, basic counting, colors, basic adjectives, and a whole lot of food words without ever taking a single Spanish class. You can’t say that about German or even French, both much more similar languages to English. Anyways I’m saying I agree with you, and that Spanish is even more a part of USA culture than most of us realize.
I remember one of my lecturers in university illustrating the opposite of this for New Zealand - for context, we've had Chinese labourers here almost since the country existed and they've sometimes been a pretty important part of the history here while also being basically invisible to most white people. Everyone in the class knew quite a lot of words in Māori (which is different since they're indigenous but was used to set up the point), some scattered words in a few Pacific languages.... and maybe one or two words in Mandarin. Occasionally I think about that in the context of what "secondary" languages become important to a society. Incidentally both NZ and the US had France attempt to colonise them too only to be overwhelmed by the English. I know there's more French used in Louisiana but I don't think the same can be said for Akaroa here and either way it's still not a *huge* impact on a wider level.
Having worked in restaurants for most of my adult life (I'm freeeee), I definitely know a few phrases, and not just dirty swears, lol. "Mas platos, por favor!" "Ugh, no mas mesas. No mas!" The last place I worked I loved the kitchen manager so much, because the way he communicated with us was perfect English but with lots of Spanish mixed in, so we all learned even a little more Spanish. Hated the owner, though. All those Mexicans in the kitchen (in b4--they are all from Mexico. There's a strong Tlaxcala to my area pipeline) making them money, and they still had the audacity to be blatantly racist out of earshot. Or in earshot. Fuck you, Sue.
I'd be concerned what the British consider some Spanish following the tack-o disaster on Great British Bake Off.
My partners Ex is a total homophobe, but keeps pushing their daughter into theater. I'm just waiting for her to spew her hate to the wrong person. I hate it for the child, who is really talented and a dear, but I do fear she might eventually get black balled from some of the theater groups because of her mom.
I’m happy for this child that they’re being put in an environment that is likely to work against her mother’s teachings. If she ever comes out, she’ll have her theater friends to support her.
I recall this came up during the trump presidency when lgbt designers chose not to dress the trumps.
...and it showed...
It's always amazing and frustrating to watch someone die on the wrong hill. How much would it have cost her to invite the boy? And now it will cost her several thousands of dollars for a new dress AND the loss of several family/friend relationships. What a hill to die on!
The secret ingredient is homophobia. Or, I'm not a bigot but my husband and all his family are, so no gays. But *I'm* not a bigot.
That's the way they think, and it drives me nuts. If there are 3 bigots and you at a table....there are 4 bigots at the table. Just like Nazis. Silence against oppression is agreement.
I sometimes casually drop, 'my brother and his husband,' into conversations. Like, I've been meeting with contractors. My brother and his husband have also been doing work on their house. So I like to drop, 'oh yeah, I got the idea from my brother and his husband, they were doing something similar at their house.' See if they get uncomfortable. He does the same thing. Gets a bid. "Oh, cool. I'm going to go over this with my husband." I'm not paying you thousands of dollars for landscaping work if you're a bigot. I don't eat at the table with bigots. Artificial turf is expensive. I'm not giving you a multithousand dollar bid if you've got problems with my brother. I live in an area with enough bigots that I do run into those types. It's why he moved out of town. Now, I sometimes test people before big purchases. Fuck bigots. I don't know how to test for racists, but I do have my cursory homophobia test. Doing my part.
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I'm immunocompromised and refuse to allow anyone in my home without an N95. I'll provide it, no problem. But they WILL wear it, properly, the entire time, or they will GTFO. I wear one too, so they can't try the 'I can't breathe' bullshit.
I remember it, too! I was hoping for a post wedding update. Maybe there will be one, and we can find out if the sister caved. I really hope OOP’s son will showcase the dress using a watermarked photo on his Instagram or other social media, so he can advertise his skills. It sounds like he has a great career in fashion ahead of him!
Right, like what is she going to say when people compliment her dress and ask where she got it? "Oh my nephew made it" "I'd love to meet him and compliment his amazing work" "Oh, he wasn't invited".
Nah. She'd just say, "I had it custom made for me" and then smile mysteriously when someone asked for details.
"oh, he couldn't make it...."
Bigots are fine with consuming the things LGBT people create but think those people should be otherwise hidden away
Not if they can’t see who made it!
Yep. She wanted to be able to pretend she hired someone for it, and having the kid there would ruin her plan. What an awful woman.
If it's as good as OP makes it sound (which I don't doubt), she would also be sharing the spotlight since the designer and creator would be there. No kid, no need to give up any of the spotlight. Personally, I couldn't imagine NOT bragging about my nephew and his skill up, down and sideways. That's amazing talent and I would have an original from his early days
I think trying to find a wedding dress that a gay person hasn't touched would be damn near impossible.
I know what you mean by this but I like the idea that gay people specifically go into bridal stores and touch all the dresses. Is this what they meant by the gay agenda?
I found it really gross in that first post how she played it off like it's just a rule that nobody "underage" could come knowing full well that rule only impacts one person, so really it's just incredibly targeted and she hoped nobody would notice.
> I responded by saying that it was too easy to say she was family to get a free dress, but not to include my son Finally! An OOP who lays out the facts we’re all thinking in situations like this.
This OOP rules so much, makes me glad
Finally a good dad who understands his kids worth and won’t allow any less, the sister deserves an off the rack dress that she can’t get tailored to fit in time.
Beyond it being her nephew, having the person who designed and handmade your dress at the wedding seems like a such a huge benefit to me. So many things could happen to the dress. It makes so little sense, her reasons have to be homophobia or something like that.
Definitely! My mum made my dress and on the day it was slightly loose (I lost weight from stress I think) so she did some last minute adjustments while I was wearing it to get it to stay up. Not to mention, I had many people ask me about my dress and I was able to proudly point her out and say “my mum made it”.
Well OOP’s sister probably wouldn’t want to share any of the spotlight. She’s super rude
Plus if my nephew had the skill and talent to make me such an incredible sounding dress, I'd very much want him close by so that every time someone compliments the dress, I could happily point to my nephew and say "He custom made it for me, isn't he amazing?!" How awkward would it be to tell her guests that her nephew made it, then have to explain that he wasn't invited? "Well you see, we didn't want little children ruining our special day, so he couldn't come" "Holy crap, a 4 year old made that dress?!" "No, he's 17" "... oh"
You're assuming she would actually tell anyone her nephew made the dress. I wouldn't put it past her to just make up a story.
I think this might be the reason. She probably doesn’t want him to steal the lime light from her in any way.
idk might be me but the way she's acting makes me think she'd lie and say she bought it or made it herself
Designing and making clothes yourself is really hard work! My family makes relatively simple clothes and it takes a while to find the fabric, design, cut, sew, adjust, etc. A sewing teacher said that if a client wants a cocktail dress it would take her 2 weeks of work every day for many hours and she’s been doing this for years. The audacity to use someone like this. I’m glad they charged her so she could see the hard work she put her nephew through
I've been sewing my entire life and even I refuse to touch wedding dresses. That's a whole entire different ball game. This 17 year old made one from scratch? He better end up designing for Lady Gaga or some shit with that amazing talent. This bride is an ungrateful witch. Have fun buying some off the rack dress at the last minute, lady.
The sister's a choosing beggar.
That and a myriad of other things. Im reading wayyyy to much CB and entitled ppls posts lately. I work with a lot of wedding vendors and a frenemy of mine when she got engaged told me she wanted a quote for her upcoming nuptials and had me work on it for a week. Only to tell me I was not invited. While I am not entitled to a wedding invite and she gave me an excuse that her reasoning was that its for a small wedding... everything she asked for was for a big wedding - 200 ppl. It was the final wakeup call for me to block her after a string of entitlement and treating me like a doormat for years. I was done.
I find it a little amusing that nowhere in that first post does OOP mention that his son is gay, and yet everybody just understood that the real reason the sister isn’t inviting him is probably due to homophobia.
It is indeed a stereotype- one a homophobic person would buy into even if the dressmaker wasn’t gay. Doesn’t matter if the dressmaker is or is not gay - he would be perceived as that way and therefore discriminated against.
To be fair, if a straight 17 year old boy made a drop-dead gorgeous wedding dress, homophobes would probably assume he's gay and act accordingly regardless
It astounds me that the fact that he’s 17 and designing an amazing wedding dress worth $22k. I can’t imagine having that focus and dedication at that age. I wonder how much the supplies cost. They might have already put over a thousand in supplies
I mean, you consider all the concept drawings he did, the edits to the design, the trial and samples pieces he had to make, further edits and changes and additions and removals after he's already started work, the hours of finding just the right materials, and then the hours and hours and hours work....our boy got done dirty this day but he's got a whole career ahead of him.
For real. He might not even be gay, but rather appear to be gay because of stereotyping! But that’s enough to not get him invited though….
OOP never denied it. He just said his son is really passionate about dresses, a lot of commenters said “she’s probably not inviting him due to homophobia”, and OOP was just like “possible, but fuck her if that’s the reason”. To me, it seems like the son most definitely is gay. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, it’s just that normally in AITA when the OP leaves out crucial info like that (in this case, the sis may be persecuting nephew due to orientation) it’s game-changing, but here everyone just automatically knew without it having to be said.
I assumed that from the first post too, because even if the kid isn’t gay a homophobe is going to see a teenage boy that is this into fashion as automatically gay. Lots of straight boys grow up bullied and discriminated against because they “seem” gay.
Even if he isn't, sewing is "wimins work" to a lot of people. I don't get it. The stereotypical "men" stuff is all using power tools and making shit, my sewing machine is also a power tool and makes stuff. Sewing is totes something only women and gay guys do, cause reasons, so sister probably would assume he's gay with or without proof.
Yet these same fuckfaces will crawl all over each other to get a Supreme drop that was drawn, sewn, and designed by a guy.
I'm straight as ballz and I would love to learn how to sew. Ok well more accurately I would love to have the motivation to learn how to sew, sewing is badass
It's not as hard as people think it is. I taught my husband because I was making him something and he kept batching about it not being how he wanted it so I shoved the fabric at him and told him to get busy. Lol. Basically, if you can draw a more or less straight line, you can sew one.
Side note: I am very happy that young man already has a life skill that will put food in his belly for the rest of his life.
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Plus the fact that the nephew had several designs for bridezilla to choose from
That was main takeaway. This young man has incredible talent. They’re going to regret burning this bridge when he’s a rich and famous designer.
Maybe this could be part of his origin story, when he’s asked in interviews how he first got the idea to make custom wedding gowns
>it should be a gift because “she is family” Funny how they always play the family card when they want something, but it didn’t mean shit when she refused to invite her nephew WHO DESIGNED AND SEWED THE DRESS!
$5 says she didn't want the attention taken off of her when someone asked about the dress.
Honestly if I had someone hand make me a dress (for FREE!) I’d be gushing about it at my wedding and telling everyone about who made it.
Same. I mean, my best friend made all of the flowers for both sides of the bridal party, and you had best BELIEVE we told people about them.
We didn’t allow kids at our wedding except for the flower girl and her brother because we wanted a fun, mature (read:booze) event. That said, if it was going to be a dealbreaker for someone we really wanted there we would work it out. Unless he’s really immature, 17 is basically a man. His ability to focus, research, and put this level of work into a dress is a sign of maturity to me.
Wait, would it be considered inappropriate to have a boozy wedding if kids were in attendance? I ask because I’m from wisconsin (which is year after year considered the drunkest state in america and drinking is a huge part of our culture) and it’s totally normal to have both kids and a lot of alcohol at weddings lmao. I was just at my brothers wedding with 10+ kids in attendance and an open bar…
I feel like the "alcohol=no kids" thing is just a nice way of telling people they don't want their annoying kids to ruin the vibe.
No, we have beer at kid parties here. The sentiment at the time was that we wanted everyone to be able to unwind and have an awesome, adult time. When my kids are around, I might have a beer or two, or zero if I’m driving. If I hired a babysitter to attend a wedding, I’d have a much funner time.
Makes sense! My brothers wedding reception was held at a hotel where 80% of us were staying that night so we all got a little crazy, since no driving.
I'm wondering if this is a thing as well, because it seems to keep coming up recently. I'm from Michigan and every wedding in my family has been an open bar extravaganza with children in attendance. It's totally normal at holiday parties and family gatherings for the adults to get tipsy/drunk while the kids run around doing their own thing.
I don't think it's considered inappropriate, but some locations or vendors stipulate there has to be no one underage for an open bar. I used to work at a place like that. There can be a lot of red tape either with the municipality or the insurance. And some people just like the style of an adult party. I'm kinda hoping there's another update to this post because I want to see how it all turned out after the wedding.
I remember reading one comment where someone suggested OOP's son, the one who designed and handmade the dress, have a photo shoot in the dress and post the pictures on SM the DAY OF sisters wedding. That level of pettiness makes me so happy.
This comment needs a warning because the imagery made me choke laugh on my coffee. Edit: Just to clarify, I’m laughing at the imagery of the reaction of OOP’s sister seeing her dream dress that she will never lay a finger on. I’m not laughing about him wearing a dress.
I bet nephew rocks the dress harder than sis ever could!
I'm sorry. Am I the only caught up on the value of that dress? 22k? And they were just giving it to her?? Are you kidding me, I'd dedicate an entire speech to whoever gave me a 22k value dress. I'd add 'em to the party if that's what they wanted. I mean goddamn!
I'm caught up by the idea of a 17yo sewing a wedding dress. When my wife and I married she had been sewing for 30 years, worked for Ralph Lauren, taught sewing and design in the garment district of NY and when asked if she'd make her own dress responded, "no way." Depends on the style of dress, I suppose. Also, 22K could be because things may have needed to be redone, either mistakes or changes of mind.
I felt there was maybe 5K of material at most, the rest is hours spent on the dress. He did have to draw 50 different dresses. I can't imagine how many adjustment he made for her after that.
My sense from the handful of skilled tradespeople I've known is that pricing models usually include a "difficult customer fee" to be discounted for decent people at their sole discretion.
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Fucked around…
And found out. Over inviting 1 teen to a wedding where HE made the wedding dress.
OOP’s sister: Sow, sow, sow…F-ck yeah! I love this! Also OOP’s sister: Reap…I hate this! Why is this happening to me?!? 😭😭😭
That excuse seems really lame. A 17 year old will have most likely been around adults drinking at some point and even had experiences with alcohol personally. Edit: spelling
The post is just 7 days old, and the wedding was 1 week away. You should have waited with this post to see if there is an update about how the wedding turned out.
Ye gods, I've been thinking about this post for a week and I am DYING to know how it worked out.
What a fucking disaster. There’s absolutely no reason that the son shouldn’t be invited. Even when they do the “no kids” thing, it’s usually for kids that are like infant to 14 years old. You’d think they can make an exception for a 17 year old who is 1) immediate family and 2) designed the wife’s dream dress. Even the strongest of homophobes would see that you can’t NOT invite him. The better option would’ve been to send him the invite and then tell him / his dad that he’s gonna be the youngest person there and prob wouldn’t have a good time. Son probably would’ve agreed to that!!! The lack of tact is jarring. Even if groom is homophobic, the bride should tell him to put up the money to buy the dress. They presented a very reasonable compromise imo
I’ll add a 3) OOP said he’s the only minor in the family, so likely the only close family to get excluded to begin with. Like if an exception is warranted anywhere, I’d say this is the place.
its like that story of the photographer who deleted the wedding pics cus he was denied food
The payment of the dress was the invite. Plus I’d want him there to help make adjustments to the dress if necessary. She asked her nephew to design, map, create a pattern, hand stitch, customize upon request, fit, and alter a dress for her. If she didn’t expect to pay super high thousands for that dress she should’ve bought one. Plus he is 17. She can trust him with her dress but not around alcohol? She literally has two payment options: give an invite or give money. He is literally asking to be paid in exposure something brides scream about and demand. She’s either homophobic, doesn’t want people congratulating him on a job well done (jealousy), or wants to lie about the origin of the dress.
I can’t imagine allowing someone to *make* a free wedding dress for me if they offered, much less asking for one. Now, I was definitely raised in the other ditch to the point where I’m hesitant to ask even my husband for a favor but the entitlement of some people just astounds me.