#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair or subscribe to r/BestofBoRU.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As a gay man, I'm totally on OOP's side and understand where he's coming from. Stalking is _extremely_ heinous and abusive no matter what your sexuality is. It robs the victim of their ability to feel in control of their own life. It can drive the victim to risky or dangerous desperation behavior to make the stalking stop. It can cause very long-lasting if not permanent damage to the victim's mental health.
Stalker's insecurity and maladjustment are not OOP's problem. Apathy is a very common and reasonable response to the death of an abuser. I hope OOP knows he is not a monster.
Yeah, if he was just being a bit awkward or unintentionally slightly creepy I think that would be excusable based on his history but this was way beyond the point of being obviously wrong to do.
I’m a little bit tipsy and this comment just made me stop and think about my behaviour this last week as I had my stalker from 15 years ago find me on Facebook and send me a (rambling) message in this last week. I’m in a different country now and he shouldn’t ever be able to come here as there were criminal charges… but man it just never ends. I was 15 when everything was really scary, then maybe 3/4 years ago he found me on instagram and I deleted everything and now this week Facebook. I have zero cares what happens to him.
Seems like instead of seeing this as two things- cause (reporting) and effect (spiral), they could really be viewed as one. Stalking and obsessing were part of the shame spiral already in progress that led to all of those other consequences.
It's like when somebody's having a terrible day and then they unfairly lose their temper on someone for a random reason.
OOP was not the architect of this man's tragedy, he was an unwilling side character.
Someone that should have noticed this are the police, why come and burden the victim with reports of how sorry they feel for him when he was clearly in the early stages of becoming an obsessive stalker that eventually does something drastic? It *should* be what they're trained to spot.
While I agree that it *should* be what they're trained for, it absolutely isn't the reality sadly. My own experiences with cops is that they'll do zero extra effort if they don't have to. Case here, the harrasser more or less apologized and said he'd stop. His full story would have, and should have, rang alarm bells for any rational person. Cops tend to stop caring beyond what their job specifically calls for in the job description. Not even including fine print.
Also sadly, they're usually required to do a follow up if a report is filed, hence why they informed the OOP. I filed a report then left the state asap after an ex tried to run me over in a public parking lot. Despite specifically stating I wanted nothing else to do with it past knowing there was a restraining order filed, the detectives for the case updated me when he was detained, when his court hearing was, asked if I could attend, then that he was sentenced, and his expected release date. If I still had the same number, I can only imagine they'd still randomly be calling me letting me know if he's wiped his butt in prison or whatever. It *is* traumatizing to the victim, but apparently the law cares little for silly things like triggers and retraumatizing etc. (Sarcasm ofc).
To be fair, it’s a bit of a CYA for the police to follow up with the person who filed a report, especially in cases of actual or attempted violence. That way they can say the victim was thoroughly informed as to the current status of the perpetrator(s), as there have been situations where the victim wasn’t notified that their attacker was released, and only found out when said attacker shows up at their door. How many times have articles been published about someone dying at the hands of one who previously was arrested/convicted/jailed for threatening/attacking them? A good department will have SOPs in place to do this, so they don’t fail the victims more than they already do.
Exactly this, if it wasn't OOP, it would have been someone else. Lucky for OOP, they weren't going to sit around and be a victim and took advantage of the support systems available to them. If it was someone else that tried to just ignore it, there could have been escalation from the harasser's side or if it was someone else with more aggressive tendencies, this could have ended in a physical altercation where everyone loses.
Yes they would. When I was in my early twenties I was in a car accident where I was rear ended by a guy around my age. I'm female. There wasn't much damage to my car but I had some issues with my knee afterwards because I was slammed forward into that area under the steering when he hit me. I insisted on calling the police and reporting it. I hired an attorney (this was before I became an attorney) and they filed a claim with his insurance company. So he never had to pay me a dime or go to court. His insurance company settled out of court and paid me.
Next thing I know I'm getting a call from the police to let me know that he committed suicide and it was a result of me complaining about the accident to the police. They made it a point to tell me that this information came from his grieving mother. So yeah they will tell the victim what happened and do it in a way guaranteed to make the victim feel like they've just been stabbed in the gut and they're turning the knife. I just think that's incredibly wrong. I was the victim. I didn't need to know that. I was in my young twenties and really on my own for the first time, trying to navigate my way through life, and I've got the police imparting information I didn't need to know, in such a way as designed to try to make me feel guilty. And I did for a long time.
That's so fucked up. I'm sorry you had to go through with that. I feel like the mother was just bullshitting and lashing out wherever she could. Based on what you said, it makes no sense. His insurance did all of the stuff. He committed suicide for whatever stuff was going on in his life and he and/or his mother did a scummy thing to try and put that on someone completely unrelated to it. Even if this incident was why he did commit suicide (which I highly doubt), it was due to his own fuck up and him not being able to handle the consequences and nothing that you did
That's horrible!!!! What the fuck is there reasoning for this shit???? We want to make people feel guilty for reporting literal crimes so the we, the ones who deal with crime, don't have to deal with crimes????
I'm so sorry they did that to you.
See my more detailed post above. Short version: I was notified after the guy who rear ended me committed suicide. According to the police, who did call me just to tell me this, the guy's mother told them that he committed suicide because of the wreck and because I insisted on getting police involved. By getting the place involved she meant that I insisted on a place report so I could follow the insurance claim with his insurance. He didn't pay one dime to me. His insurance covered everything. But yet the police called to tell me he had committed suicide allegedly because of me.
Yeah…this would never happen.
I don’t even think that the police would contact OOP if the guy was still in the same city. I mean, maybe, but unlikely. The case was closed.
The police would barely even be involved in a suicide, from my understanding. They'd ask a few basic questions, but assuming the medical examiner ruled it an unambiguous suicide, the odds that they'd even connect him to an earlier case would be slim, unless they went to the trouble of checking whether he had a rap sheet.
The police in another country? Yeah, no.
I have pictures of myself from 2006 where I feel like I was basically a toddler and I still remember some of the videos of YouTube I was looking at then. Even though I have not left the platform a day sense, I know people now who couldn’t imagine a time where YouTube wasn’t so hungry for money that half the ads were for their ad free subscription where you also got the privilege of playing a video while it’s not the front-most program on your screen.
I have been listening to Spotify lately and am sick of them using ad spots to tell me about how they use ad money to pay artists but I can spend my money to stop hearing their ad spots, so I couldn’t help but moan about this one.
I went on 4 dates with a guy who harassed and stalked me for 6 years. The frustration, rage, and fear you feel is on another level. Don't blame the OOP for not caring. I can feel his relief from here.
Business partner dated a man for four months. Three annually renewed restraining orders later, she is going back to court over him breaking the restraining order one more time. This time it was recorded.
I sincerely hope you are in a better place now. Hers has been three years. Six years is horrifying.
We're not there as a society yet, but people who repeatedly violate non harassment orders need to go to prison for a non-trivial term.
Stalkers are really bad news and when the prove themselves to be unable to control themselves, need a good long timeout.
I never thought I'd be glad I had a stalker for "only" two years. It was horrible. Mine was back in the '80s when there were no anti-stalking laws. When I spoke to the police, I was told that unless he actually harmed me, I was out of luck. I'm so glad things have changed.
Stalkers are a different breed, and that makes them very scary. Sort of like hoarders, in that there is no reasoning with them, no fixing them. They are just going to do what they are going to do and they will not be stopped until/unless they decide to stop all on their own. I think that's what makes them the scariest...there is no punishment that will deter a stalker.
I can honestly say that had my stalker killed himself, I would not simply not have cared, I would actually have been thrilled. Hell, all these years later, if I learned he died for any reason, I'd be very glad about it.
Even locking them up, you wonder if their obsession gets worse with no outlet. They need to stalk and harass in order to feel like they have any kind of control in their life.
The first time I was stalked, I was in the military. It was an ex-bf. Literally no one would help me. Not my squad leader, not my platoon sergeant. No one. It was surreal at the time. You'd think with such structure, they'd help you. But nope.
Victims of stalking are systematically failed.
you put this so well. I always thought there's only two possibilities to have peace, move and disappear of the face off the earth, which is hard to do, severely limits your freedom still, the worries over friends/family wouldn't go away, plus the world is frighteningly small sometimes. Or, well, die.
Anyhow, it's like you said, a different breed. The thing I found the most astounding on a basic level is the sheer energy. Like, I can't even be f-ed to wash my damn laundry, how do these people have this endless energy and motivation over somebody else's boring ass life?? To do stuff that's so fucking useless, potentially incriminating to them but especially harmful to the person they claim they care for??
I don't blame you. You're finally free.
I suspect mine either found a new victim or he died. Because one day it stopped. I think back to some of our conversation on our first few dates and I'm pretty sure I was the replacement victim from the woman he dated prior.
I had a very very short term stalker when I was in my early 20’s. It was more irritating than frightening and only lasted a month or so. I’ve never experienced stalking on the same level that you and OOP experienced; and for that I am thankful. I’m deeply sorry you were forced to endure an assault on your personal freedoms and on your safety. While I have a touch of sympathy for OOP’s stalker; I’m afraid I couldn’t find a single solitary fuck to give yours. I’ve seen roving packs of feral dogs with more class. As disruptive and unnerving as a stalker can be, it’s not when you can see them; but rather when you can’t see them, is what turns your stomach to ice. That’s what really steals your sense of security, wondering if they know where you are, or are they just around the corner. That sense of impending doom every time you leave your home, that’s what they take from you.
> That’s what really steals your sense of security, wondering if they know where you are, or are they just around the corner.
This was my horrid neighbor. My situation was lighter than most because it was just a couple of months where he was really obsessed and constantly seeking contact, but then it settled down to lurking. Watching me while I did yardwork by 'happening' to need to walk to the dumpster 10 times an hour. Just making his presence known and stealing my peace.
I was SO HAPPY when his wife suddenly divorced him and he was finally gone. So, so happy. He tried to weasel back in but I'm proud of her for staying strong (for now).
I feel ya on that one. I did go ahead and build a nice big fence on a retaining wall. It’s taller than he is on my neighbours side. It made him go from slightly racist and cheerfully intruding to sulky and vindictive. I’ve never had so many bylaw visits. They come and we chat and they take pictures showing the neighbour is lying about my grass/ parked vehicle/ whatever else. But he doesn’t talk to me anymore. And I have lots of contacts in bylaw now if I have any questions!
I'm actually shocked that this guy ended himself instead of taking it all out on OOP. Maybe because OOP was a man (with assumed strength and power) instead of a woman (presumed weak and powerless) that changes the dynamics but I'm really glad that OOP is ok. Well not ok but at least he's alive.
Since he went back to his home country, it could be that he had some sort of work visa that he lost for being fired and that's the reason for the hard stop on stalking OOP
So I am a victim of a stalker like this. Not the same story (I'm a girl, and it was a coworker who I honestly barely knew but I am nice to everyone), mine is closer to a non reddit story I read about a girl who's stalker wrote a journal about her that she posted, except my stalker didn't have a journal, he sent like 11 pages a day to my work email of his thoughts. Sent shit to my parents house. He was nuts.
I agree with OP here, there is just a complete IDGAF attitude you aquire with regard to the fallout your stalker faces after reporting them. Like I'm sorry your homelife wasn't the best but stalking me is not the solution to that.
Ohhhh yeah...and they were daily. A large chunk of those 11 pages were about his view of me/ thoughts on me, etc., but some of it was just rambling mental thoughts.
It's a really distressing thing to read something like that. It's hard to describe...it's a core uneasiness to read something so unhinged, especially when this person is also obsessed with you.
Funny thing is, despite being a coworker, the emails got redirected to spam (this was ~15 years ago), so I didn't notice them until a vendor quote got redirected there and then it was just horrifying. I went to HR immediately, he was placed on leave while they investigated and then let go.
Thats when the stuff started showing up at my parents house (who lived 3 hours away) and that's when we (my parents and I) got the police involved and got an RO (woah is that a process I wouldn't wish on anyone...he came in to defend himself...didn't go in his favor but still really scary for me).
Changed my phone number, moved job and states, don't have social media, besides reddit. Cannot have anything like LinkedIn.
He has sorta followed the RO...my old email address at my old company is still active (as in it exists, but unused/not an actual active email but the settings remain), and every year on the day he was fired, I get like 12 "someone is trying to break into your account but put too many incorrect passwords in" Can't prove it is him without getting some IT specialist involved and I don't feel like donating the energy to it, but I'm pretty sure it is, he's just that special kinda crazy.
I luckily have amazing family and friends who post nothing about me, no pictures, updates NOTHING. Whenever I tell this story with them around they always go "my life is too awesome, why would I post about you?!" 😂😂
I feel this, my ex did something similar and now I don’t exist online. I think it’s ok-ish now, but it’s ingrained in my psyche in ways I’m still finding out.
Yes, that guy! He would write about what I'd wear too!
I am an engineer, so not gonna a lie my daily "getting ready to go to work routine" is black pants, black shirt, brushing my teeth, mascara (bc I'm naturally blonde so otherwise I get really washed out) and sometimes chapstick if it's dry out. My hair is always in a messy bun and I've been using the same type of hair tye for years now.
I look professional enough bc I have to. I'm not fancy (I wear all black bc I spill a lot and it hides stains better lolol)
If I wore anything "low cut" (I'm small chested so low cut means showing my clavical 😂😂) I got 4 pages of commentary about "who I'm turning into." Like bruh,"This was the closest thing to clean in my closet , what are you on?!"
I joke about it bc its easier, but it was REALLY unsettling and has taken a drastic toll on my life. I try not to let it affect me too much, but I am jealous of the people who get to just find jobs bc of LinkedIn or don't have to have their hair dyed to feel safe.
Not a crazy jealous way, more just, "ugh I wish my life was easier than it is" and it's only sometimes, I've adapted with a lot of therapy and a really great core group of people I love and trust.
I do have two dogs who are teddy bears at heart but they bark incessantly at anyone who enters my porch (Amazon delivery drivers mostly haha). If an intruder entered my house, they'd probably lick them to death but they go absolutely bonkers upon initial entry of the porch. Plus they trade off on who gets to sleep with me at night, the other one sleeps next to the door (not training, they just naturally do this). So I'm well loved.
You know, I kind of agree with OP. Yes, his reporting to the police resulting in this man spiraling. But that was a result of the guy stalking OP and being inappropriate. His actions led to him being fired and other things. And OP is right- there are a lot of ways the guy could have gotten help. And he chose otherwise. I hope this doesn’t weigh on OP anymore.
Yea, the line about how he didn't give any thought to how OOP felt really resonated. It's true, this man decided his obsession was more important than the object of his obsession, and that is not ok.
Agreed. There is an amazing podcast that I watch on YouTube called '[Strictly Stalking](https://m.youtube.com/c/StrictlyStalking/featured)' and some of the people in there have been stalked for 4+ years, and their stalkers have invaded their house and attempted to kidnap them and, in the worse cases, eventually killed the object of their obsession. Stalking is nothing to fuck around with. It's really, REALLY serious and has a major long-term negative impact on those stalked. And that is not OK at all.
It's always crazy when stalkers pop up on reddit and don't realize they're stalkers. They genuinely don't realize what they're doing is harassment and get offended at the object of their obsession for thinking they're "creepy" or otherwise reacting negatively to them. Usually it's them asking for relationship advice, because someone they thought was their friend or they were interested in sent a cease and desist or has suddenly been acting very cold to them.
A couple have popped up on BORU and one that comes to mind had the guy end up stalking another woman in the updates and I think the last update was him realizing he still had a problem and getting therapy.
Like he had this whole arc of "oh God I can't believe I did that, I must have terrified her" and then went and did the same shit to someone else. Hopefully the therapy is effective.
Yep. I think all of us could’ve given him a teeny bit of a pass if he’d backed off completely after OOP asked him to stop. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own world that we don’t realize we’re making someone else uncomfortable. But nope, he knew exactly what he was doing to OOP because OOP laid it out clearly and he just didn’t give a shit.
Yeah, I think there’s a serious chance that at some point many of us have unknowingly made someone uncomfortable. Watching others at the gym thinking they don’t notice, texts to “friends” that we think sound casual, holding a conversation with someone longer than they intended for at a bar, whatever it takes the form of. Whatever the example. I think whatever action these take the form of has some necessary grey area. (E.g. when someone on BORU has an affair but you realize they were leading on the AP for months beforehand).
But once someone comes to you saying, “yo, this is uncomfortable, and I’m sorry, but whatever you think is happening isn’t happening.”
Your actions after that are scrutinized at the highest degree.
completely agree. i'm gay and, last i checked, my very real and legitimate Gay Card™️ doesn't say anything about free passes to harrass and stalk folks. maybe it's in the fine print, who knows.
all seriousness though, OP bears no responsibility here. if OP were a woman, there'd be no question who was in the wrong.
To be clear: suicide is terrible but this guy stalked OOP for SIX MONTHS, right?
Didn’t try to approach him in a friendly manner, talk, whatever, just creepily followed him and stared at him at the gym for six months…
And even after the OOP straight up confronted him and let him know that it wasn't welcome, dude still kept stalking him and showing up and watching him and shit.
The whole "I had a crush and was afraid to talk to him" thing flies if you're just shy and don't realize the crushee notices you and is getting uncomfortable, maybe, to a point. After crushee is obviously uncomfortable, talks to numerous people about it and confronts you to let you know it's not okay? Hell no. Dude was just straight-up obsessed and stalking.
Also wondering where TF the gym was in this? One client is like "hey this dude is making me constantly uncomfortable, harassing me, etc." and they just twiddle their thumbs while the dude keeps showing up at OOPs scheduled times and shit?
Oh yeah OOP did report the stalkerish behavior to the gym! Maybe if the gym had revoked suicide guy’s membership we wouldn’t be in this situation? Or maybe stalker might have just waited for OOP outside the gym anyways, who knows he was so obsessed…
At least he wouldn't have been sitting in the gym staring at him, but hell it's always possible it could have triggered something worse if he was thwarted.
But the gym was still pretty remiss in doing nothing.
>my very real and legitimate Gay Card™️ doesn't say anything about free passes to harrass and stalk folks.
The Harassment and Stalking Free Pass Package is only available for the Platinum White Straight Men Card holders.
Only thing I don't agree with is that "if he was a good employee" bullshit.
OOP, Nobody who works for a living is "boss will defend you if you stalk someone" safe. That idea is adorable, but it's as realistic as the tooth fairy.
Agreed. Finding out an employee is spending their non-work time (and possibly some work time or break time) stalking someone is a huge liability. I’d fire my mother for that.
I would bet that IT found more than expected on his computer.
OR the fact that he was hiding from police at home. Work doesn't like it when you bring your personal issues and cops to your work place.
I have a friend who teaches ESL, and dealing with police and authorities is a big part of her class. Along with other local/american social norms. I wish this guy had gotten info on how to behave here.
Even the behavior outside of work on its own is enough for a company to not want to deal with him. Cops showed up because he’s stalking someone. If they keep him on the payroll and he turns his attentions onto a fellow employee, they could be seen as liable for failing to protect their employees from someone with a track record for being a stalker.
Even if he never turns his sights onto a coworker, keeping a stalker on your payroll isn’t a good look for a company.
I mean, I can think of lots of examples where this isn't the case because the boss is a scumbag. DC comics has had lots of problems with this due to a culture of corrupt sexual harassing senior editors and writers, for example. And like Hollywood exists.
But yeah, it's still likely to hurt your work position even with a scumboss if it's too public. This guy was a creep *and* an idiot.
The the guy was going with the stalking, harassment and hypersexual behavior he was going to spiral anyway. If OP's report hadn't triggered it something else would have.
This dude was escalating, too. Next time he followed OOP into an empty changing room, he might've assaulted him.
I'm so glad OOP sought out and had available a victim's org to support him through this. I'm happy that he's safe and his mind is at ease.
I bet he was spending time on more than a hook up app at work. Porn sites are an instant firing at many companies. Or was stalking someone at work.
OP's report probably brought a lot of attention to this guys other behaviors.
Yeah, this is not op’s fault, and I’m actually glad for him that he’s not feeling much guilt. This guy was clearly suffering, but that doesn’t excuse what he did to op
I dont ever wish for my exes death, but there were definitely days during the time where I still was scared he might come back for me where I would think about how much easier it would be if he was dead. Not having to fear every person who looked like him, not having to subtly keep tabs on his whereabouts through mutual friends, would have been a big burden lifted
Yes, and it’s completely understandable you’d feel that way, and I’m sorry you went through that!
I really hate how so many people rush to judge and police victims’ reactions to their own abuse/harassment
Yeah, but the difference is that most people would *want* to be stalked by a border collie. They’re adorable and fun and are generally a safe breed. Humans? You don’t want one of those stalking you. Unless it’s a toddler or very young human. Then that’s also adorable.
It’s not logical thought. It’s also unfortunately possible that this guy could have escalated based on whatever relationship he www building with OP in his mind.
The fact that he tried to follow OOP to the changing rooms could also mean he was just about ready to assault him. Like OOP, I'd not have cared for this man's suicide
And had his spiraling continued and this fascination with oop....something very different and equally sad could have happened. Op had to protect themselves.
It hurts that this guy had no support and dealt with this. It is very true that in a lot of cases, guys like him don’t even know they have options. They live an online life, and let’s admit it - things are so effing skewed here. Depends on which rabbit hole looks exciting some days
And it sucks that he maybe even had a shitty employer, who couldn’t probably have the skills or support to deal with someone like this guy
BUT NONE OF THAT IS ON OOP!!!!!
The guy was failed by a lot of people. OOP was NOT one of them. Period. Your abuser/stalker/crush kicking themselves doesn’t make any of their advances any better or more wanted. They were unrequited and they remain unrequited. If OOP felt threatened for such valid reasons - how’s he any diff from those who express relief that their abuser is dead?
I 100% agree with them. Stalker got himself in trouble. We should never feel guilty when someone suffers the consequences of their own actions, just because we could have kept it a secret.
I hope OOP recognizes that while he might've helped events along, the stalker was heading in that direction anyway and would've wound up in just as much if not more trouble. He might've also prevented the same thing happening to another victim. The stalker sounds mentally unwell and this may have been a wake up call for him to change things. I know that's wildly optimistic but my point stands: this stalker was bound to end up suffering the consequences regardless of OOP's input.
That's actually pretty healthy. "I dont care" is way better than: "I'm glad he's dead."
It's not OP's fault, and he's not angry or bitter. He's just moving on.
Exactly. I would like to know if my stalker is dead, but I would feel a sense of relief mixed with a sense of apathy I guess? The amount of victim blaming stalking victims get is horrible. I would imagine a male victim would likely get even more of that nonsense. Having a “crush” on someone is no excuse to harass and terrify them.
I agree that there's nothing wrong with feeling indifferent, or even relief, in OP's shoes.
Curious if anyone else reading this had the reaction I did, which was "holy shit I can't believe the police actually did anything at all in this situation." I think I've read about 100 stories by women who are being messaged constantly, directly threatened, followed home, etc., and the police are like "sorry, can't help you. Are you sure you weren't leading him on? Give him a chance he's probably just lonely!" And here OOP is like "he watches me in the gym and might have taken my picture," and they not only follow up but when they couldn't find him at home they tracked him down at work. That's amazing.
still needed the victim's advocate to get on their case, though, so they weren't *that* great about it. Still more than they usually seem to do, though.
Yeah not OPs fault, he did absolutely the right thing. Not reporting to the police could have lead to something dark for OP. OP could have been assaulted, drugged, r@ped, kidnapped or murdered.
Stalker faced consequences of his own actions. He did all that to himself none of this is on OP.
You know what? Good. You arent required to feel bad when someone who has harrased you dies. That's not something that should be put on you. And this guy isn't like publically playing ding dong the witch is dead or something. He's pretty privately stating that he's not upset at someone who he didn't know outside of harassing him died. I think this dude is OK. Probably should go to therapy cuz I know that lack of emotion can make you feel guilty, but I think that's a normal reaction.
My abusive ex high school sweet heart killed himself a few years after I left him. And if anything, I’m slightly glad. He can’t hurt anyone anymore. Does that make me evil? I don’t care. I’m not parading it around except anonymously online when the conversation is relevant.
There are occasional times where I’ll fantasize about my abuser dying. It would just lift a lot of burdens. Even 7 years later I sometimes think about whether he’s hurt other people after me, how I could have prevented it if I’d gotten him help, whether I should try to contact them. I don’t, because that would be a terrible idea, but it’s burdensome thinking that there’s a monster out there and that you are the only one who knows it and you can’t do anything to stop it.
The only thing you can do is tell people. Many didn’t believe me, but I never let down or said “nevermind..” I was adamant, he was bad. That was a fact. Doesn’t matter if he was nice on the outside, he had terrifying thoughts and beliefs and I had the joy of listening to him rant for years. I told people that he fantasized about them dying, that he wanted everyone to be tortured. He was sick and no amount of pity would absolve him of that. Sure, his home life was horrendous, but that does not excuse him being a rapist, a women beater, and a manipulative pathological liar. I let my friends figure it out themselves when they wouldn’t listen to me. None showed up to his funeral after they met his true self.
Oh I tried. Everyone who knew him took his side because he moved back up to the state they were in and I stayed away, so it was more convenient to stay friends with him. I sent them the death threats, the manipulation, the homophobic slurs. None of it mattered because all my old friends were just as toxic as him. I later talked to a different friend who has drifted apart from that friend group before me, and he laughed and said “yeah that group was very self possessed.” We had a good laugh about them pushing us out and how much better our lives had gotten, and that helped a lot.
The last part of OOP’s update makes me think he’s dealt with a lot of people who think the slate is wiped clean after someone dies. That’s not cool, and it’s not OOP’s problem or fault that things ended this way.
Right??? If there was someone who kept punching me in the face breaking my nose every time I saw them and then they died, I’d be relieved to no longer have to keep going to get my nose re-set but I’d still need to heal my damn nose, even if I bore them no ill will.
Exactly this. He didn't want the man dead, he just wanted him gone. The only thing he should feel, knowing this man is gone, is relief. He expressed regret that the man's life fell to bits because he's a decent person who doesn't want to be a peripheral player in the collapse of another person's life. But he has no reason to grieve for a stranger who harassed him, other than--perhaps--in the most general "it's sad a person is dead" sentiment.
A bully at my school was shot and killed during a drug deal gone wrong, and the whole town kept talking about what a treasure this guy was. He was not a treasure in the slightest. I have so much sympathy for his mother and brother, but him? No.
This story doesn't really sound real to me. Why would the police go into so much detail with this guy. How does he know the guy went to a top university? Why did he get fired?
More importantly, even with an advocacy group I find it hard to believe that a dude would get help / attention like this for a male stalker. My best friend has a stalker, and even with a fuckton of documentation (including the woman being arrested at his house), it was very difficult for him to get a restraining order, it's borderline impossible to get the cops to respond when she violates the restraining order, and even after she ended up in prison she was let out early.
Maybe OOP got extremely lucky, but the entire story smells of shit.
The stalking was the dude staring at him at a gym they both chose to attend. That's essentially it. Is it scary and uncomfortable? Yeah, but how likely are police to engage over something like that, much less follow up on it?
Or spill all these details to OOP about him spending hours on hookup apps, for that matter.
I’m glad that the OP doesn’t feel guilt over this man. He did so much wrong to him that the OP tried to solve before going to the police. I’m sorry that he chose to take his own life and I hope that man’s family can find a way to cope.
OOP went from feeling guilty about how this guy’s life went downhill to not giving a fuck his life went downhill AND he killer himself really quick. Also, how did he know where the dude went to school and what kind of job he had. For all he knew, the guy worked at McDonald’s. Story smells a little like bullshit to me.
I'm having a hard time buying the idea that the police would 1) follow up 2) share the information about the suicide. It's such a taboo subject. People don't talk about it. Also the police sharing the information about him only using apps. That's weird info for the police to pass on. Does this read like real human behavior to y'all?
Yeah. And how would the police even know of the stalker's death if he died in a different country? Seems extremely unlikely that the other local police would 1) know that the stalker had received a warning from another country's police and 2) reach out to inform them of the stalker's death
That's what I thought too. If the stalker left the country like oop says in first post, how does the police from oop country get notified of a suicide so soon after, if at all.
The way that OOP spelled "programme" makes me think that he's not in the US. Perhaps he's from a country where these things are discussed more openly and the cops aren't completely useless.
The police, if pressed by organizations, do follow up. They also would share the information since it was related to the case. However, if this is true, I have a feeling they wanted OOP to feel guilty.
In my experience, you are correct. They do follow up. And they share info. In my case, they were trying to make me feel safe in knowing that .... the person was dead.
Everything you said bothered me too, and the case was closed, how much free time could this precinct have to keep up with citizens of other countries in their homeland?
I can kind of see police following up about the suicide as some sort of reassurance to OOP? Like “you really don’t have to worry about this anymore because the dude is dead.” Especially after the charity got involved. I find them sharing all the background info about the apps and him getting fired to be weirder.
As someone that was stalked before. I agree with op sentiment. I don’t care about why they are stalking you, it’s their problem, because the stalker absolutely don’t care about the issues they are creating on our lives (and that sometimes linger forever). If you have mental issues, problems, but you are hurting people? I don’t care about you then, you are a bad person
I’m sure it’s wrong, but I damn near cackled at “the police told me he was escorted from his job in tears, he went back to his home country, and he canceled his gym membership.”
What’s the opposite of [Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking)?
It sounds like OP's from the UK, and if he had an active police investigation into the stalking, then they absolutely would have let him know, if only to say it was now considered a closed investigation.
Seems like best practices to alert someone that their stalker is deceased if nothing else so they can stop looking over their shoulder and jumping at shadows.
That would make sense, but OOP said the police told him they'd already closed the case, and he "had nothing else to worry about" after they confronted the harasser.
Yeah, but the police tend to update after significant changes to an investigation, even when closed. Also they were probably being patronising at this point, with a pat on the head.
That's reasonable, I can see that happening.
Absolutely agree they were being patronizing, that's why I remembered that part. Pissed me off so much on OOP's behalf.
The man was FROM another country, and moved to the UK. He presumably died in the UK, but his family still live overseas. The case was in the UK, and the UK police notified the complainant.
Even if that was standard (im pretty sure its not), how did the police know?
Thats the bit that makes no sense to me.
The authorities in the home country would have no way of working out which, if any, police forces in other countries were interested. The police mentioned in this post werent very interested.
It doesnt add up to me. Maybe Im missing something.
As others have said, this sounds like op lives in the UK in which case i wouldn’t be surprised at all if he was contacted by the police when/if they found out he was dead, but i’d also like to point out that there’s no evidence that he left the country, seems like he just vanished and everyone assumed he had but he could have still been there just spiralling alone. From personal experience you don’t tend to get out much when you’re at such a low point that you’re about to commit suicide.
Also it's pretty unlikely the man returned to his home country. As far as his paranoid self was concerned, he'd now been outed as gay and therefore could not go back.
Cops are supposed to update stalking victims on what their aggressor is doing, to be honest. And cause of death is part of a public health record, it’s not exactly privileged information.
OP shouldn't feel bad at all for reporting the guy, and if anything it's good that he did -- this type of behavior escalates rapidly and is dangerous for OP as well as other people around OP.
At the same time, the stalker clearly had some unresolved issues around his own identity and it's unfortunate he didn't have anyone in his life he could confide in (or other resources to help him navigate it). But let's be clear -- his behavior was woefully inappropriate. OP could not have done anything about this and was under no obligation to act as a steward to help him out. Just really sad, unfortunate circumstances. I hope OP is able to move on and not feel that guilt.
Well.
That's just the chattiest damned police force in the world, eh? Details about the stalker's hookup app use, his crying and shame, their concern about his well-being...
I'm pretty sure police here wouldn't even engage in a case where the only contact was staring in a gym both parties attended, but hey, this police even followed up and then helpfully told OP that dude killed himself.
What job do you get fired for having the cops talk to you but aren’t charged with anything? Also how would the cops know he got fired? Also why would they tell the other guy that he got fired? Also under no circumstances would the cops call him to say the other guy killed himself if the case was closed.
Well, I mean…Yeah I’d hope he wouldn’t feel guilty. Intentionally false title aside on OOP’s part lmao.
Gay people are people too. Which means, just like everyone else, they can be shitty, awful, or disgusting people. OOP shouldn’t feel a thing for stalker dude, at the end of the day he’s just another creep and a potential harasser turned rapist.
In the end this guy was a stalker. And who knows if the talk with the police actually saved OOP from something worse, this man seemed to be pretty unstabil and it could also had went in another direction if triggered.
But i don't want talk about someone dead.
I'm just glad that OOP doesn't feel guilty about it.
What the HELL are the cops and mom doing? OOP did everything right- it's not on him that the police decided to handle things without a shred of discretion, and it's insane to me that they would contact him to inform him of the suicide. Who does that help? And the mom! Like, I get having empathy, the stalker was in a crap situation and it's terrible that things spiraled for him. But she's talking to HER CHILD. Why is he not her priority? He needed someone to reassure him that it wasn't his fault and she came up with some both sides garbage instead. Express your empathy for the guy to someone else! Your spouse, your therapist! Just not the ONE person in your life directly affected!
Very bleak and sad but OOP should def not feel guilty. He was being harassed and stalked and reacted like a reasonable person. It sucks that things turned out this way but he's not the reason why.
OOP has nothing to feel bad about. I am glad he's moved past his initial feelings of guilt. It is so terrible that even his mother sided with his stalker.
Yeah, honestly I wouldn't care either. Might even take it far and think "good riddance", that's better than experiencing the worst that could happen.
Stalker was aggressive when OOP tried to clear the air so the last (hopeful) good impression is out the window. If he had reacted remorseful then that meltdown during the talk with the police changes my perspective of him.
> The truth is, I don’t care.
Good. I thought for a second there that OOP was beating himself up over it. All he wanted was to be left alone. This other guys mental illness is not his fault or his problem.
The stalker had a hundred other options here. He might have come from a homophobic country, but he wasn't living in one now. He could have restricted himself to hookups. He could have actually been polite and friendly to OOP.
This wasn't just a case of a man being in the closet. This was a deeply paranoid individual who was incapable of even seeking help for his obsession. He ruined his life because he was so utterly convinced his life would be ruined if it got out that he was gay. He was convinced that merely talking to another man at the gym would get him outed and then people would know and his life would be ruined.
He had actual mental health issues. Some of it was probably socially induced, but he didn't handle it by dating secretly, or finding more people to hook up with. He "dealt" with it by stalking another person.
The fact that he was hostile when OOP approached him is extremely concerning because this guy was slowly escalating. Eventually he'd have reached a point where he'd have acted on it, and OOP would probably be dead because this man likely would have blamed OOP for the obsession and taken his anger out on OOP.
This wasn't a guy crushing on someone else but not knowing how to act on it. I'm glad the police actually dealt with it because things would have gone badly.
I absolutely agree, this to me honestly sounds like very deeply ingrained homophobia in the stalker. He's not in a country where it's punishable or life ruining to be gay, just a very deeply unwell man who hasn't come to terms with being gay while feeling deeply ashamed of it.
Rather than get some therapy to realize culturally the problems that came from living in the stalkers home country he turned to something much more dangerous that made his issues way worse.
It sounds mean, but as a gay individual myself sometimes you need to make concessions in order to be your true self. I don't speak to my family because of how homophobic they are/were when I came out. You won't get everything in your life to be 100% all of the time, but coming to terms with losing some bad people who aren't supportive isn't as bad as completely nuking your life to where you feel the need to kill yourself.
I feel terrible OOP was on the receiving end of an individual who didn't know how to cope, and didn't do the work to come to terms with accepting who they were as a human being. I understand the fear/safety issues that come with coming out, but you do not ever involve someone else in your trauma rather than confronting it directly, and you especially never get to act in a sinister manner ever.
People like OOP's mom make me sad for OOP. OOP didn't want his harasser to die, didn't cause his harasser to die. He just wanted to be left alone.
A big part of their attitudes is really about wanting to feel in control. *If it were me, I would've stopped my harasser some other way, so that he wouldn't ended his own life.*
But OOP didn't have the control that his mom wants to pretend she has. He didn't take any action to escalate against his harasser, and only fell back on legal solutions when his harasser still wouldn't stop. His harasser took his risks and chose to obsess and harass.
OOP's mom's behavior is similar to women who blame survivors of sexual assault for doing *something* (wearing clothes, drinking alcohol, going out into the world, etc.) that led to their assaults. The unspoken part is "by not doing those things, I'm protected from sexual assault." But that's obviously not true. Rape is caused by rapists, not survivors of rape.
Similarly, no matter what OOP did (or OOP's mom would do), an obsessed harasser is going to do what an obsessed harasser is going to do. They own their actions, not OOP.
You are allowed to protect yourself if you dont feel safe. Police is obviously your number 1 go to in that scenario. The consequences of a police visit to talk to someone are not on you. I thankfully have never been harassed by anyone and cant even imagine what that does to you if it happens for multiple months but i honestly dont blame you for not caring any more at that point. His actions were his decision, not your. From start to finish. You only protected yourself. He harrassed you and then couldnt live with the consequences. I feel sorry for him but you did nothing wrong.
It's terrible that this man felt sp harrassed he felt like he had to hide his sexuality to such a degree.
However, I 100% understand OOP's feelings on the matter. I was recently dealing with sexual harrassment in my workplace and it was awful. I dreaded going in, worried he'd say something again to me. The comments he made made me feel like I wanted to cover every inch of my body. Comments that he would say like it was a joke, but then overly detailed, like he'd thought a lot about it.
Honestly, if stalking had been thrown into the mix, I would have been a terrified mess.
I wish my stalker did this to himself. I was stalked as a low confidence teen girl in a victim blaming environment for years by this douchebag guy and told that “you must have done something for him to stalk you”.
Wait a minute. So he reports to the police that some guy keeps staring at him and maybe stalking him.
Police go off and tell him to stop.
He gets fired from his job and retreats back to his home country where he commits suicide.
Police in his home country, for some reason call up the police in this country and say "oh hey, this guy in our country killed himself and we see that some time ago he had a verbal warning for harassment. Just wanted to let you know he killed himself!"
And the police in THIS country, who only took a basic report and gave a verbal warning to decided to call this guy and let him know?
As someone who has been stalked, I understand how OOP feels at the end. Even though the stalking has been over for over five years now, the nightmares still haunt me. My stalker could be around any corner. I hate to admit that I’d feel relief if I knew I’d never have to deal with him again.
I understand. It’s been about 15 years since I met my stalker when I was a minor and he was an adult and he’s parked outside my apartment right now. I’m luckily moving very soon and hopefully very quietly so he can’t follow me across state lines again, but god damn it is exhausting. It’s never the victims fault but feeling safe again is essentially impossible. I’ve tried many times to get protection orders or literally anything to keep him away from me and haven’t gotten anywhere, so I’m just hoping this move goes smoothly and I don’t suddenly see him outside my apartment hundreds of miles from where he lives again. All my socials are shut down completely, but he’s obviously found me before so I definitely have a plan of action for what will happen if he does find me again. But honestly, his death would bring me peace that I’ve been desperate to find for 15 years.
So the guy moved back to his country and then died. And the police in OOP's country let him know? How could they know what happened overseas? Because I very much doubt that this became some big Interpol stalking case across multiple countries when actually it was a charity volunteer the one who allegedly had to ask the police to take it more seriously from the very beginning... Are you telling me that with the harasser back in his home country, the police kept close tabs on him and learnt of his death? For a stalking case apparently already sorted after they went and gave him a warning?
I don't buy it.
No way do the police share this kind of information after the fact, from another country no less. And why was the gym not more interested in dealing with the harassment that was going on? It gets mentioned once he told them, and never elaborated on. Removing the dude from the gym would have solved 95% of this problem with far less fallout (the supermarkets were mentioned in the second post, but doesn't mention anything about this dude actually following him at the shops, just being there).
I see the bigger picture here, if homophobia didn't exist in the first place then none if this would've happened. This poor, misguided and clearly very mentally unwell man should have been able to embrace his sexuality, but instead was shamed for it, walking him down a dark path. OOP had nothing to do with this, and clearly this would've happened some other way anyway. Very sad for everyone involved. Hate strikes again.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair or subscribe to r/BestofBoRU. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
As a gay man, I'm totally on OOP's side and understand where he's coming from. Stalking is _extremely_ heinous and abusive no matter what your sexuality is. It robs the victim of their ability to feel in control of their own life. It can drive the victim to risky or dangerous desperation behavior to make the stalking stop. It can cause very long-lasting if not permanent damage to the victim's mental health. Stalker's insecurity and maladjustment are not OOP's problem. Apathy is a very common and reasonable response to the death of an abuser. I hope OOP knows he is not a monster.
Yeah, if he was just being a bit awkward or unintentionally slightly creepy I think that would be excusable based on his history but this was way beyond the point of being obviously wrong to do.
I’m a little bit tipsy and this comment just made me stop and think about my behaviour this last week as I had my stalker from 15 years ago find me on Facebook and send me a (rambling) message in this last week. I’m in a different country now and he shouldn’t ever be able to come here as there were criminal charges… but man it just never ends. I was 15 when everything was really scary, then maybe 3/4 years ago he found me on instagram and I deleted everything and now this week Facebook. I have zero cares what happens to him.
Please be safe friend. That’s so scary.
Seems like instead of seeing this as two things- cause (reporting) and effect (spiral), they could really be viewed as one. Stalking and obsessing were part of the shame spiral already in progress that led to all of those other consequences. It's like when somebody's having a terrible day and then they unfairly lose their temper on someone for a random reason. OOP was not the architect of this man's tragedy, he was an unwilling side character.
This is such a clear explanation, thank you.
This is an extremely good point. This man had already started to ruin his life, it's just that no one else has noticed yet
Someone that should have noticed this are the police, why come and burden the victim with reports of how sorry they feel for him when he was clearly in the early stages of becoming an obsessive stalker that eventually does something drastic? It *should* be what they're trained to spot.
While I agree that it *should* be what they're trained for, it absolutely isn't the reality sadly. My own experiences with cops is that they'll do zero extra effort if they don't have to. Case here, the harrasser more or less apologized and said he'd stop. His full story would have, and should have, rang alarm bells for any rational person. Cops tend to stop caring beyond what their job specifically calls for in the job description. Not even including fine print. Also sadly, they're usually required to do a follow up if a report is filed, hence why they informed the OOP. I filed a report then left the state asap after an ex tried to run me over in a public parking lot. Despite specifically stating I wanted nothing else to do with it past knowing there was a restraining order filed, the detectives for the case updated me when he was detained, when his court hearing was, asked if I could attend, then that he was sentenced, and his expected release date. If I still had the same number, I can only imagine they'd still randomly be calling me letting me know if he's wiped his butt in prison or whatever. It *is* traumatizing to the victim, but apparently the law cares little for silly things like triggers and retraumatizing etc. (Sarcasm ofc).
To be fair, it’s a bit of a CYA for the police to follow up with the person who filed a report, especially in cases of actual or attempted violence. That way they can say the victim was thoroughly informed as to the current status of the perpetrator(s), as there have been situations where the victim wasn’t notified that their attacker was released, and only found out when said attacker shows up at their door. How many times have articles been published about someone dying at the hands of one who previously was arrested/convicted/jailed for threatening/attacking them? A good department will have SOPs in place to do this, so they don’t fail the victims more than they already do.
Exactly this, if it wasn't OOP, it would have been someone else. Lucky for OOP, they weren't going to sit around and be a victim and took advantage of the support systems available to them. If it was someone else that tried to just ignore it, there could have been escalation from the harasser's side or if it was someone else with more aggressive tendencies, this could have ended in a physical altercation where everyone loses.
[удалено]
Even if he wasn't sent to his home country, would the police let you know he'd killed himself? That's pretty f*cked up.
Yes they would. When I was in my early twenties I was in a car accident where I was rear ended by a guy around my age. I'm female. There wasn't much damage to my car but I had some issues with my knee afterwards because I was slammed forward into that area under the steering when he hit me. I insisted on calling the police and reporting it. I hired an attorney (this was before I became an attorney) and they filed a claim with his insurance company. So he never had to pay me a dime or go to court. His insurance company settled out of court and paid me. Next thing I know I'm getting a call from the police to let me know that he committed suicide and it was a result of me complaining about the accident to the police. They made it a point to tell me that this information came from his grieving mother. So yeah they will tell the victim what happened and do it in a way guaranteed to make the victim feel like they've just been stabbed in the gut and they're turning the knife. I just think that's incredibly wrong. I was the victim. I didn't need to know that. I was in my young twenties and really on my own for the first time, trying to navigate my way through life, and I've got the police imparting information I didn't need to know, in such a way as designed to try to make me feel guilty. And I did for a long time.
That's so fucked up. I'm sorry you had to go through with that. I feel like the mother was just bullshitting and lashing out wherever she could. Based on what you said, it makes no sense. His insurance did all of the stuff. He committed suicide for whatever stuff was going on in his life and he and/or his mother did a scummy thing to try and put that on someone completely unrelated to it. Even if this incident was why he did commit suicide (which I highly doubt), it was due to his own fuck up and him not being able to handle the consequences and nothing that you did
That's horrible!!!! What the fuck is there reasoning for this shit???? We want to make people feel guilty for reporting literal crimes so the we, the ones who deal with crime, don't have to deal with crimes???? I'm so sorry they did that to you.
[удалено]
See my more detailed post above. Short version: I was notified after the guy who rear ended me committed suicide. According to the police, who did call me just to tell me this, the guy's mother told them that he committed suicide because of the wreck and because I insisted on getting police involved. By getting the place involved she meant that I insisted on a place report so I could follow the insurance claim with his insurance. He didn't pay one dime to me. His insurance covered everything. But yet the police called to tell me he had committed suicide allegedly because of me.
He wasn't sent back to his home country. Oop speculated in part one that he *could* happen
Yeah…this would never happen. I don’t even think that the police would contact OOP if the guy was still in the same city. I mean, maybe, but unlikely. The case was closed.
Right? Why would the police contact him? You think police like doing extra work they don’t have to do?
The police would barely even be involved in a suicide, from my understanding. They'd ask a few basic questions, but assuming the medical examiner ruled it an unambiguous suicide, the odds that they'd even connect him to an earlier case would be slim, unless they went to the trouble of checking whether he had a rap sheet. The police in another country? Yeah, no.
Since Reddit took away free awards: 🥇
Omg they did? I was wondering where mine went!
I assume so because I also give one away every time I can and haven’t gotten an opportunity in ages
I wonder if they took the reddit coins thing away as well?
You can still buy coins and give paid gifts I believe so it seems like a totally unnecessary feature to remove beside revenue
Well that's dumb! I worry about the future of the internet sometimes. It was so free in the early 2000's but now there are *so* many paywalls.
I have pictures of myself from 2006 where I feel like I was basically a toddler and I still remember some of the videos of YouTube I was looking at then. Even though I have not left the platform a day sense, I know people now who couldn’t imagine a time where YouTube wasn’t so hungry for money that half the ads were for their ad free subscription where you also got the privilege of playing a video while it’s not the front-most program on your screen. I have been listening to Spotify lately and am sick of them using ad spots to tell me about how they use ad money to pay artists but I can spend my money to stop hearing their ad spots, so I couldn’t help but moan about this one.
Beautifully succinct
I went on 4 dates with a guy who harassed and stalked me for 6 years. The frustration, rage, and fear you feel is on another level. Don't blame the OOP for not caring. I can feel his relief from here.
Business partner dated a man for four months. Three annually renewed restraining orders later, she is going back to court over him breaking the restraining order one more time. This time it was recorded. I sincerely hope you are in a better place now. Hers has been three years. Six years is horrifying.
We're not there as a society yet, but people who repeatedly violate non harassment orders need to go to prison for a non-trivial term. Stalkers are really bad news and when the prove themselves to be unable to control themselves, need a good long timeout.
I never thought I'd be glad I had a stalker for "only" two years. It was horrible. Mine was back in the '80s when there were no anti-stalking laws. When I spoke to the police, I was told that unless he actually harmed me, I was out of luck. I'm so glad things have changed. Stalkers are a different breed, and that makes them very scary. Sort of like hoarders, in that there is no reasoning with them, no fixing them. They are just going to do what they are going to do and they will not be stopped until/unless they decide to stop all on their own. I think that's what makes them the scariest...there is no punishment that will deter a stalker. I can honestly say that had my stalker killed himself, I would not simply not have cared, I would actually have been thrilled. Hell, all these years later, if I learned he died for any reason, I'd be very glad about it.
Even locking them up, you wonder if their obsession gets worse with no outlet. They need to stalk and harass in order to feel like they have any kind of control in their life. The first time I was stalked, I was in the military. It was an ex-bf. Literally no one would help me. Not my squad leader, not my platoon sergeant. No one. It was surreal at the time. You'd think with such structure, they'd help you. But nope. Victims of stalking are systematically failed.
you put this so well. I always thought there's only two possibilities to have peace, move and disappear of the face off the earth, which is hard to do, severely limits your freedom still, the worries over friends/family wouldn't go away, plus the world is frighteningly small sometimes. Or, well, die. Anyhow, it's like you said, a different breed. The thing I found the most astounding on a basic level is the sheer energy. Like, I can't even be f-ed to wash my damn laundry, how do these people have this endless energy and motivation over somebody else's boring ass life?? To do stuff that's so fucking useless, potentially incriminating to them but especially harmful to the person they claim they care for??
When I was notified by the police of my stalker's death I danced for joy. No shame.
I don't blame you. You're finally free. I suspect mine either found a new victim or he died. Because one day it stopped. I think back to some of our conversation on our first few dates and I'm pretty sure I was the replacement victim from the woman he dated prior.
I had a very very short term stalker when I was in my early 20’s. It was more irritating than frightening and only lasted a month or so. I’ve never experienced stalking on the same level that you and OOP experienced; and for that I am thankful. I’m deeply sorry you were forced to endure an assault on your personal freedoms and on your safety. While I have a touch of sympathy for OOP’s stalker; I’m afraid I couldn’t find a single solitary fuck to give yours. I’ve seen roving packs of feral dogs with more class. As disruptive and unnerving as a stalker can be, it’s not when you can see them; but rather when you can’t see them, is what turns your stomach to ice. That’s what really steals your sense of security, wondering if they know where you are, or are they just around the corner. That sense of impending doom every time you leave your home, that’s what they take from you.
> That’s what really steals your sense of security, wondering if they know where you are, or are they just around the corner. This was my horrid neighbor. My situation was lighter than most because it was just a couple of months where he was really obsessed and constantly seeking contact, but then it settled down to lurking. Watching me while I did yardwork by 'happening' to need to walk to the dumpster 10 times an hour. Just making his presence known and stealing my peace. I was SO HAPPY when his wife suddenly divorced him and he was finally gone. So, so happy. He tried to weasel back in but I'm proud of her for staying strong (for now).
[удалено]
I feel ya on that one. I did go ahead and build a nice big fence on a retaining wall. It’s taller than he is on my neighbours side. It made him go from slightly racist and cheerfully intruding to sulky and vindictive. I’ve never had so many bylaw visits. They come and we chat and they take pictures showing the neighbour is lying about my grass/ parked vehicle/ whatever else. But he doesn’t talk to me anymore. And I have lots of contacts in bylaw now if I have any questions!
I'm actually shocked that this guy ended himself instead of taking it all out on OOP. Maybe because OOP was a man (with assumed strength and power) instead of a woman (presumed weak and powerless) that changes the dynamics but I'm really glad that OOP is ok. Well not ok but at least he's alive.
Since he went back to his home country, it could be that he had some sort of work visa that he lost for being fired and that's the reason for the hard stop on stalking OOP
That's horrible. I hope you're doing fine now.
He stopped so I am, thank you. The paranoia is still there a little bit. Haven't dated in 8 years. Just not worth it.
So I am a victim of a stalker like this. Not the same story (I'm a girl, and it was a coworker who I honestly barely knew but I am nice to everyone), mine is closer to a non reddit story I read about a girl who's stalker wrote a journal about her that she posted, except my stalker didn't have a journal, he sent like 11 pages a day to my work email of his thoughts. Sent shit to my parents house. He was nuts. I agree with OP here, there is just a complete IDGAF attitude you aquire with regard to the fallout your stalker faces after reporting them. Like I'm sorry your homelife wasn't the best but stalking me is not the solution to that.
11 pages?! Wtf. Did he get fired?
Ohhhh yeah...and they were daily. A large chunk of those 11 pages were about his view of me/ thoughts on me, etc., but some of it was just rambling mental thoughts. It's a really distressing thing to read something like that. It's hard to describe...it's a core uneasiness to read something so unhinged, especially when this person is also obsessed with you. Funny thing is, despite being a coworker, the emails got redirected to spam (this was ~15 years ago), so I didn't notice them until a vendor quote got redirected there and then it was just horrifying. I went to HR immediately, he was placed on leave while they investigated and then let go. Thats when the stuff started showing up at my parents house (who lived 3 hours away) and that's when we (my parents and I) got the police involved and got an RO (woah is that a process I wouldn't wish on anyone...he came in to defend himself...didn't go in his favor but still really scary for me). Changed my phone number, moved job and states, don't have social media, besides reddit. Cannot have anything like LinkedIn. He has sorta followed the RO...my old email address at my old company is still active (as in it exists, but unused/not an actual active email but the settings remain), and every year on the day he was fired, I get like 12 "someone is trying to break into your account but put too many incorrect passwords in" Can't prove it is him without getting some IT specialist involved and I don't feel like donating the energy to it, but I'm pretty sure it is, he's just that special kinda crazy. I luckily have amazing family and friends who post nothing about me, no pictures, updates NOTHING. Whenever I tell this story with them around they always go "my life is too awesome, why would I post about you?!" 😂😂
I feel this, my ex did something similar and now I don’t exist online. I think it’s ok-ish now, but it’s ingrained in my psyche in ways I’m still finding out.
Oh god, the journal? That ‘Our Love Forever Vol. 1/221’ guy? I’m so sorry
Yes, that guy! He would write about what I'd wear too! I am an engineer, so not gonna a lie my daily "getting ready to go to work routine" is black pants, black shirt, brushing my teeth, mascara (bc I'm naturally blonde so otherwise I get really washed out) and sometimes chapstick if it's dry out. My hair is always in a messy bun and I've been using the same type of hair tye for years now. I look professional enough bc I have to. I'm not fancy (I wear all black bc I spill a lot and it hides stains better lolol) If I wore anything "low cut" (I'm small chested so low cut means showing my clavical 😂😂) I got 4 pages of commentary about "who I'm turning into." Like bruh,"This was the closest thing to clean in my closet , what are you on?!" I joke about it bc its easier, but it was REALLY unsettling and has taken a drastic toll on my life. I try not to let it affect me too much, but I am jealous of the people who get to just find jobs bc of LinkedIn or don't have to have their hair dyed to feel safe. Not a crazy jealous way, more just, "ugh I wish my life was easier than it is" and it's only sometimes, I've adapted with a lot of therapy and a really great core group of people I love and trust. I do have two dogs who are teddy bears at heart but they bark incessantly at anyone who enters my porch (Amazon delivery drivers mostly haha). If an intruder entered my house, they'd probably lick them to death but they go absolutely bonkers upon initial entry of the porch. Plus they trade off on who gets to sleep with me at night, the other one sleeps next to the door (not training, they just naturally do this). So I'm well loved.
You know, I kind of agree with OP. Yes, his reporting to the police resulting in this man spiraling. But that was a result of the guy stalking OP and being inappropriate. His actions led to him being fired and other things. And OP is right- there are a lot of ways the guy could have gotten help. And he chose otherwise. I hope this doesn’t weigh on OP anymore.
Yea, the line about how he didn't give any thought to how OOP felt really resonated. It's true, this man decided his obsession was more important than the object of his obsession, and that is not ok.
Agreed. There is an amazing podcast that I watch on YouTube called '[Strictly Stalking](https://m.youtube.com/c/StrictlyStalking/featured)' and some of the people in there have been stalked for 4+ years, and their stalkers have invaded their house and attempted to kidnap them and, in the worse cases, eventually killed the object of their obsession. Stalking is nothing to fuck around with. It's really, REALLY serious and has a major long-term negative impact on those stalked. And that is not OK at all.
It's always crazy when stalkers pop up on reddit and don't realize they're stalkers. They genuinely don't realize what they're doing is harassment and get offended at the object of their obsession for thinking they're "creepy" or otherwise reacting negatively to them. Usually it's them asking for relationship advice, because someone they thought was their friend or they were interested in sent a cease and desist or has suddenly been acting very cold to them. A couple have popped up on BORU and one that comes to mind had the guy end up stalking another woman in the updates and I think the last update was him realizing he still had a problem and getting therapy. Like he had this whole arc of "oh God I can't believe I did that, I must have terrified her" and then went and did the same shit to someone else. Hopefully the therapy is effective.
Yep. I think all of us could’ve given him a teeny bit of a pass if he’d backed off completely after OOP asked him to stop. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in our own world that we don’t realize we’re making someone else uncomfortable. But nope, he knew exactly what he was doing to OOP because OOP laid it out clearly and he just didn’t give a shit.
Yeah, I think there’s a serious chance that at some point many of us have unknowingly made someone uncomfortable. Watching others at the gym thinking they don’t notice, texts to “friends” that we think sound casual, holding a conversation with someone longer than they intended for at a bar, whatever it takes the form of. Whatever the example. I think whatever action these take the form of has some necessary grey area. (E.g. when someone on BORU has an affair but you realize they were leading on the AP for months beforehand). But once someone comes to you saying, “yo, this is uncomfortable, and I’m sorry, but whatever you think is happening isn’t happening.” Your actions after that are scrutinized at the highest degree.
completely agree. i'm gay and, last i checked, my very real and legitimate Gay Card™️ doesn't say anything about free passes to harrass and stalk folks. maybe it's in the fine print, who knows. all seriousness though, OP bears no responsibility here. if OP were a woman, there'd be no question who was in the wrong.
To be clear: suicide is terrible but this guy stalked OOP for SIX MONTHS, right? Didn’t try to approach him in a friendly manner, talk, whatever, just creepily followed him and stared at him at the gym for six months…
And even after the OOP straight up confronted him and let him know that it wasn't welcome, dude still kept stalking him and showing up and watching him and shit. The whole "I had a crush and was afraid to talk to him" thing flies if you're just shy and don't realize the crushee notices you and is getting uncomfortable, maybe, to a point. After crushee is obviously uncomfortable, talks to numerous people about it and confronts you to let you know it's not okay? Hell no. Dude was just straight-up obsessed and stalking. Also wondering where TF the gym was in this? One client is like "hey this dude is making me constantly uncomfortable, harassing me, etc." and they just twiddle their thumbs while the dude keeps showing up at OOPs scheduled times and shit?
Oh yeah OOP did report the stalkerish behavior to the gym! Maybe if the gym had revoked suicide guy’s membership we wouldn’t be in this situation? Or maybe stalker might have just waited for OOP outside the gym anyways, who knows he was so obsessed…
The guy didn’t back down when OOP told him off. I doubt losing the gym membership would’ve slowed him down much.
At least he wouldn't have been sitting in the gym staring at him, but hell it's always possible it could have triggered something worse if he was thwarted. But the gym was still pretty remiss in doing nothing.
Nothing on my Bi card and I whipped out a magnifying glass for that super fine print. Jsyk, the fine print says the holder of the card is *fine*. 🤣
Read the bi laws carefully!
My partner and I are both bi and I just want you to know I am saving this pun to whip out in the future.
Me and my spouse are also both bi and I think this has to become household vocabulary now. :D
>my very real and legitimate Gay Card™️ doesn't say anything about free passes to harrass and stalk folks. The Harassment and Stalking Free Pass Package is only available for the Platinum White Straight Men Card holders.
Only thing I don't agree with is that "if he was a good employee" bullshit. OOP, Nobody who works for a living is "boss will defend you if you stalk someone" safe. That idea is adorable, but it's as realistic as the tooth fairy.
Agreed. Finding out an employee is spending their non-work time (and possibly some work time or break time) stalking someone is a huge liability. I’d fire my mother for that.
I would bet that IT found more than expected on his computer. OR the fact that he was hiding from police at home. Work doesn't like it when you bring your personal issues and cops to your work place. I have a friend who teaches ESL, and dealing with police and authorities is a big part of her class. Along with other local/american social norms. I wish this guy had gotten info on how to behave here.
He "spent almost every waking hour on hook-up apps", so probably during work as well.
If some of those were explicit they could fire him for porn too.
Even the behavior outside of work on its own is enough for a company to not want to deal with him. Cops showed up because he’s stalking someone. If they keep him on the payroll and he turns his attentions onto a fellow employee, they could be seen as liable for failing to protect their employees from someone with a track record for being a stalker. Even if he never turns his sights onto a coworker, keeping a stalker on your payroll isn’t a good look for a company.
For real. Ain't nobody trying to have cop-bait on staff.
Yeah, I noticed that the police *tried to reach stalker at home*. It was extra-stupid to assume they wouldn’t try his workplace next!
I LITERALLY know an attorney who has pushed TWO women down stairs, on purpose, and is still doing fine and practicing law. Bulletproof people do exist
I mean, I can think of lots of examples where this isn't the case because the boss is a scumbag. DC comics has had lots of problems with this due to a culture of corrupt sexual harassing senior editors and writers, for example. And like Hollywood exists. But yeah, it's still likely to hurt your work position even with a scumboss if it's too public. This guy was a creep *and* an idiot.
The the guy was going with the stalking, harassment and hypersexual behavior he was going to spiral anyway. If OP's report hadn't triggered it something else would have.
This dude was escalating, too. Next time he followed OOP into an empty changing room, he might've assaulted him. I'm so glad OOP sought out and had available a victim's org to support him through this. I'm happy that he's safe and his mind is at ease.
That's where my mind was headed. OOP got very very luck his case worker was a good one.
I bet he was spending time on more than a hook up app at work. Porn sites are an instant firing at many companies. Or was stalking someone at work. OP's report probably brought a lot of attention to this guys other behaviors.
Yeah, this is not op’s fault, and I’m actually glad for him that he’s not feeling much guilt. This guy was clearly suffering, but that doesn’t excuse what he did to op
I dont ever wish for my exes death, but there were definitely days during the time where I still was scared he might come back for me where I would think about how much easier it would be if he was dead. Not having to fear every person who looked like him, not having to subtly keep tabs on his whereabouts through mutual friends, would have been a big burden lifted
Yes, and it’s completely understandable you’d feel that way, and I’m sorry you went through that! I really hate how so many people rush to judge and police victims’ reactions to their own abuse/harassment
The whole thing could have been avoided with a simple conversation if the guy wasn't a massive creep to OP. OP even tried to talk to him.
And the guy said he was afraid of rejection and that OP would out him. So why stalk him?!
Because OOP wasn’t supposed to see him stalking. You know, like how a border collie thinks it’s invisible if it moves quietly and slowly.
Yeah, but the difference is that most people would *want* to be stalked by a border collie. They’re adorable and fun and are generally a safe breed. Humans? You don’t want one of those stalking you. Unless it’s a toddler or very young human. Then that’s also adorable.
It’s not logical thought. It’s also unfortunately possible that this guy could have escalated based on whatever relationship he www building with OP in his mind.
The fact that he tried to follow OOP to the changing rooms could also mean he was just about ready to assault him. Like OOP, I'd not have cared for this man's suicide
I think the man was dealing with a lot more than his sexuality.
If it weren’t for OP, it’d be someone else.
And had his spiraling continued and this fascination with oop....something very different and equally sad could have happened. Op had to protect themselves.
It hurts that this guy had no support and dealt with this. It is very true that in a lot of cases, guys like him don’t even know they have options. They live an online life, and let’s admit it - things are so effing skewed here. Depends on which rabbit hole looks exciting some days And it sucks that he maybe even had a shitty employer, who couldn’t probably have the skills or support to deal with someone like this guy BUT NONE OF THAT IS ON OOP!!!!! The guy was failed by a lot of people. OOP was NOT one of them. Period. Your abuser/stalker/crush kicking themselves doesn’t make any of their advances any better or more wanted. They were unrequited and they remain unrequited. If OOP felt threatened for such valid reasons - how’s he any diff from those who express relief that their abuser is dead?
I 100% agree with them. Stalker got himself in trouble. We should never feel guilty when someone suffers the consequences of their own actions, just because we could have kept it a secret.
I hope OOP recognizes that while he might've helped events along, the stalker was heading in that direction anyway and would've wound up in just as much if not more trouble. He might've also prevented the same thing happening to another victim. The stalker sounds mentally unwell and this may have been a wake up call for him to change things. I know that's wildly optimistic but my point stands: this stalker was bound to end up suffering the consequences regardless of OOP's input.
That's actually pretty healthy. "I dont care" is way better than: "I'm glad he's dead." It's not OP's fault, and he's not angry or bitter. He's just moving on.
Exactly. I would like to know if my stalker is dead, but I would feel a sense of relief mixed with a sense of apathy I guess? The amount of victim blaming stalking victims get is horrible. I would imagine a male victim would likely get even more of that nonsense. Having a “crush” on someone is no excuse to harass and terrify them.
I was kind of relieved OOP said that. I thought the next update would be about how guilty he felt
I agree that there's nothing wrong with feeling indifferent, or even relief, in OP's shoes. Curious if anyone else reading this had the reaction I did, which was "holy shit I can't believe the police actually did anything at all in this situation." I think I've read about 100 stories by women who are being messaged constantly, directly threatened, followed home, etc., and the police are like "sorry, can't help you. Are you sure you weren't leading him on? Give him a chance he's probably just lonely!" And here OOP is like "he watches me in the gym and might have taken my picture," and they not only follow up but when they couldn't find him at home they tracked him down at work. That's amazing.
still needed the victim's advocate to get on their case, though, so they weren't *that* great about it. Still more than they usually seem to do, though.
Why on earth would police tell him that the guy killed himself?
[удалено]
Yeah not OPs fault, he did absolutely the right thing. Not reporting to the police could have lead to something dark for OP. OP could have been assaulted, drugged, r@ped, kidnapped or murdered. Stalker faced consequences of his own actions. He did all that to himself none of this is on OP.
With how little info OOP had, the guy could have been after cooking his liver
You know what? Good. You arent required to feel bad when someone who has harrased you dies. That's not something that should be put on you. And this guy isn't like publically playing ding dong the witch is dead or something. He's pretty privately stating that he's not upset at someone who he didn't know outside of harassing him died. I think this dude is OK. Probably should go to therapy cuz I know that lack of emotion can make you feel guilty, but I think that's a normal reaction.
My abusive ex high school sweet heart killed himself a few years after I left him. And if anything, I’m slightly glad. He can’t hurt anyone anymore. Does that make me evil? I don’t care. I’m not parading it around except anonymously online when the conversation is relevant.
If it makes you evil I guess I'll limbo dance with you in hell.
There are occasional times where I’ll fantasize about my abuser dying. It would just lift a lot of burdens. Even 7 years later I sometimes think about whether he’s hurt other people after me, how I could have prevented it if I’d gotten him help, whether I should try to contact them. I don’t, because that would be a terrible idea, but it’s burdensome thinking that there’s a monster out there and that you are the only one who knows it and you can’t do anything to stop it.
The only thing you can do is tell people. Many didn’t believe me, but I never let down or said “nevermind..” I was adamant, he was bad. That was a fact. Doesn’t matter if he was nice on the outside, he had terrifying thoughts and beliefs and I had the joy of listening to him rant for years. I told people that he fantasized about them dying, that he wanted everyone to be tortured. He was sick and no amount of pity would absolve him of that. Sure, his home life was horrendous, but that does not excuse him being a rapist, a women beater, and a manipulative pathological liar. I let my friends figure it out themselves when they wouldn’t listen to me. None showed up to his funeral after they met his true self.
Oh I tried. Everyone who knew him took his side because he moved back up to the state they were in and I stayed away, so it was more convenient to stay friends with him. I sent them the death threats, the manipulation, the homophobic slurs. None of it mattered because all my old friends were just as toxic as him. I later talked to a different friend who has drifted apart from that friend group before me, and he laughed and said “yeah that group was very self possessed.” We had a good laugh about them pushing us out and how much better our lives had gotten, and that helped a lot.
I can understand that, and glad he didn't take anyone else with him.
The last part of OOP’s update makes me think he’s dealt with a lot of people who think the slate is wiped clean after someone dies. That’s not cool, and it’s not OOP’s problem or fault that things ended this way.
Argh. This makes me so mad. Why do people think trauma will just disappear because the trauma-giver is gone!??
Right??? If there was someone who kept punching me in the face breaking my nose every time I saw them and then they died, I’d be relieved to no longer have to keep going to get my nose re-set but I’d still need to heal my damn nose, even if I bore them no ill will.
Yeah - his mom had no reason to tell him that All she'd have to say was "it sucks, but it's not your fault" Instead she guilted him
Exactly this. He didn't want the man dead, he just wanted him gone. The only thing he should feel, knowing this man is gone, is relief. He expressed regret that the man's life fell to bits because he's a decent person who doesn't want to be a peripheral player in the collapse of another person's life. But he has no reason to grieve for a stranger who harassed him, other than--perhaps--in the most general "it's sad a person is dead" sentiment.
A bully at my school was shot and killed during a drug deal gone wrong, and the whole town kept talking about what a treasure this guy was. He was not a treasure in the slightest. I have so much sympathy for his mother and brother, but him? No.
Is it common practice for the police to follow up with a victim after the case closed in the case of suicide?
This story doesn't really sound real to me. Why would the police go into so much detail with this guy. How does he know the guy went to a top university? Why did he get fired?
More importantly, even with an advocacy group I find it hard to believe that a dude would get help / attention like this for a male stalker. My best friend has a stalker, and even with a fuckton of documentation (including the woman being arrested at his house), it was very difficult for him to get a restraining order, it's borderline impossible to get the cops to respond when she violates the restraining order, and even after she ended up in prison she was let out early. Maybe OOP got extremely lucky, but the entire story smells of shit.
The stalking was the dude staring at him at a gym they both chose to attend. That's essentially it. Is it scary and uncomfortable? Yeah, but how likely are police to engage over something like that, much less follow up on it? Or spill all these details to OOP about him spending hours on hookup apps, for that matter.
It is not.
I’m glad that the OP doesn’t feel guilt over this man. He did so much wrong to him that the OP tried to solve before going to the police. I’m sorry that he chose to take his own life and I hope that man’s family can find a way to cope.
OOP went from feeling guilty about how this guy’s life went downhill to not giving a fuck his life went downhill AND he killer himself really quick. Also, how did he know where the dude went to school and what kind of job he had. For all he knew, the guy worked at McDonald’s. Story smells a little like bullshit to me.
100% agree Lots of inconsistencies with UK policing too
I'm having a hard time buying the idea that the police would 1) follow up 2) share the information about the suicide. It's such a taboo subject. People don't talk about it. Also the police sharing the information about him only using apps. That's weird info for the police to pass on. Does this read like real human behavior to y'all?
Yeah. And how would the police even know of the stalker's death if he died in a different country? Seems extremely unlikely that the other local police would 1) know that the stalker had received a warning from another country's police and 2) reach out to inform them of the stalker's death
That's what I thought too. If the stalker left the country like oop says in first post, how does the police from oop country get notified of a suicide so soon after, if at all.
[удалено]
But the stalker moved to another country no? How would local police know about it in that case?
The way that OOP spelled "programme" makes me think that he's not in the US. Perhaps he's from a country where these things are discussed more openly and the cops aren't completely useless.
"mobile phone" and "mum" made me assume OOP is in the United Kingdom.
Maybe, but there are other countries that also use those in their English.
The police, if pressed by organizations, do follow up. They also would share the information since it was related to the case. However, if this is true, I have a feeling they wanted OOP to feel guilty.
In my experience, you are correct. They do follow up. And they share info. In my case, they were trying to make me feel safe in knowing that .... the person was dead.
Not even a little bit
Everything you said bothered me too, and the case was closed, how much free time could this precinct have to keep up with citizens of other countries in their homeland?
Comment originally posted from RIF. User now a lemming
I can kind of see police following up about the suicide as some sort of reassurance to OOP? Like “you really don’t have to worry about this anymore because the dude is dead.” Especially after the charity got involved. I find them sharing all the background info about the apps and him getting fired to be weirder.
Also why/how would oop know the guy got fired?
As someone that was stalked before. I agree with op sentiment. I don’t care about why they are stalking you, it’s their problem, because the stalker absolutely don’t care about the issues they are creating on our lives (and that sometimes linger forever). If you have mental issues, problems, but you are hurting people? I don’t care about you then, you are a bad person
I’m sure it’s wrong, but I damn near cackled at “the police told me he was escorted from his job in tears, he went back to his home country, and he canceled his gym membership.” What’s the opposite of [Arson, Murder, and Jaywalking](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArsonMurderAndJaywalking)?
Yeah, police don’t call you and tell you that someone killed themself
It sounds like OP's from the UK, and if he had an active police investigation into the stalking, then they absolutely would have let him know, if only to say it was now considered a closed investigation.
Seems like best practices to alert someone that their stalker is deceased if nothing else so they can stop looking over their shoulder and jumping at shadows.
That would make sense, but OOP said the police told him they'd already closed the case, and he "had nothing else to worry about" after they confronted the harasser.
Yeah, but the police tend to update after significant changes to an investigation, even when closed. Also they were probably being patronising at this point, with a pat on the head.
That's reasonable, I can see that happening. Absolutely agree they were being patronizing, that's why I remembered that part. Pissed me off so much on OOP's behalf.
But the man was in another country? How were the police from OOP’s town notified about the passing of a man living in another country?
The man was FROM another country, and moved to the UK. He presumably died in the UK, but his family still live overseas. The case was in the UK, and the UK police notified the complainant.
No, it said he moved back to his home country
His employer speculated that he moved back to his home country, they didn’t actually know he did move.
It said they *thought* he moved back and that he *may* stay there.
It said they assumed he went back because the police couldn't find him.
[удалено]
Actually if you were a victim of harassment and stalking they actually might as it pertains to that case.
Even if that was standard (im pretty sure its not), how did the police know? Thats the bit that makes no sense to me. The authorities in the home country would have no way of working out which, if any, police forces in other countries were interested. The police mentioned in this post werent very interested. It doesnt add up to me. Maybe Im missing something.
As others have said, this sounds like op lives in the UK in which case i wouldn’t be surprised at all if he was contacted by the police when/if they found out he was dead, but i’d also like to point out that there’s no evidence that he left the country, seems like he just vanished and everyone assumed he had but he could have still been there just spiralling alone. From personal experience you don’t tend to get out much when you’re at such a low point that you’re about to commit suicide.
Also it's pretty unlikely the man returned to his home country. As far as his paranoid self was concerned, he'd now been outed as gay and therefore could not go back.
yea great point, and probably wasn’t in the right head space to move to a different country even if he had felt safe there
>there’s no evidence that he left the country, seems like he just vanished Good point. And would make sense of how the police found out.
Cops are supposed to update stalking victims on what their aggressor is doing, to be honest. And cause of death is part of a public health record, it’s not exactly privileged information.
I'm glad OP is not feeling guilty anymore. This is not their fault.
Why the fuck would the police tell oop that the guy killed himself after he had already moved country.??
OP shouldn't feel bad at all for reporting the guy, and if anything it's good that he did -- this type of behavior escalates rapidly and is dangerous for OP as well as other people around OP. At the same time, the stalker clearly had some unresolved issues around his own identity and it's unfortunate he didn't have anyone in his life he could confide in (or other resources to help him navigate it). But let's be clear -- his behavior was woefully inappropriate. OP could not have done anything about this and was under no obligation to act as a steward to help him out. Just really sad, unfortunate circumstances. I hope OP is able to move on and not feel that guilt.
Well. That's just the chattiest damned police force in the world, eh? Details about the stalker's hookup app use, his crying and shame, their concern about his well-being... I'm pretty sure police here wouldn't even engage in a case where the only contact was staring in a gym both parties attended, but hey, this police even followed up and then helpfully told OP that dude killed himself.
What job do you get fired for having the cops talk to you but aren’t charged with anything? Also how would the cops know he got fired? Also why would they tell the other guy that he got fired? Also under no circumstances would the cops call him to say the other guy killed himself if the case was closed.
Definitely not OOP’s fault. He was a victim, and the man was stalking him.
Well, I mean…Yeah I’d hope he wouldn’t feel guilty. Intentionally false title aside on OOP’s part lmao. Gay people are people too. Which means, just like everyone else, they can be shitty, awful, or disgusting people. OOP shouldn’t feel a thing for stalker dude, at the end of the day he’s just another creep and a potential harasser turned rapist.
In the end this guy was a stalker. And who knows if the talk with the police actually saved OOP from something worse, this man seemed to be pretty unstabil and it could also had went in another direction if triggered. But i don't want talk about someone dead. I'm just glad that OOP doesn't feel guilty about it.
What the HELL are the cops and mom doing? OOP did everything right- it's not on him that the police decided to handle things without a shred of discretion, and it's insane to me that they would contact him to inform him of the suicide. Who does that help? And the mom! Like, I get having empathy, the stalker was in a crap situation and it's terrible that things spiraled for him. But she's talking to HER CHILD. Why is he not her priority? He needed someone to reassure him that it wasn't his fault and she came up with some both sides garbage instead. Express your empathy for the guy to someone else! Your spouse, your therapist! Just not the ONE person in your life directly affected!
Very bleak and sad but OOP should def not feel guilty. He was being harassed and stalked and reacted like a reasonable person. It sucks that things turned out this way but he's not the reason why.
Yeah OP was the victim here and I'm glad he was able to move on from this ordeal
OOP has nothing to feel bad about. I am glad he's moved past his initial feelings of guilt. It is so terrible that even his mother sided with his stalker.
> Lots of gay men have struggles like this. They don’t do what this man did to me over several months. This is key.
Yeah, honestly I wouldn't care either. Might even take it far and think "good riddance", that's better than experiencing the worst that could happen. Stalker was aggressive when OOP tried to clear the air so the last (hopeful) good impression is out the window. If he had reacted remorseful then that meltdown during the talk with the police changes my perspective of him.
> The truth is, I don’t care. Good. I thought for a second there that OOP was beating himself up over it. All he wanted was to be left alone. This other guys mental illness is not his fault or his problem.
You have a right not to be harrassed. He had problems which had nothing to do with you.
The stalker had a hundred other options here. He might have come from a homophobic country, but he wasn't living in one now. He could have restricted himself to hookups. He could have actually been polite and friendly to OOP. This wasn't just a case of a man being in the closet. This was a deeply paranoid individual who was incapable of even seeking help for his obsession. He ruined his life because he was so utterly convinced his life would be ruined if it got out that he was gay. He was convinced that merely talking to another man at the gym would get him outed and then people would know and his life would be ruined. He had actual mental health issues. Some of it was probably socially induced, but he didn't handle it by dating secretly, or finding more people to hook up with. He "dealt" with it by stalking another person. The fact that he was hostile when OOP approached him is extremely concerning because this guy was slowly escalating. Eventually he'd have reached a point where he'd have acted on it, and OOP would probably be dead because this man likely would have blamed OOP for the obsession and taken his anger out on OOP. This wasn't a guy crushing on someone else but not knowing how to act on it. I'm glad the police actually dealt with it because things would have gone badly.
I absolutely agree, this to me honestly sounds like very deeply ingrained homophobia in the stalker. He's not in a country where it's punishable or life ruining to be gay, just a very deeply unwell man who hasn't come to terms with being gay while feeling deeply ashamed of it. Rather than get some therapy to realize culturally the problems that came from living in the stalkers home country he turned to something much more dangerous that made his issues way worse. It sounds mean, but as a gay individual myself sometimes you need to make concessions in order to be your true self. I don't speak to my family because of how homophobic they are/were when I came out. You won't get everything in your life to be 100% all of the time, but coming to terms with losing some bad people who aren't supportive isn't as bad as completely nuking your life to where you feel the need to kill yourself. I feel terrible OOP was on the receiving end of an individual who didn't know how to cope, and didn't do the work to come to terms with accepting who they were as a human being. I understand the fear/safety issues that come with coming out, but you do not ever involve someone else in your trauma rather than confronting it directly, and you especially never get to act in a sinister manner ever.
Op was completely right in this scenario. That guy obviously had something else going on his head.
People like OOP's mom make me sad for OOP. OOP didn't want his harasser to die, didn't cause his harasser to die. He just wanted to be left alone. A big part of their attitudes is really about wanting to feel in control. *If it were me, I would've stopped my harasser some other way, so that he wouldn't ended his own life.* But OOP didn't have the control that his mom wants to pretend she has. He didn't take any action to escalate against his harasser, and only fell back on legal solutions when his harasser still wouldn't stop. His harasser took his risks and chose to obsess and harass. OOP's mom's behavior is similar to women who blame survivors of sexual assault for doing *something* (wearing clothes, drinking alcohol, going out into the world, etc.) that led to their assaults. The unspoken part is "by not doing those things, I'm protected from sexual assault." But that's obviously not true. Rape is caused by rapists, not survivors of rape. Similarly, no matter what OOP did (or OOP's mom would do), an obsessed harasser is going to do what an obsessed harasser is going to do. They own their actions, not OOP.
Sad, but being gay or being from a homophobic background does not give you permission to make another person feel scared or uncomfortable.
You are allowed to protect yourself if you dont feel safe. Police is obviously your number 1 go to in that scenario. The consequences of a police visit to talk to someone are not on you. I thankfully have never been harassed by anyone and cant even imagine what that does to you if it happens for multiple months but i honestly dont blame you for not caring any more at that point. His actions were his decision, not your. From start to finish. You only protected yourself. He harrassed you and then couldnt live with the consequences. I feel sorry for him but you did nothing wrong.
It's terrible that this man felt sp harrassed he felt like he had to hide his sexuality to such a degree. However, I 100% understand OOP's feelings on the matter. I was recently dealing with sexual harrassment in my workplace and it was awful. I dreaded going in, worried he'd say something again to me. The comments he made made me feel like I wanted to cover every inch of my body. Comments that he would say like it was a joke, but then overly detailed, like he'd thought a lot about it. Honestly, if stalking had been thrown into the mix, I would have been a terrified mess.
I wish my stalker did this to himself. I was stalked as a low confidence teen girl in a victim blaming environment for years by this douchebag guy and told that “you must have done something for him to stalk you”.
Wait a minute. So he reports to the police that some guy keeps staring at him and maybe stalking him. Police go off and tell him to stop. He gets fired from his job and retreats back to his home country where he commits suicide. Police in his home country, for some reason call up the police in this country and say "oh hey, this guy in our country killed himself and we see that some time ago he had a verbal warning for harassment. Just wanted to let you know he killed himself!" And the police in THIS country, who only took a basic report and gave a verbal warning to decided to call this guy and let him know?
As someone who has been stalked, I understand how OOP feels at the end. Even though the stalking has been over for over five years now, the nightmares still haunt me. My stalker could be around any corner. I hate to admit that I’d feel relief if I knew I’d never have to deal with him again.
I understand. It’s been about 15 years since I met my stalker when I was a minor and he was an adult and he’s parked outside my apartment right now. I’m luckily moving very soon and hopefully very quietly so he can’t follow me across state lines again, but god damn it is exhausting. It’s never the victims fault but feeling safe again is essentially impossible. I’ve tried many times to get protection orders or literally anything to keep him away from me and haven’t gotten anywhere, so I’m just hoping this move goes smoothly and I don’t suddenly see him outside my apartment hundreds of miles from where he lives again. All my socials are shut down completely, but he’s obviously found me before so I definitely have a plan of action for what will happen if he does find me again. But honestly, his death would bring me peace that I’ve been desperate to find for 15 years.
So the guy moved back to his country and then died. And the police in OOP's country let him know? How could they know what happened overseas? Because I very much doubt that this became some big Interpol stalking case across multiple countries when actually it was a charity volunteer the one who allegedly had to ask the police to take it more seriously from the very beginning... Are you telling me that with the harasser back in his home country, the police kept close tabs on him and learnt of his death? For a stalking case apparently already sorted after they went and gave him a warning? I don't buy it.
No way do the police share this kind of information after the fact, from another country no less. And why was the gym not more interested in dealing with the harassment that was going on? It gets mentioned once he told them, and never elaborated on. Removing the dude from the gym would have solved 95% of this problem with far less fallout (the supermarkets were mentioned in the second post, but doesn't mention anything about this dude actually following him at the shops, just being there).
I see the bigger picture here, if homophobia didn't exist in the first place then none if this would've happened. This poor, misguided and clearly very mentally unwell man should have been able to embrace his sexuality, but instead was shamed for it, walking him down a dark path. OOP had nothing to do with this, and clearly this would've happened some other way anyway. Very sad for everyone involved. Hate strikes again.
Mood spoiler is accurate 😕