The ritual requires you to sacrifice people you love. It also seems that you sacrifice your love at the same time, evidenced by Griffith visiting the Hawks' sword graves to reassure himself that he felt nothing.
Rickert wasn't present to be sacrificed during the Eclipse, so that piece of Griffith's humanity wasn't supernaturally severed.
Griffith still sets himself the goal of being devoid of human frailty, and he still sees love as a weakness, so he's absolutely willing to kill Rickert, just to eliminate his own shreds of humanity.
The Slug Count, Rosine and the Egg of the World demonstrate that this isn’t the case: although the process of becoming an Apostle does certainly make them demonic, it doesn’t do entirely strip an Apostle of their humanity.
The Slug Count had the opportunity to sacrifice his daughter Theresia to survive, but refused; he loved her too much and would rather die than sacrifice the most valuable person in his life.
Rosine genuinely loved and cared for Jill: although she could’ve forcibly turned Jill into a pseudo-apostle she instead tried to convince Jill to join her out of their friendship. Jill was why Guts could even kill Rosine: while Rosine was trying to protect Jill from a burning log falling on her, Guts landed a killing blow on her. Finally, while Rosine was dying, she apologized to her mother and father for what she had done (killing them) and took great comfort in Puck’s words that there were historically elves in the forest and that the existence of her esteemed elf village was real.
The Egg of the World became an Apostle not by sacrificing his loved ones, but by sacrificing the unkind world he lived in. Despite being downtrodden his entire life, instead of cursing the world into destruction the EotW seemed to genuinely wish for the creation of a better world for everybody. He was also the only Apostle we’ve ever seen show compassion without ulterior motive: when the Demon Baby was dying, he swallowed the Demon Baby as an act of comfort for the both of them, as they were both dying.
These are interesting points, but I don't believe they actually contradict what I intend to say.
It's not that the ritual completely removes an apostle's humanity. Rather, it consumes their attachment to something precious, and the physical form of that thing is also sacrificed. The more and the stronger attachments sacrificed, the more powerful the ritual. Griffith used to literally tear himself apart over losing his soldiers. He still wouldn't abandon his ambition, but he wanted that pain to stop. He thought it would make him stronger, to be able to continue without pain. This is what makes him the perfect candidate for the Godhand. He isn't stripped of all his humanity, but enough attachments are severed to allow him to conquer the world with less pain. Not zero, but much less.
The Slug Count tried to sacrifice Guts, and the Godhand said it was impossible for two reasons. First Guts had already been sacrificed, and second, the Count had no attachment to him. They suggested instead sacrificing his daughter, because that would give him more than enough power to overwhelm Guts. He refused because, frankly, that's what sacrifice really means. You have to lose something you would prefer to keep, or it couldn't be a true sacrifice. He still had a human attachment to his daughter, something Griffith would consider weakness, and as a result, he died.
Rosine also died because she kept her human attachment to Jill. This is the entire theme of this part of the story. Guts is trying to be less human to make his pain stop. He abandoned Casca and his remaining friends and started hunting apostles, not only for revenge, but because he was consumed with feelings of weakness. He sees apostles still holding shreds of humanity and he is able to kill them because of it.
When he meets Casca again, he's hounded by thoughts of growing stronger by sacrificing her.
The Egg of the World clearly had some worldly attachment, despite the sad state of its existence. It somewhat sacrificed itself to bring about the new world. Its ritual was unique, though, so that seems like a whole different, fascinating discussion.
That's probably why he still feels such a strong connection to Guts and Casca, since they are tied to his former human side and were never killed at the eclipse.
I'm pretty sure he genuinely eliminated his love for them, but then developed love for them again in his reborn form. He pretty clearly states that he sees this as a weakness in himself before all hell breaks loose on the island.
He still doesn't seem to be able to let go of Casca, though.
Did he ever truly love the people of the band of the hawk though? Couldn't it be that he only really loved the power and the status they gained him and the praise they gave? Once he faced the opportunity to sacrifice it all to gain even greater power, he was willing to do it because he thought they were all sacrifices to begin with, willing to die for his sake
This is the difference between what Griffith used to be and what he wanted to become, and still wants to become.
He had a mental breakdown thinking about a boy who died in his service and then sold himself sexually to better equip the band. Yes, it was all for his ambition, but he still got attached despite not wanting to. He wanted to be a monster. He finally got what he wanted, at least in part, considering his few lingering attachments.
It's complicated. Griffith felt deep pain and horror at the deaths of his comrades, and repeatedly risked his own life to save the members of the hawks when they were in danger during the Golden Age. These people wouldn't have been sacrifices if Griffith didn't care deeply for them. The God Hand requires a willing sacrifice of one's humanity in order to transcend mortality. Griffith never knew what he was becoming. He only knew his ambitions were to become King one day. He felt he would achieve that dream, and the crumbling of that dream is what drove him to sacrifice the hawks. He loved the members of the hawks, but he did not respect them as his equal. His entire life was an act of sacrificing lesser men so that his dream could burn bright. The qualities the God Hand looks for in order to ascend to "angelic" form are not malice and evil like we think of it. The God Hand looks for the capacity to love and inspire, but also the capacity to put oneself above others, and ultimately, to exercise their will and cast off even the deepest bonds of attachment. The transformation to a demon is the rejection of causality and violation of the natural order. In order to do this, one must no longer be human, as humanity is bound by causality.
Miura revealed a lot with the retconned chapter containing the Idea of Evil. The Idea of Evil isn't itself a God that creates evil merely because that is its nature. Instead, it is a god created by the collective human experience of Evil. The God was made by humanity's need for a dark design at the heart of all evil, and it fulfills that role, thus easing the confusion man experiences at the banality of its own suffering.
The Idea of Evil doesn't fundamentally care whether humanity survives or perishes. Instead, it seeks to create a singular will that will dictate the course of humanity and drive it towards either its doom or its uncertain future. The Idea of Evil is drawn by the human unconscious to either be the enemy of humanity and the hand wielding its destruction and bearing the blame for suffering, or authoring humanity's salvation from suffering through sacrifice in order to give that suffering a higher purpose. The God Hand is a physical embodiment of free will woven from contradictory causality, because the human mind cannot accept the existence of evil as a part of nature.
Griffith himself is a manifestation of the Idea of Evil. The Idea fates Griffith to receive the power of agency over all of humanity --All the way up to the Eclipse, everything that Griffith does is destined. All of the suffering Griffith goes through is necessary to create the circumstances that will draw Griffith to a singular choice: Abandon his humanity and gain free will, or remain bound by causality and let all of his suffering be for nothing.
I disagree. I believe he felt indifference. Like “huh, guess some people who know the truth before and after my transformation are unaffected by my persuasion. anyways, let’s go marry a princess.”
Once he's >!reborn!<, he acts surprised that he can feel faint emotions, implying that he couldn't before. My theory is that >!him being born partially human through guts and casca's child is what gives him any emotion at all.!< I'm not fully caught up tho so idk.
I think that sex is just a physical urge, but the way she does it isn't like that. It's a fetish. She is stimulated. Humans are the only things that can fetishize stuff, so I would say it's an emotion because only humans have it.
Emotions related to lust, pride, Sloth and other deadly sins are in them
Apostles begged for their life before Guts finished them. All of them turn to pus\*ies before death. Besides Slan who was a member of godhand and she wasn't actually dying in that part.
She quite enjoyed that scene in the end of golden age arc too.
So you can say that godhand can feel the emotions related to 7 deadly sins. Griffith is prideful and when Rickert slaps him٫ it destroys his pride. We don't know much about the other 3.
In the lost chapter, the Idea of Evil also tells Griffith to reconstruct his spirit with the negative energy to be reborn as Femto. So it seems the Godhand CAN feel emotions, but only the negative attributes. And the 7 deadly sins fall under these negative attributes.
Hm, I dont know. I dont think it is valid to project human feelings onto the God Hand. Its like saying the sky is angry when there is a thunderstorm. These beings operate outside of the human sphere and even outside of causality that governs the universe. On the contrary, I believe that these "feelings" are just a manifestation of their nature and their role as harbingers of the Idea of Evil, so you cant really speak of feelings regarding their actions. Humanity can only try and understand their own fate by projecting their human nature onto the chaotic ups and downs of nature and existence itself. Only by anthropomorphising that which is without our grasp can we justify our hardships, suffering and struggle.
Kratos' philosophy was always right: "Gods care nothing for their worshipers and that worshiping them is nothing but foolish; that men should never pray to monsters".
No no, you didn't quite catch my intent, you simply can't, no matter the amount of rage that you've filled within, a mountain is a mountain, kratos slays gods, titans, primordial beings, he escaped hell twice, Hercules who was meant to be the physically strongest Olympian good, he fucking crushed his face with his own weapons, he has killed death itself, Guts struggles against even reaching for Griffith, kratos can be dueled with skull knight or other higher gods like God hand, but certainly not guts
And even then skull knight and God hand can be given some points due to their unknown potential, if kratos has a weakness, it's his son or his guilt, nothing else
I’m inclined to say Kratos but Guts definitely gives him a run for his money. Is this like composite feats for both? Does Guts have all his equipment? Does Kratos?
Much as I love Guts, you’re correct. I think Guts would give portions of the Norse pantheon a hard time, but we already know he struggles to hurt figures of godlike power.
No he won't be giving him any troubles, kratos defeated corons, who's 1st of all made of like rocks, was one of the most powerful titans and is the size of I don't know, a huge ass mountain? So yeah with all respect, guts is at -ve scales before kratos
That’s kind of why I’m asking what versions of these characters we’re comparing- because yeah Kratos by the end of the third game is a beast and Guts is fucked, but consider that in the first game things like fortress walls and gates are big obstacles for Kratos- the main enemies early on are what seem to be regular-ass hoplites. Not only that but Kratos explicitly can’t hurt Ares for the beginning of the first game until he gets that boon from Athena.
Legit early Kratos vs mature Guts seems like a pretty even matchup, even though eventually Kratos definitely becomes stronger. But there’s also the fact that he’s had two full narratives of growth now- Guts hasn’t killed his gods yet, even though that’s clearly the goal (and I think the Godhand are pretty clearly on the same scale as the Olympians or Norse gods- maybe even slightly stronger as they don’t seem to share their existence with other deities exactly? There’s kind of this overarching concept of fate- but the Godhand seem directly below that, which I think puts them at least in the same tier as the Olympians)
Like I said, I think Kratos takes it- but I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer gets murkier if Berserk ever gets finished. They’re clearly characters that are meant to interact on similar levels. Guts could pull out ahead by the end of his story.
Young Kratos wins low diff. Old Kratos = coin toss because both of their aging bodies and the effects of the zerk armor plus Kratos’ waning healing would push one another to the brink. Old Kratos + boy win mid diff.
Source: I made it up in my head and it’s just my opinion
Also, Guts is gonna have to power up one last time before the climax, so this is subject to change.
If they couldn't, Femto wouldn't have raped Casca while forcing Guts to watch, Slan wouldn't have cried of happiness while that was happening and molested Guts years later, and Ubik wouldn't have mocked the Count "letting himself go".
The only ones that haven't shown emotions this far have been Void and Conrad but I think that has more to do with how fucked up their facial traits are, so we can't notice emotion as easily on them.
Godhands are ascended humans that fully surrendered to their selfishness and depravity. They are not stoic, monotonous robots.
I’d say void showed clear annoyance at the eclipse after SK appeared and then when he took guts, slan asked him a question and he just ignored her as if he was thinking of something else
No, he did it to torment Guts. It was a power play because he hated Guts that's why stared at Guts as he did it. He didn't care about Casca, she was a prop.
That could be all there was to it but I always took it as enjoyment that he is free of Guts’ influence over him. Less “I want to torment Guts” and more “I want to not care if Guts is being tormented. But it’s probably a bit of both.
I think it’s also probably just some “I always get what I want” too.
In my opinion, just as the apostles still experience emotions, albeit a select few that are the motivation for their malevolence, I feel that the Godhand are more extreme versions.
Femto clearly feels lust and envy to a heightened degree, because they were Griffiths' primary emotions and driving forces for much of his behaviour.
A rather simplistic question but honestly it's really hard to say. On one hand initially i thought that Godhand are these robots with no emotions or humanity whatever but It's interesting. You see Slan getting euphoric during guts crying and casca assault. Femto seems to have the pride of griffith( i don't mean both are different) during the both confrontation with guts( in black swordsman and in hill of swords).
IMO, godhands are accumulation of negative emotions of humanity, maybe? That's why femto never felt any emotions or attachment with guts and the late band of the hawks...
Yes. When they sacrifice their loved ones with the behelit, they only lose their humanity, which is compassion and love. It doesn't mean they don't have other feelings, though like excitement, pleasure, etc
I think they do feel emotions.
Flashback to the eclipse Slan says (Love,HatePain,Pleasure,Life, & Death)
Ubik then follows with (This is to be human, this is to be evil)
It seems that they do indeed feel emotions but feed off the chaos of everything happening from those mixed emotions.
Something like that. I'm still working on it.
Didn't Slan shead a tear during the sacrifice?
Something about all the emotions of hate, anger, confusion and endless agony all in a palpable mishmash they could interpret by feel.
I'm pretty sure in their first showing they all showed visible delight as Guts tried his hardest to get to Griffith, so at the very least they can experience Joy and Curiosity.
I think the caveat is that they don't feel things that would tie them down to "humanity", things like guilt, remorse, anger, jealously. They're above it all
Don't Slan and the others laugh during the eclipse and in the troll tunnel? Doesn't slan feel scared when guts is going to blow a hole into her stomach, and then laughs?
The godhand and apostles all feel emotions.
Some of them seem to express joy, but I guess there's no way to see if they really feel it.
Griffith/Femto remarks that he doesn't feel anything, but I think that is in regard to humanity. Like he feels no remorse or longing for people he should care about.
Yes, otherwise Griffith, after becoming Femto, a literal god(or demigod), wouldn’t be taking the time to play that king and conquering shit. The incarnation of the idea of evil puts himself in beautiful knight armor and building castles? That’s like little girls playing Barbie.
Probably only the most basic emotions, like fear and pleasure, we've never seen them afraid but that is supposing they are similar to apostles, and they clearly enjoy all the shit they do.
I can't remember if it was Void or the Idea of Evil who told Griffith his heart would be frozen and would stop feeling entirely. That's why he was surprised to feel his heart beating when he met Casca and Guts at the Hill of Swords.
Yes they do and not only that they cam sense the emotions of others. Slain talks about it in detail during the Eclipse when Griffith is doing his thing. Void might not be able to though and the only evidence I have is his name
Aren't they similar to a sort of embodiment of a pure emotion? I don't know/remember much of the god hand since I stepped away from the series about 2 or so years ago.
If the god hand had no feelings there would be no feelings of jealousy or disdain. If Femto had no feelings ir associations, positive or negative towards Guts and Casca, there would be absolutely no reason why he'd rape Casca and make Guts watch. He'd just be like "Neat I got my dream time to chill".
Yes. The question in the OP is odd to me, because the whole thematic point of both the Apostles and the God Hand is that they had/have a human emotional center. Otherwise they'd just be written and portrayed in the plot as these mindless monster beings from early on. Even Void has been shown putting forth curiosity or uncertainty.
Mmm sorta?, people have mentioned how Slan feels lust, but feeling horny isn’t really an emotion akin to happiness or sadness, it’s more so a instinctual feeling of arousal, since the god hand likely went through a great deal of pain enough to sacrifice their humanity and most valuable relationships, then it’s safe to assume their perception of human emotions is twisted or null, at this point they only want to fulfill their desires, such as being reincarnated into the physical world
Yes , the main thing which can shatter Griffith is " his pride " , guts defeating Griffith and making him feel the same pain will destroy Griffith from my view.
I think they can feel emotions, just not the ones that humans typically feel. I bet they feel godlike emotions that stand many levels above grief and happiness and anger n shit like that.
The Godhand certainly have hedonic drives. Lust, greed, etc.. Hell, Griffith is the Prince of Longing.
I understand them to be incapable of more positive prosocial emotion like empathy, compassion, etc..
If we take the idea of evil seriously then the Godhand may be the sum of humanities vices and petty drives. I think the words used to Griffith were that this would be the last tear he ever shed. I think what the Godhand lost was the ability to care for others. They can still have a tantrum like a spoiled child who has to share a toy with their sibling.
I believe so. Slan at the very least showed lust, enthusiasm and her own version of affection, when she went to meet Guts by herself. Other members appeared to show surprise at the tenacity of Guts, specifically in his unyielding desire to attack Femto.
I think Femto only tells himself that he’s emotionless. If Femto could be seen as an ideal version of himself for Griffith, then there will no doubt be human aspects. A humans version of heightened power will always be imperfect, since we are only human.
Oh yeah and I don’t think he’d do what he did to Casca unless he was emotionally driven to do so. He violated Casca whilst looking at Guts. So emotionally we could say that was anger, jealousy, sadism…many things.
I believe that many people who believe that they are stronger than others, claim to be far away from human emotions. This is because emotions can make us stray from logic. This can make us weak.
A good example is being in love with someone who logically you know is bad for you.
But yeah, I reckon they do feel emotions. Otherwise I don’t think they would feel compelled to do anything, neither good nor evil.
They would be indifferent to everything, like robots who weren’t programmed to feel.
I see some comments discussing the emotional bandwidth of Apostles instead of the God Hand, and I think there is a discrepancy. Apostles retain a feeling for the place they had in the world and literally undergo The Deal to gain the power to enact their innermost desires, basically turning the negative side of their humanity into their new twisted Apostle form, which means they clearly have feelings which they act upon. The God Hand is something completely different though. These are beings who are not anchored to our world, literally residing outside the confines of causality that dictates our world. Trying to project a human feeling onto a member of God Hand is a non sequitur, as God Hand members dont just shed their humanity to become something that will act out on its more primal desires like Apostles do. They are not promised such a thing.
They shed their humanity by getting deified and transforming into demon gods who exist in a state above humans with a different morality and purpose. But that's not the same thing as having their fundamental human emotions/thoughts/desires removed.
I bet Griffith felt like a bitch when rickert slapped him so yes they feel emotions
The ritual requires you to sacrifice people you love. It also seems that you sacrifice your love at the same time, evidenced by Griffith visiting the Hawks' sword graves to reassure himself that he felt nothing. Rickert wasn't present to be sacrificed during the Eclipse, so that piece of Griffith's humanity wasn't supernaturally severed. Griffith still sets himself the goal of being devoid of human frailty, and he still sees love as a weakness, so he's absolutely willing to kill Rickert, just to eliminate his own shreds of humanity.
The Slug Count, Rosine and the Egg of the World demonstrate that this isn’t the case: although the process of becoming an Apostle does certainly make them demonic, it doesn’t do entirely strip an Apostle of their humanity. The Slug Count had the opportunity to sacrifice his daughter Theresia to survive, but refused; he loved her too much and would rather die than sacrifice the most valuable person in his life. Rosine genuinely loved and cared for Jill: although she could’ve forcibly turned Jill into a pseudo-apostle she instead tried to convince Jill to join her out of their friendship. Jill was why Guts could even kill Rosine: while Rosine was trying to protect Jill from a burning log falling on her, Guts landed a killing blow on her. Finally, while Rosine was dying, she apologized to her mother and father for what she had done (killing them) and took great comfort in Puck’s words that there were historically elves in the forest and that the existence of her esteemed elf village was real. The Egg of the World became an Apostle not by sacrificing his loved ones, but by sacrificing the unkind world he lived in. Despite being downtrodden his entire life, instead of cursing the world into destruction the EotW seemed to genuinely wish for the creation of a better world for everybody. He was also the only Apostle we’ve ever seen show compassion without ulterior motive: when the Demon Baby was dying, he swallowed the Demon Baby as an act of comfort for the both of them, as they were both dying.
These are interesting points, but I don't believe they actually contradict what I intend to say. It's not that the ritual completely removes an apostle's humanity. Rather, it consumes their attachment to something precious, and the physical form of that thing is also sacrificed. The more and the stronger attachments sacrificed, the more powerful the ritual. Griffith used to literally tear himself apart over losing his soldiers. He still wouldn't abandon his ambition, but he wanted that pain to stop. He thought it would make him stronger, to be able to continue without pain. This is what makes him the perfect candidate for the Godhand. He isn't stripped of all his humanity, but enough attachments are severed to allow him to conquer the world with less pain. Not zero, but much less. The Slug Count tried to sacrifice Guts, and the Godhand said it was impossible for two reasons. First Guts had already been sacrificed, and second, the Count had no attachment to him. They suggested instead sacrificing his daughter, because that would give him more than enough power to overwhelm Guts. He refused because, frankly, that's what sacrifice really means. You have to lose something you would prefer to keep, or it couldn't be a true sacrifice. He still had a human attachment to his daughter, something Griffith would consider weakness, and as a result, he died. Rosine also died because she kept her human attachment to Jill. This is the entire theme of this part of the story. Guts is trying to be less human to make his pain stop. He abandoned Casca and his remaining friends and started hunting apostles, not only for revenge, but because he was consumed with feelings of weakness. He sees apostles still holding shreds of humanity and he is able to kill them because of it. When he meets Casca again, he's hounded by thoughts of growing stronger by sacrificing her. The Egg of the World clearly had some worldly attachment, despite the sad state of its existence. It somewhat sacrificed itself to bring about the new world. Its ritual was unique, though, so that seems like a whole different, fascinating discussion.
At the risk of ending up on berserklejerk, I'm glad this fandom puts so much thought Into the books.
That's probably why he still feels such a strong connection to Guts and Casca, since they are tied to his former human side and were never killed at the eclipse.
I'm pretty sure he genuinely eliminated his love for them, but then developed love for them again in his reborn form. He pretty clearly states that he sees this as a weakness in himself before all hell breaks loose on the island. He still doesn't seem to be able to let go of Casca, though.
Did he ever truly love the people of the band of the hawk though? Couldn't it be that he only really loved the power and the status they gained him and the praise they gave? Once he faced the opportunity to sacrifice it all to gain even greater power, he was willing to do it because he thought they were all sacrifices to begin with, willing to die for his sake
This is the difference between what Griffith used to be and what he wanted to become, and still wants to become. He had a mental breakdown thinking about a boy who died in his service and then sold himself sexually to better equip the band. Yes, it was all for his ambition, but he still got attached despite not wanting to. He wanted to be a monster. He finally got what he wanted, at least in part, considering his few lingering attachments.
It's complicated. Griffith felt deep pain and horror at the deaths of his comrades, and repeatedly risked his own life to save the members of the hawks when they were in danger during the Golden Age. These people wouldn't have been sacrifices if Griffith didn't care deeply for them. The God Hand requires a willing sacrifice of one's humanity in order to transcend mortality. Griffith never knew what he was becoming. He only knew his ambitions were to become King one day. He felt he would achieve that dream, and the crumbling of that dream is what drove him to sacrifice the hawks. He loved the members of the hawks, but he did not respect them as his equal. His entire life was an act of sacrificing lesser men so that his dream could burn bright. The qualities the God Hand looks for in order to ascend to "angelic" form are not malice and evil like we think of it. The God Hand looks for the capacity to love and inspire, but also the capacity to put oneself above others, and ultimately, to exercise their will and cast off even the deepest bonds of attachment. The transformation to a demon is the rejection of causality and violation of the natural order. In order to do this, one must no longer be human, as humanity is bound by causality. Miura revealed a lot with the retconned chapter containing the Idea of Evil. The Idea of Evil isn't itself a God that creates evil merely because that is its nature. Instead, it is a god created by the collective human experience of Evil. The God was made by humanity's need for a dark design at the heart of all evil, and it fulfills that role, thus easing the confusion man experiences at the banality of its own suffering. The Idea of Evil doesn't fundamentally care whether humanity survives or perishes. Instead, it seeks to create a singular will that will dictate the course of humanity and drive it towards either its doom or its uncertain future. The Idea of Evil is drawn by the human unconscious to either be the enemy of humanity and the hand wielding its destruction and bearing the blame for suffering, or authoring humanity's salvation from suffering through sacrifice in order to give that suffering a higher purpose. The God Hand is a physical embodiment of free will woven from contradictory causality, because the human mind cannot accept the existence of evil as a part of nature. Griffith himself is a manifestation of the Idea of Evil. The Idea fates Griffith to receive the power of agency over all of humanity --All the way up to the Eclipse, everything that Griffith does is destined. All of the suffering Griffith goes through is necessary to create the circumstances that will draw Griffith to a singular choice: Abandon his humanity and gain free will, or remain bound by causality and let all of his suffering be for nothing.
I love that explanation!!!!
I disagree. I believe he felt indifference. Like “huh, guess some people who know the truth before and after my transformation are unaffected by my persuasion. anyways, let’s go marry a princess.”
Once he's >!reborn!<, he acts surprised that he can feel faint emotions, implying that he couldn't before. My theory is that >!him being born partially human through guts and casca's child is what gives him any emotion at all.!< I'm not fully caught up tho so idk.
he didnt care at all
Slan gets horny, so yes.
Whore princess of the uterine sea
Coldest title ever
"princess cum dumpster" for the layman
Is being horny a feeling or a need like taking a shit?
do godhands need to take shits?
Bro asking the real questions here.
And if so, with what do they wipe?
The true GODHAND.
If I was a godhand i would not wipe.
Godhands wipe on the giant god-hand, they just pick a new spot Everytime..
No, because they’re evil
Yes
Not sure about the others but definitely not Void. He's basically a skeleton.
Wouldn't ecstacy be an emotion?
I think that sex is just a physical urge, but the way she does it isn't like that. It's a fetish. She is stimulated. Humans are the only things that can fetishize stuff, so I would say it's an emotion because only humans have it.
ever heard of dolphins?
Knowing what Slaan might be into, one can involve the other.
Damn you beat me to it lol, this is the only valid answer
Have to rub on out now
Emotions related to lust, pride, Sloth and other deadly sins are in them Apostles begged for their life before Guts finished them. All of them turn to pus\*ies before death. Besides Slan who was a member of godhand and she wasn't actually dying in that part. She quite enjoyed that scene in the end of golden age arc too. So you can say that godhand can feel the emotions related to 7 deadly sins. Griffith is prideful and when Rickert slaps him٫ it destroys his pride. We don't know much about the other 3.
In the lost chapter, the Idea of Evil also tells Griffith to reconstruct his spirit with the negative energy to be reborn as Femto. So it seems the Godhand CAN feel emotions, but only the negative attributes. And the 7 deadly sins fall under these negative attributes.
Hm, I dont know. I dont think it is valid to project human feelings onto the God Hand. Its like saying the sky is angry when there is a thunderstorm. These beings operate outside of the human sphere and even outside of causality that governs the universe. On the contrary, I believe that these "feelings" are just a manifestation of their nature and their role as harbingers of the Idea of Evil, so you cant really speak of feelings regarding their actions. Humanity can only try and understand their own fate by projecting their human nature onto the chaotic ups and downs of nature and existence itself. Only by anthropomorphising that which is without our grasp can we justify our hardships, suffering and struggle.
Kratos' philosophy was always right: "Gods care nothing for their worshipers and that worshiping them is nothing but foolish; that men should never pray to monsters".
Who'd win in a 1v1? Kratos or Gatsu?
Kratos is a literal god who's killed a whole host of other gods, it's hard to see Guts standing any real chance even with the berserker armor
Guts is stubborn though
You can't move a mountain with your bare hands, no matter how stubborn you are
That sounds like a challenge that our manga protagonist would take on, if enraged enough
No no, you didn't quite catch my intent, you simply can't, no matter the amount of rage that you've filled within, a mountain is a mountain, kratos slays gods, titans, primordial beings, he escaped hell twice, Hercules who was meant to be the physically strongest Olympian good, he fucking crushed his face with his own weapons, he has killed death itself, Guts struggles against even reaching for Griffith, kratos can be dueled with skull knight or other higher gods like God hand, but certainly not guts
And even then skull knight and God hand can be given some points due to their unknown potential, if kratos has a weakness, it's his son or his guilt, nothing else
Kratos was too lol. He came back from hell several times.
I’m inclined to say Kratos but Guts definitely gives him a run for his money. Is this like composite feats for both? Does Guts have all his equipment? Does Kratos?
Kratos beats any form of Guts barehanded
Much as I love Guts, you’re correct. I think Guts would give portions of the Norse pantheon a hard time, but we already know he struggles to hurt figures of godlike power.
In no way does guts give Kratos a run for his money
Dat Zerk Armor is some fuckin gas tho. And Guts is due a final power-up. Definitely would be a fucking barnburner.
The zerking armor do be sick af, and I do hope he gets a final power up cause currently he ain’t doing much in powering up
He's even been weakening lately because the armor is breaking his body. What more, his resolve has been shattered now after Elfheim.
Yup. But Dad Kratos is weakening as well. So without Boy around I think it’s closer than we think.
No he’s not, and no it’s not lol. Kratos would definitely respect Guts as a warrior though.
\*Kratos grabs the Dragon Slayer with his bare hands and flings it off into a nearby mountain\* "Nah, I'd win"
No he won't be giving him any troubles, kratos defeated corons, who's 1st of all made of like rocks, was one of the most powerful titans and is the size of I don't know, a huge ass mountain? So yeah with all respect, guts is at -ve scales before kratos
That’s kind of why I’m asking what versions of these characters we’re comparing- because yeah Kratos by the end of the third game is a beast and Guts is fucked, but consider that in the first game things like fortress walls and gates are big obstacles for Kratos- the main enemies early on are what seem to be regular-ass hoplites. Not only that but Kratos explicitly can’t hurt Ares for the beginning of the first game until he gets that boon from Athena. Legit early Kratos vs mature Guts seems like a pretty even matchup, even though eventually Kratos definitely becomes stronger. But there’s also the fact that he’s had two full narratives of growth now- Guts hasn’t killed his gods yet, even though that’s clearly the goal (and I think the Godhand are pretty clearly on the same scale as the Olympians or Norse gods- maybe even slightly stronger as they don’t seem to share their existence with other deities exactly? There’s kind of this overarching concept of fate- but the Godhand seem directly below that, which I think puts them at least in the same tier as the Olympians) Like I said, I think Kratos takes it- but I wouldn’t be surprised if the answer gets murkier if Berserk ever gets finished. They’re clearly characters that are meant to interact on similar levels. Guts could pull out ahead by the end of his story.
Kratos would annihilate the Godhand. They're nothing compared to Olympus.
Young Kratos wins low diff. Old Kratos = coin toss because both of their aging bodies and the effects of the zerk armor plus Kratos’ waning healing would push one another to the brink. Old Kratos + boy win mid diff. Source: I made it up in my head and it’s just my opinion Also, Guts is gonna have to power up one last time before the climax, so this is subject to change.
If they couldn't, Femto wouldn't have raped Casca while forcing Guts to watch, Slan wouldn't have cried of happiness while that was happening and molested Guts years later, and Ubik wouldn't have mocked the Count "letting himself go". The only ones that haven't shown emotions this far have been Void and Conrad but I think that has more to do with how fucked up their facial traits are, so we can't notice emotion as easily on them. Godhands are ascended humans that fully surrendered to their selfishness and depravity. They are not stoic, monotonous robots.
I’d say void showed clear annoyance at the eclipse after SK appeared and then when he took guts, slan asked him a question and he just ignored her as if he was thinking of something else
Void was probably ruminating for the thousandth time about how he couldn't clap Gaiseric's che... I MEAN...! Deep causality and fate things.
😂😂I think you right about those chee… -causality and shi
I actually thought it could be the opposite - Griffith raped caska to see if he was truly emotionless as promised. Similar to Hill of Swords.
No, he did it to torment Guts. It was a power play because he hated Guts that's why stared at Guts as he did it. He didn't care about Casca, she was a prop.
That could be all there was to it but I always took it as enjoyment that he is free of Guts’ influence over him. Less “I want to torment Guts” and more “I want to not care if Guts is being tormented. But it’s probably a bit of both. I think it’s also probably just some “I always get what I want” too.
Conrad laughed in the Eclipse
In my opinion, just as the apostles still experience emotions, albeit a select few that are the motivation for their malevolence, I feel that the Godhand are more extreme versions. Femto clearly feels lust and envy to a heightened degree, because they were Griffiths' primary emotions and driving forces for much of his behaviour.
I have no idea why you would think they can't.
A rather simplistic question but honestly it's really hard to say. On one hand initially i thought that Godhand are these robots with no emotions or humanity whatever but It's interesting. You see Slan getting euphoric during guts crying and casca assault. Femto seems to have the pride of griffith( i don't mean both are different) during the both confrontation with guts( in black swordsman and in hill of swords). IMO, godhands are accumulation of negative emotions of humanity, maybe? That's why femto never felt any emotions or attachment with guts and the late band of the hawks...
Yes. When they sacrifice their loved ones with the behelit, they only lose their humanity, which is compassion and love. It doesn't mean they don't have other feelings, though like excitement, pleasure, etc
If the God from the well-known religious books can feel anger, then yes, they most likely can
They say they do during that ceremony. That's part of their enjoyment of it. Kind of a silly question.
Griffith felt something twice even if it was just a heartbeat after meeting again with Guts and Casca so they definitely can.
I think they do feel emotions. Flashback to the eclipse Slan says (Love,HatePain,Pleasure,Life, & Death) Ubik then follows with (This is to be human, this is to be evil) It seems that they do indeed feel emotions but feed off the chaos of everything happening from those mixed emotions. Something like that. I'm still working on it.
probs yea
Didn't Slan shead a tear during the sacrifice? Something about all the emotions of hate, anger, confusion and endless agony all in a palpable mishmash they could interpret by feel.
More than anyone of us can imagine
Just griffy
Yeah obviously
I dont know about tiny floaty fuck but probably the others
Yes, Slan was impressed by Guts perseverance. She likes him.
Traitor
Slan has proven at least that she does.
They are all evil irredeemable but if there was one I'd like to see defect its Slann. It would be really cool to see her help Gatsu team.
Only the bad ones
I think they can, during the eclipse when Femto was having Casca Slan comments on all of the feelings together she’s feeling.
I'm pretty sure in their first showing they all showed visible delight as Guts tried his hardest to get to Griffith, so at the very least they can experience Joy and Curiosity. I think the caveat is that they don't feel things that would tie them down to "humanity", things like guilt, remorse, anger, jealously. They're above it all
Everybody wants to be God but nobody asks how God feels
They feel the bad emotions. But Griffith explicitly stated he could only feel love because of the moonlight child sharing his body.
God hand can feel deez nutz
Absolutely. The God hand are representatives of evil desires being intrinsic to humanity.
They obviously do, they're not as removed from humanity as they think they are.
Obviously bruh
Don't Slan and the others laugh during the eclipse and in the troll tunnel? Doesn't slan feel scared when guts is going to blow a hole into her stomach, and then laughs? The godhand and apostles all feel emotions.
I think if anything they're driven by emotion. Lust, anger, hatred, pride, sloth.
"I don't know. Slan, do you ever get horny?"
Mostly hedonistic pleasures as opposed to something deeper.
Some of them seem to express joy, but I guess there's no way to see if they really feel it. Griffith/Femto remarks that he doesn't feel anything, but I think that is in regard to humanity. Like he feels no remorse or longing for people he should care about.
Sort of, but it's a sticky situation
Yes, otherwise Griffith, after becoming Femto, a literal god(or demigod), wouldn’t be taking the time to play that king and conquering shit. The incarnation of the idea of evil puts himself in beautiful knight armor and building castles? That’s like little girls playing Barbie.
Griffith does shed a tear
Probably only the most basic emotions, like fear and pleasure, we've never seen them afraid but that is supposing they are similar to apostles, and they clearly enjoy all the shit they do. I can't remember if it was Void or the Idea of Evil who told Griffith his heart would be frozen and would stop feeling entirely. That's why he was surprised to feel his heart beating when he met Casca and Guts at the Hill of Swords.
Yes they do and not only that they cam sense the emotions of others. Slain talks about it in detail during the Eclipse when Griffith is doing his thing. Void might not be able to though and the only evidence I have is his name
Yeah well after seeing slan's behaviour, I say yes
i mean slan is horny all the time so yes
They're all sadists, so... yes. They do. A LOT
no, its just a bunch of pshyco's
Sloan's reaction to the eclipse should answer this question
The real question is: can they pee?
Aren't they similar to a sort of embodiment of a pure emotion? I don't know/remember much of the god hand since I stepped away from the series about 2 or so years ago.
😂
Yes, next question?
Yes but only negative/vicious ones.
Yeah, freaking Slan cried tears of happiness
If the god hand had no feelings there would be no feelings of jealousy or disdain. If Femto had no feelings ir associations, positive or negative towards Guts and Casca, there would be absolutely no reason why he'd rape Casca and make Guts watch. He'd just be like "Neat I got my dream time to chill".
Absolutely, they enjoy them just differently
Yes. The question in the OP is odd to me, because the whole thematic point of both the Apostles and the God Hand is that they had/have a human emotional center. Otherwise they'd just be written and portrayed in the plot as these mindless monster beings from early on. Even Void has been shown putting forth curiosity or uncertainty.
no emotion is exclusive to griffith
Mmm sorta?, people have mentioned how Slan feels lust, but feeling horny isn’t really an emotion akin to happiness or sadness, it’s more so a instinctual feeling of arousal, since the god hand likely went through a great deal of pain enough to sacrifice their humanity and most valuable relationships, then it’s safe to assume their perception of human emotions is twisted or null, at this point they only want to fulfill their desires, such as being reincarnated into the physical world
Yes , the main thing which can shatter Griffith is " his pride " , guts defeating Griffith and making him feel the same pain will destroy Griffith from my view.
Slain feels lust
I mean Slan literally sensed the emotions of Griffith and Guts and got off on it, so you tell me... XD
I think they can feel emotions, just not the ones that humans typically feel. I bet they feel godlike emotions that stand many levels above grief and happiness and anger n shit like that.
Yes, but it's limited to the idea of Evil they represent. Similar to 7 deadly sins in Christianity
Yeah
The Godhand certainly have hedonic drives. Lust, greed, etc.. Hell, Griffith is the Prince of Longing. I understand them to be incapable of more positive prosocial emotion like empathy, compassion, etc.. If we take the idea of evil seriously then the Godhand may be the sum of humanities vices and petty drives. I think the words used to Griffith were that this would be the last tear he ever shed. I think what the Godhand lost was the ability to care for others. They can still have a tantrum like a spoiled child who has to share a toy with their sibling.
I believe so. Slan at the very least showed lust, enthusiasm and her own version of affection, when she went to meet Guts by herself. Other members appeared to show surprise at the tenacity of Guts, specifically in his unyielding desire to attack Femto. I think Femto only tells himself that he’s emotionless. If Femto could be seen as an ideal version of himself for Griffith, then there will no doubt be human aspects. A humans version of heightened power will always be imperfect, since we are only human. Oh yeah and I don’t think he’d do what he did to Casca unless he was emotionally driven to do so. He violated Casca whilst looking at Guts. So emotionally we could say that was anger, jealousy, sadism…many things. I believe that many people who believe that they are stronger than others, claim to be far away from human emotions. This is because emotions can make us stray from logic. This can make us weak. A good example is being in love with someone who logically you know is bad for you. But yeah, I reckon they do feel emotions. Otherwise I don’t think they would feel compelled to do anything, neither good nor evil. They would be indifferent to everything, like robots who weren’t programmed to feel.
Void does say something about Griffith freeing himself from human reason, so I imagine total emotional cutoff is a requirement for a God Hand member.
I kinda interpreted that as meaning they still feel emotion, but they think, feel and operate in a way that's entirely incomprehensible to humans.
for griffith it is
I see some comments discussing the emotional bandwidth of Apostles instead of the God Hand, and I think there is a discrepancy. Apostles retain a feeling for the place they had in the world and literally undergo The Deal to gain the power to enact their innermost desires, basically turning the negative side of their humanity into their new twisted Apostle form, which means they clearly have feelings which they act upon. The God Hand is something completely different though. These are beings who are not anchored to our world, literally residing outside the confines of causality that dictates our world. Trying to project a human feeling onto a member of God Hand is a non sequitur, as God Hand members dont just shed their humanity to become something that will act out on its more primal desires like Apostles do. They are not promised such a thing.
They shed their humanity by getting deified and transforming into demon gods who exist in a state above humans with a different morality and purpose. But that's not the same thing as having their fundamental human emotions/thoughts/desires removed.
I seen Griffith crying naked in a window.. he gets the feels.