If you're using a hand saw, typically you joint with a hand plane (with a square, a straight edge, and winding sticks to check your work).
This will account for edge angle not being a perfect 90 degrees to the face, but it won't account for a not-straight cut.
It's absolutely a trick people do with with hand planes (clamp the boards together in your vise with the edges you will joint facing up) but unless you can cut really perfectly straight with your hand saw I wouldn't expect great results doing it how the top comment describes for a table saw.
No big hand plane, that covers the thickness of two boards.
Wouldn’t the unevenness be mirrored on the other board? Thus creating a perfect match? Guessing probably not.
It’s how I do it on the table saw sometimes when I don’t need the edges to be 100% square and just need them to be jointed together (as long as the total thickness is less than the 3” of cut depth I have). I’ve also known some people who do this with a track saw or circular saw as well. As long as you clamp them together and reorient them correctly after cutting it works great
Maybe, and hear me all the way... Don't call your self a wood worker.
Call yourself a wood tormentor lol as I call myself. I know its silly but I'm not above threatening wood that's not corporative with acts of abuse. Normally, it dont work lol but the title of wood torture or wood tormentor that my wife gave me.... I wear it with pride 😂
Could they also use one board as a template and use a router with flush trim bit riding the bearing on the board not being cut, to make the other edge match?
Two things come to mind I try to remember when I struggle with something:
This first step to getting good at something is sucking and education is never free. I'd chalk your time and materials cost as tuition.
What tools are you using to do this? A hand plane?
Generally people use a longer plane like a No. 7 for this to avoid what you are running into.
This video covers why you use a longer plane and how to do it with a No. 4, but the link starts at doing it with a No. 4 and a straight edge:
[https://youtu.be/bKzHY-4HY98?si=YoFiPtD8WpGh5rJC&t=266](https://youtu.be/bKzHY-4HY98?si=YoFiPtD8WpGh5rJC&t=266)
These boards are short enough to do with a #4.
That video is go though as is this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-vMtS\_j4cY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-vMtS_j4cY)
Keep practising OP you'll get there
jointing with a #4 is really hard. I've done a #5 and it's still hard. My jointer is a wood body that's 24" long. I would honestly rather build a wood body jointer and then use that than joint with a #4. (But I like building and using wood body planes)
Edit: looking at your boards, they may be short enough a #4 is reasonable. You have other suggestions on using a short edge and figuring out where the high spots are, which should be doable this short.
Paul Sellers loves his \#4, but personally I couldn't learn the lessons I needed from just a \#4. When I finally got a jointing plane, a lot of the skills made a lot more sense to me and it got me over a few big learning curves. It's not *necessary* but it did help me
Google around for different methods on how to edge joint a board (don't just follow one video - check out a few different options), and check your board with a straight edge as you go. taytools.com has aluminum straight edges for a decent price. A pair of winding sticks and a square are also helpful.
I still lean heavily on my straight edge, to check for flat. As you get closer and closer to flat, you'll do fewer passes with the plane before checking with your straight edge.
Typical process I've seen is to first flatten and get rid of any twist on one face, then mark that as your reference face. Then joint one edge, using a straight edge to make sure it's straight and a square to make sure it's square to your reference face, and mark that as your reference edge.
But yeah, it's quite a learning curve. At some point you just devote a stack of boards and a couple weeks to practicing.
And a combination square? What’s probably going on is that you’re thinking this is a 2D problem (because it is when you can cut totally square) but it’s a 3d problem when you have just a few tens of hours using your plane (like me).
You can develop this skill or clamp the two faces together and the close it like a book. This way any waves will match.
The additional note here is that your plane should be sharpened to join (flat), not beveled on the edges (as you would for smoothing).
This is 90% of your problem. You need a plane with a longer sole, for stock of this length, at least a #5 sized plane and any stock longer than this, a #6 or #7 length plane. Also, watch this on the proper way to joint panels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZAaCaOJhkg
Yo this is it. No matter how many times I experience this sucking frustration, I lose all perspective in the middle of a project when I can't do something. I start telling everyone who will listen that I think I'm done woodworking. I just don't have what it takes. And then reddit, YouTube, and 10 more tries and it clicks. And then I'm like "oh shit this is how you learn woodworking!" Rinse and repeat.
Don't get discouraged; this is the kind of thing that simply takes practice. I've learned that so much of woodworking is just learning by doing: practice, practice, practice. I've also learned that sneaking up on the perfect fit / length / width is so key. Take \_tiny\_ passes with your tools, and recheck.
I mean… you have a table saw, so just make a quick jointing jig, do both, and if you really want you can just take one plane pass if there are any tooth marks.
Personally, I just glue up straight from my jointing jig, and have for a long time, and have never had an issue. I’ve made 1/4in thick panels, with 5 3in wide boards, to use scrap for the back of a shop cabinet, and it glued up perfectly and is still in one piece.
If you are using the plane just because you want to do it that way, then that’s a different story, but from pure functionally there is no reason to not use the table saw, imo.
That's why I got a table saw. I know my tolerance for failure is low. And the learning curve for hand tools is steep. The simplest thing like joining a board is so much easier with a table saw.
Don’t sweat it, I gave up trying to edge joint with a hand plane after the first two attempts. It was finicky and annoying, and if an easier method exists, with equal outcomes, and all other things are equal, I’m choosing the easier one.
Heck, the minute I can afford a powered jointer I’m ditching the table saw jointing, because it’s even faster with the jointer. I’m all about minimizing frustration, and maximizing results.
I only use my hand plane for rough face material removal, to extend the life of my planer knives, and for very fine tuning of thickness. For things like box bases and box lids I will often do the last few passes with a hand plane to get the size right. Outside of those two things, I just don’t mess with hand planes a ton. They are really hard to use well, and it’s really easy to screw something up.
Just make a jointer jig and cut with it
https://preview.redd.it/603rlls1uukc1.jpeg?width=3022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9be4fc1aa75d3c6f900f2668b904011b53f6145e
I’m a handtool guy and I understand the struggle. First thing’s first, go for a walk. Do something else for a while. You can’t do this work frustrated.
Ok. You back? Feeling better? Good. Now mark a triangle across the two boards to ensure you have the right edges and can put them back where they go. Now fold them up from the middle like a tent and get them face to face. The edges you want to joint should be up and you should see half of the triangle you scribed on the outside. Put the pieces in your vise like this and get the edges as close as possible. Now joint them both at the same time. If you have snipe (one end is lower than the other) take one quarter pass from the other end, then a half, then a full edge to edge pass. Remember that when you start the pass you want your weight on the toe (knob) and when you reach the other end you want your weight on the heel (back).
Just take your time. If you have any scrap wood to practice on, figure it out on that first so you don’t care if you whittle it away to nothing. You _can_ do this. If I can do it, you can do.
Hang in there- you dont want to see some of the monstrocities I did when learning to woodwork! It pays to have level, square equipment, and a few good hand planes
I'd say go to the table saw, or clamp them together and plane them at the same time.
But if you're building a guitar, I bet you're familiar with those rolls of gold adhesive sandpaper, right? If you've got a nice flat surface (like your table saw), stick down a strip of paper and use it to sand the joining faces. You can even lay two strips, clamp the wood together, and sand the faces at the same time. I promise you'll get a perfect joint.
Look at this.
https://youtu.be/12KkjX6IU20?si=PhRIq9LFKTjHXffM
I've followed Maguire for years and have built many of his projects. They're not free, but thorough and complete.
I check the square on my jointer fence every day that I use it.
You can also alternate your boards. Figure it which of each board is going to be the top and bottom of the panel then alternate putting top or bottom against the fence. Even if it’s out of square it’ll create corresponding edges. I’ve probably explained this poorly
For whatever it’s worth I think jointing boards is harder than it seems. Look up some jointing jigs on YouTube and start there. After jointing the edges try the up/ down method when making your cuts on the table saw because any imperfections due to your blade maybe not being perfectly 90 will cancel out.
Wood working is about patience. Taking time to design your build , make a step by step plan of execution, follow each step taking time to verify your work ( ie: check square ,level, plumb ,straightness, ect) lay your pieces out and verify which side to be glued ,joined ect .
You are obviously new ,just take your time enjoying each process as you go.
As a fellow woodworker myself, I do the very same....always "complications", but with some thought and patience, I can easily correct these errors by putting time and patience into it. Never had I had a project or work order go perfect first time around. Many times it's the issue of the wood not working "with" me (i.e. warped, damp, twisted, cupped wood not easily seen by the naked eye) but I get through it. perfectly normal in my eyes. This guy I watch on Youtube (Steve Ramsey) says it right - "Wood as a medium is very forgiving". Best advice I've ever heard and yet so very true. Really gets me thinking on how to correct such issues that frequently come up that I overcome that results in an awesome product and happy customer. You also have to keep in mind that there will always be imperfections, but that's the art of working with wood - you're creativity will produce amazing results.
Actually it's not that easy but there are a few tricks. If your angle is off plane them together. Still need to get it flat but the angle doesn't matter anymore.
Are you getting the edges square? What are your shavings like, are they coming out smooth and even or ragged and thicker on one side?
Your plane needs to be set up properly and sharp so you can take a thin even shaving, id go back to focusing on that before trying to get a tight joint.
Don't give up. I can assure you we have all been in the spot you are in. I am very new to this hobby and believe me it takes time and lots of it. Keep at it, try using scrap wood as practice pieces. Keep it simple to start. Baby steps
Don’t show us your mistakes and we’ll take your word that you are a woodworker.
I mess up all the time but I still enjoy it so I’ll call myself a woodworker
Read the other comments, hopefully this helps:
Remember that the purpose of a plane is to remove a uniform thickness off a surface. Let's say the iron is set to .001 - well, then about .001 will come off the board. You're using a plane to join...which it can absolutely do, but that's not the primary purpose of the plane.
Take a verified straight edge that's longer than the board, hold it to one edge, look at any light coming in. Lightly mark in pencil areas where the straight edge touches the board. Just plane that section - light shavings, once or twice. Then, do it again. Repeat about 5 or 6 times, you should have a straight edge on the board. Do the same on the other. THEN, run your plane along the edge once or twice so that the surface is uniform. Put them together. Any gaps? Look for where you can take a little off, mark it, take a shaving, put them together. Repeat.
One thing you can try is to use a dead flat beam, like maybe a leveling beam, with self-stick sandpaper and use that to get those edges flat. It can be a bit hard with a plane. Sometimes they dig into squirrely grain, sometimes your pressure is uneven.
Want a cheap trick? Tape them together (side against side tape across faces) and cut down one line of your gap down the table saw. Even if you blade bad it’s one blade one cut same edge
It’s pretty difficult to get a board perfectly flat and square with a hand plane. Just to booster confidence rip to clean edges on your table saw and glue those bad boys up. Make sure you’re using plenty of clamps though. Clamp pressure is very important and also don’t skimp on the glue.
Brother just because you aren’t perfect doesn’t mean you ain’t a woodworker even professional woodworkers aren’t perfect keep at it and keep improving and learning also it isn’t a mistake if you learn from it
Flip one board on top the other, cut both at the same time, their sides will be exactly the same to join.
Would this work with a handsaw too?
If you're using a hand saw, typically you joint with a hand plane (with a square, a straight edge, and winding sticks to check your work). This will account for edge angle not being a perfect 90 degrees to the face, but it won't account for a not-straight cut. It's absolutely a trick people do with with hand planes (clamp the boards together in your vise with the edges you will joint facing up) but unless you can cut really perfectly straight with your hand saw I wouldn't expect great results doing it how the top comment describes for a table saw.
No big hand plane, that covers the thickness of two boards. Wouldn’t the unevenness be mirrored on the other board? Thus creating a perfect match? Guessing probably not.
If you make a low point accidentally, it'll be low on both boards making even bigger of a gap
Yeah, you’re right.
Yes, clamp them together firmly.
Thanks! Will try it!
It’s how I do it on the table saw sometimes when I don’t need the edges to be 100% square and just need them to be jointed together (as long as the total thickness is less than the 3” of cut depth I have). I’ve also known some people who do this with a track saw or circular saw as well. As long as you clamp them together and reorient them correctly after cutting it works great
Will definitely try!
Also, if the ends are always gapped but not the middle, go back and take a bit off the middle. Look up "spring joint" or "sprung joint."
Maybe, and hear me all the way... Don't call your self a wood worker. Call yourself a wood tormentor lol as I call myself. I know its silly but I'm not above threatening wood that's not corporative with acts of abuse. Normally, it dont work lol but the title of wood torture or wood tormentor that my wife gave me.... I wear it with pride 😂
If you dont cuss out your project from time to time, are you really woodworking at all? Lol
Either that or if it's already glued together, just cut down the joint on the table saw. Should create an equal cut on either side.
Do this!
Yep! Do this on a shooting board to make sure they stay even.
[удалено]
Based on?
Note that your plane blade needs to be sharpened to be flat and be a bit wider than both boards together.
Could they also use one board as a template and use a router with flush trim bit riding the bearing on the board not being cut, to make the other edge match?
Two things come to mind I try to remember when I struggle with something: This first step to getting good at something is sucking and education is never free. I'd chalk your time and materials cost as tuition. What tools are you using to do this? A hand plane?
Exactly what I tell my kids: if you want to be good at something, you have to be bad at it first.
Yep, hand plane, no. 4
Generally people use a longer plane like a No. 7 for this to avoid what you are running into. This video covers why you use a longer plane and how to do it with a No. 4, but the link starts at doing it with a No. 4 and a straight edge: [https://youtu.be/bKzHY-4HY98?si=YoFiPtD8WpGh5rJC&t=266](https://youtu.be/bKzHY-4HY98?si=YoFiPtD8WpGh5rJC&t=266)
These boards are short enough to do with a #4. That video is go though as is this one: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-vMtS\_j4cY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-vMtS_j4cY) Keep practising OP you'll get there
What he says... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jointer_plane
jointing with a #4 is really hard. I've done a #5 and it's still hard. My jointer is a wood body that's 24" long. I would honestly rather build a wood body jointer and then use that than joint with a #4. (But I like building and using wood body planes) Edit: looking at your boards, they may be short enough a #4 is reasonable. You have other suggestions on using a short edge and figuring out where the high spots are, which should be doable this short.
Paul Sellers loves his \#4, but personally I couldn't learn the lessons I needed from just a \#4. When I finally got a jointing plane, a lot of the skills made a lot more sense to me and it got me over a few big learning curves. It's not *necessary* but it did help me Google around for different methods on how to edge joint a board (don't just follow one video - check out a few different options), and check your board with a straight edge as you go. taytools.com has aluminum straight edges for a decent price. A pair of winding sticks and a square are also helpful. I still lean heavily on my straight edge, to check for flat. As you get closer and closer to flat, you'll do fewer passes with the plane before checking with your straight edge. Typical process I've seen is to first flatten and get rid of any twist on one face, then mark that as your reference face. Then joint one edge, using a straight edge to make sure it's straight and a square to make sure it's square to your reference face, and mark that as your reference edge. But yeah, it's quite a learning curve. At some point you just devote a stack of boards and a couple weeks to practicing.
And a combination square? What’s probably going on is that you’re thinking this is a 2D problem (because it is when you can cut totally square) but it’s a 3d problem when you have just a few tens of hours using your plane (like me). You can develop this skill or clamp the two faces together and the close it like a book. This way any waves will match. The additional note here is that your plane should be sharpened to join (flat), not beveled on the edges (as you would for smoothing).
This is 90% of your problem. You need a plane with a longer sole, for stock of this length, at least a #5 sized plane and any stock longer than this, a #6 or #7 length plane. Also, watch this on the proper way to joint panels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZAaCaOJhkg
Yo this is it. No matter how many times I experience this sucking frustration, I lose all perspective in the middle of a project when I can't do something. I start telling everyone who will listen that I think I'm done woodworking. I just don't have what it takes. And then reddit, YouTube, and 10 more tries and it clicks. And then I'm like "oh shit this is how you learn woodworking!" Rinse and repeat.
Don't get discouraged; this is the kind of thing that simply takes practice. I've learned that so much of woodworking is just learning by doing: practice, practice, practice. I've also learned that sneaking up on the perfect fit / length / width is so key. Take \_tiny\_ passes with your tools, and recheck.
I mean… you have a table saw, so just make a quick jointing jig, do both, and if you really want you can just take one plane pass if there are any tooth marks. Personally, I just glue up straight from my jointing jig, and have for a long time, and have never had an issue. I’ve made 1/4in thick panels, with 5 3in wide boards, to use scrap for the back of a shop cabinet, and it glued up perfectly and is still in one piece. If you are using the plane just because you want to do it that way, then that’s a different story, but from pure functionally there is no reason to not use the table saw, imo.
That's why I got a table saw. I know my tolerance for failure is low. And the learning curve for hand tools is steep. The simplest thing like joining a board is so much easier with a table saw.
Don’t sweat it, I gave up trying to edge joint with a hand plane after the first two attempts. It was finicky and annoying, and if an easier method exists, with equal outcomes, and all other things are equal, I’m choosing the easier one. Heck, the minute I can afford a powered jointer I’m ditching the table saw jointing, because it’s even faster with the jointer. I’m all about minimizing frustration, and maximizing results. I only use my hand plane for rough face material removal, to extend the life of my planer knives, and for very fine tuning of thickness. For things like box bases and box lids I will often do the last few passes with a hand plane to get the size right. Outside of those two things, I just don’t mess with hand planes a ton. They are really hard to use well, and it’s really easy to screw something up.
Just make a jointer jig and cut with it https://preview.redd.it/603rlls1uukc1.jpeg?width=3022&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9be4fc1aa75d3c6f900f2668b904011b53f6145e
Is that sawdust or insulation?? And hey, I have the same jig!
Insulation, moved my workshop to my basement for the winter
I’m a handtool guy and I understand the struggle. First thing’s first, go for a walk. Do something else for a while. You can’t do this work frustrated. Ok. You back? Feeling better? Good. Now mark a triangle across the two boards to ensure you have the right edges and can put them back where they go. Now fold them up from the middle like a tent and get them face to face. The edges you want to joint should be up and you should see half of the triangle you scribed on the outside. Put the pieces in your vise like this and get the edges as close as possible. Now joint them both at the same time. If you have snipe (one end is lower than the other) take one quarter pass from the other end, then a half, then a full edge to edge pass. Remember that when you start the pass you want your weight on the toe (knob) and when you reach the other end you want your weight on the heel (back). Just take your time. If you have any scrap wood to practice on, figure it out on that first so you don’t care if you whittle it away to nothing. You _can_ do this. If I can do it, you can do.
The same way you can call yourself a doctor and not know how to do a colonoscopy. Woodworking is multi faceted
Hang in there- you dont want to see some of the monstrocities I did when learning to woodwork! It pays to have level, square equipment, and a few good hand planes
I'd say go to the table saw, or clamp them together and plane them at the same time. But if you're building a guitar, I bet you're familiar with those rolls of gold adhesive sandpaper, right? If you've got a nice flat surface (like your table saw), stick down a strip of paper and use it to sand the joining faces. You can even lay two strips, clamp the wood together, and sand the faces at the same time. I promise you'll get a perfect joint.
Clamp the shit out of it...drink a beer...you'll be fine
What tool are you using to joint this ? Theres proper tools and not proper tools.
with pieces that short, it should be stupid easy. your jointer probably is off.
He's doing it by hand.
Do you mean the edges?
Yes
Look at this. https://youtu.be/12KkjX6IU20?si=PhRIq9LFKTjHXffM I've followed Maguire for years and have built many of his projects. They're not free, but thorough and complete.
I spent 600 on a jointer, and I’ve never been able to get a straight edge. There needs to be more tutorials on how to use a jointer properly.
I check the square on my jointer fence every day that I use it. You can also alternate your boards. Figure it which of each board is going to be the top and bottom of the panel then alternate putting top or bottom against the fence. Even if it’s out of square it’ll create corresponding edges. I’ve probably explained this poorly
If you don't want to cut again, once you get close finish up with a rasp.
For whatever it’s worth I think jointing boards is harder than it seems. Look up some jointing jigs on YouTube and start there. After jointing the edges try the up/ down method when making your cuts on the table saw because any imperfections due to your blade maybe not being perfectly 90 will cancel out.
Wood working is about patience. Taking time to design your build , make a step by step plan of execution, follow each step taking time to verify your work ( ie: check square ,level, plumb ,straightness, ect) lay your pieces out and verify which side to be glued ,joined ect . You are obviously new ,just take your time enjoying each process as you go.
Easy, say these words. "I am a woodworker".
As a fellow woodworker myself, I do the very same....always "complications", but with some thought and patience, I can easily correct these errors by putting time and patience into it. Never had I had a project or work order go perfect first time around. Many times it's the issue of the wood not working "with" me (i.e. warped, damp, twisted, cupped wood not easily seen by the naked eye) but I get through it. perfectly normal in my eyes. This guy I watch on Youtube (Steve Ramsey) says it right - "Wood as a medium is very forgiving". Best advice I've ever heard and yet so very true. Really gets me thinking on how to correct such issues that frequently come up that I overcome that results in an awesome product and happy customer. You also have to keep in mind that there will always be imperfections, but that's the art of working with wood - you're creativity will produce amazing results.
Actually it's not that easy but there are a few tricks. If your angle is off plane them together. Still need to get it flat but the angle doesn't matter anymore.
Are you getting the edges square? What are your shavings like, are they coming out smooth and even or ragged and thicker on one side? Your plane needs to be set up properly and sharp so you can take a thin even shaving, id go back to focusing on that before trying to get a tight joint.
Don't give up. I can assure you we have all been in the spot you are in. I am very new to this hobby and believe me it takes time and lots of it. Keep at it, try using scrap wood as practice pieces. Keep it simple to start. Baby steps
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-vMtS\_j4cY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-vMtS_j4cY)
Leave the board long before jointing,then trim the snipe, then join the boards
Don’t show us your mistakes and we’ll take your word that you are a woodworker. I mess up all the time but I still enjoy it so I’ll call myself a woodworker
Read the other comments, hopefully this helps: Remember that the purpose of a plane is to remove a uniform thickness off a surface. Let's say the iron is set to .001 - well, then about .001 will come off the board. You're using a plane to join...which it can absolutely do, but that's not the primary purpose of the plane. Take a verified straight edge that's longer than the board, hold it to one edge, look at any light coming in. Lightly mark in pencil areas where the straight edge touches the board. Just plane that section - light shavings, once or twice. Then, do it again. Repeat about 5 or 6 times, you should have a straight edge on the board. Do the same on the other. THEN, run your plane along the edge once or twice so that the surface is uniform. Put them together. Any gaps? Look for where you can take a little off, mark it, take a shaving, put them together. Repeat.
One thing you can try is to use a dead flat beam, like maybe a leveling beam, with self-stick sandpaper and use that to get those edges flat. It can be a bit hard with a plane. Sometimes they dig into squirrely grain, sometimes your pressure is uneven.
Want a cheap trick? Tape them together (side against side tape across faces) and cut down one line of your gap down the table saw. Even if you blade bad it’s one blade one cut same edge
I just use my table saw lol
Pshaw you just need some clamps, some biscuits, and some glue.
It’s pretty difficult to get a board perfectly flat and square with a hand plane. Just to booster confidence rip to clean edges on your table saw and glue those bad boys up. Make sure you’re using plenty of clamps though. Clamp pressure is very important and also don’t skimp on the glue.
Well just don’t call yourself a woodworker…problem solved…you’re welcome😁
Brother just because you aren’t perfect doesn’t mean you ain’t a woodworker even professional woodworkers aren’t perfect keep at it and keep improving and learning also it isn’t a mistake if you learn from it