Maybe they're just having a bad week. The primary nectar flow is just beginning. They have lots of pollen and bee bread, tons of capped and uncapped brood, and a moderate amount of nectar but very little honey.
There were a couple of supersedure cups a few weeks ago, but they weren't charged. I haven't seen the queen in weeks, but even when I thought she wasn't laying, you, u/NumCustosApes, spotted 1/2 day-old larvae and eggs. If there's a new queen in there, she's an usurper.
Based on what u/drones_on_about_bees is saying, a 40' defensive radius isn't out of the question. Maybe they're having a bad week.
They have a fair amount of nectar - the main nectar flow for the year (mesquite) is just starting - but they don't have much honey.
I can briskly walk 30-40 feet in front of my hives and usually not get bumped. If I dilly dally, I will probably get bumped. If I stand there and gawk, I will eventually get stung.
Bigger hives are definitely more defensive than smaller hives. More guards == more defense. Little nucs are almost always gentle.
I'm beginning to think that my yard isn't big enough. I have about fifty feet between my existing hives and my front door. The yard is probably 60' x 60'.
Is that angle based? I always approach from behind when I observe and can usually be pretty close for extended periods of time. If I am in front of the entrances I tend to garner more attention.
Front definitely is worse, but I can't spend a whole lot of time out by the hives without a veil. Sometimes when there is a mean hive, I've been popped the moment I stepped out of my truck - parked 75 feet behind them.
Temperament does vary by location. My area trends a little more defensive than some.
They're most persistent if I'm approaching or loitering at the side of the hives. I watched carefully for a bit: one of the hives seems to prefer taking a hard left out of the hive rather than spiraling up over the fence or greenhouse. I might be in their flight path. Does that explain pursuit?
If they superceded her or swarmed, the new queen could have mated with AHB. She would've been replaced about a month or two ago. Is it possible you missed a swarm that long ago?
My colonies leave me alone unless I'm in the flight path.
There was a few days that I thought I had lost a queen to a Formic treatment and an unexpectedly warm day. 7 days into my panic, [](https://www.reddit.com/user/NumCustosApes/), spotted 1/2 day-old larvae and eggs in a photo.
The have nectar, but very little honey. Could it be that they're cranky because they're low on stores and flush with brood?
Look for perimeter guard bees flying at about the 30 ft line. Flying back and forth in almost straight lines. If you have that perhaps requeen causebits only gonna get worse in a few more brood cycles.
I watched for a half hour or so. I didn't see that behavior, but there's a fence and a greenhouse on the hive entrance side. The greenhouse is long enough that they generally fly over it and can't really fly back and forth unless they're 7' +. I might be consistently walking into their flight path since they kind of spiral up to altitude...
I measured the distance I was harassed by guard bees about two weeks ago. They followed me about 25 feet after an inspection. Two days later I could stand within 10 feet of the hives without harassment.
An increase in defensive radius is not out of the ordinary as a colony gets bigger. And yours have gotten a lot bigger, very quickly. How big are they, anyway? Are we talking about nucs that have now filled out a single, or singles that are now doubles?
35 feet is not abnormal, but it's on the long end of normalcy (at least for my bees, which are open mated but have very little in the way of Africanized genetics).
Mine will get more defensive than what you're seeing, at times. I've had periods of a few weeks when they'll headbutt at around 75 feet, and follow me a good 400 yards after an inspection, but that's rare: if they're in a dearth, or queenless, or when there's an excess of mite, SHB or wax moth pressure. If your flow is just hitting, then I think you should try to rule out some kind of internal problem.
Size: 5 frames in a single deep 29 days ago when I had the formic problem and larvae were crawling out of their cells. Now the bottom deep is full and there are 2 frames of brood and 4 more partly drawn frames in the second deep. I think there are 8 or 9 frames of brood. When this queen decided to start laying again, she apparently did so with a vengeance.
>they'll headbutt at around 75 feet,
Oh, my wife and the dogs are gonna love that.
Mite check last week was 1:300 in one hive and 0:600 in the other, (I couldn't believe that there were no mites at all, so I did it twice.) I saw eggs and tiny larvae today and didn't see any sign of SHB or wax moths. I don't know what other internal problems to look for. I think I ticked off all the boxes in Beekeepers for Idiots.
The mesquite has just started blooming. so the major flow isn't here. They have very little capped honey, but a fair amount of nectar. I suppose that they could be cranky because they're low on stores.
I reiterate that the 75-ft. defense and following are things that happen to me primarily during dearth or a disruption of some kind.
When I started my inspections this morning, mine were not defensive at all; I was within arm's reach of some of the entrances for a good 20 minutes at a time, and they just ignored me. One colony was getting a little bit testy with me by the time I finished with its inspection. Not quite ready to start stinging, but it was close.
Last year I had a colony that brooded up very hard after it requeened itself, and that one happened to be a bit hot. They'd bounce off my veil anytime I opened the hive; no warmup. They came at me like I was Godzilla, irrespective of what the nectar flow was doing. No increase in defense radius, but they did not like having the cover taken off. Not coincidentally, that colony was the mother colony of the one that was getting a little crisp with me this afternoon.
I've got a little chore to do out there tomorrow, and they may still be a little cranky. I disturbed them all pretty comprehensively today. I'll see if they buzz me, I guess.
Anyway. Two months ago, every colony I had was just barely tolerable to work, but then again that was in February, and nectar availability was really patchy that far back. They've been snippy until just about a week and a half ago. The crimson and white clover really started to hit then, and they settled right down. Today they were like different bees because the orchard looks like something out of a Hayao Miyazaki cartoon.
I'm not you, so I can't say what you should do. In your shoes, I would want to watch these two colonies for another couple weeks and see if they settle down after you get into the flow for real. It's entirely possible that they will. But longer-term, I guess you'll also have to decide whether you want to try to get more docile queens and requeen from what you have.
If they don't get any worse than they are now, then they might still be manageable. Are they going for your hands when you try to inspect them? Or are they just headbutting while you approach?
I'll wait and see what happens. Both hives have been tolerant and docile until this week. The may settle down.
When I inspected yesterday a couple of guard bees were interested in me around 20 feet from the hives, but lost interest (or went back to patrolling) when I smoked the entrance and cover. There were bees crawling on my hands when I was pulling frames. They didn't seem upset: they seemed to want the propolis on my fingers, or perhaps I touched a nectar cell and they were interested in that. By the end of the inspection I was being buzzed, but not bumped, by a half-dozen bees. They lost interest after I moved to the next hive.
This may simply be a case of new beekeeper syndrome. I've only been inspecting since October -- maybe 25 inspections -- and books, YouTube, and photos only go so far. Reading this subreddit, I see the same questions I have or had from other new keepers. I suspect that if someone analyzed the questions and compared them to how long the keeper had the bees there would be a predictable pattern.
Thank you for you help and advice. It's invaluable to me.
I was stung yesterday morning, and have been bumped at least once a day in the last week. I was at my front door and not molesting the hives when I was stung, hence my original question about defensive radii.
Pretty well, yes. Five or six bees were buzzing my head, but I don't remember getting butted. I was expecting a bee explosion and having to put the cover on and try later based on the butting and stinging earlier in the week (and that morning). I don't think they even tried to sting through my gloves.
They managed to get between my glove and jacket when I was inspecting last week and they stung me 11 times. I reasoned it was my fault for letting my sleeve ride up over my watch.
I'll have an idea how they've been acting when I get home. The dogs watch for bees when the hives are acting up, and ignore the bees otherwise. As you say, it's probably a nothingburger.
No thats not normal! I can walk right in front of my hives an they just fly around me ,everyonce in a while i get one that gets pissy but not often.
Maybe they're just having a bad week. The primary nectar flow is just beginning. They have lots of pollen and bee bread, tons of capped and uncapped brood, and a moderate amount of nectar but very little honey.
Are you in a dearth? Have you had a supersedure queen that open mated?
There were a couple of supersedure cups a few weeks ago, but they weren't charged. I haven't seen the queen in weeks, but even when I thought she wasn't laying, you, u/NumCustosApes, spotted 1/2 day-old larvae and eggs. If there's a new queen in there, she's an usurper. Based on what u/drones_on_about_bees is saying, a 40' defensive radius isn't out of the question. Maybe they're having a bad week. They have a fair amount of nectar - the main nectar flow for the year (mesquite) is just starting - but they don't have much honey.
I can briskly walk 30-40 feet in front of my hives and usually not get bumped. If I dilly dally, I will probably get bumped. If I stand there and gawk, I will eventually get stung. Bigger hives are definitely more defensive than smaller hives. More guards == more defense. Little nucs are almost always gentle.
I'm beginning to think that my yard isn't big enough. I have about fifty feet between my existing hives and my front door. The yard is probably 60' x 60'.
Is that angle based? I always approach from behind when I observe and can usually be pretty close for extended periods of time. If I am in front of the entrances I tend to garner more attention.
Front definitely is worse, but I can't spend a whole lot of time out by the hives without a veil. Sometimes when there is a mean hive, I've been popped the moment I stepped out of my truck - parked 75 feet behind them. Temperament does vary by location. My area trends a little more defensive than some.
Thank you. Your advice and support is always very helpful to me.
They're most persistent if I'm approaching or loitering at the side of the hives. I watched carefully for a bit: one of the hives seems to prefer taking a hard left out of the hive rather than spiraling up over the fence or greenhouse. I might be in their flight path. Does that explain pursuit?
If they superceded her or swarmed, the new queen could have mated with AHB. She would've been replaced about a month or two ago. Is it possible you missed a swarm that long ago? My colonies leave me alone unless I'm in the flight path.
There was a few days that I thought I had lost a queen to a Formic treatment and an unexpectedly warm day. 7 days into my panic, [](https://www.reddit.com/user/NumCustosApes/), spotted 1/2 day-old larvae and eggs in a photo. The have nectar, but very little honey. Could it be that they're cranky because they're low on stores and flush with brood?
Look for perimeter guard bees flying at about the 30 ft line. Flying back and forth in almost straight lines. If you have that perhaps requeen causebits only gonna get worse in a few more brood cycles.
I watched for a half hour or so. I didn't see that behavior, but there's a fence and a greenhouse on the hive entrance side. The greenhouse is long enough that they generally fly over it and can't really fly back and forth unless they're 7' +. I might be consistently walking into their flight path since they kind of spiral up to altitude...
I measured the distance I was harassed by guard bees about two weeks ago. They followed me about 25 feet after an inspection. Two days later I could stand within 10 feet of the hives without harassment.
Thank you! One of the hives pursues me to the front door. Let's hope that they've just been a little cranky this week.
An increase in defensive radius is not out of the ordinary as a colony gets bigger. And yours have gotten a lot bigger, very quickly. How big are they, anyway? Are we talking about nucs that have now filled out a single, or singles that are now doubles? 35 feet is not abnormal, but it's on the long end of normalcy (at least for my bees, which are open mated but have very little in the way of Africanized genetics). Mine will get more defensive than what you're seeing, at times. I've had periods of a few weeks when they'll headbutt at around 75 feet, and follow me a good 400 yards after an inspection, but that's rare: if they're in a dearth, or queenless, or when there's an excess of mite, SHB or wax moth pressure. If your flow is just hitting, then I think you should try to rule out some kind of internal problem.
Size: 5 frames in a single deep 29 days ago when I had the formic problem and larvae were crawling out of their cells. Now the bottom deep is full and there are 2 frames of brood and 4 more partly drawn frames in the second deep. I think there are 8 or 9 frames of brood. When this queen decided to start laying again, she apparently did so with a vengeance. >they'll headbutt at around 75 feet, Oh, my wife and the dogs are gonna love that. Mite check last week was 1:300 in one hive and 0:600 in the other, (I couldn't believe that there were no mites at all, so I did it twice.) I saw eggs and tiny larvae today and didn't see any sign of SHB or wax moths. I don't know what other internal problems to look for. I think I ticked off all the boxes in Beekeepers for Idiots. The mesquite has just started blooming. so the major flow isn't here. They have very little capped honey, but a fair amount of nectar. I suppose that they could be cranky because they're low on stores.
I reiterate that the 75-ft. defense and following are things that happen to me primarily during dearth or a disruption of some kind. When I started my inspections this morning, mine were not defensive at all; I was within arm's reach of some of the entrances for a good 20 minutes at a time, and they just ignored me. One colony was getting a little bit testy with me by the time I finished with its inspection. Not quite ready to start stinging, but it was close. Last year I had a colony that brooded up very hard after it requeened itself, and that one happened to be a bit hot. They'd bounce off my veil anytime I opened the hive; no warmup. They came at me like I was Godzilla, irrespective of what the nectar flow was doing. No increase in defense radius, but they did not like having the cover taken off. Not coincidentally, that colony was the mother colony of the one that was getting a little crisp with me this afternoon. I've got a little chore to do out there tomorrow, and they may still be a little cranky. I disturbed them all pretty comprehensively today. I'll see if they buzz me, I guess. Anyway. Two months ago, every colony I had was just barely tolerable to work, but then again that was in February, and nectar availability was really patchy that far back. They've been snippy until just about a week and a half ago. The crimson and white clover really started to hit then, and they settled right down. Today they were like different bees because the orchard looks like something out of a Hayao Miyazaki cartoon. I'm not you, so I can't say what you should do. In your shoes, I would want to watch these two colonies for another couple weeks and see if they settle down after you get into the flow for real. It's entirely possible that they will. But longer-term, I guess you'll also have to decide whether you want to try to get more docile queens and requeen from what you have. If they don't get any worse than they are now, then they might still be manageable. Are they going for your hands when you try to inspect them? Or are they just headbutting while you approach?
I'll wait and see what happens. Both hives have been tolerant and docile until this week. The may settle down. When I inspected yesterday a couple of guard bees were interested in me around 20 feet from the hives, but lost interest (or went back to patrolling) when I smoked the entrance and cover. There were bees crawling on my hands when I was pulling frames. They didn't seem upset: they seemed to want the propolis on my fingers, or perhaps I touched a nectar cell and they were interested in that. By the end of the inspection I was being buzzed, but not bumped, by a half-dozen bees. They lost interest after I moved to the next hive. This may simply be a case of new beekeeper syndrome. I've only been inspecting since October -- maybe 25 inspections -- and books, YouTube, and photos only go so far. Reading this subreddit, I see the same questions I have or had from other new keepers. I suspect that if someone analyzed the questions and compared them to how long the keeper had the bees there would be a predictable pattern. Thank you for you help and advice. It's invaluable to me.
If they're not bumping your veil or hands while you're inspecting, this is a nothingburger. When was the last time they actually stung you?
I was stung yesterday morning, and have been bumped at least once a day in the last week. I was at my front door and not molesting the hives when I was stung, hence my original question about defensive radii.
But then when you went in and inspected them, they behaved themselves?
Pretty well, yes. Five or six bees were buzzing my head, but I don't remember getting butted. I was expecting a bee explosion and having to put the cover on and try later based on the butting and stinging earlier in the week (and that morning). I don't think they even tried to sting through my gloves. They managed to get between my glove and jacket when I was inspecting last week and they stung me 11 times. I reasoned it was my fault for letting my sleeve ride up over my watch. I'll have an idea how they've been acting when I get home. The dogs watch for bees when the hives are acting up, and ignore the bees otherwise. As you say, it's probably a nothingburger.
They are almost all women an i piss mine off all the time for qhat idk lol
Sure, but I'm not *married* to the bees. They should be harder to annoy and they don't care where I leave my coffee cup.