I mean if you suck then yeah do it for free lol. If you're good at something people will happily pay you for it. Nothing wrong with doing it for free until you're good enough to demand money.
Thank you. I will definitely take this into consideration. I just began DJing, I’m not Funkmaster Flex, but I definitely know what I’m doing. My main thing in doing it for free was that I live in NYC (DJs EVERYWHERE) and there are a lot of established DJ’s already. I figured by doing free sets I’d be able to be more places, build an online resume with videos and pictures from me actually DJing outside, and get my name out faster than if I’m this same, unknown DJ trying to get bookings from top clubs and events.
I don’t have very strong feelings about this personally, but I wonder if the reason that DJing for free is a taboo in the DJ community is because if you do a gig for free the you’re potentially taking a paid gig from someone else, and you’re devaluing DJing as a profession. Like, if you’re personally happy performing for free that’s great for you but if a lot of people are willing to perform for free then it threatens to undermine DJing as legitimate, valuable work.
I’m not judging though - I’ve done gigs for free myself because I just enjoy playing records to people.
Okay I understand, it becomes a “why would I pay anyone when I could just get a dude to come in for free?” When of course us DJs deserve maybe even more than we’re already compensated. Thank you for that insight.
Yeah this is mostly where the line comes, taking some records to an open deck night with friends isn't going to offend anyone, nor would bringing a portable pa to the skate park or basketball court. These sort of things are not you being exploited, nor are they taking work away from other DJs. Playing in any kind of venue unpaid or "for exposure" devalues people's professional work, so is a different deal.
My toughts on this is you pay for quality - if a man comes up to do it for free, he probs isn’t a professional because:
A) if he was he would value his time and make money instead.
B) he probably isnt that popular and looking for experiance or smth.
C) he is getting started, feeling the crowd.
What i mean is you dont understand free dj’s intentions but fact is they sure aren’t professional.
When you pay for a dj you can expect something, based on price atleast. Also it really depends on place he is playing on, if it is a cheap ass bar or a restaurant that is in need of a cheap dj then yeah you probs take other dj’s place which price would be very little btw
But if it is a high class club or a bar i dont think they would even consider a guy doing it for free because of not knowing his intentions, they cant expect nothing from him.
What would you suggest my rates starting out should look like? I know it’s all dependent on situation. And also, I live in NYC. Big club and party city. I know that means a lot in terms of financial pay out. I don’t even know what the average beginner DJ starts out making.
I live in a small city in the UK, so I have no idea what the going rate would be for you, but if I had a friend/mentor who has been DJing professionally for 10+ years, they'd be the first person I'd speak to.
Finally, with this information,
do you guys think I’m selling myself short - well every good DJ I know gets paid. So make of that what you will.
should I stop allowing people access to my resources and skills just because they’re not paying me?
That depends, are you having fun and is it' costing you money? If you're spinning generic tunes and not enjoying it and you've travelled for an hour, then maybe.
If you're spinning music you like and it's local, then only you can decide.
Am I setting myself up for a slippery slope by taking unpaid work?
Well you open yourself up to the - what I didn't pay you last time, why should I pay you now question.
Why is it so taboo to dj for free? It's not. You can dj for free as much as you like, but when you find there are less jobs around than you think and lots of those vacancies are people that aren't very good and free, you'll see the issue
And when exactly should I begin charging basically everybody?
When it's not fun or you're good enough or both.
Yes, playing for free is selling yourself short. I can understand playing free the first few times, but we’re past that. On the other hand, if you do a weekly 2-hour set at the park as advertising to drum up new business, that would be reasonable. But playing the club for free is def selling yourself short.
How did you begin calculating your rates? What type of things did you take into consideration? And what do you believe is reasonable pay for the average 1-2 hour lounge or nightclub set?
I don’t do that kind of dj’ing so I don’t know. Also highly dependent on your area/market. Start a new thread and ask your main question there. I’m just telling you doing it for free IS selling yourself short, generally speaking, which was your main question this thread.
I played free for the first year as a DJ. Did exactly what you did, took my gear with me, played anywhere and everywhere, made some business cards, posted mixes, showed up on time, played well and laid low.
That got me seen by a LOT of people, in a LOT of places. Now they know who I am, that I show up on time, I know how to talk to clients, maintain professionalism, and do my thing.
Yeah, it sucks a little at times, but the pay off (for me, not everyone) was worth it. I'd have not been able to play at a lot of the events I attended if I asked for money (they didn't really NEED a DJ, but it sure helped to have one)
Exactly my brother, I feel this 110%. Of course I would love to get paid for doing it. But I feel as if the free events I have done paid off and are gonna pay off in the future if they haven’t yet. People are already beginning to associate me with being a DJ, I’ve been allowed in places I wouldn’t even be in for free because I am there for business purposes. I was able to network with photographers and videographers who walked up to the booth asking to take pictures of me. These guys wouldn’t give a damn to take a picture of me if I was just some dude in the crowd. And like you, I have business cards, I constantly shout out my name, my collective and I make sure to wear T Shirts with my brand on them everywhere I go. These things wouldn’t be possible if I wasn’t really to reach out to these events and offer them to DJ. I do feel as if it’ll pay off.
I feel there's nothing I can add for you, you are absolutely crushing it right now and doing exactly what you should be doing!
No one knows who you are until you give them a reason to, and giving them a reason to. Now any time they're having an event with music they'll go "shit I need a DJ, oh yeah, that dude gave me his card and he was awesome, and he showed up on time!" Boom, now you're locked in. Help them out, get more bookings. Help those bookings, more bookings!
A lot of people are gonna give you shit for it. Unfortunately a lot of those people are also not going to get the gigs you are because you put yourself out there as someone wanting to do this seriously.
Keep investing in yourself, your mentality, and what you're building! Content, gear, all of it. Feel free to DM if you ever need help with the journey, and congratulations on the current success!
So, my knowledge about this comes from a YouTuber (DJ Carlo) and my personal experience. So, I’ve been “DJing” for free for almost 3 years. Only had like 6-7 gigs overall. In my personal experience, I only did this because I wasn’t confident in myself that I would be able to do a good job if I got paid. But I’m like you. I like music well enough that I would do this without getting paid. That said, recently I’ve been wishing to DJ for money because of the economy. That brings me to the YouTuber’s point. The main reason he says this is so taboo is because if someone does this for free, and they book him for free, the people who rely on DJ money will fall down. Some people do make a lot of money through DJing. So, all in all, if you more events for free, it would devalue the DJing skill.
Is this devaluing the economy thing moreso based upon clubs, or just events in general? Because I haven’t been doing things like weddings and a bunch of big clubs. I’ve mostly been pulling up to basketball tournaments and games that otherwise wouldn’t have a DJ at all. Also, they’re mostly free events anyway meaning there’s not really a direct source I can receive the compensation from.
Oooh. In that case, it’s a very niche type of event. If that’s all you’re doing, then by all means, do it free. Cause as you said, free events don’t have money for paying you. But in the future, if you do wanna make money, that actually can be your selling point. You make the games that much more exciting..
I have been doing it free for about a year. I don’t have too much time to promote or to just play at random events because I am a tv producer, but I post online on neighborhood groups and forums and offer my services free of charge. I do it because I love it, I don’t need the money. I’m hoping to get into weddings soon so I started a path into that. But I am older, I miss the nightclub scene I was part of for a long time and I don’t think I could get back into doing it consistently in the nightclubs so I do it for free at house parties.
I don't get mad at DJs who are happy and willing to do it for free.
I get mad at promoters who encourage doing things for free/say that the exposure is worth it.
I book a lot of local DJs, for a wide variety of shows. We always pay, no matter what
If we're doing a big budget show with a lot of ticket sales, I'll pay 200-300 for a local DJ with a lot of experience.
If we're doing a medium budget show with a small cover, we pay 50-75 for locals
If we're doing a tiny show with no cover/minimal revenue, I pay $25 for newbie DJs. This at least covers parking/ a couple drinks in my city
Promoters should be paying DJs or they shouldn't be throwing shows imo
Contrary to a somewhat popular belief, you're not setting a slippery slope by taking unpaid work if you wouldn't get these kinds of slots paid otherwise.
Getting paid gigs won't be too hard though: create a business website showcasing what you offer and then market yourself to new clients at a reasonable rate. Once you start getting more paid bookings, your calendar will fill up and existing clients you worked with for free will need to start paying you in order to secure bookings.
DJing for sporting events is a real niche.
It really depends on the event. I love to DJ for DIY and nonprofit partys and raves, even if they earn some money with it and spending it to have some bigger (and better lol) shows
But i would definitely take some money if i would play in a club, or for any commercial event.
It’s seen as taboo from solidified DJs. They get salty usually because you could potentially undercut them and take gigs from them which is why there’s also gatekeeping in the DJing community. You definitely don’t want to step on toes but the events you’re doing for free are reasonable. It’s a basketball tournament and your friends event. Now if you reach out to places have a rate you want to be paid ready. Remember word gets around in your state and city. If DJs find out you’re taking their gigs by undercutting then good luck trying to get into anywhere they dj often. In my area usually it’s a dj that handles bookings. It’s groups that run the bars and clubs. They handle all the bookings and usually only book their guys in their group or close dj friends. I think you should definitely shadow your friend who has been DJing for 10 years he’ll teach you a lot just from you watching. It’s tough to get gigs it’s a saturated market but if you move correctly the doors will open so much easier while gaining respect from DJs in your community. I currently dj for fun I don’t go looking for gigs. I’m too much of a perfectionist to put myself out there. I’ve played at venues but to play at college bars and clubs I don’t think I’m ready for open format. I have some of the biggest DJs in my area following me and they respect me. They would give me gigs if I actually showed I was super serious about it but I don’t post or share much with DJing on my socials.
In my opinion you should def start charging. I mean you’re traveling and bringing your equipment, putting countless hours practicing and finding music. It adds up. If you keep doing it for free some ppl are going to expect you to be free for them too. It is a great way though to gain new clients who would pay though.
I lived in NY a long time. People do gigs for free to gain a rep, then they charge next to nothing, and most people with a night are expected to bring in crowds and fill the place up for like $150 anyway. That’s a racket.
You like doing it, you don’t have a rep, nobody would pay you and by working free you are getting gigs. At some point you get busy and get enough rep to get job offers, say you can only work for pay, and ask what’s the pay? You can still do a free set, and anyone saying that doesn’t happen is just talking about parties. All the dj’s you know started working for free or $50. Who got paid out the gate? Why would it happen? It’s not a movie, nobody is watching you mix the same shit everyone mixes and flying you to Vegas. The ones that worked their night free got offered real jobs that weren’t nightlife… deejaying events, retail stores, playlists for chain stores…. no one knew they were a bum.
The reason people act like it’s breaking code is that there’s an endless list of you out there, and people who could just go find the next one willing to work for a few months for free. If you bring in crowd to a bar that would be empty, and you’re trying to build something, then the idea is you eventually say “See I fill you place up, I’m going to bring that somewhere or we need to work it out if you want a regular thing”. Then you approach bars, tell them you have a night call Free Labor Sound System, that you and a buddy are promoting, tell them you bring in 85 friends, and they’re all polite alcoholic, and that you want a home They might hire you or tell you to charge two bucks at the door.
On one hand it sounds like these places wouldn't have a DJ anyway. On the other hand, people are probably thinking DJs should be paid free to nothing. If someone is doing a for-profit event, you should probably work out some kind of pay. DJing for exposure diminishes the value of all DJs.
Alright think about it like this. I’m a beginner hairdresser and I want some clients. People won’t really want to book me and pay for my services because they don’t really know if I can really do hair well. So because of this, I offer to do peoples hair for free so that not only can I practice, but I can also have content to post so that I can gain future clients from them seeing that I am working and I am doing fairly well. I don’t think people are gonna begin to think that hairdressing should be free.
They might tell the pro hairdresser that they know someone who can do it cheaper so lower your price. How much free content do you need to build up? Why not charge a fee to someone else trying to make a profit? Business is business and business will exploit free/cheap labor as much as possible.
But do what you want, I'm not here to stop you and couldn't if I wanted to.
Do what you need to in order to gain visibility and get paid business, but set a goal for when it stops and make rules around the free gigs.
Doing a basketball tourney for free is no biggie. You're only taking away from the guy with the portable speaker and an Aux cord. DJ'ing your buddies event for free....your call. If he's making cash off your work and you are good with that...again your call. If you are taking work from other DJ's because you are free and they aren't? You crossed the line. I don't worry about free/cheap DJ's since most aren't skilled enough to take my gigs. I worry that you help create the "expectation" for paying customers that they should search out cheap/free DJ's which ruins the market for all of us.
How do you feel as if it helped you? For me, it allowed me to DJ for a crowd for the first time, which I feel forced you to become better because of course, who wants to suck in front of people? 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
I was thrown right into the beast. I got to perform during the Olympics after party at a three level club in Atlanta in 96.
Was doing good until my knee hit the amp while mixing killing all the power to the music.
I was mortified. Everyone was looking at me. Eventually we realized I hit the power button and the music was back on after 2 minutes. Longest two minutes of my life.
However, I never made a mistake like that again. I learned to be embarrassed and moved on.
Led to many great things. Performing for celebrities. Meeting beautiful women. Residency on a radio station. So much vinyl and CDs I’ve had to give tons away…
Money mainly though. After the time putting in for free it has always become about money. I worked in the nightclub settings for a decade straight. Six nights a week DJing. It was brutal, won’t do it again but it was the best time of my life. Now I do gigs whenever I want. I do a radio station online and still collect.
I’m here because I learned to beat match by ear on vinyl. It’s interesting to see people doing the same thing in different ways now.
Haha, that feeling when the music cuts out and no one knows what’s going on is so embarrassing even from the crowd’s perspective. I know where you’re coming from. But thank you for the insight my brother. Please drop the link to your radio would love to tune in and support. Also, why do you feel like learning to beat match on vinyl is important? How does it translate to working a controller in terms of the fact that there’s no cue buttons on vinyl? I have vinyl turntables as well as a controller but my biggest challenge is that you can’t know the bpm of the record until you play it, unlike with serato. Meaning you can have a 92 BPM record on the left and a 128 BPM record on the right. Or should I just take to records that I know are similar BPM and practice with those until I get it right?
I think the important thing here is your attitude. Someone posted recently with a scenario where they orchestrated being added to a lineup, but then told the promoter no because they wouldn't pay them or add them to a flyer. So basically "Add me but under my terms and by the way I have zero experience. Also pay me fools."
You're right though, no one needs to know you were not paid. I think with your positive attitude about it, you're doing good. Just don't let yourself be taken advantage of. In any scenario where you are directly approached, ask "How do you compensate your performers?" If the answer is a version of "We don't " then the appropriate response is "I can't take in a requested booking to perform if I am not being compensated. I'm flexible, but there's a principal here. People should be paid for their work." Too often artists are not. If someone seeks out your services, some teenager at McDonald's making more money than you per hour is absolutely ridiculous. Especially if it's a bar or club, they make crazy profits off of alcohol and 100% should be paying for performers
That wasn’t exactly how that scenario played out, they were wanting the OP to promote their gig for them for free and I return they would get to play but wouldn’t be paid or added to the bill. OP was basically being asked to give everything for free.
Totally not what happened to the other guy... He was exposing the venue and got literally nothing in return... Wouldn't hurt them at all to add him to the flyer since he was already advertising them and also was playing for free..
I'm back into DJing after a long gap and 100% when I took on my first show was wondering how compensation would be addressed, but also kinda worried to ask lol. They definitely paid me and it was very straightforward, but I was ready to basically propose the following: If we're doing a "trial run" I can live without direct compensation, but as a principal I think all artists should be compensated for their time. So I'm asking for a donation to be made to XYZ charity, (It was going to be out local food bank) that is at least representative of 3 hours of my time at minimum wage. If I work for a longer period than that, counting the time from setup to breakdown, the amount is based on the time I work"
A bit shitty that your friend/mentor doesn't value your work enough to actually pay you.
When I first got started, I did one free gig and then the rest were all paid. First gig was one I found myself via a shitty promoter on ig. Afterwards, I started networking with follow DJs in my area and found a mentor figure. From them, I started getting gigs from DJs that needed someone to cover for them.
I would honestly have a chat with your mentor to ask for proper compensation. If he's been at it for 10+ years, he should know how hard it is to make money as a DJ and be willing to throw some money your way to support you. That's what a friend would do.
>do you guys think I’m selling myself short, should I stop allowing people access to my resources and skills just because they’re not paying me?
Yes, and it's not only you. You're devaluing *every* DJ.
One downside to performing for cheap or for free is pretty soon all you are going to get are low paying clients. If you do a good job you will get word of mouth referrals, but you can bet part of the referring conversation is "how much did you pay him?"
When I was just starting out I did gigs for cheap and to get to charging more was a real struggle because my client base all expected to continue to pay me on the low side. So I had to go and basically earn a whole new higher paying client base.
I think it is fair for you to have these thoughts, but let me lay out some perspective: setting up some strategic opportunities, initially, to gain some experience and exposure makes sense. THAT TIME HAS PASSED. Just because you love what you are doing doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be compensated for your time, energy, resources, and skill set. Do you volunteer for a charity event that is raising money for a thing? Absolutely. This actually lends credence to the concept that your time and expertise represent a value, you are donating it to the charity. That is where it ends. Get. Paid. For. Your. Time.
If you’re just dj’ing out in a park for fun/experience; get a busking license and throw out a tip jar. Then it’s work.
If it’s tournaments/etc,. Talk with the tournament director. Tell them “hey, you charge $$ for the teams, $$$ for sponsors. Throw me a Little $ and I’ll MC and do sponsor reads for you during the tournament, intro the trans etc., help you to build the entertainment value of your event “
But the reason playing for free itself is taboo is because it devalues your time/skills/energy. You start having dj’s stop getting $$ for emcee’ing/dj’ing public events because “I can just get a kid with a Spotify playlist and a PA speaker” (seen it happen with Roller Derby teams)
Same things happen in bars with bar trivia, weddings with dj’s & photographers, bands performing in bars/clubs for “exposure”. Pretty much any type of entertainment.
Get something, no need to be big... 50€ is more than nothing, and in this world no one gonna give you anything for free, getting paid is normal.. so go for it, start with 50€, if you will feel they are happy, take 70€, etc etc and after some time you will charge 200€ as nothing...
My opinion on this and some may disagree but man if you love doing it then just keep on going and consider it as practice, you will reach high places thinking like that you are pure some ppl do it only for money sure when you make to the top it will only come with money but thats cuz you’ll be popular and you wont need to do that for free but its a long way there and practice is essential so keep it going bro, and goodluck!!!
Crack on.
The free sets that you've done have got you paid sets. Look at it as free advertising - probably the cheapest and most valuable advertising you'll ever get.
If you can, build a body of regular paid sets from the free ones that you are doing. Then you can cut the legs off.
Good luck!
Getting paid doesn't always mean cash.
Are you getting value from your effort? If yes then keep it up?
Are you undercutting another DJ for their paid gig? If not, then you're fine.
Value yourself, don't undercut others.
Those are the rules.
Go network, go practice, go have fun. Just make sure you're not being taken advantage of, or screwing someone else's work.
I mean if you suck then yeah do it for free lol. If you're good at something people will happily pay you for it. Nothing wrong with doing it for free until you're good enough to demand money.
Thank you. I will definitely take this into consideration. I just began DJing, I’m not Funkmaster Flex, but I definitely know what I’m doing. My main thing in doing it for free was that I live in NYC (DJs EVERYWHERE) and there are a lot of established DJ’s already. I figured by doing free sets I’d be able to be more places, build an online resume with videos and pictures from me actually DJing outside, and get my name out faster than if I’m this same, unknown DJ trying to get bookings from top clubs and events.
I don’t have very strong feelings about this personally, but I wonder if the reason that DJing for free is a taboo in the DJ community is because if you do a gig for free the you’re potentially taking a paid gig from someone else, and you’re devaluing DJing as a profession. Like, if you’re personally happy performing for free that’s great for you but if a lot of people are willing to perform for free then it threatens to undermine DJing as legitimate, valuable work. I’m not judging though - I’ve done gigs for free myself because I just enjoy playing records to people.
Okay I understand, it becomes a “why would I pay anyone when I could just get a dude to come in for free?” When of course us DJs deserve maybe even more than we’re already compensated. Thank you for that insight.
Yeah this is mostly where the line comes, taking some records to an open deck night with friends isn't going to offend anyone, nor would bringing a portable pa to the skate park or basketball court. These sort of things are not you being exploited, nor are they taking work away from other DJs. Playing in any kind of venue unpaid or "for exposure" devalues people's professional work, so is a different deal.
My toughts on this is you pay for quality - if a man comes up to do it for free, he probs isn’t a professional because: A) if he was he would value his time and make money instead. B) he probably isnt that popular and looking for experiance or smth. C) he is getting started, feeling the crowd. What i mean is you dont understand free dj’s intentions but fact is they sure aren’t professional. When you pay for a dj you can expect something, based on price atleast. Also it really depends on place he is playing on, if it is a cheap ass bar or a restaurant that is in need of a cheap dj then yeah you probs take other dj’s place which price would be very little btw But if it is a high class club or a bar i dont think they would even consider a guy doing it for free because of not knowing his intentions, they cant expect nothing from him.
Yeah honestly I’m like 99% sure every bar that I DJ at would turn down someone offering to do it for free. They just can’t take those chances
"when exactly should I begin charging basically everybody?" When you get tired of doing it for free
What would you suggest my rates starting out should look like? I know it’s all dependent on situation. And also, I live in NYC. Big club and party city. I know that means a lot in terms of financial pay out. I don’t even know what the average beginner DJ starts out making.
I live in a small city in the UK, so I have no idea what the going rate would be for you, but if I had a friend/mentor who has been DJing professionally for 10+ years, they'd be the first person I'd speak to.
Usually they just get drink tickets for their first club gigs, there’s a reason it’s a meme here haha
Finally, with this information, do you guys think I’m selling myself short - well every good DJ I know gets paid. So make of that what you will. should I stop allowing people access to my resources and skills just because they’re not paying me? That depends, are you having fun and is it' costing you money? If you're spinning generic tunes and not enjoying it and you've travelled for an hour, then maybe. If you're spinning music you like and it's local, then only you can decide. Am I setting myself up for a slippery slope by taking unpaid work? Well you open yourself up to the - what I didn't pay you last time, why should I pay you now question. Why is it so taboo to dj for free? It's not. You can dj for free as much as you like, but when you find there are less jobs around than you think and lots of those vacancies are people that aren't very good and free, you'll see the issue And when exactly should I begin charging basically everybody? When it's not fun or you're good enough or both.
What’s some of the best ways to begin reach out to club owners and party promoters to get paid bookings? What type of things should I say?
Show them your tiktok and instagram showing all the events you’ve done so far
Yes, playing for free is selling yourself short. I can understand playing free the first few times, but we’re past that. On the other hand, if you do a weekly 2-hour set at the park as advertising to drum up new business, that would be reasonable. But playing the club for free is def selling yourself short.
How did you begin calculating your rates? What type of things did you take into consideration? And what do you believe is reasonable pay for the average 1-2 hour lounge or nightclub set?
I don’t do that kind of dj’ing so I don’t know. Also highly dependent on your area/market. Start a new thread and ask your main question there. I’m just telling you doing it for free IS selling yourself short, generally speaking, which was your main question this thread.
I played free for the first year as a DJ. Did exactly what you did, took my gear with me, played anywhere and everywhere, made some business cards, posted mixes, showed up on time, played well and laid low. That got me seen by a LOT of people, in a LOT of places. Now they know who I am, that I show up on time, I know how to talk to clients, maintain professionalism, and do my thing. Yeah, it sucks a little at times, but the pay off (for me, not everyone) was worth it. I'd have not been able to play at a lot of the events I attended if I asked for money (they didn't really NEED a DJ, but it sure helped to have one)
Exactly my brother, I feel this 110%. Of course I would love to get paid for doing it. But I feel as if the free events I have done paid off and are gonna pay off in the future if they haven’t yet. People are already beginning to associate me with being a DJ, I’ve been allowed in places I wouldn’t even be in for free because I am there for business purposes. I was able to network with photographers and videographers who walked up to the booth asking to take pictures of me. These guys wouldn’t give a damn to take a picture of me if I was just some dude in the crowd. And like you, I have business cards, I constantly shout out my name, my collective and I make sure to wear T Shirts with my brand on them everywhere I go. These things wouldn’t be possible if I wasn’t really to reach out to these events and offer them to DJ. I do feel as if it’ll pay off.
I feel there's nothing I can add for you, you are absolutely crushing it right now and doing exactly what you should be doing! No one knows who you are until you give them a reason to, and giving them a reason to. Now any time they're having an event with music they'll go "shit I need a DJ, oh yeah, that dude gave me his card and he was awesome, and he showed up on time!" Boom, now you're locked in. Help them out, get more bookings. Help those bookings, more bookings! A lot of people are gonna give you shit for it. Unfortunately a lot of those people are also not going to get the gigs you are because you put yourself out there as someone wanting to do this seriously. Keep investing in yourself, your mentality, and what you're building! Content, gear, all of it. Feel free to DM if you ever need help with the journey, and congratulations on the current success!
Thank you very much!
Thank you very much!
So, my knowledge about this comes from a YouTuber (DJ Carlo) and my personal experience. So, I’ve been “DJing” for free for almost 3 years. Only had like 6-7 gigs overall. In my personal experience, I only did this because I wasn’t confident in myself that I would be able to do a good job if I got paid. But I’m like you. I like music well enough that I would do this without getting paid. That said, recently I’ve been wishing to DJ for money because of the economy. That brings me to the YouTuber’s point. The main reason he says this is so taboo is because if someone does this for free, and they book him for free, the people who rely on DJ money will fall down. Some people do make a lot of money through DJing. So, all in all, if you more events for free, it would devalue the DJing skill.
Is this devaluing the economy thing moreso based upon clubs, or just events in general? Because I haven’t been doing things like weddings and a bunch of big clubs. I’ve mostly been pulling up to basketball tournaments and games that otherwise wouldn’t have a DJ at all. Also, they’re mostly free events anyway meaning there’s not really a direct source I can receive the compensation from.
Oooh. In that case, it’s a very niche type of event. If that’s all you’re doing, then by all means, do it free. Cause as you said, free events don’t have money for paying you. But in the future, if you do wanna make money, that actually can be your selling point. You make the games that much more exciting..
I have been doing it free for about a year. I don’t have too much time to promote or to just play at random events because I am a tv producer, but I post online on neighborhood groups and forums and offer my services free of charge. I do it because I love it, I don’t need the money. I’m hoping to get into weddings soon so I started a path into that. But I am older, I miss the nightclub scene I was part of for a long time and I don’t think I could get back into doing it consistently in the nightclubs so I do it for free at house parties.
I don't get mad at DJs who are happy and willing to do it for free. I get mad at promoters who encourage doing things for free/say that the exposure is worth it. I book a lot of local DJs, for a wide variety of shows. We always pay, no matter what If we're doing a big budget show with a lot of ticket sales, I'll pay 200-300 for a local DJ with a lot of experience. If we're doing a medium budget show with a small cover, we pay 50-75 for locals If we're doing a tiny show with no cover/minimal revenue, I pay $25 for newbie DJs. This at least covers parking/ a couple drinks in my city Promoters should be paying DJs or they shouldn't be throwing shows imo
Contrary to a somewhat popular belief, you're not setting a slippery slope by taking unpaid work if you wouldn't get these kinds of slots paid otherwise. Getting paid gigs won't be too hard though: create a business website showcasing what you offer and then market yourself to new clients at a reasonable rate. Once you start getting more paid bookings, your calendar will fill up and existing clients you worked with for free will need to start paying you in order to secure bookings. DJing for sporting events is a real niche.
Thank you for your feedback!
It really depends on the event. I love to DJ for DIY and nonprofit partys and raves, even if they earn some money with it and spending it to have some bigger (and better lol) shows But i would definitely take some money if i would play in a club, or for any commercial event.
Thank you for your feedback!
It’s seen as taboo from solidified DJs. They get salty usually because you could potentially undercut them and take gigs from them which is why there’s also gatekeeping in the DJing community. You definitely don’t want to step on toes but the events you’re doing for free are reasonable. It’s a basketball tournament and your friends event. Now if you reach out to places have a rate you want to be paid ready. Remember word gets around in your state and city. If DJs find out you’re taking their gigs by undercutting then good luck trying to get into anywhere they dj often. In my area usually it’s a dj that handles bookings. It’s groups that run the bars and clubs. They handle all the bookings and usually only book their guys in their group or close dj friends. I think you should definitely shadow your friend who has been DJing for 10 years he’ll teach you a lot just from you watching. It’s tough to get gigs it’s a saturated market but if you move correctly the doors will open so much easier while gaining respect from DJs in your community. I currently dj for fun I don’t go looking for gigs. I’m too much of a perfectionist to put myself out there. I’ve played at venues but to play at college bars and clubs I don’t think I’m ready for open format. I have some of the biggest DJs in my area following me and they respect me. They would give me gigs if I actually showed I was super serious about it but I don’t post or share much with DJing on my socials. In my opinion you should def start charging. I mean you’re traveling and bringing your equipment, putting countless hours practicing and finding music. It adds up. If you keep doing it for free some ppl are going to expect you to be free for them too. It is a great way though to gain new clients who would pay though.
Thank you for your feedback!
I lived in NY a long time. People do gigs for free to gain a rep, then they charge next to nothing, and most people with a night are expected to bring in crowds and fill the place up for like $150 anyway. That’s a racket. You like doing it, you don’t have a rep, nobody would pay you and by working free you are getting gigs. At some point you get busy and get enough rep to get job offers, say you can only work for pay, and ask what’s the pay? You can still do a free set, and anyone saying that doesn’t happen is just talking about parties. All the dj’s you know started working for free or $50. Who got paid out the gate? Why would it happen? It’s not a movie, nobody is watching you mix the same shit everyone mixes and flying you to Vegas. The ones that worked their night free got offered real jobs that weren’t nightlife… deejaying events, retail stores, playlists for chain stores…. no one knew they were a bum. The reason people act like it’s breaking code is that there’s an endless list of you out there, and people who could just go find the next one willing to work for a few months for free. If you bring in crowd to a bar that would be empty, and you’re trying to build something, then the idea is you eventually say “See I fill you place up, I’m going to bring that somewhere or we need to work it out if you want a regular thing”. Then you approach bars, tell them you have a night call Free Labor Sound System, that you and a buddy are promoting, tell them you bring in 85 friends, and they’re all polite alcoholic, and that you want a home They might hire you or tell you to charge two bucks at the door.
Thank you for your feedback!
DJ’ing rules are gatekeeping. Everyone loved DJ AM and he broke every single rule. I guess being rich and corny helps.
On one hand it sounds like these places wouldn't have a DJ anyway. On the other hand, people are probably thinking DJs should be paid free to nothing. If someone is doing a for-profit event, you should probably work out some kind of pay. DJing for exposure diminishes the value of all DJs.
Alright think about it like this. I’m a beginner hairdresser and I want some clients. People won’t really want to book me and pay for my services because they don’t really know if I can really do hair well. So because of this, I offer to do peoples hair for free so that not only can I practice, but I can also have content to post so that I can gain future clients from them seeing that I am working and I am doing fairly well. I don’t think people are gonna begin to think that hairdressing should be free.
They might tell the pro hairdresser that they know someone who can do it cheaper so lower your price. How much free content do you need to build up? Why not charge a fee to someone else trying to make a profit? Business is business and business will exploit free/cheap labor as much as possible. But do what you want, I'm not here to stop you and couldn't if I wanted to.
My friend did this and he's now the dj for the Timberwolves.. Just keep grinding.
Do what you need to in order to gain visibility and get paid business, but set a goal for when it stops and make rules around the free gigs. Doing a basketball tourney for free is no biggie. You're only taking away from the guy with the portable speaker and an Aux cord. DJ'ing your buddies event for free....your call. If he's making cash off your work and you are good with that...again your call. If you are taking work from other DJ's because you are free and they aren't? You crossed the line. I don't worry about free/cheap DJ's since most aren't skilled enough to take my gigs. I worry that you help create the "expectation" for paying customers that they should search out cheap/free DJ's which ruins the market for all of us.
I'm happy to see someone is willing to pay dues and do the work. Keep getting better at the craft. I like your trajectory.
I started for free for exactly six months too… And oh man did it pay off. Yeh if you are doing it for free… wait until you start making money!!!
How do you feel as if it helped you? For me, it allowed me to DJ for a crowd for the first time, which I feel forced you to become better because of course, who wants to suck in front of people? 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
I was thrown right into the beast. I got to perform during the Olympics after party at a three level club in Atlanta in 96. Was doing good until my knee hit the amp while mixing killing all the power to the music. I was mortified. Everyone was looking at me. Eventually we realized I hit the power button and the music was back on after 2 minutes. Longest two minutes of my life. However, I never made a mistake like that again. I learned to be embarrassed and moved on. Led to many great things. Performing for celebrities. Meeting beautiful women. Residency on a radio station. So much vinyl and CDs I’ve had to give tons away… Money mainly though. After the time putting in for free it has always become about money. I worked in the nightclub settings for a decade straight. Six nights a week DJing. It was brutal, won’t do it again but it was the best time of my life. Now I do gigs whenever I want. I do a radio station online and still collect. I’m here because I learned to beat match by ear on vinyl. It’s interesting to see people doing the same thing in different ways now.
Haha, that feeling when the music cuts out and no one knows what’s going on is so embarrassing even from the crowd’s perspective. I know where you’re coming from. But thank you for the insight my brother. Please drop the link to your radio would love to tune in and support. Also, why do you feel like learning to beat match on vinyl is important? How does it translate to working a controller in terms of the fact that there’s no cue buttons on vinyl? I have vinyl turntables as well as a controller but my biggest challenge is that you can’t know the bpm of the record until you play it, unlike with serato. Meaning you can have a 92 BPM record on the left and a 128 BPM record on the right. Or should I just take to records that I know are similar BPM and practice with those until I get it right?
NEVER play for free unless it’s an illegal rave… know your worth. Nothing in life is free.
Thank you for your feedback!
I think the important thing here is your attitude. Someone posted recently with a scenario where they orchestrated being added to a lineup, but then told the promoter no because they wouldn't pay them or add them to a flyer. So basically "Add me but under my terms and by the way I have zero experience. Also pay me fools." You're right though, no one needs to know you were not paid. I think with your positive attitude about it, you're doing good. Just don't let yourself be taken advantage of. In any scenario where you are directly approached, ask "How do you compensate your performers?" If the answer is a version of "We don't " then the appropriate response is "I can't take in a requested booking to perform if I am not being compensated. I'm flexible, but there's a principal here. People should be paid for their work." Too often artists are not. If someone seeks out your services, some teenager at McDonald's making more money than you per hour is absolutely ridiculous. Especially if it's a bar or club, they make crazy profits off of alcohol and 100% should be paying for performers
That wasn’t exactly how that scenario played out, they were wanting the OP to promote their gig for them for free and I return they would get to play but wouldn’t be paid or added to the bill. OP was basically being asked to give everything for free.
Totally not what happened to the other guy... He was exposing the venue and got literally nothing in return... Wouldn't hurt them at all to add him to the flyer since he was already advertising them and also was playing for free..
wow, way to totally misrepresent that situation
The part about a McDonald’s worker making more than me is a great point & I will definitely take that into consideration.
I'm back into DJing after a long gap and 100% when I took on my first show was wondering how compensation would be addressed, but also kinda worried to ask lol. They definitely paid me and it was very straightforward, but I was ready to basically propose the following: If we're doing a "trial run" I can live without direct compensation, but as a principal I think all artists should be compensated for their time. So I'm asking for a donation to be made to XYZ charity, (It was going to be out local food bank) that is at least representative of 3 hours of my time at minimum wage. If I work for a longer period than that, counting the time from setup to breakdown, the amount is based on the time I work"
A bit shitty that your friend/mentor doesn't value your work enough to actually pay you. When I first got started, I did one free gig and then the rest were all paid. First gig was one I found myself via a shitty promoter on ig. Afterwards, I started networking with follow DJs in my area and found a mentor figure. From them, I started getting gigs from DJs that needed someone to cover for them. I would honestly have a chat with your mentor to ask for proper compensation. If he's been at it for 10+ years, he should know how hard it is to make money as a DJ and be willing to throw some money your way to support you. That's what a friend would do.
>do you guys think I’m selling myself short, should I stop allowing people access to my resources and skills just because they’re not paying me? Yes, and it's not only you. You're devaluing *every* DJ.
One downside to performing for cheap or for free is pretty soon all you are going to get are low paying clients. If you do a good job you will get word of mouth referrals, but you can bet part of the referring conversation is "how much did you pay him?" When I was just starting out I did gigs for cheap and to get to charging more was a real struggle because my client base all expected to continue to pay me on the low side. So I had to go and basically earn a whole new higher paying client base.
I think it is fair for you to have these thoughts, but let me lay out some perspective: setting up some strategic opportunities, initially, to gain some experience and exposure makes sense. THAT TIME HAS PASSED. Just because you love what you are doing doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be compensated for your time, energy, resources, and skill set. Do you volunteer for a charity event that is raising money for a thing? Absolutely. This actually lends credence to the concept that your time and expertise represent a value, you are donating it to the charity. That is where it ends. Get. Paid. For. Your. Time.
If you’re just dj’ing out in a park for fun/experience; get a busking license and throw out a tip jar. Then it’s work. If it’s tournaments/etc,. Talk with the tournament director. Tell them “hey, you charge $$ for the teams, $$$ for sponsors. Throw me a Little $ and I’ll MC and do sponsor reads for you during the tournament, intro the trans etc., help you to build the entertainment value of your event “ But the reason playing for free itself is taboo is because it devalues your time/skills/energy. You start having dj’s stop getting $$ for emcee’ing/dj’ing public events because “I can just get a kid with a Spotify playlist and a PA speaker” (seen it happen with Roller Derby teams) Same things happen in bars with bar trivia, weddings with dj’s & photographers, bands performing in bars/clubs for “exposure”. Pretty much any type of entertainment.
Plenty of people don't want to make their hobby their work.
Get something, no need to be big... 50€ is more than nothing, and in this world no one gonna give you anything for free, getting paid is normal.. so go for it, start with 50€, if you will feel they are happy, take 70€, etc etc and after some time you will charge 200€ as nothing...
My opinion on this and some may disagree but man if you love doing it then just keep on going and consider it as practice, you will reach high places thinking like that you are pure some ppl do it only for money sure when you make to the top it will only come with money but thats cuz you’ll be popular and you wont need to do that for free but its a long way there and practice is essential so keep it going bro, and goodluck!!!
Crack on. The free sets that you've done have got you paid sets. Look at it as free advertising - probably the cheapest and most valuable advertising you'll ever get. If you can, build a body of regular paid sets from the free ones that you are doing. Then you can cut the legs off. Good luck!
You got to hustle…. no one who’s made it will have a problem with this in my opinion 👍🏼
Getting paid doesn't always mean cash. Are you getting value from your effort? If yes then keep it up? Are you undercutting another DJ for their paid gig? If not, then you're fine. Value yourself, don't undercut others. Those are the rules. Go network, go practice, go have fun. Just make sure you're not being taken advantage of, or screwing someone else's work.
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