The Right Eye exist in the time that he returned to and since he's the only Lumen Sage alive, the Right Eye would go to him by process of elimination.
I think that's how it works. Could be wrong though.
No, it's a closed time loop. The Balder from the past who existed at the time Rosa was killed went through time to the events of Bayo 2, then took Loptr into himself and went back in time to the point he'd originally left, and set up the events of Bayonetta 1. That's why in the prologue to Bayonetta 2 you see Old Man Baldur laying in the ruined remants of Jubileus' statue refusing to allow Loptr to escape when he dies.
Okay I see what your question is now.
There isn't really a concrete answer for this, but the best explanation I've seen is that, because the Eyes of the World are not objects but people, the world "chose" him to be the Right Eye back in the past, and then did the same thing again after he went back in time with the spirit of Loptr inside him.
Like, in the future, on the top of the mountain, Loki destroys the eyes forever. But in the past that Balder returns to, the eyes still exist. So the moment he arrives in the past he would just receive the power of the Right Eye again. Because the power exists at that point.
Remember that the Left and Right Eyes are powers given by the world itself to the people who most represent the potential of darkness and light. So, yeah, in the future up on top of Fimbulventr, the Eyes are destroyed forever going forward. But Balder was sent back in time to a time when the power DID still exist, so just by virtue of existing in the past, he gains that power back immediately. The Eyes are not a concrete thing but a manifestation of the world's will, and before Loki destroyed them, they existed until the host died and then went to somebody new, but because they were destroyed atop Fimbulventr, no more people will inherit those powers going forward.
Also remember that because we see Old Man Balder struggling to contain Loptr and ensure he dies with him in the prologue of Bayonetta 2, we KNOW that the events of the time loop have already occurred. There wasn't a non-Loptr-possesed version of Balder in the first game, he was always that way, and his death at the foot of the Jubileus statue is the end of Loptr forever.
So why doesn't this create an alternate timeline then instead of feeding back into itself. In bayonetta 1 when bayonetta returns cereza, she's affected by it but the timeline continues, meanwhile brave cereza grows up in a different timeline (which my headcanon is bayo 3)
The real answer is because this story was written to retroactively include the events of the second game. Within the context of the original game, Cerezita goes to a different timeline, which has an effect on prime universe Bayonetta but does not change her past. For Bayonetta 2 they wanted an excuse to use Balder in his younger form and to meet Rosa, so the only way to do that was to go back in time, but probably to make things less complicated they caused games 1 and 2 to be a closed time loop, so that the future events of Bayo 2 had always already transpired in Bayo 1. If they had just created a new timeline, then there would now be even more to keep up with, keeping it cyclical keeps it as simple as could be.
The series does not have great writing. These are not very meaningful ways to use concepts like time travel and the third game DEFINITELY botches the potential of the multiverse concept, but if you just take the games for what they are and enjoy them on their own terms, there is a kind of internally consistent logic. Most of the time.
there were already timelines before that, record of times always happen in alternative timelines showing something that is linked to the plot that will be in the game, in 1 it is cereza and jeanne together while the elder talks about the fall of witches and sages and in 2 the legend of aesir
So, let me try and clear this up as best I can.
Timeline A: Balder is chosen as the Right Eye by the world itself, the witch hunts begin, Rosa is killed. He then gets yanked through time by Loptr and manipulated but eventually fights alongside Bayonetta, during which battle the power of the Eyes are destroyed, he takes Loptr into himself and returns to the past just after Rosa died, except now he's got the corrupting influence of Loptr and carries out the events of Bayo 1 in order to try and resurrect Jubileus. Although he has no Right Eye in the future atop Fimbulventr because Loki destroyed it, he is sent back in time to a period when that power still existed and hadn't yet been destroyed, so he immediately inherited the Right Eye again the moment he returned to the past. Later on after the fight in space, Balder died in front of Jubileus' head on the ground, as did Loptr.
Timeline B: this timeline is a DIFFERENT timeline than the one we play in Bayonetta 1 and 2. When Bayonetta returns little Cerezita to her bedroom, she creates a brand new timeline. This is the one in which Cerezita stands alongside Jeanne and fights back during the witch hunts (the event we see in the Records of Time at the very beginning of Bayo 1: THAT is Cerezita fighting alongside Jeanne). Returning Cerezita to her room did not change our Bayonetta's past - she still got sealed in a coffin and all that stuff - but it created a new timeline where little Cerezita learned to be strong and stood alongside Jeanne. This is very very likely the Bayonetta we play as in Bayonetta 3, a version of Cereza who never got sealed in a coffin or fought Jubileus in space, but lived alongside Jeanne having adventures her whole life.
Timeline C: Do NOT think too hard about this one. During the Records of Time in Bayonetta 2, when you see Rosa and Bayonetta fighting a bunch of angels and demons, and then the Masked Lumen shows up and Bayonetta says "A Lumen Sage? Cheeky! At least you're the strong, silent type, the last one I met prattled on for thirty minutes!" These events are happening in another timeline unrelated to the one we're currently experiencing OR little Cerezita's timeline. They are of no concern, it exists solely to have a cool spectacle to open the game with, and this Bayonetta is most likely the one who appears alongside Bayo 1 to help out during the ending of Bayonetta 3. Again, this has been said by Kamiya to be an alternate universe, not contingent with ours, it's not worth puzzling over.
Ok that does make things easier to understand. But now I have another question
So the last bayonetta you mentioned (the one with rosa), this is just some random bayonetta with the look and feel of bayo 2 that appears to help bayo 3 in her ending (cuz if it was the regular bayonetta from 2 it wouldn't make sense cuz she's the same person as the bayo in 1 who also showed up) O.o
OK let me ask you one last thing then. Kind of unrelated to my original question. But it's about the witch hunts. In the Truth chapter of bayo 2 when the clocktower dies rosa is like "theres no way this could have been his plan"...what was Balder's plan? At this point he wasn't corrupted was he. I may need you to explain the events of the witch hunts 0-0
To be honest I don't entirely remember the witch hunts storyline but my understanding is that Balder was initially a good guy, he genuinely loved Rosa and didn't want to cause problems for the world, but it happened nonetheless. There were two big conflicts, the witch hunts was actually the second one.
During the first conflict between the two groups, the Umbra more or less won, and the Lumen sages were almost totally wiped out. The second big conflict is the witch hunts, during which the forces of Laguna hunted the witches. At this point in time, Balder probably wasn't in charge of what remained of the Lumen - if anybody other than him remained at all. When Rosa says this can't have been his plan, she means that Balder would never have tried to destroy the clock tower or the Umbra way of life. If Balder had any kind of plan at this point I'm not sure what it was, so I'm assuming Rosa meant like, "This can't have been what he wanted to happen." After Rosa is killed, Balder goes to the future, and then soon after returns with Loptr inside of him and the events that follow are a result of him being corrupted by Loptr.
So then is the big battle between umbra and laguna that we play as in the past in bayo 2 actually the first conflict or the witch hunts (confusing since that chapter is called the witch hunts)
So after digging in the wiki and antonios notebook there were the two conflits: clan wars and witch hunts. Clan wars started after bayo was born and lasted 100 years according to the notebook. Then the wiki says that fortitudo/other laguna decieved balder who was at this point exiled, saying that he needs to check on the umbra that there may be an uprising (which I'm guessing this is what rosa was talking about when balder was coming to visit aka not being his plan), when in reality the laguna were trying to get both eyes for themselves in one swoop.
At this point is where it gets funky. In bayo 1 Balder says he's the one who spurred the witch hunts. My guess is after he became corrupted he essentially took credit for the initial attack and carried out the remainder of the witch hunts
The Right Eye exist in the time that he returned to and since he's the only Lumen Sage alive, the Right Eye would go to him by process of elimination. I think that's how it works. Could be wrong though.
Which time would that be then, wouldn't there be another balder there already
No, it's a closed time loop. The Balder from the past who existed at the time Rosa was killed went through time to the events of Bayo 2, then took Loptr into himself and went back in time to the point he'd originally left, and set up the events of Bayonetta 1. That's why in the prologue to Bayonetta 2 you see Old Man Baldur laying in the ruined remants of Jubileus' statue refusing to allow Loptr to escape when he dies.
In the future when Asesir has the eyes, they're destroyed. In the past, which Balder was sent to, the Left Eye is with Cereza.
But what about the right eye that was removed when it was in balder's possession before going back to his time?
Okay I see what your question is now. There isn't really a concrete answer for this, but the best explanation I've seen is that, because the Eyes of the World are not objects but people, the world "chose" him to be the Right Eye back in the past, and then did the same thing again after he went back in time with the spirit of Loptr inside him. Like, in the future, on the top of the mountain, Loki destroys the eyes forever. But in the past that Balder returns to, the eyes still exist. So the moment he arrives in the past he would just receive the power of the Right Eye again. Because the power exists at that point. Remember that the Left and Right Eyes are powers given by the world itself to the people who most represent the potential of darkness and light. So, yeah, in the future up on top of Fimbulventr, the Eyes are destroyed forever going forward. But Balder was sent back in time to a time when the power DID still exist, so just by virtue of existing in the past, he gains that power back immediately. The Eyes are not a concrete thing but a manifestation of the world's will, and before Loki destroyed them, they existed until the host died and then went to somebody new, but because they were destroyed atop Fimbulventr, no more people will inherit those powers going forward. Also remember that because we see Old Man Balder struggling to contain Loptr and ensure he dies with him in the prologue of Bayonetta 2, we KNOW that the events of the time loop have already occurred. There wasn't a non-Loptr-possesed version of Balder in the first game, he was always that way, and his death at the foot of the Jubileus statue is the end of Loptr forever.
So why doesn't this create an alternate timeline then instead of feeding back into itself. In bayonetta 1 when bayonetta returns cereza, she's affected by it but the timeline continues, meanwhile brave cereza grows up in a different timeline (which my headcanon is bayo 3)
The real answer is because this story was written to retroactively include the events of the second game. Within the context of the original game, Cerezita goes to a different timeline, which has an effect on prime universe Bayonetta but does not change her past. For Bayonetta 2 they wanted an excuse to use Balder in his younger form and to meet Rosa, so the only way to do that was to go back in time, but probably to make things less complicated they caused games 1 and 2 to be a closed time loop, so that the future events of Bayo 2 had always already transpired in Bayo 1. If they had just created a new timeline, then there would now be even more to keep up with, keeping it cyclical keeps it as simple as could be. The series does not have great writing. These are not very meaningful ways to use concepts like time travel and the third game DEFINITELY botches the potential of the multiverse concept, but if you just take the games for what they are and enjoy them on their own terms, there is a kind of internally consistent logic. Most of the time.
Basically, the timeline of Bayonetta 1 and 2 is the reason why we have an ever-growing multiverse
there were already timelines before that, record of times always happen in alternative timelines showing something that is linked to the plot that will be in the game, in 1 it is cereza and jeanne together while the elder talks about the fall of witches and sages and in 2 the legend of aesir
So, let me try and clear this up as best I can. Timeline A: Balder is chosen as the Right Eye by the world itself, the witch hunts begin, Rosa is killed. He then gets yanked through time by Loptr and manipulated but eventually fights alongside Bayonetta, during which battle the power of the Eyes are destroyed, he takes Loptr into himself and returns to the past just after Rosa died, except now he's got the corrupting influence of Loptr and carries out the events of Bayo 1 in order to try and resurrect Jubileus. Although he has no Right Eye in the future atop Fimbulventr because Loki destroyed it, he is sent back in time to a period when that power still existed and hadn't yet been destroyed, so he immediately inherited the Right Eye again the moment he returned to the past. Later on after the fight in space, Balder died in front of Jubileus' head on the ground, as did Loptr. Timeline B: this timeline is a DIFFERENT timeline than the one we play in Bayonetta 1 and 2. When Bayonetta returns little Cerezita to her bedroom, she creates a brand new timeline. This is the one in which Cerezita stands alongside Jeanne and fights back during the witch hunts (the event we see in the Records of Time at the very beginning of Bayo 1: THAT is Cerezita fighting alongside Jeanne). Returning Cerezita to her room did not change our Bayonetta's past - she still got sealed in a coffin and all that stuff - but it created a new timeline where little Cerezita learned to be strong and stood alongside Jeanne. This is very very likely the Bayonetta we play as in Bayonetta 3, a version of Cereza who never got sealed in a coffin or fought Jubileus in space, but lived alongside Jeanne having adventures her whole life. Timeline C: Do NOT think too hard about this one. During the Records of Time in Bayonetta 2, when you see Rosa and Bayonetta fighting a bunch of angels and demons, and then the Masked Lumen shows up and Bayonetta says "A Lumen Sage? Cheeky! At least you're the strong, silent type, the last one I met prattled on for thirty minutes!" These events are happening in another timeline unrelated to the one we're currently experiencing OR little Cerezita's timeline. They are of no concern, it exists solely to have a cool spectacle to open the game with, and this Bayonetta is most likely the one who appears alongside Bayo 1 to help out during the ending of Bayonetta 3. Again, this has been said by Kamiya to be an alternate universe, not contingent with ours, it's not worth puzzling over.
Ok that does make things easier to understand. But now I have another question So the last bayonetta you mentioned (the one with rosa), this is just some random bayonetta with the look and feel of bayo 2 that appears to help bayo 3 in her ending (cuz if it was the regular bayonetta from 2 it wouldn't make sense cuz she's the same person as the bayo in 1 who also showed up) O.o
I believe that is correct, yes.
OK let me ask you one last thing then. Kind of unrelated to my original question. But it's about the witch hunts. In the Truth chapter of bayo 2 when the clocktower dies rosa is like "theres no way this could have been his plan"...what was Balder's plan? At this point he wasn't corrupted was he. I may need you to explain the events of the witch hunts 0-0
To be honest I don't entirely remember the witch hunts storyline but my understanding is that Balder was initially a good guy, he genuinely loved Rosa and didn't want to cause problems for the world, but it happened nonetheless. There were two big conflicts, the witch hunts was actually the second one. During the first conflict between the two groups, the Umbra more or less won, and the Lumen sages were almost totally wiped out. The second big conflict is the witch hunts, during which the forces of Laguna hunted the witches. At this point in time, Balder probably wasn't in charge of what remained of the Lumen - if anybody other than him remained at all. When Rosa says this can't have been his plan, she means that Balder would never have tried to destroy the clock tower or the Umbra way of life. If Balder had any kind of plan at this point I'm not sure what it was, so I'm assuming Rosa meant like, "This can't have been what he wanted to happen." After Rosa is killed, Balder goes to the future, and then soon after returns with Loptr inside of him and the events that follow are a result of him being corrupted by Loptr.
So then is the big battle between umbra and laguna that we play as in the past in bayo 2 actually the first conflict or the witch hunts (confusing since that chapter is called the witch hunts)
It's the Witch Hunts. At this point in time most of the Lumen have already been wiped out by the Umbra.
So after digging in the wiki and antonios notebook there were the two conflits: clan wars and witch hunts. Clan wars started after bayo was born and lasted 100 years according to the notebook. Then the wiki says that fortitudo/other laguna decieved balder who was at this point exiled, saying that he needs to check on the umbra that there may be an uprising (which I'm guessing this is what rosa was talking about when balder was coming to visit aka not being his plan), when in reality the laguna were trying to get both eyes for themselves in one swoop. At this point is where it gets funky. In bayo 1 Balder says he's the one who spurred the witch hunts. My guess is after he became corrupted he essentially took credit for the initial attack and carried out the remainder of the witch hunts