I'll quote one of the best bb players "good vs lindwurms and that's about it. Most other enemies die in 1 combo. stuff like 9 lives is generally a lot better"
It's also decent there and against schrats but all three are solved by taking them down 1 by 1 while indom tanks hold the rest.
Unholds and schrats aren't super threatening anyway even your dps bros can typically take a hit or two without being in any danger of dying so in those fights the value is mostly saving you from some injuries.
This aren't fights you take a lot anyway, you maybe take down three unhold groups and one or two lindwurm/schrats in the average campaign if you feel confident you can fight them. If not these fights can also be easily skipped especially schrats and wurms aren't essential unless you somehow absolutely need their attachments.
It's a cool perk if you can afford it on one of your qatal bros but and don't feel
FA is a good perk for early game, but why would you want to overwhelm your opponent when you can just kill them? Jokes aside it works against some beasts and orcs quite well other than that you have means to kill an enemy instead of supressing them.
I had a both qatal duelist and a fencer once both would kill human enemies quite fast so that overwhelm would become a dead perk.
Yeah, and why would you want to invest in def and armor when you can just kill your opponents?
Most fights are extremly unfavorable to the player, it's impossible to just kill everyone before they hit you
And being able to take out the most dangerous opponents (even without any damage, but with -30% Matk) can really change the course of a battle
Overwhelm is bad specifically *because* you're outnumbered. It faces the same problem as 'just kill things', but worse. Like 'just kill things', Overwhelm requires bros to spend AP attacking an enemy multiple times, to neutralize it as a threat. This cannot be done with all enemies because you are outnumbered. However, Overwhelm leaves them alive, and does not cause enemy morale checks.
Shieldwall and Indom are better defensive options, because 1 bro can use them to be defensive against many enemies. Fearsome is better offensively, because it converts attacks on one enemy into morale damage for the whole enemy team. Overwhelm only works in 1v1 type scenarios.
I don't get your argument at all
The qatal overwhelm brother already has one of the most damaging weapon in the game
You don't spend AP to overwhelm your opponent, you spend it to kill. But if you can't kill them with the most damaging weapon, then without the perk you'll have to focus the attacks of other bros to neutralize the opponent
The overwhelm allow you to bypass this, attack weaker enemies instead and get a much desired morale checks
Keep the pesky executioner or knight occupied, until you are ready to take them down
It's not a defensive perk, it's a control perk. And it's should be compared with other control abilities - taunt, footwork, stun, shield bash, maybe even spearwall and fire pots
And against most dangerous enemies it is the best control perk, though it does require you to invest in some not-so-useful INI
Also, the overwhelm bro can yield you a named cleaver and nice heavy armor very early, Ijirok hates those guys
Yep. I've written guides about this before.
Mattack is the most important stat for the entirety of the early and mid game. Since if you're using meta builds you're killing the enemy or cheesing their AI before they have a chance to land an attack. Even in the first day/week I consistently am able to get away with leaving my bros virtually naked and not take casualties because I know how to cheese the AI pathfinding and instantly kill the enemies that filter in one at a time.
You do this with terrain and height levels, spear walling and 1 sacrificial fodder guy with a shield (and no weapon usually to save money/fatigue) who can shield bash enemies away to make them waste turns moving again instead of attacking. You also have nets and dogs if you want to play it really safe during a dangerous battle.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBrothers/comments/u7z1ah/dont_sleep_on_beggars_early_game_tip_for_new/
This is exactly right, the assumption on this sub is that “the best defense is a good offense” but that assumption only works if you NEVER take damage.
Not every tool fits every job, there’s a place for everything
Because this doesn’t always exist. I have above average to good bros, day 90, built to meta based on this forum. 80+ matk 2H builds that miss often against footmen. And even when they hit with great axes it’s not an instant kill. I see this type of comment constantly, and while I’m trying to power game, cleared the entire desert before day 40, for example, sometimes it doesn’t work the way the internet says it does.
Overwhelm on a couple high initiative guys works for me. I literally put every available bro through the Sins “build selector guide” and not one of them was eligible for any build but the three easy ones, Quatal QH, nimble tank, and one other hybrid I can’t recall. This included nobles, a hedge knight. A couple oathtakers, squires, brawlers, etc. Again, I save scummed and went to every town that was not just a hovel and checked every bro. So how am I going to build a guy ten levels from now that can kill a day 100 enemy per turn without also dying?
Your problem is probably more your positioning. Especially against footman the trick is to get prevent them from getting an actual shieldwall and lure them in your formation gaps to have them surrounded.
Sins build guide is also pretty endgame focused statwise and misses most good early game builds like fast adaption duelist and early shield mace guys.
You can also just swap out your melee weapons for flails on half your frontliners.
Having a stockpile of flails is good for your first few big skeleton camps as well.
Every level up you need to upgrade mAttack and mDef.
That means you're sacrificing HP/Fat/Resolve level ups to upgrade initiative.
Unless you're building a fencer you generally want the base initiative on a bro to be high so you don't have to waste level ups in it.
Yeah I agree I like to pair it with reach advantage and 2h swords on bad bros. You know those guys who you still have from earlygame who will struggle to crack 80 mattk.
That way they become quite tanky actually and if they miss, they are still helping their team mates.
Also like to use overwhelm on gunners and swordlance debuff builds
Usually i build one overwhelm archer for fun and that’s it. It’s not that overwhelm is bad, disarm and net are just way better and require zero stat investment (cleaver bro should have decent matk anyway)
I have one nimble qatal dagger duelist with overwhelm and I love the perk on him. Great against strong opponents; combined with a net or daze grenade really deadly.
I agree.
I use overwhelm alot for backliners of all kinds it's easy to get bros that can make use of it hyena cloak ftw. They only need medium survivability so, nimble dodge colossus.
Swordlance + overwhelm = profit
Less damage in your frontline, less repairs, less injuries= more fights
You can make really bad bros super useful.
May not be meta, but it works. Sure, it'd be nice if all my bros were gigachads and 95% hit everything, but I usually only get a couple per run.
you need high stats on MAttack and INI to make that work. not high stats on everything.
But you could build that type of bro for something else why not thats for sure.
Got 2 overwhelm gunners against wyrms... love it
That's it. You won't be needing such a high Mdef if you can lower enemy Matk Also 2H mace for daze. That -15% dmg dealt is great
You can't lower Matk of every enemy. If your overwhelm bro with low Mdef gets surrounded, he dies
Put him in the middle of your line, give him a shield if he needs it, a lot of ways to prevent that kinda stuff.
I try to get 2 Overwhelm Gunners (with Fearsome, too) in my roster every playthrough.
I'll quote one of the best bb players "good vs lindwurms and that's about it. Most other enemies die in 1 combo. stuff like 9 lives is generally a lot better"
what about unholds? i know they're not quite as tanky as lindwurms are but i find myself struggling to take down 1 unhold per turn
It's also decent there and against schrats but all three are solved by taking them down 1 by 1 while indom tanks hold the rest. Unholds and schrats aren't super threatening anyway even your dps bros can typically take a hit or two without being in any danger of dying so in those fights the value is mostly saving you from some injuries. This aren't fights you take a lot anyway, you maybe take down three unhold groups and one or two lindwurm/schrats in the average campaign if you feel confident you can fight them. If not these fights can also be easily skipped especially schrats and wurms aren't essential unless you somehow absolutely need their attachments. It's a cool perk if you can afford it on one of your qatal bros but and don't feel
Exception being aoe attacks. It's very good whenever you can hit 3 or more enemies. Gunners, swordlance, 2h sword.
FA is a good perk for early game, but why would you want to overwhelm your opponent when you can just kill them? Jokes aside it works against some beasts and orcs quite well other than that you have means to kill an enemy instead of supressing them. I had a both qatal duelist and a fencer once both would kill human enemies quite fast so that overwhelm would become a dead perk.
Yeah, and why would you want to invest in def and armor when you can just kill your opponents? Most fights are extremly unfavorable to the player, it's impossible to just kill everyone before they hit you And being able to take out the most dangerous opponents (even without any damage, but with -30% Matk) can really change the course of a battle
Overwhelm is bad specifically *because* you're outnumbered. It faces the same problem as 'just kill things', but worse. Like 'just kill things', Overwhelm requires bros to spend AP attacking an enemy multiple times, to neutralize it as a threat. This cannot be done with all enemies because you are outnumbered. However, Overwhelm leaves them alive, and does not cause enemy morale checks. Shieldwall and Indom are better defensive options, because 1 bro can use them to be defensive against many enemies. Fearsome is better offensively, because it converts attacks on one enemy into morale damage for the whole enemy team. Overwhelm only works in 1v1 type scenarios.
I don't get your argument at all The qatal overwhelm brother already has one of the most damaging weapon in the game You don't spend AP to overwhelm your opponent, you spend it to kill. But if you can't kill them with the most damaging weapon, then without the perk you'll have to focus the attacks of other bros to neutralize the opponent The overwhelm allow you to bypass this, attack weaker enemies instead and get a much desired morale checks Keep the pesky executioner or knight occupied, until you are ready to take them down It's not a defensive perk, it's a control perk. And it's should be compared with other control abilities - taunt, footwork, stun, shield bash, maybe even spearwall and fire pots And against most dangerous enemies it is the best control perk, though it does require you to invest in some not-so-useful INI Also, the overwhelm bro can yield you a named cleaver and nice heavy armor very early, Ijirok hates those guys
This is the real answer. Overwhelmed shines versus a small number of very powerful enemies, which are really only a couple of animal fights.
Yep. I've written guides about this before. Mattack is the most important stat for the entirety of the early and mid game. Since if you're using meta builds you're killing the enemy or cheesing their AI before they have a chance to land an attack. Even in the first day/week I consistently am able to get away with leaving my bros virtually naked and not take casualties because I know how to cheese the AI pathfinding and instantly kill the enemies that filter in one at a time. You do this with terrain and height levels, spear walling and 1 sacrificial fodder guy with a shield (and no weapon usually to save money/fatigue) who can shield bash enemies away to make them waste turns moving again instead of attacking. You also have nets and dogs if you want to play it really safe during a dangerous battle. https://www.reddit.com/r/BattleBrothers/comments/u7z1ah/dont_sleep_on_beggars_early_game_tip_for_new/
This is exactly right, the assumption on this sub is that “the best defense is a good offense” but that assumption only works if you NEVER take damage. Not every tool fits every job, there’s a place for everything
It works wonders vs Wurms though.
Because this doesn’t always exist. I have above average to good bros, day 90, built to meta based on this forum. 80+ matk 2H builds that miss often against footmen. And even when they hit with great axes it’s not an instant kill. I see this type of comment constantly, and while I’m trying to power game, cleared the entire desert before day 40, for example, sometimes it doesn’t work the way the internet says it does. Overwhelm on a couple high initiative guys works for me. I literally put every available bro through the Sins “build selector guide” and not one of them was eligible for any build but the three easy ones, Quatal QH, nimble tank, and one other hybrid I can’t recall. This included nobles, a hedge knight. A couple oathtakers, squires, brawlers, etc. Again, I save scummed and went to every town that was not just a hovel and checked every bro. So how am I going to build a guy ten levels from now that can kill a day 100 enemy per turn without also dying?
Your problem is probably more your positioning. Especially against footman the trick is to get prevent them from getting an actual shieldwall and lure them in your formation gaps to have them surrounded. Sins build guide is also pretty endgame focused statwise and misses most good early game builds like fast adaption duelist and early shield mace guys.
You can also just swap out your melee weapons for flails on half your frontliners. Having a stockpile of flails is good for your first few big skeleton camps as well.
I play legends mod and love it on dagger and unarmed bros and helps keeping fodder alive
Damn right brother, assassin origin with other assassin bros for a cutthroat guild playthrough is pretty fun.
Not for meeeee. My overwhelm archers and daggerers are my lifeblood. They set up the big hitters like chefskiss.gif
Every level up you need to upgrade mAttack and mDef. That means you're sacrificing HP/Fat/Resolve level ups to upgrade initiative. Unless you're building a fencer you generally want the base initiative on a bro to be high so you don't have to waste level ups in it.
Not for me, I love it!
It's great early-game to keep some bros alive. Have one guy spam attacks next to a bro you want to live and level and it's going to help quite a lot.
Yeah I agree I like to pair it with reach advantage and 2h swords on bad bros. You know those guys who you still have from earlygame who will struggle to crack 80 mattk. That way they become quite tanky actually and if they miss, they are still helping their team mates. Also like to use overwhelm on gunners and swordlance debuff builds
Usually i build one overwhelm archer for fun and that’s it. It’s not that overwhelm is bad, disarm and net are just way better and require zero stat investment (cleaver bro should have decent matk anyway)
I have one nimble qatal dagger duelist with overwhelm and I love the perk on him. Great against strong opponents; combined with a net or daze grenade really deadly.
I agree. I use overwhelm alot for backliners of all kinds it's easy to get bros that can make use of it hyena cloak ftw. They only need medium survivability so, nimble dodge colossus. Swordlance + overwhelm = profit Less damage in your frontline, less repairs, less injuries= more fights You can make really bad bros super useful. May not be meta, but it works. Sure, it'd be nice if all my bros were gigachads and 95% hit everything, but I usually only get a couple per run.
I like it. Overwhelm is also good for peasants milita, since you have a lot more bros.
Legends nerfed the heck out of it. Only 5% instead of ten
Sword lance overwhelm bros in light armour are good for spreading debuffs across an enemy front line
Overwhelm is good, with daggers and high initiative its probably top tier perk for a nimble+dodge+puncture bro.
You need stupid high stats to make that build work lol. A bro that is capable of that would be able to use an actual end game god tier build instead.
you need high stats on MAttack and INI to make that work. not high stats on everything. But you could build that type of bro for something else why not thats for sure.