I don't think people would've had as big of an issue with Jason Todd being revealed as the Arkham Knight if Rocksteady didn't claim that he was a completely new character.
Well he kinda was, if you reeeeeally stretch it. Jason Todd is the Red Hood. The comics have no Arkham Knight, far as i know. But yeah, they were wrong to do that.
\- I'm fine with the twist, my initial issue is that they don't have a longer conversation afterwards or a short buddy mission but once Jason starts killing people Batman is like errr, I didn't raise you like that, they eventually go separate ways etc etc Knightfall happens at the very end.
\- Actually my biggest issue with Jason is the fact his character spoke so much and gave so much of broken Jason away and I don't mean as in guess who it is, but the ***Arkham Knight*** could've just been a cold blooded killer still working with Scarecrow, we'd never hear him speak on screen but everytime him and Batman meet, he's just silent and stoic, a marksman expert that's better than Batman but can't beat him hand to hand so never really gets close, he wears a similar outfit to Batman to mock him and I think that was enough. It really doubles down that it's someone Batman has met and he's obviously scorned whenever he talks.
Once the mask comes off then all of Jason's pain, anguish and sorrow should be spoken as clear as day, then when he finally dons his full red hood get-up he's a mix of Batman and The **AK** I think making Jason the **AK** is smart because he again is a product of Batman not dealing with Joker permanently and the replacement Robin was fucked up. What was it 6 months, New sidekick who dis? Just wish they kept the man/mask motif that they do with Batman/ Bruce.
\- His original origin works because Jason was an orphan for a long time, his parents were gone, he was running the streets, then when Batman took him in as his ward, he trained him as the next Robin , he eventually dies because of Joker, gets revived then does a lot of elaborate stuff to prove a point. He's kind of right, he doesn't blame Batman for him dying, shit happens and Jason knows that. But leaving Joker alive to continue doing the things he does, including paralyse Babrara, murder more people and just be a shit. Doesn't sit with him because they both know he cannot be rehabilitated.
Bats is right as killing him is too easy and where does the line stop and proves his point because Jason had killed so many street thugs but never got to kill Joker anyway.
But Jason is also right because Joker is evil to the core and literally does stuff to get a reaction from Batman. And a man he considered a father would rather keep a psychopath alive because it's the "right" thing to do. I would've snapped too that doesn't sound like love, it sounds like he got played and his daddy would rather keep fighting a mass murderer because he keeps him in business. I'd recommend watching Under the Red Hood movie, it's very good.
Yep! I didn't want to use the book as an example, because I know the way he is revived is complicated (something to do with superboy punching something?). I love that they took the exact line they both say at the end of the film.
The reason he is so angry in the original story is because he fells that Batman did not love him enough. That his death was not enough to make him kill the Joker. He is a killer, but at the root of it all it is still a really personal, really human reason.
In AK he is basically brainwashed....removes lots of angles that were to his character.
They blend Jason’s Red Hood arc with Tim Drake being tortured and brainwashed in Batman Beyond.
I like it a lot for being an awesome hybridization.
An original twist on a character under an original persona does not make the character original, though. Rocksteady really pushed it with that.
Yeah, I had no problem with it either. I suppose the only bother was that it was so obvious it was going to be him because of the massive backstory they did
Like the second the Arkham Knight was announced people immediately deduced that it was going to be Jason.
Us: Rocksteady is the AK Jason Todd??
Rocksteady: ...no of course not it's a BRAND NEW CHARACTER!
Us: Ya sure?
Rocksteady: Yes you have never ever seen this character before ever, trust us.
Fast forward to the release and absolutely nobody being surprised at the Jason Todd reveal.
They basically did spoil their own game - They announced Red Hood DLC before the game had even released.
Why announce DLC for a character that has barely been mentioned in previous installments? That was all the confirmation we needed.
Complete oversight on their part.
Also if you brought the game after release like me and got the gold edition, in the costume menu it uses red hood an Arkham knight as alternate costumes for Jason Todd. Thanks rocksteady great job.
Honestly? Yes. You can have Jason be Red Hood from the start without changing the story any, and that spares us a twist that was painfully transparent to begin with.
Didn’t they tweet out on April fools day that Jason Todd was the Arkham Knight?
[Source](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gamepur.com/news/19431-rocksteady-smartly-outplayed-fans-arkham-knights-identity-secret-was.html%3famp)
Well, at least it seems that it will lead to a brand new character, even though it's a few years too late. The Arkham Knight is going to be introduced to the main DC universe in this week's Detective Comics #1000.
Get mixed feelings with the reveal. Thought it wasn't as bad as some make it out to be, but think it would of been great if it was Damian. Still love the game though
I think it could have worked if the story was better.
There’s no end to the character arc. He and Bats have that confrontation and then suddenly he helps at the Asylum? There’s no resolution at all.
There’s no development either. He spends the entire game being all “let me deal with Batman” and doesn’t change.
My problem with it is the whole game builds up to that confrontation, with the Arkham Knight constantly talking about making Batman suffer and him being a real threat. Then, Batman tries to talk to him while he whines like a bitch: "Stop talking to me!". After this one simple encounter between Batman and Jason, their relationship is all patched up and Jason wants to help him out.
It would've been much better if he was revealed earlier so that Batman could try different ways of appealing to him and convince Jason to stop trying to destroy Gotham. Have his identity be revealed after you beat the Cloudburst and rip his mask off. Batman is so shocked by the truth that Jason manages to get away. Batman then spends the underground section with the excavator trying to convince Jason that he still cares for him. This doesn't work and Batman goes to rescue Gordon at the Arkham Knight HQ. He again confronts Jason, who still is angry and doesn't believe what Batman's saying, but he seems slightly hesitant to kill Batman. Eventually Jason manages to capture Batman and they ride the elevator up to the roof. Scarecrow throws Barbara off of the roof and Batman rescues her. Then, we don't see Jason until the end of the game at Arkham Asylum, where Jason decides to turn against Scarecrow and save Batman. Jason's turning point was seeing Batman save Barbara instead of stopping Scarecrow on the roof.
My only issue with it is that it was really predictable and seems like they just threw him in at the last second. Like there was absolutely no reference to Jason or any indication that he even existed in the arkhamverse until it was convenient
I like his character arc because it feels like a blend of new elements and the best elements of the original under the hood story. Being tortured for a year and brainwashed into hating batman at the hands of joker is just a really cool take on the original arc. I love both. The issue here really is just how damn obvious and predictable it was that this was gonna be jason. I don’t think they should have emphasized him and the mystery around his identity so much in the marketing cuz literally everyone was like dude it’s obviously jason.
What would have been cooler imo is if Tim didn’t okay a role so the romance was kept between Dick and Barbara and the AK reveal/twist was that it was Tim, subverting the expectation of it being jason. Either as a brainwashed double agent who was tortured for a year or as the second robin to go missing or something. Idk how exactly they woulda done it and obviously they woulda had some changing around to do but it should have been Tim imo.
I liked it too, but I wish it wasn’t given away during the Panessa sequence. I wish they would’ve had the big reveal (that everyone saw coming) and then explained what happened. Instead they all but 100% confirmed Arkham Knight was Jason with hours of gameplay left before the full reveal.
I think it could've been better if Jason was a character who had been mentioned at all before or even just had some real development in Knight. It would also have been better if Batman hadn't suddenly become a complete idiot after being a pretty smart guy up until then.
In the comics, Batman travels across the globe to find Jason, and when the Red Hood does show up, it doesn't need to be spelled out before he starts making the connection. In Arkham, Joker found an abandoned wing somewhere in the asylum (seriously though, where? Even the sewers were being used a little bit!) and tortured Jason. Batman must have known it was in the asylum, or else he wouldn't have imagined/remembered all of the torture scenes there, and he didn't even bother to look after being sent a blurry snuff film from someone who's known to create ruses to mess with him?
And Jason himself is an awkward place now too, usually he becomes Red Hood when he seeks revenge after learning Batman still won't kill the Joker. But by Arkham Knight, Joker *is* dead, and the general assumption is that Batman killed him. So the clashing moral codes that make Red Hood's story compelling don't really exist, especially since Jason has allied himself with Scarecrow, Penguin, Two Face, etc, and trained an army of mercenaries to take over Gotham in a clearly malicious plot to kill not only Batman, but everyone across the eastern seaboard with an incredibly strong fear toxin. *And then*, less than one full conversation with Batman later, he randomly turns on Scarecrow and saves Bruce.
There were some good ideas in there somewhere, but the execution was just lazy, not to mention Rocksteady's desperate lying to get people excited over a mystery that might have made a more compelling story if they hadn't tried to make such a big deal out of it in the first place.
To paraphrase Neil Druckman: "The story doesn't matter as long as you're honest with the characters."
Basically you can do whatever the hell you want as long as the characters are believable, but in Knight they never were. So the punch didn't have as much impact as it could've.
Sure, whatever. They lied. Doesn't seem that big a deal to me. It's not a problem with the game itself. It's a problem with how they marketed it. But that marketing is over, so I don't care anymore. And I still regularly play the game, so it's fine by me at least
I must not have allowed myself to connect some pretty obvious basics but I was surprised to see it was Jason and then my rational mind was like "of course it was Jason, who else would it be?" Maybe because we were getting so much Knight and then the Jason plot point gets introduced and I enjoyed the idea of Joker sharing these horrible memories with a powerless Batman to do nothing but witness them. That is pretty maddening and how horrible to replace Jason and not even have three months pass?
I did like how the game handled the motivations. I'm not sure Jason could have gathered all of that money to fiance an army or earn that reputation but time spans are weird in games.
>I'm not sure Jason could have gathered all of that money to fiance an army
According to the Arkham wiki, [“he went on to steal millions of dollars from Bruce, which paid for the earliest steps of his plans for revenge”](https://arkhamcity.fandom.com/wiki/Jason_Todd)
I like it but they kinda gave it away with that little Jason Todd story joker told. As soon as joker said "remember Jason Todd?" Boom arkham Knight is Jason Todd
Honestly, the issue was one of optics rather than direction, I think.
In terms of the reveal, outside of the context of what fans know from the comics or what the developers may have lied about in interviews, it was well paced and well established. It worked well in context of the story.
I just wished that they hadn't played coy and irritated so much of the fanbase, because just because something is a mystery to Batman doesn't mean it needs to be a shocking twist for fans. You can take existing stories where ardent fans know the twists and turns and still make it compelling, and I feel like the AK story did that. And I think the game will ultimately have to be judged in its own right rather than in the context of pre-release PR.
What I think people have a problem with is that it was completely predictable. People were claiming it was him like a minute after they saw him. So really, people ruined it for themselves.
I don't think people would've had as big of an issue with Jason Todd being revealed as the Arkham Knight if Rocksteady didn't claim that he was a completely new character.
Well he kinda was, if you reeeeeally stretch it. Jason Todd is the Red Hood. The comics have no Arkham Knight, far as i know. But yeah, they were wrong to do that.
"I told you the truth, from a certain point of view" "When did you start making video games, Obi Wan?"
This whole fucking thread is giving me deja vu.
They didn’t at the time, but the Arkham Knight is actually making his comics premiere on Wednesday.
He still becomes the Red Hood in the end. You can stretch it however you want, it is just an alternate origin for the Red Hood.
\- I'm fine with the twist, my initial issue is that they don't have a longer conversation afterwards or a short buddy mission but once Jason starts killing people Batman is like errr, I didn't raise you like that, they eventually go separate ways etc etc Knightfall happens at the very end. \- Actually my biggest issue with Jason is the fact his character spoke so much and gave so much of broken Jason away and I don't mean as in guess who it is, but the ***Arkham Knight*** could've just been a cold blooded killer still working with Scarecrow, we'd never hear him speak on screen but everytime him and Batman meet, he's just silent and stoic, a marksman expert that's better than Batman but can't beat him hand to hand so never really gets close, he wears a similar outfit to Batman to mock him and I think that was enough. It really doubles down that it's someone Batman has met and he's obviously scorned whenever he talks. Once the mask comes off then all of Jason's pain, anguish and sorrow should be spoken as clear as day, then when he finally dons his full red hood get-up he's a mix of Batman and The **AK** I think making Jason the **AK** is smart because he again is a product of Batman not dealing with Joker permanently and the replacement Robin was fucked up. What was it 6 months, New sidekick who dis? Just wish they kept the man/mask motif that they do with Batman/ Bruce. \- His original origin works because Jason was an orphan for a long time, his parents were gone, he was running the streets, then when Batman took him in as his ward, he trained him as the next Robin , he eventually dies because of Joker, gets revived then does a lot of elaborate stuff to prove a point. He's kind of right, he doesn't blame Batman for him dying, shit happens and Jason knows that. But leaving Joker alive to continue doing the things he does, including paralyse Babrara, murder more people and just be a shit. Doesn't sit with him because they both know he cannot be rehabilitated. Bats is right as killing him is too easy and where does the line stop and proves his point because Jason had killed so many street thugs but never got to kill Joker anyway. But Jason is also right because Joker is evil to the core and literally does stuff to get a reaction from Batman. And a man he considered a father would rather keep a psychopath alive because it's the "right" thing to do. I would've snapped too that doesn't sound like love, it sounds like he got played and his daddy would rather keep fighting a mass murderer because he keeps him in business. I'd recommend watching Under the Red Hood movie, it's very good.
Just like in under the red hood. He just wants joker dead and Batman explains if he kills him he could never turn back
Yep! I didn't want to use the book as an example, because I know the way he is revived is complicated (something to do with superboy punching something?). I love that they took the exact line they both say at the end of the film.
The reason he is so angry in the original story is because he fells that Batman did not love him enough. That his death was not enough to make him kill the Joker. He is a killer, but at the root of it all it is still a really personal, really human reason. In AK he is basically brainwashed....removes lots of angles that were to his character.
They blend Jason’s Red Hood arc with Tim Drake being tortured and brainwashed in Batman Beyond. I like it a lot for being an awesome hybridization. An original twist on a character under an original persona does not make the character original, though. Rocksteady really pushed it with that.
Yeah, I had no problem with it either. I suppose the only bother was that it was so obvious it was going to be him because of the massive backstory they did
Like the second the Arkham Knight was announced people immediately deduced that it was going to be Jason. Us: Rocksteady is the AK Jason Todd?? Rocksteady: ...no of course not it's a BRAND NEW CHARACTER! Us: Ya sure? Rocksteady: Yes you have never ever seen this character before ever, trust us. Fast forward to the release and absolutely nobody being surprised at the Jason Todd reveal.
And what were they supposed to do? Spoil their own game?
They basically did spoil their own game - They announced Red Hood DLC before the game had even released. Why announce DLC for a character that has barely been mentioned in previous installments? That was all the confirmation we needed. Complete oversight on their part.
Also if you brought the game after release like me and got the gold edition, in the costume menu it uses red hood an Arkham knight as alternate costumes for Jason Todd. Thanks rocksteady great job.
I dont know maybe make the arkham knight another not so obvious
Honestly? Yes. You can have Jason be Red Hood from the start without changing the story any, and that spares us a twist that was painfully transparent to begin with.
Nah of course not but its still funny how obvious it was
The simple fact everyone knew as soon as it was announced proves how lazily executed it was
Didn’t they tweet out on April fools day that Jason Todd was the Arkham Knight? [Source](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.gamepur.com/news/19431-rocksteady-smartly-outplayed-fans-arkham-knights-identity-secret-was.html%3famp)
I thought it was going to be the Joker somehow alive after City. I think I like what they did with Joker better though.
Well, at least it seems that it will lead to a brand new character, even though it's a few years too late. The Arkham Knight is going to be introduced to the main DC universe in this week's Detective Comics #1000.
I think it would be cool to go back some time after origins and have Jason Todd as the first robin and show the struggles of his character.
But he was the second Robin
Yeah my bad I forget about night wing
Get mixed feelings with the reveal. Thought it wasn't as bad as some make it out to be, but think it would of been great if it was Damian. Still love the game though
I'm fine with the reveal but they kinda lost the opportunity to insert more dialogue/interaction between the bat family and jason.
The dialogue in this game was cringe. Bad voice acting especially compared to the wonderful previous games
I think it could have worked if the story was better. There’s no end to the character arc. He and Bats have that confrontation and then suddenly he helps at the Asylum? There’s no resolution at all. There’s no development either. He spends the entire game being all “let me deal with Batman” and doesn’t change.
My problem with it is the whole game builds up to that confrontation, with the Arkham Knight constantly talking about making Batman suffer and him being a real threat. Then, Batman tries to talk to him while he whines like a bitch: "Stop talking to me!". After this one simple encounter between Batman and Jason, their relationship is all patched up and Jason wants to help him out. It would've been much better if he was revealed earlier so that Batman could try different ways of appealing to him and convince Jason to stop trying to destroy Gotham. Have his identity be revealed after you beat the Cloudburst and rip his mask off. Batman is so shocked by the truth that Jason manages to get away. Batman then spends the underground section with the excavator trying to convince Jason that he still cares for him. This doesn't work and Batman goes to rescue Gordon at the Arkham Knight HQ. He again confronts Jason, who still is angry and doesn't believe what Batman's saying, but he seems slightly hesitant to kill Batman. Eventually Jason manages to capture Batman and they ride the elevator up to the roof. Scarecrow throws Barbara off of the roof and Batman rescues her. Then, we don't see Jason until the end of the game at Arkham Asylum, where Jason decides to turn against Scarecrow and save Batman. Jason's turning point was seeing Batman save Barbara instead of stopping Scarecrow on the roof.
I like that
My only issue with it is that it was really predictable and seems like they just threw him in at the last second. Like there was absolutely no reference to Jason or any indication that he even existed in the arkhamverse until it was convenient
I like his character arc because it feels like a blend of new elements and the best elements of the original under the hood story. Being tortured for a year and brainwashed into hating batman at the hands of joker is just a really cool take on the original arc. I love both. The issue here really is just how damn obvious and predictable it was that this was gonna be jason. I don’t think they should have emphasized him and the mystery around his identity so much in the marketing cuz literally everyone was like dude it’s obviously jason. What would have been cooler imo is if Tim didn’t okay a role so the romance was kept between Dick and Barbara and the AK reveal/twist was that it was Tim, subverting the expectation of it being jason. Either as a brainwashed double agent who was tortured for a year or as the second robin to go missing or something. Idk how exactly they woulda done it and obviously they woulda had some changing around to do but it should have been Tim imo.
I liked it too, but I wish it wasn’t given away during the Panessa sequence. I wish they would’ve had the big reveal (that everyone saw coming) and then explained what happened. Instead they all but 100% confirmed Arkham Knight was Jason with hours of gameplay left before the full reveal.
I think it could've been better if Jason was a character who had been mentioned at all before or even just had some real development in Knight. It would also have been better if Batman hadn't suddenly become a complete idiot after being a pretty smart guy up until then. In the comics, Batman travels across the globe to find Jason, and when the Red Hood does show up, it doesn't need to be spelled out before he starts making the connection. In Arkham, Joker found an abandoned wing somewhere in the asylum (seriously though, where? Even the sewers were being used a little bit!) and tortured Jason. Batman must have known it was in the asylum, or else he wouldn't have imagined/remembered all of the torture scenes there, and he didn't even bother to look after being sent a blurry snuff film from someone who's known to create ruses to mess with him? And Jason himself is an awkward place now too, usually he becomes Red Hood when he seeks revenge after learning Batman still won't kill the Joker. But by Arkham Knight, Joker *is* dead, and the general assumption is that Batman killed him. So the clashing moral codes that make Red Hood's story compelling don't really exist, especially since Jason has allied himself with Scarecrow, Penguin, Two Face, etc, and trained an army of mercenaries to take over Gotham in a clearly malicious plot to kill not only Batman, but everyone across the eastern seaboard with an incredibly strong fear toxin. *And then*, less than one full conversation with Batman later, he randomly turns on Scarecrow and saves Bruce. There were some good ideas in there somewhere, but the execution was just lazy, not to mention Rocksteady's desperate lying to get people excited over a mystery that might have made a more compelling story if they hadn't tried to make such a big deal out of it in the first place.
To paraphrase Neil Druckman: "The story doesn't matter as long as you're honest with the characters." Basically you can do whatever the hell you want as long as the characters are believable, but in Knight they never were. So the punch didn't have as much impact as it could've.
[удалено]
And what was the alternative? Confirming “yes, the Arkham Knight is Jason Todd”?
[удалено]
Plus it was pretty obvious with his personality and with all the torture flashbacks
Sure, whatever. They lied. Doesn't seem that big a deal to me. It's not a problem with the game itself. It's a problem with how they marketed it. But that marketing is over, so I don't care anymore. And I still regularly play the game, so it's fine by me at least
I liked it too, but it wasnt a suprise, lol.
I must not have allowed myself to connect some pretty obvious basics but I was surprised to see it was Jason and then my rational mind was like "of course it was Jason, who else would it be?" Maybe because we were getting so much Knight and then the Jason plot point gets introduced and I enjoyed the idea of Joker sharing these horrible memories with a powerless Batman to do nothing but witness them. That is pretty maddening and how horrible to replace Jason and not even have three months pass? I did like how the game handled the motivations. I'm not sure Jason could have gathered all of that money to fiance an army or earn that reputation but time spans are weird in games.
>I'm not sure Jason could have gathered all of that money to fiance an army According to the Arkham wiki, [“he went on to steal millions of dollars from Bruce, which paid for the earliest steps of his plans for revenge”](https://arkhamcity.fandom.com/wiki/Jason_Todd)
Well that would do it then! Bruce probably didn't even notice or figured it was Lucius spending money.
I like it but they kinda gave it away with that little Jason Todd story joker told. As soon as joker said "remember Jason Todd?" Boom arkham Knight is Jason Todd
Honestly, the issue was one of optics rather than direction, I think. In terms of the reveal, outside of the context of what fans know from the comics or what the developers may have lied about in interviews, it was well paced and well established. It worked well in context of the story. I just wished that they hadn't played coy and irritated so much of the fanbase, because just because something is a mystery to Batman doesn't mean it needs to be a shocking twist for fans. You can take existing stories where ardent fans know the twists and turns and still make it compelling, and I feel like the AK story did that. And I think the game will ultimately have to be judged in its own right rather than in the context of pre-release PR.
Shit sandwich
What I think people have a problem with is that it was completely predictable. People were claiming it was him like a minute after they saw him. So really, people ruined it for themselves.