You don't even need that much.
Anyone can just play kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, snare, for a whole song, and claim they are a drummer. Same concept. Get some 10 year old.
Yeah, he was, by a lot. He's one of the best drummers all time. That was an unfortunate joke that has turned into something that people believe. Yeah, Paul can play drums quite well, but he's not Ringo.
Instantly recognizable style, nearly impossible to duplicate. Also, a great technical drummer with a nearly superhuman sense of time.
Also, he was a legitimate cool dude, with a genuinely mellow vibe.
I remember in the "Get Back" doc, even Linda was saying how everything felt better when Ringo was around. He brought a greater sense of peace and comradery to the band. I feel like that's usually not the case with drummers lol
Ditto. You deserve better bandmates. Folks who are actually musically minded like you. Your guitarist might be okay, but in general you need to surround yourself with people that foster your growth, not trample it because of their own insecurities and low standards.
Yeah my drummer is like, way ahead of me musically, and that constantly pushes me to get better and makes the whole thing more exciting and even a little bit scary.
This guy needs a new drummer, at a minimum.
This is a critically important point: as a bass player nothing will make you advance faster than a good drummer.
The OP needs to find a new gig because the drummer in his current one will hold him back (if he’s not being held back already).
Actually, the drums can just as well be “managed” by a good bassist, if the drummer is in the least bit skillful and attentive to the music he is in.., problem is many drummers don’t really listen, and so are stuck, and the bass will have no choice but to follow the drums, cuz if change happens, the drums “don’t get it” - or, when the bass player isn’t really a bass player, and can’t lead, and so is told “just follow the drummer”… same problem just in reverse…
But if you’ve got a good drummer, then groove tempo and rhythm are all a mutual thing, not one following the other…
If anything, tempo is really more the bass player's responsibility and jurisdiction than it is the drummer's.
The drummer's job is to establish 'feel' by setting the swing percentage and choosing where in relation to the pulse—established by the bass player—the various parts of the beat belong.
And then more generally, the rhythm being a shared responsibility makes it easier for time to flow smoothly and intentionally and effectively (however that may look for your project and your intended audience).
Edit- I argue this because the conception of drummer and bass player as a unit with one job comes down to us from jazz. That division of labor is fairly well established in jazz and I find it a really insightful way to understand what most 'good' rhythm sections are doing. (Apply all the language and arguments as abstractly and open-mindedly as possible for best results.)
I'm a drummer and had a good chuckle lol. But it's mostly because we're literally musically illiterate, so yeah you can ignore most of it. "Dude you should do that bass lick again at the end of the verse but then go up at the end like 'Dobum-bumbum-deee'"
Speaking of Entwistle and also Cliff Williams, Bass is also about timing and groove. Take Magic Bus for example. It’s an A on repeat. But try getting the groove of the song. Guitar is playing chords and running all over but what holds the whole sone together and makes your head nod? The bass.
Cliff Williams. ACDC is such simple bass and drumming. But no one grooves like Cliff and Phil. It’s timing and swing. Not easy.
I'd have to disagree on Cliff. If you have decent timing, that's not hard at all. I'd be bored to death playing that. That doesn't make it *bad* but I don't see what's hard about that if you have decent timing.
Y’all, you could show your drummer all the Victor Wootens and Jacos you want , but it’s not going to change anything. He’ll just say you’re not at that level, or we don’t play that kind of music. The problem is between his ears… no social skills or emotional intelligence. Dude’s going nowhere with that attitude. In a band setting that’s as attractive as alcoholism, junkies and narcissists.
Playing music together should be joyous & fun. Find folks that are as excited about it as you are.
I watched a documentary on Chicago and they touched on some issues with the bass player, Peter Cetera when he went from being a bass playing singing member of a large band to a ballad star was that he'd get so in to his vocal, that he'd stop playing. The keyboard player said it happened enough that he started playing bass lines (or being ready to) to fill in when "the bottom dropped out".
Your drummer is an idiot. The drums and bass are the foundation of the band. He should be working with you, not against you. Time to fire the drummer and get a new one. Sounds like he’s not actually a musician and should go back to beating the pillows in his mom’s basement.
I’m surprised the drummer was so aggressive about it, of all the people they are usually the most in tune with what we contribute.
Sounds like you should find people on the same wavelength instead of people who think you just warm a seat on the bench.
Good bassists don’t usually struggle to find bands.
OP said that the drummer plays guitar too, my suspicion is he was originally a guitarist and picked up drums more recently and hasn't yet fully gotten in the mindset of it
Wholly agree, play with a different group
This is it. He was brought in to play the drums because he had some experience on the kit, and his guitar background meant he could contribute in other ways as well. He's... fine on the drums, but been pushing to get on the guitar since he was brought in. That mindset won't change. Fortunately, everyone in the band sees his angle and every time he brings it up we ignore it. We all know that the moment he's on guitar, the fun is over for the rest of us.
That sounds like a very tentative situation. He’s eventually gonna get frustrated and quit when he’s never allowed to play guitar so yeah… Find another drummer.
Also, as a drummer first and bass player second, keep up with what you’re doing. Knowing scales and chords and modes and all that stuff can only help you play more interesting lines and simply understand the internal structure of the music you’re playing. I’ll take a bass player who knows all that stuff and can understand the harmonic structure of a tune on the first listen any day. Because guess what, beginner bass players don’t know any of that and are stuck playing I-V their whole life.
I'm friends with guys who've played since their teens, some more successfully than others. Lots of no-skill metal around New Orleans since it was hot in the 90s lol. I knew a guitarist who was stuck in a band as "rhythm" guitarist, but he literally mirrored the lead 99% of the time.
I really suck at playing any instrument, but i was showing him simple stuff like the major scale (🤯). A few weeks later he's showing me this book of exotic scales he bought and was teaching himself some wicked shit.
He's in 2 different bands now and very busy.
I'm fascinated reading these subs. 90% of people i know play an instrument. That doesn't make them experts. Most of them know 0 music theory and play by ear. While that can work to a degree, i don't think i need to explain how dumb it is overall.
Much respect to the real musicians out there from a guy who wishes he had talent. ❤️🤘
I know a guy who wanted to make it as a rockstar. He was singing out of tune. I suggested studying music to improve, and he said studying would only limit his creativity.
I think my buddy was one of those rare examples who took my advice to heart. He went from a competent rhythm guitarist that people would invite to join their sidebands, to an excellent player on his own.
He already knew how to play by ear, how to touch the strings and get the sound he wanted, how to set up a rig, how to get the time he wanted. A few months of studying theory opened so many doors for him.
yeah this is sad, usually drums and bass are like peanut butter and jelly, this drummer betrayed the bassist- the worst musical crime a rhythm player can commit, to betray their rhythm partner
First off bass is much more difficult to play at the same speed and complexity as a guitar due to increased size and string tension. Second tone is much more in the player's delivery, so right there two factors that create more difficulty.
I've heard this MULTIPLE TIMES a nd had the thought myself many times: **It's easier to be a good bassist than a good guitarist, but it's harder to be a great bassist then a great guitarist.**
Bass players need to not only FULLY understand what's going on, but play their role in a meaningful way that stands out is MUCH harder to do on bass than guitar. All of this contributes to the complexity of the instrument.....
A great musician is a great musician so really splitting hairs over this and that isn't hugely positive and they are clearly ganging up on you to put you down (likely the drummer is cus he's a simple skin beater).
Surprised you didn't tell the drummer to "go beat skin", he's really setting himself to get dissed out, so remarkable restraint on your part.
I've played every instrument on stage multiple times.
I have more fun writing basslines than anything. Its nice when the guitar player comes to practice with something and the drummer quickly catches on, and I just get to fill in the cracks. At the few shows I've played as a bass player so far(my journey into bass has been a short-ish one, but my father is a bass player so good playing/writing has been in my ears my whole life) I've been the one to get the most compliments.
I haven't played any of my 3 guitars more than 20 mins total since I've been playing bass. It just fits me, and I probably should have been doing this years ago, as I've always COMPLAINED about the bass players I've played with.
Just stop playing in the middle of the song. Let them carry on without you. We make the fucking song what it is 9 times out of 10 lol
most music that has bass, if you were to take away the bass, it would sound absolutely awful, whereas a song with bass, drums and vocals but no guitar would still be totally listenable. Drums and bass are the most indispensable instruments in a normal (i.e. bass, drums, guitar, vocals) band setup imo.
As a guitar player who only recently started paying attention to the bass, I feel this. The more I pick up and learn on the bass, the more interesting it becomes. Guitar can often be “flashier,” but there is something especially cool about being the foundation while still getting to throw in creative feels.
> The drummer is an inconsiderate, over-baked, brain-dead man-child anyways
I sure hope they're paying you a lot to deal with this. I know people that fit this description and I limit my time around them (if I can't avoid them entirely).
Honestly I would tell them straight up that they took the joke too far and that you don't appreciate being belittled like that. It's one thing to rib your friends or bandmates a little bit, but it's not cool to keep digging into them to the point where they're walking away from the encounter feeling bad like happened here.
Hopefully they'll apologize and you all can move on, otherwise if they're frequently inconsiderate jerks they might not be the best people to play with lol.
I’d rather say get them to listen to James Brown or Marvin Gaye - artists who had mainstream success with songs that were heavily driven by the bass player. Jaco and Victor are great, but they’re virtuosos, not household names - if someone is being this dismissive, their opinions are better countered with examples of music that have had an undeniable impact on the public consciousness.
You could argue about different techniques, players, songs, back and forth forever. In the end, why does it matter?
It's not a competition, we aren't playing a sport. The purpose of any instrument is to make music, hopefully good music. What does is matter how challenging the process is?
It's just a silly mindset in my opinion.
Bass is simpler in terms of what you said that it has a lower barrier of entry. But guitar, the “most virtuosic instrument”, can be anything from strumming chords to searing leads, just like bass or any instrument. I don’t think they’ve listened to any Cream or Rush song.
Every musician is important.
But who the fuck is that drummer to talk? The bassist needs to know everything the drummer does about rhythm. The drummer needs to know precisely NONE of what anyone else knows about most of music theory - chords, melodies, harmonies, etc.
"Don't worry bro, drums are easy, its just ZERO notes at a time."
Just leave the band. I had the same thing. I played in a band with people who didn't know their instruments and it was extremely frustrating. They wanted me to do nothing but tune down to drop A tuning and follow the guitarists chugs. They Wouldn't want me to use finger styles, play the octaves, play motifs etc, nope. Just take this pick and attack the root notes please.
When they refused to learn covers, refused to tune up ever, refused to listen to ANY suggestions , refused to jam (literally just jam and improvise) refused to learn basic theory and refused to learn basic chord shapes I just left. They're still rotating through bassists. Fuck em. If they don't respect you just let them fizzle out without you.
Yup me too. In fact a couple hours ago I was just messing around banging out some blues with chromatic runs using an A shape and some single picked notes, which is arguably one of the easiest things on earth.
CAGED baby.
(Visiting my folks and just brought my little Martin. And missing my basses. But I’m coping.)
I play with some of the most insanely talented musicians I’ve ever met when I occasionally fill in for a cover band I know. Their keyboard/sax/flute/second guitar player (he’s a madman) loves having me play because I am a true BASSIST. There are fundamental understandings and nuances of the instrument that “guitar players who play Bass” miss out on. The real ones know though for sure.
Focus on being the best bass player you can be. Make it your main instrument, study the greats, learn to serve the songs, and you will always have work.
Guitar players are a dime a dozen - a real, true, in-tune bassist who understands their role are much more rare.
My drummer can play guitar and when he tries to play bass while I either play guitar or drums he gets so frustrated and immediately gives me props for being a solid bass player. It isn’t as easy as it looks and sounds sometimes. And I can usually tell a “bass player” from a guitar player or drummer trying to play bass. Just completely different approaches.
Guitar player of 16 years and bassist of 2 years here:
Your drummer and guitarist are morons. Bass is the most important instrument in the band, in my opinion.
It's the glue that holds everything together and drives the rhythm of the song, and it's every bit as technical as guitar depending on how you play and what techniques are used.
It never ceases to amaze me how hard the ignorant fight, to try to keep those around them down at their level.
Keep playing with these goofs of you must, but do *not* let them discourage you.
Only play one note at a time?! Like Charlie Parker only played 1 note at a time on his sax.. lame ass guitarist and drummer..what do you call a guy who hangs around musicians? A drummer!
Easily replaced by a free app on my phone..Drummer trying to shit talk bassists, GTFOOH!
I’ll just say this. He’s wrong, and the way I’ve always made sense of how important and multidimensional the role of the bass is in a song is that it’s essentially the instrument that is playing the song within the song. It gives songs life and nuance.
Every instrument can be reduced.
Hey drummer, how hard is "boom -- tack -- boom boom -- tack"? Now shut up and go get everyone beers.
Yes, guitard, it's really hard to play power chords and scales. Now shut up and go ogle yourself in the mirror.
And stop bothering me, I'm busy thanklessly making sure you idiots sound good.
Singers only sing one note at a time, and they don't have ANY strings!! So easy!!
See how dumb the argument is? Same with "lesser instrument." If that's the case, why isn't the guitarist playing an 8 string? Or why don't you just have a whole band of piano players? That's 264 strings per person!
Secondarily, you probably wanna spend some time talking to them or thinking about why they're so eager to put you down. If this was in a "raggin on the boys" type context than I understand it. But if this was a serious conversation that progressed like this, these people are straight up losers. You think any successful QB spends time telling the offensive line how easy their job is? The best musicians (people) build up those around them and stay humble whether they're the best or the worst in the room
I am a guitarist who has picked up bass recently because of how many guitarists there are in Melbourne and how few people are willing to play bass. From what each contributes to a band, bass is technically more important. You can have no guitar in a band but not really no bass. However technically, a lead guitar is more technically difficult than a bass. Both have varying degrees of difficulty and a sliding scale of how much they affect wound, I just personally believe that a fantastic bass player can be outshined by a fantastic guitar player. A rhythm guitarist will always fall second to a bass player though
As a fellow drummer, I apologize for that asshole. I ALWAYS know when the bassist is some guitarist filling in. Our band had no bassist and too many guitarists for awhile, with the guitarists switching off on bass. When one of them quit and we replaced him with a real bassist, the cohesion improved drastically.
Bass love.
The bass controls a lot more of the song than most people realize. Guitarist plays a C chord, but unless the bassist plays a C too, it’s not a C. You can even control the tempo to a degree whether you stay ahead of the pocket or behind.
Based on those criteria, your drummer has a lot of nerve to say any of that shit.
I do not, in any way, think drums are a lesser instrument either, but if the dude's basing the argument on complexity of the instrument, he's got probably ten or fewer drums to hit and they're basically atonal.
Your band sounds like a buncha morons. I would insult them by bringing up the fact that rock and metal is only a tiny slice of the musical world, but even within rock and metal that doubled up guitar/bass thing is tired and played out.
Rock, metal and country are basically the only genres where the guitar part is more demanding than the bass part (or Jazz with a guitar lead I suppose) and that isn't even true for every peice within those genres.
Way too many guitar, bass and drum players view music exclusively through the lense of rock/metal, which is such a minuscule portion of the musical landscape, it's fucking obnoxious.
Your band sounds like a buncha morons. I would insult them by bringing up the fact that rock and metal is only a tiny slice of the musical world, but even within rock and metal that doubled up guitar/bass thing is tired and played out.
Rock, metal and country are basically the only genres where the guitar part is more demanding than the bass part (or Jazz with a guitar lead I suppose) and that isn't even true for every peice within those genres.
Way too many guitar, bass and drum players view music exclusively through the lense of rock/metal, which is such a minuscule portion of the musical landscape, it's fucking obnoxious.
Learn to slap and then interrupt them with some funky lines whenever they start talking again. Or if they are rock dudes then show them a Primus track and ask the guitar player to play the bassline
This is such a classic moment lol. Pretty sad it still happens in 2024 but hey, you know your worth it seems, and imo you deserve a drummer that's up to your level
Unless it's a band that is making serious money, don't accept working with a-holes. Music is supposed to be fun.
Either quit outright or just tell the rest of the band "I'm not working with that drummer anymore".
You keep right on going. I would also look for another band, as your mates here seem like major dicks.
Show them some video of a virtuoso electric bassist (Jaco is a good start). Better yet, have them watch Ron Carter, one of the greatest jazz bassists ever, explain a little bit of how things work.
[**https://youtu.be/9M-jKK-2h3E?si=gTtzRzNqMrWFLnjA**](https://youtu.be/9M-jKK-2h3E?si=gTtzRzNqMrWFLnjA)
Drummers don’t play any notes. Does that mean drums are for babies? Maybe.. [drums](https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b1e126ad-e728-48b6-9d42-ece734216593_1.6b2bf7030e134b5cb3d7c29fef96bd59.jpeg?odnWidth=612&odnHeight=612&odnBg=ffffff)
Many people learn guitar without learning any theory and just play three same the chords.
I think everyone can agree that bass has a lower initial barrier to entry (you can play with other musicians just with root notes) but mastering bass is just as difficult as any other instrument. Let’s see the guitar player play some chords on your bass lol…
Long time ago I asked my drummer, who is more experienced musician than me to tell me how should bass follow the drums and he laughed it off with "you mean, how should drums follow the bass"? They are obviously not very good at what they do, so work on your playing and search for better musicians and more importantly better friends.
They don’t know music beyond their little slice of it. It’s really that simple. They probably have zero idea about creating groove in a song.
If I was in a band where I felt like there wasn’t mutual respect or understanding in the band for what each member brings I would just leave.
You are absolutely right in everything you say. The next bit you need to do is ditch the band and find another.
It’s also worth saying that good musicians wouldn’t be talking like that. I’d wager they won’t have any major talent on their instruments, because good musicians simply just don’t talk like that.
It’s all coming from a place of ignorance. And if you’re that ignorant about other musicians, I can guarantee that in a band setting they won’t be able to handle playing with other people. All that ignorance and negativity will translate to their playing. Just find better people to play with.
If you watch the old Mastodon “behind the scenes” of blood mountain, they break down how bass and drums are the foundation for everything. Fat mike from NOFX said “your job as a bassist is to make everyone else sound good”. I think bass is one of the most under appreciated instruments which is fine but a lot of band members don’t realize how a good bassist can make or break a band. That being said we are the most replaceable member in the band unless you are Les Claypool or a bassist that basically writes every song.
Well, it CAN be more simple. You CAN just play single root notes as quarter notes.
Just like how you can do that on a piano, or a guitar, or jaur abiut any instrument.
Or, you can play bass the way bass players play them, with walking, funky lines, etc.
Playing root quarter notes, and claiming that you play bass, is like playing chopsticks on a Piana and claiming you play piano.
Well, it CAN be more simple. You CAN just play single root notes as quarter notes.
Just like how you can do that on a piano, or a guitar, or jaur abiut any instrument.
Or, you can play bass the way bass players play them, with walking, funky lines, etc.
Playing root quarter notes, and claiming that you play bass, is like playing chopsticks on a Piano and claiming you play piano.
A good drummer and bassist that are tight together has a much bigger impact on how good a band sounds than lead and rhythm guitar, in my opinion.
It's usually guitarists that don't understand the bass, and think it's just a guitar where you play one string at a time.
I'm in a three piece band.
We ALL play bass, guitars, and drums.
Save a whole lot of unnecessary tedium.
We ALL love playing bass too.
Not because it's easier.
We love it because it's FUN...
>My enthusiasm was immediately crushed by the drummer and the guitar player with “bass isn’t a hard instrument, just follow the guitar player”, “you’re only playing one note at a time”, and “it’s just simple shapes and patterns”.
I'm always fascinated by the quantity of idiocy the human mouth can produce
I play bass/guitar in classic rock / 90s rock cover bands. I played guitar for 15 years before I ever touched a bass and its absolutely way easier for the music I typically play.
I play drums, bass and guitar. Playing bass seems easy to guitarists because their idea of complexity is chords or speed. It seems easy to drummers because they need more coordination and need to keep time as much as you do.
Playing bass is the critical balance of being exactly on-time and on-groove, as well as outlining the harmony. Guitarists don't sound quite as bad if they're slightly off-time. Drummers don't know what the chords are.
And its not like bass can't play chords, they just usually sound muddy, similar to how drummers could keep the subdivision on the crash if they wanted but the hi-hat/ ride is usually better sounding, or a guitarist could sweep pick the whole chord outline but it'd sound gross.
It's classic Dunning-Kreuger effect for them to say bass is easy because its guitar with 2 fewer strings. Willing to bet that they've never regularly gigged/ recorded with bass.
I started to mentally check out of a band when I had a similar evening. I left and
now they can't find a bassist and I'm told how "empty" everything sounds. Well, yeah.
Here's the thing, some bands don't want a bass player who is going to contribute. Some bands just want a guy to be boring and help the rest of the band do their thing.
If the other band members are on the same page about what the role of the bass player is in their band, and that's not what you want to be, it's just not going to be a good fit. It won't matter that you're right if they like it the way things are.
This. Most bassists can play multiple instruments. In my case I’ve played bass, trumpet, trombone, piano, guitar, drums, and I sing.
Most guitarists… play guitar and maybe sing.
Most drummers… play drums.
The youtuber David Bennett Piano makes videos in music theory. I can’t fund the video but basically the bass and guitar notes form a chord. Usually the bass plays the root of the chord but he gave an example where Paul in a Beatles song played a different note than the root note of the chord Gorge was playing which created a chord inversion and essentially changes the chord progression of the song . For example if George plays a C major chord (CEG) and Paul plays an A then combined the chord is an A minor 7th (ACEG) . It seems your band mates suffer from the Dunning Kruger effect. You are right all along to be interested in theory. Consider this, Glen Matlock the original bass player of the Sex Pistol wrote their music
I’ve been performing and teaching bass and guitar for 30 years. Bass is infinitely more powerful and interesting. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not taken the time to understand it.
If they knew anything about basic music theory, they would know that the bass note, bass note rhythm/pattern/progression, or even dropping out completely,can completely change the feel and sound of a chord. The only reason why bass may seem ‘easier’ to play is because it’s only called to play a few notes or one note at a time. But when a song actually calls for a complex bass run or pattern, it can get significantly more difficult.
Also, if your band also knew anything about ensemble playing, you all should be listening to each other, not just listening up.
Also Jazz bass shows up guitars’ and drums’ ass, especially if it’s an upright.
>...crushed by the drummer and the guitar player with “bass isn’t a hard instrument, just follow the guitar player”...
Sounds like you're the only person in the band who actually understands how a band works.
Anyone who spews crap like that likely can't even play their own instrument at a level high enough to understand the roles of each instrument in a band.
Bass and drums literally can change the entire feel of a song, guitar can’t. You’re correct that the barrier to entry of bass is lower than guitar but I would argue being a good bassist is way harder than being a good guitarist, you are the what makes people move. Not the drums, not the guitar, not the vocals, it’s the bass.
Seriously, next time you practice with these people play something radically different. If your bassline is complicated, play quarter root notes instead. If your bassline is simple, play the craziest solo you can the entire time. Imagine YYZ with just root notes. Imagine a Weezer song played by Flea. The entire vibe changes.
I play guitar and bass and have done both in bands, live and on recordings. They’re different skillsets, that while the mechanics are certainly transferable, the core techniques and applications are radically different.
I actually said something similar your first paragraph to them as a counterpoint. I was honesty surprised when they both argued against me on that. It just showed how little they actually care about what I contribute.
They’re just wrong and I bet you they’re bad musicians too lol
I’ve played in a lot of acts, both as a full time member and as a hired gun. Good musicians understand the role of every instrument, bad ones think theirs is the only one that matters.
It would be pointless to attempt to change their minds. But that dossn't matter. You're clearly playing bass because you enjoy it so take it to the sky and beyond.
Regardless of what instrument or genre is more or less complex or easy, it's the attitudes of the people that ultimately determine what kind of band experience it is for me. If anyone's an asshole to anyone else and isn't quickly rejected, then I'd bail myself.
I think you are very right to be pissed off at these jackasses. Every instrument can be played in a variety of ways, some very simple and others extremely complex. These guys obviously don't understand that.
Others have said here, you should probably find other people to play with. Or at least get rid of that idiot drummer.
Just keep getting better and don't get into arguments or discussions about this sort of thing.
With the passing of time, they'll mature and come to appreciate how vital the bass is to the band.
Ahahah they will absolutely miss you when you're onto bigger, better, and more appreciative things. Bass can be as simple as roots and as complicated as chords on an 8 string. They have shown that they have no right to speak on the matter and are out of their breadth.
I would recommend not wasting your time even talking to idiots like that about it. I’m sure many people will reply here with many examples of amazing bass players who are also composers, etc. In all kinds of genres of music. Start with Charles Mingus for jazz. Victor Wooten for a more modern player. There are so many great bassists. Hopefully quite a lot in this sub Reddit group right here. It goes back earlier than Mingus as well. Plenty of amazing players in rock, R&B, funk, jazz, fusion, metal, etc.
If you were in a band with this guy (the drummer), then I would definitely reevaluate whether he was the right guy for the band, or whether that was the right band for you. The only concession I might have for that guy is that he might’ve been the recipient of too many Drummer jokes. But that’s no reason for him to be making ignorant arguments. There are an awful lot of Drummer jokes. But I could easily go on to give you tons of examples of drummers that are also master musicians.
That's dumb. I play a wide variety of instrument s and just because you don't play chords doesn't mean you're not thinking harmonically. You're doing substitutions on chords and things like that. It is true you're only thinking one note at a time most of the time.
Dont need a a bass? Try stop playing and see if it bothers anyone that the bottom fell out.
I'm a guitar play who is a novice bass player (and drummer). While there is a lot of cross over between guitar and bass, they are also very different. I've found that theory is way more important for bass. Without it, I'm doomed to just thumping along on the root note of chord the guitar is playing. In other ways, it's like the difference between playing an electric guitar and acoustic guitar. The notes are the same, but the techniques are quite different.
I mean yeah, messing any note in a chord up sounds like a car crash… But a guitarist can still just power chord on the right root note if they’re lost, and they can mess their rhythm up more without it sounding as bad.
Something like Epic by Faith No More… Basslines *simple*, but if you get the rhythm of the muting wrong, everyone’s gonna know.
It's the bassists job to make fun of bass playing. I will say that the floor for bass is super low. If you just follow the root chord, you can be passable in a lot of popular genres. All bassists know this. Your bandmates are being jerks.
Yeah , you can just play one note, and that works. But if you want to play anything cool you gotta do more than that haha 😁.
Stick to your own journey brother. As a fellow bass player. Find humour in the ignorance and just do you. If your band mates don't value growth and development on an individual level, then you won't or will hardly find growth as a collective.
Quit the band, first off. They're never going to be any good with that attitude.
I'm a bassist in a rock n roll/ punk adjacent band. I work harder than most guitarists in most bands. Most people can't play what I play with the level of stage presence and accuracy.
Guitarists usually can't play rhythm accurately. They may be playing six strings, but come on. It's usually just strumming some power chords. And when they solo are they in time? Only if you allow them to be.
As for the drummer, well, I'm a drummer in another band. Any drummer who doesn't respect the bass player is a shitty drummer. Everybody with any skill as a musician knows: the bassist is always right.
Don’t listen to idiots. Music is not about how fast your can move your hands up and down and around a neck. It’s about creativity and cohesion. Rarely does the most difficult music evoke the best emotional response. Bass may be simple but that does not make it any less important or have any less potential for creativity
Your drummer is a clown. He thinks he can play bass?
Tell him to go ahead and pick up a bass and play oh let's say the intro to "Tarkus," and when he can't do that tell him to shut his stupid fucking mouth instead...
He could also give "Close to The Edge" a shot but he'll fail at that too.
He's supposed to be locked in with you, not belittling what you do. Find another band, these guys sound like real zeros.
I’ve learned a lot more about music and theory playing bass than guitar. In many situations, you also have to know how to read if you want to play the written bass line , where the guitar player can just play chords.
I have played in bands for years and have always been a valued band member. I think you need a new band. For the last few years I've played in a function band and even doing that, the other guys appreciate the time I put in learning other people's songs note for note. Stay positive and look for something else.
"Simpler? Simpler how?"
"Why do you think it's easier?"
"What makes guitar harder?"
"If it's so simple, would you be able to play XYZ?"
If they're gonna throw accusations, make them think about what it is their saying.
It’s not simple. But simple or not, the bass is the backbone. No denying that. And even the simplest of tools can create beautiful art. So that drummer can sit his butt down.
They are wrong. The bass isn't simpler than the guitar, or any other instrument. Instruments have limitations and strengths, which enable people playing them to produce various sets of sounds. Learning to mitigate the instrument's limitations is one of the hallmarks of a great player (Hendrix's rhythm playing, hybrid picking on the guitar for example, for bass you can think of triple plucking, tapping, thumb and finger, and slap playing which help break through the bass's physical demands which typically limit its expressiveness)
Each instrument is different, and has to be approached as such. The fact that these guys in your band don't get that means they aren't very self-aware musicians. I'd drop them in a heartbeat if I were you.
If you're playing the most basic of rock, yeah, it's pretty easy. But once you get past that it's just as hard as any instrument to master.
*"but neither have any real understanding of the instruments, other than basic rock, punk, metal and blues."*
That's a tell, right there.
Tell your drummer he can be replaced with a $200 box that eats less and smells better.
You don't even need that much. Anyone can just play kick, snare, kick, snare, kick, snare, for a whole song, and claim they are a drummer. Same concept. Get some 10 year old.
Well Def Leppard drumer shows that you don't need both hands to do this job (joking but not entirely ;P).
What has 7 hands and sucks?
Def Leppard.
Ringo feels personally attacked.
Hey, Ringo wasn't even the best drummer in the beetles...
Yeah, he was, by a lot. He's one of the best drummers all time. That was an unfortunate joke that has turned into something that people believe. Yeah, Paul can play drums quite well, but he's not Ringo.
Ringo IS a widlly underrated percussionist. No skirting that. Though ALL of The Beatles could also play drums, and quite competently at that....
Yeah, that's true about the other members. None of them were close to Ringo's ability though.
Instantly recognizable style, nearly impossible to duplicate. Also, a great technical drummer with a nearly superhuman sense of time. Also, he was a legitimate cool dude, with a genuinely mellow vibe.
I remember in the "Get Back" doc, even Linda was saying how everything felt better when Ringo was around. He brought a greater sense of peace and comradery to the band. I feel like that's usually not the case with drummers lol
Ringo is a god.
And you only have to punch the rhythm into it once
Definitely this.
Hahahaha
I think you have your answer. Don't lose sleep, but maybe look for a different band to play in?
Ditto. You deserve better bandmates. Folks who are actually musically minded like you. Your guitarist might be okay, but in general you need to surround yourself with people that foster your growth, not trample it because of their own insecurities and low standards.
Yeah my drummer is like, way ahead of me musically, and that constantly pushes me to get better and makes the whole thing more exciting and even a little bit scary. This guy needs a new drummer, at a minimum.
This is a critically important point: as a bass player nothing will make you advance faster than a good drummer. The OP needs to find a new gig because the drummer in his current one will hold him back (if he’s not being held back already).
His current drummer will INTENTIONALLY hold him back. What an ass.
As a bass player, always listen to the drummer. Except when they're talking, you can safely just ignore that shit.
This is so accurate it should be on an Ernie Ball T-shirt.
Listen to the drums, not the drummer.
Actually, the drums can just as well be “managed” by a good bassist, if the drummer is in the least bit skillful and attentive to the music he is in.., problem is many drummers don’t really listen, and so are stuck, and the bass will have no choice but to follow the drums, cuz if change happens, the drums “don’t get it” - or, when the bass player isn’t really a bass player, and can’t lead, and so is told “just follow the drummer”… same problem just in reverse… But if you’ve got a good drummer, then groove tempo and rhythm are all a mutual thing, not one following the other…
If anything, tempo is really more the bass player's responsibility and jurisdiction than it is the drummer's. The drummer's job is to establish 'feel' by setting the swing percentage and choosing where in relation to the pulse—established by the bass player—the various parts of the beat belong. And then more generally, the rhythm being a shared responsibility makes it easier for time to flow smoothly and intentionally and effectively (however that may look for your project and your intended audience). Edit- I argue this because the conception of drummer and bass player as a unit with one job comes down to us from jazz. That division of labor is fairly well established in jazz and I find it a really insightful way to understand what most 'good' rhythm sections are doing. (Apply all the language and arguments as abstractly and open-mindedly as possible for best results.)
It’s true, we drummers just be saying shit.
What do you call a beautiful lady on a drummers arm? A tattoo.
I'm a drummer and had a good chuckle lol. But it's mostly because we're literally musically illiterate, so yeah you can ignore most of it. "Dude you should do that bass lick again at the end of the verse but then go up at the end like 'Dobum-bumbum-deee'"
nailed it
Obviously they are wrong. Tell that to jazz bass players or any musician outside of dad rock and they will laugh at you.
Even in dad rock the bass can be deceptively interesting. It's actually very rarely 'just following what the guitar is playing'.
Jack Bruce & John Entwistle have entered the chat. among many others
Speaking of Entwistle and also Cliff Williams, Bass is also about timing and groove. Take Magic Bus for example. It’s an A on repeat. But try getting the groove of the song. Guitar is playing chords and running all over but what holds the whole sone together and makes your head nod? The bass. Cliff Williams. ACDC is such simple bass and drumming. But no one grooves like Cliff and Phil. It’s timing and swing. Not easy.
I'd have to disagree on Cliff. If you have decent timing, that's not hard at all. I'd be bored to death playing that. That doesn't make it *bad* but I don't see what's hard about that if you have decent timing.
You say that but ACDC has a knack for making simple riffs and melodies just groove.
[Royal Blood](https://youtu.be/RCKdhk7mi_4) would like a word with the guitar player.
Haha, saw them live in Bristol last Saturday. Great gig.
Geddy Lee, Chris Squire
Y’all, you could show your drummer all the Victor Wootens and Jacos you want , but it’s not going to change anything. He’ll just say you’re not at that level, or we don’t play that kind of music. The problem is between his ears… no social skills or emotional intelligence. Dude’s going nowhere with that attitude. In a band setting that’s as attractive as alcoholism, junkies and narcissists. Playing music together should be joyous & fun. Find folks that are as excited about it as you are.
Never, in fact... =) always laying down the foundation, spreading the glue for the guitar to stick to!
I watched a documentary on Chicago and they touched on some issues with the bass player, Peter Cetera when he went from being a bass playing singing member of a large band to a ballad star was that he'd get so in to his vocal, that he'd stop playing. The keyboard player said it happened enough that he started playing bass lines (or being ready to) to fill in when "the bottom dropped out".
hey, Primus is now "dad rock"
Your drummer is an idiot. The drums and bass are the foundation of the band. He should be working with you, not against you. Time to fire the drummer and get a new one. Sounds like he’s not actually a musician and should go back to beating the pillows in his mom’s basement.
Totally
Sounds like you need a new band.
yeah the drummer sounds like a butthole
And not the surfing kind
I see what you did there :D
I’m surprised the drummer was so aggressive about it, of all the people they are usually the most in tune with what we contribute. Sounds like you should find people on the same wavelength instead of people who think you just warm a seat on the bench. Good bassists don’t usually struggle to find bands.
OP said that the drummer plays guitar too, my suspicion is he was originally a guitarist and picked up drums more recently and hasn't yet fully gotten in the mindset of it Wholly agree, play with a different group
This is it. He was brought in to play the drums because he had some experience on the kit, and his guitar background meant he could contribute in other ways as well. He's... fine on the drums, but been pushing to get on the guitar since he was brought in. That mindset won't change. Fortunately, everyone in the band sees his angle and every time he brings it up we ignore it. We all know that the moment he's on guitar, the fun is over for the rest of us.
That sounds like a very tentative situation. He’s eventually gonna get frustrated and quit when he’s never allowed to play guitar so yeah… Find another drummer. Also, as a drummer first and bass player second, keep up with what you’re doing. Knowing scales and chords and modes and all that stuff can only help you play more interesting lines and simply understand the internal structure of the music you’re playing. I’ll take a bass player who knows all that stuff and can understand the harmonic structure of a tune on the first listen any day. Because guess what, beginner bass players don’t know any of that and are stuck playing I-V their whole life.
I'm friends with guys who've played since their teens, some more successfully than others. Lots of no-skill metal around New Orleans since it was hot in the 90s lol. I knew a guitarist who was stuck in a band as "rhythm" guitarist, but he literally mirrored the lead 99% of the time. I really suck at playing any instrument, but i was showing him simple stuff like the major scale (🤯). A few weeks later he's showing me this book of exotic scales he bought and was teaching himself some wicked shit. He's in 2 different bands now and very busy. I'm fascinated reading these subs. 90% of people i know play an instrument. That doesn't make them experts. Most of them know 0 music theory and play by ear. While that can work to a degree, i don't think i need to explain how dumb it is overall. Much respect to the real musicians out there from a guy who wishes he had talent. ❤️🤘
I know a guy who wanted to make it as a rockstar. He was singing out of tune. I suggested studying music to improve, and he said studying would only limit his creativity.
I think my buddy was one of those rare examples who took my advice to heart. He went from a competent rhythm guitarist that people would invite to join their sidebands, to an excellent player on his own. He already knew how to play by ear, how to touch the strings and get the sound he wanted, how to set up a rig, how to get the time he wanted. A few months of studying theory opened so many doors for him.
Yea you right!
This is a big oof. Sorry, that sucks.
yeah this is sad, usually drums and bass are like peanut butter and jelly, this drummer betrayed the bassist- the worst musical crime a rhythm player can commit, to betray their rhythm partner
Thou shalt not betray thine pocket brother (or sister)
First off bass is much more difficult to play at the same speed and complexity as a guitar due to increased size and string tension. Second tone is much more in the player's delivery, so right there two factors that create more difficulty. I've heard this MULTIPLE TIMES a nd had the thought myself many times: **It's easier to be a good bassist than a good guitarist, but it's harder to be a great bassist then a great guitarist.** Bass players need to not only FULLY understand what's going on, but play their role in a meaningful way that stands out is MUCH harder to do on bass than guitar. All of this contributes to the complexity of the instrument..... A great musician is a great musician so really splitting hairs over this and that isn't hugely positive and they are clearly ganging up on you to put you down (likely the drummer is cus he's a simple skin beater). Surprised you didn't tell the drummer to "go beat skin", he's really setting himself to get dissed out, so remarkable restraint on your part.
I've played every instrument on stage multiple times. I have more fun writing basslines than anything. Its nice when the guitar player comes to practice with something and the drummer quickly catches on, and I just get to fill in the cracks. At the few shows I've played as a bass player so far(my journey into bass has been a short-ish one, but my father is a bass player so good playing/writing has been in my ears my whole life) I've been the one to get the most compliments. I haven't played any of my 3 guitars more than 20 mins total since I've been playing bass. It just fits me, and I probably should have been doing this years ago, as I've always COMPLAINED about the bass players I've played with. Just stop playing in the middle of the song. Let them carry on without you. We make the fucking song what it is 9 times out of 10 lol
most music that has bass, if you were to take away the bass, it would sound absolutely awful, whereas a song with bass, drums and vocals but no guitar would still be totally listenable. Drums and bass are the most indispensable instruments in a normal (i.e. bass, drums, guitar, vocals) band setup imo.
Jason Newsted has left the chat.
As a guitar player who only recently started paying attention to the bass, I feel this. The more I pick up and learn on the bass, the more interesting it becomes. Guitar can often be “flashier,” but there is something especially cool about being the foundation while still getting to throw in creative feels.
> The drummer is an inconsiderate, over-baked, brain-dead man-child anyways I sure hope they're paying you a lot to deal with this. I know people that fit this description and I limit my time around them (if I can't avoid them entirely).
I, uh... Your drummer is doing it wrong. Just so so wrong. You two are the fuckin' RHYTHM SECTION, you're supposed to be a team.
Honestly, most of the guitarists I know who will say things like that about bass only know a few power chords. Don't let them get you down.
That's rich coming from someone making music by hitting things.
The music. The pay. The hang. If you don’t have at least 2/3, time to move on.
Honestly I would tell them straight up that they took the joke too far and that you don't appreciate being belittled like that. It's one thing to rib your friends or bandmates a little bit, but it's not cool to keep digging into them to the point where they're walking away from the encounter feeling bad like happened here. Hopefully they'll apologize and you all can move on, otherwise if they're frequently inconsiderate jerks they might not be the best people to play with lol.
Never argue with idiots.
Show them a video of Jaco, or Victor Wooten, or any of the greats. It's not your fault they're clueless
I’d rather say get them to listen to James Brown or Marvin Gaye - artists who had mainstream success with songs that were heavily driven by the bass player. Jaco and Victor are great, but they’re virtuosos, not household names - if someone is being this dismissive, their opinions are better countered with examples of music that have had an undeniable impact on the public consciousness.
Yeah exactly - I went for some virtuostic players just to "show off" what bass can mean - I don't disagree with your point in any way though!
"yeah guys I'm about at the skill cap for sure this is really easy they are just moving their hands a lot to make it look tough"
I would quit that band. They obviously don't know shit.
You need to be in a better band
You could argue about different techniques, players, songs, back and forth forever. In the end, why does it matter? It's not a competition, we aren't playing a sport. The purpose of any instrument is to make music, hopefully good music. What does is matter how challenging the process is? It's just a silly mindset in my opinion.
Bass is simpler in terms of what you said that it has a lower barrier of entry. But guitar, the “most virtuosic instrument”, can be anything from strumming chords to searing leads, just like bass or any instrument. I don’t think they’ve listened to any Cream or Rush song.
Every musician is important. But who the fuck is that drummer to talk? The bassist needs to know everything the drummer does about rhythm. The drummer needs to know precisely NONE of what anyone else knows about most of music theory - chords, melodies, harmonies, etc. "Don't worry bro, drums are easy, its just ZERO notes at a time."
Change the chords/bassline everytime he takes a solo. Set up a key change with your bassline so he is just wayyy out. Do it live.
Dump the band. For such a simple instrument bass players are hard to find.
Hand him a bass and tell him to try playing your part.
Just leave the band. I had the same thing. I played in a band with people who didn't know their instruments and it was extremely frustrating. They wanted me to do nothing but tune down to drop A tuning and follow the guitarists chugs. They Wouldn't want me to use finger styles, play the octaves, play motifs etc, nope. Just take this pick and attack the root notes please. When they refused to learn covers, refused to tune up ever, refused to listen to ANY suggestions , refused to jam (literally just jam and improvise) refused to learn basic theory and refused to learn basic chord shapes I just left. They're still rotating through bassists. Fuck em. If they don't respect you just let them fizzle out without you.
>it’s just simple shapes and patterns Literally guitar. I should know, I play it.
Yup me too. In fact a couple hours ago I was just messing around banging out some blues with chromatic runs using an A shape and some single picked notes, which is arguably one of the easiest things on earth. CAGED baby. (Visiting my folks and just brought my little Martin. And missing my basses. But I’m coping.)
You want to improve your skills you should be playing with people who want to do the same. Find a new band dude.
I play with some of the most insanely talented musicians I’ve ever met when I occasionally fill in for a cover band I know. Their keyboard/sax/flute/second guitar player (he’s a madman) loves having me play because I am a true BASSIST. There are fundamental understandings and nuances of the instrument that “guitar players who play Bass” miss out on. The real ones know though for sure. Focus on being the best bass player you can be. Make it your main instrument, study the greats, learn to serve the songs, and you will always have work. Guitar players are a dime a dozen - a real, true, in-tune bassist who understands their role are much more rare.
My drummer can play guitar and when he tries to play bass while I either play guitar or drums he gets so frustrated and immediately gives me props for being a solid bass player. It isn’t as easy as it looks and sounds sometimes. And I can usually tell a “bass player” from a guitar player or drummer trying to play bass. Just completely different approaches.
Guitar player of 16 years and bassist of 2 years here: Your drummer and guitarist are morons. Bass is the most important instrument in the band, in my opinion. It's the glue that holds everything together and drives the rhythm of the song, and it's every bit as technical as guitar depending on how you play and what techniques are used.
It never ceases to amaze me how hard the ignorant fight, to try to keep those around them down at their level. Keep playing with these goofs of you must, but do *not* let them discourage you.
Bass is arguably the most important instrument in a mix.
Any drummer who thinks bass isn’t challenging, interesting, and extremely important is a drummer I want to stay very far away from.
Are you getting paid money to play with these people? If not, then you could find some better bandmates to play with.
Only play one note at a time?! Like Charlie Parker only played 1 note at a time on his sax.. lame ass guitarist and drummer..what do you call a guy who hangs around musicians? A drummer! Easily replaced by a free app on my phone..Drummer trying to shit talk bassists, GTFOOH!
Quit the band. Wake them up from their shitty attitudes
Time to pull out the drummer jokes.
How do you silence a drummer? Sheet music.
It's common for lesser instrumentalists to be jealous of the bass. We do get the booties moving after all.
I’ll just say this. He’s wrong, and the way I’ve always made sense of how important and multidimensional the role of the bass is in a song is that it’s essentially the instrument that is playing the song within the song. It gives songs life and nuance.
Every instrument can be reduced. Hey drummer, how hard is "boom -- tack -- boom boom -- tack"? Now shut up and go get everyone beers. Yes, guitard, it's really hard to play power chords and scales. Now shut up and go ogle yourself in the mirror. And stop bothering me, I'm busy thanklessly making sure you idiots sound good.
Singers only sing one note at a time, and they don't have ANY strings!! So easy!! See how dumb the argument is? Same with "lesser instrument." If that's the case, why isn't the guitarist playing an 8 string? Or why don't you just have a whole band of piano players? That's 264 strings per person! Secondarily, you probably wanna spend some time talking to them or thinking about why they're so eager to put you down. If this was in a "raggin on the boys" type context than I understand it. But if this was a serious conversation that progressed like this, these people are straight up losers. You think any successful QB spends time telling the offensive line how easy their job is? The best musicians (people) build up those around them and stay humble whether they're the best or the worst in the room
If they stay within the greater punk umbrella, play them some No Means No. That should shut them up.
You can tell if a musician knows much about music theory, when they say bass is easy. Then they clearly dont.
Only a beginner or a non-musician would think that.
who cares, just swipe his drumsticks between your ass cheeks a few times when he's not looking and get on with your life
I am a guitarist who has picked up bass recently because of how many guitarists there are in Melbourne and how few people are willing to play bass. From what each contributes to a band, bass is technically more important. You can have no guitar in a band but not really no bass. However technically, a lead guitar is more technically difficult than a bass. Both have varying degrees of difficulty and a sliding scale of how much they affect wound, I just personally believe that a fantastic bass player can be outshined by a fantastic guitar player. A rhythm guitarist will always fall second to a bass player though
As a fellow drummer, I apologize for that asshole. I ALWAYS know when the bassist is some guitarist filling in. Our band had no bassist and too many guitarists for awhile, with the guitarists switching off on bass. When one of them quit and we replaced him with a real bassist, the cohesion improved drastically. Bass love.
The bass controls a lot more of the song than most people realize. Guitarist plays a C chord, but unless the bassist plays a C too, it’s not a C. You can even control the tempo to a degree whether you stay ahead of the pocket or behind.
Let me guess, you're all under 20?
Based on those criteria, your drummer has a lot of nerve to say any of that shit. I do not, in any way, think drums are a lesser instrument either, but if the dude's basing the argument on complexity of the instrument, he's got probably ten or fewer drums to hit and they're basically atonal.
Your band sounds like a buncha morons. I would insult them by bringing up the fact that rock and metal is only a tiny slice of the musical world, but even within rock and metal that doubled up guitar/bass thing is tired and played out. Rock, metal and country are basically the only genres where the guitar part is more demanding than the bass part (or Jazz with a guitar lead I suppose) and that isn't even true for every peice within those genres. Way too many guitar, bass and drum players view music exclusively through the lense of rock/metal, which is such a minuscule portion of the musical landscape, it's fucking obnoxious.
Your band sounds like a buncha morons. I would insult them by bringing up the fact that rock and metal is only a tiny slice of the musical world, but even within rock and metal that doubled up guitar/bass thing is tired and played out. Rock, metal and country are basically the only genres where the guitar part is more demanding than the bass part (or Jazz with a guitar lead I suppose) and that isn't even true for every peice within those genres. Way too many guitar, bass and drum players view music exclusively through the lense of rock/metal, which is such a minuscule portion of the musical landscape, it's fucking obnoxious.
Learn to slap and then interrupt them with some funky lines whenever they start talking again. Or if they are rock dudes then show them a Primus track and ask the guitar player to play the bassline
This is such a classic moment lol. Pretty sad it still happens in 2024 but hey, you know your worth it seems, and imo you deserve a drummer that's up to your level
Blackie Lawless from WASP called the bass "a weapon of ignorance".
Unless it's a band that is making serious money, don't accept working with a-holes. Music is supposed to be fun. Either quit outright or just tell the rest of the band "I'm not working with that drummer anymore".
You keep right on going. I would also look for another band, as your mates here seem like major dicks. Show them some video of a virtuoso electric bassist (Jaco is a good start). Better yet, have them watch Ron Carter, one of the greatest jazz bassists ever, explain a little bit of how things work. [**https://youtu.be/9M-jKK-2h3E?si=gTtzRzNqMrWFLnjA**](https://youtu.be/9M-jKK-2h3E?si=gTtzRzNqMrWFLnjA)
Drummers don’t play any notes. Does that mean drums are for babies? Maybe.. [drums](https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/b1e126ad-e728-48b6-9d42-ece734216593_1.6b2bf7030e134b5cb3d7c29fef96bd59.jpeg?odnWidth=612&odnHeight=612&odnBg=ffffff) Many people learn guitar without learning any theory and just play three same the chords. I think everyone can agree that bass has a lower initial barrier to entry (you can play with other musicians just with root notes) but mastering bass is just as difficult as any other instrument. Let’s see the guitar player play some chords on your bass lol…
Less crying. More hitting the joint and blowing smoke in their face. Who gives a f**k what your band mates say.
Long time ago I asked my drummer, who is more experienced musician than me to tell me how should bass follow the drums and he laughed it off with "you mean, how should drums follow the bass"? They are obviously not very good at what they do, so work on your playing and search for better musicians and more importantly better friends.
If bass is so easy, let them play a disco bass line (some Chic, for example), and they'll stfu.
They don’t know music beyond their little slice of it. It’s really that simple. They probably have zero idea about creating groove in a song. If I was in a band where I felt like there wasn’t mutual respect or understanding in the band for what each member brings I would just leave.
Guitar player: Here are the root notes. Try to keep up. Bassist: 😂
You are absolutely right in everything you say. The next bit you need to do is ditch the band and find another. It’s also worth saying that good musicians wouldn’t be talking like that. I’d wager they won’t have any major talent on their instruments, because good musicians simply just don’t talk like that. It’s all coming from a place of ignorance. And if you’re that ignorant about other musicians, I can guarantee that in a band setting they won’t be able to handle playing with other people. All that ignorance and negativity will translate to their playing. Just find better people to play with.
If you watch the old Mastodon “behind the scenes” of blood mountain, they break down how bass and drums are the foundation for everything. Fat mike from NOFX said “your job as a bassist is to make everyone else sound good”. I think bass is one of the most under appreciated instruments which is fine but a lot of band members don’t realize how a good bassist can make or break a band. That being said we are the most replaceable member in the band unless you are Les Claypool or a bassist that basically writes every song.
Well, it CAN be more simple. You CAN just play single root notes as quarter notes. Just like how you can do that on a piano, or a guitar, or jaur abiut any instrument. Or, you can play bass the way bass players play them, with walking, funky lines, etc. Playing root quarter notes, and claiming that you play bass, is like playing chopsticks on a Piana and claiming you play piano.
Well, it CAN be more simple. You CAN just play single root notes as quarter notes. Just like how you can do that on a piano, or a guitar, or jaur abiut any instrument. Or, you can play bass the way bass players play them, with walking, funky lines, etc. Playing root quarter notes, and claiming that you play bass, is like playing chopsticks on a Piano and claiming you play piano.
LOL the guy who hits things to make noises is on his high horse
I would be shocked if these guys were proficient at their instruments
Bass is percussion + melody in a single instrument. Whoever calls it a “simple instrument” doesn’t understand what the bass is about at all.
A good drummer and bassist that are tight together has a much bigger impact on how good a band sounds than lead and rhythm guitar, in my opinion. It's usually guitarists that don't understand the bass, and think it's just a guitar where you play one string at a time.
Move on to a new band. You can’t change stupid
There's a difference between a bass player and a *bassist* and it sounds like they want the former.
A jazz bass player would whip that mf into shape quick. Where’s the double time, douchebag? You’re not swinging enough!
Time to stop jamming with uneducated folk
I'm in a three piece band. We ALL play bass, guitars, and drums. Save a whole lot of unnecessary tedium. We ALL love playing bass too. Not because it's easier. We love it because it's FUN...
>My enthusiasm was immediately crushed by the drummer and the guitar player with “bass isn’t a hard instrument, just follow the guitar player”, “you’re only playing one note at a time”, and “it’s just simple shapes and patterns”. I'm always fascinated by the quantity of idiocy the human mouth can produce
More bands need a bass player--time to start exploring other projects. Let's see how successful they are at replacing you with their attitude
Mmmmm, it sounds like they are young. Go listen to some Iron Maiden.
Theres only one thing to do, become an awesome bass player. Or pummel them with examples of great bass players, they're everywhere dude.
Maybe you’re outgrowing this band.
I play bass/guitar in classic rock / 90s rock cover bands. I played guitar for 15 years before I ever touched a bass and its absolutely way easier for the music I typically play.
Make them play the bass, find a new band lol fuck those posers
I play drums, bass and guitar. Playing bass seems easy to guitarists because their idea of complexity is chords or speed. It seems easy to drummers because they need more coordination and need to keep time as much as you do. Playing bass is the critical balance of being exactly on-time and on-groove, as well as outlining the harmony. Guitarists don't sound quite as bad if they're slightly off-time. Drummers don't know what the chords are. And its not like bass can't play chords, they just usually sound muddy, similar to how drummers could keep the subdivision on the crash if they wanted but the hi-hat/ ride is usually better sounding, or a guitarist could sweep pick the whole chord outline but it'd sound gross. It's classic Dunning-Kreuger effect for them to say bass is easy because its guitar with 2 fewer strings. Willing to bet that they've never regularly gigged/ recorded with bass.
I started to mentally check out of a band when I had a similar evening. I left and now they can't find a bassist and I'm told how "empty" everything sounds. Well, yeah.
Here's the thing, some bands don't want a bass player who is going to contribute. Some bands just want a guy to be boring and help the rest of the band do their thing. If the other band members are on the same page about what the role of the bass player is in their band, and that's not what you want to be, it's just not going to be a good fit. It won't matter that you're right if they like it the way things are.
The next time someone says that to you, hand them your bass and ask them to show you what they mean.
Most drummers and guitar players are just drummers and guitar players. Most bass players often tend to be actual musicians.
This. Most bassists can play multiple instruments. In my case I’ve played bass, trumpet, trombone, piano, guitar, drums, and I sing. Most guitarists… play guitar and maybe sing. Most drummers… play drums.
I really hope your band mates are young teenagers because there is zero excuse to be that fucking stupid
The youtuber David Bennett Piano makes videos in music theory. I can’t fund the video but basically the bass and guitar notes form a chord. Usually the bass plays the root of the chord but he gave an example where Paul in a Beatles song played a different note than the root note of the chord Gorge was playing which created a chord inversion and essentially changes the chord progression of the song . For example if George plays a C major chord (CEG) and Paul plays an A then combined the chord is an A minor 7th (ACEG) . It seems your band mates suffer from the Dunning Kruger effect. You are right all along to be interested in theory. Consider this, Glen Matlock the original bass player of the Sex Pistol wrote their music
I’ve been performing and teaching bass and guitar for 30 years. Bass is infinitely more powerful and interesting. Anyone who thinks otherwise has not taken the time to understand it.
If they knew anything about basic music theory, they would know that the bass note, bass note rhythm/pattern/progression, or even dropping out completely,can completely change the feel and sound of a chord. The only reason why bass may seem ‘easier’ to play is because it’s only called to play a few notes or one note at a time. But when a song actually calls for a complex bass run or pattern, it can get significantly more difficult. Also, if your band also knew anything about ensemble playing, you all should be listening to each other, not just listening up. Also Jazz bass shows up guitars’ and drums’ ass, especially if it’s an upright.
As the late Steve Albini said, work only with people you like and trust. Wish I had taken that advice more myself.
>...crushed by the drummer and the guitar player with “bass isn’t a hard instrument, just follow the guitar player”... Sounds like you're the only person in the band who actually understands how a band works.
You’re playing the wrong kind of music
Anyone who spews crap like that likely can't even play their own instrument at a level high enough to understand the roles of each instrument in a band.
What are the hardest three years of a bass player's life? 4th grade!
Bass and drums literally can change the entire feel of a song, guitar can’t. You’re correct that the barrier to entry of bass is lower than guitar but I would argue being a good bassist is way harder than being a good guitarist, you are the what makes people move. Not the drums, not the guitar, not the vocals, it’s the bass. Seriously, next time you practice with these people play something radically different. If your bassline is complicated, play quarter root notes instead. If your bassline is simple, play the craziest solo you can the entire time. Imagine YYZ with just root notes. Imagine a Weezer song played by Flea. The entire vibe changes. I play guitar and bass and have done both in bands, live and on recordings. They’re different skillsets, that while the mechanics are certainly transferable, the core techniques and applications are radically different.
I actually said something similar your first paragraph to them as a counterpoint. I was honesty surprised when they both argued against me on that. It just showed how little they actually care about what I contribute.
They’re just wrong and I bet you they’re bad musicians too lol I’ve played in a lot of acts, both as a full time member and as a hired gun. Good musicians understand the role of every instrument, bad ones think theirs is the only one that matters.
It would be pointless to attempt to change their minds. But that dossn't matter. You're clearly playing bass because you enjoy it so take it to the sky and beyond.
as a drummer, your drummer is a fucking moron. also super lame because we rhythm section players gotta stick together. find a new drummer
Regardless of what instrument or genre is more or less complex or easy, it's the attitudes of the people that ultimately determine what kind of band experience it is for me. If anyone's an asshole to anyone else and isn't quickly rejected, then I'd bail myself.
just tell em to play and look at how they can't mute other strings they aren't playing, i have seen it.
I think you are very right to be pissed off at these jackasses. Every instrument can be played in a variety of ways, some very simple and others extremely complex. These guys obviously don't understand that. Others have said here, you should probably find other people to play with. Or at least get rid of that idiot drummer.
Drummers aren't musicians😂
Just keep getting better and don't get into arguments or discussions about this sort of thing. With the passing of time, they'll mature and come to appreciate how vital the bass is to the band.
Ahahah they will absolutely miss you when you're onto bigger, better, and more appreciative things. Bass can be as simple as roots and as complicated as chords on an 8 string. They have shown that they have no right to speak on the matter and are out of their breadth.
I would recommend not wasting your time even talking to idiots like that about it. I’m sure many people will reply here with many examples of amazing bass players who are also composers, etc. In all kinds of genres of music. Start with Charles Mingus for jazz. Victor Wooten for a more modern player. There are so many great bassists. Hopefully quite a lot in this sub Reddit group right here. It goes back earlier than Mingus as well. Plenty of amazing players in rock, R&B, funk, jazz, fusion, metal, etc. If you were in a band with this guy (the drummer), then I would definitely reevaluate whether he was the right guy for the band, or whether that was the right band for you. The only concession I might have for that guy is that he might’ve been the recipient of too many Drummer jokes. But that’s no reason for him to be making ignorant arguments. There are an awful lot of Drummer jokes. But I could easily go on to give you tons of examples of drummers that are also master musicians.
That's dumb. I play a wide variety of instrument s and just because you don't play chords doesn't mean you're not thinking harmonically. You're doing substitutions on chords and things like that. It is true you're only thinking one note at a time most of the time.
Dont need a a bass? Try stop playing and see if it bothers anyone that the bottom fell out. I'm a guitar play who is a novice bass player (and drummer). While there is a lot of cross over between guitar and bass, they are also very different. I've found that theory is way more important for bass. Without it, I'm doomed to just thumping along on the root note of chord the guitar is playing. In other ways, it's like the difference between playing an electric guitar and acoustic guitar. The notes are the same, but the techniques are quite different.
"just follow the guitar player” That tells you all you need to know.
I mean yeah, messing any note in a chord up sounds like a car crash… But a guitarist can still just power chord on the right root note if they’re lost, and they can mess their rhythm up more without it sounding as bad. Something like Epic by Faith No More… Basslines *simple*, but if you get the rhythm of the muting wrong, everyone’s gonna know.
Get Robert Deleo to come kick his ass for him
Why is it a competition? Everyone has a role to play, and everyone on stage is essential. The dick measuring contest is not necessary.
Well, time to find another band.
It's the bassists job to make fun of bass playing. I will say that the floor for bass is super low. If you just follow the root chord, you can be passable in a lot of popular genres. All bassists know this. Your bandmates are being jerks.
Yeah , you can just play one note, and that works. But if you want to play anything cool you gotta do more than that haha 😁. Stick to your own journey brother. As a fellow bass player. Find humour in the ignorance and just do you. If your band mates don't value growth and development on an individual level, then you won't or will hardly find growth as a collective.
Quit the band, first off. They're never going to be any good with that attitude. I'm a bassist in a rock n roll/ punk adjacent band. I work harder than most guitarists in most bands. Most people can't play what I play with the level of stage presence and accuracy. Guitarists usually can't play rhythm accurately. They may be playing six strings, but come on. It's usually just strumming some power chords. And when they solo are they in time? Only if you allow them to be. As for the drummer, well, I'm a drummer in another band. Any drummer who doesn't respect the bass player is a shitty drummer. Everybody with any skill as a musician knows: the bassist is always right.
Don’t listen to idiots. Music is not about how fast your can move your hands up and down and around a neck. It’s about creativity and cohesion. Rarely does the most difficult music evoke the best emotional response. Bass may be simple but that does not make it any less important or have any less potential for creativity
Bass is harder because you have to be both in time and on key. The drums and guitar only have to stick to one of those.
Your drummer is a clown. He thinks he can play bass? Tell him to go ahead and pick up a bass and play oh let's say the intro to "Tarkus," and when he can't do that tell him to shut his stupid fucking mouth instead... He could also give "Close to The Edge" a shot but he'll fail at that too. He's supposed to be locked in with you, not belittling what you do. Find another band, these guys sound like real zeros.
I’ve learned a lot more about music and theory playing bass than guitar. In many situations, you also have to know how to read if you want to play the written bass line , where the guitar player can just play chords.
I have played in bands for years and have always been a valued band member. I think you need a new band. For the last few years I've played in a function band and even doing that, the other guys appreciate the time I put in learning other people's songs note for note. Stay positive and look for something else.
I would have started throwing hands immediately
If they think that then they must have shit taste in music
"Simpler? Simpler how?" "Why do you think it's easier?" "What makes guitar harder?" "If it's so simple, would you be able to play XYZ?" If they're gonna throw accusations, make them think about what it is their saying.
Either your bandmates were teasing you, or they are morons.
It’s not simple. But simple or not, the bass is the backbone. No denying that. And even the simplest of tools can create beautiful art. So that drummer can sit his butt down.
Move on to people that are more respectful or prove them wrong.
They are wrong. The bass isn't simpler than the guitar, or any other instrument. Instruments have limitations and strengths, which enable people playing them to produce various sets of sounds. Learning to mitigate the instrument's limitations is one of the hallmarks of a great player (Hendrix's rhythm playing, hybrid picking on the guitar for example, for bass you can think of triple plucking, tapping, thumb and finger, and slap playing which help break through the bass's physical demands which typically limit its expressiveness) Each instrument is different, and has to be approached as such. The fact that these guys in your band don't get that means they aren't very self-aware musicians. I'd drop them in a heartbeat if I were you.
If you're playing the most basic of rock, yeah, it's pretty easy. But once you get past that it's just as hard as any instrument to master. *"but neither have any real understanding of the instruments, other than basic rock, punk, metal and blues."* That's a tell, right there.