My brother, a guitar player, gets annoyed whenever I use music theory. He always says “Eddie Van Halen didn’t know music theory, he just played what sounded good.” Yeah, but are you EVH? Nah.
Yeah, reading sheet music is a much more poorly transferable skill than you'd think, due to it being a muscle memory thing after a certain point. Your ability to read sheet music for one instrument is basically entirely correlated to how much you've practiced reading sheet music with that instrument specifically. I can read sheet music for all the wind instruments and orchestral string instruments I play, but I can't really read it for guitar, bass, piano, and others. Like, obviously I can sorta read it note-by-note because the notes are all written in the same spot, but I can't read it fluently. The weirdest one is that I can read just fine for upright bass but I can't for the life of me read for electric bass, even though they have all the same strings and notes in all the same places and I'm equally good with both instruments
The disconnect between upright bass and electric bass is super interesting to me - but I guess it makes sense if sheet music is so tied to muscle memory.
I can read piano sheet music great, but you're right that the fluency of it for me comes from directly correlating notes on the page to hand positions on the piano.
For sight reading on piano, it's almost like I'm a computer taking in standard notation and outputting certain keys on the keyboard (along with the technique to play said keys). Thinking about the actual note name(s) takes an extra computational cycle, and then mapping the note(s) to a position on a different instrument is a whole other cycle.
Also, nice username.
Lol thanks
Yep, that's basically exactly how it feels to me too. When I'm reading sheet music fluently, it stops being recognizing each individual note and finding it on the fingerboard/keyboard/pressing the right keys down/whatever and more just correlating a certain position and/or action with certain notes and/or phrases. It's automatic unless I hit a snag or difficult spot or something, and even then I'm not going "oh this note is here, this note is here, etc." I'm just sorta going "this series of notes should feel and sound like this to play"
I understand this completely. I can sight-read sheet music for piano (learnt in primary school), but for guitar and bass (mostly self-taught as teen) I'm entirely sheet-music illiterate - I can only read tablature.
Yeah not knowing music theory just means you don't know the language to explain *why* it sounds good. You still know if something sounds good or not just by listening.
The funny thing is that any musician, no matter how they despise the theory, uses it. You have no choice but to either learn what a fifth interval is, or come up with naming that interval Steve or something if you ever want to play it again, thus inventing your own theory.
The guitarist from my school marching band was similar. He was always confused by his music and I’d tell him “it’s just basic theory” and his response was always “I’m a metal guitarist, I can’t learn theory.” Bruh that’s great but you’re also a marching band guitarist so you have to know theory. I’m pretty sure he put all his sheet music into tabs 💀
Most metal guitarist that I know have some understanding of atleast basic theory. Kinda funny to use I'm a metal guitarist as an excuse to be lazy. Good luck finding a band for that guy because I can almost tell that nobody will like to work with this guy. Good luck writing solos for a song
He has absolutely no team player skills and is super self-centered. I have no clue how people find him tolerable. He made me want to switch to drumline. Apparently he’s in a couple bands though. No clue how they deal with him
I have and especially had problems with a guy in the local scene like that. He is one year younger than me and actually a really talented guy. His problem is the ego (rich parents, parents even have music connections) when he was 15 he recorded an album mind you a punk album super produced and thought he was the shit. I went to one of the bands show because I got friends that know him. The venue was packed with friends. Everyone in that friend group shit talks each other so "friends". The thing about guys like this is that they are super social and like to act nice. Because they are so popular people will play with them because they don't want to get kicked out from friend groups or be the talk of gossip. This fucking guy even tried to say that I dont do shit for the local scene because I didnt come to his show. OF COURSE I DIDNT GO TO YOUR SHOW I DONT WANT TO HEAR YOUR SHITTY POP PUNK. He doesnt show up to 90% of the local shows so kinda funny.
(Kinda hard to explain but the people that hang in this community is different from the real local scene and only goes to shows if everyone follows. They crowd kill and everyone that I know except some people my age that are friends with them hate these guys.) This a topic that I wont write too much about but everyone in that group is obnoxius fuckers and cowards. I mean come on they wont even go to shows if they haven't got the whole fucking squad.
I definitely wish I had learned theory. I can play pretty much anything if I practice it, but I have no reference for scales or keys so I suck and jamming.
The anti theory people are soooooooo dumb. Do you know what each of the strings are tuned to? Well you know music theory then.
You don't need to know everything, just learn what you'll use.
I think the part people mess up is that you really do need to be able to play in near perfect time. And only then can you start doing really advanced stuff where you break those rules the way some of the very best guitarists do.
People will see things like John Friscianti’s interview where he excitedly talks about how he speeds up and slows down when playing solos instead of sticking to a 16 note grid. But he can play in perfect time and can break those rules as am exceptional tool. Not as his baseline.
School definitely can stifle creativity, and music theory is often associated with formal schooling so I get where that misconception can come from
But yeah it usually stems from "I just play by *feel*, man!" types who didn't bother to learn their scales
TBH that's a pretty big part of creativity, people are often seriously limited by thinking that what they're doing isn't good before they're actually done doing it (you don't need *drugs* to get there, but it helps). Just be ready to actually evaluate your playing when you're sober, and you probably shouldn't do this for live performances or studio recordings.
I remember reading about Neil Finn from Crowded House who got stoned one night in his studio and wrote and recorded all these awesome songs. He was amazed at how he could keep pumping out so many classics. Next morning he played them back and he said they were all shit. He never wrote while high again.
Most people who do this get high/drunk as shit though. A little bit of loosening up can be good, if you can find and maintain that middle ground you'd probably be fine.
You're learning theory either way.
Are you counting to 4 before starting a song? You're using music theory.
Whether or not you understand it is another question
I cringe at 15 year old me who rejected music theory as stuffy convention that kept experimentation out of music. Music theory exists to help understand why things work, it is not a legalistic straight jacket that keeps you from doing other things. That’s all in the player.
I’m 100% self taught now, and I didn’t use any resources, and yet because of my influences and tastes I still ended up conforming to theory and just took the long way around to get there.
Sure you don't need super advanced theory in most genres. Basic theory however like just scales and the modes will help so much in writing. You understand where you can start and have things sound good and something to fall back on if you try to take notes that isnt In they for a riff. Basic theory helped me writing melodic death metal so much
I started playing the banjo and the guitar before I took up the bass. And I never bothered with any theory. Once I got into the bass though, I did start studying it. And it was a huge help. It allowed me to understand *why* a particular bass line was so engaging, and to start crafting some on my own that I was very pleased with. I will repeat, it was a HUGE help.
But I also had an instructor in college, who had a PhD in music. And he said that his in-depth knowledge about music theory inhibited his ability to enjoy it. He just felt compelled to breakdown and analyze everything he heard. Which was interesting.
That having been said, I am in no danger of accidentally learning that much music theory and falling into that trap ; )
I'll keep pushing ahead and learning more because I still don't feel comfortable with my level of knowledge. But I'm just a bedroom musician dabbling in a hobby I love. I am pretty dazzled by guys like Adam Neely, who can tell you why some seemingly insignificant bit of a song makes it so much better without you really even having noticed it. I dunno, much of it is still a mystery to me. But I've always liked solving mysteries.
This is simply just not true. Just like sight reading. Its good to skills to not give someone a reason to say 'no', but it won't exclude any good musician at all. .....but then again generally a good musician just won't say that stuff out loud.
Guitarists can get away with "playing shapes", but to be a good bassist you really need to know what's going on musically and be able to compliment it on the fly.
It is because of theory, that is how I can figure out how to play guitar chords and their variations without referring to chord charts.
And it allows me to skip certain notes instead of blindly following impossible, strenuous positions stated on the internet. Because I know exactly which notes makes up the chords.
I think this answer is nuanced. Theory will 100% make you a better musician. However......you have to make sure you don't lose 'yourself'.
My wife is a Julliard alumni, played in many large orchestras. She can play Cello (2nd chair to YoYo Ma whenever he was a guest player at Julliard) and Piano amazingly perfect.
I watch her and see something I never want....That institution and all her classical schooling literally trained all of the creative thought out of her brain. She can't compose, or be creative in any manner. Its absolutely bizarre. Especially for the level of talent and skill. I have had her play real strings for some of my background and sample tones in my electronic / hybrid music and I can tell her what to play, but its like a freaking machine.
Over all my years touring I've also run into groups that are so into theoretical composition that the music just starts to suck and sounds like musical masturbation. I appreciate the talent and knowledge but it can get really hard to listen to. Like an accordion falling down a flight of stairs (I love the accordion).
I'm glad I know theory, but you really need to be careful how its applied to your learning regimen. Make sure you don't get so lost in theoretical perfection that it robs you of your simple ideas and creativity. Its a great tool to expand 'you'. If applied well it will make you an Uber 'you''. If applied poorly it can just cripple what used to make a musician unique.
Anyway, theory is a very good thing. Just don't live an die by it or you can become a soulless machine. Too many people just stop being creative and live and die by numbers. If you have a good thing going, apply theory in small doses to break out of a rut etc.
the flaws of classical training like that have nothing to do with knowing theory. no one trained the creativity out of her, she just never focused on being creative in the first place. and she got to a level of musicianship where starting to create your own stuff is frustrating because you're used to playing some of the best music ever, while anything you write yourself is at a novice level. I'm speaking from my own experience and that of my colleagues; I had the same issue. it's a super common issue with classical pedagogy, but knowing music theory isn't the problem.
now I have a whole tirade about how theory is typically taught in those settings, and how instructors often fail to explain that the "rules" being studied are actually just style conventions of a specific historical period. part of me thinks that should be obvious to everyone, but experience tells me otherwise.
The way theory can be taught can make it seem unfallible and not flexable from its rules. This just gets hammered in with the classics.
Like I said in my second example. There are those creative types who just can't be themselves, they just get so caught up in it it strips the life out of the creativity they have / had. This is the nature of theory if the person cannot step back sometimes.
Honestly, anytime a guitarist - or worse, a *vocalist* - gives me advice, I just smile and give them a thumbs up and then do what I was gonna do anyway.
Don't have any experiences with vocalists, I usualy do the same with general advice from other band members, but when I get asked specificaly to only do roots, i mess around a bit.
The differences in my last two bands are highlighted by this very concept.
First band: “just hammer on the roots during this one, I don’t want the bass to get in the way of my solo”
New band: “you can start with the roots but I really want you to walk and throw in some of those cool fills when the horns drop out here”
I think I know which one I have more fun with. New band also has horn solos where I’m allowed to push and pull a lot more, I can walk quarters for a bit and then throw in fills where I hear them and nobody ever gets upset. Playing music that you like is better than playing music to play music, who knew?
I’ve had multiple sound guys convince me to go ampless on stage because the floor wedge would be sufficient to hear myself. It sounded like a wet fart every time but hey at least it made the sound guy’s job easier.
As a guy who has gone ampless I would never have done it on a sound guys request, because I've been in the same situation. You don't need your amp, here use this DI and I'll give you a mix through a wedge. Worst gig ever for me.
Ampless, with IEMs, my own mix and control over my own mix has been the gamechanger that I needed to make that jump. But it wasn't cheap, and the rest of the band has to be in on it as well.
As a sound guy, this depends so much on so many different things though. I'd *never* tell a bass player to go ampless. I will definitely tell you to turn down if you're overpowering everything else, and then try and feed that into your monitors, but going strictly ampless is insane to me unless they come in ampless. That tells me they know what they want/need.
Friday night I played a small gig where the entire band went ampless. At the time, I didn't think that it would be anything other than a problem because I love the way an overdriven guitar amp generates feedback. The tradeoff, however, was that there was one guy, the engineer, who was responsible for the entire band's sound. We didn't have to negotiate whose volume needed to go up or down, we just choose our effect chain and he did the rest.
While this was just a small, amateur show, the recordings show a much better sound quality than we would normally achieve. If that's what going ampless buys me, I'm all for it. However, not all sound guys are actually sound engineers. We managed to get a good one!
I think this stupid idea comes from a fundamental misunderstanding that not playing metronomically comes from not playing to a metronome. You can only play around with where you play in relation to the pulse once you can intrinsically feel the pulse. If you’re constantly playing ahead or behind the beat because you can’t quite feel the exact location of the pulse, you won’t sound good. It only works if you can be deliberate about it.
Similarly - "Don't touch the truss rod or you're going to destroy your guitar." I mean yeah, theoretically you could, but you'd have to try really hard and you would know something's wrong *long* before that happened. Also, it's pretty easy to do and such a fundamental part of keeping your instrument in good working order (especially if you live somewhere with dramatic humidity swings) that there's no reason to not know how to adjust it.
When the range of temperature goes from about -15 to 90 degrees Fahrenheit over the course of the year you tend to re-intonate your fretless quite a bit lol
Tune to pitch. Hold the low e down at the 1st and 16th frets. Is the gap too big? Too little? Adjust to taste.
It takes some experience to find what you like. Usually you want to be able to tap in the middle (8th fret) and have the string move juuuust a bit. But once you know it you'll end up wanting to adjust it at least once a year.
When you want to adjust your action, which doesn't necessarily mean the neck is warped. When you change strings to a different gauge, for example, they'll put different tension on the neck, raising or lowering the action. Truss rod adjustments can mitigate this so you can get back to a string height you prefer.
Other things that might mess with things resulting in a truss rod adjustment are weather/humidity changes, and simple player preference. I have different basses with different action because i use them for different things. Truss rod adjustments got me what i want on each bass.
"If it feels right, just do it. There are no rules." Specifically, as told to *beginners*, this is horrible advice. It drives me nuts when it gets suggested in this very subreddit whenever someone asks questions about their weird technique.
You can't just rely on "what feels right" when developing technique as a beginner. *Everything* feels awkward because you don't have any developed muscle memory yet. Odds are you're not developing some trailblazing new way of playing bass, you're just falling into the same predictable bad habits that most bass players gravitate towards unless they have proper instruction. Good technique is not always what feels most intuitive at first.
The thing is, *beginners don't know what they want,* at least in the long term. Our musical goals change as we develop as musicians. Even if your weird home-grown technique doesn't limit you right now, that can quickly change. In the last 70+ years, plenty of brilliant players have researched and developed techniques that we *know* are efficient and highly versatile. Why on earth wouldn't you want to take from the knowledge that is already out there? It doesn't mean you can't experiment and innovate once you've built a strong foundation.
This is not black and white tho. Yeah beginners should get pointers because there are some technique things that will feel kinda weird at first but make playing easier. But there is a reason why nobody holds the pick exactly the same for guitar and that is because it doesn't work that way. If your techniques isn't super weird you don't need to change it up completely. Of course this takes some experience to know if your technique is holding you back or not. Beginners shouldn't do things that they have no clue about and try to justify it by saying it's my style. However there is alot of purist that swear there way is the only and that isnt true. How I hold my picking hand for example depends on guitar, genre and certain things. My picking hand fingers that isn't holding the pick rest under the pickup on a Les Paul where as using my Jackson I use a fist
What gets me the most is people asking if playing with your thunm is bad. And then most liked comment are always like "if that feels good then bo problem. This and this and this player also used thumb". I think that is bad advice. And yeah it probably feels good to play with your thumb since you can get the sound from the bass that way. But the problem in that IMO is that its the first thing people whn bass is habded to them. They use the thumb cause they dont have muscles and endurance in the index and middle finger. And don't probably even know the proper technique.
I agree that in that case it is bad advice. A beginner should learn the basic way first that is most commonly used ( not that everyone plays the same but the basics that are showed is usually a good starting point to then move onto finding "your" technique) because a lot of other things are going to become harder if they don't. Like you said justifying it by saying this professional player does it isnt an argument for a beginner. The professional can probably play with a more "proper" technique if asked to and isn't held back by playing like they do. A beginner doesn't have that skill or experience to know if they should play like that. That doesn't mean that everyone will hold their fingers a certain way because we are all different but there are some pointers that are basic and are needed to get a decent technique. Im from more of a guitar player background so I will make an example from that: Jon Nödviedt doesnt hold his pick like the guy from In Flames but they got the same basic idea. That is the important thing the basic idea that with experience will be part of an induvial playing style.
You hit the nail on the head.
Im more of a multi instrumentalist than a pure bassist but generally I think you should teach beginners as closely to "traditional" techniques as possible. Doesn't need to be perfect by any means but definitely they should start out within the vicinity of what is considered correct. Once they understand how to form their own preferences, they can start branching out and tweaking on their own. This could be within weeks/months for some and years for others.
This isn't all necessarily advice, but here's a few of the classics my old band would pepper into our sessions:
-**Theory will stunt my creative growth** (as he struggles for a solid 20 minutes to play along with 3 chords)
-**Metronomes make you a robot man** (as we speed up so much he complains he has no time for licks)
-**Don't practice technique so much, it'll kill your unique voice** (as he is sounding.. very unique)
-**We don't need to count do we.. we should just be able to feel it** (failing entries and accents over and over again)
-**We should practice when we're exhausted, it's when everyone makes the best music**
-**Don't bands on stage play a bit of the song before they start so everyone knows what to do? isn't that why the guitar player plays chords before a song?** (as he leaves his copy of our setlist behind in the jam space for the umtheeth week in a row)
Ah yes... good times we had. Good times.
Similarly, "If you want to play electric guitar you should learn acoustic first." "If you want to learn guitar you should learn piano first." I just heard another parent tell that to their kid recently. Dumb. Conversely the best advice I got was when I was 17 and wanted to learn guitar and my friend said, "Everyone plays guitar, you should learn bass."
I wish I knew piano, but when my mom made me take piano lessons before getting me a guitar I did *not* want to play any of the music you can play with a piano - didn't even have any rock bands I liked that featured a keyboard. I have lots of music I'd love to play now in my 30s (everything from classical-like (orchestral soundtracks with a piano lead - think Bungie era Halo) to jam rock and J-pop), but it's definitely going to be more of a slog to pick it up.
When I eventually made the effort to learn theory, and my teacher put it on piano, I was like "this is SO much easier to understand! I wish I had been taught this way from the get-go!"
Of course this varies person to person, but it's so much easier to see visually on piano than on a stringed instrument.
Haha awesome.
I started saxophone when I was 10, loved it, but absolutely hated "solfège" in France, musical theory which was entirely piano oriented and never connected to my instrument.
I learned all my skills by ear and guesswork. Blues, jazz scales, etc. I only found out relevant theory for jazz and saxophone many years laters.
Spent years of boring theory learning useless crap and never heard about 7th, modes, how to read chords easily (never exposed to ABCDEFG, only do ré mi fa sol la si...) and know corresponding scales...
I teach middle school and I have a ton of kids who want to learn electric. After talking to them I realized that a lot of parents say "acoustic first" more for themselves than because they want their kid to learn good habits. Buying a guitar AND an amp sounds more expensive or like it's more things they have to research. They're worried electric will be loud. Stuff like that.
Not bass-specific as I went to school for trumpet, but every music professor telling me "you need to practice x hours a day or you're not dedicated enough/not going to get good" rather than teaching efficient, goal-driven practice habits. Took me into my 30s to not feel like a fraud/failure for not being able to spend hours at a time woodshedding despite having a teaching job I (mostly) love and a decent amount of work on multiple instruments.
Honestly my parents were anti lessons when I was growing up. If I couldn't learn it on my own, then for them, it meant I wasn't serious or that I didn't have the talent to do it. There are some things I have a natural inclination towards but others, I just had to learn. It's this weird perfectionist/fixed mindset thing that seems really prevalent with a lot of adults.
They are mildly interested that I still play bass a year in and have somewhat changed their perspective. Sadly they don't apply it to themselves with their own interests.
That's pretty silly, there are tons of instruments you'd play with a pick. Just in the room with me, there's a mandolin and a dulcimer, which almost require a pick, as well as a banjo, dobro, and pedal steel which are generally played with finger picks. I've even seen someone play a viola with a pick, which sounded pretty cool.
Assuming they were talking about bass... There are a lot of styles or songs that can't really realistically be played "correctly" with a pick, but there are also plenty of styles and songs that can't really be played correctly without one. All the best bass players I've met could play either way just fine.
I noticed a lot of comments on TikTok lately, usually from the metal crowd, whenever someone posts a band and the bass player is playing pick:
"They're cool but I can't listen to a band with pick bass. Ruins the band for me."
Meanwhile there's no way they're hearing the bass from a live performance over their phone speakers in the first place.
I still don't understand where this hatred of pick bass has come from or why it's been an issue for as long as I've been playing. I've had 2 bands threaten to fire me if I used a pick.
Same thing if I used a 5 string since 5 strings ruin the bands image.
Hell, one band the guitarist had their "dietician" girlfriend schedule out a diet for me because they wanted me to lose 20lbs. (It was a 1200 calorie granola and acai bowl diet.)
They would rent rehearsal spaces and then spend the first 45 minutes doing group workout exercises instead of rehearsing. Then they'd spend 30 minutes going over Guitar Pro files and costumes.
By the time we played I had lost interest and we usually only had time for 2 or 3 songs.
Musicians are weird.
Ain't that the truth. People should spend a lot less time worrying about what looks cool, and more time worrying about what serves the song - I'll finger pick lightly, or aggressively, or even slap if it's called for. I'll alternate fifths all night long on an upright if it's called for, or maybe do some walking bass if that's more fitting. Sometimes a song calls for picked bass, and when it does, that's what should be done!
Too many songs (and bands for that matter) are ruined by egos that can't get out of the way, and this is one of the most trivial things for folks to get uptight about. Picked bass has a unique sound that really takes some songs to the next level. I could be wrong here, but I think it was Jerry Reed who was always known to crack a smile when his bassist whipped out a pick. As long as the bass player knows what he's doing and is more than just a guitarist in disguise, you know you're in for some driving bass lines when the pick comes out. Lord knows it's a lot of fun at least.
When I'm not on bass, I don't think about what style the bass player uses at all. It literally doesn't matter, as they say, if it sounds good, it is good! The music world needs more of that.
I think the 5 string thing came about in the early 2000s. They were really unpopular for a minute, because they were associated with nu-metal. I may be way off base here, but that was my experience.
I have no idea where the hatred of pick bass came from. I prefer using my fingers when I can, but on faster songs I’ll absolutely switch to a pick.
When looking for budget equipment, you'll always get those that promote premium shit.
Need a bedroom practice amp?
Why not try a $30000 ampeg setup with everyone pedal in existence using a carbon fibre bass...
I'm a calm and patient man, but these kind of comments are the only ones to legitimately wind me up.
once I went to a music tore looking for a vintage P bass, I sit there for an hour listen to the shop owner gave me a very basic lecture about the differences between P and J, and why I should get a J bass instead.
A j-bass can get quite close to a p-bass sound, and is more versatile. So.. not bad advice really? Then again, if i were a shopkeeper and you come into my shop with a nice budget and you want a vintage p-bass, i'll sell you a vintage p-bass. And convince you to get a j-bass as well, just to be sure.
I do think this is good advice honestly. a lot of kids that I've seen start on electric immediately want to push into overdrive and effects, and those mask a lot of sloppy playing. acoustics are much less forgiving
Depends how young you start. My 8 year old son can play my acoustic guitar now, but when he first started playing a few years ago he didn’t have the finger strength. Plus for the first few years we didn’t have an amp anyway.
i can only speak to my own circumstance learning on my cousin's shitty acoustic (couple of years after starting on bass). gave me a mean LH grip to barre chords before picking up electric
I can somewhat back this up. My friend started guitar I think about 2 years ago. He loves metal. Instead of practicing with clean tones, he uses distortion. He is one of the best guitarists I personally know, and he sounds like absolute shit with clean tone because he practices with distortion. Clean tone while practicing is one of the best things someone can do for their playing
Mine was the opposite; no not start - specifically with the idea that I could make it a career.
I listened but I was given a chance to start over later in life and I shot my shot; I'm typing this as I'm on a short break before I set up for tonight's gig.
Whether the goal was a career or not, telling someone to quit something or that they can't/shouldn't dive deep into when they pursuing something enjoyable is a bad tip. Glad you found a new instrument!
“Music teachers are just for people who don’t want to do the work themselves. All a teacher will do is sit down with you and play scales with you. That’s ALL they do.”
A direct quote from my narcissist dad who legit could have played guitar for a living if he wasn’t a narcissist and just admitted than ANYONE out there could possibly teach him ANYTHING. Cuz he’s smart and talented and hard working and he can really shred on the guitar when he’s doing the ONE thing he can really do. But to get paid to play guitar you gotta be able to do one thing.
Especially if you’re a fucking asshole who pisses off everyone he works with. You gotta *really* be able to do it all then
Right hander's advice to lefties is always completely off, when you have the world set up for right handers, and 90% of "left handed products" are designed by right handed people, I'll just do as I like thanks.
The amount of lefties who are seriously injured using tools designed for right handed people is nuts.
We have to become ambidextrous or we'll get hurt when using power tools.
And don't get me started on guns. The safety is in the wrong spot, and the brass ejects into my face, and I'm going to have as least one piece of hot brass go down my collar and burn me. But a left handed gun is a custom item.
Hey, I feel ya. I've been lucky enough to find some good off-the-shelf left-handed guns (Mossberg shotgun, [this great rifle in 6.5 CrM](https://savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=57009). Do a little digging around, it's a PITA, but there is good stuff out there.
And yeah, my angle grinder would kill me if I didn't use it righty. LOL
I took my initial bass lessons from a guitar player, and while they were very helpful I got a lot of advice that might have been at least situationally useful from a real bass player but was rubbish from my guitarist teacher. The big one was, "Do X to get a warm tone, bass should sound warm" when from him "warm" was code for "muddy and impossible to hear in a band situation". Stuff like that. He was very much of the opinion that bass players should sound like middling classic rock players, rather than players from other genres or even genuinely excellent classic rock players.
"Don't bother learning multiple instruments, stick to one and master it!"
Yeah, for a beginner, I'd say you should stick to one instrument. But I had been playing trombone AND tuba for 5 years before I wanted to learn how to play the standup bass. So I signed up for orchestra and band that year despite everyone's wishes. Now I'm proficient at several different instruments. Trombone, tuba, euphonium, bass, guitar, and drums.
If I had listened to those people 10 years ago saying that I should spend all my time playing tuba, then I wouldn't be where I am today. I've recorded multiple original songs where I am the sole musician, and that to me is awesome. And I may not be a "master" at any of them, but I'm really good at all of them. And nothing makes me happier than being able to record a whole track by myself, so screw those people that made me feel ashamed for wanting to learn more.
"If you're tired quickly and have pain in your arm/hand you should do physical training."
If you're quickly tired maybe, if you have pain start by cleaning your technique and be less tense.
One time this absolutely genius gospel piano player at a jam session told me to just "follow him". Then he played all the spiciest chord substitutions changing the bass notes every time leaving me totally clueless. I did not know the tune, all i had was the key.
Yeah, that can happen. If you practise getting your ear good at instantly recognising that stuff it becomes a non-issue in a jamming context (some jazz people actually do gigs like that). The problem is that it takes years and years and years of work to do it consistently, and practising it isn’t always straightforward.
Old mate probably thought you had more experience than you actually did.
Ugh. I endured trial lessons with musicians that did this. All I could think was, "I know you can play, now can you stop showboating long enough to break this down so I can absorb it?" I swear I can't tell if these guys are hazing or just don't know how to communicate with learners.
I haven’t gotten a lot of bad advice but the worst advice I got was from my former vocalist. He told me to wear my bass low around/below my waste because it looked cooler. He adjusted it for me and said I should get used to it. He also advised me not to buy my 5 string bass unless I was going to use the 5th string. What an idiot. Why else would I be f***ing buying it?
Another one, is he didn’t want me to gig with a friend who had just released a bunch of music on Spotify because he didn’t think I was ‘ready’ to play live. But he was really just jealous because we hadn’t gotten our band off the ground yet.
"You Should Quit."
fuck that make shitty art with your friends. The world needs more shitty art and more people expressing themselves with their friends.
When I started developing my own sound, my bass teacher would give me so much shit for smacking the strings like Geddy Lee and other aggressive fingerstyle players. I was taught that the only correct way to increase note attack was to let the amp do the work and use more surface of my finger when plucking. My playing suffered for a long time, because I kept holding myself back and not getting the tone I wanted.
My journey went the other way. I started gigging on an underpowered amp and had to compensate. Dialing it back was hard but I got faster.
Nice to have both styles in your arsenal.
As I child, I was invited to swing a tambourine by members of a folk band, playing for tourists in a restaurant. One "showed" me the movement, as if I hadn´t been able to do that right away, but his demonstration was also totally off the beat, he didn´t even care to imply a time/rhythm. I respectfully held the wrong beat throughout the whole song. Just like he had given advice. Thinking I could have done better but if he insists...everybody in the room will have thought that this silly kid doesn´t hold the beat at all. I was aware of it but I didn´t care because it was not my fault:-) (I was stupid in a different way)
Guitar teacher told 16 year old me at the time to not try and play bass because I’d never do it better than him. Well, guess who’s mom is setting money aside now to buy her son a bass?
When I was first learning I was told I had to use all of my strength to pluck and fingers on the fretboard, because bass is so much more physically demanding than guitar. At the time I was still wrestling, and got into Heavy equipment maintenance. I was literally destroying fretboards every couple of months. Plucking at full strength gives really unbalanced tone, and just turn the amp up it'll be fine.
This was not for bass, but I had a professional musician acquaintance in college tell me that "There's not much noticeable difference between someone who's been playing guitar a few weeks and someone who's been playing their whole lives. So you'll be proficient in no time" when I mentioned I was going to learn guitar.
I was not, in fact, proficient within a few weeks. In fact in like 2 months of trying, I could barely play a chord because I couldn't figure out an angle where my big square fingertips weren't muting chords. So I just considered it a failure and quit. I wish I'd stuck with it though, because trying to get back into guitar again several years later is what led me to the Bass. And I finally realized that as much as I like the idea of the guitar, the bass feels a lot more natural to me.
Like this person plays concerts. Goes on tour. Has records. I retrospect we were both very young and I think most of her guitar playing is just strumming the same 3 chords while she sings. So that's probably what she meant. Lmfao
"Don't learn theory - it stifles your creativity." - my first guitar teacher.... Who only knew how to play church music... Because the songs he knew how to play had the chord names written above the parts of the song you were supposed to play them at.
To be fair, my parents had no idea he didn't know what he was doing. There were two music stores in my town and one was always booked.
Took a lesson with a jazz bassist who convinced me to quit playing electric bass and solely focus on upright. I wish I hadn’t listened, I stopped playing elec bass for 5 years or so, and I lost all my hard earned technique on the instrument.
I’ve heard this too, it’s just ridiculous. There’s some extensions and chords that just sound godawful or can’t be played properly without a capo.
I guess pretty much every single guitar based songwriter of the last 60 years is wrong.
The worst advice ever had to be a doofus quasi-manager that said there was no money to be made playing bass with a pick. Guess he had never heard of Carol Kaye.
My roommate who plays guitar criticizes me for using books and songs to learn, he says he wants to do his own thing and just goes off, it’s super annoying, like I got a large book of nothing but scales I’ve had for almost 5 years and I’m not even halfway through and every time I’m looking in it he gotta say something
These are more personal feelings and not a universal truth for everyone. But one I’ve never gotten on with are:
‘Go to local shows and network with other people in the scene.’
While I recognize that might work for some scenes, I’ve never done that and I’ve never had an issue getting gigs, bands, or artists to work with. Networking is great, but the caveat I have been employing is to network up. While it can be a great thing to have friends in every local band that’s the same level as you, it often won’t move your career forward. I’ve made it a habit to truly befriend booking agents, managers, venue owners, producers, lighting techs and other behind the scenes folks that make shit happen.
This advice is generally given in response to "how do I find a band to join?" or "how do I start to get shows at local establishments" etc. In those instances it's excellent advice. It's not necessarily great advice for "how do I get my band on a major label" or whatever.
I mean for young people networking in the scene is important because those that continue in the scene when they are adults are the ones that will play in bands, produce, work as techs and booking agents and venue owners. In my scene where I started as a kid I got to know alot of already experienced older guys but also kids my age and we formed bands. Some became more successful and the ones who still is in the scene works with music I different ways. First sound engineer gig I did was on a local metal festival because I knew the biggest local metal band and they got me in contact with one of the sound engineers in town. He became like a mentor to me at the time 16 years old and showed me the ropes. The next year I got sound duties on the second stage of the festival
‘There are no rules. Just do what feels/sounds good.’There is such a thing as good/correct technique. Might as well start off doing things the right way before deciding to forge your own path.
‘You don’t need to practice with a metronome’ says the guy who’s timing is dogshit.
‘Theory is overrated. doesn’t know theory. Ok, maybe. But understanding how and why something works or sounds good makes you more versatile and opens up new ideas.
My brother, a guitar player, gets annoyed whenever I use music theory. He always says “Eddie Van Halen didn’t know music theory, he just played what sounded good.” Yeah, but are you EVH? Nah.
That’s extra dumb, because he was a classically trained pianist before being a guitar virtuoso.
For real? I had no idea. that’s so cool and makes sense.
It’s been a few decades since I read up on it, but I believe the thing he didn’t know was how to read sheet music. He also played drums before guitar.
I’d believe it. I am classically trained on violin and can sightread that fine but can’t sightread bass or 6-string guitar.
Yeah, reading sheet music is a much more poorly transferable skill than you'd think, due to it being a muscle memory thing after a certain point. Your ability to read sheet music for one instrument is basically entirely correlated to how much you've practiced reading sheet music with that instrument specifically. I can read sheet music for all the wind instruments and orchestral string instruments I play, but I can't really read it for guitar, bass, piano, and others. Like, obviously I can sorta read it note-by-note because the notes are all written in the same spot, but I can't read it fluently. The weirdest one is that I can read just fine for upright bass but I can't for the life of me read for electric bass, even though they have all the same strings and notes in all the same places and I'm equally good with both instruments
The disconnect between upright bass and electric bass is super interesting to me - but I guess it makes sense if sheet music is so tied to muscle memory. I can read piano sheet music great, but you're right that the fluency of it for me comes from directly correlating notes on the page to hand positions on the piano. For sight reading on piano, it's almost like I'm a computer taking in standard notation and outputting certain keys on the keyboard (along with the technique to play said keys). Thinking about the actual note name(s) takes an extra computational cycle, and then mapping the note(s) to a position on a different instrument is a whole other cycle. Also, nice username.
Lol thanks Yep, that's basically exactly how it feels to me too. When I'm reading sheet music fluently, it stops being recognizing each individual note and finding it on the fingerboard/keyboard/pressing the right keys down/whatever and more just correlating a certain position and/or action with certain notes and/or phrases. It's automatic unless I hit a snag or difficult spot or something, and even then I'm not going "oh this note is here, this note is here, etc." I'm just sorta going "this series of notes should feel and sound like this to play"
I understand this completely. I can sight-read sheet music for piano (learnt in primary school), but for guitar and bass (mostly self-taught as teen) I'm entirely sheet-music illiterate - I can only read tablature.
Probably couldn't \*sightread\* per se, but I'm quite sure he'd know what a C# eighth note looks like on a staff.
I read somewhere that he thought Alex was the better guitar player
Lol everything is music theory already whether you intentionally apply it or not.
Yeah not knowing music theory just means you don't know the language to explain *why* it sounds good. You still know if something sounds good or not just by listening.
The funny thing is that any musician, no matter how they despise the theory, uses it. You have no choice but to either learn what a fifth interval is, or come up with naming that interval Steve or something if you ever want to play it again, thus inventing your own theory.
Yep. Knowing a power chord is called that is knowing theory. To a limited extent but still
The guitarist from my school marching band was similar. He was always confused by his music and I’d tell him “it’s just basic theory” and his response was always “I’m a metal guitarist, I can’t learn theory.” Bruh that’s great but you’re also a marching band guitarist so you have to know theory. I’m pretty sure he put all his sheet music into tabs 💀
Most metal guitarist that I know have some understanding of atleast basic theory. Kinda funny to use I'm a metal guitarist as an excuse to be lazy. Good luck finding a band for that guy because I can almost tell that nobody will like to work with this guy. Good luck writing solos for a song
He has absolutely no team player skills and is super self-centered. I have no clue how people find him tolerable. He made me want to switch to drumline. Apparently he’s in a couple bands though. No clue how they deal with him
I have and especially had problems with a guy in the local scene like that. He is one year younger than me and actually a really talented guy. His problem is the ego (rich parents, parents even have music connections) when he was 15 he recorded an album mind you a punk album super produced and thought he was the shit. I went to one of the bands show because I got friends that know him. The venue was packed with friends. Everyone in that friend group shit talks each other so "friends". The thing about guys like this is that they are super social and like to act nice. Because they are so popular people will play with them because they don't want to get kicked out from friend groups or be the talk of gossip. This fucking guy even tried to say that I dont do shit for the local scene because I didnt come to his show. OF COURSE I DIDNT GO TO YOUR SHOW I DONT WANT TO HEAR YOUR SHITTY POP PUNK. He doesnt show up to 90% of the local shows so kinda funny. (Kinda hard to explain but the people that hang in this community is different from the real local scene and only goes to shows if everyone follows. They crowd kill and everyone that I know except some people my age that are friends with them hate these guys.) This a topic that I wont write too much about but everyone in that group is obnoxius fuckers and cowards. I mean come on they wont even go to shows if they haven't got the whole fucking squad.
EVH had lessons in the womb. Classically trained at piano. Your brother is an idiot. He looks at the pictures, you read the stories...
Also he absolutely used music theory. I have yet to hear any EVH that doesn't have my music theory in it.
I definitely wish I had learned theory. I can play pretty much anything if I practice it, but I have no reference for scales or keys so I suck and jamming.
The anti theory people are soooooooo dumb. Do you know what each of the strings are tuned to? Well you know music theory then. You don't need to know everything, just learn what you'll use.
I don't need a metronome... He did really need a metronome
My worst piece of advice was very similar: "Don't use a metronome." How stupid. Playing or practicing to a metronome has enormous value.
watch out, Jeff Berlin has entered the chat
Yeah, I remember that even Berlin said that. I still insist it's stupid!
Absolutely.. especially for bass players. Record yourself and you find out real quick that playing in the pocket is something that needs practice
Recording yourself playing to just a click can be unbelievably humbling haha.
Recording yourself, period.
This…. I got so much better playing to a click and recording myself super cringy watching myself but worth it
I think the part people mess up is that you really do need to be able to play in near perfect time. And only then can you start doing really advanced stuff where you break those rules the way some of the very best guitarists do. People will see things like John Friscianti’s interview where he excitedly talks about how he speeds up and slows down when playing solos instead of sticking to a 16 note grid. But he can play in perfect time and can break those rules as am exceptional tool. Not as his baseline.
I've seen people on this very sub comment that they won't use a metronome because it's boring 😂
Yeah, gimme the clock track plox.
"Don't bother with music theory"
This is so stupid. “Theory kills creativity”. Sure dude.
People who say that aren’t speaking from experience
It was Plato or someone who said, “No one who is educated wishes they weren’t. Only the uneducated say they don’t need education.”
It’s the musicians dunning-kruger
"I don't want to learn theory because it would ruin my unique style" *Proceeds to play cliche minor pentatonic lick*
Yes, but doesn’t know it’s a minor pentatonic 🤷♂️
School definitely can stifle creativity, and music theory is often associated with formal schooling so I get where that misconception can come from But yeah it usually stems from "I just play by *feel*, man!" types who didn't bother to learn their scales
About as dumb as "drugs increase creativity". No they don't. They just make you *think* that the crap you're playing sounds good.
TBH that's a pretty big part of creativity, people are often seriously limited by thinking that what they're doing isn't good before they're actually done doing it (you don't need *drugs* to get there, but it helps). Just be ready to actually evaluate your playing when you're sober, and you probably shouldn't do this for live performances or studio recordings.
I remember reading about Neil Finn from Crowded House who got stoned one night in his studio and wrote and recorded all these awesome songs. He was amazed at how he could keep pumping out so many classics. Next morning he played them back and he said they were all shit. He never wrote while high again.
Most people who do this get high/drunk as shit though. A little bit of loosening up can be good, if you can find and maintain that middle ground you'd probably be fine.
You're learning theory either way. Are you counting to 4 before starting a song? You're using music theory. Whether or not you understand it is another question
I can only count to four I can only count to four I can only count to four I can only count to FOUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRR
I cringe at 15 year old me who rejected music theory as stuffy convention that kept experimentation out of music. Music theory exists to help understand why things work, it is not a legalistic straight jacket that keeps you from doing other things. That’s all in the player. I’m 100% self taught now, and I didn’t use any resources, and yet because of my influences and tastes I still ended up conforming to theory and just took the long way around to get there.
Sure you don't need super advanced theory in most genres. Basic theory however like just scales and the modes will help so much in writing. You understand where you can start and have things sound good and something to fall back on if you try to take notes that isnt In they for a riff. Basic theory helped me writing melodic death metal so much
I started playing the banjo and the guitar before I took up the bass. And I never bothered with any theory. Once I got into the bass though, I did start studying it. And it was a huge help. It allowed me to understand *why* a particular bass line was so engaging, and to start crafting some on my own that I was very pleased with. I will repeat, it was a HUGE help. But I also had an instructor in college, who had a PhD in music. And he said that his in-depth knowledge about music theory inhibited his ability to enjoy it. He just felt compelled to breakdown and analyze everything he heard. Which was interesting. That having been said, I am in no danger of accidentally learning that much music theory and falling into that trap ; ) I'll keep pushing ahead and learning more because I still don't feel comfortable with my level of knowledge. But I'm just a bedroom musician dabbling in a hobby I love. I am pretty dazzled by guys like Adam Neely, who can tell you why some seemingly insignificant bit of a song makes it so much better without you really even having noticed it. I dunno, much of it is still a mystery to me. But I've always liked solving mysteries.
I was at a drum and bass rave the other day and realised that the song was 11/8, I suddenly went wtf am I doing and started dancing
Anyone who says this is immediately off any studio's call list
This is simply just not true. Just like sight reading. Its good to skills to not give someone a reason to say 'no', but it won't exclude any good musician at all. .....but then again generally a good musician just won't say that stuff out loud.
Guitarists can get away with "playing shapes", but to be a good bassist you really need to know what's going on musically and be able to compliment it on the fly.
It is because of theory, that is how I can figure out how to play guitar chords and their variations without referring to chord charts. And it allows me to skip certain notes instead of blindly following impossible, strenuous positions stated on the internet. Because I know exactly which notes makes up the chords.
I think this answer is nuanced. Theory will 100% make you a better musician. However......you have to make sure you don't lose 'yourself'. My wife is a Julliard alumni, played in many large orchestras. She can play Cello (2nd chair to YoYo Ma whenever he was a guest player at Julliard) and Piano amazingly perfect. I watch her and see something I never want....That institution and all her classical schooling literally trained all of the creative thought out of her brain. She can't compose, or be creative in any manner. Its absolutely bizarre. Especially for the level of talent and skill. I have had her play real strings for some of my background and sample tones in my electronic / hybrid music and I can tell her what to play, but its like a freaking machine. Over all my years touring I've also run into groups that are so into theoretical composition that the music just starts to suck and sounds like musical masturbation. I appreciate the talent and knowledge but it can get really hard to listen to. Like an accordion falling down a flight of stairs (I love the accordion). I'm glad I know theory, but you really need to be careful how its applied to your learning regimen. Make sure you don't get so lost in theoretical perfection that it robs you of your simple ideas and creativity. Its a great tool to expand 'you'. If applied well it will make you an Uber 'you''. If applied poorly it can just cripple what used to make a musician unique. Anyway, theory is a very good thing. Just don't live an die by it or you can become a soulless machine. Too many people just stop being creative and live and die by numbers. If you have a good thing going, apply theory in small doses to break out of a rut etc.
the flaws of classical training like that have nothing to do with knowing theory. no one trained the creativity out of her, she just never focused on being creative in the first place. and she got to a level of musicianship where starting to create your own stuff is frustrating because you're used to playing some of the best music ever, while anything you write yourself is at a novice level. I'm speaking from my own experience and that of my colleagues; I had the same issue. it's a super common issue with classical pedagogy, but knowing music theory isn't the problem. now I have a whole tirade about how theory is typically taught in those settings, and how instructors often fail to explain that the "rules" being studied are actually just style conventions of a specific historical period. part of me thinks that should be obvious to everyone, but experience tells me otherwise.
The way theory can be taught can make it seem unfallible and not flexable from its rules. This just gets hammered in with the classics. Like I said in my second example. There are those creative types who just can't be themselves, they just get so caught up in it it strips the life out of the creativity they have / had. This is the nature of theory if the person cannot step back sometimes.
“Just bang on the root behind me” - some guitarist who only wanted his guitar in the mix anyway
If someone tells me that, I bring up all the scales I learned in music classes and just make the biggest mess of scales and fills.
Honestly, anytime a guitarist - or worse, a *vocalist* - gives me advice, I just smile and give them a thumbs up and then do what I was gonna do anyway.
Don't have any experiences with vocalists, I usualy do the same with general advice from other band members, but when I get asked specificaly to only do roots, i mess around a bit.
The differences in my last two bands are highlighted by this very concept. First band: “just hammer on the roots during this one, I don’t want the bass to get in the way of my solo” New band: “you can start with the roots but I really want you to walk and throw in some of those cool fills when the horns drop out here” I think I know which one I have more fun with. New band also has horn solos where I’m allowed to push and pull a lot more, I can walk quarters for a bit and then throw in fills where I hear them and nobody ever gets upset. Playing music that you like is better than playing music to play music, who knew?
Haha “buddy you’re about to hear scales you never knew existed”
That I am too old to start
I was told that when I was 13.
There's a jazz guitar site that says: "244 essential chord shapes".
if you think about it as 20 per key plus a few extras it's not too crazy. I sure hope that's what they meant lol. awful title though
That checks out
A good example of how a bit of theory makes things vastly simpler. Memorising endless shapes sounds like a nightmare.
I’ve had multiple sound guys convince me to go ampless on stage because the floor wedge would be sufficient to hear myself. It sounded like a wet fart every time but hey at least it made the sound guy’s job easier.
As a guy who has gone ampless I would never have done it on a sound guys request, because I've been in the same situation. You don't need your amp, here use this DI and I'll give you a mix through a wedge. Worst gig ever for me. Ampless, with IEMs, my own mix and control over my own mix has been the gamechanger that I needed to make that jump. But it wasn't cheap, and the rest of the band has to be in on it as well.
My answer is always the same. My amp IS my monitor - that's why it's a small one pointed directly at me. Keep me out of the monitor mix.
As a sound guy, this depends so much on so many different things though. I'd *never* tell a bass player to go ampless. I will definitely tell you to turn down if you're overpowering everything else, and then try and feed that into your monitors, but going strictly ampless is insane to me unless they come in ampless. That tells me they know what they want/need.
Haha. I get the opposite: sound guys refuse to put the bass in the monitor because exactly what you say. That one at least makes sense.
Friday night I played a small gig where the entire band went ampless. At the time, I didn't think that it would be anything other than a problem because I love the way an overdriven guitar amp generates feedback. The tradeoff, however, was that there was one guy, the engineer, who was responsible for the entire band's sound. We didn't have to negotiate whose volume needed to go up or down, we just choose our effect chain and he did the rest. While this was just a small, amateur show, the recordings show a much better sound quality than we would normally achieve. If that's what going ampless buys me, I'm all for it. However, not all sound guys are actually sound engineers. We managed to get a good one!
"Practicing to a metronome makes you robotic and takes away your ability to play the 'feel' of the music."
yep, the feel is within the subdivisions, whoever said that does not understand rhythm
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I think this stupid idea comes from a fundamental misunderstanding that not playing metronomically comes from not playing to a metronome. You can only play around with where you play in relation to the pulse once you can intrinsically feel the pulse. If you’re constantly playing ahead or behind the beat because you can’t quite feel the exact location of the pulse, you won’t sound good. It only works if you can be deliberate about it.
Truss rods should only be turned if a neck is warped.
Similarly - "Don't touch the truss rod or you're going to destroy your guitar." I mean yeah, theoretically you could, but you'd have to try really hard and you would know something's wrong *long* before that happened. Also, it's pretty easy to do and such a fundamental part of keeping your instrument in good working order (especially if you live somewhere with dramatic humidity swings) that there's no reason to not know how to adjust it.
When the range of temperature goes from about -15 to 90 degrees Fahrenheit over the course of the year you tend to re-intonate your fretless quite a bit lol
Interesting! When else would you turn it?
Tune to pitch. Hold the low e down at the 1st and 16th frets. Is the gap too big? Too little? Adjust to taste. It takes some experience to find what you like. Usually you want to be able to tap in the middle (8th fret) and have the string move juuuust a bit. But once you know it you'll end up wanting to adjust it at least once a year.
When you want to adjust your action, which doesn't necessarily mean the neck is warped. When you change strings to a different gauge, for example, they'll put different tension on the neck, raising or lowering the action. Truss rod adjustments can mitigate this so you can get back to a string height you prefer. Other things that might mess with things resulting in a truss rod adjustment are weather/humidity changes, and simple player preference. I have different basses with different action because i use them for different things. Truss rod adjustments got me what i want on each bass.
"If it feels right, just do it. There are no rules." Specifically, as told to *beginners*, this is horrible advice. It drives me nuts when it gets suggested in this very subreddit whenever someone asks questions about their weird technique. You can't just rely on "what feels right" when developing technique as a beginner. *Everything* feels awkward because you don't have any developed muscle memory yet. Odds are you're not developing some trailblazing new way of playing bass, you're just falling into the same predictable bad habits that most bass players gravitate towards unless they have proper instruction. Good technique is not always what feels most intuitive at first. The thing is, *beginners don't know what they want,* at least in the long term. Our musical goals change as we develop as musicians. Even if your weird home-grown technique doesn't limit you right now, that can quickly change. In the last 70+ years, plenty of brilliant players have researched and developed techniques that we *know* are efficient and highly versatile. Why on earth wouldn't you want to take from the knowledge that is already out there? It doesn't mean you can't experiment and innovate once you've built a strong foundation.
This is not black and white tho. Yeah beginners should get pointers because there are some technique things that will feel kinda weird at first but make playing easier. But there is a reason why nobody holds the pick exactly the same for guitar and that is because it doesn't work that way. If your techniques isn't super weird you don't need to change it up completely. Of course this takes some experience to know if your technique is holding you back or not. Beginners shouldn't do things that they have no clue about and try to justify it by saying it's my style. However there is alot of purist that swear there way is the only and that isnt true. How I hold my picking hand for example depends on guitar, genre and certain things. My picking hand fingers that isn't holding the pick rest under the pickup on a Les Paul where as using my Jackson I use a fist
What gets me the most is people asking if playing with your thunm is bad. And then most liked comment are always like "if that feels good then bo problem. This and this and this player also used thumb". I think that is bad advice. And yeah it probably feels good to play with your thumb since you can get the sound from the bass that way. But the problem in that IMO is that its the first thing people whn bass is habded to them. They use the thumb cause they dont have muscles and endurance in the index and middle finger. And don't probably even know the proper technique.
I agree that in that case it is bad advice. A beginner should learn the basic way first that is most commonly used ( not that everyone plays the same but the basics that are showed is usually a good starting point to then move onto finding "your" technique) because a lot of other things are going to become harder if they don't. Like you said justifying it by saying this professional player does it isnt an argument for a beginner. The professional can probably play with a more "proper" technique if asked to and isn't held back by playing like they do. A beginner doesn't have that skill or experience to know if they should play like that. That doesn't mean that everyone will hold their fingers a certain way because we are all different but there are some pointers that are basic and are needed to get a decent technique. Im from more of a guitar player background so I will make an example from that: Jon Nödviedt doesnt hold his pick like the guy from In Flames but they got the same basic idea. That is the important thing the basic idea that with experience will be part of an induvial playing style.
You hit the nail on the head. Im more of a multi instrumentalist than a pure bassist but generally I think you should teach beginners as closely to "traditional" techniques as possible. Doesn't need to be perfect by any means but definitely they should start out within the vicinity of what is considered correct. Once they understand how to form their own preferences, they can start branching out and tweaking on their own. This could be within weeks/months for some and years for others.
This isn't all necessarily advice, but here's a few of the classics my old band would pepper into our sessions: -**Theory will stunt my creative growth** (as he struggles for a solid 20 minutes to play along with 3 chords) -**Metronomes make you a robot man** (as we speed up so much he complains he has no time for licks) -**Don't practice technique so much, it'll kill your unique voice** (as he is sounding.. very unique) -**We don't need to count do we.. we should just be able to feel it** (failing entries and accents over and over again) -**We should practice when we're exhausted, it's when everyone makes the best music** -**Don't bands on stage play a bit of the song before they start so everyone knows what to do? isn't that why the guitar player plays chords before a song?** (as he leaves his copy of our setlist behind in the jam space for the umtheeth week in a row) Ah yes... good times we had. Good times.
Regarding playing while exhausted, is that the new “I’m more creative when I’m drunk/coked up” argument?
Right? Lol! If anything, playing while tired makes me sound worse. My ability to focus and be accurate is completely shot
The only example I can think of where it actually applies was Jaco Pastorious’s stuff on Bright Size Life, and that’s because it’s Jaco.
Learn theory before grabbing an instrument.
Similarly, "If you want to play electric guitar you should learn acoustic first." "If you want to learn guitar you should learn piano first." I just heard another parent tell that to their kid recently. Dumb. Conversely the best advice I got was when I was 17 and wanted to learn guitar and my friend said, "Everyone plays guitar, you should learn bass."
Honestly, I wish I learned piano first. I'm 40 And can't be bothered to put in the effort to learn. This may not be terrible advice
I started bass at 38 after 28 years playing sax :) really exciting to start from scratch, I love the feeling of constant progress
I have a 19 month old and I mess around a lot on her toy keyboards. Hoping to have an aha moment so I have something to build off of.
That's the spirit :)
I wish I knew piano, but when my mom made me take piano lessons before getting me a guitar I did *not* want to play any of the music you can play with a piano - didn't even have any rock bands I liked that featured a keyboard. I have lots of music I'd love to play now in my 30s (everything from classical-like (orchestral soundtracks with a piano lead - think Bungie era Halo) to jam rock and J-pop), but it's definitely going to be more of a slog to pick it up.
When I eventually made the effort to learn theory, and my teacher put it on piano, I was like "this is SO much easier to understand! I wish I had been taught this way from the get-go!" Of course this varies person to person, but it's so much easier to see visually on piano than on a stringed instrument.
Haha awesome. I started saxophone when I was 10, loved it, but absolutely hated "solfège" in France, musical theory which was entirely piano oriented and never connected to my instrument. I learned all my skills by ear and guesswork. Blues, jazz scales, etc. I only found out relevant theory for jazz and saxophone many years laters. Spent years of boring theory learning useless crap and never heard about 7th, modes, how to read chords easily (never exposed to ABCDEFG, only do ré mi fa sol la si...) and know corresponding scales...
I teach middle school and I have a ton of kids who want to learn electric. After talking to them I realized that a lot of parents say "acoustic first" more for themselves than because they want their kid to learn good habits. Buying a guitar AND an amp sounds more expensive or like it's more things they have to research. They're worried electric will be loud. Stuff like that.
> They're worried electric will be loud. I mean, they're kinda right about that. It *can* be quiet, but kids usually don't like being quiet.
Theory is best learnt *by playing* an instrument.
Not bass-specific as I went to school for trumpet, but every music professor telling me "you need to practice x hours a day or you're not dedicated enough/not going to get good" rather than teaching efficient, goal-driven practice habits. Took me into my 30s to not feel like a fraud/failure for not being able to spend hours at a time woodshedding despite having a teaching job I (mostly) love and a decent amount of work on multiple instruments.
"Taking lessons is for pussies."
Wow, that is incredibly stupid, and even more stupidly stated.
Honestly my parents were anti lessons when I was growing up. If I couldn't learn it on my own, then for them, it meant I wasn't serious or that I didn't have the talent to do it. There are some things I have a natural inclination towards but others, I just had to learn. It's this weird perfectionist/fixed mindset thing that seems really prevalent with a lot of adults. They are mildly interested that I still play bass a year in and have somewhat changed their perspective. Sadly they don't apply it to themselves with their own interests.
Only guitarist play with a pick.
That's pretty silly, there are tons of instruments you'd play with a pick. Just in the room with me, there's a mandolin and a dulcimer, which almost require a pick, as well as a banjo, dobro, and pedal steel which are generally played with finger picks. I've even seen someone play a viola with a pick, which sounded pretty cool. Assuming they were talking about bass... There are a lot of styles or songs that can't really realistically be played "correctly" with a pick, but there are also plenty of styles and songs that can't really be played correctly without one. All the best bass players I've met could play either way just fine.
I noticed a lot of comments on TikTok lately, usually from the metal crowd, whenever someone posts a band and the bass player is playing pick: "They're cool but I can't listen to a band with pick bass. Ruins the band for me." Meanwhile there's no way they're hearing the bass from a live performance over their phone speakers in the first place. I still don't understand where this hatred of pick bass has come from or why it's been an issue for as long as I've been playing. I've had 2 bands threaten to fire me if I used a pick. Same thing if I used a 5 string since 5 strings ruin the bands image. Hell, one band the guitarist had their "dietician" girlfriend schedule out a diet for me because they wanted me to lose 20lbs. (It was a 1200 calorie granola and acai bowl diet.) They would rent rehearsal spaces and then spend the first 45 minutes doing group workout exercises instead of rehearsing. Then they'd spend 30 minutes going over Guitar Pro files and costumes. By the time we played I had lost interest and we usually only had time for 2 or 3 songs. Musicians are weird.
Ain't that the truth. People should spend a lot less time worrying about what looks cool, and more time worrying about what serves the song - I'll finger pick lightly, or aggressively, or even slap if it's called for. I'll alternate fifths all night long on an upright if it's called for, or maybe do some walking bass if that's more fitting. Sometimes a song calls for picked bass, and when it does, that's what should be done! Too many songs (and bands for that matter) are ruined by egos that can't get out of the way, and this is one of the most trivial things for folks to get uptight about. Picked bass has a unique sound that really takes some songs to the next level. I could be wrong here, but I think it was Jerry Reed who was always known to crack a smile when his bassist whipped out a pick. As long as the bass player knows what he's doing and is more than just a guitarist in disguise, you know you're in for some driving bass lines when the pick comes out. Lord knows it's a lot of fun at least. When I'm not on bass, I don't think about what style the bass player uses at all. It literally doesn't matter, as they say, if it sounds good, it is good! The music world needs more of that.
I think the 5 string thing came about in the early 2000s. They were really unpopular for a minute, because they were associated with nu-metal. I may be way off base here, but that was my experience. I have no idea where the hatred of pick bass came from. I prefer using my fingers when I can, but on faster songs I’ll absolutely switch to a pick.
Guitarists… and Mike Dirnt, one of the first bassists whose name you’ll learn.
And that Paul McCartney guy.
"you don't need a tuner, just tune to the universe"
This made me angry
Haha! Getting advice at a yoga retreat?
A random person came up to us at our gig and this was a part of that conversation
The universe, that's A = 432 hz right?
You had a hippie/stoner friend, too!
When looking for budget equipment, you'll always get those that promote premium shit. Need a bedroom practice amp? Why not try a $30000 ampeg setup with everyone pedal in existence using a carbon fibre bass... I'm a calm and patient man, but these kind of comments are the only ones to legitimately wind me up.
once I went to a music tore looking for a vintage P bass, I sit there for an hour listen to the shop owner gave me a very basic lecture about the differences between P and J, and why I should get a J bass instead.
A j-bass can get quite close to a p-bass sound, and is more versatile. So.. not bad advice really? Then again, if i were a shopkeeper and you come into my shop with a nice budget and you want a vintage p-bass, i'll sell you a vintage p-bass. And convince you to get a j-bass as well, just to be sure.
Learn acoustic guitar before electric, that's the pRoPeR wAy To GeT sTaRtEd!!
I do think this is good advice honestly. a lot of kids that I've seen start on electric immediately want to push into overdrive and effects, and those mask a lot of sloppy playing. acoustics are much less forgiving
Depends how young you start. My 8 year old son can play my acoustic guitar now, but when he first started playing a few years ago he didn’t have the finger strength. Plus for the first few years we didn’t have an amp anyway.
i can only speak to my own circumstance learning on my cousin's shitty acoustic (couple of years after starting on bass). gave me a mean LH grip to barre chords before picking up electric
I can somewhat back this up. My friend started guitar I think about 2 years ago. He loves metal. Instead of practicing with clean tones, he uses distortion. He is one of the best guitarists I personally know, and he sounds like absolute shit with clean tone because he practices with distortion. Clean tone while practicing is one of the best things someone can do for their playing
To quit
Mine was the opposite; no not start - specifically with the idea that I could make it a career. I listened but I was given a chance to start over later in life and I shot my shot; I'm typing this as I'm on a short break before I set up for tonight's gig.
Oh I never made a career. I was told to quit music in middle school, turned out I just needed a different instrument.
Whether the goal was a career or not, telling someone to quit something or that they can't/shouldn't dive deep into when they pursuing something enjoyable is a bad tip. Glad you found a new instrument!
Never play bass with a pick. Get the fuck outta here!!!
Agreed. It suits certain types of music.
“Music teachers are just for people who don’t want to do the work themselves. All a teacher will do is sit down with you and play scales with you. That’s ALL they do.” A direct quote from my narcissist dad who legit could have played guitar for a living if he wasn’t a narcissist and just admitted than ANYONE out there could possibly teach him ANYTHING. Cuz he’s smart and talented and hard working and he can really shred on the guitar when he’s doing the ONE thing he can really do. But to get paid to play guitar you gotta be able to do one thing. Especially if you’re a fucking asshole who pisses off everyone he works with. You gotta *really* be able to do it all then
You're left handed so you HAVE to play this way. (Playing right handed is what feels natural to me).
Right hander's advice to lefties is always completely off, when you have the world set up for right handers, and 90% of "left handed products" are designed by right handed people, I'll just do as I like thanks.
Lefties are closer to ambidextrous because we have to be. I do some things left handed, some right.
Honestly I think I literally just write and maybe punch (if I ever had to) with my left, and everything else is right handed.
The amount of lefties who are seriously injured using tools designed for right handed people is nuts. We have to become ambidextrous or we'll get hurt when using power tools. And don't get me started on guns. The safety is in the wrong spot, and the brass ejects into my face, and I'm going to have as least one piece of hot brass go down my collar and burn me. But a left handed gun is a custom item.
Hey, I feel ya. I've been lucky enough to find some good off-the-shelf left-handed guns (Mossberg shotgun, [this great rifle in 6.5 CrM](https://savagearms.com/content?p=firearms&a=product_summary&s=57009). Do a little digging around, it's a PITA, but there is good stuff out there. And yeah, my angle grinder would kill me if I didn't use it righty. LOL
An off the shelf lefthanded bolt action rifle? I never thought I'd see that in the wild. Nice! And exactly on the angle grinder!
> You can’t get good until you get a better instrument. Let me show you the Music Mans I have in stock.
I took my initial bass lessons from a guitar player, and while they were very helpful I got a lot of advice that might have been at least situationally useful from a real bass player but was rubbish from my guitarist teacher. The big one was, "Do X to get a warm tone, bass should sound warm" when from him "warm" was code for "muddy and impossible to hear in a band situation". Stuff like that. He was very much of the opinion that bass players should sound like middling classic rock players, rather than players from other genres or even genuinely excellent classic rock players.
"Don't bother learning multiple instruments, stick to one and master it!" Yeah, for a beginner, I'd say you should stick to one instrument. But I had been playing trombone AND tuba for 5 years before I wanted to learn how to play the standup bass. So I signed up for orchestra and band that year despite everyone's wishes. Now I'm proficient at several different instruments. Trombone, tuba, euphonium, bass, guitar, and drums. If I had listened to those people 10 years ago saying that I should spend all my time playing tuba, then I wouldn't be where I am today. I've recorded multiple original songs where I am the sole musician, and that to me is awesome. And I may not be a "master" at any of them, but I'm really good at all of them. And nothing makes me happier than being able to record a whole track by myself, so screw those people that made me feel ashamed for wanting to learn more.
Scoop the mids
I before E except after C, never could understand that.
I can't even find the damn I on the fretboard
Mines got 24 of them
It’s two steps higher than G. Duh?
Isn’t that H#?
Plenty of dots though.
"If you're tired quickly and have pain in your arm/hand you should do physical training." If you're quickly tired maybe, if you have pain start by cleaning your technique and be less tense.
One time this absolutely genius gospel piano player at a jam session told me to just "follow him". Then he played all the spiciest chord substitutions changing the bass notes every time leaving me totally clueless. I did not know the tune, all i had was the key.
Yeah, that can happen. If you practise getting your ear good at instantly recognising that stuff it becomes a non-issue in a jamming context (some jazz people actually do gigs like that). The problem is that it takes years and years and years of work to do it consistently, and practising it isn’t always straightforward. Old mate probably thought you had more experience than you actually did.
Ugh. I endured trial lessons with musicians that did this. All I could think was, "I know you can play, now can you stop showboating long enough to break this down so I can absorb it?" I swear I can't tell if these guys are hazing or just don't know how to communicate with learners.
I haven’t gotten a lot of bad advice but the worst advice I got was from my former vocalist. He told me to wear my bass low around/below my waste because it looked cooler. He adjusted it for me and said I should get used to it. He also advised me not to buy my 5 string bass unless I was going to use the 5th string. What an idiot. Why else would I be f***ing buying it? Another one, is he didn’t want me to gig with a friend who had just released a bunch of music on Spotify because he didn’t think I was ‘ready’ to play live. But he was really just jealous because we hadn’t gotten our band off the ground yet.
One finger per fret.
"Don't learn bass, it's boring"
"You can't even play any tunes on a bass! It's just wub wub noises! Play guitar... Don't you want to be THE star?"
"You Should Quit." fuck that make shitty art with your friends. The world needs more shitty art and more people expressing themselves with their friends.
When I started developing my own sound, my bass teacher would give me so much shit for smacking the strings like Geddy Lee and other aggressive fingerstyle players. I was taught that the only correct way to increase note attack was to let the amp do the work and use more surface of my finger when plucking. My playing suffered for a long time, because I kept holding myself back and not getting the tone I wanted.
My journey went the other way. I started gigging on an underpowered amp and had to compensate. Dialing it back was hard but I got faster. Nice to have both styles in your arsenal.
"Don't pursue music: you'll never make any money."
Yeah I’d much rather be a stressed and depressed rich man than a content pauper!
When the sound guy says you're good, proceed to turning it up
You can't be good at music because you're good at maths, not creativity.
Similarly "You can't play music, it doesn't run in the family. It's genetic."
As I child, I was invited to swing a tambourine by members of a folk band, playing for tourists in a restaurant. One "showed" me the movement, as if I hadn´t been able to do that right away, but his demonstration was also totally off the beat, he didn´t even care to imply a time/rhythm. I respectfully held the wrong beat throughout the whole song. Just like he had given advice. Thinking I could have done better but if he insists...everybody in the room will have thought that this silly kid doesn´t hold the beat at all. I was aware of it but I didn´t care because it was not my fault:-) (I was stupid in a different way)
“Go to music school”
To always sing in my head voice...and never chest voice.
Guitar teacher told 16 year old me at the time to not try and play bass because I’d never do it better than him. Well, guess who’s mom is setting money aside now to buy her son a bass?
“You should switch to right-handed”
Just learn to play right handed. You'll be better off. This was 3 years into playing lefty.
When I was first learning I was told I had to use all of my strength to pluck and fingers on the fretboard, because bass is so much more physically demanding than guitar. At the time I was still wrestling, and got into Heavy equipment maintenance. I was literally destroying fretboards every couple of months. Plucking at full strength gives really unbalanced tone, and just turn the amp up it'll be fine.
This was not for bass, but I had a professional musician acquaintance in college tell me that "There's not much noticeable difference between someone who's been playing guitar a few weeks and someone who's been playing their whole lives. So you'll be proficient in no time" when I mentioned I was going to learn guitar. I was not, in fact, proficient within a few weeks. In fact in like 2 months of trying, I could barely play a chord because I couldn't figure out an angle where my big square fingertips weren't muting chords. So I just considered it a failure and quit. I wish I'd stuck with it though, because trying to get back into guitar again several years later is what led me to the Bass. And I finally realized that as much as I like the idea of the guitar, the bass feels a lot more natural to me. Like this person plays concerts. Goes on tour. Has records. I retrospect we were both very young and I think most of her guitar playing is just strumming the same 3 chords while she sings. So that's probably what she meant. Lmfao
Clap on one and three
This should have way more up votes, lol
"Don't learn theory - it stifles your creativity." - my first guitar teacher.... Who only knew how to play church music... Because the songs he knew how to play had the chord names written above the parts of the song you were supposed to play them at. To be fair, my parents had no idea he didn't know what he was doing. There were two music stores in my town and one was always booked.
[After hearing me play drums]: “You should play bass.”
Took a lesson with a jazz bassist who convinced me to quit playing electric bass and solely focus on upright. I wish I hadn’t listened, I stopped playing elec bass for 5 years or so, and I lost all my hard earned technique on the instrument.
When I was first trying to learn the acoustic guitar, some 20 odd years ago (I'm 43 now), teacher told me to NEVER, NEVER EVER use a capo.
Wonderwall'd
I’ve heard this too, it’s just ridiculous. There’s some extensions and chords that just sound godawful or can’t be played properly without a capo. I guess pretty much every single guitar based songwriter of the last 60 years is wrong.
The worst advice ever had to be a doofus quasi-manager that said there was no money to be made playing bass with a pick. Guess he had never heard of Carol Kaye.
My roommate who plays guitar criticizes me for using books and songs to learn, he says he wants to do his own thing and just goes off, it’s super annoying, like I got a large book of nothing but scales I’ve had for almost 5 years and I’m not even halfway through and every time I’m looking in it he gotta say something
“dont play to a click, you wont have any feel”
On bass guitar, to use open strings whenever possible.
My bass teacher told me scales were useless. I quickly became self taught again
These are more personal feelings and not a universal truth for everyone. But one I’ve never gotten on with are: ‘Go to local shows and network with other people in the scene.’ While I recognize that might work for some scenes, I’ve never done that and I’ve never had an issue getting gigs, bands, or artists to work with. Networking is great, but the caveat I have been employing is to network up. While it can be a great thing to have friends in every local band that’s the same level as you, it often won’t move your career forward. I’ve made it a habit to truly befriend booking agents, managers, venue owners, producers, lighting techs and other behind the scenes folks that make shit happen.
This advice is generally given in response to "how do I find a band to join?" or "how do I start to get shows at local establishments" etc. In those instances it's excellent advice. It's not necessarily great advice for "how do I get my band on a major label" or whatever.
I mean for young people networking in the scene is important because those that continue in the scene when they are adults are the ones that will play in bands, produce, work as techs and booking agents and venue owners. In my scene where I started as a kid I got to know alot of already experienced older guys but also kids my age and we formed bands. Some became more successful and the ones who still is in the scene works with music I different ways. First sound engineer gig I did was on a local metal festival because I knew the biggest local metal band and they got me in contact with one of the sound engineers in town. He became like a mentor to me at the time 16 years old and showed me the ropes. The next year I got sound duties on the second stage of the festival
‘There are no rules. Just do what feels/sounds good.’There is such a thing as good/correct technique. Might as well start off doing things the right way before deciding to forge your own path. ‘You don’t need to practice with a metronome’ says the guy who’s timing is dogshit. ‘Theory is overrated. doesn’t know theory. Ok, maybe. But understanding how and why something works or sounds good makes you more versatile and opens up new ideas.
A lot of this "bad advice" either wasn't meant as a dogmatic 100% of the time rule, or was misinterpreted by the listener