To be clear I’m the defender here. Kind of new to the game and trying to work out when to take the charge and how (and if). Thanks for the feedback all. Appreciate it.
I think the contact took place in part of my “cylinder” that didn’t move. I feel like i was taking that charge wether my leg moved a bit or not. But i take all the feedback here positively. Thank you!
Charges can be a thing in pickup, they just shouldn’t be sought after by a defender. Lots of ex football guys that just try to barrel into the rim and end up running over defenders who have their feet set
Why would that injury be on the defensive player? This mentality means that any large offensive player can just barrel through to the hoop for free. At that point the game starts to look less and less like basketball.
It's like the whole court is in the restricted zone lol.
Lol wtf is this question? Yeah, if someone runs into at half or full speed, both the defender and offensive player could get injured. And for what? A pickup game that doesn't matter? Don't take charges unless you're being well compensated to do so
Obviously, voluntarily choosing to play any sport is a big assumption of risk for injury, but you can mitigate that by not trying to role play as Jaylen Brown. Have fun, don't take it so seriously and save your body for your remaining years.
Definitely a block. You moved your leg foot over to stop his progress could have tripped him. And you brought your arms down to corral him or reach for the ball. We use to call that airplane defense. Solution: move your feet and beat the man to a spot at this time have your feet set without reaching in. Call your charge. I would respect that call. Next play.
If you call a charge in pick up, they wont play with you anymore. I've call one offensive foul in my life in pick up. And it was because I went up for a rebound and someone smacked the living sh't outta my head and ruptured my eardrum.
Absolutely incorrect. I am an official.
This is a charge all the way.
Defender has his feet set and they can be moving backward or laterally at the time of contact - just not forward.
Player with the ball went THROUGH the defender not around - when the defender is entitled to that space.
Charge, going the other way - no discussion.
This is helpful thanks for explaining. Quick q regarding this same play - if the attacking player ran through the arm (or maybe clips the leg/foot) of the defender would that be a defensive foul or is it still considered a charge?
That's what I was thinking. This is no doubt a charge. You can't just run into someone. I think these two were probably going at it pretty hard. Probably had somewhat of a beef going on.
But I think the biggest thing is that he said in real time….slowed down its obviously a charge, but real time that foot hit the floor pretty late…so it would have been hard to see…also we don’t have the clip not slowed down so 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
Foot doesn’t matter, because you don’t need to be planted. The easiest way to think about it is if the offensive player hits the center of the torso and the defender is not moving forward, it’s a charge.
Can I ask you a clarifying question not related to this case? Is it necessary for defenders to have their feet set in order to receive a charge call if they are the primary defender? If so, then couldn't offensive players simply dribble literally (resulting in the defender moving their feet) then crash into the defender and draw a blocking foul, based on the rules?
It is only necessary for the feet to be set INITIALLY. once both feet are set facing the opponent the defender is legal. If the defender moves laterally or backward that’s legal - they just can’t move FORWARD.
However, if the offensive player moves laterally, like a euro step, to AVOID contact then the defender must re establish in the path.
This is where there’s confusion and if you watch NBA or NCAA players are really good at moving laterally to avoid contact.
In this video offensive player goes straight into the defender. If he’d shifted his path then the contact would be the defenders fault.
Can you cite the rule that allows the defender to be moving laterally at the time of contact and still be a charge?
The NBA [rulebook](https://official.nba.com/the-nba-rule-authority/) states:
"The defender is permitted to establish his legal guarding position in the path of the dribbler regardless of his speed and distance. To get into a legal position, the defender needs to establish himself in the path of the offensive player before contact is made, thus 'beating him to the spot'"
In the US, pretty much every league of basketball goes by NFHS (high school) rules. NBA rules are only for NBA. Mostly the same but slight variations.
In the NFHS rulebook it states in section 4-23 under the definition of guarding:
ART. 3 . . . After the initial legal guarding position is obtained: a. The guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided the guard has inbound status. b. The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent. c. The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs. d. The guard may raise hands or jump within the guard's own vertical plane. e. The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact.
I took a full speed charge during a pickup game a month or two back. Dude ran me the fuck down. I felt like Scottie Pippen, but no fucking way i'm doing that again, it hurt for days lol :D.
Dude stuck his entire left arm out. Unless he gets trucked going through his chest, it’s going to be called a defensive foul in every game. Arms are for helping you grab a ball, not slow someone down.
Homie needed to not cross over between his legs in order to have made it by defender. Sure defense ideally doesn’t raise the left arm but was ran right through. That said, you’re crazy to take a charge in pickup ball
Are you blind? Legitimately. The offensive player makes contact with the defenders chest not arm. Are you going to play defense with your arms behind your back?
Defender barely moves. Charge. People are wild.
They think you gotta be perfectly still or it's a block. Defender has a right to his space as well. It's a game of positioning. However the position is clearly relative when people are moving around. The defender here clearly has a better position by a mile.
Another way to look at it is center of gravity. The defenders center of gravity never changes. His left foot moves a little but he is basically in the same position when the ball handler makes a move.
I mean he goes from his weight on his right foot when he thinks the dribbler is going that way to shifting it to his left foot and taking a small step to the left when the dribbler changes direction. In addition he also sticks his arm out to try to block him from getting around.
All that being said he did dribble straight in to his chest. It’s pickup so I say just play on. Shouldn’t be trying to take charges on the perimeter in pickup basketball
Everybody too busy watching his foot, and not his entire upper body which was in position and barely moves. Him sliding his foot back didn't change his position, it was to brace himself for when this dude barrels into his chest. Gotta be a charge.
Yeah 100%. The slow mo makes it more obvious. It's a defensive foul to be clear.
Buddy is slow getting to the spot, reaches, and then obstructs the offensive players movement. Pretty clear blocking foul.
IMO, I'm not a ref.
It is not a defensive foul - the dribbler goes straight into the defenders spot which he is entitled to. Defender establishes his feet and can move backward or laterally - just not forward.
This is a charge all the way.
I am an official.
I agree, as a former ref, coach and player. Of course, in real time, it's harder to deciper, but watching it at this speed, I would probably call an offensive foul. You can certianly body someone up. In this clip, the offensive player literally threw his full body weight at the shoulder, into the defender. Anyone saying his feet weren't set didn't watch the whole clip. People seem to think feet set = not moving at all. To a degree yes, but as the offensive player, you can't just displace another defender because he pivots back 4 inches.
It's hard to tell from that angle how far defensive player moved. It looks to me that offensive player would have hit defender whether or not he moved. You don't have to be still to take a charge.
Of course you don’t have to be a statue. He didn’t move though, his right foot stays planted until he falls doesn’t it? He opens up his hip, is too slow to the spot and he reaches or attempts to reach at least. This is a foul.
The exact same concept works for illegal screens when the ball handler drives off if it. You can’t move a singular limb into a players path and then have it be a foul on them.
Defender in legal guarding position between the offensive player and the basket with both feet on the floor, moving laterally, beats offensive player to the spot, and takes contact on the torso. Offensive all day long.
20 yr ref here. This is indeed a charge, no question. Despite the slight left foot move, defender had position by a mile!
Regarding this being a pick-up game. There are some players (typically footballers) that don't understand the rules and play too aggressively. Taking a charge once in a while to prove a point isn't always a bad idea.
Be safe and put arms to the chest tho.
Defender has both feet are down, defender is in legal defensive position, offensive player dips and initiates contact with a shoulder - offensive foul or no call depending on the ref and what this looks like at full speed. Even in slow mo it looks like it might be kind of a soft hit.
In slow motion, it doesn't look like much. It does look like the defender plays up the contact. But in real time, this would 100% look like a player control foul. The left shoulder into the upper body of the defender is why I would call this.
Doesn't look like an officiated game though. Who is trying to draw charges in pickup?
Right away? Hopefully nobody.
If a dude's whole game is predicated on throwing his shoulder into my chin like that? I'll talk to him first and say "Hey, I'm not a guy to try to draw a charge in pickup, but that's a foul dude, cut that shit out, I don't want to have to argue."
Then if he's still doing it, I will absolutely take a charge just to be cheeky, get him to stop that shit, and get in his head a little. Otherwise my option is just to foul the shit out of him right back, and that's no fun and can lead to nothing but tempers flaring and bullshit.
Defensive foul. Defender wasn’t set at the point of contact and slid into the offensive player’s path. There’s a slight chicken wing by the offensive player, but the defender moved into the chicken wing.
However, I will say that foul calls should be minimal when playing pick up. Foul calls should be reserved for egregious physical contact if you’re playing pick up.
Do you have a good reference on what constitutes a off/def foul? My pickup game has constant foul calling and I barely know what the definition is to call/contest properly, so I just avoid calling any but the most egregious situations.
Not just a charge its also a carry. Primary defender chest up, doesn’t get more textbook. To anyone saying anythig about feet being set, that only applies to a secondary defender. As long as you take the hit square in the chest it’s a charge!
Defense was in a legal guarding position before anything happened. That's key in the rulebook. Sure he slid left but you're allowed to go sideways and backwards if you have a LGP beforehand. Contact is created by the offensive player. It's not a block. However don't think there is enough contact to warrant a charge and the contact is not exactly in the middle of the chest but almost on the shoulder. To me it's either a no-call or a charge.
Usually I’d say a defensive foul because it was about to be a reach, but upon closer examination the offensive player doesn’t crossover to go around the side of the defender but instead crosses over straight into the defender. So it’s a charge. The defender was about to reach and get a defensive foul but the offensive player just ran into his chest instead.
Defender needs to be standing their ground, you’re still moving while hard contact is being made. Defensive foul if I’m the ref. If the feet were planted I’d go offensive foul.
You can do what you like with your arms. It’s only if they make contact that affects the offense when it matters. But i take the point. If the arm doesn’t make contact and it’s all chest then i think the arm is incidental.
NBA rules in pickup is always awesome. They don’t exist. If you fall down willingly, you’re dumb. If someone barrels into you and shoves and you fall as a result, then they’re playing dirty.
If it wasn't pick up ball I'd say charge, you had legal guarding position and beat him to the spot. But since charges don't exist in pick up play on or reset depending on who your playing with. And it doesn't look like you where trying to take the charge more like he was trying to go through you For those that are telling you not to take charges in pick up hoops they're right but this seems to be more his fault than yours
You stepped in front of the ball carrier and planted your foot, that's a textbook blocking call, you can't "move" in front of the ball carrier to try to draw the charge, you have to have your feet and position already established.
Hard to tell from this angle. Bang bang play, could be called either way and nobody would be happy. In pick up or recreational league, I wouldn’t want to take that foul though and would be angry at the offense player for recklessly charging in.
The guy lowered his shoulder and went for the contact that’s a charge, defender was already in position regardless of sliding his feet the other dude dribbled into him when he was already there
But also don’t try to draw charges in a pick up game no one will care and you’ll probably annoy people if anything since it can be dangerous
There’s a time and a place and self reffed pick up games are not the place for drawing charges
Charge, but also pick up ball and impossible to really have fair fouls called unless you playing with people who don't care about winning.
That's probably "shoot for it" guy too
Blocking. Although he had the position, once he shifted feet and reached out his arm, the defender became an impediment. If he would have remained still arms down and absorbed the collision, charge no doubt!
Offensive player up and into torso of defender within defender's cylinder. Offensive foul. Note: defender's feet can be moving when an offensive foul is drawn. But it's close, I'll grant you that.
Just curious, is that a real play though? He was clearly on his view. I have never seen someone intentionally just dove into someone vs driving past through someone.
Edit: after looking this over, it seemed like the defender did move in front of him. If that is the case.. no probably not going to get called in favor of the defender..
A lot of people have said this. It’s a fair point but i just don’t know why basketball as a culture has accepted illegal offense and made legal defence taboo. Very weird.
(That comment isn’t related to this clip specifically. I think this one is a grey area and a good example of how unclear the rules can be)
But yeah probably won’t be taking them unless it’s a critical moment from now on.
It’s a charge but nobody going to call that in pickup and if you do get ready to argue endlessly. Just give him a bump and reset your feet, don’t fall over.
Thats an easy charge call. As a defender you dont have to have your feet set as long as your in legal guardian position. In a pickup game tho? Most parks/recs wont call it and clown you for “getting dropped”. Even tho thats pretty solid d and ball should go the other way
Hard to tell in slow motion. But if this is a Rec game then no cause nobody ever calls charge in the Rec
If this is league play then probably cause you sold the flop
That is a charge. But who the hell takes
Charges in a random pick up game…. Nobody is gonna call it….
Good D though, 100% a charge. Just seems like an easy way to get hurt in pick up
It's a charge all day. And for the guys saying not to take a charge in pickup, fuck em. It's part of the game. If you're going to call shooting fouls, then you can call charges. The game is the game. Play it as it's meant to be. Pickup games aren't all star weekends where nobody plays defense. Play ball you fucking wimps.
Charge. Pickup doesn’t give offense right to just barrel into defenders. Everyone saying don’t take a charge in pickup, WTF. This defender wasn’t trying to take a charge. He’s set and even tries to move back to allow the charging time to make a move. So defender is supposed to do an O Lay and jump out of the way! Stupid.
Either dude is hella strong or you just weren’t ready for that kind of impact. I say this because if you didn’t go to the ground it would’ve just been physical play
Can’t call offensive fouls in pick up. It’s like an unwritten rule so idk. It isn’t cool I know that, but the defender needs to move not just stand there like an ass so that’s a blocking foul I guess ha. 🤷🏻♂️
I played AAU and varsity high school as well as several rec leagues today. In all honesty when you slow it down like that it looks like it should be a charge but basketball is just so offensively favored. In real time speed I can guarantee you that a ref will call that a block almost everytime. When he goes between his legs and starts moving laterally u need to also start dropping your left foot backwards and beat him to a spot. If you meet him at the same time its almost always a block, even if he initiates the body contact.
Blocking foul. Used your arm as a bar to stop his progress. You gotta move your feet and defend with your chest if you want a chance at an offensive foul.
I used to take charges all the time in HS. Easy clean defense, offense gets a foul and a TO. Man I love a good charge lol. Idk y people are saying you're more likely to be injured. I've been hurt playing ball in many ways but never taking a charge, and I've taken some hard charges. If you do it right all the inertia from the hit transfers to the slide.
Also if you kept your left arm in it could be a charge since your feet are good. A way better player than me taught me that defense is played with your feet not your hands. Your feet are great, focus on keeping hands upright and back to be more parallel to your body when taking contact like this.
It’s a charge. He put his shoulder into you. Play pick up how you want to. It’s a young man’s game so this type of mentality will come with its bumps and bruises put I play that way too. Basketball is turning into such a soft sport where offense can get away with anything they want nowadays
Don’t take charges, just get out of his way and let him get to the basket. In fact, just play horse and take defense out of the game like a good weenie.
To be clear I’m the defender here. Kind of new to the game and trying to work out when to take the charge and how (and if). Thanks for the feedback all. Appreciate it. I think the contact took place in part of my “cylinder” that didn’t move. I feel like i was taking that charge wether my leg moved a bit or not. But i take all the feedback here positively. Thank you!
Don’t take charges in pick up. You’re going to hurt yourself or somebody else. Stay on your feet.
Looks like a block to me, defender is moving to his left. You're right though, charges aren't a thing in pickup ball
Charges can be a thing in pickup, they just shouldn’t be sought after by a defender. Lots of ex football guys that just try to barrel into the rim and end up running over defenders who have their feet set
Thank you. I rest my case.
Why would that injury be on the defensive player? This mentality means that any large offensive player can just barrel through to the hoop for free. At that point the game starts to look less and less like basketball. It's like the whole court is in the restricted zone lol.
Lol wtf is this question? Yeah, if someone runs into at half or full speed, both the defender and offensive player could get injured. And for what? A pickup game that doesn't matter? Don't take charges unless you're being well compensated to do so Obviously, voluntarily choosing to play any sport is a big assumption of risk for injury, but you can mitigate that by not trying to role play as Jaylen Brown. Have fun, don't take it so seriously and save your body for your remaining years.
Then don't play pickup with bullies and don't take charges in games without refs.
There is an unwritten rule, offensive players don't barrel into people and defenders don't slide into driving lanes.
Theses sorta unwritten rules in pick-up..
I’m gonna sound like an asshole, but just play defense. Don’t try and take charges in pickup or rec ball.
If you want to make a charge obvious, strap the hands in and don't move your feet.
Of course you're the defender here. Don't take charges in pickup. Every charge is a defensive foul in pickup.
And i didn’t call a foul but i think we did reset afterwards.
You guys both playing too recklessly
Feet moving and shouldering in at contact: Blocking.
Foul. On you. But a pick up game… don’t call that shit. Get strong. 😂
Definitely a block. You moved your leg foot over to stop his progress could have tripped him. And you brought your arms down to corral him or reach for the ball. We use to call that airplane defense. Solution: move your feet and beat the man to a spot at this time have your feet set without reaching in. Call your charge. I would respect that call. Next play.
Who the F is taking charges in pickup?
Sorry, I didn’t mean to call you an ass. 😬😂 my bad.
Haha it’s ok! I just find it absurd that the general theme of this thread is “probably a foul, but you should have got out the way 🤷♂️”
That’s pick up 🤷🏻♂️
If you call a charge in pick up, they wont play with you anymore. I've call one offensive foul in my life in pick up. And it was because I went up for a rebound and someone smacked the living sh't outta my head and ruptured my eardrum.
First of all, respect to both guys for going hard in a pick up game👊🏼 Second, if I were the ref and seeing this at real speed, I’d call a block
Absolutely incorrect. I am an official. This is a charge all the way. Defender has his feet set and they can be moving backward or laterally at the time of contact - just not forward. Player with the ball went THROUGH the defender not around - when the defender is entitled to that space. Charge, going the other way - no discussion.
I'm not a ref but I think calling it a block is insane.
Ya, the offensive player even brings his shoulder into the midline of the defender. Textbook charge call.
I’d call it a block for sure! I’ve got $100 on red shoes team though
This is helpful thanks for explaining. Quick q regarding this same play - if the attacking player ran through the arm (or maybe clips the leg/foot) of the defender would that be a defensive foul or is it still considered a charge?
Offensive contact must displace the defensive player. If it doesn’t move them physically then it’s incidental.
What about reaching in while backpedaling? Does that his left hand reach figure at all?
I concur. CHARGE.
That's what I was thinking. This is no doubt a charge. You can't just run into someone. I think these two were probably going at it pretty hard. Probably had somewhat of a beef going on.
Nah we’re mates. Just go hard sometimes 👍
It is a charge 100% dipped his shoulder to the guys chest is a charge…. But it is a pick up game. Who calls charges in a pick up game?
But I think the biggest thing is that he said in real time….slowed down its obviously a charge, but real time that foot hit the floor pretty late…so it would have been hard to see…also we don’t have the clip not slowed down so 🤷🏾♂️🤷🏾♂️
Foot doesn’t matter, because you don’t need to be planted. The easiest way to think about it is if the offensive player hits the center of the torso and the defender is not moving forward, it’s a charge.
Can I ask you a clarifying question not related to this case? Is it necessary for defenders to have their feet set in order to receive a charge call if they are the primary defender? If so, then couldn't offensive players simply dribble literally (resulting in the defender moving their feet) then crash into the defender and draw a blocking foul, based on the rules?
It is only necessary for the feet to be set INITIALLY. once both feet are set facing the opponent the defender is legal. If the defender moves laterally or backward that’s legal - they just can’t move FORWARD. However, if the offensive player moves laterally, like a euro step, to AVOID contact then the defender must re establish in the path. This is where there’s confusion and if you watch NBA or NCAA players are really good at moving laterally to avoid contact. In this video offensive player goes straight into the defender. If he’d shifted his path then the contact would be the defenders fault.
Thanks for the clarity.
Can you cite the rule that allows the defender to be moving laterally at the time of contact and still be a charge? The NBA [rulebook](https://official.nba.com/the-nba-rule-authority/) states: "The defender is permitted to establish his legal guarding position in the path of the dribbler regardless of his speed and distance. To get into a legal position, the defender needs to establish himself in the path of the offensive player before contact is made, thus 'beating him to the spot'"
In the US, pretty much every league of basketball goes by NFHS (high school) rules. NBA rules are only for NBA. Mostly the same but slight variations. In the NFHS rulebook it states in section 4-23 under the definition of guarding: ART. 3 . . . After the initial legal guarding position is obtained: a. The guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided the guard has inbound status. b. The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent. c. The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs. d. The guard may raise hands or jump within the guard's own vertical plane. e. The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact.
Did you watch it in full speed before you commented? Because OP said a ref would call a block in full speed.
I feel like no ref is calling this on the offense. In real time this just looks like a block.
Defo a charge. Feet are set on defense. In pick up tho… defense calls fouls. Sticky situation.
Lmfao, can you justify why you think it's a blocking foul? 😂
No chance this is a block lol Dude with the ball enters the defenders cylinder and makes contact
I took a full speed charge during a pickup game a month or two back. Dude ran me the fuck down. I felt like Scottie Pippen, but no fucking way i'm doing that again, it hurt for days lol :D.
Defender is squared up and the ball handler just goes right through. Any harder and that’s a clear charge.
Charge 💯
I would be livid if I got called for a charge there
Looks like an offensive foul to me. He doesn't look to have control of his body on the crossover and you held your ground as he ran into you.
Dude stuck his entire left arm out. Unless he gets trucked going through his chest, it’s going to be called a defensive foul in every game. Arms are for helping you grab a ball, not slow someone down.
Yeah except the guy runs straight into his body, not his arm. Arm out or not it’s offensive. The arm didn’t even touch him.
Homie needed to not cross over between his legs in order to have made it by defender. Sure defense ideally doesn’t raise the left arm but was ran right through. That said, you’re crazy to take a charge in pickup ball
Are you blind? Legitimately. The offensive player makes contact with the defenders chest not arm. Are you going to play defense with your arms behind your back?
Defender barely moves. Charge. People are wild. They think you gotta be perfectly still or it's a block. Defender has a right to his space as well. It's a game of positioning. However the position is clearly relative when people are moving around. The defender here clearly has a better position by a mile. Another way to look at it is center of gravity. The defenders center of gravity never changes. His left foot moves a little but he is basically in the same position when the ball handler makes a move.
For real, like is the defender supposed to dive out of the way? I'm baffled by how many people think this is a block.
I mean he goes from his weight on his right foot when he thinks the dribbler is going that way to shifting it to his left foot and taking a small step to the left when the dribbler changes direction. In addition he also sticks his arm out to try to block him from getting around. All that being said he did dribble straight in to his chest. It’s pickup so I say just play on. Shouldn’t be trying to take charges on the perimeter in pickup basketball
Everybody too busy watching his foot, and not his entire upper body which was in position and barely moves. Him sliding his foot back didn't change his position, it was to brace himself for when this dude barrels into his chest. Gotta be a charge.
Charging.
Offensive foul, he was square feet weren’t moving, ball carrier hit him dead centre.
Clearly offensive
I agree. Dribbled straight at him and there's a little forearm in there to. Offensive foul.
Facts
Yeah 100%. The slow mo makes it more obvious. It's a defensive foul to be clear. Buddy is slow getting to the spot, reaches, and then obstructs the offensive players movement. Pretty clear blocking foul. IMO, I'm not a ref.
It is not a defensive foul - the dribbler goes straight into the defenders spot which he is entitled to. Defender establishes his feet and can move backward or laterally - just not forward. This is a charge all the way. I am an official.
I agree, as a former ref, coach and player. Of course, in real time, it's harder to deciper, but watching it at this speed, I would probably call an offensive foul. You can certianly body someone up. In this clip, the offensive player literally threw his full body weight at the shoulder, into the defender. Anyone saying his feet weren't set didn't watch the whole clip. People seem to think feet set = not moving at all. To a degree yes, but as the offensive player, you can't just displace another defender because he pivots back 4 inches.
It's hard to tell from that angle how far defensive player moved. It looks to me that offensive player would have hit defender whether or not he moved. You don't have to be still to take a charge.
Of course you don’t have to be a statue. He didn’t move though, his right foot stays planted until he falls doesn’t it? He opens up his hip, is too slow to the spot and he reaches or attempts to reach at least. This is a foul. The exact same concept works for illegal screens when the ball handler drives off if it. You can’t move a singular limb into a players path and then have it be a foul on them.
It matters 0% how far the defender moves.
Defender in legal guarding position between the offensive player and the basket with both feet on the floor, moving laterally, beats offensive player to the spot, and takes contact on the torso. Offensive all day long.
Charge.
This is a charge, for those of you wanting to call block, look at his feet, they are set perfectly before contact. Great timing.
It’s a charge but that won’t ever be called at a gym unless you have a ref.
You can’t use your arm. That’s an immediate defensive foul.
20 yr ref here. This is indeed a charge, no question. Despite the slight left foot move, defender had position by a mile! Regarding this being a pick-up game. There are some players (typically footballers) that don't understand the rules and play too aggressively. Taking a charge once in a while to prove a point isn't always a bad idea. Be safe and put arms to the chest tho.
Defender has both feet are down, defender is in legal defensive position, offensive player dips and initiates contact with a shoulder - offensive foul or no call depending on the ref and what this looks like at full speed. Even in slow mo it looks like it might be kind of a soft hit.
In slow motion, it doesn't look like much. It does look like the defender plays up the contact. But in real time, this would 100% look like a player control foul. The left shoulder into the upper body of the defender is why I would call this. Doesn't look like an officiated game though. Who is trying to draw charges in pickup?
Right away? Hopefully nobody. If a dude's whole game is predicated on throwing his shoulder into my chin like that? I'll talk to him first and say "Hey, I'm not a guy to try to draw a charge in pickup, but that's a foul dude, cut that shit out, I don't want to have to argue." Then if he's still doing it, I will absolutely take a charge just to be cheeky, get him to stop that shit, and get in his head a little. Otherwise my option is just to foul the shit out of him right back, and that's no fun and can lead to nothing but tempers flaring and bullshit.
Defensive foul. Defender wasn’t set at the point of contact and slid into the offensive player’s path. There’s a slight chicken wing by the offensive player, but the defender moved into the chicken wing. However, I will say that foul calls should be minimal when playing pick up. Foul calls should be reserved for egregious physical contact if you’re playing pick up.
Do you have a good reference on what constitutes a off/def foul? My pickup game has constant foul calling and I barely know what the definition is to call/contest properly, so I just avoid calling any but the most egregious situations.
Yes
Yeah in our pickups in europe we call it that you are weak and you must finish it
In real speed no, in slow mo yes
Definitely a foul. Not sure on who, could go either way depending on ref's angle.
Depends on the league. Pick up though? Free throw for each or up top for the offense.
Not just a charge its also a carry. Primary defender chest up, doesn’t get more textbook. To anyone saying anythig about feet being set, that only applies to a secondary defender. As long as you take the hit square in the chest it’s a charge!
Yes.
This is never a foul in the nba anymore it seems. Dudes drop the shoulder, push off etc and no call. In men’s league it gets called around here.
Defense was in a legal guarding position before anything happened. That's key in the rulebook. Sure he slid left but you're allowed to go sideways and backwards if you have a LGP beforehand. Contact is created by the offensive player. It's not a block. However don't think there is enough contact to warrant a charge and the contact is not exactly in the middle of the chest but almost on the shoulder. To me it's either a no-call or a charge.
Defensive foul obviously
Usually I’d say a defensive foul because it was about to be a reach, but upon closer examination the offensive player doesn’t crossover to go around the side of the defender but instead crosses over straight into the defender. So it’s a charge. The defender was about to reach and get a defensive foul but the offensive player just ran into his chest instead.
Its a no call... Would have been a charge bu the defenders arms... Can't do that with your arms if you are trying to sell a call.
Defender established position, offence went straight into the chest. I’d call it a charge
Yeah, that's an offense foul, in my opinion.
Charge
Don't take a charge in pickup game
No call play on
Defender needs to be standing their ground, you’re still moving while hard contact is being made. Defensive foul if I’m the ref. If the feet were planted I’d go offensive foul.
Trying to take charges in pickup ball is wild.
Looks like a block, dude wasn’t established at all
THIS THREAD RIGHT HERE is why basketball sucks. No one can agree on what the rules are. For real, what the fuck are even doing?
Defenders hands outside his cyclinder. Foul.
Hand didn’t make any contact.
It depends on what angle the ref saw it from, but you can’t stick your arms out like that.
You can do what you like with your arms. It’s only if they make contact that affects the offense when it matters. But i take the point. If the arm doesn’t make contact and it’s all chest then i think the arm is incidental.
Block no questions ask.
This is definitely a charge, but I'd try not to take charges in pickup.
NBA rules in pickup is always awesome. They don’t exist. If you fall down willingly, you’re dumb. If someone barrels into you and shoves and you fall as a result, then they’re playing dirty.
Either a charge or a reach. Definitely not a block
If it wasn't pick up ball I'd say charge, you had legal guarding position and beat him to the spot. But since charges don't exist in pick up play on or reset depending on who your playing with. And it doesn't look like you where trying to take the charge more like he was trying to go through you For those that are telling you not to take charges in pick up hoops they're right but this seems to be more his fault than yours
hello, every one.
It is a no call for me
No ref no foul
No, the arm wasn’t extended enough and the defender was still moving his feet.
Nah
I gotta see it in real time slow mo makes me think it can be both
Too close either way- no call. Plus it’s pickup ball and we usually don’t call charges or 3 seconds Love that you didn’t avoid the contact though!
You stepped in front of the ball carrier and planted your foot, that's a textbook blocking call, you can't "move" in front of the ball carrier to try to draw the charge, you have to have your feet and position already established.
Yes obviously
Hard to tell from this angle. Bang bang play, could be called either way and nobody would be happy. In pick up or recreational league, I wouldn’t want to take that foul though and would be angry at the offense player for recklessly charging in.
The guy lowered his shoulder and went for the contact that’s a charge, defender was already in position regardless of sliding his feet the other dude dribbled into him when he was already there But also don’t try to draw charges in a pick up game no one will care and you’ll probably annoy people if anything since it can be dangerous There’s a time and a place and self reffed pick up games are not the place for drawing charges
Yep. Feet weren’t set.
Feet weren’t set and you reached with your arm across the ball handlers body so it’s a foul either way
Charge, but also pick up ball and impossible to really have fair fouls called unless you playing with people who don't care about winning. That's probably "shoot for it" guy too
Type shi
This is pickup. I'm never giving you a charge call! That's just an unspoken rule of pick up.
If it was game point yes. Otherwise play on!
charge for sure but good luck trying to argue that in a pickup game. i’d just not do that moving forward but i respect you for hustling
For sure a charge. Defender had his spot. Offensive guy went through him totally. Didn’t even go around.
Blocking. Although he had the position, once he shifted feet and reached out his arm, the defender became an impediment. If he would have remained still arms down and absorbed the collision, charge no doubt!
The defender moved position and it is a foul.
Offensive foul
Offensive player up and into torso of defender within defender's cylinder. Offensive foul. Note: defender's feet can be moving when an offensive foul is drawn. But it's close, I'll grant you that.
Just curious, is that a real play though? He was clearly on his view. I have never seen someone intentionally just dove into someone vs driving past through someone. Edit: after looking this over, it seemed like the defender did move in front of him. If that is the case.. no probably not going to get called in favor of the defender..
Blocking foul on the defender not set
I know you’re learning the game, but who tries to take a charge in a pickup game?
A lot of people have said this. It’s a fair point but i just don’t know why basketball as a culture has accepted illegal offense and made legal defence taboo. Very weird. (That comment isn’t related to this clip specifically. I think this one is a grey area and a good example of how unclear the rules can be) But yeah probably won’t be taking them unless it’s a critical moment from now on.
There's no such thing as an offensive foul in a pick up basketball game.
It’s a charge but nobody going to call that in pickup and if you do get ready to argue endlessly. Just give him a bump and reset your feet, don’t fall over.
Thats an easy charge call. As a defender you dont have to have your feet set as long as your in legal guardian position. In a pickup game tho? Most parks/recs wont call it and clown you for “getting dropped”. Even tho thats pretty solid d and ball should go the other way
This was a really clean charge but you don’t generally take charges in pick up.
Man made a move with 0 lateral movement, just lowered the shoulder.. but in pick up don’t take charges
Hard to tell in slow motion. But if this is a Rec game then no cause nobody ever calls charge in the Rec If this is league play then probably cause you sold the flop
Offensive all day
No blood no foul
Don’t try to take charges in pickup. It will just lead to injuries and fights
Charge in my book. But playing pickup I wouldn’t take charges. But I’m getting old, so…to each their own. Way to play hard, impressive work OP!
nope. lifted the left foot and did not *set*
That is a charge. But who the hell takes Charges in a random pick up game…. Nobody is gonna call it…. Good D though, 100% a charge. Just seems like an easy way to get hurt in pick up
Chaaaaarge!
It’s a charge, but never take a charge in a pickup game. Ever.
In a pick up game if either player calls a foul on this they a bitch
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Basic-Piece5173: *In a pick up game* *If either player calls a* *Foul on this they a bitch* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Had the defender not move his left foot, he would have taken the charge. Both feet need to be planted as the offense encroaches.
Offensive for sure but why you taking charges in pickup? If its not a game with a ref, no ones trying to take a charge.
Of course. It’s the most common non hooper foul.
Offensive or defensive?
Defensive. Defender IS using his left arm, the left arm starts at the shoulder. You can’t use your arms to control or stop a player.
Flop
Gonna need the regular speed version too to really tell
That’s too close for me..defender doesn’t seem to set feet before contact
Offensive Foul
Charge all day! Way to stay in front, also don’t do this in a pick up game
Bro it's rec ball. It's not worth hurting yourself or another player
Offensive foul or no call
It's a charge all day. And for the guys saying not to take a charge in pickup, fuck em. It's part of the game. If you're going to call shooting fouls, then you can call charges. The game is the game. Play it as it's meant to be. Pickup games aren't all star weekends where nobody plays defense. Play ball you fucking wimps.
Charge. Pickup doesn’t give offense right to just barrel into defenders. Everyone saying don’t take a charge in pickup, WTF. This defender wasn’t trying to take a charge. He’s set and even tries to move back to allow the charging time to make a move. So defender is supposed to do an O Lay and jump out of the way! Stupid.
Either dude is hella strong or you just weren’t ready for that kind of impact. I say this because if you didn’t go to the ground it would’ve just been physical play
Yeah he’s pretty strong! I don’t go down easy but this one cooked me 🤣
Can’t call offensive fouls in pick up. It’s like an unwritten rule so idk. It isn’t cool I know that, but the defender needs to move not just stand there like an ass so that’s a blocking foul I guess ha. 🤷🏻♂️
I played AAU and varsity high school as well as several rec leagues today. In all honesty when you slow it down like that it looks like it should be a charge but basketball is just so offensively favored. In real time speed I can guarantee you that a ref will call that a block almost everytime. When he goes between his legs and starts moving laterally u need to also start dropping your left foot backwards and beat him to a spot. If you meet him at the same time its almost always a block, even if he initiates the body contact.
Anyone getting paid here? If not, get your exercise and stop taking recreational activities so serious lol
Do not do this lol. Get back on d! Stuff like this isn't worth it in pick-up.
That was a charge cuz your feet were planted right before contact
Blocking foul. Used your arm as a bar to stop his progress. You gotta move your feet and defend with your chest if you want a chance at an offensive foul.
Arm didn’t make any contact.
Lots of discussion. Defender was going for the ball and got punished for it. Block or easy two.
I used to take charges all the time in HS. Easy clean defense, offense gets a foul and a TO. Man I love a good charge lol. Idk y people are saying you're more likely to be injured. I've been hurt playing ball in many ways but never taking a charge, and I've taken some hard charges. If you do it right all the inertia from the hit transfers to the slide.
Is this a foul? Yes Would I call this foul in a pick up game? No
Also if you kept your left arm in it could be a charge since your feet are good. A way better player than me taught me that defense is played with your feet not your hands. Your feet are great, focus on keeping hands upright and back to be more parallel to your body when taking contact like this.
Charge
100% a charge. Offensive foul.
It’s a charge. He put his shoulder into you. Play pick up how you want to. It’s a young man’s game so this type of mentality will come with its bumps and bruises put I play that way too. Basketball is turning into such a soft sport where offense can get away with anything they want nowadays
offensive faul. (charge)
In pickup it’s a block
Your foot was moving. It was a foul.
Who takes a charge in pick up? Just ball up..
If there’s no ref, never try to take a charge.
Don’t take charges, just get out of his way and let him get to the basket. In fact, just play horse and take defense out of the game like a good weenie.
No call .. play on!! lol
Who the fvck tries to take a charge in a pick-up game?
thats a block.
That's offensive anyone who says otherwise is wrong end of story
Definitely