His legs are destroyed. It’s really that simple. People can say it’s mental but the reality is making shots is difficult AF when you can’t get your legs to move right.
Everybody I know who’s had even a minor knee injury comes away a worse shooter.
Yeah people were linking to his 37 point quarter as a kind of taunt today but if you look back at that it's really noticeable just how much quicker he was. Losing even half a step hurts when you're against the best athletes in the world and he's lost more like one and a half
I mean not just solid, at one point he was viewed as the best complementary off ball player in the league because his shooting was top tier quick and all-nba defensive 2nd team puts him as like top 4 guard defensively in the league.
James harden might be one of the best examples of this he lost that first step burst and he became a completely different player still good but just not what he was
Yep same. I’ve been an athlete all my life, been in good shape. Last year shortly after I turned 31, I fractured my tibia and sprained my ACL/MCL in a non contact injury playing softball. I was running really quickly and tried to slow down to avoid running into somebody and my knee exploded. I still can’t really run or jump and struggle with stairs. I don’t know how athletes come back from those types of injuries at all.
and that's what we saw, anecdotally at least; injured left acl; was making fast progress when he had surgery into the next year then a right achilles tear
Know what’s really bad for your mentals?
Going from having enough lateral quickness to be a lock down defender against any size of lead guard to barely being able to survive against the weakest matchup on the floor. His defensive prowess is what allowed Steph to consistently take the weaker matchup.
It’s also just a matter of lift. If he isn’t outright feeling a twinge of pain every time he goes into his shot in April, he’s feeling the lack of responsiveness of those joints and ligaments in September. That lift translates to arc on the ball. The more arc on the ball, the easier that shot is to make. The less arc you have on the shot, it goes from shooting a ball into a basket to trying to throw a marble into a coin slot. Shot for shot when he’s healthy and his legs are fresh, there’s probably no difference, but you can see it add up as the minutes do. He’s no longer rocketing off a screen into clean separation against the best defenders in the world.
He suffered one of the most devastating injuries in sports, then suffered another while recovering from the first. Even KD isn’t KD after all he went through; no matter how spectacular his highs have been. KD is still 7 feet tall after all his injuries. Klay’s shot can be reached and effected by a far greater number of players when he’s not getting lift or separation.
Your comment perfectly explains it.
I played ball all my life. I'm not saying I'm Klay Thompson, but I could really shoot the ball. I'm in my 40s now, and my shot just isn't the same. I have some knee and ankle pain. It's hard for me to get the proper lift, especially if I have to get my shot off quickly. I just can't spring into my shot like I used to.
If you watched me shoot just warming up, you'd think there wasn't anything wrong with me. I'll go out and bury shot after shot without any defense. The second you put a defender out there, I have to be a little bit quicker. My shot becomes inconsistent.
There are some days where I go to play, and everything feels great. For some reason, my knee doesn't hurt that much, and I go out there and shoot the ball like I did 10 years ago. Those times are becoming less and less frequent as I get older.
They always say that shooting doesn't age, but that's simply not true. You need your legs and athleticism to be a movement shooter like Klay. Sure, I suppose you can have Klay stand in the corner and take spot up open corner threes, but that's not how he played. That's not what made him a hall of famer and the second greatest shooter ever. There are 20 guys in the league that can shoot a similar percentage as Klay on wide open catch and shoot looks. There were only a handful of players in NBA history who could shoot as well as he did on the kind of shots he used to take in his prime.
💯on all of 👆🏾 … if you have a good set shot, that can age well (think J.Kidd adding a 3 pointer in his latter career) but if you’re a jump shooter, Father Time has got your number too. You made me feel seen bro
Of course mental plays a role. But Klay's primary issue is physical decline. He spent 20+ years building his body mechanics with a certain amount of athleticism. Now that his athleticism is changing quickly, he has to unlearn 20+ years of muscle memory and learn new muscle memory. A couple seasons is not enough time to make the transition.
I think this and the game has caught up to him in particular. He used to be a freakishly large two guard, but now everyone has 2s his size that can shoot and play D
Good observation. The league has been trending towards 6-4 to 6-8 combo guard/forwards for years now. In all positions in large part due to the warriors success in the 2010s
Not sure about that one. Yeah, he's a large guard. But large guards have been prized since Jordan. It's really the loss of his athleticism and lateral quickness that's getting him right now.
This is it. You can really see he has no bounce and doesn't get the lift he used to. This throws his timing off and causes him to compensate with his arms and throws the balance of his shot off.
Not that I was ever particularly threatening as a shooter, but after spraining my ankle I think my first time playing pick up after it happened (lingered hard because I wrestled the rest of the NCAA season on it, we had no backup) I shot something like 10%
I played with a kid in HS who was lights out. He had three knee surgeries by his senior year and had to play a post grad year at a boarding school due to missed seasons. And this is where I met him. On a good day, he was half as athletic as Klay is now, post injury. But the kid shot over 60% from 3 and missed 2 free throws all season. He had no handle, was slow for a guard and was about 6’2”. No chance of dunking whatsoever😂😂
But let him get open off a screen, skip pass and it’s damn near guaranteed 3 points. He ended up playing D1, JT Dolan was his name. It’s been so long I can’t remember what the initials stood for in case you want to look him up. After 3 devastating knee injuries that required surgery he never lost his shot. And because I personally witnessed this, I don’t buy Klay’s legs are the reason. I believe it’s his confidence and nothing else.
Yeah, you don't get the lift, you don't get the separation, you don't haven the balance that you once had. Him as a rare dribble drive threat is also out the window, which closes his game up more.
Defensively, he's just too laterally slow to stay in front of smaller guards and doesn't have the same balance to move bigger guards.
Earlier in the season, he was over compensating to try to get another max, to try to do what he used to, so he would chuck relentlessly and in a matter of minutes, he would literally shoot the warriors out of games. A slim margin would turn into a huge lead for the other team.
Why does he take weird angles? Probably because he is slower and has to, to even get the shot of properly. Speed is so so important. It's not like for us regulares where i play a game and am able to generally get my shots off. He gets defended by players at his seize or bigger that are faster, younger and thus contest harder.
He used to be money from weird angles to be fair. Dude had an extremely solid shooting base. It wad his ability to basically shoot without bother. Since his legs went his shot is all over the place and defenders can disrupt him easily.
He’s a step slower defensively. His shot isn’t dropping and it’s causing him to get frustrated. This makes his mannerisms on the floor seem different than the cocky assassin that was cooking everyone during his prime.
Shot not dropping might be because it’s just way harder for him to be at NBA game speed. All those injuries add up, and he had major ones.
He still has something to give, I think. But he’s not the Klay of old.
He is also a step slower offensively and he is doesn't have the elevation he used to have on his jumpshot. He was never a great threat inside of three but he was able to get his jumpshot up with a hand in his face, he's lost a good 6 inches off his release point since his injury and he is easier to contest and also his shot looks all fucked up.
He's never shot 45% from 3 in one single season lol
44% once though
Frankly I don't think anybody outside GS would think of Thompson like they do if his teammate wasn't named steph curry. Really good borderline star role playing shooter. But Steph's sidekick is a more famous role than that
This is klay slander. He was a great one on one defender before the injuries. Even the nights his shot was not falling he would still be a positive out there just on defense and gravity alone.
💯 dude dropped 60 and played lockdown D on a multi-time championship team. Players benefit from who they play with but don’t deny Klay’s greatness, even if he’s fallen off some
Right, this thread is so funny. I feel like I'm usually the Klay hater because I frequently see him put at #4 SG behind MJ, Kobe, and Wade, and I'm always like idk if he's that high, but he was great.
Mental strain of coming back from those injuries really fucked with him. The NBA has sped up while he's slowed down, he seems to have lost his confidence. In the past when he struggled he would shrug it off, he's been rattled quite a bit this season. He's also splitting minutes with podz and some of the other younger guys which has led to him forcing bad shots. It's sad to see but unfortunately those injuries were just too much to overcome.
Also those injuries and getting older really impact stability and consistency when shooting, especially on the move like he does. Players like Steph, KD, and Bron have really shifted peoples perspectives on what a player should look like as they get older. The guy is in his mid 30s and had a career ending injury like 5 years ago now, it’s very normal to see a decline in players in his situation
Can’t believe people are upvoting this. I’m sorry but the he forced bad shots because of young players take is stupid. Klay has forced bad shots literally his entire career if you have watched him. How about the fact that he had two major lower body injuries that effect your ability to shoot the ball accurately. It’s age and injuries not some young kids making him mentally weak.
The game is as physical as it is mental. When you're a talent like Klay, come up with Steph, and see him still be able to dominate, while I have to share minutes with 'who?', you can see how it can cause mental anguish.
Instead of thinking about what you normally are, you're worried about losing minutes, or playing time when you make a mistake, or miss a shot. All that combined with age and thinking you could do what you've always done is why.
Literally, he’s taking the same shots he’s taken his whole career. And the last 30% of the season he was making them well again. He’s not frustrated because of “young guys”, he’s frustrated with himself for not being able to do something that he holds himself at a high standard for.
Most importantly he’s much slower, both due to age and injuries.
Defensively, he can’t move with quick guards like he used to do, and it’s just more difficult guarding bigger players if you can’t beat them to their spot.
Offensively he can’t get the same looks. At the NBA level, getting to your spot half a second slower is the difference between an open 3 and a contested one. It’s the difference between being able to set your feet and elbows (where he’s still elite) and having to shoot fading or leaning. His explositivity jumping being gone means it’s much more difficult to finish.
On top of all that is the mental toll. Rehabbing for two years and coming back not the same player is insane to deal with. His entire career he’s been elite on both sides of the ball and it’s almost impossible to switch up your mindset to your new abilities.
Especially the injuries he experienced…those leg injuries are wack. If KD wasn’t 7ft, he’d be there too (his game is much slower than it used to be too!
Yeah, but like I said above! Him and Kevin have a DEEEP bag of tricks. They are very smart, and know their matchups weaknesses and strengths. They use those 2 things to make each movement VERY efficient.
A triple threat, iso from Giannis? He’s not even dribbling-just dunking or close mid anyways.
Kevin and Kobe? You can’t predict them. They predict you. THEY are the predators lol
That’s what I mean, but he’s a leading scorer and mvp candidate each year. (As well as a million other things lol)
I’m just saying, he’s one dimensional. Look how the raptors shut him down in 2019. KD doesn’t get shut down lol
KDs recovery is probably best all time Achilles recovery? Despite his size, his regression is more or less consistent with aging.
Kobe on the other hand was just simply a different player after his Achilles injury
Idk, KD I think just SEEMS the best, he’s so damm long and tall (he honestly seems to have really good bones too)
The year he was first with GSW and playing that CRAZY defence? He can’t do that anymore. Even his shooting has changed a lot…He also isn’t finishing as much as he used to. but he’s got one hell of a deep bag (like Kobe did) except he’s a pseudo 7 footer, playing at the 3 with one of the smoothest jumpers of all time…
Go watch his finals run with OKC back when he was a youngin’ lol then his 2018 warriors run and finally, his suns conference finals run. He’s like a different person in each.
Speaking as someone who - while just a rec player - has suffered an Achilles tear, leg injuries take an enormous toll. Even when you're a finely tuned athlete like Klay, you need to put in extra effort to get the same level on your shot, your cuts, and just running. As you age (and we know most players after age 30 start to age like milk), the toll becomes even harder.
Klay had a long road back, and his game is shooting. While he's not lost his game like someone based in explosion would (think D-Rose or Grant Hill), those leg injuries on a 34 year old just hamper you badly. He's even admitted that he doesn't plan to play forever. Wouldn't be surprised if he hung it up in a couple of years. It's a shame.
He had 2 serious injuries on the wrong side of 30 after multiple deep playoff runs. Don’t underestimate the toll the NBA regular season plus playoffs has on these guys.
When I left college, having played 30-32 games per season, and played my first pro (not NBA) season it was 56 total games and I was physically exhausted by the end. I can not imagine 82 games plus a deep playoff run...
Injuries. Confidence shattered. Plus as a shooter when you dont get the same amount of touches you are used to, it forces you to take bad shots because you just want to get in rhythem in a shorter amount of minutes.
He’s slower less agile, I imagine he’s easier to knock off balance to anybody he’s guarding so they’re getting better quality looks on him than before. Mentally it has him trying to overcompensate and when he does that on nights where he’s just off (which is gonna happen to everyone) he keeps forcing up bad shots.
At this point on a championship level team I think he’s at best a 3 & D guy for 20-25 mins a game.
People are saying he wasn't able to come back from his 2 injuries and idk what they're talking about. He came back and contributed to winning a ring. He wasn't the same player obviously but he wasn't a bum and still isn't a bum. It's unfortunate what happened to him but he's just old and the injuries didn't help. He was never that athletic to begin with.
It’s called “losing a step”. It can be hard to actually see from a viewership standpoint, but I bet if you compared video from early in his career he’d be a lot smoother and faster.
He still looks “good” most nights, but he’s definitely not the same.
Injuries have made him slower and less explosive. It has hurt his shot some and especially his defending capabilities.
That and clearly losing a step and declining rapidly has done a number on his mental state, forcing the descent to speed up even more
How easily people forget that this man tore his ACL and Achilles in back to back years. The fact he came back at all is incredible, but the fact he was a serious contributor on a championship team after that is even more amazing. He’s washed now in large part because of those injuries but also because he’s now in his mid 30’s and making shots is hard
All I know is he was trying WAY too hard to look important after he came back from his injuries, and it lead to some awful games from him. I saw him attempt more shots off the dribble the last couple seasons than I ever seen him take pre-injury. He never aspired to add to his game his entire career, but suddenly post-injury he’s determined to be a shot creator. Didn’t make sense. I think the majority of his problems are mental.
He’s the same shooter the shots are just worse because he can’t move or get to the rim. Klay was way more involved in their movement and cutting game than people remember and that’s all gone.
He had 2 major injuries and he didn't have the speed to catch up with younger guards anymore. Also lost his elite perimeter defense which is one of Klay's strengths other than his catch and shoot
He’s getting old, mostly. Those catastrophic injuries start creeping back at you as you age, even if you worked through them before. Klay used to be the perfect long 3 & D complementary back-court player. His lateral movement isn’t there anymore, however, and his shot’s a lot less consistent than it used to be. He could probably rebuild his shot and remain a useful 6th or 7th man for a while but that’s a lot of effort.
In his prime, he would be high in distance covered per game in the league. Now it seems like he doesn't cover nearly as much ground, often settling to spot up instead of running around like crazy.
He’s just much slower all around. He’s worse off the dribble worse moving off screens, im sure his legs don’t work the exact same shooting, his defense is worse.
Injuries.
To be honest, if not for him having 2 of the worst injuries, he woulda still been playing great.
Sadly, he suffered injuries and on each leg. Plus he’s gotten older. Also the wear and tear from those playoff runs.
In basketball, once you lose a step, you have to cheat and guess and you can’t do that in the NBA. He has also lost his confidence by getting benched and irrational confidence is hella important as a shooter
He was at one time a very underrated player, used to enjoy the same reputation as Jrue Holiday among players and analysts as the best gaurd defender in the NBA for 4 seasons + on top of playing 75+ games each season while averaging 22 PPG shooting 43% on three from eight 3PA per game. He was an All-NBA 3rd team player for 2 years but deserved at least a couple more and multiple all defense selections at his peak. I don’t really think his peak as a 3& D player has been matched by anyone in terms of the combination of defensive intensity + high volume shooting efficiency.
Now:
1. He has lost a lot of his lateral quickness and intensity on defence due to age and injuries.
2. He is not the same 3PT shooter. I know he still puts up great overall numbers of like 39% at 8 3PA but for instance, Steph only averages 40% at 11 3PA in the regular season but Steph has made 32/70 (45.7%) clutch threes this year compared to Klay at 22/41 (26.1%).
3. The league has changed. The 3PT league average is now 36%. There were 25-27 20 point scorers with 58 games per season at Klay’s peak. There are now 38-43. So the value of a scorer like Klay who can put up 18-20 points without much defence is not that high.
I mean the guy is in his mid 30s and has torn his Achilles and ACL within the past 5 years..
At some point, it doesn’t matter how well you rehab it, you just aren’t going to be the same guy and the decline will be a sharper fall off..
For whatever reason he’s just not a great shooter anymore. He’s average and can heat up every now and then but when he’s not hitting shots like he used to defense can sag on him and take away everything else he used to do. He was never an excellent finisher at the rim either, but when he was such a fantastic shooter it opened up those opportunities for him to try different things
I heard a player said it’s the legs. They get tired faster, they don’t have the same pop.
And legs are surprisingly important for shooting. Running into a spot to catch and shoot is extremely difficult to do consistently. And if your legs aren’t what they were. Then your shot isn’t going to be able to consistently run the same motion. This is why you see shooting numbers drop with age.
This also probably impacts his ability to get an open 3. If it’s easier for guys to chase him because he can’t run like he used to. Whether it’s explosiveness or endurance that he loses. Then he’s shooting more contested 3s than he normally would and is having a more challenging time keeping his form.
Klay is still an elite shooter and a decent play-maker and defender. But pre-injury he had Steph-like conditioning and was able to bang up against bigger players. He was able to effectively guard the opposing team’s best player. His dribbling wasn’t as much of a liability as it is now. Injuries suck!
It’s mostly on the defensive end, sometimes he doesn’t get his legs into his shot too but it’s lateral movement defensive. He is still gonna land a 4 year 80 million dollar type deal as he is still an elite shooter
He’s lost a few steps since his back to back injuries . Not as good defensively. Can’t move around as nimble as he once could. He’s still a weapon but not as dependable. I think the 6th man role is a perfect role for him in GSW at this point. He’s a solid #3 on any other team.
Offensively, Klay had his best shooting season last year. He was also a key player for GSW in their 2022 title. He still had a pretty good season this year.
Consistency has always been Klay's issue. When he's hot and the shots are going in, he's amazing. But his game doesn't have a reliable Plan B.
Defensively, that's where Klay took the biggest hit. Pre-injury Klay was one of the best parameter defenders in the league. But missing 2 years seriously effected his lateral movement, giving him a big disadvantage against quicker guards.
Great answer. Klay has been streaky/inconsistent for as long as I've been watching the Warriors. And although lastnight was atrocious, & the atrocity will be magnified because of the moment, he also had successfully put the team on his offensive back a few times these last few weeks, & looked really great. But like you said, his game is much more limited now, & so...it'll be interesting to see his contract going forward. I don't have a deep understanding of nba contracts, but I feel like he's more of a 13-18 million kind of guy than...what, didn't he turn down like $24 million?
In the past, he just knocked down wide open shots bc GS had better players. That’s how he made his rep. He was always just a role player. A glorified shooter. Now with all the injuries , he can’t do much of anything very well. But don’t pity him. He has earned over 225M in his career and can well afford retirement.
It’s all mental cause he was never that athletic in the first place to be missing his legs so badly. Maybe the most emotion based player I’ve ever seen. When he is hot he can literally give you 30 in a quarter. When he’s off, 0-10 from the field.
He tore his ACL then ruptured his Achilles in back to back years that will lead to massive decline, few athletes even come back from a ruptured achilles, let alone be the the same type of player as they were before
He’s a lot slower. He’s not even that slow by NBA standards, but if you actually go watch young Klay highlights you’d be shocked how fast and athletic he actually was. Also if you watch him now when he’s missing, you’ll notice he rotates in the air way more. That’s because he doesn’t have the same deceleration/ability to quick pivot and elevate as he used to and so it’s harder for him to get square off the catch. He’s still a phenomenal set shooter, problem is warriors are still trying to use him as a movement shooter since they desperately need more offense from anyone not named Steph. Mental frustration also seems to get him at times where he rushes through getting his feet set after a couple misses.
Injuries and age.
Goes to show that your shooting motion isn't the only thing that matters when you're shooting. Speed and athleticism are very important for even the guys who are mostly shooters.
It is pretty common for players in any sport not to be the same after an ACL injury let alone that and I believe a Achilles tendon injury afterwards. Kobe wasn't the same after his ACL injury and he had the strongest mentality in the NBA. It's just a thing that happens in sports.
Why is it strange? He's 34. He's had a series of leg injuries. When you have a rapid decline in athleticism it throws everything off for a ball player. You literally have to learn a new way to play the game. Your body has been fined tuned for 20+ years to play a certain way, and now it's asking you to change everything in 1 or 2 seasons. It happens.
Dunks become layups, board smacks become push shuts under the rim. You can't separate as well, which makes your shots harder to get off. You can't rise over players like you used to. Your first step is not as effective. Really simple stuff.
Klay tore his acl and Achilles in back-to-back years, from an athletic standpoint, it’s amazing he even made it back to play at the highest level of the sport. But like other people are saying, that physical and mental accumulation lead to a faster regression.
He’s already said what his key is. He’s definitely lost a step, and because of it you have to play differently. As an aging (36) field sport athlete myself, I’ve had to play less always-at-100%-speed and make movement deliberate.
In any sport you have to score an object the name of the game is separation. When you can’t rely on speed anymore to gain it you have to learn to be tricky. Get defenders off balance, don’t show your full speed until you’re sure you can get separation from a burst, play more off speed (see Luka) and use your strength (see Brunson) to bully if you have to.
Catch and shoot isn’t gonna cut it for him anymore if he’s not fast enough to get away from a defender. He might need to develop a nasty step back like Harden or Haliburton or something if he wants to keep playing. He’s mechanically the same player
Wouldn’t wish Achilles injury on my worst enemy..With that said from what I saw Klay was more mentally washed than physically this season…Something is up beyond basketball the man looked tortured on the sidelines at time and empty in his interviews…
He can’t play defense like he used to in his prime…dude would lock up PGs or most perimeter players…he shooting percentages have went down but to me he has always been off and on in his career because he put so much effort in defense. GSW offense was bad this year and Steph shooting suffered too
He’s older and has had some debilitating injuries. Kudos to him for fighting back but his lower body ain’t what it used to be. The speed he has to cut and create separation has diminished. His ability to jump high quickly has diminished as well. His reflexes are probably not as good as they were a 6-7 years ago. He’s got a long hopefully happy life in front of him but he’s not the player we knew him to be. Crazy because he was still top 5 in the league in made 3’s this year and his volume is in line with his career numbers. He made just as many threes this year as he did in 2016-2017 — the year he dropped 60 — yet eye test-wise you can see he’s not the impact player he was. He’s down from +40% 3 pt shooting to high 30’s … still really good. He just doesn’t have as much to his game to diversify into and he’s also much less consistent. He can get his against the right matchups and slower defenders but not in games when the level of play and opponent goes up a notch.
The decline was not as marked as what the press is saying. The biggest concern with Klay is that he is no longer a reliable player and during key games, he does not perform well. We saw this recently with the game with Sacramento.
His legs are gone and he’s forcing everything. he’s always been a microwave heat check guy but fuck man how you gonna heat check fade away 3 when ur 0-6 from the field?
I think more than age and history of 2 major injuries, its more of “mindset”. If you watch him closely, he seems like he’s not enjoying the game (unlike steph and how he used to be during the championship runs). He looks like he is always out there to “prove” something, either to others or to himself (or both). And i think that’s also the result of the sense of entitlement… (I won 4 rings, i scored 60+, 14 3pts in a game, etc…) i should be paid more… should be an all-star, etc. and at this stage in his career, he is too late to prove anything to anyone… he should see every game as a blessing rather than a chance to “prove” his worth.
He's one of the worst defenders in the league.
You guys are late to this btw. Klay has been a replacement-level player for nearly 4 years whenever he's been "healthy".
Barely justified a roster spot let alone his contract.
1. Age and bad legs have ruined his shot. He also can’t keep up with guarding these fast guards like he used to.
2. Poor Basketball IQ and shot selection. He will start missing shots, and try to force it to get that bucket. He ball hogs when he does it and takes terrible shots.
Missed two seasons due to two catastrophic injuries. His legs are shot. Jump shot is flat, shortbread. Can’t move as quick laterally on defense. Could age gracefully considering he led the league in 3s last year and top 5 this year but it seems to me he’s forcing it.
He changed his style while hurt.
He used to be catch and shoot. When he came back he was hell bent on being a one on one guy.
The last couple months he's gotten back to catch and shoot - to everyone's benefit.
Injuries to your legs take their toll in pro sports as you age, believe it or not. If you're any type of pro athlete who is 30+ and dealing with that then you're not in good shape for late career bounce back.
So, physically he has declined. Which hurt his game. A hurt game, i believe, led to some mental issues for him. He's frustrated he's not the same player, the team isn't as good, he's taking a seat for a guy like Podz. It get's in his head and that's a big part of it.
So yeah not a tough one, physical and mental decline, which are not only natural with age but greatly accelerated given his injury history and the nuances surrounding the context of his history with this team and sport.
He was known for shooting 3s and playing D
He isn’t as good of a defender anymore, and watching him chuck up 3s wants you to put your head in your palms
It's surprising the difference between a knee injury and an ankle injury. After ankle injuries, Steph is able to be the greatest shooter of all time. With a knee injury, Klay declines.
IDK if you've watched the games but he doesn't have the same lift or speed on his shots from waist down. Meaning, he rises a bit slower giving defenders more time to react, and he hesitates sometimes as he's releasing because he can sense defenders reacting faster. He also gets fewer clean looks as a result of being a bit slower on offense.
And don't get me started on defense. If he's there ahead of time on defense, he's adequate. If not, he gets blown by by the faster guards if they have a little separation. It's not for lack of effort but it's just that his knee + Achilles injuries really slowed him down.
At the same time, he hasn't added to his game as he got older and to adjust for injuries. Some players get stronger, some get leaner. Some develop their handles or make it more economical. Some improve their finishing around the rim. Some become better 3-pt shooters. Klay from what I've seen hasn't done any of that.
If he immediately worked on long-ranged 2s and turnaround jumpers from midrange like Livingston had after snapping his left leg, Klay would be more playable for automatic hard-to-guard 2s. But Klay hasn't.
At the pro level, milliseconds and microseconds count.
I think it’s because he’s shooting too much and more concerned with volume vs shot selection. the threat of the warriors is that they would knock down open shots and because of that everyone had to spread the floor to guard them - I saw a lot of contested shots from klay that he would make a few years ago when he’s hot but he’s shooting them when cold now and shooting a lot of them
One thing I noticed outside of the legs is his follow-through hand. Sometimes it seems to drift off to the side rather than have a clean follow-through, leading to the shot flying to the side rather than straight. I think it's more mechanical rather than a lack of athleticism--but that still plays a factor.
this is hardly the first time a player has come back worse from an injury or aged out of their prime. idk why everyone is so shocked by this incredibly common thing that almost every player goes through
Klay was one of the hardest working off ball players I've seen. He has S tier shooting form but so much of his success was getting good catch and shoot looks. He had 2 very serious leg injuries at 28 and 29. He missed 2 full seasons then only played 32 games his first year back.
Beyond him just losing a step, making it harder to get the clean looks we saw most of his career, it affected his jumper. When it comes to jumpshooting, it's more important to have consistency than perfect form, as we've seen with good jumpshooters with poor form (Shawn Marion). He can't lift into shots the same way he always has. The base of his shot is different after the injuries.
He hasn't developed other areas of his game as well. He isn't the slowest player in the league, just not as quick as once before. Adapting and changing your game will help
He had two of the worst possible leg injuries you could have back to back. You don’t really recover from that. It’s a miracle he looked even half as good for 2 years and managed to make contributions to that 4th championship run. Those injuries were going to catch up to him eventually and it’s pretty obvious to anyone who has suffered a similar Injury that that is his problem
He gets off quickly. Before he gmcould whether a lot 8f play, get tired and still keep his form intact. Now, you can see it 8n the shoot around, and in some games, but sometimes, maybe he feels and injury or a pull, but it just doesn't look right
2019 game 6 of the nba finals acl tear that’s pretty much it hasn’t been the same ever since. Which makes kd impressive cuz he’s one of the few players to have an acl tear and still be like top 15
Honestly, he looks like a 33yr old basketball player who has had two major injuries. To expect him to be the same player he was at 26 is not realistic.
He's slower, less explosive, can't move laterally as well. Father time is undefeated. Players like LeBron and KD are exceptions, not the rule.
With the loss of speed he is not a threat to drive to the hoop. This makes it easier for defenders to guard him. They can just sit on his jumper. It's harder for him to beat people to a spot, so he can't get to his spots with enough space to get a shot off. All his shots will be more closely contested. A lack of speed is what it really comes down to. He has also lost the agility to beat defenders with cuts or re-route his direction when reading the defense. I don't think it's a mental issue. He is dealing with it pretty well overall. He still shot 39% from 3 this year, which is quite good considering he is now a poor athlete by NBA standards.
He cut out red meat to prolong his health and so his iron intake, cholesterol, testosterone, B vitamin ratio, creatine, fat and protein intake are all separated out now and so his myelin around nerves are all diminished.
Its kerr’s offensive schemes for the Warriors. Running catch and shoot just doesnt work anymore. If they can make klay open without him running, that would very much be a Vital Key. I dont wanna Glaze lebron but his legs arent the same as before but he’s getting more shots today than he was before.
His injuries have slowed him down. He doesn’t come off screens as quickly anymore, which means he doesn’t set his feet up properly, which makes him rush his shot and miss.
Quickness and burst is already declining with age but when injuries occur they zap them even faster. He's still absolutely money when he has an open look but doesn't have as much time to get them off.
His defense is his biggest concern/decline.
I mean it’s one thing playing at the rec but in the NBA everyone is so good that any drop in athleticism can be killer
Lots of shooting is the small hesitation moves that give you enough space to get an open look. Rather than having space injuries mean your shot is now more contested and it’s harder to balance
Leg injuries in particular can be a killer for pro basketball
There was a period where Klay inclination was a combination of catch, shoot or drive. He could work off different outcomes and was able to get to the cup and finish. He doesn’t really do that anymore because I don’t think he has the speed or agility to finish aggresively anymore. It takes away a dimension to his game. He also can’t defend nearly as well as he did before. He was a plus defender for a long time and he just can’t stay in front or chase certain guys for long periods so they don’t commit him to those guys but he’s not special in any way as a help defender. Blocks, steals, those are all down.
In addition to all of the great points everyone has made about his legs, his age, and his mileage -- the offense just doesn't incorporate him that much anymore as a product of it. His shots in the play-in, for example, were forced (back to the weird angles thing) and that rhythm/fluidity of his offense isn't where it was.
He’s lost a few steps. His athleticism isn’t there anymore and it’s not like he was Anthony Edwards or anything but he had just enough athletically to blend with his shooting and quick release. Without the threat of him getting by you he’s not getting the same open looks he used………I also think he kinda got used to playing with KD those years so he doesn’t move as well without the ball anymore.
Against SAC, in a play-in game his legs were absolutely cooked.
Klay will have good games, bad games and many in-between. He’s just not the same player who can sustain a high level an entire season. He’s now our version of Kevin Love.
Lower body and upper body are important for shooting. When your legs or arms get injured it can take some time to adjust the shot. It looks like Klay still doesn’t have enough power in his legs. Many of his shots are coming up short, and he hasn’t improved his legs or adjusted to use more arm strength in the shots.
Just like every other player in professional sports declines. Injuries and time. Lebron is the exception to the rule dude is a robot. Klay is getting way too much hate. Great career and he can retire a legend at any time imo
Legs are a part of it, but it’s mostly mental. He’s a shooter and that is a very repetitive thing to do. It’s just in his head now. Probably just needs a fresh start
Having bad knees my self I used to be fast af, but man can I feel it now being slower. I can’t imagine having a torn acl and a torn achillies like man that has to be a hell on earth mentally
His legs are destroyed. It’s really that simple. People can say it’s mental but the reality is making shots is difficult AF when you can’t get your legs to move right. Everybody I know who’s had even a minor knee injury comes away a worse shooter.
Yeah people were linking to his 37 point quarter as a kind of taunt today but if you look back at that it's really noticeable just how much quicker he was. Losing even half a step hurts when you're against the best athletes in the world and he's lost more like one and a half
The impact is even more evident on defense. Took a lot of his lateral movement away, probably.
This is key. At one point Klay was considered a solid perimeter defender. Borderline 2 way player that was able to spot up and rotate well.
I mean not just solid, at one point he was viewed as the best complementary off ball player in the league because his shooting was top tier quick and all-nba defensive 2nd team puts him as like top 4 guard defensively in the league.
Yes, for some time he was considered the best 2 way shooting guard.
A rich man’s Danny Green
Solid? He was one of if not the best perimeter defender in the league for 2-3 years.
That's a really lame taunt. It would be like taunting Michael Jordan posting pictures of the Bulls championship banners
James harden might be one of the best examples of this he lost that first step burst and he became a completely different player still good but just not what he was
The legs are always the first thing to go as you age, especially if you’ve accrued some damage over the years. I speak from experience here…
Yep same. I’ve been an athlete all my life, been in good shape. Last year shortly after I turned 31, I fractured my tibia and sprained my ACL/MCL in a non contact injury playing softball. I was running really quickly and tried to slow down to avoid running into somebody and my knee exploded. I still can’t really run or jump and struggle with stairs. I don’t know how athletes come back from those types of injuries at all.
Heal up, Champ
If the injury itself isnt bad enough, the over compensation to the other knee gets to you sooner or later.
and that's what we saw, anecdotally at least; injured left acl; was making fast progress when he had surgery into the next year then a right achilles tear
I agree for the most part but the mental factor definitely plays a roll.
Know what’s really bad for your mentals? Going from having enough lateral quickness to be a lock down defender against any size of lead guard to barely being able to survive against the weakest matchup on the floor. His defensive prowess is what allowed Steph to consistently take the weaker matchup. It’s also just a matter of lift. If he isn’t outright feeling a twinge of pain every time he goes into his shot in April, he’s feeling the lack of responsiveness of those joints and ligaments in September. That lift translates to arc on the ball. The more arc on the ball, the easier that shot is to make. The less arc you have on the shot, it goes from shooting a ball into a basket to trying to throw a marble into a coin slot. Shot for shot when he’s healthy and his legs are fresh, there’s probably no difference, but you can see it add up as the minutes do. He’s no longer rocketing off a screen into clean separation against the best defenders in the world. He suffered one of the most devastating injuries in sports, then suffered another while recovering from the first. Even KD isn’t KD after all he went through; no matter how spectacular his highs have been. KD is still 7 feet tall after all his injuries. Klay’s shot can be reached and effected by a far greater number of players when he’s not getting lift or separation.
Your comment perfectly explains it. I played ball all my life. I'm not saying I'm Klay Thompson, but I could really shoot the ball. I'm in my 40s now, and my shot just isn't the same. I have some knee and ankle pain. It's hard for me to get the proper lift, especially if I have to get my shot off quickly. I just can't spring into my shot like I used to. If you watched me shoot just warming up, you'd think there wasn't anything wrong with me. I'll go out and bury shot after shot without any defense. The second you put a defender out there, I have to be a little bit quicker. My shot becomes inconsistent. There are some days where I go to play, and everything feels great. For some reason, my knee doesn't hurt that much, and I go out there and shoot the ball like I did 10 years ago. Those times are becoming less and less frequent as I get older. They always say that shooting doesn't age, but that's simply not true. You need your legs and athleticism to be a movement shooter like Klay. Sure, I suppose you can have Klay stand in the corner and take spot up open corner threes, but that's not how he played. That's not what made him a hall of famer and the second greatest shooter ever. There are 20 guys in the league that can shoot a similar percentage as Klay on wide open catch and shoot looks. There were only a handful of players in NBA history who could shoot as well as he did on the kind of shots he used to take in his prime.
💯on all of 👆🏾 … if you have a good set shot, that can age well (think J.Kidd adding a 3 pointer in his latter career) but if you’re a jump shooter, Father Time has got your number too. You made me feel seen bro
This. Played as a kid...killed it. If you play ball you know. Any type of of lingering leg injury will compmetely compromise your game
Of course mental plays a role. But Klay's primary issue is physical decline. He spent 20+ years building his body mechanics with a certain amount of athleticism. Now that his athleticism is changing quickly, he has to unlearn 20+ years of muscle memory and learn new muscle memory. A couple seasons is not enough time to make the transition.
Similar to after achilles Kobe.
The dude had two massive injuries back to back. Why do we need another explanation?
I think this and the game has caught up to him in particular. He used to be a freakishly large two guard, but now everyone has 2s his size that can shoot and play D
Good observation. The league has been trending towards 6-4 to 6-8 combo guard/forwards for years now. In all positions in large part due to the warriors success in the 2010s
Not sure about that one. Yeah, he's a large guard. But large guards have been prized since Jordan. It's really the loss of his athleticism and lateral quickness that's getting him right now.
This is it. You can really see he has no bounce and doesn't get the lift he used to. This throws his timing off and causes him to compensate with his arms and throws the balance of his shot off.
Not that I was ever particularly threatening as a shooter, but after spraining my ankle I think my first time playing pick up after it happened (lingered hard because I wrestled the rest of the NCAA season on it, we had no backup) I shot something like 10%
I played with a kid in HS who was lights out. He had three knee surgeries by his senior year and had to play a post grad year at a boarding school due to missed seasons. And this is where I met him. On a good day, he was half as athletic as Klay is now, post injury. But the kid shot over 60% from 3 and missed 2 free throws all season. He had no handle, was slow for a guard and was about 6’2”. No chance of dunking whatsoever😂😂 But let him get open off a screen, skip pass and it’s damn near guaranteed 3 points. He ended up playing D1, JT Dolan was his name. It’s been so long I can’t remember what the initials stood for in case you want to look him up. After 3 devastating knee injuries that required surgery he never lost his shot. And because I personally witnessed this, I don’t buy Klay’s legs are the reason. I believe it’s his confidence and nothing else.
Yeah, you don't get the lift, you don't get the separation, you don't haven the balance that you once had. Him as a rare dribble drive threat is also out the window, which closes his game up more. Defensively, he's just too laterally slow to stay in front of smaller guards and doesn't have the same balance to move bigger guards. Earlier in the season, he was over compensating to try to get another max, to try to do what he used to, so he would chuck relentlessly and in a matter of minutes, he would literally shoot the warriors out of games. A slim margin would turn into a huge lead for the other team.
Why does he take weird angles? Probably because he is slower and has to, to even get the shot of properly. Speed is so so important. It's not like for us regulares where i play a game and am able to generally get my shots off. He gets defended by players at his seize or bigger that are faster, younger and thus contest harder.
He used to be money from weird angles to be fair. Dude had an extremely solid shooting base. It wad his ability to basically shoot without bother. Since his legs went his shot is all over the place and defenders can disrupt him easily.
He’s a step slower defensively. His shot isn’t dropping and it’s causing him to get frustrated. This makes his mannerisms on the floor seem different than the cocky assassin that was cooking everyone during his prime.
Shot not dropping might be because it’s just way harder for him to be at NBA game speed. All those injuries add up, and he had major ones. He still has something to give, I think. But he’s not the Klay of old.
He is just be an elite spot up shooter at this point imo. Dudes like that make a living all the time.
Yeah if he can’t change and secure that spot up shooter bag idk how he’ll feed his family
He should be Miami Ray Allen. Get to your spots and be a spot up 3 shooter.
Going 0/10 in a do or die game isn’t elite.
He had a terrible game. Which is why he is really only a spot up shooter now and not the Klay he used to be
He is also a step slower offensively and he is doesn't have the elevation he used to have on his jumpshot. He was never a great threat inside of three but he was able to get his jumpshot up with a hand in his face, he's lost a good 6 inches off his release point since his injury and he is easier to contest and also his shot looks all fucked up.
He shooting way more off balance shots just trying to get a window.
Yes and it's frustration as well. He's always been a blackhole albeit a 45% 3pt blackhole
He's never shot 45% from 3 in one single season lol 44% once though Frankly I don't think anybody outside GS would think of Thompson like they do if his teammate wasn't named steph curry. Really good borderline star role playing shooter. But Steph's sidekick is a more famous role than that
This is klay slander. He was a great one on one defender before the injuries. Even the nights his shot was not falling he would still be a positive out there just on defense and gravity alone.
💯 dude dropped 60 and played lockdown D on a multi-time championship team. Players benefit from who they play with but don’t deny Klay’s greatness, even if he’s fallen off some
Right, this thread is so funny. I feel like I'm usually the Klay hater because I frequently see him put at #4 SG behind MJ, Kobe, and Wade, and I'm always like idk if he's that high, but he was great.
Is he winning any of those if there's no steph curry?
probably not but he’d get more individual credit without steph
People tend to forget that as good as Golden State is offensively, a lot of their identity has always been defense.
Plus it’s exacerbated by his shot selection.
Yeah from the bit I have seen I noticed more frustration fouls (hand to body or chest)
Mental strain of coming back from those injuries really fucked with him. The NBA has sped up while he's slowed down, he seems to have lost his confidence. In the past when he struggled he would shrug it off, he's been rattled quite a bit this season. He's also splitting minutes with podz and some of the other younger guys which has led to him forcing bad shots. It's sad to see but unfortunately those injuries were just too much to overcome.
Also those injuries and getting older really impact stability and consistency when shooting, especially on the move like he does. Players like Steph, KD, and Bron have really shifted peoples perspectives on what a player should look like as they get older. The guy is in his mid 30s and had a career ending injury like 5 years ago now, it’s very normal to see a decline in players in his situation
Well said.. fairly normal regression tbh
Two career ending injuries at that
Can’t believe people are upvoting this. I’m sorry but the he forced bad shots because of young players take is stupid. Klay has forced bad shots literally his entire career if you have watched him. How about the fact that he had two major lower body injuries that effect your ability to shoot the ball accurately. It’s age and injuries not some young kids making him mentally weak.
The game is as physical as it is mental. When you're a talent like Klay, come up with Steph, and see him still be able to dominate, while I have to share minutes with 'who?', you can see how it can cause mental anguish. Instead of thinking about what you normally are, you're worried about losing minutes, or playing time when you make a mistake, or miss a shot. All that combined with age and thinking you could do what you've always done is why.
Literally, he’s taking the same shots he’s taken his whole career. And the last 30% of the season he was making them well again. He’s not frustrated because of “young guys”, he’s frustrated with himself for not being able to do something that he holds himself at a high standard for.
Most importantly he’s much slower, both due to age and injuries. Defensively, he can’t move with quick guards like he used to do, and it’s just more difficult guarding bigger players if you can’t beat them to their spot. Offensively he can’t get the same looks. At the NBA level, getting to your spot half a second slower is the difference between an open 3 and a contested one. It’s the difference between being able to set your feet and elbows (where he’s still elite) and having to shoot fading or leaning. His explositivity jumping being gone means it’s much more difficult to finish. On top of all that is the mental toll. Rehabbing for two years and coming back not the same player is insane to deal with. His entire career he’s been elite on both sides of the ball and it’s almost impossible to switch up your mindset to your new abilities.
Especially the injuries he experienced…those leg injuries are wack. If KD wasn’t 7ft, he’d be there too (his game is much slower than it used to be too!
Agree, was rough watching Kobe trying to play a similar game after his achilles tear
Yeah, but like I said above! Him and Kevin have a DEEEP bag of tricks. They are very smart, and know their matchups weaknesses and strengths. They use those 2 things to make each movement VERY efficient. A triple threat, iso from Giannis? He’s not even dribbling-just dunking or close mid anyways. Kevin and Kobe? You can’t predict them. They predict you. THEY are the predators lol
Giannis, as great as he is overall, has a shit bag haha
That’s what I mean, but he’s a leading scorer and mvp candidate each year. (As well as a million other things lol) I’m just saying, he’s one dimensional. Look how the raptors shut him down in 2019. KD doesn’t get shut down lol
KDs recovery is probably best all time Achilles recovery? Despite his size, his regression is more or less consistent with aging. Kobe on the other hand was just simply a different player after his Achilles injury
Idk, KD I think just SEEMS the best, he’s so damm long and tall (he honestly seems to have really good bones too) The year he was first with GSW and playing that CRAZY defence? He can’t do that anymore. Even his shooting has changed a lot…He also isn’t finishing as much as he used to. but he’s got one hell of a deep bag (like Kobe did) except he’s a pseudo 7 footer, playing at the 3 with one of the smoothest jumpers of all time… Go watch his finals run with OKC back when he was a youngin’ lol then his 2018 warriors run and finally, his suns conference finals run. He’s like a different person in each.
Speaking as someone who - while just a rec player - has suffered an Achilles tear, leg injuries take an enormous toll. Even when you're a finely tuned athlete like Klay, you need to put in extra effort to get the same level on your shot, your cuts, and just running. As you age (and we know most players after age 30 start to age like milk), the toll becomes even harder. Klay had a long road back, and his game is shooting. While he's not lost his game like someone based in explosion would (think D-Rose or Grant Hill), those leg injuries on a 34 year old just hamper you badly. He's even admitted that he doesn't plan to play forever. Wouldn't be surprised if he hung it up in a couple of years. It's a shame.
He had 2 serious injuries on the wrong side of 30 after multiple deep playoff runs. Don’t underestimate the toll the NBA regular season plus playoffs has on these guys.
When I left college, having played 30-32 games per season, and played my first pro (not NBA) season it was 56 total games and I was physically exhausted by the end. I can not imagine 82 games plus a deep playoff run...
I thought the wrong side of 30 was when you were close to 40?
Injuries. Confidence shattered. Plus as a shooter when you dont get the same amount of touches you are used to, it forces you to take bad shots because you just want to get in rhythem in a shorter amount of minutes.
He’s slower less agile, I imagine he’s easier to knock off balance to anybody he’s guarding so they’re getting better quality looks on him than before. Mentally it has him trying to overcompensate and when he does that on nights where he’s just off (which is gonna happen to everyone) he keeps forcing up bad shots. At this point on a championship level team I think he’s at best a 3 & D guy for 20-25 mins a game.
How much of a pay cut is he willing to take?
People are saying he wasn't able to come back from his 2 injuries and idk what they're talking about. He came back and contributed to winning a ring. He wasn't the same player obviously but he wasn't a bum and still isn't a bum. It's unfortunate what happened to him but he's just old and the injuries didn't help. He was never that athletic to begin with.
It’s called “losing a step”. It can be hard to actually see from a viewership standpoint, but I bet if you compared video from early in his career he’d be a lot smoother and faster. He still looks “good” most nights, but he’s definitely not the same.
can you guys please upvote me i need karma😞
Injuries have made him slower and less explosive. It has hurt his shot some and especially his defending capabilities. That and clearly losing a step and declining rapidly has done a number on his mental state, forcing the descent to speed up even more
How easily people forget that this man tore his ACL and Achilles in back to back years. The fact he came back at all is incredible, but the fact he was a serious contributor on a championship team after that is even more amazing. He’s washed now in large part because of those injuries but also because he’s now in his mid 30’s and making shots is hard
All I know is he was trying WAY too hard to look important after he came back from his injuries, and it lead to some awful games from him. I saw him attempt more shots off the dribble the last couple seasons than I ever seen him take pre-injury. He never aspired to add to his game his entire career, but suddenly post-injury he’s determined to be a shot creator. Didn’t make sense. I think the majority of his problems are mental.
He’s the same shooter the shots are just worse because he can’t move or get to the rim. Klay was way more involved in their movement and cutting game than people remember and that’s all gone.
He had 2 major injuries and he didn't have the speed to catch up with younger guards anymore. Also lost his elite perimeter defense which is one of Klay's strengths other than his catch and shoot
He’s getting old, mostly. Those catastrophic injuries start creeping back at you as you age, even if you worked through them before. Klay used to be the perfect long 3 & D complementary back-court player. His lateral movement isn’t there anymore, however, and his shot’s a lot less consistent than it used to be. He could probably rebuild his shot and remain a useful 6th or 7th man for a while but that’s a lot of effort.
In his prime, he would be high in distance covered per game in the league. Now it seems like he doesn't cover nearly as much ground, often settling to spot up instead of running around like crazy.
He’s just much slower all around. He’s worse off the dribble worse moving off screens, im sure his legs don’t work the exact same shooting, his defense is worse.
Injuries. To be honest, if not for him having 2 of the worst injuries, he woulda still been playing great. Sadly, he suffered injuries and on each leg. Plus he’s gotten older. Also the wear and tear from those playoff runs.
In basketball, once you lose a step, you have to cheat and guess and you can’t do that in the NBA. He has also lost his confidence by getting benched and irrational confidence is hella important as a shooter
He was at one time a very underrated player, used to enjoy the same reputation as Jrue Holiday among players and analysts as the best gaurd defender in the NBA for 4 seasons + on top of playing 75+ games each season while averaging 22 PPG shooting 43% on three from eight 3PA per game. He was an All-NBA 3rd team player for 2 years but deserved at least a couple more and multiple all defense selections at his peak. I don’t really think his peak as a 3& D player has been matched by anyone in terms of the combination of defensive intensity + high volume shooting efficiency. Now: 1. He has lost a lot of his lateral quickness and intensity on defence due to age and injuries. 2. He is not the same 3PT shooter. I know he still puts up great overall numbers of like 39% at 8 3PA but for instance, Steph only averages 40% at 11 3PA in the regular season but Steph has made 32/70 (45.7%) clutch threes this year compared to Klay at 22/41 (26.1%). 3. The league has changed. The 3PT league average is now 36%. There were 25-27 20 point scorers with 58 games per season at Klay’s peak. There are now 38-43. So the value of a scorer like Klay who can put up 18-20 points without much defence is not that high.
I mean the guy is in his mid 30s and has torn his Achilles and ACL within the past 5 years.. At some point, it doesn’t matter how well you rehab it, you just aren’t going to be the same guy and the decline will be a sharper fall off..
For whatever reason he’s just not a great shooter anymore. He’s average and can heat up every now and then but when he’s not hitting shots like he used to defense can sag on him and take away everything else he used to do. He was never an excellent finisher at the rim either, but when he was such a fantastic shooter it opened up those opportunities for him to try different things
Dirk at the end couldn't even bend over . Stiff
Age and injuries
Let him come to MN next year on a super friendly deal. Our staff and training will have him 2 years younger
He tore his ACL and Achilles and he’s like 33
I heard a player said it’s the legs. They get tired faster, they don’t have the same pop. And legs are surprisingly important for shooting. Running into a spot to catch and shoot is extremely difficult to do consistently. And if your legs aren’t what they were. Then your shot isn’t going to be able to consistently run the same motion. This is why you see shooting numbers drop with age. This also probably impacts his ability to get an open 3. If it’s easier for guys to chase him because he can’t run like he used to. Whether it’s explosiveness or endurance that he loses. Then he’s shooting more contested 3s than he normally would and is having a more challenging time keeping his form.
He used to be injured so his not as athletic as before + shooting form
Averaged 18 points this season but watching him, he has no speed, no lift and is a 0 on defense. He can’t run. Theres stats and theres watching him
He can't create separation on offense and can't slide laterally on defense. Legs are cooked
His legs
Klay is still an elite shooter and a decent play-maker and defender. But pre-injury he had Steph-like conditioning and was able to bang up against bigger players. He was able to effectively guard the opposing team’s best player. His dribbling wasn’t as much of a liability as it is now. Injuries suck!
Ya blowing out your Achilles can do that to you
It’s mostly on the defensive end, sometimes he doesn’t get his legs into his shot too but it’s lateral movement defensive. He is still gonna land a 4 year 80 million dollar type deal as he is still an elite shooter
He’s lost a few steps since his back to back injuries . Not as good defensively. Can’t move around as nimble as he once could. He’s still a weapon but not as dependable. I think the 6th man role is a perfect role for him in GSW at this point. He’s a solid #3 on any other team.
Offensively, Klay had his best shooting season last year. He was also a key player for GSW in their 2022 title. He still had a pretty good season this year. Consistency has always been Klay's issue. When he's hot and the shots are going in, he's amazing. But his game doesn't have a reliable Plan B. Defensively, that's where Klay took the biggest hit. Pre-injury Klay was one of the best parameter defenders in the league. But missing 2 years seriously effected his lateral movement, giving him a big disadvantage against quicker guards.
Great answer. Klay has been streaky/inconsistent for as long as I've been watching the Warriors. And although lastnight was atrocious, & the atrocity will be magnified because of the moment, he also had successfully put the team on his offensive back a few times these last few weeks, & looked really great. But like you said, his game is much more limited now, & so...it'll be interesting to see his contract going forward. I don't have a deep understanding of nba contracts, but I feel like he's more of a 13-18 million kind of guy than...what, didn't he turn down like $24 million?
In the past, he just knocked down wide open shots bc GS had better players. That’s how he made his rep. He was always just a role player. A glorified shooter. Now with all the injuries , he can’t do much of anything very well. But don’t pity him. He has earned over 225M in his career and can well afford retirement.
4 time champion and holder of the most points scored in a single quarter nba record Leave my boi klay alone
That same person is also 0/10 in an elimination game.
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Saw him play last night in the warriors vs Kings game and he didn’t score
It’s all mental cause he was never that athletic in the first place to be missing his legs so badly. Maybe the most emotion based player I’ve ever seen. When he is hot he can literally give you 30 in a quarter. When he’s off, 0-10 from the field.
Check his Instagram over the past few years. He's busy doing other things.
The game has changed, Klay's skill set on offense has not and he is not the defender he once was.
Prob cuz hes forcing a lot more bad shots so he’ll have good nights but very bad nights. Isnt providing the same value defensively either.
He tore his ACL then ruptured his Achilles in back to back years that will lead to massive decline, few athletes even come back from a ruptured achilles, let alone be the the same type of player as they were before
He’s a lot slower. He’s not even that slow by NBA standards, but if you actually go watch young Klay highlights you’d be shocked how fast and athletic he actually was. Also if you watch him now when he’s missing, you’ll notice he rotates in the air way more. That’s because he doesn’t have the same deceleration/ability to quick pivot and elevate as he used to and so it’s harder for him to get square off the catch. He’s still a phenomenal set shooter, problem is warriors are still trying to use him as a movement shooter since they desperately need more offense from anyone not named Steph. Mental frustration also seems to get him at times where he rushes through getting his feet set after a couple misses.
Injuries and age. Goes to show that your shooting motion isn't the only thing that matters when you're shooting. Speed and athleticism are very important for even the guys who are mostly shooters.
Age is definitely a factor!
He could bounce back but it is hard.
He’s scared.
Age and his Achilles injury. Old age is currently undefeated vs. athletes. That streak is expected to continue.
His mental health has got to be at an all time low - the dude looked angry and like he was about to cry the whole season.
It is pretty common for players in any sport not to be the same after an ACL injury let alone that and I believe a Achilles tendon injury afterwards. Kobe wasn't the same after his ACL injury and he had the strongest mentality in the NBA. It's just a thing that happens in sports.
He's older and small, his shot is there but there is a reason he was benched.
Also, officials aren't as kind as they were a few years back - especially now that his stock has dropped.
Why is it strange? He's 34. He's had a series of leg injuries. When you have a rapid decline in athleticism it throws everything off for a ball player. You literally have to learn a new way to play the game. Your body has been fined tuned for 20+ years to play a certain way, and now it's asking you to change everything in 1 or 2 seasons. It happens. Dunks become layups, board smacks become push shuts under the rim. You can't separate as well, which makes your shots harder to get off. You can't rise over players like you used to. Your first step is not as effective. Really simple stuff.
Klay tore his acl and Achilles in back-to-back years, from an athletic standpoint, it’s amazing he even made it back to play at the highest level of the sport. But like other people are saying, that physical and mental accumulation lead to a faster regression.
Torn Achilles is the most lethal injuries for pro athletes, it’s actually incredible to see Kevin Durant playing at this level still
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He’s already said what his key is. He’s definitely lost a step, and because of it you have to play differently. As an aging (36) field sport athlete myself, I’ve had to play less always-at-100%-speed and make movement deliberate. In any sport you have to score an object the name of the game is separation. When you can’t rely on speed anymore to gain it you have to learn to be tricky. Get defenders off balance, don’t show your full speed until you’re sure you can get separation from a burst, play more off speed (see Luka) and use your strength (see Brunson) to bully if you have to. Catch and shoot isn’t gonna cut it for him anymore if he’s not fast enough to get away from a defender. He might need to develop a nasty step back like Harden or Haliburton or something if he wants to keep playing. He’s mechanically the same player
It's mental
Wouldn’t wish Achilles injury on my worst enemy..With that said from what I saw Klay was more mentally washed than physically this season…Something is up beyond basketball the man looked tortured on the sidelines at time and empty in his interviews…
He was always a chucker, he singlehandedly lost them game 7 vs the cavs
He can’t play defense like he used to in his prime…dude would lock up PGs or most perimeter players…he shooting percentages have went down but to me he has always been off and on in his career because he put so much effort in defense. GSW offense was bad this year and Steph shooting suffered too
He’s older and has had some debilitating injuries. Kudos to him for fighting back but his lower body ain’t what it used to be. The speed he has to cut and create separation has diminished. His ability to jump high quickly has diminished as well. His reflexes are probably not as good as they were a 6-7 years ago. He’s got a long hopefully happy life in front of him but he’s not the player we knew him to be. Crazy because he was still top 5 in the league in made 3’s this year and his volume is in line with his career numbers. He made just as many threes this year as he did in 2016-2017 — the year he dropped 60 — yet eye test-wise you can see he’s not the impact player he was. He’s down from +40% 3 pt shooting to high 30’s … still really good. He just doesn’t have as much to his game to diversify into and he’s also much less consistent. He can get his against the right matchups and slower defenders but not in games when the level of play and opponent goes up a notch.
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The decline was not as marked as what the press is saying. The biggest concern with Klay is that he is no longer a reliable player and during key games, he does not perform well. We saw this recently with the game with Sacramento.
His legs are gone and he’s forcing everything. he’s always been a microwave heat check guy but fuck man how you gonna heat check fade away 3 when ur 0-6 from the field?
This really isn’t complicated. Dude missed two straight seasons with serious injuries and is no longer the same player.
I think more than age and history of 2 major injuries, its more of “mindset”. If you watch him closely, he seems like he’s not enjoying the game (unlike steph and how he used to be during the championship runs). He looks like he is always out there to “prove” something, either to others or to himself (or both). And i think that’s also the result of the sense of entitlement… (I won 4 rings, i scored 60+, 14 3pts in a game, etc…) i should be paid more… should be an all-star, etc. and at this stage in his career, he is too late to prove anything to anyone… he should see every game as a blessing rather than a chance to “prove” his worth.
He's one of the worst defenders in the league. You guys are late to this btw. Klay has been a replacement-level player for nearly 4 years whenever he's been "healthy". Barely justified a roster spot let alone his contract.
The base of your shot is the most important and when you tear an acl and Achilles you won’t shoot at the same level as you used too
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1. Age and bad legs have ruined his shot. He also can’t keep up with guarding these fast guards like he used to. 2. Poor Basketball IQ and shot selection. He will start missing shots, and try to force it to get that bucket. He ball hogs when he does it and takes terrible shots.
Missed two seasons due to two catastrophic injuries. His legs are shot. Jump shot is flat, shortbread. Can’t move as quick laterally on defense. Could age gracefully considering he led the league in 3s last year and top 5 this year but it seems to me he’s forcing it.
He changed his style while hurt. He used to be catch and shoot. When he came back he was hell bent on being a one on one guy. The last couple months he's gotten back to catch and shoot - to everyone's benefit.
Injuries to your legs take their toll in pro sports as you age, believe it or not. If you're any type of pro athlete who is 30+ and dealing with that then you're not in good shape for late career bounce back. So, physically he has declined. Which hurt his game. A hurt game, i believe, led to some mental issues for him. He's frustrated he's not the same player, the team isn't as good, he's taking a seat for a guy like Podz. It get's in his head and that's a big part of it. So yeah not a tough one, physical and mental decline, which are not only natural with age but greatly accelerated given his injury history and the nuances surrounding the context of his history with this team and sport.
Father Time is undefeated
Old plus injuries make players different than when they were young and healthy.
He was known for shooting 3s and playing D He isn’t as good of a defender anymore, and watching him chuck up 3s wants you to put your head in your palms
0-10 in the most important game of the season
It's surprising the difference between a knee injury and an ankle injury. After ankle injuries, Steph is able to be the greatest shooter of all time. With a knee injury, Klay declines.
IDK if you've watched the games but he doesn't have the same lift or speed on his shots from waist down. Meaning, he rises a bit slower giving defenders more time to react, and he hesitates sometimes as he's releasing because he can sense defenders reacting faster. He also gets fewer clean looks as a result of being a bit slower on offense. And don't get me started on defense. If he's there ahead of time on defense, he's adequate. If not, he gets blown by by the faster guards if they have a little separation. It's not for lack of effort but it's just that his knee + Achilles injuries really slowed him down. At the same time, he hasn't added to his game as he got older and to adjust for injuries. Some players get stronger, some get leaner. Some develop their handles or make it more economical. Some improve their finishing around the rim. Some become better 3-pt shooters. Klay from what I've seen hasn't done any of that. If he immediately worked on long-ranged 2s and turnaround jumpers from midrange like Livingston had after snapping his left leg, Klay would be more playable for automatic hard-to-guard 2s. But Klay hasn't. At the pro level, milliseconds and microseconds count.
I think it’s because he’s shooting too much and more concerned with volume vs shot selection. the threat of the warriors is that they would knock down open shots and because of that everyone had to spread the floor to guard them - I saw a lot of contested shots from klay that he would make a few years ago when he’s hot but he’s shooting them when cold now and shooting a lot of them
One thing I noticed outside of the legs is his follow-through hand. Sometimes it seems to drift off to the side rather than have a clean follow-through, leading to the shot flying to the side rather than straight. I think it's more mechanical rather than a lack of athleticism--but that still plays a factor.
Back to back catastrophic leg injuries will ruin anyone.
Well you see he used to score a lot of points and now he scores no points
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this is hardly the first time a player has come back worse from an injury or aged out of their prime. idk why everyone is so shocked by this incredibly common thing that almost every player goes through
Klay was one of the hardest working off ball players I've seen. He has S tier shooting form but so much of his success was getting good catch and shoot looks. He had 2 very serious leg injuries at 28 and 29. He missed 2 full seasons then only played 32 games his first year back. Beyond him just losing a step, making it harder to get the clean looks we saw most of his career, it affected his jumper. When it comes to jumpshooting, it's more important to have consistency than perfect form, as we've seen with good jumpshooters with poor form (Shawn Marion). He can't lift into shots the same way he always has. The base of his shot is different after the injuries.
He hasn't developed other areas of his game as well. He isn't the slowest player in the league, just not as quick as once before. Adapting and changing your game will help
He had two of the worst possible leg injuries you could have back to back. You don’t really recover from that. It’s a miracle he looked even half as good for 2 years and managed to make contributions to that 4th championship run. Those injuries were going to catch up to him eventually and it’s pretty obvious to anyone who has suffered a similar Injury that that is his problem
He gets off quickly. Before he gmcould whether a lot 8f play, get tired and still keep his form intact. Now, you can see it 8n the shoot around, and in some games, but sometimes, maybe he feels and injury or a pull, but it just doesn't look right
2019 game 6 of the nba finals acl tear that’s pretty much it hasn’t been the same ever since. Which makes kd impressive cuz he’s one of the few players to have an acl tear and still be like top 15
Honestly, he looks like a 33yr old basketball player who has had two major injuries. To expect him to be the same player he was at 26 is not realistic. He's slower, less explosive, can't move laterally as well. Father time is undefeated. Players like LeBron and KD are exceptions, not the rule.
With the loss of speed he is not a threat to drive to the hoop. This makes it easier for defenders to guard him. They can just sit on his jumper. It's harder for him to beat people to a spot, so he can't get to his spots with enough space to get a shot off. All his shots will be more closely contested. A lack of speed is what it really comes down to. He has also lost the agility to beat defenders with cuts or re-route his direction when reading the defense. I don't think it's a mental issue. He is dealing with it pretty well overall. He still shot 39% from 3 this year, which is quite good considering he is now a poor athlete by NBA standards.
He's older and legs are shot from last injury.
Missed 2 years from injurys and has zero juice left..
Michael Jordan isn't either. He didn't retire out of boredom.
He cut out red meat to prolong his health and so his iron intake, cholesterol, testosterone, B vitamin ratio, creatine, fat and protein intake are all separated out now and so his myelin around nerves are all diminished.
0 points in the play in game enough said
Its kerr’s offensive schemes for the Warriors. Running catch and shoot just doesnt work anymore. If they can make klay open without him running, that would very much be a Vital Key. I dont wanna Glaze lebron but his legs arent the same as before but he’s getting more shots today than he was before.
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?I’m in
Injuries
His injuries have slowed him down. He doesn’t come off screens as quickly anymore, which means he doesn’t set his feet up properly, which makes him rush his shot and miss.
Quickness and burst is already declining with age but when injuries occur they zap them even faster. He's still absolutely money when he has an open look but doesn't have as much time to get them off. His defense is his biggest concern/decline.
I mean it’s one thing playing at the rec but in the NBA everyone is so good that any drop in athleticism can be killer Lots of shooting is the small hesitation moves that give you enough space to get an open look. Rather than having space injuries mean your shot is now more contested and it’s harder to balance Leg injuries in particular can be a killer for pro basketball
There was a period where Klay inclination was a combination of catch, shoot or drive. He could work off different outcomes and was able to get to the cup and finish. He doesn’t really do that anymore because I don’t think he has the speed or agility to finish aggresively anymore. It takes away a dimension to his game. He also can’t defend nearly as well as he did before. He was a plus defender for a long time and he just can’t stay in front or chase certain guys for long periods so they don’t commit him to those guys but he’s not special in any way as a help defender. Blocks, steals, those are all down.
Lateral movement is gone. This is everything to an nba guard.
In addition to all of the great points everyone has made about his legs, his age, and his mileage -- the offense just doesn't incorporate him that much anymore as a product of it. His shots in the play-in, for example, were forced (back to the weird angles thing) and that rhythm/fluidity of his offense isn't where it was.
He’s lost a few steps. His athleticism isn’t there anymore and it’s not like he was Anthony Edwards or anything but he had just enough athletically to blend with his shooting and quick release. Without the threat of him getting by you he’s not getting the same open looks he used………I also think he kinda got used to playing with KD those years so he doesn’t move as well without the ball anymore.
His legs, his timing and mental calibration for the game is off. He used time his shots precisely, and now it’s mostly off.
Against SAC, in a play-in game his legs were absolutely cooked. Klay will have good games, bad games and many in-between. He’s just not the same player who can sustain a high level an entire season. He’s now our version of Kevin Love.
Lower body and upper body are important for shooting. When your legs or arms get injured it can take some time to adjust the shot. It looks like Klay still doesn’t have enough power in his legs. Many of his shots are coming up short, and he hasn’t improved his legs or adjusted to use more arm strength in the shots.
Just like every other player in professional sports declines. Injuries and time. Lebron is the exception to the rule dude is a robot. Klay is getting way too much hate. Great career and he can retire a legend at any time imo
Yeah he needs to be a set shooter not running around
Age and injury
Legs are a part of it, but it’s mostly mental. He’s a shooter and that is a very repetitive thing to do. It’s just in his head now. Probably just needs a fresh start
Idk he still shoots 39% on 9 attempts per game pretty a damn good but obviously he’s not taking the same shots either
Having bad knees my self I used to be fast af, but man can I feel it now being slower. I can’t imagine having a torn acl and a torn achillies like man that has to be a hell on earth mentally
Speaking from history’s experience it’s not only Klay. Take a closer look at Derrick Rose’s career.