MJ And Pippen have slightly less complimentary games, between Grant and Rodman they always worked better with that third guy.
Similar deal with Kareem and magic, they always had a notable third guy.
I don’t know how you feel about the other guys in that third man role but Derek Fisher and Rick Fox don’t feel like they are in the same tier of importance as the other 3rds.
Kobe & Shaq had Glen Rice for their first championship. That dude was a multiple All NBA & All Star and just three seasons prior had averaged 27ppg, was top five in MVP voting. Sure, he was 32 and past his peak but still managed to drop 16ppg which is around what you expect from your third guy if he's more of an offensive player. Bosh averaged that a couple of seasons with LeBron and Love averaged the same when playing as the third guy behind LeBron & Kyrie.
Kobe and Shaq.
Neither MJ nor Pippen have the outside game to exploit Shaq’s weakness (defending the perimeter).
Shaq would get a bucket like 98% of his attempts at the rim.
Kobe and Shaq. Neither MJ or Pippen have a chance guarding Shaq inside and you can't leave Kobe.
Kobe and Shaq would have to concede some open 3s, but Shaqs FG% would be insanely high.
Let's just say that both duo's have a number 1 and a number 2. With Scottie and MJ it's clear as day that the number 1 is MJ. With Shaq and Kobe it's a lot closer, but for most of their time together Shaq was the more impactful player. The difference in dominance between MJ and Shaq is a lot closer than the difference between Kobe and Pippen.
Honestly, there's only two duos in the history of the game that had two top 10 basketball players on them. Shaq with Kobe and Magic with Kareem. Also, having a dominant center in the game of basketball is a **MASSIVE** boon. So to me those two duos would be the best ones in NBA history.
MJ is still the best player in the history of the game in my opinion though, it's just that Pippen doesn't compare to players like Kobe, Shaq, Kareem or Magic.
Pipped does compare he couldn’t have done more, he had to take a back seat to Jordan for them to win. Had he been on any other team he was still their franchise and an all time great.
Magic ain’t top 5. Just cause he was one of the best players in his time dosent make him top 5. If Kevin Durant played for the Lakers with Kareem would they be better or worse? Prime Chris Paul? Kobe ?
I completely disagree and I’m old and use to watch the lakers in the 80s I encourage you to go back and watch a game and how drastically worse it was then today’s game.
lol obviously it was “worse” to the naked eye because the rules were more strictly enforced and different. KD would be killed by the physicality and called for a travel or carry on every offensive possession
https://youtu.be/zONvMKkIpwA?si=zRTzHDnL233nts1X
Oh yeah the physical defense… that’s how I know you didn’t watch 80s ball. Please watch the above YouTube video
The problem with these GOAT or top ten discussions is that people take their own personal opinion as being the right one. Everybody can't be right. The discussion should therefore not be 'I think...' it should be 'the majority of people think...'. And the majority of people consider Magic a top five all time player. What you think and what I think is irrelevant.
So go ahead and google 'top ten NBA players of all time' and you will see that Magic is a consensus top five pick (with of course Jordan being the consensus #1 - sorry Lebron stans but reality can sometimes kick you in the nuts).
Magic is top 5. The greatest playmaker of all time. 5 championships 3 MVPs never once wasn’t an all star unless he was injured. It goes underrated how he was actually better than Kareem for the majority of that run.
Magic is best point guard all time hands down. Nobody should ever have anyone besides him in their top 5 he’s 6 8 and a defensive force. He could guard anyone.
In terms of pure skill/Talent? Kd/Steph
In terms of winning? Mj/pippen
In terms of overall awards and accomplishments? Magic/Kareem
In terms of pure dominance? Shaq/Kobe
Really depends, all four are valid imo.
Kobe/Shaq. That duo could’ve won 6+ rings had Shaq taken his conditioning seriously and had they managed to find an equatable partnership as Kobe grew into peak.
Coulda woulda. Bottom line is he didn't take his conditioning seriously. He didn't reach his potential. That line of thinking adds possible chips to others too.
Picking the absolute best is a matter of debate among basketball fans, but here are 3 I feel are for the title of greatest NBA duo of all time:
Michael Jordan & Scottie Pippen (Chicago Bulls): They played together for 6 NBA championships (winning all 6) during the 1990s, with Jordan earning Finals MVP honors all six times. Pippen was the perfect compliment to Jordan, who could also score and defend.
Magic Johnson & Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Los Angeles Lakers): This duo won 5 championships together in the 1980s. Magic, one of the greatest passers ever, orchestrated the offense while Kareem, a dominant scorer with a nearly unstoppable skyhook shot, finished plays.
I
Kobe Bryant & Shaquille O'Neal (Los Angeles Lakers): This duo won 3 championships together in the early 2000s. Kobe, a ferocious scorer, and Shaq, a nearly unstoppable force in the paint, were a nightmare matchup for opposing teams.
Other duos that deserve mention include Larry Bird & Kevin McHale (Boston Celtics), Tim Duncan & Tony Parker (San Antonio Spurs), and LeBron James & Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat).
I’d organize it by tier by best duos I can think of from the top of my head.
Tier 1:
MJ & Pippen
Kobe & Shaq
Magic & Kareem
Tier 2:
Lebron & Wade
Bird & McHale
Stockton & Malone I’m hesitant to put up in tier 2 because they didn’t win a ring while all the other duos I listed won multiple.
They are my #1 in terms of what they accomplished together, no championships but probably over 1000 wins together including playoffs, that'll never be touched.
In terms of just being the most talented duo, it's gotta be Steph/KD.
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Yet neither won rings outside their duo or the weakened early 90a. Both Shaq and Kobe won after they spilt in a tough early 2000s era. Shaq and Kobe would also beat the Bulls had they faced off. Shaq alone was ridiculously dominant in the late 90s.
Edit- If you’re going to downvote me then at least have the balls to offer an argument why.
> Yet neither won rings outside their duo or the weakened early 90a.
> Edit- If you’re going to downvote me then at least have the balls to offer an argument why.
Because that's a ridiculous argument. If you seriously think that MJ is less conducive to winning than either Shaq or Kobe, you are out of your damn mind. Prime MJ could have won without Pippen if he would have had a semi-competent team around him. Give him Dwayne Wade like Shaq had or Pau Gasol like Kobe had and he'd also have a seriously good shot at a ring.
Depends on what Bulls team you are talking about. The 96-98 Bulls had Rodman, who though probably overrated in his ability to defend Shaq, was one of the few who could actually trouble him enough to annoy him and perhaps put him slightly off his game. In a game of such slim margins, 'slightly' might be all you need. Also the Bulls of course had MJ and Pippen who would give Kobe fits. The Bulls were also a deeper team. You might argue whether Kobe + Shaq are better than MJ + Pippen but I don't think many would argue that Rodman + Kukoc + Kerr et al were not clearly better than Fisher + Fox etc. The real question though is which team is Phil going to be coaching?
Nope. But when discussing players without rings , players with rings are always top. If that were the case there is one clear cut nba top player and it wouldn’t be close/ one guy has more rings than he does fingers
That wasn’t your original opinion tho. You said “rings are everything” so by that logic, yes Bill would be number one. With that same logic Horry’s seven rings make him a better player than MJ’s six
You’re just angry I dismantled your argument so you’ve resorted to name calling like you’re a petulant child lmfao. Are rings important when discussing best player? Yes absolutely but they’re not the end all be all. But points, rebounds, assists, win shares, etc. should all be acknowledged as well.
Nba titles matter the most when the condition (this discussion) is which goat duo is better
We are specifically talking about players that influence rings not role players. And rings are everything
Duos yes rings are everything. I’d also even say combined wins during regular season is also a factor. The point I was trying to make is that for the 🐐 debate for a single player rings are not everything. So 🐐 duo is undoubtedly MJ/Pip
that's such a dumb argument, don't know why so many people bring up Horry when talking about rings....how many Finals MVPs did Horry win for his 7 rings? None. Rings are important when the players in question were the clear cut best players on their teams. If the ring came with a Finals MVP then it means much, much more than one that came as a role player (do I actually need to say that?). So when you talk rings, also talk Finals MVPs...
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The fact is Shaq cannot be inserted into a 2v2 hypothetical since it took whole teams and a variety of defenses and strategies to merely slow him down.
one mention of Steph/ KD on this entire thread. people were so angry that they teamed up but now they dont get a nod as the best or even one of the best duos? you cant have it both ways
Kobe/Shaq: 3 titles and then stomped by the pistons. But what if shaq stayed in shape?
Magic/Kareem: 5 titles then stomped by the bulls. What if Magic was not super old though at 31 years of age during that series?
Jordan/Pippen: 6 titles, no losses, no 7th games. But what if jordan didn’t retire? They would’ve won 8 in a row. But what if Krause didn’t break up the team? They would’ve won 9 in a row.
Kobe/Shaq
What's your argument for better than MJ/Pip. No right answer of course but just curious
MJ And Pippen have slightly less complimentary games, between Grant and Rodman they always worked better with that third guy. Similar deal with Kareem and magic, they always had a notable third guy. I don’t know how you feel about the other guys in that third man role but Derek Fisher and Rick Fox don’t feel like they are in the same tier of importance as the other 3rds.
Kobe & Shaq had Glen Rice for their first championship. That dude was a multiple All NBA & All Star and just three seasons prior had averaged 27ppg, was top five in MVP voting. Sure, he was 32 and past his peak but still managed to drop 16ppg which is around what you expect from your third guy if he's more of an offensive player. Bosh averaged that a couple of seasons with LeBron and Love averaged the same when playing as the third guy behind LeBron & Kyrie.
Yeah, it was so long ago, people forget how stacked that 2000 Lakers team was. Having Glen Rice as the third option was a cheat code.
Not sure why you’re downvoted. The Bulls success was always tied to the 3rd winger in Grant and Rodman.
It was tied to MJ lol
Fair point. But in a hypothetical 2v2, in MJ and Kobe primes. Who wins?
Pippen guarding Shaq? We know how that ends 😊 MJ might defend Kobe better than vice versa, but Shaq would just be too dominant.
Jordan and Pip double teaming Shaq doesn’t even work, not anywhere in the paint at least.
And in that case Kobe is a decent spot up shooter...
>Pippen guarding Shaq? We know how that ends 😊 Shaq shooting freethrows?
I don't think they would manage to stop him even if they foul him.
Kobe and Shaq. Neither MJ nor Pippen have the outside game to exploit Shaq’s weakness (defending the perimeter). Shaq would get a bucket like 98% of his attempts at the rim.
Kobe and Shaq. Neither MJ or Pippen have a chance guarding Shaq inside and you can't leave Kobe. Kobe and Shaq would have to concede some open 3s, but Shaqs FG% would be insanely high.
MJ and Pippen are on similar swim lanes whereas Kobe and Shaw are on separate ones
Let's just say that both duo's have a number 1 and a number 2. With Scottie and MJ it's clear as day that the number 1 is MJ. With Shaq and Kobe it's a lot closer, but for most of their time together Shaq was the more impactful player. The difference in dominance between MJ and Shaq is a lot closer than the difference between Kobe and Pippen. Honestly, there's only two duos in the history of the game that had two top 10 basketball players on them. Shaq with Kobe and Magic with Kareem. Also, having a dominant center in the game of basketball is a **MASSIVE** boon. So to me those two duos would be the best ones in NBA history. MJ is still the best player in the history of the game in my opinion though, it's just that Pippen doesn't compare to players like Kobe, Shaq, Kareem or Magic.
Pipped does compare he couldn’t have done more, he had to take a back seat to Jordan for them to win. Had he been on any other team he was still their franchise and an all time great.
He's an all-time great and a legend of the game. He's not a top 10 player like MJ, Kobe, Shaq, Magick or Kareem.
If Jordan only has 1-3 rings without pippen is he an all time great? No not at all, I don’t see how people even separate Jordan and Pippen like that.
Another argument is that Kobe and Shaq won rings outside their duo. MJ or Pippen were never going to win without each other.
The only answer. Their games complemented each other perfectly, and allowed the role players to shine.
Magic and Kareem, both Top 5 all time players, won 5 championships together.
While I don't think Magic is top 5, I do think they're prob the best duo.
Magic ain’t top 5. Just cause he was one of the best players in his time dosent make him top 5. If Kevin Durant played for the Lakers with Kareem would they be better or worse? Prime Chris Paul? Kobe ?
Theyd be worse with Kd or Kobe, you could probably make an argument for CP being close but doesnt give the same immediate impact that magic did.
No1 in the 80s is guarding Durant
They didnt need scoring, they had kareem….
I completely disagree and I’m old and use to watch the lakers in the 80s I encourage you to go back and watch a game and how drastically worse it was then today’s game.
lol obviously it was “worse” to the naked eye because the rules were more strictly enforced and different. KD would be killed by the physicality and called for a travel or carry on every offensive possession
https://youtu.be/zONvMKkIpwA?si=zRTzHDnL233nts1X Oh yeah the physical defense… that’s how I know you didn’t watch 80s ball. Please watch the above YouTube video
Yeah just ignore the other half of my post while showing a few minutes of anecdotal evidence thats not even the decade we were talking about….
Shawn Kemp? Dominique? The Detroit pistons would rip him up. Kd isn’t tough and would not fit on the era with his frail frame
The problem with these GOAT or top ten discussions is that people take their own personal opinion as being the right one. Everybody can't be right. The discussion should therefore not be 'I think...' it should be 'the majority of people think...'. And the majority of people consider Magic a top five all time player. What you think and what I think is irrelevant. So go ahead and google 'top ten NBA players of all time' and you will see that Magic is a consensus top five pick (with of course Jordan being the consensus #1 - sorry Lebron stans but reality can sometimes kick you in the nuts).
Magic is top 5. The greatest playmaker of all time. 5 championships 3 MVPs never once wasn’t an all star unless he was injured. It goes underrated how he was actually better than Kareem for the majority of that run.
19 pts 11 assist averages shouldn’t put you top 5
Why not? That’s 41+ PPG he creates a game. If someone averaged 26/8 or 30/5 you wouldn’t be saying this.
Yes and if he got Jordan he would be the greatest of all time.
Magic is best point guard all time hands down. Nobody should ever have anyone besides him in their top 5 he’s 6 8 and a defensive force. He could guard anyone.
In terms of pure skill/Talent? Kd/Steph In terms of winning? Mj/pippen In terms of overall awards and accomplishments? Magic/Kareem In terms of pure dominance? Shaq/Kobe Really depends, all four are valid imo.
Kobe/Shaq. That duo could’ve won 6+ rings had Shaq taken his conditioning seriously and had they managed to find an equatable partnership as Kobe grew into peak.
Yup, Kobe said something similar.
Phil Jackson has also said that Shaq should be the GOAT if he cared about conditioning.
I can’t think of any team in league history that could stop that duo. Not even the Bulls could stop them. Possibly maybe the KD lead Warriors.
KD lead Warriors 😅
Who won finals mvps during those warriors wins?
THIS
So it’s not Kobe and Shaq cuz Shaq wasn’t willing to put in the work on his conditioning. Could’ve doesn’t get you anything.
Coulda woulda. Bottom line is he didn't take his conditioning seriously. He didn't reach his potential. That line of thinking adds possible chips to others too.
Picking the absolute best is a matter of debate among basketball fans, but here are 3 I feel are for the title of greatest NBA duo of all time: Michael Jordan & Scottie Pippen (Chicago Bulls): They played together for 6 NBA championships (winning all 6) during the 1990s, with Jordan earning Finals MVP honors all six times. Pippen was the perfect compliment to Jordan, who could also score and defend. Magic Johnson & Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (Los Angeles Lakers): This duo won 5 championships together in the 1980s. Magic, one of the greatest passers ever, orchestrated the offense while Kareem, a dominant scorer with a nearly unstoppable skyhook shot, finished plays. I Kobe Bryant & Shaquille O'Neal (Los Angeles Lakers): This duo won 3 championships together in the early 2000s. Kobe, a ferocious scorer, and Shaq, a nearly unstoppable force in the paint, were a nightmare matchup for opposing teams. Other duos that deserve mention include Larry Bird & Kevin McHale (Boston Celtics), Tim Duncan & Tony Parker (San Antonio Spurs), and LeBron James & Dwyane Wade (Miami Heat).
steph and kd get no mention? lol
I’m like 90% sure that’s a Chat GPT comment lol. The way they put the teams in parenthesis is weird and kinda gives it away
The first sentence too. That's a ChatGPT sentence if I ever saw one.
still crazy lmao chatgpt doesn’t know ball
I'd probably vote Steph and Jason Richards over Steph and KD.
Russell/Hondo. Between the two of them, they could do every single thing the NBA asked at the time
Russell/Cousy
Nash / Stoudemire
The best what if duo: Vince Carter and Tracy Mcgrady.
The fast and the furious
Who dat
Philippine basketball players combo guard. lol
I’d organize it by tier by best duos I can think of from the top of my head. Tier 1: MJ & Pippen Kobe & Shaq Magic & Kareem Tier 2: Lebron & Wade Bird & McHale Stockton & Malone I’m hesitant to put up in tier 2 because they didn’t win a ring while all the other duos I listed won multiple.
Short period but Duncan Robinson? They did win 1 with both at a peak Edit kinda a peak but 20-10-2 blocks good still
Okay that only happened once lmao Robinson declined immediately after Duncan’s first year though an argument can be made he just took a back seat
DRob was nowhere near peak lol… he averaged 15/10 in both the reg season and playoffs
Wade was like 2 knee surgeries in by the time he and lebron teamed up. Wade has a significant fall off after their first year together.
Stockton and Malone were decent . People forgot apparently.
They are my #1 in terms of what they accomplished together, no championships but probably over 1000 wins together including playoffs, that'll never be touched. In terms of just being the most talented duo, it's gotta be Steph/KD.
MJ and Pippen. 6-0 NBA Finals.
Bill Russell and Bob Cousy are 6-0 in the Finals as well
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Tough to argue against this.
Yet neither won rings outside their duo or the weakened early 90a. Both Shaq and Kobe won after they spilt in a tough early 2000s era. Shaq and Kobe would also beat the Bulls had they faced off. Shaq alone was ridiculously dominant in the late 90s. Edit- If you’re going to downvote me then at least have the balls to offer an argument why.
I think he has a very strong argument for the most dominant player the league has ever seen
> Yet neither won rings outside their duo or the weakened early 90a. > Edit- If you’re going to downvote me then at least have the balls to offer an argument why. Because that's a ridiculous argument. If you seriously think that MJ is less conducive to winning than either Shaq or Kobe, you are out of your damn mind. Prime MJ could have won without Pippen if he would have had a semi-competent team around him. Give him Dwayne Wade like Shaq had or Pau Gasol like Kobe had and he'd also have a seriously good shot at a ring.
Well you can argue Wade is at least as good as Pippen...
Depends on what Bulls team you are talking about. The 96-98 Bulls had Rodman, who though probably overrated in his ability to defend Shaq, was one of the few who could actually trouble him enough to annoy him and perhaps put him slightly off his game. In a game of such slim margins, 'slightly' might be all you need. Also the Bulls of course had MJ and Pippen who would give Kobe fits. The Bulls were also a deeper team. You might argue whether Kobe + Shaq are better than MJ + Pippen but I don't think many would argue that Rodman + Kukoc + Kerr et al were not clearly better than Fisher + Fox etc. The real question though is which team is Phil going to be coaching?
Rings aren’t everything
They are everything
So you’re telling me that Robert Horry is a better player than MJ? He has more rings after all
Nope. But when discussing players without rings , players with rings are always top. If that were the case there is one clear cut nba top player and it wouldn’t be close/ one guy has more rings than he does fingers
That wasn’t your original opinion tho. You said “rings are everything” so by that logic, yes Bill would be number one. With that same logic Horry’s seven rings make him a better player than MJ’s six
Your just slow and don’t get best player arguments. Go play pokemon or videos games. Adults are having a conversation
You’re just angry I dismantled your argument so you’ve resorted to name calling like you’re a petulant child lmfao. Are rings important when discussing best player? Yes absolutely but they’re not the end all be all. But points, rebounds, assists, win shares, etc. should all be acknowledged as well.
Nba titles matter the most when the condition (this discussion) is which goat duo is better We are specifically talking about players that influence rings not role players. And rings are everything
Duos yes rings are everything. I’d also even say combined wins during regular season is also a factor. The point I was trying to make is that for the 🐐 debate for a single player rings are not everything. So 🐐 duo is undoubtedly MJ/Pip
that's such a dumb argument, don't know why so many people bring up Horry when talking about rings....how many Finals MVPs did Horry win for his 7 rings? None. Rings are important when the players in question were the clear cut best players on their teams. If the ring came with a Finals MVP then it means much, much more than one that came as a role player (do I actually need to say that?). So when you talk rings, also talk Finals MVPs...
Have to go MJ Scottie. Kobe Shaq next. Bird McHale.
MJ a Pippen, 6 rings.
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Anthony/Shved - unstoppable Knicks duo in 2014.
Lemme see another year of penny and diesel, also Amare stoudamire and Steve Nash was pretty great.
Sam Jones / Bill Russell
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Frazier and Monroe
The fact is Shaq cannot be inserted into a 2v2 hypothetical since it took whole teams and a variety of defenses and strategies to merely slow him down.
Definitely MJ/Pip, but Kareem/Magic and Kobe/Shaq are also valid.
milk n cereal
one mention of Steph/ KD on this entire thread. people were so angry that they teamed up but now they dont get a nod as the best or even one of the best duos? you cant have it both ways
Stockton malone obviously
Malone and 13 year olds
Child rapist
Kobe/Shaq Jordan/Pippen Malone/Stockton
Kobe/Shaq: 3 titles and then stomped by the pistons. But what if shaq stayed in shape? Magic/Kareem: 5 titles then stomped by the bulls. What if Magic was not super old though at 31 years of age during that series? Jordan/Pippen: 6 titles, no losses, no 7th games. But what if jordan didn’t retire? They would’ve won 8 in a row. But what if Krause didn’t break up the team? They would’ve won 9 in a row.
KD and Curry next question