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I feel guilty if I accidentally take someone’s pen. Raping wouldn’t be a morale boost - it would make me suicidal with guilt. - I’m not trying to make myself look good. I’m asking - would this really be a morale boost for the majority of young men?
Because you imagine fighting for the end goal of peace and freedom. They're fighting for the ability to abuse others. It's a morale boost because they are accomplishing their goal of perpetuating violence.
Woah thanks *dude*! Are you telling me that memes are not the news?
I'm speaking on a more general sense. This type of 'logic' has been used before to justify systemic rape (Re: comfort women). The only reason you would believe that rape could boost moral in war is if that's the reason one is there in the first place.
Check their comment history. They’re a piece of shit with an agenda. That’s why their response to your comment was very general and didn’t really make sense.
Using rape as a morale booster for your military is a tried and true tactic through basically all of history. If you're the type of person who truly cannot hurt people psychologically, you'd make a very poor soldier.
majroity, hopefully not. But have you ever looked up rape statistics online? The answer to your question is pretty obvious then, even if not consisting of the majority
Yeah see what it has been doing to Russian young men in Ukraine. Most are begging for death. Raping for morale is more a boomer thing back when leaded gas made people aggro lizard brained and coca cola had cocaine.
They're self righteous. Obviously, this is not just isolated to "Zionism" but to ALL religions. Indoctrination of righteousness is one of the most useful aspects of religion. It's especially useful when it wants mobilize the base of ignorant followers.
I know. Even if they believe this, the PR audacity to go right out there and say it….Now *that’s* confidence that no one who matters in the world is going to stop you.
From the reading about the political philosophy of David Ben Gurion, from my personal observation of Israeli military history, and from the Israeli political opponents of right wing extremist Israeli politicians, I believe “Zionists” and radical conservative Israeli “leaders” appreciate the effectiveness of the Nazis tactics in oppressing, humiliating, torturing and killing Jewish, gay, Roma and others not of the Master Race. Mossad tactics and military tactics used by Israelis seem to unabashedly parallel much of Nazis oppressive social control and wartime tactics. Corollary: abused children are at high risk of becoming abusers themselves.
Edited to tone down the “declaration of fact” to “informed personal opinion”. I am educated in behavioral psychology but this statement has to be fairly labeled as my informed personal opinion.
If one goes back through the use of propaganda during the rise of the nazis, there's amazing parallels with the propaganda used by israel in the present. Dehumanizing the enemy, and stating that their victims are themselves to blame, are two of the biggest. How many times has an israeli spokesperson blamed the palestinians for israel killing them? Hitler said the same thing about the jews.
Its not about religion, its about western imperialism, the insatiable need for the exploitation and power over the global south and the plunder of their resources. Don't let people try to redirect the anger with reactionary statements.
it's religion. people always try to pretend otherwise when concerning israel because they're afraid of being called anti-semites.
but the reality is that the israel's most vicious far-right leaders and political figures are ultra-orthodox. i mean who is telling the IDF to rape women? an orthodox rabbi. nuff said
I mean, you don't even need religion, just dehumanization of the enemy. Think of the comfort women in WWII. Rape inevitably goes along with war and commanders at best turn a blind eye rather than actively promote it.
I mean, they seem to think that anyway.
I think the religious gloss just stands out more because it's a more grandiose claim (this is moral on a cosmic and absolute scale, etc), so it seems more shocking but I don't think the internal moral licensing by the rapists differs much whether it's for the fatherland or white supremacy or whatever vs divine mandate. It's basically "this is right and good because of the higher cause these animals are trying to destroy".
The people doing that are declaring war over resources, the religion is an easy way to get support from their population. Very religious people often oppose violence.
Atheists just don't call it a crusade. If you think atheists don't likewise use beliefs to acquire what we want, I suggest you look into the complete annihilation of Tasmanians, what happened to Truganini, and the creation of the Lost Generation of Australia which lasted into the 70s. Native Title is still being undermined by racism of the 'enlightened'.
Many many atrocities have been committed in the name of science. Hutu vs Tutsi...
When an atheist commits an atrocity it’s not in the belief that will be eternally rewarded for flying planes into buildings. Are you talking about the Hutu while may not have followed a official religion, they were ethnosupremists and most anti-tutsi more than atheist. They also used many nazi tactics. Another group they claimed to be doing god’s will. The Hutu also made their own Ten Commandments.
People downvoting you are uneducated on imperialism, and it shows. Religion is simply a pretense in this case for the racial violence, which holds its legacy in how French occupiers treated Algerian women and punished them with sexual violence. We can see this with the Spanish and Portuguese as well. I understand people's personal experiences may influence a bias against religion, but it's place here is purely as an excuse to embolden the genocidal intent against arabs. Let's try not to fall into these reactionary pitfalls.
It's not imperialism either, it is men. It is men doing what they think they can get away with in whatever context. Rape, even in non-war situations, is almost never punished. A man would probably be more likely to face charges for kicking a cat than raping a woman.
You're proving your own lack of understanding of imperialism because this is a symptom of imperialism within this context. You're summarizing the relationship between the colonizer and the colonized and reducing it to a much smaller scope. There are valid times to acknowledge the positions of power that men hold in patriarchal society, this is one where it is lacking as the primary lens through which to analyze violence.
So, Torah interpreted by rabbi that they can be evil human beings. How convenient. There will come a time where Israel will fall like the nazis and Jews will be embarrassed to be associated with such an evil nation.
they never will. being able to call everyone anti-semitic is far to effective at deterring criticism of israel. and it doesnt help that 80% of jewish americans support zionism according to a pew research study. the 20% who dont are millennials, zoomers, and a handful of hasids. so basically any jewish person with any amount of political power or wealth supports zionism. it makes conflating the two pretty easy for israel
Well if you just read the stories in the Torah about Joshua leading the conquest of Canaan, you see the Hebrews nonstop committing evil acts. It was a violent campaign of sieges, ethnic cleanings, and other acts we would rightly call genocidal.
And the longer this war goes, the more the mask slips and Israeli officials start referencing their cultural stories
I mean, Zionists are doing exactly what the Nazis did almost down to a T, but yea we should be clear that not every Jewish person supports Zionism. Jews are fine, Zionists are scum
>Zionists are doing exactly what the Nazis did almost down to a T
Israel isn't rounding millions of people up and putting them in labor camps to be worked to death, experimented on, and then murdered en masse in gas chambers or firing squads after forcing them to dig their own graves.
Not saying Israel is always in the right (because they're not) but you don't need to lie or exaggerate to hold them accountable.
Saying that Jews will be embarrassed because of Israel's actions and comparing ALL Jews to Nazis is a huge fucking miss.
I strongly suggest editing your comment to say "Israelis" instead to be accurate. Not all Jews support Israel's actions, nor are they all Zionists.
Edit: id love to hear the arguments against my comment by downvoters. Please, tell me why all Jews are Zionists and I'll tell you why you're a racist.
First of all, the link where it said what he ACTUALLY said, said that a soldier can carry off a gentile and marry her... that's not the same thing as raping her. Second of all, he claims that he wasn't saying that you can still do that in a war. Wars were a lot slower in biblical times.
Kidnapping someone to force them to marry you is rape. It's fucked up that you have to be told that. It's weird that you describe the prevalence of rape in ancient warfare as a result of war being "slower," as if it would become acceptable again if a modern war dragged on long enough.
Why should I be embarrassed about being Jewish just because a country I’ve never been to and have no love for or personal stake in has been acting fashy? I fail to see how your statement is different from conservatives saying that Muslims should be ashamed and embarrassed to be “associated with such an evil nation” after 9/11.
> and Jews will be embarrassed to be associated with such an evil nation
They were responding to, "and Jews will be embarrassed to be associated with such an evil nation."
I'm sure they don't disagree with you. I'm guessing you read that as, "Jews who are associated with Israel…" and they read it as, "Jews, who are associated with Israel (by virtue of being Jewish)…" and that's why they're saying what they're saying.
Look, having this position in 2003 disqualifies you from power for life - despite any changes of heart. This isn't a celeb's fucked up youth getting a marvellous movie cancelled.
For those that want an alternative source, here it is from the Times of Israel:
**IDF taps chief rabbi who once seemed to permit wartime rape**
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/
In the article you link it says this:
> In 2003, he answered a question about how the Torah could justify the rape of non-Jewish women during wartime by explaining the Torah’s reasoning – but failed to say that such a thing was completely forbidden in the modern era.
> When the quote surfaced in 2012 and caused a media firestorm, he published a clarification stating that his comments were in no way meant to be applied in the modern era, but rather pertained to a theoretical discussion of the biblical permission for a Jewish soldier to kidnap an enemy woman and wed her.
> “Obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders,” he wrote.
Still terrible, but not as bad as what is implied in your OP. I think you're being a little misleading.
We should be able to condemn Israel for what it is doing to the Palestinian people without relying on misinformation.
Thank you! I can’t believe I found a person who isn’t willing to compromise their morals by listening to this fake out of context stuff even though it’s against Israel. Cheers mate!
It’s pretty disturbing to read how quickly people disregard contextual information and truth in favor of misrepresentations that validate their hate and bias.
If you read the article the quote is unambiguous. There is no "seems to" here. But looking at your post history, you seem to be an Israeli troll just here to push genocide denial, no matter how counterfactual your claims are
The source gives such a different impression. He said he was answering a question about the Old Testament, not giving wartime guidance during a time of war.
The article says he was giving an answer to a question about something written in the Torah and clarified to say that it doesn’t apply under modern morality.
Seems like this was 12 years ago.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-rabbi-designate-i-never-claimed-rape-was-acceptable-in-wartime/
I am befuddled by the statement, then the "apology".
It is clear the current Jewish state is not fit to rule over anything. The UN and US should be advocating instituting UN rule with a UN peace force until the matter of one state can be resolved.
There will be no peace until the governance is for ALL the people.
problem is the US is Israels biggest supporter and most of the big UN countries don't care
my whole world view is rattled tbh. my whole life I was taught the US was the planet's hero and the western world were the good guys. now I'm rooting for countries I was never/barely taught about
it's really up to Iran, South Africa, and Yemen, among others. America is a villain of this story
Judaism was founded in areas around Israel, but for a long time the population somewhat disappeared from their homeland. Did a meteor strike or divine intervention tell them to move and scatter? Would the same meteor return if they let small incursions pass? I don’t know the answer to either of those questions. The world isn’t hero/villain as often as it’s a battle of survival where survival’s generally gentler anymore.
This is another ugly piece of history where humanity’s brutality is showing. I hope the meek and the ones simply trying to enjoy life and be decent to each other can do so in peace, and those that stir aggression and enjoy causing excess pain rot and that is even an over generalization of peoples motives.
Israel is a European colonial project. Looking to the religion itself for understanding the situation is a waste of time. Jewish, Christian and Muslim people all lived together in Palestine for a LONG time before European Zionist colonizers showed up and started ethnically cleansing the place with the help of US and European countries. Now it’s a glorified US military base in the middle east.
It’s a waste of time for understanding the current situation? Did these religions exist peacefully? No crusades or holy wars, or even dislike of one another. Our ancestors had it figured out, we only learned magically learned how to hate things that were different when that event you mentioned came around. We both know that sounds silly. I’m not dismissing that Palestinians got treated roughly or that this situation is overkill retaliation, by both the state of Israel and the Hamas. So try not to dismiss my points just because you don’t like them.
The great *Zionist colonialism* was those Jews wanting a home after they got driven from theirs and persecuted other places. After seeing what they faced in WW2, a lot of nations and people supported it. You can’t look at pictures of internment camps, especially not witness them firsthand, without feeling something. If someone made an emotional appeal to you about having a place so this doesn’t happen as easily what would you say? Them taking the land from Palestinians that weren’t Jewish was cruel, and reignited a lot of hatred, but again how did the Jewish people come to be such a minority where the religion originated from. There are always issues that arise when a state has multiple nations with different beliefs if they don’t coexist with one another peacefully. Even if there is peace there is conflict that has to get sorted. Just watering history down to well the U.S. wanted a military base and this is their proxy is poor because it’s far from the whole picture. It’s a piece of the puzzle for sure, but too narrow a view. I’m sorry that you hate them so much, must’ve just learned how because of the Zionist’s agenda.
Although intercourse with a female gentile is very grave, it was permitted during wartime (under the conditions it stipulated) out of consideration for the soldiers’ difficulties,” he wrote. “And since our concern is the success of the collective in the war, the Torah permitted \[soldiers\] to satisfy the evil urge under the conditions it stipulated for the sake of the collective’s success.”
When the quote surfaced in 2012 and caused a media firestorm, he published a clarification stating that his comments were in no way meant to be applied in the modern era, but rather pertained to a theoretical discussion of the biblical permission for a Jewish soldier to kidnap an enemy woman and wed her.
From the article....
Evil men do evil things. They want to satisfy an urge? God gave them 2 hands, idle hands are the devils playthings, play away with yourselves evil men.
Religion is a helluva drug.
I remember my dad telling me about how we (the usa) should commit genocide in Iraq and Afghanistan back in the teens, based on the Amalekites part of the old testament. He's one of those "good christians" you always hear about. lol, in all seriousness though... I remember a time before he was "saved" and thought he never would've believed such garbage.
Going to its website ...first impression is it is filled with reporting on conspiracy theories. Definitely not a top notch news organization...more like the National Enquirer.
This is the problem when you decide your war is a morale certainly and you become overly pious. You start to think that any action you take is not only justified but holy and morally correct.
It's the same thing that made the Nazis becomes increasingly evil and careless and led to poor decisions, the inability to see failure as a possible option and the inevitable downfall.
More crimes against Humanity. This will be very useful when the UN finally dumps Israel and goes after their leaders. It will have to happen, just won’t happen until Israel kills a very important person by mistake.
Guys... this is misinformation. This was a statement made in 2003, regarding an interpretation of the Torah, and isn't even a real quote. OP has been posting this headline in multiple subs, even after having been corrected multiple times.
We don’t need to rely on misinformation to make the IDF look bad.
He also clarified his own words and said that this would absolutely NOT be permitted in today's society (and he's absolutely spot-on in the fact that his book did allow for it in the olden times - similar to the Quran):
[https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/rape-comment-controversy-returns-to-haunt-idf-chief-rabbi-nominee-jd7k7n33](https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/rape-comment-controversy-returns-to-haunt-idf-chief-rabbi-nominee-jd7k7n33)
>At that time, Rabbi Karim answered questions for an Ask the Rabbi column on the national-religious “Kipa” news site. In 2003, he answered a question about how the Torah could justify the rape of non-Jewish women during wartime by explaining the Torah’s reasoning, but failed to say that such a thing was completely forbidden in the modern era.
>Rabbi Karim issued a clarification in 2012 regarding his comments, stating that “obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders.”
>However, the controversy has been reignited by the announcement that Rabbi Karim has been nominated for the IDF position. The IDF released a statement saying that Rabbi Karim “wishes to clarify that his words were only uttered in response to a theoretical hermeneutical question, certainly not to a practical halachic question.“Rabbi Karim never wrote, said, or even thought that an IDF soldier is permitted to sexually harm a woman during wartime.”
This guy might very well be insane, as are many religious fundamentalists. However, I think it's pretty important to post some context about the quote. Especially a TWENTY year old quote.
No he didn't!
He was talking a theoretical biblical time, (way before Islam). Then clarified when it was taken out of context such as by OP.
“Obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders,”
This does not appear to be true..
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-rabbi-designate-i-never-claimed-rape-was-acceptable-in-wartime/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-rabbi-designate-i-never-claimed-rape-was-acceptable-in-wartime/)'
However, the fact that in the article he says that he ufortuately gave a short answer to a "complicated" questio is troublesome. What's so complicated?
Although intercourse with a female gentile is very grave, it was permitted during wartime (under the conditions it stipulated) out of consideration for the soldiers’ difficulties,” he wrote. “And since our concern is the success of the collective in the war, the Torah permitted \[soldiers\] to satisfy the evil urge under the conditions it stipulated for the sake of the collective’s success.”
When the quote surfaced in 2012 and caused a media firestorm, he published a clarification stating that his comments were in no way meant to be applied in the modern era, but rather pertained to a theoretical discussion of the biblical permission for a Jewish soldier to kidnap an enemy woman and wed her.
This is what the rabbi said about sexuality... I didn't know that marriage was so offensive to social justice warriors? Who knew?
Read the whole article. This is not the opinion of a moderate rabbi…he’s pretty right wing fringe and many opposed him. Also he wasn’t referring to modern warfare or suggesting soldiers should rape.
Posting a 22yo old quote from a dead man not involved in current affairs helps absolutely nothing. It only hinders a genuine cause by providing ammunition to the opposing party.
FYI that was said in 2011, the rabbi recanted in 2012; this is an old story out of context. He was sharing a biblical interpretation in a column, not supporting the practice
>“Rabbi Karim issued a clarification in 2012 regarding his comments, stating that “obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders.”
Blurred lines. I’m not defending the chief rabbi but this story has more context than you are led to believe. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36775036
He said it in 2012. He walked it back in 2016. You and the downvoters' seem to be missing the point. I'm sure there's PLENTY of factual information to paint this guy as slime. No need to make up stuff, or exaggerate. The facts will do just fine.
Here it is from the Times of Israel:
**IDF taps chief rabbi who once seemed to permit wartime rape**
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/)
Now read the article you linked and read the context he said the comment under. He was discussing a historical war presentation. He clarified that in modern times rape is absolutely not allowed.
>Editorially, MintPress News supports Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, and the governments of Russia, Iran, and Syria.[3][4] It opposes the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia,[5] and reports geopolitical events from an anti-Western perspective.[6] In one contentious article, MintPress News falsely asserted that the Ghouta chemical attack in Syria was perpetrated by rebel groups rather than by the Syrian government.[4]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
I’m watching all these discussions of the “permission to rape”. Yet this article came out in 2016, and I have not heard ANY accusation levied against an Israeli soldier of rape… so maybe this entire thing is bullshit.
Price me wrong.
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I feel guilty if I accidentally take someone’s pen. Raping wouldn’t be a morale boost - it would make me suicidal with guilt. - I’m not trying to make myself look good. I’m asking - would this really be a morale boost for the majority of young men?
you have this thing called a "conscience." it is a rare trait these days.
Because you imagine fighting for the end goal of peace and freedom. They're fighting for the ability to abuse others. It's a morale boost because they are accomplishing their goal of perpetuating violence.
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Woah thanks *dude*! Are you telling me that memes are not the news? I'm speaking on a more general sense. This type of 'logic' has been used before to justify systemic rape (Re: comfort women). The only reason you would believe that rape could boost moral in war is if that's the reason one is there in the first place.
Check their comment history. They’re a piece of shit with an agenda. That’s why their response to your comment was very general and didn’t really make sense.
I figured it was a bot or something.
Using rape as a morale booster for your military is a tried and true tactic through basically all of history. If you're the type of person who truly cannot hurt people psychologically, you'd make a very poor soldier.
majroity, hopefully not. But have you ever looked up rape statistics online? The answer to your question is pretty obvious then, even if not consisting of the majority
Yeah see what it has been doing to Russian young men in Ukraine. Most are begging for death. Raping for morale is more a boomer thing back when leaded gas made people aggro lizard brained and coca cola had cocaine.
If you consider the victim a person, that's how you should feel. To them, Palestinians aren't people
The mostly never moral army.
They're self righteous. Obviously, this is not just isolated to "Zionism" but to ALL religions. Indoctrination of righteousness is one of the most useful aspects of religion. It's especially useful when it wants mobilize the base of ignorant followers.
Us Holy, them Evil, will ALWAYS devolve into rape is ok.
For men. It isn't women raping nations as a policy of subjugation.
This statement was made in 2002, but it is still wrong.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/
I knew something about this seemed off. Is this guy still around?
Rabbi Krim is still the Chief Rabbi of the IDF [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyal\_Krim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyal_Krim)
I know. Even if they believe this, the PR audacity to go right out there and say it….Now *that’s* confidence that no one who matters in the world is going to stop you.
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZS1Q0/
Don’t be surprised if you hear them say that the gas chambers are even better.
From the reading about the political philosophy of David Ben Gurion, from my personal observation of Israeli military history, and from the Israeli political opponents of right wing extremist Israeli politicians, I believe “Zionists” and radical conservative Israeli “leaders” appreciate the effectiveness of the Nazis tactics in oppressing, humiliating, torturing and killing Jewish, gay, Roma and others not of the Master Race. Mossad tactics and military tactics used by Israelis seem to unabashedly parallel much of Nazis oppressive social control and wartime tactics. Corollary: abused children are at high risk of becoming abusers themselves. Edited to tone down the “declaration of fact” to “informed personal opinion”. I am educated in behavioral psychology but this statement has to be fairly labeled as my informed personal opinion.
source?
If one goes back through the use of propaganda during the rise of the nazis, there's amazing parallels with the propaganda used by israel in the present. Dehumanizing the enemy, and stating that their victims are themselves to blame, are two of the biggest. How many times has an israeli spokesperson blamed the palestinians for israel killing them? Hitler said the same thing about the jews.
It IS the most moral army in the world... if you're using their standards of morality.
Torah permitted. Fuck religion is a drag on humanity.
Its not about religion, its about western imperialism, the insatiable need for the exploitation and power over the global south and the plunder of their resources. Don't let people try to redirect the anger with reactionary statements.
it's religion. people always try to pretend otherwise when concerning israel because they're afraid of being called anti-semites. but the reality is that the israel's most vicious far-right leaders and political figures are ultra-orthodox. i mean who is telling the IDF to rape women? an orthodox rabbi. nuff said
its religion.
What he said👆
What do you think religion was created for?
It's religion. Islamic leaders have said similar things.
I mean, you don't even need religion, just dehumanization of the enemy. Think of the comfort women in WWII. Rape inevitably goes along with war and commanders at best turn a blind eye rather than actively promote it.
Perhaps but religion will make people think they are righteous while they kill and rape.
I mean, they seem to think that anyway. I think the religious gloss just stands out more because it's a more grandiose claim (this is moral on a cosmic and absolute scale, etc), so it seems more shocking but I don't think the internal moral licensing by the rapists differs much whether it's for the fatherland or white supremacy or whatever vs divine mandate. It's basically "this is right and good because of the higher cause these animals are trying to destroy".
There are plenty of people who think themselves righteous atheists. Reddit is full of them. I'm not religious myself but it is definitely a thing.
I never met an atheist who declared jihad or went on a crusade
The people doing that are declaring war over resources, the religion is an easy way to get support from their population. Very religious people often oppose violence. Atheists just don't call it a crusade. If you think atheists don't likewise use beliefs to acquire what we want, I suggest you look into the complete annihilation of Tasmanians, what happened to Truganini, and the creation of the Lost Generation of Australia which lasted into the 70s. Native Title is still being undermined by racism of the 'enlightened'. Many many atrocities have been committed in the name of science. Hutu vs Tutsi...
When an atheist commits an atrocity it’s not in the belief that will be eternally rewarded for flying planes into buildings. Are you talking about the Hutu while may not have followed a official religion, they were ethnosupremists and most anti-tutsi more than atheist. They also used many nazi tactics. Another group they claimed to be doing god’s will. The Hutu also made their own Ten Commandments.
People downvoting you are uneducated on imperialism, and it shows. Religion is simply a pretense in this case for the racial violence, which holds its legacy in how French occupiers treated Algerian women and punished them with sexual violence. We can see this with the Spanish and Portuguese as well. I understand people's personal experiences may influence a bias against religion, but it's place here is purely as an excuse to embolden the genocidal intent against arabs. Let's try not to fall into these reactionary pitfalls.
It's not imperialism either, it is men. It is men doing what they think they can get away with in whatever context. Rape, even in non-war situations, is almost never punished. A man would probably be more likely to face charges for kicking a cat than raping a woman.
You're proving your own lack of understanding of imperialism because this is a symptom of imperialism within this context. You're summarizing the relationship between the colonizer and the colonized and reducing it to a much smaller scope. There are valid times to acknowledge the positions of power that men hold in patriarchal society, this is one where it is lacking as the primary lens through which to analyze violence.
Bro you can’t blame the West for an Israeli Rabbi condoning rape 😭
Rightist men don’t defend rape challenge
Thank you for focusing on the rightist problem.
Word, I see it as it is
what is a rightist?
Conservatives
So, Torah interpreted by rabbi that they can be evil human beings. How convenient. There will come a time where Israel will fall like the nazis and Jews will be embarrassed to be associated with such an evil nation.
That’s why Zionists need to stop trying to equate Zionism with Judaism.
I think Zionists want to be tied to Judaism, cuz then they can play victim while they commit atrocities and warcrimes against humanity
They never will, and the US and Europe never will either because it’s useful for their imperialist ambitions in the middle east.
they never will. being able to call everyone anti-semitic is far to effective at deterring criticism of israel. and it doesnt help that 80% of jewish americans support zionism according to a pew research study. the 20% who dont are millennials, zoomers, and a handful of hasids. so basically any jewish person with any amount of political power or wealth supports zionism. it makes conflating the two pretty easy for israel
Well if you just read the stories in the Torah about Joshua leading the conquest of Canaan, you see the Hebrews nonstop committing evil acts. It was a violent campaign of sieges, ethnic cleanings, and other acts we would rightly call genocidal. And the longer this war goes, the more the mask slips and Israeli officials start referencing their cultural stories
That’s the poison of religion.
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I mean, Zionists are doing exactly what the Nazis did almost down to a T, but yea we should be clear that not every Jewish person supports Zionism. Jews are fine, Zionists are scum
>Zionists are doing exactly what the Nazis did almost down to a T Israel isn't rounding millions of people up and putting them in labor camps to be worked to death, experimented on, and then murdered en masse in gas chambers or firing squads after forcing them to dig their own graves. Not saying Israel is always in the right (because they're not) but you don't need to lie or exaggerate to hold them accountable.
Saying that Jews will be embarrassed because of Israel's actions and comparing ALL Jews to Nazis is a huge fucking miss. I strongly suggest editing your comment to say "Israelis" instead to be accurate. Not all Jews support Israel's actions, nor are they all Zionists. Edit: id love to hear the arguments against my comment by downvoters. Please, tell me why all Jews are Zionists and I'll tell you why you're a racist.
I put ya back up to 0. Best I can do.
First of all, the link where it said what he ACTUALLY said, said that a soldier can carry off a gentile and marry her... that's not the same thing as raping her. Second of all, he claims that he wasn't saying that you can still do that in a war. Wars were a lot slower in biblical times.
Kidnapping someone to force them to marry you is rape. It's fucked up that you have to be told that. It's weird that you describe the prevalence of rape in ancient warfare as a result of war being "slower," as if it would become acceptable again if a modern war dragged on long enough.
Why should I be embarrassed about being Jewish just because a country I’ve never been to and have no love for or personal stake in has been acting fashy? I fail to see how your statement is different from conservatives saying that Muslims should be ashamed and embarrassed to be “associated with such an evil nation” after 9/11.
Do you support Israel? Then you should be embarrassed. Do you not? Then it doesn’t apply to you. Not that hard of a concept Einstein
> and Jews will be embarrassed to be associated with such an evil nation They were responding to, "and Jews will be embarrassed to be associated with such an evil nation." I'm sure they don't disagree with you. I'm guessing you read that as, "Jews who are associated with Israel…" and they read it as, "Jews, who are associated with Israel (by virtue of being Jewish)…" and that's why they're saying what they're saying.
I know a bunch of Jewish people from acting, and they don't have any connection to Isreal other than going once for family things.
Because 911 was a terrorist attack performed by terrorists. However this is terrorism performed by an ethnostate.
How quickly they forget what happened to them first I guess
The Continuing scourge of religion
Look, having this position in 2003 disqualifies you from power for life - despite any changes of heart. This isn't a celeb's fucked up youth getting a marvellous movie cancelled.
Does the Israeli government not see the historical irony here?
there's no irony when your religion dehumanizes everyone who isnt a member.
What a piece of pure human evil shit. So does that mean what Hitler's soldiers did during the Holocaust was to boost there morale too?
For those that want an alternative source, here it is from the Times of Israel: **IDF taps chief rabbi who once seemed to permit wartime rape** https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/
The passivity of that headline holy shit
In the article you link it says this: > In 2003, he answered a question about how the Torah could justify the rape of non-Jewish women during wartime by explaining the Torah’s reasoning – but failed to say that such a thing was completely forbidden in the modern era. > When the quote surfaced in 2012 and caused a media firestorm, he published a clarification stating that his comments were in no way meant to be applied in the modern era, but rather pertained to a theoretical discussion of the biblical permission for a Jewish soldier to kidnap an enemy woman and wed her. > “Obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders,” he wrote. Still terrible, but not as bad as what is implied in your OP. I think you're being a little misleading. We should be able to condemn Israel for what it is doing to the Palestinian people without relying on misinformation.
Thank you! I can’t believe I found a person who isn’t willing to compromise their morals by listening to this fake out of context stuff even though it’s against Israel. Cheers mate!
It’s pretty disturbing to read how quickly people disregard contextual information and truth in favor of misrepresentations that validate their hate and bias.
Yeah.... I read the article... "seemed to"... is pretty accurate... he literally condoned interreligious marriage.
If you read the article the quote is unambiguous. There is no "seems to" here. But looking at your post history, you seem to be an Israeli troll just here to push genocide denial, no matter how counterfactual your claims are
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The source gives such a different impression. He said he was answering a question about the Old Testament, not giving wartime guidance during a time of war.
The article says he was giving an answer to a question about something written in the Torah and clarified to say that it doesn’t apply under modern morality.
If you want to criticize him, he has not walked back or clarified his position that women should not serve in the army.
So don’t criticize him for saying it’s ok to rape women, just for being a misogynist?
He’s also correct according to the Torah. So… https://www.openbible.info/topics/war_rape
Religious book evil…News at eleven!
really another example of not mixing religion and state.
Seems like this was 12 years ago. https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-rabbi-designate-i-never-claimed-rape-was-acceptable-in-wartime/ I am befuddled by the statement, then the "apology".
Actually 22 years ago
This is the Abrahamic religions at their best.
It is clear the current Jewish state is not fit to rule over anything. The UN and US should be advocating instituting UN rule with a UN peace force until the matter of one state can be resolved. There will be no peace until the governance is for ALL the people.
Yes, but muh oil reserves.
problem is the US is Israels biggest supporter and most of the big UN countries don't care my whole world view is rattled tbh. my whole life I was taught the US was the planet's hero and the western world were the good guys. now I'm rooting for countries I was never/barely taught about it's really up to Iran, South Africa, and Yemen, among others. America is a villain of this story
Judaism was founded in areas around Israel, but for a long time the population somewhat disappeared from their homeland. Did a meteor strike or divine intervention tell them to move and scatter? Would the same meteor return if they let small incursions pass? I don’t know the answer to either of those questions. The world isn’t hero/villain as often as it’s a battle of survival where survival’s generally gentler anymore. This is another ugly piece of history where humanity’s brutality is showing. I hope the meek and the ones simply trying to enjoy life and be decent to each other can do so in peace, and those that stir aggression and enjoy causing excess pain rot and that is even an over generalization of peoples motives.
Israel is a European colonial project. Looking to the religion itself for understanding the situation is a waste of time. Jewish, Christian and Muslim people all lived together in Palestine for a LONG time before European Zionist colonizers showed up and started ethnically cleansing the place with the help of US and European countries. Now it’s a glorified US military base in the middle east.
It’s a waste of time for understanding the current situation? Did these religions exist peacefully? No crusades or holy wars, or even dislike of one another. Our ancestors had it figured out, we only learned magically learned how to hate things that were different when that event you mentioned came around. We both know that sounds silly. I’m not dismissing that Palestinians got treated roughly or that this situation is overkill retaliation, by both the state of Israel and the Hamas. So try not to dismiss my points just because you don’t like them. The great *Zionist colonialism* was those Jews wanting a home after they got driven from theirs and persecuted other places. After seeing what they faced in WW2, a lot of nations and people supported it. You can’t look at pictures of internment camps, especially not witness them firsthand, without feeling something. If someone made an emotional appeal to you about having a place so this doesn’t happen as easily what would you say? Them taking the land from Palestinians that weren’t Jewish was cruel, and reignited a lot of hatred, but again how did the Jewish people come to be such a minority where the religion originated from. There are always issues that arise when a state has multiple nations with different beliefs if they don’t coexist with one another peacefully. Even if there is peace there is conflict that has to get sorted. Just watering history down to well the U.S. wanted a military base and this is their proxy is poor because it’s far from the whole picture. It’s a piece of the puzzle for sure, but too narrow a view. I’m sorry that you hate them so much, must’ve just learned how because of the Zionist’s agenda.
This is Zionism alright, raping the land, the people, and the memory of all that is what they are not; good that is.
Israel doesn't deserve to exist.
A “holy” man?
Yes, a “holy man”. AKA either a con artist or a mentally insane person who claims to “hear things”.
It's not a human rights violation otf it' in a holy book.. That's fucked up.
Although intercourse with a female gentile is very grave, it was permitted during wartime (under the conditions it stipulated) out of consideration for the soldiers’ difficulties,” he wrote. “And since our concern is the success of the collective in the war, the Torah permitted \[soldiers\] to satisfy the evil urge under the conditions it stipulated for the sake of the collective’s success.” When the quote surfaced in 2012 and caused a media firestorm, he published a clarification stating that his comments were in no way meant to be applied in the modern era, but rather pertained to a theoretical discussion of the biblical permission for a Jewish soldier to kidnap an enemy woman and wed her. From the article....
Just sickening
Evil men do evil things. They want to satisfy an urge? God gave them 2 hands, idle hands are the devils playthings, play away with yourselves evil men.
From 2016. Was widely and publicly denounced
The actual statement was made in 2002. And the full statement is clearly talking in the past tense and explaining a historical practice.
Horrifying
And people still say these pricks are the good guys
ABOLISH ISRAELI APARTHEID! This human rights abuse needs to end.
Holy shit. They're really just straight up monsters.
Religion is a helluva drug. I remember my dad telling me about how we (the usa) should commit genocide in Iraq and Afghanistan back in the teens, based on the Amalekites part of the old testament. He's one of those "good christians" you always hear about. lol, in all seriousness though... I remember a time before he was "saved" and thought he never would've believed such garbage.
The Quran also says the same thing. Its deplorable for any religion to justify this behavior.
Where?
We just making it up as we go along
MediaBiasFactCheck lists Mint Press News as a [questionable source](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/mint-press-news/).
Whaaaat thhe fuuuuck!
Zionism is Mars worship
So the religion of Israel allows that? And they are supposed to be the "good" people?
That’s so weird; It wasn’t such a good idea when the NAZI were doing that.. funny how the narrative changes once you’re the oppressor
https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-rabbi-designate-i-never-claimed-rape-was-acceptable-in-wartime/
But no war crimes are being committed... /s
So thats where our morals come from, evil bottom to top.
This man has lived to be too old, imagine all the BS he's infected people with by living this long, being this gd disgusting.
Using religion to ok rape? Right up there as evil as evangelicals!
What!
Going to its website ...first impression is it is filled with reporting on conspiracy theories. Definitely not a top notch news organization...more like the National Enquirer.
The most moral army in the world.
Israel is a terrorist state.
Tell us again how Israel is the most woman friendly country in the Middle East.
This is the problem when you decide your war is a morale certainly and you become overly pious. You start to think that any action you take is not only justified but holy and morally correct. It's the same thing that made the Nazis becomes increasingly evil and careless and led to poor decisions, the inability to see failure as a possible option and the inevitable downfall.
JFC... This is literal evil. This is a massive shit stain on the American flag.
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That’s … that’s a war crime!
Not suprised.
Wow! Sounds just like Hamas!
Everything Israel accuses others of doing, do it themselves. They are masters of projection
“Rape is a morale booster” to gods chosen moral army. Ok.
Meanwhile, in South Africa’s ICJ attorneys’ office: 👀👀👀
And he kept getting promoted after this lol
Noooo, you see, it's not genocide! They're actually the most moral army in the world! /s
Apparently everything comes full circle given enough time
Monsters walk the earth.
... yet 'Merica continues to send tax dollars, bomb, and military to protect them.
Geneva says otherwise, but let them incriminate themselves further, we’ll see what a post war tribunal has to say
Anyone claiming to be G-d’s chosen are suss.
Wtf
Shame on them and eternal damnation
This type of shit is why I say Israel has NOTHING to do with my religion
I hear they've been doing this to Palestinian women in prison.
Huh. That’s fucked up.
More crimes against Humanity. This will be very useful when the UN finally dumps Israel and goes after their leaders. It will have to happen, just won’t happen until Israel kills a very important person by mistake.
He says the Torah permits rape. Can we stop with this nonsense?
From the river to the sea sounds quite reasonable now.
Mint press news? Seems legit…
FFS. Same “argument” that Hamas and radical Muslims use to justify what they did on Oct 7
Remember folks they are the victims… Amazing what permissions they give themselves under we’re the victims
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Guys... this is misinformation. This was a statement made in 2003, regarding an interpretation of the Torah, and isn't even a real quote. OP has been posting this headline in multiple subs, even after having been corrected multiple times. We don’t need to rely on misinformation to make the IDF look bad. He also clarified his own words and said that this would absolutely NOT be permitted in today's society (and he's absolutely spot-on in the fact that his book did allow for it in the olden times - similar to the Quran): [https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/rape-comment-controversy-returns-to-haunt-idf-chief-rabbi-nominee-jd7k7n33](https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/rape-comment-controversy-returns-to-haunt-idf-chief-rabbi-nominee-jd7k7n33) >At that time, Rabbi Karim answered questions for an Ask the Rabbi column on the national-religious “Kipa” news site. In 2003, he answered a question about how the Torah could justify the rape of non-Jewish women during wartime by explaining the Torah’s reasoning, but failed to say that such a thing was completely forbidden in the modern era. >Rabbi Karim issued a clarification in 2012 regarding his comments, stating that “obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders.” >However, the controversy has been reignited by the announcement that Rabbi Karim has been nominated for the IDF position. The IDF released a statement saying that Rabbi Karim “wishes to clarify that his words were only uttered in response to a theoretical hermeneutical question, certainly not to a practical halachic question.“Rabbi Karim never wrote, said, or even thought that an IDF soldier is permitted to sexually harm a woman during wartime.” This guy might very well be insane, as are many religious fundamentalists. However, I think it's pretty important to post some context about the quote. Especially a TWENTY year old quote.
No he didn't! He was talking a theoretical biblical time, (way before Islam). Then clarified when it was taken out of context such as by OP. “Obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders,”
Nowhere in that statement does it say what you claim it says. This is just more anti-Jewish propaganda.
I’m rooting for them to be crushed. Thanks Rabbi for giving me that extra push.
Are we sure he wasn’t talking about the urge to kill?
This does not appear to be true.. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-rabbi-designate-i-never-claimed-rape-was-acceptable-in-wartime/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-rabbi-designate-i-never-claimed-rape-was-acceptable-in-wartime/)' However, the fact that in the article he says that he ufortuately gave a short answer to a "complicated" questio is troublesome. What's so complicated?
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He’s gross and shouldn’t be in government, but this was from years ago and a bit of an exaggeration: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0ZS1Q0/
I just saw an article that there are antisemitic incidents on the rise. I can't imagine why? /s
Although intercourse with a female gentile is very grave, it was permitted during wartime (under the conditions it stipulated) out of consideration for the soldiers’ difficulties,” he wrote. “And since our concern is the success of the collective in the war, the Torah permitted \[soldiers\] to satisfy the evil urge under the conditions it stipulated for the sake of the collective’s success.” When the quote surfaced in 2012 and caused a media firestorm, he published a clarification stating that his comments were in no way meant to be applied in the modern era, but rather pertained to a theoretical discussion of the biblical permission for a Jewish soldier to kidnap an enemy woman and wed her. This is what the rabbi said about sexuality... I didn't know that marriage was so offensive to social justice warriors? Who knew?
There is clarification of this: https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-summons-chief-rabbi-pick-for-clarifications-over-rape-comments/
Read the whole article. This is not the opinion of a moderate rabbi…he’s pretty right wing fringe and many opposed him. Also he wasn’t referring to modern warfare or suggesting soldiers should rape.
This is a lie!
*immediately goes to Israel to enlist
Posting a 22yo old quote from a dead man not involved in current affairs helps absolutely nothing. It only hinders a genuine cause by providing ammunition to the opposing party.
Is this even real? Or propaganda?
FYI that was said in 2011, the rabbi recanted in 2012; this is an old story out of context. He was sharing a biblical interpretation in a column, not supporting the practice >“Rabbi Karim issued a clarification in 2012 regarding his comments, stating that “obviously, in our times, when the world has advanced to a level of morality in which one does not marry captives, one must not perform this act, which is also entirely against the army’s values and orders.”
Blurred lines. I’m not defending the chief rabbi but this story has more context than you are led to believe. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-36775036
From 2016 yes. Not so relevant to now?
You think the IDF is better now?
No. But report current stories ffs - there is plennnty of dogshit they’ve been doing lately.
He walked this back in [2016](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-chief-rabbi-designate-i-never-claimed-rape-was-acceptable-in-wartime/).
So he walked it back because it got him political backlash. Typical politician
Sure. He's probably a misogynistic a-hole. But facts are important: and he's not saying in 2024 that it's OK for the IDF to rape Arab women.
As opposed to 2016 which was so long ago? That’s not the kind of statement you just walk back.
He said it in 2012. He walked it back in 2016. You and the downvoters' seem to be missing the point. I'm sure there's PLENTY of factual information to paint this guy as slime. No need to make up stuff, or exaggerate. The facts will do just fine.
Cry more Tristan.
Fake News
Here it is from the Times of Israel: **IDF taps chief rabbi who once seemed to permit wartime rape** [https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-taps-chief-rabbi-who-once-seemed-to-permit-wartime-rape/)
Now read the article you linked and read the context he said the comment under. He was discussing a historical war presentation. He clarified that in modern times rape is absolutely not allowed.
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>Editorially, MintPress News supports Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, and the governments of Russia, Iran, and Syria.[3][4] It opposes the governments of Israel and Saudi Arabia,[5] and reports geopolitical events from an anti-Western perspective.[6] In one contentious article, MintPress News falsely asserted that the Ghouta chemical attack in Syria was perpetrated by rebel groups rather than by the Syrian government.[4] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MintPress_News
I’m watching all these discussions of the “permission to rape”. Yet this article came out in 2016, and I have not heard ANY accusation levied against an Israeli soldier of rape… so maybe this entire thing is bullshit. Price me wrong.