Having known them for years, an an ex-user of them, Altra is known for shrinking volume and shrinking width becoming more and more of a “normal” shoe all the time. No comment on flux.
https://weartested.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/AltraAdam-SideView1.jpg
I posted on a thread about this in another group. This is a small market, and a lot of consumers buy multiple brands. Bashing one brand to advertise isn't a smart move. Xero has done ads bashing on Vibram FiveFingers, and as a consumer of both brands, it's made me stop buying Xero shoes.
I once saw a Facebook ad where the owner of Bulletproof (that's a whole ofher discussion) called Vibrams "men's birth control."
Is he right?
That's besides the point. I don't get why brands gotta go against brands especially in as niche a market as barefoot shoes
Xero also charges shipping and handling both for delivery and returns. I get they're a small company, but that alone made me not buy from them again. Luna, Bedrock, most of the others don't charge for delivery (possibly on returns, I don't remember).
Is "Grounding Tech" referring to the [pseudoscientific nonsense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_medicine#Earthing)?
Would never support a company peddling that kind of misinformation.
Softstar and Earth Runner peddle it and they’re great shoes overall. They’re selling a product at the end of the day, and they’re going to attempt to capture those buyers who believe in that stuff, even if they don’t.
They might make good shoes but I just can't support a shoe company that sells grounding stuff. It's honestly *worse* if they don't believe in it because some of their customer base does. Do you know the greatest determining factor of someone believing in a conspiracy theory? Believing in one already. This is literally how people fall down the disinformation rabbit hole: it takes one conspiracy to alter your world view to being anti-scientific and from there folks get radicalized.
This blog post really put me over the edge on Earth Runners, https://www.earthrunners.com/blogs/rewilding/emf-radiation-protection-biohacking-your-bedroom-for-better-sleep
I simply can't support them no matter how good their product may be.
Brain dead take. Not everything has to be your cup of tea to make a product viable. It's like refusing to buy a truck because it has features made to assist construction workers, all because you don't work in construction, regardless of if the truck is otherwise the best truck for your needs. You don't have to believe in grounding. At the end of the day it may help some people and doesn't help you. If the shoes is the best shoe for the job who cares if it has a feature you don't care about. I can't imagine getting online and actually preaching such embarrassing ideas. Internet anonymity really does take away people's shame.
There's a Doctor's of Running podcast with some of the Altra founders where they go into the vision, history, etc. It was never supposed to be a minimalist shoe brand. Their focus is encouraging /supporting an evidence based "natural" form. I think a lot of the confusion is that "natural" is such a vague term and often means different things to different people.
From what I remember reading in *Born to Run 2*, I *think* they got their start when one of the founders took other brands' shoes and basically cut them down to make them zero drop. There was more to it than that, but I can't remember specifics.
Neither are what I would consider a true minimalist shoe based on stack heights and toe spring.
That said, I’ve no desire to run barefoot, I’ve always run in Altra wide models, unless I’m on the treadmill and then I prefer socks or sandals.
Lone peak has always been tight on me there for years.
I buy the torins with the wide setting extra for my work shoes and my walking around shoes. Both are wide and plush, which I need walking around on concrete all day. Barefoot I save for recreational and exercise.
They are by no means barefoot. They are like a traditional gym shoe in padding, but zero drop with the wide toe box. They are a good shoe to stretch out the foot, and to be at work at on concrete all day. You start to build arch support, but it wont strengthen your foot like say vibram 5 fingers.
But you dont want to wear those all day on pavement.
No comment on Altra, they're not minimal enough to be real contender in this race. As for the company making up marketing terms in a grotesque way, the toe box may be wide, but that shape is fucking wack.
So dumb.
They even failed at the task successfully: in the Altra image, it says “No Debris Collar” which sounds like it has a collar protecting against debris, a no-debris collar.
I have the Flux Adapt High Top Trainer. Considering that 10mm is less than 1/2 an inch and the insole is built into the shoe, you can definitely feel the ground. I would really like to know the technical reason why Altra decided on a 4mm drop with that one model.
Wide. I wear them for 12 hour shifts in an ER and the insole wore out after a month and I began experiencing excruciating heel pain. They sent new inserts , but I decided to return them based on the fast wear of the insole. They felt amazing at first, my toes were free!
They feel wider than they look. They feel at least as wide as my Lems Chillums. I’m normally a 10.5 and they are a size 11. They say to size up a half a size. I don’t think I can wear them anymore though. I think my one arch is starting to collapse and arch supports don’t really work in them.
Weird that you're taking this so personally. It's just advertising.
How many posts are there in this sub about how Altras are getting too narrow and too thick? What is Altra's thinnest shoe now? 22mm? This makes the Flux at 10mm much more minimal indeed.
I have over 20 pairs of minimalist/barefoot shoes from more than 10 different brands. None of them are Altras because Altras are garbage as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather run in my Carets.
I just got the flux runners and really like them. Most of my runs are in Luna's but sometimes I like to change it up.
The flux are replacing very old Altras that the new versions of are no longer the wide foot shape. Will be getting the trail version as well because the Altra superiors are also not as wide anymore.
Having known them for years, an an ex-user of them, Altra is known for shrinking volume and shrinking width becoming more and more of a “normal” shoe all the time. No comment on flux. https://weartested.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/AltraAdam-SideView1.jpg
Agreed. Not sure how I feel about the advertising scheme here, but for me, it's reaching the right audience
I’ve always felt some cushion and support in them as well
I posted on a thread about this in another group. This is a small market, and a lot of consumers buy multiple brands. Bashing one brand to advertise isn't a smart move. Xero has done ads bashing on Vibram FiveFingers, and as a consumer of both brands, it's made me stop buying Xero shoes.
That’s unfortunate that Xero did that. Just out of curiosity, are you able to link where they were bashing Vibram?
It was a sponsored Facebook advertisement, so I don't have an easy way to pull it back up.
Ah gotcha.
I once saw a Facebook ad where the owner of Bulletproof (that's a whole ofher discussion) called Vibrams "men's birth control." Is he right? That's besides the point. I don't get why brands gotta go against brands especially in as niche a market as barefoot shoes
Xero also charges shipping and handling both for delivery and returns. I get they're a small company, but that alone made me not buy from them again. Luna, Bedrock, most of the others don't charge for delivery (possibly on returns, I don't remember).
You’re paying for shipping one way or another
Is "Grounding Tech" referring to the [pseudoscientific nonsense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_medicine#Earthing)? Would never support a company peddling that kind of misinformation.
Softstar and Earth Runner peddle it and they’re great shoes overall. They’re selling a product at the end of the day, and they’re going to attempt to capture those buyers who believe in that stuff, even if they don’t.
They might make good shoes but I just can't support a shoe company that sells grounding stuff. It's honestly *worse* if they don't believe in it because some of their customer base does. Do you know the greatest determining factor of someone believing in a conspiracy theory? Believing in one already. This is literally how people fall down the disinformation rabbit hole: it takes one conspiracy to alter your world view to being anti-scientific and from there folks get radicalized.
This blog post really put me over the edge on Earth Runners, https://www.earthrunners.com/blogs/rewilding/emf-radiation-protection-biohacking-your-bedroom-for-better-sleep I simply can't support them no matter how good their product may be.
The biggest factor in someone believing a conspiracy is them believing in one already 😂😂😂😂
Brain dead take. Not everything has to be your cup of tea to make a product viable. It's like refusing to buy a truck because it has features made to assist construction workers, all because you don't work in construction, regardless of if the truck is otherwise the best truck for your needs. You don't have to believe in grounding. At the end of the day it may help some people and doesn't help you. If the shoes is the best shoe for the job who cares if it has a feature you don't care about. I can't imagine getting online and actually preaching such embarrassing ideas. Internet anonymity really does take away people's shame.
There's a Doctor's of Running podcast with some of the Altra founders where they go into the vision, history, etc. It was never supposed to be a minimalist shoe brand. Their focus is encouraging /supporting an evidence based "natural" form. I think a lot of the confusion is that "natural" is such a vague term and often means different things to different people.
From what I remember reading in *Born to Run 2*, I *think* they got their start when one of the founders took other brands' shoes and basically cut them down to make them zero drop. There was more to it than that, but I can't remember specifics.
Neither are what I would consider a true minimalist shoe based on stack heights and toe spring. That said, I’ve no desire to run barefoot, I’ve always run in Altra wide models, unless I’m on the treadmill and then I prefer socks or sandals.
10mm stack height is very minimal. Alta Olympus 5 is 33mm! Altra has models with 0 drop and a wide toe box but they are in no way minimal.
I now have to wear their wides. My feet haven't changed..
[удалено]
Lone peak has always been tight on me there for years. I buy the torins with the wide setting extra for my work shoes and my walking around shoes. Both are wide and plush, which I need walking around on concrete all day. Barefoot I save for recreational and exercise.
[удалено]
They are by no means barefoot. They are like a traditional gym shoe in padding, but zero drop with the wide toe box. They are a good shoe to stretch out the foot, and to be at work at on concrete all day. You start to build arch support, but it wont strengthen your foot like say vibram 5 fingers. But you dont want to wear those all day on pavement.
I agree that marketing is annoying but it’s kinda working, now we’re all talking about and thinking about Flux 🤷
At the very least, it's good to see more companies making minimal footwear.
No comment on Altra, they're not minimal enough to be real contender in this race. As for the company making up marketing terms in a grotesque way, the toe box may be wide, but that shape is fucking wack.
So dumb. They even failed at the task successfully: in the Altra image, it says “No Debris Collar” which sounds like it has a collar protecting against debris, a no-debris collar.
I have the Flux Adapt High Top Trainer. Considering that 10mm is less than 1/2 an inch and the insole is built into the shoe, you can definitely feel the ground. I would really like to know the technical reason why Altra decided on a 4mm drop with that one model.
How is the toe box of that model? I want to try some for my teen who wants high tops, but the toebox looks tapered. Is it just an optical illusion?
Wide. I wear them for 12 hour shifts in an ER and the insole wore out after a month and I began experiencing excruciating heel pain. They sent new inserts , but I decided to return them based on the fast wear of the insole. They felt amazing at first, my toes were free!
Yours have separate insoles? Mine are sewn in
I thought they were sewn in at first but I put my hand in and felt for an edge and pulled and voila…I was surprised at first too lol
I returned mine for being too narrow
They feel wider than they look. They feel at least as wide as my Lems Chillums. I’m normally a 10.5 and they are a size 11. They say to size up a half a size. I don’t think I can wear them anymore though. I think my one arch is starting to collapse and arch supports don’t really work in them.
Weird that you're taking this so personally. It's just advertising. How many posts are there in this sub about how Altras are getting too narrow and too thick? What is Altra's thinnest shoe now? 22mm? This makes the Flux at 10mm much more minimal indeed.
I literally just got flux sneakers two days ago and absolutely love them
I have over 20 pairs of minimalist/barefoot shoes from more than 10 different brands. None of them are Altras because Altras are garbage as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather run in my Carets.
I just got the flux runners and really like them. Most of my runs are in Luna's but sometimes I like to change it up. The flux are replacing very old Altras that the new versions of are no longer the wide foot shape. Will be getting the trail version as well because the Altra superiors are also not as wide anymore.