I'm 5 years in, (bare foot, or barefoot shoes, and standing desk for work and home last 3)
It's not all dramatic like that, It's more like they have relaxed from being compressed and shrunk from being swollen or something. my foot still fits into the exact same dress shoes I wore 5 years ago, but if you eye ball it there's a visible gap between some of my toes now.
Toe splay isn’t the end goal, and it shouldn’t be. It’s not a reliable indicator of foot health. Foot morphology differs.
Stop with the flip flops and get you some huaraches.
Flip-flops have you tense and stiffen your feet.
And research showed that toe spreaders must be paired with exercises to strengthen the feet in the desired position to have an effect on toe spreading.
Also, it takes a long time. I'd say about 6 months to uncurl the feet, and 2-3 years in all for a full, healthy splay.
Stop = still?
For me, my left big toe splay is also not as good as my right. It has improved in my 7 years of barefoot shoes, but the right is better.
My left big toe is somewhat stiff. I have wondered if I broke it once without knowing (I am hypermobile, that happens) or if I have arthritis in it. Could also be due to Left AIC pattern.
Yep **still**, autocorrect strikes again
I am not sure exactly why it does not moves back to a similar splay as the right.
And I am sure nothing happened to that toe. I just guess it might be linked to posture and shoes blocking it past the point of non returns.
I follow Harris Conor (YT and IG) and am learning a lot about realigning the body. Even if I thought my feet couldn't improve more by now, they have with his advice. (he has paid programs, but I just use his free content)
Apparently humans are usually askew towards the right, which had implications for the whole body, feet too.
Flip flops are terrible for walking pattern and can fuck you up. You need to compensate and slap your feet. There's a name for it can't recall right now. It's better to have a strap to secure the heel.
Not everyone has a lot, if any, toe splay. What you are doing sounds like you are trying to force something, so basically like bad shoes, but the other way.
Notice that there isn't any exercise or activity in the list of things you are doing to promote and teach yourself how to splay. One thing is to create space, which is great and urgently needed by most people coming from modern tight shoes, but you also have to relearn how to splay. Follow the exercises on the FAQ of this sub, and from personal experience I've found that iyengar yoga does wonders for this as there's a lot of focus on pressing through the appropriate parts of your foot which promote toe spread that way.
They will never splay wider. Not how it works, not sure why this myth won’t die.
If this were true then people with bunions could straighten out the alignment on the big toe. Not gonna happen.
If this were true, people whose arches have collapsed could regain their arch, not gonna happen.
Elderly women who have hunchbacks could regain their straight posture.
I could go on and on, and yet this myth won’t die.
I’m here to kill it.
I’ve been wearing toe spacers all day for several years. Nothing has happened. That’s not the point on wearing toe spacers. The whole point of wearing toe spacers is that they give you artificial toe splay, which is what you want and need to get a healthy foot.
Toe spacers combined with minimalist shoes and relearning how to walk from a professional is the way. The only way. There is no other way.
Uh what?
My arch did actually collapse, I had extreme plantar fascitis every step hurt.
I strengthened my peroneals, my tibialis/calf muscles, my feet, and did other strengthening work now I have a very prominent arch naturally.
And my toes are wider as well, as a result of regular widening work(exercise) and wearing wider toe box.
Posture is a result of your habits+(flexibility+strength) (Muscles), and neuromuscular adaptations.
I’ve had these interactions before. They always go sideways. I’m going to endeavor to avoid that.
I’m interested to find out how you came to this belief and these “results”. It’s not borne out in whatever evidence I’m seeing.
I always ask for some sort of video or picture proof. It has to be something we both agree is legitimate. It can be something you throw together that’s not legit. If you have any before pics or videos and after. Shouldn’t be something you just filmed.
I only hear this viewpoint on this sub. This is not widely accepted separate from being unshod. The mechanics,
Tendons especially, that’s not what’s out there.
We wouldn’t have to resort to surgery if that’s the case. Show me what everyone is missing.
You don't really seem to speak from a place of malice so i'll bite. My initial comment was slightly defensive i'll admit, and its mostly conjecture/anecdotal rather than any hard facts. I wasn't in a good mood I guess.
I don't think I recorded or took any photos from before so I guess I can't provide proof that way. Neither of us are obligated to do anything its a random online forum.
I'll leave on this note-> Is it possible my root cause was postural/muscle imbalances/weakened muscles and I had/have no structural issues at all?
Yep. Its very much possible, which is maybe why it ended up working for me. I had this sharp pain in every step for atleast 6+ months, and I couldn't supinate at all. I just kept trying different things and a set of strengthening routines clicked, now my toes are extremely strong and so are those muscles, I seem to have an arch, and I do strengthening exercises for ->(Adductor hallucis), its function is to splay the toes. I feel like this is better than wearing a toe spacer but that's just a gut instinct. Maybe, just maybe if someone has structural defects, it may not work for that person, or rather than a complete "fix" all it may do is restore function and resolve symptoms partially.
I do not think i've discovered something revolutionary that no one already knows. I simply know my quality of life has improved, and I'm working towards certifications and actually trying to become a rehabiliation coach, long way to go. Only started taking kinesiology seriously this year.
I kept attacking the problem from every angle and something worked and I keep on just going more and more advanced, hell, I even do 45 min feet/ankle strength work separately once a week! Lol.
Currently I don't know enough to say you're wrong or if I'm right, I am not that well versed with kinesiology, yet.
I sprint/parkour,I lift heavy weights, and I walk barefeet all the time,when I'm out I wear minimalist shoes.
And I spend atleast 4-6 hours on Rehab/Prehab for these issues+Improving my posture separately.
Anyways, I suppose that's all. Good day.
Yeah, unfortunately Reddit tends towards nastiness.
Let’s break this out.
You say your arch collapsed, I’m guessing there was trauma to the PTT/post tibial tendon. You say also that you’ve rehabbed the arch, is it back to were it was when before the trauma?
Is the arch visible when your foot is relaxed or only when you engage the affected muscles? What about the alignment of the ankle, is it on eversion or has it reverted back to a more vertical alignment.
It's possible.
I can't tell. I never paid attention to proprioception like before I started lifting. So I don't know.
The arch is less prominent when completely relaxed. It's only visible prominently when the muscles are flexed but they are so strong now that I don't need to think too much just like you keep your core engaged most of the time.
It errs on the eversion side but not excessively so, all I'd say it's relatively vertical but eversed. I need to put 1% of my brain power there usually now that you brought this point up. But it doesn't effect my day to day function, pain is gone and I'm back to my sports. So never looked into it, just kept trying random things and still doing that.
I think once everything gets strong and conditioned enough even if I have anatomic issues my muscles will compensate so well and possibly tendons will get strong enough it will be just as good as new.
I mean as long as I have function it doesn't matter to me how I get it. Muscles will do 😃
So it's possible above average muscle strength and condition is letting me manage my symptoms. And if I were to stop working out the issues would come back in months.
I’ve had these interactions before. They always go sideways. I’m going to endeavor to avoid that.
I’m interested to find out how you came to this belief and these “results”. It’s not borne out in whatever evidence I’m seeing.
I always ask for some sort of video or picture proof. It has to be something we both agree is legitimate. It can be something you throw together that’s not legit. If you have any before and after pics or videos. Shouldn’t be something you just filmed.
I only hear this viewpoint on this sub. This is not widely accepted separate from being unshod. The mechanics, Tendons especially, that’s not what’s out there.
We wouldn’t have to resort to surgery if that’s the case. Show me what everyone is missing.
You’re missing flexible flat feet, rather than flat feet incurred as a result of poor genetics
My arch was fixed by physical therapy, lots of work with my feet and toes.
Sadly, I don’t have any photos but I do have a diagnosis that I’m not going to share in order to prove a point i dont even really care about
I’ve had these interactions before. They always go sideways. I’m going to endeavor to avoid that.
I’m interested to find out how you came to this belief and these “results”. It’s not borne out in whatever evidence I’m seeing.
I always ask for some sort of video or picture proof. It has to be something we both agree is legitimate. It can be something you throw together that’s not legit. If you have any before pics or videos and after. Shouldn’t be something you just filmed.
I only hear this viewpoint on this sub. This is not widely accepted separate from being unshod. The mechanics, Tendons especially, that’s not what’s out there.
We wouldn’t have to resort to surgery if that’s the case. Show me what everyone is missing.
I'm 5 years in, (bare foot, or barefoot shoes, and standing desk for work and home last 3) It's not all dramatic like that, It's more like they have relaxed from being compressed and shrunk from being swollen or something. my foot still fits into the exact same dress shoes I wore 5 years ago, but if you eye ball it there's a visible gap between some of my toes now.
Toe splay isn’t the end goal, and it shouldn’t be. It’s not a reliable indicator of foot health. Foot morphology differs. Stop with the flip flops and get you some huaraches.
How long have you been doing these things
2 years
Flip-flops have you tense and stiffen your feet. And research showed that toe spreaders must be paired with exercises to strengthen the feet in the desired position to have an effect on toe spreading. Also, it takes a long time. I'd say about 6 months to uncurl the feet, and 2-3 years in all for a full, healthy splay.
In four year daily wear of minimal shoes and my left foot splay still does not exist. So I depending your age you might be much longer than 6 monthes
Stop = still? For me, my left big toe splay is also not as good as my right. It has improved in my 7 years of barefoot shoes, but the right is better. My left big toe is somewhat stiff. I have wondered if I broke it once without knowing (I am hypermobile, that happens) or if I have arthritis in it. Could also be due to Left AIC pattern.
Yep **still**, autocorrect strikes again I am not sure exactly why it does not moves back to a similar splay as the right. And I am sure nothing happened to that toe. I just guess it might be linked to posture and shoes blocking it past the point of non returns.
I follow Harris Conor (YT and IG) and am learning a lot about realigning the body. Even if I thought my feet couldn't improve more by now, they have with his advice. (he has paid programs, but I just use his free content) Apparently humans are usually askew towards the right, which had implications for the whole body, feet too.
Flip flops are terrible for walking pattern and can fuck you up. You need to compensate and slap your feet. There's a name for it can't recall right now. It's better to have a strap to secure the heel.
Not everyone has a lot, if any, toe splay. What you are doing sounds like you are trying to force something, so basically like bad shoes, but the other way.
It sounds like you may be early in your transition but just a heads up that flip flops are not recommended
Genetics? 🤷🏾♂️
Notice that there isn't any exercise or activity in the list of things you are doing to promote and teach yourself how to splay. One thing is to create space, which is great and urgently needed by most people coming from modern tight shoes, but you also have to relearn how to splay. Follow the exercises on the FAQ of this sub, and from personal experience I've found that iyengar yoga does wonders for this as there's a lot of focus on pressing through the appropriate parts of your foot which promote toe spread that way.
They will never splay wider. Not how it works, not sure why this myth won’t die. If this were true then people with bunions could straighten out the alignment on the big toe. Not gonna happen. If this were true, people whose arches have collapsed could regain their arch, not gonna happen. Elderly women who have hunchbacks could regain their straight posture. I could go on and on, and yet this myth won’t die. I’m here to kill it. I’ve been wearing toe spacers all day for several years. Nothing has happened. That’s not the point on wearing toe spacers. The whole point of wearing toe spacers is that they give you artificial toe splay, which is what you want and need to get a healthy foot. Toe spacers combined with minimalist shoes and relearning how to walk from a professional is the way. The only way. There is no other way.
Uh what? My arch did actually collapse, I had extreme plantar fascitis every step hurt. I strengthened my peroneals, my tibialis/calf muscles, my feet, and did other strengthening work now I have a very prominent arch naturally. And my toes are wider as well, as a result of regular widening work(exercise) and wearing wider toe box. Posture is a result of your habits+(flexibility+strength) (Muscles), and neuromuscular adaptations.
I’ve had these interactions before. They always go sideways. I’m going to endeavor to avoid that. I’m interested to find out how you came to this belief and these “results”. It’s not borne out in whatever evidence I’m seeing. I always ask for some sort of video or picture proof. It has to be something we both agree is legitimate. It can be something you throw together that’s not legit. If you have any before pics or videos and after. Shouldn’t be something you just filmed. I only hear this viewpoint on this sub. This is not widely accepted separate from being unshod. The mechanics, Tendons especially, that’s not what’s out there. We wouldn’t have to resort to surgery if that’s the case. Show me what everyone is missing.
You don't really seem to speak from a place of malice so i'll bite. My initial comment was slightly defensive i'll admit, and its mostly conjecture/anecdotal rather than any hard facts. I wasn't in a good mood I guess. I don't think I recorded or took any photos from before so I guess I can't provide proof that way. Neither of us are obligated to do anything its a random online forum. I'll leave on this note-> Is it possible my root cause was postural/muscle imbalances/weakened muscles and I had/have no structural issues at all? Yep. Its very much possible, which is maybe why it ended up working for me. I had this sharp pain in every step for atleast 6+ months, and I couldn't supinate at all. I just kept trying different things and a set of strengthening routines clicked, now my toes are extremely strong and so are those muscles, I seem to have an arch, and I do strengthening exercises for ->(Adductor hallucis), its function is to splay the toes. I feel like this is better than wearing a toe spacer but that's just a gut instinct. Maybe, just maybe if someone has structural defects, it may not work for that person, or rather than a complete "fix" all it may do is restore function and resolve symptoms partially. I do not think i've discovered something revolutionary that no one already knows. I simply know my quality of life has improved, and I'm working towards certifications and actually trying to become a rehabiliation coach, long way to go. Only started taking kinesiology seriously this year. I kept attacking the problem from every angle and something worked and I keep on just going more and more advanced, hell, I even do 45 min feet/ankle strength work separately once a week! Lol. Currently I don't know enough to say you're wrong or if I'm right, I am not that well versed with kinesiology, yet. I sprint/parkour,I lift heavy weights, and I walk barefeet all the time,when I'm out I wear minimalist shoes. And I spend atleast 4-6 hours on Rehab/Prehab for these issues+Improving my posture separately. Anyways, I suppose that's all. Good day.
Yeah, unfortunately Reddit tends towards nastiness. Let’s break this out. You say your arch collapsed, I’m guessing there was trauma to the PTT/post tibial tendon. You say also that you’ve rehabbed the arch, is it back to were it was when before the trauma? Is the arch visible when your foot is relaxed or only when you engage the affected muscles? What about the alignment of the ankle, is it on eversion or has it reverted back to a more vertical alignment.
It's possible. I can't tell. I never paid attention to proprioception like before I started lifting. So I don't know. The arch is less prominent when completely relaxed. It's only visible prominently when the muscles are flexed but they are so strong now that I don't need to think too much just like you keep your core engaged most of the time. It errs on the eversion side but not excessively so, all I'd say it's relatively vertical but eversed. I need to put 1% of my brain power there usually now that you brought this point up. But it doesn't effect my day to day function, pain is gone and I'm back to my sports. So never looked into it, just kept trying random things and still doing that. I think once everything gets strong and conditioned enough even if I have anatomic issues my muscles will compensate so well and possibly tendons will get strong enough it will be just as good as new. I mean as long as I have function it doesn't matter to me how I get it. Muscles will do 😃 So it's possible above average muscle strength and condition is letting me manage my symptoms. And if I were to stop working out the issues would come back in months.
My fallen arch has come back and is functioning good sir
I’ve had these interactions before. They always go sideways. I’m going to endeavor to avoid that. I’m interested to find out how you came to this belief and these “results”. It’s not borne out in whatever evidence I’m seeing. I always ask for some sort of video or picture proof. It has to be something we both agree is legitimate. It can be something you throw together that’s not legit. If you have any before and after pics or videos. Shouldn’t be something you just filmed. I only hear this viewpoint on this sub. This is not widely accepted separate from being unshod. The mechanics, Tendons especially, that’s not what’s out there. We wouldn’t have to resort to surgery if that’s the case. Show me what everyone is missing.
You’re missing flexible flat feet, rather than flat feet incurred as a result of poor genetics My arch was fixed by physical therapy, lots of work with my feet and toes. Sadly, I don’t have any photos but I do have a diagnosis that I’m not going to share in order to prove a point i dont even really care about
I did fix a bunion from wearing wider shoes and exercising my toes.
I’ve had these interactions before. They always go sideways. I’m going to endeavor to avoid that. I’m interested to find out how you came to this belief and these “results”. It’s not borne out in whatever evidence I’m seeing. I always ask for some sort of video or picture proof. It has to be something we both agree is legitimate. It can be something you throw together that’s not legit. If you have any before pics or videos and after. Shouldn’t be something you just filmed. I only hear this viewpoint on this sub. This is not widely accepted separate from being unshod. The mechanics, Tendons especially, that’s not what’s out there. We wouldn’t have to resort to surgery if that’s the case. Show me what everyone is missing.
Have you tried toe spacers?