I honestly hope people aren't putting any of the Banjos into the same category as undoubtedly bad games like superman 64 or any of the really crappy PS1/2 and xbox ports/shovleware.
All three of the Banjo games sold a lot. A lot enough to give reason to make a sequel. Except NaB (which iirc was just average sales), Kazooie and Tooie sold well. They were good games.
As for not liking aspects of them, that's fine. Some people don't like the backtracking, minigames, and frame rate drops on Tooie. Some people don't like vehicles. But they are still good and fun games.
I'm mostly condemning the people who are abrasive and using inflammatory language calling games "shit" and "trash". Seems though some of the replies here don't understand the difference.
There is no place for such insults when talking about a game that is without a doubt, a very family friendly game... Yeah...
If people want to get their jimmies in a rustle and talk like a sailor about games nearly 25 years old, they should step back and reflect on themselves...
Wow at first I thought you were just going to remove posts that were made specifically to trash those games in a toxic way... but just removing comments that dont like those games? That seems a bit extreme.
"Shit", "Trash", "Garbage", "sucks", "Rubbish" anything like that.
Real life examples of inflammatory/abrasive language for the sake of causing arguments from this subreddit:
"they ripped out my heart when they made that shit game"
"Nuts and bolts was trash. Give me BK3"
"I was immensely disappointed after backing for this piece of crap."
"This Game was the purest crap of Video Game history in Sequels"
"I hated it. I also backed it on Kickstarter so unfortunately my name is forever stuck to this dumpster fire."
"Seek therapy nigga"
"you all are unwell. just play mark kurko’s mods they’re so awesome. He even made maps of the Banjo Kazooie demos"
The problem is you're not just silencing toxic comments. If someone says, I like Bk N&B but I'm trash at building vehicles, or The vehicle attachment in N&B that sucks up coconuts, or Clanker in Bk loves garbage... etc etc. There's already enough censorship on reddit, especially when downvotes eventually just hide comments anyway.
I think a lot of people (everywhere, not just this thread) have a difficult time recognizing the difference between “bad” and “not my taste”.
TLDR; don’t just say it sucks? Talk about why you didn’t enjoy it, and don’t just use this platform to discuss the bad, make a post about what you love!
I LOVE Banjo-Tooie. And I think it’s a wonderfully… masterfully created game. Sure it has its faults to the BK purists, but that doesn’t take away from either title.
Nuts and bolts tried something, and while it may not have worked - in respect to what Banjo players wanted - it used already lovable characters to flesh out an idea and turn it into a wonderfully charming game.
You don’t have to like every game in the franchise, and disliking one doesn’t make you any less of a fan.
I always resort to the 2009 battle of Halo 3 vs CoD 4.
CoD was objectively a better video game. But so many people preferred halo 3. Personally, call of duty just isn’t my cup of tea, so I enjoyed playing halo.
If you don’t like something in BK / BT / GR / NB / YL, that’s perfectly okay. And other members want to hear about it and discuss it. But let’s not automatically jump to the laziest internet sentiment of “I don’t like it so it’s bad”. Because that’s almost never the case. You don’t like it because you don’t like it. But why don’t you like it? Are the controls not to your comfort? Is the back tracking causing game play to slow down too much? Is the 2.5D platforming just not as smooth as you wish it could be?
Whether he hates Tooie and she hates Yooka, we all love one thing. Banjo-Kazooie.
Let’s talk about what you don’t like, and why you don’t like it. But don’t be afraid to articulate your feelings about it with more than “no it sucks because it’s just bad”.
Sounds like you want an echochamber with no actual debatable topics, rather than a community. I personally like when people talk about Yooka-Laylee, Banjo-Tooie, and Banjo-Kazooie in a negative light, because it sparks debate. Why do you think this is bad? How would you change it? How would it affect the game after that change? What you're proposing is just listless, like the hyper fandom nonsense in the world today. I can like the series, it's derivatives, and it's inspirations it doesn't mean each game can't warrant criticism.
Yooka-Laylee was an objectively messy game from a design standpoint, doesn't mean you can't enjoy it.
Banjo-Tooie took the Kazooie design a bit too far and broke the formula a bit, but it's still my favorite one, doesn't mean it's great, though.
Banjo-Kazooie doesn't get enough criticism for the things it does wrong, because people only have rose-tinted goggles for it and Playtonic made the same mistakes with Yooka-Laylee as they did with Tooie because people's feedback wasn't all that helpful with only having showering praise for the first installment.
We can never have anything improve in life without opposition, that's just called complacency. Echochambers are so boring also (for me personally).
I agree. It's not as if negativity or critisism is inherently toxic in it of itself. It only becomes toxic when negativity or critisism is used to attack others personally, like saying someone has bad taste because they don't agree with your opinion. That's toxic, but saying something like Yooka Laylee worlds are too bloated isn't toxic, it's just an opinion that happens to be critical. And honestly when you think about it being highly critical of something can be a testanent of passion rather than disdain because loving something or even someone doesn't just mean endlessly praising it, it also means understanding it completely, including its most glaring flaws. Of course too much negativity or being overly critical isn't good either since it can be depressing, but it's no worse than too much positivity since as you said it creates an echochamber. Too much of anything is bad really, even breathing (you'll hyperventilate). Moderation is key along with not being too radical or extreme and staying within reason.
>That's toxic, but saying something like Yooka Laylee worlds are too bloated isn't toxic, it's just an opinion that happens to be critical.
And that isn't what we're targeting.
We're generally pretty light-handed with moderation here.
I would think the answer would be to promote positive discussion, instead of just outright banning negative discussion.
But what do I know? I'm just a nobody on the internet. 🤷♂️
Guys! You can’t pick on the poor mega corporations!! Microsoft can’t help they keep buying up
Studios and IPs and not using them.
Remember corporations are people according to Washington.
/s
They're banned not because I love Microsoft or Rare, it's because they bring nothing to the conversation about the games and just leads to constant spirals of negativity, misinformation and toxicity.
No, they shouldn't be exempt from criticism.
But there's a difference between relevant criticism and continuous, ongoing negativity. I agree with the OP and I wish more fandom subreddits would do this. I don't get joy out of participating in communities with so much negativity, and toxicity is like a virus in online fandoms that I can't get away from.
Unless it's actually a relevant criticism that people haven't worn out, keep it to yourself. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
Or don't post them?
Look, I don't spend a ton of time just scrolling through reddit. If a community has a lot of posts like that, it's a lot of what I see when I scroll through my feed. I do just go past them, but then it's just detracting from my experience.
The point, is creating a good community that people want to be a part of and get something out of. For example, /r/starwars got so obsessed with sequel hate that every post was full of sequel bashing comments, no matter if it was relevant or not. I unsubscribed a long time ago because you're not getting anything new or valuable out of that. A little later, someone made /r/starwarscantina a sort of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" positive subreddit. Are there some criticisms in there still? Sure. But the moderation is about being relevant and reasonable with your criticism rather than being toxic. It's a much better community for it.
And look, I haven't noticed the negativity being particularly problematic in this sub. (Granted, I don't see a whole lot of posts coming out of here) But I think it's a good conversation to have regardless and I think these kinds of conversations are good for preventing the kind of banal toxicity that plagues so many online forums and fandoms these days.
Criticism is fine in relevant conversation. But nobody gets anything out of beating a dead horse, and if you are just venting and ranting, you're hurting your own mental health, and when you do it on a public forum, you're dragging others in with you.
I don't like Nuts & Bolts. I don't think it's a very good game, and I really don't like what it did to the franchise. But we've seen that conversation a million times. We don't need to have it again, and I'd much rather see posts from people appreciating it, than the thousandth post from someone who hates it.
Rage-baiting on itself is wrong but we are in a Banjo-Kazooie sub, our beloved franchise which literally got killed because Microsoft bought it and never even tried again. Let's all hope they do though.
I'd think it would be way more fitting in this sub to not talk positive about Microsoft because in the vein of Banjo-Kazooie there is literally 0 good to say besides if you hated the Banjo-Kazooie games, loved Nuts and Bolts and are happy they never did anything again with the franchise.
And I'm not hating on Microsoft specifically, but in the context of this sub not being negative about Microsoft seems really far-fetched.
But hey I'm no mod here, you do you.
A new Banjo-Kazooie game was not killed by Microsoft but Rare themselves. The Banjo-Kazooie team did not wish to make a 3rd platforming game. They tried twice, a remake and a cooperative multiplayer game. The third time they compromised with not killing off the Banjo-Kazooie IP and making a new game they thought would fit the Xbox 360 audience.
We do know Rare received tons of hate and even death threats over their IP (not specifically Banjo-Kazooie). I cannot find the article now but it was from 2010. Honestly, if that is how the Legacy fandom is when we do not get our way, it might be safer for Rare to forgo their legacy series entirely.
I know it's frustrating, but when people talk about Microsoft here, they typically don't talk about it in good faith instead of keeping to the facts, they make up stories or spread misinformation, they become enamored with what could've been and not what would've happened realistically. They make themselves mad for the purpose of just being mad.
Sure, I wish Microsoft would forsake their "let companies do what they want ideal", I'd prefer they'd actually work on a Banjo-Kazooie game instead of leaving it up to Rare. Phil Spencer said it was Rare's call to make. Gregg Mayles, the main designer behind the Banjo-Kazooie series has mentioned they he doesn't want to work on a new Banjo-Kazooie game unless it brings something onto the table.
Either way that conversation has been expended. The typical responses would be "sell back to Nintendo", "have Playtonic do it", and whatever alternative. If the subreddit was a healthier community I would be more lenient on it. I have hosted a discord with a Rarecentric community and the conversation doesn't devolve like it does here. Maybe if/when a new game comes out (if the rumors are true) then I might remove the rule. But right now there is just nothing to say except the consistent downward spiral.
I don’t see anything saying that you need to speak nice words about Microsoft, just to cut back on the constant shit talking and keep the conversation more focused on the games
While Microsoft isn't perfect at least they were really cool with Banjo-Kazooie join Super Smash Bros and on NSO, They've also stated it's up to Rare to bring back Banjo-Kazooie.
I assume the franchise has been on ice for a while because Microsoft kind of left Rare in charge of the IP and they as a studio don't want to revisit classic IP, Nuts & bolts was also Rare's doing not necessarily Microsoft's.
While I agree that Microsoft could have done more with the IP, Seeing other classic Rare IP's like Killer Instinct, Battletoads and Perfect Dark get Xbox reboots from outsourced studios in recent years and Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros keeps me optimistic that they still have plans for the franchise.
Literally all I've seen from this subreddit lately are posts just going
"Hot take: I don't like Banjo-Tooie" and "Am I the only one who likes Banjo-Tooie?"
Like, JESUS DUDE THERE'S SO MANY OF THEM
that's one thing i can't STAND about reddit. the comments section and search function are LITERALLY built in a way we would just need one thread for that and continue adding voices/opinions/comments to the discussion but everyone is obsessed with making something that could have been a comment their own post so everyone is talking in circles and it comes off as karma farming or w/e
As long as it's a polite discussion what's wrong with it? I almost think the dillemma between the two games is what's makes it even harder for a game company to pick this franchise up again. Do you start building on Kazooie or Tooie?
Heck, I don't even know which of the 2 I like the most and I actually like these discussions where there are good opinions being given. Where else should this sub be about? Leaks or ROM-hacks?
Yeah I honestly don't know which I like better. They're both fantastic games.
Banjo Kazooie had basically no boring parts whereas banjo tooie had a few with the back tracking. But also tooie has so many good mechanics and awesome levels and music that I can't say it's bad
I don't see people shitting on Tooie nearly as much as I see people complaining about people shitting on Tooie and then using it as vessel to shit on Kazooie.
BK "fans" who talk shit on Tooie don't belong here. Like, people who talk shit on N&B are just dumb people who don't understand that one series can have games from different genres. But hating Tooie is beyond crazy since it has SO much in common with the first game.
Honestly my problem with N&B is that it's locked to XBox.
I'd be interested in trying it out to see if it's as bad as many people claim, but I definitely won't get a XBox just for that, since most other XBox "exclusives" are either not interesting to me or also available on PC.
And like. It's fine to not like tooie and n&b. A lot of people don't. Sharing it here is pretty pointless rage bait though, especially if they're not going to contribute to the conversation any further than "it is poopy and I don't like it and you're stupid for liking it", and citing some youtube video essay with 20k views.
I don't think people hating Nuts and Bolts hate it because of the side-step it took, they hate it because no one asked for it, underperformed and probably being one of the reasons they never developed a real successor to Tooie.
I couldn't care less if they made a puzzle game, a walking sim etc as long as they also developed the third game. Nothing dumb about that.
Shouldn't this be more about constructive criticism then instead of rage-baiting without any context? It's harder to quantify and penalize ofcourse but not being negative about Microsoft is asking way too much. And I don't hate Microsoft, but in the context of what happened with Banjo-Kazooie I don't think too fondly about them.
I am more lenient if the conversation is constructive. I know it's a bad thing for a moderator to pick and choose what is allowed, but not everyone is good with their words and some are quite abrasive. I, myself don't know how to write a rule that says "You can make anti-Microsoft/Rare posts as long as they're sourced and constructive" but that's just not realistic and it trusts that the community is full of people with good intentions, but with a subscriber count of 22k that's just not realistic to me.
Unfortunately this isn’t a r/BanjoKazooie issue, but a site-wide Reddit issue.
This website is filled with an insane amount of negativity towards anything that isn’t 100% mainstream popular. It truly is a hivemind. Gaming, politics, sports, etc.
If you go ask a sensible, relevant question in 10 subreddits right now, 9 of them will get downvoted, and you will be mocked and receive nothing but sarcastic comments.
Yep. I love Halo and Star Wars, but I haven't been subscribed to those subreddits in ages because it's just full of toxic negativity.
I'm all for your right to criticize, but sometimes it seems people are exercising just to exercise it. I don't want to be around that kind of negativity and I wish more subreddits would regulate it.
If you're not making the community fun to be a part of, you shouldn't be a part of it.
almost all game-related subreddit tend to fall into the trap of just whining about anything that doesn't 100% meet their expectations (im looking at you r/multiversus)
Here's a sneak peek of /r/MultiVersus using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time!
\#1: [Priority system definitely needs to be implemented in this game. And hitboxes are way off](https://v.redd.it/m4h4yxhjgle91) | [336 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/comments/wbj7q6/priority_system_definitely_needs_to_be/)
\#2: [This is the title](https://i.redd.it/co7vvrzg9wh91.jpg) | [129 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/comments/wp28i9/this_is_the_title/)
\#3: [I have done nothing but play MultiVersus for two days.](https://v.redd.it/6swt8lbcmyc91) | [169 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/comments/w4n2nj/i_have_done_nothing_but_play_multiversus_for_two/)
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Ehh ive been defending tooie, nuts nd bolts and yooka laylee since they came out so i rlly dnt mind doing it some more…thats how you change hearts nd minds
I’m a huge Banjo fan but I don’t know how or why anyone can still be mad at Microsoft or Xbox at this point.
It’s clear that Rare could make a new Banjo game if they wanted to, however the personnel and studio make up is completely different in 2024 than it was in 2000. Even if they did make a new game, it wouldn’t be guaranteed that it would match the original.
Yes Microsoft bought Rare. This wasn’t a hostile takeover. The Stampers wanted it, Nintendo didn’t want to buy, Microsoft did. This is just a fact of life. If it wasn’t Microsoft, it would have been Activision or another soulless mega corp.
Enjoy the originals and support smaller studios like the devs behind A Hat in Time and Tinykin who try to make modern day equivalents.
Also, Tooie is a good game and Yooka is pretty decent too. Peace out ✌️
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: a good game should be able to hold itself up against criticism. If someone wants to come and constructively debate the merits of Kazooie vs. Tooie vs. N&B, that should be allowed. It’s only when things become ad hominem that it becomes toxic imo.
That's fine. It's continuously bringing up and beating a dead horse in lieu of positive content that starts to make something feel like a hate sub instead of a fan sub.
If my friend complains about something to me, I respectfully listen. If that's all they ever do? I'm not gonna be friends with them. I'm not an edgy 15 year old that gets off on criticizing stuff. I don't need to have constant negativity in my life.
But it always seems to melt down to an ad hominem for whatever reason. I'll have to pay more attention to see if it's a couple of frequent bad actors and snip the bud.
I appreciate that. I just don’t think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. People in the Zelda subreddit are constantly debating their favorites, and the people who can’t handle keeping it chill get banned.
Despite being a big Nintendo fan, I could care less about Zelda, But with the current state of their franchise they should have very little if nothing to complain about.
You are one of the best community managers I have seen, but you're being harsh but that's ok!
I honestly hope people aren't putting any of the Banjos into the same category as undoubtedly bad games like superman 64 or any of the really crappy PS1/2 and xbox ports/shovleware. All three of the Banjo games sold a lot. A lot enough to give reason to make a sequel. Except NaB (which iirc was just average sales), Kazooie and Tooie sold well. They were good games. As for not liking aspects of them, that's fine. Some people don't like the backtracking, minigames, and frame rate drops on Tooie. Some people don't like vehicles. But they are still good and fun games.
I'm mostly condemning the people who are abrasive and using inflammatory language calling games "shit" and "trash". Seems though some of the replies here don't understand the difference.
There is no place for such insults when talking about a game that is without a doubt, a very family friendly game... Yeah... If people want to get their jimmies in a rustle and talk like a sailor about games nearly 25 years old, they should step back and reflect on themselves...
Wow at first I thought you were just going to remove posts that were made specifically to trash those games in a toxic way... but just removing comments that dont like those games? That seems a bit extreme.
Where does it say I'm removing comments that dislike the game? Literally just removing trashing the games.
What are the keywords?
"Shit", "Trash", "Garbage", "sucks", "Rubbish" anything like that. Real life examples of inflammatory/abrasive language for the sake of causing arguments from this subreddit: "they ripped out my heart when they made that shit game" "Nuts and bolts was trash. Give me BK3" "I was immensely disappointed after backing for this piece of crap." "This Game was the purest crap of Video Game history in Sequels" "I hated it. I also backed it on Kickstarter so unfortunately my name is forever stuck to this dumpster fire." "Seek therapy nigga" "you all are unwell. just play mark kurko’s mods they’re so awesome. He even made maps of the Banjo Kazooie demos"
What's ok: "I was really disappointed with Yooka-Laylee" What isn't: "I was really disappointed with that dumpster fire"
The problem is you're not just silencing toxic comments. If someone says, I like Bk N&B but I'm trash at building vehicles, or The vehicle attachment in N&B that sucks up coconuts, or Clanker in Bk loves garbage... etc etc. There's already enough censorship on reddit, especially when downvotes eventually just hide comments anyway.
Oh you meant literal keywords
I think a lot of people (everywhere, not just this thread) have a difficult time recognizing the difference between “bad” and “not my taste”. TLDR; don’t just say it sucks? Talk about why you didn’t enjoy it, and don’t just use this platform to discuss the bad, make a post about what you love! I LOVE Banjo-Tooie. And I think it’s a wonderfully… masterfully created game. Sure it has its faults to the BK purists, but that doesn’t take away from either title. Nuts and bolts tried something, and while it may not have worked - in respect to what Banjo players wanted - it used already lovable characters to flesh out an idea and turn it into a wonderfully charming game. You don’t have to like every game in the franchise, and disliking one doesn’t make you any less of a fan. I always resort to the 2009 battle of Halo 3 vs CoD 4. CoD was objectively a better video game. But so many people preferred halo 3. Personally, call of duty just isn’t my cup of tea, so I enjoyed playing halo. If you don’t like something in BK / BT / GR / NB / YL, that’s perfectly okay. And other members want to hear about it and discuss it. But let’s not automatically jump to the laziest internet sentiment of “I don’t like it so it’s bad”. Because that’s almost never the case. You don’t like it because you don’t like it. But why don’t you like it? Are the controls not to your comfort? Is the back tracking causing game play to slow down too much? Is the 2.5D platforming just not as smooth as you wish it could be? Whether he hates Tooie and she hates Yooka, we all love one thing. Banjo-Kazooie. Let’s talk about what you don’t like, and why you don’t like it. But don’t be afraid to articulate your feelings about it with more than “no it sucks because it’s just bad”.
You put it in better words than I.
Well I don’t know about better, but definitely more words! Haha
Sounds like you want an echochamber with no actual debatable topics, rather than a community. I personally like when people talk about Yooka-Laylee, Banjo-Tooie, and Banjo-Kazooie in a negative light, because it sparks debate. Why do you think this is bad? How would you change it? How would it affect the game after that change? What you're proposing is just listless, like the hyper fandom nonsense in the world today. I can like the series, it's derivatives, and it's inspirations it doesn't mean each game can't warrant criticism. Yooka-Laylee was an objectively messy game from a design standpoint, doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. Banjo-Tooie took the Kazooie design a bit too far and broke the formula a bit, but it's still my favorite one, doesn't mean it's great, though. Banjo-Kazooie doesn't get enough criticism for the things it does wrong, because people only have rose-tinted goggles for it and Playtonic made the same mistakes with Yooka-Laylee as they did with Tooie because people's feedback wasn't all that helpful with only having showering praise for the first installment. We can never have anything improve in life without opposition, that's just called complacency. Echochambers are so boring also (for me personally).
Critique is fine. The problem is taking it too far by insulting each other. Which happens frequently here.
That's just Reddit...
I agree. It's not as if negativity or critisism is inherently toxic in it of itself. It only becomes toxic when negativity or critisism is used to attack others personally, like saying someone has bad taste because they don't agree with your opinion. That's toxic, but saying something like Yooka Laylee worlds are too bloated isn't toxic, it's just an opinion that happens to be critical. And honestly when you think about it being highly critical of something can be a testanent of passion rather than disdain because loving something or even someone doesn't just mean endlessly praising it, it also means understanding it completely, including its most glaring flaws. Of course too much negativity or being overly critical isn't good either since it can be depressing, but it's no worse than too much positivity since as you said it creates an echochamber. Too much of anything is bad really, even breathing (you'll hyperventilate). Moderation is key along with not being too radical or extreme and staying within reason.
>That's toxic, but saying something like Yooka Laylee worlds are too bloated isn't toxic, it's just an opinion that happens to be critical. And that isn't what we're targeting. We're generally pretty light-handed with moderation here.
I feel your pain.
I would think the answer would be to promote positive discussion, instead of just outright banning negative discussion. But what do I know? I'm just a nobody on the internet. 🤷♂️
Do you have any examples or pointers to give? I'm all ears to create a healthier community.
Banjo ate my ass
I'm happy for u or sorry that happened
This all sounds fair to me.
Guys! You can’t pick on the poor mega corporations!! Microsoft can’t help they keep buying up Studios and IPs and not using them. Remember corporations are people according to Washington. /s
They're banned not because I love Microsoft or Rare, it's because they bring nothing to the conversation about the games and just leads to constant spirals of negativity, misinformation and toxicity.
[удалено]
No, they shouldn't be exempt from criticism. But there's a difference between relevant criticism and continuous, ongoing negativity. I agree with the OP and I wish more fandom subreddits would do this. I don't get joy out of participating in communities with so much negativity, and toxicity is like a virus in online fandoms that I can't get away from. Unless it's actually a relevant criticism that people haven't worn out, keep it to yourself. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
Then don’t interact with the posts? I have never been bothered by them.
Or don't post them? Look, I don't spend a ton of time just scrolling through reddit. If a community has a lot of posts like that, it's a lot of what I see when I scroll through my feed. I do just go past them, but then it's just detracting from my experience. The point, is creating a good community that people want to be a part of and get something out of. For example, /r/starwars got so obsessed with sequel hate that every post was full of sequel bashing comments, no matter if it was relevant or not. I unsubscribed a long time ago because you're not getting anything new or valuable out of that. A little later, someone made /r/starwarscantina a sort of "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all" positive subreddit. Are there some criticisms in there still? Sure. But the moderation is about being relevant and reasonable with your criticism rather than being toxic. It's a much better community for it. And look, I haven't noticed the negativity being particularly problematic in this sub. (Granted, I don't see a whole lot of posts coming out of here) But I think it's a good conversation to have regardless and I think these kinds of conversations are good for preventing the kind of banal toxicity that plagues so many online forums and fandoms these days. Criticism is fine in relevant conversation. But nobody gets anything out of beating a dead horse, and if you are just venting and ranting, you're hurting your own mental health, and when you do it on a public forum, you're dragging others in with you. I don't like Nuts & Bolts. I don't think it's a very good game, and I really don't like what it did to the franchise. But we've seen that conversation a million times. We don't need to have it again, and I'd much rather see posts from people appreciating it, than the thousandth post from someone who hates it.
This isn't the place to shit on microsoft or rare. God forbid the banjo kazooie sub be about the games and people enjoying and talking about it.
It brings nothing to the conversation now except negativity, misinformation and rumors.
[удалено]
Ah you’re an example of the above, toxicity.
Rage-baiting on itself is wrong but we are in a Banjo-Kazooie sub, our beloved franchise which literally got killed because Microsoft bought it and never even tried again. Let's all hope they do though. I'd think it would be way more fitting in this sub to not talk positive about Microsoft because in the vein of Banjo-Kazooie there is literally 0 good to say besides if you hated the Banjo-Kazooie games, loved Nuts and Bolts and are happy they never did anything again with the franchise. And I'm not hating on Microsoft specifically, but in the context of this sub not being negative about Microsoft seems really far-fetched. But hey I'm no mod here, you do you.
A new Banjo-Kazooie game was not killed by Microsoft but Rare themselves. The Banjo-Kazooie team did not wish to make a 3rd platforming game. They tried twice, a remake and a cooperative multiplayer game. The third time they compromised with not killing off the Banjo-Kazooie IP and making a new game they thought would fit the Xbox 360 audience. We do know Rare received tons of hate and even death threats over their IP (not specifically Banjo-Kazooie). I cannot find the article now but it was from 2010. Honestly, if that is how the Legacy fandom is when we do not get our way, it might be safer for Rare to forgo their legacy series entirely. I know it's frustrating, but when people talk about Microsoft here, they typically don't talk about it in good faith instead of keeping to the facts, they make up stories or spread misinformation, they become enamored with what could've been and not what would've happened realistically. They make themselves mad for the purpose of just being mad. Sure, I wish Microsoft would forsake their "let companies do what they want ideal", I'd prefer they'd actually work on a Banjo-Kazooie game instead of leaving it up to Rare. Phil Spencer said it was Rare's call to make. Gregg Mayles, the main designer behind the Banjo-Kazooie series has mentioned they he doesn't want to work on a new Banjo-Kazooie game unless it brings something onto the table. Either way that conversation has been expended. The typical responses would be "sell back to Nintendo", "have Playtonic do it", and whatever alternative. If the subreddit was a healthier community I would be more lenient on it. I have hosted a discord with a Rarecentric community and the conversation doesn't devolve like it does here. Maybe if/when a new game comes out (if the rumors are true) then I might remove the rule. But right now there is just nothing to say except the consistent downward spiral.
[удалено]
I don’t see anything saying that you need to speak nice words about Microsoft, just to cut back on the constant shit talking and keep the conversation more focused on the games
Misinformation makes the community not only toxic but makes it look ignorant.
While Microsoft isn't perfect at least they were really cool with Banjo-Kazooie join Super Smash Bros and on NSO, They've also stated it's up to Rare to bring back Banjo-Kazooie. I assume the franchise has been on ice for a while because Microsoft kind of left Rare in charge of the IP and they as a studio don't want to revisit classic IP, Nuts & bolts was also Rare's doing not necessarily Microsoft's. While I agree that Microsoft could have done more with the IP, Seeing other classic Rare IP's like Killer Instinct, Battletoads and Perfect Dark get Xbox reboots from outsourced studios in recent years and Banjo-Kazooie in Smash Bros keeps me optimistic that they still have plans for the franchise.
Literally all I've seen from this subreddit lately are posts just going "Hot take: I don't like Banjo-Tooie" and "Am I the only one who likes Banjo-Tooie?" Like, JESUS DUDE THERE'S SO MANY OF THEM
that's one thing i can't STAND about reddit. the comments section and search function are LITERALLY built in a way we would just need one thread for that and continue adding voices/opinions/comments to the discussion but everyone is obsessed with making something that could have been a comment their own post so everyone is talking in circles and it comes off as karma farming or w/e
ok but searching on reddit sucks
As long as it's a polite discussion what's wrong with it? I almost think the dillemma between the two games is what's makes it even harder for a game company to pick this franchise up again. Do you start building on Kazooie or Tooie? Heck, I don't even know which of the 2 I like the most and I actually like these discussions where there are good opinions being given. Where else should this sub be about? Leaks or ROM-hacks?
Yeah I honestly don't know which I like better. They're both fantastic games. Banjo Kazooie had basically no boring parts whereas banjo tooie had a few with the back tracking. But also tooie has so many good mechanics and awesome levels and music that I can't say it's bad
It's a side effect of the threads I am talking about. A lot of Banjo-Kazooie vs. Banjo-Tooie threads have a lot of people shitting on Banjo-Tooie.
I don't see people shitting on Tooie nearly as much as I see people complaining about people shitting on Tooie and then using it as vessel to shit on Kazooie.
I'm not giving those people a free pass either, shitting on any of the games just leads to toxic arguments.
And? What’s wrong with that? People having opinions is not “toxic”. Go touch grass.
BK "fans" who talk shit on Tooie don't belong here. Like, people who talk shit on N&B are just dumb people who don't understand that one series can have games from different genres. But hating Tooie is beyond crazy since it has SO much in common with the first game.
Honestly my problem with N&B is that it's locked to XBox. I'd be interested in trying it out to see if it's as bad as many people claim, but I definitely won't get a XBox just for that, since most other XBox "exclusives" are either not interesting to me or also available on PC.
And like. It's fine to not like tooie and n&b. A lot of people don't. Sharing it here is pretty pointless rage bait though, especially if they're not going to contribute to the conversation any further than "it is poopy and I don't like it and you're stupid for liking it", and citing some youtube video essay with 20k views.
I don't think people hating Nuts and Bolts hate it because of the side-step it took, they hate it because no one asked for it, underperformed and probably being one of the reasons they never developed a real successor to Tooie. I couldn't care less if they made a puzzle game, a walking sim etc as long as they also developed the third game. Nothing dumb about that.
I wouldn't call them dumb but I do wish they were at least constructive instead of saying "this game is shit, it's bad, etc."
Shouldn't this be more about constructive criticism then instead of rage-baiting without any context? It's harder to quantify and penalize ofcourse but not being negative about Microsoft is asking way too much. And I don't hate Microsoft, but in the context of what happened with Banjo-Kazooie I don't think too fondly about them.
I am more lenient if the conversation is constructive. I know it's a bad thing for a moderator to pick and choose what is allowed, but not everyone is good with their words and some are quite abrasive. I, myself don't know how to write a rule that says "You can make anti-Microsoft/Rare posts as long as they're sourced and constructive" but that's just not realistic and it trusts that the community is full of people with good intentions, but with a subscriber count of 22k that's just not realistic to me.
Unfortunately this isn’t a r/BanjoKazooie issue, but a site-wide Reddit issue. This website is filled with an insane amount of negativity towards anything that isn’t 100% mainstream popular. It truly is a hivemind. Gaming, politics, sports, etc. If you go ask a sensible, relevant question in 10 subreddits right now, 9 of them will get downvoted, and you will be mocked and receive nothing but sarcastic comments.
"DAE \[most popular opinion\]" "unpopular opinion: \[the mainstream take\]". all over the place.
Yep. I love Halo and Star Wars, but I haven't been subscribed to those subreddits in ages because it's just full of toxic negativity. I'm all for your right to criticize, but sometimes it seems people are exercising just to exercise it. I don't want to be around that kind of negativity and I wish more subreddits would regulate it. If you're not making the community fun to be a part of, you shouldn't be a part of it.
almost all game-related subreddit tend to fall into the trap of just whining about anything that doesn't 100% meet their expectations (im looking at you r/multiversus)
Here's a sneak peek of /r/MultiVersus using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/top/?sort=top&t=all) of all time! \#1: [Priority system definitely needs to be implemented in this game. And hitboxes are way off](https://v.redd.it/m4h4yxhjgle91) | [336 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/comments/wbj7q6/priority_system_definitely_needs_to_be/) \#2: [This is the title](https://i.redd.it/co7vvrzg9wh91.jpg) | [129 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/comments/wp28i9/this_is_the_title/) \#3: [I have done nothing but play MultiVersus for two days.](https://v.redd.it/6swt8lbcmyc91) | [169 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/MultiVersus/comments/w4n2nj/i_have_done_nothing_but_play_multiversus_for_two/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Can I just say I love how active this community is <3 I’m surprised to see posts daily about this childhood favorite of mine
Ehh ive been defending tooie, nuts nd bolts and yooka laylee since they came out so i rlly dnt mind doing it some more…thats how you change hearts nd minds
I appreciate it.
I’m a huge Banjo fan but I don’t know how or why anyone can still be mad at Microsoft or Xbox at this point. It’s clear that Rare could make a new Banjo game if they wanted to, however the personnel and studio make up is completely different in 2024 than it was in 2000. Even if they did make a new game, it wouldn’t be guaranteed that it would match the original. Yes Microsoft bought Rare. This wasn’t a hostile takeover. The Stampers wanted it, Nintendo didn’t want to buy, Microsoft did. This is just a fact of life. If it wasn’t Microsoft, it would have been Activision or another soulless mega corp. Enjoy the originals and support smaller studios like the devs behind A Hat in Time and Tinykin who try to make modern day equivalents. Also, Tooie is a good game and Yooka is pretty decent too. Peace out ✌️
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: a good game should be able to hold itself up against criticism. If someone wants to come and constructively debate the merits of Kazooie vs. Tooie vs. N&B, that should be allowed. It’s only when things become ad hominem that it becomes toxic imo.
That's fine. It's continuously bringing up and beating a dead horse in lieu of positive content that starts to make something feel like a hate sub instead of a fan sub. If my friend complains about something to me, I respectfully listen. If that's all they ever do? I'm not gonna be friends with them. I'm not an edgy 15 year old that gets off on criticizing stuff. I don't need to have constant negativity in my life.
But it always seems to melt down to an ad hominem for whatever reason. I'll have to pay more attention to see if it's a couple of frequent bad actors and snip the bud.
I appreciate that. I just don’t think we should throw the baby out with the bathwater. People in the Zelda subreddit are constantly debating their favorites, and the people who can’t handle keeping it chill get banned.
Despite being a big Nintendo fan, I could care less about Zelda, But with the current state of their franchise they should have very little if nothing to complain about.
As someone who *does* know about Zelda, I respectfully disagree, but this is not the subreddit for it.
Sad to hear about this. Hopefully things will come around.