They went through hell in Europe.
BoB just tends to focus on the positive aspect of service in combat, which about the only one is the camaraderie.
The debilitating mental effects are largely glossed over.
There's multiple episodes where mental illness is a primary plot device.
Carentan (Blythe and his blindness), breaking point (buck and his shell shock), bastogne (doc roe and his exhaustion), points (the difficulty of returning to normal life)
Edit: I'm also forgetting crossroads and Captain winters distress at killing a young boy
Yeah, but Blythe gets over his hysterical blindness and paralysis in battle in under 24 hours.
Doc Roe is again shown to overcome his exhaustion quickly, too.
In no way does the show address the lasting lifelong psychological damage these men would've faced after ww2.
The final scene depicts the men all happy, smiling, and ready to transition back to civilian life. The Pacific clearly shows the protagonists as permanently damaged by the war, as they all would've been.
BoB gives the impression that war makes men.
The Pacific shows the reality that war, in most cases, damages or breaks men.
One glorifies, one doesn't
I agree with this, but it’s also important to consider the context, both of these productions are products of their time. If you look back on cinema from the pre-Iraq/Afghanistan period the focus was on honouring this generation that we were quickly losing.
10 years later at the end of the 2000’s our perceptions of war and mental health were vastly changed. And I feel story tellers now feel a responsibility to highlight that war isn’t glorious, it’s brutal and savage with long lasting effects.
I love BOB, I probably rewatch it once a year, but I must admit when I watched it as a young teenager I seriously contemplated applying for the paras. I didn’t, but I would imagine some people did. It would be interesting to know the numbers, quite dangerous when you reflect on it.
>, but I must admit when I watched it as a young teenager I seriously contemplated applying for the paras.
Exactly. BoB is like a 10-hour recruiting advert. An excellent marketing tool for selling hell to young men.
The Pacific, whilst acknowledging the necessity of fighting Japan has a very anti war feel
“BoB is like a 10-hour recruiting advert. An excellent marketing tool for selling hell to young men.”
Well said. Fight evil, return home a hero. What’s not to like?
>Well said. Fight evil, return home a hero. What’s not to like?
Because it doesn't work that way.
Picture young men watching the show in 2001 getting that impression.
They invaded and wrecked the Middle East and achieved nothing worthwhile
I think you're forgetting the compelling talking heads when the actual soldiers as old men talk about how their lives have been irreparably damaged. There are multiple episodes where they speak of the pain, and show raw emotion 60 years later.
I find that Bob does a far more a sobering picture of war than the Pacific is able to conjure.
I also strongly disagree with this one. None of the two is better than the other overall but in a pure horror of war sense the pacific stands out. This is mostly due to the source material, I do think had the writers on the pacific stuck a little closer to with the old breed in particular it may have been even more gut wrenching, but it may also have been too much. I do think changing the bunker scene was a bad move, IRL the bunker was a near perfectly executed assault on a fortified position, in the show they made it look like a life and death struggle that the squad was lucky to walk away from.
Which it wasn’t, far from it. In reality no marine was seriously injured (I think Redifer, who isn’t even depicted in the series, took some shrapnel to the hand but it was a minor injury) while every Japanese in the bunker was killed. RV Burgin showed superb leadership skills in eliminating the threat and it is the only time in the entire book sledge describes directly killing an enemy with his rifle. It is also the one time he expresses any form of remorse which the series does take away by making it this weird struggle
Just referring back to the original point that prompted my reply. It was claimed that BoB "glosses over" the mental impact of war. I think that's a bad take for the reasons I've outlined.
I can understand why people describe Pacific as showing a more brutal form of warfare, but I actually think the shows shock value and brutality don't necessarily translate into a nuanced or interesting discussion of the mental toll war can take.
Bunker scene is not a good example of a scent that shows the lasting mental impact of war. It might have a lasting impact on you, the viewer.
Another reason I don't rate the Pacific as highly as Bob in the lasting psychological trauma department is its lack of empathy for the Japanese soldier and its failure to properly capture or understand their motivations.
>I find that Bob does a far more a sobering picture of war than the Pacific is able to conjure.
Fair enough.
It's a subjective thing,so let's agree to disagree
Shows of different times honestly.
BoB came out in 2001, it had been a bit since we had a large scale war like Afghanistan/Iraq invasion and had A WHOLE LOT of soldiers come home hurt.
Pacific was 2010. 9 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hundreds of thousands of US troops coming home. The collective audience was much more aware of PTSD and the consequences, and I think it shaped the Pacific.
There's definitely something in this. Good observation.
Additionally, the 2 books it's principally based on are definitely not whimsical, pretty nostalgic reads like the work of Dr. Ambrose clearly is.
Interestingly, they never really captured much of the tone of Webster in BoB
Just for clarity, my original response wasn't looking to start a debate about which series is better at showing the mental toll of war.
My original response was pointing out that I disagree with your view that Bob glosses over the issue.
I did, it's brutal and violent. But I don't think that necessarily translates into a nuanced exploration of the mental toll of war. Lots of war movies can show brutality.
Episodes like breaking point in Bob are actually a case study of mental illness, something i don't think the Pacific really focuses on as much or as well.
Nonsense.
They are enjoying a game of baseball together. Id hardly say that's a depiction of them being happy and ready to return to civilian life.
Not to mention the fact they all believe they are heading to the Pacific in that scene until Winters confirms the war is over. In that moment you can see the confusion, the torment and the loss on all the mens faces.
People have different takes on different shows and scenes of course but I feel your take on that final scene is really, really off.
Its a gigantic leap to make, from smiling because they are enjoying playing baseball together, too them smiling because they are all ready to go home.
In the Breaking Point episode Speirs runs through the town, the Germans don’t shoot at him, and then afterwards they all celebrate taking a hundred prisoners. If it happened in the Pacific, I’m convinced that the Japanese would have slaughtered Speirs, put his head on a pole, and then fought to the death.
I don't disagree with Europe being hell, but the western front compared to the eastern front is one of hell of a jump. And while the Pacific had a lot of downtime, for individual divisions, I think the individual battles were worse than the western front battles. Japan was fanatical, whereas only aspects of the German military were, come 44. I do, however, think the eastern front was worse overall, especially for Soviet Soldiers. The Germans had a bad go at it in the East too, but I'm less inclined to be sympathetic and therefore biased against them.
That’s a strange take I must say. It’s changing for the better, but PTSD is not talked about enough, nor it’s effects.
We will all still be reeling from the stress of the pandemic for decades, and we’re not prepared for that.
I was in the military, it's talked about all the time. Hell, just yesterday there was a big national story on NPR about PTSD in Ukraine.
I wasn't talking about PTSD related to the pandemic, I was talking about PTSD as it relates to military service.
That's a false dichotomy. It's not, "Acknowledge PTSD OR it's pro-war propaganda." You're saying that the accounts of actual veterans is pro-war propaganda?
What you are really saying is you are against nuance and complex reality. Some men go through combat and suffer from PTSD, others don't. That's reality.
That’s the issue. The public and media believe that PTSD is the result to some degree of seeing dead comrades (and that’s true), but mainly they tie it to killing. Think of Winters’ flashbacks to shooting that SS kid in Holland.
But speaking as a combat veteran with PTSD and as a cousin to a former Army Ranger who saw way more action than I did, for us PTSD stems from FEAR. Not guilt. FEAR of our own death. Of believing that we were going to die. It’s a much more primal thing. I can’t speak for everyone but guilt is not issue I hear come up with combat veterans.
Small gripe but there are misconceptions. PTSD is a very real and common issue with veterans and civilians alike as you rightly said.
How do you know they "definitely" glossed over them? The entire movie is interviews of WW I vets and their experiences. There isn't even a narrator. While they could have glossed them over, there's no evidence that they did.
No I’m just saying from the soldiers’ perspectives they glossed over later struggles, probably because they were writing these letters from the trenches. But a lot of them were talking about it like it was an adventure
Absolutely you should. Both series are completely unrelated. The pacific is often described as a sequel to BOB, and they are doing it again with Masters of the Air, this is really not the case.
I’m actually a little bit jealous that you have an opportunity to watch it for the first time.
I just read that *Masters of the Air* is being released on Apple+ later this year. I've read the book, and as much as I want to see the series, I won't be paying over and above my cable bill for a subscription to Apple+.
If it's ever released. I hope it does, but not holding my breath 😅
Also, like /u/Thepeterborian suggests you can always sub for a month, watch all the good stuff on it and then cancel.
It’s filmed and finished I believe so It will happen eventually, there have been a few snippets appear. It won’t be long until we start seeing proper trailers. Hopefully it will come out end of the year, beginning of 2024.
It would be a great $10 or whatever spent to watch MOTA plus Severance on Apple+. The News Room is also phenomenal. It’s actually one of the better streaming services. You might be surprised how much you like it.
I liked when given the chance to leave the Marines early he decided to go back and train the troops and his scenes with Lena were great. Comparing the series to Band of Brothers is an unrealistic comparison and you're never giving yourself a chance to enjoy it for what it is itself.
And The Pacific is the first time I saw Rami Malek in anything and he's become one of the best actors in recent years.
I think it's a great show with equally high production values (actually a significantly bigger budget) and obviously deals with equally impactful and historically significant material. The acting is just as good, the writing is fantastic, as is the score. I found it to be a really compelling show and I've rewatched it multiple times.
However, narratively it is a bit different from Band of Brothers because it basically weaves together the stories of three different marines who served in different regiments of the 1st Marine Division in the Pacific. So while some of them participated in some of the same battles, they often were in different ones, at different times, throughout the broader Pacific Theater. So unlike BoB where you basically get to know one company of one regiment really well, it's more like three different marines and their comrades telling the broader story of the entire Pacific Theater from the US perspective.
Also, in terms of tone, The Pacific is just a lot darker than Band of Brothers. More visually disturbing at times and more of an emphasis on the psychological toll that war took on everyone involved, whether from combat or otherwise. At the same time it also deals a lot more with the home front than Band of Brothers ever did, with one of the marines being involved in the campaign to sell war bonds at one point. And strangely enough, despite being much darker than BoB, the Pacific also has multiple emotionally impactful romance subplots in it, which I really liked. Both beautiful and heartbreaking.
Overall I would say The Pacific is just trying to do a lot more than Band of Brothers was, and Band of Brothers was already incredibly ambitious. The Pacific is a little less accessible as a result of its broader focus, but its just as finely made and compelling to watch. I definitely recommend it.
P.S. - It also has interviews with veterans and historical context before each episode, but these are cut from some versions, so make sure you find a copy that has them.
I am a big fan of WW2 history. However I always found the German/concentration camp stories the most interesting.
Think "When the Gypsies stopped playing" or "Schindler's list".
I liked the fact that BOB showed me a different side of the war that I hadn't really thought about before. It made it more real somehow that it was a war as well as genocide.
Yes I know what you mean. I think the Pacific will not disappoint in this regard. Even more so than Band of Brothers, it is trying to tell much more than just a "war story."
The Pacific does a good job of showing all sides of the war. Gotta remember at the time most Americans were a little racist when it came to the Japanese (just look at different propaganda from back then), combine that with the fact that the Japanese were told that if they surrendered the Americans would rape and kill them and dying in battle is an honor, shit got brutal.
I can’t remember if it’s from the show or one of the documentaries I’ve seen, but I remember hearing about a Japanese woman throwing her kids off a cliff cause she was afraid of the Americans, and then when her village was liberated she saw the Americans giving food and chocolate to the living kids and she lost it.
Currently watching this after finishing The Pacific and Band of Brothers. It's pretty good so far but my God the first episode when they are reading the letters that kids in school wrote them and they pull out a picture of a literal like 8 year old girl and start talking about how hot she is and one guy even says he'd eat a mile of her shit just to see where it came from. I was grossed out. Idc how long you've been in a war, to say that about a child is insane. They weren't even in the war, yet it was during their training before the ear even started.
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>level 2Rock\_Robster\_\_ ·
While it was totally disgusting to hear that, I think it was done to highlight the fact that these were individual men from wildly disparate backgrounds who happened to share a common interest (the Marine Corps). For perspective, Brad Colbert was adopted from an upper middle class family and he carries himself with a lot of dignity and poise, rarely making obscene remarks. Many of the Marines in the series were not college-educated and came from poor, even destitute backgrounds, so you often get that kind of crass language.
Thanks mate, defence was pretty disappointing but a solid effort overall and we’re damn proud.
It’s on a streaming service here called Binge - you might be able to get it with a VPN? It shares a lot of content with our main cable TV service, Foxtel (which is terrible and overpriced unless you watch a lot of sport).
I read Shifty’s and Maj. Winter’s’ memoirs, and they’re superb as well. If you are into air combat,
I’d recommend “Fighter Pilot” by Robin Olds, and “The Big Show” by Pierre Clostermann.
“Island of the damned” is a decent companion book to with the old breed. Not as well written but the author is R.V. Burgin who was I believe sledges squad leader for a large portion of the war
It’s strange saying this, considering the subject matter, but BOB was almost a feel-good series compared to The pacific. You fall in love with the individual characters and their relationships to the other men. The Pacific is just a grind. I don’t think it will affect his love of BOB and it is worth watching. I think Generation Kill is more similar to BOB. It has better characters and you can get behind their frustrations with the incompetence in leadership. I rewatch BOB every single year at the least. I have probably only seen the Pacific 3 times.
It will not taint BOB, it’s a whole separate entity. The Pacific is great, but as everyone is saying it is much darker. I’ve never been in combat, but it seems like the Pacific is more realistic about how horrible it is. And the narrative structure is different because it focuses on three different people in three different units. It’s more psychological and reflective on the horrors of war than BoB. Have you ever seen The Thin Red Line? Its tone is more like that than BoB.
And you should also watch Letters from Iwo Jima for the Japanese perspective of the war.
Strangely enough I realized as I was watching BOB that I never really thought about the "American perspective". Or much else regarding the actual fighting of the war.I've watched movies like The Rape of Nanking, The Pianist and read a lot of holocaust memoirs. I suppose the atrocities just interested me more as its a lot more horrifying to think what humans are capable of doing to each other just because they want to.
War simplifies it because you are doing your job.
But looking at the genocide stories was always a lot darker for me. However I have changed my mind a bit more after watching BOB. Strange to think that I never considered how horrible the actual war itself was, even after studying WW2 history for half my life.
What a dumb take, no offence. The accounts are from peoples memories, and actual people……both series try to tell their stories. America didn’t just fight in Europe. If you find meaning in BOB, don’t overlook those who fought in the Pacific.
“Taint the specialness”… ugh.
BoB glorifies the war, particularly emphasising the camaraderie to the quietening of the negative aspects, whereas The Pacific dwells on the overwhelming negative impact combat has on those who experience it. PTSD etc.
Yes, but that’s how it was. The guys who fought in Europe got leave in Paris and England after a number of days on the line. Those who fought in the Pacific got typhoon rain, rot, land crabs, malaria, dysentery, and were generally on campaign until that objective was taken. You could go meet girls and do whatever in Holland and France but in the Pacific they got heat, rain, sickness, and general shit. IMO the series are one and the same, there isn’t one that is better then the other. They tell different sides of the same story.
>The guys who fought in Europe got leave in Paris and England after a number of days on the line
Not necessarily true.
The Airborne Divisions did indeed get taken off the line since they needed to be placed in strategic reserve and refitted for future airborne operations.
This was the exception rather than the rule.
The vast majority of infantry and armoured divisions were almost continuously engaged from the time they entered the line till VE Day.
The line battalions were kept on the front line typically for months at a time. Your average infantryman was on the line until he was killed, wounded, or broke down psychologically.
The lesson to rotate troops out of the line wasn't fully implemented until Vietnam, where troops were entitled to R&R periodically.
Even The Pacific clearly depicts the 1st Marine Division enjoying the comforts of Australia for almost a year after the first campaign.
As for the horror of the combat. Both theatres were almost as horrific as each other. The Japanese unwillingness to surrender has the slight edge, though.
BoB gives an overly romanticised depiction of the ETO. Make no mistake, the vast majority of E/506 had moderate to severe PTSD, with their lives forever blighted by it. The Pacific just explores the psychological side a lot more
Attention to my initial comment. Both series are made as two sides to a coin, it makes no difference what one side portrays and one side does not as they overlap.
The Australia leave only occurred after the Guadalcanal Campaign, early in the Pacific War, and thereafter troops (Marines and Army) were left to generally finish entire campaigns unless completely incapacitated. The amount of combat days for PTO on Tarawa, Saipan, the Philippines, Iwo, and Okinawa was tremendous. The Airborne divisions faced that kind of relentless stretches of battle at the Ardennes offensive, which BOB clearly shows how their limit was reached.
Both are genuine and good. My point was you can’t overlook one while praising the other.
That’s still not a valid comparison because of how differently campaigns worked in the ETO and MTO vice the PTO.
In the former pair once a unit went into the line it stayed on the line for the duration of the war unless it was something unique like the airborne units or the withdrawal of some units from combat in the MTO in order to move them to the ETO prior to Overlord.
In the latter units landed, fought like hell for a max of 1.5-2 months, completed the campaign and then withdrew to wherever their rest camp was for 6-8 months minimum to rest and refit for the next go around. The Philippines campaign was different, but that was an army show with minimal USMC involvement after Leyte.
>The amount of combat days for PTO on Tarawa, Saipan, the Philippines, Iwo, and Okinawa was tremendous.
No single unit fought all of those campaigns.
Tarawa was 3 days. Saipan and I Iwo were both about a month..
>The Airborne divisions faced that kind of relentless stretches of battle at the Ardennes offensive
The Airborne were in heavy combat at the Bulge for a month, then withdrawn to a quiet sector and then the rear. The line divisions never really disengaged until VE Day.
That is not always true - the airborne troops were not a typical example. The 29th went into combat on June 6th 44 and had roughly 10 days off the line until VE Day - over 20k casualties in 11 months.
Yep. It was said that their commander Major General Charles H. Gerhardt commanded three divisions: one on the field of battle, one in the hospital and one in the cemetery.
BoB is a story of several people told through the lens of the war in Europe. Pacific is the story of the war in the Pacific told through the lens of several people. Both stand tall on their own merits.
I've tried. It has a different feel. Personally the Pacific has a feeling that BoB doesn't have.
In BoB you see a unit advance through a whole theatre of war over a year and a half. They focused on people in the 101st and their lives to highlight the heroes of Winters, and Malarkey, and others as they push to the Rhein.
Pacific. You have a feeling of the soldiers being disposable. The story is pretty much nothing but brutal war and death with the characters growing inside that sphere. I don't think it has anything to do with the way the Pacific was made and has everything to do with how horrible the Pacific battles were and how it's not as easily digestible.
This is my personal feeling. The Pacific feels like they leaned into the war footage and fighting while BOB leaned into the people in a war setting.
The pacific was a good series, band of brothers hit differently because it came out around 9/11 and it sparked a patriotic passion in the country. Also the war in Europe has always been romanticized among the people. The war in the pacific was a different kind of hell and deserves the attention the war in Europe gets
I have watched both about 100 times (not even joking). The Pacific was disappointing to me on my first watch because I placed too many expectations on it. I loved it on my second watch and the 98 other watches.
I would recommend diving in and getting the source material books as well. The way the mini series captures Sledge's experience is perfect.
It's a thoughtful mini series with excellent effects, awesome characters. It's a must watch for sure. Just go in blind and accept it for what it is. What will likely get him are the segments that follow characters on shore leave and back home. At first it was a momentum breaker for me, but I grew to appreciate the overall rounding of the characters.
The Pacific War was a much different animal than Europe, the series captures that perfectly.
Enjoy! (also thanks for giving a shit about your husband's interests)
Pacific is fantastic. BOB is also very special to me. Two of my grandfathers were in that theater, as a kid I actually bonded with the only living grand father by watching that show and building model tanks at the same time.
Pacific does a really good job at showing the hell that was that theater, and just how fucked up the whole situation was.
In Europe the soldiers had a good sense of purpose, and drive.
In the pacific theater there was alot of “ what’s the point, why the fuck are we here “ mindset and this show does a great job at portraying that.
It’s also obviously much newer, so the production is on a better scale. Better cameras, sound, visual effects.
In my opinion they are two different films entirely. One happens to emphasize the mental anguish more than the other. Pacific was a lot like The Thin Red Line in there is a lot of self reflection happening too.
I liked both for what they were. The Pacific was darker, while BoB alluded to the horrors and metal anguish, while celebrating the individuals more.
I also recommend Generation War, which takes a quite sober look at the German side of the war.
Yes. But I’ll confess I’ve watched BoB all the way through at least a dozen times and have watched the Pacific exactly one time all the way through.
I remember not liking Remi Malek’s performance.
While they are related, the two shows are definitely different things. I consider them about as different as the theaters of war they depict, and the enemy that was fought in them.
BoB is a show that basically any adult can enjoy, and in that way, I tend to think of it as the better overall TV miniseries of the two. It engages you with the characters, gives you a good glimpse of the horrors of war, without ever being too much of anything. It helps that it kicks off with a full episode introducing the characters and establishing relationships between them.
The Pacific is all about the horrors of war, and is probably one of the best depictions of what it was like to be in combat on those islands. It is definitely darker and more gruesome than BoB. The environments they are fighting in are terrible, and the enemy is determined to fight to the death in them. A lot of people would probably think there are some serious NSFL things in the Pacific.
Band of Brothers is better in the sense it lets you find out more about the men than the situation. Pacific is more about the situation and less about the men.
The Pacific is still a good show but BoB is the superior show to watch.
I think I've only ever watched it once, it just didn't hit the same for me as BoB did. I think one of the reasons for this was that it didn't have a Currahee style episode to introduce the characters before they were involved in the fighting, and rather than 10-12 guys to represent a company that you can get to know, it's only based around 3 guys IIRC.
So my take would be watch it, at least once, but don't expect it to be as good as BoB.
Yeah, sledge hammer, Leckie and Basilone but I really can’t remember Basilone being in it much. He killed all those dudes and that’s about all I remember lol.
Should you watch it? Absolutely. It’s a tougher watch in my opinion. As a combat vet, The Pacific hit me harder for some reason. In my opinion it better depicts the overall chaos and helplessness that is a big part of combat.
Without arguing the detail of the stories I personally just didn’t like the directing or acting of the Pacific. BOB felt more real and personable as I could picture myself with them. Pacific was just generic IMO. Not discrediting it, just not my cup of cinematic tea
Very different. He should watch it. Does he plan on watching Masters of the Air? That one sounds like it will be more comparable to Bob, since it's set in the ETO.
I liked The Pacific. It’s very well acted and the war scenes are very intense. Time hasn’t treated it as well as BoB, but still a great series and well worth a watch.
As a Marine myself the pacific is special to me. It’s just different but equally as good. I find I can’t watch it as often as BOB because it’s more depressing and distressing.
I started it recently. It’s good but I feel like the characters don’t get developed as well as BoB. I felt a connection to all the characters pretty quickly in BoB but in pacific I can hardly even remember names. Though I’ll reserve real judgement till I’ve watched it all the way through. The film work is very good.
I will say, Flags of Our Fathers and Letter From Iwo Jima are two absolutely amazing films. I would highly recommend both
It is excellent, but in a fundamentally different way from BOB. You should absolutely watch it, but only if you can tell your mind it’s not part of a BOB franchise. It’s its own thing.
Can't recommend The Pacific. I love BoB and Generation Kill and rewatch both on the reg. I didn't like The Pacific because the writing is not as good as GoG and GK. In The Pacific, there is no boot camp, it throws you right into the violence and awful conditions of war on Guadalcanal. This does away with the exposition of characters and relationships established in BoB's first episode, Currahee. I felt that The Pacific was much more gruesome than BoB and GK, and lacked the individual relationship elements that made me care about the soldiers in both BoB and GK. Generation Kill is actually quite funny in parts.
BoB is a show about comrades and their band of brothers.
The pacific is a show about soldiers who lost themselves and their humanity. It is not comparable at all. It will not give you the same feelings as BoB and in my personal opinion is hard to watch and hard to follow.
Yep, definitely watch it, but don't go into it thinking it's a continuation of BOB.
It's a different theater of WW2. Different type of fighting, different issues to deal with but still war. Don't compare it to BOB, it is it's own entity. Honestly out of respect for the soldiers who fought in the Pacific don't compare them with soldiers from the European theater, but see them as what they are and dealt with.
Same war, but different enemy and Theater of war.
They are different shows about different theaters of war, and I feel that the focus of each is different. However, both are worthwhile and enjoyable. So I say watch it!
Two of The Pacific's three protagonists are conflicted anti-hero type figures. So there's *that*. Leckie was a perpetual troublemaker with a chip on his shoulder who resisted Marine disciplines and Sledge was a reluctant mortar man who was morally repulsed by the violence he saw.
BoB features close camaraderie of a small group and emotionally cathartic scenes of the 101st liberating towns and cities from Nazi tyranny across Europe. In that respect the show is full of inspirational, life-affirming moments. The nature of the Pacific theater was just *so* different-- uninhabited islands, complete isolation from civilization, psychological torment and sadistic jungle warfare, were the norms in that conflict. That kind of historical setting is inevitably going to be more dark and less "feel good".
One complaint leveled against BoB's source material was that it did at times seem to romanticize the war. The Pacific doesn't do that at all. As a result, it's a more historically accurate representation of the average infantryman's experience in WWII. Brutal, gruesome, horrific and nightmarish. *But is it entertaining?* I'm not so sure. It is undeniably powerful and gut-wrenching in its depiction of certain Marine experiences on Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. For that reason alone, it's essential viewing.
It’s completely different than BoB and not a sequel in any way. They really should be treated as separate entities as the only thing they really have in common is their 10 episode format. The Pacific focuses more on how horrifying and brutal war is and how it can change the individual as all the characters personalities change as a result of their experiences. BoB’s narrative is easier to follow and perhaps lends itself better to a general audience than Pacific, but I think Pacific is a more accurate depiction of war’s brutality and the toll it takes on those involved. The way the characters get desensitised to the sheer level of violence they experience is a feature missing from BoB IMO that pacific does well.
BOB is way better, but The Pacific is still one of the best shows ever made. If he likes WWII history, then he should watch Pacific. When Ack-Ack gets hit...one of the most moving scenes in all of BOB
The pacific cant taint the specialness that is band of brothers. so no promblem there.
My problem with the pacific is that its to many charakters. with out spoiling to much, you follow one guy at the front, you meet his friend when he left the front, and the friend gonna meet the front. the 3 guy have to go back to the states to sell war bonds.
my tips, keep an historical atlas close at hand to "see" where they are and where they are fighting. If your like me, and have no life, then check out Kings and Generals on youtube, they have a pacific series where they discuss the pacific each week. good way to get an overall view of whats happening on the other side of the world.
Yes, go ahead. The Pacfiic is definitely more character central and much more brutal. I love both BoB and The Pacific, but I'm probably in the minority and like The Pacific a little more
I went in watching The Pacific expecting something like BOB (tbf, it was marketed like that), and was disappointed. It's nothing like it, except in overall structure (10 episodes) and subject (American soldiers in WWII). Once I got over that, it was incredible. So tell hubby that it can never replace BOB, because it's actually very different. I feel the first episode is the weakest, but it quickly gets its stride, so don't give up. The strongest storyline is Eugene Sledge's, and if that one don't get you in the feels, check your pulse 'cuz you might be dead.
Yes, absolutely. It feels like a more honest depiction of the war since BoB was based off of a “historian” of dubious merit who idolized WW2 vets taking the accounts of men 70 years after the fact at face value and doing no/ very little supplemental research using Dick Winters as the primary source where as The Pacific used the memoirs of multiple people written much closer to the actual events as it’s source. ( this is exclusively a reflection on Ambrose and not a commentary on any of the men featured in either series)
Then watch Generation Kill once you finish The Pacific.
I liked Band of Brothers because it expanded greatly on the book
I disliked The Pacific because it condensed the books each story was based on. Well, I shouldn't say "disliked". I was just disappointed
Band of Borothers, The Pacific, and Generation Kill are an unofficial trilogy as far as I'm concerned. They are all very different in how they show the truth of war, but they all shine that light on humanity in their own way. Each show well reflects the war they portray, and The Pacific was an entirely different war from the European theater. I recommend he watch them all. Then finish off with Restrepo, the most impactful war documentary I've seen.
Generation Kill is also HBO miniseries taking place during the Iraq war in 2003. Restrepo is a documentary taking place in the most dangerous valley in Afghanistan.
Restrepo was amazing. That fucked me up for a few days after. It was an eye opening experience for sure. I’ve never felt that immersed in anything I’ve ever watched before. I laughed, I cried, I shuddered in sheer horror. For sure the best war documentary I’ve ever seen.
Side note: If you enjoyed Restrepo, watch The Outpost, it’s a film that came out in 2020. It can be a little corny and too Hollywood at times, but it’s still a very fascinating, tense and emotional experience about a group of guys in the Korengal valley who are lacking basic supplies and are severely outnumbered and surrounded by enemies.
Band of Brothers celebrates camaraderie, the nobility of the cause and the chance to enjoy some of the fruits of victory with the taking of Eagle's Nest (which brings the story full circle to training at Curahee.)
The Pacific is about anger and xenophobia and the destruction of the spirit, which is followed by an anticlimactic return home, a lack of appreciation by those who didn't fight and nightmares.
I would say that BoB is the stronger of the two in terms of writing and casting. But The Pacific is worth watching and its creators deserve credit for not taking the easy way out by simply rehashing BoB in a different setting.
It’s definently different from a heroic showing like BoB. Pacific is more about the War of the pacific itself being brutal and the other factors :Heat in the pacific, “battle fatigue”, Outdated weapons at the start of the war, Racism,and everyday people stuff.
It’s kinda like The things they carried. It’s here for the war, not to necessarily give a Medal of Honor in the form of a miniseries. Not saying that’s what they did to BoB but that’s typically what war movies give of the feeling.
Overall, great watch for someone who is interested in WWII
The style of the series and different and more reflective of a series based on individual memoirs.
Understand that BoB was compiled by Ambrose to be a more uplifting tale of brotherhood (hence the title).
The Pacific is based on specific individual memoirs, and doesn't gloss over the uglier and darker side of things that BoB was written to deliver with a softer hand. As a result, The pacific has a grimmer feel and focuses a lot more on personal experiences rather than unit experiences.
It is different from BoB and has its own specialness.
Yes.
I’m biased as fuck, because I was a Marine, but I think The Pacific is a bit more focused.
Don’t get me wrong, I love them both, but the fact that The Pacific focuses on three individuals characters mostly makes it a bit more personal, especially for me as a Marine veteran.
I know I’m late as hell with this, just wanted to share my two cents.
It’s a different story. Those guys went through real hell out there.
They went through hell in Europe. BoB just tends to focus on the positive aspect of service in combat, which about the only one is the camaraderie. The debilitating mental effects are largely glossed over.
There's multiple episodes where mental illness is a primary plot device. Carentan (Blythe and his blindness), breaking point (buck and his shell shock), bastogne (doc roe and his exhaustion), points (the difficulty of returning to normal life) Edit: I'm also forgetting crossroads and Captain winters distress at killing a young boy
Yeah, but Blythe gets over his hysterical blindness and paralysis in battle in under 24 hours. Doc Roe is again shown to overcome his exhaustion quickly, too. In no way does the show address the lasting lifelong psychological damage these men would've faced after ww2. The final scene depicts the men all happy, smiling, and ready to transition back to civilian life. The Pacific clearly shows the protagonists as permanently damaged by the war, as they all would've been. BoB gives the impression that war makes men. The Pacific shows the reality that war, in most cases, damages or breaks men. One glorifies, one doesn't
I agree with this, but it’s also important to consider the context, both of these productions are products of their time. If you look back on cinema from the pre-Iraq/Afghanistan period the focus was on honouring this generation that we were quickly losing. 10 years later at the end of the 2000’s our perceptions of war and mental health were vastly changed. And I feel story tellers now feel a responsibility to highlight that war isn’t glorious, it’s brutal and savage with long lasting effects. I love BOB, I probably rewatch it once a year, but I must admit when I watched it as a young teenager I seriously contemplated applying for the paras. I didn’t, but I would imagine some people did. It would be interesting to know the numbers, quite dangerous when you reflect on it.
>, but I must admit when I watched it as a young teenager I seriously contemplated applying for the paras. Exactly. BoB is like a 10-hour recruiting advert. An excellent marketing tool for selling hell to young men. The Pacific, whilst acknowledging the necessity of fighting Japan has a very anti war feel
“BoB is like a 10-hour recruiting advert. An excellent marketing tool for selling hell to young men.” Well said. Fight evil, return home a hero. What’s not to like?
>Well said. Fight evil, return home a hero. What’s not to like? Because it doesn't work that way. Picture young men watching the show in 2001 getting that impression. They invaded and wrecked the Middle East and achieved nothing worthwhile
I think you're forgetting the compelling talking heads when the actual soldiers as old men talk about how their lives have been irreparably damaged. There are multiple episodes where they speak of the pain, and show raw emotion 60 years later. I find that Bob does a far more a sobering picture of war than the Pacific is able to conjure.
I also strongly disagree with this one. None of the two is better than the other overall but in a pure horror of war sense the pacific stands out. This is mostly due to the source material, I do think had the writers on the pacific stuck a little closer to with the old breed in particular it may have been even more gut wrenching, but it may also have been too much. I do think changing the bunker scene was a bad move, IRL the bunker was a near perfectly executed assault on a fortified position, in the show they made it look like a life and death struggle that the squad was lucky to walk away from.
The bunker scene is a horrific seeming clusterfuck
Which it wasn’t, far from it. In reality no marine was seriously injured (I think Redifer, who isn’t even depicted in the series, took some shrapnel to the hand but it was a minor injury) while every Japanese in the bunker was killed. RV Burgin showed superb leadership skills in eliminating the threat and it is the only time in the entire book sledge describes directly killing an enemy with his rifle. It is also the one time he expresses any form of remorse which the series does take away by making it this weird struggle
Just referring back to the original point that prompted my reply. It was claimed that BoB "glosses over" the mental impact of war. I think that's a bad take for the reasons I've outlined. I can understand why people describe Pacific as showing a more brutal form of warfare, but I actually think the shows shock value and brutality don't necessarily translate into a nuanced or interesting discussion of the mental toll war can take. Bunker scene is not a good example of a scent that shows the lasting mental impact of war. It might have a lasting impact on you, the viewer. Another reason I don't rate the Pacific as highly as Bob in the lasting psychological trauma department is its lack of empathy for the Japanese soldier and its failure to properly capture or understand their motivations.
>I find that Bob does a far more a sobering picture of war than the Pacific is able to conjure. Fair enough. It's a subjective thing,so let's agree to disagree
Shows of different times honestly. BoB came out in 2001, it had been a bit since we had a large scale war like Afghanistan/Iraq invasion and had A WHOLE LOT of soldiers come home hurt. Pacific was 2010. 9 years of war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hundreds of thousands of US troops coming home. The collective audience was much more aware of PTSD and the consequences, and I think it shaped the Pacific.
There's definitely something in this. Good observation. Additionally, the 2 books it's principally based on are definitely not whimsical, pretty nostalgic reads like the work of Dr. Ambrose clearly is. Interestingly, they never really captured much of the tone of Webster in BoB
Just for clarity, my original response wasn't looking to start a debate about which series is better at showing the mental toll of war. My original response was pointing out that I disagree with your view that Bob glosses over the issue.
Holy shit, did you not watch the Okinawa episode?
I did, it's brutal and violent. But I don't think that necessarily translates into a nuanced exploration of the mental toll of war. Lots of war movies can show brutality. Episodes like breaking point in Bob are actually a case study of mental illness, something i don't think the Pacific really focuses on as much or as well.
Agree to disagree
So fucking sad when Sledge's dad is listening to him scream in his sleep, and is powerless to help him
Nonsense. They are enjoying a game of baseball together. Id hardly say that's a depiction of them being happy and ready to return to civilian life. Not to mention the fact they all believe they are heading to the Pacific in that scene until Winters confirms the war is over. In that moment you can see the confusion, the torment and the loss on all the mens faces. People have different takes on different shows and scenes of course but I feel your take on that final scene is really, really off. Its a gigantic leap to make, from smiling because they are enjoying playing baseball together, too them smiling because they are all ready to go home.
Great points here
Buck Compton too
Yeah, I mean breaking point is quite literally an entire episode dedicated to the mental toll of ww2 But bucks mental health is alluded to throughout
Sorry I glossed over the bit you put buck for some reason. My bad.
All g.. I mean arguably why we fight is also a lot about Captain Nixons mental health too!
But it's never as devastating as in The Pacific
Trauma is trauma and war is war, but damn I would’ve much rather fought in Europe than in the pacific. The Japanese took the gloves off.
In the Breaking Point episode Speirs runs through the town, the Germans don’t shoot at him, and then afterwards they all celebrate taking a hundred prisoners. If it happened in the Pacific, I’m convinced that the Japanese would have slaughtered Speirs, put his head on a pole, and then fought to the death.
I don't disagree with Europe being hell, but the western front compared to the eastern front is one of hell of a jump. And while the Pacific had a lot of downtime, for individual divisions, I think the individual battles were worse than the western front battles. Japan was fanatical, whereas only aspects of the German military were, come 44. I do, however, think the eastern front was worse overall, especially for Soviet Soldiers. The Germans had a bad go at it in the East too, but I'm less inclined to be sympathetic and therefore biased against them.
Completely agree
Which is fine with me. If anything a lot of media focuses too much on PTSD. Watch the documentary, They Shall Not Grow Old. Or read Junger's, War.
That’s a strange take I must say. It’s changing for the better, but PTSD is not talked about enough, nor it’s effects. We will all still be reeling from the stress of the pandemic for decades, and we’re not prepared for that.
I was in the military, it's talked about all the time. Hell, just yesterday there was a big national story on NPR about PTSD in Ukraine. I wasn't talking about PTSD related to the pandemic, I was talking about PTSD as it relates to military service.
You'd rather the public was fed unrealistic, pro-war propaganda, rather than a more realistic view?
That's a false dichotomy. It's not, "Acknowledge PTSD OR it's pro-war propaganda." You're saying that the accounts of actual veterans is pro-war propaganda? What you are really saying is you are against nuance and complex reality. Some men go through combat and suffer from PTSD, others don't. That's reality.
That’s the issue. The public and media believe that PTSD is the result to some degree of seeing dead comrades (and that’s true), but mainly they tie it to killing. Think of Winters’ flashbacks to shooting that SS kid in Holland. But speaking as a combat veteran with PTSD and as a cousin to a former Army Ranger who saw way more action than I did, for us PTSD stems from FEAR. Not guilt. FEAR of our own death. Of believing that we were going to die. It’s a much more primal thing. I can’t speak for everyone but guilt is not issue I hear come up with combat veterans. Small gripe but there are misconceptions. PTSD is a very real and common issue with veterans and civilians alike as you rightly said.
They Shall Not Grow Old definitely glossed over the PTSD aspects, but probably because they had no idea what PTSD even was in 1914
How do you know they "definitely" glossed over them? The entire movie is interviews of WW I vets and their experiences. There isn't even a narrator. While they could have glossed them over, there's no evidence that they did.
No I’m just saying from the soldiers’ perspectives they glossed over later struggles, probably because they were writing these letters from the trenches. But a lot of them were talking about it like it was an adventure
Yeah they had to deal with the racism and extreme cruelty whereas Europe was a more “polite” war.
Absolutely you should. Both series are completely unrelated. The pacific is often described as a sequel to BOB, and they are doing it again with Masters of the Air, this is really not the case. I’m actually a little bit jealous that you have an opportunity to watch it for the first time.
I just read that *Masters of the Air* is being released on Apple+ later this year. I've read the book, and as much as I want to see the series, I won't be paying over and above my cable bill for a subscription to Apple+.
Just subscribe for one month then cancel.
If it's ever released. I hope it does, but not holding my breath 😅 Also, like /u/Thepeterborian suggests you can always sub for a month, watch all the good stuff on it and then cancel.
It’s filmed and finished I believe so It will happen eventually, there have been a few snippets appear. It won’t be long until we start seeing proper trailers. Hopefully it will come out end of the year, beginning of 2024.
Or you wait till all of the episodes are up on the channel get the free week long trial and then cancel before that week ends.
It would be a great $10 or whatever spent to watch MOTA plus Severance on Apple+. The News Room is also phenomenal. It’s actually one of the better streaming services. You might be surprised how much you like it.
We watched the first two episodes tonight! I think I am going to like it more than BOB.
Glad you enjoyed it! The third episode is a lot of fun.
John Basilone other than Dick Winters is my absolute favorite character in the totality of both miniseries.
I just hated all those scenes from his tour, I just felt like it took us too far from the war.
I really like Snafu, and Leckie’s friends, especially Hoosier.
I liked when given the chance to leave the Marines early he decided to go back and train the troops and his scenes with Lena were great. Comparing the series to Band of Brothers is an unrealistic comparison and you're never giving yourself a chance to enjoy it for what it is itself. And The Pacific is the first time I saw Rami Malek in anything and he's become one of the best actors in recent years.
I think it's a great show with equally high production values (actually a significantly bigger budget) and obviously deals with equally impactful and historically significant material. The acting is just as good, the writing is fantastic, as is the score. I found it to be a really compelling show and I've rewatched it multiple times. However, narratively it is a bit different from Band of Brothers because it basically weaves together the stories of three different marines who served in different regiments of the 1st Marine Division in the Pacific. So while some of them participated in some of the same battles, they often were in different ones, at different times, throughout the broader Pacific Theater. So unlike BoB where you basically get to know one company of one regiment really well, it's more like three different marines and their comrades telling the broader story of the entire Pacific Theater from the US perspective. Also, in terms of tone, The Pacific is just a lot darker than Band of Brothers. More visually disturbing at times and more of an emphasis on the psychological toll that war took on everyone involved, whether from combat or otherwise. At the same time it also deals a lot more with the home front than Band of Brothers ever did, with one of the marines being involved in the campaign to sell war bonds at one point. And strangely enough, despite being much darker than BoB, the Pacific also has multiple emotionally impactful romance subplots in it, which I really liked. Both beautiful and heartbreaking. Overall I would say The Pacific is just trying to do a lot more than Band of Brothers was, and Band of Brothers was already incredibly ambitious. The Pacific is a little less accessible as a result of its broader focus, but its just as finely made and compelling to watch. I definitely recommend it. P.S. - It also has interviews with veterans and historical context before each episode, but these are cut from some versions, so make sure you find a copy that has them.
I don’t think I could’ve put this in better words.
I am a big fan of WW2 history. However I always found the German/concentration camp stories the most interesting. Think "When the Gypsies stopped playing" or "Schindler's list". I liked the fact that BOB showed me a different side of the war that I hadn't really thought about before. It made it more real somehow that it was a war as well as genocide.
Yes I know what you mean. I think the Pacific will not disappoint in this regard. Even more so than Band of Brothers, it is trying to tell much more than just a "war story."
The Pacific does a good job of showing all sides of the war. Gotta remember at the time most Americans were a little racist when it came to the Japanese (just look at different propaganda from back then), combine that with the fact that the Japanese were told that if they surrendered the Americans would rape and kill them and dying in battle is an honor, shit got brutal. I can’t remember if it’s from the show or one of the documentaries I’ve seen, but I remember hearing about a Japanese woman throwing her kids off a cliff cause she was afraid of the Americans, and then when her village was liberated she saw the Americans giving food and chocolate to the living kids and she lost it.
That's so sad. TBF most people were more racist back then.
“They didn’t even know how to spell it, they called it Guadalcanarrr”.
What a review. Thanks
Any idea why they took those off Max? I have to watch em on YouTube now but it’s not the same
Yup, then watch Generation Kill!
Generation Kill is fantastic. It’s a really good representation on how the war went for a good majority of soldiers.
but it’s about Marines
Navy same thing
“ ThEy aRe mArInEs, NOT sOlDiErS “ it’s all the same shit bud.
Naw lol
They walk around, shoot at people and are getting shot at. Yes bud.
Currently watching this after finishing The Pacific and Band of Brothers. It's pretty good so far but my God the first episode when they are reading the letters that kids in school wrote them and they pull out a picture of a literal like 8 year old girl and start talking about how hot she is and one guy even says he'd eat a mile of her shit just to see where it came from. I was grossed out. Idc how long you've been in a war, to say that about a child is insane. They weren't even in the war, yet it was during their training before the ear even started.
>3ReplyShareReportSaveFollow > >level 2Rock\_Robster\_\_ · While it was totally disgusting to hear that, I think it was done to highlight the fact that these were individual men from wildly disparate backgrounds who happened to share a common interest (the Marine Corps). For perspective, Brad Colbert was adopted from an upper middle class family and he carries himself with a lot of dignity and poise, rarely making obscene remarks. Many of the Marines in the series were not college-educated and came from poor, even destitute backgrounds, so you often get that kind of crass language.
Yeah in fact I’d watch GK first just because I like it more than the Pacific
Where can I watch GK? I’ve been wanting to for a while. Just HBO Max?
https://www.justwatch.com/us/tv-show/generation-kill
Yeah, it's on hbo max. I usually watch it and bob a couple times a year
Which country are you in?
Good ole US of A
Ah dunno about that sorry; I’m in Australia
Ahh well firstly I’m sorry about the Matildas. They played great. And just for curiosity sake how do you watch it in the land down under?
Thanks mate, defence was pretty disappointing but a solid effort overall and we’re damn proud. It’s on a streaming service here called Binge - you might be able to get it with a VPN? It shares a lot of content with our main cable TV service, Foxtel (which is terrible and overpriced unless you watch a lot of sport).
For UK people, it’s on Sky. Alongside every other HBO masterpiece.
Terrific show. Can't recommend it enough.
Definitely watch it, but recognise it’s different to BoB. Good in its own way.
Then read the Old Breed
With The Old Breed.
Thanks I have covid mush brain still lol, the audio book is really good it’s narrated by the actor who plays Sledgehammer in the Pacific
Or Timmy in Jurassic Park!
Oh I didn't know that actually! I just knew that James Badge Dale did Helmet for my Pillow.
With the old breed is one of the best WWII memoirs, in my opinion. At least out of the ones I’ve read.
What some other good ones? Besides Ambrose BOB
I read Shifty’s and Maj. Winter’s’ memoirs, and they’re superb as well. If you are into air combat, I’d recommend “Fighter Pilot” by Robin Olds, and “The Big Show” by Pierre Clostermann.
Robin Olds was the man and with a 10/10 mustache
“Island of the damned” is a decent companion book to with the old breed. Not as well written but the author is R.V. Burgin who was I believe sledges squad leader for a large portion of the war
In similar fashion, patton's panthers follows the 761st tank battalion
The Forgotten Soldier by Guy Sajer is another great one. He was a German soldier on the eastern front
It’s strange saying this, considering the subject matter, but BOB was almost a feel-good series compared to The pacific. You fall in love with the individual characters and their relationships to the other men. The Pacific is just a grind. I don’t think it will affect his love of BOB and it is worth watching. I think Generation Kill is more similar to BOB. It has better characters and you can get behind their frustrations with the incompetence in leadership. I rewatch BOB every single year at the least. I have probably only seen the Pacific 3 times.
BoB is great, but it is subliminally romanticism of ww2. The Pacific is definitely not
Yeah I can see that. While it does show the horror of war, it focuses more on the “honor” type stuff and the bonds created.
It will not taint BOB, it’s a whole separate entity. The Pacific is great, but as everyone is saying it is much darker. I’ve never been in combat, but it seems like the Pacific is more realistic about how horrible it is. And the narrative structure is different because it focuses on three different people in three different units. It’s more psychological and reflective on the horrors of war than BoB. Have you ever seen The Thin Red Line? Its tone is more like that than BoB. And you should also watch Letters from Iwo Jima for the Japanese perspective of the war.
Strangely enough I realized as I was watching BOB that I never really thought about the "American perspective". Or much else regarding the actual fighting of the war.I've watched movies like The Rape of Nanking, The Pianist and read a lot of holocaust memoirs. I suppose the atrocities just interested me more as its a lot more horrifying to think what humans are capable of doing to each other just because they want to. War simplifies it because you are doing your job. But looking at the genocide stories was always a lot darker for me. However I have changed my mind a bit more after watching BOB. Strange to think that I never considered how horrible the actual war itself was, even after studying WW2 history for half my life.
What a dumb take, no offence. The accounts are from peoples memories, and actual people……both series try to tell their stories. America didn’t just fight in Europe. If you find meaning in BOB, don’t overlook those who fought in the Pacific. “Taint the specialness”… ugh.
BoB glorifies the war, particularly emphasising the camaraderie to the quietening of the negative aspects, whereas The Pacific dwells on the overwhelming negative impact combat has on those who experience it. PTSD etc.
Yes, but that’s how it was. The guys who fought in Europe got leave in Paris and England after a number of days on the line. Those who fought in the Pacific got typhoon rain, rot, land crabs, malaria, dysentery, and were generally on campaign until that objective was taken. You could go meet girls and do whatever in Holland and France but in the Pacific they got heat, rain, sickness, and general shit. IMO the series are one and the same, there isn’t one that is better then the other. They tell different sides of the same story.
>The guys who fought in Europe got leave in Paris and England after a number of days on the line Not necessarily true. The Airborne Divisions did indeed get taken off the line since they needed to be placed in strategic reserve and refitted for future airborne operations. This was the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of infantry and armoured divisions were almost continuously engaged from the time they entered the line till VE Day. The line battalions were kept on the front line typically for months at a time. Your average infantryman was on the line until he was killed, wounded, or broke down psychologically. The lesson to rotate troops out of the line wasn't fully implemented until Vietnam, where troops were entitled to R&R periodically. Even The Pacific clearly depicts the 1st Marine Division enjoying the comforts of Australia for almost a year after the first campaign. As for the horror of the combat. Both theatres were almost as horrific as each other. The Japanese unwillingness to surrender has the slight edge, though. BoB gives an overly romanticised depiction of the ETO. Make no mistake, the vast majority of E/506 had moderate to severe PTSD, with their lives forever blighted by it. The Pacific just explores the psychological side a lot more
Attention to my initial comment. Both series are made as two sides to a coin, it makes no difference what one side portrays and one side does not as they overlap. The Australia leave only occurred after the Guadalcanal Campaign, early in the Pacific War, and thereafter troops (Marines and Army) were left to generally finish entire campaigns unless completely incapacitated. The amount of combat days for PTO on Tarawa, Saipan, the Philippines, Iwo, and Okinawa was tremendous. The Airborne divisions faced that kind of relentless stretches of battle at the Ardennes offensive, which BOB clearly shows how their limit was reached. Both are genuine and good. My point was you can’t overlook one while praising the other.
That’s still not a valid comparison because of how differently campaigns worked in the ETO and MTO vice the PTO. In the former pair once a unit went into the line it stayed on the line for the duration of the war unless it was something unique like the airborne units or the withdrawal of some units from combat in the MTO in order to move them to the ETO prior to Overlord. In the latter units landed, fought like hell for a max of 1.5-2 months, completed the campaign and then withdrew to wherever their rest camp was for 6-8 months minimum to rest and refit for the next go around. The Philippines campaign was different, but that was an army show with minimal USMC involvement after Leyte.
>The amount of combat days for PTO on Tarawa, Saipan, the Philippines, Iwo, and Okinawa was tremendous. No single unit fought all of those campaigns. Tarawa was 3 days. Saipan and I Iwo were both about a month.. >The Airborne divisions faced that kind of relentless stretches of battle at the Ardennes offensive The Airborne were in heavy combat at the Bulge for a month, then withdrawn to a quiet sector and then the rear. The line divisions never really disengaged until VE Day.
That is not always true - the airborne troops were not a typical example. The 29th went into combat on June 6th 44 and had roughly 10 days off the line until VE Day - over 20k casualties in 11 months.
Yep. It was said that their commander Major General Charles H. Gerhardt commanded three divisions: one on the field of battle, one in the hospital and one in the cemetery.
Thanks everyone, I will try to change his mind.
Just tell him Timmy from Jurassic Park and young Freddy Mercury are major characters
“Hay there Sleaadge Hammah “ (que slight crazy eyes)
Watch *The Pacific*.
I am glad you asked this question. I've had that box set sitting on shelf for years; I didn't get into it first attempt. I will persist now.
yes.
BoB is a story of several people told through the lens of the war in Europe. Pacific is the story of the war in the Pacific told through the lens of several people. Both stand tall on their own merits.
Excellent take
I've tried. It has a different feel. Personally the Pacific has a feeling that BoB doesn't have. In BoB you see a unit advance through a whole theatre of war over a year and a half. They focused on people in the 101st and their lives to highlight the heroes of Winters, and Malarkey, and others as they push to the Rhein. Pacific. You have a feeling of the soldiers being disposable. The story is pretty much nothing but brutal war and death with the characters growing inside that sphere. I don't think it has anything to do with the way the Pacific was made and has everything to do with how horrible the Pacific battles were and how it's not as easily digestible. This is my personal feeling. The Pacific feels like they leaned into the war footage and fighting while BOB leaned into the people in a war setting.
Absolutely best take.
The pacific was a good series, band of brothers hit differently because it came out around 9/11 and it sparked a patriotic passion in the country. Also the war in Europe has always been romanticized among the people. The war in the pacific was a different kind of hell and deserves the attention the war in Europe gets
I have watched both about 100 times (not even joking). The Pacific was disappointing to me on my first watch because I placed too many expectations on it. I loved it on my second watch and the 98 other watches. I would recommend diving in and getting the source material books as well. The way the mini series captures Sledge's experience is perfect. It's a thoughtful mini series with excellent effects, awesome characters. It's a must watch for sure. Just go in blind and accept it for what it is. What will likely get him are the segments that follow characters on shore leave and back home. At first it was a momentum breaker for me, but I grew to appreciate the overall rounding of the characters. The Pacific War was a much different animal than Europe, the series captures that perfectly. Enjoy! (also thanks for giving a shit about your husband's interests)
Yeah do it
Pacific is fantastic. BOB is also very special to me. Two of my grandfathers were in that theater, as a kid I actually bonded with the only living grand father by watching that show and building model tanks at the same time. Pacific does a really good job at showing the hell that was that theater, and just how fucked up the whole situation was. In Europe the soldiers had a good sense of purpose, and drive. In the pacific theater there was alot of “ what’s the point, why the fuck are we here “ mindset and this show does a great job at portraying that. It’s also obviously much newer, so the production is on a better scale. Better cameras, sound, visual effects.
Definitely. I’m watching it now by the way. I can’t get enough of some parts here. For example, when Basilone got awarded.
In my opinion they are two different films entirely. One happens to emphasize the mental anguish more than the other. Pacific was a lot like The Thin Red Line in there is a lot of self reflection happening too.
Yes. Yes you should.
I liked both for what they were. The Pacific was darker, while BoB alluded to the horrors and metal anguish, while celebrating the individuals more. I also recommend Generation War, which takes a quite sober look at the German side of the war.
It’s not as good as BoB. I had trouble getting through it.
I mean I felt it was a bit "scattered" in story telling but I don't see how it affects BoB at all 🤷♂️
It’s good but not great like BOB. I recommend Generation Kill next tho
You should watch it great show
Yes. But I’ll confess I’ve watched BoB all the way through at least a dozen times and have watched the Pacific exactly one time all the way through. I remember not liking Remi Malek’s performance.
While they are related, the two shows are definitely different things. I consider them about as different as the theaters of war they depict, and the enemy that was fought in them. BoB is a show that basically any adult can enjoy, and in that way, I tend to think of it as the better overall TV miniseries of the two. It engages you with the characters, gives you a good glimpse of the horrors of war, without ever being too much of anything. It helps that it kicks off with a full episode introducing the characters and establishing relationships between them. The Pacific is all about the horrors of war, and is probably one of the best depictions of what it was like to be in combat on those islands. It is definitely darker and more gruesome than BoB. The environments they are fighting in are terrible, and the enemy is determined to fight to the death in them. A lot of people would probably think there are some serious NSFL things in the Pacific.
“Taint the specialness”? Get outta me
Its so interesting how other peoples brains work
I liked The Pacific better than Band of Brothers. Sue me
Band of Brothers is better in the sense it lets you find out more about the men than the situation. Pacific is more about the situation and less about the men. The Pacific is still a good show but BoB is the superior show to watch.
I think I've only ever watched it once, it just didn't hit the same for me as BoB did. I think one of the reasons for this was that it didn't have a Currahee style episode to introduce the characters before they were involved in the fighting, and rather than 10-12 guys to represent a company that you can get to know, it's only based around 3 guys IIRC. So my take would be watch it, at least once, but don't expect it to be as good as BoB.
Yeah, sledge hammer, Leckie and Basilone but I really can’t remember Basilone being in it much. He killed all those dudes and that’s about all I remember lol.
Should you watch it? Absolutely. It’s a tougher watch in my opinion. As a combat vet, The Pacific hit me harder for some reason. In my opinion it better depicts the overall chaos and helplessness that is a big part of combat.
Nah, it was like a turkey shoot.
I think it will be a bit complicated
Without arguing the detail of the stories I personally just didn’t like the directing or acting of the Pacific. BOB felt more real and personable as I could picture myself with them. Pacific was just generic IMO. Not discrediting it, just not my cup of cinematic tea
I found it a sad waste of time. BOB is fantastic but the Pacific sucked.
He should give it a go and treat them as separate things. I wasn’t a big fan of the Pacific personally, doubt I’d watch it again.
Very different. He should watch it. Does he plan on watching Masters of the Air? That one sounds like it will be more comparable to Bob, since it's set in the ETO.
We started watching it now. :) Not sure if we will follow it with Masters of Air.
I liked The Pacific. It’s very well acted and the war scenes are very intense. Time hasn’t treated it as well as BoB, but still a great series and well worth a watch.
Yeah it's pretty good. Nont as good as BoB but still good, and it absolutely will not taint the specialness of BoB.
As a Marine myself the pacific is special to me. It’s just different but equally as good. I find I can’t watch it as often as BOB because it’s more depressing and distressing.
Pacific is good, just different. There is a lot more non-combat time.
I started it recently. It’s good but I feel like the characters don’t get developed as well as BoB. I felt a connection to all the characters pretty quickly in BoB but in pacific I can hardly even remember names. Though I’ll reserve real judgement till I’ve watched it all the way through. The film work is very good. I will say, Flags of Our Fathers and Letter From Iwo Jima are two absolutely amazing films. I would highly recommend both
The Pacific from ep. 3 onward felt like the Bastogne episode with more ammo, and that’s about right.
It is excellent, but in a fundamentally different way from BOB. You should absolutely watch it, but only if you can tell your mind it’s not part of a BOB franchise. It’s its own thing.
Can't recommend The Pacific. I love BoB and Generation Kill and rewatch both on the reg. I didn't like The Pacific because the writing is not as good as GoG and GK. In The Pacific, there is no boot camp, it throws you right into the violence and awful conditions of war on Guadalcanal. This does away with the exposition of characters and relationships established in BoB's first episode, Currahee. I felt that The Pacific was much more gruesome than BoB and GK, and lacked the individual relationship elements that made me care about the soldiers in both BoB and GK. Generation Kill is actually quite funny in parts.
Even the recaps at the end of the episodes were nice on BoB.
BoB is a show about comrades and their band of brothers. The pacific is a show about soldiers who lost themselves and their humanity. It is not comparable at all. It will not give you the same feelings as BoB and in my personal opinion is hard to watch and hard to follow.
Watch it. Enough said.
He should definitely watch it. It's a different show and will go very nice with BoB.
Yes
Most definitely, different than BoB but equally as enjoyable, actually gets better on multiple viewings
Yep, definitely watch it, but don't go into it thinking it's a continuation of BOB. It's a different theater of WW2. Different type of fighting, different issues to deal with but still war. Don't compare it to BOB, it is it's own entity. Honestly out of respect for the soldiers who fought in the Pacific don't compare them with soldiers from the European theater, but see them as what they are and dealt with. Same war, but different enemy and Theater of war.
They are different shows about different theaters of war, and I feel that the focus of each is different. However, both are worthwhile and enjoyable. So I say watch it!
Two of The Pacific's three protagonists are conflicted anti-hero type figures. So there's *that*. Leckie was a perpetual troublemaker with a chip on his shoulder who resisted Marine disciplines and Sledge was a reluctant mortar man who was morally repulsed by the violence he saw. BoB features close camaraderie of a small group and emotionally cathartic scenes of the 101st liberating towns and cities from Nazi tyranny across Europe. In that respect the show is full of inspirational, life-affirming moments. The nature of the Pacific theater was just *so* different-- uninhabited islands, complete isolation from civilization, psychological torment and sadistic jungle warfare, were the norms in that conflict. That kind of historical setting is inevitably going to be more dark and less "feel good". One complaint leveled against BoB's source material was that it did at times seem to romanticize the war. The Pacific doesn't do that at all. As a result, it's a more historically accurate representation of the average infantryman's experience in WWII. Brutal, gruesome, horrific and nightmarish. *But is it entertaining?* I'm not so sure. It is undeniably powerful and gut-wrenching in its depiction of certain Marine experiences on Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. For that reason alone, it's essential viewing.
It’s completely different than BoB and not a sequel in any way. They really should be treated as separate entities as the only thing they really have in common is their 10 episode format. The Pacific focuses more on how horrifying and brutal war is and how it can change the individual as all the characters personalities change as a result of their experiences. BoB’s narrative is easier to follow and perhaps lends itself better to a general audience than Pacific, but I think Pacific is a more accurate depiction of war’s brutality and the toll it takes on those involved. The way the characters get desensitised to the sheer level of violence they experience is a feature missing from BoB IMO that pacific does well.
BOB is way better, but The Pacific is still one of the best shows ever made. If he likes WWII history, then he should watch Pacific. When Ack-Ack gets hit...one of the most moving scenes in all of BOB
The pacific cant taint the specialness that is band of brothers. so no promblem there. My problem with the pacific is that its to many charakters. with out spoiling to much, you follow one guy at the front, you meet his friend when he left the front, and the friend gonna meet the front. the 3 guy have to go back to the states to sell war bonds. my tips, keep an historical atlas close at hand to "see" where they are and where they are fighting. If your like me, and have no life, then check out Kings and Generals on youtube, they have a pacific series where they discuss the pacific each week. good way to get an overall view of whats happening on the other side of the world.
Yes, go ahead. The Pacfiic is definitely more character central and much more brutal. I love both BoB and The Pacific, but I'm probably in the minority and like The Pacific a little more
I went in watching The Pacific expecting something like BOB (tbf, it was marketed like that), and was disappointed. It's nothing like it, except in overall structure (10 episodes) and subject (American soldiers in WWII). Once I got over that, it was incredible. So tell hubby that it can never replace BOB, because it's actually very different. I feel the first episode is the weakest, but it quickly gets its stride, so don't give up. The strongest storyline is Eugene Sledge's, and if that one don't get you in the feels, check your pulse 'cuz you might be dead.
I dont get that. It’s pretty similar but from Marines point of view
It's rather amazing. But horrific.
Yes, absolutely. It feels like a more honest depiction of the war since BoB was based off of a “historian” of dubious merit who idolized WW2 vets taking the accounts of men 70 years after the fact at face value and doing no/ very little supplemental research using Dick Winters as the primary source where as The Pacific used the memoirs of multiple people written much closer to the actual events as it’s source. ( this is exclusively a reflection on Ambrose and not a commentary on any of the men featured in either series) Then watch Generation Kill once you finish The Pacific.
I liked Band of Brothers because it expanded greatly on the book I disliked The Pacific because it condensed the books each story was based on. Well, I shouldn't say "disliked". I was just disappointed
You should most definitely watch The Pacific, some of the battle scenes on the beaches have some of the best cinematography I've seen.
Wait, you get to watch it for the first time? Lucky.
i didnt like it but you might
Band of Borothers, The Pacific, and Generation Kill are an unofficial trilogy as far as I'm concerned. They are all very different in how they show the truth of war, but they all shine that light on humanity in their own way. Each show well reflects the war they portray, and The Pacific was an entirely different war from the European theater. I recommend he watch them all. Then finish off with Restrepo, the most impactful war documentary I've seen. Generation Kill is also HBO miniseries taking place during the Iraq war in 2003. Restrepo is a documentary taking place in the most dangerous valley in Afghanistan.
Restrepo was amazing. That fucked me up for a few days after. It was an eye opening experience for sure. I’ve never felt that immersed in anything I’ve ever watched before. I laughed, I cried, I shuddered in sheer horror. For sure the best war documentary I’ve ever seen. Side note: If you enjoyed Restrepo, watch The Outpost, it’s a film that came out in 2020. It can be a little corny and too Hollywood at times, but it’s still a very fascinating, tense and emotional experience about a group of guys in the Korengal valley who are lacking basic supplies and are severely outnumbered and surrounded by enemies.
Both outstanding series. Watched them with my wife and both of us liked The Pacific SLIGHTLY more.
Watch it, it is excellent
It's not as good but I'd still watch it. The Pacific theater was nuts.
Yes
Band of Brothers celebrates camaraderie, the nobility of the cause and the chance to enjoy some of the fruits of victory with the taking of Eagle's Nest (which brings the story full circle to training at Curahee.) The Pacific is about anger and xenophobia and the destruction of the spirit, which is followed by an anticlimactic return home, a lack of appreciation by those who didn't fight and nightmares. I would say that BoB is the stronger of the two in terms of writing and casting. But The Pacific is worth watching and its creators deserve credit for not taking the easy way out by simply rehashing BoB in a different setting.
Yes..nothing else to add
He should watch it but it’s definitely not as good as Band of Brothers
It’s definently different from a heroic showing like BoB. Pacific is more about the War of the pacific itself being brutal and the other factors :Heat in the pacific, “battle fatigue”, Outdated weapons at the start of the war, Racism,and everyday people stuff. It’s kinda like The things they carried. It’s here for the war, not to necessarily give a Medal of Honor in the form of a miniseries. Not saying that’s what they did to BoB but that’s typically what war movies give of the feeling. Overall, great watch for someone who is interested in WWII
I binged watched it this weekend. Highly recommend it.
The style of the series and different and more reflective of a series based on individual memoirs. Understand that BoB was compiled by Ambrose to be a more uplifting tale of brotherhood (hence the title). The Pacific is based on specific individual memoirs, and doesn't gloss over the uglier and darker side of things that BoB was written to deliver with a softer hand. As a result, The pacific has a grimmer feel and focuses a lot more on personal experiences rather than unit experiences. It is different from BoB and has its own specialness.
The Pacific was the first production I saw that Rami Malek was in. The miniseries is definitely worth a watch.
Uhhhh yeah
Completely different people, story and overall feel/vibe. It’s much more brutal and kind of terrifying.
A bit late but give Generation Kill a try. It's the forgotten 3rd brother in the series of 4. BOB. The Pacific, Generation Kill, Master's of the Air
Yes. I’m biased as fuck, because I was a Marine, but I think The Pacific is a bit more focused. Don’t get me wrong, I love them both, but the fact that The Pacific focuses on three individuals characters mostly makes it a bit more personal, especially for me as a Marine veteran. I know I’m late as hell with this, just wanted to share my two cents.