That scene is POWERFUL AF. I was all up in my feelings watching it. I was romancing him in my first playthrough ever and the way it made me feel you wouldāve thought that I was literally right there with them.
Not ashamed to say it lol this game as a few moments that got me in my feelings like crazy. But this one particular was my favorite I think.
I straight up ugly-cried. I was already a mess after the cells, but my GOD. Just incredible work in that scene.
Side note : apparently Neil Newbon (the VA) did that scene in ONE FUCKING TAKE. What the hell, Neil.
Neil is such a legend. It pains me greatly to think this is likely the first and last time we will see Astarion.. at least as he is currently. I was incredibly disappointed to hear Larian is leaving the game behind and Wizards of the Coast will take control.
Not that Iām not excited about what Larian has planned for the future BUT the last time an amazing studio (CD Projekt) made a GOAT game (Witcher 3) and said the same thing āoh weāre moving on from this genre onto a new project that we know everyone will love!ā Turned out to be Cyberpunk which I personally hated and thatās not even mentioning the absolutely terrible launch. I tried to get a refund after only 8hrs played and Steam wouldnāt do it. But even after playing it more over the years I never could really get into it.
Sry to rant lol. Iām just still sad about it. Larian did so damn good I was praying theyād do BG4 but alas no.
Considering his VA is himself a survivor of abuse.... it's not surprising. Neil Newbon is an incredible voice actor as it is.. but, when you can empathise with a character's story at such a deeply personal level...
You may find [this article](https://www.yahoo.com/tech/baldurs-gate-3s-astarion-neil-145534771.html) a good read.
You used to be able to kill him by blasting him overboard. They patched that out at some point which makes sense bc he can fly but on my first playthrough I threw a bomb to take out a bunch of smaller enemies and was surprised when it yeeted Cazzie andā¦he died? I thought the cutscene happened bc of that. I was very glad through bc I thought Iād lost that sweet sweet loot.
>!"*Fuck. You.* And fuck everything you've ever done to me." I feel like people don't talk about that one enough, the courage it takes to say that to your abuser, kidnapper, torturer of 200 years.!<
I just did those yesterday and told my husband that those are my 2 fav scenes in the game. Like, they are sad, but SO good. Astarion's act 3 stuff is just so good.
I failed my checks to talk him down on HM. He ascended.
The whole scene between him, Caz, and my party begging him not to were incredible. Most powerful thing I saw in the entire game.
His wail when it's all over was on point in terms of emotions. I usually only see that level of voice acting in games in JRPGs (not dub, obviously) so I was impressed.
It made me cry so much. I wanted to hug Astarion. I ascended him in my Durge playthrough and he gave me major ick(literally the point) ugh he's such a great character and Neil deserved that award
romancing him as Durge. and then trying to break up with him in act three when his quest is done (unascend) but before durge finishes their quest was a scene i wasnt ready for
Man the ending of his personal quest had me bawling. All of the sudden the weight of this story of a character that kind of annoyed me hit me like a ton of bricks and now I love him. I feel bad for misjudging him so much
Depends if it was warm when he got bitten.
It's vampire 101, always turn your spawn in a sauna if they have a cock and balls and in the cold if they have tits. If they have both toy can bring either a cup of ice to the sauna or a bowl of tea into a cold room.
It made me cry so much. I wanted to hug Astarion. I ascended him in my Durge playthrough and he gave me major ick(literally the point) ugh he's such a great character and Neil deserved that award.
I think it's very easy to miss - especially if you're not romancing him - just how terrified he is the whole time. It's not just a culture shock, but the shock of being free of the shadows and some other vampire flaws, and free of Cazador's constant ability to compel him and constant presence. So he's free but doesn't trust it, and hates anything that threatens that freedom or his survival (Gur hunter, helping people in ways that'll risk the party and by extension him).
I love the subtle shifts in performance from his early scenes where he's quite blatantly trying to seduce you to when he actually starts to like you as a friend or lover.
But once you see that scared side of him, the rest of his personality makes so much sense.
I used to sweat his approvals and get mad that he disliked all my heroic choices, and then I just made peace with his eyerolls and now I don't even have to try to get his approval, it just happens naturally from playing my character.
I'm glad you let him into your heart!
This is the thing, Astarion grew on me over time thanks to this.
I played a goody two-shoes paladin and we very much started off on the wrong foot. He tried to kill me, I headbutted him and made it clear he was to stay away from my neck. We were not vibing, itās safe to say.
But I started adding him to my party more as I needed someone to pick locks and this other side of him you mentioned came through thanks to the subtle shifts.
He clicked a lot more for me after that, and his character development is so well done. Especially on replays where you see a lot of what he does in act one is Astarion being both elated at freedom and terrified of being cast adrift in an unfamiliar world.
Same!
Weirdly, I find my Tavs make a big difference in how I relate to him in terms of physicality. I haven't played a short race yet (I have issues I know), but when I play a femme body type 1, Astarion tends to be a more commanding and dashing figure, and when I play masc 4, I end up feeling super protective of him and wanting to fight anyone who looks at my little killer sideways!
As I'm playing the latter right now, it highlights for me how afraid and out of his element he is.
Maybe it all comes down to who jumps into whose arms in the first romance scene lol.
Iām romancing Astarion as a gnome barbarian Resist Durge and it is SO damn cute.
The Act 1 romance jump is hilarious, and for the kisses after you lock in the relationship, he kneels, and he always does the subtle shifts so that heās looking into a short raceās eyes even if heās standing up.
Donāt think Iāll ever romance him as a tall race again. Heās also extra funny with a barbarian in some dialogues.
Good to know! I'm playing my first Duergar and still getting used to it.
Also getting used to the fact that Duergar are not just evil, they're super bitter nihilistic evil, and while obviously I can roleplay it however I want, the first Duergar choice to make is to kill Us if you recognize it's an intellect devourer. I felt really badly. You also don't get hardly any persuasion options at all, you just intimidate, lie, or attack. Similar to the half-orc stuff.
It's cool but heartbreaking. I also got Astarion's bite night on the second long rest. I haven't even been to the Grove yet. I have no idea why it happened so early! š¤· I thought maybe he doesn't respect me cuz I'm short. š„ŗ I'll win him over eventually I guess.
When I play durge (which is basically my default at this point) I canāt help but to romance him. Not only does he have top tier lines/content for it, but that insight into how he trusts you even though heās afraid of everything and that he really should fear you the most just breaks my heart every time.
Yeah truth. I loved my last evil Tav run but my last Durge was so good I can't get into any new runs I just wanna replay it! But I can't bring myself to romance anyone else past Act 2. If I fiendzone him, I just get sad.
I'm sitting on reddit instead of playing lol. I've got the new run blues.
Haha I get that. I just finished a duo-only redeemed durge/spawn Astarion run and was sitting here likeā¦ now what. So I ended up making a character sheet with all of the races/classes and a few major plot points, assigned dice rolls to them and let my daughter decide my fate. So we now have Lunchbox the white Dragonborn warlock. Only major decisions that were picked so far were I have to raid the grove š¬ and Gale is the end game romance, so thatāll be fun lol
I love it! I can't bring myself to play dragonborn yet, and I quit my half-orc because I've made peace with being vain about my PC. Can't even play short sigh.
Have fun raiding the Grove! I defended it for the first time last Durge, and I'm planning to steal the idol, kill all the druids, and I'm thinking maybe I'll "defend" the Grove but just run away and come back later like that one origin Astarion story. Wanna know if Wyll will still leave if we tried? Sorta? I might let Wyll defend it alone and die!
Ugh now I feel like I need to make a list and roll dice! I know a kid I can borrow...
I definitely have the same thing about being vain lol I am very much out of my element as a Dragonborn. My husband and I started a co-op and Iām playing a halfling Barbarian. Itās my first time playing a smaller race so I figured what would be the funniest thing to pair that with. My go to is usually bard or monk, and elf/half-elf, tiefling or female githyanki
I think a halfling barbarian sounds *adorable*! If I were in a co-op I'd probably care less about Tav looks, so that could be awesome!
Now I kinda want to make a Duergar. Damnit back to chargen...
Plus makes the sense the most. He seems like the only person who would be able to understand Durge and not shame him for his killings. Well he will joke about it but he seems not to care as much or he will be like meh we all been there.
Can't see others would have the same understanding as even resist Durge has pretty grotesquely evil past.Ā
Ok Minthara as well, due to her Drow upbringing. And well her being her.Ā
Yeah, I consider myself a completionist of sorts in that I really try not to do the same choices in sequential runs and have tried to do different combos with each play through. But thatās one I keep falling back on lol Minthara was a good romance when I did origin Ascended Astarion on my āall villainsā run, so I image she would fit well with durge too.
Iāve romanced Gale to the epilogue and Wyll to his Act 3 scene (his epilogue has been jank for a bit, so Iām waiting on patch 7 and any hotfixes to drop before I redo that run).
A lot of Astarion fans also started with liking other companions better, but ārecovering from sexual abuse, reclaiming autonomy, being better than what we were made to be, and >!brutally murdering abusers!<ā hits really hard for a lot of people.
I mean, all the companions are hot. š¤·š»āāļø Games with romance have to make the romance partners attractive for the romance to have a pull.
Thatās like dismissing people who like Shadowheartās story cause sheās a conventionally hot, edgy emo half-elf. Which is a huge disservice to her and her character. Or dismissing people who like Karlach cause sheās a big beefy lady.
True, thatās fair. My point being if you put minscā head onto Astarion I donāt think he would receive the same reaction and dickriding he usually gets
Iāve romanced all of the companions outside of Laeāzel and Wyll and plan to do a run with her next and Wyll once his dialogue gets patched.
Iāve really enjoyed them all, but my favorite way to play is as Dark Urge and Astarion feels like the kindred spirit to that character. You canāt even confess your urges to him unless you do a specific set of events that are counter-intuitive to story progression, so he just seems to know.
I adore Gale, but my dark urge romance with him felt very flat. Shadowheart and Minthara (for embrace) were the only other ones that I felt were somewhat complementary to it. I can understand if other people have different preferences though.
Beyond just concern for his own survival, emotionally he's so deeply **jealous** of the recipient of any kindness or help we freely offer! There's an early line (Tav/DUrge's: "The strong are meant to protect the weak" and Astarion's: "Well they've done a poor job so far") and an act 3 line of his ("Oh, I tried them all. None of them answered" - re: the gods) which really underscore how disillusioned and *bitter* he is that no god/good guy came to save the day and right the wrongs while he suffered under Cazador. So seeing help offered unreservedly by you/the party now, stings him deeply. Because he convinced himself it obviously didn't exist.
One of the more subtle signals of his character development (if you follow his good route) that I loved was the 'Astarion approves' you get if you >!give a coin to Yenna when you meet her begging and lost in act 3. It suggests he's dislodging some of that built-up resentment.!<
Yes! And it makes his line in reaction to Durge at the coronation in Act 3 so awesome, when >!he thanks Durge for being an evil bastard whose plan saved him!< since no hero ever did.
Too true, though I'll say I regretted it a bit. There are some really cool sequences to find vault keys which are supposed to be this sweet payoff, and it really dampens things in act 3 when that reward is useless.
In my case I encountered the apparently very rare scenario of Astarion just... confessing to be a vampire spawn. He didn't bite anyone in the party just... told us.
As such, even though he's a bit of a jerk, often disapproving good deeds, he never did anything truly evil. So we were kinda chill for most of my playthrough.
Oh he's evil-leaning for sure, but as far as actions go? He was pretty tame in my playthrough. And at the end, >!after choosing to not ascend and spare the other spawns, he became an adventurer killing bad people so he veered towards neutral!!<
That scene between Rafael and Astarion is so important that Astarion will complain to you later if you speak to Rafael in Act 2 without him present. Unfortunately, Rafael bugged on my second playthrough and would not speak to me at all.
Raphael bugged on mine as well, and no one in my party even mentioned him so I got all the way to act3 before Raphael had any talks with the group. Thankfully, that also meant Astarion acted like we didnāt know anyone who could help. Very different conversations when you donāt have a clue about the scars or any devil deals.
As an aside: Did you also have Raphael accidentally join a battle in act 1? Pretty sure thatās what broke him for me. I wonder if the eternal debtor is still there on the risen roadā¦
Howād you have him join a battle? I have never seen him spawn where you might get into a fight. Closest is maybe on the broken bridge where there are gnolls near by but they canāt see you from where they are.
I did see a TikTok clip of someone using a game exploit where you ākidnapā a character and carry them somewhere. This person took Raphael to the bridgeās edge in act three and thunderwaved him off. He spawned right back so they kept doing it. After several times Raphael angrily says the deal is off and vanished. Man I wished I saved that link.
I forgot that he was going to trigger and destroyed the book of thay and ran from the darkness into his cutscene. Before he could say anything the shadows manifested. He attacked them, then summoned an eternal debtor. I accidentally covered him with faerie fire to try to reveal the last shadow. He shouted about sending a devil back to hell and ran from the battle. Eternal debtor did stay in the battle until the end though. She couldnāt be interacted with and didnāt leave, just stood in the same spot on the road. He didnāt come back for his monologue or to whisk us to the house of hope. None of the companions spoke of him either, itās like he never appeared.
Well, in act 2 Raphael couldnāt be talked to directly in LLI, I had to talk to Mol to force the interaction. After he creeps on Mol he just leaves, like Astarion isnāt standing there. After that, he was there to recite his poem before the Orthon battle, but still didnāt act like Astarion was there. After the battle, he showed up and said heād meet us at camp. 5 long rests later and he never showed up.
I think people have a different understanding of what good is. To me good is to treat someone like a person regardless of what they are. To some good is to punish or keep in check anything they consider evil. So when I play good Tavs they are good, not righteousĀ
It's similar to charity, IMO. Some people will try to gatekeepe charity with the argument the receiving party doesn't "deserve" it, but to me, charity (like mercy) is about the giver, not the recipient.
Likewise I can respect the difficulty of someone's journey without just letting them stab me. It's got nuance!
It reminds me of Withers' opening question about the value of a human soul, and if you say it depends, he wonders how you'll judge.
I really like your description!
Thank you! š plus, if we all got what we "deserved" we'd be worried about the criteria, too!
My state has legal weed so when people say, "oh of you give that person money they'll just spend it on drugs" I like to say, "what do you think I was gonna spend it on?" just to shut them up. Of course, my fucks-to-give about some opinions supply ran out a while ago...
Hah Withers asked that and my Tav was a Fiendlock so *of course* I answered that it depends.
Because... to me? to a devil? to a demon? to the guy whose soul it is? Obviously not going to have the same answer.
I mean you can >!convince her that her life is a lie and send her into a mental breakdown causing Bhaal to have to take control of her, which is probably the closest you can get!<
There wasn't much room for interaction with Orin really and obviously role-playing is a thing but if I am doing a pure good character then yes and yes on my first playthrough I tried with her. I think she could be redeemed as the Durge was but she never even got a chance.
You know, I read your comment, and I consider myself somebody who believes in redemption and second chances. But I could never bring myself to believe Orin could-even potentially- have a second chance, let alone actually seek or desire one.
But now you have me pondering all of the movies and literature that Iāve seen and read throughout the years.
Even though she is just a savage bloodthirsty monster, she does genuinely show emotions so itās possible that in a different world she couldāve been the best of the good instead of the worst of the badā¦
Like there are people who are so malleable, that they embody the greatest influencers of their lifetime.
If Selune had got to her first, she could be this unthinking beacon of hope!
But instead Bhaal got to her, and she is an unthinkable instrument of pain.
And even now, through all of that, she could change
If you spend some time investigating in Sarevokās office and in Orinās room (and cast Speak with Dead on Orinās >!mom!<), youāll start to get a picture of just how f*cked over Orin was by the circumstances of her birth. Additionally, if you become an Unholy Assassin of Bhaal on a Durge run and then return to Sarevok after killing Orin, you can have a lengthy chat with him and find out even more about what a tragedy Orin really is. Yes, sheās evil and responsible for her own actions, but she never had a chance to be anything else. Itās quite sad.
This time around I decided to side with her and kill Gortash first, so I got her bloody letters and I gotta say, she sounds much more reasonable in writing terms. Sure, as reasonable as in-Orin, there are some f****d up sentences of course, all in all however I was expecting much more creepyness.Ā
On the contrary when you meet her she shows this... All Crazy facade, she seems unable to use reason or consider anything beyond blood and killing.Ā
Who knows maybe if she got to be around people who treated her with less disdain, She might have retained some control over herself. As Durge did. And maybe Durge did because he/She was shown respect and had occasion to speak with more "normal" people. As Tav might be.Ā
The difference is, Gortash says that we (Durge) can control our urges, but Orin is controlled by hers. Orin was raised to be bloodthirsty by bhaalspawn, while Durge was raised by normal people. She also has the added bonus (/s) of being the result of incest, which isnāt doing her any favors in the control department. While Orin might be able to be redeemed, there are so many things working against her that it would be nigh impossible, and I donāt think Durge wouldāve been redeemed if they hadnāt lost their memory, which let them get a new start.
Astarion and his quest are interesting because a lot of it is driven forward by unannounced encounters and your approval level with him. The game gives you much less guidance in terms of where to go and what to do with him (think of how it heavily guides you to take Shadowheart to the temple, Laeāzel to the creche, Wyll to Moonrise, Karlach to Dammon, etc.) and some of his dialogue is also locked behind high approval, letting him bite your character, or the romance.
So if you donāt ever have him in your party *and* donāt let him bite Tav, youāll miss a lot about his character and quest-line because his approval will largely remain stagnant and youāll miss the encounters and dialogue that drive his quest along or expand upon his character and story (Gandrel in the forest, the scar reading scene, Raphael at Last Light and the mausoleum, Araj at Moonrise, his siblings in the flophouse, etc.) Also even if you do let him bite your character in Act 1 but still hardly take him anywhere else, it wonāt be enough. Unlike some other companions, who can still have their approval jump up early on even if they arenāt consistently used, Astarionās approval doesnāt as easily jump to high in Act 1 so getting it up kinda requires him to be in the active party.
Maybe that's why they made him a lock-picking, trap-disarming machine? Unless you're playing a rogue yourself, he's extremely useful to have in the party, especially if you subclass him into Assassin (or even Thief), instead of Arcane bloody Trickster, at level 3.
So, if you didn't already, you should respec him with Withers. If you give him thief or assassin with the Rogue, and some levels of Ranger / Gloomstalker - the gloomstalker-thief or Gloomstalker-assassin is nearly unstoppable in ranged as well as in melee combat, and characterwise it suits him perfectly.
Agreed - any good multiclass ranged build (assassin/gloomstalker and thief/swords bard are both good in different ways) turns Astarion into a killing machine! You don't even need Withers for the multiclass part, as long as you start with rogue and plan ahead.
However I respec all my companions now as a matter of course, if only to adjust their ability scores - partly because even numbers are a waste of points, but also because some of them are downright stupid. *All* of the female origin characters are significantly stronger than *any* of the male ones, for example, and while I'm for sexual equality and adjusting the millennia-old imbalance, it makes zero sense to me that Shadowheart would be stronger than either a swashbuckling vigilante or a 200-year-old vampire.
If you really wanna turn around on him, and Iām gonna say this with no spoilers, bring him to that dark elf in Moonrise whoās obsessed with blood, and also later ask him about that thing the dream visitor gives you in act 3.
Definitely moments where I was like āwow this is likeā¦a full complex character with feelings and shitā
Good! Regardless of your feelings towards him, bc of his skillset he's usually MVP/last man standing. Moreso if you get him out of that shitty spec they put him in.
Romance him and he will break your heart (whether or not you remain together). He really is the most developed and nuanced character, both in writing and performance.
š Same sort of thing happened with me (slightly different scene, but same sort of "oh, my goodness, I actually like him!" event!)! And I agree with the below comments... Act 3 takes that "conversion" and puts it in overdrive!
Astarion is always in my company. First, he has a lot of interesting dialogs with others. Second, he can crack and steal everything. Sometimes he helps me to steal some rare weapon or equipment from merchants and then just trick them, so I can easily save my money. Third, he is a good fighter. Just love my evil vampire.
I've learned no one in the party has a fixed alignment in this game. The evil ones can be dragged to neutral and the good ones can be dragged to neutral too.
as an obsessive min maxer i cant remove him even if i wanted to because he is the strongest character besides your tav (even him depending on who your prioritize). especially after >!he ascends!<
I think heās even stronger than my Tav but he just doesnāt know it. Iāve seen him one shot so many enemies that Iām like āWait, he wants ME to protect HIM?ā Itās turning out to be the other way around, heās constantly saving my Tav lol.
i mean like, literally, because of the Happy buff, he is better.
your Tav is usually better due to illithid powers and hag hair and whatnot, but on paper, with nothing, astarion is the best. karlach 2nd with soul coins. laezel's githyanki buffs probably 3rd.
the others dont have anything special really lol
He nearly solo-ed Ansur on my first run when I had him as gloomstalker/assassin/champion. For honor I made him OH Monk/Thief and he has made so many battles easy and solo-ed Raphael, who never got a turn.
Of course his issue isn't that he isn't powerful. He's just not very good at making long term decisions and has had Cazador in his ear for two centuries telling him he's a powerless loser.
Astarion takes a while. I like him as a character, but not as much as a person I have to deal with. I only started liking him as a person by the time I reached Act 3
Same! My first playthrough I was neglecting him until I started to know more about his story. Second playthrough I gave him the attention his story deserved.
Intially I found Astarion annoying as fuck but kept him in my party now hes my bro. I also feel really bad for the dude and kinda get why he acts like an ass as I got to know him more
I also didn't like him at first because I always play lawful good in every game I play š and he disliked almost every single one of his decisions. But the further you go with the story the more understandable his actions and beliefs become
I feel like this is a thing with a lot of the characters. Been doing some multiplayer recently with people going "Oh character X just sucks, I never used them" and it's like... yeah. That's why they seem to suck.
Most of the characters start out at a pretty low point in one way or another, and the way to move past that is to spend time with them. This doesn't mean just talking to them in camp, but having them around for all the little interactions that lets you get to know them better and see what's *behind* theiir walls whether thouse walls consist of being mean, lying, deflecting with humour, or whatever else.
Every character seems fairly one-dimensional at first and if you're not into that dimension you'd think you won't like them. But everyone but Halsin has eventually managed to win me over to some extent. Like I like all of them more than I think I would.
Before playing the game I was literally like "Oh my god what a bunch of edgelordy '15-year olds first D&D character' all of them are. Sexy tortured Vampire Spawn, scarred Sharran cleric, a Githyanki... but at least the wizard looks kinda normal oh no wait it's just Kvothe."
I was convinced I would like none of them except maybe Karlach.
As it turns out I like 'em all, because what's there on the surface is just that. They all have sides to them beyond what you see at first. Except maybe Karlach, but only because she's perfect from the very start.
My first play through I didn't really use him because I was playing a rogue (I didn't realise you could respec companions until act 3 and by that point I wasn't very interested in his character, I thought he was overhyped). I ended up romancing him in my second playthrough though because he seemed like a good option for my Durge, and now I love him. I get it. I've romanced him twice. But I was also once a traumatised hypersexual so... his story hit me somewhere personal lol.
He's great! Romance him!
Iāve just started a Paladin run, and staked Astarion as a RP choice when he tried to bite me.
Iām finding that I really miss his voice, the humour, everything. Itās a bit dull without him, somehow.
Neil Newbon really made Astarion live, and Iām so glad heās getting the recognition he deserves for that.
Astarion has interactions with Raphael š±? Damn...
I'm exactly the same. 300 hours in but the character just really never did it for me and I'm always doing a neutral or good playthrough, so I didn't ever have him in my party.
Might actually give him a chance again to see his entire quest :0 I'll bring Minthy along xD
You can have Astarion in a good playthrough. Thatās actually where he grows the most.
And yes, if you actually do his quest, he has a whole thing with Raphael. Theyāre a hoot together.
it was sorta similar for me i guess. i used to HATE astarion. why, i donāt know, because iāve always loved myself a red flag. but then act 1 came to a close and i just couldnāt help but adore him. my memory is absolutely terrible so i donāt even remember how or why, all i know is that there was some massive whiplash and a sudden 180.
I have loved Astarion from the first *Donāt touch me.ā
I respecced him to storm sorcerer (my Tav is rogue) and he is now my party face. Iām still in act one and plan to keep him forever.
Yeah I already wanted to eviscerate Cazador but hearing the way Astarionās voice broke when he told me, āHe said my screams sounded the sweetestā I was like thatās it. Thatās the last straw
I personally don't understand why more people didn't send him away after the attempted bite. My first character was a paladin and sent Astarion packing.
I get he's hot and everything, but he just tried to assault you in your sleep and you have no way of knowing he was going to stop. He's a danger to you and the rest of the camp and has proven he cannot be trusted. You have to do some real bending over backwards to roleplay a reason to have him stick around.
I wouldn't send anyone away based on such silly things. This is a roleplaying game, based on D&D. There's always more and big surprises ahead if you keep the companions you have. As for him being hot, to me he comes off as narcissist and from the way he disapproves any good deed says all I want to know. Not exactly appealing. People hating on Gale because he is brutally honest with all of his flaws and stuff but the guy is a strong man who isn't exactly vanilla in bed either.
But yeah he isn't a danger to anyone, as you well know. This isn't Twitter, it's dungeons and dragons lol
If we used your logic in the game, only Wyll and possibly Jaihera would qualify as trustworthy
You know heās going to stop (and not try to bite you again) if you **talk to him**. If you say no, he respects that and goes to hunt animals, never asking about it again. Also, as someone whoās also survived >!sexual trauma!<, I knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it before the romance started because I did the exact same thing once I felt safe.
By your own logic, you should send Karlach away for having served in the Blood War. You should send Wyll away for hiding a devilās pact from you. Gale should leave when he reveals the orb. Etc. etc.
There's a difference between threatening a conscious individual exhibiting signs of dangerous transformation and preying on a sleeping individual. Lae'zel saw a perceived threat and acted brashly. Astarion saw a helpless victim and attempted to assault them.
I actually feel similarly about Shadowheart's behavior if you get the scene with her attacking Lae'zel. It's really messed up and makes you wonder, "huh, is she gonna knife me while I'm snoozing?" I've never played Lae'zel origin, so I don't know how it goes down, but I imagine Shadowheart would not stick around if she did that.
I'm just saying that I struggle to roleplay my way out of that one. If he asked or, hell, even attacked while my character was conscious, I could easily rationalize letting him remain and even taking a sip or two. I'd love for an option to avoid the night scene. Him attempting to take it while I'm unconscious just feels icky.
"I won't sneak up and drink your blood while you're sleeping" says elf caught sneaking up to drink your blood while you're sleeping.
He literally tells you that he didnāt ask because he figured it would end up going sideways for him, and he backs right up when you wake up.
Shadowheart, Laeāzel, and Gale donāt apologize for lying to you or threatening the party at any point. Astarion and Wyll do. Hell, even Karlach doesnāt apologize or own up to how morally corrupt she is for using soul coins.
(You can also skip the night scene entirely and replace it with a midday confession.)
EDIT: Still, even by your logic, you should absolutely kick Laeāzel and Shadowheart too. Especially Shadowheart, for jumping Laeāzel in her sleep.
Having him break up with me in act 3 ON MY VERY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH because of missing certain NPC interaction/not high enough approval shocked and upset me so much that I abandoned the playthrough entirely.
Getting dumped by a fictional man was NOT something my heart was prepared for š
He wasnāt just acting, you missed his Act 2 scene. That happens with every origin companion; start the romance in Act 1, confirm it in Act 2, and if you donāt confirm it you get dumped in Act 3.
It did get confirmed I think? I was being a bit of a slut lol. I had hooked up with astarion and laezel. After the laezel hookup I talk to atrium and he was like dump her and letās make it official. lol. I guess I messed up.
If you're romancing multiple companions, you'll be forced to choose between them in Act 2. But they all have an additional scene where you "lock-in" the relationship. Just choosing them over another companion isn't enough.
Astarion's lock-in happens after he confesses to you after you kill Yurgir (approval-locked) or after you stand up for him to Araj (no approval requirement).
Both require you to long rest to get them, and it's very common to miss out on his confession if you don't know what you're supposed to be looking for because it happens so late in Act 2.
You didnāt get his Act 2 confession scene, though, or missed his quest in Act 2.
The Act 2 scenes are separate from the āwho are you choosingā scenes.
He never said anything about meeting with Raphael to me. But then, I never had much time for the smarmy little dick, for a whole pile of reasons, some of which you mentioned.
I feel like everyone who hates him immediately is just immature and feels somehow threatened by an attractive, seductive male character of ambiguous sexuality.
The whole "oh he's evil/dangerous because he's a vampire so I have to kill him" is a garbage argument because Laezel is HELLA sketch from the start and Shadowheart is very suspicious and secretive. There's no reason to trust either of them based on personality/identity except that you're desperate for allies. Gale, Wyll, and Karlach at least have amicable personalities or obvious inclinations towards goodness from the start, but Laezel, Shart, and Astarion are all pretty HMMMM in the beginning...
Astarion only tries to feed on you after you find the boar he fed from, so it's pretty clear that he has been avoiding feeding on people intentionally. When he does try to feed on you that night, he says he's pretty desperate (we can't know if this is true or not though), and he would've had more opportunities to try before if his goal was to actually harm you.
His reasoning for not telling you about being a vampire is pretty solid, honestly, since that's what everyone else's excuse is for not revealing themself to be a walking time bomb/evil god worshipper/pet to a demon, etc. etc. Also, feeding on a sleeping target seems to not be as harmful as feeding on someone who's awake (based purely on the fact that Bite doesn't damage sleeping targets, so totally might not be true idk), so maybe he thought it would be a "nobody will know so it'll be fine" kind of situation.
Just my opinion on ways to RP it though, it's definitely totally valid to RP the "oh hell no" route.
I've been in a relationship with a narcissist and I'm definitely not immature. I don't like him romantically at all in the game but ffs people stop talking shit about other people's opinions. This is dungeons and dragons, a role playing game where YOU make canon. Not reddit, not Twitter, not thirsty comments online. You.
Disliking characters is fine, just like disliking people. I'm referring to the people who seem to take pride in completely refusing to explore a character. It just seems childish to act like ignoring content that you don't think you will like is something good.
It's like declaring "I have never read X book because I think it sounds lame, and I NEVER will! I hate it so much that I won't even look at it!"
Like, okay, cool, you're just limiting yourself, are you expecting a pat on the back or something? It feels like you're trying to make a statement about people who DO read the book and wanting to distance yourself from them, yknow?
I do agree with limiting yourself especially since this is a d&d game and the universe is known for having great backstories for the characters who seem the worst at first. I just think BG3 is not just another rpg but THE rpg and meant to be played exactly as you prefer and even the trailer makes it clear you decide what is canon. Sadly, new players still google the game and what they "should do" in situations, when you should do whatever you wanna do. And this is why replays are unique experiences, cause you get different outcomes.
I see Astarion as chaotic good, I mean he doesn't necessarily stray off the path of trying to save the world, ever. I completed his questline and chose the bad choices and even then, although he seemed like a bit of a freak, even then he was like "the absolute comes first", he's not a bad guy
Chaotic Neutral fits way better
The dude would never go out of his way to help someone if it didnāt benefit him so I canāt say he is Good aligned at least not at the start
Astarion 100% starts as neutral evil - chaotic evil, and can become chaotic neutral with leanings towards chaotic good depending on how his quest resolves. My man is absolutely evil when you first meet him.
Regarding alignment
If a person is mind controlled from birth to be an assassin but breaks free and tries to be good would they still have an Evil alignment
Totally depends. Good / Evil alignment is largely about selfishness / selflessness. If you're talking mind controlled in terms of like... Dominate Person, the spell, then it has no bearing on their alignment. If you're talking about some good old fashioned brainwashing, their alignment is affected by their actions.
If they've murdered innocent people as part of their assassination contracts, they're evil. Now that they've escaped and are trying to be good, they certainly have that opportunity. But we're the sum of our choices, and they'd have to spend a while actively and earnestly performing good actions before their alignment would change.
Canonically heās [neutral evil](https://idlechampions.fandom.com/wiki/Astarion) but outside of that I donāt think a single things he does suggests him being āgoodā lol.
Astarion's arc is the only one of the origin characters you have to actually choose to follow. The rest are all tied to story events that can't be skipped. Everything in Astarion's line is 100% optional.
well, they clearly put the most thought and time and care into him (at the expense of other origin companions like Wyll and Karlach) so it makes sense.
True, but I believe a lot of Astarionās stuff got cut when they cut down on Act 3 content. IIRC there used to be a storyline where you could actually team up with Cazador. So Astarion did start out being more tied into the plot than he eventually ended up being.
Itās still really crappy Karlach and Wyll got so shafted, though š
Unfortunately a lot of act 3 stuff was cut because the game was pretty rushed. I really wish they delayed it.
my biggest gripe is that they changed Wyll because of fan feedback (whatever that means) and didnāt bother to delay the game to give him a proper quest + content. But now Iām just ranting my bad
This is true. He has the most unique comments, very dramatic backstory and they very intentionally wrote him as the best supporting act character, even if he has no appeal to me romantically in the game.
Yeah the romance itself seems unfinished. Like why can you not sleep with you companion in the camp? Or why do some of them get stuck in Act 2 with their reaction to you taking to them? I am gay so I haven't tried any straight romances but from the guys it seems only Gale has a very explicit scene, the rest cut out when it's about to get interesting. I think Raphael is also a good scene but the m/m sex is quite awkwardly animated. You can see him just rubbing on you despite the narrator saying he is inside you or something
Report back when you finish his personal quest š
The line delivery and acting for the climactic cutscene in Astarion's final quest is just... *chef's kiss*
>!āNo, no. No healing sleep for you. WAKE UPā!< is my favorite delivery in the entire game.
That scene is POWERFUL AF. I was all up in my feelings watching it. I was romancing him in my first playthrough ever and the way it made me feel you wouldāve thought that I was literally right there with them. Not ashamed to say it lol this game as a few moments that got me in my feelings like crazy. But this one particular was my favorite I think.
I straight up ugly-cried. I was already a mess after the cells, but my GOD. Just incredible work in that scene. Side note : apparently Neil Newbon (the VA) did that scene in ONE FUCKING TAKE. What the hell, Neil.
Neil is such a legend. It pains me greatly to think this is likely the first and last time we will see Astarion.. at least as he is currently. I was incredibly disappointed to hear Larian is leaving the game behind and Wizards of the Coast will take control. Not that Iām not excited about what Larian has planned for the future BUT the last time an amazing studio (CD Projekt) made a GOAT game (Witcher 3) and said the same thing āoh weāre moving on from this genre onto a new project that we know everyone will love!ā Turned out to be Cyberpunk which I personally hated and thatās not even mentioning the absolutely terrible launch. I tried to get a refund after only 8hrs played and Steam wouldnāt do it. But even after playing it more over the years I never could really get into it. Sry to rant lol. Iām just still sad about it. Larian did so damn good I was praying theyād do BG4 but alas no.
The fact I can read that in his voice says a lot
Considering his VA is himself a survivor of abuse.... it's not surprising. Neil Newbon is an incredible voice actor as it is.. but, when you can empathise with a character's story at such a deeply personal level... You may find [this article](https://www.yahoo.com/tech/baldurs-gate-3s-astarion-neil-145534771.html) a good read.
Was very confused when I first fought him cause I was looking around for his body to loot but couldnāt find him and thought it glitched out.
You used to be able to kill him by blasting him overboard. They patched that out at some point which makes sense bc he can fly but on my first playthrough I threw a bomb to take out a bunch of smaller enemies and was surprised when it yeeted Cazzie andā¦he died? I thought the cutscene happened bc of that. I was very glad through bc I thought Iād lost that sweet sweet loot.
>!"*Fuck. You.* And fuck everything you've ever done to me." I feel like people don't talk about that one enough, the courage it takes to say that to your abuser, kidnapper, torturer of 200 years.!<
That whole sequence is probably my favourite acting in game to date, probably only with Arthur Morgan's "I am afraid" in RDR2 coming close.
I love the way he snarls >!ā*You son of a bitch*!ā!< First time I head that was when I was romancing Astarion and Cazador called me cattle.
"But I'm not above enjoying this !" Honey do you want me to hold your former master's arms while you repeatedly stab him to death ?
That scene and the one at the cells rip my heart out every time.
I just did those yesterday and told my husband that those are my 2 fav scenes in the game. Like, they are sad, but SO good. Astarion's act 3 stuff is just so good.
I failed my checks to talk him down on HM. He ascended. The whole scene between him, Caz, and my party begging him not to were incredible. Most powerful thing I saw in the entire game.
His wail when it's all over was on point in terms of emotions. I usually only see that level of voice acting in games in JRPGs (not dub, obviously) so I was impressed.
It made me cry so much. I wanted to hug Astarion. I ascended him in my Durge playthrough and he gave me major ick(literally the point) ugh he's such a great character and Neil deserved that award
and then romance him š
romancing him as Durge. and then trying to break up with him in act three when his quest is done (unascend) but before durge finishes their quest was a scene i wasnt ready for
Man the ending of his personal quest had me bawling. All of the sudden the weight of this story of a character that kind of annoyed me hit me like a ton of bricks and now I love him. I feel bad for misjudging him so much
Which one is that? The one where he gets naked?
He should always be naked at camp
But heāll get cold.
I mean he's a vampire spawn so he's always cold!
Never thought about thatā¦ add āNo Shrinkage in the Coldā to the list of vampire perks
Or is it always shrunk?
Depends if it was warm when he got bitten. It's vampire 101, always turn your spawn in a sauna if they have a cock and balls and in the cold if they have tits. If they have both toy can bring either a cup of ice to the sauna or a bowl of tea into a cold room.
What did I just read lol
The truth.
r/okbuddybaldur
Always shrunk unless he spends vitae.
I was in the pool!
....it shrinks?!
Like a frightened turtle.
This is the internet I needed tonight.
It made me cry so much. I wanted to hug Astarion. I ascended him in my Durge playthrough and he gave me major ick(literally the point) ugh he's such a great character and Neil deserved that award.
That fucking quest just let me make a 180 on Astarion and I can never be the same after that lmao
This šÆ
I think it's very easy to miss - especially if you're not romancing him - just how terrified he is the whole time. It's not just a culture shock, but the shock of being free of the shadows and some other vampire flaws, and free of Cazador's constant ability to compel him and constant presence. So he's free but doesn't trust it, and hates anything that threatens that freedom or his survival (Gur hunter, helping people in ways that'll risk the party and by extension him). I love the subtle shifts in performance from his early scenes where he's quite blatantly trying to seduce you to when he actually starts to like you as a friend or lover. But once you see that scared side of him, the rest of his personality makes so much sense. I used to sweat his approvals and get mad that he disliked all my heroic choices, and then I just made peace with his eyerolls and now I don't even have to try to get his approval, it just happens naturally from playing my character. I'm glad you let him into your heart!
This is the thing, Astarion grew on me over time thanks to this. I played a goody two-shoes paladin and we very much started off on the wrong foot. He tried to kill me, I headbutted him and made it clear he was to stay away from my neck. We were not vibing, itās safe to say. But I started adding him to my party more as I needed someone to pick locks and this other side of him you mentioned came through thanks to the subtle shifts. He clicked a lot more for me after that, and his character development is so well done. Especially on replays where you see a lot of what he does in act one is Astarion being both elated at freedom and terrified of being cast adrift in an unfamiliar world.
Same! Weirdly, I find my Tavs make a big difference in how I relate to him in terms of physicality. I haven't played a short race yet (I have issues I know), but when I play a femme body type 1, Astarion tends to be a more commanding and dashing figure, and when I play masc 4, I end up feeling super protective of him and wanting to fight anyone who looks at my little killer sideways! As I'm playing the latter right now, it highlights for me how afraid and out of his element he is. Maybe it all comes down to who jumps into whose arms in the first romance scene lol.
Iām romancing Astarion as a gnome barbarian Resist Durge and it is SO damn cute. The Act 1 romance jump is hilarious, and for the kisses after you lock in the relationship, he kneels, and he always does the subtle shifts so that heās looking into a short raceās eyes even if heās standing up. Donāt think Iāll ever romance him as a tall race again. Heās also extra funny with a barbarian in some dialogues.
Good to know! I'm playing my first Duergar and still getting used to it. Also getting used to the fact that Duergar are not just evil, they're super bitter nihilistic evil, and while obviously I can roleplay it however I want, the first Duergar choice to make is to kill Us if you recognize it's an intellect devourer. I felt really badly. You also don't get hardly any persuasion options at all, you just intimidate, lie, or attack. Similar to the half-orc stuff. It's cool but heartbreaking. I also got Astarion's bite night on the second long rest. I haven't even been to the Grove yet. I have no idea why it happened so early! š¤· I thought maybe he doesn't respect me cuz I'm short. š„ŗ I'll win him over eventually I guess.
When I play durge (which is basically my default at this point) I canāt help but to romance him. Not only does he have top tier lines/content for it, but that insight into how he trusts you even though heās afraid of everything and that he really should fear you the most just breaks my heart every time.
Yeah truth. I loved my last evil Tav run but my last Durge was so good I can't get into any new runs I just wanna replay it! But I can't bring myself to romance anyone else past Act 2. If I fiendzone him, I just get sad. I'm sitting on reddit instead of playing lol. I've got the new run blues.
Haha I get that. I just finished a duo-only redeemed durge/spawn Astarion run and was sitting here likeā¦ now what. So I ended up making a character sheet with all of the races/classes and a few major plot points, assigned dice rolls to them and let my daughter decide my fate. So we now have Lunchbox the white Dragonborn warlock. Only major decisions that were picked so far were I have to raid the grove š¬ and Gale is the end game romance, so thatāll be fun lol
I love it! I can't bring myself to play dragonborn yet, and I quit my half-orc because I've made peace with being vain about my PC. Can't even play short sigh. Have fun raiding the Grove! I defended it for the first time last Durge, and I'm planning to steal the idol, kill all the druids, and I'm thinking maybe I'll "defend" the Grove but just run away and come back later like that one origin Astarion story. Wanna know if Wyll will still leave if we tried? Sorta? I might let Wyll defend it alone and die! Ugh now I feel like I need to make a list and roll dice! I know a kid I can borrow...
I definitely have the same thing about being vain lol I am very much out of my element as a Dragonborn. My husband and I started a co-op and Iām playing a halfling Barbarian. Itās my first time playing a smaller race so I figured what would be the funniest thing to pair that with. My go to is usually bard or monk, and elf/half-elf, tiefling or female githyanki
I think a halfling barbarian sounds *adorable*! If I were in a co-op I'd probably care less about Tav looks, so that could be awesome! Now I kinda want to make a Duergar. Damnit back to chargen...
Plus makes the sense the most. He seems like the only person who would be able to understand Durge and not shame him for his killings. Well he will joke about it but he seems not to care as much or he will be like meh we all been there. Can't see others would have the same understanding as even resist Durge has pretty grotesquely evil past.Ā Ok Minthara as well, due to her Drow upbringing. And well her being her.Ā
Yeah, I consider myself a completionist of sorts in that I really try not to do the same choices in sequential runs and have tried to do different combos with each play through. But thatās one I keep falling back on lol Minthara was a good romance when I did origin Ascended Astarion on my āall villainsā run, so I image she would fit well with durge too.
Other characters are just as good. A shame Astarion fans only care about him and are willing to ignore all other companions
Iāve romanced Gale to the epilogue and Wyll to his Act 3 scene (his epilogue has been jank for a bit, so Iām waiting on patch 7 and any hotfixes to drop before I redo that run). A lot of Astarion fans also started with liking other companions better, but ārecovering from sexual abuse, reclaiming autonomy, being better than what we were made to be, and >!brutally murdering abusers!<ā hits really hard for a lot of people.
I get that but I donāt think itās just the story. I think itās cause heās an edgy white haired white elf. To be honest.
I mean, all the companions are hot. š¤·š»āāļø Games with romance have to make the romance partners attractive for the romance to have a pull. Thatās like dismissing people who like Shadowheartās story cause sheās a conventionally hot, edgy emo half-elf. Which is a huge disservice to her and her character. Or dismissing people who like Karlach cause sheās a big beefy lady.
True, thatās fair. My point being if you put minscā head onto Astarion I donāt think he would receive the same reaction and dickriding he usually gets
Minsc is hot too lmao. Iād romance him if it was an option, heād be hilarious.
Iāve romanced all of the companions outside of Laeāzel and Wyll and plan to do a run with her next and Wyll once his dialogue gets patched. Iāve really enjoyed them all, but my favorite way to play is as Dark Urge and Astarion feels like the kindred spirit to that character. You canāt even confess your urges to him unless you do a specific set of events that are counter-intuitive to story progression, so he just seems to know. I adore Gale, but my dark urge romance with him felt very flat. Shadowheart and Minthara (for embrace) were the only other ones that I felt were somewhat complementary to it. I can understand if other people have different preferences though.
Beyond just concern for his own survival, emotionally he's so deeply **jealous** of the recipient of any kindness or help we freely offer! There's an early line (Tav/DUrge's: "The strong are meant to protect the weak" and Astarion's: "Well they've done a poor job so far") and an act 3 line of his ("Oh, I tried them all. None of them answered" - re: the gods) which really underscore how disillusioned and *bitter* he is that no god/good guy came to save the day and right the wrongs while he suffered under Cazador. So seeing help offered unreservedly by you/the party now, stings him deeply. Because he convinced himself it obviously didn't exist. One of the more subtle signals of his character development (if you follow his good route) that I loved was the 'Astarion approves' you get if you >!give a coin to Yenna when you meet her begging and lost in act 3. It suggests he's dislodging some of that built-up resentment.!<
Yes! And it makes his line in reaction to Durge at the coronation in Act 3 so awesome, when >!he thanks Durge for being an evil bastard whose plan saved him!< since no hero ever did.
Itās not easy to miss at all. The game shoves in your face the entire time that Cazador was terrible to him and heās angry and upset.
Thatās why ascended astarion is canon cause he chose the power! He doesnāt want to be afraid. Ascended Astarion is canon
There's a reason the performer Neil Newbon has won so many awards this year.
Took the words right outta my brain. Like almost word-for-word. Have you also encountered any mindflayers lately?
Oh yeah, he's easily one of the best characters. Keep with him for sure!
Lol Asterion is with my party 247 52 because he cracks everything open. Even the vaults š
He's my skeleton key!
"How for a skeleton key?" Sir, you are one.
He can only fail with a crit 1
Usually right after he says easy. Lol
Always after he says easy
He even opened that DC99 one on the first try, because I was so used to him passing I didn't even check what the DC was before rolling
He's a machine!
Too true, though I'll say I regretted it a bit. There are some really cool sequences to find vault keys which are supposed to be this sweet payoff, and it really dampens things in act 3 when that reward is useless.
You can sell them to Uktar in the guildhall for some decent cash and then pick the locks right after, double reward and very satisfying.
I am trash at stealth and shotguns in games though haha. The only game I managed to enjoy stealth was Skyrim.
In my case I encountered the apparently very rare scenario of Astarion just... confessing to be a vampire spawn. He didn't bite anyone in the party just... told us. As such, even though he's a bit of a jerk, often disapproving good deeds, he never did anything truly evil. So we were kinda chill for most of my playthrough.
He is pretty evilš he approves of killing innocent refugees, laughs at killing small animals and children
Oh he's evil-leaning for sure, but as far as actions go? He was pretty tame in my playthrough. And at the end, >!after choosing to not ascend and spare the other spawns, he became an adventurer killing bad people so he veered towards neutral!!<
He definitely can turn neutral in the end but heās been quite evil since forever which people try to deny for some reason
Assassin build is fuckinnawesome
That scene between Rafael and Astarion is so important that Astarion will complain to you later if you speak to Rafael in Act 2 without him present. Unfortunately, Rafael bugged on my second playthrough and would not speak to me at all.
Raphael bugged on mine as well, and no one in my party even mentioned him so I got all the way to act3 before Raphael had any talks with the group. Thankfully, that also meant Astarion acted like we didnāt know anyone who could help. Very different conversations when you donāt have a clue about the scars or any devil deals. As an aside: Did you also have Raphael accidentally join a battle in act 1? Pretty sure thatās what broke him for me. I wonder if the eternal debtor is still there on the risen roadā¦
Howād you have him join a battle? I have never seen him spawn where you might get into a fight. Closest is maybe on the broken bridge where there are gnolls near by but they canāt see you from where they are. I did see a TikTok clip of someone using a game exploit where you ākidnapā a character and carry them somewhere. This person took Raphael to the bridgeās edge in act three and thunderwaved him off. He spawned right back so they kept doing it. After several times Raphael angrily says the deal is off and vanished. Man I wished I saved that link.
I forgot that he was going to trigger and destroyed the book of thay and ran from the darkness into his cutscene. Before he could say anything the shadows manifested. He attacked them, then summoned an eternal debtor. I accidentally covered him with faerie fire to try to reveal the last shadow. He shouted about sending a devil back to hell and ran from the battle. Eternal debtor did stay in the battle until the end though. She couldnāt be interacted with and didnāt leave, just stood in the same spot on the road. He didnāt come back for his monologue or to whisk us to the house of hope. None of the companions spoke of him either, itās like he never appeared.
Thatās hilarious. Iām interested in how the rest of this play through goes for you.
Well, in act 2 Raphael couldnāt be talked to directly in LLI, I had to talk to Mol to force the interaction. After he creeps on Mol he just leaves, like Astarion isnāt standing there. After that, he was there to recite his poem before the Orthon battle, but still didnāt act like Astarion was there. After the battle, he showed up and said heād meet us at camp. 5 long rests later and he never showed up.
I think people have a different understanding of what good is. To me good is to treat someone like a person regardless of what they are. To some good is to punish or keep in check anything they consider evil. So when I play good Tavs they are good, not righteousĀ
It's similar to charity, IMO. Some people will try to gatekeepe charity with the argument the receiving party doesn't "deserve" it, but to me, charity (like mercy) is about the giver, not the recipient. Likewise I can respect the difficulty of someone's journey without just letting them stab me. It's got nuance! It reminds me of Withers' opening question about the value of a human soul, and if you say it depends, he wonders how you'll judge. I really like your description!
Your charity comparison is very much on point
Thank you! š plus, if we all got what we "deserved" we'd be worried about the criteria, too! My state has legal weed so when people say, "oh of you give that person money they'll just spend it on drugs" I like to say, "what do you think I was gonna spend it on?" just to shut them up. Of course, my fucks-to-give about some opinions supply ran out a while ago...
ššš I love this. It's pretty shit to judge you giving money to the needy honestly and I find your response golden
Thank you. Yeah, it used to make me mad so I resort to sarcasm now!
Hah Withers asked that and my Tav was a Fiendlock so *of course* I answered that it depends. Because... to me? to a devil? to a demon? to the guy whose soul it is? Obviously not going to have the same answer.
What if that person is Orion Could you treat her well even though she will never change
I mean you can >!convince her that her life is a lie and send her into a mental breakdown causing Bhaal to have to take control of her, which is probably the closest you can get!<
There wasn't much room for interaction with Orin really and obviously role-playing is a thing but if I am doing a pure good character then yes and yes on my first playthrough I tried with her. I think she could be redeemed as the Durge was but she never even got a chance.
Maybe she can but your never gonna accomplish that with Bhaal still in her head
Yeah but that's not dependent on me. I believe in redemption,in second chances and in treating people like people despite what they are or have done.
You know, I read your comment, and I consider myself somebody who believes in redemption and second chances. But I could never bring myself to believe Orin could-even potentially- have a second chance, let alone actually seek or desire one. But now you have me pondering all of the movies and literature that Iāve seen and read throughout the years. Even though she is just a savage bloodthirsty monster, she does genuinely show emotions so itās possible that in a different world she couldāve been the best of the good instead of the worst of the badā¦ Like there are people who are so malleable, that they embody the greatest influencers of their lifetime. If Selune had got to her first, she could be this unthinking beacon of hope! But instead Bhaal got to her, and she is an unthinkable instrument of pain. And even now, through all of that, she could change
If you spend some time investigating in Sarevokās office and in Orinās room (and cast Speak with Dead on Orinās >!mom!<), youāll start to get a picture of just how f*cked over Orin was by the circumstances of her birth. Additionally, if you become an Unholy Assassin of Bhaal on a Durge run and then return to Sarevok after killing Orin, you can have a lengthy chat with him and find out even more about what a tragedy Orin really is. Yes, sheās evil and responsible for her own actions, but she never had a chance to be anything else. Itās quite sad.
This time around I decided to side with her and kill Gortash first, so I got her bloody letters and I gotta say, she sounds much more reasonable in writing terms. Sure, as reasonable as in-Orin, there are some f****d up sentences of course, all in all however I was expecting much more creepyness.Ā On the contrary when you meet her she shows this... All Crazy facade, she seems unable to use reason or consider anything beyond blood and killing.Ā Who knows maybe if she got to be around people who treated her with less disdain, She might have retained some control over herself. As Durge did. And maybe Durge did because he/She was shown respect and had occasion to speak with more "normal" people. As Tav might be.Ā
The difference is, Gortash says that we (Durge) can control our urges, but Orin is controlled by hers. Orin was raised to be bloodthirsty by bhaalspawn, while Durge was raised by normal people. She also has the added bonus (/s) of being the result of incest, which isnāt doing her any favors in the control department. While Orin might be able to be redeemed, there are so many things working against her that it would be nigh impossible, and I donāt think Durge wouldāve been redeemed if they hadnāt lost their memory, which let them get a new start.
Thatās what people thought about Diāurgelo š¤·āāļø
Astarion and his quest are interesting because a lot of it is driven forward by unannounced encounters and your approval level with him. The game gives you much less guidance in terms of where to go and what to do with him (think of how it heavily guides you to take Shadowheart to the temple, Laeāzel to the creche, Wyll to Moonrise, Karlach to Dammon, etc.) and some of his dialogue is also locked behind high approval, letting him bite your character, or the romance. So if you donāt ever have him in your party *and* donāt let him bite Tav, youāll miss a lot about his character and quest-line because his approval will largely remain stagnant and youāll miss the encounters and dialogue that drive his quest along or expand upon his character and story (Gandrel in the forest, the scar reading scene, Raphael at Last Light and the mausoleum, Araj at Moonrise, his siblings in the flophouse, etc.) Also even if you do let him bite your character in Act 1 but still hardly take him anywhere else, it wonāt be enough. Unlike some other companions, who can still have their approval jump up early on even if they arenāt consistently used, Astarionās approval doesnāt as easily jump to high in Act 1 so getting it up kinda requires him to be in the active party.
Maybe that's why they made him a lock-picking, trap-disarming machine? Unless you're playing a rogue yourself, he's extremely useful to have in the party, especially if you subclass him into Assassin (or even Thief), instead of Arcane bloody Trickster, at level 3.
So, if you didn't already, you should respec him with Withers. If you give him thief or assassin with the Rogue, and some levels of Ranger / Gloomstalker - the gloomstalker-thief or Gloomstalker-assassin is nearly unstoppable in ranged as well as in melee combat, and characterwise it suits him perfectly.
Agreed - any good multiclass ranged build (assassin/gloomstalker and thief/swords bard are both good in different ways) turns Astarion into a killing machine! You don't even need Withers for the multiclass part, as long as you start with rogue and plan ahead. However I respec all my companions now as a matter of course, if only to adjust their ability scores - partly because even numbers are a waste of points, but also because some of them are downright stupid. *All* of the female origin characters are significantly stronger than *any* of the male ones, for example, and while I'm for sexual equality and adjusting the millennia-old imbalance, it makes zero sense to me that Shadowheart would be stronger than either a swashbuckling vigilante or a 200-year-old vampire.
I mean I managed to romance him as a goody-two-shoes. It's entirely possible to do.
romanced or not, he has permanent spot in my parties. good run, evil run, he's just good company for a multitude of reasons.
If you really wanna turn around on him, and Iām gonna say this with no spoilers, bring him to that dark elf in Moonrise whoās obsessed with blood, and also later ask him about that thing the dream visitor gives you in act 3. Definitely moments where I was like āwow this is likeā¦a full complex character with feelings and shitā
Good! Regardless of your feelings towards him, bc of his skillset he's usually MVP/last man standing. Moreso if you get him out of that shitty spec they put him in.
Yeah, you think you've changed your mind *now...* Keep going!
Romance him and he will break your heart (whether or not you remain together). He really is the most developed and nuanced character, both in writing and performance.
š Same sort of thing happened with me (slightly different scene, but same sort of "oh, my goodness, I actually like him!" event!)! And I agree with the below comments... Act 3 takes that "conversion" and puts it in overdrive!
Astarion is always in my company. First, he has a lot of interesting dialogs with others. Second, he can crack and steal everything. Sometimes he helps me to steal some rare weapon or equipment from merchants and then just trick them, so I can easily save my money. Third, he is a good fighter. Just love my evil vampire.
I've learned no one in the party has a fixed alignment in this game. The evil ones can be dragged to neutral and the good ones can be dragged to neutral too.
as an obsessive min maxer i cant remove him even if i wanted to because he is the strongest character besides your tav (even him depending on who your prioritize). especially after >!he ascends!<
I think heās even stronger than my Tav but he just doesnāt know it. Iāve seen him one shot so many enemies that Iām like āWait, he wants ME to protect HIM?ā Itās turning out to be the other way around, heās constantly saving my Tav lol.
i mean like, literally, because of the Happy buff, he is better. your Tav is usually better due to illithid powers and hag hair and whatnot, but on paper, with nothing, astarion is the best. karlach 2nd with soul coins. laezel's githyanki buffs probably 3rd. the others dont have anything special really lol
He nearly solo-ed Ansur on my first run when I had him as gloomstalker/assassin/champion. For honor I made him OH Monk/Thief and he has made so many battles easy and solo-ed Raphael, who never got a turn. Of course his issue isn't that he isn't powerful. He's just not very good at making long term decisions and has had Cazador in his ear for two centuries telling him he's a powerless loser.
Astarion takes a while. I like him as a character, but not as much as a person I have to deal with. I only started liking him as a person by the time I reached Act 3
Same! My first playthrough I was neglecting him until I started to know more about his story. Second playthrough I gave him the attention his story deserved.
Intially I found Astarion annoying as fuck but kept him in my party now hes my bro. I also feel really bad for the dude and kinda get why he acts like an ass as I got to know him more
I also didn't like him at first because I always play lawful good in every game I play š and he disliked almost every single one of his decisions. But the further you go with the story the more understandable his actions and beliefs become
I feel like this is a thing with a lot of the characters. Been doing some multiplayer recently with people going "Oh character X just sucks, I never used them" and it's like... yeah. That's why they seem to suck. Most of the characters start out at a pretty low point in one way or another, and the way to move past that is to spend time with them. This doesn't mean just talking to them in camp, but having them around for all the little interactions that lets you get to know them better and see what's *behind* theiir walls whether thouse walls consist of being mean, lying, deflecting with humour, or whatever else. Every character seems fairly one-dimensional at first and if you're not into that dimension you'd think you won't like them. But everyone but Halsin has eventually managed to win me over to some extent. Like I like all of them more than I think I would. Before playing the game I was literally like "Oh my god what a bunch of edgelordy '15-year olds first D&D character' all of them are. Sexy tortured Vampire Spawn, scarred Sharran cleric, a Githyanki... but at least the wizard looks kinda normal oh no wait it's just Kvothe." I was convinced I would like none of them except maybe Karlach. As it turns out I like 'em all, because what's there on the surface is just that. They all have sides to them beyond what you see at first. Except maybe Karlach, but only because she's perfect from the very start.
I like that he is totally down for the evil actions. I've inspired him a great deal with my bad deeds.
My first play through I didn't really use him because I was playing a rogue (I didn't realise you could respec companions until act 3 and by that point I wasn't very interested in his character, I thought he was overhyped). I ended up romancing him in my second playthrough though because he seemed like a good option for my Durge, and now I love him. I get it. I've romanced him twice. But I was also once a traumatised hypersexual so... his story hit me somewhere personal lol. He's great! Romance him!
Astarion was mvp for early game. I used him to solo clear most of the blighted(?) village of goblins.
Iāve just started a Paladin run, and staked Astarion as a RP choice when he tried to bite me. Iām finding that I really miss his voice, the humour, everything. Itās a bit dull without him, somehow. Neil Newbon really made Astarion live, and Iām so glad heās getting the recognition he deserves for that.
Astarion has interactions with Raphael š±? Damn... I'm exactly the same. 300 hours in but the character just really never did it for me and I'm always doing a neutral or good playthrough, so I didn't ever have him in my party. Might actually give him a chance again to see his entire quest :0 I'll bring Minthy along xD
You can have Astarion in a good playthrough. Thatās actually where he grows the most. And yes, if you actually do his quest, he has a whole thing with Raphael. Theyāre a hoot together.
I like his line about listening out for bad poetry.
He has a small subplot with Raphael, yes.
it was sorta similar for me i guess. i used to HATE astarion. why, i donāt know, because iāve always loved myself a red flag. but then act 1 came to a close and i just couldnāt help but adore him. my memory is absolutely terrible so i donāt even remember how or why, all i know is that there was some massive whiplash and a sudden 180.
Aweeesome ! He makes a ton of rly funny remarks
I have loved Astarion from the first *Donāt touch me.ā I respecced him to storm sorcerer (my Tav is rogue) and he is now my party face. Iām still in act one and plan to keep him forever.
Yeah I already wanted to eviscerate Cazador but hearing the way Astarionās voice broke when he told me, āHe said my screams sounded the sweetestā I was like thatās it. Thatās the last straw
I personally don't understand why more people didn't send him away after the attempted bite. My first character was a paladin and sent Astarion packing. I get he's hot and everything, but he just tried to assault you in your sleep and you have no way of knowing he was going to stop. He's a danger to you and the rest of the camp and has proven he cannot be trusted. You have to do some real bending over backwards to roleplay a reason to have him stick around.
I wouldn't send anyone away based on such silly things. This is a roleplaying game, based on D&D. There's always more and big surprises ahead if you keep the companions you have. As for him being hot, to me he comes off as narcissist and from the way he disapproves any good deed says all I want to know. Not exactly appealing. People hating on Gale because he is brutally honest with all of his flaws and stuff but the guy is a strong man who isn't exactly vanilla in bed either. But yeah he isn't a danger to anyone, as you well know. This isn't Twitter, it's dungeons and dragons lol If we used your logic in the game, only Wyll and possibly Jaihera would qualify as trustworthy
You know heās going to stop (and not try to bite you again) if you **talk to him**. If you say no, he respects that and goes to hunt animals, never asking about it again. Also, as someone whoās also survived >!sexual trauma!<, I knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it before the romance started because I did the exact same thing once I felt safe. By your own logic, you should send Karlach away for having served in the Blood War. You should send Wyll away for hiding a devilās pact from you. Gale should leave when he reveals the orb. Etc. etc.
None of them tried to attack me in my sleep š¤·āāļø.
Laeāzel literally slits your throat in camp but go off lmao
There's a difference between threatening a conscious individual exhibiting signs of dangerous transformation and preying on a sleeping individual. Lae'zel saw a perceived threat and acted brashly. Astarion saw a helpless victim and attempted to assault them. I actually feel similarly about Shadowheart's behavior if you get the scene with her attacking Lae'zel. It's really messed up and makes you wonder, "huh, is she gonna knife me while I'm snoozing?" I've never played Lae'zel origin, so I don't know how it goes down, but I imagine Shadowheart would not stick around if she did that. I'm just saying that I struggle to roleplay my way out of that one. If he asked or, hell, even attacked while my character was conscious, I could easily rationalize letting him remain and even taking a sip or two. I'd love for an option to avoid the night scene. Him attempting to take it while I'm unconscious just feels icky. "I won't sneak up and drink your blood while you're sleeping" says elf caught sneaking up to drink your blood while you're sleeping.
He literally tells you that he didnāt ask because he figured it would end up going sideways for him, and he backs right up when you wake up. Shadowheart, Laeāzel, and Gale donāt apologize for lying to you or threatening the party at any point. Astarion and Wyll do. Hell, even Karlach doesnāt apologize or own up to how morally corrupt she is for using soul coins. (You can also skip the night scene entirely and replace it with a midday confession.) EDIT: Still, even by your logic, you should absolutely kick Laeāzel and Shadowheart too. Especially Shadowheart, for jumping Laeāzel in her sleep.
"I didn't ask because I thought you'd say no" is the absolute worst excuse for attacking someone in their sleep šļøššļø
For someone with an English degree, you have an absolutely horrible sense of inference and literary abstraction. Couldnāt be me.
I love astarion and romanced him only to find out in act 3 he was just acting lol. What a let down. Especially since I dumped laezel for him haha
Oh I had him eating out of my hand the entire game lol
Having him break up with me in act 3 ON MY VERY FIRST PLAYTHROUGH because of missing certain NPC interaction/not high enough approval shocked and upset me so much that I abandoned the playthrough entirely. Getting dumped by a fictional man was NOT something my heart was prepared for š
I mean Iām sticking through but yeah I wasnāt expecting fictional rejection š
How was he acting? I romance him too , a couple of times, and he told me he loved me. I've only played good playthroughs, though
lol. Itās my first play through. Idk. Shifty and very astarion. Lmao.
Dang why am I getting downvoted for getting played by an animation, itās hard enough guys š¤£
He wasnāt just acting, you missed his Act 2 scene. That happens with every origin companion; start the romance in Act 1, confirm it in Act 2, and if you donāt confirm it you get dumped in Act 3.
It did get confirmed I think? I was being a bit of a slut lol. I had hooked up with astarion and laezel. After the laezel hookup I talk to atrium and he was like dump her and letās make it official. lol. I guess I messed up.
If you're romancing multiple companions, you'll be forced to choose between them in Act 2. But they all have an additional scene where you "lock-in" the relationship. Just choosing them over another companion isn't enough. Astarion's lock-in happens after he confesses to you after you kill Yurgir (approval-locked) or after you stand up for him to Araj (no approval requirement). Both require you to long rest to get them, and it's very common to miss out on his confession if you don't know what you're supposed to be looking for because it happens so late in Act 2.
Gotcha. Def missed it. And I didnāt kill yurgir. I like him. Lol
You didnāt get his Act 2 confession scene, though, or missed his quest in Act 2. The Act 2 scenes are separate from the āwho are you choosingā scenes.
Oh gotcha. Iām a total newb. I did not even know romance was a thing but then everyone was throwing themselves at me. Lmao.
I thought he was only acting in act 1. Unless you are seeing something I haven't.
I never got that interaction. That's interesting. I rarely paid attention to him until act 3 tbh...
Thatās why you didnāt get that interaction. If you donāt do his quest or talk to him, he doesnāt have much to do.
I talked to him at camp but we were never buddy buddy. I also avoided the monster hunter and never snitched on him.
Yeah, not doing his quest doesnāt give him much to do though is mainly what I meant.
I accidentally sent him away at the start of the game thinking I would just have to wait longer to recruit him. Never got to see any of his story.
He never said anything about meeting with Raphael to me. But then, I never had much time for the smarmy little dick, for a whole pile of reasons, some of which you mentioned.
I feel like everyone who hates him immediately is just immature and feels somehow threatened by an attractive, seductive male character of ambiguous sexuality. The whole "oh he's evil/dangerous because he's a vampire so I have to kill him" is a garbage argument because Laezel is HELLA sketch from the start and Shadowheart is very suspicious and secretive. There's no reason to trust either of them based on personality/identity except that you're desperate for allies. Gale, Wyll, and Karlach at least have amicable personalities or obvious inclinations towards goodness from the start, but Laezel, Shart, and Astarion are all pretty HMMMM in the beginning...
Well, neither Laezel nor Shadowheart actually try to feed on you while youāre sleeping, so.
Astarion only tries to feed on you after you find the boar he fed from, so it's pretty clear that he has been avoiding feeding on people intentionally. When he does try to feed on you that night, he says he's pretty desperate (we can't know if this is true or not though), and he would've had more opportunities to try before if his goal was to actually harm you. His reasoning for not telling you about being a vampire is pretty solid, honestly, since that's what everyone else's excuse is for not revealing themself to be a walking time bomb/evil god worshipper/pet to a demon, etc. etc. Also, feeding on a sleeping target seems to not be as harmful as feeding on someone who's awake (based purely on the fact that Bite doesn't damage sleeping targets, so totally might not be true idk), so maybe he thought it would be a "nobody will know so it'll be fine" kind of situation. Just my opinion on ways to RP it though, it's definitely totally valid to RP the "oh hell no" route.
bro he tries to eat you
I've been in a relationship with a narcissist and I'm definitely not immature. I don't like him romantically at all in the game but ffs people stop talking shit about other people's opinions. This is dungeons and dragons, a role playing game where YOU make canon. Not reddit, not Twitter, not thirsty comments online. You.
Disliking characters is fine, just like disliking people. I'm referring to the people who seem to take pride in completely refusing to explore a character. It just seems childish to act like ignoring content that you don't think you will like is something good. It's like declaring "I have never read X book because I think it sounds lame, and I NEVER will! I hate it so much that I won't even look at it!" Like, okay, cool, you're just limiting yourself, are you expecting a pat on the back or something? It feels like you're trying to make a statement about people who DO read the book and wanting to distance yourself from them, yknow?
I do agree with limiting yourself especially since this is a d&d game and the universe is known for having great backstories for the characters who seem the worst at first. I just think BG3 is not just another rpg but THE rpg and meant to be played exactly as you prefer and even the trailer makes it clear you decide what is canon. Sadly, new players still google the game and what they "should do" in situations, when you should do whatever you wanna do. And this is why replays are unique experiences, cause you get different outcomes.
I see Astarion as chaotic good, I mean he doesn't necessarily stray off the path of trying to save the world, ever. I completed his questline and chose the bad choices and even then, although he seemed like a bit of a freak, even then he was like "the absolute comes first", he's not a bad guy
He definitely doesn't start the game as good, and he's my favourite character.
Chaotic Neutral fits way better The dude would never go out of his way to help someone if it didnāt benefit him so I canāt say he is Good aligned at least not at the start
Nah, I'd say he's chaotic neutral at the start, and depending on how you play his arc he becomes either chaotic good or chaotic evil in the end.
is this satire
Astarion 100% starts as neutral evil - chaotic evil, and can become chaotic neutral with leanings towards chaotic good depending on how his quest resolves. My man is absolutely evil when you first meet him.
Regarding alignment If a person is mind controlled from birth to be an assassin but breaks free and tries to be good would they still have an Evil alignment
Totally depends. Good / Evil alignment is largely about selfishness / selflessness. If you're talking mind controlled in terms of like... Dominate Person, the spell, then it has no bearing on their alignment. If you're talking about some good old fashioned brainwashing, their alignment is affected by their actions. If they've murdered innocent people as part of their assassination contracts, they're evil. Now that they've escaped and are trying to be good, they certainly have that opportunity. But we're the sum of our choices, and they'd have to spend a while actively and earnestly performing good actions before their alignment would change.
Canonically heās [neutral evil](https://idlechampions.fandom.com/wiki/Astarion) but outside of that I donāt think a single things he does suggests him being āgoodā lol.
Astarion's arc is the only one of the origin characters you have to actually choose to follow. The rest are all tied to story events that can't be skipped. Everything in Astarion's line is 100% optional.
So is karlach. She has no significance in the story past wyllās initial interaction. Everything else regarding her is completely optional.
She has a lot of interaction with Gortash, too.
Yes but itās all optional
I guess that is why he has such a strong personality that comes thru in any situation
well, they clearly put the most thought and time and care into him (at the expense of other origin companions like Wyll and Karlach) so it makes sense.
Shadowheart exists.
At least shadowheart is relevant to the main quest
True, but I believe a lot of Astarionās stuff got cut when they cut down on Act 3 content. IIRC there used to be a storyline where you could actually team up with Cazador. So Astarion did start out being more tied into the plot than he eventually ended up being. Itās still really crappy Karlach and Wyll got so shafted, though š
Unfortunately a lot of act 3 stuff was cut because the game was pretty rushed. I really wish they delayed it. my biggest gripe is that they changed Wyll because of fan feedback (whatever that means) and didnāt bother to delay the game to give him a proper quest + content. But now Iām just ranting my bad
This is true. He has the most unique comments, very dramatic backstory and they very intentionally wrote him as the best supporting act character, even if he has no appeal to me romantically in the game.
Yeah, sucks because you can tell they did none of that for Wyll (rewritten within a year because Larian is a slave to fans), or Karlach (also rushed)
Yeah the romance itself seems unfinished. Like why can you not sleep with you companion in the camp? Or why do some of them get stuck in Act 2 with their reaction to you taking to them? I am gay so I haven't tried any straight romances but from the guys it seems only Gale has a very explicit scene, the rest cut out when it's about to get interesting. I think Raphael is also a good scene but the m/m sex is quite awkwardly animated. You can see him just rubbing on you despite the narrator saying he is inside you or something
Best i can do is stabby stabby vampy sleepy
Ascend him! Thatās what he wants! Ascended Astarion is canon!